Bits Bucket for September 2, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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So, what are the Greek headlines?
Greek government cuts spending and it shockingly, puts it into a deep recession with manufacturing sector activitiy declining 24 months in a row. This loweres tax receipts.
Seeing the shrinking economy, soaring unemployment above 16.6%, Greek government slows implimentation of spending cuts.
Lower tax receipts and higher spending than planned, means Greece can’t hit its deficit targets.
I’m shocked I tell you, shocked. You telling me you can’t fix trade imbalances by cutting government spending?
Greece couldn’t get enough people to agree to aceept less than they are owed on their debt, based on the old deficit targets, and now are having an even harder time since the deficit reduction is not going as planned.
Some countries wanted collateral, but that was blocked because all the collateral is already needed to secure the current bond holders. No robbing Peter to pay Paul.
So, Greece and ECB are back to negotiating on yet more spending cuts and tax increases, that I can only assume will still fail to fix the underlying problems of trade imbalances.
Kick the can, kick the can… Deal with symptoms rather than root causes.
Just wait until austarity comes to the USA.
Greek 2-year bonds just hit 46.84%. Yikes.
This is probably the time to buy if you are a gambler with deep pockets and the time and energy to pursue it. Either those bonds are going to go into default or they will get bailed out — heads or bails.
After you….
I’m tempted, actually. Dunno how/where to buy them, though.
But if you buy during the panic, and sell during one of the intermittent periods of calm, you might well make a nice return.
It’s definitely more of a gamble than an investment, but one where timing can affect your odds. With a small enough investment, it might have entertainment value.
I will vicariously entertain myself by watching your “investment” go up in smoke, then.
“But if you buy during the panic, and sell during one of the intermittent periods of calm, you might well make a nice return.”
My fantasy gamble would be to buy at the height of panic, then sell on the news of the inevitable bailout. If I had lots of chips to gamble with, I would be willing to bet that Greek is ‘too-big-to-fail.’ Since my money is all hidden under the mattress, this ain’t happening…
The big boys will not bet blind. They’ll talk to the central bankers, use all their social connections to get a picture of what will happen - and then make a best guess bet. If I were to try it, it would be playing poker without knowing my cards.
“Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope.”—Freewheelin’ Franklin
Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers…
I haven’t heard about them in years. Is that comic still published or was it just a ’70’s thing?
I *think* the last comic was in the 1980s and *maybe* one commemorative issue in the 1990s.
“Deal with symptoms rather than root causes.”
Exactly. It’s far easier to kick the can.
I have yet to read an editorial that explains how the USA gets out of this mess.
“Just wait until austarity comes to the USA.”
The winds of austerity are blowing through Congress. I suspect this has a lot to do with a lack of hiring in August. I expect it will have a lot to do with the incipient recession becoming full fledged in the next 6 months or so. Will we take the whole world into recession with us this time?
Realtors Are Liars®
Wow.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-sue-big-banks-over-mortgage-securities-report-031719348.html
“Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lost more than $30 billion, due partly to their purchases of mortgage-backed securities, when the housing bubble burst in late 2008.”
Do dates, timelines, mean anything anymore? Are all these people writing these yahoo articles younger than 25?
The bubble didn’t really pop, it deflated over about a year. If I had to fix a date to the “pop,” I would choose August of 2007, when the banks went through their first subprime crisis and there were whispers that Alt-A was in trouble. Bernanke & Co. smoothed things over by throwing liquidity out the discount window. The late 2008 pop was the realization of a solvency crisis.
The Govt. should not reward people and companies that made mistakes. By bailing them out, they are sending a wrong signal and same mistakes will keep happening. Those who bought insanely thinking RE was the way to riches should be punished and not bailed out. Same is for banks and banksters should be brought to justice who made bad loans and CDOs/MBS etc.
It is high time the issues be fixed before greedy people keep doing the same mistakes and take the country’s progress hostage.
The Govt. should not reward people and companies that made mistakes. By bailing them out, they are sending a wrong signal and same mistakes will keep happening.
Government is elected by the electorate, and the American electorate are sheep and lemmings. In 2008, stupid people voted for two corporatist, pro-bailout candidates who made it clear they would not allow bankers (though not necessarily FBs) to suffer the consequences of their own greed and recklessness. In other words, the electorate - the 95% who voted for Obama and McCain, anyway - gave their explict sanction for taxpayers being put on the hook for Wall Street’s gambling debts. These docile, mindless dupes sent the wrong signal, and the Federal Reserve-Wall Street looting syndicate got a green light to launch a new speculative binge, secure in the knowledge the sheeple could easily be manipulated to vote for the status quo regardless of what it cost them.
Yup. You lose your right to complain if you continue to vote for the status quo. Vote 3rd party or at least for candidates with voting records that are consistent with the words that come out of their mouth. At this point, just about anything is better than the status quo.
This is one of my arguments for eliminating the corporate income tax…. you would get NO tax breaks or refunds or get any taxloss carry fowards or backwards if you paid no taxes to begin with
So companies who lose money will have to sink or swim and would not be bought and sold for their tax advantages,
————-
The Govt. should not reward people and companies that made mistakes. By bailing them out, they are sending a wrong signal and same mistakes will keep happening
Makes sense.
I would choose August of 2007,
Yep! a month later I found HBB thanks to a lucky link elsewhere. Up until then I had NO idea what was going on.
Good Friday… This was the hope and change I was looking for!
#1: Fannie/Freddie and DOJ to sue big banks for fraud in packaging mortgages.
#2: Stop AT&T & T-Mobil merger.
#3: Wikileaks dumps 65 gigabytes of uncensored “Cablegate” data which may include Bank of America secret files.
#4: SEC is opening investigation into High Freq. Trading stock market manipulation. This includes turning over computer code.
If Obama admin keeps this up the Tea Party radicals will loose some support because most Americans wanted all this stuff done 3 years ago.
*yawn*
Wake me up when 1500 bank executives are in jail (like in the aftermath the S&L crisis)
I’d like to see clawbacks followed by jail time.
Let’s keep Gitmo open and send the wall street looters there.
Your innocense is touching, BlueStar. Here’s how this will play out.
1. DoJ will quickly settle with TBTF banks, assessing token fines and no criminal penalties while assuring no future prosecutions or punitive actions. (Goldman Sachs, #2 Obama campaign contributer in 2008, and other banks will duly show gratitude to Republicrats).
2. Yawn.
3. Yawn.
4. “Investigation” will be standard SEC pretend-investigate followed by usual “settlement” that allows HFT trading, quote stuffing, and front-running the market - practices that would be blatantly illegal if we weren’t a banana republic - to continue, with immunity from future prosecution.
“Most Americans” are mindless dupes. They may “want this stuff done” but then will turn around and vote for the status quo, as they did in 2008.
I think the market is taking this a bit more seriously based on the bank stock prices.
Hey what if Obama decides he doesn’t think
he can win re-election (looks like a good bet right now) and he goes rouge? ie. do as much damage as possible while he still has some power? What does he have to loose?
“… and he goes rouge”
LOL. Those on the right would say he’s always been “rouge.”
rouge: from French: red, from Latin rubeus
He must know that if he’s going to call Congress into the chamber and pre-empt football to make a speech, it had better be something good. If it’s the usual standard stuff, he’ll be laughed out of the Presidency.
You can’t “go rogue” on a lawsuit of this magnitude. These things cannot be finished (other than by caving) in the time he has left before the next election. The law firms that represent the banks are masters at stall tactics.
There is the slightest possiblility that they could get far enough along that it would be embarrassing for a new person to dismiss them, but that wouldn’t stop this crop of republican candidates. No, if you want this stuff to be pushed forward, you have to keep Obama’s appointees in charge of the executive branch. Sorry for those who still want to believe that it makes no difference at all which party holds the executive branch. It does. It doesn’t matter as much as it should, but it does matter.
psstsupremecourtpsst
Yeah, that too. But I’ve ranted about that one over and over and people don’t seem to care so I didn’t add it this time. There are other reasons.
And I get that the differences are incremental and not always visible to the outsiders - like science reports that a political appointee decides shouldn’t be released because some corporation thinks it might hurt their chances to get some giant project (and its polution discharge) approved. But this stuff matters. I actually responded to a bananas posting below on this topic. Your additions would be appreciated.
“What does he have to loose?”
Not much. No more arrows in the quiver.
Obama going rogue on the banksters: That would be change I could believe in!
I will probably vote for him again anyway, given my lack of enthusiasm for any viable challenger, but I would feel much better about the choice if he morphed into a latter-day Teddy Roosevelt trust buster over the next 12 months or so…
Bank stocks (and netflix) are going to get hammered today…
———————–
U.S. to sue big banks for billions over mortgage crisis
The Telegraph | 02 Sep 2011
Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs are among those expected to be named in the lawsuit.
The agency that oversees U.S. mortgage markets is preparing to file suit against more than a dozen big banks, accusing them of misrepresenting the quality of mortgages they packaged and sold during the housing bubble, The New York Times reported on Thursday.
The Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is expected to file suit against Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank, among other banks, the Times reported, citing three unidentified individuals briefed on the matter.
The suits stem from subpoenas the finance agency issued to banks last year. They could be filed as early as Friday, the Times said, but if not filed Friday it said the suits would come on Tuesday.
The government will argue the banks, which pooled the mortgages and sold them as securities to investors, failed to perform due diligence required under securities law and missed evidence that borrowers’ incomes were falsified or inflated, the Times reported.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lost more than $30 billion, due partly to their purchases of mortgage-backed securities, when the housing bubble burst in late 2008. Those losses were covered mostly with taxpayers’ money.
http://www.kitco.com/market/
Gold, conversely, is soaring.
And why did this take four f&%#ing years to do???
The rampant fraud in the loans was an open secret back in 2005.
You were very right, damn you!!
This morning on CNBC they had a Republican congressman batteling with a union boss.
Congressman: Why would raising taxes on the job creators make them create more jobs?
Union boss: Turn it around. We’ve cut taxes on the rich and they have not created jobs. Why would more tax cuts for the rich result in more job creation?
White elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Why would you hire an American for $15+ an hour when you can hire someone in Mexico for $5 an hour of Chindia for $3 an hour?
In essence; if there is no profit in hiring the American worker, then the discussion of taxes is meaningless. First make it profitible to hire the American and then we have a pie to fight over.
Too late. The sheeple have been brainwashed that taxes IS the reason that the American workers are overpaid. If we only could get rid of pesky regulations and taxes, suddenly companies would hire again.
faith based economics = trickle down economics
Look at how fabulous the emperor looks in his new clothes.
Witness the miracle of the financial industry (why is something that produces nothing called an industry anyway). Unregulated and it grew like wildfire! Set up for very low tax rates. Pays big bucks too!
Lemonade stands, not so much.
There’s more than one elephant in that room. How about the housing costs that comes with the American worker? McMansion housed cubicle drones can’t compete with barracks housed toilers.
Normalized housing costs would make stagnant wages a heckuva lot more palatable, not to mention make us more competitive. But nooooo.
I don’t think normal housing prices will help. Companies will not be satisfied until they can pay a college-degreed American worker $25K a year as they do in India. You can’t support even normal housing on that, and you certainly can’t support college loans on that.
Public Option health care may help.
I thought we were getting mandatory sucky insurance premiums rather than Public Healthcare. Did I miss something?
Sorry. Public Option Healthcare may have have helped, if we had it.
“when you can hire someone in Mexico for $5 an hour”
That would be considered a handsome wage in Mexico for a laborer, it’s what skilled entry level College grads are paid.
Minimum wage in Mexico is about $4 A DAY!
Did you know that Mexico counts 6 hours a week as an ‘employed’ person. It’s make their employment numbers hard to compare.
Better than the USA where ANY meaningful work in exchange for money is employed.
Why can’t underemployed people like me simply “click in” to register. It’s only been seven years for me, but I know that for others it has been far longer.
I’m not going to watch Obama’s jobs speech next week. Just that he moved the day of his speech is shows me that he’s capitulated. I suspect his jobs plan will follow suit — look for a series on HAMP-like POS chip-around-the-edges “plan.” It won’t matter what it is, the Senate will just filibuster it anyway.
Oxy, you were a veritable fountain of optimism not so long ago about what this administration could accomplish. Now you seem to be a barometer for the political vacuum in DC. No one seems to have any love-potion-number-9. Bernanke might be an idiot, but he’s not stupid; he could do more but it wouldn’t help. The President will make a speech, sometime, if nobody minds. Congress up to their neck in quicksand. Is the Euro falling apart finally now or what? Is it just me, or is this eerie calm feeling like the second wall of the hurricane is just hanging out there?
And the sooner the “second wall of the hurricane” hits, the sooner we can all get on with our lives. The blog is fun and I like you guys and all but I’d like to get on with $hit.
Amen to that.
“…but I’d like to get on with $hit.”
Who’d've thunk the underlying unvarnished housing market policy story would stay this fascinating for this long? I’m beginning to wonder whether it is always this way, but I previously failed to pay attention?
“Who’d’ve thunk the underlying unvarnished housing market policy story would stay this fascinating for this long?”
It’s hard to believe I’ve been dialing up this URL since 2004. Seven years! I’m 2/3s through my lost decade.
What we all failed to realize were the attempts made by our government to hold the line on price drops. Otherwise, this might have ended years ago.
I’d like to get on with $hit.
Well you’re in luck if everything collapses that’s exactly what you’ll have.
If collapse is what it takes to end price fixing of EVERYTHING then I’ll take my chances.
Starting over would be way ahead of where we are now.
Big things always seem to happen in the fall, just ask Karl Rove.
It won’t matter what it is, the Senate will just filibuster it anyway.
Well then - obama needs to learn that legislation like obama care the the $1 Trillion stimulus (both passed behind closed doors and without repiblican support) is not the way to get what he wants passed.
He might actually have to build some support.
Look up how Reagan got things done…
Yes Reagan got things done by raising taxes…… SEVEN times.
Darn those facts.
…and creating a (then) record budget deficit.
Reagan could compromise with Dems, because Dems would compromise with him.
You can’t compromise with people who have stated that their #1 goal is making you a 1-term president. Reps are not interested in the “good of the country”. Their #1 goal, as stated by them repeatedly, is ensuring that Obama is a 1-term president.
And, why do they want him out of the way? So they can do more of the exact same things that put us in the $40T debt hole in the first place.
“And, why do they want him out of the way? So they can do more of the exact same things that put us in the $40T debt hole in the first place.”
Just doing God’s work.
“He might actually have to build some support.”
Exactly what part of “40 votes against = filibuster” do you not understand?
Now, if by “building support” you mean cave into Republicans ideals of cut taxes on the rich while “broadening” the taxes to the poor, privatize everything so that only rich have access, throw grandma’s SS to the Wall Street wolves just for the fees, institute Vouchercare and death panels so that the sick cannot afford even morphine, then I think Obama may as well quit now and let the Republicans take over entirely. Then, 4-5 years from now, when we can no longer pretend that we’re not a third-world country, maybe we’ll get somewhere.
cave into … throw grandma to the wolves … quit now …. we’ll get somewhere.
There must be a plan in there somewhere that can win popular support.
I can sweeten the deal by cutting environemental regulations… then we can really be Foxconn City.
Exactly what part of “40 votes against = filibuster” do you not understand?
You do realize that Reagan and both Bush presidents NEVER had filibuster proof senate.
Yet - they managed to some things done.
You do realize that obama (the one) did have 60 democrats in the senate for 2 years? Along with a HUGE majority in the house.
What did he get done?
‘You do realize that Reagan and both Bush presidents NEVER had filibuster proof senate.”
And you do realize that Dems in the Senate had some respect for the majority party and voted for cloture… right up until 2006. It was only in the past two years that the Senate went rogue.
When Obama had 60 votes* in the Senate, about 5 of those Dems were from conservative states and threatened not to vote cloture. You should thank your lucky stars that Blanche Lincoln was bought off by industry and that Joe Lieberman turned traitor, or Obamacare would have been much much worse (from R’s point of view).
————–
* I see this talking point in almost every comment on every politics story on every news website.
A stimulus package that, while far from ideal, prevented the recession from being even worse than it was and slowed down the loss of income by state and local governments so that, had they been wiser, they could have used the time to figure out how to adjust to the new normal. The fact that the idiots didn’t do it, isn’t the president’s fault.
A health care bill that, while far from ideal, will end up with 90% of Americans having health insurance in a few years.
A financial reform bill that, while far from ideal, has some hope of pulling back the worst abuses in the field of consumer credit (like credit cards charging interest on balances that were paid off over a month ago).
Don’t ask, don’t tell gone from miltary so we are no longer discharging, for example, soldiers who have received years of training in languages needed to protect the US from people who would like to blow us up just because that soldier has a boyfriend or girlfriend instead of a girlfriend or boyfriend.
EPA is actually trying to protect the environment.
Justice Department Civil Rights Division no longer wasting money looking into voting by non-citizens that never happened.
The Ed department is considering some needed adjustments to the overly stringent parts of No Child Left Behind.
Etc.
And you do realize that Dems in the Senate had some respect for the majority party and voted for cloture… right up until 2006. It was only in the past two years that the Senate went rogue.
Go Google the Civil Rights Bills of the 1950s and the 1960s.
They were filibustered to death by DEMOCRATS
Over and over…
Sorry sweetie, the ideals behind the Democrat and Republican labels switched somewhere between the two Roosevelts. The racists in the South were too stupid to swtich their party affiliation.
God help us if we are going to have to crawl at the pace of civil rights reform to get out of the current mess.
“Sorry sweetie, the ideals behind the Democrat and Republican labels switched somewhere between the two Roosevelts. The racists in the South were too stupid to swtich their party affiliation.”
Wow…It is just so easy for progressives and other fringe nuts to twist facts to suit their own warped sense of reality. Progressives are never wrong, they will make it seem right by changing words and rewriting history. I am not surprised, just amazed at how easy that jive flows out of the mouths and off the fingers of progressives.
“They were filibustered to death by DEMOCRATS”
Southern Democrats who switched parties with Nixon’s Southern strategy.
But you already knew that.
“Progressives are never wrong, they will make it seem right by changing words and rewriting history.”
You really do live in an alternate universe. This is the Republican/Karl Rove playbook.
“What did he get done?”
It seems kind of dumb to claim Obama accomplished nothing in his first term, given that we seemed to be on the road to a replay of the 1930s, but have stopped short of going all the way down that path. You can’t replay history to figure out how things would have turned out if some Tea Party maroon had been in charge over the past four years, so this discussion is somewhat moot…
Then, 4-5 years from now, when we can no longer pretend that we’re not a third-world country, maybe we’ll get somewhere.
By that point 2/3 (as opposed to the current half) of the workforce will be earning less than $500 a week and 100m Americans will be on foodstamps.
The R’s have to destroy the country to save it.
Remember, food stamps will have to be cut to
decrease the deficitcut taxes on the wealthy.comment deleted by author.
You Lie!!
Seriously, The Republicans actually did pack the AHCA with gifts for the health care and drug industry. After they did all this horse trading they then turned around and started screaming ‘death panels’ and refused to vote on their own parts of the bill. All part of a political plan to make Obama a one-term-president. This is a class war and the politicians (Republicans & Democrats) are both guilty of pushing it.
When I have curiosity or want information on health care reform, and the shenanigans by both worthless parties, I default back to Wendell Potter (consumer advocate/former Cigna VP)
“Deadly Spin” is a great book, btw.
http://wendellpotter.com/
P.S. We had to let our Kaiser policy go, yet this non-profit’s CEO makes $8M (plus bonuses, no doubt) a year. That’s insane.
I second the motion on Potter’s book. It’s short, to the point, and Potter doesn’t mince any words re: the uselessness of the American health insurance industry.
Thanks for the heads up Awaiting…I just ordered it…
He might actually have to build some support ??
Many on the right despise the man…I don’t think they will ever support anything he may propose…
Precisely. If Obama supports it, they will be against it.
Allow me to summarize the teleprompter-in-chief’s speech: blah blah blah we inherited a mess blah blah blah we will make new investments in sustainable energy [we will subsidize the eco-scams of my biggest contributors] blah blah blah jobs will appear as if out of the ground by late 2012 after I am re-elected blah blah blah.
How many of you hope ‘n change lemmings of 2008 are still True Believers?
HOPE I get a job cus all I got in my pocket is CHANGE. The new reality.
The environment at my current job has suddenly changed (a real shame as I liked the place) so I’m looking for something new.
What’s really weird (at least for me) is that I’m getting call backs for jobs that I’m applying for. The ususal experience is that the resumes disappear into the online black hole and I never hear from them.
Could it be now because I currently have a job and do not have the scarlet U (unemployed) branded on me?
In Colorado
Yep, those who are working, are getting the call backs right now. Unemploymed folks are slackers, evidently. Good for you, btw. I just met w/ a headhunter.
I’ve been a 1099 working for a r e developer and a bank. It doesn’t count as employed. Oh chit!
“The environment at my current job has suddenly changed”
What’s the cause of the big change, InColo?
“Could it be now because I currently have a job and do not have the scarlet U (unemployed) branded on me?”
Could well be—that definitely has an effect.
Well, I am still on many recruiters’ list from my last job search in Spring this year I have noticed a sudden drop in calls/emails from recruiters starting in August. Not sure what happened suddenly?
butters
No freakin’ jobs.
Example: BOA split 10 really good positions into 20 in their foreclosure dept, and saved themselves a bundle in wages and bennies. Just pisses me off.
I use to be on Accountemps roster, and haven’t heard from them in a long time.
“Not sure what happened suddenly?”
Debt ceiling debate creating uncertainty? Or did it instead create certainty about how badly disfunctional our Congress is? Did it create certainty that the Republicans will trash the economy until after the 2012 elections?
lemmings of 2008 are still True Believers ??
I am….I “Truly Believe” that the Lemmings are the ones that proposed that Sarah Palin was fit for the Presidency…
Sarah Palin was and is a joke. John McCain would’ve been a more demented and unpredictable 3rd Bush term. Anyone who voted for them, or Obama, voted for the status quo. The Ron Paul supporters weren’t just voting for him, they were voting against the Republicrat puppet show.
Bush Jr was a bad joke too. Did that stop him from being president?
You see where that got us?
Exactly ecofeco….
Sammy, as far as Ron Paul, I sent him money on a number of occasions although I think he leans to far right socially for me…I did not vote for him…I voted for Obama trying to make sure that Palin did not get in…
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=193410
US to sue banks over toxic waste mortgages. Expect a slap-on-the-wrist settlement that absolves the banks of all further civil or criminal penalties while transferring all liabilities to taxpayers (thanks a million, hope ‘n change lemmings). What would really be poetic justice would be for banks to turn around and sue Bawney Fwank and his Capitol Hill accomplices for forcing banks to send to non-credit-worthy “disadvantaged” mortgage-seekers in the name of community revitalization.
Let Barney Frank pay all the damages for 30 years of community reinvestment, and let those banks pay damages for 10 years of outright cheating. I’ll take that exchange any day.
This CRA business has been shot full of holes so many times and yet it comes back again and again. CRA did not mandate that banks lend to non-creditworthy customers. It mandated that they lend in places they take deposits. That where you live would not limit your ability to get a loan. If you make X dollars and put 20% down you can borrow Y dollars. If you make 2x and put 20% down you can borrow 2Y dollars. No different than if you live in a good neighborhood and make 2X dollars. The proof is evident, CRA bank loans did not cause megamansion overbuilding in California, Florida, Nevada etc.
Securitization is what caused this mess, the ability of banks to make profits and sell all the risk to retirement funds, pensions, conservative investors, foreign gov and of course our own gov. CEO’s make huge bank on short term gains and get rid of all the risk.
I’m sure when you say non-creditworthy you mean minority.
We’re all non credit worthy now.
Non-creditworthy means anybody who has demonstrated they are not a good credit risk.
“This CRA business has been shot full of holes so many times and yet it comes back again and again.”
It doesn’t matter how many times you shoot these arguments full of holes. The conservative talking points will continue to be shouted from the rooftops. Truth does not trump belief.
Today’s Houses
House 1: Pending short sale
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1008-Paul-Dr-Rockville-MD-20851/37102944_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
1942 4/2 on 0.13 acre. Looks pretty nice, but no pix of the inside. pricing shows the housing bubble that occured in the DC area.
Oct 2000: Sold $148K
Aug 2005: Sold $400K
Jul 2010: listed $210K
Aug 2011: Pending $214K
I suspect the only reason the house wasn’t snapped up in 2010 is that the bank didn’t want to approve the short sale. Once the short sale when through, it’s pending. The disadvantage is that it’s very close to railroad tracks.
————–
House 2: oil-city-plan
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/360-Heidlersburg-Rd-Biglerville-PA-17307/84588756_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
3/1 on half-care in Biglersville PA: serious apple country just north of Gettysburg. I really like the look of the place. Brick exterior, perfect size for mini-homesteading. Nearby, the satellite shows a large complex of buildings on “Musselman Lane” — maybe an applesauce processing plant? [do they outsource applesauce to China?] Property is priced wee bit high, especially because the kitchen is begging for about $25K.
#2 is clean with straight lines. Timeless architecture. The price however is grossly inflated.
Good lord, you’re right. I was so enchanted by the house I forgot to list the pricing info:
Dec 2004: Sold $137,000
May 2011: Listed $154,900
2010: Tax assess $38K
Listed for MORE than the bubble price.
Heloc’ed up the wazoo?
I’d lowball the sucker for about $85K.
A lowball offer would be somewhere south of $38K.
There it is. 40k. maybe 50k.
“maybe an applesauce processing plant”
apple butter.
Oxide, do you have family in that area of PA? ‘Cuz if you don’t, and since you haven’t lived there most of your life, you’re not going to have much of a social life. Southern Pennsylvania was BY FAR the coldest place we ever lived, and not just meteorologically (sp?).
The closer the young adults (including married couples) can live to their parents the better. Basement apartments or small houses just behind the parents’ house (on the same lot) are considered ideal.
Next choice would be the adjacent house or at least one on the same block.
One of the pitfalls of Oil City Plan — no social life. That’s why it’s better to live within an hour or so of a larger city. You don’t have to commute, but you’re not isolated.
I’ve lived in all four corners of PA as somebody considered to have come from NJ. Hospitality and friendship and their opposites can be found everywhere. I found the same true in NY and Louisianna, Germany even. I think what you get reflects what you offer.
How bout when 2 different spots treat you completely 2 different ways?
maybe an applesauce processing plant? [do they outsource applesauce to China?]
Not sure about applesauce, but have you checked your apple juice lately?
OOh OOh mine is from concentrate made in China…..
but have you checked your apple juice lately
New jobs report says ZERO new jobs added. Inside the numbers the private sector was flat while the Government jobs dropped by 71k. If this is just the start of cutting government jobs and is also the one of the goals of the Republican party what will happen when they take over the Senate and White House? Kill off the EPA, Dept. Of Education, HUD and gut the Dept of Heath and USDA. Can we project adding 3-4 million new unemployed people to the numbers by the end 2013.
I’d be delighted to see most of these bloated, inefficient gov’t bureaucracies cut to the bone or (with the exception of the EPA) eliminated entirely.
No, I don’t think you would.
Do government workers, with healthcare and pension, have it better than most private sector workers? I think so… if we can actually pay the pensions… which I doubt.
However, rather than thinking we should slash pay and benefits of government workers, and have them join us in the race to the bottom, I’d prefer to see the private sector turn around.
I’d prefer to see the private sector turn around ?
As would I but everywhere you turn the private sector is under attack either by cost, regulation or competition and that’s the rub vs. government workers…For the most part, they face none of those obstacles…
coughRepublicanscough
Sorry, actual number was down 17k for current report and the 71k was the July report revisions. Still millions of jobs left to cut so I can still see the 2-3 million public sector jobs losses are possible if the Tea Party gets full control. Even the DOD will cut a few 100k as this grinds out over the next 3-4 years.
I still think some where down the road the military will step in and take over Government. It’s the only example history offers us when nation states fail. It won’t be different this time.
It’s possible that could happen (military coup). And since most Americans seem to have a favorable view of the military they would probably support it.
I wonder if the draft (or mandatory conscription for all males) would return as a result?
That would make our descent into banana republic complete.
Hope and change
Yes we can
Four more years!!!!
I am happy to see public union goons finally meeting economic reality.
Not that their closed shop/forced union millions in dues that goes 99% to liberal democrats has anything to do with it.
That 71,000 public union goons dues that won’t be funding liberals anymore. What is not to like?
I received a somewhat funny email a few days ago. It had some pictures but the gist of it was:
During Reagan’s terms we had Bob Hope and Johnny Cash
Now we are in Obama’s term and Hope and Cash are gone.
Since it was Ronnie who started the deficit spending death spiral I find it amusing that you worship him.
Such penetrating commentary!
Do you dispute that the big deficit spending began under St. Ron’s watch?
What a telling comment on how dumbed-down our population is, that morons still forward trite chain e-mails for the benefit of spammers who harvest the e-mail addresses.
What is not to like?
They’ll be on unemployment, food stamps, section 8 and medicare (since there are no private sector jobs for them to transition into).
They won’t be making payments on their mortgages and defaulting on other loans.
The “multiplier effect” of their lost wages will affect the private sector.
Etc.
Then why not put all the unemployed people on the government payroll immediately? That would eliminate us having to pay for foodstanps and other freebies.
No one on this board is advocating that the government provide jobs to everyone. Nice strawman though.
Do you dispute what I said above? I don’t think you can, which is why you whipped out your strawman.
I was looking for a polite way to say I didn’t agree that it was worth keeping extra peeps on our payroll for $50K to avoid giving them temporary benefits of $10K (or whatever), which seemed to be what you were suggesting.
You hate unions because they support Democrats. Do you really expect unions to support Republicans that hate them and want to kill them?
Unions are people too!
“That 71,000 public union goons dues that won’t be funding liberals anymore. What is not to like?”
The true plan of the Republican governors is revealed. It has nothing to do with balancing the budget and everything to do with emasculating their political opponents.
So far all the govt job reductions have been at the state and local levels. The federal civilian workforce continues to grow, albeit at a slower rate than before.
PRIVATE federal contractor employees outnumber regular federal employees.
So what you’re really saying is that “privatization” doesn’t work and that “business” really isn’t more efficient after all.
Red, White and Blue Chips Archives
Sept. 1, 2011, 9:29 a.m. EDT
Are we there yet? Consumers still don’t see bottom
The vast majority of us say the economy still has a ways to go before hitting bottom. So finds a survey by Hart Research for CitiBank. Citi’s Michelle Peluso tracks the findings with Alisa Parenti in Red, White and Blue Chips.
QE sure has helped us. My wife got more hours at the supermarket this week! 20,000 price changes, to the upside, of course. And also wife’s foreclosure has been postponed from Aug 30 to October! Hasn’t paid since April 2010.
There is talk about the banks going judicial in this state due to judges stopping the foreclosure mill over things like due process (ie robo-signing). Some 26,000 hang in the balance; and banks are leaning towards going judicial, according to the Oregonian that Ben posted in the NW thread the other day
Interesting thing about judicial foreclosures in OR. If person who gets foreclosed upon can match the auction price within 90 days of foreclosure sale; it it theirs! Haircut, anyone?? Who is gonna want to shell out market prices for a home knowing that the ex-owner can take it back for the same price they pay; when they thought they were getting a bargain; then legally they have to offer it up to the ex-owner for the same $$.
Wife is gonna request judicial….
There has to be more to it. Do you research and hire an attorney…
The banks buy the foreclosure at the price owed to them, then they sell it 90 days later.
20,000 price changes, to the upside, of course.
Where are those deflationary forces when you need them?
The deflation comes when no one buys the items until they are put on sale.
If there happens to be competition at the auction, the bank’s agent will almost always bid up the price to the amount of the mortgage balance owed.
As an example, who would want to raise the bank’s $300K bid (the current mortgage balance) on a house now worth maybe $200K?
Judicial foreclosure changes the sale to a sheriff’s sale rather than an auction at the courthouse steps. But it sure seems strange to me that a foreclosed upon person can rebuy his/her lost home for the amount it sold for at the sheriff’s sale. Smells like principal reduction. But I know not much regarding judicial/non-judicial or its implications regarding my wife’s home. She is just trying to buy time riding on the coattails of the bank’s handling of its legal trouble regarding robosigning.
Currently wife’s home is listed among the 600 others in Deschutes county non-judicial trustee’s sale list, that Recontrust is auctioning off for Bank of America. A minimum bid has never been set for her home; lately the minimum bids show up about a few days before the sale day. They ARE actually selling them after quite a long robo hiatus(which is a change, something about the result of the recent 8.5 billion dollar settlement; processing the deadbeats more quickly).
Wife’s asked for the note could have prompted the rescheduling of her sale, who knows. we sure do like the “free rent” after pouring 160k in real money into this place. Most of these trustee’s sales are going back to the lender, a minimum bid is set by Bofa (usually the mortgage amount), and only the odd property is going to a third party at these auctions. saw one that could have been a good deal(mom is shopping for an investment house to rent to us ultimately); it sold for 1 dollar above the minimum bid. so keeping a close eye on these minimum bids could behoove a seasoned auction buyer. Almost all are going back to the bank, but at least they are going; moving out of the shadows ever so slowly.
Requested note came from bank of america, saying that the lender was American Brokers Conduit. We assume the lender has since changed but don’t know if my wife is legally allowed to know who the current lender is or the note’s history as it travelled from ABC to CW to BofA.
BofA may not owe her any more information regarding what happened to the original lender, or telling her about the sordid history of the note and its allonges as it bounced around; although she is asking for it. Under the pretense of deciding whether or not to dispute the non-judicial trustee’s sale and asking instead for a judicial hearing. Don’t know if one can even do such a thing, but the newspaper is suggesting that banks are considering going judicial in many cases here in OR
We think that Countrywide became the lender when it bought ABConduit one month after origination of loan. Maybe it just became the servicer, though? Not sure what the bank needs to divulge to the borrower under RESPA regarding the history of the note.
Admittingly, my wife is naive as can be regarding finance, I am also still far from understanding the workings of the loan making industry or the tax code for that matter. It turns out so many other peeps, including my father, who we thought knew all things financial, being somewhat knowlegable and prudent regarding things like taxes and investing. As a federal employee, he moved to Oregon to avoid both state and federal taxes on his pension. Oregon at one point cut him a check retroactively for 10k when it turned out that his federal pension is also exempt from state taxes here.
Also he talked about things like depreciation, and re-capturing said depreciation upon sale of a home, etc, etc. So we thought he knew his stuff and with his blessing my wife bought this home. Sweet appraisal gave her 60k in “instant equity”, which we bought hook, line and sinker as being legit. Greed must have turned us blind, as we had purchased a unit here in 2005 for 200k; and in 2007 bought a second one for 400k. Boy did we feel both rich and smart, and my wife barely even graduated high school nevermind high finance!
Turns out dad did not know about securitization or the fact that underwriters were writing risky loans and then betting against them. He was thinking that the bank that originated the loan also carried it and its risk. he was more familiar with the antiquated models of underwriting that he dealt with, as in the bank will only loan you money if you can prove you don’t need it. He did think it a bit strange that a loan was made to my wife at 60x income.)Bank of America also bought Countrywide. but the note they sent only says that her lender is American Broker’s Conduit.
So she is asking the bank for more information regarding the note; the servicing changes and the changes regarding who the lender is now. We assume that the bank does not need to give her this information, but obviously some trouble is afoot for BofA in Oregon if they are considering going the judicial route on some 26,000 pending.
So does anyone know if the borrower has a right to know who the CURRENT lender is. The note my wife requested was indeed a copy of the original note, but the lender, American Broker’s Conduit (one of the last lenders doing no-doc loans) is now non existent; so wife would like to know if she has the right to know what has happened to the note.
I suppose this issue, among others, is fodder for potential lawsuits!
Quick - let’s do another $1 Trillion stimulus!
And more QE!
And have Freedie and Fannie buy every toxic loan out there.
Hope and change don’t come cheap…
————————-
Employers Add Zero Net Jobs in August, Unemployment Rate Unchanged at 9.1 Percent
Fox News.com - September 2, 2011
A dismal labor report Friday showed the economy added zero net workers in August, intensifying pressure on President Obama to unveil a major jobs initiative during his speech to Congress next week.
The Labor Department report, which showed the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1 percent, feeds into concerns that the economy could be at risk of another recession. It was the weakest jobs report since September 2010.
Republican leaders swiftly cited the report as renewed evidence that the Obama administration must change course.
“Private-sector job growth continues to be undermined by the triple threat of higher taxes, more failed ’stimulus’ spending, and excessive federal regulations,” House Speaker John Boehner said.
And more QE!
What’s the matter banana boy? You don’t like the way the private sector (its owned by the banks after all) Federal Reserve operates?
Quick - let’s do another $1 Trillion stimulus!
And more QE!
And have Freedie and Fannie buy every toxic loan out there.
Hope and change don’t come cheap boys…
————————-
Employers Add Zero Net Jobs in August, Unemployment Rate Unchanged at 9.1 Percent
Fox News.com - September 2, 2011
A dismal labor report Friday showed the economy added zero net workers in August, intensifying pressure on President Obama to unveil a major jobs initiative during his speech to Congress next week.
The Labor Department report, which showed the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1 percent, feeds into concerns that the economy could be at risk of another recession. It was the weakest jobs report since September 2010.
Republican leaders swiftly cited the report as renewed evidence that the Obama administration must change course.
“Private-sector job growth continues to be undermined by the triple threat of higher taxes, more failed ’stimulus’ spending, and excessive federal regulations,” House Speaker John Boehner said.
But poor people don’t create jobs!
Oh wait, apparently neither do rich people.
” “Private-sector job growth continues to be undermined by the triple threat of higher taxes, more failed ’stimulus’ spending, and excessive federal regulations,” House Speaker John Boehner said.”
Private sector job growth continues to be undermined by the threat of government austerity, dysfunction in Congress, uncertainty in Europe, globalization, uprisings in the Middle East, and general lack of demand. But don’t let any of these other factors get in the way of your political tripe, Mr. Boehner. If you say it often enough and loud enough, maybe your constituents will come to believe you.
“It is very important for people to understand that the United States of America and no country around the world can devalue its way to prosperity and Competitiveness. It is not a viable, feasible strategy and we will not engage in it.”
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Financial Times, October 19, 2010
On July 3, 2008 — the day before Independence Day — Barack Obama said that adding $4 trillion in debt was irresponsible and “unpatriotic.”
www youtube.com/watch?v=1kuTG19Cu_Q
Here are Obama’s thoughts on the debt limit in 2006, when he voted against increasing the ceiling:
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
“Americans deserve better.”
They got exactly what they voted for!
If you elect turkeys, turkey is all you gonna get. - Jim Rogers
Harvard, Yale and Princeton! Banks, Bombs and Bailouts! - Gerald Celente
Of course this was before the bubble popped.
Keynes would say adding debt in times of plenty is not a good thing for gov to do, instead gov should be putting money away and taking away the punch bowl (contrast this w gop appointed alan greenspan and debt monkey gwb). When their is an economic collapse gov should borrow and spend because no one else can or will.
Of course this was before the bubble popped.
Keynes would say adding debt in times of plenty is not a good thing for gov to do, instead gov should be putting money away and taking away the punch bowl
When - in the course of the last 100 years of American history
HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED????
That is why the Keynesian economics theory does not work. Government ALWAYS spends - in good and bad times. It NEVER saves. Saving money does not buy you any votes.
As I recall the debt was being paid down under Clinton.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
I’m all for cutting the deficit.
I wouldn’t have handed out MASSIVE TAX cuts for the rich during a time of war, heck I would have minimized the war operations. I wouldn’t have pushed through the medicare prescription drug plan that forbids medicare from bargaining for cheaper durgs and thus it pays 60% more than the VA. I’d put up trade restrictions that reduce the outsourcing of our manufacturing and technology jobs thus increasing the tax base. Add a VAT tax and do away with payroll taxes. I’d socialize medicine and cut the 7500 per year per person we pay now down to 3000 per year with zero affect on the health of the country. Thus greatly reducing the cost of employing americans and running a business in this country.
Care to break that evil “government” down into different parties? Carter put on a sweater. Reagan threw out the solar panels. GHWB was kinda neutral. Clinton balanced the budget. GWB pi$$ed it away.
Saying that Keyensian economics doesn’t work is like saying you’ll lose weight if you only pig out half the day instead of the entire day.
“That is why the Keynesian economics theory does not work. Government ALWAYS spends - in good and bad times.”
Perhaps if people were better educated on Keynesian economics they would demand better.
It is very important for people to understand that the United States of America and no country around the world can devalue its way to prosperity and Competitiveness
And yet its what every country in the world is trying to do as no one (except apparently the USA) wants to be a net importer of goods. So they devalue their currencies and set up protectionist trade barriers, while we continue to offshore and borrow.
1. Where exactly did the 1/2 Billion dollars go?
2. How much did the CEO and board pay themselves?
3. How much money was funneled BACK to the obama and the democrat party?
4. How could a company that got over 1/2 Billion dollars go bankrupt in just 18 months?
5. Is this Hope and Change?
——————–
Investigators Probe White House Role in Massive Energy Loan
ABC News | 2 Sep 2011 | MATTHEW MOSK and RONNIE GREENE
House investigators said they have uncovered evidence that White House officials became personally involved in an Energy Department review of a hot-button $535 million loan guarantee to the now-failed California solar company Solyndra.
The allegation surfaced in a letter House Energy Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.) sent to the White House Thursday night, saying he planned to accelerate efforts to understand an investment deal that may have left taxpayers out half a billion dollars.
“We have learned from our investigation that White House officials monitored Solyndra’s application and communicated with [Department of Energy] and Office of Management and Budget officials during the course of their review,” the letter says.
Thursday’s letter, which calls on the White House to turn over correspondence between administration officials, Solyndra and its investors, presents the most pointed suggestion that the White House had direct involvement in the financing.
“How did this company, without maybe the best economic plan, all of a sudden get to the head of the line?” Upton told ABC News in an interview this week. “We want to know who made this decision … and we’re not going to stop until we get those answers.”
White House officials have said in interviews that they did not intervene in the Solyndra deal or others benefiting companies backed by supporters of the president. Yet the administration, from Obama to the Department of Energy, has very publicly praised the loan guarantee.
B…b…but I don’t understand. Obama and Pelosi and their minions promised us that this would be the most ethical and transparent administration ever.
So lets keep score. Iraq war = hundreds of billions down the drain vs. a few billion of wasted money training Americans how to manufacture advanced technology products. If we had protected our domestic markets maybe these new tech companies might not have folded?
A U.S. solar-panel manufacturer, promoted by President Barack Obama as a beneficiary of his administration’s economic policies and given a half-billion-dollar federal loan, is laying off 1,100 workers and filing for bankruptcy. Competition from China became too strong.
Solyndra LLC of Fremont, California, had become the poster child for government investment in green technology. The president visited the company in May 2010 and noted that Solyndra expected to hire 1,000 workers to manufacture solar panels. Other state and federal officials such as former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Energy Secretary Steven Chu also visited the company’s facilities.
Hard times have hit the American solar industry, however. Solyndra is the third solar company to seek bankruptcy protection this month. Officials said Wednesday that the global economy as well as unfavorable conditions in the solar industry combined to force the company to suspend its manufacturing operations.
The price for solar panels has collapsed, dropping by about 42 percent this year, largely because of heavy competition from Chinese companies.
Another solar company, Spectrawatt Inc. of Hopewell Junction, New York, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Aug. 19. Its CEO said in the filing that it could not compete with solar manufacturers in China, which receive “considerable government and financial support.”
So did it shut down from fraud or because China undercut solar prices to steal market share and technology from the US.
Gogo globilization
The “unfavorable conditions in the solar industry” is the drying up of rivers of taxpayer funded government subsidies for the whole basket of ecopolitic energy ponzi schemes. It’s not over yet, but the trajectory has reversed. The whole planet has wasted so much money, time and energy on this instead of sustainable efforts it is staggering. The next dead wealth extraction horse will be windmills, the most expensive electricity ever. What a testament to human gullibility.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-05/wind-power-s-best-projects-rival-costs-of-new-coal-fired-plants-bnef-says.html
The best wind power projects will cost about the same as new coal-fired plants, said Bloomberg New Energy Finance Chief Executive Michael Liebriech at a conference in New York today.
Electricity from new, high-quality wind power projects built today costs about $65 a megawatt-hour, Liebreich said. Power from a new coal-fired power plant costs about $68 a megawatt-hour
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-05/wind-power-s-best-projects-rival-costs-of-new-coal-fired-plants-bnef-says.html
Note in some areas it’s cheaper than coal. This also ignores the massive socialized costs of burning coal. pollution of air and water (see Massey mountaing top mining for data) cancer mercury poisoning you name it. It also ignores the real chance that coal prices will continue to rise due to money printing while wind energy from wind will provide energy at a fixed cost for the next 30 years.
Testiment to the faith based, factless community who rant over and over about the expense of greenpower but know nothing about it.
Solar energy prices are falling fast as well, and it’s only time before they are as cheap as coal.
“Testiment to the faith based, factless community who rant over and over about the expense of greenpower but know nothing about it.”
That’s really all you had to say to prove your point.
I’ve studied this subject probably for longer than you’ve been alive and have seen the information on the other side of the analysis. Wind power is several times more expensive than other means of generating electricity. The money is in the subsidies to build. It doesn’t pay to even do the maintenance after that. This information is available to you if you open the other eye. The need to have conventional power plants on standby constantly is a whole other subject. We went through this whole exercise a generation ago and remember nothing.
Tomorrow’s technology may triumph over today’s, maybe even over today’s physics, but it hasn’t come close yet. In the meantime, techno bullies with their nose in the trough will trash any doubters as zealouts have all through the ages.
I think it is the greatest irony that the driving force here is to keep up our delusional gluttonous lifestyle. It won’t.
“This information is available to you if you open the other eye.”
A woman I know kept telling me how “dangerous” the healthcare bill was. I asked her what part of the bill was “dangerous.” She told me to read the bill. My response was, “What part of the bill is dangerous?” Mind you, I didn’t necessarily disagree with her, but she wouldn’t share what she deemed as dangerous. So, I dismissed her testimony.
So, rather than say “look it up!”, might I recommend you state your sources for this? It might take your argument further, lest ye be dismissed. As in the case above, I’m not necessarily suggesting that you are incorrect. I, in fact, am fairly ignorant on the topic and would like to know more….
Of course, thank you for your generosity. I don’t mean to be lazy, but it’s not a tease to share my conclusions, mostly from talking to peers who work on that stuff, many of whom are customers of mine, my years in the business of energy and alternatives and high tech engineering. I’ve read papers with different views, but I don’t have a folder of citations. I’m not saying that the holy grail isn’t out there, I’m saying we are using technology that doesn’t cut it to siphon off funds from eager and foolish government programs. Here, expressing one’s thoughts is rather an invitation for a grammar school food fight, unless you agree with the crowd.
My simple test has always been this: you will know that alternative energy has come into its own when it is being chosen based on fundamental market forces, rather than subsidies.
Until such time, it is effectively a net energy loss.
This is coming from someone who loves the idea of alternative energy, and will design passive + active solar (at least water heating) into any future home that I build.
Averaged out every US citizen consumes about 14 times what the rest of the world population uses. If you think the rest of the world is going eventually want to have all the electronic stuff we do (about 24 electrical devices per person) then there will be a point when solar/wind will have to be used to supply that kind of demand. If you live is Dallas TX, your per house consumption is 16,000kw a year and growing at 3-4%.
It’s what technology wants, electrical power and lots more of it. If we use up all the cheap carbon based fuels someday the alternative supplies will be pretty nice to have around.
The future of life on earth is written in the program coded in all DNA. That DNA has been accelerating it’s energy consumption for hundreds of millions of years.
Read the book “What Technology Wants” by Kevin Kelly.
I hope you are joking about the DNA thing.
The article says wind is comparable to coal now. This does not take into account all the external costs of coal. Thus wind is cheaper than coal.
You admit that coal is likely to get more expensive.
So what better investment than to lock in your energy costs by purchasing wind power.
Instead you call wind a “testament to human gullability”
Note technology is making wind and solar power cheaper by the day while money printing and limited/more difficult to acquire coal is going to make coal more expensive.
Make your bets.
PS your plan to use the cheap stuff first forgets that wind and solar aren’t always on, thus we should try to conserve the so called cheap stuff for when we really need it.
Honestly, I love windmills. Love hydro best. Windmmills kill the birds and hydro kills the salmon. Both wipe out the landscape and our habitat along with it. Like Mr. Bubble said “oh well”.
The problem with comparing tomorrow’s output from an alt energy source with tomorrow’s projected conventional power cost is this; you use up coal/oil now to build this stuff that would be available tomorrow if you didn’t. The turbines will be relics before they pay us back. Not sure that is plain enough, but I watched all the smart people at Exxon try this logic in the 70’s.
You still don’t address the fact that new wind projects are producing energy now that is as cheap as coal produced electricity. Coal prices are rising. Technology is making wind power more and more cost effective.
I”ll give you salmon and hydro but we were talking about wind. The bird issue is a non issue, more birds are killed by tall buildings by far. Anyone with a large plate glass window in their house kills birds. Anyone driving their car kills birds. Windmills kill very few in comparison.
Now let’s compare that to the mass extinction going on because of global warming, or mercury in our water, or the massive destruction caused by mountain top mining where they just blow up an entire mountain scoop out the coal and push all the waste into the valley’s which then pollutes all the water.
Seriously address the issue of the cost of wind power vs coal in the Bloomberg article and the fact that wind power prices will fall with technology and coal prices will rise as the easy to get coal goes first.
I’ll pass on disecting Bloomberg.
I’ll pass on trying to explain the rising cost of oil vs the falling cost of physical plant fallacy.
Lousy conservation methods in mining, I’ll side with you.
There shouldn’t be any bird killing plate glass windows on mountain tops either, agreed?
I’ll rest at this: No one builds solar cells in a plant powered by solar cells. The end of subsidy has collapsed the whole scheme. Countries that have stopped subsidies have stopped building wind farms. We all Hope these things will make sense but they don’t yet to anyone investing their own money.
I do plan to put one of the little wind turbines on my boat, but the incentives are all different.
You’ll pass on dissecting the Bloomberg article that I provided saying the new wind projects are producing energy as cheaply as coal, and you won’t provide any link or ref supporting your view that new wind projects are still much more expensive.
nuff said
Well, you’re not looking for a conversation and I’m not looking for a pissing match. We all have little bits of information to add to a reasonable conversation. Hey, buy stock in that company if you can verify their numbers. If it’s in Bloomberg, it is sure to really get down to the bone of things! They steered us right on housing, didn’t they?
The “taxpayer funded government subsidies” are just helping these projects to become competitive with industries that have had years of freebies and lack of competition. It’s call “economies of scale”. I learned about it in high school econ.
And “The next dead wealth extraction horse will be windmills, the most expensive electricity ever.” is just absolutely talking out of one’s derriere.
“sustainable efforts “
What is sustainable? If solar and wind are not sustainable, what energy sources are?
stop, you are scaring the children!
This is why the government shouldn’t be picking which technologies to support. There is a very legit role for government in supporting the infrastructure needed to deliver electricity - the power grid. Government already provides support to the highway system which is the infrastructure that moves oil and gas around.
However, it is easier to cut ribbons and make speeches in factories than it is in front of a replaced line or whatever. Real infrastructure is not always good for speeches. Be wary of it.
And if China is “dumping” sbsidized solar panels, then there is a legit claim before the WTO.
scew the WTO who influences WTO decisions.
Is “drill, baby, drill” your favorite energy policy?
On the article: witch hunt. How about investigating Wall St. more?
On solar power: the Chinese have been buying and literally dismantling and shipping OUR solar mfg factories back to their country. We are so effing stupid we’re letting them.
If you aren’t putting solar panels on your house, RIGHT NOW, you are about to get effed and effed hard in the coming years.
For the price of new AVERAGE car, (14-18K) you can COMPLETELY power a 2000sqft house year round. Big screens and everything.
But go ahead and get that new Beemer/Esclade/SUV/Lexus/Camaro… poser.
more importantly, get efficient first! Insulation, new appliances, smart building practices can save more energy than we can generate with solar / wind.!!
Now, what’s that about declining house prices leading to lower property taxes?
From our local Pioneer Press, on the Senior “Freeze” Program
The arrival of property tax bills from the Cook County Treasurer’s Office later this month could have many older adults asking, “Where’s the freeze?”
While the tax break has proved a boon to older adults during the years when property values soared and tax rates plummeted, this year, the effect will be just the opposite because tax rates are expected to rise, mostly as a result of falling assessments.
“We are looking at a very large increase in tax rates,” said Nick Pavletic, deputy assessor for Evanston Township, where the median assessment change for single-family homes in 2010 was a 12 percent decrease. “A lot of the seniors that I see in this office have been on the freeze for some time and they are gong to see a hit.”
Pavletic expects to get questions like, “My first bill was $750. How come my second bill is almost $900?”
“I am very concerned because most seniors don’t really understand what the program is. It is an assessment freeze. It is not a tax freeze.”
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Ah!
Kafka
Market Expects Operation Twist in September- Reuters
Bond investors see Federal Reserve action to boost the flagging U.S. economy as practically a done deal after Friday’s dismal jobs report.
Print baby, print. Of course none of this new cash will wind up in J6P’s pocket book, but we will get plenty of price inflation with it. Heck, gasoline prices are already rising again.
The Market expects?
I personally do not know one single person who thinks the Fed can do anything to boost the economy.
Market = Trading desks of the big banks
Stories like this are blatent hints to bully Bernanke. I remember this in 2006. Bernanke would lower interest rates 0.25 point, and within 10 minutes CNBC would run “news” like “Bernanke to lower rates again???” And these idiots bought it.
I hate these people. They have enough money to do oil city plan 100 times over and never work another day in their lives. Yet, they always need more more more. Meanwhile, working folk, many of whom who saved and borrowed for college, are lucky to have a job to live paycheck to paycheck.
These are junkies. They just want to get high and high……
And sadly, they have become the “market” in today’s amerika.
No. Not junkies. Junkies have built-in limiters, usually money problems or health or death.
The extremely rich are megalomaniacs. They define it. Literally.
Obama halts controversial EPA regulation
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama on Friday scrapped his administration’s controversial plans to tighten smog rules, bowing to the demands of congressional Republicans and some business leaders.
Obama overruled the Environmental Protection Agency — and the unanimous opinion of its independent panel of scientific advisers — and directed administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the proposed regulation to reduce concentrations of ground-level ozone, smog’s main ingredient. The decision rests in part on reducing regulatory burdens and uncertainty for businesses at a time of rampant uncertainty about an unsteady economy.
The announcement came shortly after a new government report on private sector employment showed that businesses essentially added no new jobs last month — and that the jobless rate remained stuck at a historically high 9.1 percent.
The withdrawal of the proposed regulation marks the latest in a string of retreats by Obama in the face of Republican opposition. Last December, he shelved, at least until the end of 2012, his insistence that Bush-era tax cuts should no longer apply to the wealthy. Earlier this year he avoided a government shutdown by agreeing to Republican demands for budget cuts. And this summer he acceded to more than a $1 trillion in spending reductions, with more to come, as the price for an agreement to raise the nation’s debt ceiling.
A spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, had muted praise for the White House, saying that withdrawal of the smog regulation was a good first step toward removing obstacles that are blocking business growth.
“But it is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stopping Washington Democrats’ agenda of tax hikes, more government ’stimulus’ spending, and increased regulations, which are all making it harder to create more American jobs,” Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said.
No surprise there. They all work for the same people.
Obama just covered it up for the election.
Get ready for more mercury in your water, more pollution in your city, more nuclear waste in your back yard. See China environment for details.
We have to compete with China right, so everyone work for food and a cardboard shack while the elite command everything. Everyone suck it up and accept pollution and a poor standard of living.
The counterfeit culture – useful observations for understanding why collapse is inevitable - Mike Adams - September 2, 2011
(NaturalNews) Through a devolving web of greed, self-serving power and a departure from fundamental ethics, Western culture has, over the last hundred years, become the counterfeit culture.
Nothing is real anymore — not the food, not the money, and certainly not the evening news. And because it’s not real, it’s not sustainable. That’s why it’s headed for collapse, which isall too real, as many people are about to find out.
In the mean time, here are some observations about the counterfeit culture in which we all frustratingly find ourselves. It’s all about corporations, governments and institutions being “in the business of” counterfeiting something — faking something or pretending to create something of value when they really aren’t. Ring a bell?
The Counterfeit Culture
The Federal Reserve is in the business ofcounterfeiting money.
The mainstream media is in the business ofcounterfeiting news.
The pharmaceutical industry is in the business ofcounterfeiting medicine(Biopracy! They are stealing molecules from nature then counterfeiting their own patented variations.)
The medical schools are in the business ofcounterfeiting medical degrees. (When a doctor graduates from medical school, he still knows virtually nothing about nutrition.)
Doctors are in the business ofcounterfeiting false medical authority.
The mega-sized food corporations are in the business ofcounterfeiting food. (Processed cheese food product, anyone?)
The global consumer product companies are in the business of manufacturingcounterfeit consumer productssuch a “baby oil” (which is really a petroleum product).
Social networks like Facebook are in the business ofcounterfeiting friends. (Please LIKE this article, okay?)
Cookie-cutter home builders are in the business of constructingcounterfeit homesout of plywood, styrofoam and sheetrock… many these homes will not be standing in just 20 years.
Local city councils are in the business ofcounterfeiting power. (Obey or be punished!)
Public schools are in the business ofcounterfeiting school diplomas. (Huh? What? Who needs to learn how to write, anyway?)
ThePentagon is in the business ofcounterfeiting war. (Don’t have a war to fight? Bomb the World Trade Center and blame it on someone!)
Mainstream historians are in the business ofcounterfeiting history. (Everything you were taught about history in public school is a lie…)
The globalist banksters are in the business ofcounterfeiting debt. (You thought it was money, didn’t ya? But it’s really just debt.)
FWIW, the surgeoens who safely removed my appendix and a few years later my gall bladder were not “counterfeit”.
And should anyone say that I needed them to be removed because of my “counterfeit” lifestyle, I will remind them that 100+ years ago most people croaked before turning 50.
Actually the reality is not so clear cut. My friend is really into historic cemetaries. So one day we went back to her hometown and we checked out the cemetary right in town. It was an absolutely stunning piece of land. Many large beautiful headstones and family statues w/in miniplots could be found throughout the grounds. We realized as we read the engravings that these people lived almost as long as we do. I was quite surprised as most of these people had been buried in the 1800s.
On the way home we hit up a 2nd cemetary with much more humble markers. The lot itself was much smaller and there were no bushes or plantings. It was more like a flat lot w/several hundred smallish markers many only about 6×9 flat stones. The stones that even had dates on them put their time of death as much younger. What was the difference of the two places? Wealth. The deaths at earlier ages in the these time periods in the 1800s only reflected a harder life, probably w/o the same medical and nutitional options, It probably reflected the reality of hard physical labor w/o protections vs the life of a “thinking” man.
I could imagine us returning to this reality if things continue the way they’re going.
“Many large beautiful headstones and family statues w/in miniplots could be found throughout the grounds. We realized as we read the engravings that these people lived almost as long as we do. I was quite surprised as most of these people had been buried in the 1800s.”
There is what statisticians call selectivity bias in the data. Those lucky enough to be born with longevity genes lived longer than average, enabling them to accumulate sufficient wealth over their lifetimes to afford a large, beautiful, engraved headstone.
Monsanto Corn Falls to Illinois Bugs
- Bloomberg
Monsanto Co. insect-killing corn is falling over in northwestern Illinois fields, a sign that root-worms outside of Iowa may have developed resistance to the genetically modified crop, according to one scientist.
Michael Gray, an agricultural entomologist at the University of Illinois in Urbana, said he’s studying whether western corn rootworms collected last month in Henry and Whiteside counties are resistant to an insect-killing protein derived from Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, a natural insecticide engineered into Monsanto corn.
The insects were collected in two fields where corn had toppled after roots were eaten by root-worms, Gray said today. Planting Bt corn year after year increases the odds that the bugs will develop resistance to the insecticide, he said. While the symptoms parallel bug resistance that’s been confirmed in Iowa, analysis of the Illinois insects won’t be complete until next year, he said.
“Whatever is the cause, it is generating a lot of concern.” Gray said in a telephone interview. “I wouldn’t say at this point it’s just an isolated field here or there.”
Lee Quarles, a spokesman for St. Louis-based Monsanto, didn’t immediately return a call seeking comment.
Really old news dude. I was reading about this last year but it’s now big enough for Wall St. to notice. It’s in the DNA! Lots more surprises to come as we cook up new batches of GM seed and various farm animals. Our technology moves about 100 times as fast as our built-in ability to adapt.
Don’t get me started… I can’t eat wheat, corn, any milk products, add peanuts to the growing list. Gluten-Free or my intestines are a train wreck. My doc tested me for food issues.
Great new book just hit the market by Dr. William Davis MD (A Cardiologist)”Wheat Belly”
Watch this interview about Monsanto’s non-wheat gmo wheat plants. Dr. Davis keeps his patients out of the O.R. He knows his stuff.
http://www.themorningblend.com/videos/125226934.html
Tax,baby Tax!
Restaurants in Greece refuse to pay VAT rise
By Kerin Hope in Athens (FT)
Tax evasion in Greece threatened to take organised form on Thursday when café and restaurant owners refused to pay a 10-point VAT rise, as a deep recession clashes with the government’s increasingly desperate search for revenue.
But for many of Greece’s ubiquitous cafés and souvlaki stands, which have already seen a 20-40 per cent decline in business in the past year as customers rein in spending, the VAT rise is the final straw.
“Our members voted at an extraordinary general assembly not to pay the increase because it will drive many establishments out of business,” said the PanHellenic Federation of Restaurants and Related Professions, representing more than 15,000 hospitality businesses.
Sete, an association of Greek hoteliers and tour operators, said the tax rise was “inappropriate, unjust and will not produce the revenues it targets”.
The measure is projected to raise €750m ($1,072m) over the next year, according to the finance ministry, which says owners will be fined for tax evasion if they fail to pay VAT at the increased rate.
The restaurateurs’ reaction highlights the desperation of Greece’s small business community amid the worst recession in memory. The economy is set to shrink this year by more than 5 per cent and by another 2 per cent in 2012, according to finance ministry projections.
Grigoris Dimitropoulos, owner of a café on Adrianou, a pedestrian street close to the Acropolis, called the increase “totally unfair”, given that VAT was raised from 9 per cent to 13 per cent less than a year ago.
“Last year, hospitality traders in central Athens absorbed the full increase, even though it meant a big cut in profits. This time, if we are eventually forced to pay up, we’ll have to raise prices,” Mr Dimitropoulos said.
The government agreed the latest VAT increase in June under pressure from EU and International Monetary Fund experts, after the budget showed a revenue shortfall of €2.1bn in the first four months.
“already seen a 20-40 per cent decline in business in the past year as customers rein in spending”
Wonder if that has anything to do with the spending cuts.
Wonder whaich hurts worse? Not having customers, or havnig to pay a higher tax on the customers you have.
How’s that balanced budget working out for Greece?
How’s that socialism working out for Greece? Decades of it have turned them into a nation of deadbeats and cheats. We’re well on our way down the same path.
Union leader draws lucrative pension perk based on false information
By Jason Grotto, Chicago Tribune reporter
Every month, Thomas Villanova gets a $9,000 reminder of how lucrative it can be to serve as a union leader in Chicago.
The sum is part of a city pension that comes on top of the $198,000 annual salary he is paid to represent the interests of thousands of city workers.
Villanova last worked for the city in 1989 as an electrical mechanic with the Department of Streets and Sanitation, making about $40,000 a year. Yet in 2008 he was allowed to retire at age 56 with a $108,000 city pension. That’s because, under a little-known state law, his pension was based not on his city paycheck but on his much higher union salary.
This kind of deal is available only to union officials who meet certain requirements, but a Tribune/WGN-TV investigation has uncovered documents that show Villanova violated state law when he applied for the pension and cast doubt on whether he truly qualifies for all that money.
To boost his taxpayer-supported city pension, Villanova signed documents certifying that he had waived his union pension and had two union officials write letters supporting his claim. In fact, records show dues collected from the rank-and-file were still set aside for Villanova’s union pension.
When city pension fund officials discovered last year that Villanova never gave up his union pension, they gave him a pass and didn’t move to take away his city retirement benefits.
What’s more, labor leaders can get an inflated city pension only if they are on a leave of absence from a city job to work full time for a union. But officials from the municipal pension fund approved Villanova’s application despite city employment records that show he took a leave to go back to school and then let that leave of absence expire in 1992.
Now just 58, Villanova stands to collect approximately $3 million from the city’s municipal pension fund during his lifetime, according to a Tribune/WGN-TV analysis based on the fund’s actuarial assumptions. And because the state’s pension laws are so broken, he didn’t have to contribute enough to the city pension fund to cover the costs, which means taxpayers will make up the shortfall.
“It’s egregious. I haven’t seen this anywhere else in the country,” said Keith Brainard, research director of the National Association of State Retirement Administrators, when he heard about Villanova’s deal. “The spirit of a pension plan is insurance against poverty. It’s not to become wealthy.”
OK, I have to agree this guy is an idiot.
There’s been an exodus in on this street in Paradise (Las Vegas) in the last few months, many houses sold/foreclosed, etc.
This listing isn’t new, but they’ve just added pictures and a note that the frat boy renters may be willing to stay. Pretty messy and there’s living room furniture in the backyard.
http://listings.listhub.net/pages/GLVARNV/1180524/
This house is a case in point of why you should give the tenants the heave-ho before listing it for sale.
Colorado logger cuts off toes after foot is pinned
- Associated Press
DENVER — Jon Hutt was doing logging work all alone in a remote Colorado forest when his six-ton trailer fell onto his right foot.
The pain was excruciating, no one was around to hear his cries for help and he couldn’t free himself from the big piece of equipment. So he pulled out his 3-inch pocket knife and cut off his toes to get free.
“It hurt so bad,” the 61-year-old Hutt said, “I would cut for a while and then I had to rest.”
Hutt then climbed into his semi tractor-trailer, his foot wrapped in a shirt, and began driving for help. Hutt’s ordeal was first reported in the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel.
Hutt, who runs a crane business and does logging “for fun,” had gone into the woods by himself on Aug. 19 to retrieve a pile of fallen aspen trees to cut for winter firewood. A trailer that was attached to his truck slipped and landed on his foot.
The wiry, 180-pound man told The Associated Press that he began cutting off his toes about 30 minutes later when he realized no one could hear his cries. Hutt said he couldn’t reach his cell phone, which was in his truck and out of range anyway.
Hutt told his wife he would be back in several hours from a job 50 miles away, but he did not know when she might start searching for him.
“I cut off my boot to see my foot, and once I realized how bad it was, I started cutting off my toes,” Hutt said.
Once he freed himself, Hutt stopped the bleeding with the shirt and drove toward his home outside Montrose, about 175 miles southwest of Denver. He called for help once he was in cell phone range. An ambulance met him on the way.
Hutt said authorities retrieved his severed toes and took them to the hospital, but doctors said the toes couldn’t be re-attached because they were too badly mangled.
“They told me there was no hope for them. They said there was nothing to attach the toes to,” he said.
Instead, doctors sewed his foot shut and wrapped it in bandages. Doctors warned him he may face more surgery.
Hutt, who has also worked as a miner, ran a saw mill, built log houses and grew up on a ranch, said his wife met him at the hospital and asked him if he was OK.
“There was no crying or whining,” he said.
His wife, Margaret, said she didn’t worry because she knew her husband might be gone for most of the day, but she started shaking when she got a message he left on her cell phone: “Please call, I cut my foot off.”
She said she was only slightly relieved when she found out it was his toes.
You can’t fix that kind of stupid.
“You can’t fix that kind of stupid.”
No, but you can cut it off.
You can’t fix that kind of stupid.
What’s stupid? Going out on your own to do work like that? Sure. But doing what’s necessary to free yourself? I admire that he was able to do it.
Granted, I’d probably wait several hours before resorting to that, depending on the temperature and whether water was available.
Adults get life-sized sandbox near Las Vegas Strip
Sandbox toys get life-sized treatment in Sin City, giving adults a new way to play.
LAS VEGAS (AP) — Las Vegas has seen its share of heavy construction equipment as it bulldozed its way through one giant casino project after another. But with the recession having gutted the construction industry, excavators and bulldozers near the Strip are being put to use as toys for thrill-seeking visitors.
A business owner has created what amounts to a life-sized sandbox for adults who pay up to $750 each to push around dirt, rock and huge tires with the earth-moving construction equipment. All it takes is a 10-minute classroom lesson and guidance from trainers through headsets.
“I thought it would be much clunkier, and the lighter you are with the controls, the easier it worked,” said Mary Fitzsimons, an emergency room doctor from Walnut Creek, Calif., who spent roughly two hours digging a trench, moving tires and using the machine’s bucket to scoop basketballs atop cones.
“I thought I wouldn’t pick it up, I thought I would totally futz it up,” Fitzsimons said.
Ed Mumm said he started Dig This after renting and operating an excavator for himself for two days while building a house in Steamboat Springs, Colo. He quickly realized that toying with heavy construction equipment is a diversion that takes participants completely out of their everyday lives.
“I thought to myself: If I’m having this much fun, imagine the amount of people that don’t get to do this stuff that would love to do this,” he said.
“When they’re in those machines, everything else doesn’t mean anything,” added Mumm, 45. “They’ve forgotten about all the stresses in their lives because the fact is, they’ve got to focus on that piece of equipment. When they get in there and they rev up that engine, they know they’ve got a serious program on their hands.”
The play sandbox sits just across the freeway from the Las Vegas Strip, near remnants of an actual construction industry that nosedived in 2008 and hasn’t recovered. Major projects, including the Fontainebleau Las Vegas and Boyd Gaming Corp.’s Echelon, were started and partially financed but never completed as the Great Recession walloped the gambling industry and made it clear that steady casino construction seen over the past 20 years was over.
State figures showed just over 54,000 construction workers employed in Nevada in July, down 8.6 percent compared with July 2010. There are no new major hotel or casino developments scheduled to open through the end of next year, according to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority.
Travis Mills, a trainer at Dig This who has worked construction, said he hopes to never go back to the industry.
“A lot of my construction friends are just sitting at home and there’s nothing going on,” the 24-year-old said as he watched Fitzsimons digging dirt.
“This is a lot more fun — I don’t get yelled at by my superintendent all day,” Mills said. “I like being around equipment, so that’s a plus.”
Fitzsimons said she was surprised by how delicate the machines can be, even as they lift objects that would be very difficult to maneuver manually. But she said her short lesson doesn’t mean she’d be able to pitch in on a worksite if they need an extra hand.
“I don’t think I could jump in and do it but at least I have a better understanding of what they’re doing,” she said. “No, I’m not ready yet.”
If you’ve never driven heavy equipment, you REALLY don’t know what you’re missing!
“Fun” barely begins to describe it.
New Marketwatch money honey at work:
If You Thought August Was Bad…
Sept. 2, 2011
September’s already off to a rocky start in keeping with its historic role as Wall Street’s worst month on average, but Trading Strategies looks at a dozen ways to profit in the volatile days ahead.