The Price Is Key In Florida
The News Journal reports from Florida. “West Volusia Realtor Kim Laney has been trying to sell a three-bedroom, 1,216-square-foot home here since January. The home on Catalina Boulevard was initially listed at $89,900, the same price the current homeowner paid three years ago. However, that is far below the $216,500 a previous owner paid during the housing boom in 2005. Interest was slow at first before the asking price was dropped to $69,000, almost the same price it sold for in 1999, she said.”
“Laney remains hopeful that the house will get sold — eventually. ‘Right now the price is key,’ she said.”
The Herald Tribune. “A dangerously high percentage of mortgage-holders in Sarasota, Charlotte and Manatee counties are now spending more than 35 percent of their income on their mortgage, property insurance and taxes, and other major home expenses, new census data shows. Economists say that phenomenon is a definitive warning sign of further foreclosures.”
“Port Charlotte’s John Cannon says he paid way too much — about $210,000 — for a home during the boom that he would be lucky to sell today for $125,000. ‘It’s a gorgeous house,’ said Cannon, who is no relation to the Lakewood Ranch builder of the same name. ‘I gave them way too much money, I don’t know what I was thinking. But I make the payments. It hurts every month I write that check.’”
“But not writing it is simply not an option for Cannon, who says walking away from an agreement is unthinkable. It is not the kind of message he would like to send to his 16-year-old son.”
The St Petersburg Times. “Keith and Bernadette Grindley have three homes in foreclosure yet found a way to make money from the experience. They put up the homes for rent. Over the last two years, the Grindleys collected more than $150,000 on their luxury homes in St. Pete Beach and Belleair. As of last month, the Grindleys and at least 2,009 others in the Tampa Bay area were renting out homes in the foreclosure process, collectively taking in millions of dollars. And those numbers are conservative.”
“A 2009 article in the DuPont Registry magazine said that Keith Grindley worked for Hammerscotts Homes. It is not listed in Florida corporate records. The article quoted the Grindleys as regretting having to sell the Belleair home. ‘What I’ll miss most is the scale and scope of the rooms and the immediate proximity to the Belleair Country Club, where I play tennis several times a week,’ Bernadette Grindley told the magazine. The Times could not reach the Grindleys for comment.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “A 2010 Sentinel analysis of foreclosures versus short sales in neighborhoods throughout Orange County found that about 80 percent of all ‘distress’ sales were foreclosures in ZIP codes with high numbers of renters and large numbers of families living below the poverty level — mostly, though not exclusively, black and Hispanic neighborhoods.”
“Former Pine Hills resident Sylvia Ruiz said that, even though she dutifully paid her rent there, she came home one day last year to find paperwork warning that her house was headed to foreclosure. Her absentee landlord, like many others, had pocketed her rent payments without paying the mortgage. ‘I have a 10-year-old and a soon-to-be 7-year-old. I chose to move right away,’ the single mother said. ‘The one thing I did not want was for them to move my stuff outside and for those children to experience that.’”
“During the 2003-07 homebuying frenzy that preceded the recession, a disproportionate share of minority buyers were persuaded to finance their purchases with dangerous, ’subprime’ mortgages. ‘We were targeted, no doubt,’ said Vickie Johnson, a black homeowner and full-time worker in Altamonte Springs who is also taking a full load of college classes. ‘People were coming to the house and asking if we needed extra cash — so we could take out a mortgage.’ Johnson’s recent attempts to get Bank of America to permanently modify her mortgage have failed, and she hopes a lawyer she has hired can save her house from foreclosure.”
The Tampa Tribune. “Former Florida Highway Patrol trooper Shaun Leo Reid pleaded not guilty Wednesday to charges of mortgage fraud involving more than $100,000. Reid was arrested earlier this month for allegedly lying about his income on federal loan documents used to buy a south Tampa investment home. His lawyer, Ray Lopez, said Reid had no idea he was part of a fraudulent home deal and was ‘duped.’ He said he questions whether investigators went after Lopez in part because of his job in law enforcement.”
“Lopez, Reid’s lawyer, said someone else added this information of Reid’s loan application. ‘It’s pretty conceivable how this could happen if you’re not the one sending the info to the bank,’ Lopez said.”
“Reid, who collected a salary of $41,000, paid $500,000 for a home in Tampa’s posh Beach Park neighborhood in 2008. Wells Fargo foreclosed on the Azeele St. home earlier this year and sold the property for $280,000 in June.”
From WPEC. “Many Floridians facing foreclosure get to stay in their homes for a couple of years before losing their houses. But that could change. A plan to take the foreclosure process out of the courts is gaining support with Florida lawmakers. A similar proposal introduced last year was defeated after an uproar from homeowners. But it’s expected to be filed again.”
“Bankers say it’s a more efficient way to manage foreclosure cases and get thousands of properties back on the market to help pull Florida out of it’s housing rut. But Foreclosure defense attorney Dustin Zacks disagrees. ‘If we speed up the process and eliminate judicial oversight there’s gonna be more problems there will be more houses back in the market which will further depress the market,’ said Zacks.”
News 4 Jax. “Clay County deputies arrested Marcellous Dunbar, who claims to be a pastor at a local church, Friday evening on accusations he’s been squatting at a $500,000 home in Oakleaf Plantation for the past few days. Marcellous Dunbar appeared in court Saturday morning. He was charged with grand theft and burglary. Dunbar said he filed paperwork for adverse possession– a controversial Florida statute that allows change of ownership to a home.”
“But Clay County officials decided he didn’t have the right to the home and charged him with felonies. The arrest comes after Channel 4’s Jim Piggott questioned Dunbar earlier Friday about living at the home he doesn’t own. ‘What’s going on with the house?’ Piggott asked Dunbar. ‘It was adversely possessed,’ Dunbar said. ‘It was in foreclosure. Do your homework.’”
“‘I did my homework,’ Piggott said. ‘We are allowed to be here. This isn’t your house. It isn’t in adverse possession. It was taken illegally,’ Piggott said. ‘There has not been any taxes paid on this. There is a new homeowner moving in today. Your furniture is going out on the street. This is all according to police. They are looking for you to make an arrest. How could you just come into a place? This isn’t your house.’”
“There are three other houses in the neighborhood for which Dunbar and others have filed similar paperwork. At one of the homes Friday, the front door was left open and no one was in site.”
First First Coast. “The housing market has been mired in the foreclosure crisis, but it looks like the industry has finally found solid ground. ‘We see drastic improvements,’ said Dane Leslie, president of the Northeast Florida Association of Realtors, adding that home sales are up and inventory is down. Leslie said supply is low and rental rates are up. ‘We saw 20 percent drop in the number of homes that came on the market versus August of last year,’ he said.”
“Leslie is also optimistic about the future. ‘I think the picture is strong; we’re not going to get back to the wild days we had for several years in the early 2000s, but I think we’re going to get back to a more realistic housing market that we can sustain. I think we’re there,’ he said.”
I spent the weekend checking out a foreclousure in Miami. The price didnt matter as much as the $9000 annual property tax for a 2 beddrom 1400 sq ft home was absurd.
In public union goon states - that would be about average…
Even worse is the uncapped HOA fees. On my last rental, there were $500/mo and likely to go higher as more people walked away. It’s tough to break even when T+I+HOA are more than the going market rents.
I don’t know where you’ve been, but welcome back. I think I appreciated your comments on the Tampa social scene as much as your housing insights.
Thanks for the comment. I’ve been around, frankly I was burned out about talking about the bubble. I also started to think that J6P finally understood the true situation. Unfortunately, it seems I was wrong. I haven’t noticed any major changes in the Tampa social scene, it seems bankruptcy and living above ones means still go hand in hand and are applauded.
What is the property assesed for?
Property taxes are very high in Texas too, but I doubt Texas would be considered a “union goon state”. I guess high schools in the Lone Star state consider having football facilities that many colleges would envy as a “necessity” along with a very well paid coaching staff.
There is no state income tax in Texas. The money to run the governments has to come from somewhere.
Neither does Florida. So why is it OK for property taxes to be high in Texas but not in Florida? Is it simply because there are a few thousand overpaid firefighters in Florida?
I would say $9000 for taxes would put that 1400 sq ft house at about $350k (at peak), which is a high price for a 1400 sq ft residence. It’s in a fancy area or it’s about to be reassessed downwards since most assessments are not done yearly but every 3-5 years.
A 1400 sq ft home with only two bedrooms is absurd. 1400 sq ft is enough for a 3-bed home with lots of sq ft left over.
The St Petersburg Times. “Keith and Bernadette Grindley have three homes in foreclosure yet found a way to make money from the experience. They put up the homes for rent. Over the last two years, the Grindleys collected more than $150,000 on their luxury homes in St. Pete Beach and Belleair. As of last month, the Grindleys and at least 2,009 others in the Tampa Bay area were renting out homes in the foreclosure process, collectively taking in millions of dollars. And those numbers are conservative.”
Why do I think the Grindleys have not saved a dime of that money?
Oh 2 they have its just not visable to a state agency or IRS. Got gold?
I know you’re right but just had to answer
If you’re not going to pay taxes on it, then you probably shouldn’t be crowing about it in the media.
“During the 2003-07 homebuying frenzy that preceded the recession, a disproportionate share of minority buyers were persuaded to finance their purchases with dangerous, ’subprime’ mortgages. ‘We were targeted, no doubt,’ said Vickie Johnson, a black homeowner and full-time worker in Altamonte Springs who is also taking a full load of college classes. ‘People were coming to the house and asking if we needed extra cash — so we could take out a mortgage.’
We were TARGETED! They forced us to take the money! My gawd - they actually came to our house and begged us to take their money. How can life be this hard and unfair?
What was I supposed to do? Not open the door? Just say no? Actually read the documents? Actually PAY BACK THE LOAN?
Plus if we did not get a loan - we could sue for redlining!
Well, maybe they were targeted. But they took the money didn’t they? Unless they were mentally unfit to make the deal, or some other illegal action was there, they owe the lender. Plus, we’re probably looking at refinancing, so they sold the house to the bank for damn good money. They are probably better off walking away. What is going on, IMO, is some of these folks want to keep the house AND the money.
Some of you think S&P was wrong to downgrade the US debt. But where is personal accountability in these stories? Stop paying the loan and rent the place out. Then get lawyers involved, drag it out even longer and cry victim the whole time! What does the govt do? Borrows money to not only “rescue” the lenders but pay people to keep paying their loan.
Oh well, it’s not that much more absurd than borrowing money to dig ditches and fill them in again.
“…some of these folks want to keep the house AND the money.”
Seems rational to max out on your free stuff — kind of like the enterprising Tampa deadbeats mentioned elsewhere in this thread who stopped paying their mortgages, then set up shop as landlords during the protracted time period until when the bank finally gets around to foreclosing.
This is what happened to me. Having paid $39k in rent to a landlord who I doubt ever paid the bank. We did a month-to-month lease and in the end I lost the lease right after the owner was sued by the mortgage holder in foreclosure. They wanted me gone, I suspect to keep me from making the statement in court that I had been paying rent for 3 years. It worked out okay for me though, I enjoyed the place while it lasted and it was time to move on.
We have an excellent relationship with our landlord, but after a couple years of renting to us, he has indicated that he intends to sell the house next spring. I don’t blame him; I’d want to sell also.
We had a ridiculous and epic struggle to find a good rental situation before, and we don’t care to repeat it. If anyone has bought from their current landlord, I’d appreciate knowing how you approached it. I have a price in mind, I have researched comparable sales, and I know how much the landlord owes on the house. For what it’s worth, he is not underwater.
We have an excellent relationship with our landlord, but after a couple years of renting to us, he has indicated that he intends to sell the house next spring. I don’t blame him; I’d want to sell also.
Methinks that the current crop of all-cash “investment” home buyers will soon be feeling the same way. After all, landlording isn’t as easy as those weekend seminars say it is.
We have an excellent relationship with our landlord, but after a couple years of renting to us, he has indicated that he intends to sell the house next spring. I don’t blame him; I’d want to sell also.
Exact same thing happened to us two years ago. That’s how we ended up killing time in the trailer park. Didn’t feel like playing musical rentals (at a significant price) any more while we waited…
This is why I’m afraid to rent from a single landlord — I never know when the sherriff will come knocking. But if you live in a commercial complex, you get shafted by “market price,” aka Section 8 + double-ups.
“We had a ridiculous and epic struggle to find a good rental situation before, and we don’t care to repeat it. If anyone has bought from their current landlord, I’d appreciate knowing how you approached it. I have a price in mind, I have researched comparable sales, and I know how much the landlord owes on the house. For what it’s worth, he is not underwater.”
Same here and same here. Actually, our LLs own outright and paid it off A LONG time ago. I might be royally screwed. What I am willing to pay and what some places around have been going for is a difference of about $100k.
I have no idea what will happen next July, but the rental situation is infinitely worse here than when I moved (for the 4th time in as many years) in 2010.
Here is my plan:
1. Quietly try to renew for same terms/price
2. If they want to sell only, I will offer to buy at average of comps (house is in average shape).
3. If that doesn’t work, and they want to raise rent, I will ask that any raise be considered rent-to-own.
If nothing works and we have to move I will cry.
Seems rational to max out on your free stuff
And why not? Goldman and Exxon have entire staffs of lawyers who are highly paid to max out on their free stuff. And they have their own mechanism of whining: CNBC and WSJ.
Exactly. The FBs are just doing exactly what the rich and big biz have been doing all along. Working the law to their advantage.
“What is going on, IMO, is some of these folks want to keep the house AND the money.”
You better believe they do. And there is a very loud and strong element out there representing their position. Now all of a sudden, everyone was robo-signed, lawyers get involved and what should have been a simple foreclosure action is now a question of who owns the house.
The message is simple and bears repeating. If you’re in default, YOU don’t own the house.
Actually, if you don’t hold the mortgage note, you don’t own the home.
Mortgages should be seen what the are, a long-term rental agreement with the firm option to take the note at the end of it.
I get targeted all of the damn time!! I get pre-approved credit cards in the mail that I never even applied for. The credit cards I DO have keep sending me blank checks for cash advances at astronomical rates! Realtors keep calling me up and trying to sell me horribly overpriced houses in zero lot-line developments with smothering HOAs and telling me that ‘there has never been a better time to buy’!! Where is MY bailout! Where is MY ‘get out of jail free’ card?! Where is MY friggin’ White Knight to save me from my own sloth, greed and lack of common sense?! I need a HERO! I’m holdin’ out for a hero till the morning liiiight! But he’s gotta’ be swift and he’s gotta’ be sure and he’s gotta’ have a case of Bud Liiiight!! Oooph. I think I just pooped a little when I hit that last high note.
Getting near the price a $500 week J6P can afford.
Interest was slow at first before the asking price was dropped to $69,000, almost the same price it sold for in 1999, she said.”
Let’s check out West Volusia and environs:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/536-Hemingway-Ct-Deland-FL-32720/47943343_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
1991 3/2 1200 sq ft on 0.1 acre. Needs a refrigerator and new carpet, but the kitchen is livable and the house is still pretty okay:
Nov 1994: Sold $59,500
Jan 2006: Sold $180,000
—Chase market down dooby doo down down—
Aug 2011: Listed $60K
If I assume $3000 down and 4% interest, that’s a $468/month PITI payment, per Zillow. The $500 a week worker could afford this easily. Even a two-income minimum wage family could afford it, frugally.
Holy cow. Maybe I should think about moving to FL…
At those prices, you could afford to run the A/C non-stop.
Speaking of AC, we just had ours replaced. Our bill went from $350 t0 $180.
Yikes!
Muggy, was that due to a more efficient unit, better sized for the home, or something else?
“As of last month, the Grindleys and at least 2,009 others in the Tampa Bay area were renting out homes in the foreclosure process, collectively taking in millions of dollars. And those numbers are conservative.”
It seems fraudulent to extract rent from others on a home on which you have stopped making payments. But I guess if thousands of people in the Tampa Bay area are taking in millions of dollars by the practice, it must be perfectly legal?
Read the article. This is only houses listed for sale. Meanwhile the Grindleys are thought to be out of the country!
As bad as this is, there’s one other thing to consider; the loan servicers are using this opportunity to withhold inventory and sell REOs for more than they would get otherwise. I pity the fool that is taking that bait:
‘The home on Catalina Boulevard was initially listed at $89,900, the same price the current homeowner paid three years ago. Interest was slow at first before the asking price was dropped to $69,000′
‘Laney remains hopeful that the house will get sold — eventually’
It’s legal. Why wouldn’t it be? I’ve paid rent for years with no freaking idea whether the landlord was keeping up on payments. If he currently has right to enjoyment of the property, he can rent it out. The whole point of foreclosure is to cut off that right.
The fraudulent part would be implying to the tenant that they will be able to stay indefinitely. Upon an abrupt eviction they have an action against the LL but only for the lost rent & maybe inconvenience.
And the LL better be declaring the rental income, and writing down the basis if they are depreciating the property.
“It’s legal. Why wouldn’t it be?”
The ‘owner’ broke the contract which says he has to make mortgage payments in order to enjoy the rights and privileges of ownership. Creditors (probably U.S. taxpayers, given all the federal guarantees that have recently been slapped onto mortgages of all stripes) are getting stiffed while the deadbeat is collecting rent.
It seems like this should be illegal, even if it is not.
the renters are free to take their chances on not being evicted, just as the LL takes his chances on not being foreclosed. But the LL’s original promise to pay was made to the lender.
I guess you could come up with rental contracts that make rent contingent on third party payments.
I continue to be amazed at statements I hear about Florida real estate that is an “amazing deal”. Florida had major booms/busts in the 1920s, 1980s, prices never really recovered until 2000 when they took off. A decent portion of the housing stock is the crap built between 1995 and 2005 when not an extra dime was spared in the construction, resulting in homes that will age quickly. A common theme especially the last years of the boom was to build homes with two stories, floorplans that require two A/C units to keep the house livable in the summer.
What Florida needs is a long term smart growth plan, and a large piece should be redevelopment of urban areas in cities. All major FL cities are suffering from urban decay, as trashy strip malls often serve as fronts for nice neighborhoods hidden behind. This is what a lack of zoning brings.
Its certain that there are some good deals to be had in Florida real estate if you’re either looking for a primary residence or a long term value play, by and large the quick flippers and short time horizon people should steer clear.
2 A/C units is an intelligent thing, not a bad thing. It allows your A/C to be zoned much more efficiently, ie and theoretically no A/C on upstairs when you are downstairs in the family area; no A/C downstairs in the family area when you are upstairs sleeping.
Blocking off vents in rooms you are not using leads to some percentage of leak from the A/C as A/C lines are not nearly as well made or sealed as plumbing lines are, and overtime the insulation wrap and leaks are not typically maintained.
On your other point -
What Florida needs is a long term smart growth plan, and a large piece should be redevelopment of urban areas in cities. All major FL cities are suffering from urban decay, as trashy strip malls often serve as fronts for nice neighborhoods hidden behind. This is what a lack of zoning brings.
—
The entire US is suffering from this, and I completely agree that an intelligent growth plan would rightly end generic strip malls set back with huge parking lots in the front. Alas, they are still being built everywhere.
I think planning dept dogma opposes this kind of thing, but all it takes is for a strip mall promoter to come along when there is a lull in local business activity, when no politician one wants to hold up the development and look anti-business.
They’re not about to give free rein to the planning wonks.
Florida cities will have a plan, all right, but it won’t involve growth and it won’t be voluntary. It will be a contraction, much like Detroit and Flint have contracted, and Las Vegas and Phoenix will contract, and the challenge will be to manage it. I’m not optimistic.
We may squander our last resources subsidizing developers to build subdivisions and malls and golf courses in exurbs, in a degenerate commercial version of “Field of Dreams,” because we just don’t know how to do anything differently. We may build it, but they won’t come.
The Passionists priests got out near the peak.
Developers once again eyeing new condominium projects
By Alexandra Clough Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 5:27 a.m. Monday, Sept. 26, 2011
Is Palm Beach County about to be hit by a new wave of condo projects?
Kolter Group LLC is dusting off plans for a North Palm Beach condominium that was commenced during the housing boom and shelved when the boom went bust.
The move comes as Related Group recently unveiled plans for a 506-unit, two-tower condo in West Palm Beach’s north end. The property formerly was known as Icon, which was planned during the real estate run-up as a luxury tower with only 150 units but was iced due to the recession.
Kolter vice president Bob Vail said the company will relaunch the North Palm Beach condo, known as Domani (Italian for “tomorrow”) in the fall of 2012. Look for more units, lower prices and smaller square footage per unit.
Also look for a different, fresher name that doesn’t evoke the Italianite excesses of the recent real estate bubble.
n 2004, Kolter paid $23.5 million for seven acres overlooking the Intracoastal Waterway in North Palm Beach, about a half-mile south of PGA Boulevard on the east side of U.S. 1. The property formerly was owned by an order of Passionists priests.
Kolter’s goal at the time: a luxury waterfront community, with condo prices ranging from $3 million to $8 million. About 15 of the 77 unbuilt condo units were pre-sold, with plans to open in 2006.
But the project screeched to a halt in January 2007, a casualty of a residential condo market deemed “dead” by a Kolter executive, who pledged Domani would resume when the market improved.
That time is soon, but not tomorrow.
Kolter considered bringing Domani back this fall but decided the market hasn’t recovered enough yet. So plans are to launch in 2012, with completion set for 2014, “three years from today,” Vail said.
Here’s the thinking: (My pumkin I`d be scrathchin with the thoughts that I`d be hatchin if I only had a brain)
“There’s not going to be new product in over five years,” Vail said. “And we’ll have new features,” in line with the trends taking place in construction now.
In addition, with sales continuing in Kolter’s Two City Plaza condo in West Palm Beach, Vail says the feeling is that “real buyers are back in the market. People are back thinking about the quality of the unit, and not just how cheaply can I buy it.”
Cheap isn’t in, but neither is excessive luxury.
Kolter is downscaling the size of the units, and more than doubling the number of them planned, to bring the total to 168. Prices are lower, too, with units costing from $600,000 to $1.5 million.
While Kolter’s condo will have more units, it still will be a far cry from the ambitious 506 unit-complex Related plans for its land along North Flagler Drive.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/developers-once-again-eyeing-new-condominium-projects-1879470.html - -
“[T]he Italianite excesses of the recent real estate bubble.”
________________________/
One of my pet peeves is giving a subdivision or condo building an Italian name to establish cachet among buyers who likely have never been to Italy.
I rent and live in Two City Plaza by Kolter. It is one of the finest buildings in all of Downtown. There are 2 movie theatres (one on the roof) and a ton of amenities such as a consierge, massage room, and valet. I like it but what this article doesn’t state is that Kolter couldn’t even come close to selling a fraction of the 500 units in this building. They’ve been subrogated to be accidental landlords to a large percentage of the units.
So why they are planning another opulent building 8 miles up the road is beyond me.
I guess the adage “builders know only how to build” is applicabe to them. They must have economists on staff that dissuade them from gambling on this new endeavor but they seem to fight the rational…
The good news: two decades from now it may (once again) be possible to retire to modest two-bedroom cottage within a long walk from the beach in Florida.
The bad news: there is likely to be a meth lab protected by gang bangers with Uzis next door.
What do you mean two decades from now? This is mostly how it is today.
Looking at recent sold houses on the zillow site vs current listings on the realtor.com site, I can’t help noting the huge gulf between sellers’ wishing prices and the actual prices homes are going for in my old nabe.
Doing some in-my-head math, the average selling price is less than 2/3 of the average asking price.
Also, after not having done it in probably six months, I looked at current listings in the Daytona-area nabe some friends bought into in 2006 (at the peak!). Something very similar in size and age, with an equivalent pool/spa, is now ASKING about 60% less than what they PAID.
Doing some in-my-head math, the average selling price is less than 2/3 of the average asking price.
There’s a whole lotta house price wishin’ goin’ on!
The same is happening in DC. A whole lotta low-balling going on, methinks.
FWIW, the Grindley’s house in SPB is badass. IMHO, Boca Ciega Isle is one of the coolest little ‘hoods around here. I was following a short sale there and it went for too much.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=boca%20ciage%20isle&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&hl=en&biw=1202&bih=674&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il
There’s a little waterfront park there, too, for people not on the water itself.
Whoops, try this:
http://g.co/maps/zk8sp
And here’s one of the houses they’re renting out:
http://g.co/maps/dzn4s
Hey Bubba, where do you live now?
I keep thinking that I’d like to leave FL, but everyone tells me to stay put and that I’d end up retiring here anyway. My biggest concern is for my children. Have any HBB’ers raised their kids here? My wife has some family from the area and they all turned out fine, but I just can’t imagine a childhood without the change of seasons. I remember in elementary school when everyone would run to the window at the site of the first snowflake.
I talked to my sister yesterday and she said the economy is worsening up there. Her husband works for Xerox and they never know what that will bring. She said a ton of people she knows are either out of work or underemployed for $12/hr. She has an engineer friend who works for Paetec and he’s pretty sure he’ll be unemployed at some point in the near future.
I apologize if this annoys anyone. My wife has a friend on FB that lives in SC and constantly pines for NY and we’re both like, “move already!” The smarter 1/2 of me says stay here and keep the jobs. I just don’t know. Struggling anywhere sucks. Most people tell me that my kids will just be Florida kids and to them mountains will be what the beach was to us and they’ll grow up boating, fishing, skimboarding, and throwing rocks at alligators instead of snowballs at cars.
We’ll see. My littleman is 3.5 and my littelgal is almost two, so we have some time before they remember all of this.
You have a job. Your kids are healthy and happy.
The grass over the fence is not greener. Say that to yourself over and over.
And I have met many adults who grew up in Florida. They are very normal.
Insurance Guy, whereabouts are you located, if you don’t mind my asking?
I mean, I’m not talking about an address or anything, just a general area of the country. I got the impression you might be in Western North Carolina, is that right?
Greer, South Carolina.
Thanks, Insurance guy. I will be a good dad, and they’ll be fine in school, I just want to make sure they cherish where they grow up the way I cherish where I grew up.
“I keep thinking that I’d like to leave FL, but everyone tells me to stay put and that I’d end up retiring here anyway.”
Me, too, but Florida is not the only place to retire. I’m considering, as I’ve said, Western North Carolina, which has its share of retirement areas, a mild four seasons (unless you’re in the Boone area, which gets quite cold for longer periods).
The most important thing is being able to provide for your family and if you’ve got a decent gig here, just work it until you can sit your azz in another tub of butter elsewhere like our buddy Sean Snaith.
Florida kids are just fine and besides, you gotta admit we do have some pretty good football here.
“Florida kids are just fine and besides, you gotta admit we do have some pretty good football here.”
Yeah, look at the Miami Hurricanes;)
Yeah, OK, college football is going through some stuff right now, the Hurricanes are not the only team having issues (thanks for lowering the bar, thugmaster Jimmuh). Our Bulls are coming along nicely, but then again, Selmon was a much better example than the thugmaster Jimmuh.
As to pro, heck, we’ve got three teams. The Bucs might actually have some hope this year. Dunno what the Dolphins’ problem is.
Hey Palmetto, I am not dissing Fl football. I actually graduated USF in 1989-before they had football. I just think that the thugmasters reside at UM. I didn’t mean to excoriate a whole State by one team’s thuggery:)
As far as the ‘fins, they are only 3 games in, yet I feel even if they go on a 7-0 run, they will still manage to lose the the last 6 and miss the playoffs. They need new management imho.
Western North Carolina is very nice to retire in. I would look in the Greenville, SC area and just drive a few miles into the mountains. Greenville is just a wonderful city for those who are retired.
Clemson football but you can’t have everything.
Muggy-
I live in Charlotte, NC now. I grew up on Long Island and moved to Pinellas County in ‘92.
As the old saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
As far as raising your kids goes, that’s a very personal decision for you and your wife to make. One reason why I left NYS was because of the high cost of living. I really enjoyed living in the Tampa Bay area in the 90’s before things got crazy with the housing markets.
It’s tough to move and leave behind your friends and your social networks. It may be easier building a new social network when your kids are as young as yours are.
I miss living close to the water, but I don’t miss the hurricanes.
It’s nice having four seasons again, but nothing beats spending the winter in Florida.
Thanks for the input. I think part of the problem is we’re running non-stop/24/7 with the kids. When they are a little more autonomous and independent (and by this I mean potty-trained and speaking) things will be a little less hectic and we’ll be able to explore the area more.
I do look forward to taking my kids kayaking on Weeki Wachee and things like that. Plus, there are a lot of sports teams here and TONS of entertainment (like PBR, monster trucks, Disney, etc.). None of that is a replacement for simple family fun at home (running through the sprinkler), but it’s great as an option.
I may have to repost to the next FL, but those of you that are familiar with the SE US, where is the closest place I can go in the fall to catch some color and mountain dryness? N.Georgia?
N Georgia.