January 12, 2012

Bits Bucket for January 12, 2012

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.




RSS feed

229 Comments »

Comment by ahansen
2012-01-12 00:46:22

Late night reading of yesterday’s thread on the NH elections inspires this:

The Republican primaries are nothing but a sham for benefit of the network television industry. The number of actual voters participating in the process is so minuscule as to be irrelevant; certainly it’s not representative of the Republican electorate nationwide. Seven votes in Iowa constitutes a “victory?” New Hampshire has what, point three percent of the national electorate? And now comes the “day of reckoning” in South Carolina where Stephen Colbert is polling ahead of Jon Huntsman? Puhleeze.

Romney was anointed about the same time the Palin Family went full reality show, and everyone in a position to throw the election knows it. Ron Paul could pull a 70% share in SC and Romney would STILL get the nomination. Our voices have been out-purchased, out-shouted, and outsourced to our corporate masters.

The extreme dissatisfaction we’re seeing here on the street, in the Paul splinter campaign, in the alternative media, is the nascent movement toward weighted elections and the dissolution of the two party electoral college system.

Occupy the Tea Party isn’t just a mindless slogan; if the electorate can get beyond the issues and address the structural inequalities codified in the “Citizens United” decision, we can take our votes back. Concentrate your efforts on your Congressional elections. That’s where strategy will be critical in November.

Here’s an editorial sent to me by my ex-BIL, a veteran newsman who is wisely covering this primary season from the comfort of his lovely DC apartment.
“…As Jon Huntsman wound down his New Hampshire campaign with a stop Monday at Crosby Bakery in Nashua, he was trailed by about 150 journalists. Total number of New Hampshire voters: Perhaps a dozen….”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/journalists-campaign-trail-secrets-revealed/2012/01/10/gIQAW96MpP_story.html

Comment by BlueStar
2012-01-12 06:05:10

Last November I voted in a state election and it was reported that only 5% of eligible voters cast votes. By my math that’s 5% of the population deciding the fate of the rest of the citizens. Unless this changes there in no reason to hope things will get better from here.

Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 08:32:35

Well Blue we are idiots in America, maybe we should make it a bonus Holiday like MLK day if you vote then you get $50 off your taxes or a $50 more refund …….Ill bet only 7% will vote next time

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 09:53:35

One of the advantages of working at a big company (vs. small companies) is that you get MLK day off.

Three day weekend, here I come! I might even grill some steaks to conmemorate the Rev. King.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by howiewowie
2012-01-12 14:39:14

I work at a big company (25,000 people) and don’t get MLK day off. Of course I didn’t get Christmas, Christmas Eve or New Year’s Eve off this year, either.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 16:09:26

Then you work for the wrong large company.

 
Comment by rms
2012-01-12 20:25:19

I work at a big company (25,000 people) and don’t get MLK day off. Of course I didn’t get Christmas, Christmas Eve or New Year’s Eve off this year, either.

Health-care worker?

 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2012-01-12 20:51:31

“Three day weekend, here I come! I might even grill some steaks to conmemorate the Rev. King.”

Just looked outside. Looks like I’ll be standing in snow while I grill some steaks. I’m beginning to think that the term “The Sunny Southland” doesn’t apply to the northwestern NC mountains!

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-13 00:17:16

how about a TV station…we have to be there 24/7

Health-care worker?

 
 
 
Comment by Steve J
2012-01-12 09:28:42

I like it when few people vote.

Makes my vote count more.

 
 
Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 06:21:08

WRT if the electorate can get beyond the issues…

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter” — Winston Churchill

Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 09:08:26

The intellect of the electorate, as detailed in USA Today:

Poll: 43% say Tim Tebow is winning via Divine Intervention

“In a telephone survey, the Poll Position website found that 43.3% of people who are aware of Tebow’s success believe Divine Intervention has been a factor.

Politically speaking, 54.2% of Republicans said yes, as did 38.2% of Democrats and 35.1% of independent voters.”

Comment by Pete
2012-01-12 13:18:56

“In a telephone survey, the Poll Position website found that 43.3% of people who are aware of Tebow’s success believe Divine Intervention has been a factor.”

Not sure whether this poll speaks to the intelligence of Americans, or Tebow’s talent. Either way, oy.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Jess from upstate SC
2012-01-12 06:37:52

Romney has had as his full time job the past 5 years ,Running for President.
Contrast that to Pres Eisenhower , who in June ,1952 , decided to let himself be pushed into running as a Republican. Both repubs and Dems wanted him. It was not until Oct. 1952 that he got around to filing his Birth certificate , a month before the Presidental election of 1952.
A lot of folks were worried about him , being an army general and all , but he was possibly one of our last half-honest Presidents……

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 07:54:10

Eisenhower was the last of the “statesmen”.

Comment by Steve J
2012-01-12 09:31:04

I thought he had a stroke in office and Mamie took over for several years?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 09:43:15

He had a heart attack. Wilson had the stroke and his wife took over.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 09:59:39

Reagan had the brain-freeze, and his wife’s astrologer took over.

Clinton had the Summers/Rubin conversion and Wall Street took over.

W Bush had the silver-spoon and God, combined with a moderate IQ and Wall Street took over even more.

Obama had the structural depression handed to him and Wall Street had taken over.

Any other versions?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:03:02

The extreme dissatisfaction we’re seeing here on the street, in the Paul splinter campaign, in the alternative media, is the nascent movement toward weighted elections and the dissolution of the two party electoral college system.

I’ll drink to the above! Anyone else care to raise a glass with me?

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2012-01-12 09:36:53

Anyone else care to raise a glass with me?

Who? What? Oh, Yeahbsolutely! ;-)

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 19:00:37

Slim, I’ll raise a glass with you anytime, for any reason.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 19:07:48

Not to seem like a Rushhead or anything, but “ditto.”

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 20:06:17

Slainte!

 
 
Comment by JackRussell
2012-01-12 18:15:14

Instead of the debates, they should have just made it a 39-episode reality show. That way people would know when to tune in. Or not..

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 04:33:31

Comment by combotechie
2012-01-11 06:39:32

And if the term “deadbeat” is redefined as something more acceptable then the money that is owed-but-not paid can be redefined to something more acceptable and maybe will not have to be written down on the books.

Comment by Neuromance
2012-01-11 18:47:13

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” — Alice In Wonderland

Why is a Deadbeat like a writing desk?

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-12 09:04:01

Deadbeat was redefined by the Credit Card (bankster) vendors during the crash of 2007. If you DON’T keep a running balance (and thus pay continual interest payments 18% to the banks), then you are, by their definition, a DEADBEAT. They don’t want your business. I understand.

 
Comment by ahansen
2012-01-13 00:47:35

Okay, neuro, it’s late, but I’ll bite….

’cause it’s waiting to be written off (of?)

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-13 05:24:13

Why is a Deadbeat like a writing desk?

Answer:

In Lewis Carroll’s book, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, the Hatter’s famous riddle - “Why is a raven like a writing desk?” - has no answer.

“Have you guessed the riddle yet?” the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.

“No, I give it up,” Alice replied. “What’s the answer?”

“I haven’t the slightest idea,” said the Hatter.

“Nor I,” said the March Hare.

Alice sighed wearily. “I think you might do something better with the time,” she said, “than wasting it in asking riddles that have no answers.”

When he wrote the book, Carroll had no answer for the riddle either, nor did he intend there to be one.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_a_raven_like_a_writing_desk - 65k

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 05:46:02

Foreclosure wait time drags to 806 days in Florida

By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 12:32 a.m. Thursday, Jan. 12, 2012

A foreclosure filed today in Florida will linger in the courts until March 28, 2014, before the bank takes possession, a timeline that has increased 40 percent in the past year.

RealtyTrac analysts, who released new foreclosure data today in a 2011 year-end report, blame the increase in time from initial filing to bank takeover on the robo-signing scandal that pushed lenders to review and redo paperwork in thousands of cases.

At 806 days, Florida ranks third nationally for the average length of time it takes to foreclose on a home, trailing only New York (1,019 days) and New Jersey (954 days). The national average is 348 days.

Another 34,819 foreclosure cases are pending in Palm Beach County courts, according to the clerk of courts office. Statewide, there’s an estimated backlog of more than 260,815 cases.

Jack McCabe, chief executive of McCabe Research & Consulting in Deerfield Beach, said he’s spoken to homeowners who have had tens of thousands of dollars trimmed off their home loan debt by lenders - an unthinkable strategy until recently.

“They seem to be doing principal reductions privately, secretly and discreetly, and don’t want to publicize it as a national policy,” he said.

Lender willingness to look at other options is also part of why RealtyTrac predicts there will be no more massive foreclosure waves, although filings will pick up through 2012 as banks recover from paperwork flaws.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/foreclosures/foreclosure-wait-time-drags-2097004.html

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-12 09:16:55

This is really bad news. It says that following the herd is a sure win for the sheep. Think about it. If you were frugal and didn’t buy into the bubble mentality of NO money down, Negative Amortization, Low payment, etc, and instead held off buying, you have been a loser.

The pigs got to “buy in” in 2005. Make MINIMUM payments for 2 years.
Default when the payments went up. (2007-2010 depending on the term of negative amortization). Sit in the house for 2 more years, waiting to get thrown out. And finally, when the “lender” does move to foreclose, you get another 3 years of Free Housing. All the maintenance and repairs are, of course, the responsibility of the lender. They have lived luxurious lifestyles for trailer park prices.

The scenario makes prudent people look foolish. Yea, I can buy a foreclosure cheap, because it’s been trashed and had no maintenance in 5 years. So, yea, it looks like a good deal, but is it really 40% less for the same house? No. It isn’t. It’s 40% less for a house that needs 40% of the selling price put into repairs.
I find this sense of lawlessness (defaulting while not paying is stealing) very concerning. We’ve seen the same attitude with MF Global. Stealing is looked upon as a way of business. This is bad for America. When trust is lost, business cannot be conducted. It will lead to major contractions in the economy. I think that’s why the FED wants to backstop all the loans. They’ve created an environment where no rational person would provide a loan for housing. It’s a sure loss. Fifty percent (50%) down would be my minimum requirement.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2012-01-12 09:39:51

“Fifty percent (50%) down would be my minimum requirement.”

+ 14%+ mortgae rates :-)

(Might kill the patient, but certainly would put.and.end.to.the.$uffering!)

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 09:41:40

“If you were frugal and didn’t buy into the bubble mentality of NO money down, Negative Amortization, Low payment, etc, and instead held off buying, you have been a loser.”

That kind of talk will get you labeled as a friend of the banksters.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 10:00:50

Yea, I can buy a foreclosure cheap, because it’s been trashed and had no maintenance in 5 years. So, yea, it looks like a good deal, but is it really 40% less for the same house? No. It isn’t. It’s 40% less for a house that needs 40% of the selling price put into repairs.

Bingo!

And, IMHO, this is why a lot of the Tucson foreclosures I’m seeing are not selling. Reason: People aren’t too interested in fixup adventures these days.

 
Comment by polly
2012-01-12 11:44:27

“defaulting while not paying is stealing”

No, it isn’t. I’ll assume you didn’t mean anything special with “defaulting while not paying.”

Defaulting on a mortgage is a violation of the terms of a contract. It is a complicated contract. There are aspects of it that are controlled by laws and regulations, and state law sets some default provisions for needed terms that are not specified in the contract. But it is not stealing.

Contract enforcement doesn’t happen in criminal courts. Civil courts don’t have to provide you with a lawyer. They can’t send you to prison. They can enforce the terms of the contract. And mortgages can have many terms, but as a general rule they either say “pay or hand over the house back once the person who legitimately owns the morgage comes forward” or they say “pay or hand over the house once the person who legitimately owns the mortgage comes forward and, by the way, that person can also come after you for the rest of the money.” That is it. Not criminal. Not nice. Not something your saintly grandmother would be proud of. Not keeping your word. But not criminal.

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-12 12:08:48

Let’s forget all the “rationalizations” about why stealing isn’t stealing, by some “legal” slight of hand. This is my whole point.
There are a particular breed of people who seek to gain economic advantage over others by attending to the “letter of the law”. In the real world, where visceral nature governs the matters of human affairs, if you are living in my house and not paying me rent, as agreed, you are a thief.
It may take 3 months for the sheriff to throw you out. So, someone like yourself would justify robbing me of my just due because the “law says” you don’t have to go until the sheriff shows you the door.
In my mind, this behavior is IMMORAL, if not illegal.
Moral behavior is the basis of a free society. When everything becomes “what you can get away with”, then trust is gone and society fails.
The entire monetary systems of the world are based on trust.
When it is gone, you will find how quickly things can change.
This is why I never trust Lawyers “LIE_YARS”, because most will cling to what is legal, with little regard to what is ethical and Moral. This is the real test of whether something is RIGHT.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by polly
2012-01-12 12:57:06

As far as I know, the differences between crimes and breaches of contract have been around for almost as long as law has been around - thousands of years at least. The lines may have been drawn in very different places, but the distinctions between doing something that is against the rules of the society and not preforming your end of an agreement between you and another person have always been there.

And anyone who enters into a contract understands that if the other party doesn’t perform their end that it may take a while to force performance (rare) or get compensation to make up for that lack of performance. If you don’t want to deal with the delays that are inherent in getting courts involved, write in a clause that requires binding arbitration within a few days and a mechanism for enforcement (like getting the payment bonded). Just don’t expect to do much business, because no one will agree to your terms.

If you want your government to enforce morals, not the law, I suggest you move elsewhere. There are countries that do it, but the US is not one of them. I think Iran is probably on the list. I, for one, will ask the goverment to restrain itself a bit because I can’t possibly know where you define every ethical breach. I gather you don’t like lies, but where does the Tooth Fairy fall on that scale? I can know what is illegal. And I can know when I violate a contract I have agreed to.

By the way, under the US system, if forclosures were criminal actions then they would take a lot longer. We have Constitutional protections in place for people who are accused of crimes. And the burden of proof on the complaining person is much higher. And the government has to pay for the accused to have a lawyer. Etc.

 
Comment by polly
2012-01-12 13:10:16

Oh, and by the way, any lawyer would agree that a tennant not paying rent doesn’t actually have to vacate until the eviction comes, but would also agree that the landlord can get the back rent owed. And the rest of the rent owed through to the end of the lease (though that has to be reduced by the amount the landlord gets by renting it out to the next tennant). And any other terms of the contract can be enforced. But they have to be terms of the contract.

You don’t really know much about lawyers, do you?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 13:25:00

Polly you know in NYC the landlord can only ask for 3 months back rent…the last time i checked…anything over that is dismissed

 
Comment by zee_in_phx
2012-01-12 13:38:02

oh dear, where to start, i’m gonna try to explain so please bear with me here: lets try the basics, we live in a society that follows a social contract, and by having a common set of rules , i.e “laws” we are somewhat ‘civilized’ in how we behave. We are all free to adopt whatever laws we deem moral, ethical, just etc depending on our morality, reason, religious inclinations, culture or history - and we do this by letting our legislator write these laws, who are voted in and out of office by us the general public. The 1st social contract was the constitution and the bills of right- and we promised as a society to not make rules that opposed the constitution or bills of right.
Now, to the subject at hand of some people ‘milking’ the system and supposedly benefting from the said laws - well, may i ask how much is a good nights sleep worth to you knowing that a notice-of-trustees-sale doesn’t have your name on it. Chances are that the folks who play fast and loose with the system do eventually pay in the form of a higher interest rate, refused loans, declined rental application e.t.c. and ofcourse Karma is a b1tc4 and it does catch up.

As for your general disdain for lawyers I think it is misplaced, well, i do agree that there may be a few bad apples, just like any other profession,. The average Joe/Jane does need a professional to decipher the stated laws and protect his/her right. As far as not being moral or ethical, thats a subjective or personal measure. For example, if you are running a company and the EPA says (its a law) that you are allowed x polutants in your waste water, would you spend more money and do better at the cost of lower profits and raises for your employees/shareholders, or would you meet the set limit and not spend the extra $$ that belong to your shareholders since you are just a trustee and have a fudiciary duty to maximize their benefits.

What i’m saying is that we are getting bent out of shape because a few low ranking selfish characters get to spend a few days rent free, while the system is being hollowed. We’re done hit the iceberg, and we are fighting on who gets the top bunk in the 3rd class.

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 13:46:24

Stealing, is by definition, criminal.

Defaulting on debt, is by definition, civil breach of contract.

Apples and Oranges.

 
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 15:11:29

Besides all that, the FBs are doing the lenders a favor staying in the houses until ordered out, for the sake of basic maintenance.

Now, if they lay waste to the property before leaving, that’s some serious moral and legal transgression.

 
Comment by Joe
2012-01-12 20:43:33

The spirit of Casey Serin lives on.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 17:39:48

I find this sense of lawlessness (defaulting while not paying is stealing) very concerning. We’ve seen the same attitude with MF Global. Stealing is looked upon as a way of business. This is bad for America. When trust is lost, business cannot be conducted.

In 2008, 95% of the electorate explicitly sanctioned Wall Street fraud and criminality by voting for the Republicrat duopoly’s statist, corporatist “choices” who made clear their intent to facilitate the greatest swindle on taxpayers and unborn generations in US history, the endless bailouts of TBTF banks and securities firms. When a population is that morally debased, it’s pretty much game over.

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 05:50:24

COMMENT from

Foreclosure wait time drags to 806 days in Florida

By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Updated: 6:35 a.m. Thursday, Jan. 12, 2012
Posted: 12:32 a.m. Thursday, Jan. 12, 2012

I’d refer Ms. Miller to this article which explains that the banks are no longer interested in foreclosing on defaulters because once the newly foreclosed homes are on their books, the banks can’t avoid the write-offs of both the negative equity as well as the worthless second liens. More generally, it keeps the trillion dollar losses hidden. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012... Interview him.

top of the morning
7:07 AM, 1/12/2012

Comment by scdave
2012-01-12 08:57:20

once the newly foreclosed homes are on their books, the banks can’t avoid the write-offs ?

Which, I believe, was legislated to allow them to still hold the asset as “preforming” even though no payments were being made…Our grand legislators figured it was a win-win-win…

Win #1. Banks are happy…
Win #2. Occupants live rent free or better yet,
collect rent on the premises while
making no payments….
Win #3. The corrupt ba$turds who pass this
legislation are treated like hero’s…

Loser #1. The rest of us who grind it out each day
to make our payments at the end of
each month…

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-01-12 09:09:11

IMO, eventually everyone loses. Who’s the winner in the Japanese post bubbles experience?

Some here want to make political points out of what’s transpired, but I’d like to emphasize another aspect; the govt is making most of the loans now. If the market is being manipulated, buyers are paying more than they would otherwise. Surely they will be poorer for it. But maybe they paid so much more that they will eventually be underwater and default. It’s possible that millions of additional foreclosures will be the result of this inventory manipulation.

What will that do to the economy, to the families involved, to the govt loan programs? This isn’t milk or even oil we’re talking about, it’s the manipulation involving the largest purchase most people will ever make.

Comment by cactus
2012-01-12 14:16:05

the govt is making most of the loans now. If the market is being manipulated, buyers are paying more than they would otherwise.’

I agree, how long do you think this will go on ? Forever ?

What will stop it ? Another depression ?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 16:49:11

“I agree, how long do you think this will go on ? Forever ?”

“Jack McCabe, chief executive of McCabe Research & Consulting in Deerfield Beach, said he’s spoken to homeowners who have had tens of thousands of dollars trimmed off their home loan debt by lenders - an unthinkable strategy until recently.

“They seem to be doing principal reductions privately, secretly and discreetly, and don’t want to publicize it as a national policy,” he said.”

“Lender willingness to look at other options is also part of why RealtyTrac predicts there will be no more massive foreclosure waves”

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 16:58:48

“Jack McCabe, chief executive of McCabe Research & Consulting in Deerfield Beach, said he’s spoken to homeowners who have had tens of thousands of dollars trimmed off their home loan debt by lenders - an unthinkable strategy until recently.

“They seem to be doing principal reductions privately, secretly and discreetly, and don’t want to publicize it as a national policy,” he said.”

Jack McCabe has contributed guest posts to the HBB. He’s a good guy, so if he says this stuff is happening, I believe him.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:11:01

Slim here to thump William K. Black’s tub again. As mentioned before, he’s the author of a control fraud how-to manual called The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One.

The book describes how a lot of the 1980s savings and loans became control frauds. Simply put, the act of control fraud is gaining control of a company so you can loot it. A more recent example would be Enron.

Black posits the theory that banks are being slow to foreclose for a reason. And that is because of control fraud. If the people, who we like to call banksters, drag their feet on foreclosing, it’s because being so slow gives them more time to loot their companies.

Makes sense to me.

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 12:40:53

I said this years ago when TARP was first created.

“It’s not about saving the economy, but about giving the 1% time to exit with their loot intact.”

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 09:55:31

The comments from…

Foreclosure wait time drags to 806 days in Florida
By Kimberly Miller Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Have been deleted.

Besides this one from “top of the morning” I had posted one ending with… “If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.”

I wonder why they were deleted?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/foreclosures/foreclosure-wait-time-drags-2097004.html

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 05:57:30

Monday, January 2, 2012
Michael Olenick: Is Shadow Housing Inventory Vastly Larger Than Widely Believed?

By Michael Olenick, founder and CEO of Legalprise, and creator of FindtheFraud, a crowd sourced foreclosure document review system (still in alpha). You can follow him on Twitter at @michael_olenick

The turn of the year is the time to make predictions and projections. I’m optimistic that the tide will finally turn for the American middle-class, suffering silently in a one-sided economic war. I don’t think this will be because of altruism, or even justice, but rather simple pragmatism. Specifically, I believe that parasitic financial institutions have pushed the boundaries so far that they’ve put their host, the middle-class itself, at risk. One new bit of information suggests the housing front is in more perilous shape than most pundits believe.

One challenge when performing any type of analysis is that information is scattered in many different places, and even when disseminated by the government its accuracy is oftentimes questionable. We’ve already seen existing home sales for recent years revised downward from their already dismal position, with barely a yawn from the public and no accountability whatsoever from government regulators who used that information when more reliable sources existed.

I don’t understand why accurate housing data, which is supposed to be open to the public, is so hard to come by. The housing crisis arguably rises to the level of a national emergency, one we can see and fee every day as it ripples through the economy. Despite that, government-owned Fannie Mae still keeps loan-level data away from the public, it’s extremely difficult to get data from Freddie Mac, and MERS’ database remains a black hole.

There is one piece of data only recently released — and, as far as I can tell, has gone unnoticed — that, if true, suggests the housing market is in such dire straits we’ve finally reached a critical mass where only radical out-of-the-box solutions will work. If this information, which comes of a highly suspect albeit well connected insider, is accurate, then extend and pretend has finally reached its natural end.

On April 15, 2011, Ft. Lauderdale, FL attorney Steve Jaffe took the deposition of former “Foreclosure King” David J. Stern. For whatever reason the transcript was not filed until Dec. 21, 2011, and with the holidays it’s taken even those of us who’ve been watching the Stern road-wreck — a group he actually hands a shout-out to towards the end – some time to plow through the 277 pages.

Forgive me for being self indulgent and giving you a sense of what Stern’s deposition is like.

Jaffe: What are your plans with the office?
Stern: I’m shutting it down.
Jaffe: How soon?
Stern: Not soon enough.
Jaffe: Why do you say it like that?
Stern: It’s done, it’s over. I have no desire to do this anymore. It’s a backstabbing business. A guy finds a way to make success and people get thrills of seeing them come crashing down, not the American dream, not the way I am.

Stern filed false court documents on such a scale that it engendered scrutiny and pushback, a rare development in our bank friendly economy. Cutting corners to fatten your wallet while throwing families out on the street doesn’t engender widespread admiration, yet Stern somehow sees himself as a victim.

Now to that revealing statistic.

For a quick bit of background, Stern took the “back-office” of his law firm public in early 2010, calling his new company DJSP. Right before his second quarter earnings release, he told investors in a meeting in New York that foreclosure filing volumes looked peachy. However, my own data showed didn’t things look great from Stern’s vantage point. Filing activity was markedly down, for him and everybody else.

During that conference Stern reassured investors. He even gave them t-shirts of himself as “Capitan DJSP,” holding back two busses with his bare hands. At the time I was relaying my data to some of Stern’s investors. It turned out my data was right; Stern’s wildly off base. What Stern knew and when he knew it was the reason he was sitting in a marathon deposition.

Here’s the excerpt that should send a chill down the spine of any housing analyst … and everybody else too.

Jaffe: .. you’re reading reports. You’re seeing volume. You’re seeing new file intakes. You’re seeing how fast they’re closing. And you’re seeing cash flow in and out of the company.
Stern: Okay.
Jaffe: And so, you have — in 2010, you have a handle on what’s happening with the business?
Stern: As the numbers are reported in the quarterly earning calls and the investors or the world, whoever elects to participate in that call is made aware of the day-to-day happenings.
Jaffe: Right. But you have that information, that institutional knowledge of your own business far in advance of those calls and reports for that matter.
Stern: When Fannie Mae comes in and sits down and says, “David, we have 600,000 shadow inventory loans,” we say “You mean, 60,000″? And they go, “No. We mean, 600,000.” And I say, “Oh, that’s nationwide”? And they go, “No 600,000 shadow inventory in the State of Florida”. Sure, I know. Yeah, it’s exciting. [Note: transcribed verbatim from the transcript.]

Let’s repeat that. In the spring or summer of 2010, before the robosigning scandal caused a massive slowdown in the number of foreclosures filed, Fannie Mae apparently had 600,000 loans they expected to foreclose upon. Not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, VHA, and private label mortgages, Fannie Mae alone.

Granted, Stern has a credibility gap; he’s clearly one of the lawyers whom FHFA Director Edward DeMarco was clearly referring to when he expressed to Congress that he was “puzzled” why state Bar associations have taken no disciplinary action. The Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) is the government agency which oversees the GSE’s.

FHFA reports that Fannie Mae’s share of total US mortgage debt, at the end of 2010, is 27.7%. If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.

It’s impossible to believe this figure is accurate. Let’s look at some data. First, the Census Bureau reports there are just under nine million housing units in the entire state at the end of 2010, 8,989,580, to be exact. According to court records between July, 2010 through December, 2011, inclusive, there were 1,044 foreclosure filings per month in Stern’s home county, Broward County, FL; 22,144 filings total. However, from January, 2009, through June, 2010, inclusive, there 2,544 monthly filings in the same county; 48,144 filings total.

If the number Stern relayed is accurate, that would put a theoretical backlog of filings, for that one county, at 26,000. If we extrapolate to the rest of this high foreclosure state it’s safe to say shadow inventory estimates for the US have been dramatically underestimated, in much the same way that existing home sales were overestimated, albeit to a much more severe degree.

One thing is certain. Either a) Stern lied during his deposition, or b) Fannie Mae lied to Stern, or c) government and non-government organizations that project shadow volume have massively blown it. On Wednesday, Dec. 21st, 2011, HousingWire reports that CoreLogic projected shadow inventory to be 1.6 million homes throughout the entire United States. If Stern relayed the information correctly, and Fannie relayed it to him correctly, that figure looks more like it could be the shadow inventory of South Florida alone. Except that would mean they expect to foreclose on about half the houses in this state, which seems … impossible.

All this calls for far more disclosure on the part of the GSE’s, regulators, and courthouses. There is no legitimate reason to keep these figures locked away behind password-protected websites. Everything from the MERS database, to the Fannie/Freddie loan-level information, to the pile of mortgages the Federal Reserve has purchased should be open. This issue rivals a pressing matter of national security: there is no reason to force investors, home buyers, and others to speculate; to search for information.

But if Stern’s figures are anywhere near accurate it makes me optimistic that 2012 will be a turning point. Why? Quoting John Maynard Keynes, the only economist who seems to know how to pull a country out of an economic depression, “If you owe your bank manager a thousand pounds, you are at his mercy,” Keynes said. “If you owe him a million pounds, he is at your mercy.”
If he’s even partially correct then congratulations, Wall Street; we’ve reached a place where the foreclosures would cause Housing Armageddon. Where the middle-class itself has become Too Big To Fail.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 07:53:35

Oh, come on. Don’t just tease us with a little snippet of the article.

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 08:07:24

Sorry Ben, I`ll try not to do that again.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:14:29

If the number Stern relayed is accurate, that would put a theoretical backlog of filings, for that one county, at 26,000. If we extrapolate to the rest of this high foreclosure state it’s safe to say shadow inventory estimates for the US have been dramatically underestimated, in much the same way that existing home sales were overestimated, albeit to a much more severe degree.

The above is the money quote from the story.

 
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 09:58:11

Fannie Mae apparently had 600,000 loans they expected to foreclose upon.

…in Florida.

LOL I love this blog.

 
Comment by cactus
2012-01-12 14:20:25

If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.

How many nation wide ? what’s the percentage ?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 18:54:14

“Michael Olenick: Is Shadow Housing Inventory Vastly Larger Than Widely Believed?”

Well d’oh!

Let me offer a hint:

Subprime will be contained to $200 bn.

– Ben Bernanke, August 2007 –

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 19:23:54

What hapless soul was tasked with assembling 1,197 pages of 2006 Fed meeting transcripts?

And by the way, we HBB posters brought up countless warnings that the fooks at the Fed managed to ignore. I guess we were too-small-to-heed?

ECONOMY
JANUARY 13, 2012

Little Alarm Shown at Fed At Dawn of Housing Bust
By JON HILSENRATH, LUCA DI LEO and MICHAEL S. DERBY

In his second meeting as chairman of the Federal Reserve in May 2006, Ben Bernanke heard a Fed governor warn about the nation’s mortgage market. But Mr. Bernanke described the cooling of the housing boom as a “healthy thing.”

“So far we are seeing, at worst, an orderly decline in the housing market,” he said.

Mr. Bernanke’s words were contained in 1,197 pages of transcripts released Thursday of closed-door Fed meetings from that year. The transcripts paint the most detailed picture yet of how top officials at the central bank didn’t anticipate the storm about to hit the U.S. economy and the global financial system.

A handful of Fed officials warned of trouble brewing. But, for the most part, officials were expecting a manageable slowdown in the housing sector, with little damage to the financial system or broader economy, the transcripts show. Mr. Bernanke predicted a “soft landing” for the economy as 2006 ended, not a housing bust that would trigger the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Mr. Bernanke has acknowledged that the Fed failed as a bank overseer before the crisis, and he has vowed to do better now that the Fed has emerged from the 2010 Dodd-Frank regulatory overhaul with more supervisory power.

Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Fed, said Thursday that once the economic turmoil hit in 2007, “the Fed did react to the crisis in a most effective way. That has now been proven. Whether we were, as a group, late to get on the stick is of course debatable.”

The transcripts show Fed officials offering praise for outgoing Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, who attended his final Fed meeting in January 2006. Timothy Geithner, then president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and now Treasury Secretary, playfully offered this forecast about Mr. Greenspan’s legacy: “I think the risk that we decide in the future that you’re even better than we think is higher than the alternative.”

Mr. Greenspan’s reputation subsequently was tarnished by the financial crisis.

The Fed is under attack by some Republican lawmakers, presidential candidates and other critics who say its easy-money policies, particularly under Mr. Greenspan, fueled the credit bubble that led to the crisis. Mr. Bernanke has said that while bad regulation contributed to the crisis, the Fed’s interest-rate policies did not. On Tuesday, supporters of Republican presidential hopeful and Fed critic Ron Paul celebrated his second-place finish in the New Hampshire primary by chanting, “End the Fed!”

The transcripts have the potential to fuel the criticism. “This reads like a broken record,” said Allan Meltzer, an economist who has written a history of the Fed through 1986. The Fed, he said, “One, gives too much weight to short-term forecasts; two, never discusses the medium-term consequences of its decisions; and three, ignores without any discussion warnings such as those that others tried to bring up.”

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 20:25:51

“So far we are seeing, at worst, an orderly decline in the housing market,” he said.

moronic

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Martin
2012-01-12 06:10:40

Is the economy really getting better? Don’t see many forclosures now. Even I’ve heard of bidding wars again on foreclosed porperties.

It this the bottom. I don’t think so. Or is it some twist 2012 being election year. How’s the job situation? Are people spending now? I don’t think so that either. Are banks finally making loans? I don’t think so.

Comment by BlueStar
2012-01-12 07:19:26

US foreclosure rate lowest since pre-recession. Down 34% in 2011 and at lowest rate since 2007.
“Foreclosures were in full delay mode in 2011, resulting in a dramatic drop in foreclosure activity for the year,” RealtyTrac CEO Brandon Moore said in a statement.

The listing firm anticipates that 2012’s foreclosure rate will be higher than last year’s, but will remain below the peak of 2010.

RealtyTrac said that 2011’s foreclosure activity is 34 percent lower than 2010 and the lowest since 2007.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i3NcRc2dniCYJSpe2KNQ9Cqubjtg?docId=c50503206c144f8bafd28e7d4475fd77

 
Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 07:56:15

Half of this country’s workers earn less than $500/week, ask them how things are really getting better.

Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 08:00:13

And adding to that, see also the Bloomberg article I posted yesterday in which reported “only about 7 percent of those who lost jobs after the 2008 financial crisis have found work that matched or exceeded their previous job”

Comment by SDGreg
2012-01-12 12:17:12

How many that didn’t lose jobs could make a similar statement about their financial situation being worse too?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2012-01-12 09:48:51

“Is the economy really getting better?”

Since Jan 1st 2008, how many folks are in the po$ition of having to replace their tire$ & toothpa$te?

Repeat Duracell Customer$ are a way of life! ;-)

MTV melody:

We want our …
We want our …
We want our mortgage loan$!

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 06:13:55

I listened to a podcast of McBride and Jim The ReaIt-Liar….. I’m now convinced he’s a NAR and most likely a CAR proxy and that POS he calls a blog is a conduit for NAR/CAR propaganda.

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 06:24:18

RAL

I thought you might enjoy this video of yet another “honest” Realtor.

Posted: Jan 11, 2012 8:54 AM
Updated: Jan 11, 2012 8:55 AM

(NBC) - A 12-year-old California girl set up her laptop web-camera to try and catch her sisters going through her room while she way not home.

Instead police say she videotaped a real estate agent stealing her stuff.

Hallie Pritchard says she positioned her laptop camera perfectly to catch the thief.

The computer savvy tween didn’t know her parents had scheduled a last minute open house with a realtor.

What ended up happening next caught everyone by surprise.

The recording revealed a man rifling through Hallie’s drawers.

Police identified as douglas John Calandrella, a former real estate agent previously convicted in 2010 of stealing from open houses and selling the goods on eBay.

Police say Calandrella sold more than 50 stolen items and got caught when a victim bought his own property online.

Calandrella had an accomplice who kept the Pritchard’s real estate agents distracted while he made his way through the house.

The Pritchards turned over the video to the real estate agents showing their home.

They recognized him and contacted police.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/tween-busts-thief-with-hidden-camera/ - 38k -

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 07:58:03

You can’t fix that kind of stupid.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 13:19:31

You mean you can’t reform the corrupt reaItor mind.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2012-01-12 08:52:01

I see debt people.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:16:19

I listened to a podcast of McBride and Jim The ReaIt-Liar….. I’m now convinced he’s a NAR and most likely a CAR proxy and that POS he calls a blog is a conduit for NAR/CAR propaganda.

Jim the Realt-Liar has long struck me as one of those full-of-himself sleazeballs that you’d better not turn your back on. Not even for a nanosecond. I can barely stand to listen to the guy.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 09:48:36

Thank you for hearing me AZ.

All the NAR lies are just beneath the surface of McBrides articles and language he uses on his blog. It never dawned on me until I listened to the podcast.

Take note brothers and sisters.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 10:25:36

You’re welcome, Realtors Are Liars®. And thank you for confirming the icky feeling that I’ve long had about Jim the Realt-Liar.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 16:15:53

Hey McBride…. how much is NAR and CAR paying you?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Trapper
2012-01-12 06:20:12

I am doing a group presentation on the September 2008 banking crisis.
I would like input on what advice Bernanke,Paulson, and Blankfein gave to President Bush to arrive at his decisions.
T

Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 06:27:16

“Hey, cowboy, sign off on this or this sucker’s going down.” (They didn’t realize he’d blurt that out on national television afterwards.)

 
Comment by rms
2012-01-12 08:36:36

I am doing a group presentation on the September 2008 banking crisis.
I would like input on what advice Bernanke,Paulson, and Blankfein gave to President Bush to arrive at his decisions.

Our neo-con occupiers played Dubya like a Stradivarius violin.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 17:42:24

Google is your friend.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 17:46:18

Trapper,

Read “House of Cards” (about the collapse of Bear Stearns) if you want a deeper understanding of the astonishing level of systemic fraud and deception on Wall Street, and the role of the Fed and Treasury in picking winners and losers (while shafting taxpayers and retail investors) in our crony capitalist economy.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 06:22:21

Looks like OWS got its message through.

Americans see rich and poor in conflict, study finds

(Reuters) - Americans believe that there is more conflict between rich and poor than between immigrants and the native-born or between blacks and whites, according to a Pew Research Center opinion survey released on Wednesday.

Researchers found 30 percent of Americans say there are “very strong conflicts” between the poor and the rich, which is the largest share expressing that opinion since the question was first asked in 1987, the Pew report said.

In all, 66 percent of respondents to the Pew survey said there are either “very strong” or “strong” conflicts between rich and poor.

Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 08:02:55

As Ben has posted here before this is about up vs. down and not left vs. right.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 09:52:17

this is about up vs. down and not left vs. right

Is it not both? If (in general) the middle-class has gone “down” because of policies of the neo-right, (my opinion) then why is it not a right vs left thing too?

And if it is in fact a neo-right pattern to enact policies that send the middle-class “down” (my general opinion) then is it reasonable to expect those on the left can actually “reach out” to the right and try to find “common ground” in an effective manner to promote change?

I say those on the “left” can “reach out” to those in the middle but those on the far right? I can reach out to Ann Coulter? She’d bite my hand off and spit it out on floor. Many on the far-right have no interest in many facts and won’t listen to them anyway so they need to be hit with the facts hard and consistently. Why? To affect them? Maybe a little but the most important thing on blogs and in news editorials, is that hitting them hard with facts and pointing out their illogic and hypocrisy makes those in the center aware of the facts. But if you mollycoddle those on the right by “reaching out” in a touchy-feely way, you’re never going to present the fact effective enough to sway the center. No?

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2012-01-12 16:31:53

“…is that hitting them hard with facts and pointing out their illogic and hypocrisy makes those in the center aware of the facts.”

Three cheers! :-)

Hwy50 throws back a Mr. Cole’s Wambanger!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 06:40:17

Does it seem to others that the Fed is trying to expand its power by redefining monetary policy beyond its traditional narrow scope?

January 6, 2012, 10:00 AM

Fed’s Dudley: Housing and Monetary Policy Are Complements
By Michael S. Derby

In a speech calling for a host of policy actions to aid the housing market, a top Federal Reserve official also said Friday the central bank may have to provide more stimulus to help the economy.

“Because the outlook for unemployment is unacceptably high relative to our dual mandate and the outlook for inflation is moderate, I believe it is also appropriate to continue to evaluate whether we could provide additional accommodation in a manner that produces more benefits than costs, regardless of whether action in housing is undertaken or not,” Federal Reserve Bank of New York President William Dudley said.

He noted that as the Fed tries to aid the economy, and address the central role the weak housing market plays in impeding the recovery, the institution cannot go it alone. He said, “monetary policy and housing policy are much more complements than substitutes.”

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 08:00:46

Unpossible!

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 06:43:33

January 12, 2012, 8:26 AM

Testing the Limits of Fed Power
By Neal Lipschutz

“I am sure that the Fed would not appreciate a white paper from Congress outlining how to think about and execute monetary policy.”

No, indeed. Such a gesture also would not be appreciated by investors world-wide who understand an independent central bank is crucial to a modern, complex economy.

There’s nothing like an ongoing crisis to hash out the desirable limits of Federal Reserve power. The danger for the Fed, in testing those limits in the interests of serving its mandates of economic growth and inflation control, is if the test sparks a backlash that shoves the Fed back behind the starting point.

But this is an active Fed, led by Chairman Ben Bernanke, and push it will.

The quote above is from Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah), ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee. What’s got the senator’s ire up is the recent white paper the U.S. central bank issued with Fed staff recommendations about what to do about the housing mess that’s still at the center of a struggling, albeit slowly growing, economy.

The white paper on housing is just the latest salvo in the Fed-Congress dance of contentiousness that’s been going on since the financial crisis sprung upon us full force in 2008.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 06:43:52

Shadow Inventory Vastly Larger Than Believed
Shadow Inventory Vastly Larger Than Believed By Michael Olenick, Naked Capitalism, Jan. 3, 2012 In a 2011 deposition, Florida attorney David J. Stern said Fannie Mae apparently had 600,000 loans they expected to foreclose upon in Florida. Not Fannie Mae.( read more ). Fannie Mae foreclsoures
Foreclosure Pulse - Tuesday, January 3, 2012

http://browse.realtytrac.com/inventory/ - 55k -

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 07:42:17

“Here’s the excerpt that should send a chill down the spine of any housing analyst … and everybody else too.”

Jaffe: And so, you have — in 2010, you have a handle on what’s happening with the business?
Stern: As the numbers are reported in the quarterly earning calls and the investors or the world, whoever elects to participate in that call is made aware of the day-to-day happenings.
Jaffe: Right. But you have that information, that institutional knowledge of your own business far in advance of those calls and reports for that matter.
Stern: When Fannie Mae comes in and sits down and says, “David, we have 600,000 shadow inventory loans,” we say “You mean, 60,000″? And they go, “No. We mean, 600,000.” And I say, “Oh, that’s nationwide”? And they go, “No 600,000 shadow inventory in the State of Florida”. Sure, I know. Yeah, it’s exciting. [Note: transcribed verbatim from the transcript.]

Let’s repeat that. In the spring or summer of 2010, before the robosigning scandal caused a massive slowdown in the number of foreclosures filed, Fannie Mae apparently had 600,000 loans they expected to foreclose upon. Not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, VHA, and private label mortgages, Fannie Mae alone.

FHFA reports that Fannie Mae’s share of total US mortgage debt, at the end of 2010, is 27.7%. If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.

If the number Stern relayed is accurate, that would put a theoretical backlog of filings, for that one county, at 26,000. If we extrapolate to the rest of this high foreclosure state it’s safe to say shadow inventory estimates for the US have been dramatically underestimated, in much the same way that existing home sales were overestimated, albeit to a much more severe degree.

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 08:04:43

whoa

Good find.

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 08:10:47

I posted the whole thing above but alpha yelled at me. :(

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 12:47:32

Well… Ben does have this policy of not wanting the posting of long articles, just relevant snippets with links.

Still, good find.

It shows that the shadow inventory is MORE than enough to bankrupt us for decades as well as literally take down other countries.

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:41:29

Shadow Inventory Vastly Larger Than Believed

Imagine how big it would be if they evicted all the “deadbeats”.

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 08:45:34

“Imagine how big it would be if they evicted all the “deadbeats”.”

I would take one.

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 09:21:08

The whole point of it being shadow inventory is so that the banksters DON’T have to sell it to you at a true market value. The “deadbeats” are just another form of the shadow inventory. This is happening because it helps the banksters, not the “deadbeats”. Some non payers might think they are clever by living rent free, but they are merely pawns in the banksters game, which will end, and when that happens the free rent will end as well.

But even if all the “deadbeats” are evicted nothing would change, the houses would be absorbed into the shadow inventory and sit empty. They would not be offered for sale while prices stay high. And as long as the Fed is willing to lend then money at 0% interest they can play their game for a very long time.

You might be angry because you were responsible and didn’t buy a house you couldn’t afford, but the banksters don’t care that you were responsible. You might feel that you are entitled to buy a house on the cheap, but the banksters disagree. Guess who wins?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by SDGreg
2012-01-12 12:30:42

“But even if all the “deadbeats” are evicted nothing would change, the houses would be absorbed into the shadow inventory and sit empty.”

Of course. And some of those that were evicted would end up in rental housing, pushing up rents in a market with artificially constricted supply.

At this point, I favor almost any approach to get a lot more of that vacant housing occupied. The banks could do it, but have chosen otherwise.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 12:40:32

“If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.”

No mention of all the people I “claim” are living for free?

“You might feel that you are entitled to buy a house on the cheap”

I never said that, the whole time I have been on this blog (about 7 years) I have said I wanted a house I could afford at a price that was NOT artificially inflated. IMHO wanting a house for $150 - $175k in a decent neighborhood is not cheap, it`s fair. The banksters don’t care, the Deadbeats don’t care and yes I am angry.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 16:13:54

I never said that, the whole time I have been on this blog (about 7 years) I have said I wanted a house I could afford at a price that was NOT artificially inflated.

OK, that’s what I meant by “cheap”. The Banksters still don’t care. They want you to overpay, and will use the “deadbeats” to make sure that you do.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 19:05:45

“Florida attorney David J. Stern said Fannie Mae apparently had 600,000 loans they expected to foreclose upon in Florida.”

Suppose (perhaps counterfactually) that the rest of the country had a comparable share of their housing markets in line for future Fannie Mae foreclosures. Then we could scale up from 600K to get a national figure for loans Fannie Mae foreclosures:

US Population 308,745,538 — 2010
FL Population 18,537,969 - Jul 2009

Projected number of homes in line for future foreclosures:

(308,745,538/18,537,969)*600,000 = 10 million (with only slight rounding).

Luckily, it’s different in Florida!

No wonder the CEO resigned!

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 20:17:57

“FHFA reports that Fannie Mae’s share of total US mortgage debt, at the end of 2010, is 27.7%. If Fannie Mae really does have 600,000 homes they expect to foreclose upon we’d expect to see about 2,165,000 shadow inventory homes total .. in Florida.”

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 06:45:20

January 11, 2012 5:00 AM text size: TT
Bernanke Doubles Down on Fed Bet Defied by Recession: Mortgages

Jan. 11 (Bloomberg) — Ben S. Bernanke is signaling his willingness to double down on a three-year bet that’s failed to revive housing, showing the extent of the Federal Reserve chairman’s effort to wrest a recovery from the deepest recession.

Since the Fed started buying $1.25 trillion of mortgage bonds in January 2009, the value of U.S. housing has fallen 4.1 percent, and is down 32 percent from its 2006 peak, according to an S&P/Case-Shiller index. The central bank is poised to buy about $200 billion this year, or more than 20 percent of new loans, as it reinvests debt that’s being paid off. Some Fed officials have said they may support additional purchases that Barclays Capital estimates could total as much as $750 billion.

Even as Bernanke and fellow U.S. central bankers consider expanding their efforts, they are acknowledging their inability to turn around the housing market without help from the rest of the government. Bernanke underscored the importance of residential real estate, which represents 15 percent of the economy, in a study he sent to Congress last week that said ending the slump is necessary for a broader recovery.

“They’re definitely frustrated and disappointed,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Pierpont Securities LLC and a former Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond researcher. “I’m sure they would have anticipated they would have gotten more bang for their buck.”

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:43:01

Even as Bernanke and fellow U.S. central bankers consider expanding their efforts, they are acknowledging their inability to turn around the housing market without help from the rest of the government.

Are they really expecting the Lucky Duckies to go out and buy a house just because mortgage rates are low?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2012-01-12 11:45:03

I think you already know the answer to that one. :-)

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 19:04:51

Even as Bernanke and fellow U.S. central bankers consider expanding their efforts, they are acknowledging their inability to turn around the housing market without help from the rest of the government.

This isn’t about “turning around the housing market.” It’s about Bernanke transfering toxic mortgages from his bankster accomplices to American taxpayers.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 06:47:28

1/11/2012 @ 4:14PM |3,370 views
Fed Says Economy Expanding, Housing Market Still Dead

Bernanke is doing something right, but he can’t get housing to come back to life

The U.S. economic recovery marches on, the latest Fed Beige Book shows. Covering the month of December, all twelve Fed districts noted some level of expansion in activity, as the economy rode the holiday wave and increased consumption trends vis-à-vis 2010. Still, commercial and residential real estate remains weak, prompting a response by three Fed governors noting they were failing at pumping life into the beleaguered sector.

Stronger consumer spending was the biggest positive data point to come out of Wednesday’s report, “reflecting significant gains in holiday retail sales compared with last year’s season.” The Beige Book confirms other reports showing the U.S. economy is indeed expanding, namely the latest jobs report which registered a 200,000 increase in jobs in December.

Despite heavy criticism, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke can once again point to concrete evidence that his attempts to support the economy have, to some extent, worked. Inflation, one of the most important data points, continued to ease as “prior increases in the costs of selected inputs have eased.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:18:49

Bernanke is doing something right, but he can’t get housing to come back to life

Because you can’t beat a dead horse back to life.

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 12:59:45

You don’t know the aristocracy very well, do you?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 19:09:24

Was Jesus an aristocrat?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 09:31:34

The U.S. economic recovery marches on

Tell that to the swelling ranks of Lucky Duckies, families on foodstamps or food banks with empty shelves.

The economy might be growing but all the wealth is still going to the top. As much as the Masters of the Universe and the Davos crowd hates to admit it, income inequality does matter. Or to put it plainly: We have more poor people than ever and poor people don’t buy houses or cars.

So Christmas sales were up. Big whoop! We have already seen articles posted on this blog documenting that spending on necesities grew (because there really is inflation) while spending on wants fell during the “holiday” (AKA Christmas) shopping season.

I guess the good news is that you can get a really good deal on an HDTV. The bad news is that after coming back from the grocery store/gas station/doctor’s office, you don’t have any money left over to buy it.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 06:51:26

Maybe, just maybe, if the Fed can succeed in providing massive amounts of taxpayer-funded housing market stimulus in 2012, this bottom call will prove correct.

Lennar orders jump, says housing market stabilizing

A Lennar model home is open for customers in a new neighborhood in the Denver suburb of Thornton, Colorado March 29, 2011. REUTERS/Rick Wilking

By A. Ananthalakshmi

Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:13pm EST

(Reuters) - Lennar Corp (LEN.N), the third-largest U.S. homebuilder, reported a third straight quarter of order growth and said the housing market is bottoming out after a prolonged downturn.

Shares of the company jumped 9 percent to a three-and-a-half year high of $22.52 on Wednesday on the New York Stock Exchange.

They pared some gains and were trading up 7 percent at $22.22. About 1.2 million shares changed hands, more than their daily average volume.

Stocks of other homebuilders, such as KB Homes (KBH.N), PulteGroup (PHM.N) and DR Horton (DHI.N), were also up.

The S&P homebuilding sub-industry index .GSPHOME was up 5 percent, while the broader market .SPX was down slightly.

“As I look ahead to 2012, I am cautiously optimistic that we are seeing a real bottom form, and we will begin to see signs of recovery,” Lennar CEO Stuart Miller said on a conference call.

Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 08:17:35

Who the hell would actually want to live in Thornton? Yuck

And from the WSJ - Poll: Don’t Tread on My Mortgage-Interest Deduction

“The National Association of Home Builders has a message for political candidates: Americans don’t want anyone messing with the popular mortgage-interest tax deduction.

The tax break is favored by the real estate industry but is the bane of most economists. They consider it a waste of money amid concern about the federal budget deficit.

These critics argue that it does little to help lower-income homeowners make the transition from renters to owners. Instead, they say, it simply encourages upper income buyers to purchase larger homes and take out bigger mortgages.

The NAHB’s survey of about 1,500 likely voters, conducted from Jan. 2-5, found that a whopping 73% of those surveyed opposed eliminating the home deduction.”

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:36:04

Who the hell would actually want to live in Thornton? Yuck

Not the nicest place in metro Denver.

Have you seen that development over by DIA? I think i’ts called “Reunion” or something like that. Who would want to live over there?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 09:21:50

Have you seen that development over by DIA? I think i’ts called “Reunion” or something like that. Who would want to live over there?

Plane spotters.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 07:19:06

Is there any reason to expect this bizarre-sounding policy to work better in Spain than it would work in the U.S.?

BUSINESS
JANUARY 11, 2012

Spanish Banks Try to Build Their Way Out of Home Glut
By SARA SCHAEFER MUÑOZ And ILAN BRAT

Spain continues to build more homes despite hundreds of thousands of empty properties. Why are the banks funding these developments? WSJ’s Sara Schaefer Munoz reports on this counter-intuitive policy.

MADRID—On a weedy dirt lot here, lender Bankia is pursuing its answer to a banking and property crisis that has left Spain with a glut of around one million vacant homes. Its approach: Build even more.

Bankia and a local developer plan to build a 212-unit housing complex featuring a gym and movie theater on the central Madrid site where a bus station once stood. Construction begins early this year, even though sales of existing properties are practically nonexistent and only 45 of the planned new units have been sold in advance.

“The market is at a standstill,” said César Cabal, a real-estate broker working with the developers.

The drive to keep building in a housing market drowning in empty properties shows the depth of Spain’s banking crisis. The country’s housing bust saddled banks with not just vacant homes, but also billions of euros worth of undeveloped land.

Yet rather than writing off the land as a loss and attempting to sell it, Bankia and its peers have begun selectively building on empty lots. In some cases there are buyers lined up but in other cases there aren’t.

Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 08:06:58

…because god forbid businesses should pay the very engine of the modern consumer economy, enough money to afford a house, the people.

Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 08:39:17

Pay the workers? That’s just crazy talk.

And from the NY Times - Foxconn Resolves Pay Dispute With Workers:

“Foxconn Technology, the largest contract electronics manufacturer in the world, said Thursday that it had resolved a pay dispute with scores of workers at one of its factories in central China, following a large protest that involved threats by some workers to commit suicide by leaping from the top of a factory building.

One worker who participated in the Wuhan protest said by telephone that workers shifted to Wuhan had been promised about $450 a month in salary, including overtime pay, but that they had been given about a third less than that and that working conditions in Wuhan were much more difficult.”

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:51:24

It seems that we have some global economic trends:

1) The inability to provide anything close to full employmemt.
2) The inability to provide living wages, to the point where workers threaten to commit suicide.

Sometimes I wonder if the current system (whatever you want to call it) cannot help but collapse. The question then is: what next? Do we all become communists?

I know that those who call for sustainable systems are ridiculed and shouted down on the global stage, but what’s going to happen when we can no longer jump start the infinite growth in a finite world? The current global economic model is predicated on that. Even when there is small growth the hordes of unemployed comtinues to swell around the world.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 09:23:47

Colorado:

And we make it impossible for those on Welfare or Unemployment to work at an intern or volunteer job to keep the resume up to date…and keep the payments coming in…so the system promotes idleness.

 
Comment by DudgeonBludgeon
2012-01-12 09:58:54

Collapse? Why would the system collapse? Feudalism was a stable economic system for 500 years.

Human beings are profoundly adaptable so I doubt any collapse is inevitable. I am sure you agree. What we will more likely see is a slow decline in living standards as we all race to the bottom.
Visit any developing 2nd world economy to see our future. It really is that straight forward.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 10:00:00

“what’s going to happen when we can no longer jump start the infinite growth in a finite world?”

It’s going to be an interesting day when infinite growth meets finite resources, that’s for sure.

To the stars, and beyond?

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 10:32:04

Why would the system collapse? Feudalism was a stable economic system for 500 years.

But I think they only had dial-up internet back then.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 11:44:13

“Collapse? Why would the system collapse? Feudalism was a stable economic system for 500 years.”

A long time ago I read Hilaire Belloc’s “Crisis of Civilization”. Apparently during feudal times everyone had a job, unlike today.

 
Comment by Elanor
2012-01-12 13:06:44

Apparently during feudal times everyone had a job, unlike today.

They also lived in hovels, were often on the edge of starvation, and had to give a share of whatever they produced or grew to their overlord. So, very much like today for some Lucky Duckies.

 
Comment by Steve J
2012-01-12 13:10:06

Of course, beggar was an occupation in the Middle Ages.

 
Comment by drumminj
2012-01-12 14:39:11

had to give a share of whatever they produced or grew to their overlord

Sounds kind of like our current tax structure, eh?

The more things change…

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 15:15:18

“had to give a share of whatever they produced or grew to their overlord

Sounds kind of like our current tax structure, eh?”

That’s the obvious comparison, but to me it also kind of sounds like Tyson chicken paying its farmers and laborers poorly to produce poor-quality chickens cheaply so that financiers, large shareholders and CEOs (i.e. the real overlords) could reap the rewards. But each to his own world view, I suppose.

 
Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-01-12 16:05:28

More like today’s corporate feudalism.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 19:06:49

When will “right of first night” be reinstated for the plutocrats?

 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 09:08:11

So, they were making $300 a month? And they wanted $450 a month? I wonder how many hours that was.

For those keeping track at home… assuming $450 for 40 hours a week… 40*52/12 = 173 hours a month. $300 a month would be $1.73 an hour while $450 a month is $2.30 an hour (but they mention that was with promised overtime, so this is likely high).

So, in yesterday’s appearances by Romney when he talked about working with business to figure out what it will take to bring manufacturing jobs back to the USA… well, there is your answer.

$2 an hour wages.

Not sure who will be buying any of these manufactured goods when everyone is making $2 an hour. Of course, seeing that would require a capitalist to see beyond the tip of their own nose, something they’ve proven unable to do.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 09:33:34

My OJ is from China, and now there is a shortage of OJ and prices are skyrocketing, and we have all these beautiful houses on once was fl orange groves…neat kool … way to go

What will it take???? 1st step wont cost us a dime…..let business bring back all overseas earnings tax free if they spend it on Americans in America….we get zero tax now….you just cant use the money to lower the amount of employees you have.

you cant pay bonuses unless the janitor and secretary get the same percentage, cant be used as dividends or stock buy backs..

You cant acquire or merge unless total employment of the merged companies goes up….almost never happens

 
Comment by Steve J
2012-01-12 09:36:24

They work 6 days a week in Chinese factories. Don’t forget to subtract out the money they have to pay to live in the company dorms.

 
Comment by polly
2012-01-12 10:01:17

And I don’t think you can assume 40 hours a week before they start getting overtime. It could be a lot higher than that.

 
Comment by m2p
2012-01-12 10:56:19

“My OJ is from China, and now there is a shortage of OJ and prices are skyrocketing, and we have all these beautiful houses on once was fl orange groves…neat kool … way to go”

I’d switch to apple,

Determined not to let orange juice double as unintentional contraception, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has frozen shipments to check for carbendazim, a fungicide banned in much of the world that is believed to cause infertility. As much as 25 percent of the American juice supply comes from abroad, and the FDA acted on a report that a juice company detected the fungicide in imports from Brazil, which provides 11 percent of America’s OJ.

link

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 11:26:19

langers 1/2 gal 2 for $4 this week i stocked up

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 11:31:18

“My OJ is from China”

Can’t you just vote with you dollar and not buy OJ from China? Buy the fruit, squeeze it and compost the skin and pulp. Double bonus!

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 11:52:05

good idea but not much dirt around here to compost it in….and a smallish refridge…it is NYC….I wish i had a behemoth one like youz guyz or a space to put a small freezer 2nd refridge but not here.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 13:16:10

We do have that space — now. Before we just had an old plastic file bin with holes drilled in it. Red worms will eat your (non-meat/non-dairy) garbage in very little space and with no smell!

Just got the S.O. a wood Maison-de-Vers for Christmas [Yep, I'm a romantic] for an upgrade to their housing situation. Little do the worms know that I’ve signed them up for an interest only ARM! Bwahahaha!

 
Comment by zee_in_phx
2012-01-12 13:57:40

this past weekend i was at the dollar store, and saw a nice little glass can of apple jam, it had a bow tie and a fancy label, the kind you would see from a local orchard doing its own canning. i was curious to see where it came from , assuming some farm in CA is unloading its overstock, lo and behold it was from China. I put it right back on the shelf, wiped my hand on my trousers and walked off - trying to do the math of the logistics involved in getting it here to the desert and selling it for a full buck without loosing money.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 15:18:44

If it can save some muckety-muck a nickel a gross to hire a consultant to explain reverse supply-chain management (or some other biz-speak) so that he (or she) can buy a new yacht, it will be done. Don’t worry, Dude, there are ways.

 
 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 10:28:53

$450 a month in salary, including overtime pay, but that they had been given about a third less than that and that working conditions in Wuhan were much more difficult.

My advice to China would be to bust that union good and get rid of their OSHA and EPA.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 08:15:37

Completely broke now or completely broke later…. which is better?

The obvious answer is to use more of other peoples’ money to keep building so that you are broke later instead of now.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 07:32:51

By Caroline Salas Gage
January 10, 2012 5:11 PM EST

Dudley, Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren and Fed Governor Elizabeth Duke all also said last week that the U.S. government should try new ways to spur the housing market, without agreeing about how much more the central bank needs to do to bring down interest rates. San Francisco Fed President John Williams today called for federal programs to support housing and “tax and spending policies” that would complement the central bank’s moves.

Dudley said Jan. 6 that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should allow underwater borrowers, those who owe more on their mortgage than their home is worth, to pay off their loan below par if certain conditions are met including that the borrower stays current on payments.

‘Wealth Transfer’

“Reducing the principal on home loans for borrowers who put no money down amounts to a massive wealth transfer from places like Tennessee, where most homeowners have borrowed responsibly, to places like California and New York, where exotic mortgages were widely used to finance a speculative housing boom,” Corker said in Nashville, Tennessee, before the Greater Nashville Association of Realtors, according to a statement from his office.

“It is absolutely egregious that the Federal Reserve would insert itself in this manner and ask people in Tennessee who played by the rules to bail out reckless borrowers in other parts of the country,” Corker said.

Krishna Guha, a spokesman for the New York Fed, declined to comment.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-10/republican-senators-criticize-fed-recommendations-on-housing?category=%2Fnews%2Fus%2F - 23k

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 08:29:12

So… what? The private sector is tapped out on debt, so government is forced to run $1.5T a year deficits to provide the new debt/money the economy needs to function.

So, the solution is, what? To go back to 2006… Rapidly increasing real estate prices to provide the collateral for ever more unsustainable private sector debt growth?

If the goal is just to put a floor under prices rather than restart the boom, well, that is still a problem that the jobs have to come first. The meager job growth we are seeing now is pathetic in the face of $1.5T a year deficits and 0% interest rates. We’re either going to have to shrink the deficits, or old man market will jack up our interest rates…either of these will put us back into collapse mode.

TARP, QE, easing of FASB157 so companies can lie about the value of the assets, and $1.5T a year deficits have given us time….. A bridge to what comes next…. The problem is, what comes next?

Delay and pray…. still in full effect.

 
Comment by cactus
2012-01-12 14:29:00

“It is absolutely egregious that the Federal Reserve would insert itself in this manner and ask people in Tennessee who played by the rules to bail out reckless borrowers in other parts of the country,” Corker said. ”

the FED has made debtors out of people not even born yet.

 
 
Comment by Beer and Cigar Guy
2012-01-12 07:40:20

VERY good article regarding ’shadow inventory’ levels and lender’s behavior over at Naked Capitalism. Michael Olenick brings up some observations that appear to ring true.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/01/michael-olenick-10-million-shadow-inventory-says-housing-market-is-a-long-way-from-the-bottom.html

Snip:
“…Put more simply, things are actually worse than any of the prevailing estimates indicates, although Goodman is very close to the mark. Current loss experience suggests that this figure is staggering, easily in the $1 trillion range.

Why aren’t those losses more visible yet? Well, evidence suggests that servicers are stalling the foreclosure process, not taking title to and selling these houses. For the lenders, such delay likely allows them avoid the write-offs of both the negative equity as well as the worthless second liens. More generally, it keeps the trillion dollar losses hidden. Lenders aren’t acknowledging their stall tactics, however. When people notice how slowly foreclosures are progressing from initial steps to resale, lenders point at their foreclosure fraud related dysfunction. Lenders conveniently don’t mention that such dysfunction was self-induced, instead blaming borrowers and courts. “

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-01-12 07:52:31

‘When people notice how slowly foreclosures are progressing from initial steps to resale, lenders point at their foreclosure fraud related dysfunction’

I’ve been saying that the asset managers are using the robo-signing as an excuse to manipulate the market.

‘Lenders conveniently don’t mention that such dysfunction was self-induced, instead blaming borrowers and courts’

Who cares about the blame game? What’s going on at the Federal level to stop this market manipulation? This is their responsibility dammit.

Oh, yeah, they are trying to keep prices higher…

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 08:38:03

If the medicine will kill the patient,people are not in a hurry to administer it.

Never forget, the one thing that stopped the 2007-2008 crash was the easing of FASB157 so banks and other financial companies could lie about the value of assets they hold.

TARP was 6 months before the bottom. Stimulus was 2 months before bottom. 0% interest, mass bailouts, etc. etc. etc. None of it stopped the crash.

The bottom was hit the very week that FASB announced they were submitting a proposal to ease rule 157 that required mark to market accounting.

If they are forced to admit the truth about the value of the assets, by, say… completing the foreclosure and booking the loss… we’re back in full economic collapse mode.

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:53:42

If they are forced to admit the truth about the value of the assets, by, say… completing the foreclosure and booking the loss… we’re back in full economic collapse mode.

Agreed. We have a global economic system that doesn’t work, which has generated trillions in debts that cannot be repaid.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2012-01-12 11:35:26

‘If they are forced to admit the truth about the value of the assets, by, say… completing the foreclosure and booking the loss… we’re back in full economic collapse mode.’

You betcha!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 07:54:48

Get that cat back in the bag!

Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 08:12:46

Yep. That article ruins a whole propaganda campaign against the ‘deadbeats’.

Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 08:33:32

(CBS News)
April 1, 2011 10:29 AM

“In my mind this is an absolute, intentional fraud,” Lynn Szymoniak, who is fighting foreclosure, told Pelley.

While trying to save her house, she discovered something we did not know: back when Wall Street was using algorithms and computers to engineer those disastrous mortgage-backed securities, it appears they didn’t want old fashioned paperwork slowing down the profits.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/01/60minutes/main20049646.shtml - 105k -

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 5/8/1998 03:10:33
CFN: 19980172276
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 10392/990
Pages: 6
Consideration: $314,200.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: FIRST BK FL
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 7/18/2001 09:36:59
CFN: 20010305701
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 12737/1072
Pages: 5
Consideration: $220,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: FIRST UN NAT BK
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 9/15/2004 17:18:11
CFN: 20040527663
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 17516/209
Pages: 6
Consideration: $270,269.69
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: WACHOVIA BANK NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 1/3/2005 11:28:53
CFN: 20050001026
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 17961/1035
Pages: 4
Consideration: $415,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: USA SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 2/15/2006 08:27:13
CFN: 20060092890
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 19933/1827
Pages: 14
Consideration: $780,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
Party 2: OPTION ONE MORTGAGE CORPORATION
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

Type: LP
Date/Time: 8/6/2008 16:00:12
CFN: 20080293601
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 22796/1110
Pages: 1
Consideration: $0.00
Party 1: DEUTSCHE BANK NATIONAL TRUST COMPANY TRUSTEE
Party 2: SZYMONIAK LYNN E
SZYMONIAK SPOUSE
DOE JOHN
DOE JANE
Legal: HORSHOE AC W. RPL B5 L12 BL

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 08:44:40

That’s one of your faves, isn’t it? She lives for free in a big house in your head.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 08:51:12

“That’s one of your faves, isn’t it? She lives for free in a big house in your head.”

Actually she lives in a big house for free with about $500k in her pocketbook.

 
Comment by Insurance Guy
2012-01-12 09:02:09

Lynn is a good person. Her name comes up because she was the first to notice the robo-signers. She wrote an article “An Officer of Too Many Banks”. It kinda snowballed after that.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 09:19:24

Type: MTG
Date/Time: 7/18/2001 09:36:59
Consideration: $220,000.00
Party 1: SZYMONIAK LYNN E

It kinda snowballed after that.

 
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 10:27:10

Our rights are enforced by the efforts of some awfully unsavory characters.

 
Comment by Insurance Guy
2012-01-12 11:19:38

I consider the whole thing a fever that swept normally responsible people and causes them to lose their judgement. They do not need to be stoned in the public square. Having a mortgage that is upside down does not make one “unsavory”.

But it was I who responded and caused the remarks to be made so I will just drop it going forward.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 14:42:24

“Having a mortgage that is upside down does not make one “unsavory”.

Agreed. Going on 60 minutes and saying….

“it appears they didn’t want old fashioned paperwork slowing down the profits.”

After you have taken out hundreds of thousands of $ out of your ATM that you call your house and forgetting to mention it to a national audience is “unsavory”.

 
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 15:56:12

The unsavory part is the serial refinancing..totally legal and “rational” in the context of the times however.

But the parties who bring these cases or win a defense often are not the white knights one would think. She’s gotten the system to shine a light on a major procedural problem and for that I respect her.

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2012-01-12 17:36:07

You respect her because she self-servingly reports on the faults of a system that she’s parasitically benefitted from?

I hope she has deficiency judgements and 1099’s around her neck for the rest of her life.

 
 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2012-01-12 07:54:59

“Lenders conveniently don’t mention that such dysfunction was self-induced, instead blaming borrowers and courts.”

Never underestimate the power of incentives.” - Charilie Munger

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-01-12 08:09:55

“When people notice how slowly foreclosures are progressing from initial steps to resale, lenders point at their foreclosure fraud related dysfunction. Lenders conveniently don’t mention that such dysfunction was self-induced, instead blaming borrowers and courts. ”

Zackly what I’ve been saying. Robo-signing is a convenient, self-inflicted excuse. And railing against the ‘deadbeats’ is just more bankster propaganda, designed to distract.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2012-01-12 10:25:22

“it keeps the trillion dollar lo$$e$ hidden.” ;-)

“You lo$t a Trillion Dollar$!”
“Did not!”
“Did $o!”
“Did not!”
“liar, liar, pant$-on-fire!”
“Did not!” … “Be$ides it’s all lil’ Opie’s (the non-Hawaiian) fault!”

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 08:36:14

Even after posting this on FB people will still vote for the I hate black people pres. Its deep not a word from our leeduh nothing

http://www.ocala.com/article/20120106/ARTICLES/120109796/1412?Title=Seven-youths-charged-with-beating-girl-on-school-bus

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 08:47:11

Teen fights have happened since the dawn of man. What exactly do you expect the president of the United States to do about this?

Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 09:45:40

admit that black on white crime is a hate crime..

That this behavior is even worse then Al Sharpton never apologizing to the duke Lacross players and the stripper ho was arrested a year later for being a real nappy headed ho..

Or standing up for the white teacher in NJ who called her students future criminals….well those future criminals will grow up and might become these FL racist thugs at 12 13 and 14..

If the parents are on section 8 to get them evicted and held responsible for raising these animals.

Anything to prove our Leeduh…knows right from wrong

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 10:27:42

Ummm, deejay, I was with you in the first graf, but you lost me in the following four grafs. Would you please do us all a favor and try to make your points without resorting to racial slurs?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 12:31:20

I’ve been on a personal campaign (mostly unsuccessful) to educate the local blue and white collar neighbors and acquaintances that they have a lot more in common with the African-American community, than they do with the folks in the upper 10% of the income distribution pie.

A lot of white people think their “culture” is superior. I guess we are going to get to see how superior it is, when it is subjected to the same level of poverty/lack of resources that black culture has been subject to.

 
 
Comment by Montana
2012-01-12 10:28:37

careful dj…you’re in thoughtcrime territory.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 11:38:16

He seems to be playing into the hands of the higher ups by losing focus on the real enemy. You can add MSNBC/Fox Business pundits to the politician’s in these lyrics, but the point is the same.

“A South politician preaches to the poor white man
“You got more than blacks, don’t complain
You’re better than them, you been born with white skin” they explain
And the Negro’s name
Is used it is plain
For the politician’s gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train

But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.”

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 11:49:24

“careful dj…you’re in thoughtcrime territory.”

It`s not like he can be indefinitely detained for that, oh wait a minute. Yes he can! Yes he can!

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 11:54:47

Please.

Where did the “hate crime” come from?

It became Federal law when local law enforcement gave white people a pass for crimes against blacks.

They local cops/prosecuters have charged all seven of the kids involved. The school says they won’t be allowed back in school until their legal issues are resolved.

Sounds like they are handling it okay to me.

Fights between middle and high school kids (even our little white/Caucasian princesses out here in Red State/Flyover-land) aren’t exactly uncommon.

Blame the WWE, or action movies, or whatever, girls around here are about 500% more likely to throw a punch as they were 30 years ago. And they are dirtier fighters than guys are. Starting with the hair-grabbing. And the kicking.

Not to mention the slapping/punching of boyfriends. That the boyfriends put up with in silence, because they are in a no-win situation.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 12:00:59

All i can add is if these thugs can beat a girl unconscious at 13 what will they be like at 15 or 18 or living next door to YOU.

Its not about race its about the final death of Political Correctness and the ability of all of us to discuss these issues without fear or retribution.

If we all thought about this for a minute what a glorious day for America it would be if blacks/Illegals would commit crimes at the same rate as whites…heck we could close jails courts and lay off 100,000 police officers because they would have no work to do.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 12:10:14

Paging MrBubble: I think we’ve discussed this before, but I’m looking at getting started with composting with worms. ISTR that this is called vermiculture, and that you’re doing it at your place.

Any how-to resources you care to share?

 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-12 12:16:44

He is actually in Bob Dylan land, so you can no, for sure, there is no possibility of any “hate crime”.
It’s about Medgar Evers.

Final verses:
Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
They lowered him down as a king
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun

He’ll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name, his epitaph plain
Only a pawn in their game

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-12 12:24:35

Hate crime ..it was 7 black thugs vs 1 white 13 year old….

Yes GS they are handling it, so why aren’t they in juvenile detention $1 million bail …return back to school…huh..never ever

The was not just tripping her and breaking a leg…

And everyone is complaining about parental responsibility well felon child, no gov Bennies…to your now homeless thug parents

Sorry GS we have to stop making excuses You can get the weight of the gov all over you for illegal fishing or hurting some endangered species, but full out attempted murder by underage black thugs …easy guys light touch on this one.

 
Comment by goon squad
2012-01-12 12:55:26

Corporate media won’t touch these stories, it goes against the diversity/multiculturalist agenda of their advertisers. In any television commerical with 4 or more people at least one must be black. When crimes like this are reported, the assailants are described as “youths” or “students” but never identifying race.

See also the assaults at the Wisconsin State Fair last summer, the flash-mob assaults in Center City Philadelphia, and here in Denver the dozens of late night assaults in Lower Downtown and Capitol Hill. Notice any pattern among these? If you do, then you’re a racist.

The socioeconomic factors and family dynamics involved, and the foundation of centuries of institutionalized racism upon which they stand, are beyond the scope of this blog. But the corporate media is engaged in a mass cover-up of the details of these assaults.

In the 2012 predictions thread I said expect a long hot summer in urban America. There will be more of these social-media flash-mob assaults. Many, many more…

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 13:19:08

See also the assaults at the Wisconsin State Fair last summer, the flash-mob assaults in Center City Philadelphia, and here in Denver the dozens of late night assaults in Lower Downtown and Capitol Hill.

Why is Brazil different?

Years ago, sometimes about 100 the young black men of the slums would “attack” Ipanema beach and mass rob the “whiter”, richer beach goers and then run back up into the favelas.

Is this the same type thing? Does the USA thing involve mass robbery?

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 13:42:33

We know what causes the majority of violent crime…. poverty.

Do blacks commit a demographically disproportionate amount of crime? If we look at % of population, yes. If we look at % of poor, NO.

If we want to reduce crime, even among minorities, the answer is to reverse the trade imbalances, reverse the widening wealth disparity, end free trade, bring back manufacturing jobs, increase wages… Then, only after we have more jobs with better wages, begin repealing many of the anti-poverty programs that have made it bearable to be poor and disenfranchised.

The solution to black crime is to improve the economic situation of the black community. Same goes for white, brown, red, yellow, green, orange…..purple.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 13:44:07

AZ –

I have info/anecdotes. I actually bought the “Maison-de-Vers” [I couldn't help myself] from Wood Worm Farms (all one word with a dot com) rather than make one myself since we were in Oz and I don’t plan ahead very well.

When we started vermiculture a couple years back, we got the worms from a local worm woman and we scattered them on the bedding that we had made from damp, shredded paper and put them in a big box in the garage. Big mistake, the temps got below freezing and, because they couldn’t huddle for warmth in their bedding/coir, they all went to find the ground. Since this ground was the concrete floor, we awoke to concentric rings of dead, dried worms. I played Taps on the throat tromnet and I am chagrined to admit that this event may have occurred twice.

We started keeping them inside in a plastic file box with holes drilled through it and pureeing their food and keeping as much allium (onion, shallot, garlic, etc.) and citrus out of the box as possible. Babies! Keep them in the bedding in which they are shipped and put shredded, moist paper on the bottom. The whole thing should be damp but not wet. Keep this box inside the bottom of a bigger plastic container. Dump any nasty liquid that accumulates in the outer bucket on soil near plants and put a newspaper under the box. This paper will eventually disintegrate but if there is liquid, things will get a touch whiffie.

When we moved, the red worms came with us as well as a regular compost box into which I had placed 100 or so nightcrawlers that I had rescued from a downpour in the parking lot. This nightcrawler composter is less than the requisite cubic meter needed to “hot compost”, so it doesn’t get too hot for them. We’ll be hot composting at the end of this season in the yard. The nightcrawlers were in the shed and I never had a problem with them but the one night that we left the red worms outside, I found them the next morning in full escape mode.

We moved again and the nightcrawlers (in two composters now) are still going strong as are the red worms, both outside even though it has gotten down to 28F. I kept scraping finished compost out of one box (forcing the nightcrawlers to dive deeper so as not to lose them) but I went too far, lost the insulative benefit of the mass of the compost and many of the worms took off (probably out of the bottom).

We are about to move the red worms into their new abode this weekend, so we’ll keep them indoors until they just acclimated to the new digs and then it’s out you go.

Does that help? Do you know anything about rooftop rainwater harvesting? I am trying to buy a 2000 gallon tank and plumb it into the gutters, but I don’t know anything about flow regulators, backflow preventers, filters and a whole lot else.

MrBubble

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2012-01-12 13:51:30

“Why is Brazil different?”

Does Brazil have the right to bear arms?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 14:14:44

Do you know anything about rooftop rainwater harvesting? I am trying to buy a 2000 gallon tank and plumb it into the gutters, but I don’t know anything about flow regulators, backflow preventers, filters and a whole lot else.

I have a superficial knowledge of this stuff.

However, one of my neighbors is a cistern expert. He could probably help you. So, MrBubble, meet Neighbor Dan.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 14:58:02

If we want to reduce crime, even among minorities, the answer is to reverse the trade imbalances, reverse the widening wealth disparity, end free trade, bring back manufacturing jobs, increase wages… Then, only after we have more jobs with better wages, begin repealing many of the anti-poverty programs that have made it bearable to be poor and disenfranchised.

Yes.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 14:59:26

Does Brazil have the right to bear arms?

In theory yes. In practice, not really. In Brazil most gun owners are the criminals. :(

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 15:00:05

All we have is the newspaper report right now.

And we all know that the cops NEVER file charges on anyone that isn’t guilty. Or inflate the severity of the crime, so they have some “plea bargain” room.

Or that our little Causasian angels would NEVER let their alligator mouths get their hummingbird asses in trouble.

 
Comment by WT Economist
2012-01-12 17:48:26

I think the crime rate is too low for them to get away with dividing people with Willie Horton, but we’ll see.

 
Comment by Neuromance
2012-01-12 19:08:05

If you are really interested in learning about crime, I heartily recommend James Q. Wilson’s book, “Thinking About Crime”. It was an eye opener.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-01-13 00:22:46

Teach them to read, write and speak English…there is a direct correlation between ghetto Ebonics and a rap sheet…

If we want to reduce crime, even among minorities, the answer is to

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 09:26:35

Comment by In Colorado
2012-01-12 08:53:42
“Agreed. We have a global economic system that doesn’t work, which has generated trillions in debts that cannot be repaid.”

That is technically not correct. Debt does not exist without offsetting money and money does not exist without offsetting debt. There is sufficient money to repay all the debt.

The problem is, the people with the money do not want to spend it so that the people with the debt can get the money they need to repay those debts.

We’ve spent 30 years embracing trade imbalances (domestic and international). All trade imbalances create money which is offset by equal amounts of debt. The result of 30 years of embracing trade imbalances is one set of entities accumulating lots of money, and another set of entities accumulating a lot of debt.

All of the debt can be repaid, IF and ONLY IF we reverse the trade imbalances.

I see no evidence that people are waking up and realizing what money is, accepting that trade imbalances generate debt that will not allow the trade imbalances to be persisted long-term, or that the only alternatives are 1) reverse the trade imbalances so that the debt can be repaid or 2) allow the debt to collapse the money to poof out of existence and the resulting depression to reverse the trade imbalances.

We’re still looking for an option 3 where we can all continue to spend 110% of our incomes forever, without having to pay on or for any of that debt, so that we can continue to run ever widening trade imbalances, forever.

The “inflate our way out” is a pipe dream that would require rising wages, which will only occur if we get to the point that foreigners stop selling us stuff in exchange for our unplayable debts… which really just makes this one of the means of achieving option 1 above, reversing the trade imbalances.

In summary, the money exists to repay all the debts. However, the people with the money are not the same people that have the debts, and the people with the money seem disinclined to spend it or in other ways have the money make its way into the hands of the people with the debts.

Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-01-12 10:47:07

the money exists to repay all the debts. However, the people with the money are not the same people that have the debts

Bingo.

To what extent is the debt owed to the people already with the money?

Related to that, which will hurt the people with the money more, default, devaluation, forced redistribution of wealth through taxes and economic policy, or a revolutionary type event?

And what scenario would hurt those with money the least?

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-01-12 11:15:57

There will be default or there will be slavery.

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-01-12 12:23:59

It’s really a matter of who’s ox gets gored. Overly indebted, slave to the banksters. Overly extended, slave to the banksters.
So really, it’s slavery any way you want to look at it.
We are all slaves to the money-printers. They get everything for the price of paper and ink. We get to labor for the paper, in every increases portions as food and fuel prices go ever higher.
Want to eat? Then get to work and pay back some “loans”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 11:43:53

“To what extent is the debt owed to the people already with the money?”

By definition, ALL of people with net debt owe that debt to the people with net money. Whether that money is cash, a checkable deposit in a bank, a bond, or some other form of “money” the value of that money is the willingness of someone with stuff to trade the stuff for the money, and the foundation of that willingness to trade for money comes from the people with debt needing to trade labor and stuff to get the money to repay their debt.

“which will hurt the people with the money more,”

Depends on if you are talking about people with large savings, large income or large both.

“default,” Bad for the people with money savings. Not too bad for people with high incomes but little savings. Good for people with non-money wealth such as real estate, commodities or other hard goods.

“devaluation” Bad for both people with savings and people with large incomes, assuming incomes do not keep pace with inflation. Again, great for people with hard assets rather than money savings.

“forced redistribution of wealth through taxes and economic policy” Bad for people with high incomes, but not so bad for people with money savings since the tax hits incomes not your current savings. If the redistribution is done via property tax, tariff or resource usage tax, then could be bad for the people with non-cash assets.

“or a revolutionary type event?” Bad for everyone. Probably least bad for the people with guns and supplies stashed away in a mountain bunker, but still not great. Hard to imagine it wouldn’t devolve into Napoleon type even where a strong arm dictator gains control of the big guns of the military. I don’t care how many rifles or rounds of ammo you have, when the strongman with the tanks, bombs and missiles shows up, he’s taking what he wants.

The US Revolution is fairly unique in that it was inspired by intellectual, enlightenment, freedom type issues and was lead by the rich. Most revolutions, especially those that come from economic issues and started by the poor, rarely (never) turn out as well.

I refuse to prepare for the “revolution type event”. I think it would be as useless as building a bomb shelter in your back yard to prepare for a nuke war. As if you would want to emerge from the shelter a week later to a radioactive, nuclear winter of death, destruction and starvation. As if you can hold out for decades, in isolation, and the parade of military strongmen come and go.

Comment by DebtinNation
2012-01-12 17:48:49

Interesting thoughts. I have my money, figuratively speaking, on default. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but several years from now possibly. Until then, I think the economy will continue to plod on like a giant wounded by a thousand tiny arrows.

As to a Road Warrior-type scenario, I don’t see it happening, IMHO; although it certainly doesn’t hurt to prepare for disruptions that could last days to weeks to possibly months. We’re always only one hurricane, earthquake, or riot away from third world conditions, even if temporary.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by sold in 04
2012-01-12 11:15:58

The decline of civilizations of the past — fourth-century-b.c. Athens, fifth-century-a.d. Rome, 15th-century Byzantium, 1930s Western Europe — was not caused by their spending too much money on defense or not spending enough on public entitlements. Rather, their expanding governments redistributed more borrowed money, while a dependent citizenry wanted even fewer soldiers so as to guarantee ever more handouts.

History’s bleak lesson is that those societies with self-reliant citizens who protect themselves and their interests prosper; those whose citizens grow dependent cut back their defenses — and waste away.

Comment by MrBubble
2012-01-12 11:55:39

I respectfully disagree with your thesis on the basis of lack of data presented.

Someone could just as easily say that Athens fell because “Athens waged the war for too long and had very limited natural resources from shipbuilding to feeding population. The grain was usually imported, while the primary agricultural commodity was olive oil. The occupation of Attica systematically destroyed much of the olive orchards. At the end of the war, Athenians were abandoned by everyone, and the Persian paid a good sum of gold currency to Sparta to defeat Athens. Athens was besieged and capitulated after prolonged siege that was probably after the Troy as one the most bloody. During the war, Athens was ravished by plague; some argue that this plague of Pericles was first known bubonic plague in Europe.”

You could say that it was a suctioning of wealth into the Roman Senate that caused social unrest and its fall.

You could say and that “socialist” plans like the New Deal helped the US to rebound and this was the thing that prevented full scale revolution against the government.

I don’t know anything about Byzantium besides what Yeats wrote and probably none of these theses is correct, but one could say these things as easily as you say yours.

 
Comment by WT Economist
2012-01-12 12:31:15

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fb95b4fe-3863-11e1-9d07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1iy88KJgX

From the Financial Times: In a book on the subject Mancur Olson, a theorist on institutional economics, “argued that nations decline because of the lobbying power of distributional coalitions, or special-interest groups, whose growing influence fosters economic inefficiency and inequality. When he was writing, the main interest groups were trade unions and business cartels. Today, the pre-eminent interest group consists of finance professionals on Wall Street and in London. Through campaign finance and political donations, they have bought themselves protection from proper societal accountability.”

So who are those powerful distributional coalitions? The poor people? The black people? The immigrants? The sick people? The handicapped? If these are the people draining the U.S., it would be the first time in human history that the powerless brought down a civilization by living off the powerful.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-01-12 16:48:28


So who are those powerful distributional coalitions? The poor people? The black people? The immigrants? The sick people? The handicapped?

The benefits flowing to these groups are a drop in the swimming pool compared to the benefits that have flowed to the finance sector.

Comment by measton
2012-01-12 20:45:18

The benefits flowing to these people are designed to prevent riots and designed to scare the portion of the middle class, upper middle class, and lower level elites that have yet to be fleeced. The amount is slowing being reduced as there are fewer people to fleece. At some point we will reach a braking point.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 13:00:53

Trade imbalances.

The civilizations (with the exception of 1930s Western Europe) were willing to use offensive military might to invade and take whatever tehy wanted from their neighbors.

Then they became trading partners with those nations, rather than invading and taking, they became sources of cheap labor….

When you stop supporting yourself and instead live on imports purchased on debt. When you stop paying a sufficient wage. When you allow all the wealth to flow into too few hands, and make everyone else dependent on ever increasing debt to fund their purchases.

It isn’t guns or butter that determines the fate of this nation.

It is excess debt from trade imbalances that will destroy us. Pay your citizens a sufficient wage and make it yourself you are okay. Use unsustainable debt growth to fuel demand in the face of falling wages and widening wealth disparity, and supplied by cheap foreign labor through trade imbalances… done.

 
Comment by Bill in Phoenix and Tampa
2012-01-12 17:53:41

Don’t forget that the imperialist British Empire did not collapse into nothing. It is certainly not a fraction as powerful as it was during Disraeli years, however the royalty still exists, businesses in GB thrive still, inventors there are inventing, and tourists still pour in a lot of money to GB.

Same thing will happen to the USA when we give up being world cop. And we will eventually, Ron Paul or not. We cannot afford it. Ron Paul is laying the groundwork by publicizing his philosophy all over America and winning people to his viewpoints on non-intervention.

Comment by Robin
2012-01-12 20:29:04

May God bless Ron Paul, and God bless non-intervention.

Fewer blessings of America and the American people at the close of stumping speeches by the GOP, IMHO.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-01-12 12:50:38

Here’s the best evidence I’ve found of what’s happened to the U.S. over the last nine years in terms of numbers of people employed and their median wages. It’s from the government’s Bureau of Labor Statistics. The data is nicely laid out in Table 1 on Page 5 of the PDF.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf

Highlights: The number of full time workers was the same in 3Q02 as it was in 3Q11, at about 100 Million. It peaked in 4Q07 at about 108 Million. The precipitous drop was in 4Q08. Hmmm, what event occurred in that time period? It would also be interesting to see how the 18-to-65 population increased over the nine years.

The median constant-dollar (Inflation adjusted) wage is the same in 3Q11 as it was in 3Q02. Over that entire time it’s been within +3% and -2% of the initial value. In current dollars the number went up, from $608 to $756 (for full time workers) over that period.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 13:08:25

“The precipitous drop was in 4Q08. Hmmm, what event occurred in that time period?”

Sept 15, 2008, Lehman bankruptcy, cascade defaults, full scale implosion of the debt and equity markets, TARP, mass bankruptcies, Phozi’s being discovered, hedge fund managers faking their deaths and running off with client money….

Bailouts of AIG, GM, etc.

Ugly days.

 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 13:33:46

There are 2 things the table does not show, that I can think off off the top of my head.
1) Civilian non-institutionalized population, 2000: 210 million. 2010: 234 million.

2) Total household debt 2002: 8.5T 2008: 13.8T Total business debt 2002: $7.2T 2008: $11.4T.

When private sector debt stopped increasing in 2008, the federal government had to step in as the borrower of last resort. Publicly held US federal gov debt in 2007: $5.1T. 2011: $10.1T

We have a debt based economy funding massive internal and international trade imbalances. And that is the full picture.

 
 
Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 15:16:40

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45976815

“The Santa Clara-based bank and groups like the National Venture Capital Association want regulators to explicitly exempt venture capital investing from the ban. They contend not doing so could deprive the industry of needed investments from banks at a time when funding is already hard to come by because of the sluggish economy.

The 2010 Dodd-Frank financial oversight law included the Volcker rule, which generally aims to restrict banks’ risk-taking. Regulators are collecting comments on a proposed rule released in October.”

No problem. Give up your FDIC guarantee on deposits, and you can do anything you want with your money. If you want the FDIC insurance, then you have to limit your investing to SAFE investments.

Why is this stuff so hard to understand?

Oh, right… their goal is to privatize the gains ans socialize the losses. My bad. What was I thinking?

 
Comment by cactus
2012-01-12 15:49:02

a government intervention ?

CNBC

Wall Street has bet big over the past few months on a housing recovery that, according to most views, is still likely a good distance in the future.

Home builder stocks in particular have gotten a huge boost over the past three months or so, rising more than 50 percent since the end of the third quarter.

Analysts attribute the move to two primary factors: The belief that the government is planning some type of intervention to help deal with the glut of foreclosures still on the market, and a cyclical move in the stocks that often comes in anticipation of building season.

Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-01-12 15:56:48

So, 1) government is planning to repeal the laws of supply and demand on the housing market and 2) spring selling season is only 4 months away and 3 months ago, people didn’t know that spring would eventually return….

Sounds like a good bet to me.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-12 17:01:11

Yep, that bet sounds like a real winner. I’d like to put some three-dollar bills on it, please.

 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 16:36:45

(Once again, or highly trained corporate leadership identifies a symptom as the disease…… and multiply this times just about every other business segment.)

“AAR, Chicago team to build Aviation Workforce”

http://tinyurl.com/7o76flk

As predicted, the whining about “we can’t find qualified workers….” continues. And of course, the solution is more corporate welfare, spending tax money on training people, so they don’t have to.

And as far as the “shortage” is concerned?

Checked several job boards. Yeah, there are lots of open positions. Requirements typically are:

-3 to 5 years experience on their specific airplane

-Manufacturer approved training in the specific type they are working on.

-Willing to work overtime (Translation…..48-56 hour weeks, 40+ weeks out of the year)

-Willing to work nights and weekend (Translation…….both)

-Work in an airport/hangar environment (Translation……110 degree hangars in the summer, freezing your azz off working in the ramp in Duluth in the winter, or usually, a combination of both)

-Ability to lift 75 pounds (and hold it over your head with one hand, while turning a wrench with the other).

-Be willing to relocate with no company assistance.

-No defined pension plans, usually a crappy 401K. Sometimes you get “free flying privleges”……flying “standby”, if there were unsold seats…….yeah, that used to be a perk, back in the days before flights were routinely overbooked. Now, you can expect to wait two days for a open seat. Forget about flying the whole family, at least on the same airplane

-Pass drug testing (pre-employment and random) screenings.
(Refuse or come up positive? POOF! Instant termination, and FAA certificate revocation for a minimum of one year).

And for this they are offering a salary of $15 hour to start. If you are luck, and become “Mr Ace Mechanic”, you might make the princely sum of $40/hour at the end of 30 years.

Aviation’s problem is that there aren’t an overabundance of people with the skillset, and intelligence to be A & Ps. Even fewer with leadership and customer service skills. And fewer still that you would actually trust sticking them out on an island all by themselves, with no QC or management backup. Add to this the fact that this very same skill set is highly prized by industries that CAN and WILL pay more than $15-20hr.

There is no “free market” for labor. If there was a “free market”, salaries would rise until the job became attractive enough to attract qualified people.

Instead, we have many industries/businesses in this country where the business plan fall apart if they have to pay “market rates” for skilled labor.
So the plan becomes to reduce standards (either by actually reducing them on paper, or by moving the work to shops where there is no FAA oversight), and transfer training costs to the government.

The median age of the typical aerospace worker is around 50. A big percentage of the (few) mechanics that have been trained since 1990 have gone on to bigger and better things, mostly after being thrown under the bus in 2001 and 2008 by the very same guys complaining about a “skilled labor shortage” today.

Much like the banksters house of cards, add this one to the list of systems and infrastructure that’s being held together with bandaids and gum. Just like the other problems, it’s nothing that money can’t fix. But as everyone knows, there’s no money or time to do things right, but there plenty of time, and double the money to do things over.

Don’t say you weren’t warned.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-01-12 17:01:46


Add to this the fact that this very same skill set is highly prized by industries that CAN and WILL pay more than $15-20hr.

X-GS, which industries would that be, btw?

Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 19:25:28

Railroads, CAT scanners, auto and truck repair, heavy equipment repair. I’ve heard that amusement parks like A & Ps for maintaining the rides. Avionics specialists don’t require much retraining to get into any number of more lucrative electronics fields. (At least the ones where they fix gear, and don’t throw it away when it fritzes out).

I know several guys who have gone into truck driving. Pay is the same or better, hours are better, stress levels are a lot lower.

Pretty much any kind of electro-pneumatic-hydraulic-mechanical device.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2012-01-12 17:43:31

I heard the warning. And I see it coming. Here is the history.

There are three costs of air travel: labor, energy, and equipment.

Pre-1980, aviation is a government overseen monopoly in which everyone was overpaid. Airlines were also profitable. Prices were incredibly high by today’s standards.

With deregulation, you had low priced carries with labor prices more like the rest of us. Then oil prices fell in the 1980s and 1990s. And the “glamor” or the air industry meant investors were willing to lose their shirts, over and over again, making the airplanes free.

“You are free to move about the country!”

And today? No one is willing to lose money on airlines, so they’d better make a profit AFTER covering the cost of the airplanes. Oil isn’t so cheap in dollars, and probably never will be again.

And the labor is, if anything, UNDER-paid. Increasingly so. Less qualified. Less well rested. Something’s got to give. Air travel is going to become vastly more expensive Or vastly worse and dangerous. Or first vastly worse and dangerous, and THEN vastly more expensive.

PS — I try not to fly “regional” carriers, and would not let my children attend college in a place primarily served by them. I see it coming.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-01-12 19:39:03

Airlines get ZERO premium for the time they save.

It would cost me more to drive to LA or NYC than to fly it.

Pilots can still do okay. Everybody else (Mechanics, Ticket agents, baggage handlers, flight attendants, etc) is telling their kids to stay the hell away.

My SIL just started working for a contract freight hauler. Talk about an eye opener for him. One of his first classes in orientation was a day on “Gray Areas”.

(Disclaimer: There’s nothing wrong with a little “creative interpretation” in certain circumstances. Provided you have the training and experience to make a judgement call.

My view is that you don’t want newbie mechs who are starting to turn wrenches on airplanes for the first time making “judgement calls”. But I’m an old paradigm Neanderthal, so what do I know? )

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-01-12 18:26:22

Great article demonstrating that the Fed didn’t have a CLUE in 2006:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/business/transcripts-show-an-unfazed-fed-in-2006.html

WASHINGTON – The desperation of homebuilders was a running joke among top Federal Reserve officials during the waning phase of the housing bubble in 2006, according to transcripts released Thursday.
Multimedia

Document
Fed Transcripts in 2006 (federalreserve.gov)
Related

Economix Blog: Blasts From the Fed’s Past (January 12, 2012)
Times Topic: Federal Reserve (The Fed)
Readers’ Comments
Share your thoughts.
Post a Comment »
Read All Comments (7) »
They laughed about the cars that builders were giving to buyers. They laughed about efforts to make empty homes look occupied. They laughed at a report that one builder said inventory was rising “through the roof.”

The officials, meeting every six weeks as the central bank’s top policy committee to discuss the health of the nation’s economy, did not seriously consider the possibility that problems in the housing market would send the nation into recession.

“We think the fundamentals of the expansion going forward still look good,” Timothy F. Geithner, then president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, told his colleagues when they met in December 2006.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-01-12 18:49:18

BTW, the @BCAppelbaum tweets that this article was based on are a MUST read. OMG, it’s the best HBB fodder I have seen in a long time.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 19:14:35

Great article demonstrating that the Fed didn’t have a CLUE in 2006

No, the Fed knew precisely what it was doing: perpetuating the massive swindles of its Primary Dealer bankster accomplices, and passing the tab for their recklessness and fraud onto taxpayers. The people who don’t have a clue are the Obama Zombies and McCain Mutants who gave the Wall Street-Federal Reserve looting syndicate a green light to continue with business as usual.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-12 19:25:34

“…the Fed didn’t have a CLUE in 2006…”

Pretending to be dumb as a board provides great CYA benefits!

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-13 00:33:32

‘The officials, meeting every six weeks as the central bank’s top policy committee to discuss the health of the nation’s economy, did not seriously consider the possibility that problems in the housing market would send the nation into recession.

“We think the fundamentals of the expansion going forward still look good,” Timothy F. Geithner, then president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, told his colleagues when they met in December 2006.’

Oops! — I did it again

Editor’s Picks
Geithner’s Home For Sale in NY
May 5, 2011

Coldwell Banker Licensed Realtor Debbie Meliken on the sale of Timothy Geithner’s million dollar home in Westchester County, New York.

 
 
Comment by Jim Wagoner
2012-01-12 19:15:29

Great article. Really opens your eyes!

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2012-01-12 19:21:31

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/01/10/401517/three-leading-gop-nominees-porn/?mobile=nc

Establishment GOP Hollow Men Romney, Gingrich and Santorum say they’ll make porn illegal. What will SEC regulators do all day if that happens?

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 20:32:47

Good grief these clowns do everything they can to diminish their credibility. Not that they’re worth a $hit if it weren’t true… just sayin’…

 
 
Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-12 21:50:19

It isn’t about housing anymore folks. If I wanted a house I’d write a check. It’s about the entrench power structures that keep us enslaved.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-13 00:06:33

The Boston Globe
EDWARD L. GLAESER
Fed’s housing ideas won’t fix market
By Edward L. Glaeser
January 13, 2012

WE SHOULDN’T count on the housing market to carry America back into economic uplands.

Last week, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke sent a white paper to Congress outlining possible reforms to current housing policies. The paper proposes converting bank-owned properties into rental units and reducing borrowing costs for owners who are at risk of default. Some experimentation along these lines makes sense, but attempts to rejigger the market only go so far — and the barriers to success are high.

Bernanke’s frustration with housing is understandable. The seasonally adjusted Case-Shiller price data for October 2011 showed a decline from the previous month in 16 out of 20 markets, including Greater Boston. The housing market malaise weighs on the larger economy because low prices mean fewer construction jobs and because homeowners spend less when they feel less wealthy.

Yet while macroeconomic conditions might improve if the housing market perked up, it’s not obvious that the government should look for ways to artificially push up home prices.

Low housing prices means greater housing affordability, and current prices are closer to what market fundamentals would justify than the inflated prices of five years ago were. We overbuilt by nearly 3 million housing units during the boom, so we cannot avoid a painful period of limited construction that allows demand to catch up with supply.

The paper proposes converting bank-owned real estate into rental housing to reduce the stock of vacant homes.

Because the Federal Reserve knows the limits of government policy-making, it’s focusing its attention on two narrow problem areas: the large supply of vacant homes, and the ample number of owners potentially facing foreclosure.

The paper proposes converting bank-owned real estate into rental housing to reduce the stock of vacant homes. America does need to turn towards renting after an undue emphasis on owner occupancy. But our current vast supply of vacant housing was built to be owned, not rented, and conversion is quite difficult.

As landlords know, renting is a tricky business that is made easier with compact, ideally multi-family units - like Boston’s triple-deckers, unlike newly vacant homes built in exurbia. There is a close connection between housing type and ownership. More than 85 percent of single-family detached houses are owner-occupied, while more than 85 percent of units in large multi-family buildings are rented.

The Fed’s proposal may hold some promise in denser areas of Boston and adjacent cities and towns, but it quickly breaks down in more outlying areas. Renting single-family detached houses is difficult, because renters don’t have the right incentives to provide the sweat equity that homes need. Some estimates suggest that homes lose 1 percent of their value each year when rented, and those are homes selected for the rental market. Newly constructed exurban homes have far more potential downside, especially if they are hard for landlords to monitor.

Despite the dangers, I’d support a modest experimental rental program, if it can be done without subsidy. Maybe the government could run an auction, but sell only if rental companies exceed a certain price.

The Fed paper’s second primary proposal is to modify loans for owners who owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth. Other programs have tried this already, with limited success, but the Fed suggests further steps to help homeowners, such as eliminating the refinancing fees that the government-controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac charge in certain riskier situations. Freddie and Fannie might also refinance underwater loans made by private lenders.

While the Fed should want to help distressed borrowers, we should be wary of imposing more financial risks on Fannie and Freddie. Taxpayers are already out hundreds of billions of dollars because of past risky mortgages. I favor a simple cash payment of under $10,000 to ease the pain for foreclosed families; that form of aid provides humanitarian relief without keeping people in homes that they can’t afford.

Even if Fannie and Freddie modify many distressed loans, that won’t rekindle the housing market. Real housing prices did not rise between 1991 and 1998, when our economy roared after the last housing bust. We don’t need another new housing boom to bring America back.

Edward L. Glaeser, a professor of economics at Harvard University, is author of “The Triumph of the City.’’ His column appears regularly in the Globe.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-13 00:43:34

Geithner said Greenspan was ‘terrific’ in 2006
January 12, 2012, 12:13 PM

The Federal Reserve today released the transcripts of Federal Open Market Committee meetings for 2006 after the customary five-year lag.

The verbatim records include the January 31 meeting, which was the last FOMC meeting under former chairman Alan Greenspan. This was the apex for Greenspan’s career.

Praise for his leadership and steady hand during his eighteen-and-a-half year tenure at the helm of the central bank dominated financial press coverage as he met with the Fed’s top policy-makers for the last time. The fast-approaching financial crisis was not yet on the horizon.

According to the transcript, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who was then the president of the New York Fed, was effusive in his praise for the outgoing chairman. “I’d like the record to show that I think you’re pretty terrific too,” Geithner told Greenspan. (The context was other Fed members praising Greenspan.)

“And thinking in terms of probabilities, I think the risk that we decide in the future that you’re even better than we think is higher than the alternative.” Of course, that was one tail-risk that did not materialize.

Other highlights, or lowlights if you will, include the Fed’s inability to forecast the looming housing bust. For sure, the central bank saw slowing in housing, but didn’t come close to figuring out its impact on the economy.

Susan Bies — now a board member at Bank of America — said a housing pullback could actually help the economy.

“So I really believe that the drop in housing is actually on net going to make liquidity available for other sectors rather than being a drain going forward and that will also get the growth rate more positive than the current Greenbook forecasts,” she said in June 2006. The Greenbook is the Fed staff forecast.

And here’s a joke, told by Dave Stockton at the December 2006 meeting in relation to a particularly dry Greenbook. Stockton retired last year as research division director.

“I was reminded of the old joke about the man who is told by his doctor that he has only six months to live. The doctor recommends that the man marry an economist and move to North Dakota. The man asks whether this will really help him live any longer than six months. The doctor says, ‘No, but it sure will feel a lot longer.’”

– Greg Robb

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-01-13 00:44:45

China’s tall danger signals
January 11, 2012, 7:12 AM

Amid the ongoing bubble watch in China’s real-estate sector, new research Wednesday showed the mainland is home to more than half of the world’s skyscrapers currently under construction.

Barclays Capital said that China is now flashing some of the telltale signs of a bubble on its Skyscraper Index, which is designed to track the correlation between tall buildings and an impending financial crisis.

Slightly over half of the 124 skyscrapers due to be completed in the next six years are in China, according to Barclays, which cited its own in-house research and website Skyscrapernews.

The construction binge will increase the number of skyscrapers in Chinese cities by 87% the report said, noting that the average height of buildings under construction is also increasing.

Barclays analysts said the frenzied activity in these lesser-known cities amounted to “evidence of the expanding building bubble,” adding that its Skyscraper index has acted as barometer of widespread misallocation of capital that can see instances of excesses dating back to before the Great Depression.

“The writing, so to speak, would seem to be already on the glass curtain walling,” Barclays said, adding that a sharp economic correction for China should occur within the next five years if it follows the pattern seen during other instances of overbuilding.

– Chris Oliver

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post