December 21, 2011

Bits Bucket for December 21, 2011

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




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318 Comments »

Comment by sfrenter
2011-12-21 00:34:18

Yowza, first to post.

Hey, anyone else in an area where the bubble has not popped? WTF?

Still sitting and waiting here in San Francisco.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 00:40:05

“…has not popped?”

Really?

San Francisco Bay Area Home Prices Fall as Distressed-Property Sales Gain
By Nadja Brandt - Dec 14, 2011 10:09 AM PT

San Francisco Bay Area home prices fell 4.3 percent last month from a year earlier as distressed properties made up a greater share of sales, DataQuick said.

The median paid in the nine-county region declined to $363,500 from $380,000 in November 2010, the San Diego-based research firm said today. Prices rose 3.9 percent from October.

A slow-growing economy and limited loan availability hampered home sales in the Bay Area last month, according to DataQuick President John Walsh.

“Interest rates may be at record lows, but the types of mortgages that are available have been drastically reduced and qualifying is a true grind,” Walsh said in a statement. “Many potential buyers and sellers appear to be in a frame of mind that says, ‘When in doubt, don’t.’”

A total of 6,317 houses and condominiums sold in the Bay Area last month, down 2 percent from October and up 3.4 percent from November 2010. Homes that sold for $500,000 or more accounted for 31 percent of deals, little changed from October and down from 37 percent a year earlier, DataQuick said. Sales of foreclosed homes and other distressed properties, which typically are discounted, made up almost 48 percent of transactions, up from 45 percent in October and 47 percent in November 2010.

Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 05:55:12

Big whoop.

I suspect that the 4.3% decrease is simply the dregs falling into even lower dregs.* Also, a few high-end foreclosures which fall 20% from $3.2 million to $2.7 million could really skew that average.

As for plain ol’ middle class decent quality housing that a family can move into without spending $30K, forget about it. Wishing prices are holding steady at 2004 prices, at least in DC. Wishing price is based more on what the previous owner paid than what the house is actually worth. Short sales are clearly bail-out-the-bank prices, and not connected to reality. If anything, those prices are going UP, because darnit you should be grateful that it’s not a dreg.

———
*It’s like a 1-12 football team losing three more games to be 1-15. Yes, their win % went down, but at that point it doesn’t matter.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-12-21 06:38:25

oxide
Your short sale comment holds true in So Ca too. And you’re spot on regarding the $30K minimum to bring an overpriced home up to a decent level to enjoy. That’s the insanity around here, the 203K’s aren’t debt to sun baked brains, so the realturds and banks get their way.

A regular sale priced $40K below ss comps in the area came up yesterday. The home’s positioning on the lot was the deal breaker for us (sm back yard/huge front yd). Otherwise, it was nice to see, Bought 14 yrs ago.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 10:18:29

“(sm back yard/huge front yd)”

Awaiting-

Over the years with different comments you’ve made, your search sounds so like what we’re looking for. Sometimes the parallels gets a little scary. Were we separated at birth?

:)

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 07:14:06

iIt appears that the bubble remain resilient in areas that stil have strong job markets.

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Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 07:19:34

How does that explain the $250K+ asking prices for 3BR/1BA sh*tshacks in metro Denver with 8% unemployment and $48K median incomes?

 
Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 08:17:41

As long as there are only a few people who can afford those prices, then ALL prices will stick there until they run out people. Then they lower prices, and another layer of people buy. Sticky on the way down.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 08:51:47

I’ve seen some major softening in Metro Denver. My in-laws sold their townhouse in Broomfield when they moved into an assisted living facility. At the peak their townhouse was appraised in low 300’s. They sold it about 2-3 years ago for about 240K. I wouldn’t be surprised if it would fetch even less today.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-12-21 09:02:12

Average/median asking prices and selling prices can differ significantly. What are properties actually selling for in your area of interest? Here’s a tool to help find out.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/recently_sold/

The map is interactive. Scroll to center your area and then zoom in. When the zoom covers a sufficiently small area, the sales for the last 12 months are shown on the map. Click on a sale to get more info. In my old Sarasota ‘hood the actual sales prices were a good 30% lower than current asking prices shown on realtor.com.

Based on what I know about our ‘hood, foreclosure sales are included. At least here.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 09:33:42

Shockingly, CO’s non-current loan rates are among the best in the country (meaning much less distress in CO than in other states). As such, low rates and energy jobs are helping stabilize the market there.

CO non-current loan rate is 6.7% vs FL’s 23%, and CA’s 10.5%.

The best rates in the country (where they are begging for workers and houses) in North/South Dakota are 4.3% and 5.2%, respectively.

Less distress=more price stability.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:01:56

Shockingly, CO’s non-current loan rates are among the best in the country

The locals understand the boom and bust nature of Colorado’s economy and are probably a bit more fiscally conservative than folks in other states because of that.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:05:59

Also, prices didin’t get quite as bubbly here in the 2000’s. I’d say they rose more in the 90’s, after a prolonged oil bust that KO’s the state for years and edpressed home prices throught the state.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:33:27

Yeah, I don’t give the locals credit for any wisdom. I think that after they boomed in the late 90s the stage wasn’t set to really take full advantage in the early 2000s. Kind of a refractory period issue, perhaps :-). As I’ve said before, though, I think the boom in the rest of the country and the easy financing at a national level helped keep things from actually crashing during that time, though.

As a result, while I think CO still has bubble issues, it’s not in the same league as a lot of other places.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:14:36

As a result, while I think CO still has bubble issues, it’s not in the same league as a lot of other places.

What I saw locally was a lot of lucky ducky types who bought 150K houses. No a lot of high end cnstruction in Loveland during the bubble years, but a lot of 150-200K houses.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:16:23

Whatever. 4.3% on a $1,000,000 SF waterfront home is $43,000 — perhaps not much money in your view, but almost up to the current median household income for America overall ($48,000 or so).

The SF bubble may not have popped, but it certainly is leaking air!

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Comment by The_Overdog
2011-12-21 09:28:19

And i would bet such a drop would put a sizable percentage of buyers underwater.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 10:28:54

That only matters if you’re looking at $100,000,000 homes. Otherwise it’s like looking at the weather in Florida to decide what to wear today in Syracuse. You’d think the different price niches would act in unison. But what I am witnessing is that the price stickiness is more extreme in the center where there is the most overlap in interest than at either end. (shacks, Mansions)

I could have my pick of 30 homes which all appear to be quite lovely if I was shopping in that bracket. In my bracket I’m not interested in a one. I realize $1mil in your market is closer to the type of home you’d consider than in mine where the $1mil home is downright palatial. But I still think in general supply/demand balance occurs across niches rather than at a constant across an entire town’s inventory.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 09:51:20

In my neighborhood in the Bay Area, values fell about 20-25% from the peak.

However, due to LinkedIn IPO, Zynga IPO, the rumored Facebook IPO in 2012, the reset strike prices for Google employee’s options in 2009 (putting a lot more employees in the money), I’m not sure we’re going to get much more, especially given the lack of supply (either new development, or distress).

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Comment by rms
2011-12-21 07:31:12

“…limited loan availability hampered home sales…”

No mention of the ability of borrowers to repay abnormally high principal loan balances with incomes that flattened a decade ago.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 10:12:57

I’m w/oxide on this. I see McMansion prices falling here which has finally moved our median YOY price change below the positive. But what good does that do us? There is no way we want a 4000 sq footer to heat and care for no matter how cheap. A lot of what was built here in the last decade were houses of this description.

My niche has had some downward motion. I’d say at this point some of the sellers who slapped a price on a property regardless of condition or weaker location are starting to see that’s not going to fly anymore. But people still buy way above what the neighborhood will support after their myriad fixes/updates are complete. So as far as I’m concerned us middle class ~3x income buyers are still SOL in the current market in the land of $10k or higher annual taxes.

I’m sticking to my ongoing theory about the Syracuse area. It’s gonna take another wave of job losses to shake the risktakers/flippers that I see everywhere. Either that or I’m gonna have to go out and get a full time job so we can compete w/people that in all likelihood are already 2 income households.

 
Comment by sfrenter
2011-12-21 10:34:17

The “Bay Area” and “San Francisco” are very different. The Bay Area includes places like Vallejo and Oakland. SF is a city unto itself.

Sure, I could buy a place in Vallejo for 200K, but I’d be living in the ghetto and an hour away from my work in the city.

Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 11:06:33

Growing up in the area, I totally get the distinctions:

North Bay/Marin: expensive
SF: expensive
Peninsula/Silicon Valley: expensive
East Bay: Don’t care, don’t want to live there

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Comment by MrBubble
2011-12-21 16:23:26

“but I’d be living in the ghetto and an hour away from my work in the city.”

But that hour is by boat! I used to live in Napa and bike down to Vallejo (the last half of the ride is terrible), and the ferry folks were much nicer than the folks on the other side, where we moved later. People on the Larkspur (Marin) ferry had “their” seats and would certainly jockey to get them. Weirdos. The Sausalito ferry folk were so much more mellow.

I actually miss my commute: bike in the AM, boat in the PM.

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Comment by WT Economist
2011-12-21 07:17:55

NYC. According to the city’s appraisal, which is automatically generated by computer based on comparable sales, my house is worth more now than at the height of the bubble, fully recovering the fall off.

Some of that is a relative change. The NY metro area as a whole is much lower, and the suburbs have come less attractive relative to the city. But still, who can pay those prices? Is my neighborhood going Wall Street?

 
Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 07:31:25

—-Hey, anyone else in an area where the bubble has not popped? WTF?—–

I suppose we can nitpick the formalism of “popped” but here in sunny Manhattan, apartments which ran $200k in 1997 still hover at $700k, generally $1000 per sq-ft. Renting remains cheaper than buying. Prices remain disconnected from income. Stlil seems pretty bubbly.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-12-21 08:36:23

evil:

Across the river in queens 2 family are still over $500k 600k no way rents can cover that, so I see a few basements still being converted into that illegal 3rd apartment and then its still not a great positive cash flow unless these people put down a lot of $$$…..

 
 
Comment by Cactus
2011-12-21 09:42:40

Prices poped here in Ventura Co. CA from super High to just High and have been holding steady at High around 450K for a normal house around 1600~2000 square feet.

What happens if CA can’t raise taxes and the state makes more cuts is anybody’s guess. They want a .5 cent sales tax increase and higher income taxes on 250K.

With homes starting at 400K and going well above 1 million I guess alot of people make over 250K around here?

Comment by sfrenter
2011-12-21 10:37:15

“Super ridiculously high” to just “very high” is a good description of places like SF and NYC. (I’ve lived in SF for the past 20 years, originally from Manhattan).

Yes, I understand that some places will always be more expensive than others, but prices here are nowhere near where they were pre-bubble.

10% decline is not a popping bubble.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:45:38

10% decline is not a popping bubble.

Same with Boulder. 600k decline down to 550k is progress, but it’s not a pop.

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Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 10:56:55

Where does all that frickin’ money come from? The median incomes are not that much higher up there than down in dirty Denver.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 11:03:45

I don’t know. I have friends who make enough money to legitimately afford it, but I can’t believe there are that many of them. One of them even understood my point that they had been ripped off…that for what they spent they should have gotten WAY more house for 600k than the generic old middle class house that they got. But they were competing with speculators with zero down loans that will default if anything does wrong, so that’s all they could afford. We laugh when they come visit me at the trailer park…neither of us knows who will be right in the long run, but we’ve both placed our bets.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 11:47:21

CA has prop 13. People who bought years ago have no financial pressure pushing them out (and they can sell and move their equity elsewhere).

All say this again: It is a mistake to compare median incomes in an area to median home price.

The median wage earner is not buying the median home.

If you have a 60% ownership rate, then the median home price is matched up with the 70% (1-50%*60%) percentile earner.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 13:46:18

We laugh when they come visit me at the trailer park

Good for you Carl! :-)

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 14:40:56

Where does all that frickin’ money come from? The median incomes are not that much higher up there than down in dirty Denver.

I think there isn’t a lot of turnover in Boulder. Someone makes a bundle in an IPO with stock options and buys a places there and never moves. The place is a magnet, don’t ask me why. It must the plentiful, exotic eateries I guess. Plus the greenbelt really does limit the supply of land, Boulder has nowhere to grow, unlike say Ft. Collins, the other “chic” college town in the state (Greeley is not chic).

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 14:59:34

The food is pretty good. The food in Boulder is to Wyoming where I grew up as they say the Bay Area is to Boulder.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 11:06:37

10% decline is not a popping bubble.

With the prices we pay here for housing, a 10% decline wouldn’t even begin to cover what I’ve paid in rent waiting for the “pop”.. Ha ha.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 13:03:58

“Still sitting and waiting here in San Francisco.”

Still sitting and waiting here in Seattle too.

Sure, people point to the ~30% decline and say that the bubble “popped”. But when things tripled during the boom, going back down to only a doubling still does not seem like nearly enough to me.

Comment by Kmfdm rules
2011-12-21 14:19:45

Down here in Pierce County (south Tacoma, Puyallup, etc.) we are seeing close to 50% reductions from the 2007 peak - prices are approaching late 1990’s levels.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 16:29:46

That’s way better progress, kmfdm.

Well, we always said that booms were like a bullseye, starting in the center and radiating outwards; and that busts start out around the border and work their way back in.

I guess I just need to find another 5yrs worth of patience. :-)

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2011-12-21 20:20:13

Missing is the all the land. There is no small acreage for sale at those reduced prices. Who is hoarding it?

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Comment by sfrenter
2011-12-21 17:54:43

I’m not grey-haired yet, but will be by the time I buy a house. I’m sick of renting.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2011-12-21 20:21:53

Gone will be 10-15 years of homeownership for the many people who didn’t want to saddle themselves with outrageous debt.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 00:43:20

FT dot com
December 20, 2011 6:59 pm
Eurozone crisis hits US mortgage securities
By Henny Sender in Hong Kong and Dan McCrum in New York

Asset sales by banks under pressure in Europe have hit prices for securitised mortgages in the US, indicating that the effects of the eurozone crisis are widening.

Rather than selling distressed assets in their home markets, there are increasing signs that European banks are selling assets outside the region, hitting prices for asset-backed paper.

“The commercial mortgage-backed securities market is down anywhere from 10 per cent to 50 per cent since April,” says Marc Rosenthal, who manages a portfolio of such securities for MatlinPatterson, a New York private equity group. “Yet the fundamental credit performance hasn’t changed.”

The ABX, an index of prices for securities backed by 2006 vintage subprime mortgages, has fallen 29 per cent since the start of the year, to trade at levels not seen since late 2009.

So while many analysts and traders say the bottom is near for commercial and residential mortgage-backed securities, investors remain cautious due to expectations for future sales.

European banks alone hold about $100bn in US mortgage-backed securities that are not backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, according to data from Deutsche Bank.

Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 10:04:53

The job of the Fed is never done! Time to buy some more low grade debt and pay way, way more than it’s worth.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 00:49:04

Got burst Brussels brown sprouts?

FT dot com
December 19, 2011 5:04 pm
Crisis shows signs of bursting Brussels bubble
By Joshua Chaffin and Alex Barker in Brussels
Euro coins and bills manufacturing

When dozens of civil servants last week braved the drizzle outside the European Commission headquarters in Brussels to protest against looming staff cuts, it marked a rare sighting of austerity, now extensive in the likes of Athens and Dublin, at the very centre of the European Union.

Yet the angry scene outside the building, known as the Berlaymont, only hinted at the growing disillusion and anxiety within its walls, where staffers have struggled for nearly two years with a crisis that José Manuel Barroso, the Commission president, has deemed the continent’s worst since the second world war.

“People are more gloomy than I’ve ever seen,” one official said.

“The crisis dominates the talk in the corridors, at the watercooler and down on Place Lux,” a colleague agreed, referring to the stretch of bars where staffers unwind.

Inside the building that is arguably the beating heart of the European project, workers are now beginning to entertain once-unthinkable worries about the security of their jobs. Like other anxious Europeans, they are also debating into which mattress they should be stuffing their savings. The Netherlands’ Rabobank – the only triple A-rated bank in the world – appears to be the favourite.

So dire is the situation, one staffer observed, that a co-worker recently cancelled the sale of an apartment because “you want bricks and mortar right now – you do not want to end up with 400,000 in euros”.

The Berlaymont has seen dark times before – most notably when the entire college of commissioners was forced to resign in disgrace in 1999 amid allegations of rampant corruption.

But the euro crisis presents a particular variety of misery. From their perch in Brussels, its staffers arguably have the best view into the continent-wide conflagration. Yet they also recognise that the decisive steps needed to halt the crisis must be taken elsewhere.

“They can see this train-wreck happening, but they can’t do anything about it. They’re the Commission, and it’s all in the hands of Merkel and Sarkozy,” said one Brussels lobbyist, who has regular dealings in the Commission.

A European official described the mood as “stunned embarrassment”, adding: “Everyone wants to provide the answer but there isn’t one they can give.”

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-12-21 04:50:53

“So dire is the situation, one staffer observed, that a co-worker recently cancelled the sale of an apartment because “you want bricks and mortar right now – you do not want to end up with 400,000 in euros”.”
Cash is King, oh yeah!
If you have your money in actual bills under the mattress maybe. If it is in a bank I wouldn’t be too sure. If several large banks go bust in short succession the FDIC or their European counterpart will be overwhelmed. One person’s money is another person’s debt. What do you think will happen to a person’s money when the other person (or PIIGS) defaults on their debt? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?
I think you get a bank run, a bank holiday and a currency reform, like in 10 old Euros for 1 new Euro up to a 100K maximum. Maybe not in the US but it sure looks the Euro zone is heading that way.
Remember Lehman? The Euro zone is about 1000 Lehmans all blowing up at the same time along with CDS and various derivatives scattered all over the world banking system.
When people are worried about their cash (bank deposits) holdings they tend to prefer hard assets. Including but not limited to PM. Real estate, dividend stocks and all sorts of collectables will also profit.

Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 06:16:29

“One person’s money is another person’s debt.”

And one person’s debt is another person’s money. If the debt is not paid off then somebody is out some money.

The trick, in the current environment, is to make sure you are not the person that is out the money.

A lot of people who are owed money are not going to get paid; The numbers just do not work out as they should.

But all the numbers are not equal: Some numbers work out better than others. IMO one should avoid the wimpy numbers and go after the strong ones. Right now cash is strong because there is a shortage of the stuff, so right now one should be in cash.

Not saying one should ALWAYS be cash; there will be a time when one should move out of cash and go into something else - something such as stocks - and he should do this when everybody else is selling out. Blood in the streets and all that.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-12-21 07:19:25

“One person’s money is another person’s debt.”

It used to be that “money” in this sense — stocks and bonds — was backed by income producing assets, and proportional to the income produced. No more.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-12-21 07:34:11

Where do you keep that cash? I get to money printing later. Most people do not keep their cash under the matress. They keep it in checking, savings or money market accounts. I do, in my 401K, due to a lack of any viable alternatives. I think that cash might go down with the ship. Bank holidays tend to come unannounced. When the banks open back up your cash has vanished into thin air or has been converted into something that is guaranteed to have less purchasing power than before. Those events happen, and they happen without you or me having any prior knowledge about them.
The other way out for overly indebted governments is money printing. Many people say it doesn’t cause inflation when the central bank buys government debt. I say it does. The private money that would have purchased that government debt at higher interest rates got crowded out by the lower rates the central bank is willing to purchase that debt. Now that private capital has to find a new home outside of government debt. That money will pour into all kinds of assets increasing their price.
Look at the US for example. 40% of government expenditures are borrowed money. 70% of the government budget are off limits for cuts and tax increases are out of the question. It doesn’t take a PhD in math to figure out that sooner or later something has to give. What that “something” is, is debatable. I think they will print up the difference since politically it is the way of least resistence. Austerity doesn’t go over very well. The US has the luxury that we have the world reserve currency, otherwise we would be in the same situation as Euroland is right now. the market of US$ is much larger than Euros. So a can get away with a little money printing. You can piss into the pool and chances are nobody will notice. Do the same in the bath tub and you have a problem.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:46:43

“I do, in my 401K, due to a lack of any viable alternatives. I think that cash might go down with the ship.”

Does your 401K plan allow you to borrow against it? You could always take out a low-income 401K loan and invest the proceeds in bricks and mortar.

 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-12-21 08:26:49

They only allow to take out a relatively small amount as a loan. Up to 10 or 20K or was it percent? Can’t remember. I already though about that one but it wasn’t even worth my time messing with it.
The biggest risk to real eastate in the Miami area right now are not falling prices but desperate taxing authorities. Real estate is impossible to hide from the tax man. Owning a bunch of real easte makes you a big juicy target for the tax man. Same goes for stocks/bonds. PM and collectables are easily sold on the secondary market like coin/memorabelia/antique shows. No tax man involved but you have to know what you’re doing so you don’t buy fake Chinese stuff.

 
Comment by rms
2011-12-21 08:37:49

“What that “something” is, is debatable.”

Those bond holder’s coupons are being paid with freshly printed money. Doubt? I’d ask you to review your energy and grocery bills.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 08:56:08

Bank holidays tend to come unannounced. When the banks open back up your cash has vanished into thin air or has been converted into something that is guaranteed to have less purchasing power than before.

This happened in Mexico. Mexican banks offered USD based accounts. When the poop hit the fan in the 80’s the peso was trading at 150 to a USD. The government ordered the dollar accounts (AKA Mexdolares) converted into pesos at a 50 pesos to a dollar exchange rate (a 66% hair cut).

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:11:10

The biggest risk to real eastate in the Miami area right now are not falling prices but desperate taxing authorities. Real estate is impossible to hide from the tax man. Owning a bunch of real easte makes you a big juicy target for the tax man.

High property taxes seems to be an American experience.

When we lived in Mexico City my parent’s home was worth about 60K USD. IIRC our annual property tax bill was about $100 USD.

 
Comment by rms
2011-12-21 12:40:05

“This happened in Mexico. Mexican banks offered USD based accounts. When the poop hit the fan in the 80’s the peso was trading at 150 to a USD. The government ordered the dollar accounts (AKA Mexdolares) converted into pesos at a 50 pesos to a dollar exchange rate (a 66% hair cut).”

I remember that foreign investors were not pleased when Colosio took a bullet through his head.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:19:08

‘…“you want bricks and mortar right now – you do not want to end up with 400,000 in euros”. Cash is King, oh yeah!’

Bricks and mortar are king right up until the day when you don’t have the cash to pay the mortgage…or is it the day when you no longer are allowed to live rent-free?

Not sure…

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-12-21 07:42:16

Not being able to service your debt gives your counterparty a perfect excuse to strip you of your assets. Just because YOUR money might experiences inflation, currency reform or vanish into thin air means that your debt will experience the same fate. Think about who holds your debt and who makes the laws of the land. J6P is certainly at the shorter end of the stick.
Best policy is not to have any debt, then servicing the debt never becomes much of a problem.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:52:02

“Best policy is not to have any debt, then servicing the debt never becomes much of a problem.”

You must be another of my brothers of other mothers.

 
Comment by rms
2011-12-21 08:43:06

“Best policy is not to have any debt, then servicing the debt never becomes much of a problem.”

A least for your primary residence and basic needs. Otherwise, making use of other people’s money is how the game is played.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 09:17:15

Otherwise, making use of other people’s money is how the game is played.

d’accord

Which is exactly why the Chinese Gov’t is so angry over the Gulf Oil $urcharge they are forced to pay. :-)

 
Comment by Cactus
2011-12-21 09:48:43

Not being able to service your debt gives your counterparty a perfect excuse to strip you of your assets.”

That would apply to governments for sure, higher taxes andd lower services in the future.

 
Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 09:49:27

It continually baffles the mind to hear people talk about the coming hyperinflation and then talk about “cash is king” in the same sentence. It’s like believing in global warming and then stocking up on winter coats.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cereal
2011-12-21 01:00:56

dtto Culver City. OTOH, My across-the-street realtor nabe has made 0 sales since last Feb.

Comment by Awaiting
2011-12-21 06:42:42

cereal
Good to hear. Maybe there is a job opening for them at a Wal-Mart. Actually, someone deserving should get the job.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 07:00:14

“Where Art Thou?,..Oh, my dearest…$100,000 / $250,000 / $400,000 $ingle Tran$action / Depo$it of thy $weet, $weet, $weet, nectar of remembrance?

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 01:10:37

Op-Ed Columnist
Will China Break?
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: December 18, 2011

Consider the following picture: Recent growth has relied on a huge construction boom fueled by surging real estate prices, and exhibiting all the classic signs of a bubble. There was rapid growth in credit — with much of that growth taking place not through traditional banking but rather through unregulated “shadow banking” neither subject to government supervision nor backed by government guarantees. Now the bubble is bursting — and there are real reasons to fear financial and economic crisis.

Am I describing Japan at the end of the 1980s? Or am I describing America in 2007? I could be. But right now I’m talking about China, which is emerging as another danger spot in a world economy that really, really doesn’t need this right now.

I’ve been reluctant to weigh in on the Chinese situation, in part because it’s so hard to know what’s really happening. All economic statistics are best seen as a peculiarly boring form of science fiction, but China’s numbers are more fictional than most. I’d turn to real China experts for guidance, but no two experts seem to be telling the same story.

Still, even the official data are troubling — and recent news is sufficiently dramatic to ring alarm bells.

The most striking thing about the Chinese economy over the past decade was the way household consumption, although rising, lagged behind overall growth. At this point consumer spending is only about 35 percent of G.D.P., about half the level in the United States.

So who’s buying the goods and services China produces? Part of the answer is, well, we are: as the consumer share of the economy declined, China increasingly relied on trade surpluses to keep manufacturing afloat. But the bigger story from China’s point of view is investment spending, which has soared to almost half of G.D.P.

The obvious question is, with consumer demand relatively weak, what motivated all that investment? And the answer, to an important extent, is that it depended on an ever-inflating real estate bubble. Real estate investment has roughly doubled as a share of G.D.P. since 2000, accounting directly for more than half of the overall rise in investment. And surely much of the rest of the increase was from firms expanding to sell to the burgeoning construction industry.

Do we actually know that real estate was a bubble? It exhibited all the signs: not just rising prices, but also the kind of speculative fever all too familiar from our own experiences just a few years back — think coastal Florida.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 09:45:17

I’ve been having a discussion with a friend re: the change of leadership in North Korea. As we all know, the North Koreans have a very good rich uncle friend named China. Without Chinese support, North Korea would have swooned into the arms of South Korea a long time ago.

However, I’m of the mind that the collapse of the Chinese real estate bubble will cause the end of this dependent relationship. Same thing happened between Russia and Cuba after the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia could no longer afford to subsidize Cuba to the tune of $1 million a day.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:11:21

Russia could no longer afford to subsidize Cuba to the tune of $1 million a day.

That’s chump change. I’ll bet the DoD spends more on office supplies. The Ruskies must have really been broke.

 
Comment by Itsabouttime
2011-12-21 21:28:24

Amazing how quickly Cuba swooned into the arms of America right after the Soviets fell in 1991,

 
 
 
Comment by ahansen
2011-12-21 01:12:20

TARP bailout takes on a whole new dimension. Worth a couple of minutes of your time if you’re feeling cranky.

http://tinyurl.com/bsqdba5

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 05:18:49

Kinda gives one pause to consider how many times each day across America some citizen-taxpayer might have cause to file a “worker$ compen$ation” claim.

Tankxs! ;-)

 
Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 06:35:31

OK, now, that’s just too funny right there.

Made my day, hansen. Neutralized my perennial crankiness.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-12-21 07:08:44

LOL

 
Comment by ahansen
2011-12-21 09:40:56

Rag against the machine, palmy. :-)

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:13:53

My guess is those office workers find their cars full of cement one morning.

Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 20:33:12

+1.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the cement guys were to “somehow” get a copy of the video.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 01:12:43

Is China’s bubble bursting?
As bankruptcy-driven disappearances and suicides haunt Wenzhou, we check in with leading China debt expert Victor Shih.
David Case
October 30, 2011 21:49
China real estate bubble debt collapse

A 19-floor commercial building is demolished by controled explosions on November 17, 2004 in Shanghai, China’s financial hub, to make way for new development. (China Photos/Getty Images)

Editor’s note: this article is part of our “Cracks in the Wall” series about the challenges facing China’s economy.

BOSTON — China’s economic miracle is showing signs of faltering. Growth has slowed to 9.1 percent — still a ferocious pace for any normal country, but a relative slump for China. Meanwhile, the government has begun putting the brakes on lending, in an effort to tame inflation and avoid a serious bubble.

But now there’s evidence of real economic pain in China. In cities like Wenzhou, entrepreneurs have found themselves mired in debt — so hopelessly that some have gone into hiding or committed suicide.

To put the matter in perspective, we interviewed Dr. Victor Shih. An expert in Chinese politics and economy, Shih has been following the debt situation closely, and was among the first to warn of potential trouble ahead. An associate professor of political science at Northwestern University, Shih holds a Ph.D. in government from Harvard. (The interview has been condensed and edited by GlobalPost.)

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:00:26

China’s economic miracle is showing signs of faltering.

Ain’t that a surprise!? An economy that is:

Built on cheap labor
Dependent on exports
Has the mother or all real estate bubbles

Is faltering? Say it ain’t so Joe!

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:15:04

but hyperinflation is just around the corner. ???

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:08:46

Zimbabwe’s weak economy didn’t keep hyperinflation away.

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Comment by measton
2011-12-21 20:39:20

Zimbabwe printed money then immediately used it to pay gov workers and buy foreign goods. During this time the rest of the world was doing well thus the total consumption of goods was rising fairly rapidly around the globe. Zimbabwe also had a gov that had demonstrated it would strip assets from the legal owners and hand it to politicians. Thus why would anyone invest or buy bonds from the country. Zimbabwe is always trotted out but the world is in a much much different position.

 
 
 
Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 17:53:10

“Ain’t that a surprise!? An economy that is:
Built on cheap labor
Dependent on exports
Is faltering? Say it ain’t so Joe!I”

I thought an economy based on exports was the way to go. That’s what I continually hear from the protectionists here and elsewhere. America would get back to its greatness if only we started manufacturing and exporting things again. But now China, that relies on exports is also doomed according to the same people. Interesting.

Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 20:44:59

“I thought an economy based on exports was the way to go.”

It is, as long as you have customers - with money.

This phenom isn’t limited to countrys; it works for states, countys, cities, towns, factories.

Make something that you can sell at a profit and you will prosper. When you can no longer sell what you make at a profit then your prosperity comes to a halt.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 01:14:29

China Business
Nov 23, 2011
China bubble a global concern
By James Nolt

China’s economy has been growing at a phenomenal pace in recent decades, averaging around 10% a year. Few people seemed to worry, therefore, when the Chinese government announced recently that gross domestic product (GDP) growth in the third quarter of 2011 slowed to “only” 9.1% . Almost any country would envy such growth. Yet beneath the continued robust appearances, there are signs that China is heading toward a crash reminiscent of the one that brought down the United States economy during 2007-2008.

China too is facing a real estate bubble financed by an unregulated shadow banking system that is just lately starting to get squeezed between tightening government regulation of credit and sharply falling export sales. If real estate prices finally start to tumble, the shock to bullish Chinese investors could collapse the shadow banking system, drive many smaller businesses under, and create severe unemployment problems.

Although the US Congress is still fixated on the supposed problem of an undervalued currency, a serious slowdown of the Chinese economy could have worse implications for the world economy than the much touted exchange rate issue.

Americans must start to think more broadly about the role of the Chinese economy in an increasingly troubled world economy and not consider only the bilateral US-China economic relationship in isolation from the rest of the world. Since 2007 the world economy has been rattled by a series of structural failures worse than any since the 1930s. This is a dangerous time.

The Great Depression was not a single crisis but a snowballing series of interlinked crises that each pulled the world deeper into depression. The links among various crises in the world today are even tighter than then because of the much greater integration and interdependence of the global financial system and its greater role in real economies everywhere.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 01:18:14

There is no shortage of journalists trembling in fear over the prospect of a China bubble collapse without any real evidence it will even occur.

What If the China Bubble Bursts?
By Ken Miller Monday, Oct. 17, 2011
Ghost town Empty streets in Kangbashi, Inner Mongolia
Michael Christopher Brown / Corbis

What’s the most important economic question in the world today? One contender would certainly be whether the euro will collapse. Another might be whether the U.S. will plunge into a double-dip recession. But a third, and possibly the most important over the long term, is whether China can find its way out of the biggest housing bubble ever created.

It may seem strange to Westerners, who hear so much about the rise of Asia and growing Chinese competitiveness. But like U.S. Republicans who try to “starve the beast” by cutting government spending, the Chinese Communist Party has been attempting to put a damper on the debt-fueled real estate boom that is at the heart of the nation’s economic miracle. This is part of a deliberate attempt that is meant to rejigger the Chinese economy into one that relies more on a domestic service sector and less on manufacturing and exports. If, however, the party’s efforts result in a precipitous drop in real estate values, multinational corporations whose revenue and earnings growth are tied to China could be hard hit. And the U.S. could be thrown back into recession. (See pictures of China’s 90 years of communism.)

The world has to care about Chinese growth, since it is an important driver of the global economy. China contributed 19% of the world’s economic growth in 2010, and that’s expected to increase to 24% this year. China’s growing strength is essential to both the U.S. and European recoveries.

While Washington has sweated through its partisan debates on budget balancing and economists have bickered over solutions to our low-growth and high-unemployment problems, the Chinese boom of the past several decades has blasted ahead without a glitch. Much of that boom is wrapped up in real estate. In the first six months of this year, Chinese investment in real estate was up 32.9% compared with the same period in 2010, and China’s economy is expected to grow more than 9% this year, about equal to its average during the post — Deng Xiaoping era of “communism with Chinese characteristics.”

The popular narrative is that China’s rise from nowhere in 1978 to its position today as the world’s second largest economy has been fueled by cheap labor. While this is one factor, cheap capital and land have been as important. Most Chinese, who are huge savers, have little choice but to put their money in bank accounts that pay interest lower than the rate of inflation; these funds are then channeled into state-owned enterprises whose capital expenditures create the factories and buildings on which the Chinese miracle has been built.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:02:16

The popular narrative is that China’s rise from nowhere in 1978 to its position today as the world’s second largest economy has been fueled by cheap labor. While this is one factor, cheap capital and land have been as important

And don’t forget the Carte Blanche to destroy the domestic environment in the process.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:19:07

Yep this is the race to the bottom
The one who get’s to slave labor wages first wins. The one who steals any accumulate wealth from the lower classes wins. The environment is just another socialized loss pushed onto the citizens.

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 10:37:51

Pollution is just an economic externality. And besides, environmentalism is for Sissies…

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Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:07:31

Until you inhale, eat and drink it. I suppose the rich in China drink purified bottled water and eat imported food.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 13:41:38

I suppose the rich in China drink purified bottled water and eat imported food.

fixed it.

 
 
 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2011-12-21 13:21:47

Apparently they celebrate the founding of the Communist Party of China on July 1, 1921. Mao Zedong first came to prominence in leading the Long March of 1934.

“90 years of Communism” sounds like a stretch.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-12-21 03:04:20

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/houseprices/8968616/Americans-ditch-home-ownership.html

The development of multi-family units - a category made up of flats and townhouses - jumped 25.3pc last month to an annual rate of 238,000, the Commerce Department said on Tuesday. That helped drive overall construction on new homes up 9.3pc to an annual pace of 685,000, the strongest since the spring of 2010.

The better-than-expected figures were enough to cheer investors who have become accustomed to a flow of depressing news from the housing market since the bubble first burst in 2006. They also showed the degree to which the downturn is unwinding American homeownership, an objective of successive US governments since World War Two.

Ownership dropped to 66.9pc last year from a high of 70pc in 2005, and some are forecasting it will drop as low as 62pc as the hurdles to owning a home increase.

“We expect the shift from owning to renting to persist for the next few years,” said Michelle Meyer, an economist at Bank of America. She points to the prospect of further repossessions next year and the tougher criteria banks are now imposing on potential borrowers.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 05:46:20

Ownership dropped to 66.9pc last year from a high of 70pc in 2005, and some are forecasting it will drop as low as 62pc as the hurdles to owning a home increase.

“We expect the shift from owning to renting to persist for the next few years,”

Must not be joyful, pulling a Radio Flyer wagon through the beach sand when it only has x1 wheel.

“$uzanne Honey, really, we’re close enough to the water$ edge, let’s just stop right here, whata ya say?”

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 10:42:48

As long as the construction workers that are getting the jobs to build the apartments can afford the rent in the area on their construction wages, this is positive.

I suspect however that the apartments being built are going to be asking high rents…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 10:52:06

I suspect however that the apartments being built are going to be asking high rents…

That’s precisely what’s happening near the University of Arizona. There’s construction underway on a complex that’s supposed to house 700 students.

It’s on 6th Street near the hoppin’ nightclub district on 4th Avenue. I guess that means the kids will be within easy barfing distance of their cribs. I’ll bet that’s worth a pretty penny in rent.

And, if that’s not enough, ground is about to be broken on a 14-story complex just two blocks west of campus. Methinks that’ll be the reason to ask high rent too.

I don’t know how many rich kids go to the UA — we do get quite a few from CA — but a lot of the students are just keeping their heads above water. And they have mondo student loans.

So, I wonder how many people will really flock to these new places.

Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 11:02:08

Parents are suckers for shiny and new.

I wish there were some articles written about the subsidies that the apartment market gets from the US via cheap debt provided by Fannie/Freddie/HUD. Often overlooked, this is the reason that cap rates for apartments are so low…also overlooked is how high rents would need to be to justify new construction if this cheap debt wasn’t available…

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 11:35:35

Parents are suckers for shiny and new.

If there’s a bit of good news in all of this, it’s that parents don’t seem to be as interested in buying an investment house for Johnny and Ashley the way they were back in 2003-05. These days, the goal seems to get the kiddies into a nice apartment or dorm room for the duration of their college careers.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 04:40:32

Colleges pay presidents millions while raising tuition

CNNMoney
5:59 a.m. CST, December 20, 2011

Vanderbilt University paid its chancellor, Nicholas Zeppos, $1.9 million in 2009, according to the school’s most recent tax filings — enough for up to 43 students to attend Vanderbilt at current prices. His total pay includes a base salary of $673,002, as well as bonus and other compensation.

That same year, Vanderbilt’s tuition jumped 4.3 percent. Since then, the college has hiked tuition more than 3 percent annually, and now totals $41,332, according to the university.

As student loan debt continues to grow and students storm campuses across the country to protest the surging cost of tuition, college presidents’ big paychecks are adding fuel to the fire, said Sara Hebel, a senior editor at the Chronicle of Higher Education, which recently published its annual survey of CEO compensation among private colleges.

“At a time when the national conversation is focused on widening income gaps between the wealthiest individuals and everyone else, it is not a surprise that college presidents who earn some of the highest salaries have been targeted by students who face rising tuition,” said Hebel.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-colleges-pay-presidents-millions-while-raising-tuition-20111220,0,3120591.story -

Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 06:19:46

Rah-Rah, Sis-Boom-Bah, peducation, gotta love it.

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 06:56:01

“As student loan debt continues to grow and students storm campuses across the country to protest the surging cost of tuition, college presidents big paychecks are adding fuel to the fire …”

Take a look at this statement and see if you can see the logic here:

College tuition rises so protesters storm the campuses.

Note: They do not storm the college president’s home, they storm the campuses. The college president is one of those high-paid guys who make the tuition decisions hence HE is the guy that should be targeted. Storming the campus just screws your fellow student - and yourself - and ends up pitting yourself against the police.

You get arrested and go to jail, the college president gets to play golf. Lol.

Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 07:01:01

One pays big money to go to college then he decides to storm the campus instead of going to class.

Pure genius.

Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 07:06:35

Sorta like when they have riots in the ‘hood. Or those riots on the streets of London.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:22:54

“…riots in the ‘hood.’”

You mean the kind where they break down the door of the local grocery store and clean out the contents?

Next thing you know, community leaders are complaining about how no grocery store chains have any local outlets…

 
Comment by goon squad
 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2011-12-21 07:21:55

Of course in the state schools university presidents earn nothing like those huge salaries.

Among public employees, only football and basketball coaches are paid that much.

Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 07:39:53

Not to mention the perks! All the underage sex they can handle!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Comment by Elanor
2011-12-21 09:02:41

Football coaches are the CEOs of the college sports world. All vastly overpaid.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 07:25:37

When does OWS “occupy” BIG Education…?

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 07:45:36

idk, but seems theys seem to be very “occupied” in 2ndBananas mind currently. ;-)

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 08:23:50

Insert Heritage-Foundation-intern-penned-troll-blog-post that “at least the Tea Party cleaned up their garbage and didn’t rape anybody like those hippie commies did” HERE

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 08:48:52

From, “In the Loop”:

“Still hangin’ Chad…”

 
 
 
 
Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:02:04

Got to keep the “talent” ya know?

Seriously, the university’s president’s only job these days is to be THE fundraiser.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 09:54:07

Very true.

Back when I worked for the fund-raising arm of the University of Arizona, the UA president was judged on his ability to bring in major gifts. In the UA scheme of things, a major gift was at least $100k.

 
 
 
Comment by Hard Rain
2011-12-21 04:58:57

The producers:

Weak regulation, poor oversight led to Morgan Keegan investors’ heavy losses

Jim Kelsoe had a pet name around Morgan Keegan’s skyscraper in Memphis.They called him “the genius.”

Kelsoe pulled down buy-the-whole-vineyard pay — $10 million, even $20 million in good years, according to estimates by finance experts.

He was the genius.

Then an estimated $1 billion put in his grasp by Memphis families and businesses drained away and simply vanished in America’s 2007 meltdown.

Tangled roots

■ Banks — In New York, Sandy Weill invited John Reed to the Park Hyatt. They talked merger. In 1998, Reed’s Citigroup bank wed Weill’s Traveler’s insurance, owner of big bond trader Salomon Smith Barney.

Weeks after the $70 billion merger, Weill urged repeal of Glass-Steagall, the 1933 federal law barring banks from owning investment firms. (Salomon-Travelers had secured a temporary waiver). Led by Weill, commercial and investment bankers donated more than $150 million to key lawmakers’ election campaigns.

In November 1999, Congress ended the Depression-era law.

Within days, former Goldman Sachs co-chairman Robert Rubin resigned as U.S. Treasury secretary and joined Weill as his right-hand man.

Within two years, Regions bought Morgan Keegan. The big bank would begin steering clients to the Memphis-based investment house

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/dec/18/morgan-keegan-what-went-wrong-genius-at-work/

Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:04:36

Ya don’t say?

 
 
Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 05:00:15

Two stories from Politico:

Poll: No love for the 2012 field

“In a figure that’s dramatically higher than four years ago, almost half of Americans are not satisfied with the field of 2012 White House candidates, saying they don’t think any of the hopefuls would make a good president, a new poll Wednesday shows.

Asked if there is any candidate who they think would make a good president, 46 percent said there wasn’t, while 48 percent said there was, according to a Gallup/USA Today poll.

This year’s level of dissatisfaction is significantly higher than it was in 2008, when just 11 percent signaled they weren’t happy with the choice of presidential candidates, and in 2000, when 16 percent said there was no one in the field that would make a good president.”

And this: Gary Johnson to drop out of GOP primary to run as Libertarian

“Gary Johnson will quit the Republican primaries and seek the Libertarian Party nomination instead, POLITICO has learned.

The former two-term New Mexico governor, whose campaign for the GOP nomination never caught fire, will make the announcement at a press conference in Santa Fe on Dec. 28. Johnson state directors will be informed of his plans on a campaign conference call Tuesday night, a Johnson campaign source told POLITICO.

The move has been expected for weeks — Johnson had run a New Hampshire-centric effort that never got him past a blip in the polls. He appeared at only two nationally televised debates, and only one in which other major candidates took part.

Johnson expressed deep disillusionment with the process as his libertarian message failed to catch fire and he received almost no attention for his bid. He soon began flirting with the Libertarians when it became clear that he was gaining no traction in GOP primaries.”

Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 09:14:26

I guess I’m silly, but why isn’t Ron Paul a formal Libertarian?

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:30:15

I thought he was at one time and then figured out that in our winner take all system you have to be in one of the top two parties or you most likely have no chance.

 
 
 
Comment by Politicians Are Feces®
2011-12-21 05:04:48

Politicians Are Feces®

 
Comment by Congress Are Whores®
2011-12-21 05:22:58

Congress Are Whores®

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 05:52:40

Comment by turkey lurkey
2011-12-15 07:57:29

Liars and veggies and whores! Oh my!

(still smiling)

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 06:57:20

Prostitute$

Steinbeck expresses a certain respect for prostitution for its honesty of motives, while reserving moral judgment for the reader. In Of Mice and Men, George has a small monologue in which he states that a man can go into a whorehouse and get a beer and sex for a price agreed upon up front - unlike less professional relationships, you know what you’re going to get and what you will have to pay for it. The same theme of respect is expressed in Cannery Row in Steinbeck’s descriptions of the Bear Flag: it is a business that provides a service in demand, it is run cleanly and honestly, and it benefits the community.

:-)

 
 
Comment by Hard Rain
2011-12-21 05:36:44

Retired police and firefighters from Central Falls, R.I., have agreed to sharp pension cuts, a step thought to be unprecedented in municipal bankruptcy and one that could prompt similar attempts by other distressed governments.

“This is the first time there’s been an agreement of the police and firefighters of any city or town to take the cut,” he said, referring to those already retired, who are typically spared when union contracts change. “I’ve told these guys they’re like the canary in the coal mine. I know that there are other places watching this.”

Nice to see the fraudsters get their due. Now move up the food chain….

The police and firefighters have known for months that drastic cuts were looming. Last month, the unions representing active workers negotiated new contracts, which called for workers to complete at least 25 years to receive pensions, instead of 20. Workers will also have to meet much more rigorous standards to qualify for disability pensions.

Until now, 60 percent of Central Falls police officers and firefighters have retired on full disability pensions, drawing the inflation-protected and tax-free payments even when they embarked on new careers. One of them, at 43, has become a prominent personal-injury lawyer and can be seen in television ads shooting baskets and pretending to fall down a manhole. That retiree, Robert Levine, a former police officer, said his disability was the result of an on-duty car crash where he was not at fault, and that his pension had been granted lawfully after his condition was certified by three different doctors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/business/pension-deal-in-rhode-island-could-set-a-trend.html?src=mv&ref=business

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 05:59:25

and that his pension had been granted lawfully after his condition was certified by three different doctors.

Oh, a wi$e guy eh!

http://tinyurl.com/5rwwo6w

 
Comment by combotechie
2011-12-21 06:28:27

“sharp pension cuts” = somebody gets to do without.

“could prompt similar attempts by other distressed governments” = somebody else will also get to do without.

Promises, promises. Poof go the promises.

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 08:47:05

“Promises, promises. Poof go the promises.”

Kinda like I promise to pay back this home loan over the next 30 years went poof 10 or 20 million times. Poof go the promises, I think ther`s a song there. I`m thinking Dragon. Poof the magic dragon!

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 06:55:02

“Workers will also have to meet much more rigorous standards to qualify for disability pensions.”

More rigorous than this?

11 Charged in L.I.R.R. Disability Fraud Plot

By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and MOSI SECRET
Published: October 27, 2011

Eleven people were charged on Thursday in an enormous fraud scheme in which hundreds of Long Island Rail Road workers falsely claimed to have disabling injuries, with some of them collecting tens of thousands of dollars in annual pensions while spending time playing golf, law enforcement officials said.

The fraudulent payouts in the scheme, officials estimate, could end up costing a federal pension agency more than $1 billion if fully disbursed.

Ten of the defendants were taken into custody early Thursday at their homes by agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and state investigators, officials said. They included seven former railroad workers, including a former union president; a former federal railroad pension agency employee who helped the workers file claims; a doctor; and a doctor’s office manager. A second doctor is expected to surrender on Friday.

A sampling of hundreds of cases approved by two doctors showed that $121 million had been paid to workers whose disabilities were either fabricated or exaggerated, according to court papers, though the total was quite likely more. It was unclear if officials would try to stop the payouts, or could even legally do so, before the disbursements hit $1 billion.

The claims of disability made by the seven people charged with obtaining their pensions fraudulently contrasted sharply with their lifestyles, according to court papers. One of the defendants, Gregory Noone, 62, of East Islip, N.Y., who receives $105,000 in pension and disability payments each year, plays tennis several times a week and played golf 140 days over the course of one nine-month period, despite his reports that he had severe pain when gripping objects, bending or crouching, the complaint filed in the case said.

Another defendant, Regina Walsh, 63, a railroad office worker who lives in New Hyde Park, N.Y., collects $108,000 a year in pension and disability payments; she had complained of significant neck, shoulder and hand pain caused by sitting at a desk and using a computer, and leg pain caused by standing for more than five minutes. But surveillance showed her shoveling snow for over an hour and walking with a baby stroller for 40 minutes, the complaint said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/nyregion/charges-in-lirr-disability-scheme.html?pagewanted=all

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 07:03:19

a doctor?

Naw, can’t be, doc’$ are ethical to the bone!

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 07:14:31

“Naw, can’t be, doc’$ are ethical to the bone!”

To the bone?

This is a re-broadcast of a previously aired Deadbeat song.

Bad To The Bone lyrics

The day I bought my house
The neighbors all gathered ’round
And they gazed in wide wonder
At just what they had found
The HOA spoke up
Said “leave this one alone”
They could tell right away
I was a bad one to loan
Bad one to loan
B-B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-B-Bad
Bad one to loan

It`s been twelve-hundred days
Since I have paid you
It’ll be twelve-hundred more, baby
Before I am through
I wanna live free baby
Free right here in my home
I’m here to tell ya honey
I was a bad one to loan
Bad one to loan
B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-Bad
Bad one to loan

SOLO

I make a rich banker laugh
I’ll make a Fed Chairman steal
I’ll make an old saver poor
I make a renter squeal
I`ve lived here for five years
They call me on the phone
But I always tell `em
I was a bad one to loan
B-B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-B-Bad
B-B-B-B-Bad
Bad one to loan

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 07:34:47

Memories of the Wiltern, sweet! Tankxs! ;-)

And I sat there, gettin’ high, stoned
Knocked out, and by the time
I looked on the wall, at the old clock again
And by that time, it was a quarter to two

Last call for alcohol, I said,
Hey mister bartender, what do you want?”

One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer

 
 
 
Comment by Montana
2011-12-21 07:37:00

well at least they try to stay in shape.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 07:29:44

I luv public union goons!

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 07:34:17

Thanks for the love, buddy! A big, wet, slobbering, lispy Barney Frank *kiss* right back atcha :)

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 07:41:53

“Thanks for the love, buddy! A big, wet, slobbering, lispy Barney Frank *kiss* right back atcha”

So much for eating lunch today.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:47:55

Mikey, is that you?

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 08:02:01

Mikey,…MIA… :-/

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 08:03:35

With man-boobs aflowing too? :-)

Thanks for the love, buddy! A big, wet, slobbering, lispy Barney Frank *kiss* right back atcha

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Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:12:44

When is a contract binding?

Only when the peons have to uphold their end.

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 05:38:24

Realtors Are Liars®

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 07:25:29

A bit late today, are we?

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 12:41:48

I’m up to my ass in alligators.

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 05:50:58

Brenda Lee - Rockin’ Around the Christmas Tree Lyrics,

Rockin’ around the Christmas tree
At the Deadbeat party hop,
Everyone heres been livin free,
Since their mortgage payments stopped,
Rockin’ around the Christmas tree,
It`s a Deadbeat kinda thing,
Later we’ll take our house payment,
And we’ll do some more shopping.

You will get a sentimental feeling when you hear,
Voices singing, “Raise your glasses,
Robo signers saved our @sses”,
Rockin’ around the Christmas tree,
Have a happy holiday,
Everyone dancin’ merrily,
Thanks to rent that we don`t pay.

Interlude

You will get a sentimental feeling when you hear,
Voices singing, “Raise your glasses,
Robo signers saved our @sses”,
Rockin’ around the Christmas tree,
Have a happy holiday,
Everyone dancin’ merrily,
In a house where we don`t paaaay.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 06:07:31

And we’ll do some more shopping.

Eons ago, before it took x2 income$ to “own” a home:

http://tinyurl.com/6sknavz

(1930)

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 06:28:03

“Eons ago, before it took x2 income$ to “own” a home:”

As opposed to the last 3 years when it took x0 income$ to “own” a home.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 06:49:40

Funny thing is, those folks in the picture, their house was most likely surrounded by granite. (Can you imagine the remodeling the grand-kids had to do!)

Put that “Equity” to Work fool! ;-)

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:24:37

Jeff — Merry Christmas, and thanks for sharing your lyricist talents with the HBB!

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 06:11:17

to: Rental Watch & 45 North

Tankxs for yer posts & in$ights yesterday re: CRE !

Comment by Rental Watch
2011-12-21 12:16:53

No problem.

What people need to realize is that CRE is VERY diverse (both in product type, state, tenant base, type of lender, situations with lenders, etc.) so each situation is dealt with differently, and it is difficult for lenders to simply have a process by which they deal with every asset on an assembly-line of foreclosure.

As such, it will be a slow grind through the problems, and there will be plenty of opportunity for investors…I’m looking at a new deal just yesterday, where an office building would be acquired from a bank, and the person putting the deal together has a tenant that would sign a lease for 50% of the building before we close. If you lease the rest of the building at those same lease rates, the property has tremendous cash flow (well over a 10% unleveraged yield), and with just the first tenant in the building, it services all expenses (including debt). The price is WAY below replacement cost, so as long as rents are where they are, it is unlikely that there would be a lot of new development…where there is distress, there is opportunity.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 06:25:02

How to Be a Millionaire
Writer: WHITE, MARK ANDREW/FRY, MARTIN (ABC)

I’ve seen the future, I can’t afford it
Tell me the truth sir, someone just bought it
Say mr. whispers! Here come the click of dice
Roulette and blackjacks - gonna build us a paradise
Larger than life and twice as ugly
If we have to live there, you’ll have to drug me

Maybe these luxuries can only compensate
For all the cards you were dealt at the hands of fate
So tell me
Tell me! tell me! How to be a millionaire
Tell me! tell me! How to be a millionaire!

Millionaire! Billionaire! Trillionaire!

Hardly surprising if you might consider
Loyalties go to the highest of bidders
What’s my opinion? I’d give you ten to one
Give me a million, a franchise on fun
But there are millions who often get nowhere
And there’s just one secret I think you should share

Maybe these luxuries can only compensate
For all the cards you were dealt at the hands of fate
So tell me
Tell me! tell me! How to be a millionaire
Tell me! tell me! How to be a millionaire!

Who wants to be millionaire?
I do! - I don’t! - I do!
Who wants to be millionaire?
I do! - I don’t!

I’ve seen the future and I can’t afford it

Written in the 1980s. These guys were way ahead of their time. The cartoon video’s a hoot, too.

Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-21 06:40:32

“Tell me! tell me! How to be a millionaire!”

Buy a case of toilet paper and hold on to it for 10 years. That should be about the same time house prices recover to 2005 levels.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:44:32

“You mean I will be able to sell the TP for a million dollars?”

“No, the TP will BE a million dollars…it will be the new currency. Kind of like gold. Currency that’s actually worth something. I’d call it ‘hard currency’ but it’s actually quite soft.”

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 06:43:16

Hmm. Doesn’t look good for the Eurozone, doesn’t look good for China.

Globalization. Worst. Idea. Ever.

Comment by Blue Skye
2011-12-21 07:12:24

Globalization ain’t what it used to be.

Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 09:24:24

4-5 years ago ADM was running PBS commercials touting food globalization: “Imagine the world as one giant farm field, where everything grows where it grows best…” narrated over stylized images of amber waves of grain.

I nearly hurled. One giant farm field is code for farming where the monocropping is easiest and labor the cheapest.

Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:49:03

…and the seeds are GM and you will be sued if they happen to drift onto your plot.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 10:13:59

“…and the seeds are GM and you will be sued if they happen to drift onto your plot.”

Easily one of the most evil corporate actions ever.

Heck, they should be sued for letting their genetically-modified-horrors pollute non-GMO growers’ crops!

 
Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 14:49:19

Exactly.

 
 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 07:31:30

Globalization. We don’t need no Globalization.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:11:57

But that means you’l have to buy your next car from … shudder … an American company … maybe even “Government Motors”.

I love the vitriol against GM. Our current GM vehicles are the most reliable cars we’ve ever owned. Better than the Nissans, Toyotas and Fords we’ve owned over the years.

Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:36:41

GM cars have indeed come a long way.

But… they are still overpriced compared to “imports” and the dealers are still SOBs I never want to deal with again in my life.

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-12-21 14:03:11

Genetically modified cars?

 
Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 14:50:50

MUTANT ZOMBIES CARS! :lol:

 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:48:49

I just hope by then they are making something I want. I’d be OK with a Z06-motor AWD 4dr Holden/G8.

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Comment by chilidoggg
2011-12-21 14:30:44

Hey, a Holden reference! Would that be “calais disregard” or will it be fully weapon?

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 14:58:20

Is that some kind of Mad Max reference or something?

 
Comment by chilidoggg
2011-12-21 15:20:21

Someone was posting on the blog while sniffing glue and made a reference to “calais disregard” which left everyone else dumbfounded. A visit to UrbanDictionary revealed that “Calais” is a package of Holden, which hipsters will describe as “fully weapon.”

We will never have these 60 seconds of our lives back.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 16:07:34

OK…well thanks for the explanation anyway :-). I had googled and seen the phrase all over the place (including here) as an obvious mis-spelling. Didn’t know the story, though.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 10:56:29

Well I guess it depends what you mean by American company. So many pieces and parts are imported, I can’t tell if something is globalized or not.

Like that Boeing Dreamliner. Talk about not seeing the forest for counting the beans…

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:28:26

Some Lilliputians seem to think it might be good for America to tie Gulliver’s income down to the 99%er income level. J K Galbraith’s ghost nods in approval.

Felix Salmon
A slice of lime in the soda
Income distribution charts of the day, middle-class edition
Dec 21, 2011 01:24 IST

Ian Ayres has an excellent post at Freakononomics today, explaining some of the background thinking behind his inequality tax proposal:

An important goal of our op-ed was to suggest a new unit of measure, “medians” to help us think about what it means to be rich. In 1980, if you earned 3.8 medians, you were in the top 1 percent, but by 2006 even the poorest in the 1 percent club earned 6.9 medians.

What we call the “Brandeis Ratio,” the average income of the richest 1 percent (which includes the billions earned by the lucky few) has grown even more disproportionate. As shown in the chart below, in 1980, one-percenters on average made 12.5 medians, but in 2006 (the latest year in which data is available) the average income of our richest 1 percent was a whopping 36 medians.

Ayres makes a strong case that there’s a real societal interest in capping this ratio somewhere — “it would be bad for our democracy,” he writes, “if 1-percenters started making 40 or 50 times as much as the median American.” So let’s not tax income; let’s instead tax inequality, and increase taxes on the 1% if and only if inequality is going up rather than down.

But here’s the thing: 36 times median income corresponds to an annual income of $1,780,020. I think we can agree that anybody earning over a million dollars a year is rich: that’s just 20 times median income. The 1% on average hasn’t earned that little since 1995.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 07:48:29

The $uffering $o’s, they been tax$lapped and can’t get up! Help ‘em!

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:49:23

“A slice of lime in the soda”

I’d like some vodka with that lime, please.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 08:00:02

“The 1% on average hasn’t earned that little since 1995.”

Small wonder this 99%er can’t afford to buy a decent Italian violin. The 1%ers have snapped them all up with printing press money as collectibles.

 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:29:54

Heck I’d be happy w a capital gains tax and dividend tax equal to the top income tax for all money and compensation over the 1% mark. I mean we have a progressive tax system for income why not for capital gains and dividends.

Let’s also tax financial transactions at .01cent. Nothing to the average trader but to the computer trying to manipulate stock prices on a daily basis it would be significant.

Tax oil and gas - We’ll import less.
Add a VAT tax as well.

Use money from above to make American labor cheaper. ie no payroll tax, single payer health care system, etc.

Comment by aNYCdj
2011-12-21 13:07:36

How about NO capital gains or dividend taxes on the first $25K per year….that would help the “middle ” class

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 20:42:46

I”m good with that.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:42:14

Preemptive disclaimer:

The post you are about to read is not from Rolling Stone, Mother Jones or In These Times, but rather from CNNMoney, a Service of CNN, Fortune & Money.

P.S. The income gap was similarly ginormous just before the onset of the Great Depression.

Income inequality in America
How the middle class became the underclass
By Annalyn Censky, staff reporter @CNNMoney February 16, 2011: 5:39 AM ET

The average American’s income has not changed much, while the richest 1% of Americans have seen their earnings surge.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — Are you better off than your parents?

Probably not if you’re in the middle class.

Incomes for 90% of Americans have been stuck in neutral, and it’s not just because of the Great Recession. Middle-class incomes have been stagnant for at least a generation, while the wealthiest tier has surged ahead at lighting speed.

In 1988, the income of an average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Fast forward 20 years, and not much had changed: The average income was still just $33,000 in 2008, according to IRS data.

Meanwhile, the richest 1% of Americans — those making $380,000 or more — have seen their incomes grow 33% over the last 20 years, leaving average Americans in the dust. (How the rich became the über rich)

Experts point to some of the usual suspects — like technology and globalization — to explain the widening gap between the haves and have-nots.

But there’s more to the story.

Comment by WT Economist
2011-12-21 08:30:31

It isn’t globalization, technology, or even the decline of unions. If the corporations are doing so well relative to labor, how come investors haven’t done better?

What has happened is the de facto union of corporate executives and directors has seized control of businesses, and are voting each other a higher and higher share of private sector wealth. It is political power, not economic and social trends.

After all, if workers are earning less and less, who are businesses going to sell to? Once the debt binge ended, sure enough, the top 1 percent turned to the coercive power of government to keep their party going.

Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 10:09:28

Unions and executive teams claw at each other for percentage of the profit. Nowadays, with few unions, it’s pretty much take as much as you can by the executive teams, which just drives for the worker bees lower.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 11:23:18

So is it fair to say the top 1% kept their purchasing power the same all these years despite inflation? It is only the rest of us that feel the sting of the loss. We either knew what was going on but weren’t rock the boat types or we really didn’t have a clue what was happening behind that nominal figure on the paycheck especially when balanced w/an anything goes extention of credit.

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:33:33

Here’s the difference.

In the GD war spending and driving up the price of farm goods and jobs programs pumped money into the middle class. This is not happening this time, instead the VAST majority of hte money is being given to the top 0.01%. It should be noted that during the GD the vast majority of consumed goods were produced locally thus this kind of stimulus worked great. In the US we will have to restrict trade or make imported goods more expensive (VAT tax, tariffs, t) relative to locally manufactured goods to make it work, or have an agreement with all of our trading partners that they too will stimulate their middle classes. To count on the later.

Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:45:38

Partially correct.

There are still plenty of American made products of every variety that cost the SAME as imports but are of better quality.

This: “What has happened is the de facto union of corporate executives and directors has seized control of businesses, and are voting each other a higher and higher share of private sector wealth.”, is the real reason.

Remember, companies are given TAX BREAKS to offshore jobs. Just end those tax breaks and there really is no difference in labor productivity costs. They are given TAX BREAKS to import. They are given all sorts of advantages that make lie of any concept of “fair market” and “competition.”

Comment by ecofeco
2011-12-21 18:15:24
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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:45:14

Got millions of mortgages in default?

Foreclosure sales still pummeling home prices
By Les Christie @CNNMoney December 21, 2011: 5:45 AM ET
Five years after the subprime mortgage meltdown started to hit, foreclosure sales are still hurting the housing market.

Five years after the subprime mortgage meltdown started to hit, foreclosure sales are still hurting the housing market.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — Nearly five years into the crisis, just how badly are foreclosures still hurting the housing market?

A whopping 46% of homes sold in November were either short sales or REOs — as homes foreclosed on and repossessed by lenders are called, according to a survey by Campbell/Inside Mortgage Finance released Tuesday.

“The huge glut of distressed properties coming to market is why there will be no home price rebound this coming year and maybe into 2013,” said Guy Cecala of Inside Mortgage Finance, a publisher of mortgage information and news.

One problem: Distressed homes sell for a lot less than homes sold by conventional sellers. The average price for a short sale (when borrowers owe the bank more than their homes are worth) was $209,000 in November. For a regular sale, the average is about $259,000.

The numbers are even worse for REOs, which averaged about $190,000 for properties in move-in condition.

“Distressed properties have the lowest prices for any category of home sold,” said Cecala. “To a large extent, that’s why we’ve seen continuous home price drops over the past three years and why those drops are likely to go on.”

Foreclosures fall but outlook isn’t bright

There is no shortage of distressed properties: More than 6 million borrowers are delinquent 30 or more days, according to LPS Applied Analytics. Two million are already in the foreclosure process, and most of these homes will be repossessed or sold as short sales.

House hunters have gotten accustomed to shopping for homes in foreclosure and any stigma that may have attached to REOs or short sales in the past has diminished. But many of these properties have been damaged, making them hard to sell and depressing their prices.

Indeed, the average price for a damaged REO was just $99,000 in November — 62% less than conventional sales, the survey found.

After all, some buyers don’t want to do major repairs and others are turned off by homes in poor condition.

Plus, getting financing for REOs in poor shape can be difficult, according to Cecala. Lenders don’t like to issue mortgages for homes in need of extensive repairs. Underwriters don’t want to wind up with houses worth less than their loan balances.

And in an insidious twist, as distressed properties are sold, they can also bring down the price of homes that aren’t in trouble. That’s because mortgage appraisers assessing a regular home’s value typically compare it to short sales and REOs in the area.

 
Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 07:51:59

Impressive:

Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 08:23:08

Do NOT question Obamamotors

Do NOT question the green movement

Do not question how government money is spent

They ALL have such good intentions…

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 08:38:29

They ALL have such good intentions “forward looking” prognostication$…

Nix, nix, nix,…just follow the TREND:

>40+ MPG :-)

 
 
Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 08:32:07

They should park those Volts at the OWS camps so all the homeless hippie commie junkie rapists can use them to keep warm after their engines catch on fire

Comment by Awaiting
2011-12-21 09:14:20

goon
I assume you don’t like the Volt, but Tesla is going to have major success with the Model S, and by 2015 take a big chunk of the EV market, with Toyota as a partner. Can’t wait.
It’s about time for the EV.

I hope you aren’t one of those far right Republican nutcases. Balance my friend. And not all the OWS are what you stated. Not all conservatives are Republicans. Life and people aren’t black and white. I prefer rainbows myself.

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 09:20:03

That post was supposed to be humor/sarcasm. I do not want a Volt but am strongly considering the purchase of a 2012 Prius C, which is due to debut at the Detroit Auto Show next month…

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Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:31:00

I think the Euros have the right idea: diesel cars. Hybrids are excessively complex and the batteries require vast amounts of energy to produce and will be expensive to replace.

Unfortunately VW is the only “mainstream” vendor to sell diesel cars in the US and their quality record (especially with the Mexican buit cars) is spotty at best.

 
Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 09:54:54

Didn’t you get the memo? Energy efficiency and renewable energy technologies are an affront to American Exceptionalism.

This is the meme that talk radio has successfully smeared any and all aspects of “environmentalism”.

Yes, the ROI will never pay off for many projects/research.

And yes, Al Gore lives in a big house and flies all over the world burning jet fuel.

Therefore the Diesel Jetta and Toyota Prius are for socialists/homosexuals.

 
Comment by Moman
2011-12-21 10:40:50

I actually like the Volt. I would buy one if it was a little cheaper, and I owned a home in which I could install the charging station.

I don’t get all the hate on the Volt.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 10:54:19

I drove a Volt. I like the idea of a plug in hybrid, especially if I could get one that would power my house during an outage. But the Prius seemed like a better car for the money to me.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-12-21 14:31:03

The Volt is a generation ahead of the Prius, as far as the technology is concerned.

As I’ve mentioned several times, a guy in the hangar here with me has a Volt. Zero problems. Has a 220 outlet at the house, and plugs it into 110v here at the shop.

Burned FOUR GALLONS of gas in the first 2000 miles.

I wish everyone would stop bitching about “government subsidies”. If it wasn’t for paying some of the startup bills (either directly, or indirectly), any technological advancement you can name would have been smothered in the crib by the “free-enterprise/profit motive” beancounters.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 15:42:36

I wish everyone would stop bitching about “government subsidies”. If it wasn’t for paying some of the startup bills (either directly, or indirectly), any technological advancement you can name would have been smothered in the crib by the “free-enterprise/profit motive” beancounters.

Which, of course, includes the government subsidies that got our beloved Internet up and running. Not to mention computer technology. A lot of that technology got its start as a government-subsidized project — remember the space program?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 08:35:24

Impressive I:

HUMMER H1
Suggested Retail: $34,830.00 - $69,670.00
<10 MPG
Turbo compressor 6,500 cc 6.5 liters V 8 front engine
Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 10,300
Low fuel level warning
Low tire pressure indicator
Low washer fluid level warning
Front seats cigar lighter ;-)
Clock
Compass

Celebrity Owner, H1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor Of California

$25,000 Federal tax deduction?,..you betcha!

Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 08:48:30

—-Celebrity Owner, H1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor Of California

$25,000 Federal tax deduction?,..you betcha!—–

Hummer. Owned then by what now is Gov’t Motors, I betcha.

But, it sold or failed based on demand.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 09:08:29

Aw Doc, you had Renee Zellweger @:

Front seats cigar lighter

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Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 08:50:17

One wonders how good a deal we obtained, selling Humvee

——

General Motors (GMGMQ Quote) has settled on a Chinese buyer for its Hummer brand, according to CNBC.

The Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co., in Chengdu, is the buyer, reported CNBC.

Sichuan Tengzhong is a private company, but the deal required approval by Beijing officials, who can veto any attempt at an overseas acquisition by a Chinese company and who closely follow deals over $100 million, reported The New York Times.

In a statement Tuesday, GM said the sale is expected to close by the end of third quarter.

GM, which filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday, said the deal is expected to “secure” more than 3,000 U.S. jobs in manufacturing, engineering and at Hummer dealerships around the country. The transaction also includes plans by the investor to “aggressively fund” future Hummer product programs, GM said.

The investor or the terms of the transaction aren’t being disclosed by GM under the terms of the memorandum of understanding.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:05:16

One wonders how good a deal we obtained, selling Humvee

Actually, I believe the two are different brands. IIRC, the military grade Humvees are not built by GM, but rather by a firm called AM General.

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Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 09:23:56

—Actually, I believe the two are different brands. IIRC, the military grade Humvees are not built by GM, but rather by a firm called AM General.—

Could be. Offhand I do not know. So, then, map the prior question to the Hummer group sold by GM. The question stands.

regards

-evil

 
Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:52:56

The GM “hummer” was a fake POS. It had the body style of a HUMVEE mounted on Suburban chassis.

By, for and of the stupid.

 
Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 10:13:47

—he GM “hummer” was a fake POS. It had the body style of a HUMVEE mounted on Suburban chassis.—

Perhaps. But that changes not the financial question posed.

 
Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2011-12-21 10:34:26

Colorado, you’re right. The military Humvees are made at a factory about 10 miles east of South Bend, IN owned by AM General, in which GM had controlling interest. The civilian model, the infamous Hummer, was also made there until GM decided to discontinue it in ~2006/07.

I was always somewhat conflicted about the whole Hummer shutdown. Personally I hated the wasteful things and the d*bags who bought and drove them. OTOH, many people were employed locally building them, and just like every other rust belt burg in flyover country that lost its manufacturing base, we sure appreciated the relatively high paying jobs that came with building them, my personal esthetics be damned. We’ve become basically an “eds and meds” (thanks to AZ Slim for providing that label) economy since the 1960s and as the manufacturers left shut down that trend will only intensify.

When I tell people here that the E&M model just means we’re tying our fate to the last 2 bubbles going, all I get are blank stares or comments like, “But they’re adding a new children’s wing at one of the hospitals and won’t it look great!”

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 10:43:26

South Bend, IN

Yay! Studebaker Wagons! :-)

 
Comment by Moman
2011-12-21 10:44:33

In case anyone is confused, that news article is from 2009. Hummer was shut down in 2010 and is no longer a company. The Chinese pulled out of the deal at the last second.

The sooner they are all off the road, the better. They could work as temp housing for some of their owners.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 10:48:34

Perhaps. But that changes not the financial question posed

this one: ;-)

Nix, nix, nix,…just follow the Financial TREND in question:

>40+ MPG

“we want our, we want our, we want our MPG!”

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 10:56:00

When I tell people here that the E&M model just means we’re tying our fate to the last 2 bubbles going, all I get are blank stares or comments like, “But they’re adding a new children’s wing at one of the hospitals and won’t it look great!”

The University of Arizona-affiliated hospital just opened its new children’s wing. It looks quite nice from the outside, but with this state’s ever-growing rates of poverty and uninsured status, I wonder how many people will actually be able to afford having their kids treated there.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:18:36

Perhaps. But that changes not the financial question posed.

How much do you think the Hummer divison was really worth? Apparently not a lot, as GM ended up shuttering the divsion when no buyer was found. Ditto for Saab.

No surprising, there still is excess capacity in the car biz. We will see more weak brands bite the dust as they can’t sell enough cars to cover their fixed costs.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 13:22:10

I’d still like to know if that purchase got the Chinese everything they needed to make H1s. That could still be of military value to them at some point.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2011-12-21 14:09:58

The University of Arizona-affiliated hospital just opened its new children’s wing. It looks quite nice from the outside, but with this state’s ever-growing rates of poverty and uninsured status, I wonder how many people will actually be able to afford having their kids treated there.

I think the answer is “An ever-growing number.”
Unless this hospital can turn away the poor and uninsured.

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 20:51:01

“The sooner they are all off the road, the better.”

From your lips to God’s ear. Please? Include SLOBurbans too.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 09:05:47

One wonders how good a deal we obtained, selling Humvee

Let’s ask some HBB bicyclist!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 09:59:48

There’s a down the street neighbor who owns a Humvee.

From what I can see, he has a hard time handling it. Seems like it’s a very broad vehicle that’s also top-heavy. Which means that you’d best not make any sudden moves, lest you roll your vehicle.

I try to not be riding on the street when I see the Humvee coming or going.

 
Comment by evildocs
2011-12-21 10:22:50

This evildoc is *very* happy still driving his then-new 2004 Honda Accord Coupe loaded (for a Honda). V-6. 250 hp. All black interior with leather. Great radio. Fast. Nice handling (esp after upgraded tires). No payments since 2008. Depreciates about $1000/year (try that with a new Humvee). Looks nice. Essentially “luxury car” in all practical respects, save making the mooks say “ooooh” due to the badge on the front… perfect. 120k miles. Rides like its first day from the lot.

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2011-12-21 09:31:43

There were an awful lot of government dollars behind the first computers too. You know, the ones with all the glass vacuum tubes?

And imagine how many government dollars are behind each and every successful drug, if you include all the government-funded failures which are documented only in academic papers and PhD theses.

As for cars, I think the wave of the near future is going to be plug-in hybrids, until the electric refueling infrastructure is widespread enough to phase out gasoline. I don’t want to be stuck on Route 80 looking for an EV station.

 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:39:39

This kind of analysis is FOS.
They did the same thing with the Prius.
People who wanted to discredit it looked at all the costs associated with R and D and added it to the cost of the small # of prius models that were produced. Of course now they are producing many more so those initial development costs are spread out over a much larger # of vehicles.

Many of the costs they are lumping together for the VOLT will also support other hybrid and electric cars coming down the pike. The costs will get spread over a much larger # of cars in that case. It’s called investment in the future.

Tell us evil doc and 2bannana - How is the US compete against foreign companies that get much larger assistance from their gov. Also tell us how does that 3 billion compare to the VAST tax and military and technology handouts to big oil and coal in this country. We’re all waiting.

Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 10:34:54

See above post: Toyota Prius = you are a Sissy

“Don’t be economic girly-man”

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 11:47:20

Then I’m a sissy

but I carry a big stick.

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Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 11:28:42

You mean like the USSR with the “Volga” model cars? :-)

And stop with I see “wrong over here” so this “wrong” is then OK. It is a bad 5th grade argument.

No one has anything against the US government helping out with RD or with new technologies.

What people get upset about is when government takes over ENTIRE industries (health care) or bails out failing companies (GM) or backs failing technology (Solyndra). Usually these “ventures” make NO SENSE in ANY economic terms except that they are either friends or large donors of the current occupiers of power in DC.

Tell us evil doc and 2bannana - How is the US compete against foreign companies that get much larger assistance from their gov. Also tell us how does that 3 billion compare to the VAST tax and military and technology handouts to big oil and coal in this country. We’re all waiting.

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 13:10:20

I support trying to get away from gasoline. I support policies that limit greenhouse gasses.

However, I’ve always wondered about the full lifecycle costs of hybrid vehicles. From factory to car crusher. Are these less, equal or more than pure gasoline vehicles.

I don’t like spending money on gasoline. Each percentage of that dollar gets fed to people who absolutely hate us. But what are the alternatives? I don’t want to go back to a pre-industrial society. I like antibiotics and warm clothes and houses.

Comment by MrBubble
2011-12-21 15:54:11

Look up LCA hybrid car on the google. The pdf paper that comes up third includes in the abstract: “…the greenhouse effect of the LPG[,] hybrid and battery electric vehicles are respectively 20.27 %, 27.44 % and 78.27% lower than for the gasoline vehicles.”

These figures include the use phase within the system boundaries and the paper was published for the “International Battery, Hybrid and Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Symposium”, so just be aware. I did not read the full paper, so I also wonder whether the need to buy a new battery pack every few years was included. I personally think (but have no data to support) that the limited use of an existing car is “better” for the environment than creating a whole new car, so I may have to peruse this paper at a later time.

“But what are the alternatives? I don’t want to go back to a pre-industrial society. I like antibiotics and warm clothes and houses.”

Public transportation, walking, bicycling, ride-sharing, planning one trip viz car rather than many, etc. won’t keep you from antibiotics, clothes and houses. We have a Mini Cooper and bikes for the two of us and the 10 month old and we do just fine.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 20:52:31

Who says you need to buy a new battery pack every few years there are people with over 250k on their prius with no need to replace the battery. I have a civic hybrid with over 160k and the battery is just fine. The battery on the new electrics leaf and focus are expected to go over 100k. The batteries can be recycled. Toyota has a program to do this. It will almost certainly be done with lithium.

You are correct though that there are many other ways to save gas. Hybrids and electrics are probably best for those who drive in town or rush hour traffic a lot, the lighter you drive the bigger their advantage over a gas car alone (ie my first generation prius got 62mpg in a horrendous traffic jam. Diesels are a great option for those in the mountains or driving long distances, and bikes and shoes are great for short trips.

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Comment by MrBubble
2011-12-21 23:56:38

“Who says you need to buy a new battery pack every few years”

Non-citable interweb meme. Oops. Thanks for fixing!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 07:56:44

Don’t know the whole story, but I take the impression that somebody high up the chain of command decided it was high time to tell Larry Ellison to take a hike.

Bulletin
Oracle shares plunge 13% early Wednesday, pacing tech-sector pullback as Wall St. retreats

Dec. 21, 2011, 9:41 a.m. EST
U.S. stocks open lower on ECB lending plan
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U.S. stocks surge; Dow up 230 points
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NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks began with modest declines on Wednesday after the European Central Bank said it would lend a record amount to euro-area banks. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA -0.29%) fell 36 points to 12,066.87. The S&P 500 (SPX -0.44%) declined 4.41 points to 1,236.89. The Nasdaq Composite (COMP -1.30%) shed 27.31 points to 2,576.42.

Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 09:40:30

Oracle got too big too fast over the past year. It bought Sun, ATG, Endeca and RightNow within a year or so. Just one of those acquisitions would be a pretty big deal All 4 in a year? Yikes. And this on top of buying BEA just a couple of years ago. Madness.

Rightnow is supposed to be the Oracle salesforce.com killer. But wait, Siebel’s on-demand product was supposed to be that as well. Complete failure. Siebel is yesterday’s news.

They paid waaaayyy too much for RT and investors have finally woken up to the fact that a) RT is no SFDC and b) it’s not worth the $1.5B ORCL paid for it.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:24:58

I’ll give Ellison credit, in spite of weak quarterly results he is investing in the future, which is more than can be said of most of his competitors. The guy is smart enough to not worry excessively about the current quarter (which was very profitable).

Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 17:35:57

True.

But I still think Oracle is trying to be all things to all people. And typically a company can’t do that. Be a DB company or be a CRM company or be an ERP company. You can do one, maybe 2 things well. You can’t do 20 things well, which is what Oracle is trying for. IBM learned that the hard way 20 years ago.

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Comment by palmetto
2011-12-21 07:57:31

An excerpt from an article by Jim Goad at Takimag about the Black Friday brawls. Nope, greed and deception is by no means confined to banksters and politicians. I say this because of a recent experience with a “small” business. “Small” business often deserves what it gets. It stays small, because the people involved are. Here’s why the 1% is successful: they often take care of their own. The 99% often cannibalizes their own.

“If any of these baseball-cap-wearing ass-sores clawing over one another at midnight to score a discounted toaster oven using their nearly tapped-out credit card had the slightest chance to be a despised villainous oligarch, they’d cannibalize every peasant within a hundred miles and then go out for lobster puffs with champagne. This isn’t to say that greed is inherently good, only to point out that it’s not confined to those who’ve been successful at it.”

Please share this article by using the link below. When you cut and paste an article, Taki’s Magazine misses out on traffic, and our writers don’t get paid for their work. Email editors@takimag.com to buy additional rights. http://takimag.com/article/the_black_friday_brawls/page_2#ixzz1hBDr53cw

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 09:27:50

What percentage of the population actually does the Black Friday midnight scuffle brawl shopping?

 
Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 09:29:46

It’s not a secret that poor people want to be rich.

Sadly, many (most?) poor people have been led to believe that turning rich people into poor people turns poor people into rich people. Which is pretty much the entire platform of the Democrat party.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:47:37

Yes asking that the top 0.01% pay the same tax rate as I do instead of 50% less is asking too much. Asking that financial theft by the elite and market manipulation be regulated and prosecuted is too much. They deserved their bailouts pure and simple.

As a prostitute to the elite do you feel dirty after posting?

Seriously show me one proposal that turns the top 0.01% into a poor person.

Plenty of people believe that the MASSIVE wealth discrepancies in the US are destroying democracy and free markets. Many believe that many of those in the top 0.01% didn’t really deserve their wealth. Like Hank Paulson who was allowed to sell all of his GS stock at the top with no tax penalty saving him 200 million dollars and making him the highest paid gov employee ever at over 100 million a year as treasury secretary. There are many more examples.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 10:40:43

“Yes asking that the top 0.01% pay the same tax rate as I do instead of 50% less is asking too much.”

I’m hopeful that we will see this eventually. It makes no sense for the rich to pay a dramatically lower rate than those who have to work for “earned income”.

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Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 15:03:08

That’s just damn commie talk!

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-12-21 11:54:51

“..allowed to sell all of his GS stock…making him the highest paid gov employee ever…’

Selling his stock was income from his Fed job?

Anyway, GS bigwigs shouldn’t have to sell their stock when they take top positions with the FedGov. It is by definition not a conflict of interest.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 12:47:02

“Selling his stock was income from his Fed job?”

Not having to pay capital-gains taxes on his stock sale was a huge financial benefit to Paulson. Because the sale was forced by his assuming his position, he did not have to pay capital gains on the sale.

 
Comment by chilidoggg
2011-12-21 15:14:38

LOL

“not a conflict of interest.”

oh crap that so funny taint funny

 
 
Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 17:41:33

So now we don’t hate the 1%, we just hate the .01%? It’s a start I guess. Although the 99.99% vs. the .01% isn’t as catchy as the 99% vs 1%

Basic math lesson you should have learned in jr. high… a small % of a big number is bigger than a big percent of a small number. Someone paying 15% of $100M pays more than someone paying 25% of $50K. Yeah the % may be lower but the $ value is a 1200 times more. To say that someone paying $15M in taxes is somehow not paying their share compared to someone paying $12,500 is absurd.

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Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 20:54:10

Lame.

 
 
 
Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 09:55:32

Yeah, ’cause turning rich people into even richer people has been a boon to the middle class!

Oh wait…

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:17:22

Sadly, many (most?) poor people have been led to believe that turning rich people into poor people turns poor people into rich people.

Oh please. Making them pay the regular income tax rate on their capital gains and rolling income tax rates back to what they were under the Reagan administration will not make the rich become “poor”.

Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 11:32:15

Can we bring down government spending as a percent of GDP to the Reagan Days too?

Oh please. Making them pay the regular income tax rate on their capital gains and rolling income tax rates back to what they were under the Reagan administration will not make the rich become “poor”.

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Comment by measton
2011-12-21 11:54:37

Are you really that stupid 2b

zfacts.com/p/57.html

Reagan was a big F’n spender and the national debt mushroomed under his leadership.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 12:58:15

He’s not stupid, he wears ideological blinders.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:20:08

Can we bring down government spending as a percent of GDP to the Reagan Days too?

I’m all for slashing military spending. When can we start?

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 13:20:43

1986 - Government spending as a percent of GDP - 35.7%

2010 - Government spending as a percent of GDP - 40.3%

That means we need to cut 11.5% of today’s spending (note - cut actual SPENDING not just the increases in the rate of spending)

Just to get back to the INSANE SPENDING levels of Reagan…

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html

 
Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 14:00:21

I’m all for slashing military spending. When can we start?

go for it…

Military spending is about 20% of the budget and already shrinking.

Entitlements are about 55% of the budget and still rapidly growing.

(You’re going to need a bigger boat)

 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 20:56:49

unfortunately you ignore 2 things.

1. GDP is currently down from it’s trend line due to a bursting of the bubble. This will of course increase your spending to GDP ratio.
2. Much of the spending done is due to rising medicaid and unemployment benefits and not due to proposed budget increases.
3. And of course debt is not just a function of spending but of tax revenue.

 
 
 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-12-21 12:07:27

I think most poor people just don’t want to be poor. Most poor people have modest dreams of being able to afford decent housing, food, and medical care and not having to work 3 jobs to get it.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:21:40

+1

Plus they don’t get healthcare with 3 PT jobs.

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 13:30:13

:-)

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Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 13:17:13

“If any of these baseball-cap-wearing ass-sores clawing over one another at midnight to score a discounted toaster oven using their nearly tapped-out credit card had the slightest chance to be a despised villainous oligarch, they’d cannibalize every peasant within a hundred miles and then go out for lobster puffs with champagne.

I reject that. I don’t think the average person is neither smart nor sociopathic enough to be an effective high level executive. People are forced by the universe to look after their own physical and mental well being first, and they empathize with those like them - friends and family - first. But, what was it that Christ said about the rich man (Matthew 19:24), “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

I support wealth creation, I reject mystical thinking, but age-old stereotypes are persistent because of their basis in fact. I support capitalism as a way to generate the most wealth and allocate it most fairly for the most number of people. But, look at the robber barons of old, and look at our current crop of robber barons, and keep an eye out for camels getting perilously close to sewing needles.

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 13:26:16

Actually, the “eye of a needle” refers to a small gate that allowed people to enter and exit a walled city after sunset when the main entry was shut (to protect the city from marauders). Since the eye of a needle was very small a camel would not fit through it.

 
 
 
Comment by frankie
2011-12-21 08:17:32

I know the Sarkozy trade has been mentioned before but it’s been more successful than they could have hoped. Edited highlights are

Huge demand for ECB’s three-year loans

Eurozone banks have rushed to take out cheap three-year loans offered by the European Central Bank, borrowing 489bn euros ($643bn; £375bn).

The central bank had originally hoped to lend up to 450bn euros to stop another credit crunch crippling the banking system.

Over 500 banks raced to borrow from the scheme, which was far beyond market expectations.

“A cash for trash mechanism allowing banks to access cheap funds and buy up more sovereign debt - or more likely just shore up their own finances,” is how Justin Urquhart Stewart of Seven Investment Management described the scheme.

Although the ECB has ruled out lending directly to countries, banks taking the three-year loans at 1% are being encouraged to invest in sovereign debt at 6% to 7%.

Full details

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16282206

Comment by Mike in Miami
2011-12-21 09:02:25

No surprise. The ECB printing money was the only way to keep the Ponzi scheme running. The banks can offload their PIIGS securities for fresh cash which they can in turn loan to the PIIGS. So the gravy train is once again under full steam. Of course the fiscally prudent/savers are mercilessly punished.
Think about it. You get fresh cash from your uncle @ 1% to go out and speculate in the market. If all goes well you get to keep the profits. If not your uncle will buy your poor investments back at full face value and give you more money to go out and try your luck again. Not a bad racket those banksters having going for themselves.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 09:50:09

and again this could have been done at any point. The bankers put it off so that they could take control of Greece, Italy, Spain and push austerity on the masses, all the while planning to lavish themselves with cash once their takeover was complete.

 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 10:12:16

And we’re supposed to get efficient markets with this kind of central planning going on.

I wonder when we’re going to get away from the centrally planned real estate markets.

As I’ve noted in the past, this system will continue till it breaks. If something has worked, or has perceived to work in the past, you can bet humans will keep doing it in the future. It’s a Pavlovian response, very simple really.

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2011-12-21 11:40:02

Define “encouraged”.

Comment by frankie
2011-12-22 04:05:16

Not sure but I think it involves the use of a cattle prod.

 
 
 
Comment by yensoy
2011-12-21 08:58:29

So now it’s official

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/21/real_estate/home_sales_revised/

Realtors Are Liars®

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 16:32:13

That’s right. Read it folks. ReaItors truly are Liars.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 09:03:44

“What’s the matter with Kansas?”…now we know!


Did the military haul a UFO through Kansas?

By Eric Pfeiffer | The Sideshow – 51 mins ago

“Clearly people are interested in what’s going through town. It’s unusual to see a shrink-wrapped ********, especially one with that shape,” McKinney said.

“We built two for the Navy, they were being tested at Edwards Air Force Base [in California] since March. One is on its way to Maryland, and the other will remain in California.”

Comment by yensoy
2011-12-21 09:17:19

What does F in UFO stand for?

They didn’t have any other way to transport this? Here’s a hint, what does F stand for again?

Or maybe it can’t do subsonic.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-12-21 11:30:54

Yeah……a UFO is going to have landing gear and tires that says “Goodyear” on it.

Peeple is ignunt.

The Feds don’t like unmanned aircraft that size flying thru US airspace.

I’d have expected better out of people from Winfield (formerly host to a big Cessna facility, and still home to a General Electric engine maintenance/overhaul shop).

Of course, one wonders why they are going thru Winfield at all……bypassing the weather to the north? Highway clearance issues? (Wouldn’t think it would be that…..I’ve seen F-18s in shrink wrap on depressed center flatbeds on I-35 and I-70)

“Maryland” = Patuxent River Naval Air Station (HQ of Naval Air Systems Command; US Navy equivalent of Edwards AFB)

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-12-21 09:26:24

is this who we turn america over to?

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/50201

Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 10:13:52

It must be different here, you don’t see that eclectic collection of wierdos and land whales in my neck of the woods, not even at the local WallyWorld.

I guess even our white trash out here is better.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 10:42:39

We have 3 Wallyworld’s in my general shopping area. One my husband forbids me to go to afraid I could be accosted in the parking lot. (I go anyway….shhhhhh!!!!) The other two are fine. What I sometimes see there are the foodstamp crowd. When I see a Mom who’s got mostly diapers/babyfood in her cart and just a teeny bit of adult choices and I see her sweating out her food stamps, that’s when I see the full impact of this downturn.

I think I just decided as I typed I ‘m paying for that Mom the next time I see something similar. I just hate to see people that scared. It’s soul crushing. And at least I’ll know the money won’t be going to pay for some charity exec’s European vacation.

Comment by turkey lureky
2011-12-21 16:18:16

It’s nation crushing.

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Comment by GEG
2011-12-21 17:47:52

CarrieAnn:

“When I see a Mom who’s got mostly diapers/babyfood in her cart and just a teeny bit of adult choices and I see her sweating out her food stamps, that’s when I see the full impact of this downturn.”

How about when you see that same mom get into a brand new $42K SUV right after using the food stamps? How do you feel then? As God is my witness I saw this happen at my local grocery store. Just happened the woman in front of me paying with an EBT card was parked two spots away and I saw her. I know the SUV is $42K because I have the 2009 model. So not only am I paying for her groceries, she’s driving the 2011 version of my SUV.

But don’t you dare suggest we cut govt spending. That woman might have to - HORROR OF HORRORS - drive a $25K SUV instead. We can’t have that kind of right wing insane policy can we?

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Comment by ecofeco
2011-12-21 18:16:44

People DO lose their jobs, you know.

And how do you know it was hers?

Stereotype much?

 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2011-12-21 10:53:26

Not many obese meth addicts here in the Centennial state…

 
 
Comment by sfrenter
2011-12-21 10:47:07

people of walmart dot com is hands down one of the funniest and most depressing websites ever.

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 10:44:45


Comment by measton

2011-12-20 20:32:43

Really so it’s the liberals that think gov should be cracking down on medical marijuana????? I think you might by typing from a pot dispensary as we speak.

No, really it is big pharma that wants it to be controlled.

THC is ok if big pharma produces it in pill form. If you can produce it readily and cheaply yourself, big pharma loses.

Follow the money.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 11:01:34

THC is ok if big pharma produces it in pill form. If you can produce it readily and cheaply yourself, big pharma loses.

A now deceased friend had cancer for, oh, the entire time that I knew him.

The last couple of years weren’t pretty, but he did have one source of comfort. That would be marijuana. He said that it worked far better than any prescription med, especially when it came to relieving nausea caused by chemotherapy.

He got his seeds via mail order from other countries. Planted them in pretty pots on his back porch, and oh, did he have some nice plants. Which could not be seen by any of his neighbors.

 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:07:23

I was being sarcastic.

I’m all for medical marijuana I’d rather all that good money go to the state instead of the state spending mountains of cash fighting it’s importations and jailing users.

I agree 100% this is alcohol and drug makers pushing this crackdown.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 12:12:13

“I was being sarcastic.”

:-) I figured that, but couldn’t stop my fingers from typing anyway… :-)

BTW, does anyone have any good speculation as to why we are finally seeing distillation (e.g. micro-distilleries) being allowed? I’m guessing that big-alcohol was behind the extention of prohibition except for the big-boys; but the last few years, things really seem to have loosened up.

Any guesses as to why? Is big-alcohol not paying their fair share of contributions/bribes in recent years?

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:21:06

I’m not sure what you are talking about.

In my state the gov has been allowing big alcohol to control distribution hurting smaller brewers. So from my view no big money is still trying to shut down competition.

Fortunately I think many consumers are voting with their dollars and saying no to the forming oligopoly. This is why they buy up small brands but keep the lable so the consumer thinks he is buying local brew.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 12:37:28

There are a ton of micro-distilleries sprouting up in Washington State.

It sounds like it is a regional thing; the wikipedia page for “microdistillery” suggests so:

“The U.S. Government regulates distilleries to a high degree and currently does not distinguish its treatment of distilleries in terms of size. This stringent regulation has prevented microdistilling from developing as rapidly as microbrewing which enjoys relatively more relaxed government control. A number of states, such as California, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Utah and Washington, have passed legislation reducing the stringent regulations for small distilleries that were a holdover from prohibition.[1] The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF) and the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) are responsible for enforcing Federal statutes as they apply to all manufacturers of beverage alcohol.”

I thought it was ATF that made it difficult in the past, but perhaps more of the difficulty was attributable to state regulation than I had realized.

Still, though, the question remains: why now?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by sold in 04
2011-12-21 11:07:17

Victor Davis Hanson

A Vandalized Valley

While the elites make excuses, citizens cope with theft and destruction.

I am starting to feel as if I am living in a Vandal state, perhaps on the frontier near Carthage around a.d. 530, or in a beleaguered Rome in 455. Here are some updates from the rural area surrounding my farm, taken from about a 30-mile radius. In this take, I am not so much interested in chronicling the flotsam and jetsam as in fathoming whether there is some ideology that drives it.

google and read you will nt be disappointed !!!!!!!

Comment by X-GSfixr
2011-12-21 11:58:51

Yeah, well he decries the loss of civility. And concludes with blaming it all on the illegals.

Too bad, so sad. Maybe he should have taken it up with all his friends and neighbors who were using illegal labor, before they had a 11 million+ strong wave of unassimilated migrants flood the country.

But what about the US-born wretched refuse who are stealing copper, you say? I say a bunch of those people didn’t start stealing, until they found themselves priced out of the legit labor market by illegals, and/or their jobs got sent off to Chinidia.

The fix is simple, IMO. Throw a few hundred people who hired illegals into jail. Better yet, find a few families who have had family members murdered by illegals, or killed by uninsured, drunk-driving illegals, and sue the living crap out of anyone and everyone who ever employed them.

Or have local governments recover the unreimbursed costs imposed on the taxpayers by illegals, by either suing their employers, or taxing the crap out of alcohol and Mexican Restaurants.

At least, let’s give my plan a try for a few years.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 13:26:12

I am starting to feel as if I am living in a Vandal state, perhaps on the frontier near Carthage around a.d. 530, or in a beleaguered Rome in 455

(Hwy glances at wine cabinet) That’s awful, eyes am 99%er and eyes don’t feel that ways in the least. ;-)

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2011-12-21 11:43:16

Did we already know the adjustment was going to be as bad as 14%?

An average of 14% fewer existing homes were sold annually between 2007 and 2010, according to revisions reported Wednesday by the National Association of Realtors, pointing to a housing market that was even weaker than previously believed.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/existing-home-sales-downwardly-revised-14-2011-12-21-100210?link=MW_home_latest_news

Comment by WT Economist
2011-12-21 13:51:54

Good news! Now that past sales have been adjusted downward, current sales are up from those levels!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-21/u-s-existing-homes-sold-since-2007-revised-down-by-14-magnifying-slump.html

“Sales of existing homes in the U.S. rose in November to a 10-month high, showing demand may be starting to stabilize following a plunge over the past four years that was steeper than previously calculated.”

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:18:03

onsumers may be cutting debt and banks may be tightening up their balance sheets, but borrowing by U.S. corporations is in full swing.

At a time when the popular narrative centers on how tight-fisted banks are getting with their lending, end-of-year data for syndicated loans tell a different story.

Corporations use syndicated loans for longer-term financing. The loans usually are provided by a group of deep-pocketed lenders who can distribute liability among them and thus decrease their risk. Big Wall Street investment banks are usually the source of such loans.

So far in 2011, syndicated loan volume has increased a whopping 56 percent compared to 2010, according to Dealogic. The total of $1.76 trillion is the highest single-year sum since the pre-financial crisis days of 2007.

This came even though fourth-quarter activity saw a pretty big tail - the $354.5 billion total was the lowest in more than a year, since the $246.6 billion in the third quarter of 2010, Dealogic said.

Moreover, the U.S. was the biggest player in the space, with 47 percent of the total global loan volume, up 9 percentage points over 2010.

The bulk of the loans went to the most credit-worthy.

Investment grade volume increased to $1.03 trillion, also the highest since 2007, representing a 68 percent year-over-year gain.

Interpretation
1. Corporations are borrowing and not spending on capital equipment.
2. CEO’s want their paycheck to flow as long as possible. Having a mountain of cash is a way to accomplish that. They don’t care about the companies inabillity to pay the loan back if things get worse down the road. They are interested in their paycheck.
3. CEO’s want a mountain of cash so they can buy up the pieces of what’s left of America after the next crash.

Or as this NYTimes article suggests. Corporations are borrowing cash cheaply to drive up the price of stocks so insiders can unload.

nytimes.com/2011/11/22/business/rash-to-some-stock-buybacks-are-on-the-rise.html?_r=2

This suggests those at the top are going to cash as much as possible and leaving the bag of debt to everyone else.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:23:16

This is a smaller version of carlyle and other groups going public.

he Carlyle Group, a Washington-based private-equity firm that manages in excess of $150 billion, is going public. That, at least, is the intent of the company, which has filed papers with the Securities and Exchange Commission to set the process in motion. While it isn’t likely to happen before early 2012, the announcement generated a fair amount of attention.

They all want to go to cash.

Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:28:26

Review of carlyles plans

thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/06/the-carlyle-group-goes-public-why-the-stocks-won-t-thrive.html

Anyone who buys this stock IPO will loose hand over fist. I suspect that a lot of retirement plans will be the suckers. The retirement plan administrators will some how make out like bandits though.

Blackstone was smarter they went public in 2007 or 8,

This is what the NYT said

ounders — such as Mr. Schwarzman and his partner Peter Peterson — naturally want to cash out when business is booming, and private equity has been on a tear in recent years. Going public while the stock market is strong is a way to convert some of Blackstone’s value into cash. That’s not to say that Mr. Schwarzman and Mr. Peterson believe that the stock market is currently at a top. But it wouldn’t be crazy to read it that way.

NO it wouldn’t be crazy.

 
Comment by rms
2011-12-21 13:20:34

“he Carlyle Group, a Washington-based private-equity firm that manages in excess of $150 billion, is going public.”

Time to sell their bad assets to the teacher’s retirement system?

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 14:18:24

3. CEO’s want a mountain of cash so they can buy up the pieces of what’s left of America after the next crash.

This is my guess.

 
 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 12:32:15

When those at the top are going to cash, does this suggest they fear hyperinflation????

Comment by 2banana
2011-12-21 13:21:53

You go into ANYTHING but CASH in hyperinflation…

Suggests deflation

When those at the top are going to cash, does this suggest they fear hyperinflation????

 
Comment by In Colorado
2011-12-21 14:15:54

Or maybe they fear an asset crash.

 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 20:59:21

Again sarcasm thus the multiple ?????????????????????

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 13:06:29

I was just thinking - 35-40% of people don’t aren’t real estate owners. It’s this 35-40% that the government is screwing especially hard. The government is bailing out the FIRE sector and pandering to real estate owners/debtors, but 35-40% is a very large block of people, much bigger than the traditional interest groups that politicians pander to.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 14:04:45

gobble, gobble, …peck, peck,… gobble, gobble

Behind Boehner’s Debacle:
The Daily BeastBy Patricia Murphy | The Daily Beast – 11 hrs ago

…a group of Republicans they’ve dubbed “the kamikazes,” the GOP freshmen who arrived in January on a wave of Tea Party anger and have shown time and again that they are willing to blow up their careers and everything around them in service to their cause.

The “kamikazes’” casualty list this year is long. They blew up the debt-ceiling vote this summer, sparking a downgrade in the nation’s credit rating. They blew up the appropriations process so thoroughly that routine spending votes morphed into philosophical standoffs that nearly locked down the federal government three times and required seven temporary funding patches just to keep the lights on. And this week, they managed to blow up not just a tax cut that nearly everyone in Washington agrees is a good idea, but also their party’s hard-earned reputation for cutting taxes and, quite possibly, their chances at a long-term majority in the House and future control of the Senate.

Most Americans support cutting spending, cutting taxes, and shrinking deficits, all organizing principles of the Tea Party when the movement sent nearly 90 new members to populate the House GOP’s ranks after the 2010 elections. But their decision again and again to stop a bill instead of modifying it, to reject a proposal instead of changing it, has put House Republicans in a suicide pact with themselves, tying Boehner’s hands and then walking him and their entire caucus off a plank together.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 14:14:07

the GOP freshmen who arrived in January on a wave of Tea Party anger and have shown time and again that they are willing to blow up their careers and everything around them in service to their cause

Interesting. I’m sure they have their good and bad points. I can’t put an understanding that being a Congressman shouldn’t be a “career” in the “bad” category, though. I admire those who don’t get sucked into trying to turn it into a career. Folding on term limits was one of my biggest disappointments in the class of 94.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2011-12-21 14:16:40

…a group of Republicans they’ve dubbed “the kamikazes,” the GOP freshmen who arrived in January on a wave of Tea Party anger and have shown time and again that they are willing to blow up their careers and everything around them in service to their cause.

And guess what? A year from now, some of these kamikazes will find themselves in the private sector. Where their reputations will precede them.

It won’t just be them. Their Congressional staff members will also find that the reputations of their former bosses will work against them in the job market.

Something like this happened to a friend of mine. He was an aide for a local city council member. During her re-election campaign, she did everything she possibly could to sabotage herself. It was to the point where it wouldn’t have been surprising to see her piloting a plane in a kamikaze dive.

Any-hoo, she lost the election. On the day that her successor was sworn into office, she was asked if she wanted to say a few words. Her response was to stomp off the stage.

Well, there was my friend, out in the job market. Trying to find a job when it was very well known that he’d been on the staff of That Sore Loser.

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2011-12-21 21:53:17

I’m beginning to wonder if Cantor is undermining Boehner because he wants to be Speaker. Is he trying to push Boehner into bipartisanship so that the caucus will abandon him? It sure looks like a power struggle within the Republican party.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2011-12-21 15:40:00

http://www.savingsbonds.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

US debt just surpassed our GNP: $15 trillion. It was $10.6 trillion when Obama took office.

Comment by Ben Jones
2011-12-21 15:51:44

So much for the Keynesian idea that deficit spending will get you out of a recession.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-21 16:09:12

Maybe if we borrow more and give it to Wall Street? If we hurry there might still be time…

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 16:31:09

Krugman would merely say that that proves his point, and that the Keynesian stimulus needed to be much larger to begin with. :-/

Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 16:50:32

This is the beauty of unfalsifiable claims.

Keynesian Stimulus: Costly, Unproven And Unfalsifiable

The 2009 stimulus, of course, should have been much larger than merely $800 billion. The failure of that amount, or four or five times that amount, would simply have meant that the spending was too modest. Keynesian stimulus is like religious faith–unfalsifiable. If the stimulus had worked? “Told ya so.” If didn’t work? “Told ya so,” again. The notion of Keynesian stimulus as a cure to a deep recession is at best a very costly unproven theory.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2011/11/22/keynesian-stimulus-costly-unproven-and-unfalsifiable/

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Comment by aNYCdj
2011-12-21 19:45:25

If a few thousand of that $800 billion were diverted into my pockets we would be in a recovery.

simple math $3,000 times 150 million adults equals oh wow $450 billion… Wow QE2 could have sent me another $2,000 and we’d still have plenty of Billions left over to maybe cure cancer…..

 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 21:06:55

There is one thing I’ve learned in the last year is this. Let me preface this by saying that I truly abhor labels but I must use them here. Nearly all liberals and 75% of conservatives are completely clueless about finance or monetary policy. Some of the hare brained notions I hear from liberals is head shaking. Not so much in what needs to be done but how to accomplish it. Conservatives seem to be anti-Keynesian until it comes to their own wallet. Keynesian ideas merely dilute savings and keep the Govt/Fire/Corporate Crime Syndicate empowered.

I’m just a dumb construction guy and don’t pretend to be Joe Economics but I think I have a more knowledgeable perspective of “the problem”. Deficit spending is a big part of it.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2011-12-21 21:48:19

When it’s shuffled around on paper and it creates nothing….but what if we spent that money on people and building things?

Yes spend money on people….lower interest on CC to zero for 5 years….they almost eliminated all job training funds in NYC for people who are unemployed or on welfare, that’s a lot of savings there

The worst now is trying to keep up with technology when money is scarce how about a basic laptop with computer lessons for poor folks…and you must go to computer classes with your laptop and pass or your benefits will be cut off…..fair enough?

If money can be wisely spent (invested)..then deficits don’t really matter right now. but so far we failed on that one.
———
Deficit spending is a big part of it.

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2011-12-21 21:06:26

Not really Ben because you have to show that austerity would work better. GDP in Ireland is falling as is the GNP. Let’s see what happens in Europe, although my belief is that the austerity will soften going forward there. Also there really has been very little Keynesian stimulus when you take into account the drop in spending at the state levels the real issue is total gov borrowing and spending. Also monetizing the debts of banks is not the same as Keynesian stimulus, if that money does not end up circulating in the economy.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 20:53:35

US debt just surpassed our GNP: $15 trillion. It was $10.6 trillion when Obama took office.

Means very little iffin’ yous unable to ballpark$ the underlying a$$et$ known as: America/U$A/Federal Re$erveInc.U$D

Come on $ammy, to$$ out your be$t gue$$: $___,___,___,___,___,___.oo

:-)

The MTV crowd sings:
“We want our, we want our, we want our, payday loan$!”

M as in More
T as in Trillion$
V as in Va$aline

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2011-12-21 16:39:21

Bernie Madoff was more legitimate than NAR.

 
Comment by Neuromance
2011-12-21 19:06:40

High & Low Finance
A Central Bank Doing What It Should
By FLOYD NORRIS
Published: December 21, 2011

“Talk tough, and open the vaults.”

That should be the slogan of Mario Draghi, the president of the European Central Bank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/business/a-central-bank-doing-what-central-banks-do.html

 
2011-12-21 19:28:23

Had lunch at the NY Fed with a buncha economists.

They still don’t get it, it’s freakin’ unreal. My friend (who works there and invited me) was smirking all the way through lunch (he gets it clearly.)

Great lobster ravioli though.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2011-12-21 20:42:02

Great lobster ravioli though.

Yosemite Sam & Hwy50: OURS BISCUITS ARE BURNIN’! FIRE IN THE HAT! GREAT HORNY TOADS, …THAT SOUNDS SOOOOOOO GOOD!!! ;-)

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2011-12-21 22:34:27

Hey FPSS, can you clarify what it is that they don’t get?

Seriously, they have to recognize the _basics_ at this point, right: that we had an easy-credit-fueled asset bubble, and it will be over when it has returned to its natural unmanipulated equilibrium.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2011-12-21 23:04:29

“Great lobster ravioli…”

They don’t call it Club Fed for nothin’…

 
Comment by rms
2011-12-22 00:01:17

“They still don’t get it, it’s freakin’ unreal.”

Sounds like, “Enemy at the Gates.” The Russian officers enjoy a gala ball while the conscripts, three men per rifle, are being turned into hamburger helper by the Germans.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2011-12-22 06:08:26

Into the valley of Debt
Rode the Three Hundred Million.

‘Forward, the Debt Brigade!’
Was there a man dismay’d ?
Not tho’ the taxpayer knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to pay & die,
Into the valley of Debt
Rode the Three Hundred Million.

Bailouts to right of them,
Bailouts to left of them,
Printing ppress in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Millions of houses they would not sell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Debt,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the Three Hundred Million .

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Debt Brigade,
Noble Three Hundred Million.

Comment by Carl Morris
2011-12-22 08:49:41

Works for me.

 
 
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