We’ve been touring rental houses again lately. We’ve yet to see one that was charging enough to cover a mortgage for the last sale price, even at current mortgage rates.
One poor owner told us that her, her husband, and her four children were all moving back in with his parents because they couldn’t afford the house anymore. He was a cabinet installer (oddly, the kitchen cabinets were old and awful). According to her they were renting it out for $600/month less than the mortgage payment. How that was going to “help” them I have no idea. I figure it will be in foreclosure within the next 6 months and I didn’t want to deal with that.
The landlords we spoke to were desperate to get us to fill out an application. Each and every one said most applications were from groups of 4-5 roommates or from people who had horrible credit. I’m sure we could get a good deal on one if we find one we like.
Meanwhile, our current rental house is falling apart. We’re still paying less in rent than the mortgage. We know that for sure because the house was purchased just before we moved in. The foundation was washing out. They got a quote for repair that was over $30,000. Instead they’ve filled in some holes and piled up dirt to temporarily stop water from running under the house. Most of the exterior wood is rotten. Now we’ve found termites and they exterminator said the house will need to be tented. They said because of the unusual shape of the house it will require bringing in a crane and will cost a large sum of money.
Or having the rent cover half to 2/3’s of the mortgage while you live for free in mom’s basement is better than paying the whole thing yourself. Not everyone is a deadbeat, jeff. They may stop paying later, but not everyone with a bad deal has already stopped paying.
Needless to say, there will be no housing market recovery until this situation has reversed. Given the prevalence of deadbeat owners, we are talking about a period of years for this reversal to play out.
Comment by polly
2012-01-08 09:21:01
OK, Liz. Show me the study. Where are you getting your “facts”? I said “not everyone” so all I need is to have personal knowledge of one person fully paying on an underwater house/condo to prove my point. You need a lot more than that.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 09:32:14
For some reason there are folks who want to believe that practically everyone who is underwater has stopped paying the mortgage and has been living rent free for years. Usually this belief is based on anecdotal evidence from their neck of the woods.
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-01-08 10:53:39
I have one friend who is seriously underwater and is still paying. I know the numbers.
Comment by polly
2012-01-08 11:53:05
Everyone I know who is underwater is still paying. Every single one. And like I said, I only have to have one example for my statement to be true. I’m waiting for someone to provide numbers to prove that even a majority of people who are underwater have stopped paying.
I don’t claim to know lots of underwater homeowners, but the ones I do know are also continuing to make payments. My guess is that even though the number of underwater homeowners who stopped making payments is doubtless historically large, the majority of underwater borrowers, and particularly those with the means to do so, continue to honor the contracts they signed.
Comment by polly
2012-01-08 12:36:32
OK, I’m going to take a portion of my statement back. I am reminded that I have at least two relatives that the family grapevine says are probably going to get foreclosed on, so they must have stopped paying at some point. But I haven’t talked to either one in over two decades (I have lots of nice relatives, I don’t need to hang out with the unpleasant ones), so I’m not sure that I really “know” them anymore. I am, however, aware of them.
All the underwater people I actually spend time with are just paying. Some are waiting (uselessly in my opinion) for prices to rise so they can sell and others are just paying because they like their house and want to keep it.
Comment by Liz Pendens
2012-01-08 15:35:17
I guess polly knows more suckers than I do. Give them some more time…
Comment by Avocado
2012-01-09 14:22:45
There is “underwater” and there is “underwater.” If you are out $100k, it would not be wise to keep paying.
It’s a PITI to learn how bad members of the accidental landlord brigade were at figuring out how well their investments would pencil out.
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Comment by Moman
2012-01-08 14:00:28
I suspect that is many (too many) cases landlords are figuring their ROI based on the small downpayments. Look at some of the other websites where investors are figuring a 7-10% yield on putting down a 3% pittance downpayment, expecting that the monthly rentals will cover the payments and they’ll have a free house at the end of the loan period.
In every single case I’ve seen, mathematically they are figuring best case assumptions and in reality a single month of vacancy in a year will push them into a breakeven or loss position for the year. Any significant repairs will force them to lose money for years. They don’t want to hear that though.
Or maybe they think this downturn is just a tempoary dip (as all other downturns during their lifetimes have been temporary dips) and all they need to do to be made whole again is to ride it out.
Federal Reserve Bank of New York President William Dudley called on the U.S. government to try new programs to revive the housing market while saying the central bank may still consider ways to cut interest rates.
“Implementing such policies would improve the economic outlook and make monetary accommodation more effective,” Dudley said today in a speech to bankers in Iselin, New Jersey. At the same time, it’s “appropriate” for the Fed to consider steps to ease monetary policy, he said.
…
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Comment by Montana
2012-01-08 14:10:42
Instant classic.
Comment by Moman
2012-01-08 14:21:37
We could be spending 200% of tax receipts and it wouldn’t be enough for some people.
A lot of people still believe that we will “bounce back” soon and that the EZ money will flow once again. Many still believe that housing can reignite the economy. It’s not surprising as so many benefited from the bubble: construction workers (both skilled and illegal) realtors, mortgage peddlers, movers, furniture stores. Even the car dealers.One thing I have noticed out here is that the local dealers (the ones who didn’t fold after the bust) carry tiny inventories these days. I remember when the local Ford dealer had a virtual armada of pickups on its lot and you’d see hordes of brand new trucks, with the ubiquitous new car tags on them, cruising around town.
So yeah, everyone just want things to go back to the way they used to be, not wanting to understand that it can’t.
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Comment by combotechie
2012-01-08 10:01:37
“So yeah, everyone just want things to go back to the way they used to be, not wanting to understand that they can’t.”
And Times should get very Interesting once everyone who doesn’t want to understand that they can’t are forced to understand that they can’t.
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-08 10:57:29
Yes, it’s a bad time for many businesses and their employees.
My personal experience was tough. I worked for many years with Architectural/Engineering firms as a designer, but saw no way to really move up into better opportunities working for small/midsize firms.
My lucky break came in 2001 when a manufacturing company specializing is structural products was looking for an engineering manager here in Florida. I applied and got the job at a company that had been in business 35 years locally and more than 40 from the National chain that took over our facility. It looked great. I found a steady, reliable business, with good pay and benefits and a chance to work my way up in a much bigger company.
In 2002, business picked up more, going into 2003, I got raises and more staff, as business began to pick up.
Then construction took off in housing…..2004-2007 record sales and expansion…Huge increases in volume. The sky was the limit. Massive sales volumes……Then the downhill slide started.
Backwardization. Layoffs started and continued into the end of 2009 when I got booted, too.
All I wanted was a STEADY job, with a reliable company that had been in business for decades. It lasted just over 8 years.
Instead of a steady “growth” of business, we experienced a huge bubble, lots of new employees, and expansion, followed by collapse. We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.
The company had expanded 100% of employees in the last 3 years. When it was over, there were about 20% of the original number before the boom. The BUST did not take us back to the pre-boom days. If so, I would still be working.
Instead, it completely wiped out the business viability of a steady business operation…
So, yes, you are correct, it’s not going back to where it was.
That company has never expanded to a fraction of where they were when I started in 2001. Where’s the growth?
Can’t happen.
“We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.”
On today’s other thread, Ben posted an article suggesting that Greenspan deliberately inflated the housing bubble to offset other factors that were dragging down the economy. Has the Fed yet bothered to assess whether this policy was effective?
Comment by Rancher
2012-01-08 13:01:10
I didn’t read the article, however, I have to agree with the conclusion. I think Greenspan
deliberately lowered rates and encouraged
the housing boom to off set the decline from
the dot com crash. Considering this is not a housing bust but a credit bust, he brought forward by a decade the crash that would have happened anyway, just later.
All I wanted was a STEADY job, with a reliable company that had been in business for decades. It lasted just over 8 years.
Instead of a steady “growth” of business, we experienced a huge bubble, lots of new employees, and expansion, followed by collapse. We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.
Diogenes, I recall your discussion years ago that the company’s management were seated for a discussion regarding further expansion plans near the top of the bubble, and that you were the lone dissenting voice. Sounds like previous success (this ship can’t sink!) clouded the obvious construction bubble.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 15:59:40
Sounds like previous success (this ship can’t sink!) clouded the obvious construction bubble.
It’s always more tempting to believe that success comes from one’s genius as opposed to luck.
Loving your documentary link. I’m watching one on swarms, about how information is exchanged when large groups gather trying to extrapolate to the human condition…. Thanks for posting.
I would like to thank Moman for putting this into words.
Hell hath no fury like a Deadbeat LL who hasn`t made a mortgage payment in over a year when the rent check is 2 days late.
Comment by Moman
2012-01-07 22:20:33
“Reminds me of my situation. Paid $1100/mo faithfully for years, after 1.5 years of no contact and them not replying to emails I didn’t pay one month as I didn’t even know if they still owned the place. Wasn’t but a couple days later that hell hath no fury than a deadbeat LL who doesn’t honor her contracts, but gives me hell for not honoring mine, threatening to trash my credit (good luck, they had a fake SSN & BDay), giving me lines like they have been so gracious to let me rent under market rates for years, that it’s not their fault they weren’t able to flip the condo and are now being sued, etc.”
So? Just remind them that they would have a heck of a time finding someone else to rent it at any price given that a few seconds of research would show any future tenant that the mortgage is being paid. No further details. Let them imagine that a record of them not paying is somehow the top search result even if it isn’t.
There is a lot of entertainment value in that.
Plus most “standard” leases include a grace period for rent. Cite the section and hang up.
“Just remind them that they would have a heck of a time finding someone else to rent it at any price given that a few seconds of research would show any future tenant that the mortgage is being paid.”
If you meant show them the mortgage is not being paid, to the best of my knowledge that is not always true. The last place I rented did not have any public record of LP being filed even though they did not pay the mortgage for close to 3 years. The only way I knew was from the inspectors that came around every couple of moths.
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/10/2005 15:26:02
CFN: 20050503883
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 19062/448
Pages: 21
Consideration: $276,000.00
Party 1: SARRO JAMES
SARRO NANCY
Party 2: WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK FA
Legal: JUPITER LNDG L119 L
And then nothing until the short sale in 2010
Type: D
Date/Time: 3/24/2010 15:59:53
CFN: 20100111175
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 23759/443
Pages: 2
Consideration: $150,000.00
Party 1: SARRO JAMES
SARRO NANCY
Party 2: MARRIOTT BRENT L
MARRIOTT BRANDY A
Legal: JUPITER LNDG L119 L
Where I am now a LP was filed on Type: LP
Date/Time: 5/5/2010 08:12:01
and my wife and I were listed as tennants on the Notice of voluntary dismissal when they somehow got a workout from WELLS FARGO BANK NA
Type: NOT
Date/Time: 11/5/2010 09:06:10
CFN: 20100421103
Since then they have again stopped paying the mortgage but I wouldn`t know it if I had not opened a letter to the LL that came here 5 months ago saying they were 3 months behind and if they did not pay in full it would be accelerated. Since then the Wells inspectors have been by 3 times (the latest last week) but there is no record that I can find that says they are currently late at all.
That is what I said. Let them think the information is easily available even if it isn’t. The original poster had actual knowledge the mortgage hadn’t been paid.
Obviously, you can’t play this game if you think the mortgage is being paid. Or you can, but you are guaranteed to lose.
Personally, jeff, I think you should get out of that house because you spend way too much of your time obsessing about how your situation isn’t fair. It seems to gnaw at you in a way that is not healthy. Paying more to rent another house with a paying (or fully paid) owner would be much better for your mental health.
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Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 10:02:25
“Paying more to rent another house with a paying (or fully paid) owner would be much better for your mental health.”
How would that change the fact that ALL the rents in decent neighborhoods (at least where I live, maybe not in Clorado) are artificially inflated? But as far as….
“It seems to gnaw at you in a way that is not healthy”
I am sure that is true. I know many people like the ones I posted about before Christmas that my kids played ball with who have lived in a really nice house, took out a huge chink of “equity” and they have not made a mortgage payment in 4 years and yet still live there. They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 10:33:44
You know Polly is right, this is not healthy to let this gnaw at me. RAL is right too, “I am a POB”.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now
Seinfeld - Serenity Now Montage - YouTube
15 Mar 2007 … A collection of clips from the hilarious Seinfeld episode “Serenity Now” … Kramer Gets Lost Downtownby redxiii0101 16154 views · Thumbnail … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4 - 124k - Cached - Similar pages
Comment by SV guy
2012-01-08 10:59:13
“..and YES it pisses me off.”
Fear not my brother, you are not alone. This debacle pisses me off too.
Comment by polly
2012-01-08 11:47:02
Remember the brief conversation we had yesterday about not giving your kids things they will not be able to provide for themselves later (other than education). Your kids are not necessarily worse off for not having the things that you aren’t buying for them. Living within (even better under) your means is a great lesson for kids. Teaching him or her to want a life that includes all the stuff you can collect while not paying rent or a mortgage is a terrible thing for a parent to do to a child.
polly is very sensible and smart, so she is right a lot.
I concur with her that your frequent bitterness about your living situation cannot be healthy for you.
Life is fundamentally unfair; if you focus on that too much, it can eat you up from the inside. Accept, and make the best of your situation—that would be my advice.
Thank Heavens for people like Polly who are very sensible and almost always right, too. (I myself am married to one. )
Comment by polly
2012-01-08 12:42:09
I hit my “it’s not fair” stage around 9 or 10. It was in full swing by 11. My mother’s constant rejoinder was, “Who promised you life was going to be fair?” I think I finally got it - really got it - about 12 years later. So, it isn’t a quick lesson, but it is worth learning.
‘My mother’s constant rejoinder was, “Who promised you life was going to be fair?”’
Though my wife and I are far from being the perfect parents, we at least have had the good sense to preach this message to our kids early and often.
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 12:49:43
“I hit my “it’s not fair” stage around 9 or 10″
I have also known life is not fair since I was a kid, however I am hitting my “totally corrupt” stage at 52.
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 14:39:51
“Serenity now…sanity later.”
Actually it`s….
“Serenity now, insanity later.”
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 15:42:04
I know many people like the ones I posted about before Christmas that my kids played ball with who have lived in a really nice house, took out a huge chink of “equity” and they have not made a mortgage payment in 4 years and yet still live there. They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.
And when the lenders decide that the “free rent” era is over these people will be kicked out of the houses, have no credit and will probably be dogged by by their creditors coming after them with deficiency judgements. Their kids will become accustomed to living in cramped apartments with shady characters as their neighbors and the spending sprees will be a thing of the past.
Even if they are buying nice toys today I wouldn’t trade places with them for a second.
If life isn’t fair, then WHY THE HELL AREN’T WE FIXING IT?
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-08 19:35:52
“They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.”
Yeah I’m with you Jethro. When it comes to our own offspring, all bets are off. I *think* I know exactly what you’re experiencing and my extreme bout with this occurred during the bubble years when we all were made to feel like losers for renting or whatever your situation was/is. *WE* are better people because of it but let’s this not detract from the sense of injustice it was and still is. There is no answer but I do share your sense of outrage and I think your personal experience reflects what is happening on the ground in your area as Colorado previously mentioned.
I’ll say that nothing will change without your rage. Directed it at the Housing Crime Syndicate. JMHO and advice.
Agreed but that wouldn’t have worked. They actually sent me an appropriate, legal lease termination notice between the crossed communications, because they wanted me out, so I wouldn’t be called to testify in their foreclosure suit that I had been paying rent and they were pocketing it. There was an element of fraud going on as well between them, and in such as I didn’t want to lawyer up, I agreed to leave peacefully.
Leave peacefully and be sure to contact the bank that will be doing the foreclosure so they know how to contact you to testify (or at least be deposed about) your payments if you like. Not that the fact that you were making payments matters in the least - it doesn’t or at least shouldn’t. But if they kick you out to keep you from telling the truth about them, then you can certainly find a way to still be able to do it.
Revenge isn’t a noble pursuit, but it isn’t entirely useless when all you have to do to get it is make yourself available to say something true. And it IS better served cold.
So banks loan money that does not exist and get paid back with money that does exist. Deadbeats live in houses that do exist that were bought with borrowed money that did not exist in hopes of selling them to a bigger fool that never will exist. Renters pay LLs that do exist with money that does exist for dwellings that also exist even if the LL is not paying the mortgage that does exist which was borrowed from a money supply that did not exist because until the dwelling is foreclosed the Deadbeat LLs property rights still exist. All of this to keep dwelling prices up because if they dropped the Too Big to Fail balance sheets would reveal the fact that they loaned a lot of money that never existed?
My head hurts, I am going to cut my Deadbeat LLs lawn now and probably watch the 1PM playoff game.
So banks loan money that does not exist and get paid back with money that does exist. Deadbeats live in houses that do exist that were bought with borrowed money that did not exist in hopes of selling them to a bigger fool that never will exist.
When you put it that way it sounds like a problem.
“Money as in cash money; The stuff one uses to buy things with.”
As in the cash money that Deadbeats have because they don`t send their cash money that does exist to pay back the loans that they were given in money that did not exist.
I was lied to by a Realtor yesterday! Went to look at a brand new house in Jupiter Fl., pretty nice little 1800 sq. ft. CBS house and it has been on the market for 120 days In an area that could have gone either way. It was listed at $199k and the Realtor suggested I offer $170k and at that I would have done well. There were only 3 other houses on the street so I stayed a few minutes after the Realtor left and talked to the neighbor right next door. The really great thing about stealing this house at $170k would be the in I would have being able to join a gang from knowing my new neighbor! And what the heck if I didn`t want to join the gang my kids would have ample oppurtunity to do so with what would be our newly found gang member neighbor.
That`s one of the funny things about this area. Where I grew up there was a gradual transformation from neighborhoods where one wouldn`t feel safe to neighborhoods where one would feel safe. Down here it can be the other side of an 8 foot privacy wall around a community.
Baby boomers, who were notorious for prolonging their own adolescences well into their 20s and beyond (”Seinfeld,” anyone?), are feeling the financial sting now that their own offspring have their hands out.
The problem has only grown since the financial crisis, the official recession and the economic doldrums that have swamped the country.
The crux of the matter: The kids are out of work, out of money and maxed out.
But so are Mom and Dad, who have seen their own retirement nest eggs cracked, their retirement incomes shrunk and even the value of their nests—the family home—fall.
And despite those woes, financial advisers are seeing a trend in boomer parents supporting their children, even when it means they are taking away from their own retirement security.
Will Ellis, a financial adviser in La Grange, Ga., tells the story of a 60-something couple driven to the brink of insolvency by their 30-year-old daughter’s profligacy.
A real-estate agent during the housing boom, she racked up $850,000 in debt (including on her house, her car and her second home) before the recession hit and her income was slashed by over 80%.
Lucky for her, Mom and Dad were willing to help out—so much that Mr. Ellis figured they would themselves have gone broke in little more than a decade.
“How much are you willing to sacrifice?” Mr. Ellis recalls asking the retired couple. “Are you willing to give up your own needs?”
Mr. Ellis’s clients made the tough, and right, call. They cut off their daughter.
…
Wow. You ain’t kidding! My nephew turns 36 this year, worked one year in his life, still lives with his mom (my sister). My niece is in her late 20s and also lives with my sister. At least my niece is in college. My sister only worked for eleven years. She’s in her late 50s. So she will get little in Social Security.
They don’t know my income nor my net worth. I need to party like there is no tomorrow. At least I would want them to believe that.
My dad had the work ethic and it’s ingrained into us. That sister works six or seven days a week. But she does not make much money. If she worked in her field she got her bachelor’s degree in, she could be earning three or four times what she’s making now.
The other siblings and I don’t like to talk about the crisis that will develop when that sister’s obesity catches up with her and what would her adult children do?
It’s all a matter of personal choice. We gave up long ago giving them advice. It kept falling on deaf ears.
Maybe I should buy two Mustang 5.0 litre GTs. For myself.
This becomes very scary when thinking of transferring the house to the kids. That 850K debt becomes a real nightmare to the parents if she owned her parents house and had to file BK
The funny thing is the 30-something gal probably made no more than a middle class income but was one of those who think they could become like Robert Kiyosaki or Donald Trump. Essentially, since Trump has gone bankrupt a few times I think she achieved such a goal.
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Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2012-01-08 10:04:19
Oops - yeah the gal was a realtard. That explains. Easy money by shilling to victims.
“Essentially, since Trump has gone bankrupt a few times I think she achieved such a goal.”
Not really; apparently Trump had the good sense to grow his financial speculation activities to a level where he was too-big-to-fail in the eyes of his bankers. $850K in personal debt isn’t going to cut it.
Yes. Please buy yourself something you love and start enjoying it. Travel. Rent an amusing lady companion. Anything. Of all the tragedies here on the blog, yours is the most poignant and self-inflicted. LIVE!
I have started to tell myself this too. Just had a week in Hawaii and I’m thinking of spending a week in a New England state in late June (if I can rent a mountain bike there).
Consulting forces me to not own much material possessions. A house that will be empty 320 days per year. A new car sitting at my home state’s address.
However most of you people here say we are living in very tough economic times and if you have a job and are earning money you are lucky. So that is the contradiction. To “live it up” in times of high unemployment is dangerous.
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Comment by Carl Morris
2012-01-08 14:54:13
Conspicuous consumption may be or get dangerous. There are plenty of ways to enjoy the fruits of your labor that don’t have to be conspicuous.
Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2012-01-08 15:03:01
Agreed. Vacations are the way. I can still wear average clothes, drive an average car, drink a good beer, and not appear moneyed, whereas by blowing it on a guarded gated house in Paradise Valley I’d be armed and patrolling my estate constantly.
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-08 19:39:36
“and not appear moneyed,”
wow Bill…. you’ve outdone your own delusions once again.
Stunning.
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-01-08 20:26:00
Pssst, RAL, it was satire.
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-08 20:35:58
oops. I see that now. RAL is wrong.
Comment by goon squad
2012-01-08 21:53:02
Come visit Colorado and summit a 14er, you’re not living until you have…
This reminds me of Aesops “The Miser and his Gold”:
A miser sold all that he had and bought a lump of gold, which he buried in a hole in the ground by the side of an old wall and went to look at daily. One of his workmen observed his frequent visits to the spot and decided to watch his movements. He soon discovered the secret of the hidden treasure, and digging down, came to the lump of gold, and stole it. The Miser, on his next visit, found the hole empty and began to tear his hair and to make loud lamentations. A neighbor, seeing him overcome with grief and learning the cause, said, “Pray do not grieve so; but go and take a stone, and place it in the hole, and fancy that the gold is still lying there. It will do you quite the same service; for when the gold was there, you had it not, as you did not make the slightest use of it.”
I am starting to “live” eg spend more. I am in mid fities with lots of savings. The finacial meltdown really spooked me. All that money could be taxed and / or inflated away. I just bought a new sofa and bed. It was really hard for me to do that. But anytime I’have spent money on myself have never regreted it.
Wow, Allena—are you really in favor of free-markets in companionship, or was that tongue-in-cheek?
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Comment by ahansen
2012-01-08 12:30:03
Whatever works for consenting parties is fine by me. Sometimes it’s best to just be honest about the whole process– saves a lot of thwarted ideation and heartache.
The difference between a mistress and a prostitute is that you pay the prostitute to go away. A wife (of either gender,) you just pay.
Business Sci-Fi Brothel to Open in Nevada An infamous entrepreneur plans to open the Alien Cathouse, located 90 miles from Las Vegas.
By Melissa Locker | @woolyknickers | January 1, 2012
Hey gents, have you ever found yourself jealous of Captain James T. Kirk and his, …er intergalactic conquests? Do you longingly watch Jabba the Hutt’s dancing slave (her name is Oola, if you’re interested) and wonder, what if? Do you long to go where no man has gone before? Well, once a new sci-fi brothel opens in Nevada, you can.
…
I remember my sister saying she just wants all her family together. So again, this is her choice. On her meager income she has two extra mouths to feed, more clothes to launder (I doubt if her adult kids do their own laundry). She does not even have a car anymore. I figure she ran her old van into the ground because she could not afford the maintenance.
Such poverty is self-imposed. And there are no drugs involved. I guess I should also add that my 30-something nephew who worked one year in his life claims to be a Republican conservative! No wonder I’m a libertarian!
Not mine, certainly. I’d LOVE to have my son living with me when I’m decrepit. So would his father. He’s a great person, and so are his friends. They’re all welcome here on the ranch. Of course, they all know that I’m going to make them get their hands dirty while they’re around.
I cannot understand how someone could bear, nurture, love a person for eighteen years and then just wish them away. What’s the point in the first place?
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Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 12:49:30
I cannot understand how someone could bear, nurture, love a person for eighteen years and then just wish them away. What’s the point in the first place?
It’s an American “family value”. One that perplexes foreigners and makes them wary of us.
Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2012-01-08 14:26:12
Perhaps it’s because (once again) America is relatively the “new world” and survival meant knowing how to be on your own.
As for “making them work,” I hope that is all a voluntary thing. I wrote on another thread on some blog that there is too big of an alarm/panic about the childless boomers “not having someone to care for them as they get older.” I think that is not necessarily true.
There are many ways to find a trustworthy younger person to “take care of you.” And why focus on someone a generation younger? A much more healthy 5 year younger person can be appointed power of attorney and carry out the fiduciary duties in a trust.
The apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree. The Boomers’ moral relativism has not surprisingly produced spawn who like their parents are soulless, hedonistic, and crass, while being devoid of anything resembling core principles and convictions.
“…spawn who like their parents are soulless, hedonistic, and crass, while being devoid of anything resembling core principles and convictions….”
Sounds like SOMEbody needs to get out more often…. The young people I know are as steadfast and exemplary as any I’ve met in my life. And that “moral relativisim” has allowed them to take a reasoned and compassionate stance on the many idiocies and inequities visited upon this world by their elders. Our future is in good hands– provided they can pry it from ours.
“The young people I know are as steadfast and exemplary as any I’ve met in my life. And that “moral relativisim” has allowed them to take a reasoned and compassionate stance on the many idiocies and inequities visited upon this world by their elders”
Where do you live?
Corey Graham Jr., 19, of Belle Glade, makes his first appearance in court Sunday Jan. 8, 2012. He is charged with first degree murder with a firearm, armed robbery with a firearm and aggravated assault with a firearm in the Jan. 2 death of Belle Glade grocery store owner Jimmy McMillan.
By Bill DiPaolo and Mitra Malek
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 10:18 a.m. Sunday, Jan. 8, 2012
WEST PALM BEACH — The 19-year-old college student charged with murdering Belle Glade grocery store owner Jimmy McMillan will be held on no bond and can only communicate by phone with the public defender appointed to him.
Palm Beach County Court Judge Nelson E. Bailey this morning said that due to “the nature” of the crime with which he is being charged, Corey Graham Jr. would be held on no bond
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Comment by ahansen
2012-01-08 12:41:51
I live in the mountains of Central CA, but the young adults I refer to live all over the planet. I dare say a few even post here on HBB…!
Have you ever tried to befriend one or three, jeff? You might be surprised at the commonality.
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 13:38:43
Yes I know quite a few good kids. The number of bad kids although far greater in the area I live now than where I grew up, on a percentage probably hasn`t changed much since I was a kid. But it sure seems like the bad things they do has gotten a lot worse.
“Have you ever tried to befriend one or three, jeff?”
Actually I have befriended hundreds. I coached little league baseball and softball from 1995 - 2005 from T-ball to travel teams that placed nationally. Believe it or not I was a highly coveted coach in Palm Beach Gardens. I was best remembered for taking Rec kids that had a lot of trouble playing or in school. I would have the parents of kids that had trouble playing (usually hitting) bring them to a field where no one would know and work with them, usually throwing them a big play ball you would get at Kmart. Those kids would have a blast smacking that thing and watching their parent chase it down. Then I would tell them that there was no difference between the center of the big play ball or a baseball or softball. Some took more work than others but when those kids would get that hit in a game the smile on their faces as well as their parents was worth 3 years of no house payment. A few kids that were great players and playing meant a lot to, got sat down (although it POd some people for taking one of our better players out of a game) because of problems in school, which for that season anyway took care of that. Those parents were very greatful.
That is where my wife and myself met quite a few single parents who we have tried to help through the years wether it was work around their house or with their kids. I have coached kids from very famous golfers grandchildren to kids who were living at the poverty level. I have kids and parents come up to me frequently and tell me how much fun they had and the year or years they had with me were the best times they had. That makes you feel good even if you are an old “POB”
Comment by ahansen
2012-01-08 14:24:48
The day this tiny, scrawny little tomboy first connected bat to ball was one I’ll never forget– and it was thanks to someone like you who saw me struggling and took the time to help out with a few pitches and suggestions. I went on to develop a sweet, hard low fly to the outer fields that left everyone who underestimated me agape. I was a fast little bugger, too, and sneaky off of second base….;-)
Thanks, Jeff!
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 16:08:21
“I was a fast little bugger, too, and sneaky off of second base…”
You must meet different young people than I do. The ones that I encounter are incredibly self centered and lacking in ethics.
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Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-08 13:01:24
My two oldest daughters have employed boyfriends/husbands who are stand-up guys.
The 18 year old……..uhh, not so much. She just broke up with him (again). He’s currently on my $h#t list, for punching my 52″ LCD TV while arguing with my daughter. Then running away like a giant p###y when I showed up.
(He ran before I knew he had trashed the TV. Maybe he isn’t as stupid as I thought….Funny……he never trashed HIS stuff when he has these tantrums)
Told her that I would be real disappointed with her, if she got back together with this loser. This is about the fourth time they’ve “broken up”.
Comment by Moman
2012-01-08 15:02:37
Better hitting the TV than your daughter. Maybe he needs some anger management help?
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-01-08 15:14:10
They say hitting stuff is an indicator of higher than normal propensity to hit people eventually. I don’t know for a fact that’s true, but it makes sense to me.
People are people. I have met intelligent young-un’s and and quite a few dopes as well. Probably near the same percentages as prior generations.
I view my responsibility as trying to light the critical thinking flame of non-conformity in our youth. Question authority. Question statism. Be honest, hardworking. Let your word be your bond. Be consistent, reliable. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I’ve got a kid working onsite that is literally dumb as a stump. True organic stupidity. Nice kid, works hard. But dumb, dumb, dumb.
He’s a friends kid so I take special care with him. He would have been fired otherwise.
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Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-08 12:28:04
Bet he’s a legend among his peers playing Grand Theft auto?
Nice kid, works hard. But dumb, dumb, dumb.
Comment by Rancher
2012-01-08 13:20:53
Kids. We called the local HS to see if they
had any young men who would like to earn
some pocket money doing some chores.
We were assured the young men were hard working, responsible, and honest. We fed
them lunch and only one showed up the next day, saying he didn’t mind the work as he was raised on a ranch. One out of four…..
It took us three years to find a young man to
help work the ranch. Trying to find someone who shows up on time, understands what has to be done, and when done, finds things to do, is honest and happy with machinery is an almost impossible task. We had some that didn’t even make it to lunch on their first day.
Jim has been working for me now for 12 years, off and on now that we sold the ranch. He started out at $650/week, now
it’s almost double and worth every penny.
Comment by Rancher
2012-01-08 13:42:09
You need to watch this video….nothing like
a sense of entitlement in kids…
Chambliss is a teacher at a third-rate community college who shills for Neil Boortz, YAF, and other right-of-Attilla the Hun causes.
His students seem to understand better than he does that American society functions as it does not because of our aristocratic institutions but our democratic ones. (Well, in theory, anyway….)
In the interest of an educated electorate and competitive workforce, I’ve long advocated the idea of free tuition for those who qualify — with the expectation that it will be repaid by a commensurate stint of public service. (Like it is in most civilized countries; indeed, in our own socialist military.)
Society-supported health care (Medicare, anyone?,) benefits us all, as does ensuring adequate housing so we don’t have half the population living on what’s left of our streets.
Note, too, that the “survey” as cited edited out the word “affordable” and implied that the students expected “the government” to GIVE them down payments for housing.
Chambliss also selectively describes his “study” to Fox using the word “expect” rather than “envision” to describe how the survey was worded to his classes. He never quotes directly from it or offers visual documentation. But then, this is Fox….
And while these two smug commentators were bemoaning government entitlements for the benefit of the Fox viewership, they completely missed the point that these kids were the very people who will be deciding public policy when it comes time for them to depend on the younger generation for their survival. And that the kids have a pretty expansive idea of what civic responsibility entails. (Hint: it’s not working as serfs to an insular financial elite.)
So. Let’s demonize “Kids Today” for their communality, and teach them that social consciousness is evil, that money is earned in a vacuum, that entitlements for the poor as well as the rich are innately unfair, that the wealthy are victimized, that government is a grab, and that rather than being a member of an inter-dependent society, they are on their own– and so is everybody else .
“But so are Mom and Dad, who have seen their own retirement nest eggs cracked, their retirement incomes shrunk and even the value of their nests - the family home - fall.”
And after all this stored-up money is gone, then what?
It looks as if a large section of the economy is running on fumes.
It looks as if a large section of the economy is running on fumes.
Which is why I’m worried about the Fed’s jawboning about the return of EZ loans. I think that they will do something crazy, line 2% fixed rate NINJA loans, with waivers for underwater loan refis to “stimulate” the economy.
If this idiocy comes to pass we’ll sell the house and downsize.
The Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) has voiced its approval for the Federal Reserve’s recently released white paper that provides a potential framework for improving the health of the housing market.
MBA President and CEO David H. Stevens, in a press statement released by his office, noted that the white paper - titled “The U.S. Housing Market: Current Conditions and Policy Considerations” - mirrored many suggestions and observations previously raised by the trade association.
“The Fed’s white paper is a thoughtful document that raises a number of very interesting issues that policymakers ought to consider as they seek to solve the ongoing ills of the housing market,” Stevens said. “The Fed staff’s comments validate much of what we have been saying, as it relates to the balance between credit availability and consumer protection, as well as the role that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could play in stabilizing and revitalizing the mortgage market.”
… Blah blah blah…
Translation: the Wall Street-Federal Reserve Looting Syndicate is getting ready to bend over the taxpayers, yet again, for another DELIVERANCE-style reaming. Aided and abetted by the Republicrat majority on Capitol Hill.
They might be sensing that the window of opportunity is closing. A friend of my wife’s, a TV addicted sheep and Obama Zombie in ‘08 (redundant, I realize) got her wake-up jolt with the NDAA. That shook her up enough to question her previous (vapid) assumptions, and she’s developed a sudden interest in the Ron Paul campaign. One thing is certain: the kleptocrats can no longer assume that 95% of the electorate will remain the docile sheep they were in ‘08. Thus the pillaging looks set to go into high gear while the banksters can still rape with impunity.
Can’t tell if this is RAL-like satire or if you’re genuinely off your rocker, son. Normally, you’re a fairly well-reasoned poster, but well, to tell you the truth, I’m kinda concerned about all of this…
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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-08 13:01:04
It’s satire. Not particularly subtle, but satire nonetheless.
Comment by SV guy
2012-01-08 16:00:50
Subtlety was never my strong point.
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-08 16:14:37
There’s a guy on Zero Hedge who posts as “Million Dollar Bonus” who is a master of satire. He winds up all the firebreathers over there by showing up and defending the Fed and saying how Ivy League educated elites really should be running the world. He gets the posters foaming with rage when he explains, straight faced, why Ron Paul should not be running for public office. At first I thought he was a world class jacka$$, but quickly realized it was satire at its best. The key is to make the satire BELIEVABLE, RAL!
A government-facilitated large scale REO-to-rental program.
Federal funding for a “land bank” program to acquire and either demolish or rehabilitate properties with very low value.
Relax lending standards!
Let Fan and Fred offer refinancing even to loans that are not GSE- or FHA-insured/guaranteed.
Expand/modify existing HAMP and loan modification programs.
The net result is more money transferred from us to the banks. Check out “The role of Banks” that starts near the bottom of page 15 of 28. There are some interesting facts on how long banks can hold REO properties.
The cost of housing must be kept above what indivicuals can pay for it. Low cost housing must not be put in the hands of individuals, rather in the hands of landlords who can profit from individuals. Round up the herd and close off the exits.
It’s a very similar concept, when you think about it, to giving Megabank, Inc zero-percent loans which they can lend out to the masses at ‘market rates.’ The goal is to provide the landlord/bankster class carte blanche opportunities to ream the rest of us.
With all of the exciting news of the Fed’s latest hair-of-the-dog housing market stimulus initiative, I have recently ignored the euro zone debt crisis. Is it poised to end some time soon?
The planned 50 percent writedown of Greek government bonds held by private creditors as part of a debt swap won’t be enough to make the country’s debt sustainable, an adviser to German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told To Vima in an interview.
The write down, which aims to lower Greece’s debt to 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2020, will have to be greater and shouldn’t be voluntary, Oxford University professor Clemens Fuest told the Athens-based newspaper.
…
Europe Eurozone debt doubts drag euro down The 17-nation currency sank to a more than one-year low against the dollar and hit an 11-year low versus the yen. Last Modified: 05 Jan 2012 23:47
Analysts expect the euro to stay under pressure this year [Reuters]
The euro has sunk to a more than one-year low against the dollar and hit an 11-year low versus the yen amid concerns over Europe’s debt crisis as Italy and Spain came under intense pressure on the markets.
The 17-nation currency fell as low as $1.2775 on Thursday, its weakest level since September 2010.
Spain said it banks would need 50 billion euros, more than first expected, to cover bad loan losses, while Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti rattled nerves with an unannounced visit to Brussels.
Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos’ estimate of the banks’ bad loans was higher than many private forecasts and sat awkwardly with a European Banking Authority finding that Spain’s five biggest banks require 26 billion euros in fresh capital.
Spain’s new right-leaning government meanwhile warned the country’s social security fund’s accounts are worse than had been feared, with a 2011 deficit of 668 million euros ($856 million) instead of a surplus, adding to the problems.
…
China sends warning signals about economic downturn Posted: 01/08/2012 01:00:00 AM MST
By Robert J. Samuelson
contributing editor of Newsweek and The Washington Post and writes about business and economic issues.
WASHINGTON — Even China? Could the world’s economic juggernaut, having grown an average of 10 percent annually for three decades, face a slowdown or what for China would be a recession? Does it have a real estate “bubble” about to pop? What would be the global consequences? Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner visits China and Japan this week. These questions form a backdrop. With Europe’s slump and America’s sluggish economy, a sizable Chinese slowdown would be bad news.
There are warning signs. Economist Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute cites three. First, Europe’s slump has weakened China’s trade; Europe buys about a fifth of its exports. Second, housing is showing signs of a bubble and is deflating. Finally, China’s government will have a harder time deploying a stimulus than during the 2008-09 financial crisis. Government debt rose from 26 percent of gross domestic product in 2007 to 43 percent of GDP in 2010.
How all this affects China’s growth is controversial. “Most likely, China will have a soft landing,” says Justin Yifu Lin, the World Bank’s chief economist. “Growth goes to 8 percent or 8.5 percent.”
…
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — The outlook for the Chinese economy is cloudier than it has been in years, experts said.
The road ahead for China is the “great unanswerable question,” said Lawrence Summers, the former top economic adviser to President Barack Obama, in a speech at the American Economic Association meeting Saturday.
“Whatever you think the range of possible outcomes is [for China] over the next 25 years, it is wider,” Summers said.
Robert Zoellick, the president of the World Bank, said there is widespread recognition that the Chinese growth model, that has been so successful past 30 years, will not work in decades ahead.
…
Well, if your economic well being depends on increasing exports 10% year after year to a bankrupt west, you have a problem. The way things are going they will be lucky if exports don’t drop.
I think Americans do in general. Probably has to do with our relative lack of history.
A European once asked me why Americans are so fixated with “classic cars”. He couldn’t understand why anyone would want to restore and drive such obsolete relics.
New Englanders specifically. They chase some aura of days gone by that only exists in books. It never existed in reality. Typically they are pretentious, Eurotrash driving, sneaker wearing fools neck deep in consumer debt.
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — An Iranian newspaper quotes a senior commander in Iran’s Revolutionary Guard as saying that Tehran’s leadership has decided to order the closure of the strategic Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf if the country’s oil exports are blocked.
Khorasan daily reported Sunday that Ali Ashraf Nouri says the strategic decision has been made by Iran’s top authorities.
Iranian politicians have made the threat in the past, but this is the strongest statement yet that a closure of the strait is official policy.
The U.S. has recently enacted new sanctions targeting Iran’s central bank and its ability to sell petroleum abroad over Tehran’s nuclear program. Washington says Tehran is trying to develop weapons, while Iran denies the charges.
Bratty little boys and their deadly little toys. What business the US thinks it has in dictating internal policy to sovereign Iran I cannot fathom. It’s their democracy and it’s their oil and they want parity because they’re surrounded by crazy people.
Israel is nuclear and belligerent. Pakistan is nuclear and belligerent. There’s spent nuclear fuel and likely deployable nuclear weaponry all over Iraq. And Turkey. Saudis are nuclear and belligerent. There’s civil war in Syria, Libya, and the Chinese taking over Africa and expansionist. Oh and they’re nuclear, too.
This isn’t about containing nukes, it’s about having an excuse to bilk more money from the American taxpayer to finance the executive likes of weapons-mongers at GE, Boeing, Lockheed, KBR and the Pentagon. It’s about controlling other people’s national resources for the benefit of BP, Chevron, Hamsah, and their bloody venal ilk. It’s about degrading entire populations for the benefit of the (very) few.
And the poor guys and gals who sign up for the military believe that they are “a force for good”, spreading freedom around the globe. And of course they believe that we are hated for our rock-n-roll and “freedom”.
I read the book “The Making of a Marine” and one of the things I took away from it was that the military has had thousands of years of experience molding young recruits into what it wants them to be, and this experience was set against the recruit’s experience of a measly eighteen-or-so years.
Putty.
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Comment by combotechie
2012-01-08 13:08:25
In the late Seventies the military was being pared down by President Carter (I believe) and ex-President Nixon said that the paring was being done in the wrong way: The generals were being gotten rid of right along with the rest of the military personell.
This was the wrong thing to do because the generals are the ones who know tactics and strategy and thus they are the ones that are difficult to replace, said Nixon.
“Killers” (as Nixon called them) are easy to replace: Camp Pendleton produces hundreds of killers every month. (As in: Give to the marines an eighteen year old boy for a short while and they will give back to you a killer.)
This remark about killers angered me at the time (an emotion) but as I grew older I began to realize (and rationally accept) the truth of it.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 15:16:05
This remark about killers angered me at the time (an emotion) but as I grew older I began to realize (and rationally accept) the truth of it.
Contrary to the propaganda of “being a force for good”, soldiers are killers. It is what they are trained to do, and for that reason I am wary of them when they return to the civilian world. I don’t see how they can return mentally undamaged from a tour of duty in the middle east.
Comment by combotechie
2012-01-08 16:03:22
“… soldiers are killers …”
Soldiers that have been in combat are killers.
There is a line there somewhere, and once that line has been crossed one cannot go back.
Comment by combotechie
2012-01-08 16:18:18
“I don’t see how they can return mentally undamaged from a tour of duty in the middle east.”
Or from Vietnam. Or Korea. Or from WW2.
Combat soldiers, that is.
The closer one is to the enemy that he kills the more tramatic it is to the killer. Also the trama of having one’s buddies killed weighs heavily.
And nobody that has ever been there can fully understand this. And this makes the survivor feel quite alone, and not able to fit back in with what he left behind.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 17:26:18
Combat soldiers, that is.
Agreed, but it’s worth remembering these days most of the non combat roles have been outsourced to civilians.
Comment by originalbluto
2012-01-08 20:03:55
am a veteran but did NOT experience combat…a book that gave me a sense of it and seemed to ring true was “The Thin Red Line” by James Jones…the author served in the Army in the Pacific during WW2. The middle book of a trilogy that included “From Here to Eternity” and “Whistle” which covered the pre and post war periods and the difficulty combat veterans experienced after the war http://www.amazon.com/Whistle-James-Jones/dp/1453218491/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326077916&sr=1-2
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-01-08 20:11:09
So which one of you has the personal experience, or knows one or more such killers, to back up your assertions.
Azzholes all.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-08 20:44:55
I do. Soldiers are trained to kill without feeling. It is their SOLE purpose.
Comment by ahansen
2012-01-09 01:19:23
Ditto, C.
I do as well, and it ruined every one of them. And while we’re talking trauma, let’s mention the people they killed? Particularly the “collaterally damaged” ones?
I love the last paragraph, they actually believe the same supreme court that gave us citizens united will overturn this shredding of the constitution. Big money has won, they own it all now. The president (both parties) the congress (both parties), the supreme court, and of course the press.
There is a legal (though not a really practical) difference between an Iranian nuke and Pakistani, Israeli and/or Indian nukes. Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has been found in violation of the obligations it took on under that treaty. Pakistan, India and Israel never signed and therefore have no international obligation to not have nukes.
Iran didn’t even bother to do what North Korea (claim it was in the extraordinary circumstances required by the treaty and withdraw) did to get out from under the obligation. I believe Iran still claims to be in full compliance.
So was the US. But that didn’t stop us from giving nuclear technology to the Brits, the French, the Israelis, the Indians, Japan, the Saudis…. Nor does it stop us from offering our implicit nuclear capacity to “friendly” nations.
“… I believe Iran still claims to be in full compliance….”
Perhaps they are. Legally….
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Comment by polly
2012-01-08 19:57:55
The treaty didn’t come into force officially until 1970. The UK and France were already nuclear powers by then. Israel went nuclear in the 60’s and they actually got most of their advanced tech from France, not the US, in the 40’s and 50’s (anything to piss off the Brits who hated the Jewish Palestinians). I kind of doubt they really needed our help once Dimona was going in the 50’s.
And the treaty doesn’t discourage general nuclear technology. Only bombs or stuff tech that is used for making bombs. Japan’s power plants are OK under the treaty. Whether they are OK given their seismic issues is another story altogether.
The audacity of those Iranians! Who in the hell do they think they are living on top of our oil?
We must liberate our resources from these savages. They haven’t invaded another country in over 200 years so that means they must be getting ready for a full frontal assault.
I’ll have to check my latest Koch brothers flyer to verify that though.
TEHRAN: The Iranian government yesterday welcomed a US navy rescue of 13 of its nationals from pirates near the entrance to the Gulf, in a rare respite from months of rising tensions between Tehran and Washington. But one Iranian media outlet, the Fars news agency, which is close to the hardline Revolutionary Guards, dismissed the incident as a suspect “Hollywood movie” meant “to justify the presence of a (US) aircraft carrier in…Gulf waters”.
Sailors are always willing to help others at sea regardless of whose flag is hoisted because all sailors understand that the world’s oceans are merciless.
A Rasmussen Poll last October found that only 37 percent of likely voters believed that America’s best days were ahead. In a Gallup survey, 55 percent of respondents said it was very or somewhat unlikely that today’s youth would enjoy a better life than their parents’.
By Jon Talton
Just as strong winds whip a large flag along a fence line in southern Oregon, turbulent economic times are battering the nation’s and the region’s sense of security. Poverty rates in Washington and 31 other states are up, and more than 300,000 here are unemployed.
ALAN BERNER / THE SEATTLE TIMES
I OVERHEAR many conversations about the economy, but the topper came recently in downtown Seattle.
As two well-dressed men discussed the eurozone crisis and high unemployment at home, one said, “I’ll tell you what I think it is: It’s the beginning of the end of the world.”
The severe recession and its staggering aftermath do represent the end of a world, if not the world. We live in the new hard times.
…
Starting in the 1980s, the masters of the universe on Wall Street engineered waves of mergers. They were money machines for the bankers, lawyers and executives. But many made little economic sense. The result was a highly concentrated economy with many cities losing their corporate crown jewels and best jobs.
Still, times seemed good for most in the 1980s and ’90s, the American promise renewed. Americans enjoyed a cornucopia of inexpensive imported goods. The rise of high-tech sectors gave us the personal computer and a profusion of electronic gadgets to delight and distract. The Microsoft Millionaire seemed to emblematize a new age of aspirations.
Middle-class Americans gained entry into domains once largely those of the rich, from easy credit and ever-larger houses to gourmet foods. If pensions were replaced by risky 401(k)s, many embraced the change: In the long bull market, average folks became investing geniuses.
When the bull market and dot-com run ended, Alan Greenspan’s Fed eased credit and the housing boom began. The now-deregulated and highly concentrated banking industry turned it into the biggest, riskiest speculative bubble in history.
They weren’t alone. Both political parties encouraged the binge. Many bought houses they couldn’t afford. Houses became something to flip, a source of easy riches because, the experts assured us, prices would always go up.
Even with stagnant wages, average Americans kept up appearances. Until the bubble burst.
Consumer spending accounts for two-thirds of the economy, and even as more were falling behind, they kept spending. When two-paycheck families, or even multiple jobs, weren’t enough, they went deeply into debt.
Then came the collapse. Millions were ruined. Not one major figure behind the dodgy schemes or outright swindles on Wall Street was prosecuted. A federal criminal investigation of Kerry Killinger, who built venerable Washington Mutual into a gigantic mortgage mill, was dropped. No one, it seemed, would be held accountable for the nation’s biggest bank failure.
IN THE AFTERMATH, the nation is divided more than it has been at any time since the Civil War. We’re split into haves, have-nots and, increasingly, never-will-haves. Divided politically, even as officials of both parties depend on the corporate and Wall Street elite for campaign funding. Separated by arguments over how to fix the economy and restore the American promise.
…
Farr: The Fed is Creating Moral Hazard Published: Friday, 6 Jan 2012 | 9:42 AM ET
By: Michael K. Farr
Managing Director Farr, Miller & Washington CNBC Contributor
Federal Reserve intervention in the economy has profound implications for not only the prices of goods and services, but also financial assets.
The Fed [cnbc explains] has kept the Fed Funds rate at close to zero for over three years now, with a promise to remain low at least through the middle of next year. As a result, investors across the globe are forced into risky assets that offer better return potential.
This rotation of money into stocks, commodities, high yield bonds, real estate, etc, has lifted the prices of these assets relative to where prices would be otherwise. And higher asset prices have been supportive of our economic recovery.
However, the Fed’s action does not come without risk.
Many economists believe that the Fed’s large-scale monetary policy (to include rate cuts and “Quantitative Easing” [cnbc explains] ) will eventually lead to widespread inflationary pressures across the economy. Others say that forcing investors into risky assets could lead to asset bubbles the likes of which we are very familiar with by now. At the very least, we think the Fed is creating a problem of “moral hazard” which may be difficult to unwind in the future.
Old, anachronistic investors believed that they could, under certain circumstances, lose all of their money when making an investment. But the notion of “caveat emptor” seems to have been lost as the Federal Reserve, Treasury Department, and Congress joined forces to save the financial system. Investors learned that the stock market was far too important to the consumer psyche to let it fall too far. Investors also learned that many companies, and therefore investments in those companies, were simply “too big to fail”.
…
Pure BS - The top 1% own most of these risky assets, thus all the money printing is being concentrated. The FED has done nothing to fix the problem of a broke consumer. Wake me up when the gov starts creating jobs.
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — A growing number of economists, analysts and bond investors think the Federal Reserve will announce another massive bond-purchase plan by the middle of the year, if forecasts for persistently high unemployment and slowing inflation come to fruition.
While a report Friday showed the U.S. unemployment rate fell to 8.5% in December, the job market is not expected to improve quickly enough for Fed policy-makers, who are looking for a much bigger drop in the jobless rate to support solid economic growth.
There’s debate about how such a program from the Fed will work, but the market’s sense is that someone needs to do something, and the U.S. central bank seems to be the only institution in the country willing and able to take steps to support the economy.
Money managers and strategists say the Fed will have enough reasons — domestic sluggishness, lack of action from Congress and the White House,simmering debt problems in Europe — to begin a third round of quantitative easing, dubbed QE3.
“We have an activist Fed that’s chafing under ongoing weakness in the housing market and chronically high unemployment,” said Bill O’Donnell, head of Treasury strategy at RBS Securities. “By the summertime, we’ll be thinking about or even looking at a QE3. It’s reasonable just to do something. It’s very clear that Washington isn’t about to step up with some bipartisan grand plan, and something will need to be done.”
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Wall Street’s biggest banks expect the Federal Reserve‘s 0% interest rates to persist into at least 2014, and see good odds the Fed will provide additional stimulus to the economy in the near term, according to a Federal Reserve Bank of New York survey of primary dealers.
The poll released Wednesday made available the views of dealers given to the Fed ahead of its December Federal Open Market Committee meeting. Last month, as part of a bid for greater openness, the central bank said it would make public both the questions and aggregated results of its dealer surveys.
The U.S. job market is showing signs of a sustained recovery. But the country’s prolonged struggle with unemployment will leave scars that are likely to remain for years, if not generations.
The latest labor-market snapshot, out Friday, gave cause for continued, if tepid, optimism. U.S. employers added 200,000 jobs in December, and the unemployment rate ticked down to 8.5%, its lowest level since early 2009.
But economists gathered here for the American Economic Association’s annual convention took a longer and generally dimmer view. Even if recent progress continues, the recession already has had a lasting effect on a generation of workers. Worse, the crisis has laid bare problems in the U.S. labor market that won’t quickly recover when the economy eventually rebounds. And the longer that unemployment remains high, the greater the risk that it will create structural problems that will endure.
The economists here, mostly academics, are studying the causes and effects of the jobs crisis from different angles, and they frequently disagree. Nonetheless, a few common themes emerge.
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The miserable economy of the seventies and early eighties hobbled my start in life, but I got in some good partying and skydiving; maybe it was a good thing though. I have friends who bolted from high school to college to marriage to children, and now their chance to have that care-free fun is slipping away.
Hey, I have an idea: how about, instead of searching for new, expanded ways to further the role of the federal government in individuals’ and businesses’ private financial lives and deepen the rut that caused and is keeping us in the economic doldrums, we instead think of ways to scale back the federal government’s power and free people, businesses, and banks up to engage in free enterprise and innovation without interference? Anyone? Ugh, these big-government types just never learn! If Bernanke gets his way, the Fed is going to gum up the works of the housing market even more with their uncertainty-creating ‘interventions.’ Easing, schmeasing:
Three Federal Reserve policy makers said the U.S. government should try new ways to spur the housing market without agreeing about how much more the central bank needs to do to bring down interest rates.
New York Fed President William C. Dudley said in New Jersey yesterday that “additional housing policy interventions” can help boost growth, even as the Fed should consider further easing. Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren, speaking in Connecticut, took the more-aggressive position of supporting the purchase of mortgage-backed securities, while Fed Governor Elizabeth Duke said in Virginia that the central bank’s current monetary stance is “appropriate.”
The comments underscore concerns by Fed officials that they may be reaching the limits of their power to boost growth and lower unemployment through three years of near-zero interest rates and unconventional policy tools. Chairman Ben S. Bernanke this week urged lawmakers to do more to revive the housing market, calling it an impediment to the economic recovery. He delivered a 26-page staff report to Congress outlining possible solutions.
Three Federal Reserve policy makers said the US government should try new ways to boost the housing market without agreeing about how much more the central bank needs to do to bring down interest rates.
New York Fed President William C. Dudley said in New Jersey Thursday that “additional housing policy interventions” can help boost growth, even as the US Fed should consider further easing.
Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren, speaking in Connecticut, took a more aggressive position of supporting the purchase of mortgage-backed securities.
Fed Governor Elizabeth Duke said in Virginia that the central bank’s current monetary stance is “appropriate.”
The comments underscore concerns by US Fed officials that they may be reaching the limits of their power to boost growth and lower unemployment through 3 yrs of near-Zero interest rates and unconventional policy tools.
…
For some it is post-traumatic stress from the housing crash, for others it is the inability to get financing to buy a home. Either way, the rental market continues on its tear.
In the last quarter of 2011, the apartment sector saw its largest quarterly increase in occupied stock of the year, according to Reis Inc.
The vacancy rate dropped to 5.2%, the lowest since 2001 and lower than the last cyclical drop in 2006.
This bucks the historical seasonal weakness typical of the colder months of the year. The fourth quarter also tends to be a weaker leasing period, according to Reis, given that most households make moving decisions in the second and third quarters.
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Housing looms as strong voting issue in presidential election Although fixing the sagging economy is the biggest concern for potential voters, four national surveys undertaken by real estate organizations indicate that housing is also a major issue. By Lew Sichelman
January 8, 2012
Reporting from Washington—
At no time in memory has housing been a major issue in a presidential election. Some years, the topic garners hardly more than a passing mention in the planks of either political party.
Right now, housing is not a front-and-center issue for President Obama or any of the Republican presidential hopefuls. But no fewer than four recent national surveys indicate that the issue is a top-of-mind topic among potential voters.
Granted, all four were undertaken by real estate organizations — Realtor.com, HouseLogic, Yahoo Real Estate and Trulia. But the unanimity of their findings underscores just how worried current and future owners are about their homes.
“We were very surprised just how passionate people are” about housing issues, said Julia Reynolds of Move Inc., which operates Realtor.com, the official website of the National Assn. of Realtors.
In the Realtor.com survey, housing was a particularly strong voting issue for “millennials,” also known as the Internet Generation. Millennials were born after 1982, meaning that the oldest will be of prime home-buying age when November rolls around.
On a nearly 3-1 basis, these young voters told the Realtor.com pollsters that what the candidates had to say about housing will be either very or somewhat important to their voting decisions.
In the poll by HouseLogic, a consumer website also operated by the politically powerful Realtors group, housing came in a distant second to jobs as the issue that will have the greatest effect on respondents’ votes in November. But housing ranked way above national security, healthcare, energy or the environment.
Just over half the participants in the Yahoo study want Uncle Sam to do more to help owners who are at risk of losing their homes. A little more than 1 in 4 said the federal government has gone as far as it should to help struggling owners. The rest had no opinion on the matter.
…
The really disheartening thing is the MSM is altogether accepting of the Fed’s and the REIC’s repeated mantra that more, not less, government intervention in the housing market is the only way forward.
Each time the housing market begins to show signs of healing, the Fed freaks out and tries to reflate the bubble again. It is rather like trying to make a dead horse get up and run by beating it. It ain’t gonna run.
The foreclosure crisis that has spread across the country is producing another epidemic: mortgage modification scams that have cost desperate borrowers thousands of dollars — even their homes.
“There are devastating consequences to this fraud,” said Christy Romero, deputy special inspector general who monitors potential fraud in the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).
In early December, Romero’s agency, SIGTARP, joined the U.S. Treasury Department and the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to fight scams targeting homeowners seeking mortgage modifications under the U.S. Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP).
A total of $29.9 billion in TARP funds has been set aside for the federal government’s foreclosure prevention initiatives, including HAMP.
Applying for HAMP is free, as is the loan modification advice of housing counselors approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
You can apply for the government’s Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP) on your own or with free help from a housing counselor approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Yet scam artists have convinced struggling homeowners to pay a fee in return for false promises of lowering their debt or their mortgage payments.
Other swindlers have had homeowners turn over the deeds to their homes, told borrowers to stop making their payments, or insisted they stop dealing with their mortgage servicer.
…
THE authorities have fallen silent lately about a possible settlement over foreclosure abuses at big mortgage servicing companies.
The talks began in earnest last March, and people keep whispering that a deal is nigh. But last week, a spokesman for Shaun Donovan, the secretary of Housing and Urban Development and a lead negotiator, said that there was nothing new to report.
That’s probably not a terrible thing. After all, no deal is better than a bad deal. State and federal authorities jumped into these talks without conducting serious investigations into foreclosure shenanigans. Why strike a deal — one that would, say, shield banks from new litigation over toxic loans, flawed securitizations and the mess at MERS, the registry that has made such a jumble of land records — without knowing what happened?
So it’s nice to know some attorneys general are taking matters into their own hands. One is Martha Coakley of Massachusetts, whose lawsuits against big banks have unearthed important details about dubious mortgage practices.
Another is Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada. She filed a case against Morgan Stanley that was settled last year, generating as much as $40 million in monetary relief for borrowers. She also participated in a suit against Wells Fargo that resulted in $45 million in principal forgiveness for Nevadans. And she has a case pending against Bank of America.
Last month, Ms. Masto sued Lender Processing Services, the huge default and foreclosure processor that works behind the scenes for most large banks. With this case, she demonstrated how enlightening an in-depth study can be. The complaint, which came after a 14-month inquiry, contends that L.P.S. deceived consumers by committing widespread document execution fraud, misrepresenting its fees and making deceptive statements about its efforts to correct paperwork. Investigators interviewed former L.P.S. employees and customers and examined foreclosures the company had worked on.
“L.P.S. played a critical role in the deceptive foreclosure practices that have harmed Nevada homeowners and burdened Nevada courts,” the complaint said. Consumers have paid the price, it continued, “through bankruptcies, evictions and foreclosures that were predicated upon false, forged, fraudulent and/or inaccurate documents.”
…
Government, the mortgage industry and forces of nature all shook the housing market in 2011. They had both an immediate impact and slow-burning effects, setting the stage for a bumpy 2012 with more foreclosures, political battles and local market risks.
…
Reviews aside, it’s been a bad year at the movies. By the time 2011 comes to an end, ticket revenues are expected to be down 4.5% compared to 2010. This is despite today’s higher ticket prices: The average movie admission crossed the $8 mark for the first time ever in 2011.
U.S. consumers are known for embracing dumb movies, even when the economy’s in rough shape. But each year, and in 2011 especially, more and more people seem to give the modern-day movie-going experience a thumbs down review.
…
I can’t understand why anyone would assume the Fed won’t keep interest rates super-low forever. Do other HBB posters find this puzzling?
Portfolio Strategy The U.S. Government Bond Bubble (And What To Do About It)
Treasury bond prices will likely suffer a major decline in the next few years. Here are eight high-yielding stocks that are a smarter alternative for the income part of your portfolio.
By Michael Sivy | @MFSivy | December 27, 2011
The Federal Reserve has pumped a massive amount of money into the U.S. economy since 2008.
America’s finances are deteriorating. The Federal debt has increased by more than 50% over the past three years. New liabilities in 2011 totaled $1.3 trillion. And there is no prospect of a quick fix that would bring this snowballing debt under control. As a result, rating agencies have warned that the U.S. credit rating is at risk of a downgrade.
Nonetheless, U.S. Government bonds have been in a major bull market – some analysts are even calling it a bond bubble. Indeed, just as easy money produced a boom in technology stocks in the late 1990s and a housing bubble six or seven years later, a similar boom-and-bust cycle now appears to be under way for government bonds. Prices of long-term Treasuries are up as much as 30% since early this year. Why have such big gains occurred at a time when the finances of the U.S. government are getting so much worse? There are three reasons:
Extremely stimulative Fed policy. Ever since the banking crisis in 2008, the Federal Reserve has been pumping massive amounts of money into the U.S. economy. As a result, interest rates on 10-year Treasury bonds have dropped from 3.9% in 2010 to around 2% today. And since bond prices rise as interest rates fall, Fed policy alone would be enough to create a bond boom.
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HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — Irate Chinese homeowners are among the top policy concerns for Beijing this year, according to analysts who say weakening house prices are stoking serious tensions.
Financial author and CSLA Singapore managing director Fraser Howie calls it the “real unknown” of 2012, as there’s no track record of how this newly emerged class of homeowners would react if the current softening in residential housing prices turns into a prolonged decline.
“It’s too difficult to analyze what’s going to happen,” he said, citing the difficulty in sourcing accurate statistics on the property market and the short history of property ownership in China.
For the most part, property owners have never had to deal with falling prices since the 1998 policy change that helped what’s now viewed as the launch of the modern era of private-home ownership in China.
City University of Hong Kong political scientist Joseph Cheng agrees, saying that “China’s middle class are not used to business cycles yet.”
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LAS VEGAS — The Occupy Wall Street movement is preparing to take over Las Vegas’ foreclosure-ravaged neighborhoods.
Southern Nevada Occupy leaders said protesters planned to gather at foreclosed homes across the Las Vegas valley on Saturday to urge Wall Street banks to negotiate with mortgage borrowers.
The protesters said that home ownership is a fundamental right.
…
Well maybe 13 year olds beating someone unconscious sets race relations back 50 years and to beat a white girl that savagely over a seat we might as well bring back slavery
I wonder if their parents are on section 8? cant have a felon living in your house and still be eligible.
make it hurt real bad for the parent put you kid in juvie till 18 or make him man up and plead guilty so we can keep a roof over our heads…..
The San Diego housing market serial bottom callers are trying their luck again. So far they have been wrong every time at calling a current year bottom in prices, but maybe this year will be when their luck turns around.
Last week, our U-T EconoMeter panel issued their predictions for 2012. This week we turn to housing. As background, the consensus of eight panelists last year was a slight rise from $335,000 to $336,250 (November medians) and ranged from $300,000 predicted by Marney Cox to $350,000 by Alan Gin, Gary London and Dan Seiver. The actual November 2011 median, as reported by DataQuick, was $315,000.
Get a preview of this year’s predictions, offer your own in our online straw poll and then read all the answers, posting at 6 a.m. Saturday.
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Polls »
Will San Diego median home prices rise in 2012?
Yes
No
Results
Polls »
What will be the median in November 2012? (Current, Nov. 2011, median stands at $315,000.)
Less than $300,000
$300,000-$315,000
$315,001-$330,000
More than $330,000
Only one third of the reader poll respondents agreed with the consensus forecast of the ‘experts’ that San Diego real estate prices will go up this year.
(315/335-1)*100 = -6%, which sounds like a small loss until you apply it against still-bloated San Diego home price levels.
By contrast, notice how the median price level in San Diego dropped by $20K? I guess that is no big deal for rich Californians to lose $20K in a falling knife real estate investment.
Bill Maher must be smashing all the furniture in his place right about now.
Bill Maher Bashes Tim Tebow on Twitter
By Andrew Mindzak, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Dec 28, 12:46 am EST
While most of us were spending time with our families during Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, Bill Maher was busy hate - tweeting against.
After the Denver Broncos were manhandled 40-14 by the Buffalo Bills on Christmas Eve, Maher tweeted, “Wow, Jesus just f**ked #TimTebow bad! And on Xmas Eve! Somewhere … Satan is tebowing, saying to Hitler “Hey, Buffalo’s killing them.” Tebow didn’t exactly have the best game of his career on Saturday against the Bills, completing only 13 of 30 passes for 185 yards along with four interceptions. Tebow tweeted after the game, “Tough game today but what’s most important is being able to celebrate the birth of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Merry Christmas everyone GB2.”
For the record I don`t think Jesus liking Tim Tebow had anything to do with the Broncos winning that game. It probably had a lot more to do with Jesus not liking Ben Roethlisberger.
Am I the only one who is utterly flabbergasted by the Fed’s proposed taxpayer-funded revitalization of the zombie GSEs in yet another housing market rescue attempt? You would think they would have at least waited for the SEC charges against former Fannie and Freddie executives to wash through the MSM before rolling out this proposal.
Economic Beat | SATURDAY, DECEMBER 31, 2011 Suit Points to Fannie, Freddie By GENE EPSTEIN The SEC’s civil charges against six former executives reveals the staggering magnitude of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s mortgage misdeeds.
Talk about ironies. The housing boom-and-bust that brought the 2008-09 recession has prompted cries to punish the guilty, more often from the left wing than from the right. Enter the Securities and Exchange Commission, chaired by the Obama-appointed Mary Schapiro. On Dec. 16, the SEC announced civil indictments against six former executives of two corporations cited mainly by Republicans as the mortgage villains—government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Without necessarily meaning to do so, the SEC has made an authoritative case that the two GSEs did in fact play a key role in financing the high-risk mortgages that fueled the housing bubble. To begin with, the facts and figures posted on the SEC Website are the fruit of that agency’s unique subpoena power. And, more important, Fannie and Freddie have themselves mainly affirmed that the SEC’s factual statements are valid, as part of a “Non-Prosecution Agreement” the agency made with the two mortgage giants.
The SEC is seeking “disgorgement of ill-gotten gains with interest” from the six former Fannie and Freddie executives, based on the allegation that they “caused the federal mortgage firms to materially misstate their holdings of subprime mortgages loans….”
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Simon Johnson, who served as chief economist at the International Monetary Fund in 2007 and 2008, is a professor of entrepreneurship at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management.
The biggest news for the Republican presidential-nomination race last week wasn’t the outcome of the Iowa caucuses but the recess appointment of Richard Cordray to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Unless you think Rick Santorum can scale up in record time to run a national campaign, the Iowa results just confirmed what we already knew: Mitt Romney is likely to face President Barack Obama in November. The Cordray appointment indicates that the president sees things the same way, and has decided to focus the fight on one of Romney’s vulnerabilities: his views on the financial sector.
The president, of course, can’t make an issue out of too- big-to-fail banks because his administration has helped to solidify their grip on the financial system. The 2010 Dodd-Frank financial-reform law effectively failed to limit lenders’ size, freeing the biggest institutions to grow ever larger. Mega-banks will be harder to deal with, both as healthy institutions and if they run into financial trouble.
Fortunately for Obama, it doesn’t appear that Romney has any objection to “anything goes” in terms of bank size, and isn’t likely to try to make too-big-to-fail an election issue.
Obama will also be reluctant to raise the matter of campaign contributions by bank executives and the political influence that gives them. Both he and Romney are likely to garner roughly equal amounts of cash from the people who run, or benefit from, large financial companies.
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CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — More bond purchases, otherwise known as quantitative easing, are not likely at least in the short term because the economy seems on more solid ground, St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank President James Bullard said Saturday.
“I don’t think it [QE] is very likely right now because the tone of the data has been very strong right now,” Bullard told reporters after a speech at the American Economic Association meeting.
“We already have an easy policy, and the economy is improving, and so we can probably wait and see for now,” Bullard said.
Bullard said he was encouraged by the December employment report that showed a drop in the unemployment rate to near a three-year low of 8.5%.
“I thought the jobs report was encouraging. Hopefully it is harbinger of more robust activity,” he said.
Bullard said he thinks Wall Street is too gloomy about the outlook.
“I think forecasters are a bit too pessimistic about the U.S. economy,” he said. “The recession has been over for fair amount of time. It is a logical point in the recovery where you would expect somewhat more rapid growth and somewhat better jobs market, so we’ll see if that is what happens.”
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Which of these 1832 sq ft 4br/3ba San Diego homes do you think will sell the fastest? (Note they are identical floor plans, walking distance apart, in the same neighborhood.)
It looks like the last time the Lofty Trails home was snapped up at a foreclosure auction, in 1992, it took five years for the flipper to sell it, and he barely made a dime in capital gains.
Maybe this time is different?
P.S. Wifey sez the Silver Buckle home has been on the market for a lot longer than 2 days — at least since last spring. I guess pricing $86K above the comps hasn’t worked for them, just yet.
$432,900
15741 Lofty Trail Dr Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127
Beds: 4
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.: 1,832 $/Sq. Ft.: $236
Lot Size: 4,922 Sq. Ft.
Property Type: Residential, Detached
Style: Contemporary
Stories: 2
View: Mountains/Hills
Year Built: 1988
Community: High Country West
County: San Diego
MLS#: 110060748
Source: SANDICOR
Status: Active
Active
This listing is for sale and the sellers are accepting offers.
On Redfin: 67 days
Property History for 15741 Lofty Trail Dr
Date Event Price Appreciation Source Jan 07, 2012 Price Changed $432,900 – SANDICOR #110060748
Dec 03, 2011 Price Changed $447,900 – SANDICOR #110060748
Nov 02, 2011 Listed (Active) $459,000 – SANDICOR #110060748 Oct 27, 2011 Sold (Public Records)
This home was sold at a foreclosure
Foreclosure auction. $393,053 – Public Records
Jul 23, 2007 Sold (Public Records) $554,000 9.4%/yr Public Records
Feb 24, 2000 Sold (Public Records) $284,000 14.1%/yr Public Records Jun 05, 1997 Sold (Public Records) $198,500 0.1%/yr Public Records
Jul 31, 1992 Sold (Public Records) Abnormal Transaction . $197,500 -100.0%/yr Public Records
Jul 31, 1992 Sold (Public Records) $220,000 -0.6%/yr Public Records
Jun 26, 1989 Sold (Public Records) $224,000 32.2%/yr Public Records
Mar 31, 1988 Sold (Public Records) $158,500 – Public Records
— $519,000
11280 Silver Buckle Way San Diego, CA 92127
Beds: 4
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.: 1,832 $/Sq. Ft.: $283
Lot Size: 4,100 Sq. Ft.
Property Type: Residential, Detached
Stories: 2
Year Built: 1987
Community: High Country West
County: San Diego
MLS#: 120001127
Source: SANDICOR
Status: Active
Active
This listing is for sale and the sellers are accepting offers.
On Redfin: 2 days
Property History for 11280 Silver Buckle Way
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jan 06, 2012 Listed (Active) $519,000 – SANDICOR #120001127
Aug 19, 2003 Sold (Public Records) $475,000 12.9%/yr Public Records
May 31, 1996 Sold (Public Records) $197,500 – Public Records
It amazes me the value of these two near-identical properties could have diverged so much since 1996-1997, when they both sold at almost the same price at the last time the San Diego real estate market bottomed out which, in turn, was 5-6 years after the end of the 1990-1991 recession.
$432,900
Property History for 15741 Lofty Trail Dr
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jun 05, 1997 Sold (Public Records) $198,500 0.1%/yr Public Records
…………………………………………………………………. $519,000
11280 Silver Buckle Way San Diego, CA 92127
May 31, 1996 Sold (Public Records) $197,500 – Public Records
—————————————————————————-
P.S. Homes like these were selling for $540,000 or so back in 2004.
I’ve been contemplating the political ramifications of this Fed gambit. I suspect it is a CYA measure, designed to obscure the origins of the housing bubble in Alan Greenspan’s policies back in the early 2000s and before. J6P doesn’t grasp the long and variable lags which precede the impact of Fed policy actions, and hence is apt to interpret the present housing situation as due to recent policy measures.
If Congress and the executive branch ignore the Fed’s suggestions, the Fed can blame ongoing problems in the housing market on a failure to adopt their present recommendations, rather than due to loose monetary policy a decade ago which led to bubble formation. And if their measures are adopted, Wall Street will succeed to dump their housing market gambling losses on the U.S. tax base, greatly indebting Wall Street to the Fed.
ft dot com
January 8, 2012 10:52 pm
Calls for US taxpayers to bear housing costs
By Shahien Nasiripour in Washington
US Federal Reserve policymakers are increasingly urging fiscal authorities to consider reducing distressed borrowers’ loan balances, a politically fraught position for a central bank that has long sought to distance itself from fiscal policy.
William Dudley, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, said on Friday that taxpayers and mortgage bond investors should shoulder the cost of reducing borrowers’ loan principal. Sarah Bloom Raskin, a member of the Fed’s board of governors, added on Saturday that forcing leading banks to cut mortgage principal as a penalty for poor practices was an option “that should stay on the table”.
The calls come as the Fed confronts dwindling options to jumpstart a weak US economic recovery that appears to be stalling because of problems in the nation’s property market. Home prices are falling, property seizures are rising, lending and refinancing remain subdued and delinquencies have barely budged more than two years after the recovery officially began in the summer of 2009.
“Housing markets have shown little sign of improvement so far in this recovery,” Elizabeth Duke, one of the Fed’s five sitting governors, said last week. “This stands in sharp contrast to the important role that the housing sector has typically played in propelling economic recoveries.”
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Name:Ben Jones Location:Northern Arizona, United States To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
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We’ve been touring rental houses again lately. We’ve yet to see one that was charging enough to cover a mortgage for the last sale price, even at current mortgage rates.
One poor owner told us that her, her husband, and her four children were all moving back in with his parents because they couldn’t afford the house anymore. He was a cabinet installer (oddly, the kitchen cabinets were old and awful). According to her they were renting it out for $600/month less than the mortgage payment. How that was going to “help” them I have no idea. I figure it will be in foreclosure within the next 6 months and I didn’t want to deal with that.
The landlords we spoke to were desperate to get us to fill out an application. Each and every one said most applications were from groups of 4-5 roommates or from people who had horrible credit. I’m sure we could get a good deal on one if we find one we like.
Meanwhile, our current rental house is falling apart. We’re still paying less in rent than the mortgage. We know that for sure because the house was purchased just before we moved in. The foundation was washing out. They got a quote for repair that was over $30,000. Instead they’ve filled in some holes and piled up dirt to temporarily stop water from running under the house. Most of the exterior wood is rotten. Now we’ve found termites and they exterminator said the house will need to be tented. They said because of the unusual shape of the house it will require bringing in a crane and will cost a large sum of money.
Glad to still be a renter…
“According to her they were renting it out for $600/month less than the mortgage payment. How that was going to “help” them I have no idea.”
When you are not paying the mortgage while you are collecting rent, it leaves you a little wiggle room.
Or having the rent cover half to 2/3’s of the mortgage while you live for free in mom’s basement is better than paying the whole thing yourself. Not everyone is a deadbeat, jeff. They may stop paying later, but not everyone with a bad deal has already stopped paying.
I’m afraid they actually have. Those left still paying are looked upon as real suckers.
Needless to say, there will be no housing market recovery until this situation has reversed. Given the prevalence of deadbeat owners, we are talking about a period of years for this reversal to play out.
OK, Liz. Show me the study. Where are you getting your “facts”? I said “not everyone” so all I need is to have personal knowledge of one person fully paying on an underwater house/condo to prove my point. You need a lot more than that.
For some reason there are folks who want to believe that practically everyone who is underwater has stopped paying the mortgage and has been living rent free for years. Usually this belief is based on anecdotal evidence from their neck of the woods.
I have one friend who is seriously underwater and is still paying. I know the numbers.
Everyone I know who is underwater is still paying. Every single one. And like I said, I only have to have one example for my statement to be true. I’m waiting for someone to provide numbers to prove that even a majority of people who are underwater have stopped paying.
I don’t claim to know lots of underwater homeowners, but the ones I do know are also continuing to make payments. My guess is that even though the number of underwater homeowners who stopped making payments is doubtless historically large, the majority of underwater borrowers, and particularly those with the means to do so, continue to honor the contracts they signed.
OK, I’m going to take a portion of my statement back. I am reminded that I have at least two relatives that the family grapevine says are probably going to get foreclosed on, so they must have stopped paying at some point. But I haven’t talked to either one in over two decades (I have lots of nice relatives, I don’t need to hang out with the unpleasant ones), so I’m not sure that I really “know” them anymore. I am, however, aware of them.
All the underwater people I actually spend time with are just paying. Some are waiting (uselessly in my opinion) for prices to rise so they can sell and others are just paying because they like their house and want to keep it.
I guess polly knows more suckers than I do. Give them some more time…
There is “underwater” and there is “underwater.” If you are out $100k, it would not be wise to keep paying.
There it is. Rental rates are half the monthly cost associated with ownership.
It’s time to tell the truth about rents. Rents are NOT rising when measured in price/sq ft.
There it is. Rental rates are half the monthly cost associated with ownership.
More like only a third.
These landlords are just worried about the monthly P/I nut. Nothing yet on taxes, upkeep, insurance, etc.
“Nothing yet on taxes, upkeep, insurance, etc.”
It’s a PITI to learn how bad members of the accidental landlord brigade were at figuring out how well their investments would pencil out.
I suspect that is many (too many) cases landlords are figuring their ROI based on the small downpayments. Look at some of the other websites where investors are figuring a 7-10% yield on putting down a 3% pittance downpayment, expecting that the monthly rentals will cover the payments and they’ll have a free house at the end of the loan period.
In every single case I’ve seen, mathematically they are figuring best case assumptions and in reality a single month of vacancy in a year will push them into a breakeven or loss position for the year. Any significant repairs will force them to lose money for years. They don’t want to hear that though.
Stay on ‘em 2Banana. here….. all over the net.
‘According to her they were renting it out for $600/month less than the mortgage payment. How that was going to “help” them I have no idea.’
Maybe they plan to rent it out for whatever they can get and keep paying the mortgage until prices again return to 2006 levels?
Maybe they plan to rent it out for whatever they can get and keep paying the mortgage until prices again return to 2006 levels?
That would be my assumption. Should be any day now…
Or maybe they think this downturn is just a tempoary dip (as all other downturns during their lifetimes have been temporary dips) and all they need to do to be made whole again is to ride it out.
Isn’t temporary what the Fed is busily trying to convince everybody this dip is?
Fed’s Dudley Calls for Government Action to Revive Housing
By Scott Lanman and Cheyenne Hopkins - Jan 6, 2012 7:06 AM
Federal Reserve Bank of New York President William Dudley called on the U.S. government to try new programs to revive the housing market while saying the central bank may still consider ways to cut interest rates.
“Implementing such policies would improve the economic outlook and make monetary accommodation more effective,” Dudley said today in a speech to bankers in Iselin, New Jersey. At the same time, it’s “appropriate” for the Fed to consider steps to ease monetary policy, he said.
…
Instant classic.
We could be spending 200% of tax receipts and it wouldn’t be enough for some people.
A lot of people still believe that we will “bounce back” soon and that the EZ money will flow once again. Many still believe that housing can reignite the economy. It’s not surprising as so many benefited from the bubble: construction workers (both skilled and illegal) realtors, mortgage peddlers, movers, furniture stores. Even the car dealers.One thing I have noticed out here is that the local dealers (the ones who didn’t fold after the bust) carry tiny inventories these days. I remember when the local Ford dealer had a virtual armada of pickups on its lot and you’d see hordes of brand new trucks, with the ubiquitous new car tags on them, cruising around town.
So yeah, everyone just want things to go back to the way they used to be, not wanting to understand that it can’t.
“So yeah, everyone just want things to go back to the way they used to be, not wanting to understand that they can’t.”
And Times should get very Interesting once everyone who doesn’t want to understand that they can’t are forced to understand that they can’t.
Yes, it’s a bad time for many businesses and their employees.
My personal experience was tough. I worked for many years with Architectural/Engineering firms as a designer, but saw no way to really move up into better opportunities working for small/midsize firms.
My lucky break came in 2001 when a manufacturing company specializing is structural products was looking for an engineering manager here in Florida. I applied and got the job at a company that had been in business 35 years locally and more than 40 from the National chain that took over our facility. It looked great. I found a steady, reliable business, with good pay and benefits and a chance to work my way up in a much bigger company.
In 2002, business picked up more, going into 2003, I got raises and more staff, as business began to pick up.
Then construction took off in housing…..2004-2007 record sales and expansion…Huge increases in volume. The sky was the limit. Massive sales volumes……Then the downhill slide started.
Backwardization. Layoffs started and continued into the end of 2009 when I got booted, too.
All I wanted was a STEADY job, with a reliable company that had been in business for decades. It lasted just over 8 years.
Instead of a steady “growth” of business, we experienced a huge bubble, lots of new employees, and expansion, followed by collapse. We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.
The company had expanded 100% of employees in the last 3 years. When it was over, there were about 20% of the original number before the boom. The BUST did not take us back to the pre-boom days. If so, I would still be working.
Instead, it completely wiped out the business viability of a steady business operation…
So, yes, you are correct, it’s not going back to where it was.
That company has never expanded to a fraction of where they were when I started in 2001. Where’s the growth?
Can’t happen.
“We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.”
On today’s other thread, Ben posted an article suggesting that Greenspan deliberately inflated the housing bubble to offset other factors that were dragging down the economy. Has the Fed yet bothered to assess whether this policy was effective?
I didn’t read the article, however, I have to agree with the conclusion. I think Greenspan
deliberately lowered rates and encouraged
the housing boom to off set the decline from
the dot com crash. Considering this is not a housing bust but a credit bust, he brought forward by a decade the crash that would have happened anyway, just later.
All I wanted was a STEADY job, with a reliable company that had been in business for decades. It lasted just over 8 years.
Instead of a steady “growth” of business, we experienced a huge bubble, lots of new employees, and expansion, followed by collapse. We collectively built 10 years worth of housing in 3. Malinvestment. Then, poof.
Diogenes, I recall your discussion years ago that the company’s management were seated for a discussion regarding further expansion plans near the top of the bubble, and that you were the lone dissenting voice. Sounds like previous success (this ship can’t sink!) clouded the obvious construction bubble.
Sounds like previous success (this ship can’t sink!) clouded the obvious construction bubble.
It’s always more tempting to believe that success comes from one’s genius as opposed to luck.
He was a cabinet installer (oddly, the kitchen cabinets were old and awful).
+1 The shoemaker’s kids are barefoot.
Combo,
Loving your documentary link. I’m watching one on swarms, about how information is exchanged when large groups gather
trying to extrapolate to the human condition…. Thanks for posting.
You’re welcome. Enjoy.
I would like to thank Moman for putting this into words.
Hell hath no fury like a Deadbeat LL who hasn`t made a mortgage payment in over a year when the rent check is 2 days late.
Comment by Moman
2012-01-07 22:20:33
“Reminds me of my situation. Paid $1100/mo faithfully for years, after 1.5 years of no contact and them not replying to emails I didn’t pay one month as I didn’t even know if they still owned the place. Wasn’t but a couple days later that hell hath no fury than a deadbeat LL who doesn’t honor her contracts, but gives me hell for not honoring mine, threatening to trash my credit (good luck, they had a fake SSN & BDay), giving me lines like they have been so gracious to let me rent under market rates for years, that it’s not their fault they weren’t able to flip the condo and are now being sued, etc.”
So? Just remind them that they would have a heck of a time finding someone else to rent it at any price given that a few seconds of research would show any future tenant that the mortgage is being paid. No further details. Let them imagine that a record of them not paying is somehow the top search result even if it isn’t.
There is a lot of entertainment value in that.
Plus most “standard” leases include a grace period for rent. Cite the section and hang up.
“Just remind them that they would have a heck of a time finding someone else to rent it at any price given that a few seconds of research would show any future tenant that the mortgage is being paid.”
If you meant show them the mortgage is not being paid, to the best of my knowledge that is not always true. The last place I rented did not have any public record of LP being filed even though they did not pay the mortgage for close to 3 years. The only way I knew was from the inspectors that came around every couple of moths.
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/10/2005 15:26:02
CFN: 20050503883
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 19062/448
Pages: 21
Consideration: $276,000.00
Party 1: SARRO JAMES
SARRO NANCY
Party 2: WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK FA
Legal: JUPITER LNDG L119 L
And then nothing until the short sale in 2010
Type: D
Date/Time: 3/24/2010 15:59:53
CFN: 20100111175
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 23759/443
Pages: 2
Consideration: $150,000.00
Party 1: SARRO JAMES
SARRO NANCY
Party 2: MARRIOTT BRENT L
MARRIOTT BRANDY A
Legal: JUPITER LNDG L119 L
Where I am now a LP was filed on Type: LP
Date/Time: 5/5/2010 08:12:01
and my wife and I were listed as tennants on the Notice of voluntary dismissal when they somehow got a workout from WELLS FARGO BANK NA
Type: NOT
Date/Time: 11/5/2010 09:06:10
CFN: 20100421103
Since then they have again stopped paying the mortgage but I wouldn`t know it if I had not opened a letter to the LL that came here 5 months ago saying they were 3 months behind and if they did not pay in full it would be accelerated. Since then the Wells inspectors have been by 3 times (the latest last week) but there is no record that I can find that says they are currently late at all.
That is what I said. Let them think the information is easily available even if it isn’t. The original poster had actual knowledge the mortgage hadn’t been paid.
Obviously, you can’t play this game if you think the mortgage is being paid. Or you can, but you are guaranteed to lose.
Personally, jeff, I think you should get out of that house because you spend way too much of your time obsessing about how your situation isn’t fair. It seems to gnaw at you in a way that is not healthy. Paying more to rent another house with a paying (or fully paid) owner would be much better for your mental health.
“Paying more to rent another house with a paying (or fully paid) owner would be much better for your mental health.”
How would that change the fact that ALL the rents in decent neighborhoods (at least where I live, maybe not in Clorado) are artificially inflated? But as far as….
“It seems to gnaw at you in a way that is not healthy”
I am sure that is true. I know many people like the ones I posted about before Christmas that my kids played ball with who have lived in a really nice house, took out a huge chink of “equity” and they have not made a mortgage payment in 4 years and yet still live there. They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.
You know Polly is right, this is not healthy to let this gnaw at me. RAL is right too, “I am a POB”.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now
Seinfeld - Serenity Now Montage - YouTube
15 Mar 2007 … A collection of clips from the hilarious Seinfeld episode “Serenity Now” … Kramer Gets Lost Downtownby redxiii0101 16154 views · Thumbnail …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4 - 124k - Cached - Similar pages
“..and YES it pisses me off.”
Fear not my brother, you are not alone. This debacle pisses me off too.
Remember the brief conversation we had yesterday about not giving your kids things they will not be able to provide for themselves later (other than education). Your kids are not necessarily worse off for not having the things that you aren’t buying for them. Living within (even better under) your means is a great lesson for kids. Teaching him or her to want a life that includes all the stuff you can collect while not paying rent or a mortgage is a terrible thing for a parent to do to a child.
“Serenity now…sanity later.”
Schweet!!!
polly
Don`t you get tired of being right?
Don`t you get tired of being right?
polly is very sensible and smart, so she is right a lot.
I concur with her that your frequent bitterness about your living situation cannot be healthy for you.
Life is fundamentally unfair; if you focus on that too much, it can eat you up from the inside. Accept, and make the best of your situation—that would be my advice.
“Don`t you get tired of being right?”
Thank Heavens for people like Polly who are very sensible and almost always right, too. (I myself am married to one.
)
I hit my “it’s not fair” stage around 9 or 10. It was in full swing by 11. My mother’s constant rejoinder was, “Who promised you life was going to be fair?” I think I finally got it - really got it - about 12 years later. So, it isn’t a quick lesson, but it is worth learning.
‘My mother’s constant rejoinder was, “Who promised you life was going to be fair?”’
Though my wife and I are far from being the perfect parents, we at least have had the good sense to preach this message to our kids early and often.
“I hit my “it’s not fair” stage around 9 or 10″
I have also known life is not fair since I was a kid, however I am hitting my “totally corrupt” stage at 52.
“Serenity now…sanity later.”
Actually it`s….
“Serenity now, insanity later.”
I know many people like the ones I posted about before Christmas that my kids played ball with who have lived in a really nice house, took out a huge chink of “equity” and they have not made a mortgage payment in 4 years and yet still live there. They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.
And when the lenders decide that the “free rent” era is over these people will be kicked out of the houses, have no credit and will probably be dogged by by their creditors coming after them with deficiency judgements. Their kids will become accustomed to living in cramped apartments with shady characters as their neighbors and the spending sprees will be a thing of the past.
Even if they are buying nice toys today I wouldn’t trade places with them for a second.
Or is it better stated, “Serenity now, insanity now“?
I still haven’t got that.
If life isn’t fair, then why bring kids into it?
If life isn’t fair, then WHY THE HELL AREN’T WE FIXING IT?
“They have been able to give their kids MANY things that I have not been able to give mine and YES it pisses me off.”
Yeah I’m with you Jethro. When it comes to our own offspring, all bets are off. I *think* I know exactly what you’re experiencing and my extreme bout with this occurred during the bubble years when we all were made to feel like losers for renting or whatever your situation was/is. *WE* are better people because of it but let’s this not detract from the sense of injustice it was and still is. There is no answer but I do share your sense of outrage and I think your personal experience reflects what is happening on the ground in your area as Colorado previously mentioned.
I’ll say that nothing will change without your rage. Directed it at the Housing Crime Syndicate. JMHO and advice.
Polly,
Agreed but that wouldn’t have worked. They actually sent me an appropriate, legal lease termination notice between the crossed communications, because they wanted me out, so I wouldn’t be called to testify in their foreclosure suit that I had been paying rent and they were pocketing it. There was an element of fraud going on as well between them, and in such as I didn’t want to lawyer up, I agreed to leave peacefully.
Leave peacefully and be sure to contact the bank that will be doing the foreclosure so they know how to contact you to testify (or at least be deposed about) your payments if you like. Not that the fact that you were making payments matters in the least - it doesn’t or at least shouldn’t. But if they kick you out to keep you from telling the truth about them, then you can certainly find a way to still be able to do it.
Revenge isn’t a noble pursuit, but it isn’t entirely useless when all you have to do to get it is make yourself available to say something true. And it IS better served cold.
You’re welcome Jeff, and I hope that one day she and her minions will get theirs. Maybe for kicks one day I will post the email the landlord sent me.
So banks loan money that does not exist and get paid back with money that does exist. Deadbeats live in houses that do exist that were bought with borrowed money that did not exist in hopes of selling them to a bigger fool that never will exist. Renters pay LLs that do exist with money that does exist for dwellings that also exist even if the LL is not paying the mortgage that does exist which was borrowed from a money supply that did not exist because until the dwelling is foreclosed the Deadbeat LLs property rights still exist. All of this to keep dwelling prices up because if they dropped the Too Big to Fail balance sheets would reveal the fact that they loaned a lot of money that never existed?
My head hurts, I am going to cut my Deadbeat LLs lawn now and probably watch the 1PM playoff game.
So banks loan money that does not exist and get paid back with money that does exist. Deadbeats live in houses that do exist that were bought with borrowed money that did not exist in hopes of selling them to a bigger fool that never will exist.
When you put it that way it sounds like a problem.
And when the banks do not get paid back the money that doesn’t exist then their balance sheets need to somehow officially relflect this nonexistence.
And if enough monetary nonexistence is officially recognized then the balance of the balance sheet doesn’t exist which means the bank shouldn’t exist.
So the solution to the problem boils down to the availability of money that really does exist.
Money as in cash money; The stuff one uses to buy things with.
“Money as in cash money; The stuff one uses to buy things with.”
As in the cash money that Deadbeats have because they don`t send their cash money that does exist to pay back the loans that they were given in money that did not exist.
And this will continue to work until it doesn’t.
And it will eventually no longer continue to work. At that point, it will be safe to assume that we are nearing a housing bottom.
Yes, but NONE of the money actually exists, since they are ALL federal reserve NOTES: i.e. debts.
Realtors Are Liars®
I was lied to by a Realtor yesterday! Went to look at a brand new house in Jupiter Fl., pretty nice little 1800 sq. ft. CBS house and it has been on the market for 120 days In an area that could have gone either way. It was listed at $199k and the Realtor suggested I offer $170k and at that I would have done well. There were only 3 other houses on the street so I stayed a few minutes after the Realtor left and talked to the neighbor right next door. The really great thing about stealing this house at $170k would be the in I would have being able to join a gang from knowing my new neighbor! And what the heck if I didn`t want to join the gang my kids would have ample oppurtunity to do so with what would be our newly found gang member neighbor.
sarcasm on
What a bargain Jeff! One would think that you should pay $250,000 to live next door to a gang banger but it would only cost $170,000!
/sarcasm off
Why are reaItors Iying to buyers?
Jeff,
A good buddy from Texas said to me, after visiting this fine state in which I presently reside, “ya’ll need to retreat and regroup”.
Sounds like it may apply to your state as well.
That`s one of the funny things about this area. Where I grew up there was a gradual transformation from neighborhoods where one wouldn`t feel safe to neighborhoods where one would feel safe. Down here it can be the other side of an 8 foot privacy wall around a community.
I was lied to by a Realtor yesterday!
Happens every day!
Mitt Romney has “embraced” the neo-con King-makers, and they, he. Fawning adulation in the MSM to follow.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/01/2012188243939594.html
The campaign funds from the plutocrats are already flowing.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?cycle=2012&id=N00000286
Mitt said he was putting his money into his campaign so he wouldn’t be beholden to special interests.
That’s why I’m all in for Mitt. A man for the people!
ROMNEY 2012!
Mitt Romney IS a neo-con king maker.
He made his fortune as a corporate raider.
Don’t ever forget this.
Please continue pushing the meme (especially to younger voters) that Mitt Romney is just like the guy who laid off your father
RETIREMENT PLANNING
JANUARY 8, 2012
Don’t Let Your Grown Kids Ruin Your Future
By RUTHIE ACKERMAN
It’s the Boomer Boomerang.
Baby boomers, who were notorious for prolonging their own adolescences well into their 20s and beyond (”Seinfeld,” anyone?), are feeling the financial sting now that their own offspring have their hands out.
The problem has only grown since the financial crisis, the official recession and the economic doldrums that have swamped the country.
The crux of the matter: The kids are out of work, out of money and maxed out.
But so are Mom and Dad, who have seen their own retirement nest eggs cracked, their retirement incomes shrunk and even the value of their nests—the family home—fall.
And despite those woes, financial advisers are seeing a trend in boomer parents supporting their children, even when it means they are taking away from their own retirement security.
Will Ellis, a financial adviser in La Grange, Ga., tells the story of a 60-something couple driven to the brink of insolvency by their 30-year-old daughter’s profligacy.
A real-estate agent during the housing boom, she racked up $850,000 in debt (including on her house, her car and her second home) before the recession hit and her income was slashed by over 80%.
Lucky for her, Mom and Dad were willing to help out—so much that Mr. Ellis figured they would themselves have gone broke in little more than a decade.
“How much are you willing to sacrifice?” Mr. Ellis recalls asking the retired couple. “Are you willing to give up your own needs?”
Mr. Ellis’s clients made the tough, and right, call. They cut off their daughter.
…
Wow. You ain’t kidding! My nephew turns 36 this year, worked one year in his life, still lives with his mom (my sister). My niece is in her late 20s and also lives with my sister. At least my niece is in college. My sister only worked for eleven years. She’s in her late 50s. So she will get little in Social Security.
They don’t know my income nor my net worth. I need to party like there is no tomorrow. At least I would want them to believe that.
My dad had the work ethic and it’s ingrained into us. That sister works six or seven days a week. But she does not make much money. If she worked in her field she got her bachelor’s degree in, she could be earning three or four times what she’s making now.
The other siblings and I don’t like to talk about the crisis that will develop when that sister’s obesity catches up with her and what would her adult children do?
It’s all a matter of personal choice. We gave up long ago giving them advice. It kept falling on deaf ears.
Maybe I should buy two Mustang 5.0 litre GTs. For myself.
Bill:
This becomes very scary when thinking of transferring the house to the kids. That 850K debt becomes a real nightmare to the parents if she owned her parents house and had to file BK
The funny thing is the 30-something gal probably made no more than a middle class income but was one of those who think they could become like Robert Kiyosaki or Donald Trump. Essentially, since Trump has gone bankrupt a few times I think she achieved such a goal.
Oops - yeah the gal was a realtard. That explains. Easy money by shilling to victims.
“Essentially, since Trump has gone bankrupt a few times I think she achieved such a goal.”
Not really; apparently Trump had the good sense to grow his financial speculation activities to a level where he was too-big-to-fail in the eyes of his bankers. $850K in personal debt isn’t going to cut it.
Bila,
Yes. Please buy yourself something you love and start enjoying it. Travel. Rent an amusing lady companion. Anything. Of all the tragedies here on the blog, yours is the most poignant and self-inflicted. LIVE!
I have started to tell myself this too. Just had a week in Hawaii and I’m thinking of spending a week in a New England state in late June (if I can rent a mountain bike there).
Consulting forces me to not own much material possessions. A house that will be empty 320 days per year. A new car sitting at my home state’s address.
However most of you people here say we are living in very tough economic times and if you have a job and are earning money you are lucky. So that is the contradiction. To “live it up” in times of high unemployment is dangerous.
Conspicuous consumption may be or get dangerous. There are plenty of ways to enjoy the fruits of your labor that don’t have to be conspicuous.
Agreed. Vacations are the way. I can still wear average clothes, drive an average car, drink a good beer, and not appear moneyed, whereas by blowing it on a guarded gated house in Paradise Valley I’d be armed and patrolling my estate constantly.
“and not appear moneyed,”
wow Bill…. you’ve outdone your own delusions once again.
Stunning.
Pssst, RAL, it was satire.
oops. I see that now. RAL is wrong.
Come visit Colorado and summit a 14er, you’re not living until you have…
This reminds me of Aesops “The Miser and his Gold”:
A miser sold all that he had and bought a lump of gold, which he buried in a hole in the ground by the side of an old wall and went to look at daily. One of his workmen observed his frequent visits to the spot and decided to watch his movements. He soon discovered the secret of the hidden treasure, and digging down, came to the lump of gold, and stole it. The Miser, on his next visit, found the hole empty and began to tear his hair and to make loud lamentations. A neighbor, seeing him overcome with grief and learning the cause, said, “Pray do not grieve so; but go and take a stone, and place it in the hole, and fancy that the gold is still lying there. It will do you quite the same service; for when the gold was there, you had it not, as you did not make the slightest use of it.”
I am starting to “live” eg spend more. I am in mid fities with lots of savings. The finacial meltdown really spooked me. All that money could be taxed and / or inflated away. I just bought a new sofa and bed. It was really hard for me to do that. But anytime I’have spent money on myself have never regreted it.
Rent an amusing lady companion.
Wow, Allena—are you really in favor of free-markets in companionship, or was that tongue-in-cheek?
Whatever works for consenting parties is fine by me. Sometimes it’s best to just be honest about the whole process– saves a lot of thwarted ideation and heartache.
The difference between a mistress and a prostitute is that you pay the prostitute to go away. A wife (of either gender,) you just pay.
“The difference between a mistress and a prostitute is that you pay the prostitute to go away.”
“Rent an amusing lady companion.”
Here is a suggestion:
Business
Sci-Fi Brothel to Open in Nevada
An infamous entrepreneur plans to open the Alien Cathouse, located 90 miles from Las Vegas.
By Melissa Locker | @woolyknickers | January 1, 2012
Hey gents, have you ever found yourself jealous of Captain James T. Kirk and his, …er intergalactic conquests? Do you longingly watch Jabba the Hutt’s dancing slave (her name is Oola, if you’re interested) and wonder, what if? Do you long to go where no man has gone before? Well, once a new sci-fi brothel opens in Nevada, you can.
…
My nephew turns 36 this year, worked one year in his life, still lives with his mom (my sister).
Every parent’s fear.
I remember my sister saying she just wants all her family together. So again, this is her choice. On her meager income she has two extra mouths to feed, more clothes to launder (I doubt if her adult kids do their own laundry). She does not even have a car anymore. I figure she ran her old van into the ground because she could not afford the maintenance.
Such poverty is self-imposed. And there are no drugs involved. I guess I should also add that my 30-something nephew who worked one year in his life claims to be a Republican conservative! No wonder I’m a libertarian!
“…Every parent’s fear….”
Not mine, certainly. I’d LOVE to have my son living with me when I’m decrepit. So would his father. He’s a great person, and so are his friends. They’re all welcome here on the ranch. Of course, they all know that I’m going to make them get their hands dirty while they’re around.
I cannot understand how someone could bear, nurture, love a person for eighteen years and then just wish them away. What’s the point in the first place?
I cannot understand how someone could bear, nurture, love a person for eighteen years and then just wish them away. What’s the point in the first place?
It’s an American “family value”. One that perplexes foreigners and makes them wary of us.
Perhaps it’s because (once again) America is relatively the “new world” and survival meant knowing how to be on your own.
As for “making them work,” I hope that is all a voluntary thing. I wrote on another thread on some blog that there is too big of an alarm/panic about the childless boomers “not having someone to care for them as they get older.” I think that is not necessarily true.
There are many ways to find a trustworthy younger person to “take care of you.” And why focus on someone a generation younger? A much more healthy 5 year younger person can be appointed power of attorney and carry out the fiduciary duties in a trust.
How much could a bed in the basement cost???
“How much could a bed in the basement cost???”
You may have something there. I have heard of a Bed & Breakfast. You could open a Bed & Basement.
Or why not open a new chain, called “Beds, Basements and Beyond”?
Beds, Basements, and Beneath?
The apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree. The Boomers’ moral relativism has not surprisingly produced spawn who like their parents are soulless, hedonistic, and crass, while being devoid of anything resembling core principles and convictions.
“…spawn who like their parents are soulless, hedonistic, and crass, while being devoid of anything resembling core principles and convictions….”
Sounds like SOMEbody needs to get out more often…. The young people I know are as steadfast and exemplary as any I’ve met in my life. And that “moral relativisim” has allowed them to take a reasoned and compassionate stance on the many idiocies and inequities visited upon this world by their elders. Our future is in good hands– provided they can pry it from ours.
“The young people I know are as steadfast and exemplary as any I’ve met in my life. And that “moral relativisim” has allowed them to take a reasoned and compassionate stance on the many idiocies and inequities visited upon this world by their elders”
Where do you live?
Corey Graham Jr., 19, of Belle Glade, makes his first appearance in court Sunday Jan. 8, 2012. He is charged with first degree murder with a firearm, armed robbery with a firearm and aggravated assault with a firearm in the Jan. 2 death of Belle Glade grocery store owner Jimmy McMillan.
By Bill DiPaolo and Mitra Malek
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 10:18 a.m. Sunday, Jan. 8, 2012
WEST PALM BEACH — The 19-year-old college student charged with murdering Belle Glade grocery store owner Jimmy McMillan will be held on no bond and can only communicate by phone with the public defender appointed to him.
Palm Beach County Court Judge Nelson E. Bailey this morning said that due to “the nature” of the crime with which he is being charged, Corey Graham Jr. would be held on no bond
I live in the mountains of Central CA, but the young adults I refer to live all over the planet. I dare say a few even post here on HBB…!
Have you ever tried to befriend one or three, jeff? You might be surprised at the commonality.
Yes I know quite a few good kids. The number of bad kids although far greater in the area I live now than where I grew up, on a percentage probably hasn`t changed much since I was a kid. But it sure seems like the bad things they do has gotten a lot worse.
“Have you ever tried to befriend one or three, jeff?”
Actually I have befriended hundreds. I coached little league baseball and softball from 1995 - 2005 from T-ball to travel teams that placed nationally. Believe it or not I was a highly coveted coach in Palm Beach Gardens. I was best remembered for taking Rec kids that had a lot of trouble playing or in school. I would have the parents of kids that had trouble playing (usually hitting) bring them to a field where no one would know and work with them, usually throwing them a big play ball you would get at Kmart. Those kids would have a blast smacking that thing and watching their parent chase it down. Then I would tell them that there was no difference between the center of the big play ball or a baseball or softball. Some took more work than others but when those kids would get that hit in a game the smile on their faces as well as their parents was worth 3 years of no house payment. A few kids that were great players and playing meant a lot to, got sat down (although it POd some people for taking one of our better players out of a game) because of problems in school, which for that season anyway took care of that. Those parents were very greatful.
That is where my wife and myself met quite a few single parents who we have tried to help through the years wether it was work around their house or with their kids. I have coached kids from very famous golfers grandchildren to kids who were living at the poverty level. I have kids and parents come up to me frequently and tell me how much fun they had and the year or years they had with me were the best times they had. That makes you feel good even if you are an old “POB”
The day this tiny, scrawny little tomboy first connected bat to ball was one I’ll never forget– and it was thanks to someone like you who saw me struggling and took the time to help out with a few pitches and suggestions. I went on to develop a sweet, hard low fly to the outer fields that left everyone who underestimated me agape. I was a fast little bugger, too, and sneaky off of second base….;-)
Thanks, Jeff!
“I was a fast little bugger, too, and sneaky off of second base…”
My kinda player!
You must meet different young people than I do. The ones that I encounter are incredibly self centered and lacking in ethics.
My two oldest daughters have employed boyfriends/husbands who are stand-up guys.
The 18 year old……..uhh, not so much. She just broke up with him (again). He’s currently on my $h#t list, for punching my 52″ LCD TV while arguing with my daughter. Then running away like a giant p###y when I showed up.
(He ran before I knew he had trashed the TV. Maybe he isn’t as stupid as I thought….Funny……he never trashed HIS stuff when he has these tantrums)
Told her that I would be real disappointed with her, if she got back together with this loser. This is about the fourth time they’ve “broken up”.
Better hitting the TV than your daughter. Maybe he needs some anger management help?
They say hitting stuff is an indicator of higher than normal propensity to hit people eventually. I don’t know for a fact that’s true, but it makes sense to me.
People are people. I have met intelligent young-un’s and and quite a few dopes as well. Probably near the same percentages as prior generations.
I view my responsibility as trying to light the critical thinking flame of non-conformity in our youth. Question authority. Question statism. Be honest, hardworking. Let your word be your bond. Be consistent, reliable. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I’ve got a kid working onsite that is literally dumb as a stump. True organic stupidity. Nice kid, works hard. But dumb, dumb, dumb.
He’s a friends kid so I take special care with him. He would have been fired otherwise.
Bet he’s a legend among his peers playing Grand Theft auto?
Nice kid, works hard. But dumb, dumb, dumb.
Kids. We called the local HS to see if they
had any young men who would like to earn
some pocket money doing some chores.
We were assured the young men were hard working, responsible, and honest. We fed
them lunch and only one showed up the next day, saying he didn’t mind the work as he was raised on a ranch. One out of four…..
It took us three years to find a young man to
help work the ranch. Trying to find someone who shows up on time, understands what has to be done, and when done, finds things to do, is honest and happy with machinery is an almost impossible task. We had some that didn’t even make it to lunch on their first day.
Jim has been working for me now for 12 years, off and on now that we sold the ranch. He started out at $650/week, now
it’s almost double and worth every penny.
You need to watch this video….nothing like
a sense of entitlement in kids…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxHfYNTrnic
Talk about missing the point.
Chambliss is a teacher at a third-rate community college who shills for Neil Boortz, YAF, and other right-of-Attilla the Hun causes.
His students seem to understand better than he does that American society functions as it does not because of our aristocratic institutions but our democratic ones. (Well, in theory, anyway….)
In the interest of an educated electorate and competitive workforce, I’ve long advocated the idea of free tuition for those who qualify — with the expectation that it will be repaid by a commensurate stint of public service. (Like it is in most civilized countries; indeed, in our own socialist military.)
Society-supported health care (Medicare, anyone?,) benefits us all, as does ensuring adequate housing so we don’t have half the population living on what’s left of our streets.
Note, too, that the “survey” as cited edited out the word “affordable” and implied that the students expected “the government” to GIVE them down payments for housing.
Chambliss also selectively describes his “study” to Fox using the word “expect” rather than “envision” to describe how the survey was worded to his classes. He never quotes directly from it or offers visual documentation. But then, this is Fox….
And while these two smug commentators were bemoaning government entitlements for the benefit of the Fox viewership, they completely missed the point that these kids were the very people who will be deciding public policy when it comes time for them to depend on the younger generation for their survival. And that the kids have a pretty expansive idea of what civic responsibility entails. (Hint: it’s not working as serfs to an insular financial elite.)
So. Let’s demonize “Kids Today” for their communality, and teach them that social consciousness is evil, that money is earned in a vacuum, that entitlements for the poor as well as the rich are innately unfair, that the wealthy are victimized, that government is a grab, and that rather than being a member of an inter-dependent society, they are on their own– and so is everybody else .
Strategic thinking at its finest.
Finally someone here said what needed to be said. Good.
“But so are Mom and Dad, who have seen their own retirement nest eggs cracked, their retirement incomes shrunk and even the value of their nests - the family home - fall.”
And after all this stored-up money is gone, then what?
It looks as if a large section of the economy is running on fumes.
It looks as though the millipede which keeps dropping shoes on the economy is far from running out of shoes.
It looks as if a large section of the economy is running on fumes.
Which is why I’m worried about the Fed’s jawboning about the return of EZ loans. I think that they will do something crazy, line 2% fixed rate NINJA loans, with waivers for underwater loan refis to “stimulate” the economy.
If this idiocy comes to pass we’ll sell the house and downsize.
“Baby boomers, who were notorious for prolonging their own adolescences well into their 20s and beyond”
I stopped reading right there.
More divide and conquer bullcrap to keep people from remembering who the REAL culprits are.
Wall St.
With the MBA, the NAR and the NAHB all immediately voicing their approval of the Fed’s housing market white paper, it must contain a juicy slice of pork for every REIC constituent.
MBA Gives Thumbs Up To Fed’s Housing White Paper
in News > Residential Mortgage
by MortgageOrb.com on Friday 06 January 2012
The Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) has voiced its approval for the Federal Reserve’s recently released white paper that provides a potential framework for improving the health of the housing market.
MBA President and CEO David H. Stevens, in a press statement released by his office, noted that the white paper - titled “The U.S. Housing Market: Current Conditions and Policy Considerations” - mirrored many suggestions and observations previously raised by the trade association.
“The Fed’s white paper is a thoughtful document that raises a number of very interesting issues that policymakers ought to consider as they seek to solve the ongoing ills of the housing market,” Stevens said. “The Fed staff’s comments validate much of what we have been saying, as it relates to the balance between credit availability and consumer protection, as well as the role that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could play in stabilizing and revitalizing the mortgage market.”
…
Blah blah blah…
Translation: the Wall Street-Federal Reserve Looting Syndicate is getting ready to bend over the taxpayers, yet again, for another DELIVERANCE-style reaming. Aided and abetted by the Republicrat majority on Capitol Hill.
They might be sensing that the window of opportunity is closing. A friend of my wife’s, a TV addicted sheep and Obama Zombie in ‘08 (redundant, I realize) got her wake-up jolt with the NDAA. That shook her up enough to question her previous (vapid) assumptions, and she’s developed a sudden interest in the Ron Paul campaign. One thing is certain: the kleptocrats can no longer assume that 95% of the electorate will remain the docile sheep they were in ‘08. Thus the pillaging looks set to go into high gear while the banksters can still rape with impunity.
Anyone who votes for Obama is an idiot. That’s why I’m voting for the man of the people.
ROMNEY 2012!
Which people? The same Rovains who brought us GW?
Can’t tell if this is RAL-like satire or if you’re genuinely off your rocker, son. Normally, you’re a fairly well-reasoned poster, but well, to tell you the truth, I’m kinda concerned about all of this…
It’s satire. Not particularly subtle, but satire nonetheless.
Subtlety was never my strong point.
There’s a guy on Zero Hedge who posts as “Million Dollar Bonus” who is a master of satire. He winds up all the firebreathers over there by showing up and defending the Fed and saying how Ivy League educated elites really should be running the world. He gets the posters foaming with rage when he explains, straight faced, why Ron Paul should not be running for public office. At first I thought he was a world class jacka$$, but quickly realized it was satire at its best. The key is to make the satire BELIEVABLE, RAL!
The key is to make the satire BELIEVABLE…
Tom Wolfe make reality digestible with satire.
Jesus was the best at satire and sarcasm.
“If your right hand causes you to sin cut it off.” Mark 9:43
Yes folks….. he was using Jewish satire. *Think* Sandler or Maher.
Obama and Romney are the same guy.
Obamney?
They should just run on the same ticket and save the country all of the annoying commercials.
“…for another DELIVERANCE-style reaming.”
Got dueling banjos?
Don’t you suppose music like that can really get banksters into the mood for reaming?
Wasn’t that the evil capitalist from Robocop?
The “white paper” advocates:
A government-facilitated large scale REO-to-rental program.
Federal funding for a “land bank” program to acquire and either demolish or rehabilitate properties with very low value.
Relax lending standards!
Let Fan and Fred offer refinancing even to loans that are not GSE- or FHA-insured/guaranteed.
Expand/modify existing HAMP and loan modification programs.
The net result is more money transferred from us to the banks. Check out “The role of Banks” that starts near the bottom of page 15 of 28. There are some interesting facts on how long banks can hold REO properties.
http://federalreserve.gov/publications/other-reports/files/housing-white-paper-20120104.pdf
The cost of housing must be kept above what indivicuals can pay for it. Low cost housing must not be put in the hands of individuals, rather in the hands of landlords who can profit from individuals. Round up the herd and close off the exits.
It’s a very similar concept, when you think about it, to giving Megabank, Inc zero-percent loans which they can lend out to the masses at ‘market rates.’ The goal is to provide the landlord/bankster class carte blanche opportunities to ream the rest of us.
“The net result is more money transferred from us to the banks.”
It’s good to have a clear understanding of the true objective of a policy.
It’s GOOD to be the Banksta!
With all of the exciting news of the Fed’s latest hair-of-the-dog housing market stimulus initiative, I have recently ignored the euro zone debt crisis. Is it poised to end some time soon?
Greek Debt Writedown Should Exceed 50%, Schaeuble Aide Fuest Tells Vima
By Natalie Weeks - Jan 7, 2012 11:04 AM PT
The planned 50 percent writedown of Greek government bonds held by private creditors as part of a debt swap won’t be enough to make the country’s debt sustainable, an adviser to German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told To Vima in an interview.
The write down, which aims to lower Greece’s debt to 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2020, will have to be greater and shouldn’t be voluntary, Oxford University professor Clemens Fuest told the Athens-based newspaper.
…
Europe
Eurozone debt doubts drag euro down
The 17-nation currency sank to a more than one-year low against the dollar and hit an 11-year low versus the yen.
Last Modified: 05 Jan 2012 23:47
Analysts expect the euro to stay under pressure this year [Reuters]
The euro has sunk to a more than one-year low against the dollar and hit an 11-year low versus the yen amid concerns over Europe’s debt crisis as Italy and Spain came under intense pressure on the markets.
The 17-nation currency fell as low as $1.2775 on Thursday, its weakest level since September 2010.
Spain said it banks would need 50 billion euros, more than first expected, to cover bad loan losses, while Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti rattled nerves with an unannounced visit to Brussels.
Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos’ estimate of the banks’ bad loans was higher than many private forecasts and sat awkwardly with a European Banking Authority finding that Spain’s five biggest banks require 26 billion euros in fresh capital.
Spain’s new right-leaning government meanwhile warned the country’s social security fund’s accounts are worse than had been feared, with a 2011 deficit of 668 million euros ($856 million) instead of a surplus, adding to the problems.
…
Doesn’t matter how well you dress-up their debt; it’s still ugly.
Some level of ugly is beyond the skills of even the most adroit porcine beautician to hide.
China sends warning signals about economic downturn
Posted: 01/08/2012 01:00:00 AM MST
By Robert J. Samuelson
contributing editor of Newsweek and The Washington Post and writes about business and economic issues.
WASHINGTON — Even China? Could the world’s economic juggernaut, having grown an average of 10 percent annually for three decades, face a slowdown or what for China would be a recession? Does it have a real estate “bubble” about to pop? What would be the global consequences? Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner visits China and Japan this week. These questions form a backdrop. With Europe’s slump and America’s sluggish economy, a sizable Chinese slowdown would be bad news.
There are warning signs. Economist Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute cites three. First, Europe’s slump has weakened China’s trade; Europe buys about a fifth of its exports. Second, housing is showing signs of a bubble and is deflating. Finally, China’s government will have a harder time deploying a stimulus than during the 2008-09 financial crisis. Government debt rose from 26 percent of gross domestic product in 2007 to 43 percent of GDP in 2010.
How all this affects China’s growth is controversial. “Most likely, China will have a soft landing,” says Justin Yifu Lin, the World Bank’s chief economist. “Growth goes to 8 percent or 8.5 percent.”
…
This is the problem with economic models built on cancer like growth. They are unsustainable in a world with finite resources.
“Does it have a real estate “bubble” about to pop?”
Given that bubbly Vancouver and Toronto are affordable by comparison (prices vs. incomes) I would say yes.
Jan. 7, 2012, 11:20 p.m. EST
Chinese outlook unusually uncertain: experts
By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — The outlook for the Chinese economy is cloudier than it has been in years, experts said.
The road ahead for China is the “great unanswerable question,” said Lawrence Summers, the former top economic adviser to President Barack Obama, in a speech at the American Economic Association meeting Saturday.
“Whatever you think the range of possible outcomes is [for China] over the next 25 years, it is wider,” Summers said.
Robert Zoellick, the president of the World Bank, said there is widespread recognition that the Chinese growth model, that has been so successful past 30 years, will not work in decades ahead.
…
Well, if your economic well being depends on increasing exports 10% year after year to a bankrupt west, you have a problem. The way things are going they will be lucky if exports don’t drop.
Your own little island getaway. Hope there isn’t a storm. Doesn’t look like anyplace to run to.
http://www.cnyhomes.com/Listing/Search/info.cgi?mlnum=S245655
Looks like the interior design is from the late 40s. Ho hum! Northeasterners have a fixation on the past.
I think Americans do in general. Probably has to do with our relative lack of history.
A European once asked me why Americans are so fixated with “classic cars”. He couldn’t understand why anyone would want to restore and drive such obsolete relics.
Did you respond by asking why Europeans are so fixated with antiquated ways of national governance?
I would have.
I’ll take their parliamentary system over our rigged 2 party system any day.
+1
You didn’t answer my question.
It’s not as if their parliamentary system has worked wonders. They are in sad shape, too.
Actually Poser, no they aren’t
Only parts of Europe are having problems. The rest are doing just fine. Better than “fine” actually.
The rest are doing just fine. Better than “fine” actually.
While we are falling into the abyss of fascism.
“Northeasterners have a fixation on the past.”
New Englanders specifically. They chase some aura of days gone by that only exists in books. It never existed in reality. Typically they are pretentious, Eurotrash driving, sneaker wearing fools neck deep in consumer debt.
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — An Iranian newspaper quotes a senior commander in Iran’s Revolutionary Guard as saying that Tehran’s leadership has decided to order the closure of the strategic Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf if the country’s oil exports are blocked.
Khorasan daily reported Sunday that Ali Ashraf Nouri says the strategic decision has been made by Iran’s top authorities.
Iranian politicians have made the threat in the past, but this is the strongest statement yet that a closure of the strait is official policy.
The U.S. has recently enacted new sanctions targeting Iran’s central bank and its ability to sell petroleum abroad over Tehran’s nuclear program. Washington says Tehran is trying to develop weapons, while Iran denies the charges.
Bratty little boys and their deadly little toys. What business the US thinks it has in dictating internal policy to sovereign Iran I cannot fathom. It’s their democracy and it’s their oil and they want parity because they’re surrounded by crazy people.
Israel is nuclear and belligerent. Pakistan is nuclear and belligerent. There’s spent nuclear fuel and likely deployable nuclear weaponry all over Iraq. And Turkey. Saudis are nuclear and belligerent. There’s civil war in Syria, Libya, and the Chinese taking over Africa and expansionist. Oh and they’re nuclear, too.
This isn’t about containing nukes, it’s about having an excuse to bilk more money from the American taxpayer to finance the executive likes of weapons-mongers at GE, Boeing, Lockheed, KBR and the Pentagon. It’s about controlling other people’s national resources for the benefit of BP, Chevron, Hamsah, and their bloody venal ilk. It’s about degrading entire populations for the benefit of the (very) few.
And I’m sick of it.
And the poor guys and gals who sign up for the military believe that they are “a force for good”, spreading freedom around the globe. And of course they believe that we are hated for our rock-n-roll and “freedom”.
Such is youth.
I read the book “The Making of a Marine” and one of the things I took away from it was that the military has had thousands of years of experience molding young recruits into what it wants them to be, and this experience was set against the recruit’s experience of a measly eighteen-or-so years.
Putty.
In the late Seventies the military was being pared down by President Carter (I believe) and ex-President Nixon said that the paring was being done in the wrong way: The generals were being gotten rid of right along with the rest of the military personell.
This was the wrong thing to do because the generals are the ones who know tactics and strategy and thus they are the ones that are difficult to replace, said Nixon.
“Killers” (as Nixon called them) are easy to replace: Camp Pendleton produces hundreds of killers every month. (As in: Give to the marines an eighteen year old boy for a short while and they will give back to you a killer.)
This remark about killers angered me at the time (an emotion) but as I grew older I began to realize (and rationally accept) the truth of it.
This remark about killers angered me at the time (an emotion) but as I grew older I began to realize (and rationally accept) the truth of it.
Contrary to the propaganda of “being a force for good”, soldiers are killers. It is what they are trained to do, and for that reason I am wary of them when they return to the civilian world. I don’t see how they can return mentally undamaged from a tour of duty in the middle east.
“… soldiers are killers …”
Soldiers that have been in combat are killers.
There is a line there somewhere, and once that line has been crossed one cannot go back.
“I don’t see how they can return mentally undamaged from a tour of duty in the middle east.”
Or from Vietnam. Or Korea. Or from WW2.
Combat soldiers, that is.
The closer one is to the enemy that he kills the more tramatic it is to the killer. Also the trama of having one’s buddies killed weighs heavily.
And nobody that has ever been there can fully understand this. And this makes the survivor feel quite alone, and not able to fit back in with what he left behind.
Combat soldiers, that is.
Agreed, but it’s worth remembering these days most of the non combat roles have been outsourced to civilians.
am a veteran but did NOT experience combat…a book that gave me a sense of it and seemed to ring true was “The Thin Red Line” by James Jones…the author served in the Army in the Pacific during WW2. The middle book of a trilogy that included “From Here to Eternity” and “Whistle” which covered the pre and post war periods and the difficulty combat veterans experienced after the war
http://www.amazon.com/Whistle-James-Jones/dp/1453218491/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326077916&sr=1-2
So which one of you has the personal experience, or knows one or more such killers, to back up your assertions.
Azzholes all.
I do. Soldiers are trained to kill without feeling. It is their SOLE purpose.
Ditto, C.
I do as well, and it ruined every one of them. And while we’re talking trauma, let’s mention the people they killed? Particularly the “collaterally damaged” ones?
Look what it did to you, BiC….
Hey Bluto! Nice to see you.
Same youth that voted for Obama. *Sigh*
We did stupid things in our youth, too. Lots of them.
They hate us for our freedom.
http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/NDAA
Oh, wait.
I love the last paragraph, they actually believe the same supreme court that gave us citizens united will overturn this shredding of the constitution. Big money has won, they own it all now. The president (both parties) the congress (both parties), the supreme court, and of course the press.
“Big money has won, they own it all now.”
Wait a minute — they used the Fed’s printing press technology to steal it, fair and square.
There is a legal (though not a really practical) difference between an Iranian nuke and Pakistani, Israeli and/or Indian nukes. Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has been found in violation of the obligations it took on under that treaty. Pakistan, India and Israel never signed and therefore have no international obligation to not have nukes.
Iran didn’t even bother to do what North Korea (claim it was in the extraordinary circumstances required by the treaty and withdraw) did to get out from under the obligation. I believe Iran still claims to be in full compliance.
So was the US. But that didn’t stop us from giving nuclear technology to the Brits, the French, the Israelis, the Indians, Japan, the Saudis…. Nor does it stop us from offering our implicit nuclear capacity to “friendly” nations.
“… I believe Iran still claims to be in full compliance….”
Perhaps they are. Legally….
The treaty didn’t come into force officially until 1970. The UK and France were already nuclear powers by then. Israel went nuclear in the 60’s and they actually got most of their advanced tech from France, not the US, in the 40’s and 50’s (anything to piss off the Brits who hated the Jewish Palestinians). I kind of doubt they really needed our help once Dimona was going in the 50’s.
And the treaty doesn’t discourage general nuclear technology. Only bombs or stuff tech that is used for making bombs. Japan’s power plants are OK under the treaty. Whether they are OK given their seismic issues is another story altogether.
The audacity of those Iranians! Who in the hell do they think they are living on top of our oil?
We must liberate our resources from these savages. They haven’t invaded another country in over 200 years so that means they must be getting ready for a full frontal assault.
I’ll have to check my latest Koch brothers flyer to verify that though.
ROMNEY 2012!
Whew. I was getting worried. Between you and goonie, I’m having increasing spells of cognitive dissonance.
US Navy rescues Iranian fishing boat from pirates
TEHRAN: The Iranian government yesterday welcomed a US navy rescue of 13 of its nationals from pirates near the entrance to the Gulf, in a rare respite from months of rising tensions between Tehran and Washington. But one Iranian media outlet, the Fars news agency, which is close to the hardline Revolutionary Guards, dismissed the incident as a suspect “Hollywood movie” meant “to justify the presence of a (US) aircraft carrier in…Gulf waters”.
Sailors are always willing to help others at sea regardless of whose flag is hoisted because all sailors understand that the world’s oceans are merciless.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now
Doris Day or Doris Don`t Pay
Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The Deadbeat’s can live for free
Que Sera, Sera
When I went house shopping
I asked my Realtor what lies ahead
Are there foreclosures, when will they pay?
Here’s what my Realtor said.
Que Sera, Sera,
The Deadbeat’s will live for free
The future’s not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
Now I have children, there almost grown
They ask their father, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.
Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The Deadbeat’s will live for free
Que Sera, Sera
Serenity Now, Serenity Now
Denial is ending in at least some corners of the MSM.
Our American Promise is at a crossroads
Originally published Saturday, January 7, 2012 at 10:00 PM
A Rasmussen Poll last October found that only 37 percent of likely voters believed that America’s best days were ahead. In a Gallup survey, 55 percent of respondents said it was very or somewhat unlikely that today’s youth would enjoy a better life than their parents’.
By Jon Talton
Just as strong winds whip a large flag along a fence line in southern Oregon, turbulent economic times are battering the nation’s and the region’s sense of security. Poverty rates in Washington and 31 other states are up, and more than 300,000 here are unemployed.
ALAN BERNER / THE SEATTLE TIMES
I OVERHEAR many conversations about the economy, but the topper came recently in downtown Seattle.
As two well-dressed men discussed the eurozone crisis and high unemployment at home, one said, “I’ll tell you what I think it is: It’s the beginning of the end of the world.”
The severe recession and its staggering aftermath do represent the end of a world, if not the world. We live in the new hard times.
…
Starting in the 1980s, the masters of the universe on Wall Street engineered waves of mergers. They were money machines for the bankers, lawyers and executives. But many made little economic sense. The result was a highly concentrated economy with many cities losing their corporate crown jewels and best jobs.
Still, times seemed good for most in the 1980s and ’90s, the American promise renewed. Americans enjoyed a cornucopia of inexpensive imported goods. The rise of high-tech sectors gave us the personal computer and a profusion of electronic gadgets to delight and distract. The Microsoft Millionaire seemed to emblematize a new age of aspirations.
Middle-class Americans gained entry into domains once largely those of the rich, from easy credit and ever-larger houses to gourmet foods. If pensions were replaced by risky 401(k)s, many embraced the change: In the long bull market, average folks became investing geniuses.
When the bull market and dot-com run ended, Alan Greenspan’s Fed eased credit and the housing boom began. The now-deregulated and highly concentrated banking industry turned it into the biggest, riskiest speculative bubble in history.
They weren’t alone. Both political parties encouraged the binge. Many bought houses they couldn’t afford. Houses became something to flip, a source of easy riches because, the experts assured us, prices would always go up.
Even with stagnant wages, average Americans kept up appearances. Until the bubble burst.
Consumer spending accounts for two-thirds of the economy, and even as more were falling behind, they kept spending. When two-paycheck families, or even multiple jobs, weren’t enough, they went deeply into debt.
Then came the collapse. Millions were ruined. Not one major figure behind the dodgy schemes or outright swindles on Wall Street was prosecuted. A federal criminal investigation of Kerry Killinger, who built venerable Washington Mutual into a gigantic mortgage mill, was dropped. No one, it seemed, would be held accountable for the nation’s biggest bank failure.
IN THE AFTERMATH, the nation is divided more than it has been at any time since the Civil War. We’re split into haves, have-nots and, increasingly, never-will-haves. Divided politically, even as officials of both parties depend on the corporate and Wall Street elite for campaign funding. Separated by arguments over how to fix the economy and restore the American promise.
…
The American Dream died 30 years ago for J6P.
The only “corssroads” we’re at is will the 1% be reigned in or will we end up with cities on fire again?
Farr: The Fed is Creating Moral Hazard
Published: Friday, 6 Jan 2012 | 9:42 AM ET
By: Michael K. Farr
Managing Director Farr, Miller & Washington CNBC Contributor
Federal Reserve intervention in the economy has profound implications for not only the prices of goods and services, but also financial assets.
The Fed [cnbc explains] has kept the Fed Funds rate at close to zero for over three years now, with a promise to remain low at least through the middle of next year. As a result, investors across the globe are forced into risky assets that offer better return potential.
This rotation of money into stocks, commodities, high yield bonds, real estate, etc, has lifted the prices of these assets relative to where prices would be otherwise. And higher asset prices have been supportive of our economic recovery.
However, the Fed’s action does not come without risk.
Many economists believe that the Fed’s large-scale monetary policy (to include rate cuts and “Quantitative Easing” [cnbc explains] ) will eventually lead to widespread inflationary pressures across the economy. Others say that forcing investors into risky assets could lead to asset bubbles the likes of which we are very familiar with by now. At the very least, we think the Fed is creating a problem of “moral hazard” which may be difficult to unwind in the future.
Old, anachronistic investors believed that they could, under certain circumstances, lose all of their money when making an investment. But the notion of “caveat emptor” seems to have been lost as the Federal Reserve, Treasury Department, and Congress joined forces to save the financial system. Investors learned that the stock market was far too important to the consumer psyche to let it fall too far. Investors also learned that many companies, and therefore investments in those companies, were simply “too big to fail”.
…
Pure BS - The top 1% own most of these risky assets, thus all the money printing is being concentrated. The FED has done nothing to fix the problem of a broke consumer. Wake me up when the gov starts creating jobs.
Jan. 6, 2012, 2:55 p.m. EST
Fed seen unveiling QE3 bond plans by summer
Mortgage-bond purchases could begin this spring, analysts say
By Deborah Levine, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — A growing number of economists, analysts and bond investors think the Federal Reserve will announce another massive bond-purchase plan by the middle of the year, if forecasts for persistently high unemployment and slowing inflation come to fruition.
While a report Friday showed the U.S. unemployment rate fell to 8.5% in December, the job market is not expected to improve quickly enough for Fed policy-makers, who are looking for a much bigger drop in the jobless rate to support solid economic growth.
There’s debate about how such a program from the Fed will work, but the market’s sense is that someone needs to do something, and the U.S. central bank seems to be the only institution in the country willing and able to take steps to support the economy.
Money managers and strategists say the Fed will have enough reasons — domestic sluggishness, lack of action from Congress and the White House,simmering debt problems in Europe — to begin a third round of quantitative easing, dubbed QE3.
“We have an activist Fed that’s chafing under ongoing weakness in the housing market and chronically high unemployment,” said Bill O’Donnell, head of Treasury strategy at RBS Securities. “By the summertime, we’ll be thinking about or even looking at a QE3. It’s reasonable just to do something. It’s very clear that Washington isn’t about to step up with some bipartisan grand plan, and something will need to be done.”
…
January 4, 2012, 2:39 PM
Big Banks See Better Than 50/50 Odds of QE3
By Michael S. Derby
Wall Street’s biggest banks expect the Federal Reserve‘s 0% interest rates to persist into at least 2014, and see good odds the Fed will provide additional stimulus to the economy in the near term, according to a Federal Reserve Bank of New York survey of primary dealers.
The poll released Wednesday made available the views of dealers given to the Fed ahead of its December Federal Open Market Committee meeting. Last month, as part of a bid for greater openness, the central bank said it would make public both the questions and aggregated results of its dealer surveys.
Seems to me they are all ratcheting up pressure on the FED.
So far, the Fed has done much to reward banksters who pander for bailouts. I expect more of the same going forward.
THE OUTLOOK
JANUARY 8, 2012, 3:08 P.M. ET
Unemployment Scars Likely to Last for Years
By BEN CASSELMAN
Chicago
The U.S. job market is showing signs of a sustained recovery. But the country’s prolonged struggle with unemployment will leave scars that are likely to remain for years, if not generations.
The latest labor-market snapshot, out Friday, gave cause for continued, if tepid, optimism. U.S. employers added 200,000 jobs in December, and the unemployment rate ticked down to 8.5%, its lowest level since early 2009.
But economists gathered here for the American Economic Association’s annual convention took a longer and generally dimmer view. Even if recent progress continues, the recession already has had a lasting effect on a generation of workers. Worse, the crisis has laid bare problems in the U.S. labor market that won’t quickly recover when the economy eventually rebounds. And the longer that unemployment remains high, the greater the risk that it will create structural problems that will endure.
The economists here, mostly academics, are studying the causes and effects of the jobs crisis from different angles, and they frequently disagree. Nonetheless, a few common themes emerge.
…
6 recessions, double digit inflation and millions of job sent overseas in the last 35 years have left unrecoverable scars for life for millions.
Marie Antoinette didn’t get it either.
The miserable economy of the seventies and early eighties hobbled my start in life, but I got in some good partying and skydiving; maybe it was a good thing though. I have friends who bolted from high school to college to marriage to children, and now their chance to have that care-free fun is slipping away.
Oh, Good: The Fed Urges More Government Housing Aid
Jan 08, 2012 03:15 PM EST
Hey, I have an idea: how about, instead of searching for new, expanded ways to further the role of the federal government in individuals’ and businesses’ private financial lives and deepen the rut that caused and is keeping us in the economic doldrums, we instead think of ways to scale back the federal government’s power and free people, businesses, and banks up to engage in free enterprise and innovation without interference? Anyone? Ugh, these big-government types just never learn! If Bernanke gets his way, the Fed is going to gum up the works of the housing market even more with their uncertainty-creating ‘interventions.’ Easing, schmeasing:
Ron Paul would not be pleased.
“…and free people, businesses, and banks up to engage in free enterprise and innovation without interference?”
Wow, I’ve heard of short term memory, but this is ridiculous.
January 08, 2012 — Updated January 08, 2012 13:13
US Fed to Drive Housing Market
US Fed policy makers push for more housing aid
Three Federal Reserve policy makers said the US government should try new ways to boost the housing market without agreeing about how much more the central bank needs to do to bring down interest rates.
New York Fed President William C. Dudley said in New Jersey Thursday that “additional housing policy interventions” can help boost growth, even as the US Fed should consider further easing.
Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren, speaking in Connecticut, took a more aggressive position of supporting the purchase of mortgage-backed securities.
Fed Governor Elizabeth Duke said in Virginia that the central bank’s current monetary stance is “appropriate.”
The comments underscore concerns by US Fed officials that they may be reaching the limits of their power to boost growth and lower unemployment through 3 yrs of near-Zero interest rates and unconventional policy tools.
…
Rent now, or get priced out forever.
‘Renter Nation’ rages on as new reality in U.S.
By Diana Olick, CNBC.com
Updated 2d 1h ago
For some it is post-traumatic stress from the housing crash, for others it is the inability to get financing to buy a home. Either way, the rental market continues on its tear.
In the last quarter of 2011, the apartment sector saw its largest quarterly increase in occupied stock of the year, according to Reis Inc.
The vacancy rate dropped to 5.2%, the lowest since 2001 and lower than the last cyclical drop in 2006.
This bucks the historical seasonal weakness typical of the colder months of the year. The fourth quarter also tends to be a weaker leasing period, according to Reis, given that most households make moving decisions in the second and third quarters.
…
Housing looms as strong voting issue in presidential election
Although fixing the sagging economy is the biggest concern for potential voters, four national surveys undertaken by real estate organizations indicate that housing is also a major issue.
By Lew Sichelman
January 8, 2012
Reporting from Washington—
At no time in memory has housing been a major issue in a presidential election. Some years, the topic garners hardly more than a passing mention in the planks of either political party.
Right now, housing is not a front-and-center issue for President Obama or any of the Republican presidential hopefuls. But no fewer than four recent national surveys indicate that the issue is a top-of-mind topic among potential voters.
Granted, all four were undertaken by real estate organizations — Realtor.com, HouseLogic, Yahoo Real Estate and Trulia. But the unanimity of their findings underscores just how worried current and future owners are about their homes.
“We were very surprised just how passionate people are” about housing issues, said Julia Reynolds of Move Inc., which operates Realtor.com, the official website of the National Assn. of Realtors.
In the Realtor.com survey, housing was a particularly strong voting issue for “millennials,” also known as the Internet Generation. Millennials were born after 1982, meaning that the oldest will be of prime home-buying age when November rolls around.
On a nearly 3-1 basis, these young voters told the Realtor.com pollsters that what the candidates had to say about housing will be either very or somewhat important to their voting decisions.
In the poll by HouseLogic, a consumer website also operated by the politically powerful Realtors group, housing came in a distant second to jobs as the issue that will have the greatest effect on respondents’ votes in November. But housing ranked way above national security, healthcare, energy or the environment.
Just over half the participants in the Yahoo study want Uncle Sam to do more to help owners who are at risk of losing their homes. A little more than 1 in 4 said the federal government has gone as far as it should to help struggling owners. The rest had no opinion on the matter.
…
Housing is very important to me. The party or candidate who vows to end government intervention in the markets will be my choice.
Then your choice should already be made. Ron Paul. Or Gary Johnson if you’d rather. The rest are crony capitalism as usual.
Or any candidate willing to speak truth to the entrenched power structures of all types, HCS included, will get two votes from us.
The duopoly is corrupt.
The really disheartening thing is the MSM is altogether accepting of the Fed’s and the REIC’s repeated mantra that more, not less, government intervention in the housing market is the only way forward.
Each time the housing market begins to show signs of healing, the Fed freaks out and tries to reflate the bubble again. It is rather like trying to make a dead horse get up and run by beating it. It ain’t gonna run.
Mortgage modification scams trap desperate homeowners
By Jennifer Dixon, Detroit Free Press
Updated 2d ago
The foreclosure crisis that has spread across the country is producing another epidemic: mortgage modification scams that have cost desperate borrowers thousands of dollars — even their homes.
“There are devastating consequences to this fraud,” said Christy Romero, deputy special inspector general who monitors potential fraud in the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).
In early December, Romero’s agency, SIGTARP, joined the U.S. Treasury Department and the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to fight scams targeting homeowners seeking mortgage modifications under the U.S. Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP).
A total of $29.9 billion in TARP funds has been set aside for the federal government’s foreclosure prevention initiatives, including HAMP.
Applying for HAMP is free, as is the loan modification advice of housing counselors approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
You can apply for the government’s Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP) on your own or with free help from a housing counselor approved by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Yet scam artists have convinced struggling homeowners to pay a fee in return for false promises of lowering their debt or their mortgage payments.
Other swindlers have had homeowners turn over the deeds to their homes, told borrowers to stop making their payments, or insisted they stop dealing with their mortgage servicer.
…
Well if it worked for the banks… *shrug*
Fair Game
From East and West, Foreclosure Horror Stories
By GRETCHEN MORGENSON
Published: January 7, 2012
THE authorities have fallen silent lately about a possible settlement over foreclosure abuses at big mortgage servicing companies.
The talks began in earnest last March, and people keep whispering that a deal is nigh. But last week, a spokesman for Shaun Donovan, the secretary of Housing and Urban Development and a lead negotiator, said that there was nothing new to report.
That’s probably not a terrible thing. After all, no deal is better than a bad deal. State and federal authorities jumped into these talks without conducting serious investigations into foreclosure shenanigans. Why strike a deal — one that would, say, shield banks from new litigation over toxic loans, flawed securitizations and the mess at MERS, the registry that has made such a jumble of land records — without knowing what happened?
So it’s nice to know some attorneys general are taking matters into their own hands. One is Martha Coakley of Massachusetts, whose lawsuits against big banks have unearthed important details about dubious mortgage practices.
Another is Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada. She filed a case against Morgan Stanley that was settled last year, generating as much as $40 million in monetary relief for borrowers. She also participated in a suit against Wells Fargo that resulted in $45 million in principal forgiveness for Nevadans. And she has a case pending against Bank of America.
Last month, Ms. Masto sued Lender Processing Services, the huge default and foreclosure processor that works behind the scenes for most large banks. With this case, she demonstrated how enlightening an in-depth study can be. The complaint, which came after a 14-month inquiry, contends that L.P.S. deceived consumers by committing widespread document execution fraud, misrepresenting its fees and making deceptive statements about its efforts to correct paperwork. Investigators interviewed former L.P.S. employees and customers and examined foreclosures the company had worked on.
“L.P.S. played a critical role in the deceptive foreclosure practices that have harmed Nevada homeowners and burdened Nevada courts,” the complaint said. Consumers have paid the price, it continued, “through bankruptcies, evictions and foreclosures that were predicated upon false, forged, fraudulent and/or inaccurate documents.”
…
Real Estate Markets
5 Events that Really Mattered for Housing in 2011 – and Beyond
By Jed Kolko | December 29, 2011
Government, the mortgage industry and forces of nature all shook the housing market in 2011. They had both an immediate impact and slow-burning effects, setting the stage for a bumpy 2012 with more foreclosures, political battles and local market risks.
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Are those high monthly nuts crowding out money left over to go to the movie theater?
Smart Spending
Thumbs Down: 2011 Saw Least Movie Tickets Sold Since 1995
By Brad Tuttle | @bradrtuttle | December 28, 2011
Reviews aside, it’s been a bad year at the movies. By the time 2011 comes to an end, ticket revenues are expected to be down 4.5% compared to 2010. This is despite today’s higher ticket prices: The average movie admission crossed the $8 mark for the first time ever in 2011.
U.S. consumers are known for embracing dumb movies, even when the economy’s in rough shape. But each year, and in 2011 especially, more and more people seem to give the modern-day movie-going experience a thumbs down review.
…
This is bad. Very bad.
Movies traditionally do well in recessions.
1995 was the “bottom” of the S&L disaster.
Maybe 50″ LED screens and Netflix have something to do with it?
I can’t understand why anyone would assume the Fed won’t keep interest rates super-low forever. Do other HBB posters find this puzzling?
Portfolio Strategy
The U.S. Government Bond Bubble (And What To Do About It)
Treasury bond prices will likely suffer a major decline in the next few years. Here are eight high-yielding stocks that are a smarter alternative for the income part of your portfolio.
By Michael Sivy | @MFSivy | December 27, 2011
The Federal Reserve has pumped a massive amount of money into the U.S. economy since 2008.
America’s finances are deteriorating. The Federal debt has increased by more than 50% over the past three years. New liabilities in 2011 totaled $1.3 trillion. And there is no prospect of a quick fix that would bring this snowballing debt under control. As a result, rating agencies have warned that the U.S. credit rating is at risk of a downgrade.
Nonetheless, U.S. Government bonds have been in a major bull market – some analysts are even calling it a bond bubble. Indeed, just as easy money produced a boom in technology stocks in the late 1990s and a housing bubble six or seven years later, a similar boom-and-bust cycle now appears to be under way for government bonds. Prices of long-term Treasuries are up as much as 30% since early this year. Why have such big gains occurred at a time when the finances of the U.S. government are getting so much worse? There are three reasons:
Extremely stimulative Fed policy. Ever since the banking crisis in 2008, the Federal Reserve has been pumping massive amounts of money into the U.S. economy. As a result, interest rates on 10-year Treasury bonds have dropped from 3.9% in 2010 to around 2% today. And since bond prices rise as interest rates fall, Fed policy alone would be enough to create a bond boom.
…
Luckily U.S. policymakers do not face social unrest due to housing woes.
Oh wait…
Jan. 5, 2012, 10:01 p.m. EST
China faces social unrest from housing woes
But Beijing likely to keep a lid on serious opposition
By Chris Oliver, MarketWatch
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — Irate Chinese homeowners are among the top policy concerns for Beijing this year, according to analysts who say weakening house prices are stoking serious tensions.
Financial author and CSLA Singapore managing director Fraser Howie calls it the “real unknown” of 2012, as there’s no track record of how this newly emerged class of homeowners would react if the current softening in residential housing prices turns into a prolonged decline.
“It’s too difficult to analyze what’s going to happen,” he said, citing the difficulty in sourcing accurate statistics on the property market and the short history of property ownership in China.
For the most part, property owners have never had to deal with falling prices since the 1998 policy change that helped what’s now viewed as the launch of the modern era of private-home ownership in China.
City University of Hong Kong political scientist Joseph Cheng agrees, saying that “China’s middle class are not used to business cycles yet.”
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Occupy protesters in Vegas plan to take over foreclosed homes
9:00 PM, Jan. 6, 2012
LAS VEGAS — The Occupy Wall Street movement is preparing to take over Las Vegas’ foreclosure-ravaged neighborhoods.
Southern Nevada Occupy leaders said protesters planned to gather at foreclosed homes across the Las Vegas valley on Saturday to urge Wall Street banks to negotiate with mortgage borrowers.
The protesters said that home ownership is a fundamental right.
…
That would be 50% of LV or more. Even for free, who wants to live in Vegas?
This goes with my new motto: OhbaHma hates black people…..he will never say a word about this:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Students-charged-in-bus-attack/-/1637132/7658614/-/lq83w9/-/index.html
What would you want him to say about that?
I rather think he doesn’t identify with folks who ride a bus anyway.
Blue:
Well maybe 13 year olds beating someone unconscious sets race relations back 50 years and to beat a white girl that savagely over a seat we might as well bring back slavery
I wonder if their parents are on section 8? cant have a felon living in your house and still be eligible.
make it hurt real bad for the parent put you kid in juvie till 18 or make him man up and plead guilty so we can keep a roof over our heads…..
Fair is Fair!
The San Diego housing market serial bottom callers are trying their luck again. So far they have been wrong every time at calling a current year bottom in prices, but maybe this year will be when their luck turns around.
U-T EconoMeter Preview
Home prices to rise, EconoMeter panelists say
They were way off in 2011
Written by Roger Showley
11:31 a.m., Jan. 6, 2012
Last week, our U-T EconoMeter panel issued their predictions for 2012. This week we turn to housing. As background, the consensus of eight panelists last year was a slight rise from $335,000 to $336,250 (November medians) and ranged from $300,000 predicted by Marney Cox to $350,000 by Alan Gin, Gary London and Dan Seiver. The actual November 2011 median, as reported by DataQuick, was $315,000.
Get a preview of this year’s predictions, offer your own in our online straw poll and then read all the answers, posting at 6 a.m. Saturday.
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Polls »
Will San Diego median home prices rise in 2012?
Yes
No
Results
Polls »
What will be the median in November 2012? (Current, Nov. 2011, median stands at $315,000.)
Less than $300,000
$300,000-$315,000
$315,001-$330,000
More than $330,000
Only one third of the reader poll respondents agreed with the consensus forecast of the ‘experts’ that San Diego real estate prices will go up this year.
$335,000 to …$315,000.
(315/335-1)*100 = -6%, which sounds like a small loss until you apply it against still-bloated San Diego home price levels.
By contrast, notice how the median price level in San Diego dropped by $20K? I guess that is no big deal for rich Californians to lose $20K in a falling knife real estate investment.
Bill Maher must be smashing all the furniture in his place right about now.
Bill Maher Bashes Tim Tebow on Twitter
By Andrew Mindzak, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Dec 28, 12:46 am EST
While most of us were spending time with our families during Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, Bill Maher was busy hate - tweeting against.
After the Denver Broncos were manhandled 40-14 by the Buffalo Bills on Christmas Eve, Maher tweeted, “Wow, Jesus just f**ked #TimTebow bad! And on Xmas Eve! Somewhere … Satan is tebowing, saying to Hitler “Hey, Buffalo’s killing them.” Tebow didn’t exactly have the best game of his career on Saturday against the Bills, completing only 13 of 30 passes for 185 yards along with four interceptions. Tebow tweeted after the game, “Tough game today but what’s most important is being able to celebrate the birth of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Merry Christmas everyone GB2.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10757275 - 171k -
I have always loved comedy, even if it’s at my own expense. If it’s funny, it’s funny.
Maher doesn’t hit my funny bone. And his political slant gets old mainly because………..wait for it………..he’s not funny.
George Carlin was funny.
For the record I don`t think Jesus liking Tim Tebow had anything to do with the Broncos winning that game. It probably had a lot more to do with Jesus not liking Ben Roethlisberger.
Or perhaps it had something to do with a Pittsburgh safety not being allowed to play at a mile high due to sickle cell trait.
http://www.inquisitr.com/175719/ryan-clark-pittsburgh-steelers-sickle-cell-trait/
That and a missed tackle.
Game Center
Hail Tebow
Tim Tebow threw an 80-yard TD pass to Demaryius Thomas in OT to seal his first NFL playoff victory. Read
http://www.nfl.com/ - 181k -
Xfinity
Sports
Tebow Pulls Off a Miracle
QB adds to legend on first play of overtime. Steelers Stunned
Maher is funny. He is one of the few independent thinkers.
What is the one major similarity here to the RE market?
http://www.platts.com/RSSFeedDetailedNews/RSSFeed/Oil/3856684
Am I the only one who is utterly flabbergasted by the Fed’s proposed taxpayer-funded revitalization of the zombie GSEs in yet another housing market rescue attempt? You would think they would have at least waited for the SEC charges against former Fannie and Freddie executives to wash through the MSM before rolling out this proposal.
Economic Beat | SATURDAY, DECEMBER 31, 2011
Suit Points to Fannie, Freddie
By GENE EPSTEIN
The SEC’s civil charges against six former executives reveals the staggering magnitude of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s mortgage misdeeds.
Talk about ironies. The housing boom-and-bust that brought the 2008-09 recession has prompted cries to punish the guilty, more often from the left wing than from the right. Enter the Securities and Exchange Commission, chaired by the Obama-appointed Mary Schapiro. On Dec. 16, the SEC announced civil indictments against six former executives of two corporations cited mainly by Republicans as the mortgage villains—government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Without necessarily meaning to do so, the SEC has made an authoritative case that the two GSEs did in fact play a key role in financing the high-risk mortgages that fueled the housing bubble. To begin with, the facts and figures posted on the SEC Website are the fruit of that agency’s unique subpoena power. And, more important, Fannie and Freddie have themselves mainly affirmed that the SEC’s factual statements are valid, as part of a “Non-Prosecution Agreement” the agency made with the two mortgage giants.
The SEC is seeking “disgorgement of ill-gotten gains with interest” from the six former Fannie and Freddie executives, based on the allegation that they “caused the federal mortgage firms to materially misstate their holdings of subprime mortgages loans….”
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Obama’s Consumer Financial-Protection Trump Card
By Simon Johnson
Jan 8, 2012 4:03 PM PT
Simon Johnson, who served as chief economist at the International Monetary Fund in 2007 and 2008, is a professor of entrepreneurship at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management.
The biggest news for the Republican presidential-nomination race last week wasn’t the outcome of the Iowa caucuses but the recess appointment of Richard Cordray to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Unless you think Rick Santorum can scale up in record time to run a national campaign, the Iowa results just confirmed what we already knew: Mitt Romney is likely to face President Barack Obama in November. The Cordray appointment indicates that the president sees things the same way, and has decided to focus the fight on one of Romney’s vulnerabilities: his views on the financial sector.
The president, of course, can’t make an issue out of too- big-to-fail banks because his administration has helped to solidify their grip on the financial system. The 2010 Dodd-Frank financial-reform law effectively failed to limit lenders’ size, freeing the biggest institutions to grow ever larger. Mega-banks will be harder to deal with, both as healthy institutions and if they run into financial trouble.
Fortunately for Obama, it doesn’t appear that Romney has any objection to “anything goes” in terms of bank size, and isn’t likely to try to make too-big-to-fail an election issue.
Obama will also be reluctant to raise the matter of campaign contributions by bank executives and the political influence that gives them. Both he and Romney are likely to garner roughly equal amounts of cash from the people who run, or benefit from, large financial companies.
…
Jan. 7, 2012, 11:11 p.m. EST
QE not likely now, given data: Fed’s Bullard
By Greg Robb, MarketWatch
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — More bond purchases, otherwise known as quantitative easing, are not likely at least in the short term because the economy seems on more solid ground, St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank President James Bullard said Saturday.
“I don’t think it [QE] is very likely right now because the tone of the data has been very strong right now,” Bullard told reporters after a speech at the American Economic Association meeting.
“We already have an easy policy, and the economy is improving, and so we can probably wait and see for now,” Bullard said.
Bullard said he was encouraged by the December employment report that showed a drop in the unemployment rate to near a three-year low of 8.5%.
“I thought the jobs report was encouraging. Hopefully it is harbinger of more robust activity,” he said.
Bullard said he thinks Wall Street is too gloomy about the outlook.
“I think forecasters are a bit too pessimistic about the U.S. economy,” he said. “The recession has been over for fair amount of time. It is a logical point in the recovery where you would expect somewhat more rapid growth and somewhat better jobs market, so we’ll see if that is what happens.”
…
“you would expect somewhat more rapid growth and somewhat better jobs market, so we’ll see if that is what happens.”
Is this guy really an economist, or is he another horse show judge who was a college dorm-mate of someone?
Which of these 1832 sq ft 4br/3ba San Diego homes do you think will sell the fastest? (Note they are identical floor plans, walking distance apart, in the same neighborhood.)
It looks like the last time the Lofty Trails home was snapped up at a foreclosure auction, in 1992, it took five years for the flipper to sell it, and he barely made a dime in capital gains.
Maybe this time is different?
P.S. Wifey sez the Silver Buckle home has been on the market for a lot longer than 2 days — at least since last spring. I guess pricing $86K above the comps hasn’t worked for them, just yet.
$432,900
15741 Lofty Trail Dr Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127
Beds: 4
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.: 1,832
$/Sq. Ft.: $236
Lot Size: 4,922 Sq. Ft.
Property Type: Residential, Detached
Style: Contemporary
Stories: 2
View: Mountains/Hills
Year Built: 1988
Community: High Country West
County: San Diego
MLS#: 110060748
Source: SANDICOR
Status: Active
Active
This listing is for sale and the sellers are accepting offers.
On Redfin: 67 days
Property History for 15741 Lofty Trail Dr
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jan 07, 2012 Price Changed $432,900 – SANDICOR #110060748
Dec 03, 2011 Price Changed $447,900 – SANDICOR #110060748
Nov 02, 2011 Listed (Active) $459,000 – SANDICOR #110060748
Oct 27, 2011 Sold (Public Records)
This home was sold at a foreclosure
Foreclosure auction. $393,053 – Public Records
Jul 23, 2007 Sold (Public Records) $554,000 9.4%/yr Public Records
Feb 24, 2000 Sold (Public Records) $284,000 14.1%/yr Public Records
Jun 05, 1997 Sold (Public Records) $198,500 0.1%/yr Public Records
Jul 31, 1992 Sold (Public Records) Abnormal Transaction . $197,500 -100.0%/yr Public Records
Jul 31, 1992 Sold (Public Records) $220,000 -0.6%/yr Public Records
Jun 26, 1989 Sold (Public Records) $224,000 32.2%/yr Public Records
Mar 31, 1988 Sold (Public Records) $158,500 – Public Records
—
$519,000
11280 Silver Buckle Way San Diego, CA 92127
Beds: 4
Baths: 2.5
Sq. Ft.: 1,832
$/Sq. Ft.: $283
Lot Size: 4,100 Sq. Ft.
Property Type: Residential, Detached
Stories: 2
Year Built: 1987
Community: High Country West
County: San Diego
MLS#: 120001127
Source: SANDICOR
Status: Active
Active
This listing is for sale and the sellers are accepting offers.
On Redfin: 2 days
Property History for 11280 Silver Buckle Way
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jan 06, 2012 Listed (Active) $519,000 – SANDICOR #120001127
Aug 19, 2003 Sold (Public Records) $475,000 12.9%/yr Public Records
May 31, 1996 Sold (Public Records) $197,500 – Public Records
It amazes me the value of these two near-identical properties could have diverged so much since 1996-1997, when they both sold at almost the same price at the last time the San Diego real estate market bottomed out which, in turn, was 5-6 years after the end of the 1990-1991 recession.
$432,900
Property History for 15741 Lofty Trail Dr
Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Jun 05, 1997 Sold (Public Records) $198,500 0.1%/yr Public Records
………………………………………………………………….
$519,000
11280 Silver Buckle Way San Diego, CA 92127
May 31, 1996 Sold (Public Records) $197,500 – Public Records
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P.S. Homes like these were selling for $540,000 or so back in 2004.
“Jul 23, 2007 Sold (Public Records) $554,000 9.4%/yr Public Records”
I suspect that was near the peak bubble price for the comps…
($432,900/$554,000-1)*100 = -22% — a pretty good San Diego housing market haircut, though I have seen better.
I suspect that was near the peak bubble price for the comps…
I thought SD was one of the first markets to peak—in late 2005? Shouldn’t a 2007 sale have reflected some declines already?
I’ve been contemplating the political ramifications of this Fed gambit. I suspect it is a CYA measure, designed to obscure the origins of the housing bubble in Alan Greenspan’s policies back in the early 2000s and before. J6P doesn’t grasp the long and variable lags which precede the impact of Fed policy actions, and hence is apt to interpret the present housing situation as due to recent policy measures.
If Congress and the executive branch ignore the Fed’s suggestions, the Fed can blame ongoing problems in the housing market on a failure to adopt their present recommendations, rather than due to loose monetary policy a decade ago which led to bubble formation. And if their measures are adopted, Wall Street will succeed to dump their housing market gambling losses on the U.S. tax base, greatly indebting Wall Street to the Fed.
ft dot com
January 8, 2012 10:52 pm
Calls for US taxpayers to bear housing costs
By Shahien Nasiripour in Washington
US Federal Reserve policymakers are increasingly urging fiscal authorities to consider reducing distressed borrowers’ loan balances, a politically fraught position for a central bank that has long sought to distance itself from fiscal policy.
William Dudley, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, said on Friday that taxpayers and mortgage bond investors should shoulder the cost of reducing borrowers’ loan principal. Sarah Bloom Raskin, a member of the Fed’s board of governors, added on Saturday that forcing leading banks to cut mortgage principal as a penalty for poor practices was an option “that should stay on the table”.
The calls come as the Fed confronts dwindling options to jumpstart a weak US economic recovery that appears to be stalling because of problems in the nation’s property market. Home prices are falling, property seizures are rising, lending and refinancing remain subdued and delinquencies have barely budged more than two years after the recovery officially began in the summer of 2009.
“Housing markets have shown little sign of improvement so far in this recovery,” Elizabeth Duke, one of the Fed’s five sitting governors, said last week. “This stands in sharp contrast to the important role that the housing sector has typically played in propelling economic recoveries.”
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