September 20, 2011

Bits Bucket for September 20, 2011

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




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341 Comments »

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 04:51:38

Last night while listening to the news it was reported that Cuomo will ask if NY victims of Hurricane Irene flooding will be allowed to stay in foreclosures.

Glad to help them out but how convenient for keeping that long lost NY shadow inventory off the books for years longer.

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 05:13:35

Was there even any actual flooding in NY? I don’t seem to recall seeing any and lord knows they covered the storm -damage +ad-nauseum.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 05:43:07

You’re kidding right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/nyregion/ny-region-in-triage-mode-as-flooding-persists.html

The Binghamton area got majorly smacked.

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 06:07:31

Ok. That’s what, like 7 houses?

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 14:53:46

some people come to the blog w/this in mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

:)

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 20:53:50

:)

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 23:42:15

No they don’t….

 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 07:23:32

“Was there even any actual flooding in NY”

Yes, major flooding in towns along the river banks.

The storm stalled and dumped a major load. Seneca Lake, the Mother of the Finger Lakes, rose two feet overnight. Lucky for me, my house floats. The college guys say it would take 400 years to fill this lake. it would only take a month with steady weather like that.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:22:44

How many houses are involved?

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 05:57:49

Who is going to pay to get the homes livable? Pay to turn the utilities on? Pay the unpaid taxes? Pay the unpaid HOA fees? Pay to get the furnace working? What happens when the dishwasher stops working? Who is going to pay for the damage the new tenants cause? Etc.

Oh - the taxpayers of NY again…

It just never ends.

 
Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 07:22:02

“Glad to help them out but how convenient for keeping that long lost NY shadow inventory off the books for years longer.”

Heck, if there is excess housing upstate, it might make sense to just tear the buildings down.

There are some places where it just makes sense to gradually replace houses near the rivers with houses on higher ground. Not so easy in densly populated NJ, but entirely possible upstate.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 07:33:31

We never dealt with the excessive houses from the last bubble. They’re a century old now. I don’t think the ones built this round will need to be torn down, just give them time and they will mostly self correct.

Before the 70s, houses didn’t get built in the NJ flood plains. There was and still is plenty of high ground to build on. It was obvious to everyone that these McMansions being built along the river banks were an exercise in stupidity. We just thought there were a few stupid individuals, not realizing it was the advance guard of a national mania.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 04:51:45

Builders Likely Started Fewer U.S. Houses
By Alex Kowalski - Sep 20, 2011 (Source: Bloomberg)

Builders probably began work on fewer homes in August, highlighting an industry that’s languishing more than two years into the U.S. economic recovery, economists said before a report today.

Housing starts fell 2.3 percent to a three-month low 590,000 annual rate, according to the median estimate of 78 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. Building permits, a proxy for future construction, may have also dropped for a second month.

Foreclosures, declining prices and a lack of employment are hindering construction and holding back an industry that’s typically helped spark economic rebounds from past recessions. Tighter lending standards and reductions in homeowner equity mean fewer buyers are able to take advantage of mortgage rates at record lows.

“We have more homes than people need to live in,” John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics LLC in New York, said in a Sept. 16 interview on Bloomberg Television. “Housing is going to be pretty depressed in terms of building activity and pretty flat in terms of prices until that market clears.”

The Commerce Department’s report is due at 8:30 a.m. in Washington. Survey estimates ranged from 570,000 to 634,000.

Permits decreased to a 590,000 annual pace from a 601,000 rate, according to the survey median.

Concern over housing and this year’s growth slowdown economy may prompt Federal Reserve policy makers to propose new measures to galvanize the economy when they begin their two-day meeting later today.

Bernanke’s View

Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke warned last month during a speech in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, that the central bank alone can’t lift sagging home prices or mitigate a wave of home foreclosures.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:11:57

“We have more homes than people need to live in,”

We went on a debt binge. Bought stuff we not only couldn’t pay for, we didn’t need. The extra houses (and yachts, bikes, cars, furniture, bling) are just the left over evidence. The real problem is the debt.

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 05:17:00

Don’t you worry about the debt. They are working on it. Just don’t stop spending whatever you do. (isn’t that what the gov is basically telling us?)

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:25:38

The real problems are that the debt is underwater when compared to the collapsed value of the collateral whose purchase it funded, and that in many cases, the debt is unrepayable out of the owner’s permanent income.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:28:47

But the debt was supposed to make everybody rich!

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Comment by Al
2011-09-20 06:23:37

replace ‘everybody’ with ‘executives’, then you’ve got it right.

 
 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2011-09-20 08:44:38

“Bought stuff we not only couldn’t pay for, we didn’t need. The … bikes… are just the left over evidence. The real problem is the debt.”

I know. I’m still making payments on my two bicycles. Yeah, right! Bwahahahahaha!

And the gas money that I bleed (and our troops bleed for)? $0 a week is just too steep!

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 09:29:03

Social misfit!

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Comment by MrBubble
2011-09-20 10:20:25

I resemble that remark. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. :)

Wait a sec! That’s coming from a guy who lives on a boat? Blue Skye = Jack Sparrow. Or is it the Dread Pirate Roberts?

Noooo surviveursssss! [My boy loves when I do the Andre the Giant voice].

 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:29:37

Chart: NAHB/Wells Fargo HMI and Single-Family Housing Starts

This chart shows the HMI and SF Housing starts in a graph.
9/19/2011

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:15:05

Sept. 20, 2011, 8:55 a.m. EDT
Construction of new U.S. homes falls 5%
Data show builders had a difficult August, although permits rise
By Jeffry Bartash, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Builders started construction on fewer new homes in August, government data showed Tuesday, underscoring how the depressed U.S. real estate market shows little sign of recovering.

Housing starts fell 5% to an annual rate of 571,000 last month, compared with a downwardly revised 601,000 in July, the Commerce Department said.

Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had expected housing starts to fall to 590,000 on a seasonally adjusted basis.

In the housing report’s only bright spot, permits for new construction actually rose 3.2% to an annual rate of 620,000, marking the highest level since January. Permits give an indication of whether demand for new homes is growing or slowing.

Also, single-family permits climbed 2.5% to 413,000, the best showing since December.

Yet the residential construction industry remains mired in its worst slump in modern times: New homes are selling at about half the rate as would be the case in a healthy housing market.

Among the factors depressing sales are a persistenly high jobless rate, a flood of foreclosures and the difficulty that both builders and prospective buyers face in trying to get financing from cautious lenders.

Buyers can also get a much lower price by choosing a previously owned home.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-09-20 06:45:34

“Housing starts fell 5% to an annual rate of 571,000 last month, compared with a downwardly revised 601,000 in July, the Commerce Department said.

“Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had expected housing starts to fall to 590,000 on a seasonally adjusted basis.”

571K vs expected 590K. How ’bout that, the economists got a prediction right for a change. That moves their batting average up to what- .086?

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 09:20:09

My electrican brother got laid off, but now he is worried.

He was working for a company that demos offices and he rewires them for new tenants

He hasnt been hurt too badly, lots of business downsized say from 20k sq ft to 10k, and needed the 10k to be move in ready for a sublease.

but not much work looking foward……

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Comment by Montana
2011-09-20 09:27:02

And all I hear from our leaders is how we have to get house prices up again..

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 10:59:06

Sounds like our leaders are having problems getting something else to go up. But hey, that’s just me.

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Comment by BlueStar
2011-09-20 06:27:50

August home building fell 5 pct., slide continues as August came out at 571K annual rate compared to 590K expected.

This is the proper response from the builders. It might get down to less than 300K eventually.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:10:15

Why do they allow bullcrap articles like this?

“Likely?” “Estimate?” More like “pulled-out-of-my-posterior-so-my-masters-can-game-the-market.”

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 04:58:07

The second home market.

This home is in/near the Adirondack park which means prohibitively far away from most jobs/culture especially since it’s located w/in the snow belt. $550k probably seemed like a deal when he built it.

http://cnyhomes.com/Listing/Search/info.cgi?mlnum=S260673

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:22:55

A deal in his own mind. The tax man thinks it’s only worth $200K. Cottage country spoiled is my opinion.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 05:58:30

My fil’s father built a 3 room place on an Adirondack lake in the early 50s. It eventually became my fil’s but he sold it in the 80s because w/the number of giant Adirondack palaces being built around him it just didn’t seem the same. To be fair, if you took a long view there really was an ebb and flow of new wealth/old wealth going on in the area as their little 3 roomer laid in the shadow of another expansive estate which had been built about 70 years before theirs.

It’s interesting to note the self important wealth newbies never take heed of the stories (warnings?) the former glorious but now deteriorating structures have to offer. Their message grows more and more silent as nature reclaims their lands.

Comment by Montana
2011-09-20 09:30:11

We have a lot of lakes an hour or so away, and I envy the old working stiffs who built modest cabins on some of the more remote lakes decades ago. They are looking pretty smart now, and were not living high on the hog by any means.

I think the crash spared them from being crowded out by new palaces…let’s hope.

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Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 05:28:59

It’s a nice-looking place but it must be a job just to keep up with the lawn and the maintenance, especially if you have to winterize it every year. Not worth it for a second home.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:59:36

An aspect of the housing bubble up here was the trend towards the Year Round Home rather than the Seasonal Cottage. Year round doesn’t make a lot of sense in a area with no jobs and an inhospitable winter, unless you are retired. If you are retired, dealing with 10 feet of snow 40 miles from a town doesn’t make any sense. Dealing with a three acre lawn doesn’t make any sense. It is simply a flipper’s economy. These white elephants will stick out like a sore thumb for decades.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 06:26:16

Well stated Blue.

Folks, It’s not that their is high unemployment and high property taxes in upstate. There is NO employment. Not at Mickey Dees, Not at 7-11, not slinging hash at the diner…..they don’t exist anymore. They packed up and left years ago.

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Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 06:03:04

Taxes on this house in the middle of NOWHERE - upstate NY is $5,700/year.

Add in utilities, maintenance, insurance, etc and you are at least at $12,000/year before you even drive to take a vacation there.

I can think of alot of places to visit in the world and stay at 1st class hotels for $12,000/year for vacation.

PS - Yes - 5,700/year in taxes for house in the middle of nowhere. Yes - NYS has very strong public unions that control the state. And yes – they tax the hell out of homeowners to pay the public union contracts.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-09-20 06:48:29

Yes, but like Florida, NY doesn’t have a state income tax.

Oh, wait.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 07:24:56

Retired public employees are exempt from the NYS income tax. Other retirees have a substantial exemption.

Goverment of, by and for the seniors. With the exception of NYC, everyone else is moving away.

Where the U.S. is going, NY has already arrived.

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Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 08:01:54

Goverment of, by and for the seniors

From your statement - it looks like Goverment of, by and for the public employees…

 
Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 14:53:26

Compared to how many trillions to Wall St, welfare?

 
 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 16:46:16

Banana,

What you said is true. It is fact.

 
 
Comment by rms
2011-09-20 07:14:41

Gotta wonder if these remote “Eddie Bauer” ranches are safe from home invasion and/or theft. Several large hungry dogs would have to go along with the riding lawn mower purchase.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 11:01:51

A couple of years ago, when I was visiting my aunt in VT, we took a day trip to Burlington. Across the lake (Champlain) is a very formidable mountain range. That would be the Adirondaks.

ISTR hearing that the Adirondaks are still one of the least populated parts of the United States. Very few roads up there. And long, cold winters. Would be a challenge to keep a house going, unless you’re very well off.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 16:57:41

Brutal is not the word. On the east side where I grew up is where the Canadian winds blow down the Champlain Valley separating the Adks and Green Mtn’s. There is no colder area of the Adks.

 
 
 
Comment by Lenderoflastresort
2011-09-20 05:01:03

Almost makes you wish your house was in foreclosure! Free rent! :)

BTW, what happened to Professor Bear, AKA Get Stucco? Haven’t seen him around in a while. Did I miss something?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 05:07:15

He’s flipping houses now.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:05:38

In my next life, during the next bubble.

Jim knowed all kinds of signs. He said he knowed most everything. I said it looked to me like all the signs was about bad luck, and so I asked him if there warn’t any good-luck signs. He says:

“Mighty few — an’ DEY ain’t no use to a body. What you want to know when good luck’s a-comin’ for? Want to keep it off?” And he said: “Ef you’s got hairy arms en a hairy breas’, it’s a sign dat you’s agwyne to be rich. Well, dey’s some use in a sign like dat, ‘kase it’s so fur ahead. You see, maybe you’s got to be po’ a long time fust, en so you might git discourage’ en kill yo’sef ‘f you didn’ know by de sign dat you gwyne to be rich bymeby.”

“Have you got hairy arms and a hairy breast, Jim?”

“What’s de use to ax dat question? Don’t you see I has?”

“Well, are you rich?”

“No, but I ben rich wunst, and gwyne to be rich agin.”

Huckleberry Finn — Mark Twain

Comment by Montana
2011-09-20 09:33:16

I gwyne to read that some day.

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Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 05:14:50

“Did I miss something?”

Yes, you missed the name change. PB is now Catankerous Intellectural Bomb Thrower, CBIT for short. And he’s posting quite a bit.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:15:29

Last time he posted, he told us that the bottom was in, rent will NEVER go down and all Republicans are trolls. We miss him.

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 05:18:06

I think he got banned like his friend Eddie.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:06:40

I’m not debt yet.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 08:37:02

Green Shoots forever! ;-)

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Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 09:41:33

you can always refudidate your debt.

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Comment by CA renter
2011-09-20 13:44:31

LOL!! It’s funny that so many people don’t realize our “Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower” is PB. :)

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 20:55:35

Its even funnier you thought we were serious.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:58:40

“Did I miss something?”

Yes.

 
 
Comment by frankie
2011-09-20 05:02:41

Another day, another downgrade

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/09/20/general-eu-italy-financial-crisis_8689415.html

Italy criticized Standard & Poor’s on Tuesday for downgrading its credit rating, saying the decision seemed politically motivated and out of touch with reality at a time when the government was working to boost growth and reduce its debts.

Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 05:16:04

I just wish Greece would default and get it over with already.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 05:27:12

Like a lot of things we are watching, it’s a slow slow slow motion crash. You would think this time freeze would give most a chance to get out of the way.

Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 05:37:08

“slow slow slow motion crash.”

Yeah, so the traders can keep trading the same 500 points up and down. “They’re gonna default!” 500 down. “No, wait, European ministers have worked out a deal!” 500 up.
“The Oracle at Delphi has a hangnail” 500 down. “The Orifice from Omaha put $2 billion into Greece!” 500 up!

Jeebus, get the danged thing over with already.

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Comment by rms
2011-09-20 07:19:07

“Yeah, so the traders can keep trading the same 500 points up and down.”

+1 Milk that cash cow.

 
Comment by michael
2011-09-20 08:05:03

orifice from omaha…lol.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 09:03:54

wish I could take credit for that, but Guy Somerset has an article at Takimag with that exact title.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-09-20 06:01:29

Last night the Nightly news w/Diane Sawyer quoted some muckity muck who was telling us the Greek default was inevitable. I pretty much took this as the shoeshine boy moment. Shouldn’t be long now.

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Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 07:07:41

“Greek default was inevitable.”

Yep. But the suspense is killing me. Jeebus, wish they’d do it now, now, NOW!

Iceland defaulted, no biggie.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 10:36:57

Iceland itself is hardly a biggie, so yeah, it was no biggie.
Greece is not that biggie of the biggie. I saw a PBS pundit say that the real ax is going to fall with Italy and Spain.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-09-20 10:56:21

Iceland DID NOT default—not in the same sense that Greece likely will.

Iceland merely allowed their TBTF banks to fail, without bailing them out. This resulted in the BANKS defaulting on some of their wholesale depositors (which included many local governments in the UK).

What happened was that the government of the UK stepped in and guaranteed the deposits of their local depositors, and then assumed that Iceland would reimburse them. Iceland has thus far declined to do so.

Painting Iceland with the brush of “default” when they actually have been the only national government to do the right thing (IMHO) strikes me as unfair. They were not profligate with their national spending and debt.

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-09-20 12:51:36

I apologize, prime. I misunderstood how that worked. Of course, as an American, one could be forgiven for identifying the banks as one and the same with the government.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-09-20 13:28:22

Nothing to forgive, palmy! I totally understand…

Just wanted to set the record straight, since Iceland is my only hero thus far in this whole debacle. :-)

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-09-20 07:55:03

Slow motion deleveraging + a dash of complacency bias + a heaping of entitled denial = misery.

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Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 08:15:13

“… it’s a slow, slow motion crash. You would think this time freeze would give most a chance to get out of the way.”

If the crash happened all at once then the shock would cause panic selling - people would get out of the way all at once. But if the crash happens in slow motion then the decline can be “explained” away by the talking heads and others PTB lackeys in such a way so as to keep the lemmings hanging on while the informed unload their holdings.

Sort of like boiling frogs.

The final rush to cash - the final stage of exhaustion, the capitulation stage - will come at the end of the decline when all hope is gone.

When all the potential sellers have reached their potential and have at last sold out their holdings is the moment when the bottom will be at hand.

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Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 05:21:11

Its a good thing the US now has its debt problems under control. That speech was just in time.

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 05:21:48

Realtors Are Liars®

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 05:27:53

Once in a blue moon, a Realtor will lie about a lie and accidentally tell the truth.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 06:01:11

Accidental truth is still a lie.

Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 06:08:50

If two wrong make a right does two lies make a truth?

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:10:11

It depends. Are you a real estate professional?

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 06:16:01

“Are you a real estate professional?”

If real estate professionals always lie then I cannot answer “yes” to the question no matter if I am one or not, so your question cannot give you any more information about me than you already have.

 
Comment by Al
2011-09-20 06:28:07

This is getting philisophical. How about this?

If a tree falls on a Realtor in the forest, and no is there to hear it, do prices still only go up?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 06:51:12

Al, you had us at “a tree falls on a Realtor”.

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 07:17:50

Which came first: the Realtor or the lie?

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2011-09-20 08:07:22

Q) There is a Used Car Salesman, a Realtor and a Lawyer. And you have a gun with two bullets… Which should you shoot?

(A) You should shoot the realtor twice… Just to be sure.

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2011-09-20 08:11:50

What destroys people and leaves buildings intact, that isn’t a neutron bomb. It’s called a mortgage.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-09-20 08:40:50

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 09:20:18

Jobs creation idea: new Green company that turns Realtors into fertilizer.

 
Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:35:28

Why do we Americans continue to give them 6% to sell our homes????

 
Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 10:59:34

Files under Rents only go up / Renting is throwing money away:

Received my lease renewal terms letter, option is to renew for 6, 9, or 12 months at the same rate, or 3.4% increase to go month-to-month. This isn’t DC or Manhattan, that lying Realtor® lie doesn’t fly in this part of flyover.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 14:04:34

“Why do we Americans continue to give them 6% to sell our homes????”

An alternative is an online broker who does the MLS thing and paperwork, but doesn’t hold your hand. We kept 90% of the listing commission, and the online broker did the MLS listing & transaction paperwork. I didn’t have to buy E&O insurance or be liable for the transaction. (I’m licensed in Ca.)

There are online brokers licensed to do business in most states. People are scared of thinking out of the box. I’d rather line our pockets than a realturds.

 
 
 
 
Comment by michael
2011-09-20 08:11:04

you will like this…”house under construction” on ziprealty. they put pictures of a completed house that looked too good to be true for the price. i called the liar.

he said that the picture were from another house built by the builder that was suppposed to build house on the lot that was for sale but they backed out and some modular home builder was gonna build on the lot for sale instead.

but hey…if you are looking for a lot i have one for you…it’s the best lot in town…a premier lot.

i drove by it and their was a drainage ditch running through the back…similar to the one a 12 year old kid drowned in a week or so later.

realtors are not just liars…they are evil.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 09:15:35

There it is…. Not only does Realtor misrepresent the value of an asset, they deliberately misrepresent the character of the structure.

Comment by Neuromance
2011-09-20 11:35:05

Realtors make their money on the sale. And that’s it, they’re done. That’s their business model, how they make their profit.

So, they strongly fight any attempts to strengthen lending standards. And their focus is on making the sale. That’s where their bread is buttered.

It’s just that simple.

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Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 11:38:12

Correct.

So why are you using a know fact to detract from the truth that Realtor knowingly and deliberately misrepresent the the value of an asset?

 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-09-20 13:03:51

Not trying to detract from it. Just emphasizing that it is to be expected, based on their business model.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 15:33:10

But because it’s legal, it’s ok right?

 
 
 
Comment by The_Overdog
2011-09-20 10:52:06

No only do realtors lie, they also dig drainage ditches to possibly kill children!!

Comment by michael
2011-09-20 13:16:18

not going that far…but they damn sure would lie about it.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 13:29:31

waterfront!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:40:20

Amid uncertainty, three sure things on tax plan
By Linda Stern
NEW YORK | Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:16pm EDT

3-Get a better mortgage, especially on your second home.

There are several reasons why people who own second homes with mortgages on them may choose to refinance now: (1) Mortgage rates are at record lows, according to Bankrate.com; (2) if Congress does limit deductions for high bracket folks that would reduce the value of their mortgage deductions and (3) there’s been a fair amount of talk in Washington of eliminating that mortgage write off altogether for second homes.

That means that homeowners who have significant amounts of equity might consider borrowing enough on their primary residence to pay off their second home loan. (That may not even work, if the rules are revised to eliminate the deductibility of interest for cash-out refinancings, which that would effectively be.)

Refinancing when mortgages rates are at their lows could help homeowners who live close to the edge: If you’re worried about being able to afford your mortgage without a mortgage interest tax deduction, getting a new, long and cheap loan could help keep your payments low.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-09-20 06:51:51

There’s only one thing worse than owning a house. That’s owning two or more houses.

(Said the house owner!)

Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:39:04

I have owned 3, made over $400k since 1989 in profits, timing is everything.

Comment by rms
2011-09-20 17:45:57

“…timing is everything.”

Also helps to live in a coastal state like CA or NY. Very little has changed in fly-over country to squeeze a profit.

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Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 07:39:46

“homeowners who have significant amounts of equity might consider borrowing enough on their primary residence to pay off their second home loan.”

Financial suicide. You would be better off selling your second home for a loss and using it to pay on the primary home. Or, depending on the state: walking on the second home.

I know someone who bought a vacation home. They were renting so many campers that it was worth their while to buy small summer single-wide on the lake for $12K or so, probably cash. That’s how you do second home.

Comment by Professor Bear
2011-09-20 08:39:09

“homeowners who have significant amounts of equity might consider borrowing enough on their primary residence to pay off their second home loan.”

How to get foreclosed on your primary home without really trying…

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:42:37

The NAR propaganda machine is running in overdrive now.

Real estate values under attack from Congress

Q&A talks residential real estate with Ron Phipps, president of the National Association of Realtors.

Q: The National Association of Realtors (NAR) recently brought its Home Ownership Matters bus to Plainville. What is the impetus behind Home QA_Phipps_WEBOwnership Matters? What are you hoping to accomplish with this nationwide tour?

A: Americans today are debating what home ownership means to their families, communities and the nation as a whole. We want to engage in that dialogue directly with people in their own communities.

Q: When the tour came to town, there was discussion about how the mortgage interest deduction benefits Connecticut homeowners, who took an average of more than $12,000 in deductions last year, and how some public policymakers are proposing to reduce or eliminate it. Who is proposing to reduce this deduction and what are the thoughts behind it?

A: Late last year, the Deficit Reduction Commission recommended limiting the deduction to principal residences and eliminating the MID credit for second homes, among other things, and as Congress looks for ways to reduce the debt, the MID may seem like an easy target. But our country’s support of homeownership did not start yesterday. Throughout most of its history, the U.S. has encouraged homeownership because it contributes to stable communities, supports our nation’s economy, and helps families build wealth — and for many of those families, owning a home means gaining a foothold into the middle class. And it’s ridiculous to say that the MID is suddenly part of the deficit problem — the deduction has been part of the federal tax code for nearly 100 years. There’s no question we’re dealing with difficult issues when it comes to the future of our nation’s economy, but in the process, we must not lose sight of the values that helped make our country strong in the first place. We believe the mortgage interest deduction must not be targeted for change.

Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 06:07:10

I like it.

Bus tours spread money around. Money in this economy needs to be spread around.

I’m for the NAR spreading as much money that they can handle and I’m hoping the NAR will raise its membership dues so it can spread some more.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:11:24

“I’m for the NAR spreading…”

So long as they don’t spread around bull manure, I’m fine with it, too.

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 07:17:38

Realtor=Freeloading lowlifes.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 07:33:02

“But our country’s support of homeownership did not start yesterday. Throughout most of its history, the U.S. has encouraged homeownership because yada yada Mom dad apple pie and chevy flag-wave chocolate cookies. ”

Just what part of “eliminating the MID credit for SECOND homes” do these morons NOT understand. Since when does a SECOND home stabilize communities and etc bs?

Comment by CA renter
2011-09-20 13:52:21

Right. Oftentimes, these “second homes” are in areas where workforce housing is in short supply. If Mr. and Mrs. Moneybags didn’t own their “vacation home,” a working person might be able to buy their own home…stabilizing that community.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 11:07:23

The National Association of Realtors (NAR) recently brought its Home Ownership Matters bus to Plainville.

Oh, how tempting it would be to let some of the air out of the bus tires. Just enough to make forward progress difficult.

Can you imagine all the realty-liars running around, trying to figure out what’s happened to their bus? And then being at a loss re: how to fix the problem?

That would be a show worth seeing.

Comment by CA renter
2011-09-20 14:32:24

I like your style, Slim. :)

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 15:35:29

Thank you!

And I’ll betcha money that the bus doesn’t have one of those little air pumps that you can use to inflate tires. You’ve seen those things — plug ‘em into your car’s cigarette lighter, flip the switch, and chug-a-chug they go.

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Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:16:16

I second what oxide said above: why waste money on a second home when spending less money will get you pampered at a really good hotel?

Or, even better, rent the summer beach/lake/hunting cottage/lodge/cabin! Let some other damn fool pay for the off-season overhead!

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 05:47:18

Home ownership is now “under attack,” because renters who choose to not own a home will no longer be strong-armed into forking over as much money as before to help pay for other peoples’ mortgages.

The NAR sez it, so it must be so.

News - Today’s News
Sunday, Sep. 18, 2011
Touring realtors make stop in S.C. to spread message
By Roddy Burris - McClatchy Newspapers

Realtors are up in arms about prospective changes in mortgage interest deduction and federal loan limits they say could have a dramatic impact on homeowners and future home buyers in South Carolina and across the country. State and national Realtor association members are making a nationwide bus tour to alert the public to the proposed changes and urge them to contact their lawmakers. The bus tour arrives in Columbia today and Nick Kremydas, South Carolina Association of Realtors executive director, outlined some of the issues for The State.

What do Realtors want to accomplish with the bus tour?

As policymakers consider changes to government programs and incentives that could dramatically change the nature of home ownership in this country, the Home Ownership Matters Bus tour is bringing these issues directly to people across the United States, and asking them to join in protecting the American dream of home ownership.

Home ownership is under attack, and we want to make sure that people understand what’s at stake. Whether you own a home today or want to own a home someday, it’s important to engage on these issues right now. With this bus tour, Realtors hope to give people the opportunity and the resources to make their voices heard.

County breakdown

County Current FHA loan limit Limit as of 10/1/2011 Difference
Beaufort $387,500 $346,150 ($41,350)
Berkeley $335,000 $302,450 ($32,550)
Charleston $335,000 $302,450 ($32,550)
Dorchester $335,000 $302,450 ($32,550)
Georgetown $395,000 $327,750 ($67,250)
Greenville $295,000 $271,050 ($23,950)
Horry $286,250 $271,050 ($15,200)
Jasper $387,500 $346,150 ($41,350)
Laurens $295,000 $271,050 ($23,950)
Pickens $295,000 $271,050 ($23,950)
York $303,750 $271,050 ($32,700)

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 06:21:19

What a sanctimonious chorus of corruption Realtor is. They and they alone make housing unaffordable.

Comment by CA renter
2011-09-20 14:33:41

Yep. If they lower the loan limits and eliminate the MID, housing would be **more affordable** for new buyers.

Man, do I hate realtors!

 
 
Comment by CrackerBob
2011-09-20 06:44:42

Gee whiz, maybe a downpayment could make up the difference. What a-holes.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-09-20 06:58:37

They “cherry picked” eleven counties. What about the other 35?

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 07:27:36

Yes. CrimeSyndicateRealtor conveniently left those counties out because including them might demonstrate that new construction can be had for less than existing.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 07:42:21

Sorry, but why should the FHA be supporting a $300K loan in South Carolina?? A starter family should be paying $100K, tops, for a home in SC.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 09:52:44

Especially when there is no attic or basement…….

A starter family should be paying $100K, tops, for a home in SC.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-09-20 08:05:29

Sure, homeownership has come under attack. Like half a century ago when real estate agents participated in “blockbusting”. That was an attack, an attack forgotten by a profession (and a society)with a very selective memory.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 11:14:39

True story from my childhood: There was an empty house in the neighborhood. Then, one fine day, there was a car parked in the driveway. New neighbors? Perhaps.

I was outside when I saw a group of kids from the nabe coming toward me. They were shouting the n-word.

Apparently, the people who’d parked the car at the empty house were black. And the kids were worried that…

…those people would be moving into the neighborhood.

Quite frankly, I didn’t find this alarming. I mean, come on. I’d gone to the neighborhood grade school, and quite a few of our teachers were black. So were some of my classmates.

Besides, my mother was teaching in the public school district, and guess what. If you want to get ahead at school, you need to get along with all of your coworkers. And Mom figured out how to work that school like a politician. Didn’t matter if you were the custodian or the principal. She made sure that you were her friend.

Well, back to the neighborhood. I heard — via one of the frightened kids — that someone’s parents had called another neighbor, who was a real estate agent. Turns out that the people who’d parked in the driveway were from a cleaning company that was there to give the house a good going-over before the new owners moved in. And those new owners were a good white family. Thus spake the agent, in very reassuring tones.

So much for real estate agents not discriminating.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:19:58

Come on Slim! We all know it was Frank Dodd’s fault and not industry wide and century long practice of red-lining that forced the banks to lend to *those* people!

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Comment by Neuromance
2011-09-20 11:42:48

Home ownership is under attack

Debt-slavery is under attack. Mortgaging your future for a huge albatross of a loan is under attack. Buying a money-pit of a house is under attack.

I’m totally on board with home ownership.

But let me buy one that’s affordable.

The NAR wants to keep prices as high as possible (by keep lending debauched and forcing the taxpayer to pay off the bad loans). Why? Because they make their money on the sale price. That’s it.

What the NAR is really selling is debauched lending, debt-slavery, extracting as much money from the public as possible, and then forcing the other members of the public to pay off the bad loan when it fails.

I posted yesterday on the pros and cons of getting a super low downpayment loan and defaulting if the need to sell arises. The NAR is one of the largest contributors to the politicians. This is a model they are perfectly happy with. And as are their political cronies.

I wonder when the real estate system in this country will change back to one that actually builds wealth for individuals rather than reducing it.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 12:33:03

What the NAR is really selling is debauched lending, debt-slavery, extracting as much money from the public as possible, and then forcing the other members of the public to pay off the bad loan when it fails.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 13:49:05

It’s more than the NAR which is selling that.

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Comment by CA renter
2011-09-21 03:12:39

True, oxide, but the NAR is blatant about it, and they absolutely have the politicians’ ears.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 21:48:41

“Why? Because they make their money on the sale price. That’s it.”

I’d have to add that these peeps are too dumb to realize that it’s the unaffordable sale prices which explain why so few homes are selling, and so many used home sellers have nothing to do.

 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 05:53:52

Even the AP is not buying it…

————————-

FACT CHECK: Are Rich Taxed Less Than Secretaries?
AP via Yahoo News ^ | 20 Sept 2011 | Stephen Olemacher

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama makes it sound as if there are millionaires all over America paying taxes at lower rates than their secretaries.

“Middle-class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires,” Obama said Monday. “That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that.”

The data tell a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes and payroll taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:08:56

Let’s say the very rich and the very poor are taxed at a lower rate than are the middle class, who are perpetually tasked to do more than their fair share, and leave it there.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 06:42:53

The rich have access to methods of sheltering income. It’s because they do not need all of it and more just to get through the day. If one is a middle earther or even a suber who organizes their life to cost less than one earns, these means are open to you as well. Regardless, the rich pay most of the taxes in the US.

Obama is not an original thinker, he is talking to his echo chamber. It’s all about self impression.

What has killed the middle class is not overtaxation, it is the interest on their debt. A self inflicted fatal wound. A viral condition that has infected the national government.

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 07:56:12

What killed the middle class was the Bottomless Stockholder Maw. Companies went looking for 10% profit, only to find that actual products and services are good for only about 6% profit. How to get that extra 4%, every year? Cannibilize the company a little at a time, mostly through outsourcing and rightsizing. With less income and with mom now working, the middle class had no choice but to go into debt.

Of course the middle class tried to rise too fast, and use debt to get into the upper middle class, not smart.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-09-20 08:07:12

J6P, death by 401k - amongst other things.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 08:51:23

Oxy, I would only add one twist to what you are saying: Stockholders did not get the proceeds from corporate canabilism as much as the executives of the corporations.

My dad chose early retirement from a very large corp in the 80s because his retirement benefits were going to drop significantly if he waited. He could see that the execs were looting the retirement fund. They actually took billions out of it as “profit” and made it look right on paper by reducing pension benefits going forward. They (the executives) gave this money to themselves, not the stockholders. It hapened all over the country. I do not know really why it happened just then, but I suspect it was due to a not so innocent change in FedGov rules. Thus the birth of the Age of 401K.

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Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 09:27:09

“but I suspect it was due to a not so innocent change in FedGov rules.”

Do you have more detail on this? I’d be interested in knowing which rule was changed.

There’s a whole laundry list of cannibilizations over the past 30 years. But for the most part, they’ve run out. For example, HBB posted a couple articles where a company moved to another state. Now, it used to be that when a company relocated, the workers were “transferred,” often with housing help. Now, those workers are invited to “reapply” at the new location. If they do retain their jobs, it’s likely with a pay cut. That’ll feed the bottomless stockholder maw for about a year. Then what?

 
Comment by Montana
2011-09-20 09:59:01

I was just reading about that yesterday..govt said the corps couldn’t hold “excess” money in retirement funds. Then all hell broke loose. Unintended consequences again, of course. Or not?

Wish I could remember where I saw that..

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 10:12:07

I do not have details. Was just discussing this with my older sis the other day as I am already older than Dad was when he retired.

 
Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:02:03

Deregualtion is why it happened Blue Sky.

The 80s were all about deregulation.

Out current mess has its roots from the 80s.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 18:25:49

turkey lurkey - you’re so right. I was one of the supporters of deregulation and was a Reagan Republican back then.
Karma has been harsh.

“Out current mess has its roots from the 80s.”

 
Comment by CA renter
2011-09-21 03:16:23

Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:02:03
Deregualtion is why it happened Blue Sky.

The 80s were all about deregulation.

Out current mess has its roots from the 80s.
————

Bingo.

 
 
 
Comment by Jim A
2011-09-20 11:29:07

It is certainly true that both the top marginal tax rate and the capital gains rate are the lowest that they’ve been in postwar history and need to be raised. It is also true that many people with near median incomes have simply overspent their incomes. The perceived perquisites of the “middle class lifestyle” have risen much faster than incomes have. If families with today’s median incomes lived like families did 50 years ago (small 3/2 house, single car, single broadcast only TV, annual but modest vacations) they’d be able to send their kids to state college and have a significant nestegg when it came time to retire.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 13:55:56

2 bathrooms seems pretty uppidy for a bluecollar family of four in 1960.

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Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:05:04

Half the work force DOES live like that.

72 million workers make $500 a week or less. That’s 24k a year.

Tried living on that lately?

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Comment by drumminj
2011-09-20 16:06:16

72 million workers make $500 a week or less. That’s 24k a year.

InColorado has an alt?

 
 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 06:51:15

“On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.”

The distinction- which Obama did not do a good job of making- is not in the amount of taxes paid (of course billionaires pay more total taxes than janitors), but in the fact that capital gains- which is how the wealthy make a lot of their money- are taxed at lower rates than income- which is how the middle class makes most of its money.

The Obama re-election campaign room needs a sign that says: ‘It’s the capital gains rate, stupid!’

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 07:06:48

I understand what you are saying about capital gains. The problem, in my thinking, is that capital gains are the result of credit expansion. If the great Age of Credit is passing, capital gains are going to be really sucky for a long time. We need a different gimick to rape the guys at the top of the Ponzi pyramid. Otherwise, we are screwed.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 07:41:27

“If the great Age of Credit is passing, capital gains are going to be really sucky for a long time. We need a different gimick to rape the guys at the top of the Ponzi pyramid”

There’s always some reason not to tax the rich at the same rates as the rest of us, I guess.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 08:03:02

It’s not that. That should happen. They looted us and we should loot them back, right! My point is it won’t be nearly enough to keep our game lubricated, though it will be entertaining.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 08:09:48

“They looted us and we should loot them back, right! ”

So taxing their income at the same rate as the little people’s income is ‘looting’?

 
Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 08:17:41

Yesterday on Rush’s radio program he was discussing a survey of the proportion of American who believe that they themselves will become millionaires in the next decade.

This belief is but one of the always some reason not to change tax laws.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 08:36:17

“So taxing their income at the same rate as the little people’s income is ‘looting’?”

Yes, exactly.

Not that I have enjoyed being looted.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 08:52:15

Not that I have enjoyed being looted.

So then why do you support the uber rich having a lighter tax load than you do? I don’t get it.

 
Comment by Doghouse Riley
2011-09-20 09:05:27

I don’t expect that I will ever become a millionaire.

What I DO expect is that any tax which is intended to “soak the millionaires” will in a few years work its way down to taxing me.

The original US income tax rate was 1% of income starting at $10,000, in 1913 dollars.

The original inheritance tax was capped at 0.75% when property passed to direct descendants.

The original alternative minimum tax was targeted at 155 (that’s one hundred and fifty five) households.

No matter how much you may want to soak the plutocracy, sooner or later you wind up putting the middle and upper middle class through the wringer.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 09:07:19

I do not. OK, I’ll try to express this in a different way. We can fix the wealth inequity. We can fix the tax inequity. I am sure attempts will be made, but will not be entirely successful.

Failure to look just beyond that goal is Narcisistic and will lead to pain. There isn’t enough money in the sum to continue the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. That, cannot be fixed.

Your entitlements will be reduced. There is no way to avoid that. So, as an individual, get ready for less, lest you be crushed.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 09:13:21

Blue-

Absolutely nothing you just said justifies capital gains being taxed at lower rates than income.

But keep blowing that smoke.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 09:16:40

I believe that most here understand and accept that”entitlements” will have to be cut. But that alone won’t balance the budget, not by a long shot. Even if they stopped paying SS and Medicare, but continued to collect the payroll tax, there would still be a huge deficit.

The very wealthy need to pay more taxes. They won’t because our our bought and paid for leadership is on their payroll.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 09:26:37

Then all the more urgent to have a personal plan to reduce the impact of having less. That is my personal preoccupation and has been for a decade.

The politicians need to be thrown out. Their replacements will mostly need to be thrown out & etc. It is a process that is either going to be very slow or very messy.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 09:58:47

What about NO income taxes on capital gains or corporate profits….

That also means no rebates for any losses….no $3k for individuals each year and no tax loss carryfowards for business.. FAIR …. right?

Blue- Alpha
Absolutely nothing you just said justifies capital gains being taxed at lower rates than income.But keep blowing that smoke.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 10:04:56

Blue:

laptops flat screen tvs ipads multiple hard drives….really condense lots of space. so a couple with very little can survive in a 600 sq ft 1 br

The only way out is to rezone McMmansions to rooming houses, or allow a big share. 5 bedrooms 3500 sq ft to fill,

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 10:51:42

dj,

I actually do live in 600 ft2. Plenty of room for me and my sometimes live aboard companion. It is also my office and workshop.

On the capital gains tax rate, I suspect you did not read what Alpha and I wrote.

 
Comment by The_Overdog
2011-09-20 11:01:26

A 0% rate of capital gains taxes would reek havoc on the stock market. Talk about short time trades going crazy! High frequency trading would become a goldmine.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-09-20 13:36:04

Blue Skye, I would have thought that your boat was much less than 600 ft2!

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 13:53:40

It’s about right if I include the topside, fly bridge and swim platform and ignore the fact that the bow is pointy.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 13:54:46

+1 nycdj. Until about 2 years ago, I got by on less than 600 sq ft. If you add a small basement for the mechanicals, the washer-dryer, and the canned goods, that frees up a lot of space.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 16:16:47

All they have to do is make the bid valid for 1 second that would stop at least 1/2 or 75%+ of the trades if they also coupled it with a 1 cent per share tansaction fee (heck dedicate the fee to provide health insurance for the middle class) people would go nutz

Talk about short time trades going crazy! High frequency trading would become a goldmine.

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2011-09-21 00:15:02

“a couple with very little can survive in a 600 sq ft 1 br”

Agree completely. I have a problem with the lack of foresight involved in building these monstrosities especially out here in the desert southwest…Although I have to say it was within the builders right to build and the buyers right to buy. I guess people had stars in their eyes and neglected to think about all of the expenses involved in managing structures of that size.

 
 
Comment by michael
2011-09-20 08:58:38

dividends are taxed at the lower cap gain rate.

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Comment by SDGreg
2011-09-20 06:51:40

That’s the usual game played by the wealthy freeloaders, only look at federal taxes and don’t look at all income.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 09:05:44

:-)

Kirk to Scotty: “Damn it man, you’ve over compen$ated the $uffering $o’s, …we’re falling into a gravitational distortion orbiting around the “TrueWealthie$™” put the damn engines in reverse, Now!, …that’s an order!”

Scotty to Kirk: “I’m doing all I can Cap’t, but the Lithium Crystals are nearly depleted, and the rebel repubican peon-workers have locked themselves into the the control room and just keep chanting: “Cut it! or $hut it! Get lil’ Opie! Cut it! or $hut it! Get lil’ Opie!”

Spock interupts: “Scotty, that’s ill-logical, remind the rebels that their mothers & grandmothers are on board too. Indeed, the Cap’t is correct, put the engines in reverse or the ship will discombobulate as it descends in the gravitational black-hole of the “TrueWealthie$™””

Scotty: “Well, just listen ‘em to ‘em you you pointing eared calculator”:

(background commotion & chao$ ,…yelling/screaming/hollering): “Cut it! or $hut it! Get lil’ Opie! Cut it! or $hut it! Get lil’ Opie!”

 
Comment by Robin
2011-09-20 22:45:28

In the AT&T Network, forklifts drive themselves!

And precisely why is this a good thing?

 
 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 07:22:59

Don’t forget the “earned income tax credit” that magically puts tax refund money in the hands of people who don’t/won’t even or just barely work.

Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 08:29:46

A single parent of 2 earning the sweet spot income of between $12-17K that qualifies for the maximum EITC of $5600 must be living pretty high on the hog.

See also Ruben Bolling’s ‘Lucky Ducky’ cartoons.

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 09:03:00

So Rush is complaining about the difference between making $17K and making $23K.

That’s about 26 seconds of trading for someone at Golden Sacks. Kinda like how the half-bil Solyndra gets oodles of press, but the AIG bailout in the TENS of billions never makes the news, except maybe elitist PBS. :roll:

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Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 10:33:49

EITC wasn’t discussed yesterday that I know of. Driving through the radio black hole between Rocky Mountain National Park and Boulder down St Vrain Canyon my AM signal was loud and clear.

In other news, this just in on thehill DOT com: Issa to launch probe of Obama actions on Solyndra, LightSquared

 
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2011-09-21 00:16:13

“Golden Sacks”

That’s a good one :)

 
 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 09:13:00

Just saying they enjoy a somewhat remarkably better better tax bracket than Warren Buffet. Obama is a liar. Just because someone sucks at earning money does not mean that he deserves money that you and I have worked hard for.

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 10:00:29

Just because someone sucks at earning money does not mean that he deserves money that you and I have worked hard for.

The US Military is abundant with these type of degenerate off-spring children, you know, being re$ourced to defend America.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 11:01:25

“Just saying they enjoy a somewhat remarkably better better tax bracket than Warren Buffet.”

Check the capital gains tax rate and get back to us.

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 15:51:25

I did. Taxed 15%. The non-workers get a net gain from the IRS.

Wich one is a better deal? Hmmm…

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-21 04:55:31

Non-workers don’t get the EIC.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 09:24:34

We must balance the budget on the backs of the middle class and the poor! (Even if it’s impossible)

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Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 09:47:39

17K is more than the Federal minimum wage for 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year.

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Comment by drumminj
2011-09-20 09:46:40

Don’t forget the “earned income tax credit”

Or the child tax credit…

Comment by m2p
2011-09-20 17:45:23

And from the Carmel Pine Cone, Sept 9th, edition

“Most of the illegal immigrants living in Monterey County who filed income tax returns last year probably used an IRS loophole to fraudulently claim refundable tax credits, according to a report by the U.S.Treasury Department. Nationwide, the illegal credits claimed by undocumented immigrants cost $4.2 billion in 2010, the study said.”

“Though the IRS agreed to discuss with the Department of Treasury the issue of eligibility among ITIN filers, it did not agree to require additional documentation to support child
tax credit claims on ITIN returns, according to the report.In 2010, the Treasury Inspector General determined that 14 percent of non-ITIN filers, or those with Social Security Numbers, claimed the additional child tax credit, while 72 percent of those with ITINs, claimed the federal benefit.”

Link challenged, and it’s a PDF.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-09-20 07:33:45

You really need to look at ALL income, including capital gains. On the other hand you need to look at ALL deductions, federal tax, state taxes and SS.
Most very wealthy individuals make their income through capital gains, not earned income. The long term capital gains rate is at 15% and no SS either.
Your average worker pays federal taxes + state taxes + SS which is far greater than 15%. I am tired of those rich parasites whining when asked to contribute their fair share. They are always the first in line when taxpayer funded bailouts are handed out.
All income should be taxed the same and no cap on SS. The SS money is spend just like any other tax revenue anyway.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 08:54:15

Because “earned income” taxes are for the little people. Tax Mr. Moneybags at the same rate and he might have less money to invest in China.

 
Comment by michael
2011-09-20 09:27:08

now let me get this right…this government of ours and its central bank are doing everything imaginable to create a “wealth effect” by blowing up the stock market bubble…and you think they are going to increase the capital gains rate…to make taxes “fair”?

 
Comment by CA renter
2011-09-21 03:23:46

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-09-20 07:33:45
You really need to look at ALL income, including capital gains. On the other hand you need to look at ALL deductions, federal tax, state taxes and SS.
Most very wealthy individuals make their income through capital gains, not earned income. The long term capital gains rate is at 15% and no SS either.
Your average worker pays federal taxes + state taxes + SS which is far greater than 15%. I am tired of those rich parasites whining when asked to contribute their fair share. They are always the first in line when taxpayer funded bailouts are handed out.
All income should be taxed the same and no cap on SS. The SS money is spend just like any other tax revenue anyway.

——————

Amen, Mike!

 
 
Comment by Mike
2011-09-20 08:59:21

The poor pay 5.7%? In most places they pay more than that just in sales tax. And let’s not forget FICA…

Just shows you can demonstrate anything with enough weasel words…

Comment by drumminj
2011-09-20 09:52:16

In most places they pay more than that just in sales tax.

If only they had qualified their statement. Oh wait, they did. Perhaps you should re-read…

“FEDERAL TAXES”.

That’s right.

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-09-20 09:28:52

Now add the employeer match and you bring the “under $1 million” upto 22%, while the over $1 million stay at 29%.

AND!!!

Look at marginal rate rather then effective. It is much worse.

While the billionaire being hit by AMT is paying about 28%, I pay 28% + 15.3% = 43.3%.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2011-09-20 13:23:43

I think I see a pattern. Everyone thinks (other than Buffet) that they are already paying their “fair share”. It is all the other people who are not.

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 13:56:29

What about all the job creators who think they are paying more than their fair share?

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-09-20 16:41:23

The rich pay a larger portion of the tax load. But they also receive and control a larger portion of the wealth.

Are their taxes in proportion to their wealth?

That’s the question in my opinion.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/separate-unequal-charts-show-growing-rich-poor-gap-20110223-141311-132.html

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:25:56

BUSTED!

The VERY FIRST link by year (2009) says they are lying sacks of conrete.

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html

Math is be hard!

The “Tax Policy Center” is about as “bi-partisan” and MLK was white.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:27:10

“Math is be hard!”

…and apparently so is using Google. :roll:

 
 
 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 06:03:54

Fannie and Freddie’s Boss Speaks Out On Obama’s Refi Plan
(DeMarco states his job is to protect the taxpayer.)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44580914?__source=RSS*blog*&par=RSS

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 06:21:00

Sept. 20, 2011, 12:01 a.m. EDT
Short the euro, and make a buck
Commentary: ‘European Union’ is an oxymoron
By David Weidner, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — This column doesn’t usually give investing advice unless it’s some kind of smart-alecky rant against gold.

Read Writing on the Wall column from April: Buy gold.

But sometimes an investment is such an obvious winner that not even a dummy can pass. That’s why you should short the euro. It’s easy money.

For more than two years, the European Union has been wrangling with Greece’s sovereign-debt problems. And if you thought the U.S. government’s response to our financial crisis was bad, the EU is making Timothy Geithner look downright competent.

There have been lukewarm agreements, deals with the International Monetary Fund and its ladies’-man former chief. There have been global summits, international pressure and rescue packages. But none of this has done much to alleviate the crisis. They’ve bought time, sure, but there’s just been time to fight.

Of course, we know that the Greece debt problem isn’t about Greece at all. It’s about the German and French banks that hold the bonds. And it’s not even about the Grecian bonds but Spanish, Portuguese and Italian bonds, too.

For the moment, however, let’s limit this to Greece.

French and German banks have $90.7 billion in exposure to that country’s sovereign debt. To make matters worse, Italian and Portuguese banks have a combined $11.4 billion in exposure, according to the Bank of International Settlements.

Now, let’s consider Portugal. Weakling Spain has nearly $85 billion in bank and nonbank exposure to its Iberian neighbor. Germany has close to $40 billion in exposure and France nearly $30 billion, according to the BIS.

Finally, Spain’s debt is as manageable as a running of the bulls in an elevator. Here, Germany holds $180 billion; France, $140 billion; and even the United States, close to $50 billion — with $19.5 billion of that on bank balance sheets.

This should not only make you feel better about the U.S. bank bailouts — the majority of which have been repaid — but about your own credit-card debt.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 06:48:02

Europe is in deflation. At the end of the day, the Euro is the DMark. More Euros are owed than exist. Short Germany at your own risk.

Greece has essentially shorted the Euro. How’s that working for them?

Comment by butters
2011-09-20 07:36:51

With Euro gone, Germany will pay a big price. Germany is to Eurozone what China is to USA. China has to lend money to USA so that we can buy cheap chinese stuff. Expensive stuff in Germany’s case.

Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:48:11

Expensive AND NICE stuff in Germany’s case!

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Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 06:26:21

IMF sharply downgrades its outlook for US and European economies through next year.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The International Monetary Fund has sharply downgraded its outlook for the U.S. economy through 2012 because of weak growth and concern that Europe won’t be able to solve its debt crisis.

The international lending organization expects the U.S. economy to grow just 1.5 percent this year and 1.8 percent in 2012. That’s down from its June forecast of 2.5 percent in 2011 and 2.7 percent next year.

The IMF has also lowered its outlook for the 17 countries that use the euro. It predicts 1.6 percent growth this year and 1.1 percent next year, down from its June projections of 2 percent and 1.7 percent, respectively.

The gloomier forecast for Europe is based on worries that Greece will default on its debt and destabilize the region.

“Fear of the unknown is high,” said Olivier Blanchard, the IMF’s chief economist. “Strong policies are urgently needed to improve the outlook and reduce the risks.”

Overall, the IMF predicts global growth of 4 percent for both years. Stronger growth in China, India, Brazil and other developing countries should offset weaker output in the United States and Europe.

The U.S. economy grew at an annual rate of just 0.7 percent in the first six months of the year. And the U.S. unemployment rate has stayed above 9 percent for all but two months since the recession officially ended two years ago.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 09:11:51

IMF sharply downgrades its outlook for US and European economies through next year. ;-)

Top $ecret IMF Memo: “The world is flat!, with a few hill$ of pro$perity, wherein lies the private village$ & E$tate$ of the “TrueWealthie$™”” & the $uffering $o’s.”

Cinder$ & Ashe$, Agonie$ & Pain$… Help ‘em!

“…if you tax them less, they can hire more people.”

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 06:29:49

August home building fell 5 pct., slide continues
Construction is less than half the level that economists say is needed for a healthy economy.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Builders broke ground on fewer homes in August, a reminder that the housing market remains depressed.

The Commerce Department said Tuesday that builders began work on a seasonally adjusted 571,000 homes last month, a 5 percent decline from July. That’s less than half the 1.2 million that economists say is consistent with healthy housing markets.

Single-family homes, which represent roughly two-thirds of home construction, fell 1.4 percent. Apartment building plunged 12.4 percent. Building permits, a gauge of future construction, rose 3.2 percent.

Hurricane Irene also slowed construction in the Northeast.

Overall, homebuilding fell to its lowest levels in 50 years in 2009, when builders began work on just 554,000 homes. Last year was not much better.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 07:01:25

“Construction is less than half the level that economists say is needed for a healthy economy.”

Sorry, our economy isn’t based on building any more. It’s based on…….

OK, I’ll get back to you on that.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-09-20 07:19:14

Fraud, bailouts, Ponzi schemes, can kicking operations, money printing, lobbying, speculation, corruption, …see, our economic underpinning is very diversified. Industry and (home)building is only for losers and dummies. Pretty much a dying breed. The real money in this modern economy is made in the activities outlined above.

Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 09:17:27

How do we apply for fraud jobs? I want in on the lucrative scamming business. It is the future.

Plastics, plastics is so 1960…

Fraud, fraud. Corruption and fraud. The roaring 20teens.

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Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:49:33

Send an application to B of A or GS.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:29:12

If our economy’s health is based on building overpriced shoddy crap-shacks, it’s time to emigrate.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 07:09:38

The California jobless rate will not go down until the following happens:

1. They throw out most illegals
2. They become a right to work state (especially with public unions)
3. They reduce tax rates and regulations

——————–

California jobless rate to remain stuck at 12% — UCLA
Orange County Register (CA) | September 20, 2011 | Mary Ann Milbourn

California’s unemployment rate, which had been coming down earlier this year, is now expected to remain at 12% through 2012, according to UCLA’s quarterly economic forecast released today.

And things won’t improve much from there.

“Employment growth in 2011 and 2012 will push unemployment down marginally,” wrote UCLA senior economist Jerry Nickelsburg. “Therefore, we do not expect it to reach single digits until 2014.”

UCLA economists do not believe the country is in a recession now — and don’t anticipate a double dip. But the reason isn’t very encouraging.

Senior economist David Shulman argues basically that the economy is so far down, it can’t really fall that much more.

“Simply put, the three sectors that would normally put the economy into recession are already depressed — housing, consumer durables and inventories,” he wrote. “Even if housing starts drop to new lows, this sector of the economy has shriveled so much that it would only have a modest impact on economic activity.”

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 07:27:49

Nice to hear an atypically dire outlook from the normally permabullish UCLA Andersen School forecasters…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 09:09:23

1. They throw out most illegals
They can’t. Only the Feds can deport illegals.

2. They become a right to work state (especially with public unions)
FWIW, there isn’t a whole lot of private sector union work in Cali anymore. I think the grocery store workers are a final bastion and thanks to non union shops like walmart their back is already against the wall.

3. They reduce tax rates and regulations
That might help, but I think you might have missed a reason why “producers” are fleeing the golden state: high real estate prices. I know people who refuse to move there because of the high cost of renting/buying (and the higher cost of living in general)

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 14:05:43

Right-to-work doesn’t apply to public unions, does it? It’s not like you can move a California teacher to Tennessee to cut their pay.

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-09-20 09:31:26

Let’s start slashing government spending and see if this “it can’t get worse” argument holds any water!

Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:52:46

anything to make sure O is not reelected!

 
 
Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:11:52

I’ve worked in CA. I’ve NEVER seen a state violate more labor laws in my life.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 07:28:14

I saw data yesterday on the “10 best states to be a realtor,” based on dividing the number of existing home sales by the number of NAR realtors.

The numbers surprised me. With the exception of a high number in Alaska, the top states were all less than 10. Mostly 8 or 9. Which means the other states are even less.

Too many realtors, not enough sales.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 07:32:26

The used house pimps will have to supplement their collapsing commissions with selling used cars, pole dancing and birthday clown shows for kids.

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 07:39:51

“Too many realtors, not enough sales.”

Karma.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 09:55:08

:-)

Comment by Robin
2011-09-20 23:13:56

God Bless Tony Bennett!

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:43:08

True confession: I played for him (twice).

Thirty-year card-carrying member of the American Federation of Musicians typing here (aka union thug — anti-Tea Party rabble rouser)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2011-09-20 09:36:26

Let’s see… 10 sales at 6% per going to realtors = 60% of the sale average price being thier gross. $150K average price now? That would be $90K. I wonder what kind of margin they run? Office, advertising, swag… 50%?

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 10:01:58

So with that number of sales in the top states, you might net $45 K. How about the places where Realtors average 3 sales per year? Admittedly, those are probably in the higher priced markets.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 07:55:36

Milton Call Center Will Close By December

Tata Business Solutions in Milton will close by the end of the year putting more than 180 people out of work.

MILTON, Florida –

Tata Business Solutions gave Milton Mayor Guy Thompson the bad news last week. The India-based company, which provides web/internet support for travel-related companies, told the mayor it was shutting down its Milton call center.

182 people will be laid off by the end of the year.

Mayor Thompson says Tata recently lost two key contracts and will lay-off 251 U-S employees…the majority of them in Milton.

Mayor Thompson says Tata is one of Milton’s largest employers. He says the layoffs could be a disaster for Milton and the surrounding area.

Layoffs at Tata could be as early as November 15th.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 08:29:00

A Tata reduction is truely a sad event.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 09:19:59

Many(including me) go to great lengths to augment Tatas.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 09:23:49

A ta-ta to Tata.

 
Comment by howiewowie
2011-09-20 11:20:55

But I thought Florida was a low tax, low regulation state perfect for businesses?

Comment by CrackerJim
2011-09-20 12:24:18

Not compared to India.

 
 
Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:13:57

Will they repay the tax breaks?

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:30:27

Good point.

 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2011-09-20 08:02:20

Florida firm offers free AK-47s to new customers

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — Retail merchant account provider MerchantService.com will give a voucher good for a free AK-47 assault rifle to new customers, depending on the amount of business they do. The company, which provides credit-card-processing services to businesses, announced the promotion as part of its “”No Merchant Victims” campaign that is designed to “encourage merchants to stand their ground and protect themselves,” MerchantService.com said. The voucher, worth up to $750 “can be used at any reputable gun shop where [the user] must go through the proper background checks and waiting period that the law requires,” said Gino Kauzlarich, president of Sarasota, Fla.-based MerchantService.com, on the company’s website.

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 09:33:30

:shock: Are you sure this isn’t The Onion???

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:32:45

There’s a LOT of pressure in many states to scale back the electronic merchant transaction fees. Those fees add a significant “baked in” amount to the total cost of products and services.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-09-20 08:29:44

When yuppies attack…or…daddy must’ve have forgotten to send the check

(Sun Times) A River North neighborhood bank branch was robbed this morning by a young woman reportedly wearing dark clothing, a baseball cap and sunglasses. The blond-haired woman, believed to be in her mid- to late-20s, had blond hair and a pony tail. She was wearing tight blue jeans or black pants, white gym shoes, and a baseball cap, according to unconfirmed dispatch reports.

Just before 9 a.m., the woman entered the bank in the 600 block of North Dearborn Street, presented a teller with a note demanding money and implied she had a weapon, police News Affairs Officer John Mirabelli said.

There have been at least 60 bank robberies this year in the Chicago area, according to the FBI.

 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 08:30:06

American taxpayers could be forced to foot the bill if Fed’s bailout of faltering Eurozone turns sour. By Daily Mail Reporter

American taxpayers could end up footing the bill if the United States’ bailout of the faltering Eurozone turns sour.

At present, U.S. citizens are fairly well protected, but if the crisis continues to grow and America takes on a greater role, risk to consumers and taxpayers in the country will increase, according to economists.

The biggest exposure could come from America’s status as the single largest source of money for the International Monetary Fund.
Timothy Geithner arrived at the Eurogroup meeting during Informal Economic and Financial Affairs Council (ECOFIN) in Wroclaw Poland today and encouraged the U.S. and Eurozone to work together

An emergency provision, approved by the Group of 20 industrialised nations in 2009, granted the IMF broad powers to expand its lending authority, meaning American taxpayers could be left on the hook if those loans later go bad.

The latest round of American financial assistance came on Thursday the Federal Reserve promising to swap as many dollars for euros as were needed by European bankers.

The Fed joined the European central bank, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan and the Swiss National bank in their bids to lend funds over the next three months to dig Europe out of its financial crisis.

In the immediate term, the Fed transactions will not have much impact because the central banks are simply swapping currencies of equal value in a bid to spare the global economy from another recession.

But over the long term, consumers could feel the impact of central bankers flooding the financial system with cash, according to John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics.

‘This is a lender of last resort function,’ he told CNBC. ‘With the dollar injections that the Fed has done, it’s like giving a patient medicine with really bad side effects.’

Mr Ryding said the bad side effect in the U.S. has been inflation, which has picked up to 3.8 per cent year over year.

Fed policy makers meet next week to decide whether the flagging U.S. economy needs another round of easy-money measures that could include buying more Treasury bonds to push more cash into the financial system.

The idea of the U.S. underwriting a broader bailout of the European financial system has not been publicly floated to date. But Senate Republicans have already voiced serious worries over such a move in future.

Comment by michael
2011-09-20 09:29:28

i really for the life of me cannot figure out how lending more money solves a “too much debt” problem.

Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-09-20 15:16:56

It’s helps to “unwind” your “friends” as well as yourself from their bad position.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:36:13

Bingo.

Your very wealthy and personal “good ol boys club” will owe you significant “favors” for bailing them out before the SHTF.

I told everyone this was the case with the first bailout as well as the second. They had NOTHING to do with economic recovery and EVERYTHING to do with bailouts of their buddies.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2011-09-20 08:36:40

Looks like Megabank, Inc may be throwing in the towel on the hoped-for but ever-delayed California economic recovery.

San Diego default filings surge in August
The month-to-month increase was largely due to two major banks

SAN DIEGO COUNTY — The number of default notices, the first step in the foreclosure process, ballooned in August, largely due to activity from Bank of New York Mellon and Bank of America, figures from La Jolla-based DataQuick show.

Bank of New York Mellon filings in San Diego County increased from 76 in July to 403 in August, or 430 percent. Meanwhile, Bank of America pushed through more than two times as many defaults during that same time period.

The two lenders, known as beneficiaries in public records, accounted for the bulk of the county’s most recent month-to-month increase. Notices rose from 1,274 in July to 2,094 in August, or 64.4 percent. That’s the largest month-to-month percentage increase since December 2008.

Similar jumps were evident throughout the state, including Los Angeles and Orange counties.

“It appears they’re working through their backlogs of delinquent loans,” said DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage. “But why and why all of a sudden. It’s not clear.”

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 09:40:22

How are Megabank, Inc’s infestments in San Diego residential real estate working out for them?

County notices of default
Lender Aug. ‘10 July ‘11 Aug. ‘11 MOM Pct Chg YOY Pct Chg
Bank of America 187 130 419 222.3% 124.1%
Bank of New York Mellon 97 76 403 430.3% 315.5%
Wells Fargo 192 202 274 35.6% 42.7%
JP Morgan Chase 194 203 209 3.0% 7.7%
Deutsche Bank 21 63 84 33.3% 300.0%

Source: DataQuick Note: The findings are based on the lender name listed as the “beneficiary” for the notice of default filed in the public record.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 17:13:45

An offshoot thought. I was reading that the REIT’s are lining up to suck up the residential properties and want to rent them out. Or at least that’s what people in the REIC are saying, and someone threw it in an aricle.

If this is a work in progress, it could relate to the uptick in moving homes through the foreclosure process. FHFA (Fannie & Freddie) and the Banks would have a scape goat.

What do you guys think?

If it pans out, I am going to blow a head gasket! REIT vs. NAR. REIT’s have much more money to buy their favors.

One more thing, sub-primes are back. $0 down a home under $225 in So Ca desert. Friend’s son.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 09:11:25

Carlstadt maker of computerized dental imaging equipment to close
September 20, 2011 BY HUGH R. MORLEY The Record N.J.

The owner of Cadent Inc., which provides digital imaging services and equipment for dentists, says it will shut its Carlstadt plant, lay off 119 people and move the work to Costa Rica and Mexico.

The closing is part of a consolidation of work done at the plant as a result of the company’s acquisition by San Jose, Calif.-based Align Technology Inc., a company statement said.

The transition will begin in the fourth quarter of this year, and the plant will close in the third quarter of 2012, the statement said.

Layoffs will take place in September 2012, according to a letter filed with the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development, as required by the federal WARN Act. The jobs lost will include orthodontists, supervisors and customer service workers.

“Many valued employees will be impacted,” said Thomas M. Prescott, president and CEO of Align Technology, in a statement. “These actions, while difficult, are necessary to create the most streamlined service for customers and optimize efficiency across the business.”

Align said it plans to consolidate its computer-aided design and manufacture, and scanner customer care operations in a plant in San Jose, Costa Rica.

Some computer-aided design and manufacture services and scanner distribution and repair work will go to Juarez, Mexico. Accounting and finance functions will go to Align’s corporate headquarters in San Jose, Calif.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-09-20 10:17:38

So how long until there are no jobs left in the USA?

Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 10:41:24

Shall we start a pool?

Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 10:56:07

Just civil service jobs and tourism related.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 11:19:45

Never gonna happen.

 
 
Comment by michael
2011-09-20 11:08:43

“…move the work to Costa Rica ”

unless they’ve greatly improved over the past 6 years…proof you don’t need great infrastrucure to create jobs.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 11:20:03

Now, what are all those dental X-ray pushing dentists going to do now?

Anyone else noticed that, during just about every dental appointment, the dentist or one of his minions is pushing for an X-ray update? Why? Do teeth change that much that they need to be X-rayed every damn year or two?

Methinks that X-rays are a real cash cow.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 17:27:08

Dental X-Rays
We refuse them. Maybe once every 5 years or if there is a problem tooth. Our dentist doesn’t even charge for x-rays, but the radiation exposure is a BIG concern for us.

Glowing in the dark isn’t my thing, nor is dying before my real time is up.

Same thing Slim, for the Mammogram vs. Breast Thermography (which is used in other parts of the world. Israel is in fact getting a new machine on the market). Docs have Mammo machines to pay for. If you mention a Breast MRI or a Breast Thermo to a Mammo Clinic, they don’t like it.

Yep, a real cash cow indeed, Slim!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:38:37

Slim, believe it or not, your bone structure changes significantly every 10 years.

In your teeth, that also means nerve ending are NOT where they used to be.

But an x-ray every year? This is just covering their butts in case something goes wrong or there is an infection they can’t see.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 09:13:58

Otis Elevator expected to close S. Ind. plant
Indiana news AP

September 20, 2011 (BLOOMINGTON, Ind.) — City officials in southern Indiana say it appears an Otis Elevator plant with about 200 workers will be closing next year.

The company hasn’t yet made an announcement about its Bloomington site, but Mayor Mark Kruzan (kroo-ZAN’) says indications are it will be shut down by late 2012.

Otis announced Friday that it had selected Florence, S.C., as the location for a new manufacturing center to build its new designs starting next year.

Bloomington Economic Development Corp. president Ron Walker tells The Herald-Times that his office tried to talk with Otis management about the new facility, but wasn’t given a chance to make a bid for it.

Otis had nearly 1,200 Bloomington workers in 1989 but has since shifted much of its elevator assembly work to China and Mexico.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 17:33:33

Otis Elevator “shifted much of its elevator assembly work to China and Mexico.”

Remind me to take the stairs.

If the building has too many stories, I’ll avoid it.

The elevators in our local Kaiser (multiple locations, many new) use to scare the chit out of my husband, going to his Glaucoma appts.

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2011-09-21 00:32:20

Yeah, I was already not a big elevator guy, this doesn’t help.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:40:35

South Carolina! The Mexico of the east!

Great, now we can have elevators AND aircraft made by people making $12hr. :roll:

You can’t fix that kind of stupid.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 09:19:28

NYC Dept. of Education May Layoff 800 School Aides

PROSPECT HEIGHTS (WPIX)—
Union members gathered outside M.S. 571 in Prospect Heights on Tuesday to rally against potential school layoffs.

Members of Local 372 said they believe Department of Education officials are preparing pink slips and layoff notices for nearly 800 school aides and parent coordinators.

They said, based on what they were told, most of the job losses would be felt in Central Brooklyn, Upper Manhattan and the South Bronx — communities already in need of better social services and suffering from higher unemployment rates.

Union members said over the past three years, over 2,200 valuable service members have been laid off from local schools.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 09:59:52

Teachers have also been without raises for two years, and the number of teachers is down more than 10%. Class sizes are up.

What the unions leaders didn’t say. They pushed through a deal to allow NYC teachers to retire at age 55 after 25 years of work, rather than age 62 after 30 years of work, in 2008. Then Governor Spitzer signed it just before his prostitution scandal broke, and just before Bear Stearns went down.

NYC school spending has gone up hugely since then — by $1 billion this year alone. Other services are being cut extra to pay for it. But all the money has gone to the pension plan, to make up for those who got to walk out the door years early.

NO ONE will talk about this, as everyone was in on it. The Republicans in the state legislature voted for it in exchange for teacher union support in an Upstate special election, figuring if it wrecked the city’s schools who cares. All the union controlled Dems were in favor. They even got the Mayor on board, perhaps by promising not to contradict his assertion that he was the Education Mayor if he ran for President in 2008.

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-09-20 10:27:44

Union members said over the past three years, over 2,200 valuable service members have been laid off from local schools.

There would be NO ONE LAID OFF if insane union contracts would be renegotiated so that school systems could live within the tax revenues they collect.

There is no union “brotherhood” when it comes to throwing those on the lower rungs out into the street…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:43:27

NYC is the kind of place that deserves the problems it has. :lol:

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-09-20 09:32:13

NYT layoffs about to rise again w BOA 40k and Post office 120k etc.

quote

Employers are likely to target the employees who are more junior, as they usually do,” said Daniel S. Hamermesh, an economics professor at the University of Texas, Austin. “If you’ve already exhausted your benefits for that benefit year — and Congress has said they want to shorten the duration of benefits — you’re up the creek. That’s one of the most severe worries about all this.”

Quick survey - What will people who have burnt through unemployment and savings do to survive? What will they do to feed their families?

Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 09:48:25

Consolidate. Move in with each other. Scrounge.

Shrink lifestyles. Make do. Do without. Get back to the basics.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-09-20 09:54:40

Food stamps, unless they cut that. They allow people with no other income to eat. Welfare for some.

And there are plenty of guns in this country.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 10:07:48

Consolidate. Move in with each other. Scrounge.
Shrink lifestyles. Make do. Do without. Get back to the basics.

= sweat equity

$ingle Depo$it Tran$action = $weet equity

$omething endearing about cling-on’$ & human behavior…

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 10:14:02

combo:

what would you suggest to people who dont live with their mom or dont deal drugs?

Not many other alternatives anymore

Comment by combotechie
2011-09-20 10:38:20

I have no suggestions, I can only say what it seems to me to be apparant.

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Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 13:13:28

Living with Mom is not the only consolidation option, although it is probably the easiest. Cultivate relationships. Be easy to live with. Barter your labor for shelter, while working on alternatives.

Freakonomics had an interesting chapter on drug dealing. It asked why most drug dealers live with their mothers. It turns out that drug dealing is much like athletics. A few large winners and a multitude of others who don’t make enough to support themselves.

Bartending is a better choice. A steady wage plus tips. And the barriers to entry are low.

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Comment by michael
2011-09-20 14:11:39

“Living with Mom is not the only consolidation option,”

i think it would be cool to share a McMansion with my two brother’s and their families.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 16:23:35

well Michael you have zoning laws and HOA’s that will prevent you.

But sooner or later there wont be a choice but to change them or they stay vacant and will get vandalized.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:46:53

Bartending? Maybe. It REALLY depends on where you work and you don’t start at the nice places.

That said, there are 2 jobs that really make you hate people: bartending and being a cop. :lol:

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 21:14:21

I didn’t say bartending was a good job. I think it is a step up from drug dealing. And it generally pays better than minimum wage, especially if you get the right shifts.

 
Comment by Robin
2011-09-21 00:02:44

Worked my ass off as lunch and Happy Hour setup bartender at El Paso Cantina while attaining my AA in Business with Honors, graduated to night bartender at the local Holiday Inn while I finished my BA in Business with Honors, and finally matriculated to the Disneyland Hotel to assist my completion of an MBA.

I can’t say it was a good job; I can say it was a fantastic job!! - :) (They were)

Persistence at the second-best place in town landed the first. Two or three times a week for six months. Face time and attitude. Piece of cake from there.

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 10:56:17

40K layoffs at BoA? I thought it was 30K…
It’s like the chocolate ration in 1984 all over again.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:48:06

You have problem with Corporate Communist Capitalism©®™, comrade?

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-09-20 09:53:29

Here’s to Hope we continue to Change :-)

heheeeheeeheehaahaaahaaheeehaahaaa… (Hwy50™)

(Before just 1.69 million square-foot roof just absorbin’ heat in that there tarrr, now makin’ juice for the ice-blender) ;-)

O.C. investor leases largest solar roof
September 20th, 2011, by Jon Lansner / OC Register

Dexus Property Group from Newport Beach has found a way to extend the value of a warehouse in Perris it controls: leasing the roof for solar panels.

Dexus — the U.S. slice of an Australian property manager — has leased the 1.69 million square-foot roof — that’s about 30 football fields — to Southern California Edison for what is said will be the largest solar rooftop in the United States. Whirlpool Corp. has leased the distribution center inside the warehouse since 2008.

SCE will construct a power system with 36,000 solar panels that at peak generation with “generate enough power to serve approximately 5,200 Southern California homes,” according to Dexus. The Press-Enterprise reported that this will be the 15th commercial real-estate roof with an SCE solar station.

Adds Tom Catania of Whirlpool: “We expect this building to soon include the next generation of sustainable appliances, namely smart appliances that can receive and respond to a smarter and greener electricity grid.”

Construction on the solar station should start late this year with electricity flowing in 2012.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-09-20 10:46:32

“sustainable appliances, namely smart appliances that can receive and respond to a smarter and greener electricity grid”

Bringing loads on when there is surplus power available is a better concept than square miles of batteries. I think all you need to control this is a voltage meter?

They divert Niagra Falls at night, I am told, to the electric generation station. A friend in Ontario does laundry and such only at night because the rates are cheaper.

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 11:02:08

They do. 50% of the water is diverted to the turbines during the daytime, 75% is diverted at night. Falls fans tried to set aside one day a year or so to shut off the turbines and let Niagara flow as nature intended, but it had to be nixed. It turns out that the rock cliffs wouldn’t be able to handle the shock of the doubled weight and force, and the cliffs may collapse and the falls would erode farther upstream. That’s how Niagara got to where it is in the first place: the falls eroded upstream all the way from Lake Ontario back toward Lake Erie.

(I watch far too much public television.)

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-09-20 16:27:41

and its good you do, i didnt know the extent of the diversion.

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Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 18:18:14

oxide
Interesting. I’ll have to find that show if it’s online.I’m a documentary addict myself. I also listen to NPR Science Friday and other shows.
This is on Fasomax:
How A Bone Disease Grew To Fit The Prescription
(Ladies - it’s a BS cottage industry.)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121609815

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Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:52:00

Talk about bass-ackwards!! Holy crap!

Put the solar panels on the roof then send it up the wire only to re-send it back to the building the panels are on!

(figure of speech, but the point being that it will still be metered… when the damn generator is RIGHT ON THE BUILDING THE VERY SAME BUILDING!)

People, listen to me. Get. Off. The. Power. Grid.

 
 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 10:02:42

For about 20% of Americans, God is the invisible hand of the free market.

“About one in five Americans combine a view of God as actively engaged in daily workings of the world with an economic conservative view that opposes government regulation and champions the free market as a matter of faith.

“They say the invisible hand of the free market is really God at work,” says sociologist Paul Froese, co-author of the Baylor Religion Survey, released today by Baylor University in Waco, Texas.

BLOG: What do you think?
MORE: Entrpreneurs more likely to pray, meditate
“They think the economy works because God wants it to work. It’s a new religious economic idealism,” with politicians “invoking God while chanting ‘less government,’” he says.

“When Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann say ‘God blesses us, God watches us, God helps us,’ religious conservatives get the shorthand. They see ‘government’ as a profane object — a word that is used to signal working against God’s plan for the United States. To argue against this is to argue with their religion.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-09-20/god-economy/50470304/1

People who believe like this have a lot in common with Muslim fundamentalists. They see the US government as the great Satan. No wonder they want to bring it down. And yet they seem to support the US military.

Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 10:49:18

Just like how getting sick without health insurance is a character flaw.

Comment by drumminj
2011-09-20 10:56:35

Just like how getting sick without health insurance is a character flaw.

strawman much?

Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 11:03:10

No, not much really.

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Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 11:58:26

Getting sick without health insurance is not a character flaw, but demanding medical care and expecting someone else to pick up your bills when you KNEW you weren’t covered, sure is.

Just to be fair, so is refusing to pay out claims on said insurance if you’re in the health insurance business.

Comment by drumminj
2011-09-20 13:48:03

+1

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Comment by oxide
2011-09-20 14:11:20

Other first world countries seem to avoid this problem. I don’t know how…

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Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 14:49:18

You can pay health insurance for 20 years, get laid off, choose to eat instead of pay for insurance, have an emergency and still not be deserving of care?

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Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 15:19:49

Didn’t say that, Happy. And I wasn’t commenting on the present inept/corrupt system of medical reimbursements.

I said, choosing not to support the system then demanding that someone else pick up your costs when you need to use it is a character flaw.

I’ve been advocating for a single-payer public health care system for decades; not from any “moral” consideration– as I believe that private health care is a commodity rather than a “right”– but from a practical/financial one. Eliminate the twenty-three layers of brokers and middlemen between docs and patients, and the overall costs will come down.

 
 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-09-20 10:53:36

And they have great, near absolute faith in the government’s decisions when it comes to the death penalty.

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 13:58:00

Right. Because, obviously, if the police arrest you, you must be guilty. Of something. Like maybe reminding them of the dude they didn’t like in high school or that little prick that needled them last week.

And prosecutors are never more interested in closing the case than in getting the right perpetrator, especially heinous, high profile ones. They know you did it because the police arrested you. And if the police managed to get a confession, then it must be true, because nobody would ever admit to a crime they didn’t commit. And that witness has to have ID’d the right person.

Because it is always the “other” that is the criminal. If it is one of us, a simple confession and apology will elicit our forgiveness.

Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 15:23:31

How does that old saying go?

“A conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who’s been arrested.”

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Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 18:25:41

Love it!

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 18:53:22

SUCKERS!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 10:23:15

-This should really fire up the Greek-Goons!

ITEM: Greece vows to cut state jobs before lenders phone call

ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece promised further cuts to its bloated public sector on Tuesday before a second conference call with its international lenders, whom Athens must persuade to extend more loans to avoid bankruptcy next month.

Anger over austerity among ordinary Greeks is matched by bail-out fatigue among north European creditor countries, especially Germany, Finland and the Netherlands, which are taking the toughest line on strict conditions for more money.

Protests against cuts have dwindled since early this year when the Greek capital saw bloody clashes between police and rioters, but frustration is growing again as the crisis worsens.

“They have crippled us,” said 44-year-old public sector employee Niki Playannakou, a single mother.

“We accepted the cuts last year, we put up with some things for the sake of the country. But as time goes by we don’t see things improving. How much can a family take?”

The European Union and International Monetary Fund are losing patience and increasing pressure on Athens to deliver on pledges to slash its deficit even as the economy heads toward a fourth year of recession.

“Our primary target is to shrink the state,” deputy government spokesman Angelos Tolkas said on NET radio. “The Greek state budget has stopped paying the wages of some 200,000 civil servants in the last two years. And we are continuing.”

The IMF has told Athens to cut the public sector workforce and payroll, shut inefficient state entities and fight tax evasion. The government has cut public sector pay and pensions but so far balked at sacking more civil servants, a key component of the governing Socialist party’s electorate.

Comment by goon squad
2011-09-20 11:22:39

Borrows Frank Zappa’s plastic megaphone from Joe’s Garage:

Fire it up, Goons!

Comment by MrBubble
2011-09-20 13:27:54

“Frank Zappa’s plastic megaphone from Joe’s Garage:”

You just put Warren Cuccarulo and Carmenita Scarfone in my head!

 
 
 
Comment by SOLD IN 04
2011-09-20 10:32:58

Romney, it seems, has not lost all hope–he makes several recommendations for President Obama to deal with the situation he’s helped create. “In his speech to the U.N. this week, President Obama must unequivocally reaffirm the United States’ commitment to the security of Israel and its continued existence as a Jewish state,” Romney said. “And he must make clear that if the Palestinian Authority succeeds in gaining any type of U.N. recognition, the United States will cut foreign assistance to the Palestinians, as well as re-evaluate its funding of U.N. programs and its relationship with any nation voting in favor of recognition. Actions that compromise the interests of the United States, our allies, and all those who desire a lasting peace must have consequences…ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT !!!!

Comment by BlueStar
2011-09-20 15:39:07

Ok, they have 60 to 90 nuclear weapons, a full catalog of our most lethal weapon systems and near unlimited access to our regional fuel depots. Their intelligence service knows more about what our CIA is doing than our own government does. I’m hard pressed to see where having the US give a big F.U. to the UN and rest of the Mid-East is a winning argument.

 
 
Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 11:14:18

What will it take to see an increase in interest rates? This is what I am concerned about.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 11:22:48

A crash in the bonds market.

Which is what happened during the early years of the Great Depression. Bonds were being sold at fire sale prices. If you had the cash, there were plenty of good bond deals to be snapped up.

Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 11:33:14

Bonds haven’t crashed yet, what will trigger that?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 16:46:08

An increase in interest rates will be associated with a crash the bond market. But the root cause would be something outside the endogenous feedback loop between borrowing costs and bond yields — perhaps fear of future inflation coupled with an inability or unwillingness of monetary authorities to quash the inflation risk premium in bond yields.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2011-09-20 11:47:48

U.S. says China’s tariffs on chicken threaten 300,000 jobs
By Sean Gardner, for USA TODAY

WASHINGTON (AP) – The United States says China violated international trade rules when it imposed tariffs on about $1 billion of U.S. chicken exports and has filed a complaint with the World Trade Organization.

U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk says the tariffs threaten 300,000 jobs in the U.S. poultry industry. The tariffs ranged from 50% to 100%, a U.S. trade official said.

That means some Chinese importers paid as much as twice the price for U.S. chicken.

The case is one of several that U.S. trade officials have filed against China this year at the WTO. The United States has also filed complaints about Chinese duties on steel products and its subsidies of wind power equipment.

It generally takes 12 to 18 months for the WTO to resolve a trade dispute.

Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-09-20 15:36:14

Food fight!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-09-20 15:55:44

Be careful, chickens! Don’t fly into those Chinese wind turbines!

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 19:07:28

Tell me again how protectionism is bad?

 
 
Comment by CarPort Pirate
2011-09-20 12:05:34

someone mentioned Realitors (sp) doing pole dancing and
being clowns at birthday parties to make extra income.

I could only picture large, hairy, trucker-type guys doing pole dancing
and painted,helmet hair urbanite(sp) witches being clowns at a kids party.

I am waiting for the lowly sheep to rise up and trample the ignorant bankers, gov. officials and turkey butts in general, of course I would probably die from holding my breath.

I like Hwy50 in a 49 Dodge’s opinions, I don’t drink coffee around the keyboard anymore.

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 12:29:51

Assume you mean USA here?

-When bank “assets” are marked to market.
-When municipal and union pension funds begin to default big time.
-When inflation reduces the redeemable value to zilch and treasury announces they will be paying negative returns.

Right now it’s just a balancing act between short and medium-term bonds– tweaking the interest rates and holding out on the hope that everything will “return to normal” before they come due.

The threat of Greek default has sent tons of off-shore money back into the stock market. Spain, Italy, et al promise to bump that transfer up even more. How long do you think Wall Street is going to just let it sit there without siphoning it off?

Comment by ahansen
2011-09-20 15:08:14

Not sure how this nested here; was responding to AVOCADO’s post above.

 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-09-20 15:55:23

The bonuses on Wall Street will be huge this year.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 19:09:12

They weren’t too shabby last year either.

 
 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 16:38:52

Regarding friends and family that are goons, I failed to mention that Mrs. RAL herself is a goon. And guess….. Mrs. RAL is the most egregious type of goon. A STATE GOON!

g00ny-g00-g00

Comment by Muggy
2011-09-20 18:13:06

Welfare queen!

Get a real job, moocher!

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 20:19:39

Damn straight! Shes uh…. uh… uh… socialist too! That’s right!

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 16:42:50

How does this dire global (& U.S.) economic outlook stack up against the theory that real estate always goes up?

20 September 2011 Last updated at 11:13 ET
Economy enters ‘dangerous phase’

Oliver Blanchard, director of research at the IMF, says economic recovery has “weakened sharply”

The global economy has entered a “dangerous new phase” of sharply lower growth, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

The organisation warned that continuing political and economic woes in the US and eurozone could force them back into recession.

The IMF says the prognosis for economies in the developed world is “weak and bumpy expansion”.

It predicts their GDP will expand “at an anaemic pace of 1.5% in 2011″.

The IMF believes global growth will shrink to 4% in 2012, from 5% last year, on factors such as “major financial turbulence in the eurozone”.

It slashed its growth projections for the 17-nation eurozone to 1.6% in 2011, down from 2% predicted in June. Next year growth will be 1.1%, down from 1.7%, it forecast.

The US - the world’s largest economy - is likely to have weak growth “for years to come”.

 
Comment by Muggy
2011-09-20 16:58:10

LET’S… GET…errrrRRRRREADDYYYY to RUUUUUMMBLE!!!!!

“Rick Scott, GOP to consider taking courts out of foreclosure process

TALLAHASSEE — The push is on in Florida to cut the courts out of the foreclosure process. Supporters of the concept — which is used in nearly 30 states — say it will speed foreclosures, get houses back onto the real estate market and boost the economy.”

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/rick-scott-gop-to-consider-taking-courts-out-of-foreclosure-process/1192603

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 19:10:35

Oh this should be GOOD! :lol:

 
 
Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-20 16:59:14

I guess I am not buying. The house I wanted was an ugly REO at $104k, trashed, they have 6 all cash offers over asking per the Realturd.

The $300k stuff is where the value is after spending the day looking. Bigger lots, mature landscaping, nice bones, good location. The cheap cr@p will can not be re-habbed to that no matter what you do.

Comment by Muggy
2011-09-20 17:25:32

Good. It’s still too early.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-09-20 17:32:29

Realtor is lying to you.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 17:53:03

AV0CADO
$104k ugly REO - was that priced to become a bidding war?
Where are you, and what will $300K buy you in sq ft and lot size?

Our Buyers Broker told us one SS had 5 offers to get up to pop:
1 Cash
2 20% down
3 others

The pos fell out of escrow twice, until the 3rd sucker bought it. Hasn’t closed yet… we’ll see.

Some of the REO’s and SS’s we’ve looked at were money pits. Not interested in a HUD 203K rehab loan. Too many idiot buyers out there, that’s for damn sure!

Comment by Awaiting
2011-09-20 18:01:16

to get us to pop…sorry.
AVO- we’re cash.
I talked to a title rep today in our area, and she said cash deals are rare. It’s been a year or two since she has seen one. (So Ca)
Our Broker has given us so much BS (about cash deals), it isn’t even funny.

 
Comment by AV0CADO
2011-09-21 10:37:02

Hey-
Probably too late to answer. I am looking in Nipomo and Atascadero, Not exactly Santa Barbara, but cheap, sunny and near nice places (SLO).

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-09-20 18:22:38

Is ‘intentional foreclosure’ ethical?
By Steve McLinden • Bankrate.com

Dear Steve,
I bought a home two years ago that’s now worth $120,000 less than I paid for it. Ouch! What’s more, the bank won’t touch a refinance. But I do have about $80,000 in savings. If I used it for a down payment to buy another home, then let the other go into foreclosure, could the bank come after the equity in the more recently bought home? Yes, it’s a shady thing to do, but I feel it’s my only option.
–Stephen K.

Dear Stephen,
I have been besieged with similar questions. First, it’s unlikely but not impossible that the bank would go after your equity in such a scenario. That said, I can’t in good conscience just say go ahead and arrange such an “intentional foreclosure,” even as the practice becomes increasingly common, particularly in parts of the country that saw huge artificial run-ups in home values earlier this decade.

The first effort on the part of borrowers should always be to seek loan remediation agreements with their lenders/servicers. However, based on media and trade reports, there have been relatively few good outcomes from attempting to do this. The reality is that there are tens of thousands of people out there in similarly challenging situations who are watching as homes just like theirs sell for far less than what they still owe.

I must note that there’s no absolute guarantee in most states that a buyer can just buy another house and walk away unscathed from the other one, aside from absorbing that big, ugly credit splotch, of course. That’s because states often give lenders latitude to sue borrowers in such cases.

However, such “recourse” practices are seldom employed these days because of the expense and the fact that people in these upside-down situations typically have little nonhousing wealth to pursue. Ironically, some credit experts say it will be faster and easier to re-earn a decent credit score after a foreclosure than after a bankruptcy — especially if you have established a new mortgage in the interim.

There are numerous blogs dedicated to the practice that you’re considering and some businesses, such as San Diego-based You Walk Away. Opponents to your strategy have called this “underhanded,” “cheating,” “unethical” and say that agents who facilitate this practice are just coaching people into bigger mistakes. Others say it’s the only way for some people to emerge as homeowners out of this mess.

Hopefully, there’s an important history lesson here for an industry that aggressively marketed so many risky low-down-payment or 100-percent loans with ARMs attached and a government that at least tacitly encouraged them. It’s actually an old lesson: The less skin you have in the game, the easier it is to walk away from the table.

If you do proceed, you would be wise to spend a little of that $80,000 nest egg on a legal representative to review your loan documents to determine if you will be on the hook for anything.

Read more: Is intentional foreclosure ethical? http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real-estate/is-intentional-foreclosure-ethical.aspx#ixzz1YUIbPMUF

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 19:17:55

Businesses stiff their vendors, contractors, customers and employees every day.

Big business has made it’s bed and now it’s time to lie in it.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-09-20 18:42:56

TV Preview: Hank Stuever reviews WEtv’s reality show ‘Downsized’

By Hank Stuever
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 6, 2010

It’s taken some time, but the Great Recession has at last produced a commendable reality show about the tug of shame and recompense that accompanies foreclosure, bankruptcy, underemployment, and the half-truths we tell ourselves about the economy and our personal values.

The show is WEtv’s arresting “Downsized,” which premieres Saturday night. It follows one family through money woes but also, bit by bit, chronicles the depressing loss of their middle-classdom. By no means a pure documentary, “Downsized” often feels as if Dorothea Lange had turned her lens on a downtrodden Brady Bunch: There’s a tender and no-nonsense tenor to it, which is a welcome switch from most of reality TV’s junky tropes. And since Saturday night on cable has curiously become a time in which we can communally fret about finances (a la “The Suze Orman Show” and “Til Debt Do Us Part”) “Downsized” also offers the viewer a smidge of hard-knocks catharsis.

Here is the Bruce family of Anthem, Ariz. — a Phoenix exurb — already well-wedged between their stucco-covered rock and a hard place: The 40-year-old husband, Todd, is a prideful, barrel-chested housing contractor who went belly-up in the real-estate mess. His business fell from what he says was an annual revenue of $1.5 million to zero. Hoping for a turnaround, he went bankrupt using his credit cards to meet his employees’ payroll.

His wife of five years, Laura, also 40, teaches first grade in a public school, earning $39,300 a year. Between them, Todd and Laura have seven children from their previous marriages, all of whom are among the most expensive kind of people in the world: American tweens and teens. They live together under one Spanish-tile roof — a 2,800 square-foot rental house that costs $1,700 a month. (The Bruces lost their much larger house to foreclosure in 2009, as well as a condo Todd bought as an investment property at the height of the market. With those losses went a host of luxuries — golfing, vacations, mall binges and some, but not all, of the usual array of electronica.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/05/AR2010110503763.html -

Downsized’ Renewed For A Second Season By WE TV For Summer …
4 Jan 2011 … WE TV RENEWS ORIGINAL SERIES “DOWNSIZED” FOR A … show three stars and Rachel Ray called it, “The most real reality show out there. …

10 Financial Lessons for Parents from ‘Downsized’ - DailyFinance
16 Aug 2011 … Downsized Tuesday’s season premiere of the reality show “Downsized” (We TV, 9 p.m., 8 p.m. CDT) reintroduces the Bruce-Rumsey clan of …
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/08/16/10-financial-lessons-for-parents-from-downsized/ - 113k - Cached - Similar pages

Tuesday’s season premiere of the reality show “Downsized” (We TV, 9 p.m., 8 p.m. CDT) reintroduces the Bruce-Rumsey clan of suburbanites turned dumpster divers. After getting sucked down the recession’s spiral, they’re clawing back up to rejoin the middle class.

When we met the family members on the show last year, they had two homes in foreclosure and a construction business on life support. The second season begins with the blended family of nine having a total of $18,000 in the bank. Everybody has a job, too.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-09-20 19:15:35

First, every SECOND of “reality” shows is scripted.

This is not a reality show, but a documentary. They’re just pitching it as a reality show for the avg brain dead American.

Second, I can tell you how it ends. Divorce. Or maybe not, but that’s the way to bet. :sad:

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 22:37:27

WRAPUP 3-U.S. housing starts drop underscores economic woes
Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:56pm EDT

* Aug housing starts fall 5 pct to 571,000

* Decline in starts largest since April

* Permits rise 3.2 pct to 620,000, highest since Dec (Adds IMF on recession risks, background)

By Jason Lange

WASHINGTON, Sept 20 (Reuters) - New construction of U.S. homes fell more than expected in August, dragging on economic growth and keeping pressure on President Barack Obama to do more to help the sputtering economy.

Housing starts dropped 5 percent, the most since April, to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 571,000 units, the Commerce Department said on Tuesday.

Economists polled by Reuters had forecast groundbreaking activity would fall to only a 590,000-unit rate in August. Housing starts are at less than a third of their peak during the housing boom.

The housing market is not only bad, but still missing low expectations,” said Sal Catrini, a managing director for equities at Cantor Fitzgerald & Co in New York.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 22:43:25

WRAPUP 3-U.S. housing starts drop underscores economic woes

Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:56pm EDT

* Aug housing starts fall 5 pct to 571,000

* Decline in starts largest since April

* Permits rise 3.2 pct to 620,000, highest since Dec (Adds IMF on recession risks, background)

By Jason Lange

WASHINGTON, Sept 20 (Reuters) - New construction of U.S. homes fell more than expected in August, dragging on economic growth and keeping pressure on President Barack Obama to do more to help the sputtering economy.

Housing starts dropped 5 percent, the most since April, to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 571,000 units, the Commerce Department said on Tuesday.

Economists polled by Reuters had forecast groundbreaking activity would fall to only a 590,000-unit rate in August. Housing starts are at less than a third of their peak during the housing boom.

“The housing market is not only bad, but still missing low expectations,” said Sal Catrini, a managing director for equities at Cantor Fitzgerald & Co in New York.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:21:08

ECONOMY
SEPTEMBER 20, 2011, 2:18 P.M. ET

Housing Starts Decline
By ALAN ZIBEL And JEFF BATER

U.S. home construction fell more than expected in August to the lowest level in three months as the faltering industry remained one of the weakest parts of the sluggish economy.

Construction of homes and apartments last month decreased 5.0% from a month earlier to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 571,000, the Commerce Department said Tuesday. The month’s results were pulled down by a nearly 30% drop in the Northeastern states.

The housing industry remained weak, as new home construction fell in August but there are signs that builders are hoping for a change in direction, Robbie Whelan reports on Markets Hub. (Photo: AP.)

Compared with the same month a year earlier, new-home construction in August was down 5.8%. Figures for July were revised downward to an annualized pace of 601,000.

Construction remained below a healthy level, which economists say would be around 1 million to 1.5 million starts per year.

However, builders appear to be ramping up for more construction projects. Newly issued building permits, a gauge of future construction, rose 3.2% from a month earlier to an annual rate of 620,000, the highest level since last December.

Economists surveyed by Dow Jones Newswires expected housing starts would fall by 2.3% to an annual rate of 590,000. Permits had been projected to fall 1.8% to an annual rate of 590,000.

The nation’s home builders have been battling the worst downturn in generations. New-home sales have been weak, partly due to competition from deeply discounted foreclosed properties. Other troubles for the industry include tight mortgage-lending standards and the elevated unemployment rate, both of which are sapping demand.

In July, new-home sales fell to their lowest level in five months as consumers grew more jittery about weakening economic conditions.

Construction of single-family homes, which made up 73% of all starts, fell by 1.4% from a month earlier. Construction of multifamily homes with at least two units, a volatile part of the market, was down 13.5% on a monthly basis.

Builders are remaining idle due to lackluster demand from buyers. Many buyers have been choosing foreclosures and other previously owned homes rather than new homes, which typically are more expensive.

Reflecting weak demand, fewer homes were under construction in August than at any time on records dating back to 1970.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:22:59

Housing summit: Market stabilized, but lacks buyers
By DENIS PAISTE
New Hampshire Union Leader
Published Sep 21, 2011 at 3:00 am (Updated Sep 20, 2011)

MANCHESTER — New Hampshire’s housing market has stabilized about where it was a decade ago, but factors such as the state’s aging population are putting a damper on a resurgence, experts told a housing summit on Tuesday.

“We are pretty much back to the inflation-adjusted year 2000 price for housing in the year 2011,” said Dennis Delay, an economist for New Hampshire Center for Public Policy Studies.

Factors holding back a recovery in the housing market locally include a lack of young families with children, demographer Peter Francese said.

“Only one out of five households in the state is a married couple with children,” Francese he said.

“They’re the backbone of our school systems, and when four out of five households do not have any kids in the schools that becomes an issue in school bond issues, school budgets and so forth. We need more families with children, and I hope we get them,” Francese said.

The summit, co-hosted by the Business and Industry Association of New Hampshire and the New Hampshire Housing Finance Authority, was held at the Radisson, Center of New Hampshire in Manchester.

Kendall Buck, executive vice president of the Home Builders and Remodelers Association of New Hampshire, said that at the end of July, New Hampshire housing permits were being issued at the same level as in 2007.

“We are quite a bit less than last year, but one must remember that last year there was a bump because of the new homebuyer tax credit,” he said.

“There are many, many fewer young adult households, 35 to 44 and under the age of 45 than there are 45 to 54 and beyond,” Francese said, “and that decline is driven by the fact that those young adults simply left the state.”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:25:38

Since when did it become part of the Fed’s mandate to prop up the housing market?

Bernanke Has Few Tools to Heal Economy
By Steve Matthews and John Gittelsohn - Sep 20, 2011 9:00 PM PT

U.S. mortgage rates are the lowest in at least four decades, with a 30-year fixed loan available at 4.09 percent. That didn’t help Alexis Wolf buy a townhome in Beaverton, Oregon.

“Unless you have family help, you’re stuck renting,” said Wolf, 26, a real estate broker who turned to relatives for a loan because she didn’t have the credit and employment history needed to qualify for a mortgage.

Wolf’s experience illustrates the predicament for Federal Reserve policy makers as they end a two-day meeting today to consider ways to boost economic growth. Low interest rates, the traditional medicine for a flagging economy, aren’t helping housing, which since 1982 has aided every recovery except the current one.

Sales of existing homes dropped in July to the lowest since November, and the median price slid 4.4 percent from a year earlier. Rising foreclosures, tighter lending standards and unemployment stuck near 9 percent for more than two years are all weighing on the market. Lower borrowing costs aren’t likely to make a difference, said housing economist Brad Hunter.

“The Fed’s actions probably won’t help housing in a meaningful way,” said Hunter, chief economist and national director of consulting at Metrostudy, a Houston-based housing research firm that provides data to 18 of the 20 largest U.S. builders. “The level of mortgage rates is not a major factor. Rates are at extremely attractive levels.”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:27:01

Slow sales continue to dampen confidence in housing market
By Martha C. White

The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index for September dropped one point from August, new data released Monday show, reflecting builders’ low confidence both in the market today and in the prospect of improvement in six months.

September’s number was 14, one point down from the measure of 15 in both July and August. The figures for single-family sales both now and in six months all fell, as did the measure of prospective buyer traffic. (Builder sentiment is measured on a 100-point scale, with figures below 50 indicating a negative view of the market and above 50 indicating optimism.)

Even though mortgage rates are hovering near record lows, sales of single-family homes remain moribund.

“Builders continue to confront the same challenges in accessing construction credit, obtaining accurate appraisal values for new homes, and competing against foreclosed properties that they have seen for some time,” NAHB Chairman Bob Nielsen said in a statement. The downgrading of U.S. debt by Standard & Poor’s, a volatile stock market and political wrangling over the nation’s debt ceiling also dragged on the housing market, he adds.

The index has hovered between 13 and 17 for the past 12 months. September’s figure is one point higher than it was one year ago. This month, nearly all regions of the country fared worse. The exception was the Midwest, where builder confidence rose a single point from 10 to 11. Confidence dropped by two points in the Northeast and South, and by three points in the West.

The large number of distressed properties and the slow speed at which they are being reabsorbed into the market both lower current and future confidence. This process has actually slowed since last year, according to The Wall Street Journal, as allegations of fraud and robo-signing has kept banks from selling foreclosed homes and making buyers leery of purchasing them. Until the legal logjam is broken, builders are unlikely to see many encouraging signs for housing.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:32:00

How is the luke-warm fall sales season shaping up? And how about that housing bottom — still scheduled for the end of next year?

U.S. housing starts tumble
Reuters Sep 20, 2011 – 8:56 AM ET | Last Updated: Sep 20, 2011 9:24

U.S. housing starts fell more than expected in August as groundbreaking for both single-family and multi-family units declined, while permits for future construction rose, a government report showed on Tuesday.

The Commerce Department said housing starts decreased the most since April, down 5.0% to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 571,000 units.

July’s starts were revised down to a 601,000 unit pace, which was previously reported as a 604,000 unit rate.

Economists polled by Reuters had forecast housing starts to fall to a 590,000-unit rate in August.

An overhang of previously owned homes on the market has left builders with little appetite to break ground on new projects and is frustrating the economy’s recovery from the 2007-09 recession.

Housing starts are at less than a third of their peak during the housing boom.

Compared to August of last year, starts were down 5.8%.

Housing starts for multi-family homes fell 13.5% to a 154,000-unit rate. Single-family home construction — which accounts for a larger share of the market — dropped 1.4% to a 417,000-unit pace.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:33:20

Market Features
Homebuilders’ Shares Mostly Rise On Housing Data
By The Associated Press 09/20/11 - 01:57 PM EDT

Stock quotes in this article:
BZH, HOV, KBH, LEN, MDC, MHO, MTH, NVR, RYL, SPF, TOL

LOS ANGELES (AP) Shares of homebuilding companies traded mostly higher Tuesday despite a government report that showed builders broke ground on fewer homes in August.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:35:14

Monday, Sep. 19, 2011
US home builder outlook worsens in September
By DEREK KRAVITZ - AP Real Estate Writer

WASHINGTON — The U.S. homebuilders’ outlook worsened in September, as foreclosures and anxious buyers hurt construction and sales activity.

The National Association of Home Builders said Monday that its index of builder sentiment in September fell to 14 from 15. The index has been below 20 for all but one month during the past two years.

Any reading below 50 indicates negative sentiment about the housing market. It hasn’t reached 50 since April 2006, the peak of the housing boom.

Last year, the number of people who bought new homes fell to its lowest level dating back nearly a half-century. Sales this year haven’t fared much better.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-09-20 23:39:03

This sounds promising. Got popcorn?

Nevada AG puts Bank of America on notice over foreclosures

CATHLEEN ALLISON / SPECIAL TO THE LAS VEGAS SUN
Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto at her Carson City office.
Monday 19 September 2011 3 a.m.

Call it Nevada’s version of David versus Goliath.

As foreclosures continue and homeowners cry foul against lenders in their bids to stay in their homes, Nevada’s Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto is taking on Bank of America in federal court. And the issue is going to heat up as Cortez Masto’s office investigates BofA and other parties in the foreclosure process. She says criminal charges are likely coming to the industry soon, which could provide more ammunition for her foreclosure fraud case.

 
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