Bits Bucket for January 10, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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REVIEW & OUTLOOK
JANUARY 10, 2012
The Fed’s Housing Politics
The central bank compromises its independence with rank electioneering.
These columns have defended the independence of the Federal Reserve from attacks on the right and left, but after last week the central bank is on its own. It’s impossible to defend the Fed’s rank electioneering as it lobbies for more political and taxpayer intervention in the housing market—just in time for the election campaign.
This extraordinary political intrusion came in the form of a 26-page paper that the Fed sent to Capitol Hill last Wednesday, without invitation, graciously offering what Chairman Ben Bernanke called a “framework” for “thinking about certain issues and tradeoffs.” He was underselling his document. The paper is a clear attempt to provide intellectual cover for politicians to spend more taxpayer money to support housing prices.
…
Just think if the Fed/central bank/monetary policy were even more closely controlled by politicians, like many want. Then we’d really see charges of electioneering, etc.
“…if the Fed/central bank/monetary policy were even more closely controlled by politicians…”
What evidence do you have to suggest they are not closely controlled?
What evidence do you have that they are?
“It’s impossible to defend the Fed’s rank electioneering as it lobbies for more political and taxpayer intervention in the housing market—just in time for the election campaign.
…
The paper is a clear attempt to provide intellectual cover for politicians to spend more taxpayer money to support housing prices.”
Fed faces opposition on housing proposal
WASHINGTON | Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:05pm EST
(Reuters) - The Federal Reserve on Tuesday drew fire from conservatives for its recent policy proposals on the downtrodden housing sector that the critics argued represented an overreach by the central bank.
Two Republican senators lashed out at the Fed’s “white paper” on housing, which suggested other officials should consider giving failed mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac a bigger role in turning the market around.
The protests mark a rekindling of anti-central bank sentiment that reached fever pitch when the Fed launched its second round of bond buying in late 2010. At that time, conservatives accused the central bank of sowing the seeds for future inflation, though recent trends show price pressures ebbing.
…
Bloomberg
Republican Senators Criticize Fed Recommendations on Housing
January 10, 2012, 7:57 PM EST
By Caroline Salas Gage
Jan. 10 (Bloomberg) — Republican Senators Orrin Hatch of Utah and Bob Corker of Tennessee criticized the Federal Reserve for overstepping its role by making policy recommendations on how the U.S. government should try new ways to spur the housing market.
Hatch, the top-ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said the housing study sent by Chairman Ben S. Bernanke to Congress last week, along with recent Fed speeches, “intrudes too far into fiscal policy advice and advocacy.” Corker said New York Fed President William C. Dudley’s suggestion last week that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reduce the principal of the loans they guarantee was “absolutely egregious.”
Fed officials have been increasing their calls for government measures to boost the housing market after record-low interest rates failed to revive borrowing. Bernanke last week sent lawmakers a staff study discussing policy options to help boost the housing market that said Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac might have to bear greater losses to stoke a broader recovery.
“I believe that it is important to the interests of the Federal Reserve, including the independence of monetary policy, that the Fed refrain from providing any hint of activism regarding what are clearly fiscal policy choices,” Hatch said in a letter to Bernanke dated today. “I worry that the unveiling of your staff’s housing white paper, to ‘provide a framework for thinking’ treads too far into fiscal policy, and runs the risk of being perceived as advocacy for particular policy options.”
…
January 10, 2012, 4:09 PM
Senate Republicans Criticize Fed on Housing Advocacy
By Alan Zibel
Top Federal Reserve officials came under fire on Capitol Hill on Tuesday as Republicans criticized the central bank for advocating more steps to aid the battered U.S. housing market.
In a letter sent to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R., Utah) criticized a paper published by the Fed last week that called for more action to stabilize the troubled sector of the economy. The paper, an unusual step for the Fed, came as officials at the central bank have worried that millions of Americans can’t refinance their home loans and take advantage of low interest rates engineered by the central bank.
However, Hatch argued that the Fed shouldn’t move so aggressively into housing policy. Publishing a paper and advocating policy positions on housing oversteps the central bank’s mandates of keeping unemployment and inflation low, wrote Hatch, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee.
“I believe that it is important to the interests of the Federal Reserve, including the independence of monetary policy, that the Fed refrain from providing any hint of activism regarding what are clearly fiscal policy choices,” Hatch wrote. “I am sure that the Fed would not appreciate a white paper from Congress outlining how to think about and execute monetary policy.”
…
Not only does Obamacare closely resemble Romneycare, but one of Romney’s economics advisors recommends a housing policy that this commentator suggests would work well for Obama.
I can’t wait for Obamney’s next term in office to begin.
Mass refinancing: The ‘biggest thing’ Obama can do without Congress
Posted by Ezra Klein at 09:28 AM ET, 01/10/2012
From 2001 to 2003, Glenn Hubbard served as President George W. Bush’s chief economist. Today, he’s dean of Columbia University’s School of Business and one of Mitt Romney’s top economic advisers. But right now, the candidate who could most benefit from his advice is President Obama.
Hubbard is an advocate for using Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to set off a nationwide wave of mortgage refinancing. In a paper co-authored with Columbia economist Christopher Mayer, Hubbard estimates that more than 75 percent of the homeowners with 30-year mortgages backed by Fannie or Freddie are paying interest rates higher than 5 percent. But for the past two years, interest rates have been closer to 4 percent. That means tens of millions of Americans are paying more than they need to every single month.
Some of these homeowners have good reason to resist refinancing. They plan to move soon, or they lied on their initial mortgage application, or they can’t afford the up-front costs. Some have been scared off of new financial products by the events of the past few years. But many simply don’t follow the month-to-month gyrations of interest rates. Others are deterred by conditions set down by Fannie and Freddie — although those have been substantially eased over the past few months, albeit with little fanfare.
Those homeowners represent one of the president’s few remaining opportunities to help a substantial number of Americans. That’s because a major push on refinancing is one of the few policies the Obama administration could accomplish without the help of Congress.
…
“The paper is a clear attempt to provide intellectual cover for politicians to spend more taxpayer money to support housing prices.”
… so as to protect the banks.
Protecting the banks, it’s all about protecting the banks. The Fed is the CENTRAL BANK and it has a mandate it to protect the financial system from collapse. And they will do whatever it takes, try any tactic they can dream up, in an effort to accomplish this. Same goes with Europe.
Keep this in mind and it will all make sense.
No banker left behind!
Ry Cooder has recently released a song called “No Banker Left Behind.” And, wouldn’t ya know it, I’m in training to become a deejay on my beloved community radio station, KXCI.
I’m looking at putting together a “housing bubble goes bust” set. Ry Cooder’s song will be in it, and I’m also going to include Nick Lowe’s latest, “House For Sale.” I need two more songs. Got any ideas?
I’m tempted to put something in by the band Real Estate, but ya know what? AFAIK, they don’t have any housing-related songs.
House Where Nobody Lives, by Tom Waits?
I’m looking at putting together a “housing bubble goes bust” set.
Press Release
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Featuring:
Shorn in the USA
Maybe It Appraised
(Lit) Candle in the Bin
Another Kick in the Ba!!s
Voodoo (economics) Child
The Last Drop is the Steepest
The First Time Ever I Sold Your Place
How Deep is your House
My Sweet Landlord
Drywall Keeps Falling on my Head
Return to Lender
Wish Dues Were Beer
We Got No Meat
We Will Cold-Cock You
Turn on the Water
A Whiter Shade in Jail
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More Than a Reaming
Man! I feel like a Moron
Que Sera, Sera (whatever will be will bite)
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Ain’t Too Proud to Bail
Available exclusively at WallMrt or by phone. International call center operators standing by. Manufactured in China (PRC). Artwork: CalifornWorld Design, Hong Kong. Inserts printed in Malaysia. Recorded at RedWhite&Blues Studio, Mumbi, India using contract musicians, singers and production crew. Mixed and Mastered by Lakshman (Cracker) Priyadharshana, Capital Studios, Colombo, Sri Lanka. Copyright 2010 American Patriot Productions INC, Cayman Islands.
Disclaimer: Purchasing this product releases manufacturer/distributor from any and all liability of, but not limited to, manufacturer’s use of child labor, unlawful discharges into the environment of hazardous materials or product found to contain any toxic materials including lead, heavy–metals, mercury, MSG, bio hazards, drywall residue or formaldehyde. Wash hands thoroughly after each product handling. Seal CD case with included duct tape strip when not in use. Avoid touching face with hands. Always cough or sneeze into bend of elbow.
16 Tons, by Ernie Ford.
How about a little Diana Ross:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIkPH_L1JfM
“Pink Houses” by John Cougarmellonheadcamp.
“And there’s people
And more people
What do they know, know, know?
Go to work in some high rise
And vacation down at the Gulf of Mexico!
Ooh yeah
And there’s winners
And there’s losers
And it ain’t no big deal
Because the simple man pays for the thrills, the bills,
And the pills that kill.
But ain’t that America, for you and me?”
“Jolly Banker”
“Just give me back two
For the one I lent you”
“Pretty Boy Floyd (The Outlaw)”
“Some will rob you with a six-gun
And some with a fountain pen…”
“Que Sera, Sera (whatever will be will bite)”
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-08 10:46:34
Doris Day or Doris Don`t Pay
Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The Deadbeat’s can live for free
Que Sera, Sera
When I went house shopping
I asked my Realtor what lies ahead
Are there foreclosures, when will they pay?
Here’s what my Realtor said.
Que Sera, Sera,
The Deadbeat’s will live for free
The future’s not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
Now I have children, there almost grown
They ask their father, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.
Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The Deadbeat’s will live for free
Que Sera, Sera
“Pleasant Valley Sunday” recorded by The Monkees.
BTW, Slim, I can’t recall what company sponsors the UM Excess Major Medical coverage plan but it is available to Alumni Association members. I’ll have to get back to you on that.
BTW, Slim, I can’t recall what company sponsors the UM Excess Major Medical coverage plan but it is available to Alumni Association members. I’ll have to get back to you on that.
Thank you! Might be worth joining the Alumni Association for.
“Oh! Susanna” (researched it)
I’m looking at putting together a “housing bubble goes bust” set. Ry Cooder’s song will be in it, and I’m also going to include Nick Lowe’s latest, “House For Sale.” I need two more songs. Got any ideas?
You could do worse than Richard Thompson’s “Money Shuffle”:
http://www.richardthompson-music.com/song_o_matic.asp?id=618
I love kittens and little babies
Can’t you see that’s the guy I am
Your money is so safe with me
You never met such an honest man
Glossies on my office wall
The rich and famous, I know them all
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
I’ve got you right there where I want you
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
Can’t find your money if you want to
Stock market going through the roof now
So rich I’ll never add it up now
I’ve got your savings here somewhere
Here at Warbrook and Jones it’s all tradition
We never pimp and we don’t hustle
If you’ll just bend over a little
I think you’ll feel my financial muscle
Spread it wide, wide as you can
To get the full benefit of my plan
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
I’ve got you right there where I want you
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
Can’t find your money if you want to
My God, the market’s in a free fall
I’ll save my arse and skip the country
Wish the hell I knew what I was doing
This year, think I’ll skip Monte
One tires of the same old social scene
With all the problems in the world today
They’ll notice if my bonus is obscene
Spread it wide, wide as you can
To get the full benefit of my plan
Amended last verse and chorus:
O how sublime - it’s sub prime time
One man’s junk’s another man’s triple A
If you need a little refuge for your pension fund
Lucky you, I’ll send some jewels your way
Spread it wide, wide as you can
To get the full benefit of my plan
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
I’ve got you right there where I want you
Come on and do the Money Shuffle
Can’t find your money if you want to
I hear the sound of distant thunder
AIG and Lehmans going under
Will I get my bonus, I wonder?
Frank’s Wild Years by Tom Waits.
When we grew up and bought our houses
There were certain bankers
Who would hurt the owners in any way they could
By pouring their derision
Upon anything we did
Exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the victims
We don’t need no mortgage payments
We don’t need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the courtroom
Banker, leave those beats alone
Hey, Banker, leave those beats alone
All in all, you’re just another brick in the wall
All in all, you’re just another brick in the wall
“Time to go.”
“Wrong do it again!”
“If you don’t pay your rent, you can’t have any pudding, how can you have any pudding if you don’t pay your rent!”
“You! Yes, you! behind three years on your payments, stand still laddie!”
Now we’re talking.
Artist, Album, Song
James McMurty, “Childish Things”, We Don’t Make It Here
Neil Young, from “Living With War”, The Restless Consumer
John Lee Hooker, “Black Man Blues”, House Rent Boogie
Dan Hicks and His Hot Licks, “Where’s The Money”, Where’s The Money
Pink Floyd, “Dark Side of The Moon”, Money
“James McMurty, “Childish Things”, We Don’t Make It Here ”
Title is actually “We Can’t Make it Here”. Great tune. I would suggest Warren Zevon’s “Down in the Mall” from the album Transverse City:
“We’re buyin’ CDs and we’re buyin’ lingerie
We’ll put it on a charge account we’re never gonna pay”
Jeff! LOL!
Doesn’t seem to be electioneering. The Fed wants the Gov to give the banks more support.
More like pandering for another taxpayer-funded bailout of Megabank, Inc…
Factbox: Fed doves look to spur housing, hawks balk
By Ann Saphir
CHICAGO | Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:14pm EST
(Reuters) - Federal Reserve officials are divided over the need for more accommodation to ensure the economic recovery gains enough velocity to pull free from its stop and start slog, despite rock-bottom interest rates for more than three years and $2.3 trillion in bond purchases designed to stimulate growth.
Some Fed officials see the persistently dismal housing sector as the key culprit in the slow recovery, and are pushing for targeted policies to boost the sector. Those on the central bank’s hawkish wing warn that more easing is at best ineffective and at worst could spark inflation.
The following is a look at where each stands on a scale of 1 to 5, with “1″ signifying doves most likely to support further monetary easing, and “5″ representing hawks most likely to oppose it.
…
Time for another housing bailout?
Posted by Scott Van Voorhis
January 9, 2012 05:59 AM
That’s what Ben Bernanke appears to be suggesting.
The Federal Reserve recently fired off a white paper to Congress chock full of ideas for stabilizing the housing market, Bloomberg reports.
While job growth has picked up, the housing market is still headed in the opposite direction, threatening the economy as a whole, the Fed contends.
More than $7 trillion in housing equity has vanished - more than half of what was on the books in 2006 before the housing bubble burst. Overall, prices have fallen 33 percent since then, the Fed notes in its report.
Fortunately, no one is talking about home buyer tax credits anymore - one of the most disastrous economic gimmicks of modern times.
But the Fed is pushing for a big ramp up in the conversion of foreclosed homes to rentals. The idea is help relieve the downward pressure on home prices, only expected to intensify as another 1 million shuttered homes hits the market this year alone.
…
“Buy now or be priced out forever” — Unknown, 2005
Yeah, none of the important players in the government or the financial sector were pushing to “stabalize” the market when prices were zooming up out of control. Too much money to be made pushing ever greater levels of debt.
“I can wait forever, I’ve got time” — George Harrison, 1966
But the Fed is pushing for a big ramp up in the conversion of foreclosed homes to rentals. The idea is help relieve the downward pressure on home prices, only expected to intensify as another 1 million shuttered homes hits the market this year alone.
Here in Tucson, we already have a 16% rental vacancy rate. So, adding more rental houses to the market will only make things worse.
Lease now or be priced out forever!
How could they possibly reinflate the housing market, short of 1% interest, EZ Qualify, No Appraisal, NINJA loans?
The scary thing is that they might actually try that.
No matter how absurd, improbable or downright idiotic a bailout proposal might be, the powers that be will try it. The politicians are very heavily influenced by the FIRE sector. The financial sector believes it is the cornerstone which allows the rest of the economy to exist.
Back in 2007, they started talking about government bailouts. I thought it was too crazy. They went in tentatively at first, then with gusto. If you ever wanted to know how a Goldman Sachs CEO would design bailouts of Wall Street, now you know. Hank Paulson, Treasury Secretary, and former Goldman Sachs CEO, crafted the original bailouts.
I recall hearing a real estate executive saying that if only the government would push interest rates down to 4%, real estate would be fixed. I thought, “That’s crazy.” They’ve been doing that.
Matt Taibbi on what the next act in the bailout play might be:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/attorneys-general-settlement-the-next-big-bank-bailout-20111005
IMHO the problem is that it’s easy to camouflage another bailout for bankers as a much more populist program to bail out borrowers. Any program to “help people out” by helping them to continue to make payments is in reality a program to help the people who made or bought the loans in the first place. Considering how upside down they are on their houses, many FBs would be best served by going getting foreclosed upon (and going through bankruptcy if the loan is a recourse one). Keeping people hanging onto an asset that has a negative net worth more than their annual incomes is no favor.
Any program to “help people out” by helping them to continue to make payments is in reality a program to help the people who made or bought the loans in the first place.
Keeping people hanging onto an asset that has a negative net worth more than their annual incomes is no favor.
Plus positive infinity! Thank you, Jim A!
How could they possibly reinflate the housing market, short of 1% interest, EZ Qualify, No Appraisal, NINJA loans?
The scary thing is that they might actually try that.
Ya know what - if rents keep rising and credit is that cheap, I’m jumping in. What would there be to lose?
I’m starting to get jealous of those folks who bought with 103% financing and then got to live rent-free for years.
And all this time I have been dutifully paying my rent.
Fortunately, no one is talking about home buyer tax credits anymore - one of the most disastrous economic gimmicks of modern times.
Home buyer tax credits are alive and well. We just qualified for a 15% mortgage interest CREDIT (dollar for dollar, not a deduction - the other 85% is still deductible).
I know it sounds nutty, but there it is.
“We just qualified for a 15% mortgage interest CREDIT”
I had no idea about this! It’s called MCC for “mortgage credit certificate”. We bought our house in October of 2010. How does one go about applying for this?
I had no idea about this! It’s called MCC for “mortgage credit certificate”. We bought our house in October of 2010. How does one go about applying for this?
Not sure if MCC can be applied for retroactively (after you buy), but here it is offered by the Mayor’s Office of Housing.
There are certain qualifications (income limits, etc.) but they are not stringent. Worth looking into.
In our case (if we buy) it would be a straight up tax credit of almost 4K per year, at least for the first few years when we would be paying primarily interest.
In my mind it would be for setting aside for maintenance, not for increasing the amount we could afford per month.
It has been hard discussing numbers because everyone is so hooked on the how much per month thing. They all look at you crazy when you start talking about how much interest you’ll pay over the life of the loan.
And then, like zombies, everyone -practically in unison -brainlessly spouts, “but you can refinance!”.
Then I mention why would I ever refinance from a 4% loan? Do they really think interest rates are going to go lower at some point in the future?
And then they sheepishly answer, “uh, yeah, umm, you’re right”.
I have had this conversation so many times in the past few weeks that’s it is starting to feel bizarre.
This entire housing bubble really was (and still is) a psychological mania that has crept into everyone’s brain and scrambled their logic. Seemingly intelligent and well-educated people have been mindlessly repeating the memes that we have been fed for the past 10 years.
“Not sure if MCC can be applied for retroactively (after you buy), but here it is offered by the Mayor’s Office of Housing.”
OK, it’s a start. Since we bought at the end of October, we didn’t pay alot of interest, so it wouldn’t have mattered. This last year, 2011 is another matter. Would love to have 20% of 6000 back!
“Then I mention why would I ever refinance from a 4% loan? Do they really think interest rates are going to go lower at some point in the future?”
A year ago, I would have said the same thing. Today–I wouldn’t feel safe with any prediction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-10/republican-senators-criticize-fed-recommendations-on-housing.html
Good quotes from Tennessee Senator Bob Corker:
“Reducing the principal on home loans for borrowers who put no money down amounts to a massive wealth transfer from places like Tennessee, where most homeowners have borrowed responsibly, to places like California and New York, where exotic mortgages were widely used to finance a speculative housing boom,” Corker said in Nashville, Tennessee, before the Greater Nashville Association of Realtors, according to a statement from his office.
“It is absolutely egregious that the Federal Reserve would insert itself in this manner and ask people in Tennessee who played by the rules to bail out reckless borrowers in other parts of the country,” Corker said.
How quaint. This was never about economic justice. This was quite simply a bailout of the cronies who had taken the economy hostage. Or at least credibly threatened that they had taken the economy hostage. Wealth transfers from one group to another are minor considerations of the great unwashed.
Robert J. Samuelson: Frustrated Fed tries to prod other agencies to action
By ROBERT J. SAMUELSON | Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:00
WASHINGTON — Remember the glory days from the mid-1990s to the 2008 financial crisis when the Federal Reserve appeared infallible? Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan was the “maestro.” The Fed could, it seemed, prolong economic expansions and shorten slumps. From 1982 to 2007, there were only two mild recessions. Financial crises were defused. Recall how the collapse of the “tech bubble” in 2000 was contained.
Those days are gone. Despite the Fed’s dramatic interest-rate cuts and massive purchases of Treasury securities, the recovery lags even after Friday’s jobs report (payroll jobs: up 200,000; unemployment: down 0.2 percentage points to 8.5 percent). A desperate Fed is grasping at almost anything to stir the economy from its lethargy.
Evidence of the frustration surfaced in two actions this past week. On Tuesday, the Fed revealed that members of the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), its main decision-making body, would begin providing detailed forecasts of future interest rates. The next day, the Fed sent a 26-page report to Congress with suggestions on how to revive the ailing housing sector.
Neither move will much boost the economy. Both reflect the Fed’s impatience and desire not to be seen as passive.
$7 trillion value lost
…
Borrowing Ben enslaves our children so they too can pay grossly inflated prices for depreciating houses.
How long can Borrowing Ben keep the charade going?
As long as Obama and Romney are looked as the best candidates for next election.
To get an idea of how the “debt-doesn’t-really-matter” crowd thinks, Krugman is a good representative. He recently wrote this:
“That’s not to say that high debt can’t cause problems — it certainly can. But these are problems of distribution and incentives, not the burden of debt as is commonly understood. And as Dean says, talking about leaving a burden to our children is especially nonsensical; what we are leaving behind is promises that some of our children will pay money to other children, which is a very different kettle of fish.”
I was amazed by this. It’s the situation we have now, where one group of people owes money to another. Imagine this scenario times 10 or 50 or 100.
It seems that people like Krugman aren’t concerned with the quality of life of a population that has sold its soul to the company store, as long as the “company store” segment of that population continues to thrive.
I’m pretty sure I know which camp Krugman (das Kroogie) falls into in terms or debt holder or debtor.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/debt-is-mostly-money-we-owe-to-ourselves/
One more note: There was a fascinating article in a recent Economist about the various schools of economic thought: http://www.economist.com/node/21542174
They discussed “Market monetarists”, “Chartalists”, Austrian school, and Keynesian school of thought.
I do support out of the box thinking about economics. Keynes had some very interesting ideas. I’m guessing there are other ways to think about economics that are not yet guessed.
What many of these theories don’t address though is fair and equitable distribution of wealth. While the human sense of justice and fairness is hard to fully describe, it’s as real as a broken bone. Sitting at a mahogany desk, it’s easy to ponder money flows. But why is it that a trashman will get up, climb on the back of a trash truck at 4:00 AM in 35 degree rain and manhandle heavy bins of garbage to dump in the truck? He does it for money. How to equitably distribute money and credibly maintain a currency while still being able to pay people to carry out essential societal functions? And how to best improve the quality of life of the members of the society?
Up early today. Can’t wait to vote for Ron Paul in the NH primary. He is truly the best hope for this country to get back on track and shake up the
out of touch establishment Republican party.
Will be caucusing for Ron Paul four weeks from today in Colorado.
Occupy Ron Paul
I remember during the last election I spotted a healthy number of Ron Paul signs. I believe he’ll have good support in CNY.
Back in 2008, there were quite a few around Ron Paul Revolution signs in the neighborhoods near the University of Arizona. This year, I have yet to see any.
Methinks the young ‘uns aren’t too thrilled with the content of those newsletters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5rJI5e0jBU
I wouldn’t vote for him in a general election, but man o man I hope he wins.
He is the only guy out there who is willing and able to speak truth to power.
I’ll buy front row tickets to see a Paul-Obama debate.
You wouldn’t vote for him, but you hope he wins?? I don’t get it.
You wouldn’t vote for him, but you hope he wins?? I don’t get it.
I would like to see him win the Rep nomination. He is raising the level of discourse and saying things no one in power would previously utter. And that’s a good thing.
But I do not believe he would be a good president.
That makes no sense to me at all.
I wouldn’t vote for him in a general election, but man o man I hope he wins.
Are you trying to say you only hope he steers the discussion and that there is some but minimal impact on the status quo? Perhaps you like his ideas in some more moderate form? Or do you just like him because he appears to be speaking from the heart but his principles in general freak you out?
Are you trying to say you only hope he steers the discussion and that there is some but minimal impact on the status quo? Perhaps you like his ideas in some more moderate form? Or do you just like him because he appears to be speaking from the heart but his principles in general freak you out?
The far right (libertarians) and the far left (anarchists) almost meet on many issues.
So yes, I do hope he steers the discussion, and I believe he already is having an impact, which is great. I agree wholeheartedly on his view re the Fed and the military and imperialism. These are issues that have not really been addressed or questioned by the PTB.
But there are some major issues on which I really do not agree with RP. I may personally hate bureaucracy, but would not want to live in the US without OSHA and the EPA, for instance.
So I can agree with some of his positions, particularly the ones that have not previously been in the larger public discourse, while still being philosophically in a different boat altogether. It’s not that confusing, unless you don’t like to play in the gray areas between ideas and positions.
As another poster said: Ron Paul PLUS single payer health care. But that can’t really happen, right?
I’m not wasting my vote on Ron Paul. He just isn’t electable. I am voting for someone who can win. I am voting for the biggest lying piece of shit. Who has the best smile and nicest suit. I want that guy. Shitty change is what America will get.
All the pundits in 1980 said that about Reagan, “He isn’t electable”. But, I hate to use the quote “it was different then”,
yet it was. The same type of atmosphere during that era is happening now. Jimmy Carter was wrecking the economy just
as Obama and his fellow RINO republicans are now. History repeats itself.
“The same type of atmosphere during that era is happening now. Jimmy Carter was wrecking the economy just
as Obama and his fellow RINO republicans are now.”
Republican president Nixon left Jimmy Carter the same sh!t sandwich as GWB left Obama to eat. And Romney is blaming it on Obama, the same as Reagan blamed it on Carter.
History does indeed repeat itself!
Politico reports on the money-pigs:
“The pro-Romney super PAC Restore Our Future is placing $2.3 million worth of ads on the air in South Carolina … Between this and the news of pro-Gingrich Winning Our Future’s $3.4 million ad buy in South Carolina, the ad war in the Palmetto State is shaping up to be even uglier than it was in Iowa.”
If you think RP is going to change the retardican party, you’re going to be waiting a long time.
I don’t think anyone expects that, RAL. Even if Paul got the nomination, he’d be up against major resistance from both (lol) sides.
If he doesn’t get the nomination, I hope he does make an independent run and bugger up the Republican (actually neocon) farty. And I am a registered Republican. I’m going to vote for him anyway. And I’m going to shove that up the nose of every neocon party shill that calls me during the run-up to the election, urging me to vote for Romney. Ruck Fomney.
If RP were actually able to pull off and win his party’s nomination, I believe he would get elected. Keeping him out of the race is precisely what the retardicans/Corruptocrats are working towards.
“Keeping him out of the race is precisely what the retardicans/Corruptocrats are working towards.”
But he’s accomplished a lot. His ideas are out in the broad public realm, despite efforts to suppress them. Always remember that the one thing that can defeat armies and boatloads of money, is an idea. This is a man who really doesn’t need the limelight and who isn’t particularly power hungry, who really just wants to do what’s right by the country. I took note of alpha-sloth’s jab about the EPA and FDA. What difference do these agencies really make if citizens can now be detained without due process? If we’re under the thumb of global central bankers?
And despite what people say about the Aqua Buddha (his son, Rand), he fought a brave fight in the Senate against that movement to detain citizens without due process. I like the Aqua Buddha.
(Rand Paul) fought a brave fight in the Senate against that movement to detain citizens without due process.
Yes he did. And he was one of only 2 Republicans that voted to kill that provision in a failed amendment.
Sloth is focused on more important things. Worrying about who controls and dictates your financial future, as well as those of your descendants, is best left to the elite ivy league minds.
That’s why I’m all in for Romney.
Let’s go Status Quo!
Sigh. And ultimately it was a Democrat president who signed it into law.
Seriously, RAL, this Dem v Rep thing is the biggest. bore. ever. It’s a stupid little game made up to keep the people fighting amongst themselves. Two lousy sides of the same crappy coin. Don’t play it. Turn away from it. In the past couple of months or so, I’ve noticed folks here on the blog “reaching across the aisle” to each other, so to speak. Whatever your political affiliation, nothing is more important than basic freedoms and without those, we have nothing. SS, Medicare, EPA, Education, etc. NONE of these things matter without the basic freedoms and human rights like due process, free speech and protection from illegal search and seizure and will in fact go by the boards anyway.
“elite ivy league minds.”
Those “minds” are so diseased and rotted from all that panty-sniffing, on account of their brains are crawling with yeast infections, HPV and other assorted STDs they picked up from their own shorts.
It’s kind of like the days of old, when you had mad kings and emperors with their brains rotting from syphillis, ruling over the peons.
“I’m all in for Romney.”
LOL, I saw some clip of Romney in Iowa pressing the flesh. Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen, he had this fixed, predatory smirk on his puss, and his face sort of morphed into a Koren (old New Yorker cartoonist) character snout. And he had this robotic hand over hand type thing going on.
He looked so reptilian, you could almost wonder if there isn’t some truth to all that wild elitist shape-shifting stuff.
Sloth is focused on more important things.
Yes. Quite frankly, I do think the environment is more important than our banking system.
But I do think the banking system is important, which is why I want strong regulation of it, as well as of the environment. Otherwise the big boyz will ruin them both. As we have seen.
That’s the thing. I believe an overwhelming percentage of our population wants to protect the environment as well. I know I sure do, but not to the point that people starve on their own land. Remember that everything comes from Mother Earth. Conservation is the wise use of resources, not shrink wrapping them in perpetuity. I’m not saying that’s your position. My position is we need a balanced approach with punitive regulations against abuse. I think we as a nation shouldn’t be held hostage by a bunch of enviro-wackos with a limitless legal budget.
I also believe a group of foreign bankers shouldn’t control my future. Or yours.
+1.
And I, for one, are sick of this knee-jerk politcal sniping that assumes that if you’re for this candidate or that one, you agree with the rest of his positions.
I have a major disagreement with RP over illegal immigration. But, it’s more important to me to uphold the Constitution and Bill of Rights as the foundation and then go from there. And it’s more important to me to end the FED. And it’s more important to me to get rid of foreign entanglements and endless wars.
Give us Ron Paul’s platform but with the addition of Dennis Kucinich’s advocacy of a national single-payer health care system and that’s a platform worth supporting.
Surprising how much these two agree on despite them being on opposite ends of the alleged political spectrum.
“Seriously, RAL”
Major apologies to RAL. I saw the “R” in Rio’s handle on the next post and just assumed it was you. Again, major apologies. That was meant for Rio.
Give us Ron Paul’s platform but with the addition of Dennis Kucinich’s advocacy of a national single-payer health care system
OMG, talk about diametrically opposed agendas…
“But, it’s more important to me to uphold the Constitution and Bill of Rights as the foundation and then go from there. ”
I think you’d find that in President Ron Paul’s America, you’d have less recourse to your Constitutional rights, including the Bill of Rights.
That’s what states’ rights, which is what RP is really calling for, (especially in his opposition to the 14th amendment), are all about- ie having the federal government’s writ barely extend into the states, and in only a very few situations.
Well, guess what? Your rights under the Bill of Rights are protected by the federal government. If the federal government’s authority doesn’t extend into all sorts of ’state’ areas, then neither do your constitutional rights. That’s how it was in the Good Old Days. That’s why segregation and unfair legal proceedings were allowed to go on for so long. They were ’state issues’. The Constitution- and its rights- weren’t involved.
You may be buying a pig in a poke.
Palmetto…. if you haven’t noticed, I’ve abandoned the idea that we citizens will ever run the country through the polling place. RP is just a small step in the larger picture.
Retardicans and Corruptocrats? You’re point was what?
That was meant for Rio.
I really liked your post at first. I mean, reaching out and freedom and all…
But now I think it really sucked.
lol
Surprising how much these two agree on despite them being on opposite ends of the alleged political spectrum.
If you go far enough Left and far enough Right, you end up meeting.
you’d think the other candidates would at least co-opt some of his better ideas…esp after that fed report last week.
So far I have seen remarkably few campaign signs of the size you find in front yards and on roadway shoulders. But the early evening robo-calls are coming ever more frequently. Most hide their identify from caller ID, so of course they don’t get answered.
Does ANYBODY actually listen to a political robo-call?
Tsk. Identify = identity.
Yes. Dumb, clueless, self-entitled bluehairs.
Does ANYBODY actually listen to a political robo-call?
Yes. I hate to break it to you but Robo-calls are people folks.
Does ANYBODY actually listen to a political robo-call?
It’s one of the reasons I got rid of my land line.
Sometimes I listen to see how they’re spinning things and who’d doing it.
Not using blue rinse yet.
Forbes’ Francine McKenna outlines how regulators are joining in on the cover-up of what’s going on over at MF Global. Not pretty. Last night at the end of yesterday’s bit I also posted a late night story about the CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) also getting pulled into the maw of taint from MF Global. After hours trading had a loss of 5% due to rumors of the CME being broken up.
The Neverending MF Global Story: Regulators Block The Truth
From Page 2:
“When the trustees, the regulators, and the FBI finally stop looking under sofa cushions for the missing customer funds, they’ll have to start preparing lawsuits against third-parties. These potential “deep-pockets” include directors, JP Morgan, Jeffries, who underwrote the bond issue in August, and auditor PwC.
The Department of Justice will be forced to file criminal charges against someone.
What evidence will they base these lawsuits and criminal complaints on? Typically, a bankruptcy trustee hires a bankruptcy examiner to develop the theories and uncover the evidence used to hold executives, directors, bankers, underwriters, auditors and attorneys responsible for the failure of the firm and any fraud.
That hasn’t happened here. Why not?
Just look at the Refco bankruptcy, infamous predecessor firm of MF Global that also went down in flames from fraud and declared bankruptcy. Bankruptcy examiner Joshua Hochberg produced a bang-up report that pointed to several parties where recovery was possible. The trustee is still litigating on behalf of the estate, although it has not been easy. Criminal conduct was suspected from the start in the Refco case, too. Executives went to jail. That did not impede either making customers whole right away or going after third parties to make up the difference immediately.
Instead for MF Global we have a holding company Trustee more intent on protecting MF Global executives and a broker/dealer Trustee who’s had to be pushed kicking and screaming to respond to customers.
So much, also, for an investigation by the broker/dealer bankruptcy Trustee Giddens of what happened at MF Global by his law firm. Giddens’ firm is both customer and vendor to MF Global’s auditors, PwC and vendor to JP Morgan, MF Globals banker and biggest creditor. And so much for an investigation by the broker/dealer trustee that uses Ernst & Young as forensic accountants, the same firm, according to sources, that designed and implemented MF Global’s internal controls in time for their first Sarbanes-Oxley review and the firm that Randy McDonald, the MF Global CFO prior to current CFO and PwC alumni Henri Steenkamp, came from.
If it was only the SEC abetting the obfuscation of helpful information, I’d maybe accept an excuse that the volume of filings from broker dealers precludes the detailed review of the content or SEC action on any information, such as discrepancies in controls over segregated assets noted by an auditor, until it’s too late.
But the CFTC, who seems to be using leaks to the press to deflect attention from its own role and responsibility for keeping an eye on customers’ money, is doing it, too. There is no data regarding status of segregated customer assets for MF Global on the monthly required regulatory report for FCMs posted by the CFTC for September, 2011.
I asked the CFTC:
“Did MF Global submit their data as an FCM for September on time within your required timeframe? If the CFTC received the data on time, why did the CFTC decide not to publish MF Global’s numbers as of September 30th? The full report was posted to the website on November 10, after the October 31 bankruptcy, but the data is “as of” September 30 when the firm was still in business.”
The CFTC spokesperson would not go on record with his response. Based on our conversation and the policies published on the CFTC ebsite of handling this report, I’ve determined that the September 30, 2011 financial statement filings for all FCMs, FCM/BDs, and RFEDs were originally due October 26th. The CFTC gives itself 12 business days after the due date to publish. It appears that organizations were given additional time due to the Veteran’s Day holiday. The Commission sates that it “generally” publishes data for active FCMs only. MF Global Inc. declared bankruptcy October 31, 2011. At the time the September data were posted, MF Global Inc. was no longer an active FCM and therefore the firm and its data was deleted for the report.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemckenna/2012/01/09/the-neverending-mf-global-story-regulators-block-the-truth-from-coming-out/
“The Department of Justice will be forced to file criminal charges against someone.”
Forced? By whom?
Ultimately, forced by voters.
The public will demand a hanging hence the politicians will give them one.
And this does not necessairly mean the right people will be hung.
Don’t you get an intense sense of foreboding though when you realize how many institutions are actively and openly involved in this cover up?
I told my husband we’ve got to be close to another Lehman-like debacle. Between that and the FHA and Freddie Mac announcing people w/o income can stay in their homes for up to a year, they’ve jumped the shark. Surely the level of desperation currently being utilized to keep the balls in the air indicates just how close to capitulation the Ponzi is.
I think the wheels will be coming off before the end of 2012.
I think the wheels will be coming off before the end of 2012.
I think that the political wheels of the financial crisis will start falling off early next year. Sort of like Watergate.
The Nixon camp kept that one from blowing up until after the 1972 election. And then wouldn’t you know, in early 1973 the thing started spinning out of control. Starting with Alexander Butterfield revealing the existence of the taping system.
I think the wheels will be coming off before the end of 2012.
And not just here, but in the whole world.
Jon Corzine alread has been sued by one set of farmers. I think Missouri. I could be wrong about the state. Celente made his gold purchases through them and took delivery at the end of the year every year. When TSHTF They called him up w/a margin call for gold he’d already paid for and demanded a price much higher than what he’d originally paid. This was because his other assets being held by MF Global were frozen. He’s obviously out there wacking the bee’s nest and isn’t the type to back off.
The lost money is $1.2 billion. This isn’t going to be just swept under the rug. Witness the CME chatter this morning. This is too big. There will be collateral and 3rd party damage.
When all the plankton is dead the whales will feed upon each other. The small whales are finding out that they are now on the bottom of the food chain. My guess is the response from the PTB will be the same as it has been for the rest. Go pound sand.
big story here is that some farmers are suing MFG but I think they’ll just have to get in line.
Lawsuits yes, prosecution no. It helps that Corzine has friends in high places.
Corzine will have friends in high places for as long as those friends don’t run away for political reasons. Recall that George W. Bush dropped his good friend “Kenny Boy” Lay when Enron melted down.
my guess is that he will also threaten a lot of the PTB with exposure. ie he knows where a lot of dead bodies are and he’s willing to talk if he get’s taken to jail. If he’s smart he’s also recorded all this and sent the tapes to a safe place in case he has a car accident.
Corzine stole money from some important people.
And, from what I’ve heard, those important people aren’t too happy with Corzine.
Gosh darn it Carrie, we don’t have time to worry ourselves with this sort of thing. We need to get those Iranians. We need to protect those Canadian wolves roaming the Rockies.
There are bigger issues here than rule of law. I mean what’s next, dusting of the Constitution?
Romney 2012!
Of = off
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/farmers-sue-jon-corzine-missing-millions/story?id=15321298
38,000 Montana farmers and ranchers are sueing Jon Corzine over the theft of their accounts at MF Global. I’m guessing most of these bagholders are not going to be as docile about being ripped off as the sheeple who rewarded the biggest swindle on taxpayers in US history, the Wall Street bailout, by voting for Republicrat duopoly’s champions of limitless bailouts and crony capitalism, Obama and McCain. These salt-of-the-earth folks and their families are going to find out that hard way that the rule of law is defunct in America when it comes to theft and fraud committed by the .01%, especially by “too connected to jail” politicos like Corzine.
Debt Limit - A guide to the American federal debt made easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li0no7O9zmE
FED FOCUS-Fed treads new path with US housing push
By Mark Felsenthal
WASHINGTON | Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:00am EST
WASHINGTON Jan 9 (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve has launched a potentially controversial push to revive the battered U.S. housing market, calling on other government officials to act after largely exhausting its own tools to support the fragile economic recovery.
After the Fed slashed interest rates to near zero more than three years ago and amassed $2.3 trillion in bonds to spur growth, the U.S. economy showed some momentum toward the end of 2011. But many analysts are doubtful the recovery will achieve take-off velocity in 2012 and housing is one of the biggest drags.
House prices have fallen 33 percent from their 2006 peak, resulting in an estimated $7 trillion in household wealth losses, the Fed said last week as it took the unusual step of making an array of recommendations on housing policy to Congress.
Currently, about 12 million homeowners are saddled with mortgages worth more than their properties, a situation which affects roughly half of all mortgage borrowers in states suffering from the worst of the slump, such as Florida and Nevada.
“Distress in the housing sector is perhaps the main factor slowing the recovery,” said New York University economics professor Mark Gertler.
A VICIOUS CYCLE
The housing sector is caught in a vicious cycle: on top of the millions of so-called underwater homeowners owing more than properties are worth, prices are only expected to bottom out this year and a flood of newly-foreclosed homes may yet hit the market.
Fed officials are trying to use the central bank’s influence to overcome political resistance to expanding the government’s role in housing, which has been an important driver for the U.S. economy as it emerged from past recessions.
Any additional buying of mortgage-related debt would deliver a much bigger bang for the buck if regulators and mortgage finance enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which play an outsized role in the housing sector, took action to free up credit.
Beginning with a speech by Fed Governor Daniel Tarullo in October - when he said “housing continues to hang like an albatross around the necks of homeowners” — Fed officials have seemed willing to risk controversy by proposing a range of politically sensitive remedies to the housing crisis.
He said the New York Fed believes the waves of foreclosure will continue as more and more Americans give up on their mortgages, a move which would threatening the momentum that appears to have begun to build in the U.S. economy.
“We have to recognize that there is more to economic policy than just monetary policy,” Dudley said. “There are workable solutions to our housing problems at costs that I deem very reasonable relative to the economically inefficient path we are on.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/09/idUSL3E8C923L20120109 - 98k -
“housing continues to hang like an albatross around the necks of homeowners.”
No, housing continues to hang like an albatross around the necks of lenders.
The homeowners (not an accurate term, but hey) have the option of walking away, the lenders don’t have that option.
It’s not about saving housing, it’s about saving lenders.
Won’t you please give to the starving bankers fund?
Could you please stop your class-warfare bellyaching and focus on what really matters, that it’s the Lucky Duckies who are really responsible for bankrupting this country:
From the Inquirer - Pennsylvania to impose asset test for food stamps
“the Department of Public Welfare said that as of May 1, people under 60 with more than $2,000 in savings and other assets would no longer be eligible for food stamps.
Anne Bale, a spokeswoman for DPW, said the asset test was a way to ensure that “people with resources are not taking advantage of the food-stamp program,” funded by federal money.
Bale said DPW estimated that 2 percent of the 1.8 million Pennsylvanians receiving food stamps would be affected by the asset test.”
people under 60 with more than $2,000 in savings and other assets would no longer be eligible for food stamps.
2 grand in assets?? So a person saving up to fix his tooth or put a deposit on an apartment get’s cut off? We need to cut taxes fast.
There’s no such thing as “$2000″ in assets.
If that’s ALL the assets you have, you don’t have “assets.”
Hmmmm… so if you’re 100K underwater and have a new paid for BMW in the driveway, would you qualify for foodstamps if you met the income requirements?
But you can have $100k in IRA’s since that is not considered a cash asset….if you have to pay it back 401K or pay a penalty/taxes for withdrawal then its not a CASH asset…..
From the article 1 vehicle is exempt, the value of a 2nd vehicle exceeding $4600 counts toward assets. Note that retirement accounts are also excluded from assets.
My guess is a lot of companies will be selling the mattress safe in Pennsylvania.
” government’s role in housing, which has been an important driver for the U.S. economy as it emerged from past recessions.”
wait, I thought it was just wall street bankers did this…
say, isn’t the fed buying us bonds sort of like a repo?
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2012/01/insecurity-cause-and-effect-of.html
Insecurity: the cause and effect of systemic criminalization. To the 95% of the US electorate who turned a blind eye to systemic fraud, corruption, and crony capitalism in ‘08 with your votes for Obama and McCain: Your sheeplike, Third World tolerance of wrongdoing leads to a dystopia your grandchildren will curse you for enabling and allowing.
“Third World tolerance of wrongdoing leads to a dystopia your grandchildren will curse you for”
I bet getting rid of the FDA and the EPA and the social safety nets like you-know-who wants to do, will give us an even better taste of what the Third World is like.
I’ll bet it takes just like rocket fuel in baby formula and anti-freeze in toothpaste.
Oh look, a puppy!
Snap out of it Alpha.
ROTFLMAO!
Alpha’s a real joker and degrader.
What did I say that isn’t true?
Sneeeeeeeer! BAWH-HAWH-HAWH! Sneeeeeeer…….
I’ll bet it tastes just like rocket fuel in baby formula and anti-freeze in toothpaste.
That’s twice it didn’t post.
I bet getting rid of the FDA and the EPA and the social safety nets like you-know-who wants to do, will give us an even better taste of what the Third World is like.”
Rocket fuel and anti-freeze in our food is what it will taste like.
Yeah, look at it this way, at least if you’re rotting away in military detention, your meals won’t kill you and that lethal injection will be up to standards.
“I bet getting rid of the FDA and the EPA and the social safety nets like you-know-who wants to do, will give us an even better taste of what the Third World is like.”
Agreed, there is still a LONG way to go down, and we are unfortunately well on our way.
“getting rid of….the EPA”
Back in the ’60s we had an environmental revolution. We fought the things that were choking the American people and won. 40 years later we have a bureaucracy that chokes the American people, a bureaucracy that is now above the law.
I fought to reverse enviromentally damaging practices. I don’t like what the EPA has become. Doesn’t mean I want to trash my environment.
Yes Bedbugs Rule….everyone should have them as pets..ooh the scratching the itching the welts…
All because the EPA banned DDT.
DDT kills the bedbugs, that’s for sure. Unfortunately it also kills things people like, like Bald Eagles.
Howie,
When was the last time you witnessed nesting Eagles feasting on bedbugs in a NYC hotel room?
Inspired by Rio and Tebow
From the Bible
John 8:1-11.
“Let him who is without sin cast the stone”.
From the Bubble
(I wouldn`t say this unless you want to get hit with a couple of million stones)
jeff 7:-11.
Let him who hath not made a mortgage payment in two years cast the stone.
Let him who hath not made a mortgage payment in two years cast the stone.
————————-
More like let him who hath not made a mortgage payment in two years replace his countertops with stone.
Let him who hath not made a mortgage payment in two years cast the stone.
LOL.
But to be clear, I don’t dislike Tebowing because I’m hostile towards Christianity (as many who dislike it are). I don’t like his Tebowing because I respect Christianity and I think praying for a TD trivializes the religion.
(unless it’s against the Raiders of course)
Whenever I win the pot playing poker, I always like to say ‘the Lord is righteous’ as I sweep the chips to my pile. It really pisses off the other players.
Bumper sticker often seen along the Colorado front range:
“If God isn’t a Broncos fan, then why are sunrises and sunsets orange?”
Clark Hunt is planning on moving the KC Chiefs to the Phillippines.
And change their name to the “Manila Folders”
+1
What are ReaItors? (Everybody now….)
Criminal sociopaths who kick puppies and drown kittens?
“Criminal sociopaths who kick puppies and drown kittens?”
No, just people who will sell a house to make a commission knowing that if their clients actually make their mortgage payment they will not be able to afford puppy chow, kitty litter or food for their children.
“My Boyfriend’s Back”
[Spoken:]
He sold you a house, in 2006
And it`s bothered me, every night
And when I told you he was a LIAR!
He said things that weren’t very nice
The Realtor’s back and he`s still selling in a bubble
(Hey-la-day-la The Realtor’s back)
You see him comin’ better cut out on the double
(Hey-la-day-la The Realtor’s back)
He`s been spreading lies that the price drops were through
(Hey-la-day-la The Realtor’s back)
So look out now cause he’s comin’ after you
(Hey-la-day-la the Realtor’s back)
(Hey, I know what he`s been tryin’)
(And I know that he`s been lyin’)
(What made you think I’d believe all your lies?)
(Wah-ooo, wah-ooo)
(You’re a Realtor now but you’ll soon be serving fries
(Wah-ooo, wait and see)
The Realtor’s back, but his finances are in trouble
(Hey-la-day-la the Realtor’s back)
He made big bucks when he was selling in the bubble
(Hey-la, hey-la, the Realtor’s back)
Yeah, the Realtor’s back
(La-day-la, the Realtor’s back)
Look out now, yeah, the Realtor’s back
(La-day-la, the Realtor’s back)
I could see him comin’
(La-day-la, the Realtor’s back)
So you better get a runnin’
(La-day-la, the Realtor’s back)
Alright now
[Fades]
Tiny minded wipers of other people’s bottoms.
….or I shall taunt yew a second time!
Yew? As in JayYew of bygone era?!!!
This is exactly what I’ve been saying about the products we have to put up with these days. It’s why I buy a lot of vintage stuff. It’s also why they still drive American cars from the 1950s in Cuba.
http://takimag.com/article/consumer_cultures_top_five_failures#axzz1isCbynwM
“People pay for junk because their lives are made of junk.”
Life in the gilded cage.
Dont forget the tons of junk McMusic being made today.
From this amateur deejay to my NYC professional counterpart, here’s a sincere expression of sympathy. I agree with you re: McMusic. Oh, do I ever.
I thought the Cubans drove those ancient cars because of the embargo.
I know we love to think that those 50’s cars were the bees knees, but the truth is that they broke down, a lot. Even when they were new. And forget about getting more than 100K miles off an engine. I recall the the old Sear catalogs used to sell rebuilt engines. Who rebuilds a car engine these days?
“Who rebuilds a car engine these days?”
My mechanic does. For way less than you could buy a similar used car.
I understand. The thing is by the time it needs an overhaul (say around 200K) the rest of the car is probably shot (tranny, suspension, body, interior, etc.), especially if you live in one of those places where rusting is an issue.
I know we love to think that those 50’s cars were the bees knees, but the truth is that they broke down, a lot.
I agree. Fixing them was considered normal maintenance. Somebody was recommending older cars to PB the other day and I can’t agree because of that. It’s true you can keep them on the road forever, but it will take work that most of us don’t want to do, especially at inconvenient times.
A memory from my 1960’s childhood was that breakdowns on the side of the road were a common occurance and for that very reason you had AAA. Who has AAA these days, other than old folks?
Every time I pass a broken down car on the highway, and someone is looking under the hood, I laugh.
Why? Because there isn’t a damn thing you can fix on the side of the road anymore, other than a flat tire.
Engines used to be the most expensive component in your car. Now, it’s the transmission (almost all of which are electronically controlled), and all of the engine and “body” computers.
That, and the labor you have to pay to troubleshoot/replace components. A lot of the cars made since 2000 or so have copyrighted software. Only the dealers have the test equipment to interrogate the system to find out where the problem is. Around here, it costs $200 just to have them plug in the machine.
Even if you have the tools and expertise, you still need a place to work on it. Which most apartment dwellers know is problematic for anything more than (maybe) oil changes.
And racers looking for a way to get a ride back from somewhere suspiciously near the track after they break :-).
Colorado: We have triple AAA. I’ve had it since I was in my 20s. AAA can thank the New England sex offender stories for its many years of my premiums especially the one where the victim called her Mom from the perpetrator’s vehicle to say she was ok only to never be heard from again. She broke down next to the Sagamore traffic circle near the entrance to Cape Cod where I happened to live.
XGSFixer: I remember when I lived on the North Shore in the greater Boston area near the compactly developed Revere. The area was decidingly more blue collar, and you’d sometimes see guys working on their vehicles parked under the underpasses. Wouldn’t surprise me if they were ditching their motor oil into the stormdrains but they probably were just looking for a place they could spread out.
you’d sometimes see guys working on their vehicles parked under the underpasses
I’d never thought of that, but I assume it’s for shade from the sun or shelter from rain.
HEY! Someone’s stealing my material!
The pigs just can’t keep themselves away from the trough for long, not when they realize the electorate is giving them absolution for their sins via detail neglect. All the practices that were identified as contributors to the housing bubble are slowing coming back online.
A housing program blamed in part for high default rates on government-backed loans, derided as a “scam” by the Internal Revenue Service and targeted for years for elimination by the agency that ran it looked like it finally had reached its end this fall, after Congress finally banned it. But now, in a sign that some lessons of the housing crisis have yet to be learned, a movement is afoot to bring it back.
The program is called seller-funded down payment assistance. When U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan told Congress last month that dramatic growth in seller-funded down payment assistance programs in recent years had added to high default rates on Federal Housing Administration-backed loans, it might have seemed like the final blow. The programs, initially intended to help low and moderate income people buy homes, had long been under fire, the subject of complaints from HUD, the General Accounting Office, and the IRS. And with FHA default rates threatening to trigger yet another taxpayer bailout, policymakers have plenty of motivation to steer clear of any lending approaches deemed risky or problematic.
But supporters of seller-funded down payment assistance aren’t giving up. Despite Donovan’s stance, they’re still supporting a bill to revive the program – a measure now before the House Financial Services Committee. Sponsored by Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.), the bill has 17 co-sponsors, among them powerful lawmakers such as Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.). Backers include builders and realtor groups, the National Association of Mortgage Bankers, and the Congressional Black Caucus. Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., told the Wall Street Journal last year he wants to reform the program, not kill it. And supporters are continuing to pressure HUD to preserve it.
“We do agree there were problems with the previous program,” said David Ledford, senior vice president for housing policy at the National Association of Home Builders. “But we still support the legislation. HUD was somewhat at fault for not properly monitoring it. It can be done more carefully, and with tighter controls. But HUD is just throwing up its hands and saying things turned out badly and we shouldn’t do it at all.”
http://washingtonindependent.com/42247/risky-mortgage-program-resurfaces-in-congress
“Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.)”
Go Maxine! You get credit for saving your constituents and the taxpayer gets stuck with the bill.
Why expect anything when you have clueless morons like Maxine Waters developing public policy?
“Clueless morons” such as Maxine Waters are considered a hero to the voting folks that live in South Central L.A. Discovering methods of satisifying these voting folks are all she clues she needs to get hold of.
It isn’t about formulating public policy, it’s about getting re-elected.
Buying the love of the voters is best done using somebody else’s (i.e. the taxpayer’s) money.
She isn’t developing it.
She is a mouth piece for those that are.
This is true of most politicians
Do we really think most of these guys stay up late grinding #’s. Nope.
Yeah, yeah. Throw the little guys under the bus. We know they’re not the problem.
Wall Street Mulls Pay Freeze on Some Bankers
Wall Street’s biggest firms, facing a slump in investment-banking revenue, are considering freezing compensation levels for some junior bankers, according to people familiar with the deliberations.
Credit Suisse Group AG (CSGN) is likely to suspend its practice, an industry norm, of boosting pay automatically each year for analysts, associates and vice presidents within the investment- banking division, a person with direct knowledge of the decision said. While those employees will get their regular annual salary increases, bonuses probably will be lowered to keep total pay flat from a year earlier, said the person, who requested anonymity because the plan isn’t public.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-09/wall-street-firms-said-to-weigh-freezing-pay-increases-for-junior-bankers.html
Those poor, poor bankers! I guess some sacrifice is necessary in order to keep their 6 figure jobs.
The banks are hallowed and sacred cornerstones of the world economic system. When told to sacrifice yourself for their sakes, let your heart burst with joy that you could contribute to the betterment of the world.
(Wow. Sounds like something out of North Korea
You jest, but you are so close to the truth it hurts…
The Medicis established the first branch/trans-national banks in Europe at the beginning of the Renaissance. One of family went on to become a pope. A very bad one at that.
See?
Think about all those connections.
lurkey:
:-0
When the plankton is gone the big whales will turn on the smaller whales and consume them Hannable Lectar style with fava beans and a fine chianti.
Guess they’re planning to spend their money on pennies-on-the-dollar GSE SFH bundles this year instead.
Tiffany & Co. (TIF), the world’s second- largest luxury jewelry retailer, reduced its annual earnings forecast after holiday sales growth slowed in the U.S. and Europe. The shares declined.
Profit excluding some items will advance to as much as $3.65 a share in the year ending Jan. 31, the New York-based jeweler said today in a statement. That compares with a November forecast for profit of as much as $3.80. Analysts projected $3.77, the average of estimates in a Bloomberg survey.
Tiffany, which generates almost half of its sales outside of the U.S., is selling fewer $65,000 diamond necklaces as Europe’s sovereign debt crisis prompted consumers to curb spending. In the Americas, higher sales from tourists were offset by “weakness” in spending from U.S. customers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-10/tiffany-reduces-annual-profit-forecast-as-holiday-growth-slows.html
Actually Tiffany’s is a very moderate priced store. A few years ago read an I-bank report on them. Very large % of there sales were items a hundred bucks or less.
As home prices fall, more borrowers walk away
By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer
When David Martin and his wife bought their north Seattle condo five years ago, they figured they had plenty of time to downsize if they needed to before they retired.
Now, with the property worth roughly $60,000 less than the balance of their mortgage, Martin, 68, has been giving serious thought to just walking away, a process lenders call “strategic default.”
“It’s a looming problem that’s in the shadows,” said Jason Kopcak, a mortgage trader at Cantor Fitzgerald who advises lenders on how to value the loans on their books. “It’s very worrisome to mortgage lenders.”
“Most people who own a home know of someone — a friend, a colleague a family member — who has defaulted, especially in housing markets that have taken a big hit,” said Jon Maddux, CEO and co-founder of youwalkaway.com, a service that advises homeowners on walking away from their mortgage. “They realize these are not bad people. They’re not deadbeats. They’re just like them.”
The government’s ineffective response to the housing crisis, even as it went to extraordinary lengths to backstop banks, has also propelled walkaways, say researchers. Since the housing bubble burst in 2006, some $7 trillion in home equity has evaporated, according to Federal Reserve data. Now, as home prices resume their fall, some homeowners believe lenders should bear at least a portion of the losses inflicted by a housing bust the industry helped create.
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/21/9614305-as-home-prices-fall-more-borrowers-walk-away -
Anyone here familiar with, or dealt with, NACA? As a buyer or seller? What’s the story?
They’ve got some good airfoils.
Groan.
Serial housing market bottom callers are once again engaged in their annual ritual.
The Wall Street Journal
HEARD ON THE STREET
JANUARY 10, 2012
Framing a Case for Home Builders
BY JUSTIN LAHART
For over five years now, people have been saying that home builders’ fortunes were about to turn a corner. And for over five years, that has been wrong.
But it is beginning to look as if this will be the year when some housing bulls are actually right—with the caveat that, as always with real estate, location matters.
In 2011, only about 300,000 newly built homes were sold in the U.S., down from a peak of 1.3 million in 2005, and the fewest since records began in 1963.
…
5 years.
My how time flies when you’re having fun! (but fruit flies like a banana)
My how time flies when you are a serial bottom caller who gets it wrong every year until he gets it right!
Beezow Doo-Doo Zopittybop-Bop-Bop arrested in Wis.
AP – 18 hrs ago
MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Authorities in southern Wisconsin are facing a tongue twister thanks to the arrest of Beezow Doo-Doo Zopittybop-Bop-Bop.
The unusually named 30-year-old man was in jail Sunday in Madison. Police say he violated his bail conditions from a previous run-in with the law.
Court records show that his name used to be Jeffrey Drew Wilschke. He legally changed it in October.
The Capital Times reports (http://bit.ly/z7IOdM ) that Zopittybop-Bop-Bop was arrested last week after residents complained of excessive drinking and drug use near Reynolds Park in Madison. Authorities say he was arrested in another local park last April after police found a loaded handgun in his backpack.
He’s tentatively charged with carrying a concealed knife, and possession of drug paraphernalia and marijuana.
http://news.yahoo.com/beezow-doo-doo-zopittybop-bop-bop-arrested-wis-081957548.html - 253k -
I know people with longer “normal” names than this
I’m thinking about changing my name to “ZZ None of the Above ZZ”, and getting my name on the ballot for the US Senate.
Not a bad idea at all, as long as you actually wouldn’t mind taking the job if you won.
[Note: THESE ARE REAL PICTURES of Halloween at the White House in 2009.]
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/01/09/the-only-known-photos-from-the-white-houses-2009-alice-in-wonderland-party/ -
And this is considered *news* because Matt Drudge linked to it?
“And this is considered *news* because Matt Drudge linked to it?”
No this is considered news because uh hold on, a military helicopter just landed in my front yard. Damn!
ROTFLMAO!
Masque of the Red Death. Fall of the House of Usher. (Was Usher there? Betcha he was.)
The best, as usual, are the comments. My favorite is the guy who said that this doesn’t bother him. It’s BO’s continued spending on everything but the military that has him concerned.
And we wonder where we will drum up support for Iran…Looks like there’s plenty who can’t wait.
It was a Hallowe’en party for the kids of military personnel stationed in the Middle East. The press corps was invited, and the pix were published on both Flikr and the White House website.
And your problem with that is…?
“And your problem with that is…?”
Posted at 09:59 PM ET, 01/10/2012
Ron Paul New Hampshire primary night speech (TEXT)
By Felicia Sonmez
an honest government that wants to be a big spending government would tax the people, and then the people would know what they were doing. If — if we had to pay taxes for everything that they do, you know, the people would rise up and — and stop it. So then they started borrowing money a lot, and then people didn’t notice that quite as much, because they didn’t pass that on.
But then they resorted to the printing of the money.
So you admit your crap about the Halloween party was just that- crap propaganda for the mindless, that had and has no importance whatsoever.
Thanks!
I have a question for the HBB brain trust:
A friend’s daughter has been out of a job for, oh, at least a year. Her unemployment’s running out, and guess what. Still no job.
She’s going back to school soon, and she’s also hiring herself out as a house cleaner. According to one of my other friends, she does a great job. As in, you can eat off the floors when she’s finished cleaning your place.
My idea? Get her into business as a cleaner-upper of foreclosed houses. She’s fairly handy with repairs, so I think she could handle that part too. Or supervise other people doing it.
So, brain trust, how can she get into this sort of business?
Ask Ben. He knows.
Okay, paging Ben: How can my friend’s daughter become a cleaner-upper of foreclosed houses?
Hey Slim - from my Realtor friends ( I know, I know, I need to hang out with a better crowd ), they have some leeway in making the foreclosure sell-able.
She might try hitting up some Realtors and see what the story is in Phoenix.
Have her make up some cards, put together a list of references and hit the mortgage department of local banks and title companies for the contact infor for higher ups. Ask neighbors with cruddy lawns next door. Keep an eye out for forclosure servicers and see who’s hiring them. Or just put ads in the PennySaver and Craigs lists where there is a lot of foreclosure activity with your contact info prominently featured. Leave cards on the door knobs and at local super markets and moving rental companies. Get creative…. and good Luck!
‘Round here, it helps to be buddies with the banksters, as far as getting the contracts goes. Kind of like selling their REOs. They dole them out to their buds.
I know Ben is in the biz, and I’m not saying he’s a bankster bud, I’m just saying how it is around here- Lexington Ky. It may be different in the sand states, due to more inventory to handle.
she does a great job.
If she’s that good I’d think she’d be better off using her skills on behalf of the 0.01%, assuming that’s where the money for high end cleaning is.
OhBahma do you have to be this blatant?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/new-chief-staff-former-hedge-fund-exec-citigroup-made-money-mortgage-defaults_616230.html
Oh no..twinkies
http://www.myfoxdc.com//dpp/money/hostess-brands-maker-of-wonder-bread-and-twinkies-prepping-bankruptcy-report-010112
I preferred Zingers back in the day, preferably frozen. I think they may have been made or at least distributed by the same people, though. I’m sure they’ll continue to be available. Even if no more are made, the NOS will be edible for years :-).
How can this be possible? I thought that the foodstamp crowd lived off a steady diet of junk food? Or have they switched to the store brand junk food to extend their foodstamp dollars?
No, because if you read all the stories linked from Matt Drudge then you’ll know the Lucky Duckies spend all their food stamps on steaks and lobster.
…and pimped out whips and beer.
“Where are you, you spongy, yellow, delicious ba$#ards!!!!…..”
“A spokesman for the privately held company.”
How are those private equity deals working out?
Anybody still want to lend the private equity guys money?
Don’t worry, my friend, Mitt, will buy the company.
Latest housing news from Tucson:
Dec. median home-sale price was $120K, down 14% for year
Much comment merriment follows, including this gem, which reads like blank verse to me:
no one can SELL normally with over 50% of sales from REO’s
and with 25,000 VACANT properties - post office number
it isn’t getting better
I drove by a place yesterday where I saw nearly 1/2 properties with OWNER signs basically begging someone to consider buying
with no takers - they are ALL UNDER WATER
And here’s the latest on the big rent-to-own case that also includes an unsolved murder:
Two get some jail, must pay restitution for mortgage fraud
BTW, the guy who was murdered worked for the same mortgage company that I used for buying the Arizona Slim Ranch. The word “incompetent” doesn’t begin to describe what they were like. I couldn’t believe that such stupidity could open offices and be in business. As a result of the Arizona Attorney General’s investigation, this mortgage company has closed for good.
That much incompetency is usually a sure sign of fraud.
Right you are. Same thing happened during the S&L heyday of the 1980s. Some of those institutions redefined the word “stupid.”
And I’m going to go all HBB Librarian on you and cite William K. Black’s book. Again.
In The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One, he describes how control frauds work. In essence, they’re what happens when a nefarious person or group gains control of a company for the purpose of looting it.
One of the signature aspects of a control fraud is poor management, poor operations, you name it. If it can be done poorly, it’s done very poorly in a control fraud.
It is just awesome the way the housing inventory shrinks and the total unit sales go up with all the vacant houses and people living in homes without making payments for years. The same thing is happening here. It’s almost like the housing market is defying gravity or something is holding it up.
Median home prices in the Tucson area (unexpectedly) ended the year about 14 percent lower than in 2010.
The median home price for December was $120,000, down from $139,500 in December 2010, according to statistics from the Tucson Association of Realtors Multiple Listing Service.
In November the median sales price - the point where half of homes sell for less and half sell for more - was $122,000.
Housing inventory shrunk 28 percent from 2010, with 4,911 active listings in December compared with 6,859 active listings at the same time a year earlier.
And while the median price remains far lower than in years past, home sales have increased.
There were 961 total unit sales in December, up from 907 unit sales in December 2010, the numbers show.
It must be a great time to buy.
And while the median price remains far lower than in years past, home sales have increased.
OTOH, it looks like home sales are following the law of supply and demand. Meaning that the lower prices are leading to increased sales.
I`m going with chickens.
From 1999 - 2006 there was a chicken mania. In 1999 a chicken cost $1,000.00 but it was difficult for the average guy to get a $1,000.00 loan to buy a chicken. Interest rates dropped and all of a sudden chicken sales picked up. By 2002 chickens were going for $4,000.00 and sales were brisk. Somebody thought it wasn`t fair that some people could afford a $4,000.00 chicken and some people could not. So they thought it would be a good idea to have a chicken loan that avereage and below average wage earners could have access to. These were called sub-prime chicken loans. Well a whole industry popped up out of nowhere making loans to people without checking if they had the ability to actually pay for a chicken. The price of chickens went straight trough the roof. By late 2004 a chicken cost $400k if you could find one and they were being sold even before they hatched! People were buying chickens and flipping them a week later for a profit of $100k.
Well in 2007 as some people had predicted the chicken bubble popped. There were no more chicken buyers. Some people owned 5 or 6 chickens. There were people who only made $30k a year and yet they owned two $450k chickens. Without someone to buy their chicken at a higher price they could never make even the neg-am chicken payment.
The financial system that had packaged these chicken loans and sold them to investors as AAA investments was in trouble. AIG had insured the loans on these $500k chickens. The financial system was ready to collapse. But then the Fed came in and pumped trillions of newly printed $ into the banks and Wall Street firms to keep them afloat. But there was still a problem, what about those millions of over priced chickens out there. If all those chickens are put back on the market at one time they won`t be worth anything. These chickens are still on someones balance sheet.
So the government along with the banks and the Fed built a huge chicken coop. Where they could keep the millions of chickens and put them out for sale a few at a time. This allows them to control the price decline of the chickens so they can try to avert another financial meltdown.
I think I’ll go up the street and read this story to my neighbors’ chicken flock. They’ll probably drop a deuce or two while I’m reading.
If nothing else, those chickens know how to dump deuces. If they laid eggs as often, my neighbors would be drowning in them.
Just don`t get cought trying to flip a chicken.
Lagarde to Meet Merkel as Debt Pressure Rises
Bloomberg
By Rebecca Christie - Jan 10, 2012 12:18 PM ET
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde will meet in Berlin tonight as pressure grows to complete a Greek debt swap needed to put a rescue plan in place.
The deal, hammered out by European Union leaders, Greek officials and the nation’s creditors on Oct. 26, called for bondholders to accept a 50 percent cut in the face value of their Greek debt, with a goal of reducing Greece’s borrowings to 120 percent of gross domestic product by 2020.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-10/lagarde-to-meet-merkel-as-pressure-rises-to-finish-debt-swap.html
OK OK I call uncle. Everyone is in collusion to keep housing prices insanely high. This is as rigged a game as any casino. Yeah, I knew this, been reading HBB for 6 years, but still.
As some of you may know,for a variety of reasons, our (non rent-controlled) SFH rental of 13 years is not as appealing as it once was. Our landlady is getting old and dotty, our rent keeps going up, and we are getting well into our late 40’s. We have kids and dogs and decent jobs and roots and community.
Rents are sky high and the vacancy rate is low. Buying now could look like paying (total PITI) almost the same as renting. Not quite even, but close.
We qualify for every possible “great” first-time home buyer program out there. Great credit, decent income, stable jobs.
Yet all of these programs require that we spend AT LEAST 33% of our GROSS income on PITI. WTF??
33% of our gross income on housing actually translates into 50% of our net income (health insurance, union dues, pension).
Who sets this 33%? Fannie and Freddie.
If we want a low debt to income lifestyle, we do not qualify for these special loans that were created for middle income families.
The only other choice is to either
a) save 50% of the down payment for a high priced house
b) borrow 95% of the cost of a high-priced house
c) continue renting at a high price
In fact - if we decided to go out and get a massive car loan we would be a better position to get a loan. Having zero debt is working against us.
Option B is looking better and better. It is clearly the more irresponsible way to go, but at 4% interest rates and a good possibility of inflation down the road, maybe that is the way to go.
We’ve done the sensible thing (thanks HBB!) by sitting and waiting and renting for the past 10 years. W are getting older, our kids are getting older, our careers are established, and we are settled down here. But now rents are rising AND housing is still over priced.
Renting and buying are very close to being an even bet (at least where we are looking), and here on HBB it’s been a mantra that that is the right time to buy…
…but am I now supposed to be waiting for BOTH rents and home prices to crash?
Hey do me a favor, don’t respond if your solution is “move somewhere else”. I’ve had this discussion before, seriously considered it, and for many many reasons we have decided, as a family, that where we live is home, as it has been for the last 20 years.
If we want a low debt to income lifestyle, we do not qualify for these special loans that were created for middle income families.
Nobody wants you to have a low debt to income lifestyle. They want you in chains, working for them until you drop.
Nobody wants you to have a low debt to income lifestyle. They want you in chains, working for them until you drop.
+1 Etch that one in granite.
Why not etch it in granite countertops, for good measure?
It’s really hard to compete with stupid money and low interest rates. How-much-a-month is not the rational way to make a choice.
It’s really hard to compete with stupid money and low interest rates. How-much-a-month is not the rational way to make a choice.
Yes, that’s true - I agree.
But you DO have to make choices about where to live and how much to pay (when renting) based on how much a month.
Maybe borrowing 95% at 4% (very little skin in the game) is rational when the monthly cost would be the same as renting. And yes, I am including PITI and maintenance.
Of course, if rents come crashing down, that’s another story.
Rents up or down a few hundred a month over the next few years is not the headline. The real math question is will the house value decrease, and in a market where the average house is $800K and is looking at a cliff, do you have the brass to throw a few hundred large (that you borrowed) over the cliff (poof, gone still have to pay it back) to be rid of your addled landlady?
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not against such a thing for you, just would like you to look at that angle.
Rents up or down a few hundred a month over the next few years is not the headline. The real math question is will the house value decrease, and in a market where the average house is $800K and is looking at a cliff, do you have the brass to throw a few hundred large (that you borrowed) over the cliff (poof, gone still have to pay it back) to be rid of your addled landlady?
Borrow 400K at and have a place to live for 3K a month, or rent for 3K a month. That’s what we are looking at.
Where ever we go we plan to stay for 10 years, at least. Housing in SF goes over a cliff and we mail the keys in.
But at our age, with kids and pets, moving every few years to chase down cheaper rents (which do not exist right now) is not really in the cards. In my 20’s, when I was single, I did that - no problem. In my 50’s, uh, not so much.
Yes, at 60 my dad made his last move. Determined he’d box up no more. He was right. He didn’t give a flip what the resale value would be. I am at the same place.
You have a solution, which is planned default. If that’s your game, should have implemented it years ago. Hopefully for you, the rules of the game will not change by then.
Excellent logic Blue.
Borrow 400K at and have a place to live for 3K a month, or rent for 3K a month. That’s what we are looking at.
Where’s the incentive to buy?
Now if rent is $3k and a mortgage payment is $2K then sure it might make sense. Also, borrowing $400k while in your 50’s sounds stressful; maybe it’s just me.
We qualify for every possible “great” first-time home buyer program out there. Great credit, decent income, stable jobs.
Yet all of these programs require that we spend AT LEAST 33% of our GROSS income on PITI. WTF??
33% of our gross income on housing actually translates into 50% of our net income (health insurance, union dues, pension).
Who sets this 33%? Fannie and Freddie.
ISTR our own polly noting that 33% of her gross income would work out to something like two thirds of her net income. Which didn’t exactly make her interested in buying a house.
I do appreciate this. I too have been waiting for the other shoe to drop for years now. And the government plus the Fed keep siphoning money to the FIRE sector to buoy house prices.
ON THE OTHER HAND… my net worth has done pretty well these last several years renting. Buying a house is not an immediate path to riches. I know people whose finances have been destroyed by it. Buying a house means that one day you’ll be able to give yourself a 12-20K raise when you stop paying the mortgage (or whatever your monthly mortgage is times 12).
I refuse to be stampeded into a bad financial decision by the Fed and the government. I’d be satisfied at getting a decent house at pre-bubble prices. I see no reason why that won’t happen eventually. Broken debt markets led to the massive price increases not natural demand (although there is some of that with a larger population).
So summary: I’m satisfied when I know I’m making good financial decisions and have a decent place to live at a reasonable price. That’s increasingly looking like another - different - rental. I certainly do want to buy but refuse to sell my soul to the company store in order to do so. So - I’ll compromise.
The government housing entities still buy and insure low and no-down loans (Fannie, Freddie, FHA, VA, etc). The hell with them. They’re concerned first and foremost with their cronies. Government of the highest bidder by the highest bidder for the highest bidder. I’m not going to play their game.
Buying a house is not an immediate path to riches.
Many of us who would like to buy are not looking for an immediate path to riches. Really all I want is a stable place to live. No more crazy landlords, a solid place to raise my kids and dogs, maybe plant a fruit tree or two…
What finally motivated me off the fence as far as buying was the day my landlady’s boyfriend’s dog attacked someone who came over to pick something up from me. Landlady was one of those people who regarded Tucson’s leash laws as optional. So I’d always have to warn her whenever someone was coming to see me so she’d keep this dog tied up.
I decided that I wanted to live somewhere where I could control whether there was a dog on the property or not. I don’t have a dog, nor do I want one, so that settles that.
But I do have a place that’s landscaped the way I want it, and that’s a great source of pleasure for me. Likewise, my snail’s pace progress on fixing the place up. This is a middle-aged house, and it’s been a real learning experience as far as fixing it up has been concerned.
So,Slim, you bought the farm, so to speak. When?
Really all I want is a stable place to live. No more crazy landlords, a solid place to raise my kids and dogs, maybe plant a fruit tree or two…
It’s understandable. Very hard in SF but understandable.
sfrenter and neuromance, I hear you. I starting reading this blog in 2005/6, too. Wasn’t in any position to buy so it was all academic at the time. I was planning on applying to grad school and biding my time. Six years later, prices are still the same and I am almost finished with school (been going part-time while working - no debt). “Waiting for the other shoe to drop” has gotten old.
I knew it was going to take awhile, but I kind of figured that by the time I was done with school things would have shaken out and be on the road to normal, and maybe I’d be buying a house by now. Instead, no end in sight.
Only silver lining is that I used to be kind of worried when people would talk about the higher ed bubble bursting, and wondering if I was doing the right thing going to grad school. With the housing bubble taking this long, I’m no longer worried. The higher ed bubble won’t pop in my lifetime.
Anyway, I’ve been thinking along the same lines as you, as far as the no downpayment/low interest mortgage being equivalent to rent and maybe the way to go. Hence my post about NACA above, which nobody responded to.
Anyway, I’ve been thinking along the same lines as you, as far as the no downpayment/low interest mortgage being equivalent to rent and maybe the way to go. Hence my post about NACA above, which nobody responded to.
I poked around on the web about NACA. A lot of really disgruntled customers. My (mostly uninformed) take on them is that they are a for-profit posing as a non-profit. At the least badly managed, at the worst an outright scam.
Yet all of these programs require that we spend AT LEAST 33% of our GROSS income on PITI. WTF??
I thought 28% was the maximum allowable by most lenders. Certainly it would seem imprudent to go any higher than that.
“Yet all of these programs require that we spend AT LEAST 33% of our GROSS income on PITI. WTF??”"
WTF is right. Back in the day there were maximums that were lower than this.
I suggest that before doing anything, you contact your local newspaper with regard to your situation. Personify those who have been screwed by keeping housing prices high.
I suggest that before doing anything, you contact your local newspaper with regard to your situation. Personify those who have been screwed by keeping housing prices high.
Actually working on a piece for the local NPR radio slot “perspectives”. Of course if they accept it I’ll be thrilled and send y’all the link.
And yes, 33% of your GROSS income is the Fannie and Freddie guidelines that these lenders are adhering to. Insanity.
“This is as rigged a game as any casino. Yeah, I knew this, been reading HBB for 6 years, but still.”
It’s downright shocking to me how blatant are the man behind the curtain’s efforts this late in the game.
I vote for B
California is a non recourse state.
Give another possible plunge you can get out. Maybe stop making payments for a few years live in the house and then buy another place.
Ran some errands around town today before heading to work……
-The “Hastings” store is closing.
-One of the local fabric/craft/scrapbooking stores is closing.
-A couple of older gas stations have closed. One has already been bulldozed.
Pretty soon, we’ll be down to Wally World, Target, Best Buy and Hobby Lobby. Maybe a grocery store or two.
Our “green shoots” consist of junkmen and bulldozer/wrecking ball drivers.
Wal Mart = The new “Company Store”.
I’m surprised Walmart hasn’t gone into the banking business at least to the extent of loaning people money to buy their products.
Walmart did try to get into banking a few years ago. I think that the banking establishment quashed that effort.
I recall when Costco tried to get into the 401(k) business too. My company wanted to switch because they think Costco can do no wrong..but the funds had inferior shares and then apparently dropped the idea.
quite the collection of sob stories here.
“Well, I guess that one’s out,” she says with a sigh. “He’ll probably hire some high school kid who doesn’t need the money half as much as I do.”
from the article I saw no mention of moving in with their grown children ? So they didn’t have kids ? The kids don’t like them ? Or it makes a better story to write 80 years old grandma lives in the woods because in America they let old people die ?
I don’t know ?
Not everybody has family they can move in with, or anyone they can turn to. How many friends do you think an 80 year old has left? Outlived ‘em all.
Hey Rio
If you are around look at the number of comments on yesterdays bits.
Much ado about numbers: Did Tebow throw a Bible verse?
Tim Tebow throws for 316 yards, recalling the Bible verse John 3:16 he used to wear on his eyeblack
By James Davis
Sun Sentinel
Posted: 8:09 a.m. Tuesday, Jan. 10, 2012
Football married numerology when Tim Tebow threw for 316 yards in the Denver Broncos’ win over the Pittsburgh Steelers Sunday night.
John 3:16, of course, is one of Tebow’s favorite Bible verses.
Icing on the cake: He also set an NFL playoff record with 31.6 yards per completion.
The good Lord smote those evil Steelers but good.
Something he should do more often IMHO
He sure did
He took out their entire defensive front line.
Their first string running back.
Their center
and of course cripled Big Ben.
No takers on comment # 317?
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/10/10077374-the-homes-of-the-gop-contenders
Homes of the GOP contenders. Draw your own conclusions.
Wealthy, male, pasty white, liar, corrupt, phony, spoon fed.
It’s not over t’ll the fat lady sings.
Comment by Liz Pendens
2012-01-10 17:29:23
I’m not wasting my vote on Ron Paul. He just isn’t electable. I am voting for someone who can win. I am voting for the biggest lying piece of shit. Who has the best smile and nicest suit. I want that guy. Shitty change is what America will get.
——————————————————————
And the ObamaBots and McCainMutants hear you loud and clear.
Be prepared to take it to the streets if these two are the only options.
RAL is pre-programming himself as a loser.
Sad - I thought he had a few great brain cells left.
Looks like RP got second, ie he’s moving up.
As the accused communist on this board, here is a bill I support 100%.
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A Senate panel advanced bills Tuesday that would require people laid off in South Carolina to pass a drug test to receive unemployment benefits, then volunteer 16 hours weekly with a charity or public agency to keep receiving a check.
Though the panel heard testimony that both proposals would likely conflict with federal law, its chairman, Sen. Kevin Bryant, said afterward that doesn’t matter.
“It’s time to start pushing back,” said Bryant, R-Anderson. “I can’t base how I vote on a bill on what some activist, liberal judge is going to do.”
Now what to do with the drug addicts, and who is going to pay for the testing.
The beauty of this bill is it will
1. Get people who use drugs to reconsider. I might add some resources for getting people off drugs and staff it with unemployed volunteers.
2. Get’s people who really have jobs in the black market to stop their benefits. ie harder to take free cheese and hold down a full time job.
3. Teaches people to be on time and do good.
Of course I’m sure some low life will start a charity and figure a way to profit from the free forced labor, and what if there aren’t enough charity positions. The state can use the labor to fix things and clean up parks etc, wait this is evolving into a jobs program.
“then volunteer 16 hours weekly with a charity or public agency to keep receiving a check”
Does a political campaign count?
Volunteer work is actually not such a bad idea. At least it gets folks out of the house and making connections. I recall the last time I was unemployed, I had to be “available for work” virtually all of the time. I cut out my volunteer commitments. It may be that this availability requirement is the source of the conflict.
NOTE TO THE F.E.D., TREASURY, ETC., ETC. ~ Take a breath. Ahhhhhh……. there you go,….close your eyes,…….take a nap!