September 12, 2011

Still Trying To Hold Onto The Prices They Paid

The Montgomery Advertiser reports from Alabama. “Houses priced at $500,000 and higher only make up about 1.5 percent of Mont­gomery’s — and all of Alaba­ma’s — housing market, said Grayson Glaze, executive di­rector of the Alabama Cen­ter for Real Estate at the University of Alabama. Na­tionwide, they’re 10 percent of the market. ‘Alabama and Montgom­ery demographics point to a very small and finite seg­ment of the population with the necessary income to qualify for a purchase of $500,000 or more,’ Glaze said in an email. ‘For sellers at these price points in a challenging market, the pro­verbial ‘needle in the hay­stack’ comes to mind when identifying qualified buyers.’”

“Jimmy Sellars’ two-story, 4,500-square-foot home with four bedrooms and five bathrooms sits on about 14 acres in south Montgomery County. Sellars’ home has been on the market at its current asking price since April. Real estate agent Jane Albright said they had listed it at a higher one last year. In the past 12 months, only about 14 homes above $500,000 have sold in the Montgomery area, said Albright.”

“In 2008, that number was closer to 50 homes, she said. In 2005, it was about 70. Sellars, who owns two other properties in the area, doesn’t want to take this home off the market again for fear of missing the buyer he’s waiting for. ‘There is always the possi­bility that someone will come to town looking for a house just like this,’ Sellars said.”

The Huntsville Times in Alabama. “Past the entrance of The Reserve subdivision is one of the local real-estate shrines to BRAC, perhaps the most obvious example of the anticipated impact of the 2005 base realignment and closure on the Huntsville housing market. The development of the area was strongly influenced by BRAC, said Oscar Gonzales, the CEO of the Huntsville Area Association of Realtors.”

“Confidence in the Huntsville real estate market was soaring when the 2005 BRAC was announced. Sales of new and existing homes in Huntsville and Madison were 5,537, a record, in 2004. It was the third consecutive year of record-setting home sales. In a Nov. 27, 2005 story in The Huntsville Times, Dr. Leonard Zumpano, director of the University of Alabama’s Alabama Research and Education Center, said, ‘I think Huntsville’s pretty much bulletproof.’”

“But Gonzales does not believe there was overspeculation about the impact of BRAC. ‘You had the anticipation of influx of people and growth,’ he said. ‘But it came on the heels of (an) economic downturn. It brought so many variables together that caused it to fall. No one predicted the bubble would pop the way it did.’”

“There is little doubt, though, that BRAC could still have an effect in the neighborhood, in Gonzales’ view. ‘We’re still building,’ he said.”

The St Petersburg Times in Florida. “Hit with unexpected funeral bills and escalating payments, Danny and Brenda Berry fell behind on the mortgage on their Clearwater home. Deutsche Bank got a final judgment in January 2010 but canceled two public auctions for reasons that included improperly notarized loan documents. The bank took back the house at an auction last April but quickly got a court order to vacate the sale, claiming it had worked out a loan modification.”

“Berry says nothing was worked out. The house remains his responsibility even though he and his wife moved out a few months ago because they can’t afford to fix the leaky roof. ‘It’s still a burden on me,’ says Berry, who took Friday off to try to find someone to mow the knee-high grass.”

“James Selvey, president of the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, notes that it typically costs a bank $35,000 to $40,000 to take title to a property. ‘So consequently they’re not taking ownership; (the houses) are just sitting there,’ he says. ‘As the inventory dries up, it does cause demand and prices to rise and then the banks will shove a few more homes into the market.”’

The Herald Tribune in Florida. “Practically every neighborhood has one of those abandoned and increasingly derelict houses that teenagers like to throw stones at or dare each other to spend a night inside of. Even the Landings, that gated and well-manicured, high-end subdivision south of Sarasota, has one. Since the former owners, Deane and Cheryl True, moved out three years ago after defaulting on $790,000 in loans, the Landings Homeowners Association has spent more than $3,000 to keep the bushes trimmed and the lawn mowed.”

“Reached at the credit union he now works for in North Carolina, Deane True said he received several short-sale offers for the house after moving out three years ago. One was for $350,000 from a neighbor, and another higher offer came in from a local real estate agent. But the bank was not tempted, True said. In the meantime, True filed for bankruptcy protection and was eventually absolved of his $790,000 in mortgages and $125,000 in credit-card debt.”

“‘We left in the summer of 2008,’ said True, who lost his job as a lender at Fifth Third Bank in Sarasota that same year. ‘The music stopped and there were no chairs left. I needed to find another job to take care of my family, so I bailed.’”

“Since 2008 Lisa Cece has gone through a divorce, taken two pay cuts in her job as an administrative specialist, and filed for bankruptcy to deal with her marital debt. As part of the bankruptcy proceedings, Cece reaffirmed her commitment to her first and second mortgages. Now Cece is upside-down in a home she can no longer afford, having engaged in months — no, years — of difficult negotiations with the holders of the two loans on the property. She’s about to give up.”

“‘I don’t want to walk away and leave the house empty. I want to do the responsible thing, but I’m not getting anywhere,’ said Cece. In spring 2010, she consulted a real estate attorney, who advised her to stop paying both mortgages. Cece said she made payments throughout the summer until finally it dawned on her that ‘there was no way I was going to make it long-term and be able to provide for my child.’”

“The house that cost $235,000 seven years ago is now worth $145,000. The good news is that Cece has a willing short-sale buyer (an investor), and GMAC appears ready to sign the deal. The bad news is that, so far, USAA is unresponsive. Her real estate agent, Frank St. Pierre of Coldwell Banker, understands Cece’s plight but is not without sympathy for USAA. ‘They’re negotiating very hard, it’s true, but I’d be hard-pressed to say that’s inappropriate,’ said St. Pierre, referring to the short sale. ‘I’d like for it to go as smooth as silk, but the reality is they’re owed money and they want it.’”

The News Press in Florida. “Southwest Florida’s high-end home-building industry is gradually coming back to life - buoyed by cautious buyers drawn to the golf courses and tennis courts of luxury communities at today’s bargain construction costs. In large part, the industry’s new-found health is due to the low land, labor and materials costs that come with lean times, said Stephen Wilson, CFO of Naples-based London Bay Homes.. ‘Our prices are as competitive as they’ve ever been, 60-65 percent for the price of materials - and labor has come down enormously.’”

“Now, Wilson said, ‘The problem we’re running into is that people aren’t able to sell their home up North’ to pay for the new one.”

The Citizen Times in North Carolina. “This is a great time to be buying a home in Henderson County and a tough time to try to sell one. Statistics and some local experts say the local market is still heavily tilted in buyers’ favor, with the result that sellers often have to cut their prices dramatically in order to make a sale.”

“Steve Dozier is a broker in the Hendersonville office of Prudential Lifestyle Realty who analyzes market trends for the company. Dozier found that even homes that sold in three months or less from July 2010 to June 2011 sold for only 94 percent of their original list price. The ‘original list to sale’ ratio for homes that took longer to sell ranged from 92.6 percent from homes on the market for three to six months to 71.1 percent for those listed more than a year before their sale.”

“Those selling a home ‘are still trying to hold onto the prices they paid in 2006, 2005,’ Dozier said. But as time passes without a sale, they are realizing that, ‘If you don’t price it right, you might as well plan on sitting on it for a while.’”

“In fact, for potential sellers who bought at the peak of the market, ‘I’m telling them to ride it out for another year’ if they can afford to wait to sell their home, he said. Buyers, Dozier said, are ‘bottom feeding. … They’re thinking that everything should be selling for the same thing that a bank-owned property or a foreclosure would sell for.’”

“Glenn Compton, an owner-broker at the Hendersonville office of Century 21 Mountain Lifestyles Realty, acknowledged that the relatively large number of homes on the market does allow buyers to be picky. When larger manufacturers shut down, top managers who could afford more expensive homes have to move and ‘most of the retirees, they don’t want to clean those big homes,’ he said.”

“Compton said brokers at his agency have contact with ‘two or three dozen buyers from out of the area that can’t sell their homes but would like to have one here.’”

“Retirees have traditionally made up a large percentage of homebuyers in Henderson County. Renewed strength in the stock market during the first half of 2011 encouraged some retirees to jump back into the housing market, Compton said, but that is not a uniform trend. ‘The retirees that are coming are coming in from the Northeast mainly. There are not a lot of Florida people, really,’ he said.”




RSS feed

32 Comments »

Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:20:38

‘There is always the possi­bility that someone will come to town looking for a house just like this,’ Sellars said.”

Who either has $500,000 cash in the bank or has a $200,000/year job waiting for him in Alabama - with no house to sell from where he/she is coming from.

Happens ALL the time…

 
Comment by DennisN
2011-09-12 07:22:51

James Selvey, president of the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, notes that it typically costs a bank $35,000 to $40,000 to take title to a property.

I’ve long suspected this but it’s nice to see actual figures quoted from someone who may know. It still puzzles me why a bank would bauk at a short sale then take the hit to take over a property as a REO. You would think they would only do this if they thought they could get another $40K+ for the REO vs. the short sale. But it’s usually the other way around.

A friend of mine went BK. His house in Denver was put up for short sale last December, and he got a buyer at $450K. The bank wouldn’t go for it. The house finally went back to the bank this summer, and the bank put the REO up for $375K. What was that all about? It sounds like the bank will be out-of-pocket over $100K by preventing the short sale.

Comment by Montana
2011-09-12 09:52:54

Must be two different depts handling it, the Dept of Just Say No handling the first bit and the Dept of Desperation handling the second.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-09-12 13:59:48

“Dept of Just Say No”

My theory is that the short-sale went through the Dept of Trying to Get the Debtor to Pony Up Some Cash.

That apparently failed in this case, but I would bet that they reduce their losses in some percentage o cases via such an attempt.

 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:23:51

“Berry says nothing was worked out. The house remains his responsibility even though he and his wife moved out a few months ago because they can’t afford to fix the leaky roof. ‘It’s still a burden on me,’ says Berry, who took Friday off to try to find someone to mow the knee-high grass.”

Huh?

Took off a Friday to FIND someone to cut the grass?

Fixing a leaky roof (short term) = tube of caulk

There is so much more to this story.

Comment by palmetto
2011-09-12 10:59:38

“The bank took back the house at an auction last April but quickly got a court order to vacate the sale, claiming it had worked out a loan modification.

Berry says nothing was worked out. The house remains his responsibility even though he and his wife moved out a few months ago because they can’t afford to fix the leaky roof. ‘It’s still a burden on me,’ says Berry, who took Friday off to try to find someone to mow the knee-high grass.”

A complete cluster-fark. There oughta be a law…but there isn’t, apparently.

These are the things that make me sneer at what laughingly passes for “the law” in the US. If it weren’t for all these machinations and chicanery, we might have bottomed by now.

 
Comment by DennisN
2011-09-12 13:55:42

Unexpected funeral bills? Just have them cremated and put the cremains in a box on your shelf until you get the funds together. It’s not like the departed will care.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:26:07

True filed for bankruptcy protection and was eventually absolved of his $790,000 in mortgages and $125,000 in credit-card debt.”

“‘We left in the summer of 2008,’ said True, who lost his job as a lender at Fifth Third Bank in Sarasota that same year. ‘The music stopped and there were no chairs left. I needed to find another job to take care of my family, so I bailed.’”

The only real way out - and now True can start with a fresh slate.

I hope he learned a lesson about being almost $1 million in debt and now lives within his means…

Comment by CA renter
2011-09-13 02:39:56

Amen, banana!

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:31:49

and filed for bankruptcy to deal with her marital debt. As part of the bankruptcy proceedings, Cece reaffirmed her commitment to her first and second mortgages.

Why would she do that?

To live in a house that you can’t afford for a few more years?

Now you are broke and can NOT declare bankruptcy again (for many years).

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:33:20

“The house that cost $235,000 seven years ago is now worth $145,000. The good news is that Cece has a willing short-sale buyer (an investor), and GMAC appears ready to sign the deal. The bad news is that, so far, USAA is unresponsive. Her real estate agent, Frank St. Pierre of Coldwell Banker, understands Cece’s plight but is not without sympathy for USAA. ‘They’re negotiating very hard, it’s true, but I’d be hard-pressed to say that’s inappropriate,’ said St. Pierre, referring to the short sale. ‘I’d like for it to go as smooth as silk, but the reality is they’re owed money and they want it.’”

Or the reality is GMAC got bailed out by obama with billions in taxpayer money and USAA did not…

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-12 07:35:31

Renewed strength in the stock market during the first half of 2011 encouraged some retirees to jump back into the housing market,

“Disaster” meet “will happen soon”

 
Comment by Insurance Guy
2011-09-12 08:17:20

The guy named Dozier is advising clients to hold out another year. That is why home prices are only decreasing slowly instead of just crashing. And of course another year of insurance and taxes and maintenance on a house that will not be increasing in value.

 
Comment by Steve J
2011-09-12 08:35:07

“Compton said brokers at his agency have contact with ‘two or three dozen buyers from out of the area that can’t sell their homes but would like to have one here.’”

======================

That’s not going to be changing anytime soon.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2011-09-12 09:11:22

Palmetto, I read here over the weekend that, like many a Tampa resident, you harbor interest in western North Carolina. I’ve never been, but I’ve heard from people who have that in the summertime Asheville is buzzing with cars bearing Hillsborough County license plates.

During the bubble north Georgia was being marketed as the “next” western North Carolina.

We have to ask ourselves about the future of second-home enclaves lacking well-paying jobs. I was recently in Bend, Oregon, and asked someone from there what the local economy was based on. She laughed. The Asheville of the future might look a lot like the Asheville of the past.

Comment by Insurance Guy
2011-09-12 10:30:46

You are correct. There are retirees who have a cabin in the mountains of Western North Carolina and then a condo in Florida. The price appreciate was very good in both until the bubble popped.

There is no industry that I am aware of in Asheville or Hendersonville. There is industry in Spartanburg and Greenville across the border.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-12 10:32:47

There is no industry that I am aware of in Asheville or Hendersonville. There is industry in Spartanburg and Greenville across the border.

Back in the 1990s, my parents and I visited Asheville. ISTR my mother asking, “What do people DO here?”

Comment by palmetto
2011-09-12 11:17:14

“What do people DO here?”

From my lurking at the Western North Carolina City Date forum, the main employers are tourism, health care and education/government. There are a certain amount of “green” and alternative life-style jobs (New Age type stuff). Art galleries. Organic food. Some agriculture. Local retail and services. The stinky paper mill in Canton. There are a few manufacturing plants ramping up here and there. There are hippies and “trustafarians” who hang out.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by wolfgirl
2011-09-12 10:52:52

Several years ago I met someone who lived in Maggie Valley,NC and drover to Greer, SC to work at BMW. I thought he was insane.

Comment by palmetto
2011-09-12 11:01:44

My post hasn’t shown up yet, but the place to be, if you need to have a job, is somewhere equidistant to Greenville and Asheville. And hopefully with a little elevation to catch the cooler breezes during the summer.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2011-09-12 10:38:46

“you harbor interest in western North Carolina.”

I do. My interest is in the weather, mainly. If the power should ever go out here in Fla for an extended period of time during the summer, I don’t want to be gasping for air like a fish out of water. I admit, the six months of relentless heat is starting to get to me.

“During the bubble north Georgia was being marketed as the “next” western North Carolina.”

It still is. I’m constantly trolling the Asheville area Craigslist RE ads (mostly rentals) and some RE folks from North Georgia are constantly sticking ads in there for their property saying things like “mountains just as high”.

“We have to ask ourselves about the future of second-home enclaves lacking well-paying jobs. I was recently in Bend, Oregon, and asked someone from there what the local economy was based on. She laughed.”

For anyone looking to re-locate, I highly recommend a master website called “City Data Forum”, under which you can find a sub-forum for just about any area of the country. I lurk at the Western North Carolina forum. It is highly interesting and informative, as you can get perspectives from locals, potential transplants, recent transplants, people who re-located and didn’t make it, people who re-located successfully, natives who moved away, some of whom are glad they did, some of whom are pining for their former home. I would imagine many of the sub-forums are the same.

There’s lots of local information posted, recommendations on places to stay or not stay, recreation opportunities, lifestyles, etc. Speaking of Bend, Oregon, there seems to be quite a bit of interest from West Coasters in relocating to the Asheville area. Interestingly, Bend and Asheville sound very similar in many respects.

One thing I’ve learned, the jobs market in Asheville and Western North Carolina in general pretty much bites the big one. However, as Bill in Carolina will tell you, there IS opportunity in Greenville, SC. Hence, those who enjoy Western NC for living and Greenville SC for working, will try to find a spot in between Asheville and Greenville to live.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2011-09-12 15:35:53

“I admit, the six months of relentless heat is starting to get to me.”
Move to northwestern North Carolina, and the six months of relentless cold would probably start to get to you, too!

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2011-09-12 11:10:18

“This is a great time to be buying a home in Henderson County and a tough time to try to sell one. Statistics and some local experts say the local market is still heavily tilted in buyers’ favor, with the result that sellers often have to cut their prices dramatically in order to make a sale.”

That may be true, but in looking at list prices in the area, I’m not really impressed. List prices in Western NC seem to be awfully stubborn, but that’s just looking at them over the internet, not on the ground. As I mentioned in another thread, I’m sort of bemused by the prices there in comparison to the prices here in West Central Florida. Also, there’s living expenses. Utilities are a bit more expensive up there than down here, although if you’re smart you can keep it down. You have to be careful with the heat pump thing, since heat pumps are not always effective during the winters there.

Anyway, my point, and I do have one, is that it would seem there is a lot more capitulation here in the Tampa Bay area than there is in Western North Carolina.

Palmy again didn’t make it this summer. Life keeps intervening.

Comment by Insurance Guy
2011-09-12 12:00:04

I have watched the price drop in both also and the drop in Western North Carolina has been less than Florida. But prices are still dropping so it will end up in the same place over time. My guess is that Florida had more banks go under and that caused an immense number of auctions and such. The banks up here are in massive trouble but they are not going under as yet.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-12 13:31:28

‘As the inventory dries up, it does cause demand and prices to rise and then the banks will shove a few more homes into the market.’

Is anyone interested in buying an overpriced, dilapidated dump?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-12 13:55:03

Is anyone interested in buying an overpriced, dilapidated dump?

Apparently not. There are more than a few of them on the market here in Tucson.

And, to be honest, let’s just say that they’re not flying off the shelves.

 
 
Comment by SOLD IN 04
2011-09-12 14:19:34

Vanderbilt built his mansion in Asheville, he could have picked anywhere in the USA. That being said Asheville is a beautiful place to live,just bring money from somewhere else and life will be grand…

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-09-12 15:07:25

That’s the feeling I got in rural Poland a few weeks ago, too.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-09-12 14:38:13

“James Selvey, president of the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, notes that it typically costs a bank $35,000 to $40,000 to take title to a property. ‘So consequently they’re not taking ownership; (the houses) are just sitting there,’ he says. ‘As the inventory dries up, it does cause demand and prices to rise and then the banks will shove a few more homes into the market.”’

CNNMoney.com
Obama’s housing scorecard
Friday September 9, 12:24 pm ET
By Les Christie

During his speech before Congress Thursday night, President Obama briefly referenced an initiative to help rescue the troubled housing market.

“To help responsible homeowners we’re going to work with Federal housing agencies to help more people refinance their mortgages at interest rates that are now near 4% - a step that can put more than $2,000 a year in a family’s pocket, and give a lift to an economy still burdened by the drop in housing prices,” he said.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-12 17:30:39

“To help responsible homeowners we’re going to work with Federal housing agencies to help more people refinance their mortgages at interest rates that are now near 4% - a step that can put more than $2,000 a year in a family’s pocket, and give a lift to an economy still burdened by the drop in housing prices,” he said.

Way to go, Barack. Lower the interest on the mortgage of an underwater house. That’ll really help things.

Whoopee-doo.

Comment by doom
2011-09-13 10:44:33

My wife and I paid cash for our home I would say the president owes a check back to us since our home is down 40% because of the losers.
Stop the nonsense that the investors and buyers of homes who never could afford them get a helping hand?

 
 
 
Comment by doom
2011-09-13 10:38:55

Love the homeowners dateline Denver

Home bought $7 million now on the market for $8.9 and they wonder why it hasn’t sold.

People we are in a housing derpession if you haven’t heard, your mansion is now worth about $3 to $3.5 million if you can find someone who actually has money?

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post