November 21, 2011

Putting The Cart Before The Horse

8 News Now reports from Nevada. “Short sales now account for half the properties on the Las Vegas market. For some people, it means putting their lives on hold. ‘It’s complete chaos sometimes,’ Cortney Wood said. She lives life half-packed, half-unpacked. She bought her house in 2008 for $285,000. She and her husband lost their jobs and her new business, making custom cakes, isn’t bringing in the same money. They opted to do a short sale after their bank’s mediation offer fell far short.”

“‘When we finally went to mediation, they finally offered us a modification. A dollar off our payment,’ Wood said. ‘We were figuring out where we were going to spend it. People really need to just let go of it and make the best of what their situation is. Move on. It’s just a house,’ Wood said.”

The Deseret News in Utah. “America’s suburbs, a long-time iconic symbol of middle-class prosperity, are now home to the largest and fastest-growing poor population in the country. In Roy, cars line up in the parking lot of a local strip mall once a month, waiting for volunteers from the Utah Food Bank to heft big boxes of pasta and vegetables into their trunks. Sandwiched between a big SUV and an old, broken down Toyota that’s holding onto its bumper with a mess of twine, there’s a shiny silver Pontiac. Inside, a prim little grandmother in a smart cardigan and pink lipstick shyly admits, ‘Once upon a time, I was middle class.’ Her husband’s insulation business crashed during the recession. The couple lost their house in the suburbs and are now living with their daughter.”

“‘You see people in all these nice cars lining up to get free food,’ said Jennie Probert, volunteer coordinator for the Utah Food Bank for Roy and Layton. ‘You’re quick to judge, ‘Can you afford that car?’ But it’s just a sign of the times.’”

The Spectrum in Utah. “With the Utah Association of Realtors reporting increased home sales and decreased prices and inventory throughout the state, Cindy Campbell, president of the Washington County Board of Realtors, said she feels confident the local market is going ‘back to normal.’ In St. George, home prices have decreased by 41.4 percent since 2006, according to Fiserv.”

“‘One of our prime discussions during Realtor meetings is what’s happening with the banks, in Washington, D.C. and with regulations,’ Campbell said. ‘I think the pendulum swung so far to one extreme that everyone with a heartbeat was getting a loan, and now it’s swung back so tight that we have more normal, stable lending practices.’”

The Salt Lake Tribune in Utah. “With the help of an auction earlier this month, Salt Lake City real estate developer Ken Millo said he has sold nearly all the condos in his long-stalled 35-unit Broadway Park Lofts development in downtown Salt Lake City. Selling prices of the 29 units were not disclosed, but Kennedy Wilson said $4.4 million worth of condos were sold. That works out to an average selling price of just under $152,000 per unit.”

“With most of the units in Broadway Park Lofts sold, Millo plans to finish the second building in the development. South of the first, it is planned for 51 condominiums and 10,500 square feet of retail space on the ground floor. Salt Lake City Realtor Tracy Thomas brought a buyer to the Nov. 5 auction who purchased a top-floor unit with 1,127 square feet of space and a deck for $206,000, plus the auction fee of 5 percent, for a total sale price of $216,300.”

“‘I was shocked at how low the selling price was for that unit,’ she said, adding that the condo was valued at $349,900 just one month ago.”

“Although the popularity of condos soared during the real estate boom of the early to mid-2000s, demand for these living units — as well as for single-family homes — has plummeted. But that was only one of the problems facing Millo’s development. Because of a backlog, it took him nearly two years to get Federal Housing Administration certification. The designation, which came through in January, is a necessity in today’s market, one that enables buyers to take out loans insured by the federal government.”

The Arizona Republic. “In 2008, Congress approved the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Neighborhood Stabilization Program, an initiative that aimed to cut down on foreclosures and abandoned properties. Phoenix, with its high foreclosure rate, was awarded a sizable portion of NSP1, NSP2 and NSP3 funds - more than $115 million to date. But a couple of years after the program’s creation, Phoenix resident Karen Williams still had ‘mixed feelings’ as to whether the program was working here.”

“Williams will be one of the newest NSP-assisted homebuyers, moving into a home by Thanksgiving. ‘You’d hear about the money, but you wouldn’t see it,’ Williams said. ‘And then you’d see new development going on and say, ‘What’s going on here when we’ve got empty homes all over the place?’”

The Arizona Daily Star. “Arizona law doesn’t require debt holders to record the transfer of a mortgage from one lender to another before the foreclosure process can start, the state’s highest court has ruled. The Arizona Supreme Court issued the opinion Friday in response to legal questions raised in the bankruptcy case of Tucson homeowner Julia Vasquez.”

“Vasquez refinanced her home in September 2005 with Saxon Mortgage Inc. Her note was assigned to Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. as a trustee for Saxon Asset Securities Trust later that month. When the deed assignment was transferred, Saxon didn’t record it with Pima County, court documents say. Vasquez later defaulted on her mortgage, and in September 2008, a foreclosure notice was recorded.”

“With the question of whether Deutsche Bank legally had the right to move forward with foreclosure now answered, Vasquez’s case will return to U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Vasquez’s attorney, Beverly Parker said. And homeowners in Arizona will continue to struggle to find out who really owns their debt, she said. ‘The wild west of home foreclosures will continue to thrive in Arizona,’ she said.”

My Fox Phoenix in Arizona. “A Mesa family is in jeopardy of losing their home — and the bank is blaming it on a clerical error. The Mexins received a letter of approval for a loan modification, but six months later Bank of America said the letter was a mistake — and that the family home would be foreclosed on. This family was thrilled to learn their monthly mortgage payment was going to drop by about $400, only to find that months later they would owe all that money plus late fines and penalties.”

“Six years ago Cheryl and Rick Mexin bought their dream home. They live there with five children they adopted from Ukraine for a better life in Mesa, Arizona. ‘It’s a great house, the inside is just perfect for everything that we like and want,’ says Cheryl.”

“‘The Mexins sent a copy into bank of America they said ‘oh yes we do have a copy but it’s no longer valid because it doesn’t meet our investor guidelines, so you’re going to have to leave the house unless you can catch up on missed payments,’ which equaled about $20,000 at that point,’ says attorney Jonathon Frutkin.”

The Denver Post in Colorado “About two dozen protesters disrupted a foreclosure auction in downtown Grand Junction on Wednesday morning before three were arrested and the auction of foreclosed homes continued. ‘You guys are making money off of people’s dreams, dude,’ protest organizer Jacob Richards told Mesa County public trustee Paul Brown as Brown tried to start the auction.”

“One of the protesters was Cynthia Sexton, whose home was being sold. She was taken away in handcuffs while her adult daughter cried in the hallway and clutched a sale notice where the home she had grown up in was listed for sale. Officers initially tried to force members of the media to leave the protest scene, which had been announced in advance, before the officers peacefully arrested the protesters inside the auction room. Other protesters outside continued to wave signs and chant, ‘They got bailed out. We got sold out.’”

The Durango Herald in Colorado. “While housing is undoubtedly important, I am concerned about being misled by overspecializing on homeownership and construction. The personal savings rate in the United States has been steadily falling since the 1980s, when it accounted for about 10 percent of household disposable income. By 2007, it had reached 2 percent. What happened?”

“Well, we overinvested in housing. Since then, real estate has sucked up resources: Agricultural land has been swallowed up by neighborhoods, strip malls and freeways. Savings that would otherwise have gone to productive capital machines, technology and skills that foster economic growth have been fed to mortgages as households diverted their savings to real estate.”

“Granted, a house is more than just an investment. It is a home, which is just as well because the after-inflation rate of return to housing is, on aggregate, zero.”

“The problem of putting one’s nest egg into a single asset has come to roost: Houses aren’t very liquid, they can be hard to sell and must be fed monthly. Moreover, people’s perceptions were distorted during the bubble. When prices rise at 30 percent per year it’s hard not to be enthusiastic.”

“And in the face of all this, the federal government has looked impotent. All the ballyhooed home-rescue legislation has helped about 800,000 homeowners over four years or so. On the other hand, there were 230,000 new foreclosures – last month.”

“Let’s let homebuilding be a barometer of the health of the economy, not the driver. This is clearly a case of putting the cart before the horse.”




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52 Comments »

Comment by jbunniii
2011-11-21 08:49:41

When we finally went to mediation, they finally offered us a modification. A dollar off our payment.

That’s an extremely generous offer. If it were up to me, I would have raised your payment.

Comment by Steve J
2011-11-21 14:20:58

I’m sure the bank made money by offering the $1 off.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-11-21 08:55:55

“That works out to an average selling price of just under $152,000 per unit.”

Sounds like SIL and hubby could have had a nice downtown SLC condo for $20K less than they paid for one on the hot sands of West Salt Lake in order to capture $8K in first-time buyer credit.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2011-11-21 09:32:00

They wouldn’t have wanted one of these, I don’t think. We toured them when the auction hype started - they are right across from the SL farmer’s market, so we figured, why not.

All I can say is that I don’t get this new “hip urban” architecture that is almost entirely exposed concrete, steel and glass. I have an appreciation for renovated downtown buildings, with lots of original exposed brick and wood, nicely refurbished. These felt as cold and lifeless as one can imagine, complete with Ikea cabinets.

And the view is of the unfinished tower (same development) right in front of them. Who knows whether they’ll ever bother to finish now that they know what the market is.

Why pay $200/sq. ft. to be “downtown”, when you still have to get in your car and drive across the center of downtown just to do most of your basic shopping and errands? Don’t feel too bad that they missed this one.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-11-21 09:41:41

All I can say is that I don’t get this new “hip urban” architecture that is almost entirely exposed concrete, steel and glass. I have an appreciation for renovated downtown buildings, with lots of original exposed brick and wood, nicely refurbished. These felt as cold and lifeless as one can imagine, complete with Ikea cabinets.

Another problem is that most hip urbanites aren’t making enough money to afford these places. Instead, they’re renting apartments. Or rooms in houses. Or, in extreme cases, they’re couch-surfing.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2011-11-21 10:16:35

The article says one sold for 75k.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2011-11-21 10:34:49

Those units were 2-story, 300-400 sq. ft. total. They were only of interest to someone starting out who literally “owned nothing” in life, because there was no room to put anything.

They had this tiny spiral staircase that you’d have to navigate in the middle of the night to get to the crapper.

Kind of stuff that only geezers contemplate, I guess.

I got a kick out of the “premium” 1100 sq. ft. units. 300 of that total came from the uncovered, non-private rooftop deck space.

 
 
 
Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 08:59:11

Sold out of Logan, Utah in 2009 at a 75k loss(in for 365k, out for 290k). Nice house above the notorious winter fog, on the bench, in small town of Providence, 10 miles from Logan. Absolutely gorgeous area lured us in, Mormans be darned we thought. We liked some aspects of the religion, such as the body as a temple, and thought it would be healthy for the kids.

We, and more importantly, our kids, unfortunately mixed like oil and water with the dominant religion on the street which made living there unpleasant for us. Especially after we skipped the ward party.

Also got ripped off bigtime on a lease to own agreement I entered into with the fella moving out with all our furniture and dishonoring his agreeement to pay me for it. Lesson learned, we doubt we will ever set foot in Utah again.

Prices are down an additional 20% since then and we sold at close to a 20% loss as well. There is a home like ours for sale on the same street/by the same builder; only with more bedrooms(6) and bigger- more appropriate for the average family size there-it has been languishing on the market for over 6 months at a lower wishing price, I see. Wishing price per square foot has dropped from over $110 in 2006 to $100 in 2009 and now it would be worth $80 per square foot, I suppose(wishing price though; it could be even less if and when it sells).

And the Beehive state was late to the party; big reason we were able to get out at all in 2009. Sold to equity locusts from Morgan Hill, CA.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-11-21 09:28:07

“…in small town of Providence, 10 miles from Logan.”

We visited family there last summer. Lovely small town, well-situated for USU employees, but I wouldn’t advise settling there if you are not a member of the LDS church.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2011-11-21 09:37:58

We lived in Logan for a year (2003) as lifelong non-LDS. That was after 14 years in south Salt Lake County.

Mrs. Shoe and I pride ourselves in being adaptable, keep-our-mouths-shut-and-blend-in kind of people. After about 7-8 months in Cache Valley we were screaming to get out, and we were gone within the year, with only sketchy plans as to what came next. I’ve never felt that way about any other place that I lived. I mean, it’s really not a bad place in a lot of ways, but…

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-11-21 10:31:56

FWIW a lot of us who are LDS are also better off not living in certain places in Utah. We’re not “joiners” as far as community activities go, and don’t need that sort of social pressure. They like to justify it as a church thing when it’s really more of a personality type thing. So you end up with all the joiners is one place and everybody else leaves.

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2011-11-21 10:45:01

I can understand and appreciate. We lived in Wayne Co. in So. Utah for 7 years after that, where there were locals that traced their ancestry to the pioneer settlers, and then there were the rest of us. I observed that LDS families that had moved in from elsewhere were really no more welcomed by old Wayne Co. folks than anyone else.

By the way, our antipathy towards Cache Co. was only partially due to social and demographic issues. It’s colder than @#%! in winter, yet still hot in summer, and the pollen and mosquitoes are off the charts. And for whatever reasons, for a college town it seemed to be a mind-numbingly dull place to us, and we’re not exactly exciting people ourselves.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-11-21 11:36:29

If I were LDS, Providence would seem like a logical place to set up a version of the HBB’s Oil City Plan. In fact, one of my wife’s other siblings and family have done so — bought an old farm home on the cheap about the time Mike in Bend was leaving town in 2009, and are gearing up now to raise vegetables and chickens. They wisely listened to my advice to wait out the bubble collapse, unlike other family members who bought at the top…

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 12:37:04

We left town immediately after being shunned by the hood. Kids sent home from neighbors houses on Sundays saying Sundays were for family/LDS only. Lists on the blackboard regarding LDS membership status. Daughter lasted one week in school, she was taunted and teased mercilessly. Son learned that “over from Heaven, and down makes a 7″. Some folks would use an alternative charter school but that defeated the “oil city plan”. Stayed long enough to set up the house; then moved back to Bend.

Thought it was our oil city plan cuz I wanted my masters from USU and the neighborhood was pretty…..and everything was close by.

Learned that one is well advised to do a thorough “sociability” study before making such a move.

Like any oil city planner should IME, hindsight being 20/20.

Leased the place out for two years then sold(without somuch as coming to town to try and claim our furniture back from our tenant). Wish we could have sold sooner because the value was declining and we knew it, but we were in a 2 yr lease to own deal. Tenant was a salesman who fell upon hard times, and a couple of our rent checks came directly from the LDS. He had no problem reneging from an agreement to purchase our furniture, and abscond with it. But at least he did not contest the downpayment accumulated credit he had made towards his non-executed lease to own with us.

Probably on their books as members now. I grew up among some LDS, and some were among my best friends. But Cache Valley was more fundamentalist than we had anticipated. The bishop that sold us the place told us it would be different….

 
Comment by Overtaxed
2011-11-21 13:40:55

“Also got ripped off bigtime on a lease to own agreement I entered into with the fella moving out with all our furniture and dishonoring his agreeement to pay me for it. Lesson learned, we doubt we will ever set foot in Utah again.”

Ahh yes, nothing like being ripped off by a religious nut.

For all those who can’t stand the religion influenced states (myself included) I highly recommend FL and CA. We’ve got no religion except for money; I’m much happier here than I was in the northeast (and no way in he** I’d move to Utah or anywhere else that’s one step from becoming a domestic terror cell).

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-11-21 19:17:28

“I highly recommend FL and CA. We’ve got no religion except for money;…”

Aside from pockets of 1%ers, you won’t find much money in CA.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-11-21 09:44:13

We, and more importantly, our kids, unfortunately mixed like oil and water with the dominant religion on the street which made living there unpleasant for us. Especially after we skipped the ward party.

Same thing happened to a single mom friend of mine. She bought a house near Sabino High School, on Tucson’s far east side. Son was to go to school there, and, oh, brother did he NOT fit in. Guy’s not Mormon. Or rich. Neither is Mom.

Any-hoo, my friend noticed the coldness when she first moved in and tried to introduce herself to the neighbors. One even walked away from her without saying a word.

Well, she got revenge in her own way. In 2010, she sold that house at a huge loss, and that probably tanked the comps for the whole nabe.

 
Comment by AmazingRuss
2011-11-21 13:52:03

“Also got ripped off bigtime on a lease to own agreement I entered into with the fella moving out with all our furniture and dishonoring his agreeement to pay me for it. Lesson learned, we doubt we will ever set foot in Utah again.”

I’ve learned not to do business with bible beaters. Once they know you aren’t one of them, God tells them it’s ok to screw you over.

Comment by Steve J
2011-11-21 14:27:55

I’ve found that the more religious the person claims to be, the less religious they really are.

Same thing with rich people.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-11-21 09:20:21

“This is clearly a case of putting the cart before the horse.”

If enough newspapers follow the Durango Herald’s lead and start talking common sense again about housing, I am confident America can soon move past this ugly anger phase of the housing market stages of grief to bargaining, depression, then finally acceptance. The healing process is clearly underway.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-11-21 10:16:16

Pay back what you owe or pack your fawkin’ bags. It’s pretty simple.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-11-21 12:21:33

Why? If the bank is in no rush to kick you out, why pack your bags?

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-11-21 12:30:34

The majority of FBs leave before the house gets taken back. I suppose they want to get on with their life.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-11-21 12:34:17

That sure seems to be how things are shaping up in Tucson. By the time the foreclosure happens, the house is empty as a tomb.

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Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 12:56:58

We stuck it out till the end at wife’s condo; we were given almost two years and $1400 CFKeys to leave. We really wanted to recoup as much of my wife’s 80k downpayment(in “free” rent) as possible once we realized we were going broke. Of course we were also a little bitter that her $6,000/yr income and 700 FICO merited a 312k loan…root of the whole problem right there, underwriting standards and no-doc loans. Our experience prior to this house was that houses made you more money than you could ever spend. We lost out on this one, and the one in Utah rolling the dice, though.

Could have also leased the place from Fannie at the end with a little duplicity. The “honest” realtor representing Fannie planted that seed of an idea for us. As my wife and I have different last names; she had rental income coming in from various places over the time she had owned the condo; including Utah. She had even leased out the now foreclosed condo from time to time, when a nice rental came up closer to the kids school.

But we were not willing to lie to stay as much as we would have liked to stay and lease from Fannie. Left the place in FAR better condition than any other Fannie owned place we have seen for sale. Livable, basically, with blinds, doorknobs, hot water heater, dishwasher, microwave, etc. They even relented and allowed us to take our trophy fridge with us. My wife would never live in squalor; much less lie for personal gain. I guess I won the wife lottery as she is as close to an angel as I have seen….

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 13:37:56

I see a unit like my wifes on offer from Fannie; 219k is their wishing price. She paid nearly double, 390k, and 312k was loaned. So 100k underwater, what should one do knowing the home is gonna break ya? Other than not borrowing 300k on a 6k income in the first place?

 
Comment by jbunniii
2011-11-21 13:56:20

My wife would never live in squalor; much less lie for personal gain.

I’m curious whether she was truthful with her loan app regarding the $6k income vs. $312k loan. If so, then there was even less lender scrutiny of mortgage applications during the bubble than I would have believed, and I’ve been reading this blog since 2005.

 
Comment by Steve J
2011-11-21 16:22:15

I had to provide previous years tax return for the last house l bought.

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 20:06:27

Our loan officer told us the beauty of the no-doc loan meant that that no-documentation needed be provided; particulary in terms of income. He literally put a black line through many of the response lines on the application, I remember that.

She did have to prove that she owned her and my Utah home free and clear; and also she put 80k down. Either the mortgage broker filled in info without her knowledge or the collateral (meaningless in any concrete way in a non-recourse state other than to say she had some assets). Nothing regarding income; that would have made her uncomfortable and she would have relayed that to me.

 
 
Comment by Pete
2011-11-21 17:47:47

“The majority of FBs leave before the house gets taken back. I suppose they want to get on with their life.”

I can understand the sentiment, but why not use those months of basically ‘found money’ to save up for when you really do have to get on with your life (when they finally boot you)?

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Comment by Carl Morris
2011-11-21 18:11:51

I think most people…especially with kids…really don’t want to get to the point of actually getting booted.

 
Comment by Pete
2011-11-21 18:45:17

“I think most people…especially with kids…really don’t want to get to the point of actually getting booted.”

I suppose that’s true. I think I need to go watch “It’s a Wonderful Life”. Gettin’ around that time.

 
Comment by mikeinbend
2011-11-21 20:09:57

Getting booted is so civil; no sheriff, rather, a real estate agent repping for Fannie offering to rent you the house with no credit-check, or pay you to leave it within a few weeks, less $$ offered for more time. We got $1400 out of possible $1800 and stayed for a month post-auction date.

Then if you are a pain they evict you.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-11-21 22:33:54

People probably assume that it means furniture and toys on the sidewalk, being stolen and/or destroyed as you drive up.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Erik
2011-11-21 10:40:16

So the business “making custom cakes” wasn’t performing? Ferkrisakes!!
Why not buy a house for $285K and say you’ll pay the mortgage by opening a lemonade stand out front?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-11-21 10:44:16

A friend of the family had a cake decorating business. Her husband was an attorney in DC, and they lived in Chevy Chase.

ISTR hearing that the cake decorating biz was something she did to make a bit of money here and there. It was never thought of as the family’s main income source.

And can anyone else remember when selling real estate was the same sort of gig? You may have been a stay-at-home mom looking to make some part-time money. Or you might have been a teacher with summers off. That’s how you did real estate — on the side.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-11-21 10:45:14

My thought exactly but I didn’t bother writing a tirade about it. WTF is a “custom” cake? Is the plate chrome plated? This is the type of stupidity that blew mind mind during the bubble and still does. I can see driving a Hostess Cupcake delivery truck but slinging cakes out of your house?

Comment by JoJo
2011-11-21 10:57:13

I think they watched too many episodes of Ace of Cakes, not realizing that Duff Goldman a) went to culinary school, b) has a professional business, and c) got a lot of help starting out from his father (Gold’s Gym).

 
 
Comment by JoJo
2011-11-21 10:54:30

Gosh. I just don’t get it. Next you’ll be telling me that a candle shop won’t bring in enough to support a middle-class family!

Comment by jbunniii
2011-11-21 13:58:10

Amazing that it would even bring in enough money to pay the shop’s rent.

 
 
 
Comment by JoJo
2011-11-21 11:05:48

“One of the protesters was Cynthia Sexton, whose home was being sold. She was taken away in handcuffs while her adult daughter cried in the hallway and clutched a sale notice where the home she had grown up in was listed for sale.”

If the adult daughter grew up there, shouldn’t the house have been paid off? Wanna bet that Mommy refi-ed multiple times?

Just once, I wish the reporters would ask that question, and ask the homedumber where the money went.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-11-21 11:17:36

A few years ago, I was waiting in line at my credit union. The lobby was indeed a festive place, as a HELOC promotional event was in full swing. Complete with popcorn.

This was back during the “liberate your home equity” era. And, present company excepted, a lot of people fell for this sales pitch.

Me? I think I was just waiting to make a deposit, so no HELOC party popcorn for me.

Which is leading to my point: A lot of HBB-ers wouldn’t go near HELOCs if they were the last form of financing on earth. It’s just not how we roll.

Unfortunately, we the HBB-ers are in the minority. We’re just not that receptive to sales pitches, and that keeps us out of trouble. The trick is getting our more receptive brothers and sisters to be as skeptical and cautious with money and credit as we are.

Comment by JoJo
2011-11-21 12:32:43

I’m with you Slim. I wouldn’t do a HELOC unless it were literally a life or death matter, such as needing a kidney transplant.

I feel no sympathy for idiots who took out a second mortgage for a car, vacation or plastic surgery.

 
Comment by Overtaxed
2011-11-21 13:47:47

A HELOC, by itself, is an excellent form of credit. If you’re paying interest on a loan that over 4-5% today you should really have a HELOC. The biggest problem with them is what morons used them for. And also, you really should have the capital in the reserve to pay back the MTG+HELOC for 12-24 months before you even consider it.

But, if you’re in that situation, they are an excellent source of financing, the flexability they afford is really 2nd to none, and the borrowing costs are shockingly inexpensive.

I have a HELOC (unused, but I have it) that’s got an interest rate of around 3% right now. My muni bonds earn around 5% tax free, and I can borrow at 3% tax advantaged.. You tell me, how should you play this?

The thing is, you’re really playing the spread; and, with all things financial, you can get hurt. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re probably just better off selling the bonds and foregoing the HELOC.

And yes, I realize that my situation is totally opposite what many were using HELOCs for; if I drew mine all the way down I could pay it off at any time by selling bonds. But still, for some people, it’s a really great option.

Comment by The_Overdog
2011-11-21 14:16:03

If you are paying interest on a secured loan over 4-5% you mean. You’d be a gambler to consolidate credit cards or other unsecured debt with a HELOC.

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Comment by Overtaxed
2011-11-21 15:43:59

I agree with your premise; but, IMHO, you’re not taking much risk by buying bonds yielding 5% and not paying off your HELOC/mtg that has an effective interest rate of about 3%. Take the spread and keep the cash (rather than tie up more in the house). If the spread moves against you, then use the cash to pay off the loan.

This, of course, implies that you actually have the cash to pay off the loan (which, I realize, is probably not the “normal” situation).

 
 
 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-11-21 11:18:31

As BJ has so eloquently stated, telling the truth has no boo-hoo value.

(And all the Who’s down in Whoville will cry boo hoo hoo)

 
 
Comment by Patrick
2011-11-21 12:38:57

A loan modification and a short sale seem to be at odds. Why would a bank do a modification (presumably it taking the losses) rather than a short sale where F&F cover 100% ? That way their CDS junkers get paid out by the taxpayer completely.

Why doesn’t F&F say that if there is any proof of mortgage fraud there is no insurance? That will wake the banks up. And the bagholders too (whom I am not so certain are really bhs).

A disturbing notion is that the 50 to 1 banks are not distributing to the BHs’ but holding within their accounts - how they can do this would probably reveal another bank heist !

 
Comment by The_Overdog
2011-11-21 14:11:30

Sandwiched between a big SUV and an old, broken down Toyota that’s holding onto its bumper with a mess of twine, there’s a shiny silver Pontiac.

———-
Pontiac’s last car came off the line in 2009, so if that’s your idea of ‘prosperous’ and ‘new’, then whoa nellie….
On the other hand, the G8 is a great performer for a medium price.

Too bad they finally started making decent cars the year before bankruptcy.

 
Comment by timmy
2011-11-21 20:58:49

“‘You see people in all these nice cars lining up to get free food,’ said Jennie Probert, volunteer coordinator for the Utah Food Bank for Roy and Layton. ‘You’re quick to judge, ‘Can you afford that car?’ But it’s just a sign of the times.’”

I’ll bet you they ALL have IPHONES w/ all the latest “apps” & downloades of Lady Gaga.

**SIGH**

 
Comment by Arthur Adams
2011-11-23 15:38:31

Hi,
Its been great to visit your site(thehousingbubbleblog.com).I’m wondering that may I publish an article on finance such as insurance:auto,health,life,medical,forex trading,business,investment,loan,debt,inflation et al.

I would be greatly honored if you grant me the opportunity to be your guest blogger.Please, be rest assured that all my articles (of 450 words) are original and informative,and will be composed based on your readerships’ interest.

Your reply is highly solicited.

Thanks & Regards,

Arthur Adams
Financial Writer

 
Comment by Tony Hammer
2011-11-26 00:52:32

You shared some interesting articles. Very interesting what these publications have to say. Unfortunately, everyone was to blame during the boom years because there were no regulations on loaning money and everyone thought they were investors. I am a realtor in Fort Lauderdale, Fl. and the same applies here. There should be guidelines on loaning money but now they are too rigid.

 
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