October 24, 2011

Bits Bucket for October 24, 2011

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




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261 Comments »

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 04:11:04

Realtors Are Liars®

Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 05:10:14

Occupy NAR

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 05:12:15

Occupy NAR. Prosecute NAR “leadership” under RICO. Crush NAR structure with Sherman Anti-Trust.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 05:19:07

RAL, I agree 100%.
In reality, the DOJ lawsuit did open up information and disclosure on the internet, but didn’t go far enough. It should have cleaned up the REIC from top to bottom.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 05:55:57

No kidding. I don’t mind an organization making a buck for providing a service but the willful dissemination of misleading information while preventing anyone outside their organization to provide that information has got to be stopped.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:20:26

Sounds like the Sherman Antitrust Act should be invoked to stop the NAR.

 
Comment by michael
2011-10-24 07:42:21

lol…the NAR has bribed enough congressmen to support selling american visas to foreigners who buy a house in the u.s. and ya’ll think the NAR will somehow be punished by the same congressmen for trust law violations?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:11:24

“…to support selling american visas to foreigners who buy a house in the u.s. …”

The NAR and America’s Congress want to sell America to foreigners. This is absolutely pathetic.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:14:10

Sounds like the Sherman Antitrust Act should be invoked to stop the NAR.

Recall that the Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1980. And, for more than a decade, it just sat there, snoozing on the books.

Then along came Teddy Roosevelt. Who was no fan of the big trust. And here was this cool law that he could use to bust ‘em up.

TR’s administration gave the Sherman Antitrust Act a real workout. So did his successor, William Howard Taft.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-24 10:30:21

I keep thinking circumstances will drag Obama into being a trust-buster. It’s starting to seem unlikely…

P.S. I find your 1890/1980 typo humorous :-).

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:53:40

P.S. I find your 1890/1980 typo humorous :-).

Well, waddya know, Slim’s got a case of Monday Morning Klutzy Fingers. I meant to say 1890.

Thanks for correcting me, Carl.

 
Comment by WPHR_editor
2011-10-24 13:38:20

No you’re right it was 1980. Bill and Ted went on an “Excellent Trust-Busting Adventure.”

 
 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2011-10-24 05:27:33

Love the NAR.

Don’t hate the NAR, instead give them your love.

Encourage members of the NAR to just hang in there a little bit longer, tell them that the bottom is near, that - in the long run - real estate only goes up, that they should keep up with their dues.

Encourage them to the max, using their own words.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 05:35:25

combo
Great point. Lead them to a BK, in other words. Make them see red on their financial statements with red eyes from lack of sleep.
I love your maniacal thinking. :)

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 05:57:21

Considering how many realtors are involved in local sales that might already be happening. They apparently drink their own kool-aid.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 06:40:49

That’s realtors involved in local sales as sellers.

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Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 07:04:59

CarrieAnn
The stronghold and insider information that realturds have, has made our search much longer. Now we are seeing realturd flips that are priced to move, and the overpriced mediocre stuff sitting longer, with price reductions. It’s about time. Still, homes in So Ca are overpriced, but at getting better.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 07:49:33

I think we’ll be retired before this area fully corrects. My DH and I have housing discussions daily. They mostly circle around getting out of central NY and away from it’s most egregious taxation structures. Like Wall Street, the power structures in this area of the state are well entrenched, protected, and not going anywhere.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 11:24:26

CarrieAnn
Listen to this one. When we put in the offer on that REO deal we rescinded (cost of repairs and noise issues), our Grant Deed had a can’t sell for 6 months clause. Yet a flipper buys at auction, and doesn’t have a leash. That’s just wrong. It’s our final home, but that was a lot of chutzpah.

 
Comment by cactus
2011-10-24 13:41:50

6725 Lafayette Moorpark 93021

heres a local flip I wonder if its a realtor?

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 14:04:16

cactus-
That does look like a realturd flip to my eyes. (saw the pics) Wow, that house is expensive. Moorpark has a great micro climate, but it’s still Moorpark. Priced way too high, imo. What’s the view of? Moorpark? bfd

Our WR home had a bi-directional view of Simi and Thousand Oaks. Amazingly breathtaking at night. Still, we thought after the fact (living there), bfd.

 
Comment by cactus
2011-10-24 15:15:04

VIEW VIEW VIEW! This property will knock your socks off! It has it all, perfect location in a cul de sac, a huge lot, amazing views, 3 car garage, new cabinets, travertine floors, new granite countertops, newly painted and much much more. Show it and it will sell itself!”

it has a view of some really old homes in Moorpark next to a concrete drain near the 118 fwy

apparently it has not sold itself yet

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 20:17:58

cactus
I’m with you on the pretenious view thing.
I’d rather have an afordable one-story home in a sea of the same, with a great yard and no hoa. We just want a great neighborhood. Leave all the a-holes and preteniousness out of our lives.
When summer hits every year, that’s when we miss Moorpark. #1 in climate.

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-24 20:38:08

Excuse me, this is in Moorepark!?

Seriously, Moorepark?

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-24 20:46:35

PEOPLE! IT’S MOORPARK

(Screaming here.)

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2011-10-24 19:01:36

“That’s realtors involved in local sales as sellers.”

Nobody drank more Kool-Aid than Realtors. They fell for the bubble hook, line, and sinker. They still believe in its return.

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Comment by WPHR_editor
2011-10-24 13:39:31

Wow that’s just cruel and unusual punishment for RE agents. I like it….

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 14:13:53

A few years ago there was this one house I must have tried at least 3-4 times to get into. I was told it was for sale by people that answered the phone but no one would ever call me back to show it. This went on for probably 6 mos as the house just sat. When a sold sign finally did get plopped in front the broker in that office has sold it herself and even the realtors were afraid to shed too many of the details. I’m wondering if she sold it to some relative for a song….yes it did sell for a song, after telling out of state owners that nobody else was interested in it.

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Comment by polly
2011-10-24 05:49:47

Speaking of which, Dean Baker is awsome today, including random David Lereah abuse.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/beat-the-press/

Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 07:52:39

Thanks for the link, Polly. Did you see Larry Summer’s article next to the Washington Post article, entitled “How to stabilize the housing market” where he says:

“First, and perhaps most fundamentally, credit standards for those seeking to buy homes are too high and too rigorous. The characteristics of the average successful applicant in 2004 would make that applicant among the most risky today. The pattern should be the opposite, given that the odds of a further 35 percent decline in house prices are much lower than they were at past bubble valuations.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-to-stabilize-the-housing-market/2011/10/23/gIQA7lveAM_story.html?hpid=z1

Comment by Neuromance
2011-10-24 09:09:09

I’m amazed at how “top people” wear blinders when looking at problems.

Yes, loosening credit standards again would spur the housing industry.

BUT - the side effect would be another debt bubble and its inevitable popping. And another recession.

It’s like doctor shouting that “I need to make my patient stop having seizures! Quick give him more heroin!”

“But doctor - this is a detox facility.”

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Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 15:02:19

“loosening credit standards again would spur the housing industry”

Not if that 20% down + 28% income rule for credit risk retention goes into effect. Take away the securitization and banks will hide in a cave.

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-24 21:16:21

neuro, that was so excellent….

 
 
Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 09:11:08

Larry is a very wealthy man. I wonder how many house loans he would make to these applicants using his own money??

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 09:17:53

Good points Steve and Neuro. I just checked when the infamous strawberry picker got his $720,000 loan. It was 2005.

http://hollisterfreelance.com/news/contentview.asp?c=213141

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 09:36:34

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. How did this effing idiot get within 5 miles of a position of national leadership?

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Comment by rms
2011-10-24 11:22:36

Likely his synagogue membership.

 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 14:10:07

rms,

Rude and uncalled for. Also wrong.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 14:59:31

Far be it from me to jump to the defense of Larry Summers’ personality. Those close to him describe him as brusque. And that’s one of the nicer adjectives.

However, Summers is a very, very, very bright fellow. Which counts for a lot in his native habitat, academia. And, believe it or not, it is also highly valued at the upper echelons of government.

 
Comment by rms
2011-10-24 17:11:13

“Key economic staff members confer during a budget session in the White House Roosevelt Room. From left, Gene Sperling, adviser to the Treasury secretary, confers with Office of Management and Budget Director Peter Orszag and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner talks with Lawrence Summers, director of the National Economic Council.”

http://tinyurl.com/3qfbjpc

The White House is completely infested with these financial termites, IMHO. Maybe someone else has another idea of what representative government looks like?

 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-10-24 18:08:02

I’ve tried to avoid dealing with trolls, as not feeding them is generally the most effective route. “Don’t want insect infestations? Don’t leave food lying around.”

But - there are going to be lots of people who try to divert attention from the core issues of the housing bubble and financial crisis. This is going to be the most effective way that the Powers-That-Be divert our attention from the core discussion.

Even with the OWS protestors, there are those with their pet (non-economic) issues who wish to hook their wagon to the OWS protests.

Everything from the pay for public employees, to Democrat and Republican shills trying to pin blame on the other side, to anti-Semitism, to Euro-centrism/skepticism, to animal rights to anti-death penalty advocacy, to immigration, to name-your-agenda.

You wanna focus on those ancillary issues, I’m sure there are other blogs which focus on those things.

The reality of the financial crisis and housing bubble is getting harder to avoid. But if you want to divert attention from the core issues, which the powers-that-be want, they’ll bring up some other hot button topic and focus on that.

In this case, with anti-Semitism, it really seems nonsensical because for every Jew with some financial power, there are multiple Christians, Hindus, Muslims with financial power. Just ignore Paulson, Thain, Dimon, Pandit, Al-Arian, Dodd, Boehner, McConnell and the rest of the rogue’s gallery. This is a diversion that will raise hackles and I know that Jews are sensitive to it, as they well should be, considering their history of persecution.

These diversions are going to pushed hard by the PTB.

My core point is - don’t get head-faked by the PTB with these asinine ancillary issues.

The discussion is moving forward. We’re unpeeling the onion layer by layer. There are many who don’t want this to happen. Don’t get distracted by their BS.

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-10-24 21:36:27

A. J., is that you?
So missing your rational voice in all of this….

 
 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 14:07:39

I don’t have any particular respent for Dr. Summers. The article didn’t change my mind.

This in particular, “Fifth, there were clearly substantial abuses by financial institutions and most everyone in the mortgage industry during the bubble. Just compensation to the victims is a legitimate objective. But allowing negotiation over past actions to be the dominant thrust of policy creates overhangs of uncertainty that impose huge costs on the financial system and inhibit lending,” seems to be largely a call to stop being mean to the bankers. Yawn. Heard it before.

Who is he consulting for these days?

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 18:25:02

“Who is he consulting for these days?”

Harvard’s Economics Department. I guess they didn’t get enough of him when he was president.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 19:15:55

Harvard’s Economics Department. I guess they didn’t get enough of him when he was president.

I think that Dr. Summers still has tenure at Harvard. So, love him or hate him, they’re more or less obligated to take him back.

 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 20:07:33

Harvard is his day job. Who is paying him to give speeches or sit on their Board or tell them what he speculates the Treasury Department will do next or what effect such action will have if any?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 04:41:03
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 05:21:28

The Obama-Biden Plan

3. DIRECT, IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE FOR HOMEOWNERS, NOT A BAILOUT FOR IRRESPONSIBLE MORTGAGE LENDERS
Over the past two years, Americans have lost 20 percent of the value of their homes. In some parts of the country home values have fallen by twice that amount. In combination with a rapidly deteriorating economy, that means more and more families are having a hard time meeting their monthly mortgage payments. At the same time, many states are considering property tax hikes that will burden homeowners still further. And millions of families who have seen the value of their homes fall below the cost of their mortgages need assistance in restructuring their mortgages to stay in their homes.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden’s plan provides direct relief to help America’s homeowners pay their mortgages, stay in their homes, and avoid painful tax increases while protecting taxpayers and not rewarding the bad behavior and bad actors who got us into this mess:

•Instruct the Secretaries of the Treasury and Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to use their existing authority to more aggressively modify the terms of mortgages: Barack Obama was an early champion of the HOPE for Homeowners Act that passed over the summer. In addition, Obama insisted that the financial rescue plan Congress recently passed include authority for the Secretary to work with servicers to modify the terms of mortgages for homeowners who played by the rules. Obama and Biden believe that both of these plans should be implemented aggressively and comprehensively. In addition, Obama and Biden are calling on Treasury and HUD to develop a plan to work with state housing agencies to coordinate broad mortgage restructurings. The Dodd-Frank legislation gives states broader authority to help struggling homeowners, and coordination is essential to ensure that state and national efforts are working in concert to help as many homeowners as possible at the minimum cost to taxpayers.

http://change.gov/agenda/economy_agenda/ - 55k -

Comment by combotechie
2011-10-24 05:30:25

The Obama-Biden Plan = Save The Banks.

Keep hope alive. Let no FB dollar escape.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:45:55

= Save the Homeowner Vote

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 16:27:23

The Obama-Biden Plan

= “Political $olution$”

imagine.that.

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Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 05:35:33

From RAL

Schiff is right again on another market topic.

http://lansner.ocregister.com/2011/10/22/housing-market-will-get-much-worse/137313/

Us: Is real estate pain over yet in O.C. and/or SoCal?

Peter: No, it’s going to get worse. The current market is still being propped up by government-subsidized mortgages, artificially low interest rates, and a backlog in the foreclosure process. Prices will not bottom out until these props are removed and true market forces are allowed to clear the market. In addition, the California economy is going to get a lot worse. More business will leave the state and more workers will lose their jobs. More people will chose to rent, and many that do will have to have roommates. The vast majority of new home construction is currently taking place in the multi-unit building category, which confirms this trend.

Comment by polly
2011-10-24 06:59:49

Interesting, but I wish he could have skipped the people renting = bad for the economy meme. I understand that people who buy ususally go on a spending spree, but (as Dean Baker points out again today) US consumers are still spending above post war averages compared to income.

“Also, consumption continues to be higher than normal relative to disposable income, not lower, as this quote asserts. The saving rate is currently hovering near 5 percent, compared to a post-war pre-bubble average of more than 8 percent.”

Oh,and as I proved last year, renting doesn’t mean you can’t spend money on furniture and stuff like that. You might even have enough savings to get quality stuff that is made in the US and that sort of thing.

Comment by salinasron
2011-10-24 08:09:04

My wife’s dryer went out two weeks ago. I took the 20 yr old one apart to see if it was worth fixing but even though the motor was fine some parts were too worn to justify fixing. Hard to find a new one as there are no more appliance stores as of old. Just a few large stores with a poor selection. Anyway I was forced kicking and screaming to spend money in this economy so I guess I helped increase the Oct. sales.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 08:15:56

Yeah we had to got to Best buy to get our toaster oven…and some DV tape for the camcorder…

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:12:42

“…people renting = bad for the economy…”

Stupid is as stupid sez…

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Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 07:09:02

Which is getting easier due to all our electronic toys are so small today…you could even have a wireless communal office type setup, a couple of printers maybe a nice backdrop to do interviews or video conferencing…

Use one of those gift wrapping rooms in the Mcmansion for this..

More people will chose to rent, and many that do will have to have roommates.

 
Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 08:17:18

“Prices will not bottom out until these props are removed and true market forces are allowed to clear the market”

I really liked this sentence as opposed to the usual “housing recovery.” Housing recovery, as far as I can see, usually refers to anything that would bring back the bubble.

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 08:24:55

Romney says foreclosures should “hit the bottom”

By Kasie Hunt
Associated Press / October 18, 2011

LAS VEGAS—Mitt Romney came to the state with the highest foreclosure rate in the nation and said he wants to allow home foreclosures to “hit the bottom” to help the housing industry recover.

In an interview published Tuesday ahead of presidential debate, Romney told Las Vegas Review Journal’s editorial board that solving the foreclosure crisis would require letting banks proceed against homeowners who have defaulted on their mortgages. New investors could then rent out the homes until markets adjusted.

“As to what to do for the housing industry specifically and are there things that you can do to encourage housing: One is, don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom,” Romney said.

Romney elaborated during the presidential debate Tuesday night. “The idea of the federal government running around and saying, `We’re going to give you some money for trading in your old car…or we’re going to keep banks from foreclosing if you can’t make your payments,” Romney said, “The right course is to let markets work.”

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2011/10/18/romney_says_foreclosures_should_hit_the_bottom/

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 09:05:27

LOL- As if the banks are dying to force the foreclosures onto the market. Makes a good right-wing bogeyman though.

“would require letting banks proceed against homeowners who have defaulted on their mortgages. ”

What’s stopping them?

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 09:44:32

Their messed up paperwork, and not wanting to show the loss on the accounting. You can make your own educated guess as to which one is more of a factor.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 14:11:54

If their paperwork is so screwed up that they still haven’t fixed it, perhaps its beyond fixing.

Otherwise, I suspect it’s because they don’t want to realize the losses yet.

Either way, there’s nothing standing in the way of the banks foreclosing as far as the government is concerned, unless he is suggesting that the government somehow force the courts to ignore a couple centuries of RE law.

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 09:16:25

“I really liked this sentence as opposed to the usual “housing recovery.”

Me too. That one sentence is the reason I posted the link

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Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 08:35:21

use their existing authority to more aggressively modify the terms of mortgages:

Do they have any authority to aggressively modify the terms of rental leases? ESPECIALLY in complexes which accept government cheese like Section 8 and/or military? I have said many times that I believe everyone should have the “basics.” But I do NOT think that I should subsidize others to collect better cheese than the cheese I work for.

Where’s MY handout?

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 10:00:35

We’re unfortunately stuck in a situation that there aren’t any answers we’ll like.

The refis and writedowns are going to be written up at the highest value than the FBer can stretch to cover the payments. A collapse in home prices will only benefit renters and/or future homebuyers. Our numbers and money pale in comparison to the number of people who will be totally screwed if prices collapse. (Banks, the GSEs, homeowners/mortgage holders in general, especially those who have purchased after 2000, or thereabouts…..the list goes on and on).

Many on this blog predict that the free market (whatever that is) will prevail. I’m not so sure, especially in any kind of time span that will benefit me.

Like owning a Mercedes Benz, or Ferrari, or getting hooked up with a super hot female, homeownership is just another thing I’ve added to my list of “Things that aren’t going to happen”.

It’s best just to put that stuff completely out of your mind, and move on to the stuff you have some influence over, rather than get pizzed and frustrated.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-24 10:06:42

Like owning a Mercedes Benz, or Ferrari, or getting hooked up with a super hot female, homeownership is just another thing I’ve added to my list of “Things that aren’t going to happen”.

You can make any of those things happen, at least for a short time, if you’re stupid. Which brings us to the real issue…you not wanting to pay the “stupid” tax.

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Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 13:26:43

“getting hooked up with a super hot female”

Boon: “Now, she should be good-looking, but we’re willing to trade looks for a certain… morally casual attitude.”

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 15:58:13

-Fixr “Hot” = pretty much any 35-55 year old female with a brain and a pulse. :)

You would be surprised how few and far between they are around here. But then, I don’t get out much.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 16:30:44

Trust me GS outside of any major city most are just like that

I dj’s quite a few Parents without Partners, singles dances, corporate mixers, at places like the sheraton after work or at Unitarian churches, and the amount plain un-hot “older” women were staggering.

It was unsettling at first when the saturday night dances started at 8pm and ended at 1 am and by 11:00 probably 2/3 were going home alone…The organizers said it not my fault and for a few years they kept hiring me at least once a month I also lived less then a mile away.

 
Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 18:31:02

“Unitarian churches, and the amount plain un-hot “older” women were staggering.”

I don’t think the Unitarian church is known for hot women.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 05:45:32

Socialists are funny all over the world…

——————-

Over-60 bedroom blockers ’should be taxed out of their homes’ to encourage them to leave …
Daily Mail | 20th October 2011 | Steve Doughty

25 million empty bedrooms across the country at a time when many are struggling…

Older people should be taxed out of their family homes to free up space for younger generations, says a report backed by Labour.

It argues that ‘empty nesters’ in their 60s are taking up too much room and should be ‘encouraged’ by a new ‘land tax’ to downsize to smaller homes.

The call comes from the Intergenerational Foundation, a left-leaning think-tank that aims to ‘promote fairness between generations’.

The Intergenerational Foundation says there are 25million unused bedrooms in the country and eight million ‘under-occupied’ homes. More than half of people aged over 65 live in homes with two or more spare bedrooms that could be used by young families, it adds.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 06:00:56

“Bedroom blockers”

No more going home to Grandma’s for the holidays!

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 06:39:26

And how bout that vacation home by the coast, lake or mountains? I’ve had older people (80ish in age) in my meetings that claim they own 5 homes and joke about trying to figure out which one would be best to declare as their primary residence.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 06:55:50

Water access blockers.

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2011-10-24 09:23:05

CarrieAnn, Are you in New England?

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Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 09:21:17

As of 2011, the average annual levy on a property in England was £1,196.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 09:45:04

That’s way below the average in “capitalist” USA

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Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 11:34:42

And you get a discount if you are single.

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 06:27:03

Socialists are funny all over the world…

I’ll take “funny Socialists” over scary war mongering Facist “capitalists” any day.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 06:42:39

Too ironic. The presence of socialists is a myth. There are facists in sheep’s clothing aplenty.

Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 07:01:02

FYI

Nazi is slang for “National Sozialistische Deutsch Arbeiter-Partei.”

It means National Socialist German Worker’s Party.

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Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 07:12:13

Yes, we all know that was the official name. But we also know that they were socialists in name only. Companies like Bayer, Thyssen, Daimler, etc. prospered during the Nazi years beafore the war.

And I still fear corporatists far more than socialists.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 07:26:19

LOL, neither group thinks your stuff is yours. You just want to be an aquisitor with a cute hat.

The three big lies:

1. I don’t want your stuff and I won’t take it.
2. I want your stuff but I would never take it.
3. I am so sorry I took your stuff, it will never happen again.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:14:21

“…National Socialist German Worker’s Party…”

Like the RNC, the NAZIs were propaganda experts.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 08:59:35

Like the RNC, the NAZIs were propaganda experts.

VA health-care = “Evil”,…like being slapped by a 100# $crotum ;-)

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-10-24 07:28:20

Nice straw man propaganda.
There are many very plesent socialist countries that can bost better healthcare outcomes and happier populations.
2banana pulls a quote from an obscure think tank and now all socialists are facists that want to kill granny.

It is good to note that in the end the true evil are the facists who co opt nationality, religion and use sheeps clothing to hide their true identity.

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Comment by polly
2011-10-24 07:11:15

Why do spend time thinking about a liberal “think tank” in the UK with a completely absurd idea. If you usa a “land tax” to get oldsters out their houses, then it had better not be too large or the “young families” who need the extra bedrooms won’t be able to afford to pay it either. Seriously, that sort of proposal doesn’t rise to the level of “think tank.”

Besides, we already have that sort of thing going in the US. When senior communities have those highly restrictive covenants over not having children in residence for more than 5 days at time or something like that, it is often part of a package they have negotiatied with the local government to pay lower property taxes/school assessment since they won’t be increasing the school aged population. It is a discount for getting out of your 3 or 4 bedroom house in a family neighborhood. Pretty much the same thing.

Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 07:24:31

People used to laugh that banks would never lend money to people that had no jobs, no down payment and could not afford or take care of a house.

Then came far left ideas like the CRA and Janet ““no loan is exempt, no bank is immune. For those (bankers) who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement” Reno…

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:15:58

It’s scary when I agree with your posts…

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Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 09:42:31

LOL! +1 (for 2banana)

 
 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 08:20:28

Banks didn’t lend money to people with no jobs, no downpayment, etc. Banks acted as conduits for bondholders who loaned mortgage money to people with no jobs, etc. The fact that they then got caught with a few of the mortgages still on their books and no way to securitize them was happenstance. The fact that they are now the servicers (public face of the actual lenders) of those loans has nothing to do with being an actual lender. The fact that they happened to buy a few of the bonds that were made by those loans is trivial - they were not the primary purchasers and besides, the Fed has already taken most of them off their hands.

CRA says that you can’t decide an entire neighborhood is off the lending list because minorities live there and that means it is a bad risk. By the time securitization was in full swing, nobody cared about the risk of the loans so the CRA was essentially meaningless. You don’t redline neighborhoods when you don’t care what the house is worth because the loan is going to be off your books in 60 days anyway. Someone else may have a link, but my understanding is that the loans that were made under the CRA failed much less often than other loans (the ones made by non-bank originators who are not subject to CRA) because they were actually underwritten.

And if you think redlining didn’t happen, it did. I heard the story directly from the person it happened to. Fortunately, she was a law professor and didn’t take that cr-p sitting down, but while she was doing the loan papers by mail and over the phone there were no problems. When she checked her minority status on the last set of papers, all of a sudden they decided the property was in a risky neighborhood, because a black person (her) was buying a house there.

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Comment by Neuromance
2011-10-24 09:16:40

By the time securitization was in full swing, nobody cared about the risk of the loans so the CRA was essentially meaningless. You don’t redline neighborhoods when you don’t care what the house is worth because the loan is going to be off your books in 60 days anyway.

The evidence of this was that there was no “neighborhood premium.”

Near my location are two communities (among others). Prices in the desirable (low crime, good schools) were similar to ones in the undesirable (high crime, bad schools) community at the height of the bubble. The phenomenon intrigued me, till I realized the loans were merely fantasy numbers written on pieces of paper. Monopoly money printed by loan originators and traded in the markets as though they were real assets.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 09:46:32

“By the time securitization was in full swing, nobody cared about the risk of the loans so the CRA was essentially meaningless. “

A line that bears repeating, in boldface.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 10:08:27

Exactly. When they found out a way to make money off of it (thru securitization), the banksters were all in. Nobody held a gun to their head, Republican revisionist history to the contrary.

It still amazes me the number of people who still believe the meltdown was caused by the CRA….ONLY.

Anyone remember the “Compton Parade of Homes”?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 19:22:24

“…the Fed has already taken most of them off their hands.”

Why can’t the Fed offer to take underwater homes off the hands of those who can no longer afford their monthly payment, or make zero percent interest rate loans to households which can no longer service their debt,
due to job loss?

Is being too big to fail a necessary qualification for discriminatory bailouts?

 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 08:03:32

Why do spend time thinking about a liberal “think tank” in the UK with a completely absurd idea

Because it was linked from Drudge, as are half the articles posted on HBB by certain posters. On Drudge = newsworthy. Anything not on Drudge = liberal media. So simple a 4 year old could understand it…

Comment by polly
2011-10-24 16:03:52

Is that what he is doing? Seems sort of pathetic.

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Comment by Robin
2011-10-24 21:12:16

Seriously increases our interest in joining a “senior community”.
As an intentionally-childless couple, we have paid taxes for the education of local children for almost 30 years. Without complaint.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-10-24 12:01:50

Soooo, how does one reconcile this with the aspirational lifestyles of contemporary hyper-consumers?

Before bothering with even debating such programs must first come the acknowledgement that so many of them are wholly incompatible with “grow or die” economics as practiced now across the globe.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 05:47:16

For ‘Shock and Awe’ to work, this program will have to be much bigger (e.g. refis for everyone w/ F&F loans) than this pre-announcement announcement suggests.

Bloomberg
U.S. Refinance Fix Viewed as Unlikely to ‘Shock and Awe’ Economy
October 24, 2011, 12:23 AM EDT
By Lorraine Woellert

Oct. 24 (Bloomberg) — U.S. President Barack Obama, who tours foreclosure-ravaged Nevada and California this week, may face homeowners demanding bolder action as regulators prepare to release details of new housing proposals as early as this week.

Lawmakers and analysts briefed on plans by the independent Federal Housing Finance Agency estimate they will help less than 1 million borrowers — and perhaps as few as 600,000 — of the 11 million whose mortgages are higher than the value of their homes.

Obama introduced HARP in 2009 in a bid to prevent defaults among borrowers who have little or no equity in their homes and thus can’t qualify for refinancing. The goal was to stimulate consumer spending by allowing those homeowners to lower their interest rates and reduce their monthly mortgage payments.

Fewer than 895,000 borrowers have been helped by the program, far short of the nearly 5 million originally targeted. Most of those who got help had equity in their property.

While details of the program’s improvements remain under wraps, DeMarco told lawmakers this month that he was considering expanding HARP to borrowers who are more than 25 percent underwater.

Raising the 125 percent loan-to-value ratio may have limited impact, because fewer than 20 percent of HARP borrowers have loans worth between 105 percent and 125 percent of their property values, according to FHFA data. The rest have equity or are only slightly underwater, according to the FHFA data.

Investors, nonetheless, are braced for change. Returns on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage-backed securities have trailed those on Treasuries by about 2 percentage points since the end of June, according to Barclays Capital index data.

Homeowners in Nevada, meanwhile, are hoping for relief, said Lon DeWeese, chief financial officer of the state’s housing division.

“Bold action by the president would be warmly received,” DeWeese said in a telephone interview.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:19:39

Isn’t the HARP what the tapped-out homeowner will be playing after he/she dies from the stress of dealing with banks and goes to heaven?

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-10-24 13:43:21

This will make it easier for people who have already decided to hold onto their underwater properties (since they are current on their loans).

So, it helps a few people, and acts as stimulous. Other than that select group (who would, more often than not, held on anyway), this won’t do much to slow foreclosures in any significant way.

If they wanted to slow foreclosures, they should institute the debt writedown program (you need to stay current for 3 years, and their write off your debt to 90% of value after that 3 years is up).

Comment by Robin
2011-10-24 21:19:35

Good program!

 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 05:49:32

More suburban, middle class slide into poverty
Chicago Sun-Times | Updated: October 24, 2011 6:23AM | Francine Knowles

Fourteen months ago, Aurora resident Prentiss Bailey was going about happily living his life as usual.

He was employed at a printing company where he’d worked for 10 years—a job that paid $17 an hour and that with the consistent overtime and $4,000 and $5,000 annual Christmas bonuses he got, enabled him to take care of his family and enjoy what he considered a middle income life.

Today, he and his 10-year–old daughter live in a homeless shelter.

So does 33-year-old Robert Estes, also of Aurora.

“I had a job; we had what we needed,” said Bailey, as he sat inside the Hesed House shelter in Aurora where he now resides.“I was able to pay my rent. We were middle class.”

That was before he was laid off 13 months ago.

“Now there’s a lack of opportunity, a lack of jobs,” he said. “I didn’t think it would be this hard finding another job.”

Bailey, who for the first time in his life is receiving public aid, has lived at the shelter for about five months. Initially, he and his daughter slept on mattresses in a gymnasium-like room with others. Now the two share a small room in the transitional housing section of the shelter furnished with bunk beds.

“It was hard at first, but I’m glad I took that step,” he said, noting he’s receiving guidance on getting back on his feet from a case worker at Hesed House. He plans to enroll in truck driver training program to improve his prospects of landing work.

Estes, who’s been at the shelter for about six weeks, says after losing his $12.50-an-hour job at a local grocery store where he’d worked for two years, he hasn’t yet been able to find another one.

The economy is “pretty horrible,” he said. “You have people here of all ages that are struggling. Some people tell me how they used to make $20 bucks an hour, $25 bucks an hour. Now they’re here. Nobody wants to hire them.

“I always had my own place, my own car, bought my own food,” he said. “I was making it paycheck to paycheck. Then this happened, and it’s like a slap in the face. I’ve been working and paying taxes my whole life, and now all of a sudden I can barely get into the door for an interview. I’m a strong guy. I can work. I know I don’t belong here.”

“When I first started here in ’08, if we had 80 families, 90 families come in one distribution day, that was a big day,” said Marilyn Weisner, executive director of the pantry. “Now we have routinely 260, 280 families come,” said Marilyn Weisner, executive director of the pantry.

“One of the things that we’ve noticed is the family sizes have increased. We’re wondering if people aren’t moving in together because they’re struggling to survive.”

Census data suggests that is occurring. The bureau recently noted the poverty rate among young adults ages 25 to 34 living with their parents nationally was 8.4 percent, but that rate would be 45.3 percent if the poverty level was determined by their own income.

Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Chicago Chief Executive Officer Monsignor Michael Boland said among trends he has observed among the clients the group assists are “a lot more people coming today who have never come before to Catholic Charities or to a social service agency, people that are unemployed, underemployed. I think the recession has really hit a lot of people who were probably doing okay, but now are put below the poverty line. People are coming to us for emergency assistance, food, shelter, clothes. The numbers are extraordinary.”

At the Christian Outreach of Lutherans Food Pantry in Waukegan and Ingleside in Lake County, pantry operations manager Gayle Olson said she’s seeing more “people that don’t know where to go, how to get help, people that had been employed all their lives and now they can’t find a job and they don’t know how to get the resources they need like food stamps and medical coverage for their children, or help with the mortgage, rent or utilities.”

The poverty rate, stood at 21.2 percent in Chicago 2006, the year before the recession began, but climbed to 22.5 percent last year. By comparison, in the suburbs, the rate rose from 7.3 percent to 9.3 percent.

Boland noted Catholic Charities has seen requests for food in some Chicago suburbs rise anywhere from 110 to 150 percent, compared to about 25 percent in Chicago.

The U.S. Census Bureau sets the poverty level as:

†One individual: $11,344

†Two adults: $14,602

†Two adults and one child: $17,552

†Two adults and two children: $22,113

Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 07:13:03

These Lucky Duckies have it too easy. They should step up and pay their fair share by paying a 9% sales tax and 9% VAT to make up for the taxes they’re not paying on the incomes they don’t have.

Comment by jim
2011-10-24 07:38:23

If they would just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and start a consulting company or something they would be fine.

 
Comment by Robin
2011-10-24 21:24:09

So it’s Cain, even if they’re not Able??

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 07:16:34

Trickled down and out.

Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 13:37:45

“Trickled down and out.”

Tinkled on.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 05:51:30

Since when has driving up share prices been part of the Fed’s mandate?

U.S. NEWS
OCTOBER 21, 2011

Fed Is Poised for More Easing
By JON HILSENRATH

Federal Reserve officials are starting to build a case for a new program of buying mortgage-backed securities to boost the ailing economy, though they appear unlikely to move swiftly.

The idea would be to target any new efforts by the central bank at the parts of the economy that are most severely impeding a recovery—the housing and mortgage markets—by working to push down mortgage rates.

Lower mortgage rates, in turn, could encourage more home buying and mortgage-refinancing, and help the economy by freeing up cash for consumers to spend on other goods and services. Mortgage rates are already very low, but some Fed officials believe they might be pushed lower. Moreover, Fed officials believe their past purchase programs helped to lift stock markets, by driving investors from low-risk investments toward riskier investments.

The Fed discussions occur amid broader efforts in the government to find ways to revive housing markets and stir refinancing.

“I believe we should move back up toward the top of the list of options the large-scale purchase of additional mortgage-backed securities,” Federal Reserve governor Dan Tarullo said in a speech Thursday at Columbia University.

A new Fed mortgage-bond-buying program isn’t a certainty. If inflation doesn’t recede as many officials expect, or if the economy picks up with surprising vigor on its own, such a program might not win broad support inside the Fed.

The most recent economic data have looked a touch stronger. In a report Thursday, for instance, the Labor Department said the number of people filing claims for unemployment insurance edged down last week.

Comment by Neuromance
2011-10-24 09:19:53

The Founders knew about human nature. How leaders would want to draw more powers unto themselves. Hence the system of checks and balances. And a reliance on markets to allocate resources.

However, once the Fed strayed into picking winners and losers, starting with Long Term Capital Management, back in 1998, they’ve been given carte blanche by the feckless legislative bodies to increasingly centrally plan the economy by picking winners and losers.

We are slowly devolving into banana-republicism. With the best of intentions of course.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 05:52:46

We are starting to see a lot of “tribe on tribe” violence take hold in Libya

Soon to be ruled by another dictator. This time a hard line islamic radical.

Another Iran starting to emerge…?

—————————–

Interim ruler unveils more radical plans for Islamic law
The Telgraph | 23 Oct 11 | Richard Spencer

Libya’s interim leader outlined more radical plans to introduce Islamic law than expected as he declared the official liberation of the country.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, the chairman of the National Transitional Council and de fact president, had already declared that Libyan laws in future would have Sharia, the Islamic code, as its “basic source”.

But that formulation can be interpreted in many ways - it was also the basis of Egypt’s largely secular constitution under President Hosni Mubarak, and remains so after his fall. Mr Abdul-Jalil went further, specifically lifting immediately, by decree, one law from Col. Gaddafi’s era that he said was in conflict with Sharia - that banning polygamy. In a blow to those who hoped to see Libya’s economy integrate further into the western world, he announced that in future bank regulations would ban the charging of interest, in line with Sharia. ”

Interest creates disease and hatred among people,” he said. Gulf states like the United Arab Emirates, and other Muslim countries, have pioneered the development of Sharia-compliant banks which charge fees rather than interest for loans but they normally run alongside western-style banks.

Comment by CrackerBob
2011-10-24 06:26:16

So yes, let’s bankrupt the USA by trying to “democratize” every muslim and/or African nation in the world. It is not going to work in Iraq and it will not work in Afganistan. Or Libya. Or ____________ fill-in-the-blank third-world nation.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 09:22:57

There’s a conversation you’ll never hear out loud at a coffee shop in Cheney’s hometown. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-10-24 06:39:05

That was entirely predictable. In those countries you either have a strong man (Ghadaffi, Mubarak, Sadam) or a theocracy. The strong man tends to be more stable and easier to deal with than a bunch of religious freaks.
Personally I think we should stay out. Long term these nations always generate more headaches and expenses than benefit/oil.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 07:15:13

My thoughts as well. Those people are incapable of self government (not that we are all that good at it).

Comment by sfrenter
2011-10-24 11:50:20

Maybe so, but I do wonder what “self government” would have looked like if the borders were created as a result of and after colonialism had never been drawn.

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Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 13:39:00

Tribalism?

 
 
 
Comment by yensoy
2011-10-24 09:37:05

Bingo Mike! You got it.

Not only that, but these countries are highly divided internally on tribal/denominational/ethnic lines. The strong men in power actually do a pretty decent job of keeping these opposing forces in check, also do a good job of protecting minorities and women (for what it is worth) compared with any theocracy that is bound to follow their demise.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 10:35:46

Unless and until we rid ourselves of Neuvo-Banana Republicanism, we have zero credibility when it comes to telling other people how to run their affairs.

Why does Iran want to become a nuclear power? Because the USA doesn’t screw around bombing countries that have nukes. They even up the playing field.

Maybe we should hand out a few nukes to everybody, to make us think twice before we start smart-bombing people for no good reason.

Howz this for a Iranian policy?

Let them have their nukes and Sharia law. At the same time, announce that any Iranians age 18-40 who dont want to live under Sharia Law will be considered “political refugees” and will be allowed into the US. Priority given to those with engineering degrees.

Yeah, we’re running the risk of “importing terrorism”. As if real terrorists would find it all that difficult to get into the country another way. (BTW, Why in the hell are we bringing crazy-azz, illiterate Somalis into the US?).

We’d also be working a plan that will drain Iran of all it’s “best and brightest”.

As a slightly fractured “Stars Wars” saying suggests:
“Freedom from religious tyranny is one of the most powerful forces in the universe…….I suggest we use it”

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Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 11:03:53

So your plan (based on stars wars) is to give islamic countries that support terrorism and have already threaten to “wipe out” their neighbors - nukes

AND

Import millions upon millions of muslims into America (and with that Shari law and tribal hatred).

Ummmm - no.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 13:42:43

“Why does Iran want to become a nuclear power?”

So that it can sell the oil/gas that it’s using for generating electricity? At least the non-weapons grade nukes.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 16:05:17

No.

Just like the USA, the Iranian government doesn’t speak for all it’s people. Especially their young people. They aren’t big fans of Sharia law.

Knowing this would require that you get your news from someplace other than Faux News and Rush Limbaugh.

Sharia Muslims and Christian Conservative = po-tae-to/po-tot-o

Different strains of the same crap.

 
 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 07:18:57

I’ll keep saying this the power is in the mosques, so we killed another dictator and leave the real power brokers alone, because we have no guts to fight a religious jihad.

 
Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 09:26:18

No interest????

Wait, maybe he is on to something…

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 05:55:15

It is going to get alot harder for FB who walk away…

————————–

Credit scores poised to get more personal
Waterbury Republican-American | October 23, 2011 | Mary Ellen Podmolik

Many consumers applying for a mortgage will start sharing more personal information with lenders next year, like it or not.

FICO scores, the industry standard for determining credit risk in mortgages backed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration, largely have been based on a person’s credit history. But in an attempt to develop a more well-rounded picture of a person’s finances, tools are being developed to help the lending industry dig deeper.

Fair Isaac Corp., or FICO, the company behind the widely used scoring formula, and data provider CoreLogic recently announced a collaboration that will result in a separate score that will be available to mortgage lenders. It will incorporate information that will include payday loans, evictions and child support payments. In the future, information on the status of utility, rent and cellphone payments may also be included.

Separately, in September the big three credit reporting agencies — Experian, Equifax and TransUnion — began providing estimates of consumer income as a credit report option. And earlier this year, Experian began including data on on-time rental payments in its reports.

Still, there is thought among researchers that consumer transparency, if it demonstrates both good and bad behavior, has its place.

“You’re trying to convince someone to loan you an awful lot of money at a low interest rate,” said Michael Turner, president of the Policy and Economic Research Council. “Only you know whether you’re going to pay it back. There is a harmony in this data exchange.”

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 06:22:52

The Bankster’s and Corporate America’s Facist vise like grip around our collective necks continues to tighten. But hey, let’s make fun of the OWS people and call them smelly hippies or lazy trust fund babies.

Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 07:25:42

They truly are scum. The squad recently pulled its own credit report to verify bureau reporting the closure of TARP bank CC accounts and for $9.95 purchased one bureau’s credit score.

Factors adversely affecting your score:
lack of mortgage loan record in file
Having a paid-in-full auto loan (48 months paid off in 36), never late CC accounts, never late student loan, isn’t enough for these pigmen. The squad should pay higher auto insurance rates because it refuses to embrace the mortgage albatross slavery? F* these pigs…

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 07:30:22

Maybe they’re trying to sift out the McMansion owning BMW driving food stamps recipient. I saw one of those families interviewed several years back on one of the network channels and thought I was going to hurl. They had no problems taking handouts fromt their church and the state while doing nothing to help themselves. I’m not saying the majority of food stamps recipients are in this boat. But it struck me that the host of the special on tough times in America never did ask the families why they didn’t downsize their vehicle choice or sell some of their Coach bags online to make the mortgage. This attitude among the populace will not end well.

I don’t want people to starve. I don’t want people to sleep on the street but above that they should be responsible for keeping up their own lifestyles. If they are unemployed and there are no savings, things should start going on the auction block.

Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 07:53:33

You are probably one of those evil right wingers who also want them to give up the cigarettes, the iphones and to stop buying all the junk/processed foods… :-)

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Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 07:54:13

I have an acquaintance that got a new car from her mom (free & clear), husband works in the underground (but legal) economy, she works, and she is at the church’s food bank getting free Trader Joe’s food to stuff her obese body. They bought their home 22+ yrs ago. Oh and she teaches sunday school. Maybe she should learn what good character is. She’s a walking example of an opportunist, and not in a good sense.
Her religious shield, is just that.

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Comment by Montana
2011-10-24 13:50:56

oh yeah, just wait until J6P realizes what a good deal free food is. They’ll get past the initial awkwardness soon enough.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 14:28:58

It’s amazing how necessity is the mother of invention when freebies are taken away.

Tried it w/my kids. Took away his 24/7 (after homework) Xbox/computer access. All of a sudden I hear “Hey this game is too boring. It’s taking up all my minutes and making me think maybe I should be doing something else.”

Ya mean maybe doing something productive?

Out of the mouths of babes!

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 08:45:44

I’m not sure this is a vice grip … this doesn’t seem very different from what banks used to ask for when they decided whether to give out a mortgage. They just want to know total money in, total money out. Why wouldn’t child support or 18 years of on-time rent payments (me) count toward that? It certainly to speaks ability-to-pay far better than months of minimum payments on a Target card.

Now, if they sell that data, and somebody hikes car insurance or denies a job, IMO throw the book at them.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 09:15:36

It’s mostly because now your credit score is being used beyond credit granting issues: insurance, background checks for jobs, etc.

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Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 09:46:52

Credit score = worker bee hamster wheel speedometer. J6P howmuchamonth rewarded with high FICO for keeping interest payments flowing to the pigmen. Prudent HBBer FICO dinged for paying cash, no CC balances, no mortgage albatross.

America isn’t a country, it’s a game

 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 13:32:21

That has been going on for decades, as far as I know. I knew a woman who worked in commercial lending or maybe it was an insurance company when I was in law school. She said she knew what brand of mattress people owned or could if she wanted to. And that sort if information was used as part of the profile. Back when personal credit was tighter, buying higher end brands for large purchases was indicative of having wealth.

The volume of data is larger these days, but I don’t know that it is valid to draw significant conclusions from most of it. The First Lady of the United States buys stuff at Target and with a credit card, a penniless student could buy $700 shoes at one of the fancy stores in my general neighborhood. Neither shopping trip means much of anything when it comes to whether that person is a good insurance risk.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:23:04

Yesterday, I went by the Tucson version of the Occupy movement. Met a lady who lives near the park where the Occupiers are camping, and guess what. She said they the Occupiers were quieter and had better manners than her neighbors.

I also found them to be a very quiet and polite group. Their campground was spotless except for some debris outside of one tent, and even that would be taken care of by the volunteer cleanup committee.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:55:23

She said they the Occupiers were quieter and had better manners than her neighbors.

There I go with my Monday Morning Klutzy Fingers again. I meant to say “that the Occupiers…”

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Comment by Robin
2011-10-24 21:36:32

Hey Slim,

I read in today’s LA Times that PMI is settling claims in Arizona for 50 cents on the dollar rather than being dissolved.

ISTR their stock, which once traded at $50, now trades at $1. I’d send the link, but already nuked the online version after reading the wonderful physical version.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 16:25:42

I also found them to be a very quiet and polite group.

But eyes thoughts anger was anger, how does this square with the tea-party’$ “TrueAnger™” / “TrueReduceTheDeficitNow!!!!™” advocate$?

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 05:56:33

Posted on Mon, Oct. 24, 2011
In struggling Nevada, losing faith with both parties
By Thomas Fitzgerald
Inquirer Politics Writer

NORTH LAS VEGAS, Nev. - The death of another family’s American dream shows in subtle ways: a front yard shaggier than the neighbors’; windblown leaves piled against a padlocked door; a foreclosure notice pasted to the garage.

“These people over here just walked away,” said Dave Johnson, gesturing toward the empty stucco-and-tile home next to his on Diazo Street.

Johnson and his wife bought their place for $249,000 41/2 years ago, when he had steady work as a truck driver. Now he has an agreement to sell the house - for $65,000.

“We’re going to go to Colorado and get a little place out in the country, nothing big, maybe five acres,” said Johnson, 38, who is also a tattoo artist and wants to open his own shop.

His struggles are common in the Rancho Buena Vista development and throughout this suburb that pushes up against the desert, where as many as 80 percent of homeowners have slipped “underwater,” owing more on their mortgages than their houses are worth.

Beyond lives upended, the bursting of Nevada’s real estate bubble has created political turbulence that will help shape the 2012 presidential race. A battleground in recent elections, the state has the highest number of home foreclosures in the nation and also the highest unemployment rate, at 13.4 percent.

President Obama is scheduled to visit Las Vegas on Monday to promote his jobs bill. But he may have already lost Johnson’s vote.

“I don’t know if I’m even voting again,” said Johnson, a registered Democrat who voted for Obama last time. “I put my voice out there, but it didn’t do any good.”

As for the Republican presidential candidates who debated Tuesday down on the Las Vegas Strip at the Venetian resort, with its indoor network of canals plied by gondoliers meandering past high-end boutiques, Johnson considers them “irrelevant.”

Obama carried Nevada, New Mexico, and Colorado in 2008, a pivotal cluster of 19 electoral votes nearly equal in weight to Ohio or Pennsylvania.

Comment by CrackerBob
2011-10-24 06:36:30

“We’re going to go to Colorado and get a little place out in the country, nothing big, maybe five acres,” said Johnson, 38, who is also a tattoo artist and wants to open his own shop.

So that is where America is, another idiot who believes that being a filthy tatoo artist is a career. That’s right, tatoo “artists”, chopper builders, casino employees, gold & silver exchanges, pawn shops, Harley exhaust specialist, all noble professions. The more people making these thoughtful career choices, the further the US moves from being the leading nation to a loser nation.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 07:08:16

The sad thing is that there is more stability to be found running a tattoo parlor than working in a cubicle farm.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 07:24:58

Yeah most of the women i know do NOT have a tramp stamp….maybe some good intelligent marketing will change that.

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Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 07:34:22

There is a tattoo parlor in our town and it seems to be pretty busy most of the time. For some reason the young pups seem to think that having a tat is uber-cool.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 08:02:12

In Colorado
In our day, long hair on guys, bell bottom jeans, tie dye clothing, and you were a rebel, not marked for life. I just don’t get the tattoo thing. Especially on ladies. It’s trashy and ugly, along with the piercings.
All the weird stuff we did was easily reversible.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 09:11:30

Piercings are reversible.

It sounds like the Johnsons are doing their own version of Oil City plan. But how is this guy sliding out from under $200K or debt? Where is the money to buy 5 acres in Colorado? And the money to open his tatoo shop?

In the same vein, here is Today’s Houses, Tatoo Version:

———–
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1514-E-Beech-St-Pueblo-CO-81001/14010296_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}

1927 2/1 on almost two acres near Pueblo CO. “The large property behind the house is zoned I-3. That area would be great for a construction company to store equipment and supplies or lots of other possible uses.”

Aug 2011: Listed $70K.
This is the cheapest place. If he wants 5 acres on the other side of the continental divide, how about this:

———-
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2336-K-3-4-Rd-Grand-Junction-CO-81505/13944483_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}

1973 3/2 on 4.5 acres outside of Grand Junction. I don’t know why anyone would want to live out west. Those acres are a patch of DUST. Not even weeds…

Price bubbled up, still bubbling down:

Nov 2001: Sold $150K
Jul 2008: Listed $339K (yeah right)
Jul 2011: Lilsted $230K (still overpriced)

———-

You’d have to ink a lot of tramp stamps to afford to live out there…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 09:12:34

I hear you. I don’t get it either.I suppose that I should start yelling at the kids to stay off my lawn.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-24 10:05:13

Where is the money to buy 5 acres in Colorado?

I was wondering that, too. Thanks for taking the time to dig up examples of what it would cost.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:25:20

For some reason the young pups seem to think that having a tat is uber-cool.

And if I were savvier about investing, I’d be investing in the companies that make the equipment that removes tattoos. Because it won’t be long before there’s a huge demand for this equipment.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-10-24 10:49:22

I’ve been fighting and losing this argument with my youngest for 3 years now.

As soon as she turned 18, she ran out and got a couple of tats. Which is bad enough; what makes these worse is that they are stupid ones.

Then she bitches about how she can’t get a better job, because all us old folks are prejudiced against people with tats and piercings.

Hey, it’s America. Do what you want to do. You can display your individuality (???…..when everyone is getting them?) by getting tattoos, or you can be individualistic in a way that doesn’t pizz/offend people who might hire you otherwise.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 12:07:46

It may have gotten hung up in moderation but I’ll try again.

One of our site laborers said a few weeks back that he’s going to get his balls tattoo and pierced. I asked him why with a pained look on my face and he said “it will be cool”.

Good grief.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 13:17:54

One of our site laborers said a few weeks back that he’s going to get his balls tattoo and pierced. I asked him why with a pained look on my face and he said “it will be cool”.

Good grief.

Ask this guy if he plans to get a vasectomy. I’ll betcha money that the answer will be no.

Stupid people shouldn’t breed.

 
Comment by polly
2011-10-24 13:45:36

I was walking home from class once and saw a young woman with extensive facial tattoos working in a shop in NYC. Another middle aged person walking near me had clearly seen the same young woman and our eyes made contact. Once we were a store fronts down, I said, “Doesn’t she realize she may want a different kind of job someday?” Other middle aged person agreed. Perhaps that is the issue. They really don’t think that far ahead.

I saw a young man on the subway once who had extensive Celtic style tattoos on his sides from a little bit below his arm pit to his waist (at least). They showed because he was wearing a muscle shirt with huge holes cut out to display his sides. That struck me as the right way to go if you wanted a lot of tattooing but also wanted to be able to hold down a job. Put a regular undershirt under a dress shirt and no one would know they were there. A moderate quality polo shirt would also hide it.

I don’t see the point, myself, but there are ways to do it and ways not to do it.

 
Comment by Montana
2011-10-24 14:00:45

*caresses own smooth and tat-free arms*

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-24 14:09:58

They really don’t think that far ahead.

Sometimes when people are pretty sure they’re screwed no matter what they do, they’ll self-sabotage just to have something to blame it on. If “the man” isn’t going to give you a job anyway, might as well advertise how much you don’t like him.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 14:12:54

oxide
It depends where the piercing is, if it is totally reversible. I was told ones on your face can leave a scar. How about those huge holes in the ears? I doubt that doesn’t leave an ugly scar.

I think a body full of tattoos is a mental condition. This is America, not Africa. At the bank the other day, a young man’s arms and back were completely covered with tattoos. Yikes.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 15:57:13

Slim……Breeding??? I’ll bet he is on the down low with a few males on the side who would appreciate it…justsayin

Good grief.

Ask this guy if he plans to get a vasectomy. I’ll betcha money that the answer will be no. Stupid people shouldn’t breed.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 16:32:41

I’d be investing in the companies that make the equipment that removes tattoos ;-)

Laser$ = “bright future” (ask anyone in MilitaryIndustrialInc.’$ weapon$ development) or perhaps toe nail fungu$ (MedicalIndu$trialComplexInc.’$)

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2011-10-24 07:57:10

Job choices

Plenty of unemployed engineers, accountants, scientists, lawyers.

These people were steered to these bubble jobs by the constant destruction of manufacturing and outsourcing combined with a massive credit bubble which made these jobs pay.

 
Comment by BlueStar
2011-10-24 08:10:00

Bob, these people you are so worried about are just going to keep growing in number. You sound like a man with a strong opinion so what’s your “Final Solution”? Convert them or eliminate them? And put some numbers on each option so they can be explained to a average citizen.

Comment by CrackerBob
2011-10-24 09:33:48

“Final Solution”? Convert them or eliminate them?”

Come on; obviously I am half-joking. Personally, I care little what they do. However, it does concern me that what used to pass as a low-life mistake by a drunken sailor on leave in Bangkok can now be seen as a respectable career choice. Do tattoo “artists” really do anything positive; I think not? What they do accomplish is take a gullible young kid and reduce his or her employment opportunities. Seriously, what business wants to be representated by a person covered in ink or spikes (other than one that caters only to that crowd, i.e. fat, old Harley bikers, etc.)?

All of these professions: tattoos, gambling, pawn, etc. used to be acceptable only to the low lifes. Now they are everywhere. Only my opinion, but I do not see where the world is a better place by elevating these careers to the norm. Also, get off my yard.

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Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 11:38:46

James Bond is a heck of a gambler. He was never a low life.

 
Comment by CrackerBob
2011-10-24 11:57:05

1. I like 007 also; but, let us not confuse an urbane British naval commander spy with the common folk. Las Vegas was built on the backs of losers, not winners.

2. People do not generally pawn their belongings because things are going well. It is not a happy business.

3. And in general, well-adjusted young people do not cover their bodies with permanent ink and spikes thru their tougues and labia. Once they do that, life is probably not going to get better.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 15:21:42

I think it’s more that point that these low-life industries are the few industries that still have actual customers.
Innovation or high-quality products and services ? Nobody’s buying.

Never did understand the tattoo stuff either. I once read a comment that ladies should think twice before getting a tramp stamp: “Tattoo ink and spinal fluid do not mix, and no anesthesiologist will risk an epidural. That’s usually enough to send her little brain turning.”

 
 
 
Comment by salinasron
2011-10-24 08:39:45

Here it’s beauty parlors and nail salons and massage parlors. Useful businesses can’t make it but women still spend freely on vanity.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 08:48:13

ron
And many of those women should put the time into getting their weight off. The vanity stuff is easy. Getting healthy takes work. Walking your neighborhood for 30-40 minutes a day is free (money wise).

My girlfriends do the hair, nail, and zumba thing, yet they are all overweight. I like the $600/ 16 year plan (useful life), called the morning treadmill.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 10:28:14

My girlfriends do the hair, nail, and zumba thing, yet they are all overweight. I like the $600/ 16 year plan (useful life), called the morning treadmill.

Me? I take early morning walks in the nabe. Call it Stealth Neighborhood Cleanup, because I’m out there picking up the gar-bazh. (I hate litterers, but there they are, tossing crap out of car windows in the middle of the night.)

Not to mention pulling weeds and sweeping the sidewalk below the guerrilla garden I created on a city-owned lot next door. It’s great exercise and a fabulous way to meet people.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 12:56:02

Az Slim
The outdoors is a great place to be, but I have a time issue. The fresh air, the trees, the people. I hear ya.

Thanks for picking up after the litter pigs.
We’re getting a 4 legged pal. I already bought the pail and shovel, and the poop bags (liners). I plan to clock at least a 1/2 hr walking him. We plan to be responsible pet owners. That’s another form of litter, I wish people would take care of.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 13:00:34

I hear you, Awaiting. I’ve lost count of the number of larger women who nitpick their makeup in the restroom (just had my fill of that the other day in several airports). I want to tell them to use their makeup money on better food.

 
Comment by Montana
2011-10-24 14:05:25

Fat women are usually great at makeup and hair.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 14:30:19

Montana
So are thinner woman. I’ll tell you, my sil (brother’s wife,whom I like, btw) is a BBW (big beautiful woman) who has lost many female family members to Breast Cancer, yet hasn’t done a damn thing about her *obesity. Hair, make-up and clothing, I love them too, but I also treat my body right. Its gotta last me my whole life.

*fat cells make aromatase, which is a form of estrogen and is linked to some forms of BC

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 15:01:39

*fat cells make aromatase, which is a form of estrogen and is linked to some forms of BC

Which is why Arizona Slim does everything possible to stay slender. I’m betting on the notion that it will reduce my risk of disease.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 15:44:03

Az Slim
Me too. Plus, like you, I like to be in motion as well.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 16:20:18

From a geneticist POV, that’s quite a statement.

Stupid people shouldn’t breed. = No Steve Jobs to name x1 recent example. :-/

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 05:59:30

More local public unions raping the taxpayers - seems to happen everywhere…

http://www.phillyburbs.com - October 25th, 2011

————————————————

Municipal budgets outpace inflation

The cost of living has gone up 24 percent in a decade, yet municipal taxes have doubled, tripled and, in some cases, quadrupled in many boroughs and towns.

In Bristol Township, nearly a quarter of all health care expenses are dedicated to retired police, officials said. The town has more retired cops receiving health care coverage than active police, finance manager Gail Gordon said. Its health care budget was estimated at $4.3 million.

The number of employees isn’t necessarily the reason some plans cost more.

Falls budgeted $2.9 million this year for health benefits to cover 91 active and retired employees. Middletown provides coverage for 98 retired and current workers for less than half that amount, officials said. The reason: The people on Middletown’s Blue Cross Blue Shield plan agreed to a policy with higher deductibles, which the township reimburses. The change was forecast to save Middletown $866,227 per year.

But that savings will be needed to pay for the rising cost of its pensions, another major expense for area towns.

Middletown’s annual pension contributions rose $707,977 — from $409,132 to $1.18 million — in 2011.

Bristol Township’s rose to $2.4 million from $1.8 million the year before.

Nearly every community forked over significantly more for pension plans this year than last.

Bristol Township has half the number of employees that Bensalem has, yet it will spend nearly $1 million more on pensions this year, according to official documents. Township officials said they’re obligated to make payments guaranteed in police contracts that were signed years earlier.

Middletown has 52 police officers with an average salary of $97,694, according to township officials.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-10-24 06:18:53

seems to happen everywhere

No, it’s mostly limited to certain locations, mostly on the upper east coast, Illinois and California. It’s not “everywhere” no matter how much you want to believe that.

 
Comment by measton
2011-10-24 08:01:50

Now let’s compare that to the golden parachutes recieved by the CEO class fail or not in their job. We all of course pay for that as well in the form of decreased stock returns and higher prices.

The real problem in this country is not the unions 2banana, they have been in decline over the last 30 years, while the ceo class has become immensely wealthy and exerted ever greater control over our gov. Your constant jaw flapping on the issue won’t change that. The reality on the ground speaks for itself. The US is in decline because all of the wealth and political power are being controlled by an ever smaller # of hands.

Comment by Steve J
2011-10-24 09:31:04

I think the bigger problem is the cost of health insurance for retirees.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 10:03:41

It’s both.

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Comment by measton
2011-10-24 10:47:31

Then you should support a single payer system in the US like Canada and Europe which provides similar outcomes at 50% of the cost.

The reason health insurance costs so much is because the elite own and manipulate our gov, they can do that because their CEO class pull in 10’s of millions a year in salary and can use their companies vast financial resources to buy of politicians in secret via super pacs and the like. .

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2011-10-24 14:22:46

Our current health care system is designed to bankrupt you on your way out. One last looting, of everything you’ve got.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-24 15:16:01

You don’t HAVE to play along, but if you’re scared to death of the grim reaper or you’re past the point of making decisions and your decision makers are scared to death of the grim reaper, the looting will occur.

 
Comment by Awaiting
2011-10-24 15:59:04

“One last looting, of everything you’ve got.”
And then off to the undertaker to make sure of it for your surviviors. Drain the pockets of the bereaved.

Before my husband’s family became the dearly departed themselves, they were in the business.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:02:14

$100+ bn less to the top 1%ers if the mortgage deduction is eliminated…sounds like America could save a bundle with no harm done!

October 6, 2011, 4:10 PM ET

Want To Save $215 Billion? Eliminate the Mortgage Deduction
By Alan Zibel

Senate lawmakers said Thursday they want to be cautious about scaling back or eliminating the popular home mortgage-interest deduction to avoid further upsetting the troubled housing market.

The U.S. tax code provides generous subsidies to housing, including deductions for home mortgage interest, property taxes and an exclusion from all or part of capital gains taxes on many sales. Many academics favor eliminating or at least scaling back many of these subsidies, particularly the mortgage-interest deduction.

They argue that these tax incentives are expensive, provide an unhealthy subsidy to the housing sector, unfairly benefit the wealthy and fed the housing boom of the last decade. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that gradually eliminating the mortgage-interest deduction would save about $215 billion by 2021.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 06:31:57

“The Congressional Budget Office estimates that gradually eliminating the mortgage-interest deduction would save about $215 billion by 2021.”

$21 Billion per year for those who consider things on a yearly basis.

There is only so much money to go around. If more is collected in taxes (saved?!?) then less is available to spend on the actual house and debt service or to pay local taxes. Since stealing from a thief is considered good, this is a “good” plan.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:36:37

“Yearly basis”

The wording is quite ambiguous…I read the $215 bn as a yearly figure, but stand corrected if you know better.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 06:53:32

From the article in reference to O”bama’s proposal eliminating both MID and Capital gains exclusion:

“The White House says that measure would raise roughly $400 billion over 10 years…”

The rigorous use of common denominators is lost on the White House. Denominators do so restrict the imagination.

BTW, I consider Capital Gains tax on a house held long term an abomination. It is an inflation hedge tax.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-10-24 10:36:57

IMO, all capital gains should be indexed against inflation. You should not have to pay any tax on the phantom gain caused by the Fed’s intentional inflation.

But capital gains should also be taxed at the income-tax rate, not a different rate.

Income is income. Phantom income is not.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:42:41

A Taxing Debate: The Mortgage-Interest Deduction
By Ben Steverman - Oct 18, 2011 8:13 AM PT

The mortgage-interest deduction may be your favorite tax break, but be aware that it has some impressive enemies. The fiscal commissions of two different Presidents proposed eliminating it, first in 2005 and then in 2010. There’s also a steady stream of research from such places as the London School of Economics and the Brookings Institution arguing that the deduction doesn’t boost homeownership, but instead provides incentives for wealthier Americans to buy big houses and take on more debt.

Nevertheless, the mortgage-interest tax deduction survives, fortified in Washington by strong housing industry support and its presumed popularity with voters. Now, according to a recent Bloomberg Poll, a growing number of Americans may be willing to end the mortgage tax deduction — as long as they get something in return. Forty-eight percent of respondents said they were willing to give up all tax deductions, including the home mortgage deduction, in return for lower tax rates for every tax bracket. Forty-five percent were opposed in the survey of 997 adults, conducted for Bloomberg by Selzer & Company.

The results represent a significant shift from a December 2010 Bloomberg survey that asked the same question. That poll showed a majority, 51 percent, opposed to giving up tax deductions, with 41 percent in favor.

Dennis J. Ventry Jr., a professor specializing in tax law at the University of California-Davis School of Law, calls the provision, which costs nearly $100 billion a year, “the most inequitable and inefficient provision in the Internal Revenue Code.” The benefits of deducting interest from income increase with a homeowner’s tax rate, he notes. Thus, according to a 2011 study co-authored by Green, 46 percent of the deduction’s tax benefit goes to households earnings more than $100,000 per year.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2011-10-24 08:45:32

What is this gradual crap!! It is simple, only your primary residence gets the deduction. Any new mortgages do not qualify. If you sell the house you lose your deduction. If you rent your house you lose your deduction. Those that bought with the deduction in place will continue until the above stop gap measures take effect.

Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 09:26:40

I agree with everything except where new mortgages wouldn’t qualify. There is still some value in encouraging home buying. Just make the limit something like $417K for first-time buyers and $200K or so for trade-ups. (or similar) That will keep the incentive, but stop the abuse. And it would still save a ton of gov money.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 10:28:24

There is that word “save” again!

Words just don’t mean what they used to.

An affordable home for most ordinary people is around $60K. Why encourage more? Half the population earns $26K or less. Above average people do not need so much help.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:04:39

Eschewing Obama’s budget savings, politicians support mortgage-interest deduction
October 07, 2011 08:30AM

From left: President Barack Obama and Utah Senator Orrin Hatch

Though critics have long panned sections of the U.S. tax codes that subsidize housing and mortgages as overly expensive and unfairly benefiting the wealthy, policy makers at a Senate Finance Committee hearing were wary of changing any law that could do more harm to the fragile housing sector, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The mortgage-interest deduction tax code deducts taxes from mortgage interest and property taxes and excludes home sellers from the capital gains tax on most sales. Some say it facilitated the housing bubble, and the Congressional Budget Office has estimated that gradually abolishing it would save about $215 billion by 2021. Other research has shown eliminating the code would have a minimal affect on the nation’s homeownership rate.

With the federal budget under the spotlight in recent months, President Barack Obama proposed limiting the mortgage tax deductions to families that earn more than $250,000 each year. He said it would raise $400 billion over 10 years.

Nevertheless, to the delight of housing lobbyists, many politicians are wary. “With respect to the tax code, there are a number of proposals that would alter the treatment of housing, but any changes should happen only with the utmost care and significant transition periods,” said Utah republican Senator Orrin Hatch in a written statement for a Senate Finance Committee hearing.

Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 13:12:48

If homeownership is such a great thing, then why would anyone need a tax incentive in the first place?

Comment by cactus
2011-10-24 15:21:22

If homeownership is such a great thing, then why would anyone need a tax incentive in the first place?

Or government backed mortgages

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:12:55

Guv touts economic plan to Realtors
Also dodges liquor laws issue and expresses support for interconnect
by Andrew Kirk, THE PARK RECORD
Posted: 10/21/2011 04:47:32 PM MDT

Gov. Gary Herbert assured Park City real estate agents Thursday that he knows what they’re going through and he’s trying to help.

A former broker, Herbert reminded a ballroom full of agents at Canyons how difficult it was to be in the industry during Utah’s recession in the 1980s.

“I have the scars to prove it,” he said.

But Utah’s economy is growing three times faster than the national average and that will return stability to the marketplace.

“I’ve never been more optimistic about our future,” he said.

Herbert spent the majority of his time explaining his philosophy of how personal property rights and limited government support a strong economy and personal freedom.

“I’m a better governor because I was a Realtor,” he said. “Private property rights are the basis for freedom.”

The experience showed him the damage tight government regulation can do and taught him the importance of supporting small businesses, he said.

“If we can get the economy right, everything else takes care of itself,” he added. “It’s the rising tide that lifts all boats.”

As a former president of the Utah Association of Realtors, Herbert said he recognizes the power of the collective voice. He encouraged real estate agents to get involved in politics and support efforts to grow the economy and protect property rights.

The country’s financial situation is hurting Utah’s economy and its real estate market, Herbert acknowledged. But Utah can do its part to help the nation by limiting regulation in the state and setting an example for the nation.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 09:14:36

“Private property rights are the basis for freedom.”

Does the Governor know how to spell ‘USA Homestead Act” in the Google search window?

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:18:41

“…the average mortgage deduction for Arizona homeowners was about $14,000 last year. That’s only a few thousand dollars more than the standard tax deduction.”

The upshot: Without a much larger mortgage deduction than $14,000, such as would be enjoyed by someone using a mortgage to finance a $1m+ home purchase, the MID has little effect on taxes owed.

Realtors decry potential loss of mortgage deduction
by Catherine Reagor - Oct. 21, 2011 04:28 PM
The Arizona Republic

Eliminating the mortgage-interest deduction is a looming option for cutting the nation’s budget deficit. Realtors are taking to the road to fight against that and other issues they believe will hurt the already ailing housing market.

Thursday morning, the National Association of Realtors homeownership bus, painted red, white and blue, rolled into Phoenix and parked in front of the wine bar and restaurant Postino on Phoenix’s Central Avenue. Local and regional NAR leaders, as well as several agents, were there to protest the potential loss of the tax deduction as well as lower loan limits on government-backed mortgages.

“The mortgage deduction is a hot button for not only Realtors but homeowners,” said Holly Mabery, of the Keller Williams Heartland Group, at the event.

According to NAR data, the average mortgage deduction for Arizona homeowners was about $14,000 last year. That’s only a few thousand dollars more than the standard tax deduction. The deduction essentially drops the taxable income of homeowners because they can deduct the interest they pay on their mortgage in a year.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 06:30:36

Oct. 22, 2011, 1:48 p.m. EDT

Fed to try talking first with QE3 in reserve
By Greg Robb, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The Federal Reserve will try to give greater guidance to markets about its low interest rate policy at its November meeting while keeping more quantitative easing in its back pocket for use if if the economy starts to weaken, analysts said Friday after a wave of central-bank speeches this week.

Better economic data since the last Federal Open Market Committee meeting in late September will keep the Fed from buying more assets, said Michael Moran, chief economist at Daiwa Capital Markets America Inc.

The next step is more explicit guidance about the factors that back the Fed’s assessment that short-term interest rates will stay low until mid-2013, Moran said.

The guidance is expected to be something, though not exactly, along the lines laid out by Charles Evans, the president of the Chicago Fed, who has advocated that the Fed should spell out that it will keep short-term rates at zero until either the unemployment rate goes below 7% or the outlook for inflation over the medium term goes above 3%.

 
Comment by Awaiting
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 07:11:09

HBB Movie Time! Something to do this weekend.

———————————–

‘Margin Call’ takes different view of a firm’s failure
BY GARY THOMPSON
Philadelphia Daily News

“Margin Call” solves the problem by staying focused on a single day in the life of a Wall Street investment firm on the eve of the crisis - when the firm realized that its giant inventory of mortgage-backed securities is essentially worthless, and needs to be dumped before the rest of the world wakes up (figuratively, literally, as this occurs overnight).

A lowly risk analyst (Zachary Quinto) looks at the books and discovers the ticking time bomb, prompting a gathering of the firm’s big shots (Simon Baker, Kevin Spacey, Jeremy Irons, Demi Moore, Paul Bettany), who plot strategy.

“Margin Call” isn’t an inquiry into the specifics of the mortgage securities, derivatives, etc. It’s more interested in the nature of institutions, and it shows that companies, like people, have an instinct for survival. The firm’s CEO (Irons) decides that self-preservation is the goal, and all other moral issues are subordinate.

Scapegoats are fired, hardworking employees let go, and those who remain are handed bonuses for shoveling mounds of poop securities to unsuspecting clients.

Here is where “Margin Call” shows its pedigree - writer-director J.C. Chandor grew up in the home of a Merrill Lynch exec, and wants to show what the process looked like from the point of view of a Wall Streeter, those who held their noses and executed the firm’s odious, economically destructive actions.

And yet, if you really look at “Margin Call” you can see Chandor making important criticism in small and subtle ways - that genius brains better suited to curing cancer are being squandered on zero-sum (or outright destructive) trading schemes, that compensation has become divorced from economic gain/productivity, and that the interests of Wall Street and Main Street are often unaligned. And when they are, Wall Street will save its own hide, every time.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 09:10:05

“Margin Call” ;-)

Remind us all again what exactly precede$ a : “Margin Call”

For fun, you can also remind everyone “How” that is achieved, exactly.

 
 
Comment by michael
2011-10-24 07:35:04

I watched “Too Big to Fail” this past weekend. Great acting…Paul Giamotti as Bernanke was terrific.

Probably the best and most revealing line in the movie was when Bernanke and Paulson are having breakfast and they are discussing the possibility of BofA buying Lehman. Bernanke says something like this

“So you want me to lower the leverage requirements for a bank so it can buy a bank that was over leveraged?”

Very subtle comment but very illustrative of the fact that all they did was “kick the can” down the road.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:18:23

Agreed it was very entertaining, but I’m not sure how much the movie was factual versus fictional.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 09:05:35

but I’m not sure how much the movie was factual versus fictional.

Well, tell us again what are the $tatutory limit$ for the amount of monie$ that the FedRe$erveInc. is restricted to print?

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2011-10-24 12:07:34

The same can be said of the news on any given day.

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 08:09:43

From the Editors of American Banker

BankThink: Fed Attempt to Sugarcoat Foreclosure’s Effects Now Laughable

A Federal Reserve report published in July found that people who moved out of their homes after a foreclosure are “not likely to live in considerably lower quality homes than they did before.” The paper made Joel Sucher, a documentary filmmaker and BankThink columnist, wince.

“Was the Fed trying to convince itself that foreclosure isn’t that bad?” Sucher asks. “Would they roll out the pie charts and PowerPoint presentations and try to convince the rest of the financial community, Congress and the like, that homeowners don’t have to fear deterioration of lifestyle, maybe just a bit of downsizing?”

Whatever the intent, he finds the report risible today in light of the Occupy Wall Street protests: “Every day, there’s more evidence that homeowners aren’t simply settling for a move-in with relatives, or a cheap rental in some other part of town.”

This came through my e-mail. I apologize for not being able to supply a link.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 15:00:02

I don’t have much data to offer on this topic, but the close friends of our family who lost their home in a BOA foreclosure action actually rent a larger place now at a lower monthly. So it is not exactly clear that leaving behind an unaffordable mortgage automatically leads to housing penury.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 08:13:43

Interest Rates remain Low and Demand for Property still High!!

04/28/04

As Interest rates remain low with an expected increase in the coming months, Buyers continue to quickly absorb most of the available properties for sale. The Federal Reserve has indicated that rates will rise soon. With the rush to lock in the low rates, properties both Residential & Commercial continue to sell and rise in price. Builders have also been affected with recent increases in construction materials such as concrete and steel, therefore driving prices higher. Expected increases in property values through-out the South Florida market are between 10-15% for year end 2004.

Sellers are enjoying brisk increase in values and selling for full or above full price in some transactions. The Miami area markets have seen properties double in price over the past 2-3 years and even quicker in some markets. As property owners can actually see and appreciate thier investments, unlike a stock certificate, its very unlikely that we are in a Bubble as some might argue. More and more investors have turned to Real Estate as their most solid investment.

If you are looking to buy or sell Real Estate contact Marcelo. With over 13 years experience in the South Florida Market, He knows this market extremely well. Call or email him now.

Florida’s home resales’ median price rises in October

October existing-home sales show markets cooling, says NAR
ORLANDO, Fla. — Nov. 28, 2005 — Home sales statistics from the Florida Association of Realtors® (FAR) show that home prices continued to rise but the number of sales fell in October, notably in southern areas directly impacted by Hurricane Wilma’s march across the state. Most insurers stopped issuing new policies when the hurricane neared Florida, and, following the storm, some lenders required a re-inspection of properties before they would release mortgage money.

Despite storm problems, however, the state’s median home price rose 28 percent in October to $241,000 from $188,800 in October 2004. In September 2005, the median price was $247,800. In October 2000, FAR records show the statewide median sales price was $116,100, resulting in an increase of 107 percent over the five-year-period.

Many Realtors across the state report gains in housing supply, giving buyers a larger selection of homes to consider. Statewide, a total of 16,029 existing single-family homes sold last month compared to 16,844 homes a year ago for a decrease of 5 percent, according to FAR.

The national median existing-home price in September was $212,000, up 13.4 percent from the previous September’s median price of $187,000, according to the National Association of Realtors® (NAR). In California, the statewide median resales price was $543,980 in September; in New York, the median price was $275,000; and in North Carolina, the average resales price was $208,097.

Interest rates for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 6.07 percent in October, a slight increase from the average 5.72 percent in October 2004. FAR’s sales figures reflect closings, which typically occur 30 to 90 days after sales contracts are written.

Among the state’s larger markets, the Daytona Beach metropolitan statistical area (MSA) reported that 1,037 homes sold in October for an 18 percent gain over October 2004 home sales of 881. The median home price in Daytona Beach rose 35 percent over the same time period, from $165,000 in October 2004 to $223,300 in October 2005.

Shawn M. Goepfert, president of the Daytona Beach Area Association of Realtors and owner of Ideal Realty of Volusia, says that demand for Daytona-area homes is now catching up with supply. “We started 2005 off with only about 1,000 residential listings, really robust sales and it taking only about two or three weeks to get a contract,” Goepfert says. “That demand really pushed up our sales price, but in the last 30 days, our inventory has increased to about 3,000 residential listings.”

Other larger MSAs with strong sales and price increases include Jacksonville, with 1,504 home sales in October for a 38 percent gain over October 2004 sales numbers; and Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, with 3,735 homes sold for an increase of 4 percent over the same time period. Prices also rose in both markets over the year. In Jacksonville, the median price rose 20 percent to $191,600; in Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater the median price rose 35 percent to $225,700.

Among the state’s smaller MSAs, Lakeland-Winter Haven posted a 24 percent gain in home sales in October, with 513 homes changing hands compared to 414 homes a year ago. The market’s median sales price rose 50 percent in October to $173,500; last year, it was $115,500.

“I think people have discovered our little secret,” says Peggy Daley, treasurer of the Lakeland Association of Realtors and a Realtor with ImperiaLakes Realty Services in Lakeland. “We’ve got the best of everything. People are moving here in droves from South Florida, plus people from the North keep coming down and quickly realize that we’re centrally located with easy access to Tampa or Orlando — but without the traffic.”

Other smaller MSAs that posted gains in the number of homes sold in October include Ocala, where 482 homes sold for a 15 percent jump; and Tallahassee, where 393 homes sold for an 18 percent increase. The median sales price in those markets also rose. In Ocala, it rose 38 percent to $159,200; and in Tallahassee, 19 percent to $172,700.

© 2005 FLORIDA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS®

Florida Remains The STRONGEST Market in the USA!!!!

05/23/05

A recent survey from the National Association of Realtors (NAR) shows the 1st Quarter of 2005 showed STRONG gains year over year for Property Values in the Country. FLORIDA Cities took 8 of the Top 10 spots. The NAR’s quarterly report covers 136 metro areas. A record 66 of these have experienced double-digit jumps in home prices over the past year.The previous record was 62 in the last quarter of 2004. Only six areas showed a fall in prices and those declines were fairly modest.

Here are some of the Most Impressive Results.

http://www.marcelomerlo.com/PressRelease - 52k

Comment by goon squad
2011-10-24 10:00:49

Excellent article find Mr Saturday. The squad spent a few months in the Lake Worth / WPB area in 2004 and this was the first realization of an unsustainable bubble in RE.

Driving along 441 numerous billboards touting shiny new McMansions ‘from the $700’s’ left the squad wondering who the f* can afford this? The NAR propaganda machine was in full force then, the strongest gun in their arsenal then being over 1000 people are moving to Florida every day!

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 08:41:30

TOP STORY
New fed program lets more
Floridians refinance homes
Revamped plan eliminates equity restrictions.

More Floridians can refinance under revamped federal program that kills equity cap

by Kim Miller
Updated 10:35 a.m.

More Floridians with underwater home loans should be able to refinance into a lower interst rate through a revamped program announced today that eliminates equity restrictions.

Rules of the previous program, called the Home Affordable Refinance Program, said homeowners couldn’t owe more than 25 percent on their loan than their home is worth.

That left out many borrowers who bought during the boom years and have since seen their property values plummet.

The new program also eliminates the need for a property appraisal in some circumstances.
To participate in the new program, homeowners must be current on their mortgage payments.

“Building on the industry’s experience with HARP over the last two years, we have indentifed several changes that will make the program accessible to more borrowers with mortages owned or guaranteed by (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac),” said Federal Housing Finance Agency Acting Director Edward DeMarco. “Our goal in pursuing these changes is to create refinancing opportunities for these borrowers, while reducing risk for Fannie Make and Freddie Mac and bringing a measure of stability to housing markets.”

Today’s announcement also extends the end of the program through Dec. 31, 2013. The plan is only for loans sold to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on or before May 31, 2009.

Federal regulators will hold a press conference later this morning with more details on the revamp.

Mortgage lenders and servicers will be issued guidance on how to implement the program by Nov. 15. Industry participation in HARP is not mandator.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/ - 93k -

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-10-24 09:20:42

18 Responses to “More Floridians can refinance under revamped federal program that kills equity cap”

16
not eligible Says:
October 24th, 2011 at 11:07 am

Well, this $ucks!!! This is only for loans sold to Fannie or Freddie!!! What about the freakin rest of us? We’re underwater too!!! And trying to keep our heads above water, BUT GUESS WHAT, the ship is sinking!!!

18
jeff saturday Says:
October 24th, 2011 at 11:15 am

“To participate in the new program, homeowners must be current on their mortgage payments.”

Another deal for the 1%

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:50:46

Missing from Professor Sanders’ discussion: Who gets to pay for the New Mortgage Deal refinancings?

Opposing view: Let the mortgage market heal itself
By Anthony Sanders
Updated 15h 40m ago

According to the Federal Reserve, homeowner equity has fallen $7.25 trillion from the peak of the housing bubble. Millions of borrowers owe more on their house than it is worth, posing a clear and present danger to the economic recovery.

But what can we do to solve the negative equity problem? One idea comes from Sens. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., who want Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration to refinance all mortgages they hold or insure at current mortgage rates of about 4%. There would be no limits based on the current value of the house and no credit checks — the borrower need only be current for four months on a mortgage.

Would refinancing underwater borrowers to 4% solve the negative equity problem? In a word, no.

The purpose of such legislation would be to stimulate the economy by unleashing billions of dollars into the economy from mortgage refinancing. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that 2.9 million mortgages would be refinanced, and there would be 111,000 fewer defaults.

That might sound like a lot. But 2.9 million mortgages refinanced at 4% would only generate about $7.4 billion for the economy in the first year. That would add just one-tenth of 1% to personal consumption (and that’s if that money is spent and not saved).

A little bit more might come from the roughly 20% of mortgages held directly by lending institutions and not owned or insured by Fannie and Freddie. State attorneys general are leaning toward the Boxer-Isakson model in settlement talks with mortgage lenders and servicers.

The bottom line is that solving the negative equity problem is very difficult. Mortgage rate reductions won’t do much to prevent defaults or stimulate the economy. Only a massive write-down of mortgage principal could do that. While that sounds easy, bear in mind the size of the losses. Banks and the federal government do not have $7.25 trillion lying around to perform write-downs even if they wanted to.

The solution, unfortunately, is to let the housing and mortgage market heal itself. Economic growth and a reduction in unemployment will go a long way towards curing the negative equity problem. So be patient.

Anthony Sanders is a professor of real estate finance at George Mason University.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 08:53:44

Home mortgage refinancing: Obama’s push to help “underwater” homeowners
By Lynn Sweet on October 24, 2011 8:41 AM

WASHINGTON–President Obama will announce new steps to make it easier to refinance for homeowners with high rate mortgages and homes worth less today than they were when purchased. Obama will make the announcement, aimed at “underwater” owners in Las Vegas, one of the cities hit the hardest in the foreclosure crisis. A deadlocked Congress will not need to approve any of the new rules announced Monday by the Federal Housing Finance Authority. The Obama move comes as interest rates are at record lows–but banks are reluctant to loan. The rules are intended to prod banks to re-fi.

from the FHFA:

In general, borrowers must meet the following criteria:

 The mortgage must be owned or guaranteed by Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae.

 The mortgage must have been sold to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac on or before May 31, 2009.

 The mortgage cannot have been refinanced under HARP previously unless it is a Fannie Mae loan that was refinanced under HARP from March-May, 2009.

 The current loan-to-value (LTV) ratio must be greater than 80%.

 The borrower must be current on the mortgage at the time of the refinance, with no late payment in the past six months and no more than one late payment in the past 12 months.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 09:14:21

Whether or not you agree with these new measures, it looks as though Obama has the upper hand in the housing arena over his Republican rivals.

Obama’s Executive-Power Use On Housing Shows He Still Holds Some Cards
11:36 am
October 24, 2011
by Frank James

An advantage of being an Oval Office incumbent seeking re-election was readily evident Monday in President Obama’s roll-out of his administration’s latest effort to help struggling homeowners.

With many Americans either facing foreclosure and others, because of declining property values or much tighter lending standards, unable to refinance their mortgages to take advantage of lower interest rates, the Obama administration is doing extensive renovations of its current housing policies.

For example, some homeowners whose mortgages, backed by the government-sponsored entities Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are now significantly higher than their home’s market value will have the chance to refinance, something that’s been mostly impossible until now.

The president’s executive power allows him to actually put into effect real changes as opposed to merely proposing them which is pretty much all the Republican presidential candidates can do for now.

Of course, as Chris Arnold reported on Morning Edition, the GOP candidates haven’t offered much if anything in terms of specific housing proposals. Mitt Romney, for instance, essentially said at last week’s presidential debate in Las Vegas that the marketplace should be allowed to sort out the matter.

Many have noted the irony of the Republican presidential candidates in Las Vegas not taking the opportunity to spell out any real policies to address the nation’s housing crisis. Nevada has the nation’s highest foreclosure rate.

So the steps the White House announced Monday will allow Obama to campaign against his Republican rivals by contrasting his specific policy changes against the GOP’s field lack of any policies other than to stand by and watch.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 09:24:43

This was a waste of taxpayers money during a depression…..according to our prez who spent his load in libya to install sharia law….Brings back memories of Spook who said that was their ultimate goal.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/george-washington-bridge-turns-80/

 
Comment by Steve J
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 09:56:01

There was an article I read long ago.

About how the McRib is a leading indicator of when things are getting really bad in the economy…

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 10:13:57

MarketWatch dot com
Political Watch
High hurdle seen for increasing conforming loan limits in House
October 21, 2011, 1:38 PM

Higher limits on the size of government-backed home loans are facing a high barrier in the House of Representatives after winning approval in the Senate late Thursday.

Senators voted 60-38 late Thursday night to restore the size of loans that the government buys or insures to a maximum of $729,750. The limits dropped to $625,500 on Oct. 1. Senate lawmakers tacked the higher limits onto a federal spending bill that the chamber will vote on later this year.

Supporters say raising the limit will help boost the sagging real-estate market. But critics including Sen. Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican, say higher-end homebuyers don’t need the help.

House Republicans are likely to stymie the Senate’s move and keep the limit where it is, according to one analyst.

“As House Republican leaders want to shrink the government’s role in housing finance, it is hard to see why they would advance legislation to make more of the mortgage market subject to government support,” MF Global Inc. financial services policy analyst Jaret Seiberg said in an email. “This is why we don’t expect the higher conforming loan limits to get through the House.”

The Senate’s move would raise the limit of loans that can be guaranteed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration.

– Robert Schroeder

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-10-24 11:18:04

Good for the GOP if they can make it happen.

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 12:50:04

$625,500 is STILL an INSANE amount…

Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 13:19:38

Strawberry pickers are “higher-end homebuyers”?

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-10-24 14:25:03

What they should do is telegraph a continual reduction in the limit to $0. Make the limit go down by $2,000 per month for the next 30 years until there is no government support for mortgage debt.

Give capital markets time to get formed to fill the void, and put Fannie/Freddie on a glide-path to oblivion.

Where could I vote “yes” for this?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-10-24 15:02:45

I second your motion, Rental Watch.

 
Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 15:35:25

+10 for nearly perfect math!!!

$2K * 12 * 30 = $720K

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-10-24 16:16:53

RW:

WHY are you being so nice to RICH people?

How about lower it by $10K a month ..in 6 years/ 72 months its Zero.

Buy now, and lock in your maximum deduction (based on your purchase price) for the life of the loan..could get rid of a lot of inventory real fast.

Comment by Rental Watch
2011-10-24 16:34:49

I’m not talking about mortgage deduction, but government guarantees for loans (Fannie/Freddie). I wasn’t intending to be nice to rich people, but I do think you need to find a way to let the capital markets expand to fill the void (and it’s a big void) for non-GSE backed mortgages. 6 years isn’t enough. You also need to keep the reduction over time simple…straight-line is about as simple as you get.

If you don’t like government support for large loans today, fine…How about a cliff dropping off to $540,000 immediately, then $1,500 per month for 30 years? That would also be OK with me.

Taking away the mortgage deduction is a different discussion.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 10:15:42

Real Estate Weekly Archives
Oct. 21, 2011, 2:00 p.m. EDT
Where home values will rise in year ahead: report
By MarketWatch

Housing markets in the Great Plains, including those in North and South Dakota, Texas, Wyoming, Nebraska, Louisiana and Iowa, are showing the most signs of strength these days, according to a recent report from Veros, a risk management and valuation services firm.

Bismarck, N.D., is expected to be the strongest market in the country in the year ahead, with housing values appreciating at a 5.6% clip, according to the company. Other markets projected to be among the strongest in the year ahead include Honolulu; Fargo, N.D.; Harrisburg/Carlisle, Penn.; and Pittsburgh. Washington, D.C., and Boston remain strong city markets.

But while not many markets are fully rebounding, at least a good number of them likely won’t see values fall at quite as rapid a pace as in recent years, according to the report.

“Overall, the recovery in the housing market is limited to just a few markets and is taking a long time to occur. The encouraging news is that many markets are no longer expected to be rapidly declining,” said Eric Fox, vice president of statistical and economic modeling for Veros.

The weakest U.S. markets are in Nevada, inland areas of California, Washington and Oregon, according to the report. The weakest market in the year ahead: Bakersfield, Calif., where foreclosures have been a huge problem.

Comment by 2banana
2011-10-24 11:27:37

Harrisburg/Carlisle, Penn.; and Pittsburgh

Isn’t Oil City right in between these two?

The plan of some here on HBB is coming together!

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 17:56:40

No. It’s to the north of the Burgh, getting into the high plain area. There’s a reason that area is sparsley populated, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 
 
 
Comment by Watching and Waiting
2011-10-24 10:53:36

Oh my gosh, Oxide — what is that THING on the kitchen counter in the photos for the second house you are advertising today? I hope a child’s toy, and not an example of the local wildlife.

Comment by oxide
2011-10-24 13:25:19

Looks like a toy horse with an extra-fluffy tail. Wildlife that size usually has shorter legs…

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 13:55:23

Baldwin on Occupy Wall Street, the Fed, the SEC
October 24, 2011, 1:41 PM

NEW YORK – Alec Baldwin, a known quantity in liberal circles, lent his star power to the Occupy Wall Street protest where he found himself defending the current banking system.

On a video posted on YouTube, Baldwin said the current Federal Reserve needs to do its job and that he doesn’t think it should be dismantled.

“I don’t know enough about what ending the Fed would ultimately mean for capital markets in this country because you have to have capital markets in this country,” he said. “You can’t not have strong capital markets in this country, or the country’s going to go down the tubes … I think most people want change in this country, but they don’t want the country to go down the tubes.”

As he waded through a crowd of protesters, the star of NBC’s “30 Rock” as well as numerous films criticized the Securities and Exchange Commission for not doing enough to root out corruption on Wall Street.

“One of the institutions that is problematic for us is the SEC,” Baldwin said. “They don’t do anything. They’re totally in the pockets of the banks. You want the banks to do what banks do. But when the banks (act) like they’re a hockey player that’s starts throwing their elbow in your eye socket, you want the SEC to throw the flag. The SEC never throws the flag.”

See Baldwin’s video here.

On separate video clip, Baldwin told a local news station he came down to see for himself what the protesters want and why they’re here, because he wasn’t satisfied with media coverage. That video clip is here.

– Steve Gelsi

 
Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 14:11:33

So we found a more permanent rental here is SLO County. Signing he lease agreement Wednesday. Moving out of Grover Beach and into the village part of Arroyo Grande. Goodbye ocean view and WT neighbors, hello walkable streets, a warmer day-time temperatures and cheaper rent. It’s an old house that’s been added to: 4br/2ba with one of the bedrooms as a home office for me. Tons of over-priced homes for sale. We’ll wait it out, thanks, and if we like the area, we’ll pick one up much cheaper in three years.

But the best thing about the place is the enormous South-facing lawn. Now that we understand the cabbage worm and spittle bug life cycles from our recent arugula, lettuce and parsley crops, we’ll just have to figure out aphids, moles, gophers, locusts, etc. The high fence will at least keep the deer out. And the one that I just got won’t be bothering anyone anymore, “You won’t see him no more”. Now if I could just find a boar hunt. Damn, it feels good to be a renta.

MrBubble

Comment by cactus
2011-10-24 15:40:37

I know a person who owns a nursery in Phoenix AZ he wants to move to Arroyo Grande some day.

I used to live in SLO its very nice up there I think there is no work though? Mostly retired folks, farmers and fishermen and some state and city workers.

Last time I was up there it seemed everyone was growing grapes

Comment by MrBubble
2011-10-24 15:49:53

Wife is in grapes and I am working remotely back to SF. Otherwise, there doesn’t seem like much, you’re right.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-10-24 16:14:15

Congrats! Patience is a virtue, really!

RE:
Comment by cactus
2011-10-24 15:40:37
I know a person who owns a nursery in Phoenix AZ

Went to a private vintner on Saturday, flyer posted at the gated call box:

“1500 oak trees for sale:
Oak trees @ 36″ = $200.00 each.”

Mr. Cole’s (age 9) “lemonade stand” light bulb was suddenly illuminated. ;-)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 14:27:15

The age-old debate between laissez-faire and interventionist approaches is alive and well during the unraveling phase of the housing bubble. Most suggestions by MSM-favored experts seem to support hair-of-the-dog housing bubble reflation, which I find quite puzzling; haven’t economists discovered irreversible processes by now?

The US needs to act on housing
October 14, 2011 1:22 pm
by Gavyn Davies

No-one can deny that the weakness of the housing market remains at the heart of the economic crisis in the US. In fact, it is the American equivalent of the sovereign debt crisis in the eurozone. The overhang of housing debt is forcing US households to run large financial surpluses in order to pay down their liabilities, just as the the overhang of sovereign debt in the eurozone is forcing governments to improve their financial balances. And that is resulting in weak economic activity on both sides of the Atlantic. The question of what should be done about it is now coming to the centre of the economic debate in the US. Diagnosing the problem is relatively straightforward. Solving it is not.

The story of the American housing bubble, told in the graph below, is by now a very familiar one. During the boom years up to 2006, the build up in mortgage debt was more than matched by the rise in house prices, so net worth in housing rose dramatically, by more than $8 trillion in less than a decade. (This is equal to 60 per cent of US GDP in 2006.) However, when house prices started to fall, this process was even more rapidly reversed. Net worth in housing has plummeted by $7.3 trillion in the last five years. This has left 22 per cent of US households holding outstanding mortgage debt which exceeds the value of their homes.

There is no end in sight to this problem. House prices appeared to stabilise in 2010, but now seem to be falling again, as the rising number of repossessions increases the overhang of unsold homes on the market. Although households are trying to pay down mortgage debt, this process is inevitably very slow, relative to the potential speed at which house prices could fall. Fears are mounting that the housing market is beginning to spiral downwards again.

Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-24 18:36:23

“Although households are trying to pay down mortgage debt, this process is inevitably very slow, relative to the potential speed at which house prices could fall.”

On the way up, most wages weren’t even close to keeping up with rising housing prices. On the way down, falling wages could make debt incurred during the bubble increasingly hard to repay.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 14:29:57

Hair Bite of the dog cure for eurozone debt crisis?

FT dot com
October 24, 2011 7:15 pm
Hard line adopted on Greek debt loss
By Peter Spiegel in Brussels, Gerrit Wiesmann in Berlin and Hugh Carnegy in Paris
Greece debt crisis

European negotiators have asked Greek debt holders to accept a 60 per cent cut in the face value of their bonds, a hardline stance that far exceeds losses agreed in a deal between private investors and eurozone authorities three months ago.

The stance, delivered to a consortium of international banks at the weekend by Vittorio Grilli, Italian treasury chief and lead eurozone negotiator, is a victory for German-led northern creditor countries who have been pushing for Greek bondholders to accept far more of the burden for a second bail-out.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-10-24 14:51:04

Ya know the sad thing about Greece is it’s gone back and forth w/brinkmanship and back so often…it’s sort of a yawn at this point. I think we’ve been preparing for that inevitable default for 4 years now. I guess any preparations we’ve had to consider are done. Sometimes they’ve been redone. It’s not a bring it on attitude.

I think I’d call it vigilance exhaustion.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 14:33:03

FT dot com
Last updated: October 24, 2011 5:21 pm
Obama to unveil help for homeowners
By Shahien Nasiripour in New York

US mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will ease the refinancing process for distressed US homeowners, reducing fees and allowing borrowers who owe significantly more on their mortgages than the actual value of their homes to acquire new government-backed loans.

Their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, will change various parts of the nearly three-year-old Home Affordable Refinance Program, an initiative targeted at homeowners with negative equity in US-backed mortgages originally hailed as helping 4m to 5m borrowers refinance into cheaper loans. President Barack Obama is set to announce the plan in a speech later on Monday in Las Vegas, Nevada, one of the states hit hardest by foreclosures.

Until August, just 894,000 homeowners had taken advantage of the programme.

Perhaps double that number will eventually benefit from the program over the next two years, the FHFA said in a statement on Monday. The agency declined to specify whether that increase would come from the announced changes, which is expected to effect a much larger segment of borrowers, or whether that increase naturally would have occurred given present record-low rates. The White House, burnt by rosy housing market forecasts in the past, similarly declined to forecast the number of beneficiaries.

The fresh proposal comes as the Obama administration and the Federal Reserve struggle to jump-start a moribund housing market that continues to weigh down the economy and dampen consumer sentiment. More than two years after the US recession officially ended, home prices continue to fall, and are forecast to keep falling till the end of next year.

Comment by rms
2011-10-24 23:16:25

I love these solutions that are focused on treating the symptoms rather than the culprits who created this mess.

BTW, who wants to pay *anything* on an upside-down asset?

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-24 17:03:55

If you can’t hack it in Hell’s Kitchen, you might be able to build railway bridges in China even if you shouldn’t. From today’s Asia Times:

“China’s disaster-hit and scandal-ridden railways have succumbed to yet another shattering blow as it emerged that critical engineering work on a new line north of Beijing had been illegally outsource to a restaurant chef.”

The cook, who was part of a team of sub-contracted work to build two bridges and a tunnel as part of a $370 million project in Jilin province, freely admitted that he had no experience outside the kitchen. Those qualifications nevertheless put him in charge of bridge-builders who, unfortunately, knew just as little about construction.”

“Labourers toiling under the the chef’s woefully inexperienced oversight told local media in Jilin province that their suspicions were raised when they were asked to use boulders to fill concrete bridge supports that were themselves built with an obvious excess of san in the mix.”

“Outsourcing of construction projects by the original contractor is illegal by routine in China and embezzlement is known to be rife at each successive layer of sub-contraction. As money is creamed-off, it is “saved” through use of cheaper materials and cheaper workers - in reality, men with virtually no experience in construction.”

Lots of comments have been made about the shoddy construction during the U.S. housing bubble. That looks like small stuff compared to what may have been happening in China. I wonder if any of the largely vacant high rises in China were put up with such lax oversight.

Comment by combotechie
2011-10-24 17:36:57

Uh, isn’t the Oakland Bay bridge going over to China to be worked on?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-10-24 17:49:21

Story doesn’t pass the smell test. I’d wager that someone who really knew how to build correctly also knew how to bid the project just below that and knew how to make it so. Also skilled at the art of offering up a scapegoat or well connected to those that are.

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2011-10-24 17:52:13

A couple more paragraphs from the story:

“Last week, surveys suggested that some 70 percent of railway projects under construction in China have been either completely or partially suspended. As credit-tightening has hit local government debt has soared into the stratosphere, showed other surveys, workers have not been paid - in some cases not for six months.”

“Those findings are readily confirmed in cities like Hangzhou, where colossal rail projects lie half-finished and seemingly abandoned by workers who, just a few months ago, were swarming over the cities in their thousands.”

Looks like classic boom, bust except maybe even lower on the quality end.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-10-24 18:58:24

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196444

The bottom line on all the frauds. Wake up, Sheeple.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:15:47

Topic
Great Recession
Monday, Oct 24, 2011 10:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Can Obama fix Geithner’s housing bust?
A new plan to help homeowners holds some promise, but comes after three years of abject failure
By Andrew Leonard

Moments before a conference call in which White House officials were set to explain their new plan to resuscitate the nation’s morbid housing sector, Dan Pfeiffer, President Obama’s communications director, got on the line and debuted the latest administration jingle: “We can’t wait.”

The gist: Since congressional Republicans are blocking any action on the economy, Obama has been forced to take matters into his own hands and do what he can via executive action. Case in point: the administration’s plan, announced Monday, to make it considerably easier for homeowners to take advantage of current phenomenally low interest rates and refinance their mortgages.

“Where Congress won’t act, this president will,” said Pfeiffer. “Every week going forward, you can expect the president to be making executive actions.”

So what took him so long? Shaun Donovan, secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and Gene Sperling, director of President Obama’s National Economic Council, then proceeded to make a yeoman effort to outline the various rules tweaks that they hope will unclog the refinancing pipeline, and, ideally, give the overall economy a boost. But the task couldn’t have been easy. Because on that very same morning, everybody who pays close attention to the housing sector was already buzzing over a blockbuster article by the Washington Post’s Zach Goldfarb detailing just how disastrous the Obama administration’s attempts to fix the housing sector have been.

Nobody comes out of Goldfarb’s story looking good, but Timothy Geithner looks especially bad. The responsibility for the failure to move aggressively to help struggling homeowners — whether those who were simply “underwater” on their mortgages (meaning that their houses are worth less than the their outstanding mortgage balance) or those who were actively facing foreclosure — gets blamed fairly definitively on the treasury secretary. Geithner was consistently more worried about the health of the financial sector than he was about the housing sector and actively discouraged Obama from diverting resources toward helping homeowners.

The administration ended up spending only a fraction of the $50 billion it had allocated for homeowner assistance, and to date, reports Goldfarb, “administration programs have permanently reduced the debt of just one tenth of 1 percent of underwater borrowers.”

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:20:00

Obama’s efforts to aid homeowners, boost housing market fall far short of goals
By Zachary A. Goldfarb, Published: October 23

It was a critical plan to jump-start the economy.

President Obama pledged at the beginning of his term to boost the nation’s crippled housing market and help as many as 9 million homeowners avoid losing their homes to foreclosure.

Nearly three years later, it hasn’t worked out. Obama has spent just $2.4 billion of the $50 billion he promised. The initiatives he announced have helped 1.7 million people. Housing prices remain near a crisis low. Millions of people are deeply indebted, owing more than their properties are worth, and many have lost their homes to foreclosure or are likely to do so. Economists increasingly say that, as a result, Americans are too scared to spend money, depriving the economy of its traditional engine of growth.

The Obama effort fell short in part because the president and his senior advisers, after a series of internal debates, decided against more dramatic actions to help homeowners, worried that they would pose risks for taxpayers and the economy, according to numerous current and former officials. They consistently unveiled programs that underperformed, did little to reduce mortgage debts owed by ordinary Americans and rejected a get-tough approach with banks.

Doing more to address the housing crisis may be crucial not only for an economy flirting with another recession but also for a president running for reelection.

After watching their homes’ values collapse in recent years, a quarter of all homeowners are “underwater,” owing more than their homes are worth. The president’s housing policy has caused a rift with political allies, such as black and Hispanic groups, whose members have been disproportionately hurt by the crisis.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:23:46

Obama pledges new efforts to ease US home repossession crisis
Package of reforms will make it easier for struggling borrowers to refinance mortgages
By Stephen Foley, Associate Business Editor
Tuesday, 25 October 2011

Barack Obama launched a new effort last night to revive the moribund US housing market, in the hope of putting the world’s largest economy on a path to recovery and shoring up his shaky re-election bid.

Travelling to the state of Nevada, which has the highest rate of foreclosures in the US, the President promised a string of executive orders and administration actions to boost the US economy under the mantra of “We can’t wait” for a divided Congress to act. In the first wave of measures, the administration will make it possible for more borrowers to refinance their mortgages, even if price falls mean they have no equity left in their homes. Tackling the US foreclosure crisis is vital to improving the sinking fortunes of the country’s economy, analysts say, and critics of the administration have argued that trying to engineer a robust recovery without stabilising the housing market is like trying to build on quicksand.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:26:24

Obama and the politics of the housing foreclosure crisis
Posted by Aaron Blake at 04:00 PM ET, 10/24/2011

President Obama is in Nevada today touting the federal government’s new program to ward off the foreclosure crisis. And there’s a lot at stake — mostly because of the states that have been hit the hardest by the crisis.

Data earlier this year from CoreLogic.com showed that nearly two-in-three Nevada homeowners owed more on their property than their homes were worth — a situation also known as being “underwater.” Nevada was followed by Arizona (51 percent), Florida (47 percent) and Michigan (36 percent) in terms of underwarter loans.

In other words, the four states with the highest percentages of underwater homeowners are all large states with major electoral vote treasure troves where both parties are likely to spend money in the presidential general election.

These are the voters, er, people that Obama’s new executive order, which will allow homeowners struggling to refinance their mortages at very low rates, is targeting.

If the program succeeds, Obama could reap some significant rewards in states that are central to his 2012 chances. There are 89 electoral votes to be had in Arizona, Michigan, Ohio, Nevada, Florida and Colorado alone — roughly one-third of the 270 electoral votes a candidate needs to win. (Obama won every one of those states, save Arizona, in 2008.)

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:29:11

It’s not a bailout if it’s in your own state or Congressional district.

Why Politicians Don’t Want to Touch the Housing Crisis
By Molly Ball
Oct 24 2011, 6:49 PM ET 25

Republicans complain Obama’s new measures are a political ploy. But when it comes to housing, there may be no safe political ground.

Barack Obama would have you believe that Mitt Romney is a heartless zillionaire who doesn’t think the government should do anything about Americans losing their homes to foreclosure. Romney would have you believe that the foreclosure problem is yet more evidence of Obama’s failure to heal the economy.

Meanwhile, when the GOP candidates were asked about housing in last week’s debate, they all basically dodged the question. And Obama’s plan, announced Monday in Las Vegas, is being criticized as too little, too late, by some Democrats.

The housing issue, it seems, is a political hot potato — one every candidate can’t wait to toss to the next guy before it burns him up.

It’s one of those issues that confounds partisan equations and eludes easy messaging, because voters basically want to hear politicians say two contradictory things. They want the government to act to stem the tide of foreclosures. But they don’t want their money going to help those they see as irresponsible.

It was housing policy, after all, that spurred CNBC’s Rick Santelli to declaim the rant that’s credited with catalyzing the tea party movement in 2009. “How many of you people want to pay for your neighbors’ mortgage that has an extra bathroom and can’t pay their bills?” he railed.

But that sentiment coexists with the notion that something has to be done — that’s why Democrats pounced so gleefully on Romney’s statement last week that the government should “let [the foreclosure process] run its course and hit the bottom.” On Monday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney took a shot at Romney’s statement, saying, “That’s not a solution.”

All of this has unfolded against the backdrop of Las Vegas, the nation’s foreclosure capital, where half-built subdivisions decorate the sprawling edges of the metropolitan area. The state’s governor, Brian Sandoval, and junior senator, Dean Heller, both Republicans, have both said they disagree with Romney’s hands-off position.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:31:34

Shilling Calls New Obama Housing Plan `Another Bailout’

Oct. 24 (Bloomberg) — Gary Shilling, president of A. Gary Shilling & Co., Doug Dachille, chief executive officer of First Principles Capital Management LLC, and Bloomberg Government analyst Nela Richardson discuss President Barack Obama’s new proposal to loosen home refinance requirements and its impact on the housing market. They speak with Pimm Fox on Bloomberg Television’s “Taking Stock.” (Source: Bloomberg) (Bloomberg)

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:40:06

Obama’s Housing Plan May Help Him More Than Homeowners
Officials revamp the rules to allow underwater homeowners to refinance more easily
By Danielle Kurtzleben
October 24, 2011

President Barack Obama’s latest effort to tackle the housing crisis—unveiled Monday in Las Vegas—is as much about politics as it is economics. Frustrated by Congress in his attempts to boost the economy with new legislation, Obama instead is using his executive authority to tweak rules governing home refinancings. Under the new plan, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the overseer of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, announced that the Home Affordable Refinance Program would undergo a series of changes aimed at encouraging more borrowers to refinance their mortgages. The new rules open the gates for more homeowners to refinance by removing the 125-percent loan-to-value ceiling for refinancing, meaning that some new borrowers whose loans exceed the value of their homes may now take advantage of historically low mortgage rates. But given the strict requirements that homeowners will still have to meet, the program’s effectiveness might still be limited.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:42:36

What I said…

Refi plan: If homeowners win, someone else loses
Kathleen Pender
Monday, October 24, 2011

The government’s new plan to let more underwater homeowners refinance their mortgage is a good deal for homeowners who qualify, but for every dollar they save in monthly payments, someone will lose.

That someone is whoever owns the mortgage being refinanced. Mortgage owners include Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the taxpayer-owned entities that own and guarantee home loans; the Federal Reserve, banks, insurance companies, pension funds, endowments and other investors worldwide.

From a cash-flow standpoint, “it’s a zero sum game,” says banking analyst Bert Ely.

Suppose a bank holds a mortgage paying 6 percent interest. If mortgage rates drop to 4 percent and the homeowner refinances, the bank will get back the outstanding balance, but will have to reinvest that money, almost certainly at a lower rate.

From the investor’s standpoint, it’s kind of like buying a five-year certificate of deposit yielding 5 percent. If three years later interest rates have dropped to 1 percent, you will be awfully glad you have that CD at 5 percent. If the bank could force you to redeem the CD early, you’d be hopping mad because you would have to reinvest at 1 percent.

Unlike CDs, most mortgages can be prepayed at any time. This is a big risk for mortgage investors.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-10-25 07:51:03

Not sure why I’m supposed to feel sorry for mortgage investors when the government has interfered in every stock market bet I’ve made in the last 3 years.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:49:23

As I predicted…

FT dot com
October 24, 2011 11:18 pm
US mortgage bonds at six-month low

By Robin Harding in Washington and Michael Mackenzie and Shahien Nasiripour in New York

Prices for billions of dollars in mortgage bonds fell to their lowest levels in six months on Monday as traders bet that new measures to help distressed homeowners would lead to a wave of early repayments.

The price declines hit mortgage-backed securities sold with coupons – the return paid to investors – that are higher than current interest rates. Such bonds gained value earlier this year as investors sought higher-yielding assets, pushing their prices well above 100 cents on the dollar.

Following the announcement of Federal Housing Finance Agency measures designed to help borrowers refinance mortgages, the price of Fannie Mae-guaranteed MBS sold with a 6 per cent coupon fell by by more than half a point, pushing their yield up from 2.29 to 2.53 per cent. It was their worst one-day performance this year.

The price falls highlight the mixed effects of the FHFA action, because for every homeowner who refinances and enjoys a lower rate, there is an investor who loses out on higher income as mortgages – and the bonds they back – are repaid early.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-10-24 22:54:54

In case you were wondering where academic support for all the brilliant hair-of-the-dog U.S. housing market remedies originates, look no further:

FT dot com
October 23, 2011 10:32 pm
Why the housing burden stalls America’s economic recovery
By Lawrence Summers

The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, too much borrowing and lending and too much spending, it can only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending. Most policy failures in the US stem from a failure to appreciate this truism and therefore to take steps that would have been productive pre-crisis but are counterproductive now with the economy severely constrained by lack of confidence and demand.

Thus even as the gap between the economy’s production and its capacity increases, fiscal policy turns contractionary, financial regulation focuses on discouraging risk-taking and monetary policy is constrained by concerns about excess liquidity. Most significantly US housing policies especially with regard to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, institutions whose purpose is to mitigate cyclicality, have become a case of disastrous procyclical policy.

Construction of new single family homes has plummeted from about 1.7m in the middle of the last decade to about 450,000 at present. With housing starts averaging well over a million during the 1990s, the shortfall in housing construction now dwarfs the excess during the bubble and is the largest single component of the shortfall in gross domestic product.

Losses on owner-occupied housing have reduced consumers’ wealth by more than $7,000bn over the past five years, and uncertainty about the future value of their homes and the inability to refinance at reasonable rates deters household outlays on durable goods. The continuing weakness of the housing sector is a major risk for US financial institutions, raising significantly the costs of the loans they offer.

In retrospect it would have been better if financial institutions and those involved in regulating them, especially the Federal Housing Finance Agency, recognised that house prices can go down as well as up, if more rigour had been applied in providing credit, if the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) had been more careful in monitoring those originating and servicing loans, and if there had been more vigilance about fraudulent behaviour.

Yup.

 
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