The Housing Bubble

Job or no job, at some point you have to stand up on your hind legs and claim some dignity.

And having a couple years cash in the bank does wonders for one’s dignity.

You’ve got that right. Im not FTE anymore, but having the cash stash changes the whole scenario. It becomes the “I can work or I can golf, and its my choice”

Have you noticed how nice and gracious so many rich people are? They don’t have to be cynical or stressed because they don’t have to compete. They ALWAYS have the option of simply saying Oh Well and walking away.

I see what you’re saying, but I’ve found that just spending less than I make has mostly the same effect. Being able to back off a bit from the rat race makes me nicer and more gracious, too.

Chicken, turkey, and pork yes. Beef is the same, has nitrogen injected in packaging to prolong color. No difference between that and what the local stores sell.

The packages are very clear on all of them about what and how the meats are handled.

I’m talking about the use of saline solution to make the meats ‘perma-moist’. It’s on the labels: ‘contains up to 10% solution of…’

I thought the produce and meat both were pretty good at Wally World. Better fruit in summer, at least.

…also, Walmart seems to be the only place to carry calves liver anymore. If you’re into that.

Quick Wal-Mart kudos. Wal-Mart sells hormone free milk. They don’t ruffle their feathers about it, but as a Breast Cancer Prevention Activist I follow this closely. I went to a class with a UCLA associate speaker about BC prevention, and she confirmed it.
The health ranger wrote this:
http://www.naturalnews.com/024228.html

Monsanto’s growth hormone sales is why Wal-Mart doesn’t label their milk hormone free. A quick cursory read of the article, gives you the idea Monsanto will sue.

Memo to Monsanto: Wal-Mart isn’t exactly Little Joe Farmer that you’re used to suing shaming and bankrupting. But please go ahead; try to get between Wal-Mart and profit. I dare you.

oxide
Monsanto is even bigger $ than Wal-Mart, but I hear ya. I wish I was rich so I could truly avoid all Frankenfoods. I don’t eat/drink milk products, but a lot of women do, so why not steer them towards hormone free products.

Colorado
We stopped shopping at the regular market 15 years ago, and we were affluent back then. Lean proteins and veggies are our main staples. Grocery stores are packed with frankenfoods.

We go to local small chains and Costco for lean proteins. The rest of the stuff we pick up at dollar stores. For instance, we found a great black pepper blend at The 99C Only store. Whole Foods quality for only a buck. Frugal shoppers are waking up. I talk to a lot of people when I shop.
Yeah, the poor shop cheap, but so do people who know the value of a buck.

http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

there must be a way, and I would wager this is an excellent bet.

Lease with an option to buy in two (five?) years at today’s market price with a clause that assignment cannot be unreasonably withheld and have a six month closing period (don’t need it until spring planting, etc). Before closing find someone to assign the lease to who thinks the price will increase between now and two years hence and is willing to pay a premium today. Make sure you have wiggle room with the landowner (a get out clause) and make sure you get cash from the buyer of your lease.

Not really a true short. But it works really well. Up until now for everybody. Except for some pineapple costs it returns very large.

Note: this is a super short description; not investment advice

It takes a long time to build mills, foundries, machine tools and equipment, along with supporting industries that supply power and raw materials.

Agreed, which is why we should start now.

so companies have been going not only where labor is cheap, but where onerous regulations make doing any type of environmental sensitive work financially impossible

FWIW, we’ve heard the horror stories abou how the Chinese have trashed their environment for the sake of “business”.

Clean water isn’t too much to ask for.

I call BS, drummin. It took less than 30 years to move almost everything overseas. It will take no longer to bring it back.

Businesses aren’t fighting regs to stay alive. They are fighting regs because they want to get ahead even more.

This country was so much better when it was satisfied with natural profit assiciated with providing goods and services.

Dio:

How about bulldozing the mcmansions in FloorRiddah and putting back the orange groves

My OJ is now from China!

How about we start making our own “crap” again and stop buying from China and elsewhere?

DJ,

There is a product being sold that is still 100% Florida OJ. I believe it called something like “Florida’s Natural”

I will be arriving in China next week. The only thing I am willing to drink there is Coca Cola and Budweiser…for the next few weeks.

Ben

I think this is a big point. It doesn’t seem reasonable for the banks to be not forclosing on insured mortgages. Therefore, I think they might be getting paid off their mortgage insurance proceeds and writing off the uninsured balance.

It would then be up to F&F to foreclose which would then make this housing mess a federal problem.

Does anyone on HBB know how this works for sure? Polly?

No idea, but since F&F are providing insurance, you can’t know what the loss is until the foreclosure has happened.

The banks aren’t forclosing because they don’t OWN the mortgages. They are servicers. When they go through with the foreclosure they lose a steady stream of income from their contract servicing the bonds.

‘will mindlessly shuffle into the voting booth’

I listened to the Presidents speech the other day. He is basically adopting their platform. Will the OWS turn into a voting block for Obama? That would be ironic, since he set the homeland security apparatus on them.

I listened to the Presidents speech the other day. He is basically adopting their platform. Will the OWS turn into a voting block for Obama? That would be ironic, since he set the homeland security apparatus on them.

They have always been a voting block for obama.

‘They have always been a voting block for obama’

I don’t think that’s entirely true. I mentioned before that one OWS guy said they weren’t falling for the two party dictatorship.

Back when they had a lot of momentum, you were saying they would sputter out. It remains to be seen, but they face declining attention now.

There were signs early on that they would take on globalism. I was hoping they would run with that as it’s more of a reason why earning are down than anything else, IMO. With all the hub-bub about the upcoming elections and political posturing, I can’t think of any candidate that is loudly asking why we continue to ship jobs overseas.

Historically, I could be expected to vote Obama. He’s so similar to the hard-right GOP line, though, that there seems to be little point in it. I suspect many OWSers would agree.

“I mentioned before that one OWS guy said they weren’t falling for the two party dictatorship.”

A small sample which doesn’t necessarily represent the majority opinion any more than a few vocally anti-semitic OWS people represent the majority opinion.

“Back when they had a lot of momentum, you were saying they would sputter out. It remains to be seen, but they face declining attention now. ”

Over Thanksgiving Dinner we had a discussion regarding OWS… Others (slightly younger than I) thought it would sputter out, but I think it’s too early to tell.

Had to remind them that it had only been going on for a couple of months, which is really not long to “get your act together” at all.
For example, people don’t remember that the opposition to the Vietnam War built up over years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_U.S._involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War

In our current world of faster communications and near-instant-gratification, we’re expecting things to happen more quickly than is realistic, if we want real solutions.

We’ve got some people who are finally realizing that something isn’t right with the Social Contract and angry about it, but you can’t expect that emotion to become focused without some time.

If communications are faster, then one would expect support to build up faster proprtionally.

Just because we can “communicate” faster does not mean that people learn any faster.

Formulating an adjusted world view and acting (rationally) on it takes time, especially if you have to take strong emotions (anger, confusion and frustration) and channel it (hopefully) into something productive.

It’s not just about the speed at which communications flow; it’s also about how long it takes people to digest information, and decide how they feel about the issue.

Information flows much faster today, but we have not changed as much.

“doesn’t necessarily represent the majority opinion any more than a few vocally anti-semitic OWS people represent the majority opinion.”

Love it when folks with your bent(s) extrapolate an anti-Semitism of a movement that you don’t like from a few wing-nuts when, in reality, you’d be champing at the bit to be an Einsatzgruppenkommander if things actually went that way.

“I don’t think any differently. ”

Nor do I, but we are both well aware of the fact that the vast majority of America’s wealth is concentrated in the hands of the very few. This, however, is news to Joe6pack, who, as polls have shown, both thinks that wealth is more evenly distributed in the US than it really is, and who also thinks it should be more evenly distributed.

It now appears that Joe6pack is slowly becoming aware of the great wealth disparity in modern-day America, even if only by using the term ‘1%er’ to refer to the very rich. That expression alone reminds everyone about the wealth disparity.

That’s how issues are brought forward into the public mind.

“an article with Delaware occupy protesters. Go look at the photos; they look like senior citizens to me.”

Excellent! We need them on board. Goes to show it’s not all college kids/anarchist hippies like we’re told.

“I drive a lot and listen to radio shows. What I hear more these days are put downs of the OWS and even making fun of them”

Well, they would, wouldn’t they? I would expect nothing less from talk radio. That’s where right-wing minds are warped and programmed with talking points. We all know that, right?

‘I would expect nothing less from talk radio’

First, I listen to a lot of NPR. Have you ever noticed that they report what the stock market is trading at every 10 minutes, like it’s the health of the nation?

I haven’t listened to the Fox-like stuff much in the past, but I have the last week or so. Jeebus, these guys spend an hour making a point that could be summed up in 1 minute. These shows are 24/7 against Obama, unless they are talking about bombing somebody. And of course, Obama is actually bombing people everyday, but it isn’t enough bombing for them.

‘We need them on board’

I’ve tried to say this, but one poster here insists the movement doesn’t need anybody.

NPR - a very left wing news organization supported by the taxpayers

Fox News - a right wing news organization NOT supported by the taxpayer

That is the real difference.

A few months ago we discussed the risk of OWS getting co-opted by astro-turf organizations much like the T party was. Recently OWS seemed to shift their focus to Occupy:Foreclosure. M. Moore seemed to be behind it and I listened to his rhetoric on the housing “crisis” as he championed “principal forgiveness”. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I like M. Moore, I don’t agree with him on everything but he’s right on the fundamental point that the 1% (or fraction of) are our masters, like it or not. Any movement will be marginalized when public figures speak for the movement and narrow the cause down to specifics while it’s still in it’s infancy stage. He’s an idiot and needs to stay the fawk out of it. Speak from the sidelines as a casual or keen observer.

Sorry Ben, but there’s an element of social conservatism that the squad could never be “on board” with…

I had the “pleasure” of tuning into this guy “Michael Savage” during my road trip across no-mans land to the guitar shop Tuesday evening. Good God what a vile character he is. Clearly he is a law and order authoritarian. He stated the OWS at Port of LA “need to be crushed” because they’re “impeding the flow of goods from Asia”. The “flow of goods from Asia” is part of the problem, not the solution.

‘NPR - a very left wing news organization’

Oh really? They don’t have a word to say against bombing everyone on the planet now that a Democrat is pulling the trigger. You know, we used to have opposition in this country. Now it’s just the War Party. NPR never says anything against globalism either, which is what really hurts most working people.

As for funding, what I gather from their ads is they get a lot from those mega-rich “foundations” pushing “global this and global that.”

“I have yet to hear anyone say something like this in actual conversation. ”

Ben, they JUST QUOTED a neighbor in the newspaper saying something like that in actual conversation.

I mean face to face.

Strangely enough, 2banana, the libs refer to NPR as Nice Polite Republicans. Ben’s observation of obsession with the DOW appears to support the lib side.

‘this guy “Michael Savage”

Yeah, I listened to him some too. I get the impression these guys are like shock jocks, trying to be outrageous on purpose. Nobody could be that simplistically full of rage and be taken seriously.

There’s all different flavors of this stuff. Rush Limbaugh; now here’s a real piece of work. He’s off the prescribed heroin now I guess, but you would think he’s that guy on the Dos Equis commercial from the way he talks about himself.

Anyway, like I said, they spend forever making the tiniest point and really spend more time flogging chocolate covered strawberries and such.

“… trying to be outrageous on purpose.”

This translates into ratings.

There is a slice of listeners that are into that sort of thing and it is this slice that is addressed.

No marketing void shall remain unfilled.

“I’m screwed and it has to be somebody else’s fault because it’s not possible it could be my fault.”

Among the neocon talk radio sock puppets, Limbaugh is known and referred to as “the godfather.”

That is the real difference.

Darn iffin’ FauxInc. Muckraker News-journali$m of the highest order in America isn’t quite yet finished advocating:

“Where.is.the.damn!.non-Hawaiian.birth certificate!!!!!!!!!!”

First, I listen to a lot of NPR. Have you ever noticed that they report what the stock market is trading at every 10 minutes, like it’s the health of the nation?

That’s why I don’t bother listening to them anymore. They are now so beholden to their corporate sponsors (I’m guessing that those ever present fund raisers/begathons don’t raise all the much money anymore) that they have become yet another branch of the Corporatist “Pravda” media we now have.

NPR - a very left wing news organization supported by the taxpayers

You’re behind the times. Their public funding has been drying up and they run commercials now.

I had the “pleasure” of tuning into this guy “Michael Savage” during my road trip across no-mans land to the guitar shop Tuesday evening. Good God what a vile character he is

He reminds me of “Prothero” (The Voice of London) in “V for Vendetta”.

As for funding, what I gather from their ads is they get a lot from those mega-rich “foundations” pushing “global this and global that.”

Exactly, they are sell outs. If you want decent reporting, you have go outside the US. I wonder how long until foreign news organizations are blocked from US internet access?

Strangely enough, 2banana, the libs refer to NPR as Nice Polite Republicans.

Funny how when republicans try to pull funding for NPR the liberal democrats defend it like a bear defending her cubs…

Now that government funding has dried up, NPR is becoming more politicized, featuring plugs for its major donors, such as the National Association of Realtors.

“You’re behind the times. Their public funding has been drying up and they run commercials now.”

One thing I notice about right wing extremists is that they have little respect for the facts, preferring to shell out boat loads of propaganda reflecting their religious views.

One thing I notice about right wing extremists is that they have little respect for the facts, preferring to shell out boat loads of propaganda reflecting their religious views.

At least they do it with their own money.

One thing I notice about left wing extremists is that they have little respect for the facts, preferring to shell out boat loads of propaganda reflecting their views USING TAXPAYER MONEY.

“Their public funding has been drying up and they run commercials now.”

Then they should be required to remove the “public” from their name.

Last week my department had its annual meeting to discuss the amount of money that would be extorted from each of us to give holiday gifts to the less-well-compensated workers who work in the trenches, so to speak. This gathering usually generates heated discussion, after which the session concludes in a cloud of rancor and feelings of yuckiness.

One of my colleagues–who really IS in the 1%, thanks in no small part to running a private side business on company time, and who is the biggest promoter of this forced giving–actually said “they are the 99%” while defending his pet project. Several of the younger and less-well-compensated among us informed him that, while HE might be in the 1%, WE are not, as defined by the Wall Street Journal.

So yes, those terms are being used in conversation.

At least they do it with their own money.

Indisputable facts:
Left-wing extremists make 17% more money than right-wing extremists and 58% of left-wing extremists can kick-the-snot out of 62% of right-wing extremists.
source: the internet

I had the “pleasure” of tuning into this guy “Michael Savage”

Micheal Savage is just a made-up name. The guy is just a creepy actor like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter. They go where the money is.

“Makeme $avage” The guy is just a creepy actor like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter. They go where the money is.

Ra$h Limpbaugh$ / American “Truth$layer” = $htick + lil’ blue pill makes jack a happy happy boy.

Definition of SHTICK
1
: a usually comic or repetitiou$ performance or routine
2
: one’s $pecial trait, intere$t, or “Bidne$$ activitie$

A direct quote: “You don’t even have to think!, I’ll think for you!”

One of the partisans with the most entertaining, hilarious schtick is Reverend Al. You wanna laugh every day? Watch him.

WRT sources outside the US, read the UK Guardian and the Financial Times.

Funny how when republicans try to pull funding for NPR the liberal democrats defend it like a bear defending her cubs…

Given NPR’s lack of funding they haven’t been all that successful. Now hush, it’s time for the news, brought to you by Monsanto and ADM.

“NPR - a very left wing news organization supported by the taxpayers”

I like my local PBS stations because they cover news I can’t get anywhere else. I hear discussion of local issues and news stories from across the globe that are not on Fox nor MSNBC nor CNBC nor CBS/ABC/NBC nor Bloomberg. Local news at 6 and 11 will sometimes cover the local issues, but not in depth.

I like the storytelling shows like This American Life, Day 6, The Tobolowski Files, Radiolab, and Snap Judgement. I like the panel shows like Says You and Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell me. Most of these shows have no obvious bias and are not focused on politics. The local issue shows will always have people on talking about the issue from multiple perspectives.

““The 1 percent live here. It’s not what you would anticipate to happen here.”

They weren’t quoting me.

Yeah, I listened to him some too. I get the impression these guys are like shock jocks, trying to be outrageous on purpose. Nobody could be that simplistically full of rage and be taken seriously.

Before Glenn Beck took up his current line of work, he was a shock jock.

It now appears that Joe6pack is slowly becoming aware of the great wealth disparity in modern-day America, even if only by using the term ‘1%er’ to refer to the very rich.

It’s true. I’ve noticed it on other blogs and on facebook where some of my right-wing friends are acknowledging these kinds of things that they never had a clue of before.

i understand the left’s hatred of glenn beck…but damn…he deserves some credit for being the only MSM persona talking about the economic calamity we are in.

he took seriously some of our favorite experts while other shows laughed at them.

slogans are for cattle

Dude,that’s a great slogan!

Bananas,

Have you considered changing your user name to Partisan Potatohead® ?

Dude,that’s a great slogan!

like i said

like i said

Nice!

Michael…. have you considered changing your name to Hogans Slogans® ?

Hogan!!!!

I know no-szink; I hear no-szink!

What’s up doc

Especially if it can last a lifetime.

Anything to make sure the “right” people stay in control. Everything else is fluff.

And it makes the big players much wealthier in the long run.

Nah, playing hard to get……

Plagerized, but I can’t remember from whom.

combo
Thank you for posting it. LOL

It does sound like a Groucho-ism.

HWY
LOL
I like that.

One might argue that by ancient society standards you were married already. The concept of marriage being a “legal contract” separate from religion is somewhat recent. If anything, it probably arose in the West as a result of the Reformation, as there was no longer a single church to keep track of such things.

Jewish marriage is a legal contract. Has been for thousands of years.

Southern Baptists dance?

Q: Why don’t Southern Baptists like sex?

A: It’s too much like dancing.

I’ve heard the first line in that joke posed another way:

Q: Why don’t Southern Baptists have sex standing up?
…

Imagine that.

Most people should marry in their 30’s

to 18 and 19 year olds.

Early marriages lead to divorces. Most people should marry in their 30’s.

Probably due to financial problems as well as the inherent lack of maturity, especially in todays young adults (my Dad always used to harp about how my generation was so much less mature than his). Back when you didn’t need a Masters in Engineering to earn a middle class wage, people married younger and the divorce rate was lower.

Most people should marry in their 30’s

to 18 and 19 year olds.

AKA, the “Trophy Wife”

I have a couple of friends who married at age 19. It was back in the day when the girl got in trouble and, well, they had to get married. Their son was born a few months later. They had a daughter a few years afterward.

Any-hoo, they recently celebrated their 46th anniversary and are still going strong.

“The girl got in trouble.”

I hate this construct. Girls don’t get into trouble by themselves.

As for marriage, I suspect the decline is because men and women are more self-aware and are therefore getting more picky. Over the past 60 years, there has been an explosion in ideas and thought, and people find their interests and sort of narrow themselves to where their personalities aren’t as malleable as before. In 1960 you probably married BF #3 or so after a relatively short courtship and you could meld to each other. In 2010, you go on 5 dates and decide he’s not the One.

Oh, and women being able to support themselves — have a career that pays enough to have their own housing and car — also had a hand in narrowing our personalities.

“Oh, and women being able to support themselves “

Lots of pre-70s era marriages were driven by a young woman’s desire to get out from under the parental thumb.

Speaking as someone with some knowledge of the subject, those “insane” public employee contracts do not feature high cash wages, particularly starting wages.

They feature rich, and retroactively enriched pensions.

Unfortunately, the public services public employees are willing to provide are in exchange for their much resented low cash pay. The pensions don’t count. And they can’t afford the taxes either.

But in New York pension income is exempt from state and local income taxes.

Stop confusing us with those pesky facts. Every public union employee in the northeast US has a $200,000 annual pension.

True, but in many households one of the spouses typically earns much less than the other, in some cases its $0, which explains why HH incomes are not even close to twice individual incomes..

“I also remember that tech workers were definitely considered part of it. I’m not sure about that…me and my coworkers don’t fit into either of those groups.”

I’ve worked in a number of companies devoted to product design… While many of the designers were genuinely creative, a lot of the IT guys were better problem solvers, which to me is a more valuable form of creativity.

A lot of the “designers” were wannabe cool kids who never had a truly original thought in their lives - they were stylists at best.

Think Pink…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcCN6XA61Es

I also remember that tech workers were definitely considered part of it

Now that we don’t make the big bucks anymore we are one again nerds.

Schools are the key.

Indeed … a lot of those hipsters are Lucky Duckies. Kinda hard to buy a house on a barista’s salary.

I have to agree with that, drumminj. But that kind of house IS the suburbs… at least some older suburbs. The new attached product suburbs with HOA… not so much. A co-workder went on a business trip for a week and came back to find a notice pinned on his door: “failed to mow lawn.”

But that kind of house IS the suburbs… at least some older suburbs.

YMMV, but in flyover country that kind of house is definitely the suburbs (friendly neighbors not guaranteed).

She is credited with co-inventing frequency hopping, used in wireless communications to this day, GPS technologies among them.

Cleavon Little as Sheriff Bart
Gene Wilder as Jim, aka “The Waco Kid”
Harvey Korman as Hedley Lamarr
Madeline Kahn as Lili von Shtupp, the “Teutonic Titwillow”
Slim Pickens as Taggart

There’s the confusion. From Blazing Saddles.

I heard it years ago — wait for it — ON NPR!

—————————————-

U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Status of Forces Agreement, 2008
The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: “Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq”) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

“Funny, that’s what I heard Rush Limbaugh say yesterday.”

Once discussion of conservative talking points starts up, the virtual room quickly devolves into an echo chamber.

A chamber full of angry, angry echos.

stay there 100 years if necessary

Silly boy,

“Xe” Inc. + puppet $tring$ * Mc$ame = recipe for Cheney’s teeth whitener.

Obama is a war monger because he’s thinks it’s a WAR. You know, an actual war that you win and FINISH and come home. Like every other war.

The GOP idea of war is a “time of war” which they use to trample on civil rights and slowly milk the taxpayer to enrich they defense contractors. And they do this for decades. It’s not far off from extend and pretend.

Like every other war BEFORE KOREA.

The one exception was Desert Storm.

“That’s not a bush, that’s a $hrub!” Molly Ivins (wink)

You’re right

America’s Legacy.
Worth four minutes of your time on this sad and sobering day.

http://tinyurl.com/orhwg

So very, very wrong.

Obama staffed his economic team with the same banksters that staffed the Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush administrations. With the same group think.

Ditto the “National Security” apparatus.

Both groups don’t want to admit their policies are failures; their excuse is that their policies were “watered down” and want to double-down to prove they aren’t.

The Congressional hearings just before the Iraq invasion were illuminating…….the Army estimated it would need 500,000 to 1 million soldiers to get rid of Saddam and MAINTAIN SECURITY afterwards. Rumsfield and the neo-cons didn’t like that answer. So they $hit canned the “pessimists” and replaced them with guys who were “yes-men”.

Now, we have history to show us who was closer to the truth.

Bushco and the neocons made the decision to nation-build in Afghanistan. Now, they want to bitch at Obama for doing the exact same thing that McCain would have done, if he were elected. Including “The Surge II”

Bushco and the neocons made the decision to nation-build in Afghanistan.

Are you suggesting Congress didn’t give them the thumbs-up, or continually vote to fund the operation?

Obama appointed Gen Shinseki to head the VA.

BA DUMP BA!

“I don’t see how the red tag should affect the sale.”

If we were looking at houses to buy or rent in a neighbrhood and saw that kind of indication of partying, we would turn straight around. That sad, if a neighbor wants to have a loud party on a Friday night until 1 AM, just let us know and it’s not a problem.