Bits Bucket for October 31, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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As I read this I wasn’t sure they were really guilty of these charges. Can anyone in the legal field offer any comment? Does not bidding against someone you know actually constitute rigging the proceedings?
Investors guilty of rigging real estate auctions
Three San Mateo real estate investors and one who does business in the county have pleaded guilty to rigging public foreclosure auctions outside the courthouse in Redwood City by agreeing not to bid against each other, according to the Department of Justice.
Troy Kent of San Mateo, Henry Pesah of Burlingame, James Doherty of Hillsborough and Laith Salma of San Francisco, were among eight Northern California real estate investors who pleaded guilty for their roles in two separate conspiracies between November 2008 and January 2011.
The men agreed not to bid against each other for foreclosed properties auctioned off outside the county courthouse in Redwood City and in San Francisco County. Instead, they kept the winning price low which, in turn, federal prosecutors say, damaged the real estate market and defrauded those expecting a fair marketplace.
When property is auctioned, the proceeds pay off the mortgage and debt with any remaining money going to the homeowner. Squelching competitive bids limits how much money is available for both.
The men used the U.S. mail and Federal Express to send the Trustee’s Deeds Upon Sale and other title documents to others in the conspiracy, leading to the mail fraud charges.
For their roles, the investors face up to a decade in federal prison for violating the antitrust law known as the Sherman Act and up to 30 years for conspiring to commit mail fraud, the DOJ announced yesterday.
“The collusion taking place at these auctions allowed the conspirators to line their pockets with funds that otherwise would have gone to lenders and, at times, financially distressed homeowners,” said Sharis Pozen, acting assistant attorney general in charge of the DOJ’s antitrust division, in announcing the pleas.
I guess the Sherman Act is just used against the little people nowadays.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
You can only catch the little people. Everyone else knows they will get their butts sued off for violating their non-disclosure agreements if they talk.
“We don’t pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes.”
-Billionairess Leona Helmsley
Justice grants immunity for Mob canaries all the time. Can Justice do something similar for whistleblowers? Pay damages or find a job for the snitch? Or is that only for criminal witness and not civil contract law?
Whistleblowers are protect by law from recimination, but that doesn’t stop it from happening nonetheless.
Often, the organization in question will do its best to frame or intimidate the whistlerblower by any means possible.
Depends on the whistle blower statute, I suppose, but when people sign a non-disclosure agreement they are voluntarily accepting a defined punishement for their future actions. Whistle blowing statutes wouldn’t normally interfere with a freely consented to contractual obligation of the person who told as far as I know.
And even if the terms of the statute included breaking those contracted to obligations, you have to be sure that in a law suit you would win, that your exact statements would be considered whistle blowing, that you know enough of what was going on to be know that what is happening is actually illegal as opposed to just evil, that the prosecutors will be able to prove that what you say happened, actually did happen. And you have to do all this while paying a lawyer to fight a “deep pockets” player.
It is too much risk for most people. They already know that the leadership in their company is willing to break the law for profit. Why not do everything in their power to hurt the snitch?
Oh, and Oxide, immunity is from criminal prosecution. Not enforcement of private contracts.
How can a NDA be used to prevent people from reporting illegal activity?
Maybe I’ll go have the staff at my local bank branch sign NDAs, then I’ll rob the place.
The info is probably protected under “trade secret.” /s
The staff at your bank won’t sign them for you. They don’t care enough about keeping your business. People are willing to sign them to get jobs, however.
Polly, I think Fixer wants to be the bank manager in this scenario. Make his minion tellers sign the NDA, then go in take the cash himself.
Do nondisclosure agreements apply to criminal acts. What about subpoenas?
Did they stop others from bidding?
If not then bid rigging might be a tough sell to a jury.
I’m guessing that the fact they conspired to determine who would bid on each property is what makes it illegal.
Hey Bill…..
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Realtors Are Liars®
Bid rigging includes collusion.
I don’t bid against my wife on ebay. Is that illegal too?
My understanding there was another ring at a different No Cal courthouse, where the group held a second auction after the first auction amongst themselves, and split the profit among the group.
So, 5 guys purposefully don’t compete with each other to buy a house for, say, $100,000, and then hold a second auction shortly thereafter and, let’s say the highest price they were willing to pay was $120,000. The one guy pays $120,000, and the 4 non-participants each get $5k.
Had they wanted to do this legally, I suppose they could have simply formed a partnership, and only bid as one enterprise. They could still buy the house for $100k, and still split the profits when they sold it to the final homeowner.
I think this was the first one completed. The various investigations continue. I met one of the guys several years ago that I now understand to be under investigation…it sounded like a good-old-boys network then…it wouldn’t surprise me if these kinds of things happened.
Funny how the banks can conspire to rig auctions all they want, with their unstated reserves, their shadow inventories, and their undisclosed (but known) defects. But if a regular Joe even thinks about cooperating with one of the other regular Joes, well, then, THAT’S a crime.
When the legal system becomes corrupt revolution happens.
Translated from Der Spiegel: Still, that’s nothing compared to the trend in executives’ salaries. In 1980, American CEOs earned 42 times more than the average employee. Today, that figure has skyrocketed to more than 300 times. Last year, 25 of the country’s highest-paid CEOs earned more than their companies paid in taxes.
By way of comparison, top executives at the 30 blue-chip companies making up Germany’s DAX stock market index rarely earn over 100 times the salaries of their low-level employees, and that figure is often around 30 or 40 times.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,793896-2,00.html
Those ‘job creator’ CEOs need more tax cuts. Everyone knows their high salaries are what’s necessary to attract and retain talent.
It’s the Lucky Ducky $500/week crowd that are dragging this country down.
Bloomberg: Americans ‘Hooked’ on Government Benefits
“A record 49 percent of Americans live in a household where someone receives at least one type of government benefit, according to the US Census Bureau. And 63 percent of all federal spending this year will consist of checks written to individuals for which the government receives currently no services.
The number of Americans receiving food stamps alone is up 72 percent over the past five years, to a record 45.3 million. Their annual cost, projected this year to reach $80 billion, tops the yearly budgets of most federal agencies.
A Bloomberg News - Washington Post poll earlier this month found that more than four-fifths of Americans opposed reducing Social Security or Medicare benefits. A similar share said they didn’t want taxes increased on the middle class either, though they favored raising them on wealthy people.”
“more than four-fifths of Americans opposed reducing Social Security or Medicare benefits. A similar share said they didn’t want taxes increased on the middle class either, though they favored raising them on wealthy people.”
By jove, I think they’ve got it. You can’t fool most of the people, all of the time.
“more than four-fifths of Americans opposed reducing Social Security or Medicare benefits
$ocial $ecurity is a Gov’t $ponsored “Ponzi-$cheme” = lost votes in the lower 48 + Hawaii.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
Dude, that’s enough people to pass a new Constitutional amendment. It should be enough to change the friggin’ tax structure, already.
Unless your representative system is more representative of big money than big majorities of people.
Fast swirlings turds in the bowl
China is in steep ascent for a hard landing while the Euro zone is having a hard time to find suckers to buy its toxic waste. First Europe, the lastest Italien bond auction wasn’t too successful. The bailout fund (EFSF) and the ECB remain the largest buyers of PIIGS treasuries. In a desperate attempt the chefs of this toxic brew are try to peddle their spoiled wares to Russia, China and Japan. China demands far reaching political concessions, Russia pledged 10 billion towards a problem reaching into the trillions and Japan said it would happily print whatever amount of Yen is needed to buy Euro denominated treasuries in an attempt to drive down its own currency.
In China the real estate bubble has reached maximum expansion and is showing first signs of a reversal with all its nasty implications. The key is the gigantic misalocation for resources. China build a bunch of housing that is out of reach for the average Chinese at a rate of 20-40 yearly salaries for an average apartment. A large part of these units are being sold back and forth between investors without ever reaching the consumer, ie. the person that can afford to buy a unit and live in it. A huge amount of natural resources and labor has been allocated to these projects. Many are build in a hurry and of marginal quality (do the Chinese use Chinese drywall?). Many of these will never reach the consumer but remain a monument to misalocated economic resources. To top it off, if China manages to misalocate 9% more resources than last year it is considered something to brag about by its leadership. Just as a reminder, in the 1960s and 70s the Soviet Union also had higher economic growth than the West. In the end there was little to show for all that economic growth.
Is the Chinese real estate market decoupled from the U.S. real estate market, the same way the Chinese stock market is decoupled?
Decoupled from reality, they are.
According to HGTV, foreigners are required to have 40% down on house loans in China. In addition, they must obtain a permit to purchase a house.
ISTR hearing that, in Mexico, foreigners can’t own property. They can purchase the equivalent of a long-term lease on the land, but that’s it.
Feel free to correct me on this point.
That’s what it’s like in China too, only for everyone, not just foreigners. There is no such thing as home ownership under communism. The government owns all property.
Hey, you’re not allowed to say anything about China, you …PERSON, you. Don’t you know they are our biggest trading partner? Chinese people are smart, and their government really knows how to keep people in control. So don’t start, Mike. Don’t even start.
Let`s play Obama says.
Obama says, you get help if you`re 3 months behind on your mortgage.
Obama says, buy a house and you get $10,000.
Obama says, if you are current on your payments you get help no matter how far underwater you are.
If you are a renter and you didn`t fall for any of this BS you get to buy a decent house in a decent neighborhood at a price that is not artificially inflated. Bzzzzzzzzzz! You`re out, Obama didn`t say.
Well, you could have paid $30,000 extra for a house and gotten $10,000 from the government if you wanted to.
“Well, you could have paid $30,000 extra for a house and gotten $10,000 from the government if you wanted to.”
I know of several that are down $100k since they took the $10k bait.
Good.
When will people wake up and realize these incentivizations are really hooks that ensnare?
Our markets are getting so screwed up, it’s best just staying out of them.
In 2010 there were plenty of suckers that were “snapping up” properties in my n’hood. Any deal, no matter how ridiculous, just to get the oh so sweet stimulus money. Now properties have lost about 20% since the deal expired and we’re back to early 2009 valuations when panic ruled the market. On the average house where I live that’s a drop of about $40-50K. A hell of a price to pay for $7500. But supposedly there’s a sucker born every minute which seems to be a very conservative estimate judging from what I have seen.
Can’t argue those facts. Because they’re true.
What does obama say if I have a shaky “green energy” business but I donate lots of campaign cash to his re-election?
The same thing any Republicrat says: show me the money.
Oh poor me
its Underwater
now its free
’cause I’m a squatter
Realtors Are Liars®
How does this developing story square with the RNC’s conservative Christian agenda? Perhaps cognitive disconnect can work to keep Citizen Cain in the running.
You would think even marginally competent political hacks would do a background check before grooming a candidate.
The Herman Cain harassment story: How bad is it for him?
Posted by Chris Cillizza and Aaron Blake at 07:25 AM ET, 10/31/2011
Allegations that businessman Herman Cain was accused of inappropriate behavior toward co-workers on two occasions in the 1990s threaten to derail a presidential campaign that had propelled the former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza from afterthought to frontrunner.
…
Ahh yes…. Another “Family Values” candidate. Family Values for you peons, and a swingin’ good time all the time for us who preach Family Values.
Hypocrites.
The accused is a Republican? Guilty as charged!
Nah… that standard only applies to Democrats who get caught with their pants down.
I have a tough time keeping score on this.
Is this worse than clinton’s having sex with an intern in his office, lying about under oath and being accused of rape?
“Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find.” — James Carville, after Paula Jones made a sexual harassment allegation against Bill Clinton.
It will be interesting to compare/contrast the double standards about to be displayed in the next few days…
What is worse than violating the very “values” you’re harping on others for? I don’t recall Willy out there harping on “family values”. Ever.
It’s a distinction called hypocrisy
The best production I saw of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof was at a junior high school. They couldn’t spend a lot on costumes; the kid who played Big Daddy stuffed a pillow under his shirt that kept falling out during the performance, but they really had the spirit of play.
oops, “of the play.”
Pretty racy stuff for junior high.
“Is this worse than clinton’s having sex with an intern in his office…”
Yes, because the presidential candidates in Clinton’s party don’t play the ‘holier than thou’ one-upmanship game.
“the presidential candidates in Clinton’s party don’t play the ‘holier than thou’ one-upmanship game.”
Well, not when it comes to sex. But they’re pretty good at being “holier than thou” when it comes to other social issues, like duhversity, mainstreaming perversion and spreading everyone else’s wealth around.
Or the biggest one of all these days, “being green.”
Being green is a little different than abusing your employees and coworkers with unwanted and disgusting harassment. Not to mention then giving holier than thou values speeches.
‘…they’re pretty good at being “holier than thou” when it comes to other social issues…’
Fair enough, and I totally agree…don’t forget ‘global warming is real’ orthodoxy!
“the presidential candidates in Clinton’s party don’t play the ‘holier than thou’ one-upmanship game.”
Maybe not, but Democrats sure cheat like hell on their taxes while telling me that I’m not paying nearly enough.
Sexually harassing people who don’t want to be harassed as part of a power trip is MUCH worse than having consensual sex with a 25 year old who waved her butt in your face to get your attention.
Don’t even compare the two.
Sexually harassing people who don’t want to be harassed as part of a power trip is MUCH worse than having consensual sex with a 25 year old who waved her butt in your face to get your attention.
If a CEO or a General has sex with an intern or a private - it is not “consensual”
It is about power.
And the CEO or General would be in jail and certainly out of a job.
If a CEO or a General has sex with an intern or a private - it is not “consensual”
It is about power.
And the CEO or General would be in jail and certainly out of a job.
Would that such a thing were true.
Anyone else here been sexually harassed at work? Well, I have, and let me tell you, it wasn’t fun. Not in the slightest.
Nor was it about romance, I can tell you that. It was about a man exerting power over a woman. Nothing more, nothing less.
And the boss who looked the other way while it happened? Absolutely nothing happened to him. Not one thing.
Nor was it about romance, I can tell you that. It was about a man exerting power over a woman. Nothing more, nothing less.”
I started working in 1980 and this was very common in the areospace industry back then.
were I work now I just don’t see it anymore maybe its because the old guys are gone now I’m the old guy
plus I’m out of Aerospace
Sexual harrassment suits were the goin’ thing back in the 90s, after the Clarence Thomas hearing.
Any woman who worked in corporate America in the 1980’s knows that Anita Hill was speaking the gods’ truth.
Yes, AZ. Unwanted sexual attentions were a way of life for most of us. But then, so were unscrupulous little sluts….
No banana, it’s not. I wasn’t politically aware when the whole thing happened, but in hindsight, perhaps it would have been better for Clinton to resign rather than to commit perjury.
(not the least of reasons for this IMO is that a Gore incumbancy would likely have kept him in office rather than Bush being elected.)
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, ideals, thoughts, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have.[1] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
Hypocrisy is what realtors are when they claim they champion “homeownership” as they simultaneously drive prices up to unaffordable levels.
Realtors Are Hypocrites®
Hypocrisy is not as illegal as perjury. In a way, I’m surprised that Clinton didn’t just tell the whole sordid tale and be done with it. Not like anyone except the political blowhards would have noticed. They too busy snapping up dot com IPOs and constructing pretentious looking office buildings.
In a way, I’m surprised that Clinton didn’t just tell the whole sordid tale and be done with it.
In hindsight I’m sure we wishes he had.
Not like anyone except the political blowhards would have noticed.
The religious conservatives were going to take big notice regardless of how he handled it. The big lie and finger shake just added insult to injury. And led directly to the situation where it would have been better…even for his friends…if he’d resigned.
Neither one of those guys was accused of rape, was he?
Prof Bear’s point is that you are not supposed to choose candidates who have a history of accusations or questionable behavior. Not for President.
Big V…. how many rock stars are accused of rape? or sports starts or politicians…? they are few and far between….
Women can be just as slutty as men……not wearing underwear in a limo aka Paris Hilton …how many panties or hotel keys were thrown on stage at a Tom Jones concert?
inappropriate comments could mean anything and yet mean nothing.
I wonder how many of these women who always seem to find a way to get comments directed at them or harassed took women studies in college?
October surprize. With extra cheese.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196819
Bernanke, Geithner & Co. direlect in their duty.
“Bernanke, Geithner & Co. direlect in their duty.”
Derelict? They’ve given their allegiance to another country.
AMHERST
Law firm says party was ‘poor taste’
By Matt Glynn
NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Published:October 30, 2011, 12:00 AM
Updated: October 30, 2011, 6:25 AM
An Amherst law firm that specializes in foreclosures apologized Saturday for just-published photos of costumes worn by employees at a 2010 office Halloween party that were criticized as insensitive toward people who were losing their homes.
Photos of the party ran online with a New York Times column about Steven J. Baum PC, the state’s largest foreclosure law firm. The firm has previously drawn fire for its business practices and is under investigation by the state Attorney General’s Office.
The Times quoted an unidentified ex-Baum employee who emailed columnist Joe Nocera the photos and descriptions of last year’s office Halloween party. Photos posted online included people dressed to look homeless, with one of them holding a sign with a foreclosure-related message; a corner of the office decorated like foreclosed homes; and a sign reading “Baum Estates.”
…
From Comments to that article:
“What do you call 100 debt collection workers on the bottom of lake erie?
A good start………….”
Looks like Lake Erie just got insulted bigtime.
Lake Erie is used to being insulted by toxic waste. The industrial kind.
LET THEM EAT CAKE!
Terms for Proposed Foreclosure Fraud Settlement Shock the Conscience
By: David Dayen Sunday October 30, 2011 9:43 am
I’ve ignored the past few breathless reports about an imminent settlement by state Attorneys General and the big banks over foreclosure fraud, because we’ve been hearing the same talk about a settlement for over a year now, and because several states have already dropped out of the talks. But that doesn’t mean a bad settlement with the remaining states may not be inked, one that would indemnify the banks from state-level prosecution for a series of crimes at practically all stages of the mortgage process, in exchange for a relative pittance. Gretchen Morgenson puts more meat on the bones of what’s actually being offered as far as the bank side is concerned, and they would really get off with nary a scratch. Let’s go through it:
$5 billion, at most, spread over a dozen banks, doesn’t even rise to the level of a bee sting.
…
“if you thought this was the deal that would hold banks accountable for filing phony documents in courts, foreclosing without showing they had the legal right to do so and generally running roughshod over anyone who opposed them, you are likely to be disappointed”
That will come as a relief to many here, apparently, who just want the ‘deadbeats out’, no matter what laws and rights we have to trample over to do so.
“The rest — an estimated $20 billion — would consist of credits to banks that agree to reduce a predetermined dollar amount of principal owed on mortgages that they own or service for private investors.”
Yet another example that it is the servicers aka the banksters, and not the owners of the mortgages, who have effective control, and who decide whether or not to let the ‘deadbeats’ remain in a house without paying.
The $5 billion is in cash, the rest in cramdowns. I guess those cramsdown still count as money on the balance sheet, but will likely be written off.* My IMO:
1. I used to advocate for cramdowns, but even in my most bleeding-heart liberal phrasing, I demanded an FB BK in return for the cramdown, because FB’s still carry some blame. This deal would reward FB’s with no punishment at all.
2. I think this that this deal just offers a way for banks to use a cramdown as a way to effectively buy clear title. No free house for the feisty nurses!
————-
*It wouldn’t surprise me if the banks are pleading for phantom cramdowns on the books now, anything to get the AG’s and the feisty nurses off their backs, anything to avoid spending real cash. Later on, banks can bribe the government to allow then to use fancy accounting, or discount window, or QE, or a future bailout as a way to write that $20 billion in paper cramdown losses off to nothing; i.e. *poof*. Call me cynical, but years of reading about these practices does that the someone.
Wow, what a surprise.
You thought the Military Industrial Political Complex (MI-PC) was well embedded.
The FIRE-PC dwarfs it.
Look at opensecrets for donation levels to politicians. More donations = more control.
Realizing there is a FIRE-PC lets one realize that lobbyists for the FIRE sector craft the laws. Expecting them to police themselves leads to outcomes like this - lots of sound and fury, no real change in the system.
The Market Is Booming…(?)
But Where Are The Buyers???
Inventory Is Looming
Realtors Are Liars®
This is a rebroadcast of a previously aired blatant rip off of a famous groups song.
The Eagles
Take it to the limit
All alone at the end of the evening
And the bright lights have faded to blue
I signed for Three-Hundred and sixty payments
But I only made two
You know I’ve always been a Deadbeat
(spent my life running ’round)
And it’s so hard to change
(Can’t seem to settle down)
But the dreams I’ve seen lately
Keep on turning out and burning out
And turning out the same
So put me on a Home Affordable Refinance Program, which is opened to underwater borrowers regardless of how deep their property values have sunk
Show me where to sign
And take it to the limit one more time
You can spend all your time making money
You can stiff all the people you owe
If it all fell to pieces tomorrow
I`d have no place to go
So when you’re looking for your free ride
(Nobody seems to care)
And you can’t find the last mortgage payment you made 3 years ago
(Can’t find it anywhere)
When there’s nothing to believe in
Still you’re coming back, you’re running back,
your come’n back for more
So put me on a Home Affordable Refinance Program, which is opened to underwater borrowers regardless of how deep their property values have sunk
Show me where to sign
And take it to the limit one more time
Take it to the limit
Take it to the limit
Take it to the limit one more time
True Genius! Love that song. Brilliant conversion.
How many instruments do you play??
Today’s Houses:
House 1: standard rambler, but it’s got a cutie-patootie look to it.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4711-Coachway-Dr-Rockville-MD-20852/37093218_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}
1953 4/2 mattress house (bedrooms in basement) on 0.2 acres in a location almost walkable to Metro. Has a cutie patootie look to it, but full of junk. Back yard too shady for me, but that’s just my taste. A/C on the fritz. Sold as-is; short sale.
Dec 2002: Zestimated at $261K
Jan 2006: Sold $443K
Oct 2011: Listed $275K
For the location, the price is probably not too bad if it were move-in condition, but it’s too much to pay for an as-is short sale. The price feels as if I would be propping up the bank.
House 2: Actually not a bad deal
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/14114-Arctic-Ave-Rockville-MD-20853/37314457_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address}
1968 4/3 nice rambler on 0.6 of an acre. Looks well-maintained, out-of-date but functional kitchen. Lots of junk in the house. It looks like a lot of land, but the back yard drops off into woods and down to a stream (there’s a high deck), so the land can’t be used for much.
Dec 1986: Sold $166K
Sep 2001: Zestimated $243K
Aug 2005: Sold $482K
Jun 2011: Listed $368K
Oct 2011: Listed $280K
Looks like somebody’s gonna take a bath on it.
For those in flyover country, I realize these look like high prices. This is why I post the Zestimates from pre-bubble 2001 and older sale prices. Prices in this area have always been high. It’s just a matter of finding the least price inflation.
Drove by this house today:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4010-Simms-Dr-Kensington-MD-20895/37302081_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address}
I actually thought it was half way decent. The neighborhood is quiet and tucked away from the main roads, but its a typical boomer “Lets live in the house for 30 years, not do a single update, move to Florida and pass the problems off to someone else” type house.
When I asked my agent about it last week he said that the listing agent was “a complete ass” and the most difficult agent he has ever worked with. I asked about putting in a lowball off since it has been sitting for 500 plus DOM and needed some work, but he said since the listing agent unexplicably raised the price almost 40K in a down market that he was essentially clueless. Oh well, let it sit and rot.
Both WAY overpriced.
What would you consider a fair price for these homes? Please don’t say $70K. Just looking at the pre-bubble Zestimates says that these houses would never sell for under $200K.
Not 70k, but 200k is overpriced as well.
Ya know Oxy….. I really like you and always have. But I’ve got to say…. The Housing Crime Syndicate has you trained like a lap dog.
First one is cutie-patootie? Looks like a bunker currently being used as a flophouse. Too many beds are squeezed into each bedroom. That place would need to be gutted and fumigated to be liveable.
I find the second one much, uh, cuter-patootier. Looks like someone is maintaining it well so you can maybe expect the rest of the neighborhood is similar, nice deck, very functional kitchen design (current refrigerator has wrong door for it), and has a front entryway that doesn’t open directly into the living room, unlike the first house. All the rooms look nicer than in the other house.
It’s no 2Boob though.
Most of these houses i post are indeed flophouses, likely for undocumented workers who cashed in on the construction boom. But unless I want to spend $150K more, or drive 45 minutes to work, or live in attached product, these are my options.
I feel your pain. All the more reason to prefer the second one, which apparently wasn’t used as flophouse, which also implies it’s not in a neighborhood conducive to flophouses.
Would you want to be the single owner of a house in a neighborhood of flophouses? I sure wouldn’t. And the wear and tear on a house housing a dozen illegal construction workers would be immense.
I say flophouse = no sale, especially if there are affordable alternatives, like the second house. IMHO
Suicide by house. $300/ft2 for a dumpy ranch?
Yeah, I feel the same way, but I’m told to suspend my disbelief, because I live in Flyover.
Flyover’s looking better and better.
I’m not asking you to suspend your disbelief. I’m asking you to look at the zestimates and sale prices from 2001 or so (pre-bubble), and use those prices as a starting point, instead of using flyover prices.
I’m no stranger to Flyover — I’ve lived in flyover for a good part of my adult life, and I found that I prefer flyover. But I also found that there are few secure jobs (for me, anyway) in flyover. I will move to the job and then look for a house. I will not move to a house and then look for a job.
Blue, the $300/sq foot is skewed. For this house, Zillow is using the original square footage (936) from when the house was built. But since then, somebody added 1 (or even 2) bedrooms and a full bath to the basement. So now, there’s probably 1600 or so sq ft of living space, which would make the house $172/sq ft. I’ve seen for this for almost every tiny flop house on Zillow.
I know that seems high, but you are underestimating the value of:
1. living where there are secure jobs.
2. having 0.2 acre in a metro area which is rife with condos and townhomes.
3. walking distance to Metro.
2001 or so (pre-bubble)
Is Colorado the only place that was done bubbling by 2001 and has just been trying to hang onto the gains ever since?
I’m just saying, if you can afford it, go 2Boob or the like. That looks like where the bargains are (such as they are), to my non-local eye.
Do you really want a house where every time you open the front door, you see a bunch of guys spilling out of the flophouse across the street?
Otherwise, keep renting. Better the devil you know…
The price feels as if I would be propping up the bank.
You probably are.
Geez i thought i lived like a slob…at least i can lay out on the living room floor and read the newspaper….
Here on the Left Coast we have few, if any, walk out basements.
What constitutes a “mattress house”?
I have ideas.
This is the reason our country is doomed to fail. Our politicians adn judges have been purchased.
The Occupy Wall Street movement is shining a spotlight on how much influence big-money interests have with the White House and Congress. But people are not talking about how big money is also increasingly getting its way with the courts, which is too bad. It’s a scandal that needs more attention. A blistering new report details how big business and corporate lobbyists are pouring money into state judicial elections across the country and packing the courts with judges who put special interests ahead of the public interest.
A case in point: West Virginia. In 2007, the West Virginia Supreme Court, on a 3-2 vote, threw out a $50 million damage award against the owner of a coal company. Funny thing: the man who would have had to pay the $50 million had spent $3 million to help elect the justice who cast the deciding vote. The West Virginia ruling was so outrageous that in 2009 the United States Supreme Court overturned it. But that was unusual. In most cases, judges are free to decide cases involving individuals and groups that have paid big money to get them elected.
So who is paying? The new study — by New York University Law School’s Brennan Center for Justice, the National Institute on Money in State Politics, and the Justice at Stake Campaign, a non-partisan reform group — found that a small group of super spenders plays the biggest role, using their money to buy the kind of judges they want hearing their cases. These super spenders are the usual suspects: mainly big business, corporate lobbyists, and trial lawyers. Also high on the list: a disturbing category called “unknown.” In many states, disclosure laws are so weak that special interests can buy judicial elections without the public even finding
yahoo.com/judges-sale-special-interests-buying-100500006.html
Remember people the elite earn their money and shouldn’t be taxed.
The more the financial elite control the easier it is for them to get their way. Destroy unions and make the middle class poorer and you get more and more control by the elite. The facts speak for themselves. The repeal of Glass Steagle, TARP, toothless SEC and other regulatory bodies, and their control of the courts.
Destroy unions and make the middle class poorer and you get more and more control by the elite.
sigh…
If you don’t think unions (especially pubic unions) are not heavy hitters in state judicial elections - you have your blinders on…
1. The decline of the middle class seems to mirror the decline of unions.
2. Unions have been crushed, they have fewer members and less cash. Corporate CEO’s and the top 0.1% control/own a record percentage of the US income and wealth.
3. When workers make more higher taxes are collected and the economy is stimulated as workers buy goods and services. When the top 0.1% gain more they continue to move jobs to china and squirl it away during deflation. Read the Massey coal case and then point out a similar case where the majority of a judges funding came from a union and as a result of it a major decision from a lower court was overturned. Then get back to us.
1. The decline of the middle class seems to mirror the decline of unions.
Wrong - public unions are growing by leaps and bounds.
2. Unions have been crushed, they have fewer members and less cash. Corporate CEO’s and the top 0.1% control/own a record percentage of the US income and wealth.
Wrong - public unions are growing, have more members and have more cash. Unions, in general, are 8 out of the top 10 money donors to political campaigns (with 99% of the money going to democrats). Public union employees make at least double their private sector counterparts.
3. When workers make more higher taxes are collected and the economy is stimulated as workers buy goods and services. When the top 0.1% gain more they continue to move jobs to china and squirl it away during deflation. Read the Massey coal case and then point out a similar case where the majority of a judges funding came from a union and as a result of it a major decision from a lower court was overturned. Then get back to us.
You somehow think that firefighters making $200,000 per year is good for the economy. Every dollar that goes towards the public unions is a dollar taken out of the economy. Government TAKING money from some and giving it other DOES NOT STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.
Here is how the process works. Public unions (and many private unions) are “closed shops” meaning you are FORCED to join the union as a condition of employment. Union dues are taken out of your paycheck before you get your money and WITHOUT your consent. Unions are the top 8/10 money contributors to political campaigns and give 99% of their money to democrats. These democrats get elected and give sweetheart deals to the unions that elected them with taxpayer money. Public unions are a huge kick scheme for democrats.
Public unions are a huge kick scheme for democrats.
And to think that my mother, a member of the teacher’s union, is a lifelong Republican.
“Public union employees make at least double their private sector counterparts.”
Not at the Federal level they don’t.
“Government TAKING money from some and giving it other DOES NOT STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.”
I agree. Let’s tax the rich and the corporations what they should be taxed.
(What’s gotten into you today, banana? You’re not usually this partisan. Then again, I’ve had partisan days myself, so c’est la vie.)
2b
I’m not oblivious to the problems public unions may produce, but they are in not responsible for the collapse of the world economy. They are one of the last voices for the working class in this country which has been destroyed by the elite via free trade outsourcing tax policy the medical system, market manipulation, privitizing the gains socializing the losses, fraud, you name it. There is no argueing that the elite have gotten richer at the expense of the once thriving middle class in this country.
Nannerz,
Are you seriously arguing that police, fire, and prison guard unions
largely support Democratic candidates over Republican ones?
And where might this be?
In 2010, the union membership rate–the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union–was 11.9 percent, down from 12.3 percent a year earlier, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of wage and salary workers be-
longing to unions declined by 612,000 to 14.7 million. In 1983, the first year for
which comparable union data are available, the union membership rate was 20.1 per-
cent, and there were 17.7 million union workers.
Sure doesn’t sound like they are winning to me. Percentage of workers who are unionized at 30 year low.
Earnings
In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual
weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median
weekly earnings of $717. (See table 2.) In addition to coverage by a collective bar-
gaining agreement, the difference reflects a variety of influences including varia-
tions in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, in-
dustry, firm size, or geographic region.
Sure doesn’t sound like most are pulling in 200k a year.
Donations
Reported contributions by unions’ political committees — traditionally bastions of support for Democrats — were down 40 percent for the first quarter of 2011 compared with two years earlier, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks campaign finance.
Sure doesn’t sound like they are influencing politics like they used to.
and from teh NYT
The number of American workers in unions declined sharply last year, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday, with the percentage slipping to 11.9 percent, the lowest rate in more than 70 years.
The report found that the number of workers in unions fell by 612,000 last year to 14.7 million, an even larger decrease than the overall 417,000 decline in the total number of Americans working.
“It was a very tough year for unionized workers,” said John Schmitt, a senior economist with the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. “We’re seeing declines in the private sector, and we’re seeing declines in the public sector.”
The number of private sector workers in unions fell by 339,000, to 7.1 million, while the number of public sector union members fell by 273,000, to 7.6 million.
So public sector union membership and clout are falling as well.
Which begs the question, why are you on here posting about this BS day in and day out? To distract the feeble minded from the real problem this country faces?
why are you on here posting about this BS day in and day out?
Because on the WSJ or MarketWatch article reader comments he’d be just another voice in the choir…
I want to know exactly who these super spenders are. I want addresses.
Riyadh, Cayman Islands, Tel Aviv?
Upcoming documentary about the housing bubble in .au:
http://realestate4ransom.com/
Another bet goes wrong
US brokerage firm MF Global has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after revealing £4bn of eurozone debt exposure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15519124
Mean while the beat goes on
Greece will hold a referendum on a new European Union aid package intended to resolve the country’s debt crisis, Prime Minister George Papandreou says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15526719
The global economy is on the verge of a new and deeper jobs recession that may ignite social unrest, the International Labour Organization (ILO) has warned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15519699
From a personal perspective I hadn’t realised we had left the last recession.
Another BET goes wrong:
Kardashian files for divorce after 10 weeks
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/report-kim-kardashian-to-file-for-divorce-from-kris-humphries-20113110
That guy looks like a dork.
Ya gotta wonder if that guy can even change the car’s motor oil.
Why? because the problem is demand not supply.
There is no demand because workers have been reduced more adn more to working for food and shelter so that the elite can strip mine productivity gains and wealth.
Tax cuts for the elite won’t fix it.
Deregulation won’t fix it.
Getting rid of all unions won’t fix it.
The titanic is taking on water and 2 banana is arguing that the elite don’t have enough caviar and the poor have been running around on the lido deck without paying first.
I think we need to just.ignore the yellow monster.
Today MF Global crashes.
Jon Corzine gets million dollar parachute.
Noted CNBC cult hero and commodities trader ‘Wolfman’ looks like he’s out of a job.
Rick Santelli is outraged that some of the traders lost their ass when the exchange locked them out of the trading floor.
I was laughing my ass off!! These are some of the same guys that were throwing “We.are.the.1%” leaflets out of the Chicago Exchange down onto the Occupy Wall St. protesters.
Let em’ burn…
“These are some of the same guys that were
throwing “We.are.the.1%” leaflets out of the Chicago Exchange down onto the Occupy Wall St. protesters.”
Instant Karma
Suspect this is a elite fish taking his pound of flesh from the merely top 1%. AS the pool of people with money shrinks more adn more people who considered themselves elite will find they are fish food like the rest of us for the real power players.
Just goes to show that a person’s wealth is not necessarily related to their intelligence. They had it all, but were still too stupid to keep it.
Big News! Greece to vote on bailout.
frankie already provided a link above. This is most likely to kill the deal reached last week and trigger a credit event.
So the last rescue of the Euro lastest 8 days, wow! Tomorrow we’re back in crisis mode.
My guess is Papandreou (and/or several of his cronies) bought CDS and is now upset about not being able to cash in. This will certainly trigger the greek CDS with the epicenters being Wall Street and London. This could get interesting…
His party is falling apart, he hasn’t got the votes and no other political party wants to join him in committing political suicide. So it’s time to blackmail the electorate; if you don’t vote for this, bad things will happen. Devil or the deep blue sea time for Greece.
There is no way to squeeze water out of a stone, not even with today’s advanced technologies. Darn.
Sure there is. Just pull yourself up by your iSqueeze water app.
“So the last rescue of the Euro lastest 8 days, wow!”
Beginning to resemble an Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire deal.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/world/europe/greece-to-hold-referendum-on-new-debt-deal.html
Not a binding vote, more of a political maneuver, based on this NYT article.
The Rise and Fall of the Super Rich….
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daniel-gross/rags-riches-back-rags-meet-high-beta-rich-164920730.html
Most of those with millions and even many with 10’s of millions are not the super rich we need to worry about. Many got rich off the giant credit bubble with out understanding what was going on, others understood and gambled correctly on when the bubble would burst. The ones we need to worry about control the flow of information the legislation of governments and the wars we fight the flow of energy the flow of money etc. These people use million dollar bills to wipe their A##. They control 100’s of millions and more than that they control markets and governments and the flow of information.
Many of these millionaires will find that the vampire squid will drain their blood just as it has drained the blood from the middle class.
Best costume of the night so far:
“Occupy Halloween”
(Friend of the family was wearing a sandwich board with lots of mock-OWS slogans on both sides…e.g. “I’m here because I missed Woodstock”)
October 31, 2011 12:05 PM
Herman Cain: I “never sexually harassed anyone”
By Brian Montopoli
Updated 6:17 p.m. Eastern Time
White House hopeful Herman Cain sought to calm the furor surrounding allegations he had inappropriate interactions more than a decade ago with two female employees who were later paid not to discuss their charges in public, repeatedly declaring that he “never sexually harassed anyone” and calling the allegations “baseless.”
“I’ve never sexually harassed anyone, and yes, I was falsely accused while I was at the National Restaurant Association,” he said on Fox News.
“It is totally baseless, and totally false, never have I committed any sort of sexual harassment,” he added.
Cain was asked if he has ever had to settle a sexual harassment or sexual misconduct claim, false or otherwise.
“Outside of the Restaurant Association, absolutely not,” he said. “If the Restaurant Association did a settlement, I am not - I wasn’t even aware of it and I hope it wasn’t for much, because nothing happened. So if there was a settlement, it was handled by some of the other officers that worked for me at the Association. So the answer is absolutely not.”
…