Bits Bucket for October 23, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
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(Dang, eyes just had pancakes yesterday.) 3 am? Can’t drink mimosas least eyes see sunlight, back to bed…
“One of the lessons is that if you want to grow your economy towards the creative direction of the 21st century, a big banking sector, even if it is successful, is in fact bad news,” Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, Iceland’s president.
A creative spirit helped the country recover, as former bankers found new jobs in other industries that are, on the whole, more helpful for the country, he said.
Iceland’s president: Social media turns government into a ’sideshow’
By John D. Sutter, CNN
Fri October 21, 2011 | Filed under: Innovations
Camden, Maine (CNN) — Facebook updates and YouTube videos are becoming more important to global affairs than governments, Iceland’s president said this week.
“This so-called social media has transformed our democratic institutions in such a way that what takes place in the more traditional institutions of power — congress, ministries, even the White House or the presidency and the cabinet in my country — has become almost a sideshow,” Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, Iceland’s president, said in an interview with CNN on Thursday at the PopTech conference here in coastal Maine.
“I know it’s a strong statement, especially coming from someone who spent most of his life within those institutions. But the power of the social media is, in my opinion, transforming the political process in such a way that I can’t see any chance for the traditional, formal institutions of our democratic systems to keep up.”
The statement comes after years of hardship for Iceland, which suffered the collapse of its financial system in 2008 and a massive 2010 volcano eruption that shut down international travel in the region. The country saw widespread political protests during this period, leading Grimsson to say Iceland was the example that Egyptians and now the global Occupy Wall Street movements followed.
He’s also using the Internet to promote tourism in his country.
A video posted on the site Vimeo shows the president sitting behind a wooden desk and inviting anyone who will listen to come to his house for “delicious pancakes.”
“It’s a great idea because it also displays that the essence of Icelandic society is openness and friendliness,” he said. “It’s one of those countries that’s still assuming that anyone who come comes as a friend until proven otherwise, whereas most of the world is moving in a different direction — assuming everyone is a threat, until proven otherwise.”
The offer for presidential pancakes, by the way, is still on the table for those who act fast; and he’ll serve them just the way his grandmother did, “with cream and jam.”
“I’m not going to open a pancake restaurant,” he said, laughing. “I’m just going to do it on a smaller scale.”
Megabank, Inc, to the world’s free people:
“I am become Death, the destroyer of nations.”
“…congress, ministries, even the White House or the presidency and the cabinet in my country — has become almost a sideshow…”
This is called Democracy in action!
Pancakes with the president of Iceland sounds like a pretty cool offer. I’ll bring some maple syrup, though. Who the frick puts jam and cream on pancakes?
“One of the lessons is that if you want to grow your economy towards the creative direction of the 21st century, a big banking sector, even if it is successful, is in fact bad news,”
So, so true.
Maybe he meant whipped cream. That’s acceptable.
Waves of austerity weaken Greek Socialists
By DEREK GATOPOULOS
Posted on Sunday, 10.23.11
ATHENS, Greece — Politicians hate yielding power. But in recession-hit Greece, more governing Socialists are choosing to do so rather than back Prime Minister George Papandreou’s deeply hated austerity measures.
In growing numbers, Socialist lawmakers are calling for an end to their single-party government, unable to face their angry constituents after two years of punishing tax hikes and slashed pensions, jobs and salaries.
Pressed hard by Papandreou, parliament this week approved some of the harshest cuts since the financial crisis began in order to appease international creditors and keep Greece solvent.
But for many, it was a step too far: Two days of rioting outside parliament left one man dead and nearly 200 wounded. Unions staged a 48-hour general strike that shut down schools, shops, offices and transportation around the country and occupied ministry buildings.
“Papandreou now has large sections of society against him,” said Spyros Tritsas, chief editor of the weekly current affairs magazine Epikaira, which has been critical of Papandreou’s handling of the crisis.
The Socialists themselves showed increasing signs of discontent, as popular support for their party continues to fall dramatically.
Greeks are heading into a fourth year of recession with 16.5 percent unemployment and a rapidly expanding class of poor. Now they face yet more emergency tax hikes, pension cuts, and steep levies on their homes.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/23/2467719/waves-of-austerity-weaken-greek.html - -
Now this is interesting. A tale of two countries, Iceland and Greece. The former told the bankers to go eff themselves, and is well on its way to recovery. The latter is going through long, drawn out agony that will ultimately end in default anyway.
I wonder why the Keynsian’s aren’t writing editorials telling the Greeks, and their creditors, that the solution is to have the govt dig ditches and then fill them back in? Through the miracle of the multiplier effect, they could retire this debt right away if they did it on a large enough scale.
Come on you Keynesian’s! Let the Greeks in on the fantastic economic benefits of war for spending sake! Not a minute to lose either, because Italy, Spain and Portugal are up next for a dose of Keynes miraculous economic cure-all!
Right on!
I guess Greece ran out of OPM. Hence they are finding out socialism does not work…
Keynesian hair-of-the-dog economic cures certainly seem to work better for nations with their own reserve currency printing presses!
‘work better for nations with their own reserve currency printing presses’
IIRC Keynes didn’t say it would only work in the US. Couldn’t the EU print their way out of this mess? Japan is a reserve currency too. Why haven’t they printed their bubbles away?
This is something I often think about; why doesn’t the Fed eliminate the govt debt? Let’s cut to the chase and just have the corporation that controls the reserve currency take the US debt off the books and we can start over. Better yet, they can sweep up the Greek debt while they’re at it. Here’s a chance for the Keynesians to show the world the ultimate in humanitarianism. We don’t need to dig ditches even, or worry about moral hazards. Just meet in the backrooms and solve the worlds problems. What a glorious day!
“Couldn’t the EU print their way out of this mess?”
It looks as though they are going to give it their best shot.
Europe sticks to ‘extend and pretend’ tactic
Sunday October 23 2011
AS European leaders struggle to “solve” the euro crisis, will the proposed measures do the trick?
With the sovereign debt crisis on the eurozone periphery having morphed into a banking crisis at its centre, Europe’s leaders have yet to face up to the magnitude of the problems facing them.
With Germany still adamantly opposed to eurobonds, the best that Europe’s leaders can now manage is a souped-up bailout fund. This would see the €280bn in the EFSF that hasn’t been already committed to the Greek, Irish and Portuguese bailouts used to insure peripheral eurozone bonds, with bondholders being protected against the first 20 per cent of any losses.
Unfortunately, with combined government debts of more than €2.5 trillion, even an average 10 per cent write-down of Italian and Spanish bonds would virtually wipe out the insurance fund. Who would shoulder this loss? The ECB, the EU, the individual eurozone countries?
Europe’s leaders are also discussing pulling forward the €500bn permanent bailout fund that is supposed to take over from the EFSF in mid-2013 to mid-2012 and somehow combining the two. This could create a bailout fund of up to €940bn.
…
Got bail?
Oct. 23, 2011, 1:22 p.m. EDT
Europe leaders tout progress on debt crisis plan
Final agreement on package of measures expected Wednesday
By William L. Watts, MarketWatch
FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — European leaders said they were making progress Sunday toward a wide-ranging plan to deal with the euro zone’s debt crisis, and vowed to keep working toward a solution ahead of a second summit scheduled for Wednesday.
“Today, we will not undertake any decisions, but will undertake preparatory work,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters Sunday in a joint news conference with French President Nicolas Sarkozy after a meeting of heads of state from all 27 European Union nations.
Investors will watch closely Sunday’s summit of European Union leaders in Brussels as well as a second summit due to take place no later than Wednesday. Numerous European companies are also due to report earnings next week, including oil major BP, banking groups UBS and Deutsche Bank, and car makers Daimler, Fiat and Volkswagen.
“A broad agreement is taking shape,” Sarkozy said, emphasizing that leaders aim to reach final agreement on a deal on Wednesday.
Merkel said progress was seen toward an agreement on recapitalizing European banks, but talks were set to continue on the difficult issues of devising a plan for Greece and deciding how to leverage the 440 billion euro European Financial Stability Facility to ensure it can provide more firepower in the fight to keep the debt crisis from spreading to Italy and other major euro-zone economies.
The fight over the EFSF is seen by economists as the most difficult issue. France has pressed to allow the EFSF to leverage its buying power via funding from the European Central Bank. That approach has been opposed by Germany, which fears it would undercut the independence of the ECB. The central bank has also opposed such an approach.
…
When Greece finally leaves the euro, and starts printing their own money, then their recovery will begin. Until then, watch and see the results of austerity.
In the meantime, Greece is proving the validity of Keynesian theory. They’re cutting government spending and increasing taxes and the result is higher unemployment and lower incomes.
“Greece is proving the validity of Keynesian theory.”
The Tea Party would love to validate Keynesian theory right here in the U.S., just before the Fall 2008 elections. You see, the unemployment rate is always assumed to be due to the incumbent’s policies.
‘Greece is proving the validity of Keynesian theory…cutting government spending and increasing taxes’
Why don’t they just follow Keynes and do the opposite? Really, if this is common sense economics why don’t they just get on with the business of the people? Are these Europeans so unenlightened that they don’t know wars are good for what ails ya? We could have a serious EU smackdown; Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, all bombing each other to smithereens (using US bombs of course) and broadcast the whole thing on pay per view. Think of the ratings! Think of the children!Think of Keynes!
“Why don’t they just follow Keynes and do the opposite? Really, if this is common sense economics why don’t they just get on with the business of the people? ”
Because it doesn’t benefit the rich.
I’m not an expert on Iceland but from my general impression, Iceland suffered a brief, significant disruption, but quickly moved beyond it back to normalcy.
I’d really like to understand the Iceland experience from Icelanders. Naturally, banks are promising Armageddon if they don’t get Paid In Full ™. It seems reminiscent of promises of Armageddon if we didn’t get Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction. Or how we’d be fighting them on beaches of Santa Monica if we didn’t fight them in Southeast Asia.
With so much actual productive capacity (food, shelter, transportation, medical) with banks being money-shufflers, middlemen and self-appointed allocation managers, I wonder what removing them for short periods of time would do.
“Rochester has become the job growth engine of upstate New York.”
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111021/BUSINESS/110210322/Rochester-job-growth-labor-Monroe-County?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome
“Rochester region sees food stamp explosion”
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111023/NEWS01/110230334/Rochester-food-stamps?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home
Mind numbing isn’t it? How does the demchronicle reconcile those two statements?
Stop buying the demchronicle. Stop advertising with the demchronicle.
Do they even have meetings, or just click “fwd” and “submit?”
The story writers work for different editors
Food Stamp story is done by the State/National news writers.
The “growth engine” story is done by the business writers.
Every paper in the country has this bi-polar disorder.
This monographs targets layman and journalists, to provide a clear down-to-earth explanation of the workings of the derivatives markets. In addition to trading and industry practices, the purpose and essence of IR Swaps, Mortgage Backed Securities, Credit Default Swaps, Collateral Debt Obligations, etc are explained in simple terms understandable by anyone, and especially if you have ever had a loan or a mortgage.
There is not a single mathematical equation in sight.
The motivation for this document was the considerable nonsense in the main-stream media regarding bankers and derivatives. In many cases, the rhetoric is not only fallacious, but also manipulation in attempts to promote political ideology, and to deceive the public of the true culprits/causes.
The document also provides an account of the financial markets “melt-down” of 2008 with hard data that shows the primary cause of the melt-down was the US Government and its agents (the GSE’s Fannie, Freddie, et al). While bankers have a share of the blame, their contribution is seen as primarily that of “speed” of collapse. The primary issues is the US Government’s 1.9 Trillion dollar “shadow bail-out” of the GSE’s and the effective cover-up of the US Government’s culpability in the melt-down due their 7 Trillion dollar over-supply of the sub-prime mortgage markets, and the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.
The politicians’ trick of “Wall Street bashing”, who by early 2010 had paid-back 100% of the value of TARP, cleverly diverts the public’s attention away from discovering the 1.9 Trillion (just by early 2010) used to “bail-out the Government” by “quietly” printing money (and a lot of it).
http://www.arbitrage-trading.com/ARTiclesMgrphs_DerivativesForDummies.htm - 27k -
Any financial reform that only restricts Wall St is nonsense, since the Gov’s role is 5 - 8 times the size of the entire private sector. “Goldman bashing” may be good sound bites, but utterly meaningless when their entire operation is the proverbial “pee in the ocean”. Moreover, if we are to send Wall St types to jail for the collapse, then surely you must give even bigger sentences to the politicians et al.
I’m sorry but the Wall Street Casinos that followed the repeal of the Glass -Steagall Act ,and all the outlandish leverage ,as well as the faulty ratings on securities/ credit default swaps that were mortgage backed was the villian ,in my opinion .
No doubt the Government was a poor regulator that let the Bankers do what they wanted . The Government supported the
housing market used for a creation of fake wealth by debt no doubt ,but the Ponzi Scheme was a crime wave of epic size that was the creation of the Money Changers .
In that the Money Masters of the Universe no doubt own the Politicians that had a huge affect on policy and Politicians closing their eyes to regulations of the Casinos , as well as all the other incompetent policy that aided Monopoly America and the guting of our job base and the faulty trade policies ,you would just have to say that the Culprits owned the Politicians .
Of course the borrower went along with the mania of fake wealth creation by debt by the fake increase in value of real estate . The main stream news and Government were cheerleaders for this Ponzi scheme to the point that people where walking around like zombies mouthing the talking points that real estate always goes up and faulty lending doesn’t matter .
The same thing happened with the Stock market in 1929 and the lending was faulty at that time also .
Look ,Wall Street likes to create fake wealth if they can so they can leverage it or bet on it if they can and make short term gain and pass the fake wealth creation to the stupid mark .
The greed of this knew no bounds and when it crashed it was simply a matter of how to tranfer the losses to someone other than the true liable parties .
Politicians and Wall Street/Bankers /Corporate America Monpolies /Insurance Commpanies Monopolies are in bed together.
Sel-interest groups are to big to be concerned about American as a whole and what is good for the entirety of the BIG BEEHIVE .
The Politicians were traitors with disregard to what was good for America as a whole . IN my opinion .
Wall Street lobbied for changes to the law that made the Ponzi possible.
It’s like the eight year old kid who borrows $1500 to buy a new bicycle, and says he’ll pay it back in 3 months from profits from his lemonade stand.
End of summer comes early, and the kid defaults. Who should have known better? The kid, or the person who gave an eight year old $1500 bucks?
In this case, however, the person making the loan makes a cash commission from the kid for making the loan, and makes even more money by having drunk Uncle Mort say that the kid looks like a AAA investment, and selling the loan to Grandma Pearl.
Then he makes a few bucks by taking the payments from the eight year old, and depositing them in Grandma Pearl’s bank account.
Forgot to mention that the $1500 bicycle was a $95 Wall Mart Special, sold thru a salesman who was a member of the “National Association of Bicycle Salesman”
““Goldman bashing” may be good sound bites, but utterly meaningless when their entire operation is the proverbial “pee in the ocean”…
The politicians’ trick of “Wall Street bashing”, who by early 2010 had paid-back 100% of the value of TARP…”
I always said you were a bankster apologist/propagandist. Thanks for finally coming out and confirming it.
“I always said you were a bankster apologist/propagandist. Thanks for finally coming out and confirming it.”
If you think I wrote that you give me a lot more credit than I am due. Pick the article apart, I just copied it.
Where are the quotes?
France seeks to sway German veto on ECB bailout role
By Daniel Flynn and Julien Toyer
BRUSSELS | Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:55am EDT
Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel arrives at the European Union summit in Brussels, October 23, 2011.
REUTERS/Sebastien Pirlet
(Reuters) - France lobbied on Sunday to overcome German opposition to giving the European Central Bank a central role in bolstering the euro zone’s bailout fund, arguing it was the only way to draw a definitive line under the widening debt problems.
Setting a Wednesday deadline for a comprehensive deal to resolve the euro crisis, leaders on Sunday were seeking agreement on a means to boost their 440 billion euro ($610 billion) EFSF rescue fund by enough to support the region’s undercapitalized banks and stop the crisis sucking in big economies such as Italy and Spain.
Paris — with support from most of the 17 euro zone states, including Italy and Spain — argues the European Financial Stability Fund should be given a banking license, allowing the fund to leverage its lending capacity by tapping almost unlimited credit from the ECB’s lending window.
Germany, fiercely protective of the independence of the Frankfurt-based ECB, has argued that using it to leverage the EFSF would violate its mandate, leading to an unusually public disagreement between the two powers which normally chart the course for the bloc. The ECB also opposes taking on the role.
Finland and the Netherlands — which have emerged as hardliners opposed to the rising cost of euro zone bailouts — have sided with Germany. But a range of concerned euro zone member states have rallied behind France’s position.
“The French are not letting go of it, and insist on their idea. Their position has not changed,” one European diplomat from a nation sympathetic to Paris’s view said on Sunday.
…
Euro Zone Looks Abroad to Get Support for Bailout
By STEPHEN CASTLE, STEVEN ERLANGER AND JAMES KANTER
Published: October 23, 2011
BRUSSELS — Struggling to assemble a credible backstop for their troubled single currency, European Union leaders on Sunday reached out for wider international support for their bailout fund by seeking investment from non-European countries or the International Monetary Fund.
Officials of the 27 nations in the European Union chalked up one victory from lengthy weekend meetings in Brussels, striking a deal to recapitalize the sickly European banking sector. Despite some resistance, agreement seemed close on a plan worth around 100 billion euros, or $138 billion, to recapitalize banks.
But as of Sunday night, officials still had no definitive answer on how they would expand the euro rescue fund, the European Financial Stability Facility — though one official said they were aiming for €750 billion to €1.25 trillion, or $1 trillion to $1.7 trillion. It is currently $600 billion or €440 billion.
The leaders were also struggling with the amount of the loss that holders of Greek bonds would be required to take in the rescue of that country — by some estimates as much as 60 percent — a crucial element that is essential to making the rest of the E.U package of measures add up.
Final decisions on the two issues will have to wait until a second summit meeting on Wednesday. And longer-term solutions to the problems revealed by the financial crisis are likely to lead to a change in the European Union’s governing treaty, the leaders said — an option that many had dismissed previously.
Mindful that markets on Monday would be watching the announcements from Brussels, the president of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, sought to reassure investors that the European countries were on track to reach a comprehensive deal at a meeting on Wednesday to stop the crisis from spreading.
“We are confident that we will get an agreement on Wednesday,” said Mr. Van Rompuy, whose group represents European Union governments. “The union must regain safe ground.”
…
Big banks under new pressure in Europe crisis
Updated 1h ago
BRUSSELS (AP) – Big banks found themselves under pressure in Europe’s debt crisis Saturday, with finance chiefs pushing them to raise billions of euros in capital and accept huge losses on Greek bonds they hold.
The continent’s biggest financial institutions were at the center of talks as leaders entered marathon negotiations in Brussels, at the end of which they have promised to present a comprehensive plan to take Europe out of its crippling debt crisis.
“Between now and Wednesday we have to find a solution, a structural solution, an ambitious solution and a definitive solution,” French President Nicolas Sarkozy said as he arrived in Brussels. “There’s no other choice.”
In addition to new financing for Greece, leaders want to make the banking sector fit to sustain worsening market turmoil and turn their bailout fund into a strong safety net that will stop big economies like Italy and Spain from falling into the same debt trap that has already snapped Greece, Ireland and Portugal.
But before the final deadline on Wednesday, they have to overcome many obstacles.
On Saturday, the finance ministers of the 27-country European Union decided to force the bloc’s biggest banks to substantially increase their capital buffers — an important move to ensure that they are strong enough to withstand the panic that a steep cut to Greece’s debt could trigger on financial markets.
A European official said the new capital rules would force banks to raise just over euro100 billion ($140 billion), but finance ministers did not provide details on their decision. The official was speaking on condition of anonymity because it had been agreed to let leaders unveil the deal at their first summit Sunday.
“We have made real progress and have come to important decisions on strengthening European banks,” George Osborne, the U.K.’s chancellor of the exchequer, said as he left Saturday’s meeting.
The deal on banks was likely to be the only major breakthrough ready to announce on Sunday, leaving many important decisions and negotiations to be completed by Wednesday night.
…
The Associated Press
October 22, 2011, 5:25AM ET
Latest developments in the global Occupy protests
Some of the latest developments in the Occupy protests taking place in cities across the world:
NEW YORK
Ninety-two-year-old folk music legend Pete Seeger marched with throngs of people in New York City’s tony Upper West Side in support of the Occupy Wall Street protests.
Seeger, accompanied by musician-grandson Tao Rodriguez Seeger, composer David Amram, and bluesman Guy Davis, shouted out a verse as the crowd of about 1,000 people sang and chanted.
They marched peacefully over more than 30 blocks from Symphony Space, where the Seegers and other musicians performed, to Columbus Circle. Police watched from the sidelines.
At the circle, Seeger and friends walked to the chant of “We are the 99 percent” and “We are unstoppable, another world is possible.” Seeger stopped to bang a metal statue of an elephant with his cane — to cheers from the crowd.
At the center of the circle, Seeger and Amram were joined by `60s folk singer Arlo Guthrie in a round of “We Shall Overcome,” a protest anthem made popular by Seeger.
…
Folk music - the Authentic Voice of the Proletariat!
Yeah, but what is it with all the drum banging?
The only people I know who beat on drums for no apparant reason are my 4-6 year old nephews.
It’s not the 60s anymore it’s the Digital Age. Surely someone can come up with something more technologically advanced.
“The only people I know who beat on drums for no apparant reason are my 4-6 year old nephews.”
You obviously never met my next door neighbor nor my ex-hippie BIL.
“….hippie BIL….”
I assume he’s at OWS or OSD?
“I assume…”
I don’t think so. I’m proud to say my two married married sisters chose husbands who have successfully avoided debt. Since they aren’t underwater or otherwise financially strapped, neither of my BILs have personal reasons to protest.
neither of my BILs have personal reasons to protest.
So, they’re happy with .05% passbook savings?
‘Occupy’ protest reveals woes of some new grads
2:50 PM, Oct. 22, 2011
Read the clips about Occupy Wall Street and some of the related protests in Rochester and around the country, and you’ll find no true leader, no clear agenda or specific legislation being proposed. Absent are obvious political ties and traditional lobbying strategies.
Instead, Americans — many of them young, connected through social media and inspired by social and political protests around the world — are challenging why 1 percent of the country managed to talk Washington, D.C., into rescuing it from the Great Recession.
Where, they’re asking, is the bailout for the other 99 percent of the nation, notably the under-employed college graduates who helped create the new movement?
“That is the most typical story of the occupiers on Wall Street,” said Ryan Acuff, 28, of Rochester, who joined the protest in mid-September. Acuff has a master’s degree in psychology from the University of Rochester, works in a local homeless shelter and owes about $16,000 in school debt.
“We don’t have much choice other than to push for something different and create a new society that we want to be in,” he said.
For some people in their 20s and 30s, the system works the way it always has. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that there’s a sizable second group — those young people for whom a college degree is no longer a ticket to a good job in a stable career.
…
‘Where, they’re asking, is the bailout’
Does anyone here remember at what age they learned that two wrongs don’t make a right? I was so young I can’t recall exactly when it was, but I never forgot it.
Isn’t the “Hair of the Dog” hangover cure a case where two wrongs actually do make a right?
“… and you’ll find no true leader, no clear agenda or specific legislation being proposed.”
Hence a movement destined to be hijacked. Stay tuned.
‘a movement destined to be hijacked’
Well, if they think bailouts for student loans is gonna change anything, this movement won’t have to be hijacked, it’ll be laughed away.
Think of all the serious problems that this country has. Decades of corruption, revolving door politics with the executive branch and Wall Street. This isn’t some secret!
99% of us don’t have student loans. 99% of us aren’t unemployed. But we are all held down by the lack of good jobs in this country. We are all held down by the debt peddlers in our govt and the money printers.
Well, technically, 9-24% of us are un/under-employed, depending on what stats you believe.
Just trying to keep it real….
Also probably at least 10% of the adult population has student loans that they’re paying off.
“Hence a movement destined to be hijacked.”
In lieu of getting labeled and executed by ideological nuts through the bribe accepting corrupt media.
The goals are vague and there are no leaders for a reason.
‘The goals are vague and there are no leaders for a reason’
I don’t have a problem with this. But like I said when OWS started, the movie Network comes to mind.
Momentum is a great thing. But let’s be honest, it can be squandered. The public’s attention is not going to last indefinitely.
Look at any politician or political group; they’ve all got a laundry list of societies ills. This movement has the spotlight, and at some point it has to differentiate from all the others. And they have to get it right the first time. Sure, it’s a tall order, but can anyone expect to reform this beast easily?
“The goals are vague and there are no leaders for a reason.”
These vague goals are empty spaces that yearns to be filled. Watch for the entrance of the silver tounged “savior” with “The Answers” to fill them.
Look at the T Party. They established and eventually isolated themselves with easily digestible sloganeering, their self appointed leadership are lawyers for ideological causes, then got swallowed up and co-opted a political party.
Lesson#1- Don’t allow yourself to be defined by hotbutton buzzwords associated with ideological positions.
Ideologies are meant to divide.
“Acuff has a master’s degree in psychology from the University of Rochester”
Now he needs to acquire some real skill so he can pay back his student loan. Perhaps joining a millwright apprenticeship program or attending a diesel mechanic school would work.
“Acuff has a master’s degree in psychology from the University of Rochester”
“Now he needs to acquire some real skill so he can pay back his student loan.”
Like a plumbing degree.
Geez it seems like local govt agencies and nonprofits around here are always advertising for these psych-social work majors to administer the myriad of social services that have burgeoned over the years.
A master;s can also go to work as a therapist.
That would be fine, if there was any demand for millrights, and diesel mechanics were paid more than $15-20/hour.
A lot of this student debt is for training at for profit “trade schools”.
It’s been a running joke in my business for 30+ years that there is a “shortage of aircraft mechanics”.
Why weren’t these people protesting the bailouts in 2008? Why did they wait three years? The OWS protest is not against the bailouts - my conclusion. They are against capitalism per se. They are against individuals working hard to make better lives for themselves, only to move into higher tax brackets and be hated for the extra work.
“Why weren’t these people protesting the bailouts in 2008?”
I honestly think it took these several years for the masses to catch on. Don’t forget that the Fall 2008 incarnation of the Committee to Save the World sold the bailouts to the Congress and the masses as a panacea to end the financial crisis.
Movies like Inside Job certainly helped promote the education process.
’sold the bailouts to the Congress and the masses as a panacea to end the financial crisis’
And it’s still being sold that way. Just about every day I hear someone on NPR say TARP saved us from “Armageddon”. This is how the PTB are able to define history to their own benefit.
I was watching a video from the Occupy San Diego crowd where a Tea Party guy was speaking. Several people shouted that they weren’t against capitalism. The TP guy said he was against crony capitalism. Like one of the presidential candidates said the other day, bail-outs aren’t capitalism. Too big to fail isn’t capitalism.
You’ll never get citizens here to want to be like Cuba. But breaking up corrupt organizations/arrangements is another thing. Maybe we should just demand a public hanging? That would get their attention.
“You’ll never get citizens here to want to be like Cuba.”
Who said that?
“…..save us from Armageddon…..”
Yeah, this economy really feels like it’s “saved”.
Is it too late to vote for Armageddon??
That would get their attention.
So would revoking a MegaCorpInc. “Bidne$$” Charter for:
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
Pattern$ of behavior!
I honestly think it took these several years for the masses to catch on.
That’s what I was going to say.
Bill maybe you should listen to the poormans nation m-f 10pm -1am ET
http://www.poormansnation.com
He just got use of WBAI the left wing Pacifica studios because the Program director remembers him from LA….I will be helping him…so its right at the beginning its on the genesis radio network and has 2 radio stations in CA…not bad for 2 weeks…
We were down at OWS and my take is they just don’t know, but they do know they are screwed.
They know they were sold a bill of goods and now they are stuck with jobs that will never pay enough to get out of debt.
And the only way they will ever own a house is when their parents die and leave it to them.
Sure a lot of the comments are stupid and banal, but then I think this is the beginning of WE HAVE TO TALK…no more excuses….No more political correctness…all cards on the table.
Think of it this way Diversity of opinion INCLUDES ME!
If that is the legacy of this…we will be a much healthier nation because of it…
In 2008 I don’t think they realized how hard they were going to be hit by the job market. Plus more of their parents’ houses are now underwater..then after the election they didn’t want to trouble Obama. Now I think they’re being a bit used as a tool against the Republicans in Congress re the jobs bill and more stimulus etc. The left knows how to gin up these protests, but I think they couldn’t formulate just how to approach it. It’s still pretty fuzzy but that’s because financial & fiscal issues are too complex and just not their thing.
The bailouts happened over a 6-7 day period. They voted no, Wall Street threw a hissy fit (both on the trading floor and behind the scenes), then they came back a couple of days later and voted yes.
Not much time to get to Washington and organize a protest. Seems to me like there were all kinds of phone calls/letters/e-mails, which basically shows you how much influence they have.
In Kapitalist Amerika, Bank robs You!!!
The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One: How Corporate Executives and Politicians Looted the S&L Industry [Hardcover]
William K. Black
“Why weren’t these people protesting the bailouts in 2008? Why did they wait three years? ”
Because they were college students following what everyone told them would be a path to a great career. They didn’t at the time realize that their future was being sold down the river. It wasn’t until they graduated and found no jobs, that they began saying ‘didn’t we have some trillion-dollar bailout, on the future’s (our) dime? What ever became of that?’
And then they found out.
STRAWBERRY ALARM CLOCK (Live) - Incense & Peppermints
Good sense, innocence, cripplin’ mankind
Dead kings, many things I can’t define
Occasions, persuasions clutter your mind
Incense and peppermints, the color of time.
Who cares what games we choose?
Little to win, but nothing to lose.
Incense and peppermints, meaningless nouns
Turn on, turn in, turn your eyes around.
Look at yourself, look at yourself, yeah, yeah
Look at yourself, look at yourself, yeah, yeah, yeah!
To divide this cockeyed world in two
Throw your pride to one side, it’s the least you can do.
Beatniks and politics, nothing is new
A yardstick for lunatics, one point of view
Who care what games we choose?
Little to win, but nothin’ to lose.
Good sense, innocence, cripplin’ mankind
Dead kings, many things I can’t define.
Occasion, persuassions clutter your mind
Incense and peppermints, the color of time.
Who cares what games we choose?
Little to win, but nothin’ to lose.
Incense and peppermints
Incense and peppermints
Sha la la
Sha la la
Sha la la
Sha la la
Sha la la
Sha la la
Slideshow: #Occupy protests across the world
2 hours ago
PROTESTS AGAINST CORPORATE greed have been taking place in cities across the world in recent weeks, from Dublin to Manila.
The Occupy Wall Street protests being held in New York are being cited as having inspired discontented citizens – angry about having to shoulder the costs of risky fiscal behaviours by those in power - to take to the streets.
We’ve taken a look at some of the demonstrations taking place…
…
Occupy Oakland shuts streets, defy eviction order
Matthai Kuruvila, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, October 23, 2011
Hundreds of Occupy Wall Street demonstrators march on Harrison Street toward Lake Merritt in Oakland to protest corporate greed and financial bailouts.
Paul Chinn / The Chronicle
Hundreds of activists with the Occupy Wall Street movement marched Saturday from Oakland City Hall, snaking their way through downtown and around Lake Merritt while they flouted an eviction order.
They closed thoroughfares and freeway ramps, invaded one bank and temporarily shut down another as they spread their message against economic inequality. But after three hours, they returned to City Hall, where they cooked food over open flames, danced and slid back into their tents.
“We’re not leaving,” said a 30-year-old bartender who identified himself only as Jabar. He has been at the camp almost every day and vowed, “We are not going to just walk away.”
Of course, leaving is exactly what city officials had hoped.
‘Democracy in action’
…
What is it about Aussies named Murdoch?
And for the record, feudalism is not capitalism.
‘Violent’ end to Australia’s Occupy protests
(AFP) – 8 hours ago
SYDNEY — Riot police broke up week-long anti-capitalism protests in Sydney on Sunday, with demonstrators claiming they were forcibly evicted from their city campsite in violent dawn raids.
Police said 40 people were arrested after resisting orders to pack up their shelters outside the Reserve Bank of Australia, where they have been holding peaceful protests since last Saturday as part of the global “Occupy” movement.
They had been repeatedly told to move on because they were in breach of the city’s camping regulations and the 5:00 am raid was taken to minimise disruption to the public, Assistant Commissioner Mark Murdoch told reporters.
“We tried to work with them every step of the way for the last eight days,” Murdoch said. “They certainly can’t say they weren’t warned.”
…
Foreclosure Fiasco
Robo-signing: Just the start of bigger problems
By Tami Luhby, senior writer
October 22, 2010: 7:38 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Robo-signing is just the tip of the iceberg.
The revelation that loan servicers were rapidly signing foreclosure documents without even reading them has uncovered a morass of serious paperwork problems.
These issues could potentially prevent some foreclosure cases from proceeding and allow delinquent borrowers to stay in their homes indefinitely or wrangle settlements from their servicers.
“The whole robo-signing scandal has caused many judges to mistrust what servicers are saying in foreclosure petitions,” said Patricia McCoy, a law professor at the University of Connecticut, who co-authored “The Subprime Virus.” “Many judges will scrutinize filings more closely.”
…
allow delinquent borrowers to stay in their homes indefinitely or wrangle settlements from their servicers ??
I don’t get it…They are in default…IMO, they have forfeited their “right” to occupy the property…
I mean, in a basic way of looking at it, isn’t that the deal…I give you a loan, you give me payments in return you get to control the property ?? …
If a judge needs to determine who is capable of signing papers and taking ownership then fine, but that same judge should issue a order of eviction of the the “leach” that lives for free while others bust their hump to make their loan payments and taxes and others pay rent….
+1 scdave
+1+1
You guys are just pizzed because you can’t take advantage of the “unintended bailout”.
There wouldn’t be a problem foreclosing, if the banks didn’t decide all on their own that all that “government regulation” of property ownership was a drag on their profits, and patched up their own system to bypass it.
It’s the only (inadvertant to be sure) bailout that J6P is ever going to get, as flawed as it is. It’s one virtue seems to be that the squatters spend most of their money in the US economy buying stuff. The “free rent” crowd seems to be the only people with any disposable income around here.
If the banksters had it, it would be spent buying politicians, driving up commodity prices, or investing in China or Mexico
“It’s the only (inadvertant to be sure) bailout that J6P is ever going to get, as flawed as it is.”
Not sure which J6P bailout you are referencing. If you are talking about letting those in default stay in their homes indefinitely, I have news for you: The appearance of indefinite forbearance is illusory.
Yep. No place for that last homemoaner dollar to hide. If there is a dime left on the table, the banks (or the government, if the banks go Tango-Uniform) will try to recover it. Because they have no choice.
We’re in the middle of the fifth inning. Game’s not close to being over.
All in all, I’d rather be paying rent on a short lease, at this particular point in history.
California is wooed in mortgage settlement talks
October 21, 2011|By Alejandro Lazo, Los Angeles Times
Seeking to draw California back to settlement talks, state attorneys general and federal agencies offer a proposal for banks to devote $5 billion to refinance the mortgages of as many as 300,000 “underwater” U.S. homeowners.
Under the proposal, homeowners would have to be up to date on their payments and would get new mortgages with lower interest rates. The banks have countered with a $2-billion deal aimed at reaching up to 150,000 homeowners.
California is reemerging as a central focus for state attorneys general hoping to reach a nationwide wrongful-foreclosure settlement with major banks, even though the Golden State walked away from talks three weeks ago.
Iowa Atty. Gen. Tom Miller, who is leading the negotiations on behalf of the states and federal agencies, met with representatives of the nation’s five largest mortgage servicers in Washington on Friday to discuss details of a new plan aimed at enticing California back into the fold.
…
Kamala Harris was a disaster as the SF district attorney. That is unless you were an illegal felon enjoying ‘Sanctuary City’ benefits.
I don’t expect any improvement in her performance.
Another reason to not own a home: Becoming a foreclosure victim can damage your health.
Study: Foreclosure crisis threatening Americans’ health
By Jenifer Goodwin, HealthDay
Updated 2d ago
A new study finds that falling behind on your mortgage payments hurts more than just your finances, as the stress and financial strain that come with the struggle can also harm your physical and psychological health.
…
Researchers examined data collected in 2006 and 2008 on nearly 2,500 Americans who took part in the Health and Retirement Study, a nationally representative sample of Americans older than age 50. The data included questions about overall health, psychological health, income and whether they had fallen two months or more behind on their mortgage payment.
People who reported that they had fallen behind on their mortgage between 2006 and 2008 reported more depressive symptoms, more food insecurity and were more likely to say they weren’t taking prescription medications as prescribed because of cost.
“People are making unhealthy trade-offs when they’re trying to make their mortgage,” said study author Dawn Alley, an assistant professor of epidemiology and public health at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. “We think it’s a very serious issue.”
The study is published in the Oct. 20 online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.
In the past few years, the number of foreclosures began to rise with the collapse of the housing bubble and the financial crisis. By 2009, 2.2 percent of all U.S. homes, or more than 2.8 million properties, were in some stage of delinquency, according to background information in the study. People over age 50 made up about one-quarter of defaults and foreclosures, Alley said.
…
Despite a long track record of dismal failures in the housing arena, many Democrats seem unwilling or uninterested in letting go of their undying faith that housing should be a federal government concern.
October 21, 2011, 8:40 pm
Housing Comments Echo Democrats Worries About Obama’s Plans
By ASHLEY SOUTHALL
With his rebuke Thursday of President Obama’s handling of the housing crisis, Representative Dennis Cardoza of California joined an increasingly vocal chorus of House Democrats criticizing the president’s efforts.
“I am dismayed by the administration’s failure to understand and effectively address the current housing foreclosure crisis,” Mr. Cardoza said. “Home foreclosures are destroying communities and crushing our economy, and the administration’s inaction is infuriating.”
On Friday, some Democrats expressed similar dissatisfaction with what they perceived as a “lack of urgency” in the Obama administration’s and federal agencies’ efforts to stimulate a listless housing market.
Elijah Cummings of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said he understood Mr. Cardoza’s frustration.
“In my opinion, this is a national economic crisis that has been inadequately addressed for too long, and strong, bipartisan efforts are urgently needed,” he said.
…
Home loan defaults jump by 26 percent in California
Associated Press
Posted: 10/18/2011 03:43:06 PM PDT
Updated: 10/18/2011 03:43:09 PM PDT
SAN DIEGO — Banks sent nearly 26 percent more default notices to California homeowners in the third quarter compared with the previous three months, stepping up actions against those with delinquent loans in what may herald a new wave of foreclosures, a real estate information service reported Tuesday.
There were 71,275 first-time notices of default issued in the nation’s most populous state in July, August and September, DataQuick reported. By comparison, there were 56,633 default notices issued in the second quarter of the fiscal year — a three-year low.
“Obviously, some lenders and loan servicers have begun to plow through their backlogs of delinquent loans more aggressively,” DataQuick President John Walsh said in a statement.
…
Tux rental six years ago = $ 105
Tux rental today = $ 177
Same store on eastern long island.
Don’t you love those “deflationary” forces?
So, at these prices this tux guy should be raking in the dough?
He would be, if only he had customers, and in this economy he’s probably short a few.
So to meet his expenses he has to jack up his prices. And these jacked up prices are what you use to measure the inflation rate?
Wrong measurement tool, IMO. A better one would be cash flow.
I see this all the time out here in New York.
The spiral is quite clear - they jack up the prices, customers disappear, cash flow is non-existent. Next thing, the shop is closed.
It’s happened to at least half a dozen business on my street alone!
(It’s New York for those not familiar and dense with stores and shops. There are probably more than 50 stores within a minute from my house, and more than 500 if you are willing to walk five minutes.)
Do your best to tell ‘em Pussycat; They won’t listen to me but they’ll listen to you.
“The spiral is quite clear - they jack up the prices, customers disappear, cash flow is non-existent. Next thing, the shop is closed.”
It seems you have identified a potential pitfall of Fed-engineered anti-deflation inflation.
The problem is the general imagination conflates rising prices with inflation.
Inflation is the expansion of credit.
Deflation is the default of past credit.
Rising prices are a symptom of the credit expansion. You need to look at the origins.
And you can have rising prices because of supply disruptions, etc. but that’s not inflation. Of course, teasing these things apart is hard intellectual work something that the general hoi polloi is hardly capable of. They should ask for a refund on their “education”.
“I see this all the time out here in New York.
The spiral is quite clear - they jack up the prices, customers disappear, cash flow is non-existent. Next thing, the shop is closed.”
BINGO
I’ve been watching this happen everywhere I go.
You forgot the last step…..
“The eventual survivors get all the customers from their former competitors, and keep the prices jacked up.”
The game plan in just about every industry you can name.
LOL
michael: “deflationary” forces?
combo: “you rang?”
It’s Peak Quail I tell ya!
“Recent surveys tell us that there are three adult birds to every one juvenile quail, which indicates to me that we’ve seen virtually no hatch. Lightfoot offered stark figures to support the concern. “Research tell TPWD biologists that Texas bobwhite numbers have declined 80 percent from 1970 to 2009,” he said.”
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/oct/22/bobwhite-quail-population-hit-hard-by-drought/
Do ecosystem failures like extreme drought or massive flooding count as inflation or deflation? Available surface water supplies around here are off 80% and really long term forecasts don’t see much recovery.
No wait, it’s really Peak Cow!!
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-21/shrinking-beef-supply-spurs-record-prices-as-sales-decline.html
Shrinking Beef Supply Spurs Record Prices as Sales Decline
“This week, cattle futures for December delivery rose to $1.24475 a pound in Chicago, a record for the most-active contract. Sonic, a drive-in hamburger chain, said that beef was one of the “primary cost drivers” in the quarter ended Aug. 31. Ground beef jumped to $2.868 a pound in September, the highest since at least 1984.
“Because of drought, we’re going to have fewer cattle for the next several years,” Tim Petry, a livestock economist at North Dakota State University in Fargo, said in a telephone interview. Lower placements at feedlots last month “should be the start of a trend that will ultimately go to lower beef production,” he said. Fed-steer prices next year may average $1.22 a pound, up 6.1 percent from a projection of $1.15 a pound in 2011, an all- time high, Petry said. Record prices may extend into 2013, averaging $1.27 a pound, he said.”
Don`t return the Tux this time and ask them to prove that they own it.
Maybe he can prove he wasn’t himself when he signed it and now he can say: “The store is trying to take my tux!” Since it is now worth 70% more than when he rented it, the store should give him a refund.
LMAO Jeff.
Was the receipt printed by a computer? That’s robo-signing! Call your lawyer! You can get a free tux. They need to get their act together! It’s fraud! /sarcasmoff
Entering you PIN on a debit card transaction is robosigning.
Hey, i think we’re on to something here….
Roughly a 70% increase….I am sure Michael’s income has gone up 70% also right ??…Stagflation…
+1 Jeff…
Tux rental six years ago = $ 105
Tux rental today = $ 177
That Sux
Eyes went mid-night bowling: $1.00 game… Shoes rental: $2.00…free billiards…free popcorn…fun, laughter, social chit-chating.
“Wow, look @ the # drinks coming out of the bar!”
(Hwy slowy turns head, looks at camera with similar smile as Kevin from “The Office”)
Romney deserves credit for opening up the debate on how to end the foreclosure backlog.
DNC Hits Romney on Foreclosure Comments
By Caitlin Huey-Burns - October 21, 2011
The Democratic National Committee is stepping up its offensive on Mitt Romney, attacking the Republican presidential candidate for saying earlier this week that the government should let the foreclosure process “run its course.” The DNC launched a website Friday dedicated to hitting Romney on the issue.
When asked during an interview Monday in Nevada — which is among the states hardest hit by the bursting of the housing bubble — how he would help with housing and foreclosure problems in the United States, Romney responded that one way is “don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom. Allow investors to buy homes, put renters in them, fix the homes up and let it turn around and come back up. The Obama administration has slow-walked the foreclosure process . . . that has long existed and as a result we still have a foreclosure overhang.” He also said the tax credit given to first-time homebuyers was ineffective, but the idea of helping people refinance their homes to stay in them is worth consideration.
Romney expanded this concept during the presidential debate Tuesday night in Las Vegas, saying, “The right course is to let markets work.”
…
Oh my god, that’ll never fly. LOL
Romney is so naive. He really doesn’t have a clue.
-Running it’s course means every big bank in the USA is insolvent. Which may not be a bad thing.
I guess the new plan to bail out the banks is to turn them into slumlords, and let them make money on rental property. The same jackazzez responsible for robosigning. Yeah, that will work out well.
-Running it’s course means the local property tax base goes bye-bye. If investors/banksters own the majority of the residential property, expect to see bribing/lobbying to reduce taxes on rental properties. Making them pay taxes on property will be called “class warfare”. Other taxes will go up. Count on it.
-Notice he doesn’t say anything about selling houses to “priced out renters”
-”Investors” don’t “fix homes” Slums cash-flow better. We’ve got enough crappy rental slumlord owned property around here as it is.
Obama isn’t doing anything the banksters don’t want him to do (other than call them bad names). Obama is just part of the problem.
“Running it’s course means the local property tax base goes bye-bye.”
So honest taxation will potentially be needed to make up for bubble-era property tax assessments.
You have to take whatever he recommends in the context of Hubbard’s moonlighting activities as a bankster consultant.
Romney and Foreclosures: ‘Let the Market Work’
By Clive Crook
Oct 19 2011, 6:18 PM ET 26
Let foreclosures hit bottom and let the housing market work, says Mitt Romney.
Glenn Hubbard, who is advising Romney, takes a different view. He tells the FT that the housing market is broken, and needs to be repaired.
…
Strunk & White rewrite:
You have to take whatever
heHubbard recommends in the context ofHubbard’shis moonlighting activities as a bankster consultant.The Senate bill to offer visas as encouragement for foreigners to snap up U.S. investment homes has attracted Chinese interest.
US ‘house-for-visa’ bill sparks discussion, criticism in China
Updated: 2011-10-22 08:08
By Wang Yan (China Daily)
BEIJING - A bill unveiled by two US senators on Friday aiming to woo foreign homebuyers with residential visas drew mixed reactions in China, with some showing interest and others doubting its feasibility.
The proposal, crafted by Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer and Republican Senator Mike Lee, would allow Chinese nationals, who are currently required to apply for a new US visa every year, to seek five-year, multiple-entry visitor visas, according to AFP.
The average Chinese visitor to the United States spends $6,000, the lawmakers said in a statement.
With the US housing market still in a slump four years after the subprime mortgage crisis, the bill would provide an unprecedented three-year residential visa for foreign nationals who invest $500,000 in a US home.
At least $250,000 must go to a primary residence in which the buyer will live for at least 180 days out of the year “while paying taxes to the US”, the statement said.
With news of the bill appearing on some websites in China on Friday, the prospect of getting US visas for investing in a house worth $500,000 has sparked discussion among Chinese Internet users, partially due to surging house prices in China in recent years.
The market price of an average apartment in central areas of major Chinese cities often exceeds the amount.
A Chinese report on Netease, one of the portal sites in China, received more than 40,000 comments, with some of them eagerly discussing the prospect of residing in the United States at the cost of $500,000.
But many pointed out that foreigners with residence visas cannot work in the US under current immigration rules.
…
Hair of the dog housing bubble hangover cure number ???:
Since an investment craze led to bubblelicious U.S. home prices, perhaps we can solve the post-bubble collapse by encouraging more foreign real estate investment.
21 October 2011 Last updated at 11:43 ET
US economy: Foreign home-buyers sought
A house for sale in Ohio, 22 August 2011
Most foreign homebuyers choose Florida and California for their purchases
Two US senators have proposed a plan to offer visas for foreigners buying homes worth $500,000 (£314,000) or more.
Democrat Chuck Schumer and Republican Mike Lee, sponsoring a bill, say it is a move to increase housing demand.
The proposal is similar to an existing Green Card program for foreigners who invest at least $500,000 in an American business that creates at least 10 jobs.
The US Chamber of Commerce has announced its support for the new legislation proposal.
“Our housing market will never begin a true recovery as long as our housing stock so greatly exceeds demand. This is not a cure-all, but it could be part of the solution,” said Mr Schumer, a Democrat from New York.
Mr Lee, a Republican from Utah, described the bill as a “free market method for increasing demand for housing”.
…
Free market method, by giving a government subsidy……
I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue……
I noticed that, too. What kind of ganga do those Utah politicians smoke?
“Great Balls Of Fire”
You shake my nerves and you rattle my brain,
You live for free and it drives me insane
You broke my will, but what a thrill
Goodness gracious, Deadbeats are Liars!
I laughed at you ’cause I thought it was funny,
You bought a house and it wasn`t your money
I changed my mind, and now I`m cryin`,
Goodness gracious, Deadbeats are Liars!
Live free baby,
Ooooooh! feels good!
Don`t pay baby,
Weeel, you live for free like a Deadbeat should
You’re tryin`, to find,
A free house to call mine, mine, mine, mine!
You shake my nerves and you rattle my brain,
You live for free and it drives me insane
You broke my will, but what a thrill
Goodness gracious, Deadbeats are Liars!
I chew my nails and I twiddle my thumbs,
I pay my bills, but I sure feel dumb
Come on, baby,
Drive me crazy!
Goodness gracious, Deadbeats are Liars!
Jeff, are you sure you’re not Weird Al?
that’s great. Can I borrow? that one’s in my repertoire.
Personal Finance
Young, Frugal, Ready to Ditch Mortgage
By Dr. Don Taylor, Ph.D., CFA & CFP
Published October 18, 2011
Dear Dr. Don,
We are a couple in our early 30s. We both work, are great savers, are happy to stay in our current home for life and have no debt outside of our mortgage. We currently have a $360,000, 10/1 adjustable-rate mortgage, or ARM, that we are paying 6% on. Our home is worth $325,000. We have close to $500,000 in liquid assets. We are approved for a 3.125% 15-year fixed-rate mortgage of $260,000 (we would buy down the rest). However, $66,000 in interest is a lot to pay when we are able to completely pay off our mortgage.
We know it is worth it to refinance at a lower rate since the rates are so low. Should we pay off our mortgage and not have to pay any interest at all, instead? Even with paying off the full mortgage, we still will have around $100,000 in savings. We’ve read about seniors who are debating paying off their mortgage, but have not read about younger homeowners and their decisions. We would love your advice on this matter.
- Terrific Tom
…
Am I missing something?
$500K - $260K = $240K.
How does that end up in $100K of savings?
Something’s not quite adding up here.
Why would you want to pay off a mortgage if you could qualify for a record-low interest rate?
If I were them, I’d pay off 50-70% and let inflation take care of the rest. (Diminishing returns for banks on such a small loan-balance.)
Seems like they have jobs that will match inflation, and they have a good head on their shoulders.
“…jobs that will match inflation…”
That is key, and such jobs are hard to find these days. For instance FedGov jobs have their pay frozen for the next few years…
“… jobs that will match inflation …”
If there are no jobs that will match inflation then we will end up with inflation that will match jobs.
combo,
Are you my freakin’ doppelgänger? Were we separated at birth?
Unlikely since you’re a lot older than I am but I did spend 8 years in Chicago …
combo,
Technically, this is not true. You could literally have them print endless sums of money. Of course, this would end their power permanently which is why they don’t do it.
Your statement is correct under the current system.
I admit I’m not great with math, but I came up with this:
“around” $500,00 liquid - $360,000 mortgage
= about $140,00 in savings left.
As I understand it they are using 100,000 to pay down the current 360,000 mortgage and doing a refi for 260,000 for 15 years.
Oops,
I left of the last part:
“As I understand it they are using 100,000 to pay down the current 360,000 mortgage and doing a refi for 260,000 for 15 years….. and pay 66,000 in interest on for the new loan.
OR, payoff the total 360,000 mortgage now (save refi cost not mentioned) and the $66,000 for the new mortgage.
A good return on investment on 360,000 Dr. Don?
Realtors Are Liars®
Didn`t feel good about yourself when you were a kid?
Wanna feel better?
Cute Kids to Awkward Adults
http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/entertainment-cutekidsakwardadults/?cid=hero_media - 44k
Why eyes like Autumn,…Linus: “Welcome oh, Great Pumpkin!”
http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals/la-trb-california-fall-colors-pg-20111021,0,3788514.photogallery
For those who still add words to their daily diet: Enjoy! (Sunday chores beckon outside…)
http://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/index.htm
World Wide Words is copyright © Michael Quinion, 1996–2011.
Eyes just gots ‘round to this excellent post by Mr. Ben: A Nation Defined By Irrational Exuberance, and would like to hand out some Sunday morning x3 Cheers! to the following:
Tankxs!
Comment by snake charmer
2011-10-21 15:09:38
The abandoned neglected poor stepchild in this country is the person who saved money and now gets 0.2% interest so that we can keep house prices beyond what economic fundamentals would support.
[Amen!]
Comment by OCsandrenter
2011-10-22 14:48:43
it gets even better imagining what the % of homes are w/mortgages that have CLTV >80%-100% therefore unable to qualify for traditional cash out re-fi. Add that (I’m guessing 15%-25%) to the 25% underwater and that spells DEFLATION japanese style…hopefully not as long, but long enuf to expose the naked emperors. 15-20 million houses in the shadow inventory pipeline over the next decade(s).
Comment by Steve J / 2011-10-21 09:43:38
In the Middle Ages the Catholic Church sold indulgences.
Nothing much has changed in 1,000 years.
Comment by DennisN / 2011-10-21 12:26:03
Those indulgences were why Martin Luther nailed some 95 feces up on the Wittenberg church door.
Comment by Kim / 2011-10-21 10:57:42
“Americans have lost a vast amount of
wealthaccess to credit, and they have lost faith in housing asan investmentan ATM.”Fixed it
(But think of the per$pective they’ve gained!)
“A per$pective in time, saves nine.”, or something like that…
What kind of scam could Wall Street come up with to bilk middle-class parents out of their college savings?
FAMILY FINANCES
OCTOBER 23, 2011
The Aggregator
Market Takes Another Bite Out of 529 Plans
Edited By CRISTINA LOUROSA-RICARDO
Third-quarter report cards are in for college-savings plans and the results are likely to trouble many parents.
The new figures, from fund researcher Morningstar, show that investments in 529 plans fell an average of 9.5% in the third quarter and are now down 5.9% this year through Sept. 30.
That isn’t as large as the broader market’s drop—the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index fell 14% and 10% over the same periods—but analysts say it’s the most significant setback for 529 plans since the market crashed in early 2009.
The results come as several states are adding more-conservative investment options, in part to address complaints from parents that the existing plans are riskier than they thought.
In 529 plans, premade portfolios of stocks and bonds are by far the most popular because of their set-it-and-forget-it convenience. These portfolios are either age-based, in that they get more conservative as a child nears college, or static, meaning they don’t change over time.
Parents invested in age-based portfolios may be experiencing some déjà vu. These are many of the same investments that suffered during the market collapse two years ago—even those for students who were within a year or two of college enrollment. Some plans slumped by as much as 25%.
What are parents to do?…
“What are parents to do?”
I suppose it is too late at this point in time for me to point out that they could have done as I have, avoiding Section 529 plans like the plague.
The evil beauty of this scheme is that parents who have lost a bundle on the value of their 529 plans will have to go deeper into debt to fund their children’s college educations. Wall Street Megabanks who underwrite student lending programs get to take Main Street to the cleaners twice!
One option…..
-Enter child’s bedroom
-Pick up pillow
-Apply pillow to child’s face, using heavy pressure, for 10 minutes.
-Check for pulse. Repeat step 3 as required.
-Repeat steps 1-4 for every child occupant.
-Pack and move that night. Leave no forwarding addresses or contact info. Due to the large number of families abandoning properties, it is possible that nobody will notice you are gone.
-Start new life. Tell everyone that you are childless. Reinforce this belief by spouting Randian/Libertarian talking point, about not having kids because you don’t believe in educating them with other people’s money. This will also have the additional benefit of keeping the neighbor’s from being too friendly.
It is recommended that this be done sooner rather than later, preferably before you have developed any emotional bonds. This may not be a problem for recently remarried divorcees with teen-age step children
It’s pretty funny how many Democrat politicians are trying to beat up Romney for suggesting the federal government should get its tendrils out of the foreclosure crisis.
Reid hits Romney on foreclosures
By Steve Tetreault
STEPHENS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Posted: Oct. 18, 2011 | 5:49 p.m.
Updated: Oct. 19, 2011 | 7:48 a.m.
WASHINGTON — In a state where the loss of a family home perhaps has been the most painful outcome of the stressed economy, Mitt Romney took hits Tuesday from Nevada leaders of both parties after commenting that the government should let the foreclosure process “run its course and hit the bottom.”
…
Yep Romney screwed the pooch with that one. Stick a fork in him!
Dentists, patients feel economy’s bite in Sacramento area
http://tinyurl.com/5wsn6zv
“Dentists in the Sacramento region are reporting that business dropped by as much as 25 to 30 percent in the last three years, said Cathy Levering, executive director of Sacramento District Dental Society. That number is about even with the statewide figures for decreased dental business, she said.”
The moral of the story:
If you are smart, we’ll all start treating our disabled and elderly the way the Chinese treat two year olds. Because that free market medical insurance is something you can depend on.
http://tinyurl.com/4y2j867
Social Darwinism = The new paradigm
You talking China?
A still communist run country where religion still officially banned (unless state sponsored).
Or maybe it has something to do with the “one child” policy where law breakers undergo forced abortions.
Sounds like paradise to some on this board…
You must be confusing this board with some other board. Opposition to forced abortions is one thing that both sides of the American abortion debate can agree on.
Right Mike becuase there are a Million or two couples who cant have kids and we need to get them away from deadbeat moms and dads and give them to real parents.
But then we have all those PC doo gooders in the way causing kids to become the next generation criminals, so they can make money off of it (guv JOBS)
The purpose of insurance is to take in as much money as possible, and pay out as little as possible.
That’s because it is a profit making business with a de facto captive audience.
So, one can see that:
a) The system is ripe for abuse due to the captive audience.
b) Perhaps a ‘for profit’ model is not the best one for health care.
Now - don’t get me wrong - a system which effectively harnesses the individual’s desire for self improvement and wealth accrual is almost certainly the one which will generate the most wealth for society. And I don’t believe in impressing people into service, which “health care as a right” does (one’s ‘right’ indicates a ‘responsibility’ on the part of others to observe that right. This would mean that doctors would be obligated to treat people, even if it weren’t in the doctor’s best interest).
Doctors should be paid relative to their importance to society (extremely high). All the middlemen though - insurance, lawyers, etc - are the ones who also wind up extracting a great deal of wealth on the patient-doctor transaction.
As I’ve thought about it more, the concept of a national insurance pool is the one which by far makes the most sense, and would yield the lowest insurance costs. If the goal is to cover everyone in the society.
If we let the market sort it out, the fellow in the article doesn’t get insurance. An actual free market (not a rigged market) efficiently allocates resources, but it may sometimes run counter to the majority’s concept of justice and fairness.
“The purpose of insurance is to take in as much money as possible, and pay out as little as possible.”
1) Collect premiums.
2) Use premium proceeds to pay attorneys to write unintelligible legalese into insurance contracts.
3) Use more of premium proceeds to pay attorneys to defend against policy holders who believe the unintelligible legalese in the contract implies they are due a claims payment.
It occurs to me that these European debt crisis summits (13th in 21 months) are theater to maintain confidence in European debt.
EU Revamping Plans to Contain Debt Crisis
By James G. Neuger and Tony Czuczka - Oct 23, 2011 6:00 PM ET
Europe’s 13th crisis-management summit in 21 months also explored how to strengthen the International Monetary Fund’s rescue role. The leaders excluded a forced restructuring of Greek debt, sticking with the tactic of enticing bondholders to accept losses to help restore the country’s finances.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-23/eu-sees-progress-on-banks-consensus-on-avoiding-bigger-ecb-role-in-crisis.html
Lost in the shadows: Beaufort County’s hidden inventory of homes
By GRANT MARTIN
Published Saturday, October 22, 2011
From the other side of the street, in the shade of overhanging oaks, it’s hard to see anything unusual about the home on Bluffton’s Grande Oaks Drive.
But after walking up the driveway to the red front door, it becomes clear that it’s empty: Old newspapers wrapped in plastic are strewn about and thorny, waist-high weeds sprout near the front steps.
Yet unlike most other empty houses, there’s no “For Sale” sign.
According to information from the Multiple Listing Source, a real estate resource, the property entered foreclosure in September but has not yet been placed on the market.
The home has been abandoned for more than a year, according to a neighbor.
More than 3,831 homes and condos are for sale in Beaufort County, but there’s also a “shadow inventory” that includes homes like the one on Grande Oaks Drive — homes in proprietary limbo, empty but not yet on the market.
Such homes are part of an impending wave of foreclosures and vacancies that could keep real estate values depressed for years to come, according to several Beaufort County agents.
THE SCOPE
Their forecastcomes on the heels of a positive quarterly report, issued Monday by S.C. Realtors, indicating relatively strong home sales in the Hilton Head area through the first nine months of 2011.
Shadow inventory can be broken into three categories:
- Properties repossessed by lenders but not up for sale.
- Properties caught in foreclosure.
- Properties for which loan payments are in deep arrears but not yet in foreclosure.
According to 2010 Census data, there are about 93,000 housing units in Beaufort County. Of those, 1,662 are in foreclosure, according to real estate research firm RealtyTrac.
Those numbers indicate that about one in every 56 homes in the county are at some point in the foreclosure process, a rate considerably higher than the state average of one in 98. Nationwide, about one in 88 homes face foreclosure.
The numbers don’t take into account prospective sellers that pulled their property off the market within the past few years, after failing to attract an acceptable offer.
In Beaufort County, many of these homeowners are elderly, according to local agents and an attorney handling foreclosure cases. Their homes, destined to re-enter the market once property values rebound, are also part of the local shadow inventory.
“It’s hard to imagine the number of people in their 60s that liquidated their retirement savings to pay for their mortgages, still holding out hope,” said Dan Prud’homme, a broker at Carolina Realty Group on Hilton Head Island. “It’s just tremendously scary.”
…
Posted on Sun, Oct. 16, 2011 07:07 AM
Millions of homes lurk on bank inventories, casting doubts of rebound
By TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA
McClatchy Newspapers
Officially, there are 3.5 million homes for sale nationwide. But there are millions more lurking in the shadows - hidden neatly away on banks’ balance sheets, stalled in foreclosure court proceedings or simply occupied by nonpaying owners as lenders wait months or years before taking action.
The housing market’s ballooning shadow inventory - buoyed by a yearlong foreclosure slowdown - stands as the most menacing obstacle to the recovery of the residential real estate market.
Clustered mostly in hard-hit cities and states, there are more than 4.5 million homes either owned by lenders or headed for foreclosure. In Miami, for example, there are about 200,000 shadow homes, dwarfing the 30,000 properties that are listed on the active market. Even as prices in Miami have shown signs of stability this year, an impending wave of foreclosures threatens to keep real estate values deflated.
“A lot of people don’t understand how much inventory is set to come on line in the next 18 to 24 months,” said Jack McCabe, the CEO of McCabe Research & Consulting in Deerfield Beach, Fla. “When you compare what the Realtors show as inventory to what’s out there, you realize we have a long way to go.”
A McClatchy Newspapers analysis of four years of foreclosure data and thousands of property records found record-high levels of shadow inventory in several housing markets across the nation.
Though real estate trade groups routinely leave these shadow properties out of monthly reports, their influence on home values has grown sharply in recent years.
In the supply-and-demand-reliant real estate market, the national supply of homes is officially listed at about 3.5 million, or about nine months’ worth; sales are on track to reach about 5 million this year. But once shadow inventory is added, that supply more than doubles, to at least 7.5 million. A healthy housing market has about a six-month supply of properties, which would be about 2.4 million.
The wave of homes yet to hit the market consists of discounted distressed properties, which tend to drag down neighborhood values. Economists say the housing industry will not normalize and recover until most of the foreclosures work their way through the system - a process that probably will last several more years.
Shadow inventory can be broken into three categories:
-Properties that lenders have repossessed but haven’t put up for sale. These homes are referred to as real estate owned, or REOs.
-Properties that are caught in the clogged foreclosure process.
-Properties that are severely delinquent in loan payments and almost certainly headed for foreclosure, but haven’t yet entered the process.
Calculating the size of the shadow market has proved difficult, and estimates range from 1.6 million to 7 million homes.
…
Shadow inventory drops: ‘Positive sign for housing’
Friday, October 21, 2011
Last updated: Friday October 21, 2011, 1:31 AM
Residential shadow inventory is on the decline, falling in July to 1.6 million units and representing a supply of five months, a new report from CoreLogic shows.
One year ago, nationwide shadow inventory stood at 1.9 million units, marking a six-month supply. Shadow inventory is 22 percent lower than the peak reached in January 2010 of 2 million units — or 8.4 months of supply.
CoreLogic calculates shadow inventory by taking into account the number of distressed properties not yet listed on the multiple listing services that are more than 90 days delinquent, in foreclosure, and real estate owned by lenders.
“The steady improvement in the shadow inventory is a positive development for the housing market,” says Mark Fleming, chief economist for CoreLogic. “However, continued price declines, high levels of negative equity, and a sluggish labor market will keep the shadow supply elevated for an extended period of time.” (HousingWire)
Has anyone else had their eyes opened recently by the oil shale numbers?
From what I understand, we can now supply more than 2/3 of the oil we use within our own borders…if we can get to 100%, this would dramatically improve trade balance, and start to make it less painful to reduce debt.
This all seems quite amazing to me.