Bits Bucket for November 4, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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It’s shaping up to be another “risk on” rally day on Wall Street.
Risk Rally as Greek Referendum is Canceled
November 04, 2011 9:56 AM CET
Risk appetite has broadly improved in Asian trading as the recent headlines and often time contradictory statements suggest that December’s Greek referendum is now off the table. Despite an intensifying political crisis in Greece, Asia followed the US higher, as the Nikkei climbing 1.86%, Hang Seng 3.40% and Shanghai a timid 0.45%.
…
Is it pretty easy for governments to ditch a referendum, once it is proposed?
GLOBAL MARKETS-Stocks, euro rise on hopes Greece ditches referendum
Fri Nov 4, 2011 6:15am EDT
* World stocks rise on hopes Greek referendum is off
* Euro gains versus dollar; copper, crude higher
* Greek confidence vote, U.S. jobs data in focus
By Dominic Lau
LONDON, Nov 4 (Reuters) - World stocks and the euro rose on Friday, boosted by expectations that Greece will avoid a referendum on a new bailout package, easing imminent concerns of a Greek default and its potential shockwaves through the euro zone.
Copper and Brent crude also rose, while prices of safe-haven U.S. Treasuries and German Bunds eased.
…
Stocks/crude/gold rises when democracy is crushed…
And why the Euro-bureaucrats is Brussels HATE elections and referendums.
More like why the Banksters HATE elections and referendums.
You have to give 2banana credit: he’s super precise. But he’s confused accuracy and precision. He just keeps hitting the wrong target over and over, dead center.
Amen. That vote meant screw the banks and g’bye euro. Can’t have mere consumers making such decisions.
Replying to Colo, of course! New slogan for something and/or everything: It’s the banksters, stupid!
“Replying to Colo, of course! New slogan for something and/or everything: It’s the banksters, stupid!”
Who loses if the Greek citizenry votes to default?
It’s interesting to me how this is showing us all exactly who the Greek government is representing/accountable-to/working-for: the Greek people, or the banks.
“The average person is lacks the understanding to make an informed decision on such topics.”
“Probably true, but we still have them serve on juries to decide sophisticated matters of law, engineering and medicine.”
“We can afford travesties on a small scale.”
“But not on a large scale? We elect people to make decisions in our best interests. But they’ve stopped doing that, as we are finding out. They make decisions in the best interests of the highest bidder. What then?”
The referendum was proposed by Papa, but it had to be approved by the Greek national legislature before it could go before all the voters. Apparently the idea did not have majority support in the legislature and it would have failed if brought to a vote.
Next shoe to drop? If the 50 percent haircut on Greek debt goes through, then why not extend the deal to Italy and Portugal?
Stocks soar on Greek referendum news
November 04, 2011 5:09PM
THE Australian share market ended the week on a high note after Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou said plans to put a European financial rescue plan to a referendum may be abandoned.
Global markets also rallied overnight on news of a surprise interest cut by the European Central Bank of a quarter of a percentage point, while stronger commodity prices helped boost the domestic bourse.
The benchmark S&P/ASX200 index was up 109.3 points, or 2.62 per cent, at 4281.1, while the broader All Ordinaries index gained 105 points, or 2.48 per cent, to 4342.5.
On the ASX 24 at 4.44pm, the December share price index futures contract was 102 points higher at 4285, with 33,290 contracts traded.
Mr Papandreou, who faces a confidence vote in Parliament, said he was prepared to drop the referendum on the debt-laden nation’s bailout plan in order to reach a deal with the opposition leader on a national unity government.
IG Markets institutional dealer Chris Weston said it was positive the Greek debt issue was being addressed but the devil was in the detail.
“How are they going to do this?” Mr Weston said.
“Greece has no growth policies out there at all. “It’s all about austerity.
“At what stage do Italy, Portugal and Ireland ask for 50 per cent (debt) write-offs as well?”
Mr Weston said investors had heightened expectations of positive US non-farm payroll figures overnight.
…
At what stage should the United States ask for a 50% debt writeoff?
With a military budget 6 times that of our biggest creditor, I don’t think we’ll exactly be askin’ …
But who else should get in line for a haircut? Student loan FBs (we can call them fooked borrowers who bought into a bubble and have an underwater degree), serial house-gambler FBs, dopes who didn’t read the HBB and bought in 2006, bettors on junk CDOs, the uninsured with unpayable medical debts, the insurers paying out for crazily overpriced med procedures???
Indebted students are hosed, they can’t runaway from their student loans. No BK protection for them! In their case having multiple passports might prove to be useful, as leaving the US behind might be the only way to escape those debts.
FS’s (F’d Students), just need to move to a non-recourse state. Take out a huge loan on a house, use the cash to pay off their student loan, and THEN “walk away”.
I’m not aware of any states where you can take cash out of your house and still have it be considered non-recourse. Purchase money is covered (even refinanced purchased money in AZ), but cash out is always recourse. Now they may not pursue it, but that could happen in any recourse state. Or I guess they could just file BK and be done with any chance of the bank coming after them anyway.
i think we are gambling on the china bubble to pop…then re-negoiate our debt when their economy is on the ropes.
a good ole fashioned “rope-a-dope”…so to speak.
If these haircuts are so easy, why doesn’t everyone just take a haircut, and everything will be just peachy?
“Kodak’s big worry: Running out of cash”
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20111104/BUSINESS/111040362/Kodak-s-big-worry-Running-out-cash
Told ya: Cash rules.
When there is a shortage of cash those with cash get to call the shots.
We all know cash rules. But the paltry amounts of cash we can save are nothing compared to the vast sums of cash held by the 1%.
They’ll ‘call the shots’ and snap up everything of value before Joe6pack (you and me) can ever hope to.
Don’t mistake lack of velocity for lack of cash. They’re two very different things. If you’re thinking your small savings is somehow going to put you in the catbird’s seat as far as buying underpriced assets, you may be in for a long frustrating wait.
But hey, keep hope alive.
“We all know cash rules.”
Yeah? We all know eh? I can tell you don’t read a lot of HBB posts.
Looks like you stumped him, alpha.
+1 for alpha.
Yes, the problems with cash, for most of us, are:
1) collecting a reasonable amount of it;
2) somehow holding on to enough of it in the face of rising rents, food and fuel costs, medical costs, education costs, near zero interest rates, declining wages, etc.
The people, or entities (which are the same now, no?) with the cash calling the shots, unfortunately, have names like Koch, Goldman, JPMorgan, GE, etc., etc.
Have inflation and deflation every existed simultanesouly? So much of our economy was wrapped into housing, which is deflating, but unicorn dollars are sloshing around in other markets.
We’re getting burned on both ends.
Long ago I heard here “deflation in the things you want, inflation in the things you need”. Still seems to describe what we’re seeing to me.
“the paltry amounts of cash we can save are nothing compared to the vast sums of cash held by the 1%.”
The fallacy may be that the top 1% earners are typically intelligent and prudent, risk averse, savers having little leverage in their assets and investments. Deflation will thin their ranks considerably.
When there is a shortage of cash those with cash get to call the shots.
Robber holding gun:“You’re money or your life!”
Jack Benny:(long silent pause)
Robber holding gun:“Hey mister, you’re money or your life!”
Jack Benny: “I’m thinking,… I’m thinking…”
Moral-of-the-story: the root of the evil that is about to be deposited upon you is due to a lack of money, not you, the other guy.
“…nice watch”
Is Kodak relevent to anything these days?
Patent$ for penny’s on the dollar. Wall $t. backdoor $tock i$$uing entrance for a China Gov’t Inc., to name x2
They were way too late to the digital party. Their business model is in selling “consumables”. They were hoping to replace film and paper sales with ink. It didn’t happen. If you’re going to sell cameras you need to be able to charge a premium price or you won’t make any money. Just ask HP.
Same thing happened to them with instant photogrpahy.
Back in the 1970s and 1980s, far too many of the old Fortune 500 companies practically gave away the IP. Oh they got millions for the sale, but missed out on BILLIONs of future sales.
Currents events are nothing new.
There’s an age-old fable on that. Something about eggs.
They’re quite relevant in photo paper, commercial printers and high end cameras (Hollywood movie stuff).
The movie industry is moving toward digitally-based production. Film is on its way out.
As for photo paper, sure, in the printing end. Even good ole digital Slim had to deal with this not so long ago. I’m in a local music photography exhibit. Had to provide prints for hanging on the gallery wall.
Commercial printing? I’m pretty sure that they’re not a major player, as a lot of photo book printing is now done in China. But I could be wrong.
I meant high end digital cameras as well.
I was just pointing out that Kodak is involved in more than just what people typically associate with Kodak, which is disposable cameras, 35mm, etc
World on brink of jobs recession
By Sarah O’Carroll
news.com.au
November 01, 2011 11:11AM
Global unemployment at record high of 200 million
Social unrest on the rise in 40pc of countries
House sales drop in September
World forecast: 40 million job shortage
THE global economy is on the verge of a ‘new and deeper job recession’ that could spark social unrest in dozens of countries - but there is time to avert a crisis, warns the International Labour Organisation (ILO).
With a record high of 200 million people globally out of work, protests such as those seen at the recent worldwide ‘Occupy’ protests could become commonplace unless governments urgently put job creation at the top of their policy agendas.
Raymond Torres, Director of the International Institute for Labour Studies says that governments need to shift their focus from how to save the banks to focusing on job creation.
“It is urgent to shift gears. The window of opportunity for leveraging job creation and income generation is closing, as labour market exclusion is beginning to take hold and social discontent grows.”
In its World of Work Report 2011, the ILO said that only half of the 80 million needed jobs will be created over the next two years and predicts that it will take at least five years for employment in developed countries to return to the levels before the crisis.
The study found that the job situation is the worst among youth and advanced economies where many jobseekers are becoming demoralized and leaving the jobs market altogether.
The report said that after the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008 many corporations kept employees on, expecting the economy to pick up again. But three years on the global economy is a lot more uncertain and companies and governments are less likely to focus on job creation and retention.
…
Cant have this….we need the to spend it on war..oops there’s some job creation especially to all the wounded and maimed soldiers..
unless governments urgently put job creation at the top of their policy agendas.
I always wonder who these people are who say we may be “going into a recession.” Since 2008, I can’t think of anybody I know who hasn’t either been downsized or has been sweating nonstop that he may be next. And if you get the boot, you know for sure, unlike the banks who are only pretending in Europe, that your bottom line will be taking a 50% haircut.
There are certain industries that still feel untouchable and certain retirees who feel their pension situations are rock solid.
40 million worldwide sounds ridiculously low.
They probably count the people in third world nations who sift through land fill sites looking for stuff as fully employed.
The report said that after the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008 many corporations kept employees on
That’s news to me.
I guess it’s heartwarming to hear that everyone is have trouble creating jobs. I suppose that until the masters of the universe accept that
1) employed people == customers
2) well paid employed people == good customers
that we will continue this global death spiral.
+1 After the Lehman collapse in 2008, many corporations kicked employees OFF, just in time to blame Obama.
LOL!
I met a guy canal side last year, who supplemented his dole by collecting returnables from the trash cans. We had a pleasant conversation about life and the universe. He blamed Clinton for his permanent loss of conventional occupation.
I commend the canal guy’s intelligence. I’m guessing his job was offshored due to NAFTA and/or most-favored China?
And at the time, I guess Clinton (and the R’s who helped pass these agreements) were all starry-eyed at the knowlege economy. We didn’t “need” those manufacturing jobs because we were all gonna get rich from the great Internets! Little did we know that India was watching very closely.
It is a knowledge based economy. The more knowledge, the better.
Unemployment Rates, October 2011 by education level:
High School Drop Out: 13.8%
High School Grad: 9.6%
College Graduate and above: 4.4%
(BLS doesn’t break it down by what type of degree for some reason)
Median HH income by education level of primary HH member:
High School Drop Out: $22,718
High School Grad: $36,835
Bachelor’s Degree: $68,728
Master’s Degree: $78,541
Professional Degree: $100,000
PhD: $96,830
Cue people giving examples of their high school dropout uncle who is worth $10M or Bill Gates as to why these numbers are bogus. Yes, obviously there are exceptions to the rule. But in general, the more education one has, the more money one will make and the less likely that person will be unemployed.
I’d like to see these numbers based on U6. I suspect that there are a lot of college grads who are underemployed.
I’d like to see these numbers based on U6.
Me, too.
Polly,
I don’t think that breakdown is available for U6. I could be wrong, but I couldn’t find it.
But if you look at median income historically, the INCREASE in income for college and above has far surpassed the increase for no college and no high school. Which would indicate that U6 is most likely very low for college and above as well while high for no college and no high school.
Men: median income no high school
1990: $20,902
2009: $33,345
59% increase
Men: Bachelor’s
1990: $39,328
2009: $82,197
109% increase
Men: Professional Degree
1990: $73,996
2009: $166,065
124% increase
Women no high school:
1990: $14,429
2009: $21,937
52% increase
Women Professional
1990: $46,742
2009: $100,167
114% increase
Inflation 1990 - 2009 was (per BLS) 64%. So, the educated made real gains in income over that 20 year span. The uneducated didn’t even keep up with inflation.
Argue as much as you want. The data is crystal clear. This is a knowledge based economy. Those with knowledge prosper. Those without knowledge don’t. The solution is not to change the economy and bring back low skills / low knowledge jobs. The solution is to education the uneducated and allow them to take part in the knowledge based economy.
Do smart people go to college or do colleges make people smart? I’d argue it’s mostly the former. I come across a lot of people that I’m not convinced could ever be successful knowledge workers regardless of how many books you give them or how many lectures you have them listen to. They just don’t have the brains for it. It isn’t PC to say, but some people are smarter than other people. Many people simply aren’t smart enough to be a software engineer.
The solution is to education the uneducated and allow them to take part in the knowledge based economy.
1. Not everyone is capable of it.
2. We are now using the student loan system to enslave those who are capable of it but have no money. So they don’t end up getting the benefit from it that the numbers would imply.
3. I’m not certain we actually need that many techies even if we educated them all for free. Although maybe we could find new uses for them if they work cheap enough (see 2).
Now what?
Carl,
1. Agreed. And not everyone is guaranteed success in life. We’ll always need people to clean toilets and they will always be paid low wages. That’s life.
2. Students do that voluntarily. There are low cost options for college. State schools are still fairly cheap relative to the $50K a year private schools. Live at home vs. in a dorm. Use a $20 phone not a $300 iphone while in school, etc.
You want to lower college costs tomorrow? Get the govt out of student loans. Without the govt backing of loans, tuition will plummet as nobody in their right mind will lend an 18 year old $200K.
3. Education does not mean techies exclusively.
First you said:
The solution is not to change the economy and bring back low skills / low knowledge jobs. The solution is to education the uneducated and allow them to take part in the knowledge based economy.
Then I said:
1. Not everyone is capable of it.
Then you said:
1. Agreed. And not everyone is guaranteed success in life. We’ll always need people to clean toilets and they will always be paid low wages. That’s life.
So your solution is only a solution for some people. I submit that a successful solution needs to benefit more than just the top half. The bottom half have guns, too.
Yep, pretty much.
My solution is educate as many people as possible. Those who can’t or won’t be educated will not succeed. That’s reality. Everyone can’t be above average.
1) employed people == customer$
2) well paid employed people == good customer$
Yeppers.
Whether it’s interior/exterior paint, See’s caramel $uckers, “bidne$$” shirts with collars, $tain proof carpets, $750 per oz printer ink cartridge$, Dunder-Mifflin’$ paper, what they really, really de$ire are these critter$:
Repeat Customer$!
(Batteries-not-included!)
We have reached an era of permanently high unemployment. We became too efficient, what with computers and all. It’s curtains for many people.
Economic Outlook Archives
Nov. 3, 2011, 3:08 p.m. EDT
Hiring in U.S. likely was slow in October
Forecast sees 90,000 jobs created, unemployment rate flat at 9.1%
By Jeffry Bartash, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The U.S. labor market has been adding jobs this year like a horse in a slow trot and that probably was the case last month, too.
In October, the U.S. likely gained around 90,000 net jobs outside the farm sector, according to economists surveyed by MarketWatch. For the year, the economy has added an average of 109,000 jobs a month.
The Labor Department will issue last month’s jobs figures early Friday morning.
At that rate, the economy is barely keeping up natural growth of the labor force. The economy would have to create around 250,000 jobs a month for several years to return unemployment to its pre-recession level of 6%. Read Rex Nutting’s column on employment.
It’s hard to find anyone who thinks that will happen. Economists at the Federal Reserve, for example, don’t believe the jobless rate will fall below 8.5% until early 2013. Many other economists are even more pessimistic.
In October, the unemployment rate is expected to remain at 9.1%.
…
“At that rate, the economy is barely keeping up natural growth of the labor force.”
How is this possible concsiering it still hasn’t yet replaced the lost jobs from the last 4 years?
Indeed. And the new job I started in October won’t count, as I was not backfilled in my old job, so it was a wash.
Always better to get out of the hole before the backfill! Congratulations.
It occurs to me that we do not have to add jobs for the “unemployment rate” to drop to normal levels of <6%. Rates higher than that simply tell us that the 24 month moving average of net job loss is is still accelerating. The job creation metric is not so relevant to unemployment as it is to “employment”. I mean that the unemployed are merely a temporary statistic, they cease to exist in time even if they don’t join the employed. We could end up at a much lower level of % employed and still be below 6% unemployment (covered by insurance) when the dust settles.
ReaItor-
Why do you encourage people to buy housing when prices are falling?
My bills are all due and the baby needs shoes and I’m busted
Cotton is down to a quarter a pound, but I’m busted
I got a cow that went dry and a hen that won’t lay
A big stack of bills that gets bigger each day
The county’s gonna haul my belongings away cause I’m busted.
I Know I know raising my hand:
I went to my brother to ask for a loan cause I was busted
I hate to beg like a dog without his bone, but I’m busted
My brother said there ain’t a thing I can do,
My wife and my kids are all down with the flu,
And I was just thinking about calling on you and I’m busted.
Well, I am no thief, but a man can go wrong when he’s busted
The food that we canned last summer is gone and I’m busted
The fields are all bare and the cotton won’t grow,
Me and my family got to pack up and go,
But I’ll make a living, just where I don’t know cause I’m busted.
I’m broke, no bread, I mean like nothing, forget it, over.
Because selling houses is what realtors do?
…said the scorpian to the frog.
cuz it’s the american dream…you know dreams…hopes…wants…put them all in one hand and crap in the other.
come back and tell us which one gets the fullest.
Realtors are Liars:
I get what you’re saying and your overall point.
But using your logic, nobody would ever buy anything again until the price fell to $0.
There would be no in between. As soon as values stop increasing, values start falling. Nobody buys anymore since values are falling. Values won’t stop falling until people buy again. But, according to you, people shouldn’t buy when values fall. Therefore, no sales will occur until value hit $0 and can’t fall anymore.
It would make for an interesting market, that’s for sure.
I think this is again an issue of what’s good for an individual household isn’t necessarily good for the collection of households. If you ignore the fact that an individual household can influence the market price, it’s hard to argue that the individual household should buy if price declines are a given. Decisions aren’t made as a group, they’re made by individual participants with imperfect data and an imperfect decision making process.
Sure.
But RAL is very specific in his/her animosity towards the realtor for encouraging people to buy when prices are falling. In his/her world nobody would every buy when prices were falling. In which case people would only buy when prices rose or when prices were at $0.
Point is someone has to buy when prices fall otherwise prices never stop falling. Not just for houses, for anything in any market the same applies.
I think he was trying to tell you that realtors are liars.
I’ve already stated the reason for the question. Only ReaItor can answer.
I don’t know where I’m going, but I sure know where I’ve been
Hanging on the promises in the loans of yesterday
And I’ve made up my mind
I ain’t payin` one more time
Here I go again, here I go again
Though I keep searching for an answer
I never seem to find what I’m looking for
Oh Lord, I pray you give me strength to carry on
‘Cause I know what it means
To live for free while jeff saturday screams
Another month behind on my loan
Going down the only road I’ve ever known
Like a Deadbeat, I was born for a free home
And I’ve made up my mind
I ain’t payin` one more time
Just another loan in need of rescue
Waiting on Fed’s sweet charity
And I’m gonna hold on for the rest of my days
‘Cause I know how I
To live for free while jeff saturday screams
And here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I’ve ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone
And I’ve made up my mind
I ain’t wasting no more time
But here I go again, here I go again
Here I go again, here I go
‘Cause I know what it means
To walk along the lonely street of dreams
And here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I’ve ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone
And I’ve made up my mind
I ain’t wasting no more time
And here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I’ve ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone
‘Cause I know what it means
To walk along the lonely street of dreams
And here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I’ve ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone
The Eagles the other day, then some other insipid band and now Bon Jovi?? While I appreciate your Yankovian oeuvres, can we please stop with the terrible music earworms? I know, I know, don’t read the posts. But I start reading and I find myself trying to figure out the song and step on a flaming bag of musical poo.
What’s next? Great White Lionsnake’s “Here I Go Again (Out of Home)”? Europe’s “Final Meltdown”? Poison’s “Talk Reatly To Me”?
Crud, I just earwormed myself. Look what you did!
“can we please stop with the terrible music earworms?”
Well, no I don`t think I can.
Helen Reddy I am woman
I am Deadbeat hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an’ pretend
‘Cause I’ve heard it all before
And I’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep me down again
Oh yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I’ve paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to
I can do anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am Deadbeat
You can bend but never break me
‘Cause it only serves to make me
More determined to achieve my final goal
And I come back even stronger
Not a novice any longer
‘Cause you’ve deepened the conviction in my soul
Oh, yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I’ve paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to
I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am Deadbeat
I am Deadbeat watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin’ arms across the land
But I’m still an embryo
With a long, long way to go
Until I make my banker understand
Oh, yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I’ve paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to
I can face anything
I am strong (strong)
I am invincible (invincible)
I am Deadbeat
Oh, I am Deadbeat
I am invincible
I am strong
I am Deadbeat
I am invincible
I am strong
I am Deadbeat
————————————————————————–
I can`t stop! MrBubble help me! I don`t even think there is a twelve step group for this.
1.We admitted we were powerless over Deadbeat songs — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a House prices that were not artificially inflated could restore us to sanity.
MrBubble will you be my Sponsor?
“I don`t even think there is a twelve step group for this.”
We’ll make one. Me and you. Dr. Jethro and Bill RAL.
Step 1
Admitted we were powerless over our hate for the Housing Crime Syndicate.
Step 2
Came to believe we’re powerful enough to bring sanity to the markets.
Take it away Dr. Jethro.
Oh wait, that IS Great White Lionsnake. It wasn’t Bon Jovi. You DID put that in my head. Fie on you sir.
At least I have Tawny Katain (sp?) on the hood of the Jaguar. But still.
Hair bands rule. That is all.
I knew right from the beginning
that you would end up winning.
Dance dance dance.
Heh. Hair bands rock. All Ozzy stuff, early VH, Dokken, Ratt, Dio(!)…. others Carl?
I liked all that, and I even liked the last post-Nirvana attempts to keep on doing it. Some of the bands tried to stay contemporary and turned out to be very mediocre at it, but others released some good stuff up through the 93-94 timeframe. Winger, Warrant, David Lee Roth with Jason Becker, Skid Row, White Lion…it was all good to me until they tried to change or gave up. On a less metal note, the last stuff from Journed with Steve Perry and Pink Floyd without Roger Waters was also good in that time period.
I eventually learned to like Alice In Chains, but for the most part I never got into the stuff that followed the things listed above.
You Can’t Fix a Burst Bubble With More Hot Air: Caroline Baum
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-04/you-can-t-fix-a-burst-bubble-with-more-hot-air-caroline-baum.html
Nov. 4 (Bloomberg) — It’s almost six years since the air started to leak, then gush, out of the U.S. housing market, and the best one can say is that residential real estate is bouncing along the bottom.
Almost every housing indicator, from starts to sales to prices, has been flat-lining for three years. Various government initiatives, including a first-time-homebuyer tax credit, gave home sales a temporary boost in 2009 and 2010. But just as water seeks its own level, home prices are still seeking theirs…..
….Why is so much energy being directed, or misdirected, at housing? Wouldn’t those efforts be better spent charting a sound course for the overall economy rather than targeting a specific sector?
For starters, housing’s footprint is larger than its current 2.4 percent share of gross domestic product. Even at its recent peak in 2005, residential investment, as it’s known in the GDP accounts, made up only 6 percent of GDP, the highest since the 1970s when inflation was driving demand for real assets.
For most Americans, their home is their major store of wealth. The value of household real estate peaked in the fourth quarter of 2006 at $25 trillion, falling to $16.2 trillion in the second three months of this year, according to the Fed’s latest Flow of Funds report. A reverse wealth effect is depressing consumer sentiment and spending.
It’s also limiting mobility….
So much energy is being directed at reinflating RE because many politicians have large RE investments themselves.
“…residential real estate is bouncing along the bottom.”
Speaking of hot air…
This is really a great article. Sadly, I expect its message to be roundly ignored by policy makers courting the homeowner vote.
…
All the discussion about closing tax loopholes to raise revenue tiptoes around the mortgage deduction. Why? Because it’s a bad time to remove an incentive for home purchases.
It’s always a bad time, but good times won’t return to the real-estate market until prices are allowed to fall so they can perform their traditional role of allocating supply.
There are still plenty of reasons to own a home, but the deductibility of mortgage interest isn’t one of them. For the last two decades, the nation’s housing policy was designed to convert as many Americans as possible into homeowners. It was aided and abetted by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which lowered the standards on mortgages they guaranteed; lax lenders; fraudulent loans, with borrowers and lenders often in cahoots; bankers that securitized and sold the mortgages; credit-rating companies that thought enough collateralized junk was worthy of a AAA; and, yes, a public eager for a free lunch.
The 11 million homeowners currently upside down on their mortgages probably wonder about the wisdom of such a policy, which succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest imagination. The homeownership rate rose to 69.2 percent in 2004 from 63.8 percent a decade earlier before slipping back to 66.3 percent now.
The rest of us can only imagine what other calamities (think ethanol) lie in store, courtesy of a tax code that encourages what the government deems to be “good” behavior at the time. Good can turn bad without warning.
“This is really a great article. Sadly, I expect its message to be roundly ignored by policy makers courting the homeowner vote.”
65% own, 35% rent.
As a politician, you go where the numbers are. Can’t really blame them.
“There are still plenty of reasons to own a home, but the deductibility of mortgage interest isn’t one of them”
Depends how much income you have and how much interest you pay. Someone making $50K with a $100K house won’t benefit from the deduction at all. Someone making $200K with an $800K house will benefit a lot.
I personally think the deduction should be abolished. Govt should not be in the business of subsidizing people making $200K a year who buy $800K houses. But if that were to happen it would need to be a slow, gradual thing. Can’t just yank the deduction over night from people who planned their purchases based on the deduction being there for 30 years.
“But if that were to happen it would need to be a slow, gradual thing.”
Totally agreed. Hopefully the phase-out of the MID will commence shortly.
For most Americans, their home is their major store of wealth.
Therein lies the problem.
And, sorry to say, I don’t have an easy solution. It’s not like the stock market is a better place to build wealth. Or saving up money via a bank account. Or starting and growing a business. Most people aren’t cut out for that.
“For most Americans, their home is their major store of wealth.”
somehow me thinks they forgot that you build it up over 30 long years and have a paid-off shelter when you retire. The concept that it would increase in value over the nominal 3% inflation rate is plan dumb.
One thing i am noticing in my ‘hood is that you can pickup a dated plain vanilla ranch for a reasonable amount, remodel it, i.e bring it up to date, and sell it for a reasonable profit - of course the only ones doing this are serious remodelers and not starry eyed fly-by-night flippers. Most of these are well done, fairly priced for the upgrades and are selling pretty fast.
…of course the only ones doing this are serious remodelers and not starry eyed fly-by-night flippers. Most of these are well done, fairly priced for the upgrades and are selling pretty fast.
Historically, the people who’ve done well at buying, fixing up, and selling have been the serious remodelers. The starry-eyed flippers just don’t know enough about the business to be successful over the long run. Count them as an aberration.
Housing, Banks Weigh On Spain’s Fragile Economy
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/04/142004313/housing-banks-weigh-on-spains-fragile-economy
With Greece in flux over whether it’ll remain in the eurozone, other weak economies like Spain are feeling the heat.
The worst could be yet to come in Spain — not because of public debt, but because its banks are still laden with unpaid real estate loans, putting both the banks and the housing market in jeopardy. Real estate prices in Madrid are still high, though salaries are frozen and unemployment soars. When Ireland’s housing bubble burst, prices dropped more than 40 percent. But in Spain it’s an 18 percent drop on average.
Spanish banks own lots of property, and they haven’t yet written off the losses.
The problem with Spain is private debt, and that’s what’s weighing down on the banks — the part that might not get repaid.
“They’re not talking about it so as not to provoke fear,” says Gayle Allard, an economist at Madrid’s IE Business School. “Housing prices have hardly fallen. What that tells you is that the banks are just hanging onto those assets and not unloading them, because the minute they do, their balance sheets are really going to look bad. The value of housing will really collapse. It hasn’t happened yet.”
“Housing prices have hardly fallen. What that tells you is that the banks are just hanging onto those assets and not unloading them, because the minute they do, their balance sheets are really going to look bad. The value of housing will really collapse. It hasn’t happened yet.”
Sound like about 60% of America…
I believe that the situation in Spain is far worse than here.
I heard the same report from a Spanish colleague…back around 2003 or so.
“I believe that the situation in Spain is far worse than here.”
+1 I believe you’re correct.
There was a YouTube clip linked from here a couple of years ago that gave a cursory look at income v. housing prices in Spain, and it would make a Californian blush.
“the minute they do, their balance sheets are really going to look bad. The value of housing will really collapse”
Let’s get it on. Lordy.
It’s like belonging to a cargo cult, waiting for this great day. If we had but local banks and mom-and-pop capitalism again, you could see something like this happen.
Like Fast Eddie said to Bert in “The Hustler” … “I’ll hustle up another stake and play Fats again!” Bert: “And maybe you’ll die of old age first.”
“It’s like belonging to a cargo cult, waiting for this great day. ”
So you’re calling me/us stupid for waiting to buy a house?
Not really. But you have to admit, it’s frustrating. Here we HBBers thought if we just waited this out, housing would actually crash and we would have our pick of prime quality housing at 2.5 times income. I myself was eagerly eyeing that Credit suisse graph, thinking that the great day would start in right about the beginning of 2009. And here were are, three years later, jawing about the how Greece’s latest moussaka fart is propping up the DOW which props up the banks which keeps housing too high.
I to the point where i want to just throw in the towel.
I to the point where i want to just throw in the towel.
When ever I get to that point, I just think about how I will feel if after putting in all these years (and rent!) I buy just before the crash happens and despite all those hours of vigilance and study still end up underwater.
If you want to stay in a location forever I suppose you could take your chances. But I have found very few listings I could even consider for a “forever” home. Never mind the thought of paying $10k plus in taxes in my retirement years. Nope, being underwater is still too high of a risk.
“Nope, being underwater is still too high of a risk.”
Very high risk. Pay cash and your risk is magnified tremendously.
LOL. These Heritage guys crack me up.
Public Schools Pay Teachers 50% Above Market, Heritage Analysis Finds
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2011/10/Public-Schools-Pay-Teachers-50-Percent-Above-Market-Heritage-Analysis-Finds
“Heritage Pays Bloviators 100% Above Market, Palmetto Analysis Finds”.
Public Schools Pay Teachers 50% Above Market, Heritage Analysis Finds
“Kentucky feeds its slaves 25% more calories per day than other slave states” Heritage Analysis 1859
“25% cheaper to replace FoxConn worker suicides with new employees than to provide counseling” Heritage Shenzhen analysis 2011
The Heritage guys are citing a study from the American Enterprise Institute, which is an even worse hellhole of greedy b@st@rds.
You guys need to read the language that they use in this article.
==============
“However, the generous fringe benefits offered by public schools raise teacher compensation 52 percent above the going market rate. That’s the equivalent of a $120 billion overpayment charged to taxpayers each year…
“Teachers who are more effective at raising student achievement might be hired at comparable cost. Comparing scores on cognitive tests…”
Most teachers accrue generous retiree health benefits, worth an extra 10 percent of wages. The researchers also factored teachers’ relatively high job security into the equation.
“School administrators need to be able to hire and fire teachers as needed, basing personnel decisions on rigorous value-added evaluations and setting pay based on prevailing market rates.”
============
Most effective at raising student achievement? Cognitive tests? Market rates?? Value-added?!? And job security is now a “fringe benefit.”
Who’s running this Foxconn factory for kids, Jack “Six Sigma” Welch?
And on another note, public school teachers should be paid more than private schools; they get all the expensive kids. Kids need to be educated by someone, and private schools can just pass off all their non-profitable students (i.e. discipline cases or special needs kids) on the public schools, the same way that UPS passes off the non-profitable small rural mail on the Post Office.
public school teachers should be paid more than private schools;
Actually, they’re not even making the public/private school comparison. Their comparison is this:
“the typical public school teacher makes about $1.52 for every dollar made by a private-sector employee with similar skills.”
There’s a lot of wiggle-room there.
“the typical public school teacher makes about $1.52 for every dollar made by a private-sector employee with similar skills.”
What a load! My son wants to be a teacher and I’m trying to talk him out of it because the pay (in our neck of the woods) is so low. Teachers start at $32K. A local milk farm that does home delivery starts its drivers at almost $40K
“What a load! My son wants to be a teacher and I’m trying to talk him out of it because the pay (in our neck of the woods) is so low. Teachers start at $32K. A local milk farm that does home delivery starts its drivers at almost $40K”
But can the delivery guy retire after 25 years with full pension/benefits and get 3 months off every year with almost guaranteed job security for life?
That’s worth a lot more than $8K a year as a starting salary.
In my neck of the woods:
Elementary teacher median salary $52K. Adding benefits, PTO and pension contributions by employer, that gets bumped to $75K
Not too shabby a gig if you ask me. And that’s elementary school, which is the lowest paid. Middle and high school teachers make more. Again, this is with the ability to retire after only 25 years and practically lifetime job security.
It’s debatable whether teachers deserve this or not. But saying teachers don’t get paid well is laughable.
Not too shabby a gig if you ask me.
Okay, then I challenge you to go into a classroom full of first graders and teach them how to read, write, and do basic arithmetic. I’ll bet you won’t last a week as a teacher.
I have never heard of teachers contract that paid more for higher grades. Never. Can you provide a link to confirm this, because honestly, I don’t believe you.
“The Heritage guys are citing a study from the American Enterprise Institute”
I just found this entry in the urban dictionary under: circle jerk.
The orange site (you know of what I speak) yesterday had an article by Bob Sloan that diagrammed the intricate web of right-wing connections, all of which at the center were directly or indirectly funded by the Koch brothers. Heritage, American Enterprise Institute, ALEC, a multitude of individuals, ‘educational foundations’, think tanks, radio and TV shows. This is the “vast ring-wing conspiracy” to which Hillary Clinton referred during her run for the Presidency, and for which she was widely ridiculed by the MSM. Sloan says that the MSM have been infiltrated at every level by people who owe their jobs to the Kochtopus. They start out as interns, funded by some branch of the VRWC, and work their way up. Seeing it all in graphic form was chilling indeed.
Heritage, American Enterprise Institute, ALEC
An Industrial/Manufacturing base is not a requirement for a health economy
The Heritage Foundation 1991
Public school teachers overpaid compared to unemployed former factory workers. American Enterprise Institute 2011
Thanks! I’ll have to check it out. The system is so entrenched that they give it a name: Wingnut Welfare.
However, I hope their days are numbered. The young generation is too diverse and too aware to fall for it again. These old guys are OLD, and hopefully the youngser 40-something wingnuts won’t have the same charisma. I was overjoyed to see that one of the main conspirators in the British phone-hacking scandal was none other than James Son of Rupert. I was thinking: that’s one dynansty down…
I see this same dynamic playing out in Arizona politics. A lot of angry white people aged 60 and up. And a much more diverse, easygoing population under 60.
Exit Poll 2010 Arizona:
Age group, votes for (D) (R) governor
18-29 46% 48%
30-44 43% 53%
45-64 40% 59%
65+ ) 44% 54%
Aside from the 18-29 crowd which amazingly enough also voted Republican, AZ’s voters are pretty close in voting patterns 30 and up.
Don’t hold your breath for a Democrat wave happening any time in the next 20 years in AZ.
thanks for bursting my bubble - GEG !
stats, stats and damn lies…
2010 was an off-year with a very low Dem turnout.
I finally watched the Nova shows on human evolution from my DVR yesterday. Funded by David Koch. Figured out the angle.
The scientists were speculating that adapting to rapid climate change may have been the evolutionary push that cause one of the hominid ancestors to have a larger brain (whereas before it was thought that bipedalism itself and moving onto the grasslands was a large part of it). OK. Fine. Scientists putting forth a hypothesis and identifying at as a hypothesis.
Then the voice over starts editorializing about how we should embrace climate change and welcome it because it was the force that made “us” smart in the first place and anything we managed to adapt to before would be good for us again. Does anyone know of other Koch backed enterprises that acknowledge climate change and just say we should just look forward to it rather than either deny it is happening or deny it is related to human activity?
I had not heard of that angle. So now they’ve got:
Climate change is not happening
Climate change is happening, but is not man-made
Climate change is happening, but it’s cooling not warming
Climate change has always happened
Climate change is happening, but will make plants grow (CO2 is what they crave) and it’s not man-made
Climate change is a librul plot
Climate change is set in motion by Jeebus and there’s nothing we can do about it
Climate change is happening, but will make us smarter, so lie back and think of England
How do you fight the multi(money)-tentacle Koch-topus? Blow up your TV? Even Nova? Why do so many out there want to chug this corporate cr@p rather than listening to the folks who gave us the internet, computers, TV, running water, satellites, air travel, electricity, increased life expectancy, etc.? You know who I’m talking about: the businessmen! The job creators!
Just kidding, I meant scientists.
The people in NJ/NY/CT/CA/PA/MA etc that are paying $15,000/year in property taxes for a nothing-special SFH says they are correct.
Let’s see the circle of life.
High Property taxes
Public unions
Closed Shop
Forced to join the union as a condition of employment
Forced to pay union dues
Unions dues collected before you get your paycheck without your consent
Public unions support candidates (99% democrat) that promise even more insane salaries/benefits/pensions
Candidates get elected with the millions in union dues
Golden public union contracts get approved
Even higher property taxes
Can you imagine any other service/business running this way…?
Can you imagine if this system was in place but on the conservative side of the house? The howls and protests we would hear…
“Can you imagine if this system was in place but on the conservative side of the house?”
Well let’s use our imaginations!
Low effective corporate
High PropertytaxesPrivate old boys club
Public unionsClosed
Shopfundraising dinnersNot allowed
Forcedto join the union as a condition of employmentForced to
pay union duespay monopoly health insuranceUnion dues collectedBenefits yanked before you get your paycheck without your consent <– just be happy you have a job.Old boys club
Public unionssupport candidates (99% Republicandemocrat) that promise even more insanesalaries/benefits/pensionstax breaks/loopholes/interest rate deals/bailoutsCandidates get elected with the b
millions inunion duestv advertisingGolden
public union contractsparachutes get approvedEven
higherlowerpropertycorporate taxesThe howls and protests we
wouldhear…BAM!
You are missing the part where you are FORCED to buy the corporation’s products/services
And you are missing the part that if you miss just ONE payment to the corporation - a corporate goon will come to your house WITH A GUN and kick you out of it…
Oh wait – that part of your fantasy world doesn’t exist.
And PS – corporation give about 50/50 to dems/repubs
Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2012 - http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A
You are missing the part where you are FORCED to buy the corporation’s products/services
Do you have any choice other than to buy your car/insurance/food/clothing/medicine/furniture/etc. from Corporate America?
“You are missing the part where you are FORCED to buy the corporation’s products/services”
You’re right. He did forget to mention that part. Thanks for reminding us.
And you are missing the part that if you miss just ONE payment to the corporation - a corporate goon will come to your house WITH A GUN and kick you out of it…
You mean like the folks who live in the house while missing 30+ mortgage payments?
[i]Do you have any choice other than to buy your car/insurance/food/clothing/medicine/furniture/etc. from Corporate America?[/i]
Yes, you have the right to die in the street when you can’t afford any of them. You know, survival of the fittest and all…
Yes, you have the right to die in the street when you can’t afford any of them. You know, survival of the fittest and all…
God Bless “Christian” America.
God Bless “Christian” America
And cheer for record number of executions and boo gay soldiers. USA! USA! USA!
You have every right to seek a handout from private tax-deducted charities, you lazy bum. If you can put together a few lines that sound like the script of Jesus Camp, maybe the ladies at the local megachurch will give you that chemo you need.
“Old boys club support candidates (99% Republican)”
one major point that is incorrect.
the fact that unions donate considerably more to the democratic party is a fact though.
And. So. Therefore.
As much as money corrupts the system, people vote. Not donations.
“Can you imagine if this system was in place but on the conservative side of the house?”
Lol.
What matters is that we cannot operate a viable economic system here in America if people don’t have jobs that can pay for the price of things ,as well as supporting Government function .
it is sheer madness to think that this contrived Global system of a rigged deck in favor of the 10% was anything but
a systemtic takeover by a small percentage of the population .
That’s the worst part of that idiot’s article. He says, “they can’t get more somewhere else, so we should cut…”
A theory from down under.
How Housing Bubbles Are Triggered
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1111/S00011/how-housing-bubbles-are-triggered.htm
An excellent article by Leith van Onselen of MacroBusiness Australia, illustrates clearly why artificially strangling the supply of urban residential land in Australia, is the root of the problem.
1) The commercial / industrial sector is the first to be “hit”, as it is more politically feasible for Local Authorities to overcharge this sector. It is not uncommon now for around a quarter of Local Authorities actual costs being attributable to the commercial / industrial sector, but the rates take can be as much as half of the total, so in effect the residential sector is subsidized for the excessively costly services it receives……(it continues)
(2) As the Local Authority costs keep escalating year after year, the pressures build to strangle fringe residential land supply, in an endeavour to lessen the infrastructure spend, so as to feed the insatiable financing requirements of the growing bureaucracy. As Local Government costs get increasingly out of control, a “tipping point” is reached, where residential development is no longer seen as a benefit, but a cost instead…..(it continues)
(3) Enough is never enough - as these bureaucratic costs keep growing, which created the pressures for “fee farming” and the imposition of illogical and unjustifiable Development Levies. In general terms, the larger the Local Authority, the worse they become……(it continues)
The above “3 Steps” are the foundation for housing bubbles to be “triggered” – and finance in all its forms (whether equity; bubble equity; mortgage debt) is simply the “fuel”.
The mortgage lending multiples to incomes simply must reflect the Median Multiples (refer Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey) of individual urban markets.
For example, lending institutions could not participate within the unaffordable housing markets, lending at the Texas multiples of 2.5 times annual household incomes. Instead – they are required to lend at 5, 6 and through to 11 times (refer - Straight Talk on the Mortgage Mess from an Insider - Herb Greenberg - MarketWatch) as happened in California, before it crashed it 2007, triggering the Global Financial Crisis……
“Texas multiples of 2.5 times annual household incomes”
Never heard it called that!
Is the Australian government backstopping mortgages, encouraging excessive leverage?
Because it’s different there?
Illinois’ housing recovery hinges on jobs
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/ct-mre-1106-podmolik-homefront-20111104,0,1348570.column
November 4, 2011
For most of the housing crisis, Chicago-area homebuilders and real estate agents have repeatedly said thank goodness they weren’t trying to do business in such housing boom and bust states as Florida, California, Arizona and Nevada, which experienced frenetic homebuilding and skyrocketing home values.
If the most recent forecast from the National Association of Home Builders proves correct, they might want to eat those words.
Illinois will be one of the last states, other than Arizona and Nevada, to recover from the housing crisis, the trade group’s economists recently predicted. But the problems holding back Illinois’ recovery aren’t the same as the overbuilt and once vastly overpriced Arizona and Nevada. In Illinois, it’s jobs.
But the problems holding back Illinois’ recovery aren’t the same as the overbuilt and once vastly overpriced Arizona and Nevada. In Illinois, it’s jobs.
Closed shop union state
Just massively increased their income tax
Still will go bankrupt due to insane contracts with their public unions
More higher taxes coming (guess which party is in charge)
Yeah - I would want to move my business there…
More higher taxes coming (guess which party
iswasin charge“I’m-the-Decider!” 1st)See what happens when you start x2 4+ Trillion Dollar foreign War$ whil$t lowering the Wealthie$ taxe$ for 10 years.
Cheney-$hrub = $hadow Legacy #2
(Now they’re Angry!, now. 1/2 a score later.)
Union contracts are like mortgages, leveraged happiness on the way up, deadly on the way down.
Either way, avoid the company of debt slaves.
Quick, we gotta do something…
How to Fix the Housing Mess
http://www.businessweek.com/finance/how-to-fix-the-housing-mess-11022011.html
For years we’ve treated the symptoms. Now it’s time to solve the true real estate problems…
….Allow homeowners to refinance their mortgage even if the owner has negative equity in the home. (Negative equity is when the mortgage balance exceeds the fair market value of the home.) Homeowners who are up to date on their mortgage payments and have been current for at least one year would be able to refinance even if they have negative equity in their homes. ……
* Have Uncle Sam match down payments, up to $25,000, for any first-time homebuyer. These buyers would have real equity in their homes from day one and would even have a buffer should home prices deteriorate further.
*Uncap the mortgage deduction for anyone purchasing a home that is in foreclosure. Homes in foreclosure are a drag on the real estate market, often create blight in otherwise stable neighborhoods, and burden the financial institutions that hold the mortgages…..
*Let all income on residential real estate purchased for investment be tax free for five years. This would apply to all investors, whether individuals, corporations, or real estate investment trusts. Given the rising demand for rental properties, this would provide investors with an additional reason to buy income-producing residential real estate….
* As with any proposal to deal with significant national problems, the fix must be calibrated to ensure that it does exactly what it is designed to do. These initiatives would be limited to the purchase of existing housing stock …
*Efforts to prevent fraud and reduce the risk of another housing bubble would be essential.
And how is Businessweek’s solution NOT just treating more symptoms?
$25K down-payment match will instantly raise the cost of the houses $125K, and they KNOW it. This is precisly what happened with the $8K tax credit.
The way to solve it is to 1) Allow FB’s to get out under the house, rent for a while, and re-buy at a crashed price. Maybe a BK deal. 2) get rid of mark-to-fantasy to unload the shadow inventory.
Yeah, kind of funny that they’d say they want to stop just treating the symptoms and then come up with that list.
In other news, sitting under a sunlamp has been proposed as the best way to treat the symptoms of melanoma.
That is only if you require 20% down payments. It could inflate prices even more than that. A lot more.
And uncap the mortgage deduction? Isn’t that capped at the amount of interest on a $1 million mortgage? Perhaps I should be grateful that is one of the suggestions as it will have little effect. How many people buy foreclosures using over a million dollars of borrowed money?
How to Fix the Housing Mess
Get government completely out of the mortgage/home buying business.
Banks must retain the loans they make for at least five years.
It really is that easy.
This will never happen. Most higher level politicians have very large real estate portfolios.
Along with their stock market holdings.
“Most higher level politicians have very large real estate portfolios.”
Sources, please?
Wherever their public personal income and assets statements are stored.
I haven’t been to that website in ages.. But it IS public information.
2banana -
You’ve got it. Hayek is smiling down on you.
It really is that easy.
Let’s ask the Wall $t. guru’s, they’re clever ’bout $uch things. In fact, they’re ProFEE$ional$!
I say Rat$
you say mice
I say $lice
you say dice
“Hickery dickery dock
they don’t punch in at the clock”
“When the clock strike$ one
they’re all done!”
“My, my look at the rat$ run!”
off to enjoy their fun in the $un.”
“Hickery dickery dock
x3 cheer$ to the peon$ they mock.”
The Banksters will never allow it
they should rename that article “housing market advice from the dumbest man in the world”.
LOL
How you deal with fraud and fake wealth creation .
As in the case of Bernie Madoff ,they went back and didn’t acknowledge the welath that was created by the fake Ponzi scheme .
Likewise ,the fake wealth creation by faulty lending and
Wall Streets fake wealth creation by faulty lending and Corporate Americas
benefits during the crime wave should be taken back .
A ill-gotten gains tax should be charge for at least a 10 year crime wave ,charged against the main beneficiaries of the crime wave .
This is where the money should come from to pay for the loss
they try to transfer to the already robbed .
Guys like Buffet would owe about 20 billion and most Coporations would owe billions in ill gotten gains tax .
Combined with this new trade policies and tariffs should
be enacted ,along with penalty taxes to American Corporations that out-manufacture or outsourse jobs . They should be treated like foreign Companies . Laws should be re-enacted that force Corporate USA to honor their pension benefits and not be able to pass it to the Government . Wall Street needs a entire overhaul in their ability to have their
crazy casinos bets and World influence in their misallocation of money in favor of fake bubbles and money flow corruptions .
There is no question that self interest groups and Monopolies took over the Government with total disregard for the long term systems in America ,to the point they can be viewed as tthe new-age TRAITORS to the well being of the USA citizens .
Currently ,the people/forces who have the cash to influence are the ones that robbed that cash to begin with .
You might think this is a crazy answer to the problem ,but better to take from the Culprits than take from the unable .
Housing Bubble Jr.
Young Americans mortgage their future for overpriced college degrees.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204618704576643421658817058.html
Here’s a puzzle: Try to figure out what we’re describing.
It costs a lot of money, so much that most people have to go into debt to buy it. It has considerable intrinsic value, but it is also understood to be an investment. And it is a status symbol–indeed, almost a necessary condition for achieving middle-class status.
Its acquisition by as wide a swath of the population is widely seen as a social good. Thus the government heavily subsidizes it through tax incentives and other means. That, however, creates an artificial demand that drives prices up and, in a vicious circle, spurs demands for more subsidies. Efforts to make it more easily acquired for minorities, who by objective standards tend to be less qualified, compound the problem.
In the current economy, it has turned out to be considerably less valuable than promised. As a result, many Americans are under water, with debts that they will not be able to pay off easily.
What is it? A house, but that’s the obvious answer. We’re thinking of a college education. The similarities between the housing bubble and the higher-ed bubble are remarkable, aren’t they?….
This.
“Their anger is understandable but misplaced. The banks were merely doing what banks do; if they had refused to make student loans, these youngsters would have been just as upset. As for the corporations, the reason they demand college degrees, as we wrote in 2007, is that is that the government forbids them to screen applicants directly for basic intelligence under a doctrine of antidiscrimination law known as “disparate impact” that the U.S. Supreme Court established in the 1971 case Griggs v. Duke Power Co.”
You do know that it was only because the government guaranteed those loans, just like RE, that they agreed to those terms and made those loans in the first place, right?
“…if they had refused to make student loans…” the cost of the average four-year undergraduate degree would still be in the four figures.
House = Commoditie$
College enrollment list = Commoditie$
Educational text books = Commoditie$
Commoditie$ contain very little profit$ for Wall $t. + They are nearly impo$$ible to control. Empha$i$ on nearly.
Yosemite Sam [to Bugs Bunny]:
“Ooooooooooooooooooh!!!,…I hate rabbits. Stop right there, varmint. I hate you! Come back here, ya varmint!”
When I went to the local state university in the late 60s and early 70s, there were no student loans. I worked a near-minimum wage job ( keypunch operator ) and I was able to pay for the tuition+books, as well as pay for a very modest apartment, a beater car, and a steady diet of macaroni and cheese. The position of university professor was respectable but squarely in the middle of the middle class. Look at how federally guaranteed student loans have improved things since that time.
And this is the up-and-coming generation of first time home buyers. Oops, not any longer.
When the relentless bullishness on housing from the FIRE machine wears you down, as it does to all of us from time to time, remember the above observation.
The RE cartel is screwed for a decade or two, no matter what, because the EDU cartel already got to the new generation of potential debt serfs first, and has already consigned them into servitude.
The RE cartel is screwed for a decade or two, no matter what, because the EDU cartel already got to the new generation of potential debt serfs first, and has already consigned them into servitude.
Hmmmm….so maybe the part where they’re eating their own started long ago.
Maybe the first to go to jail? Hopefully a trend will emerge…
—————————-
Corzine Hires Criminal Attorney
The New York Times | November 4, 2011 | PETER LATTMAN
Jon S. Corzine has hired Andrew J. Levander, a leading white-collar criminal defense lawyer, according to three people briefed on the matter, as the former New Jersey governor deals with fallout from the collapse of MF Global, the brokerage firm he has run since last year.
Federal authorities including the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Securities and Exchange Commission are investigating the $630 million in missing customer funds at MF Global.
“Andy is not just smart but has a deep understanding of the investigative process,” said Steven M. Cohen, a defense lawyer at Zuckerman Spaeder in New York and the former top aide to Governor Andrew M. Cuomo. “He understands how cases are built and therefore how they are defended.”
The great thing is that the prosecutor is a buddy of corzine’s from GS. My guess is he’s greased the right hands and won’t be sharing a cell with Madhoff.
My guess is he was placed at this fund by WS powers with the idea that they would divert funds to purchase European debt. The same thing is probably going on in your retirement accounts and pensions across the country.
I’m not so sure. If a guy left a job at GS to work for the government, it probably wasn’t for the “insane” pay and benefits. That ex-buddy probably won’t be paid off for any price.
You mean like Hank Paulson???
Moving into gov allowed him to sell massive amounts of stock at the peak tax free. I’m sure he’s been given other favors by his GS friends for a job well done in terms of fleecing the tax payer.
It was a real downer to realize that America has abandoned the rule of law…
Hank’s situation is very different than someone who has been a prosecutor since the 90’s. Seriously. It just isn’t the same thing at all.
And a career bureaucrat is VERY different from a top-level political appointee.
The term was mentioned here the other day: “Too Connected To Jail (TCTJ).”
I think it was Sammy Schadenfreude.
step one…try to get the case dismissed due to the inability for his client to get a fair trial considering the current ecnomic climate and the widespread public discontent for those members of the banking industry…ergo…OWS.
“…generous fringe benefits offered by public schools…”
How about this ” The ridiculously sparse fringe benefits given to those in private schools such as; no medical benefits, little or no job security and no defined pension plans make public school compensation seem good in comparison.
It’s all in how you look at things.
Elizabeth warren shows her colors and Tea Party shows theirs
crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/teabagger-heckles-elizabeth-warren-yo
This guys is out of work and I guess wants to see benefit cuts and reduced government spending on jobs programs. He probably supports lower taxes on capital gains and corporations. All to his own detriment.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
I think I’ll start designing a line of Socialist Whore clothing. Y’know, tee shirts and the like.
But I’ll betcha that someone has beaten me to it and has a store up and running on Cafe Press or Zazzle.
More than a few people seem to agree. The Credit Union National Association, a D.C.-based advocacy group, recently surveyed 5,000 credit unions across the country. The vast majority reported a surge in membership and a surge in deposits. The association estimated that credit unions across the country have picked up at least 650,000 new customers over the past month and collectively added $4.5 billion in savings accounts, whether from new members or from existing members shifting funds. The association also has seen a surge in visitors to its aSmarterChoice.org website, which includes a search engine to help consumers find a credit union they are eligible to join.
A credit union, a nonprofit cooperative owned by its customers, typically charges fewer fees than the big banks, and often offers lower-rate loans. Christian, who recently shut down her gallery (in part because of threats she has received due to her high-profile campaign against the banks, she says), now has accounts at the Los Angeles Federal and Coast Hills credit unions.
Christian is hardly the only person calling for a boycott of the big banks in recent weeks. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, for instance, made a similar suggestion last month on Twitter, though he suggested to his 72,000 followers that they “withdraw funds from these large institutions” and deposit them with a local community bank rather than a credit union. There’s a “move your money” website that calls on visitors to open accounts at community banks and credit unions because the “big Wall Street banks crashed our economy, refused to clean up the mess, and haven’t been held accountable.” And of course there’s the spotlight the Occupy Wall Street movement has placed on the sins of the big banks.
news.yahoo.com/boycott-bank-020200504.html
Hey, and don’t forget ex-soccer great Eric Cantona last year.
What does King Eric have to do with Credit Unions?
He came out against world banking cartels couple of yrs ago I believe. He also said that the best way to defeat them is to take money out of banks or something like that.
I knew I liked him for a reason
soccer?
Get Drew Brees to move his money and it’ll be katie bar the door.
Drew Brees is a dumb jock who barely plays 10 minutes of tackle ball and makes insane money. He will never move his money from big banks…..
You could say the same for most soccer players.
But why choose just one? Let Drew convince the North Americans and Eric can handle the rest.
Yes, soccer. Eric Cantona is world famous (he played for Manchester United). Outside of North America no one knows who Drew Brees is.
Salaries in the English, Spanish and other soccer leagues are comparable to the NFL. Manchester United is the most valuable sports team in the world. So yes, soccer. And they have this thing called the World Cup, which is bigger than the Olympics.
the World Cup, which is bigger than the Olympics.
That’s why Rio Apartment prices can’t come down because we have the World Cup in 2014 and then the Olympics in 2016 and everybody wants to live here because there’s not enough houses because of the nice weather and they’re not making any more land because of the beach and that’s why everyone’s buying so they don’t get priced out forever before interest rates rise.
Tha banking industry spent untold amounts of money to lobby lawmakers to enact very stringent laws against CUs designed to hobble and cripple them.
Funny how that ended up working in the CUs favor by keeping them OUT of risky speculation and thus keeping fees low to non-existent, isn’t it?
Damn marxist socialists!
IN Wi the gov is trying to kill credit unions
Wisconsin’s Republican-controlled legislature is in the final stages of shaping the state’s next budget, and they’re using the budget process to implement a number of radical right-wing policies with little or no debate.
One of the surprise items slipped into the budget was a change in the way state-chartered credit unions can convert to banks. Currently, a credit union would have to return member-owned equity to the membership before the conversion, or first convert to a federal credit union charter and then convert to a bank. Under the new rules, a state-chartered credit union would not be required to distribute the equity to members before converting to a bank.
So, who wants this change? As Thompson said, the Wisconsin Bankers Association is behind it. Their hope is that a few credit union executives and board members will take advantage of the opportunity to convert their institutions to banks and pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process.
One consulting firm, CU Financial Services, specializes in these conversions, and markets their services with promises of millions of dollars in stock opportunities for credit union executives. This windfall is gained by raiding the member equity during the conversion, member equity that under current law would have to be returned to the membership before conversion.
Wouldn’t the CU be required to inform their members that the CU was about to convert to a bank? Even 30-days notice is a lifetime in the Twittersphere. That’s enough time for the member to take their account and equity to another CU before the CEO’s could take it from them.
See below, other provisions suggest that they will not be required to inform all members.
I lost a small amount of money from a process similiar to this a few years ago.
I was NOT happy.
Well Measton, like Obama said to the republicans shortly after his inauguration in 2009, “We won.”
BTW, when Dems control things do they implement radical left-wing policies?
Nearly 200 tons of prescription drugs turned in
Another reason health cost is high in this country. We just have too many trigger happy doctors.
pre$cription drug$…happy doctor$
$ee it for what i$ man.
(Also you forgot: “Repeat Cu$tomer$” x million$ + In$urance)
(I would mention x5 Billing$, but thad be rubbin’ it in.)
They just opened a Patient First clinic near here. One day it was under construction, then a few days later, packed with cars. I thought it might be an marketing scam or something. But, now it’s been weeks since it’s been open and it has been packed every time I drive by.
Moving day today. I am biking to the new place with a full load, but otherwise, we went with movers. But they wouldn’t take the foodstuffs, so I am loading the panniers with deer quarters the three miles. Yeah, I’m that guy.
Last week, our landlord asked my wife, if it wasn’t too nosy a question, why we were renting because our financials are quite good. I wasn’t there for the question, but she said that she started talking about rent-to-own ratios, the (general) inverse relationship between interest rates and prices, the real estate industrial complex, SLO county has a long way to fall, etc. I am so proud of her and glad that I waited for the right person (and had the sense to know it)!
It’s not going to kill the environment to rent a car for a day…
OTOH, if MrBubble had a bike trailer, this would be the perfect time to use it. I’d offer him mine, but I’ve been using it for hauling building demolition rubble and I need to clean it.
“It’s not going to kill the environment to rent a car for a day…”
“It’s OK to drink this bottle of water and throw it away just this once”, said 375,000 Americans every day.
It is a hair shirt that I must wear so that the CO2 produced by our trip to Perth in December to see our relatives doesn’t cause a psychic break through massive cognitive dissonance. And I could take one extra trip in the wife’s Mini with the deer riding shotgun, but it makes for a way crazier story if I bike with a quartered animal to the new place. Way crazier.
AZSlim — I have been looking at trailers to haul stuff to our new garden from the hardware store/junkyard. But I have to sell a wine fridge and a Dobro before I get one (and a used banjo). Any recommendations on a trailer? I’ll need something to haul the bambino in in a few months too.
I’ve heard good things about the Bob trailer. ‘Tho it’s not very practical for the hauling of one’s offspring.
Also take a look at the Xtracycle. You can haul loads of stuff — and kids too.
SLO county has a long way to fall, etc.”
Not if retired CA safety workers keep moving there with their gold plated pensions
All the gold plate has been scooped up in the streets of Greenwich, CT. Try copper patina for CA safety workers.
Can someone please explain how “crony capitalism,” is “forcefully taking your money for the purpose of paying off a politician’s political friends.”?
Bachmann urges Occupy Wall Street to stop blaming ‘job creators’ to restore economy
http://minnesotaindependent.com/91248/to-restore-economy-bachmann-urges-occupy-wall-street-to-stop-blaming-job-creators
….Michele Bachmann has pushed back against the idea that the rich are to blame for the country’s unhealthy economy.
…Occupy Wall Street protestors… believe that the problem we face is capitalism, the free markets and job creators,” Bachmann said in a statement Friday. “It’s not.”
Instead, Bachmann says the problem is “crony capitalism,” which she defined….as “forcefully taking your money for the purpose of paying off a politician’s political friends.”
“The problem is one set of standards for individual Americans and another set of standards for those who make political donations to candidates,” she said. “If we are ever to get out of this ditch, President Obama, the Democrats and Occupy Wall Street need to wake up and stop blaming job creators for the failures created by selfish politicians.”
…While Bachmann briefly touches on the issue of campaign finance reform, saying that American and “Occupy Wall Street in particular, needs to wake up and stop blaming job creators for the failures created by selfish politicians who wink at their political donors,” she eventually settles blame for the faltering economy on the corporate tax rate and regulatory burdens.
…Bachmann’s campaign didn’t immediately respond to the Minnesota Independent’s request for comment on Bachmann’s stance on the Citizens United Supreme Court decision or campaign finance reform
Can someone please explain how “crony capitalism,” is “forcefully taking your money for the purpose of paying off a politician’s political friends.”?
Bailouts? Then she’s got a point. One point.
Except that she is restating one of the OWS points, not saying something they disagree with.
WRT recent posts stating OWS will end in chaos and anarchy, here’s your chaos and anarchy
The local AM Fox News Radio (fair and balanced) identified the suspect as a Fort Collins OWS member, the Denver Post has yet to do so.
“A Fort Collins man has been arrested as a suspect in a $10 million fire.
Benjamin David Gilmore, 29, was taken into custody Thursday night in connection with the Oct. 24 Mason Street fire.
The fire gutted a four-story condominium building under construction and heavily damaged another four-story condo complex next door. The fire also took out several businesses.
Gilmore is suspected of first-degree arson, second-degree burglary and criminal mischief, all felonies, according to a Fort Collins Police Department media release. He is being held at the Larimer County Jail.
The cause of the fire was investigated by local and federal authorities.
Authorities said the fire caused an estimated $10 million in damages.”
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19264417
just came across this article - talks about what made the west accelerate ahead of the rest of the world, ofcourse the rest of the world is quickly catching up now.
“America’s ‘Oh Sh*t!’ Moment”
“History isn’t one smooth, parabolic curve after another. Its shape is more like an exponentially steepening slope that quite suddenly drops off like a cliff.”
http://tinyurl.com/3kqnnam
another interesting read is Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel”
Agreed with some of the stuff in the article, but that jive about other countries working harder/longer than us? For what? So that we can barley keep our heads above water, makin’ a wave when we can? Just to enrich the cream-skimmers and get a faster jet ski or iPod? No thanks. I’ll work harder in my garden, buy less and starve these fignuts.
IMO Guns, Germs and Steel was 1000 substantiations of one albeit idea and at least half again too long.
Chinese Now Know Every Trick In The Book For Getting Into A US College
This country and its institutions; legal, social, financial, government, educational, and everything are beyond parody.
The difference between Americans and Mohammed Ali is that when he said, “I am the greatest!” he was. - Fred On Everything
First we outsourced our manufacturing base to China.
Now we are outsourcing our knowledge base.
Once they have all the human and physical capital, they can watch the debt-ridden U.S. economy follow the Greek economy along the road to austerity.
The beutiful part in all this is that the CEO’s who think they are king of the world because they sold out their fellow American will go down with the ship when that happens.
No they won’t. They will retreat to their private islands with the cash they’ve been saving up. If they were smart.
But will that cash be worth anything if it’s in dollars?
RNC class warfare is hurting job growth.
Nov. 4, 2011, 1:46 p.m. EDT
Conservatives in Congress thwart economic growth
Commentary: Economy needs more demand, not more tax cuts
By Heather Boushey
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Today’s release of the most recent jobs numbers is yet another reminder that conservatives in Congress need to get behind legislation to boost job creation in our economy. At this point in an economic recovery — especially one following such a deep recession — we should be seeing upward of 300,000 jobs created per month, but the economy only added 80,000 jobs in October, although August and September’s data were revised upward by a total of 102,000 jobs. Still, the three-month pace of job creation is only 114,000. That’s woefully inadequate.
So what’s holding back more sustained job creation? The gap in demand caused by the collapse of the housing bubble and Great Recession means that big corporations are still sitting on several trillion dollars in cash, waiting for sufficient customers to spur higher investment, and job seekers are still waiting for investments trickle down into jobs.
But conservatives in Congress — who are determined to slash government spending where it is needed most in infrastructure and in support for state and local jobs, while preserving or enhancing tax cuts for the wealthy — are doing real damage.
…
LOL. Where is government spending not “most needed”?
Aside from the bipolarity of politics, is it possible that contraction itself is thwarting growth? Is it possible that the contraction is the result of an unsustainable expansion of debt rather than real prosperity? More debt would fix everything?
The first order effect of most of the Republican-floated self-imposed austerity spending measures would be to add to the unemployment rate. Whether this would better or worse than Democrat-style stimulus is a subject for debate.
Between two evils. If the debt bomb is ever to be paid, it’s a question of take it now or take it later when the consequences are heavier. i.e.; we take the hit or leave it for our kids?
“If the debt bomb is ever to be paid”
Deflation makes paying the debt back harder. That’s the key flaw in the austerity ’solution’.
Wisconsin’s Republican-controlled legislature is in the final stages of shaping the state’s next budget, and they’re using the budget process to implement a number of radical right-wing policies with little or no debate.
One of the surprise items slipped into the budget was a change in the way state-chartered credit unions can convert to banks. Currently, a credit union would have to return member-owned equity to the membership before the conversion, or first convert to a federal credit union charter and then convert to a bank. Under the new rules, a state-chartered credit union would not be required to distribute the equity to members before converting to a bank.
dailykos.com/story/2011/05/18/976584/-
Wisconsins-Credit-Unions-Under-Attack,-but-From-Who?detail=hide
Then on top of that they allow a small minority to vote in secret and profit from it.
The good news to the industry is that there are apparently no Wisconsin credit unions ready now to convert to a bank following the startling enactment last week of a wide-open enabling law which could go into effect within days or a few short weeks.
The bad news is that Wisconsin CUs were dealt a come-from-behind body blow inflicted by the banking lobby which managed to bar Gov. Scott Walker from vetoing a line-item clause in a budget bill containing the controversial language.
“Our government relations committee will be meeting July 20 to discuss our next step,” said a spokeswoman for the Wisconsin Credit Union League, which fought unsuccessfully to remove the conversion proposal from the budget bill.
The new law, which the league called “radical”, permits direct conversion of a CU to a bank by bypassing the mutual structure and drastically streamlining the process on member voting and sharply reducing disclosure and communication rules.
The league charged the law permits insider transactions and self dealing by CU boards and includes a “symbolic conversion vote with no requirement that members be adequately informed so they know the impact of the charter changes.”
The law “permits insiders to profit personally starting the day after the conversion” and the law does not “require that directors disclose clearly, conspicuously and before a member vote any economic benefit directors and senior management” would receive from a conversion, the league said.
The law is so “radical” that “only one other state allows direct conversion to a stock bank while “49 states do not allow it because it is nearly impossible for credit union executives and directors to faithfully execute their fiduciary duty,” the league said.
http://www.cutimes.com/2011/07/01/online-only-wisconsin-cus-stunned-by-passage-of-co
2 banana you want to defend yourside now??????????
ROME (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi defiantly refused to step down on Friday despite growing desertions from his crumbling center-right coalition that have left the fate of his government hanging by a thread.
Berlusconi, caught in the crossfire from European powers and a party revolt at home, agreed at the summit to IMF monitoring of economic reforms which he has long promised but failed to implement. He said he had turned down an offer of IMF funding for Italy.
With financial markets in turmoil over Greece, and Italy viewed as the next domino to fall in the euro zone crisis, calls are mounting for a new government to carry through reforms convincing enough to regain international confidence.
I think Berlusconi is scum, but as with Greece democracy will take a back seat to Banks.
ISTR Nixon hanging tough in the spring and early summer of 1974. No way was he going to resign. Uh-uh.
We know how that worked out.
Older Women Less Likely to Live Alone Now Than A Generation Ago
Posted on November 3, 2011
Written By: Rose Kreider, U.S. Census Bureau
In general, the percent of all households that contain just one person has risen over the last half of the 20th century and into the 21st century. In 1960, 13 percent of all households contained one person, while in 2011, this had risen to 28 percent. While the percentage may not differ significantly from one year to the next, the overall trend has been an upward one. That’s why the decline in one-person households of 0.8 percentage points from 2008 to 2010 stands out.
http://blogs.census.gov/censusblog/2011/11/older-women-less-likely-to-live-alone-now-than-a-generation-ago.html
I’ll bet that the real reason is doubling up. Or finding someone special in one’s later years.
Here in Tucson, which has quite the retiree population, there are a lot of elders who shack up because they don’t want to lose some benefit or the other. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems to be a case of the marriage penalty.
I’m pretty sure it is Social Security that can go down if a widower whose benefits are largely derived from her former husband’s benefits remarries. Can someone confirm?
I suspect that the female half of a lot of these shacking-up couples is a widow.
Nope. Divorcees who kids have formed their own families…. and the fact that seniors of today are far healthier than seniors of past decades.
Widows here descend on a newly widowed male like moths to a light. If he wished, the guy would rarely if ever have to cook dinner for himself. The women even have a name: casserole ladies. A surprising number do set up house together after a period of time.
Sorry. Widow. Not that many widowers whose SS benefits derive largely from the earnings of their late spouse.
Does anyone besides me notice the MSM’s double standard as regards the Cain mutiny? When a Republican politician comes under scrutiny for past sexual indiscretions, the Wall Street Journal editors dismiss the effort to properly inform the public as “disgusting events.” I can’t recall a similar outcry back when a politically-motivated special prosecutor brought details of Bill Clinton’s private affairs into plain view.
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
NOVEMBER 4, 2011
The Cain Bonfire
The story about sexual harassment settlements was bound to come out.
Now Herman Cain knows how Icarus felt at the top. We won’t go so far as to push the analogy to conclude that the Cain campaign is crashing into the sea. But make no mistake: Herman Cain’s got a sea of trouble.
…
That said, anyone who finds the past week’s events disgusting, on virtually any level, has our sympathy.
…
Is Cain the Kochtopi candidate?
11/04/2011 @ 3:04PM
Herman Cain: “I’m A Koch Brother From Another Mother.”
At a summit backed by conservative financiers the Koch brothers in Washington, D.C. on Friday, Herman Cain sought to “clarify” his connection to the billionaire industrialists for the media. During a keynote speech greeted by rapturous applause from hundreds of Republican attendees, Cain didn’t distance himself from Charles and David Koch, America’s richest brothers — rather he reaffirmed his status as the Koch-approved candidate, saying: “I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother and proud of it.”
His announcement came midway through an address at the Defending the American Dream conference, a two-day event hosted by the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, a right-wing nonprofit founded by David Koch, who is the group’s chairman. Koch had a front row seat at Cain’s speech and leapt to his feet when the 2012 candidate spoke of their relationship, pumping his fist and dancing in a circle while fellow audience members cheered.
…
This seems perfectly consistent with the anticipated effect of the 9-9-9 plan to shift the tax burden away from the 1% and towards the 99%.
And yet countless lemmings, waving their “Don’t tread on me” flags will vote for this guy.
In Cain’s case, he really is “palling around” with the bad guys. Not surprising, as he is one of them.
Just imagine the outcry if a white candidate of either party had made that “electrocution on the border fence” remark. It’s quite a relief to know that Cain was merely joking. Even so, he has a really sick sense of humor, not to mention a bad memory, considering how long it took him to recall the hush money paid to his alleged sexual harassment victims.
Cain Proposes Electric Fence To Kill Illegal Immigrants
by Jessica Pieklo
October 15, 2011
6:14 pm
On a campaign tour through Tennessee, Cain elaborated on what will be a central portion of his immigration policy: a big electric fence. Cain’s fence, he announced on Saturday, would be electrified and run the entire course of the US-Mexican border with voltage high enough to kill anyone trying to enter illegally.
Cain’s ideal fence would be 20 feet high with barbed wire on the top with a sign saying “It will kill you–Warning.” In a campaign stop in Tennessee, Cain clarified that the sign would be written in both English and Spanish.
In case the big electric fence wasn’t enough, Cain would add some extra (unspecified) “technology” to cut down on illegal immigration. He also suggested adding American troops armed with live ammunition to patrol the border, indicating maybe that “technology” he’s referring to is something akin to drone crafts armed with bombs.
…
It is no secret Cain is a plutocrat.
We talk about the influence of corporations in business. Cain would be a case of an actual CEO at the helm of the government. No proxy or shadow strings necessary here.
typo: “We talk about the influence of corporations in business”
should be “We talk about the influence of corporations in politics”
Some members of a bankrupt Orange County, Calif. megachurch are expressing outrage after fielding an email request for congregants to deliver food to waiting limos so that it can ferried to the founder’s sick wife. The appeal comes weeks after a lawsuit charged that the founder of the Crystal Cathedral house of worship, Rev. Robert Schuller, and his family had been paying themselves lavish salaries and other benefits while the church was in financial straits.
“They’ve completely depleted the church’s funds,” one member, Bob Canfield, told the Orange County Register. “But they have shown that they have absolutely no remorse for what they’ve done. They’re still being chauffeured around in limos. We, the congregants, have nothing.”
An email sent recently by Crystal Cathedral administrators said that Schuller and his wife, Arvella, “would appreciate meals over the next three to four weeks.” It added: “They are to be sent to the church in order to be transported to Arvella. The limo drivers could pick up the dinners or meet in the Tower Lobby around 4:30 p.m.”
Things that make you laugh. How many times has this story been told? Sheep take the fleecing again and again.
I can remember a friend telling me about Robert Schuller back in the early 1980s. Whenever I was at her house and his TV show was on, well, we just had to watch.
Even then, there was something about the guy that struck me as too good to be true. Looks like my gut instinct was right.
Yes, the email also stated something to the effect that “the Schullers are very private” implying that they didn’t want anybody (including their own church members???) actually coming over to their house.
Wow.
You’d think that maybe with all of the million$ between the parents and the kids, that maybe they could spring for a housekeeper/cook for a month or two.
No church members visiting the house? Sheesh! When I lived in Pittsburgh, the rector of my church had the parish over for a house party.
Fabulous party, but the truth was, the rector’s marriage was about to implode. (He’d found another woman.)
In that church, we looked back on Father Phil’s house party as his last hurrah.
“(He’d found another woman.)”
Where did he find her? Was she at the party? I find other women all the time, they`re everywhere. That doesn`t mean you have to sleep with them or leave your wife.
Oh well, I hope it all worked out for Father Phil, his found woman and his lost wife.