October 2, 2011

Bits Bucket for October 2, 2011

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




RSS feed

211 Comments »

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:11:47

California AG Rejects Deal With Banksters
October 1, 2011 | Author Dave Bradley

In a surprise move yesterday, California Attorney General Kamala Harris rejected the proposed 50 state deal settlement on mortgage fraud.

The negotiations with banking interests are being led by Iowa Atty. General Tom Miller. New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has been critical of the direction that these negotiations have taken. However he has not withdrawn from the deal as yet.

“In a letter sent Friday to Associate U.S. Attorney General Thomas Perrelli and Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who have been leading the negotiations, Ms. Harris said her decision to break off from the group was driven by two key concerns. “It became clear to me that California was being asked for a broader release of claims than we can accept and to excuse conduct that has not been adequately investigated,” she said.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 07:55:21

I wonder how many people named their daughters “Kamala” after reading Herman Hesse’s “Sidhartha”? IIRC The basically means “lust” in Hindi.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 08:44:10

She is Indian; without even bothering to check I am 99% certain that Kamala is a similarly common name for Indian women as Jesus is for Puerto Rican men.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 08:45:14

P.S. I love that book, but unfortunately my copy has gone missing…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:54:05

IIRC there were two “lust” people in the book: Kamala the Courtesan and Kamaswami the Businessman.

 
2011-10-02 10:33:34

Kamala means “lotus”.

Kama means “love”, “lust”, etc. in all its forms.

They are not related even though they share a root.

– FPSS (who took a lot of Sanskrit classes in grad-school as an alleviation for boredom.)

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 16:46:06

‘Kamala means “lotus”.’

Thx for enlightening us; was hoping you would weigh in.

P.S. Daughter is looking into attending NYU. If we come out for a visit, I expect to share a meal with you…

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 08:46:53

Regardless of her ethnicity, if she is actually putting the public interest ahead of the monied interests, and upholding the rule of law, she is far more American than most of her peers in “public service.”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:52:43

I guess she might have a “lust” for the public interest :-)

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 12:16:32

Instead of a lust for selling her soul to the Republicrat-Wall Street alliance at the public’s expense.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:19:32

This is rather unexpected and amazing.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:14:00

bankster Noun

A portmanteau or blend word derived from combining “banker” and “gangster.” Usually referred to in the plural form “banksters” to refer to a predatory element within the financial services industry, such as those offering “too good to be true” adjustable mortgage rates for home buyers:
The banksters just foreclosed on my mom’s Mcmansion, and now she’s living in her SUV.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 07:57:18

“Ater issuing loans they should never have, the Banksters received a bailout courtesy of the taxpayers.”

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-10-02 11:40:05

And the government’s plan is to continue to bail them out as often as necessary.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:20:33

BANKSTA! Not bankster. Sheesh! :roll:

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:21:23

Banker + gangster = bankster
Protesters dressed as a City fat cat and Gordon Brown in bed together
Protesters make their feelings known

A POINT OF VIEW

It seems timely to resurrect this Americanism from the 1930s - one of many evocative words the United States has contributed to the English language, says Harold Evans.

Americans are pretty good at adding words to the English language. We owe them pin-up girls, highbrows, killjoys, stooges, hobos, drop-outs, shills, bobby-soxers, hijackers, do-gooders and hitchhikers who thumb a ride.

The Americanisms are so much more concise and vivid. Instead of saying “sorry we’re late but drivers ahead of us slowed us down when they craned their necks to look at a crash” you can say “we were held up by rubberneckers”.

Words pop in and out of our language as social conditions change. The American gangster, which is still with us, has been around as a noun and a reality since 1896 according to my Shorter Oxford, but it seems to have dropped another Americanism from the 1930s and I think now is the time to revive it.

The word is bankster, derived by a marriage of banker and gangster.

It was coined, as far as I can deduce, by an American immigrant, a fiery Sicilian-born lawyer by the name of Ferdinand Pecora. He was the chief counsel to the US Senate Committee on Banking set up in the early 30s to probe the origins of the Crash of 1929.

He exposed quite a lot of the Wall Street practices that Harvard’s Professor William Z Ripley had condemned in 1928. The believable Ripley called them - get ready for these Americanisms - “prestidigitation, double-shuffling, honey-fugling, hornswoggling and skullduggery“.

The professor had vainly tried to warn President Calvin Coolidge that Wall Street was full of gas and was bound to blow up. To great discomfort all round, Pecora identified Coolidge himself, by then out of office, as one of those who’d been in on the honey-fugling.

The great banking house of JP Morgan had the president on a “preferred list” by which the bank’s influential friends were given a chance to buy stock at half price. Shall we say, they made out like bandits?

Today the term bankster perfectly fits Bernard Madoff, whose crooked Ponzi scheme lost $50 billion of what the trade calls OPM - other people’s money - invested with him.

Stunned crowds gathered on Wall St as news of the 1929 crash spread

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 07:03:18

Ferdinand Pecora is one of the greatest unsung heros to ever grace these shores.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:24:56

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2011 4:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Jailed for covering the Wall Street protests
Getting arrested alongside citizen journalists gave me a taste of the risks these non-professionals take
By John Farley, MetroFocus

MetroFocus Web Editor John Farley, kneeling, was arrested while reporting on the Occupy Wall Street protest. Farley was working on a story about citizen journalism at the time.

On Sept. 24, while working on a story about citizen journalism for my employer, I found myself arrested, along with many other people. My arrest gave me a unique vantage point on the risks and rewards of citizen journalists, those non-professionals who capture stories (usually without pay) using videos and images via portable technology like a cell phone camera. Anyone, even a passerby or a police officer can be a citizen journalist. That’s its power.

Here’s what happened.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 07:29:19

http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm?TB_iframe=true&height=580&width=850

I’m sure the NYPD’s zeal against the demonstrators is wholly unconnected with a recent large gift from JP Morgan.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 07:59:41

“To serve and protect … the super rich”

Comment by scdave
2011-10-02 08:12:01

“To serve and protect … ??

Themselves……

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:55:22

That goes without saying. But to protect themselves they need to serve their true master … and that ain’t the middle class.

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-02 09:14:07

“The police are not here to create disorder, they’re here to PRESERVE disorder. ”

-Mayor Richard J. Daley,
Chicago Police Riots, August, 1968

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:27:54

SEPTEMBER 26, 2011 5:17PM
What the Media Aren’t Telling You About American Protests


MORE THAN A WEEK AGO, a small band of peaceful protesters descended on Zuccotti Park (formerly Liberty Park) in New York City, not far from Wall Street. They dubbed their little movement “Occupy Wall Street.” And, on the first weekend, starting Sept. 17, they had quite a number of people join them in marches and speeches that essentially claimed the 99% of Americans who aren’t the 1% of uber-rich are disenfranchised – and have critical needs related to unemployment, cost of living, and a range of other social issues that are either being ignored outright or largely swept under the rug by our finance-focused government.

These young people, accompanied by like-minded Xers and a few Boomers, didn’t get much coverage to start. (I doubt any authentic movement, at the outset, ever does.) The media that did arrive briefly aired the same complaint: “They are a loosely organized group of disaffected youth who are more like hippies and have no real goal,” they yawned. “Nothing to see here, but we’ve done our job by ‘covering’ it in our blogs,” they seemed to say to New Yorkers and anyone outside the Big Apple paying attention. “This too shall pass.”

The only problem is, it hasn’t. And I suspect after this weekend, it isn’t going to.

Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 05:09:46

Americans generally didn’t stage extended protests because they had to be at work on Monday. Or if they were unemployed, they had to wait at home for the magic phone call. Not now. Too many people have no job to go to, and they can network and check their Linked-In from the iPone as they march. Why not go to Wall Street?

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 06:10:27

They’re not just in Wall Street either. There are groups active in Boston and San Fran too. Anyone hear of any other places? Should be at least 12 groups. I reckon one for each Fed Reserve Bank.

Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, San Francisco

There are a few Fed Presidents that have been fighting for populist common sense .Maybe at those locations crowds should gather to cheer their support and shine the light on the how the Fed is not acting in unison.

Dallas’ Richard Fisher and Kansas City’s Thomas Hoenig come to mind

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-10-02 06:54:21

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/29/nation/la-na-wall-street-protest-20110930/2

‘On its website, Occupy Wall Street describes itself as a “leaderless resistance movement” drawn from people of all backgrounds and political persuasions. “The one thing we all have in common is that we are the 99 percent that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1 percent,” the website says.’

‘I’d prefer to see a list of demands,” one fan wrote on the Occupation Wall Street Facebook page’

I am always encouraged by activism. This morning I am reminded of the movie Network. Where people yell out their window, I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more. But in the film, as soon as that ‘movement’ actually challenged the establishment, it was co-opted by the corporate powers into a TV show looking for ratings (corporate profits) and twisting the message into one supporting the establishment.

IMO, we should be ‘mad as hell’. But demonstrating ‘popular angst’ looks kinda gutless to me. As soon as one actually takes a position, makes a demand, then you find out the meaning of ‘powers that be.’ By not challenging these people and organizations, this looks more like a sign of apathy to me.

Not so much apathy of these protesters themselves, but of the population. If this is all the dissent we can muster up after all the b#ll sh@t the PTB have put upon us these past few years, I doubt they feel very threatened. This system some call the establishment tolerates protests like these because it makes the people feel like they live in a free society, where regular Joe’s and Jane’s have a voice, when in fact, nothing changes.

You know what change looks like? When the government calls out the national guard, when it takes days to sweep up all the glass, when public officials get on TV, and with a shaky voice announce they are stepping down. Those that want real reform could learn a lot from the people in Egypt.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 07:42:31

They’re at the not sure what the “it” is stage. Most people are. Seething anger always finds a trigger.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 08:13:10

Not so much apathy of these protesters themselves, but of the population. If this is all the dissent we can muster up after all the b#ll sh@t the PTB have put upon us these past few years, I doubt they feel very threatened.

Millions of FBs wittingly dissembled to get themselves into mortgages they couldn’t afford. Tens of millions of voters wittingly gave Wall Street a free pass on its fraud and criminality by casting votes for Obama or McCain. This isn’t just apathy on the part of the population; it’s active complicity on the part of a morally and intellectually bankrupt majority in Wall Street’s financial warfare against the productive segment of the economy and unborn taxpayers.

 
Comment by scdave
2011-10-02 08:31:21

You know what change looks like? When the government calls out the national guard ??

+1 +1…Spot on Ben….Remember 1970 May 4th Massacre ?? That is what ended the Vietnam War…We will probably need something along the same lines again I am afraid…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:56:54

IMO, we should be ‘mad as hell’.

Too many J6Ps still believe that things will eventually “bounce back”.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 09:55:54

But in the film, as soon as that ‘movement’ actually challenged the establishment, it was co-opted by the corporate powers into a TV show looking for ratings

That sounds more like the Tea Party than #occupywallstreet.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2011-10-02 10:20:04

’sounds more like the Tea Party than #occupywallstreet’

The political system works very well at absorbing and then smothering the aspirations of populist movements. IMO we should watch and learn, then try again. One thing about the Tea Party; they actually shook up DC by electing people. Then again, the first ‘capitulation’ of Mubarak was to call for new elections. Those in power know that if they can get everyone to go home, they can work elections to their favor. Now Mubarak is seeing trial in a cage. THAT is people power.

I would say trying to shut the govt down via the debt ceiling made a point. But how look at how many turned on the TP for that? I have never heard the mainstream press get so frantic. Maybe that’s a lesson. Real revolutions don’t have a soft cushy comfort zone, where we can throw the bastards out, but still expect to watch Monday Night Football the next day.

‘When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.’

‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.’

‘That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it’

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-10-02 11:48:52

My favorite words of all time Ben.

And TJ continued, “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

It is OUR right. It is OUR duty.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 11:50:35

Real revolutions don’t have a soft cushy comfort zone, where we can throw the bastards out, but still expect to watch Monday Night Football the next day.

Nice.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 13:03:59

Meh… those are historical quotes from an old revolution. Keep that BS sentimentality and legalism alive and your desire for a new revolution dies.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2011-10-02 13:55:56

‘an old revolution’

There are things that do and don’t apply from history. The US was splitting off from a colonial power. People in Egypt didn’t secede, but what started as a peaceful demonstration turned into rebellion.

What I do think is relevant about the Declaration is they took on when enough is enough. Not just to demand a law be changed, or insist on a new governor, but to say we’re done with you. For these people in NY, what do they want? How far are they willing to go? And how do they articulate their concerns to the rest of us such that we join with them?

I ask you this; what is unacceptable to you? Personal or religious freedom. Financial opportunity for you and yours. An end to injustice or oppression. Honest government, the right to vote. If you stand up and demand these things, and the government arrests or shoots at you, are they still legitimate in your mind?

These people in 1776 were very divided about the revolution. Are we not divided today? Is my line in the sand anything like yours? This is important stuff, because if you are in Syria today, and you are shot while protesting, will it be in vain if the revolution fails? The thing about real change, reform or revolutions is, we all have a stake. And you better be sure you have a cause great enough to be worth what you will risk and what you are asking others to risk. I think that’s what Jefferson tried to explain.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 14:43:56

The people in 1776 had their world’s torn apart when they were forced to pick sides. Families, old friendships, marriages. Their worlds were never the same.

I would never extend the idea that anyone in the country is currently there yet. Ok, maybe a few that have lost everything already. But I have a feeling that most of what those people want that are marching in NY, Boston and possibly other locations is a job. And if someone gave them that job they’d be glad to go home and say what the heck to all the rest.

We’ve still got a lot of work to do folks as far as teaching people just exactly how badly they’ve been screwed. A lot of people still don’t really understand what’s being done to them. Even when they do, as long as there is more at risk to shake things up than to sit on the couch, people will sit on the couch.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 14:58:32

worlds

what is this floating apostrophe thingie my brain likes to do?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 16:49:29

‘That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it’

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

– George Orwell

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 16:51:37

“For these people in NY, what do they want? How far are they willing to go? And how do they articulate their concerns to the rest of us such that we join with them?”

It appears to be a movement in search of a cause.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 18:14:56

Ben I believe in revolts and I always champion the cause of the weaker party no matter what. It’s the way I’m wired. My point was that blind adherence to system of rules and laws(Declaration writings in this case) is dangerous. Look no further than the religious fundamentalists of ALL faiths. They point to ancient writings, develop their own interpretation and use it to create the very thing the authors wrote about!!!! The entire early history of the US has been co-opted by the elitist thugs who oppress us. You know it immediately when you hear their code language… “Founding Fathers”, “bringing America back”, “American Values”, “patriotism” and on and on. The writings are radioactive. They’ve been polluted. I have a conscience, and without endorsing a religion, I’m guided by my own Creator. Because of that, I know what truth is. Quoting the Declaration writers is no different than a fundy quoting ancient scriptures.

A real revolution must be grass roots, rejecting ideological and theological pandering of all types. The protesters rejected Charlie Rangel and told him he’s part of the problem. Is that enough proof for you all that the movement is pure enough or will you assign some other purity test *just to be certain* that it meets some $hitty ideological position or passes muster with early American documents? Failure is the end result of these purity tests. This is precisely what the elitist thugs want. It’s why they quote chapter and verse, it’s why they label, it’s why they parse. Their survival depends entirely on keeping us divided.

PS- We were down on the lower east side for some leisure fun yesterday and observed protestors on the Brooklyn Bridge. Its for real.

 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2011-10-02 07:21:30

Check out occupytogether.org

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Ben Jones
2011-10-02 08:06:00

I’m supposed to join a ‘movement’ that doesn’t have any specific goals? Hell, there’s plenty to focus on, pick something!

I’m not knocking what individuals are expressing. But take the Tea Party for example. How many people here call them names, attack them relentlessly? Don’t you see this in the press as well? That’s what happens when something touches a nerve in the establishment. Then this group starts to be co-opted by Republican PACs. IMO, the biggest mistake of the Tea Party was to fold in with one of the two parties.

So it’s my position that we can’t trust the two parties to bring about change. But I’m not gonna knock people for trying. My point is, these occupy WS people probably have more in common with Tea Party ranks than they realize. Divide and conquer is how the PTB keep us under their boot. And if ideas outside the ‘mainstream’ make you uncomfortable, remember that comfortable and change don’t go hand in hand.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 08:15:13

+1. I probably don’t have much in common with most of the protesters, and disagree with the agendas that some of them have, but at least respect them for getting off their a$$es and trying to do something.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 08:54:32

Movements founded on principle (e.g. “end slavery, bust the trusts,
prohibit alcohol consumption, end discrimination, etc”) tend to go a lot farther than those which take the form of a complaint list in search of a scapegoat.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 09:25:13

Thisis why Public financing of elections are manditory. No more $10,000 a plate fundraising dinners, no more lobbists….

and everyone will get a tax credit on their tax form for up to $20

lesss see $20X 100,000,00 taxforms $2 Billion a year that should cover the costs each year

 
Comment by AVOCAD0
2011-10-02 11:10:12

I just want to see an end to pension spiking and double dipping before I am asked to pay higher taxes. That’s all, simple and easy. I dont even care about $16 muffins or Solyndra. (sp)

 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-10-02 15:40:13

But take the Tea Party for example. How many people here call them names, attack them relentlessly? Don’t you see this in the press as well? That’s what happens when something touches a nerve in the establishment.

As I’ve heard it put, “The press is the voice of the establishment.”

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 15:59:09

Thats only HALF of it….we need to Change union rules so it easy to Fire government workers like they do in private business…2 warnings 3rd your OUT……and even that’s a luxury today.

—–
I just want to see an end to pension spiking and double dipping before I am asked to pay higher taxes. That’s all, simple and easy. I dont even care about $16 muffins or Solyndra. (sp)

 
Comment by Robin
2011-10-02 17:30:27

I’m with AVOCADO.

 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2011-10-02 09:34:29

Americans generally didn’t stage extended protests because they had to be at work on Monday.

This is the reason that college students played a large role in the protest movement of the 60s and early 70s. If you read histories of that period, you’ll sometimes hear of housewives getting involved as well, because they had some flexibility in their daily schedules. Of course, once the American people experienced high inflation and a lousy economy from 1973 going forward, women were forced into jobs and students lived in fear of not doing well in college.

It makes me wonder, sometimes, whether the PTB actually planned things that way so that people would focussed on work, work, work and thus be too busy to protest anything.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-10-02 11:51:29

Mike, women entering the workforce in large numbers is what caused the high inflation. Family income went up by 30 to 80 percent almost overnight.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 15:08:35

Did women heading to work cause inflation? Or is it just that people didn’t fight inflation then because they had an option?

The 70s when women really started pushing into the workforce were pretty inflationary.

from Wiki’

The 1970s were America’s only peacetime inflation: the only time when uncertainty about prices made every business decision a speculation on monetary policy. In magnitude, the total increase in the price level as a result of the sustained spurt in peacetime inflation to the five-to-ten percent per year range in the 1970s was as large as the jumps in the price level as a result of the major wars of this century.

At the surface level, the United States had a burst of inflation in the 1970s because no one–until Paul Volcker took office as Chairman of the Federal Reserve–placed a sufficiently high priority on stopping inflation. Other goals took precedence. As a result, policy makers throughout the 1970s were willing to run some risk of non-declining or increasing inflation in order to achieve other goals. After the fact, many believed that they had misjudged the risks: that they would have achieved more of their goals if they had spent more of their political capital and institutional capability trying to control inflation earlier.

At a somewhat deeper level, the United States had a burst of inflation in the 1970s because economic policy makers during the 1960s dealt their successors a very bad hand. Lyndon Johnson, Arthur Okun, and William McChesney Martin left Richard Nixon, Paul McCracken, and Arthur Burns painful dilemmas. And bad luck coupled with bad cards made the lack of success at inflation control in the 1970s worse than anyone had imagined ]ex ante.

At a still deeper level, the United States had a burst of inflation in the 1970s that was not ended until the early 1980s because no one had a mandate to do what was necessary in the 1970s to push inflation below four percent and keep it there. It took the entire decade for the Federal Reserve as an institution to gain the power and freedom of action necessary to control inflation.

http://econ161.berkeley.edu/econ_articles/theinflationofthes.html

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-10-02 18:47:20

Ahem, that article was written by eCONomists.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 20:30:28

I figured the Berkley tag was gonna sink me.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 20:40:02

“…written by eCONomists.”

Well then it is automatically wrong, right?

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-02 23:53:28

Bill, you are full of…false causality.

Women entered the workforce because they HAD to. Inflation was already a factor. (Vietnam war, remember?)

Couples couldn’t make it on one salary back in the late sixties-mid-seventies when the first wave of Boomer females were graduating from university. The space race was winding down after the push to the moon landing, and tech types were being laid off right and left. Vets were returning home expecting to join the work force.

Housing was unaffordable, jobs, especially entry-level jobs, were non-existent, and kids were living in communes so they could afford to eat. Then the gas crisis hit.

Sounds good, but once again, Rush’s fact-checkers are Wrong.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 07:15:03

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/calling_all_rebels_20100308/

Disaffection is crystalizing. More and more people are seeing right through the oligarchy’s attempts to channel popular anger into the fake left vs. right “choice” in the Republicrat duopoly’s stage-managed puppet show.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 07:21:52

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/meltdown/2011/09/2011914105518615434.html

How ironic, and telling, that one has to turn to foreign media outlets like al-Jazerra, rather than our own corporate-owned MSM, for factual reporting on events of national and global significance like the 2008 financial meltdown.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 07:39:30

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/25/occupy-wall-street-protest?fb=optOut

For those who aren’t particularly interested in the vapid drek being spewed by our MSM, the foreign media, especially some of the venerable UK media where penetrating insights and analysis are not quite out of fashion, offers a useful alternative. This is one of the better articles I’ve seen on the growing anti-Establishment mood among young people who got sold down the river by hope ‘n change.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 17:08:52

“sold down the river by hope ‘n change”

I don’t think so. We were sold out before that pretty much. The hope and change thing was brilliant marketing. It means what you want it to mean. So now we know it didn’t really mean anything exactly.

It really is Mr. Obama who should be most dissappointed of all in this. What he was offered was a rip-off.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by ecofeco
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 18:40:04

Hard to tell about these things. I do not know the detaails and I am sure you don’t either. I do think it is foolish to take a media headline at face value. Sorry.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:35:03

Dubai Chronicle

October 2, 2011
Economy Faces New Recession

The U.S. economy is headed for another recession that government intervention cannot prevent, according to the Economic Cycle Research Institute.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:32:00

That “New Recession” meme always cracks me up.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:38:01

SEPTEMBER 30, 2011, 7:04 P.M. ET

US incomes fall for first time in nearly 2 years
Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Americans earned less in August than in July, the first decline in nearly two years. With less income, consumers could cut back on spending and weaken an already-fragile economy.

Their lower pay explains why consumers increased spending at a slower pace in August. And most of the increase went to pay higher prices for food and gas. When adjusted for inflation, spending was flat.

Many people tapped their savings to cover the steeper costs. The savings rate fell to its lowest level since December 2009.

The decline in income offered “more evidence that households are in quite a bind,” said Paul Dales, senior U.S. economist at Capital Economics.

Comment by mikeinbend
2011-10-02 09:20:13

Local radio station claims that Oregonions are only taking home $500/year more than they were in 1993. 30 bucks/year in additional income would not sound so bad if we still had $1.59 gas; or if groceries were not so much higher; or if college tuition wasn’t well over twice as expensive. $40/credit at the city college?; I remember that being $12, and for many the final nail in their financial coffin is health care with its exponential price increases.

$30/year is not cutting it; and possibly these gains are negated completely with higher unemployment?
Even with our new SNAP(45 million folks who don’t have to wait in soup lines sure keeps the poverty well hidden) and the yearly EIC tax payout; the $$ coming in is nowhere near what the $$ going out equals.

And we have 3 paid off vehicles; one paid off home; and not too much personal debt. Our friends, who are hard working, but young, confided that they are “upside down” on their 38′ motorhome; purchased with a 15 year mortgage. We have a travel trailer that we paid $3,000 for; and I lived in it for three winters when I could not get local teaching work! Well we are no longer envious of their Bounder that is taking them on a ride! My dad’s midwestern “cash on the barrelhead” has served us well (better than any “how much a month purchase” has ever done us; most notably my wife’s condo)in that we cant go underwater on our vehicles or house.

Tell someone you bought a new car and invariably, IME, the question that follows is “How much is the payment?”

There is that condo that my wife is gonna lose, though. We thought it prudent to put 20% down and have lots of skin in the game even though the underwriting standards had changed such that “skin in the gamers” lost the most $$ in the bubble popping. We lost real $$ on our real estate mistake.(financing with a large down) Somehow it was not too risky for the bank to hand my wife $300k; helping us along in our stupid buying on credit idea at 60x income.

Not their fault, as my wife signed the dotted line; but her inability to pay the mortgage is not because of losing her job; its because we ran out of our money stockpile that was dependant on making $$ in appreciation. At least we wised up a bit and decided to save one house and our vehicles; that we would rather not liquidate to pay the mortgage for a couple more years.

Right now this decision to let the house go now rather than liquidating all our savings to tread water for a short time longer is saving our bacon. Because the bank is letting us occupy ” our home” without paying, going on 2 years now. But finally BofA will be losing our checking business, because they would rather nickle and dime us, than take away my wife’s house, what with their new debit card fees on top of their monthly fees on what WAS a free checking account.

How many swipe fees would they make up by taking back the house and selling it?

We will be too busy working our low income jobs to march on WS, trying to keep those pesky wolves from the door! And working on not being so underemployed.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 16:04:33

And Mike this gets me so riled up you get rejected for a job because you are “overqualified”

Like maybe the economy might get better and I can take on more responsibilty…nope they hire a kid who quits when things get better, or gets his GF preggo.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:40:52

The world economy
Be afraid
Unless politicians act more boldly, the world economy will keep heading towards a black hole
Oct 1st 2011 | from the print edition

IN DARK days, people naturally seek glimmers of hope. So it was that financial markets, long battered by the ever-worsening euro crisis, rallied early this week amid speculation that Europe’s leaders had been bullied by the rest of the world into at last putting together a “big plan” to save the single currency. Investors ventured out from safe-haven bonds into riskier assets. Stock prices jumped: those of embattled French banks soared by almost 20% in just two days.

But those hopes are likely to fade, for three reasons. First, for all the breathless headlines from the IMF/World Bank meetings in Washington, DC, Europe’s leaders are a long way from a deal on how to save the euro. The best that can be said is that they now have a plan to have a plan, probably by early November. Second, even if a catastrophe in Europe is avoided, the prospects for the world economy are darkening, as the rich world’s fiscal austerity intensifies and slowing emerging economies provide less of a cushion for global growth. Third, America’s politicians are, once again, threatening to wreck the recovery with irresponsible fiscal brinkmanship. Together, these developments point to a perilous period ahead.

Comment by butters
2011-10-02 07:35:44

act more boldly = more bailouts, more handouts and more money printing….

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:47:17

It’s always good to keep in mind that The Economist magazine’s board is heavily weighted towards banking interests.

 
Comment by AVOCAD0
2011-10-02 11:28:39

Hoover made the mistake of not printing more money, so this time we print, print, print….

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:47:28

Black hole sun
Won’t you come
And wash away the rain
Black hole sun
Won’t you come

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:52:02

Standing in the way of disaster funding is sure to win Republican Congressmen plenty of love from their constituents.

Threatening shutdown
The shape of things to come
Rows and more rows

Oct 1st 2011 | WASHINGTON, DC | from the print edition

Call FEMA

THESE days the fact that Congress has staved off disaster for a few weeks passes as good news. As The Economist went to press, the House of Representatives appeared poised to avert a suspension of all but the most vital government services by approving a stopgap budget. But the bill, already passed by the Senate, will only keep the government up and running until mid-November.

Supposedly, the Republican leadership of the House, the Democrats who control the Senate and Barack Obama have already settled their differences over the budget. In a previous melodrama in July, they agreed on an overall spending figure for the coming fiscal year, as part of a deal to raise the limit Congress places on the government’s debts. A few months before that, they resolved yet another spat that would have brought the government to a standstill when they thrashed out a budget for the final part of the fiscal year that ends this week. But many congressmen, both Democratic and Republican, were unhappy with those arrangements, setting the stage for this week’s histrionics.

The act that reopened hostilities was the Senate’s insistence on boosting the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s depleted disaster-relief fund by $6.9 billion. There have been lots of natural calamities in America this year, from wildfires in Texas to flooding in Vermont, and FEMA had said it might run out of money to help the victims before the end of the month. That was too much for the Republicans in the House, many of whom think the spending levels agreed in August are too high as it is. They wanted to give FEMA just $3.7 billion, and to pay for even that with cuts to other programmes.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 02:57:16

The euro crisis
Is anyone in charge?
A look behind the drifting and squabbling to see who is really to blame, and what they’re thinking

Oct 1st 2011 | BRUSSELS, LONDON, PARIS AND WASHINGTON, DC | from the print edition

IN THE Centennial Hall in Wroclaw, Poland, in early September, Jean-Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank, warned Europe’s finance ministers how grave the global financial crisis was. The euro area, he said, was currently its epicentre, and the consequences could be much worse than anything seen so far.

But since most citizens are not yet feeling the pain, politicians are struggling to act decisively. A lightning visit to Wroclaw by Tim Geithner, America’s treasury secretary, to express his alarm over the “catastrophic risk” of cascading sovereign defaults seemed to have little impact. The Europeans offered either excuses (decisions in a European Union of 27 countries are hard to reach) or hostility (America should sort out its own debt). After two days of talks, the euro-zone ministers came no closer to a solution.

One week later, at the annual meetings of the IMF and World Bank in Washington, the Americans and others, including China, berated the Europeans for threatening the world economy. In fact, there was some progress: the Europeans agreed that there must be a plan to ring-fence solvent but illiquid economies, beef up the main bail-out fund, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), recapitalise Europe’s banks and, not least, deal with Greece, which may yet default chaotically. But there was no agreement on any of the details of such a plan.

Comment by palmetto
2011-10-02 04:38:27

“A look behind the drifting and squabbling to see who is really to blame, and what they’re thinking”

At this point in history, drifting and squabbling is exactly what you want, if you’re not lucky enough to be in the 1% of the “global elitists”. As bad as it is right now, unified global governance is to be avoided at all costs.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 07:50:30

The unified global governance is what benefits monied elites and taxes the general pouplation to guarantee their income streams. A breakdown in “cooperation” prevents further enslavement of whole populations in more debt and taxation.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:00:39

Lexington
Open goal, useless strikers
After Rick Perry stumbles, the Republican cry goes out for a substitute
Oct 1st 2011 | from the print edition

HERE is your match report so far, translated into soccer to spare American readers the pain of having their sporting metaphors mangled by foreigners.

It is the penalty shoot-out. Barack Obama stands in a corner of the goal mouth, his leg shackled to a heavy anvil labelled “the economy”. One by one, the Republican presidential candidates line up to shoot at goal. One by one, they trip up and collapse in a heap even before they have had a chance to connect with the ball. The latest figure spread-eagled haplessly on the field is that of Rick Perry, the governor of Texas, who has managed to go from hero to zero after less than two months in the race.

Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 05:36:14

I told a friend that the recent buzz about Chris Christie was a media fabrication; they’re looking for a candidate who could garner better ratings.

And really folks, American football isn’t that difficult. Just look at the mental calibre of the fans. :roll: (then again, I stay far far away from Aussie rules.)

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 07:55:12

“And really folks, American football isn’t that difficult. Just look at the mental calibre of the fans.”

Does it make you feel smarter or better about yourself to a group of people stupid? Just wondering because when I vent about people who are not paying their mortgages and crying victim or collecting rent while not paying their mortgage and watching one govt. program after another come down the pike to help them and the banks while I bust my @ss to stay in business, take care of my family, pay my guys and my bills it does on some level make me feel better. However it does not make me feel any smarter.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 09:37:09

Yeah but they have season tickets to the packers or cowboys, and wont file BK until they see the sheriffff a comin round the bend.

-
Does it make you feel smarter or better about yourself to a group of people stupid? Just wondering because when I vent about people who are not paying their mortgages and crying victim or collecting rent

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:10:38

Actually American football rules are not only very complex, but are constantly changing as well.

And here’s a doozy regarding high school soccer in the USA. It is played by its own set of non standard rules. Youth (club) soccer is played by FIFA rules, but not high school soccer. THe refs even use a set of non standaed hand gestures that are clearly borrowed from American Football. There are “soft” vs. “hard” red cards (a soft red carded player can be replaced on the field), etc.

Comment by combotechie
2011-10-02 11:06:51

Football is sort of like chess in that the rules are fairly easy to learn but the game is difficult to master.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 08:04:11

I don’t know anyone who liked Perry to begin with. I know lots of people who like what Christie has been doing in NJ. He’s a house cleaner, a turn around manager. Congress would hate him.

The Republicans are running against an empty net.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 09:07:57

The penalty kick shootout metaphor used by the Economist is very apt. A properly placed PK is unstoppable, there is no excuse for an experienced striker to not score. That the GOP contenders keep failing to score against what is basically an open net says worlds about their caliber, or lack of.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 09:39:12

So i guess Sarah will be “the one” to fight “THE ONE”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2011-10-02 10:02:08

I thought that this article by Thomas Sowell about Perry made sense. He disagress with the two of Perry’s positions that have gotten Perry introuble with the Tea Party GOP base - immigration policy and that vaccine issue. However, he thinks that the Tea Party people will never be satisfied if they are looking for someone who is perfect.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2783967/posts

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 19:23:05

The vaccine thing is stunningly stupid. On principal, we have a person who wanted to prevent cancer cases among millions. I’m no fan of Perry(obviously), but when you take an freakishly opposing position on this, he deserves to be defended on this issue.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 12:01:42

I don’t know anyone who liked Perry to begin with.

Lots of religious people who would otherwise quickly settle for Romney are horrified at the thought of voting for someone of his faith. They are desperately trying to get behind “anybody but Romney” and make it stick. Due to the R tradition of backing the guy whose “turn” it is based on the previous election I don’t think they will succeed. IMO the only real question at this point is whether they will hold their nose and vote for Romney in the end. So far I don’t see anybody else out there that could overcome his inertia for the nomination. One possible exception could have been Palin, but I think that window is closing.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2011-10-02 11:56:07

Waiting in the wings somewhere is an atheist non-interventionist Austrian economics guy - someone with the economics and foreign policy of Ron Paul, the civil liberties of Barry Goldwater, the evolutionism of Jon Huntsman…

Maybe in 2016?

Comment by MightyMike
2011-10-02 13:41:55

The Republicans will not nominate an avowed atheist in 2016. You may have to wait until 2116 for that.

Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2011-10-02 15:25:09

I think 2032 at the latest, by how the amount of non-religious people are growing in the USA. Note “non-religious” as opposed to “atheist.” When more than 40% of Americans consider themselves “non-religious,” “atheist” will not be a dirty word. Currently we atheists are regarded worse than Muslim terrorists. I read that in polls. Does not make sense to me but that’s what the polls show.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:51:25

Perry is the male version of Palin.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 18:15:08

But his followers are just as lobotomized.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:03:38

Buttonwood
Mood swings
Financial markets are displaying a split personality
Oct 1st 2011 | from the print edition

WHEN actors want to increase their chances of winning an Oscar or an Emmy, they will often take a role as a character with a multiple-personality disorder, allowing them to chew the scenery with abandon. Financial markets have recently been as emotional as Kate Winslet at an awards ceremony, alternating between “risk on” (when markets are in buoyant mood) and “risk off” (when they are anxious) with bewildering rapidity.

In the third week of September, for example, equity markets plunged because of worries about the global economy. Then in the fourth week, they initially rebounded on hopes that Europe’s political leaders were at last coming up with a plan for the debt crisis.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:08:42

Published: Sept. 29, 2011 Updated: 10:09 p.m.
Foreclosure bubble could last 5 more years
By JEFF COLLINS / THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

It will take three to five years for the California housing market to clear its backlog of defaulting homes that continue to be a drag on housing prices, the chief economist of the California Association of Realtors has said during a recent conference call.

“It depends on the area, but I would say three to five years,” CAR economist Leslie Appleton-Young said.

“Three (years) in areas where (foreclosures) haven’t been the majority of the market. Closer to five in the inland areas, where I don’t think we’ve seen a lot of the supply that’s going to come through (has yet) come through,” she said. “You’ve got shadow inventory/negative equity homeowners that are still kind of in a holding pattern (in those areas).”

Comment by rms
2011-10-02 07:23:11

They don’t have five years because the government is running out of housing support money. The middle east and the Euro crisis will command the attention going forward.

 
Comment by AVOCAD0
2011-10-02 11:34:30

The CAR is always right!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 17:56:55

It took close to 6 years for the Savings & Loan disaster to hit bottom. So we have at least one more year to go.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:10:29

Housing recovery could take a decade, economists warn
Recovery could take longer for areas such as Las Vegas, economists say, because of speculative purchases. (Jacob Kepler/bloomberg News)
By Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 27, 2010

Even as the housing market shows signs of improvement, including in new data released Tuesday, economists warn that it could take up to a decade for many homeowners to regain equity in their homes, while some people in the hardest-hit regions of the country may not see a recovery during their lifetime.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:00:32

See my comment above.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:12:16

SEPTEMBER 30, 2011, 2:46 P.M. ET

Survey: More Bankers Expect Consumer Delinquencies To Rise
By Matthias Rieker
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)–U.S. banks have seen delinquency rates declining for credit card borrowers in recent months, but a growing number of bankers believe that trend is going to change.

The third-quarter survey of 188 risk management professionals at banks conducted for FICO, the consumer credit rating firm, by the Professional Risk Managers’ International Association found that almost 40% of respondents predict delinquencies among credit card borrowers will increase, compared with about 30% in the second quarter.

Comment by rms
2011-10-02 07:34:27

“The recent economic news and the failure of our politicians to make important decisions has certainly sucked all the wind out of the optimism we saw in the prior survey. I would not expect to see the sentiment change until we see real growth in jobs and that looks a ways off,” said Andrew Jennings, chief analytics officer for FICO.”

Oh yeah…we sent those jobs to Asia. Oops!

***

Speaking of jobs, my employer has requested my presence today, so I’m outta here, but I’ll be lurking when possible.

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-10-02 09:03:28

An article from 2008: “Confessions of a Debt Collector”.

http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2008/11/confessions-of-a-debt-collector.html

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-10-02 09:27:48

For some interesting/informative reads google-up “confessions of debt collectors”.

Here’s one I just did - from 2010: Ten people tell of their experiences as debt collectors:

http//money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/news/1007/gallery.debt_collectors/index.html

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 09:41:14

well ok..tens of millions of CC are now variable rate..so no surprise here.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:14:00

Chart of the Day: Home Prices Won’t Recover Until 2020
By Daniel Indiviglio
Sep 30 2011, 5:03 PM ET

When average Americans say that they have bad expectations for the U.S. economy, it’s easy to take that with a grain of salt. Anyone who sees the unemployment rate stuck above 9% and incomes stagnating has plenty of reason for pessimism. But when financial industry professionals exhibit even greater pessimism, it’s harder to shrug off. A recent poll (.pdf) by credit scoring company FICO produced pretty grim results.

The company polls credit risk management professionals quarterly about the state of the economy and credit industry. The report for the third quarter was released today, and it isn’t good. Here are some of the results:

Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 05:39:35

How can they call the next top without first calling the bottom? IOW, when will housing start to recover, not finish recovering?

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 06:26:12

The most ironic thing of all this is that if they’d just allow home prices to bottom those of us sitting on the side would be in a home and have money to spend.

Sky high taxes wouldn’t be so hard to take if a huge cross section of America wasn’t already spending more than 30% of their monthly income on housing.

For that matter you could also say the same if they weren’t already weighed down by a huge education debt, or if the costs of medical care via insurance and/or actual incurred costs weren’t sucking them dry.

I wonder when Americans are going to figure out if the government would just stop protecting certain industries a lot of our troubles would dicipate.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:15:03

Sky high taxes wouldn’t be so hard to take if a huge cross section of America wasn’t already spending more than 30% of their monthly income on housing.

In some parts of the country people are expected to spend 50% of their income on servicing the mortgage.

Of course as we all know unaffordable housing is a form of taxation, one that is paid to the banking clan.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 10:08:39

And those who aren’t spending 50% servicing their mortgage are spending 50% servicing their rent.

The next-door neighbors moved out last month. They did a rushed repair and cleaning, and a new tenant moved in within three weeks. Two roomate women.

That’s they only way to pay the rent, is to take in a roomy.

 
Comment by Watching and Waiting
2011-10-02 18:07:59

Oxide, check out MC7617056 on zip realty. The listing includes a handy chart showing ‘annual income to qualify’ for a $417k loan to buy the property is only $78k. It’s like a time warp or something.

 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-02 08:15:29

It is pretty funny, when housing still hasn’t gotten down to a rational level of affordable nationwide, is still going down and the winds of economic decline an credit collapse are blowing up our butts.

 
 
Comment by Pete
2011-10-02 19:38:03

“Chart of the Day: Home Prices Won’t Recover Until 2020″

Just read the article. When they say “recover”, they are referring to “2007 prices”. My question is: since everyone, not just HBB posters, agrees that the housing price bubble was one of epic proportions, what in the world leads the FICO “industry professionals” to conclude that in nine years, we’ll be back to those prices? The nominal trend, not adjusted for inflation, would put the average USA home price come 2020 between 200,000 and 225,000. The ‘07 peak was well over 250,000. http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/
So the message seems to be that we won’t have another housing bubble until 2020.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:19:20

Posted September 29, 2011
Student Loan Default: Avoid at All Costs
By Jeff Brown

NEW YORK (MainStreet) — This spring’s college graduates have had their summer goof-off time and are now buckling down to their first real jobs. Well, maybe not.

Jobs are scarce, and especially the good, career-track jobs. It may take many months, possibly years, for a recent grad to get a good financial start. So what happens with that government-backed student loan?

Unfortunately, there’s not much wiggle room. You either keep up with your payments or face severe, long-lasting consequences.

Government figures lag considerably, with the latest showing an 8.8% default rate for borrowers who were to start repayments in the 2009 fiscal year. That was up from 7% the previous year. With the job market so weak, it’s not likely things have improved. Typically, four of five defaults come after the first two years following graduation.

Borrowers who got used to easy or no-payment terms during their student years can be shocked by what awaits them in the real world – an unforgiving approach to missed payments. In fact, defaulting on a student loan can be worse than defaulting on a mortgage.

The IRS, for example, can intercept your tax refund, diverting it to repay your loan. This is very common, amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

The government also can take, or “garnish” a chunk of your pay, getting it directly from your employer. It can grab lottery winnings, and even take Social Security benefits. Of course, you could be sued as well.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 06:39:28

And parents can’t take a 2nd out on the house for those education costs so easily either.

I’m wondering how employers will respond over the coming years. IE, that desk clerk job that once didn’t require a degree but now does require one, will that go back to not requiring one because they’re only paying minimim wage?

Comment by combotechie
2011-10-02 07:50:05

“I’m wondering how employers will respond in coming years.”

As in: “How can I trust you when you owe so much money?”

I wonder how this would affect getting a security clearance.

Comment by AVOCAD0
2011-10-02 11:38:09

It effects my dating choices. I went out with one girl with 3 rentals all bought in 2004-07, borrowed money from grandma.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 16:10:04

AVO:

Date but never marry…..

 
 
Comment by malfunction junction
2011-10-03 08:45:19

A bankruptcy at any time in your life prevents you from getting a clearance. Marrying someone who has been in bankruptcy will also bust your clearance. I once had a company tell me I was the fourth person they tried to hire for a job. The previous three applicants had all defaulted on their home loans lost their employment as a result. An exerienced defence contractor will always keep a large cash lump sum around to prevent any unforeseen costs from affecting their ability to work.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 12:06:53

even take Social Security benefits

Ruh roh. So under the current system millions could someday be told at 65 “you received your SS at college”?

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-02 16:43:53

ill never understand why hundreds of thousands of people just didn’t pay off their student loans with a heloc..But yet they refied their credit cards

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 19:22:33

Because they didn’t think it was ever going to end. If houses always go up, why prepare for bankruptcy?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:21:13

Posted September 22, 2011
Young People Shut Out of Home Ownership
By Brian O’Connell

NEW YORK (MainStreet) — There is some good news on the home-buying front, but there’s one key consumer demographic that seems to be missing in action: young people.

According to Realtor.org, home sales are on the mend, up 7.7% from July to August. Better yet, new home sales were up 18% on a year-to-year basis, the organization reports.

But not everyone is able to get in on the fun. A new University of Iowa study shows that younger Americans are increasingly walled off from homeownership.

The study says that 20- and even 30- and 40-somethings have suffered disproportionately in the economic downturn, and can’t get the financing or are too worried about money to gather up the financial resources needed to buy a new home.

The data was compiled by University of Iowa economics professor Martin Gervais at the Tippie College of Business. He says that homeownership among the nation’s younger consumers was already in decline since 1980 (Gervais defines “younger” consumers as the 25-44 age group).

Only 57% of that demographic owned their own home in 2007, and that’s down from 61% in 1980. Gervais estimates that number is “even lower today”.

Comment by Muggy
2011-10-02 05:27:00

“too worried about money to gather up the financial resources needed to buy a new home.”

Ding ding! I’d rather spend the money on my family’s health and education. But… if you want to talk price, call me back.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:51:33

We’ve come a long way since the early days of the HBB (circa 2005), when the financially brilliant under-30-somethings understood something about the virtues of home ownership that those over 30 just couldn’t grasp.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:23:07

FHFA Head Says Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Cannot Be Fixed
Posted on September 30, 2011

In a speech before the American Mortgage Conference, Acting Director Edward DeMarco of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), said that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have little chance of emerging from conservatorship.

Both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage financing giants of the housing industry, faced collapse in late 2008 as mortgage defaults skyrocketed and property values collapsed. On September 7, 2008, the FHFA placed both of the government sponsored entities (GSE) into conservatorship to ensure their solvency and prevent a complete collapse of the mortgage markets.

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 09:09:45

“FHFA Head Says Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Cannot Be Fixed”

Sure they can, just like the vet fixed Dozzer.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 03:25:18

Changes in loan limits could give homebuyers 2nd thoughts
20% down set for jumbo mortgages
By Marjorie Hernandez
Posted September 30, 2011 at 10:52 p.m.

Potential homebuyers looking to move into bigger homes could face higher mortgage rates and stricter loan qualification requirements as conforming loan limits are reduced starting today.

Those wanting to finance a mortgage greater than $500,000 will have to make a higher down payment. The maximum Federal Housing Authority, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac conforming loan limit in Ventura County drops from $729,550 to $598,000.

Conforming loan limits determine the maximum amount that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHA can buy or guarantee on a property. Nonconforming, or jumbo loans, require a larger down payment and higher monthly payments.

The change varies depending on the region, but the lower FHA limit means about 12.7 percent of single-family home sales projected in Ventura County in 2012 would be ineligible for conforming loans, according to data released by the California Association of Realtors.

Comment by combotechie
2011-10-02 08:09:57

“… conforming loan limits in Ventura County drops from $729,550 to $598,000.”

The trend is your friend in that it is going down.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-02 08:58:37

Cantankerous- Thank you for the link.
Ventura County is my hood. When we bought our oversized McMansion we had to have at least 20% down, and an emergency reserve in the bank. (1998) Getting approved was black and white. I’m glad to see it again. If you can’t afford to move up, then be grateful you have a home at least. In retrospect, we didn’t really need all that “flashy” space.

This area is flooded with oversized McMansions in “Foreclosure Islands”. (figure of speech)

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2011-10-02 04:18:53

Wow! This works really well! Sing along and replace “needle” with “realtor.”

Queensryche Liensryche
“The Needle Lies” “The Realtor Lies”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEIi_nNg6pQ

I looked back once
And all I saw was his face
Smiling, the buyer crying
Walking out of his room
With mirrors, afraid I heard him scream
You’ll never get away

Cold and shaking
I crawled down alleys to try
And scrape away the loans that marked me
Slammed my face into walls of concrete
I stared, amazed at the words written on the wall

Don’t ever trust
Don’t ever trust the Realtor, it lies
Don’t ever trust
Don’t ever trust the Realtor when it cries…
Cries your name

Wet and raving
The Realtor keeps calling me back
To bloody my hands forever
Carved my cure with the blade
That left me in scars
Now every time I’m weak
Words scream from my arm

Don’t ever trust
Don’t ever trust the Realtor, it lies
Don’t ever trust
Don’t ever trust the Realtor when it cries…
Cries your name

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 05:10:17

Chickens Are Fryers

Comment by liz pendens
2011-10-02 05:50:52

Real Cords Are Wires

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 06:43:37

Real Priests Are Fryars

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 08:19:01

Actually, you don’t have to be a priest to be a friar. Those who are not ordained are addressed as “brother”, the ordained are addressed as “father”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 10:33:01

“Actually, you don’t have to be a priest to be a friar.”

But you do have to be a chicken to be a Fryer.

Also you don`t have to be a Realtor to be a liar. But it helps.

 
 
Comment by AVOCAD0
2011-10-02 11:50:12
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 12:00:09

$58M and no cheesecake?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by liz pendens
2011-10-02 05:38:36

Craigslist failure:

Free cheesecake with purchase.

http://daytona.craigslist.org/reo/2628240207.html

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 06:30:49

$244900 Free cheesecake with purchase (Ormond)

OK, I`ll give you $21k but I want 2 cheesecakes and an apple pie.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 05:47:31

The Deadbeat Poets Society

Soke em joke em live for free
I`m a victim can`t you see
Big Bad Banker did me wrong
That`s why I`ve been here so long
I spend my money where I choose
Heads I win and tails you lose

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 06:32:29

Soke em joke em

Smoke em joke em

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:54:12

Slight edit suggested:

That`s why I`ve been here oh so long

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 10:38:52

This rewrite is credited to
Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©

The Deadbeat Poets Society

Smoke em joke em live for free
I`m a victim can`t you see
Big Bad Banker did me wrong
That`s why I`ve been here oh so long
I spend my money where I choose
Heads I win and tails you lose

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 06:09:11

The Deadbeat Poets Society

Listen, my children, and don`t be schocked
About the Deadbeats on your block,
That big old house they say they own;
They bought it with a Liar Loan
They take vacations new cars too
But your parents say it`s not for you?
We pay our bills and we pay your taxes
Our credit cards aren`t at the maxes
For it`s one, if by land, and two, if by sea;
Only the Deadbeats live for free

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-10-02 09:19:25

Love it!

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:55:27

Awesome poetry! I hope to see it end up some day in the Library of Congress…

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 06:44:43

A stanza of lyrics from “Destroya”

My Chemical Romance

Sit down from the boast of the other side
Red-mob, we insects hide
King rat on the streets in another life
They laugh, we don’t think it’s funny
If what you are
Is just what you own
What have you become
When they take from you
Almost everything

More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/m/my_chemical_romance/#share

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 07:21:20

I clicked on your link. Now I don`t know who or what Dr Death is but I like it.

“Goodnite, Dr Death”
Goodnite, Dr Death lyrics (with some liberties)

Alright, Children
The lights are out and the party’s over
It’s time for me: Doctor Deadbeat
To start running and say goodbye for a little while
And I know you’re gonna miss me
So I’ll leave you with this
You know that big ball of debt we call our mortgage?
Well it’ll burst you into flames
If you stay in one place too long
They might actually make you pay to live there
So remember even if you’re dusted
You may be gone
But out here in the desert
Your shadow lives on without you
This is Dr. Deadbeat
Signing off

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 14:57:03

This is from a Post Apocolyptic themed album where MCR act out a comic book style storyline and they’re known as The Fabulous Killjoys. Dr. D, the deejay, communicates over the radio what the rebels out in the desert need to know while they’re protecting and saving. Here’s the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egG7fiE89IU&noredirect=1

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 06:53:27

Merriam-Webster 2005 edition

Definition of HOUSE
1: a building that serves as an ATM machine for one or a few families : home
2a (1) : a shelter or refuge (as a nest or den) to be flipped for a quick profit (2) : a natural covering (as a test or shell) that enriches and protects an animal or a colony of Realestate investors b : a building in which something is refinanced for personal gain

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 08:42:25

In the “glass is half full” department, nearly half of all owners with mortgages have at least 25% equity stakes in their properties. In the “glass is more than half empty” department, $7 trillion in U.S. home equity - 53 percent - has gone up in a cloud of subprime smoke since 2005. Estimating the 2005 number of U.S. households as 114m with 69 percent of them home owners, I come up with an average home equity loss of $7t/(69%*114m) = $89K per U.S. homeowner household since 2005.

Clearly there has never been a better time to rent!

Most homeowners still faring well, with positive equity

Nearly half of all owners with mortgages have at least 25% equity stakes in their properties, and about a quarter of owners with mortgages have more than 50% equity, a new study shows.

By Kenneth R. Harney
October 2, 2011
Reporting from Washington—

Negative equity and underwater homeowners are frequently in the headlines, but what about positive equity in Americans’ homes?

Is there much of it left after the wealth-killing recession and real estate bust? Where is it? Who’s got equity? You might be surprised.

First some basics on equity. The Federal Reserve estimates that at the end of June, Americans held $6.2 trillion in equity in their homes. This was down sharply from $13.2 trillion in 2005. Roughly 1 of every 3 homes is mortgage-free, according to federal and industry estimates.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-02 08:45:29

Coincidence or not, BofA online banking has been in the toilet since Friday evening. Did they create a denial of service attack by their own customers checking their accounts to see if they would be shafted by the new 5$/month debit card fee in January? Or has BofA “conveniently” made it more difficult for customers to check on the terms of their accounts?

Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-02 11:03:41

A couple of links:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/bank-of-america-site-temporarily-down/

http://sitedown.co/bank-of-america

“Bank of America, based in Charlotte, N.C., will waive debit card charges on premium accounts and for Wealth Management/Merrill Lynch and US Trust clients. Customers will still be able to get cash through ATMs, use online bill pay and mobile phones for free.”

Well maybe not the “online” bill pay.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:38:13

The latter without a doubt. I’ve seen banks play this game before.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:03:51

Here is an article which appears to represent the state of U.S. renter demographics, circa 2004. Given millions of foreclosures since then, I am guessing the number of down-and-out renter households has only increased in subsequent years.

Whenever you hear a Democratic politician proposing this, that or the other policy to give homeowners a leg up, bear in mind that they are implicitly discriminating against “a disproportionate share of the nation’s most disadvantaged households.”

RENTER DEMOGRAPHICS

About one-third of US households live in rental
housing. Indeed, nearly all Americans—including
former homeowners—rent their homes at one time
or another. Stereotypes to the contrary, renters
are of every age, race/ethnicity, income, and family
type, living in every setting from center city
to rural countryside. But despite a sizable
high-end market, rental housing remains home
to a disproportionate share of the nation’s most
disadvantaged households
.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-10-02 12:07:18

Captain Obvious, call your office.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:26:18

“Call your office.”

Hurler of explosive devices

 
 
Comment by rms
2011-10-02 16:47:06

“…disadvantaged households.”

The disadvantaged usually are not bright enough for the responsibility of servicing a mortgage and/or the property upkeep involved within neighborhoods where other families have a sizable financial stake.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:12:55

Here is an ocean view home available at a fire sale price to some rich foreigner with an all-cash offer in hand. I wonder which lucky international suitor will win the bid?

Auction of ‘The Razor’ home in La Jolla delayed
Property has several international suitors, the listing agent says

The “Razor,” 9826 La Jolla Farms Way in La Jolla, will be auctioned noon Tuesday. Photo by Doyle Terry.

Tuesday’s auction of a La Jolla home that once served as the backdrop for TV ads for Calvin Klein and Visa has been postponed as the listing agency fields offers from overseas buyers.

Listing agent Bob Hurwitz, of Beverly Hills-based Hurwitz James Company, said the oceanfront property — which cost $34 million to build — has received “a number of inquiries” from interested parties in Russia, China, Canada and several countries in Europe. Hurwitz said those prospective clients were unable to view the property, which had an original asking price of $45 million, before Tuesday’s scheduled auction.

One cash offer in particular “is presently under consideration” and “is without question the most likely” to take root, Hurwitz added.

The company will set another auction date within a week to 10 days if the 11,000-square-foot estate, 9826 La Jolla Farms Way, is not yet sold.

Nicknamed “The Razor,” the oceanfront foreclosure’s starting bid had been $16 million, with overbids of $100,000 increments.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 10:08:30

$34 million dollars in upgrades for an $18,188,000 ($19,388,000 - $1,200,000) increase in value, at best…so much for the failed theory that home improvements pencil out as investments.

Property History for 9826 La Jolla Farms Way
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Sep 06, 2011 Relisted (Active) – – SANDICOR #110032833
Sep 03, 2011 Delisted (Expired) – – SANDICOR #110032833
Jun 06, 2011 Listed (Active) $19,388,000 – SANDICOR #110032833
Apr 22, 2011 Price Changed $19,388,000 – TheMLS #08-277145
Mar 11, 2011 - Delisted (Expired) – – Inactive SANDICOR #3
Feb 16, 2010 - Price Changed * – Inactive SANDICOR #3
Feb 12, 2010 Price Changed $25,000,000 – TheMLS #08-277145
Jul 13, 2009 - Listed (Active) * – Inactive SANDICOR #3
Jun 23, 2009 Price Changed $28,500,000 – TheMLS #08-277145
May 03, 2009 - Delisted – – Inactive SoCalMLS #2
May 02, 2009 - Delisted – – Inactive SANDICOR #1
Sep 10, 2008 - Price Changed * – Inactive SoCalMLS #2
Sep 10, 2008 - Price Changed * – Inactive SANDICOR #1
Aug 30, 2008 Price Changed $32,000,000 – TheMLS #08-277145
Jul 01, 2008 - Listed * – Inactive SoCalMLS #2
May 12, 2008 - Listed * – Inactive SANDICOR #1
May 03, 2008 Listed $39,000,000 – TheMLS #08-277145
Jun 19, 1998 Sold (Public Records) $1,200,000 5.5%/yr Public Records
Jun 13, 1988 Sold (Public Records) $700,000 – Public Records

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-02 10:30:14

$34 million.. that reminds me of Today’s House… not for sale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Hywet_Hall_and_Gardens

Images:

http://tinyurl.com/6fpk3ld

1915 10+/5+ Tudor Revival estate manse in Akron Ohio. Built by F.A. Sieberling, founder of Goodyear Tire, it alos has extensive gardens and landscaping. The Sieberling family donated it to a non-profit in the 50’s, and is still open for tours.

I visited n 2008. One of the guides in the house told me that if the house were to be built today, it would cost about $34 million, including all the hand carving.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:42:03

I like “modern” but that place makes a fine arts museum look cozy.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:20:41

I submit that it is potential high-end home sellers, not buyers, who will be affected by this big change. Potential buyers have the flexibility to either buy a less expensive home or to rent. By contrast, high-end owners just got stucco.

Five on Friday Q&A
What would-be borrowers should know about new loan limits
Written by Lily Leung
12:17 p.m., Sept. 30, 2011

A big change in the mortgage sector that takes effect Saturday may affect some potential homebuyers in San Diego County.

Federal home-loan limits will change across the country, including locally, concerning some lenders who believe the shift will adversely affect the housing market.

Jonathan Jerotz, vice president of mortgage lending at Guaranteed Rate in San Diego, explains the adjustments and shares his thoughts on how they may impact certain people seeking home loans.

Jerotz, who’s a regular guest on the Mr. Credit personal-finance radio show on ESPN 1700 AM, offers his insights via email:

Q1: What kind of loan-limit changes should consumers expect from FHA, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — basically loans backed by government-sponsored enterprises?

A: We will see changes on the high-balance conforming loan limits (from $417,000 to the new limit) for all three agencies. In San Diego County, the limit will drop from $697,500 to $546,250.

Q2: When do these changes go into effect?

A: The changes take effect for any loan that is funded after Sept. 30. If a mortgage is in process at the old loan limit and is not funded by Sept. 30, it will not be able to close. It will not be possible to start a new application under the old loan limits at this time.

Q3: Will these changes matter to potential homebuyers in San Diego County?

A: These changes will adversely affect homebuyers in the mid- to higher-price range as a basic 20 percent down rule will hit buyers in the pocketbook as well as a higher interest rate for a true jumbo loan product that will be needed to close these transactions.

Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2011-10-02 11:15:52

What would the Gilroy strawberry picker of Fall 2011 do now?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 16:54:18

Rent.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:43:05

BA DUMP BA!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:28:47

This guy seems like a lot less of a rabble-rouser than his predecessor.

Fed Reserve official tells San Diegans pace of recovery “disappointing”
Written by Elizabeth Aguilera
1:49 p.m., Sept. 30, 2011

James Bullard, St. Louis Federal Reserve President

St. Louis Federal Reserve President James Bullard told a San Diego audience Friday that the pace of economic recovery this year has been “disappointing” and if the economy continues to weaken the Fed could ease monetary policy.

“I don’t think the Fed is out of ammunition by any stretch of the imagination,” he said.

On Europe: “That is going to be a slow moving process juxtaposed against a fast moving crisis. I believe all the European countries will back their banks when it comes down to it.”

On White House influence: “We are unabashed technocrats at the Fed. Not a lot of influence from the outside.”

On Operation Twist: “I would’ve supported that. I thought the impact of the program would be marginal. I was happy to support the chairman on that.”

On potential recession: “There is more recession risk then earlier this year but not so high as a probability.”

On the election: “The Fed and Fed Open Market committee has not been overly influenced by the election year, as I said we are very technocratic. It’s not possible to win an election by saying what the Fed should have not done or done.”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:38:33

Notice how the question they asked the panelists had the opposite orientation from the headline question? Highly confusing, IMHO (but I fixed it)…

U-T EconoMeter
EconoMeter: Is Fed out of tools to boost the economy?
Is there more the Federal Reserve can do to spur economic growth?

Written by Roger Showley
6 a.m., Oct. 1, 2011

The Federal Reserve building in Washington, D.C., is where Chairman Ben Bernanke and other board members set monetary policy — Photos.com

The question: Is there more the Federal Reserve can do to spur economic growth?
Marney Cox, San Diego Association of Governments

Answer: No

The Fed has already accomplished all that monetary policy is expected to achieve: increase the supply of liquidity (money), that had been dramatically reduced as a result of the collapse (deleveraging) of the mortgage-backed securities that caused the housing price bubble, restoring stability to the banking system. In other words, the problem isn’t housing, it’s the way it was financed. Chairman Bernanke has said the keys to robust economic growth are not controlled by the Federal Reserve. Recent dissenting votes by Fed board members confirm this appraisal. To continue to repeat the same or similar “monetary policy” exercises now may produce the opposite of the desired effect in consumers and businesses, destabilization.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 09:44:51

After several decades of encouragement from financial advisers for American households to put more of their long-term savings into the stock market, it has proven an unreliable store of value.

Where should households turn for financial stability, now that the stock market has failed them?

in depth
What to expect in the stock market next quarter
Don’t expect the stomach-flipping gyrations in stock markets to stop anytime soon
Traders work on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Investors and consumers alike are on a nonstop bumpy ride that will continue through the rest of the year, experts say. AP Photo

Keep your hands inside and your seat belt on.

Investors and consumers alike are on a nonstop bumpy ride that will slide right into the fourth quarter from the third.

Stock markets roiled, plummeted and spiked throughout the three-month quarter, which ended Friday, inspired by near-hysterical news about the European banking crisis, emotional and public wrangling in Washington, D.C., over the deficit and budget, zero job creation in August and fears of a double-dip recession.

At the close of the third quarter on Friday, the Dow Jones industrial average dropped 12.1 percent, the S&P 500 index fell 14.3 percent and the Nasdaq composite decreased nearly 13 percent. On Friday alone, the Dow dropped 2.2 percent, or 240.6 points, to 10,913.38; the S&P 500 decreased by 2.5 percent, 28.98 points, to 1,131.42; and the Nasdaq fell 2.6 percent, 65.36 points, to 2,415.4.

Those problems are far from a crescendo. Market and economic experts expect the fourth quarter to be just as troublesome as the last, especially if difficulties are not resolved or other challenges arise.

“We are in a new environment where volatility will be a constant that we are going to have to continue to live with,” said Tom Lydon, publisher of ETF Trends and chief executive officer of Global Trends Investments in Newport Beach. “It doesn’t make investors feel good. Volatility makes investors feel there is more risk.”

What to watch for in the 4th quarter

Europe: Investors and Wall Street want to see a global policy response to the sovereign debt issues and banking crises that will arrest the decline and work toward stabilization.

Earnings: As companies release third-quarter earnings, experts say they may downplay the fourth quarter as they prepare for a slower-than-expected retail season.

Jobs: The unemployment figures remain in the double digits for San Diego and California. Downward movement in the rates will go a long way toward propping up consumer and corporate confidence.

Washington, D.C.: With the House-Senate supercommittee meeting in November to decide on deficit cuts, experts say the discussion needs to be clean and resolute with a clear decision by the deadline.

An investor’s perspective

Jim Puplava, chief investment strategist at San Diego-based PFS Group, a broker, dealer and money manager of private accounts.

“Be on defense. We have high cash levels, 25 to 35 percent, we have hedges in and we own large, high-quality, dividend-paying blue-chip stocks. I recommend focusing on companies you understand and feel comfortable with. Stick with quality and stability at this time. I call it basics. With the economy weakening, people will pull back on spending, but they will not stop buying groceries or putting gas in their cars. They are not going to stop buying the things they need. For example, we favor companies like Walmart, Johnson & Johnson and utilities, companies that offer products and services that people will continue to buy even in recessionary times. Owning investments that are stable and pay you dividends is one of the best places to be right now. You should also have some cash on the sidelines until this thing works itself out.”

Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2011-10-02 11:13:37

If I say the alternative to stocks is gold, a lot of HBBers will flame me. If I say the alternative to stocks is T-bills, a lot of HBBers will flame me.

In 1987 a lot of punsters were saying the stock market is rigged and they will never ever invest in stocks again. Another group said that in 1929. another group said that in 2002.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 16:58:59

I’m not one of those HBBers who will flame you; I am seriously of the opinion that there is no obvious place at the moment to park your savings/investment portfolio/wealth — whatever you call it. Perhaps the academic financial economist’s notion of an efficient market* has finally become a reality, now that all investment classes appear questionable?

*One where all available information regarding risk and expected future returns on different asset classes is fully reflected in prices.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:00:54

In other words, all asset classes are currently vulnerable to the financial market equivalent of an EF5 tornado or a magnitude 8.0 earthquake, except for Uncle Buck, who offers a 0% return in exchange for safety.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 09:50:45

They’re rich and famous and in foreclosure

How does Nicolas Cage get behind on his mortgage payments? The same way other rich and famous people do.

“They’ve stretched themselves higher than they probably should have,” says John Anderson, owner of Twin Oaks Realty in Minneapolis and a National Association of Realtors expert in foreclosures. Some couldn’t keep up when the rates on their adjustable rate mortgages shot up, Anderson says. Price drops at the high end of the market were so steep that a sale wouldn’t cover the debt. In other words, high-end homeowners face the same problems that plague the not-so-rich-and-famous.

Nicolas Cage

The star: He’s an Academy Award-winning actor (for “Leaving Las Vegas”), nephew of multiple-Oscar-winning filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola and the former son-in-law of Elvis.

The house: Make that “houses.” In November 2009, Cage lost two New Orleans homes — one in the French Quarter, the other in the Garden District — worth a combined $6.8 million, according to a CNNMoney.com report. Cage was behind $5.5 million in mortgage payments and he owed $151,730 in property taxes to the city of New Orleans. Regions Banks paid $4.5 million for the properties

Erin Moran

The star: She’s best known as Richie Cunningham’s freckle-faced little sister Joanie on the 1970s sitcom “Happy Days” and co-star of the spinoff “Joanie Loves Chachi.”

The house: Los Angeles County court records posted on the entertainment website TMZ.com show that Moran, also known by her married name Erin Fleishmann, owed $315,930 on the Palmdale, Calif., home. The Bank of New York Mellon Trust Company bought the house at auction for $291,150 in July 2010. According to TMZ, Moran stayed in the home after losing it to the bank and had to be evicted.

Lisa Wu-Hartwell

The star: Viewers of Bravo’s “Real Housewives of Atlanta,” may remember Wu-Hartwell from the first season as one of the network’s touted “six fabulous women from Atlanta’s social elite.” Hubby Edgerton Hartwell, the former Oakland Raiders linebacker, made frequent appearances.

The house: According to court records posted on TMZ.com, the couple borrowed $2.9 million to buy their suburban mansion in June 2007. Just more than two years later, Bank of America paid $1.9 million for the house at a foreclosure sale at the Forsyth County, Ga., courthouse, after the Hartwells defaulted on their adjustable-rate mortgage from the bank.

Lenny Dykstra

The star: Nicknamed “Nails,” the former Major League Baseball pro was an outfielder for the Mets and the Phillies during the late 1980s and early 1990s. After filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2009, Dykstra, in a move many found ironic, started an online financial advisory firm in 2010 called Nails Investments.

The house: Dykstra bought the 6.5-acre property in Thousand Oaks, Calif., from hockey pro Wayne Gretzky for $18.5 million in 2007, according to the Los Angeles Times. He lost the house in a Ventura County foreclosure sale in November 2010 to a winning bid of $760,712, the newspaper reported. Dykstra owed about $12 million to JPMorgan Chase.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/they-re-rich-and-famous-and-in-foreclosure-1.aspx - 74k -

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-02 10:45:24

“Moneyball” (the book) has some insight on Dykstra.

Let’s just say he’s no intellectual. A trait that may have helped him as a MLB hitter. Probably not so much as a “Financial Advisor”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:02:18

“How does Nicolas Cage get behind on his mortgage payments? The same way other rich and famous people do.”

Stupid is as stupid does.

– Forrest Gump

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-10-02 09:51:54

I think we may have just crossed an important line in the housing-bubble aftermath: even USA Today is now referring to “shadow inventory”:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/story/2011-10-01/housing-shadow-inventory-foreclosed-repossessed/50618678/1

Shadow inventory keeps home prices depressed

By Adam Belz, USA TODAY Updated 1d 21h ago
DES MOINES – It used to be when someone was moving out of a house along mail carrier Rob McGregor’s route, he’d see a “For Sale” sign quickly go up in front.

Now, when houses along his northern Des Moines route empty out, it’s not unusual for them to stay that way. There’s no sign or Realtor’s phone number or house-hunters stopping by for extended periods.

Stagnant home prices have become part of the new normal nationwide, and one of the big reasons is the nation’s giant shadow inventory — the hundreds of thousands of homes like those on McGregor’s route that are either in foreclosure or repossessed by banks, but not yet on the market.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:44:40

Oh HO. Interesting. Good find.

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-02 11:14:53

“nation’s giant shadow inventory”

Interesting characterization, no sugar coating.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:18:01

The cat’s out of the bag. Every literate soul from coast to coast knows the shadow inventory is going to lead the housing market down on the next leg of the price avalanche.

The denial phase of the housing crash is finally giving way to the avalanche phase. Try not to catch yourself a falling snowball!

Shadow housing stock looms in mired market

Homes in limbo by foreclosure or repossession could drag down prices for years in Iowa and the U.S.
10:46 PM, Sep. 24, 2011

Holly Olson, director of the Neighborhood Finance Corp., stands by the back door of a Des Moines property that has been abandoned by its owners but isn’t in foreclosure yet. / Justin Hayworth/The Register

ADAM BELZ and DONNELLE ELLER

SHADOW INVENTORY: Shadow inventory is defined as homes in foreclosure, and homes already owned by the foreclosing bank. Some organizations also include seriously delinquent mortgages — homes whose owners are more than 90 days past due.

WHY AREN’T HOMES FOR SALE? Generally the homes haven’t been put up for sale either because they’re tied up in foreclosure proceedings or banks are keeping them off the market in hopes that housing prices will improve, said Dan Vessely of the Iowa Mortgage Bankers Corp.

LENGTHY FORECLOSURE PROCESS: In Iowa, foreclosures typically take six months, according to the U.S. Foreclosure Network. That’s slightly above the national average of 165 days, and longer than in 34 other states. Nineteen of the 20 states where foreclosure takes the longest, including Iowa, handle foreclosures in the judicial system. The 20 states with the fastest foreclosure processes have non-judicial procedures.

Used to be, when someone moved out of a house, Rob McGregor saw a “for sale” sign go up.

The mail carrier has seen something different over the past couple of years. Houses along his route near Beaverdale Park on Des Moines’ west side go dark and stay that way. No sign, no Realtor’s phone number, just an empty house.

“I do see that more than I used to,” McGregor said.

The new normal is stagnant home prices, and one reason is the hundreds of thousands of homes either in foreclosure or repossessed by banks — a giant shadow inventory of homes waiting to go on the market.

Already, more houses are for sale in America than people want to buy, and though sales of existing homes rose in August, the roughly 1.6 million homes in the nation’s shadow inventory promise to drag down home prices for years, experts say. In Iowa, 10,856 homes were in foreclosure or already owned by a bank, according to a July report from RealtyTrac, a national website that tracks such properties. Those homes will take nearly three years to sell, RealtyTrac estimates. While more than 6,000 of them are already owned by banks, it’s not clear how many are on the market.

“There’s just a layer of gloom coming beyond what’s there now,” said Dan Vessely, president of the Iowa Mortgage Bankers Corp. “It’s going to take a longer length of time for houses to gain significant value.”

Economists believe the housing crisis remains at the core of America’s economic problems. When home prices are dropping, consumers lose wealth, their confidence is shaken and they spend less money. When someone’s mortgage is underwater, they can’t move to find a new job.

The nation has lost $6.7 trillion in housing wealth since 2006, said Scott Andersen, an economist for Wells Fargo in Minneapolis, and the housing industry’s capacity to generate wealth has evaporated.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-02 20:36:03

“Already, more houses are for sale in America than people want to buy”

Well, that’s what happens when you consign half the workforce to menial jobs. Those people can’t buy houses.

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-02 12:09:05

700 arrested after protest on Brooklyn Bridge

October 1, 2011 6:24 PM

(CBS/AP) NEW YORK -New York City police say about 700 protesters have been arrested after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down a lane of traffic for several hours.

Critics say this leaderless resistance movement is unorganized, but protesters claim they don’t need one focus.

“We don’t have one central argument,” said Jed Brandt of Brooklyn. “We have a lot, but the basic issue is our democratic structures are broken in this country.”

And when a Congressman showed up - Rep. Charles Rangel, who told protesters, “We have to take our country back” - demonstrators made it clear government isn’t working.

“You, sir, have no business being here - you’re part of the problem,” they retorted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/01/national/main20114373.shtml - -

Comment by easthawaii
2011-10-02 13:56:22

They were trapped on the bridge by police:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4&feature=player_embedded

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 14:49:03

And when a Congressman showed up - Rep. Charles Rangel, who told protesters, “We have to take our country back” - demonstrators made it clear government isn’t working.

“You, sir, have no business being here - you’re part of the problem,” they retorted.

Beautiful…..just beautiful.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 15:43:47

Yup, gives me hope if they’re willing to reject the opportunists with name recognition trying to jump in front of the parade…like the tea party failed to do.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:23:40

The race card saved him from time in the slammer.

Why can’t criminals serve prison time, regardless of race? I personally espouse a color-blind, dicrimination-free society.

July 30, 2010 10:15 AM

Charlie Rangel: List of Charges
By Jill Jackson

The House Ethics Committee brought 13 charges against Democratic Rep. Charlie Rangel of New York yesterday.

For each violation, the Investigative Subcommittee scrutinizing Rangel determined there is “substantial reason to believe that a violation of the Code of Official Conduct, or of a law, rule, regulation, or other standard of conduct applicable to the performance of official duties or the discharge of official responsibilities by a Member, officer, or employee of the House of Representatives has occurred.”

Below is a summary, and excerpts, from the Statement of Alleged Violations.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:37:06

“Equal time for the same crime”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:29:28

I’m sure he is just the innocent victim of a smear campaign.

‘Crime’-time Rangel
Freebie mail not just an ethics slap
By GEOFF EARLE, Post Correspondent
Last Updated: 4:01 PM, November 18, 2010
Posted: 1:31 AM, November 18, 2010

WASHINGTON — The House ethics panel decided not to take action on one of the charges against Rep. Charles Rangel because prosecutors and the courts should handle it — the first formal indication the Harlem Democrat could face criminal charges, it was revealed yesterday.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-02 18:20:31

“You, sir, have no business being here - you’re part of the problem,” they retorted.

Brilliant. Treat the good Congressman with civility, but make it clear you won’t be fooled again. Maybe there’s hope after all.

Comment by ecofeco
2011-10-02 18:47:27

It’s a start, but don’t hold your breath.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 12:13:01

Realtors Are Liars®

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 13:32:36

INVESTING
OCTOBER 2, 2011

Investors Sing a New Tune—’Won’t Get Fooled Again’
By SIMON CONSTABLE

Now is not the time to let yourself be suckered into getting back into stocks.

Sure, the markets had a couple of spectacular days last week, but don’t let that fool you into thinking all is well again with the world.

It’s not. There’s still plenty of uncertainty out there. Yes, the Dow Jones Industrial Average finished Friday up 1.3% for the week, one of the Dow’s better showings in months. But the week before was one of its worst in years. And the Dow is still down 5.7% for 2011.

The Nasdaq Compsite is also down 9% for the year, and the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index is off 10%.

That’s exactly why you need to stay cautious right now. In all likelihood, things will get worse before it’s all done.

“It could be weeks — if not months — before we see the end of the downside,” says Michael Woolfolk, a senior currency strategist at BNY Mellon in New York.

Last week’s relative tranquility in the stock markets belies the fact that the problems that caused those summer gyrations haven’t receded. Europe is still a mess. Economies are cooling all around the globe. And the U.S. government’s debt isn’t getting any smaller.

Here’s a recap of those top three economic monsters still threatening us and how to invest appropriately for each:

 
Comment by easthawaii
2011-10-02 13:54:39

They were trappd on the bridge by the police:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdIv5teKJB4&feature=player_embedded

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:35:16

“End War, Rebuild America”

Sign held by one of the protestors in the linked YouTube…not a bad idea, but how to get there from here?

Comment by rms
2011-10-02 18:06:56

“Sign held by one of the protestors in the linked YouTube…not a bad idea, but how to get there from here?”

First you must convince the brainwashed and dull that Jesus needs to rearrange his return destination. The middle-east is at the core of our international problems, and trying to prevent the inevitable is siphoning away our prosperity.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 18:26:51

WRONG.

The ISRAELI Gov. is the core of our international problems.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by rms
2011-10-02 19:26:19

We should not be in the business of telling other governments how to address their problems. Likewise, we shouldn’t be supplying any of them with arms and money either. Ethnic and religious land occupation issues spanning several millennia are not easily resolved; best to stay uninvolved. Our totally biased support has prompted the opposition to carry the fight to our shores, and there is no end in sight.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-02 19:39:45

“Ethnic and religious land occupation issues spanning several millennia are not easily resolved;”

BS. There wasn’t any problem until the partition agreement just after WW2.

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 20:32:08

My fave was “I can’t afford lobbyists. I’m a 99%er.”

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 17:53:20

Got flight-to-quality assets?

Oct. 2, 2011, 4:53 p.m. EDT
New Greek austerity plan short of target: report
Parliament to vote on cabinet budget proposal
By Steve Gelsi, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The Greek Finance Ministry on Sunday cleared an austerity plan for approval by Parliament that falls short of targets set by the European lenders, according to media reports.

The draft budget calls for a deficit of 8.5% of Greece’s gross domestic product in 2011, falling short of a target of 7.6%, Reuters reported.

The deficit will be reduced to 6.8% of GDP in 2012, but still short of the mark of 6.5% of GDP, according to the plan.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 19:18:38

Oct. 2, 2011, 10:11 p.m. EDT
Warning signs from developer capitulation
Commentary: Watching fallout from shadow lending ‘time bomb’
By Craig Stephen

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — While China’s domestic stock markets are closed for the week-long National Day holidays, there is no respite for mainland Chinese developers listed in Hong Kong, who could face another selling onslaught.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 19:20:03

OCTOBER 3, 2011

Spooked Investors Make a Run for Safety
BY TOM LAURICELLA

After a tumultuous third quarter, many investors remain hunkered in the bunkers of the financial markets, focused on a single goal: safety.

“The theory was to live to fight another day,” says Mark Enman, head of global trading at money manager Man Investments.

Sparking the retreat has been a volatile and painful period that has traders checking their calendars to see if somehow they have been transported back in time to the financial crisis of three years ago.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average finished the third quarter down 12% at 10913.38, a loss of 1,500.96 points.
….

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-02 21:00:38

The Dow Jones Industrial Average finished the third quarter down 12% at 10913.38, a loss of 1,500.96 points.

That’s an amazingly round number.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 19:22:11

Halloween is just around the corner… try not to buy yourself any frightful assets.

OCTOBER 3, 2011

Spooked Investors Make a Run for Safety
BY TOM LAURICELLA

After a tumultuous third quarter, many investors remain hunkered in the bunkers of the financial markets, focused on a single goal: safety.

“The theory was to live to fight another day,” says Mark Enman, head of global trading at money manager Man Investments.

Sparking the retreat has been a volatile and painful period that has traders checking their calendars to see if somehow they have been transported back in time to the financial crisis of three years ago.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average finished the third quarter down 12% at 10913.38, a loss of 1,500.96 points.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 19:25:56

DOWN!

Global Dow Realtime USD

DJI: GDOW 1,712.52

Change -13.16 -0.76%

Volume 504.65m

Oct 2, 2011, 10:23 p.m.

Previous close 1,725.68

Day low 1,712.36

Day high 1,725.53

Open: 1,725.49

52 week low 1,671.26

52 week high 2,270.47

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-02 20:03:17

I’m a little frightened about Russia. It’s been like a patient bleeding out since August. I’m not afraid in a domino sense as much as I’m afraid of what happens if they collapse.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 20:41:33

It’s happened before — been there, done that…

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 20:50:21

U.S. NEWS
OCTOBER 3, 2011

Wall Street Protest Spreads
By ANDREW GROSSMAN in New York and JACK NICAS in Chicago

The anti-Wall Street protest in Lower Manhattan entered its third week with hundreds of arrests after the group blocked traffic Saturday on the Brooklyn Bridge, and budding copycat movements across the U.S. continued to stage smaller-scale protests, planning them online on social networking sites.

Inspired by the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrations in New York, some 100 people gathered Sunday outside the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago to protest inequities in the nation’s financial system. WSJ’s Jack Nicas reports.

Protesters held sizable gatherings in Chicago and Los Angeles. In other cities, like San Francisco and Pittsburgh, protests were smaller or existed only in a planning stage. A website, occupytogether.org, lists groups that are offshoots of the New York protest. Activists have begun organizing outside the U.S., including in Prague, Melbourne and Montreal.

In New York, the protesters initially set out to occupy Wall Street but were rebuffed by police. Instead, the group set up in a nearby park, keeping the “Occupy Wall Street” moniker. The spread to other cities appears largely organic—the protests don’t have a central organizer—and the idea came from a Canadian magazine and grew on social media websites.

On the heels of the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrations in New York, protesters have gathered in downtown San Francisco. WSJ’s Geoffrey A. Fowler reports.

Those protesting in New York have been circulating a list of grievances, most of which are aimed at corporations that they say are too powerful and often unethical. Among the complaints: bank executives received “exorbitant” bonuses not long after receiving taxpayer bailouts and companies have “poisoned the food supply through negligence” and “continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate better pay and safer working conditions.”

Many of the protesters are young. Joblessness seems to be a persistent theme. A blog that has become popular has pictures of people’s faces next to stories of economic woe and messages of support for the protesters.

“From 2006-2009 I owned a business with 12 employees,” reads one, superimposed over a photo of a man and his young son, both smiling. “I closed my doors in 2009. I lost my home in 2010. I lived in my truck for six months. Now I rent a tiny room. I have no health insurance.”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-02 21:02:06

Snag for Perry: Offensive Name at Texas Camp
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
Published: October 2, 2011

The campaign of Gov. Rick Perry of Texas found itself on the defensive on Sunday over a report that he had hunted at and taken guests to a West Texas camp with a racially charged name that his father, and later Mr. Perry, had leased.

The Washington Post reported on Sunday that at least seven people it interviewed said the name for a portion of the property, Niggerhead, was visible on the rock at the entrance “at different points in the 1980s and 1990s,” and that a former worker said he believed he had seen it as recently as three years ago.

The hunting camp is near the small town where Mr. Perry grew up. The Perry campaign did not dispute that the racial slur was used as a name for the property. But it issued a statement saying that the name was changed soon after Mr. Perry’s father, Ray, joined a lease that gave him hunting rights there almost 30 years ago.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post