September 9, 2011

There’s No Return To Normal

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “New figures by the Honolulu Board of Realtors show the median price of real estate on Oahu taking a plunge in the month of August. Brian Benton, a sales manager with Prudential Locations and former BOR president, believes there’s no reason to panic. While home foreclosures have had a dramatic impact on real estate prices on the mainland, the same dynamic is not taking shape in Hawaii. ‘You’re always going to be in a situation where people understand the value of real estate in Hawaii,’ said Benton. ‘It’s not like I’m going to be buying a house at fifty cents on the dollar - that is just not going to happen.’”

“Pacific Business News reported that more than 39 percent of all home sales in Maui County in the second quarter were foreclosures. The 250 foreclosure sales on Maui, Molokai and Lanai represented an 8 percent increase from the second quarter of 2010, it reported. Maui County’s foreclosure sales percentage outpaced the state’s three other counties: Kauai, 33 percent foreclosure sales; the Big Island, 27 percent; and Oahu, 13 percent.”

“The UH economists report: ‘There is no clear sign of a bottom for prices, with first-half, single-family home sale prices down nearly 6 percent on Maui and 4 percent on the Big Island. Prevailing single-family home prices are now 42 to 43 percent below peak in these counties.’”

“Gene Kessler has owned four homes in his lifetime, and until recently had enjoyed homeownership for 45 years. He’s not bemoaning the loss of his three-bedroom home in New Ulm, Minn. Rather, Kessler is relieved that he’s no longer on the hook for a $1,250 a month mortgage on a home whose value has declined dramatically. Like most homeowners, Kessler had run the numbers and asked himself questions like, ‘How much house can I afford?’ before he forked over a $40,000 down payment on the 2,000-square-foot, brick home that cost him $164,900.”

“But with the sagging housing market, all that equity has dried up. Kessler’s home is now worth just $111,000. ‘I found out about the process of walking away and how it would affect my credit,’ he says. ‘I also found out that big businesses and smart investors have been doing this for years, so emotionally I don’t feel bad about this at all. I don’t think I’ll ever buy another house again. I like the feeling of not having that mortgage hanging over my head.’”

“Bob and Sandy Lagow have had their mountain home on the market for more than a year and have had only one showing. The 3,000-square-foot home on 21 acres on Green Mountain Meadow in Livermore was custom made and carries a selling price of $750,000. In this economy, higher end homes are languishing on the market much longer than lower-priced homes like Grier’s. Some don’t sell at all.”

“The Lagows are eager to move to New Mexico and a warmer climate. The Lagows are retired and can afford to be patient. ‘We’re in no hurry. When the house sells, it sells. We will wait it out and hopefully someone will come and buy it.’”

“The on-again, off-again completion of Edenmoor is back on. The Lancaster County Forfeited Land Commission approved and signed a contract recently with Saybrook Capital, a California-based company that buys distressed and defaulted municipal bonds. The contract allows the company to purchase the property and complete development at Edenmoor, an Indian Land community that went into foreclosure after the developers abandoned the property.”

“Edenmoor resident Jan Tacy paid $850 in bond assessment fees last year. ‘And that’s for the privilege of living in Edenmoor. For that, we get nothing. We have roads falling apart, no amenities, and we still pay $525 a year in HOA (homeowners association) fees,’ Tacy said.”

“While nine alleged co-conspirators involved in the Craig Adams mortgage fraud case head for a 2012 trial and five more already have pled guilty, federal investigators are wrapping up a lower-profile case against a ring of Southwest Florida property flippers. Matthew Landsman is the latest to be sentenced for his role in the scheme, which involved artificially inflating the values of condominium units in Palmer Ranch and lying on loan applications. In her closing statements before sentencing Michael Chadwick in October, U.S. District Court Judge Elizabeth Kovachevich said flipping schemes proliferated to such an extent that they contributed to the economic crisis and high unemployment.”

“A lot of people were gambling — a lot,’ Kovachevich said. ‘So we are facing a very serious economic situation in our state and an employment situation in our state which affects everybody.”"

“Despite several years of falling home prices, the gap between income levels and home values in Hampton Roads is wider than before the housing boom, according to a recent report. The bottom line: Home prices could continue to fall in Hampton Roads for some time, wrote Svenja Gudell, a senior economist at Zillow, in the report. ‘Markets in which the price-to-income level is still substantially above historical levels may see further declines in home values before stabilizing,’ she wrote.”

“Another option, Gudell wrote, is that home values in markets such as Hampton Roads may stabilize but stay flat for a longer period of time, waiting for incomes to catch up. ‘Interpreting price-to-income ratios is part art and part science,’ she wrote. ‘Generally, for markets which have had some stability in price-to-income ratios, deviations from long-term trends tend to be followed by a return to historical levels.’”

“‘We can quibble with whether that’s the correct equilibrium or not,’ said Vinod Agarwal, an economist at Old Dominion University. ‘But regardless of how we look it, this report does show that prices are still too high in this area.’”

“Robert Van Ausdal has worked in the construction business in Las Vegas for fifteen years as a construction glazer, installing glass windows in the city’s high-rise hotel projects. He now finds part-time work installing shower screens in people’s homes. He is describing the construction site of the Fontainebleau, a 63 storey mega-hotel: ‘It’s disheartening to see the cranes just sitting there with their booms on the ground and nobody on the construction site.’”

“The planned development featured more than 3,800 rooms - but construction was halted in the spring of 2008 with the hotel around 70% complete. It remains the biggest monument to the city’s property crash, an enormous rusting hulk at the end of the Las Vegas Strip. Condominium sales were supposed to have funded a large portion of the Fontainebleau’s construction cost. When the property market crashed this source of funding evaporated and the developer’s bank, Bank of America, withdrew their line of credit.”

“Anthony Marnell is a Las Vegas architect who built many of the city’s major hotels including the Mirage, the Bellagio and Wynn Las Vegas. Asked for his advice for a construction worker in the city, Mr Marnell doesn’t mince his words. ‘Go someplace else. Leave Las Vegas. There are no big construction projects happening here.’”

“Millions of new jobs could fire up the country and melt the Memphis area’s double-digit jobless rate. But an extraordinary financial downdraft still chills the United States. Some economists doubt it will soon relent, in spite of Washington’s stimulus. ‘I’m appalled by the reflexive use of the word ’stimulus,’ which implies you can dump money on the economy and it will restart along the same lines as a few years ago. This cannot work,’ said James Galbraith, a University of Texas economist who contends the recovery will take another decade.”

“Cities won’t crumble — the complex of colleges, hospitals and government services are wellsprings of jobs, Galbraith said. But to get by, people must have a trade or skill, Galbraith said — like a medical technician assisting a carpenter fixing the house of a bookkeeper working at a truck line hauling for a medical warehouse.”

“Bruce Yandle, an economist at Virginia’s George Mason University, agrees. The country faces a parched era until families work off debts and can afford new houses again. Three million excess houses in U.S. cities sit unsold, Yandle said, while the poor job market frustrates young adults doubling up or living with relatives. Household formations number 390,000 per year, compared with 1 million annually before the economy sagged, Yandle said, so it’ll take years to absorb the surplus houses.”

“‘We’re a people accustomed to fixing things,’ Yandle said. ‘But there’s not a short path to a fix for this one — namely the magnitude of the mal-allocated capital’ into housing. I don’t think there is any policy or stimulus,’ Yandle said, ‘that you can put in place and whammo, this economy is going to get up and start running fast again.’”

“‘There’s no return to normal,’ Galbraith said, referring to the mid-2000s, when an easy-money policy spurred a housing and financial services boom that collapsed under mortgage fraud and miscues.”




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55 Comments »

Comment by 2banana
2011-09-09 06:50:27

‘You’re always going to be in a situation where people understand the value of real estate in Hawaii,’ said Benton. ‘It’s not like I’m going to be buying a house at fifty cents on the dollar - that is just not going to happen.’”

He is right - should drop to more like 30 cents on the dollar when we finally hit bottom…

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-09-09 08:19:44

I lived in Hawaii for 4 years.

If you’ve not lived there, you really can’t understand it. There is a SERIOUS lack of housing on Oahu. Rent prices are very high. i worked with 40 year old, college grad, computer programmers that lived with their parents becuase it took 4 incomes to make a house payment.

This is not a 700 sqft condo in Tempe being listed at 4x the price of a 2000 sqft house 2 miles away.

Oahu at least, has a serious shortage of housing, very high rents, and a population willing to live 3 generation in a house to enjoy the priviliage of living in paradise.

The paradise tax is very high, but for many, it is more than worth it.

Comment by 2banana
2011-09-09 08:34:04

How is this different from Japan?

And the have seen housing decline for some 20 years now…

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-09-09 08:37:11

One thing is in Japan, people have better jobs.

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Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 10:21:04

I am not saying that house proces won’t slide, or that they won’t eventually reach a 50% off discount.

I’m simply saying that I don’t think they will ever reach.. say… Phoenix levels.

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Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 14:29:33

How’s Japan’s immigration policies these days?

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Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2011-09-09 09:44:00

“The paradise tax is very high, but for many, it is more than worth it.”
I went to high school in Hawaii and, frankly, got tired of it. Too many threats from “mokes,” simply because I was a “haole.” (A friend of mine ended up getting the s**t beaten out of him for being a “haole.”) They can take their “paradise” and shove it!

Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 10:35:09

I too was more than ready to leave. But some love it and will never leave.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-09 11:11:43

Back in the late 1980s, I worked with a lady who was born and raised in Hawaii.

Well, come college time, she was off the island of Oahu like a light. Went to the University of California-Davis. When I met her, she was a graduate student at the University of Arizona.

To put it mildly, I was astounded at her decision to (gasp!) leave Paradise behind. She gently explained to me that there’s this thing called Island Fever.

Simply put, it means that, when you get into your teens or early adulthood, you decide that Hawaii is just too confining. And you leave for the Mainland as soon as you can.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-09 13:11:06

Hawaii - I don’t like it. Been to a few islands, and it wasn’t for me. Now, Italy or France on the coast…Whoppee!
(God, I was meant to be rich.)

 
Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 13:40:00

I had Island Fever pretty bad after 4 years. You hop in your car and can only drive maybe half hour in any one direction before having to turn and go another direction. My friend/neighbor was an army ranger. He participated in a bike ride that went all the way around Oahu…. took like 4-5 hours if I recall. Just over 100 miles.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2011-09-09 18:13:38

“Too many threats from “mokes,” simply because I was a “haole.” (A friend of mine ended up getting the s**t beaten out of him for being a “haole.”)”

Senseless. This happened to a friend of mine while visiting. He was walking on the beach with his girlfriend one evening when some natives came up and beat the living tar out of him for no reason. It was an extremely painful and humiliating situation for him.

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Comment by michael
2011-09-09 10:18:51

so…it’s different there?

Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 10:24:03

Different from areas that have plenty of room to build? Yes.

Different from say.. San Fran or coastal L.A or San Diego or Manhattan? No.

Some places have naturally high demand and low supply. Those places are very different from places that have low demand and high supply.

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Comment by ragerunner
2011-09-09 13:35:34

Very true in many ways. But, they don’t have the income levels of San Fran, L.A., and Manhattan and that could turn out to be a big game changer, for how their housing bubble plays out.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-09-09 06:51:58

‘It’s not like I’m going to be buying a house at fifty cents on the dollar - that is just not going to happen.’

Oh, for sure. What about at 50 cents on the half-dollar?

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-09-09 06:54:01

Maybe he meant for himself?

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-09 06:55:50

“Gene Kessler has owned four homes in his lifetime, and until recently had enjoyed homeownership for 45 years. He’s not bemoaning the loss of his three-bedroom home in New Ulm, Minn. Rather, Kessler is relieved that he’s no longer on the hook for a $1,250 a month mortgage on a home whose value has declined dramatically.

LATION: In a house that should have been paid off a LONG time ago - Gene Kessler took out home equity loans out the wazoo, He lived a pretty good life - new cars, trips to Vegas, new boobs for the wife and new granite countertops until housing prices stopped climbing and he could not take out any more loans…

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-09 08:48:17

“One trend we’re seeing is a lot more people who are nearing retirement age,” Maddux says. “Many have never missed a payment in their life on anything. They’re scared to do this, but they’ve been sent to us from their financial planner or someone they trust.”

I agree, why the hell are people nearing retirement age still paying a mortgage? How the hell did someone expect to pay a mortgage at age 67? What was the lender thinking?

“In Kessler’s case, however, he’s not bemoaning the loss of his three-bedroom home in New Ulm, Minn. Rather, Kessler is relieved that he’s no longer on the hook for a $1,250 a month mortgage on a home whose value has declined dramatically.”

How much is Kessler going to pay in rent? Does he plan to move into a homeless shelter? Government subsidized senior citizen housing?

I’ll tell you how much rent I’ll be paying at age 67 — zero, because I’ll be living in a paid off home. In fact, I knew I had to have that loan paid off by the time my kids were college age, and got a 15 year loan because my homeownership had been delayed by — the 1980s bi-coastal housing bubble.

Comment by OCsandrenter
2011-09-10 13:28:29

I’ll tell you how much rent I’ll be paying at age 67 — zero, because I’ll be living in a paid off home.

Not quite true WT, as I’m in the same boat; we’ll still be paying property taxes into perpetuity. So far in Portland, they’ve long-term averaged about 3% annual increase (about 1 1/3% of assessed which is close to market) over the 6 years I’ve “loanOwned”.

PdxHomeDebtor

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2011-09-09 08:53:40

He had been a homeowner for 38 years when he paid a $40K downpayment on that house in 2004. How could he have had so little equity by that time? The 38 years should mean he should have paid off any 30 year mortgage with 8 years to boot. He should have been able to pay CASH for a $169,500 house.

Comment by BetterRenter
2011-09-10 00:33:40

Cash for a house? Up to the 2000s? You should have paid attention to all the prevailing media that said that paying cash for a house was just about the most stupid thing you could ever do. You’d be skipping the “tax advantages”, and you’d also be missing out on “making your money work for you” in other investments, yadda yadda.

We have the most effective propaganda system on earth. I firmly believe we actually have most effective propaganda system ever designed, since it’s made total fools out of the best educated people, ever.

We find people retiring with mortgages because Americans have been conditioned by this propaganda system to believe that they can be rich by taking on debt, and that they must always trade UP on housing each time they change their domicile. Around retirement, people make plans on moving. So the system essentially guaranteed that fairly old people would still have mortgages.

 
 
Comment by polly
2011-09-09 14:27:16

When new associates asked me how I was able to pay off my student loans so quickly (they didn’t seem to be making any progress), I always told them, “You can only spend the money once.” I went on to explain that if you wanted to live like you were a very well-paid young professional (with the nice Manhattan apartment and lots of eating out and taxi rides and shopping), you weren’t going to be able to accellerate the student loans by much. If you wanted to accellerate the student loan payments, you weren’t going to have the high end life style. One or the other. Not both. Never met anyone else who chose my way of doing it.

Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2011-09-10 00:28:06

I paid off my loans last October. Sent in a $28000 check to wrap them up 15 years early. There, you met another person. Let’s get a beer!

 
 
 
Comment by Amy P
2011-09-09 07:12:21

The Kessler walk-away story is kind of strange, at least if the article numbers are correct. He buys a house for $165k (with 40 down) seven years ago, it’s now worth $111k, and when he went into foreclosure, the pay-off amount was $140k. Either the reporter messed something up (like maybe the house was actually $205k with $40k down) or he took some equity out of the house.

I get why somebody wouldn’t want to continue paying a $400k mortgage on a $200k house, but this is a really silly walk-away story. The house is only $30k under water and from the income mentioned, it doesn’t sound like the $1250 mortgage payment is breaking him. He just wants to move to Santa Fe.

Oh, yeah, and he’s owned homes for 45 years and only had $40k down for this last house.

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-09-09 07:32:24

He’s not breaking the law. You’re right, he just wants out of the deal. But read some of his reasoning:

‘Since his payoff amount was about $140,000, Kessler said, “Even if I sold it, I would have had to bring a lot of money to the closing table and I’m not going to risk any kind of retirement funds I have to satisfy a bank. They’ve made a ton of money off me in the 45 years that I’ve been a homeowner, and I figure the banks are a big cause for the housing meltdown anyway.’

Funny how this blame shift has a way of backfiring. Stick it to the banks, I don’t care. But I wonder how long they’ll see fit to write mortgages at 4% when prices are still falling and borrowers walk off just to move to New Mexico. And he talks about how much money he’ll save living there a year with no payments. No mention that the “banks” probably didn’t loan him the money, but rather it could be his neighbors pension plan.

Some of you think the S&P was harsh in downgrading govt debt. IMO, with the way people in this country view obligations, how big a leap is it for people to say, “to heck with paying my taxes, I figure the Chinese have it coming.”

Comment by 2banana
2011-09-09 07:57:29

Walking away from a house is just not this simple.

Collectors will be chasing him forever
Depending on the state - they could go after other assets and/or wages
Tax implications
etc.

I have said it before - a cottage industry is going to spring up to chase the people who have walked away for the rest of their lives.

 
Comment by evildocs
2011-09-09 12:54:33

I admired the S& P downgrade. Long time coming.

But this guy is just doing what the banks did. Serving his own financial needs, t’ heck with the next guy. The rules will change. They should have changed after the banks made billions playing with suicide mortgages, but, no they were bailed out. And so it goes…

 
 
Comment by Steve W
2011-09-09 08:18:44

It’s also strange that he wants to live in Santa Fe, which has “nice affordable housing”. Pretty place but always seems to be overpriced based on incomes when I’ve scoured the real estate market there.

I know prices have dropped there, too, but I have to think his rent over there is not going to be that cheap. Or if he does find something cheap he might not exactly like where he’s living.

I’ve decided this guy is a doofus.

Comment by Amy P
2011-09-09 08:45:03

Yeah, I was wondering about Santa Fe housing prices. Not familiar with the area, but it’s sort of a trendy spot, isn’t it? Plus, as a busy artist, he’ll need a fair amount of space to work in. He wouldn’t be able to squeeze himself and all his materials and finished work into a small studio apartment.

Holy cow, Santa Fe is expensive:

http://santafe.craigslist.org/apa/

I expect the bank is going to give him more than $30k in grief over this deal.

 
Comment by DennisN
2011-09-09 08:47:07

More like an irresponsible “hippie” left over from the 1960’s. He was 18 years old in 1962 and probably inhaled that entitlement mentality going around then. Notice his retirement job is making “high-end pottery and wood artisan lamps”.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-09 09:12:46

Notice his retirement job is making “high-end pottery and wood artisan lamps”.
————————————————–
Yeah…. I bet that one is real lucrative.

And WTF does “retirement” job mean? Someones making this stuff up. Media? Wall Street?

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Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 10:37:41

“Retirement job”… A low paying, part-time job that you are forced to take when you are too old for the companies with higher paying, full-time job to want you.

 
Comment by polly
2011-09-09 14:40:40

My grandfather was a civil engineer. His retirement job was teaching woodshop (to kids the Boston school system had given up on) at the school his niece ran. He liked it a lot. I don’t think he really needed the money, but I’m sure it didn’t hurt to have the extra. And he got a lot of the older kids qualified to be carpenter’s assistants when no one else would have guessed they could do anything other than pump gas or restock shelves. He had to design a special ruler to teach them how to read one properly.

He made a difference.

My parents retirement “job” (they don’t get paid) is volunteering to help other seniors figure out their Medicare issues. It gets them out and about, keeps them grateful for their own circumstances and uses up time for nothing more than the cost of gas. Quite a bargain.

Making pottery and lamps is not a low cost enterprise. Pottery studios take up space and running a kiln isn’t cheap.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-09 11:15:46

Speaking as one of those artiste types, I can tell you that you have to spend at least half of your work time seeking commissions, clients, grants, what-have-you in order to support what you’re doing. And, once you have the money lined up, you do your actual artwork.

Which reminds me: I need to get busy and pick out some images to submit to this show. The deadline’s later this month, and time’s ticking away. And, in case anyone’s interested, the opening will be on Saturday, October 8 in Downtown Tucson.

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Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-09-09 08:11:32

“‘There’s no return to normal,’ Galbraith said, referring to the mid-2000s, when an easy-money policy spurred a housing and financial services boom that collapsed under mortgage fraud and miscues.”

If you beleive the mid-2000s was normal, then there is no hope for you.

Comment by redrum
2011-09-09 08:19:37

Exactly what I was thinking. In other words, maybe we *have* returned to normal…

Comment by darrell_in_phoenix
2011-09-09 10:29:57

No, we are not in “normal”.

We are still proping up house prices by delaying foreclosures and hiding houses in shadow inventory. This is a temporary fix at best.

We are still running $500+B a year internation balance of trade deficits via new debt, even though we are quickly reaching the point of max debt.

We are propping up the financial sector by allowing entities to flat out lie about the value of assets on their balance sheet.

All the above delay actions might be justified if we were taking other actions to reverse trade imbalances, create jobs, increase wages, and undo all that we’ve done that has brought us here.

Unfortuantly, all we’re doing is more of the same that got us here. We’re delaying until… what?

Through massive government intervention, we’ve created an eye in the storm. What are we doing to prepare for the other side? Other than making the storm more powerful?

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-09-09 10:39:52

The harder you spin it, the bigger the eye. That’s a good thing, right?

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-09 11:17:14

I’ve been reading James K. Galbraith’s writing for years. I can assure you that he did not consider the previous decade to be “normal.”

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-09 08:15:46

‘You’re always going to be in a situation where people understand the value of real estate in Hawaii,’ said Benton. ‘It’s not like I’m going to be buying a house at fifty cents on the dollar - that is just not going to happen.’”

Hey a$$wipe…. the value of real estate in HI just lost another 13%.

http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/Oahu-home-prices-fall-13-1-percent-in-August/d34IIGDriUmkI7-boDsvNw.cspx

Comment by towncryer
2011-09-09 15:26:22

Its much worse than that - I’d bet that the median price does not take into account distressed sales. On Oahu the realtors have made it difficult to find sales prices openly on the internet - lots of games being played.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-09 09:39:20

“Cities won’t crumble”

Sure, that’s what they told us in Buffalo.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-09 15:51:48

“Cities won’t crumble — the complex of colleges, hospitals and government services are wellsprings of jobs, Galbraith said.”

In the 1960s the City of Buffalo succesfully lobbied to have SUNY Buffalo located outside its boundaries, so all those hippie engineering students wouldn’t trouble the Democratic machine and the business elites.

Read the book “Power Failure — Politics, Patronage and the Economic Future of Buffalo New York.” It will make you sick.

 
 
Comment by Va Beyatch in Virginia Beach
2011-09-09 10:03:52

I guess I’m one of the only commenters from Hampton Roads (Southeastern Virginia, Metro area of 1.8 million+). Yea, prices are still high compared to incomes and people are delusional. Rents seem high as well, given the incomes. But it mostly has to do with the Military. Housing allowances and all of that.

Comment by michael
2011-09-09 10:30:14

friends of mine mentioned being underwater in their house in the DC metro area a couple years ago.

they just sold it a few weeks ago and moved to hampton roads where guess what…they’re building a house.

not sure how that all worked out…maybe his new company bought his old house?

crazy how some people willy nilly jump into home ownership.

 
 
Comment by doom
2011-09-09 10:04:20

Although I don’t live in Las Vegas I have made many a visit to the town. If you like that kind of life style then I suggest that you don’t listen to the so called experts who say it will never come back so don’t move there.
Go there now (pronto) search out the area that suits your pocket book and steal a nice home. Vegas like l said is not for everybody but to tell you the truth no place is for everybody.
Many years ago people never considered New York and Denver these were a dead towns and my brother (God bless his soul) bought property in the 60’s and made a fortune.
If you have saved money then please look to the future because the market will come back in solid retirements areas.
AARP tells you to look at Portland Maine or Tulsa OK.??? now tell me do you really want to wake up in Maine or Okla when the the housing market comes back.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-09-09 10:42:32

Good point if you love Vegas or Phoenix. The places I’d like to be still need to fall before they can come back.

Comment by doom
2011-09-09 11:12:25

Yes Carl by all means, if your location needs to drop further then wait because the market still needs to correct more in many areas of the country and the shadow inventory will drop prices.

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-10 06:25:35

I have a bulletin for you-

The “housing market” isn’t going to “come back” as you characterize it. Oh yes…. it will come back…. waaaaaay back to 1980’s levels.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-09 11:21:45

From the original post:

“But with the sagging housing market, all that equity has dried up. Kessler’s home is now worth just $111,000. ‘I found out about the process of walking away and how it would affect my credit,’ he says. ‘I also found out that big businesses and smart investors have been doing this for years, so emotionally I don’t feel bad about this at all. I don’t think I’ll ever buy another house again. I like the feeling of not having that mortgage hanging over my head.’”

To which I say:

If you’re in the housing industry, this is not good news. Because people who are turned off to owning houses tend to tell friends, family, anyone whose ear they can bend.

And I’m old enough to hear similar stories about the stock market from older people who went through the Great Depression. In a word, they didn’t trust the stock market further than they could swing a bull by the tail.

To young ‘uns like me, those stories were very powerful. And I think that’s why, in the 1980s, there was quite a massive PR campaign to get people of my age to trust the stock market again. The PR folks were having to overcome all the negative messages that we’d gotten from parents, grandparents, etc.

Comment by doom
2011-09-09 12:07:58

True AZ Slim, horror stories of this housing mess and stocks will linger for a very long time. That said, I still feel that if prices continue to drop to a level where most can be comfortable in their decision then owning a home without a landlord over your head, the threat of raised rent and moving quite often, along with less then desirable renters, owning a home should still be the goal.

If the housing market doesn’t correct to levels of afforable then of course all bets off and the Americam dream of ownership will still belong to the rich and famous and the big banks well ” let them eat cake”?

 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-09 19:22:27

“massive PR campaign ”

You mean the massive forced march toward 401K. The PR was when they screamed “You are the master of your universe! You can do better with your own money than the government!” as they whipped you along.

 
 
Comment by JoJo
2011-09-09 12:43:06

“Bruce Yandle, an economist at Virginia’s George Mason University, agrees. The country faces a parched era until families work off debts and can afford new houses again. Three million excess houses in U.S. cities sit unsold, Yandle said, while the poor job market frustrates young adults doubling up or living with relatives. ”

He doesn’t mention that the housing built during the bubble was gigantic McMansion and/or luxury condos with travertine tile, granite countertops, etc. instead of starter homes. Of course young adults can’t afford to buy them.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-09 14:30:36

We’ve had a number of young adults move into this area. To a man and woman, they have the sense of adventure and willingness to learn that’s required when faced with the job of fixing up 50-year-old houses. Over time, they’ve taken some run-down properties and fixed ‘em up quite nicely.

 
 
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