Bits Bucket for December 9, 2011
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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US household wealth takes biggest hit since 2008 as stock and home values drop
By Dave Carpenter,
AP Business Writers
13 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans’ wealth last summer suffered its biggest quarterly loss in more than two years as stocks, pension funds and home values lost value.
At the same time, corporations raised their cash stockpiles to record levels.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-household-wealth-takes-biggest-170743179.html - -
Yep. And more to come.
If seventy percent of our economy is dependent on consumer spending and the wealth of these consumers is declining then it makes sense for corporations to raise cash because consumers, the ones who feed corporations cash, lately have been fresh out of the stuff.
70% of our economy is “consumer” spending?
We’ve lost 10 million jobs.
Real wages are still in decline and peanut butter always goes up.
Personal debt is being defaulted on at record levels.
The house ATM is busted.
Not enough taxes can be wrung from an exhausted population to feed our behemoth central government.
Giant financial institutions are collapsing left and right despite emergency infusions of “liquidity”.
Yet, that 70% number just hangs there.
Out here in Pleasantville, 70% of income goes to taxes and debt service. There must be a huge lot of people who consume 150% of what they earn to make this math work.
“70% of income goes to taxes and debt service.”
The part that goes to debt service is considered part of the consumer economy. It goes to the bottom line of large financial institutions. Just cause they aren’t spending their money wisely doesn’t mean that they aren’t contributing it to the economy one way or another.
There must be a huge lot of people who consume 150% of what they earn to make this math work.
Those would be the extra people w/extra cash created w/the mirrors of smoke and mirrors fame.
Silly me. I thought paying interest was consumption of the payer, not consumption by the payer. Words.
LOL!
Well said, Blue—and I completely agree! I was only relating how I think your example translates into economic stats currently, not how it should be counted.
Consumption of the payer—AWESOME.
Prime has it right.
It’s a Lucky Ducky life! USA! USA! USA!
unfurls 50 foot long flag and affixes “Power Of Pride” sticker to bumper of rusted-out Chevy Celebrity
Delaying retirement: 80 is the new 65
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — A quarter of middle-class Americans are now so pessimistic about their savings that they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years old — two years longer than the average person is even expected to live.
It sounds depressing, but for many it’s a necessity. On average, Americans have only saved a mere 7% of the retirement nest egg they were hoping to build, according to Wells Fargo’s latest retirement survey that polled 1,500 middle-class Americans.
25% of Americans plan to still work but do employers plan to keep on that many people over 65? When I was young we had an 75ish year old secretary for our department that was the most perfect employee, but she worked out of boredom not because she had to.
“On average, Americans have only saved a mere 7% of the retirement nest egg they were hoping to build …”
We are a nation of dummys.
“We are a nation of dummys.”
+1. Saving is not that hard; you just have to be willing to reduce your standard of living, and resist the desire to tap it for wants or needs.
“We are a nation of dummys.”
Wonderfully subtle, combo. +10
Yeah, we decided not to be too snobby about where our first home was. After moving in we found that our neighbors happened to be three kids under the age of 17 where Dad had moved out to live w/the new wife. The youngest was a 7th grader. Wild parties/drug deals abounded!
The guy one street over had done time for mob activity. My neighbor found out after he aimed his car at their 8 year old daughter while she waited for the bus. They hired someone to do a background check on this guy when the police seemed to avoid getting involved. A fence dispute had started it. They built it on what was their land by proof of their brandy new survey. He tore it down. Things only escalated from there.
The week we moved out about a 1/4 mile down the street one brother killed another during a home invasion. Yeah, I wasn’t gonna stick around and let my kids go to school w/those people. Didn’t matter how much we were saving.
Yeah, I wasn’t gonna stick around and let my kids go to school w/those people.
So moving a 1/4 mile down the road meant you were in a different school district?
(And, for the record, I know plenty of teenagers like that where Dad DOES still live in the home.)
No, the murder was a 1/4 mile down the road. Our first house by the way was on the coast. Not in CNY.
A point I may not have been clear on w/the neighbors is there was no mother in the house w/the kids either. I have no idea where she was or if she was even still alive. And no one seemed to care. These kids had no adult supervision besides a once a week stop over from Dad. There were no relatives stopping by. The school did not get involved. The neighbors did not get involved. I thought about dropping a dime to DSS but I was at home by myself w/2 young children A LOT with my husband 90 minutes away, and instead decided angering the guy was probably not in my best interest.
Yeah, but what about people who did all the right things (ie., my 74 year-old mother who just retired this year) only to have their retirement money yo-yoing up and down as the markets go insane?
That’s exactly why the notion of investing for retirement is such a bad idea. As Joe Nocera recently said, and I’m paraphrasing, investing is a talent that most of us will never have.
I’m intrigued by the idea of portable pensions, but need to do more reading. One of my reading stops will be at the books written by Teresa Ghilarducci.
If someone could tell me exactly why stocks do what they do, or why they are expected to increase above inflation for the next 50-80 years, I might be more comfortable with putting retirement money in the stock market.
“It just does” never cut it for me.
“On average, Americans have only saved a mere 7% of the retirement nest egg they were hoping to build …”
What is the age range of this survey? I mean, if you’re only 25-30 years old, you probably haven’t saved 7%. No doubt, it’s still not a good stat, but I wish the article were more clear.
KInd of hard to “build a nest egg” when:
1) Wages have been stagnant and even falling.
2) Banks pay less than 1% interest.
3) The stock market has done nothing in 10 years.
4) Your house is depreciating faster than you’re paying off the mortgage.
Condolence for Lucky Duckies: the bootstraps with which they failed to pull themselves up with can also be used to hang themselves
It’s also tough when:
1. You are constantly buying/leasing expensive cars/SUVs.
2. You are constantly remodeling your house.
3. You are going on lots of expensive vacations.
Unfortunately, there are examples of people not able to retire because they are stupid as well as ones who got screwed.
Those acts of stupidy are not required to make saving for retirement a daunting task, thanks to the “war on savers”. Even if you can set aside 15% your pay, if your return on it is 0 to 1% you’ll only have a few years of pay set aside when you retire. While definitley better than nothing, you won’t be able to retire on it.
Also, if you plan carefully, live frugally, and save for retirement, you have the pleasure of watching your savings inflated to worthlessness. It almost no longer makes sense to save anything. Think of the poor guy in Zimbabwe who put aside $1,000,000 20 years ago to support himself in his old age; now his entire savings account is inadequate to purchase even a small bowl of watery gruel. The same scenario is rapidly playing out here.
Eat your gruel peon! Quickly!
Also, if you plan carefully, live frugally, and save for retirement, you have the pleasure of watching your savings inflated to worthlessness
I saw this happen in Mexico City when I lived there during the high inflation days. Back then, gov’t workers would get huge year end bonuses: 90 days pay! (Private sector workers would “only” get 20 days pay)
The government used to run commercials on TV imploring people to not spend all of ther “aguinaldo”, but everyone knew that there was no point in saving cash as inflation would destroy it. Some tried to buy gold coins, but those were always in short supply.
I still have memories of people stocking up on things like hard liquor and other non perishables in December. The shopping malls were swarming with shoppers with fists full of pesos they wanted to spend before inflation took its cut.
Some people would spend the money on bricks and rebar, saving them for the day when they might start building their house (I had adult friends who were married and lived with mom and dad while they stockpiled construction materials in mom and dad’s yard.)
Those were “interesting” times.
I’ve stopped calling this future without work “retirement”. I now say “when I am no longer able to work”.
Retirement implies choice, a decision, a gold watch. What I will do involves none of those things. I will simply need to stop working because I will be too old/decrepit/dotty to do what’s asked. And I doubt it will be my decision.
I suggest everyone stop using the term “retirement” if you mean “no longer able to work”.
Or maybe “no longer getting paid to work” since that’s what seems to happen to engineers.
Love your Mexico stories, Colorado.
I’m planning to work until 70, if they’ll let me. If I get laid off, I think the trick is get working, anywhere, ASAP before UE lassitude sets in.
Love your Mexico stories, Colorado.
I enjoy sharing them, especially because it is far too easy to become parrochial in our outlook of how the world “works”.
If I get laid off, I think the trick is get working, anywhere, ASAP before UE lassitude sets in.
The trick is to jump ship for a new job before getting the scarlet “UE” pegged on you.
I’ve been laid off twice in my career. Both times I had to take a serious paycut at the next job. When I’ve jumped ship I almost always got more pay at the next cantina.
The key is ABL.
Always Be Looking.
Comment by DudgeonBludgeon
2011-12-09 09:29:31
I’ve stopped calling this future without work “retirement”. I now say “when I am no longer able to work”.
Retirement implies choice, a decision, a gold watch. What I will do involves none of those things. I will simply need to stop working because I will be too old/decrepit/dotty to do what’s asked. And I doubt it will be my decision.
I suggest everyone stop using the term “retirement” if you mean “no longer able to work”.
———————————————————————
BINGO….. It’s good to hear people are catching on. I’ve said it before…. retirement is a purely western 20th century idea. A company “retires” its old workforce and “rehires” new workers. Some how, the Free Shit Army co-opted and redefined the word.
“I’ve stopped calling this future without work “retirement”. I now say “when I am no longer able to work”.”
This has been my plan since I had 3 kids in college and 1 in preschool. That was when it dawned on me that we would not be saving much for retirement until the youngest was out of college. Then my husband had a cardiac arrest at 48 and I became the sole breadwinner for the household.
As the years rolled along, I decided that it was probably the best strategy due to uncertainty in the investment world, the ravages of inflation, and the potential for medical care to wipe out savings in short order. Uncertainty in the job market has led me to contemplate alternative careers. I expect to work at something until nobody will hire me.
Love your Mexico stories, Colorado.
+110%
Stupid folks like me who continued to rent because of the insane bubble prices. I do not want to be elderly and still renting, but at this point it looks like by the time I do buy a house I will be paying off my mortgage until I am 80.
sfrenter
I have empathy for you. We’re a cash & close and we can’t find a home in So Ca. Two years of looking so far. Prices are still way out of whack. They’ve done a decent job of this controlled collapse. It truly pisses us off.
What? one wakes up one morning and decides he should build a nest egg for retirement as if it is something he can do all at once?
Building a retirement nest egg is something a person should have been thinking of from the day he started working.
The 7% of where they should be is not just because of the misery of the last decade, it’s also frequently just because of bad planning.
The article posted a day or two ago about the family making $240k/yr comes to mind here.
it’s also frequently just because of bad planning.
It was posted here years ago that the golden age of humanity was the fifty year perior from 1955-2005; for that was the only time in human history that the concept of “retirement” not only existed, but was sustainable.
Outside of that five decade period, old age simply meant that you had a less physically demanding job.
I would argue during that period, many could have had a nicer retirement had they foregone a few “wants”: the leather seats in the SUV, the third bathroom, the extra 500 square feet necessary to house a “kids room”.
Am I the only one on the planet that weighs every “want” type purchase as a metric of “will this make me happier than the potential of working X days less during my life?”
I agree w/you overall. But w/moody and loud teenagers, that extra space is worth it to me especially as we increasingly cut out all the entertainment that gets us out of the home. But that’s ok. The way things are going we’ll just have it in the rental and then nix it when the kids are gone.
“Am I the only one on the planet that weighs every “want” type purchase as a metric of “will this make me happier than the potential of working X days less during my life?””
Nope! The book “Your Money or Your Life” jumps to mind, so I believe that there are probably more folks using that metric than you might think from a glance at our consumer-dominated society.
But what you describe is the correct lens through which to view time/money trade-offs, at least for me. There is limited time in your life, and your true “life’s blood” is that time. Work is one way to bleed it away, but you might prefer others.
“…so I believe that there are probably more folks using that metric than you might think from a glance at our consumer-dominated society.”
The savers quietly enjoy life without much attention, while the spenders get the attention in their victimhood.
victimhood - Like the short sale we view this week. Owned 27 years, sucked out $400K-$500K during the bubble,and is taking the only upgrade besides the needs fixing pool, the Viking stove. The house was beat up. Needed everything.
Boy, she was having a pity party to me. I almost had a technicolor yawn. Spare me the dramatics lady.
One comment to add on:
Big Bad BOA. They would not work with her. Not that I favor the criminal banks, but she downplayed her part. She’s a victim, my arse.
“I almost had a technicolor yawn. Spare me the dramatics lady.”
Would have been great fun to see her reaction if you responded with:
“What did you do with all the MONEY you pulled out, lady??”
I try to retire a little bit everyday.
Earlier this week, the Occupy movement honed in on foreclosed homes across the country. In over 25 cities across the country, Occupy protesters staged rallies on behalf of foreclosed homeowners facing eviction. Here in San Francisco, protesters congregated in the Bayview community to highlight the plight of a foreclosed homeowner in the neighborhood. Unfortunately, Occupy protesters didn’t seem to have done their homework.
On Tuesday, Occupy organizers descended upon 1279 Quesada Avenue, rallying around homeowner Vivian Richardson as she undergoes foreclosure proceedings. Calling herself the victim of predatory lending, Vivian Richardson purchased her home at 1279 Quesada Avenue for $215,000 in 1999. Beginning in 2002, the home was refinanced each year for larger and larger mortgages until 2007. In her last refinance in July of 2007, she borrowed $664,000 against her home – a $590,000 first mortgage and a $74,000 second mortgage – which was more than three times what she paid for it.
On Tuesday, Occupy organizers descended upon 1279 Quesada Avenue, rallying around homeowner Vivian Richardson as she undergoes foreclosure proceedings. Calling herself the victim of predatory lending, Vivian Richardson purchased her home at 1279 Quesada Avenue for $215,000 in 1999. Beginning in 2002, the home was refinanced each year for larger and larger mortgages until 2007. In her last refinance in July of 2007, she borrowed $664,000 against her home – a $590,000 first mortgage and a $74,000 second mortgage – which was more than three times what she paid for it.
At the risk of being flamed out to the planet Saturn, let me say this: Predatory lenders have had this not-so-nice habit of targeting members of minority groups. This is elaborated on in the book Broke USA.
They also have a way of targeting the elderly that involves a lot of ingratiation. As in, they’re such nice men and women, and how could they not be trusted?
To bring it down to the local level, a lot of Tucson’s fiddly loans to Hispanics by loan officers who were also Hispanic. Nothing like being hoodwinked by a paisano. Similar things have gone on the African American communities in other cities.
Slim sorry to flame ya…but it wasn’t about race it was about stupidity, and Stupid cut across all barriers. Why are there lots of foreclosures in rich white areas like Scarsdale and Greenwich?
At the risk of being flamed out to the planet Saturn, let me say this: Predatory lenders have had this not-so-nice habit of targeting members of minority groups. This is elaborated on in the book Broke USA.
Building a retirement nest egg is something a person should have been thinking of from the day he started working.
”
a lot of people I have worked with tend to pull their 401K money out when they change jobs
not smart with the 10% penalty and all, but its what they do. Probably have to listen to their sad stories in a few years when they are too old to get good jobs.
KInd of hard to “build a nest egg” when:
1) Wages have been stagnant and even falling.
2) Banks pay less than 1% interest.
3) The stock market has done nothing in 10 years.
4) Your house is depreciating faster than you’re paying off the mortgage.
And let’s not forget about the shift away from pensions to defined contribution plans like 401ks. Where you’re dependent on how well the stock market is doing.
Yes, I know. You don’t HAVE to put your 401k money in stocks.
But, for the average working schlub, 401k has been synonymous with stocks. There’s been quite a bit of marketing behind this mentality, and that marketing comes to us via the financial industry.
Yes, I know. You don’t HAVE to put your 401k money in stocks.
That’s right! You can put them into money markey funds and earn a whopping 0.75% interest rate on them.
So if you save for 40 years you might accumulate 4-5 years pay (and hopefully inflation won’t have destroyed it) at those interest rates and then earn a whopping 1% while in retirement.
At best it’ll be a supplement for your Social Security check, which the GOP is doing everything it can to eradicate.
At a .75% interest rate on savings, you’re just losing 2.5% of your purchasing power per year, based on the CPI numbers I posted yesterday:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
So if you save for 40 years you might accumulate 4-5 years pay (and hopefully inflation won’t have destroyed it) at those interest rates and then earn a whopping 1% while in retirement.”
Pretty sad, I think you should also have a paid off house which is not going to happen here in CA for me
oil city plan
I think this retirement thing is a good weekend topic ? have we had it before ?
“At a .75% interest rate on savings, you’re just losing 2.5% of your purchasing power per year…”
At least you have some ready cash, which is more than most folks these days. Or you could “invest” your savings with a Wall street crook who would steal it just to get the commission.
1) Wages have been stagnant and even falling.
2) Banks pay less than 1% interest.
3) The stock market has done nothing in 10 years.
4) Your house is depreciating faster than you’re paying off the mortgage.”
yea its tough the stock market had double digit gains in the 1980’s and 1990’s using up all its 10% per year allotment in these 2 decades. now we have to wait 2 decades for everything to catch up.
My simplistic view
This generation was sold a bunch of big lies, not believed by any other generation.
If you let us manage your funds, you will become rich without effort.
If you spend half your life servicing the debt on a big house, you will become rich.
You can retire with the standard of living that you enjoyed during your peak earning years.
Children should not be expected to help their parents in their old age.
Children are entitled to the best of everything, without working for anything.
& etc.
As I said, we are a nation of dummys.
“Delaying retirement: 80 is the new 65″
Now that depends on what you do.
Palm Beach Gardens to seek cutbacks in city police and fire pensions
By Bill DiPaolo Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 2:03 p.m. Sunday, July 10, 2011
PALM BEACH GARDENS — About one out of every eight property tax dollars last year went to city public employee pensions, a growing amount that city officials say must be reduced.
“Without reductions, the city will have to raise taxes or reduce services,” Mayor David Levy said.
Blame generous pension plans awarded to police and firefighter unions while the economy was booming, said Levy and others familiar with the city’s retirement system.
A police officer now can retire with 100 percent pay after 29 years. A firefighter can to retire with 99 percent pay after 33 years. Each can begin collecting a smaller pension if they retire at age 52.
“Politicians seeking police and fire union support promised them the world when the economy was booming. Now, it’s time to pay the fiddler,” said Gary Gomoll, a Palm Beach Gardens attorney and retired estate planner who spoke out about the issue
Last year, the city paid about $8.7 million from its annual $65 million operating budget for public safety and city employee pensions. That’s up from about $7.3 million in 2008.
If that rate of increase continues, the pension cost would grow to about $13 million a decade from now, according to city records.
Scores of Florida communities are struggling over employee pay and benefits.
One proposal would allow current employees to keep their benefits at the current rate. New hires would receive less in benefits. Other proposals Palm Beach Gardens is considering include:
- Raising the retirement age to 59 years old from the current 52.
- Eliminating cost-of-living-allowance raises, or COLAs.
- Calculating pensions on base pay only. Overtime and personal leave time is presently factored in.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/palm-beach-gardens-to-seek-cutbacks-in-city-1597224.html - 94k -
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The average compensation (salary and benefits) for a private sector worker in Palm Beach County is somewhere around $60K, and that worker is not likely to have a defined benefit pension. County staffers make a little more than this, teachers a little less, but both have good pension and health plans. In PBSO the average compensation is about $100K, but for Fire/Rescue it is $150K. Either special risk employee can retire at an early age on a high percentage of their salary, and then go start a different career. That private sector worker is paying some of that $60K to fund the salaries of the public sector workers who have better job security, higher pay and benefits, and likely work fewer hours. Is that an equitable arrangement? Will it last?
http://pbctab.org/2011/05/conversation-with-a-firefighter-paramedic/ - 63k
The solution is simple … leave Florida and move somewhere (like the Centennial state) where the gov’ts hands are tied when it comes to raising taxes.
From wikipedia:
“The most well-known example of TABOR legislation is in the state of Colorado.In 1992, the voters of the state approved a measure which amended Article X of the Colorado Constitution that restricts revenues for all levels of government (state, local, and schools). Under TABOR, state and local governments cannot raise tax rates without voter approval and cannot spend revenues collected under existing tax rates if revenues grow faster than the rate of inflation and population growth, without voter approval. Revenue in excess of the TABOR limit, commonly referred to as the “TABOR surplus,” must be refunded to taxpayers, unless voters approve a revenue change as an offset in a referendum. Under TABOR, the state has returned more than $2 billion to taxpayers.”
“Delaying retirement: 80 is the new 65″
I would point out that 65 used to be today’s 80, so to some extent this would merely represent a return to the days when SS was created. Payout was initially set _AT_ the then-life-expectancy, so only those exceeding it were really able to collect on it.
“25% of Americans plan to still work but do employers plan to keep on that many people over 65? ”
Ah, there lies the rub. My money is definitely on “no”. Age discrimination is real, _very_ real in some professions, and likely will become more broadly applied. The desire/need of aged workers to work , and the desire/need of employers to have a younger, cheaper, more able-bodied work-force will collide head-on.
It will not be pretty.
But will today’s obese Americans live past 65?
I was in North Carolina in October and was taken aback by the hordes of land whales I saw (compared to Colorado).
There’s no way those cholesterol clogged people will make to 70, much less to 80.
I think that the increase in the land whale population may have a bit to do with a corresponding increase in the use of the term “comfort food.” I don’t recall that term during my growing up years, when widespread obesity didn’t exist.
Fast forward to now, and you hear about comfort food all the time. I think it just points out the fact that a lot of people are using food to comfort themselves.
I speak from personal experience on this point. There was a time in my life when food was my source of comfort. The results were not pretty, believe me.
Overeating as a way of dealing with one’s problems is not the easiest habit to break. It’s not like kicking drugs or alcohol because you still have to eat. But it can be done.
I speak from personal experience on this point. There was a time in my life when food was my source of comfort. The results were not pretty, believe me.
“Arizona Fats” has a nice ring to it, doncha think?
Good, we need something to replace smokin’ and drinkin’ oneself to early death.
OMG did I really write that?
After visiting NC the reality of the “scooter nation” sank in. There really aren’t that ubiquitious in the Centennial state.
Colorado is still the most-fit, least-fat state, isn’t it? Must be quite a shock to visit the rest of America.
It’s strange for me because I’m pretty fat and out of shape by Colorado standards, but I’ve been places like the Chicago airport in front of the gate where a plane from somewhere like Wisconsin is unloading and suddenly I look like I just got out of the army.
That’s the idea. Of course by … oh … 1960’s standards we are a bunch of lard butts here.
“A quarter of middle-class Americans are now so pessimistic about their savings that they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years old — two years longer than the average person is even expected to live.”
When Social Security was invented, the retirement age and average life expectancy were each 65. That’s why the program is officially called Old Age Survivor and Disability Insurance (OASDI).
I don’t really believe working people are worse off now than they were in the 1930s. So I plan on retiring at 78.
“So I plan on retiring at 78.”
Me too! But I know I won`t be able to afford it so I plan on dying at 77.
FWIW, none of us knows what curveballs out bodies will be throwing at us in our old age.
My dad, who was reasonably healthy, suddenly passed away at the age of 73 from a stroke. He was not obese and was fairly active.
Exactly. Anybody who says or thinks they can plan perfectly for the future is either stupid or a liar.
“Anybody who says or thinks they can plan perfectly for the future is either stupid or a liar.”
Or joking.
But are you going to collect SS when you qualify for Full Retirement?
That’s what’s happening now - full retirement benefits and working both.
My understanding is that most pensioned state and muni employees don’t pay into SS and therefore won’t collect from it.
In some ways that could be very bad, as most of their pension funds are underfunded and taxpayers might revolt if forced to make them whole.
IIRC the Colorado fund (PERA) is projected to be bankrupt by around 2020 unless investments start delivering those “projected” 8% returns.
IIRC the Colorado fund (PERA) is projected to be bankrupt by around 2020 unless investments start delivering those “projected” 8% returns.
Whatever those projectors are smoking must be pretty good. An 8% return is a fantasy, to put it politely.
Figure on a 5% return *before* inflation, with anything over that figure being gravy.
“In some ways that could be very bad, as most of their pension funds are underfunded and taxpayers might revolt if forced to make them whole.”
Okay, maybe the “PBGC.gov” will cough up 70%; fingers crossed. That won’t put Fancy Fest on the menu, and you can forget about those Bounce dryer sheets that helps to control static cling and wrinkles. Oh…the humanity.
“…they are planning to delay retirement until they are at least 80 years old — two years longer than the average person is even expected to live.”
That is not going to work out well for many…
The multiple recessions over the last few decades has wiped me out.
“Retirement” might as well mean the same thing as “luxury yacht”, both of which I have an equal chance of having.
Dying suddenly while you’re still able to work will be best most can hope for. It’s kind of sad when you think of it.
Just happened to a friend of mine. His congenital heart defect finally caught up with him. Died at age 31.
Is this a great country or what?!
How bout dying suddenly while you’re having fun? That’s what I’m hoping for.
The squad retirement plan: start unroped, free solo, rock climbing at age 65.
Tomorrow’s reconnaissance mission: Longs Peak, the Diamond
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_(Longs_Peak)
Interesting retirement plan that the squad has there!
I can see the benefit, though: lots of good exercise, lots of excitement and adrenaline, savoring life’s highlights due to the healthy perspective that every day might be your last….
…payed for by mere seconds of abject terror during the one fall…
Congress Are Whores
They are infected with Politically Transmitted Diseases.
The squad wouldn’t say no to catching Michele Bachmann’s cooties, she’s a real looker I tell ya
Someone’s got a crush!
Carrie I sent you a mail.
Ok, I’ll check.
Like I said yesterday: it wasn’t her “winning personality” that won them over.
The “Bought Congress.”
Sounds like some central bank’s gonna have to buy up some CMBS
Banks May Not Refinance $156B of U.K. Property
“U.K. commercial real estate investors may be unable to refinance about half of their 201.3 billion pounds ($315 billion) of outstanding bank loans amid tightened credit, according to a study by De Montfort University.
About 85 billion pounds to 114 billion pounds “could not be refinanced on current market terms,” according to a June survey of lenders by the university near Leicester, England. The loans are too high compared with collateral property values. About 24 percent were worth more than the real estate backing them, it said.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-09/banks-may-not-refinance-156-billion-of-u-k-property-loans.html
Realtors Are Liars®
High court to mull role of bad papers in foreclosures
By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 9:13 p.m. Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011
GREENACRES — The Florida Supreme Court said Thursday it will rule on an already settled Palm Beach County foreclosure case because the opinion could impact the “mortgage foreclosure crisis throughout this state.”
The court was divided on the unusual decision to hear the settled case, which involves allegedly fraudulent bank documents.
But four of the seven justices said the legal question posed transcends the individual Greenacres homeowner and is one that needs to be answered for lower courts and litigants.
At issue is whether the bank can still be held accountable for fraudulent documents if it voluntarily dismisses the foreclosure case when challenged.
“This is wonderful and great news for homeowners in Florida,” said Royal Palm Beach-based attorney Tom Ice, who represented homeowner Roman Pino against the Bank of New York Mellon. “It’s all about whether a party’s right to dismiss trumps the court’s right to protect its own integrity.”
Ice said he couldn’t comment on the settlement his client reached with the bank or whether it could be affected by the Supreme Court’s decision.
The bank filed for foreclosure against Pino in 2008, saying it was the owner of the mortgage by way of an assignment from another lender.
A bank representative in New York said he didn’t have enough information about the case or the Supreme Court action on Thursday to immediately comment.
When Ice challenged the allegedly backdated assignment, the bank voluntarily dropped the case.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/foreclosures/high-court-to-mull-role-of-bad-papers-2021463.html -
Location Address: 3764 MIL RUN CT
Municipality: GREENACRES
Parcel Control Number: 18-42-44-24-24-000-0171
Subdivision: MIL LAKE ESTATES PLAT 3
Official Records Book: 20705 Page: 1651 Sale Date: Jul-2006
Jul-2006 20705/1651 $203,000 WARRANTY DEED PINO ROMAN
Tax Year: Taxable Value:
2011 $32,915
2010 $40,529
2009 $93,441
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/8/2006 15:22:42
CFN: 20060462161
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 20705/1653
Pages: 23
Consideration: $162,400.00
Party 1: PINO ROMAN
Party 2: MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
SILVER STATE FINANCIAL SERVICES INC
SILVER STATE MORTGAGE
Legal: 24 44 42 POR ACRE
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/8/2006 15:22:42
CFN: 20060462162
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 20705/1676
Pages: 5
Consideration: $40,600.00
Party 1: PINO ROMAN
Party 2: MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
SILVER STATE FINANCIAL SERVIES INC
SILVER STATE MORTGAGE
Legal: 24 44 42 POR ACRE
Type: LP
Date/Time: 8/20/2009 13:19:37
CFN: 20090287226
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 23402/583
Pages: 2
Consideration: $0.00
Party 1: BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON TRUSTEE
BANK OF NEW YORK TRUSTEE
Party 2: PINO ROMAN
PINO SPOUSE
MIL LAKE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION INC
MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
DOE JOHN
DOE JANE
Legal: MIL-LK EST 3 L17 L
Notice of Appeal Ice Legal, PA
Type: CP
Date/Time: 2/2/2010 17:28:46
CFN: 20100043134
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 23674/1552
Pages: 6
Consideration: $0.00
Party 1: BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON TRUSTEE
BANK OF NEW YORK TRUSTEE
Party 2: PINO ROMAN
PINO SPOUSE
MIL LAKE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION INC
MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS INC
DOE JOHN
DOE JANE
Legal:
Something odd happened right B4 I got a chance to copy the SAT from PINO ROMAN in 2011 on the county public records. I can`t get on the page, I get this.
You are not authorized to view this page
You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials that you supplied.
——————————————————————————–
Please try the following:
•Contact the Web site administrator if you believe you should be able to view this directory or page.
•Click the Refresh button to try again with different credentials.
HTTP Error 401.1 - Unauthorized: Access is denied due to invalid credentials.
Internet Information Services (IIS)
——————————————————————————–
Oh well it looks like PINO ROMAN took out a 100% loan for $203,000 in Jul-2006 stopped making payments after 8 months or so and has been given a place that the county now values at $32,915 down from $93,441 in 2009 and $40,529 in 2010 nice job by Ice Legal. I guess that`s why The Iceman said….
“Ice said he couldn’t comment on the settlement his client reached with the bank or whether it could be affected by the Supreme Court’s decision.”
Got back on and here is the Satisfaction of Mortgage, as near as I can tell it`s a free house for PINO ROMAN.
Type: SAT
Date/Time: 7/22/2011 15:39:46
CFN: 20110273248
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 24651/928
Pages: 3
Consideration: $0.00
Party 1: BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON TRUSTEE
BANK OF NEW YORK TRUSTEE
Party 2: PINO ROMAN
Legal: MIL-LK EST 3 L17 L
Jeff, While I agree that PINO ROMAN isn’t a very sympathetic character (and quite probably a total deadbeat) the real issue here is the willingness of the bank to forge documents to repo a house. While there’s nothing more I’d like to see that the bank held liable for that, I won’t hold my breath.
Oregon judge rules bloggers aren’t journalists
A recent court ruling has re-ignited the debate about whether bloggers are journalists.
“A U.S. District Court judge in Portland, Ore., ruled that a blogger who wrote about an investment firm that subsequently accused her of defamation must pay the company $2.5 million because she’s a blogger who doesn’t legally qualify as a journalist.
Crystal Cox, whose blogs are a mixture of fact, opinion, and commentary, wrote several posts that were critical of Obsidian Finance Group and its co-founder, Kevin Padrick. In one blog post, Cox accused Padrick of fraud while serving as trustee in a real estate bankruptcy case.
The firm considered the posts defamatory and filed a $10 million lawsuit (PDF) against Cox in January. The blog the court focused on during the case was more factual in tone, suggesting she had an inside source who was leaking her information. Obsidian demanded she reveal the source of her information to prove its veracity.”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57339016-93/oregon-judge-rules-bloggers-arent-journalists/
I’m sure Ben is safe as he makes few direct assertions and they are usually very controlled. But recently another blogger was upset at a lower level Federal Reserve employee’s Facebook post regardng the OWS crowd. Although usually equally reserved and well spoken, she went after this Fed Reserve employee w/an out of the norm vengence and her post included a lot of personal information about him. I thought she really left herself open. Be careful out there folks. They are watching.
It is never “safe” to criticize a psychpath, nor to look them directly in the eyes.
“In one blog post, Cox accused Padrick of fraud while serving as trustee in a real estate bankruptcy case.”
To the legal eagles here: Could a reporter make such as statement and not be liable? I always thought that’s why you see the word “alleged” in stories about crimes. Would Cox (or any of us) have been protected if she had used the words, “In my opinion…”
If you had a neighbor who was a well-known blogger and that person accused you of some criminal act, should you not have a means of redress?
Exactly. You should NEVER accuse anyone of a crime unless you have the facts to prove it… or you can prove it’s satire.
You can always accuse someone of being a terrorist. Better safe than sorry you know.
To the legal eagles here: Could a reporter make such as statement and not be liable?
My reading was the issue of protecting one’s source, not being liable for the actual allegations.
I agree. Since she wasn’t a true journalist, she doesn’t have journalistic confidentiality priviledges.
What’s a true journalist? They aren’t licensed or even need a college education to be one.
Paid for writing by a corporation?
This woman used to live in my Father’s hometown in Montana. I have a friend that knows her. I have never met her myself.
A U.S. District Court judge in Portland, Ore., ruled that a blogger who wrote about an investment firm that subsequently accused her of defamation must pay the company $2.5 million because she’s a blogger who doesn’t legally qualify as a journalist.
Good luck collecting that judgment, Mr. Investment Firm.
I don’t think the were doing it for the money. Trashing someone’s life to set an example to the others is what I’d call it.
There’s a term called a SLAPP suit - typically used by businesses for a long time to suppress criticism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation
I knew an anonymous poster to a business message board back in the 90s who got tracked down and served with papers. He won and was fortunate to have good lawyers, but it’s not terribly unusual.
David vs. Goliath comes to mind.
From the Wikipedia link:
“The typical SLAPP plaintiff does not normally expect to win the lawsuit. The plaintiff’s goals are accomplished if the defendant succumbs to fear, intimidation, mounting legal costs or simple exhaustion and abandons the criticism. A SLAPP may also intimidate others from participating in the debate. A SLAPP is often preceded by a legal threat.”
Now that that is settled, India can go ahead and censor Facebook. Since bloggers aren’t journalists, censoring FB won’t in any way hurt the freedom of the press.
I’m sure Ben is safe as he makes few direct assertions and they are usually
very controlled.rigorously attacked by Hwy50 & the Loony Tunes Gang! (ihho)Oregon judge rules bloggers aren’t journali$t$
But, butt, butt the $COTUS says FauxInc. is a “per$on!” Right? right? or your other left?
There is actually a house in my town built entirely from stacked cargo containers. I think it looks pretty cools and you never have to worry about termites…
———————————
Jodie Foster’s dad convicted of housing scheme
Yahoo - 9 DEC 2011
Jodie Foster’s estranged father faces more than 25 years behind bars after being convicted of bilking more than $100,000 from the poor and elderly in a home-building scheme.
City News Service reports that Lucius Foster was convicted of 21 misdemeanor counts of grand theft after a jury deliberated for about three hours on Wednesday. A Los Angeles judge is scheduled to sentence the 89-year-old on Thursday afternoon.
Lucius Foster was convicted of taking $5,000 each from 21 people for whom he promised to build affordable homes made from cargo containers. The units were never built, and prosecutors alleged he used blatant lies and charm to attract investors.
There is actually a house in my town built entirely from stacked cargo containers. I think it looks pretty cools and you never have to worry about termites…
I was facing a three-month temporary assignment in Juba, Sudan (now South Sudan) earlier this year, housing consisted entirely of used shipping containers. Packed and ready to go when the situation heated up a little too much and I was left in the states.
You can see the location it on Google Earth, east of the airport runway.
“25 years behind bars after being convicted of bilking more than $100,000 from the poor and elderly ”
Poor guy, he should have started a bank instead. He could have bilked a lot more 100% legally.
From the Denver Post: Hydraulic fracking linked for first time to groundwater pollution
“Hydraulic fracturing, a controversial oil and gas production technique used in Colorado and across the country, has been linked for the first time to groundwater pollution in a case near Pavillion, Wyo.”
It’s all good, we don’t need water. Brawndo’s got what plants crave
The Denver Post has never heard of Pennsylvania.
This is a mess that will make Occidentals Love canal disaster seem small. There is a gold mine on the horizon for large treatment plant designers and constructors.
Is Shell/others in your part of the state working on contracts with property owners? They’re in Syracuse. If you move outward into the hills to the south, there are anti-fracking signs in people’s yards everywhere which leads me to believe that even though there aren’t a lot of contracts in that particular area, they believe they’re too close for comfort. I believe the reason housing values spiked in the Ithaca area is because of their contract activity there.
In the Post Standard, there are more than a couple of posters that like to berate others for their hydrofracking safety concerns. They go on at length about the safety of the technology. Am I the only cynic that feels those posts come directly from the Shell satellite office? Except for homeowners wishing to make money off of contracts I can’t imagine who else would feel so vehemently about inviting this activity into the proximity of their home.
Metro Denver is especially dependent on acquifers for water. IIRC, 25% of Denver’s water supply is from acquifers, which are quickly being depleted (I have read that by some estimates they could be dry by 2030). Say buh-bye to your Kentucky Blue Grass lawn, metro Denver homeowner.
What’s a few hydrocarbons in the drinking water, between friends?
Cancer?
What’s a little cancer between friends, eh?
More cancer = more people who don’t have to worry about retirement = Social Security and Medicare solvency.
From certain people’s perspective, it looks like a win-win-win situation.
Like many other things, there is the “official/written policy” and the “defacto” policy. What’s really nice is when you can implement a policy by benign neglect, then blame your opponents when the results of the policy become clear.
Hydraulic fracking linked for first time to groundwater pollution
Halliburton Co. New$letter headline: “We’re in $hock & Awe!” really!
Big, fat, Simpsons’ Nelson Muntz HA HA to this
From the Wall Street Journal: Inflation Rate Seen Outpacing Home Prices For Years
The article is linked as subscriber content only but a google search on article title pulls up the full story…
ECONOMY
DECEMBER 9, 2011
Inflation Rate Seen Outpacing Home Prices for Years
By PHIL IZZO
The ailing housing market is unlikely to return to health before 2016 and is weighing on the two-year-old U.S. recovery, which finally is showing signs of picking up steam.
That’s according to economists in the latest Wall Street Journal survey, who expect home prices will begin to increase in 2012 but—by an 8-to-1 margin—don’t see prices outpacing inflation over the next three years. That means that the value of the largest investment for most consumers—their home—would fail to keep pace with increases in the cost of other items, such as food, clothing and gasoline.
The economists expect home prices as measured by the Federal Housing Finance Administration will be down 2.7% in 2011, but up slightly next year. They forecast that inflation will remain below 2.5% through at least 2014 after hitting 3.3% at the end of this year.
During previous recoveries, home values held down by recession climbed back. In the 1980s, home prices were outpacing inflation by the first full year of recovery, while in the 1990s that took three years. If the economists’ forecasts prove true, the pace of growth in home prices would still be below that of inflation after at least five years of a recovery that began in 2009.
Historically, housing has been a driver of recoveries. But the bursting of the real-estate bubble of the 2000s has turned the sector into a drag on growth. An excess supply of homes has held back construction and price declines have weighed on consumer sentiment.
“Expectations for continued home-price appreciation, built upon the experiences of the post-World War II period, set the tone for the strategy to buy a home today in anticipation of capital gains down the road. This ended with the Great Recession,” said economists at Wells Fargo.
…
“The ailing housing market is unlikely to return to health before 2016″
To be fair, they didn’t say it was likely to return to health by 2016, just that it still won’t return to health by then. Even if it’s unlikely to return to health until 2020, it’s still unlikely to do so by 2016.
So give ‘em a break already.
a n-hood house that a friend bid 300k for was sold to a flipper for 340k. The address is 5649 Ventura Canyon Van Nuys Ca 91401. he then fixed it up it is now on the market for $ 499,000. This house is driving me nuts,with the quality work the flipper did,he rehabbed the entire house. i dont see any profit in this flip. i would appreciate the feedback from the readers here.
Sounds like the house across the street from me. Investor bought it in the spring of 2006, hired a guy to renovate it inside and out, and finally got it on the market in the summer of 2007.
Investor bought it for $100k and sold for $205k. With all the time that his worker spent on the renovation, which was very well done, I don’t think that there was much profit.
A half million house is still a half million dollars.
72 million people of the 156 million workforce make $500 week or less. Only 10% of the workforce makes 250K and up. That makes for a pretty tight market of qualified buyers and the days of NINJA loans are over.
I wouldn’t want to own that house right now.
Quit yer bellyaching class warfare already. With a little bootstrappin’ those Lucky Duckies can someday aspire to make $510/week
can someday a$pire to make $510/week
howmuchi$thatamonth?
(Inquiring MegaBanker$ wanna know!)
“A half million house is still a half million dollars.”
+1 It is a lot of money especially if you have to pay it back.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5649-Ventura-Canyon-Ave-Valley-Glen-CA-91401/2126891945_zpid/
Cute little house, but good luck getting $500K or even $460K.
He did do a good job, but he wants a too high ROI imho.
We looked at one flip of quality, and it came down $80K before it sold. They could not find an emotional buyer. The comps could not support the price.
btw I grew up in that area. Bellaire (Whitsett)/Magnolia
Cameron rejects ceding British control of its finances to Brussels
“We wish them well,” Cameron told reporters after all- night euro-crisis talks in Brussels ended early today. “My judgment was that what was on offer just wasn’t good enough for Britain. It’s better to allow those countries to do their own thing on their own.”
In a clash that may reshape Europe’s balance of power, the 17 euro countries opted to enshrine closer fiscal union in a new treaty that leaves out the U.K. instead of amending EU agreements that date back to the 1950s. Nine non-euro members — Denmark, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Sweden, the Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania — indicated they may follow suit.
The trigger was Cameron’s refusal to back a 27-nation pact without ironclad guarantees of a British veto right over future financial regulations. Cameron called them a threat to London’s standing as Europe’s leading financial center.
Cameron, speaking to reporters in Brussels today, twice refused to rule out Britain one day leaving the union altogether. “British membership is in our interest and I have always said that if that’s the case I will support our membership,” he said.
Yesterday, Conservative lawmaker Edward Leigh referred in a debate to Neville Chamberlain, made infamous for striking a deal with Adolf Hitler in the run-up to World War II. He warned Cameron not to return from Brussels “with a kind of Chamberlain-esque piece of paper saying, ‘I have negotiated very, very hard, I have got opt-outs on this and that and I have succeeded.’”
[ed. note: Ouch.]
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-09/cameron-brings-britain-full-circle-from-heath-in-split-with-rest-of-europe.html
Another headline might read
Cameron protects bankers right to strip wealth from the rest of hte population so he can get a cut of it.
Chamberlien delayed the inevitable and gave Britain time to prepare for the war.
Hopefully, Cameron has delayed enough this time to allow Britain to prepare for the coming financial war.
Then there’s London as a world financial center to protect. Some would say London and not Wall Street is the true center of the world oligopic lever pullers.
“London generates approximately 20 per cent of the UK’s GDP[148] (or $446 billion in 2005); while the economy of the London metropolitan area—the largest in Europe—generates approximately 30 per cent of the UK’s GDP (or an estimated $669 billion in 2005).[149] London is one of the pre-eminent financial centres of the world and vies with New York City as the most important location for international finance.[150][151]
London’s largest industry is finance, and its financial exports make it a large contributor to the UK’s balance of payments. Around 325,000 people were employed in financial services in London until mid-2007. London has over 480 overseas banks, more than any other city in the world. Currently, over 85% (3.2 million) of the employed population of greater London works in the services industries. Due to its prominent global role, London’s economy has been affected by the late-2000s financial crisis. The City of London estimates that 70,000 jobs in finance will be cut within a year.[152] The City of London is home to the Bank of England, London Stock Exchange, and Lloyd’s of London insurance market.”
Wikipedia…London, Economy
Bagholder identification continues. The wolves and the sheep debating what to have for dinner. With the sheep not really paying attention.
EU Leaders Drop Demands for Investor Write-Offs
By Simon Kennedy and Rebecca Christie - Dec 9, 2011 10:06 AM ET
European Union leaders dropped their demand that investors share the cost of bailouts as Germany abandoned a campaign that helped deepen the two-year-old financial crisis.
…
That marks a defeat for German Chancellor Angela Merkel who wanted to expose bondholders to losses in debt restructurings as her electorate resented writing the biggest bailout checks. Her push, which began last year, drew criticism from a European Central Bank concerned it would fan contagion and was blamed for some investors for driving up bond yields and forcing Ireland and Portugal to seek aid packages.
“They underestimated the contagion effect,” said Michael Leister, a fixed-income strategist at WestLB AG in London.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-09/eu-leaders-drop-demands-for-investors-to-take-writeoffs-in-future-bailouts.html
“EU Leaders Drop Demands for Investor Write-Offs”
And what’s wrong with investors taking an occasional loss?
Little do they know they are going to share that pain anyway.
I saw this today and I thought some of you might find it interesting. Even though I don’t agree 100% with Ron Paul, I respect the fact that he is willing to go against the norm in Washington and appears to have been pretty consistent about his views.
http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-youth-vote-2011-12
I’ll never forget the evening in late 2007/early 2008 when someone came a-banging on my door. It was after dark, and unless I’m expecting you to come visit me, I don’t open the door.
What really aroused my suspicions was where the door-banger went next. And that was into an alley down the street where respectable people don’t go at night.
Figuring that this was someone casing my house, I called 911.
The cops caught up with the door-banger a few blocks away. Turned out that it was some youthful Ron Paul supporter banging on my door because he had a CD that I just had to watch! Right now!
Ummm, kid, Tucson Campaigning 101: Do your door-to-door canvassing during the daylight hours, mmm-kay?
“Ummm, kid, Tucson Campaigning 101: Do your door-to-door canvassing during the daylight hours, mmm-kay?”‘
Yeah, kid. And not during football hours!
Regarding disturbing people when they don’t want to be….
When I was ten, I was honking the horn of our car (my mom took forever to get out of whatever store/friend’s house she was in). After the fifth honk or so, a woman comes out of her house and up to the fence that was adjacent to the parking lot we were in. To quote, “If you honk that horn one more time and wake MY BABY UP, I’m gonna come over there and give you a PUNCH!”
To this day, I’m cautious on the horn. I don’t know what lesson the Ron Paul kid can learn from this, but I’m sure there’s one in there somewhere.
I just wanted to clarify a story I told further upthread. It was about a house of boys where the Dad lived in another town w/his new wife. I neglected to mention there was no mother in the house either. Those boys hs aged to 7th grade lived there on their own w/no adult supervision.
Housing question: tomorrow I am going to view a house w one of the dreaded Realtor ilk.
The property was last sold in October 2007 for $610. It is currently assessed by the county for $258. The owner of record is an outfit identified as an ‘intermediation company’. The house is now listed for $300, recently reduced from $325. It has been on the market a bit less than 60 days.
The realtor told me the house is now rented by ‘family’ of the owner. I’m not sure exactly what an intermediation company DOES, but I suppose the renters could be relatives of company principals.
The house is located on 4 acres in a fairly distant rural Maryland suburb. I think it might be unattractive to many buyers bc there is a transportation company right next door, and a smelly-at-times farm directly across the street. I like the house — a smallish all brick rancher — and the property, which is all fenced pasture and fields, without deer-and-hunter harboring woodlands.
Questions: does ownership by the intermediation company suggest the house has been foreclosed upon?
And does the property assessment suggest that it would be difficult for an appraisal to meet the seller’s wishing price?
I sold my house in 2007 and have been renting ever since, but this is only the 6th house I have actually gone to tour bc I am very, very picky about property features and also have a low budget. So really, I am not that experienced with this stuff.
13 Cities Where Home Prices Are Falling Dangerously
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mhj45gihj/cities-where-home-prices-are-falling-dangerously - 58k
I looked through it and never figured out why they used the word “Dangerously”.
Because falling house prices could bop you on the head, and you would blame Forbes for not warning you.
Looks like I’d better take my own advice. Tucson’s one of those dangerous falling house price markets.
I _wish_ house prices would fall “dangerously” in my area!
+1 Carl.
The MSM never used “dangerously” when prices were on the way up.