Bits Bucket for January 13, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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It doesn’t look like the elders are evacuating their Garagemahals any time soon.
http://tinyurl.com/6msrb24
Darn, this price discovery is taking a long time.
A really long time. I waited out the prior bi-coastal housing bubble from the date of our marriage in 1986 (when everyone we knew were yelling buy now or be priced out forever) until 1994, when I finally bought for a fair price. Eight years, and it went down a couple of years more.
But that was with higher inflation allowing a larger real price decline with a smaller nominal price decline. And with fewer people underwater, because there were no HELOCs and cash out refis.
One option — younger generations will bypass the Garagemahals and move directly to new, smaller units elsewhere.
Or they will inherit your place when your ticker stops ticking…..that seems like to only way left unless kids live in communal or ghetto housing while saving the down payment
The reason my Brooklyn neighborhood remained stable when it was redlined in the 1960s and 1970s is because the houses were passed down through the generations within families for nothing.
Lots of houses are owned by people who grew up in the neighborhood but now live in neighborhoods that were better back then (ie. Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights). They are used as rentals.
Anybody have suggestions about finding a 1) house inspector, and 2) an appraiser with jaundiced views and cynical eyes about the market?
Eldest child is fully launched. Got Ph.D., gots steady job that she likes and from which she will never be canned, gots long term bf who is a genuinely good guy and outdoorsman. They are contentedly entrenched in their mid-sized VA university town, which they hope to never leave. They intend to stay in the basement apartment of their duplex, upon which they just put in an offer that was accepted. I, of course, am praying that a jaundiced inspector and appraiser will find issues (at retail) that are fixable (at wholesale). BF is handy and hardworking and I am close enough to act as day labor on a weekend.
Even at the accepted offer price, the numbers make sense, esp. with the long term tenant upstairs. The house is manageable without the tenant.
But I’d love to find a jaundiced inspector who has been around the block a couple times, and who is not afraid to call a spade a spade.
Thanks in advance!
Wow, stability. Best of luck to them.
Watch out for those day laborers jane. They sometimes fake an injury to make a claim.
My cousin is a home remodeler in Vermont. He’s been down the fake claim road many times.
What usually makes the claimant’s stories fall apart is the lack of consistency. Meaning that the tale of injury woe is told this way on Monday, that way on Tuesday, and yet another way on Wednesday.
The end result: Claim denied, you fibber.
People that have the attitude you are suggesting finding are heard by Insurance adjusters every day . The Gimme-gimmie crowd , we used to call them . Disgusting folks who are rotting out their own souls for $$$$$$
Why the umbrage? It’s Friday before a three day weekend. Surely you, yourself, reading this blog, cannot be defending the housing leech industry?
I don’t like the Free Sh*t Army either. But I REALLY get fried by conniving or greedy or incompetent housing leeches. Which is to say, most of them. I am right to seek counsel in finding ones who will be straight and have a sharp pencil.
The old saying is “caveat emptor”. One of my daughter’s classmates bought a modest, affordable house while still in grad school, courtesy of an inheritance. The thinking: since it was right next to the med school, it could be resold reasonably or rented for a reasonable rate to med student, who could dash the 300 yards to the side entrance on a moment’s notice without missing sleep. Same real-t-turd. Must’ve been a grad student gone bad.
Anyways, classmate’s walls began streaking, and ceilings started dripping the first winter. Prior owner had painted over the problems in a hurry and priced the piece of sh*t to sell before the next rain. Turns out the roof should’ve been replaced years ago, the attic beams had rotted, and water was dripping in through every interface.
Did yon realtor, appraiser and inspector say anything about it? NOOOoooo. They must’ve known one another. Or must’ve not wanted to embarrass one another. Or whatever. Such is group think. So, this young woman wound up with a major roof replacement. The inspector and appraiser SHOULD have been eyeing every angle of that house as if they were starving sharks and every gap was a potential source of fresh meat.
Sue, you say? How much law can you afford at $300/hour? Suing is the equivalent of the Starving Lawyers’ Full Employment Act. They’re leeches, too. Further, how much disruption to your life can you tolerate? And how are you going to collect if, as we have been told, the parasites in the housing industry are insolvent, each waiting for the glory days to return?
No, sorry, my friend. Much better to be a b*tch up front and know exactly where the beartraps lie, plan and account for them, rather than to go through that series of colossal pains in the rear after the fact.
None of the third parties in the transaction has any business knowing my daughter’s financial status and capabilities, the financial status and capabilities of her relatives, or in fact the hard earned fixit capabilities of any of the folks in her extended network.
If you are a member of the housing leech industry, sorry to have offended you. But I simply do not like leeches of any variety whatsoever.
Sincerely,
A Friend of Realtors are Liars
Roofs are very easy to inspect yourself.
Buyers should inspect a home themselves prior to even thinking about an offer.
Watching 20 hours of Holmes on Homes will give you the basics on what to look for.
I’d agree. You really shouldn’t expect that much from a home inspector - just the biggest of the big problems. My opinion: Have a plumber run a camera down the main drain along with the home inspection. If the doors are hard to close, or there are cracks, have a foundation expert check it out. One inspector by himself just isn’t enough.
If you can manage it, do your inspection on a cold wet day.
“Roofs are very easy to inspect yourself.”
Right. And then the seller sues you for damaging his roof, whether you fall through the rotted sheathing or not. Furthermore I as a seller would NEVER let a potential buyer on my roof due to potential liability. My reply would be, “Hire an inspector.”
And I would never buy your house if you insisted on being at the showing.
The City Code Enforcement Officer knows the better ones around.
Thanks for the useful and actionable information! I will advise daughter to make good friends with the City Code Enforcement Officer.
Sage advice. I hired a contractor to do a long range emergency repair at my Montana place. I was on the verge of hiring him to do a much larger job for me. I called the local bank to arrange a down payment to get the guy started. The VP of the branch got on the phone and suggested that I not use this person. Even went so far as to have a few locals call me to relay their own experiences with this person. Well I certainly dodged a bullet there. What I ended up doing was calling the area building inspector. I had his cell # from meeting him during some earlier inspections. He said he had to provide 3 companies to not show favoritism. I called all three, got quotes and hired one to do the work.
Worked out great.
WF approved my short sale offer in six weeks, which included the holidays. Noted that they already had a fair market estimate on file from a previous failed offer.
Congrats!
Awesome… When do you close, or have you already, Blue?
Closing date now depends on my lawyer; 2-4 weeks.
It will feel strange not surfing the listings. Kind of like cancelling one’s subscription to Match.
Kind of like cancelling one’s subscription to Match.
So, I take it things are still going well with your Canadian redhead?
Yes indeed! I am still a determined renter though.
Of housing or redheads?
It will feel strange not surfing the listings.
I still surf them all the time. Some days it’s torture. I think I need a 12-step program.
Congrats, Blue!
Yay!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/business/transcripts-show-an-unfazed-fed-in-2006.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM Published: January 12, 2012
WASHINGTON — As the housing bubble entered its waning hours in 2006, top Federal Reserve officials marveled at the desperate antics of home builders seeking to lure buyers.
The officials laughed about the cars that builders were offering as signing bonuses, and about efforts to make empty homes look occupied. They joked about one builder who said that inventory was “rising through the roof.”
But the officials, meeting every six weeks to discuss the health of the nation’s economy, gave little credence to the possibility that the faltering housing market would weigh on the broader economy, according to transcripts that the Fed released Thursday. Instead they continued to tell one another throughout 2006 that the greatest danger was inflation — the possibility that the economy would grow too fast.
“We think the fundamentals of the expansion going forward still look good,” Timothy F. Geithner, then president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, told his colleagues when they gathered in Washington in December 2006.
Some officials, including Susan Bies, a Fed governor, suggested that a housing downturn actually could bolster the economy by redirecting money to other kinds of investments…
It’s embarrassing for the Fed,” said Justin Wolfers, an economics professor at the University of Pennsylvania. “You see an awareness that the housing market is starting to crumble, and you see a lack of awareness of the connection between the housing market and financial markets.”
“It’s also embarrassing for economics,” he continued. “My strong guess is that if we had a transcript of any other economist, there would be at least as much fodder.”
“We think the fundamentals of the expansion going forward still look good,” Timothy F. Geithner, then president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, told his colleagues when they gathered in Washington in December 2006.
Why are these people lying to the public?
Because the public are sheep.
No they’re not. Ditech said that people are smart
They IS be smart!
That’s unpossible!
Because they can.
Because it’s their job.
“This is far and away the strongest global economy I’ve seen in my business lifetime” — Henry Paulson, 2007
I think they are just that stupid.
After reading Lewis’s Big Short and Boomerang, there were a lot of stupid people making stupid mistakes.
And, for the most part, they are still in charge and still making newer and bigger stupid mistakes.
Are you saying you don’t like our inbred aristocracy?
The inbred population of Iceland were amongst the stupidest of Europeans.
They wised up in a hurry though.
Did you see the news that George and Laura really wanted to see Jeb run in 2012! How out of touch can they be?
The inbred population of Iceland were amongst the stupidest of Europeans.
I cannot agree with this, considering that Iceland is the only country that has reacted in a sane manner to the financial crisis.
I am eagerly awaiting the compare & contrast studies that will be done a decade down the road based on the fact that they took a different path than the rest of the world. I believe that difference will help shape the response to the next financial another 70yrs down the road.
In Boomerrang, Lewis claims all the top people at the three Icelandic banks that failed were men along with the top government officials
Furthermore, Icelandic men make terrible factory workers because they are all very brash and take many unnecessary dangerous risks ( from being a society of fisherman).
After the collapse they elected a women to lead the country.
They did not react in a sane manner, it was the only way.
Debt per citizen was $300k+. No austerity plan could have worked when an average family of four owed $1.2million in debt.
My experience in Iceland tends to validate M. Lewis’s contentions. The men in that country are among the most arrogant, misogynist pricks I’ve ever encountered– and that includes the Morals Police with the twacking sticks in Saudi Arabia.
I might be an outlier here, but I’m inclined to believe that they really were that clueless. Five years ago, I thought they were “playing dumb” to avoid being blamed for pricking the bubble.
But I think it would be a real challenge to generate such a volume of amazingly-oblivious quotes on purpose. You would almost need a script and a really good set of actors.
Occam’s Razor suggests to me that they were really that clueless, which is really pretty shocking.
If you haven’t read the quotes tweeted by @BCApplebaum or read the CR summary of them, they are a MUST read.
I’ve got a rule that trumps Occam’s Razor. Those who are paid to, or profit from supposed stupid mistakes do not get a pass.
do not get a pass.
I’m not giving them a pass. I think they should all be FIRED, tarred, feathered, shamed, shunned, etc for being so effing STUPID.
These were the best minds economics had to offer??
the best they had for sale.
A few of my favorite quotes:
Yellen, Oct. ‘06: “Of course, housing is a relatively small sector of the economy, and its decline should be self-correcting.”
Mishkin, Sept. ‘06: “The excesses in the housing sector seem to be unwinding in an acceptable way… I’m actually quite positive.”
Warsh, Sept. ‘06: “Capital markets are probably more profitable and more robust at this moment… than they have perhaps ever been.”
Geithner, Sept. ‘06: “We just don’t see troubling signs yet of collateral damage, and we are not expecting much.”
Lacker, Sept. ‘06: “I’m still fairly skeptical of large indirect spillover effects on employment or consumption.”
Minehan, cont. “So it is hard actually for me to see that residential investment will be that hard hit that long.”
Minehan, Sept. 06: “Buyers should recognize housing [is] more affordable & resume purchases, perhaps w/out further major price declines.”Fed staff report, June ‘06: “We have not seen—and don’t expect—a broad deterioration in mortgage credit quality.”
Fed staff, Sept. ‘06: “We are not projecting large declines nationwide in house prices.”
Geithner, June ‘06: “We see a pretty healthy adjustment process under way… The world economy still looks pretty robust to us.”
Bernanke, March 2006: “Again, I think we are unlikely to see growth being derailed by the housing market.”
uh…Groupthink, anyone?
I think they were simply trying to talk the market out of a collapse.
These were their _private_ discussions behind closed doors at the FOMC meetings! They could not have been trying to talk the market out of anything—unless they realized that the markets would still be in disarray five years later when the remarks were made public.
These were their _private_ discussions behind closed doors at the FOMC meetings!
If we’re reading the transcripts, they weren’t that private.
“I might be an outlier here, but I’m inclined to believe that they really were that clueless.”
I agree–they knew that their Fed meeting comments wouldn’t be made public for five years, so there’s every reason to believe that they were being honest.
The FED had no idea that the US economy had become dependant on building houses and borrowing money.
Highly educated examples of top level government employees
This will not end well
Highly educated examples of top level government employees
Except that the Federal Reserve is not a branch of the Federal Government.
Except that the Federal Reserve is not a branch of the Federal Government.”
yes you are right I think ?
I don’t really know what they are ? 12 private banks that loan money to the government.
When folks from the likes of Golden Sachs are peppered throughout both, what’s the difference?
“Screw the Populace to the Extent Possible within the Legal Limit” ought to be the taglines of both.
Some officials, including Susan Bies, a Fed governor, suggested that a housing downturn actually could bolster the economy by redirecting money to other kinds of investments…
I heard Bies speak at the University of Arizona business school, oh, ’bout five years ago. She didn’t strike me as a housing bull.
Once again, the Wall Street-Federal Reserve looting syndicate brazenly defrauds “customers”, then says there’s a “national interest” in covering 100% of the bagholders’ losses (with taxpayer money) after $1.2 billion is stolen with impunity.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45973377
David Rosen, an energy broker at the New York Mercantile Exchange, said he was leaving the meeting with more questions than answers.
“The customers need to be made 100 percent whole — there’s a national interest here,” said Rosen, who organized fellow MF Global customers on the NYMEX trading floor exchange in the early days of the bankruptcy. “I think the trustee has done a good job so far; they’ve been responsive to us. But we need to make it so this can’t ever happen again.”
I think there is a national interest in having the customers take losses, rather than the government. Why is it in the national interest to have people blame Social Security or infrastructure investment for their losses, rather than financial theft?
In the case of MF Global, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for anyone foolish enough to entrust their money to a company run by Jon Corzine. As a former Goldman Sachs CEO, a former senator and governor of the most corrupt state in the union, and on Obama’s shortlist as a prospective Secretary of the Treasury, Corzine had multiple red flags that screamed out “swindler and con man” to the perceptive.
However, the real issue here is the rule of law and how it no longer applies to the .01%, who can steal and defraud with impunity while regulators and enforcers turn a blind eye and mumble that bagholders should be “made whole” out of public monies. In a non-banana republic there would be outrage, but the dumbed-down sheep who comprise our population simply go back to their grazing.
New Joisey most corrupt? I thought that distinction belonged to Illinois.
Must be those darn labor unions…
Chicago. The “other” New York City.
Detriot may have them all topped in the corruption race.
Louisiana
http://market-ticker.org/
More dissembling by another supra-national economic policy body (World Economic Forum).
ahansen
That was a a heck of a guess.
But the answer to the riddle is in yesterdays Bits.
The Bubble
(jeff 7:11)
“Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a team to enter Foxboro in January and win a playoff game.”
Denver will be smoked. Thoroughly.
No we won’t. Tim Tebow has God on his side. Believe!
“No we won’t. Tim Tebow has God on his side. Believe!”
The Bubble
(jeff 7:11)
“Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a team to enter Foxboro in January and win a playoff game.”
I just had a scary thought. When Timmy finally picks a bride and marries her, it’s gonna be like a royal wedding.
No matter what the stated goals of the celebrities are, the temptations and opportunities are so gigantic for these guys, it’s hard for them not to slip up dramatically.
Case in point: Scott Stapp, lead singer of Creed. A de facto Christian rock band with lots of biblical and Christian references in his songs, including the heavy airplay Top 40 stuff. Fast forward, there’s a scandal where he and a group of associates are caught being serviced by groupies on a bus.
Tebow attracts everything. He’s got and going to get tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. Armies of exceptionally nubile women throwing themselves at him. Unless he has monastic self control and singlemindedness, there’s going to be at least a few scandals.
As long as the women are over 18 and Tebow remains unmarried, where’s the scandal?
“Armies of exceptionally nubile women…”
maybe he doesnt like women???? whattta scandal there……
I don’t think Timmy could fart without someone tweeting to the masses.
I am amazed the Patriots continue to win, despite most of the great players from the early 2000s being gone and years of drafting at the bottom. They are doing it with smoke, mirrors, momentum, a great coach and a great quarterback. And they had the easiest schedule in football this year.
Winning breeds winning, and dynasties keep winning until suddenly they are exposed as not having been dynasties for years.
Note the Colt’s record this year.
“I am amazed the Patriots continue to win, despite most of the great players from the early 2000s being gone and years of drafting at the bottom.”
Belichick makes that team. Brady goes down and the Patriots are an 11-5 team with Matt Cassel at QB. Manning goes down and the Colts are 3-13. The patriots draft at the bottom but Belichick loves to stock pile picks and wheel-and-deal ‘em on draft day.
It’s going to be close to single digits during the game.
A decade ago, advantage Patriots — they won the battle up front. Now I’m not so sure. The Patriots are really dependent on a high flying passing attack.
Same reason the Giants have a chance in Green Bay, and New Orleans is not to be favored outside their dome.
Its really going to be that cold? Below 10? Darn. That is what I remember from my childhood. You’d walk outside and the top layer of moisture on your eyeballs would freeze along with the inside of your nose. Balaklavas were common.
I grew up very close to the stadium. Learned to drive in the parking lot. In August.
Balaklavas were common.
Pffft! No one wears those out here. Heck, I just wear my leather jacket when it’s that cold.
I do wonder how players from the Sun belt (like Timmy) adapt to living and playing in the snow belt?
It may be a mile high in Denver but Tim Tebow is many miles higher than that soaring on angels’ wings. The 2012 Superbowl belongs to Jesus!
Who cares? Niners are playing.
Who cares? Niners are playing. Comment by Bronco
That just don’t look right.
Good point! (No affiliation with Denver, tho; it’s a different broncos)
If what Stern said (posted yesterday) is correct, these numbers are waaaaay low.
Foreclosures expected to rise, pushing home prices lower
Banks are getting more aggressive with the 3.5 million U.S. homes with seriously delinquent mortgages, setting the stage for a big wave of foreclosure action this year.
By E. Scott Reckard, Los Angeles Times
January 12, 2012
California and other states are likely to see an enormous wave of long-delayed foreclosure action in the coming year as banks deal more aggressively with 3.5 million seriously delinquent mortgages.
Worried that the foreclosure flood could further undermine the housing markets, the Federal Reserve urged Congress recently to do more for troubled homeowners.
Some Fed officials have been advocating reducing the loan principal more often for underwater borrowers, those whose homes are worth less than their mortgages. The central bank also has been urging mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, kept alive by three years of taxpayer bailouts, to unload their backlogs of foreclosed properties in bulk discount sales to investors who would then rent out the properties.
That process, which Fannie and Freddie officials said is under study, could help stabilize the housing markets. However, in the short term it would increase taxpayers’ tab for propping up the government-sponsored housing finance firms, which already has reached about $150 billion.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-foreclosures-20120112,0,7066381.story - 197k -
Abolish the Fed. The first step toward a true economic recovery.
Yawn…wake me up when 99% of the shadow inventory is listed for sale on the MLS.
Yawn…wake me up when 99% of the shadow inventory is listed for sale on the MLS.
”
Never happen. it will be sold off in large blocks for pennies on the dollar and turned into subsidized housing which you won’t qualify for.
better stay sleeping you will live longer
You’re in for one hell of a nap!
The central bank also has been urging mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, kept alive by three years of taxpayer bailouts, to unload their backlogs of foreclosed properties in bulk discount sales to investors who would then rent out the properties.
In places like Tucson, where the rental market is already glutted with empty houses, this won’t work. If nothing else, it will push rents down even further. Which isn’t what you want to have happen if you own the property.
BTW, I’ve lived here for 25 years and I don’t ever recall a time when it was hard to find a place to rent. There’s always been lots of competition in the rental market. Which makes it hard to make a good living as an SFR landlord.
The only fair way is to get the longest free riders out in 90 days and work backwards…
There she is, Miss Hudson River
There she is, your ideal
The dreams of a million girls
Who are more than pretty
May come true in Atlantic City
Oh she may turn out to be
The queen of femininity
There she is, Miss Hudson River
There she is, your ideal
With so many beauties
She’ll take the town by storm
With her all-American face and form
And there she is
Walking on air she is
Fairest of the fair she is
Miss Hudson River
Jeremy Brown, New York Editor
POSTED: 7:58 am EST January 13, 2012
+ The Miss New York USA crown is up for grabs, and 13 girls, ranging from Miss Harlem to Miss Hudson River, are vying for the prize. Conspicuously absent: Miss Hunts Point, Miss Gowanus Canal and Miss The Hole.
Read more: http://www.wpbf.com/news/30204474/detail.html#ixzz1jLe9kN00
“One contestant, 24-year-old Katie Nordhoff, chose Miss Hudson River because she lives in Hell’s Kitchen and loves to run along the river with her dog.”
She`s got my vote.
Lady GaGa for President, 2012.
Can’t be having that now, can we, what with her vocal support of gay rights and all. It’s a slippery slope, as Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum has stated, that will lead to polygamy and man-on-dog action.
“Lady GaGa for President, 2012.”
“Can’t be having that now, can we, what with her vocal support of gay rights and all.”
That`s not why!
Lady Gaga sends congratulatory Tim Tebow tweet
Shannon J. Owens
Orlando Sentinel
7:14 a.m. EST, January 9, 2012
The Washington Post was the first to catch a congratulatory Tm Tebow tweet was sent out from @ladygaga on twitter early Monday morning following the Denver Broncos 29-23 overtime win against the Pittsburgh Steelers Sunday. Lady Gaga has over 17 million followers on twitter and finished 2010 as the most followed celebrity on twitter.
“Giants fan but wow. #Tebow Thats what the (expletive) a champion looks like.”
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/blogs/sentinel-sports-now/os-lady-gaga-tim-tebow-broncos,0,2213634.story - 191k -
“Can’t be having that now, can we, what with her vocal support of gay rights and all. It’s a slippery slope, as Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum has stated, that will lead to polygamy and man-on-dog action.”
Don’t sweat it. That was just another one of Ricks Freudian slips.
That was an actual quote from him. I am ashamed to live in a country where he is taken seriously by such a large number of the electorate.
Especially when this is readily available:
http://www.republicanoffenders.com
Have you guys actually convinced yourselves that Santorum and his ilk are actually straight laced vanilla people? C’mon. These people are repressed fiends who can barely handle their own urges. That’s why they’re obsessed with what WE are doing. Given the opportunity to cut loose, they’d make a group grope look a church bake sale.
What are you blaming on Santorum turkey? He’s not on the list you link to…
Ever heard the saying “When you lie with dogs?”
How about “No honor among thieves?”
Of course it’s all “guilt by association” but then again, why DOES anyone hang out with known bad actors?
I guess that means you turkey, since you are hanging out with some registered Republicans. LOL.
Lady GaGa for President
GaGa/Santorum 2012 Just imagine that.
This is what will happen to a lot of people when they see that.
Classic.
Could they do any more damage than Bush/Cheney?
I approve of GaGa not Sant.
My vote’s going to Stephen Colbert.
Ditto, write in.
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/01/13/obama-called-smaller-bush-debt-rise-unpatriotic/
Obama: Hypocricy personified.
Pssst i need another $1.2 trillion to continue operating.
WHAT!
shushhhhhhhh.
“President Obama Thursday quietly notified Congress that the government needs another $1.2 trillion to continue operating.”
Filed under: Hope and Change
CBS News - Tax dollars backing some “risky” energy projects
“CBS News counted 12 clean energy companies that are having trouble after collectively being approved for more than $6.5 billion in federal assistance. Five have filed for bankruptcy: the junk bond-rated Beacon, Evergreen Solar, SpectraWatt, AES’ subsidiary Eastern Energy and Solyndra.
Others are struggling with potential problems. Nevada Geothermal, a home state project personally endorsed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, warns of multiple potential defaults in new SEC filings reviewed by CBS News. It was already having trouble paying the bills when it received $98.5 million in Energy Department loan guarantees.”
Your tax dollars at work, suckers. And keep signing my paychecks, though as a lowly contractor with no signature authority on federal money, I’m just a pawn in their game. Many, many stories I could tell were it not for a confidentiality agreement. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Your tax dollars at work, suckers.
But I’m sure some Brazilians said this too a few years into Brazil’s 25 year project to become energy independent. (which they are now)
Didn’t you get the memo dude? Renewable energy is for sissies. Real American Patriots burn coal. Drill baby drill!
“Don’t be economic girly man” — Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2004
“Renewable energy is for sissies.”
Organizations holding ideals aloft, yet run by subsidy grifters, are crime syndicates.
Actually, real American patriots burn natural gas. Price is down 30% over the last 12 months.
The govt is considering funding a company that makes large gas turbines whose exhaust could be used to turn electricity-generating windmills when the natural wind dies down. A scientist/economist named R. Goldberg claims it will work, and will improve the ROI on the windmills as well. A win-win.
whose exhaust could be used to turn electricity-generating windmills
Ummm… doesn’t that simply imply that they have a poorly-designed gas-turbine to begin with?
If the exhaust-gas has sufficiently high velocity/pressure to turn a windmill, then a better-designed gas-turbine would extract that energy.
R. Goldberg
Ah, just got the reference. Duh.
Whiiiiiiiizzzzz… Snap! (hook line & sinker)
lol. There’s a subsidy in it though.
government money bankrupts companies
Engineering company gets some government cheese then has to contend with 1000 high level government managers all wanting information on this and that.
no real work gets done and company goes under
I have worked for private venture capital funded companies that have gone public. Is that not a better way to start companies?
My wife is taking Algebra at the local junior college and she tells me that about 1/3 of the class is SPECIAL and gets to take their tests seperate from the rest o fthe class.
They get tutors to help them with the tests
Maybe they go on to graduate and get government jobs and then get to oversee engineering companies to make Americans jobs ?
see how this works
The few people I know who work for the Fed Gov are rather sharp. I’ve never heard of the gov’t hiring Forrest Gump types into non menial jobs.
“They get tutors to help them with the tests”
Will they also get “tutors” to help them do their jobs?
Will they also get “tutors” to help them do their jobs?”
yea that’s the problem. the program is called ACCESS I think.
I don’t remember it when I was going to school but then I went part time at night while working.
I think the vietnamese kids were paid to go to school and didn’t show up half the time. maybe that was access ?
I was young and belived hard work would see you through
I no longer believe that BTW
Obama: Hypocricy personified.
On the debt? I don’t think so. Look at the time-lines. Obama calls Bush out on the debt when Obama was running for President - before the 08 crisis and recession. Bush’s debt was caused mainly by cutting taxes on the rich and going to 2 wars that proved be over 10 times more expensive than we were told and one war was a lie.
Much of Obama’s debt is caused by the policies of Bush, i.e. the TaxCutsForTheRich, initial TARP, the Wars and the lost income and costs due to the Great Recession. (ALL of these began before Obama took office) And it is estimated that by 2019, over half of the public debt will be still do to those factors. So how is Obama a hypocrite in this? Is not Obama’s deficit (much of which was baked into the cake) much different than W. Bush’s deficit?
http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cb7.png
In four years, are you going to tell us the next clown’s failures are all Obama’s? I thiink that’s called management by default.
The next clown is probably going to be Obama, especially if Romney keeps telling the electorate that they’re envious of rich people. He can’t even play the ‘God card’ since he’s Mormon.
“He can’t even play the ‘God card’ since he’s Mormon.”
I kinda loving the irony in that.
Are Catholics, Muslims and Jews also without a God in your view?
I think he’s saying that some folks won’t support Romney because they don’t think he belongs to a “proper” religion, not that his religion doesn’t have a God.
Good thing, since the God/religion hand is way overplayed and mostly a smokescreen.
Rio,
I agree with many of your positions but your continued support of the mighty O puzzles me. No doubt he inherited a big pile of steamin’ dog doo but he has made himself look, at least in my eyes, as nothing more than a stooge for the bankers.Not to mention the anguish he must have felt over the ND@@ act he just signed. Treasonous behavior, plain and simple.
Hard for me to support that in any way.
Rio,
I agree with many of your positions but your continued support of the mighty O puzzles me.
I really only support Obama much on the inherited debt thing. It’s mostly math and I think my position on his inherited debt thing is accurate. I don’t understand why people think W. Bush’s 2 wars combined with tax cuts for the rich (which they said would increase revenue LOL) are the cost responsibility of Obama.
“I don’t understand why people think W. Bush’s 2 wars combined with tax cuts for the rich (which they said would increase revenue LOL) are the cost responsibility of Obama.”
Nor do I.
I honestly feel it’s nothing more than the two party rope-a-dope leading us nowhere quickly.
I have a song recommendation for AZ Slim:
(And I didn’t even change the words.)
Rush - Big Money
Big money goes around the world
Big money underground
Big money got a mighty voice
Big money make no sound
Big money pull a million strings
Big money hold the prize
Big money weave a mighty web
Big money draw the flies
Sometimes pushing people around
Sometimes pulling out the rug
Sometimes pushing all the buttons
Sometimes pulling out the plug
It’s the power and the glory
It’s a war in paradise
It’s a cinderella story
On a tumble of the dice
Big money goes around the world
Big money take a cruise
Big money leave a mighty wake
Big money leave a bruise
Big money make a million dreams
Big money spin big deals
Big money make a mighty head
Big money spin big wheels
Sometimes building ivory towers
Sometimes knocking castles down
Sometimes building you a stairway –
Lock you underground
It’s that old-time religion
It’s the kingdom they would rule
It’s the fool on television
Getting paid to play the fool
Big money goes around the world
Big money give and take
Big money done a power of good
Big money make mistakes
Big money got a heavy hand
Big money take control
Big money got a mean streak
Big money got no soul…
Money as debt, a two way social contract.
Money is borrowed into existance and is always offset by debt. It has value because the person with the debt has to exchange goods and services for money so that they can repay the debt.
In the last few days there has been significant talk about calling a deadbeat a deadbeat. If you do not repay your debt, you are a deadbeat.
You make a social contract when borrowing money that you will pay the money back.
But, what if the people with the money refuse to spend it. You want to work, and exchange your goods and services for money, but the people with the money will not uphold thier side of the social contract and buy.
It becomes a physical impossibility to repay your debt, not a moral failure. Is not debt as money a two-way social contract???
I borrow some money, spned it to buy stuff. At a later time, I make some stuff and attempt to sell it. But, the people with the money absolutely refuse to spend it on anything. It is their goal to only accumulate more money, not spend down the balance of the money they hold. It is therefore, totally impossible for me to get money to repay my debt.
In this situation, which party has broken the social contract of money as debt?
If the person with the money refuses to spend it in exchage for goods and services, how does the debtor have ANY CHOICE other than to default?
It sounds like one side effect of what you’re saying is that there won’t be inflation until those who are hoarding the money choose to spend it.
In this situation, which party has broken the social contract of money as debt?….If the person with the money refuses to spend it in exchage for goods and services, how does the debtor have ANY CHOICE other than to default?
Good point. And are not the same people with the money the one’s who benefited most by globalization and declining wages - wages paid to the same people they wanted and want to lend money to?
If so,(I believe it is so) is this not another violation of the social-contract? Therefore are not the people with the money even bigger deadbeats?
Therefore are not the people with the money even bigger deadbeats?
I am a net saver at the moment, saving for retirement as well as against uncertainties of income. Therefore, I have some money.
I have never considered that a violation of any social contract.
I have saved some of this money also.
The social contract is in your imagination. You promised to pay what you did not have and did not have a right to. I have it. You have promised to pay what is mine. I did not agree to give it to you. The “contract” you describe is simple abuse and to enforce it you will require the use of force.
The social contract is in your imagination.
Golly willikers.
The big picture social contract has never been in anyone’s imagination since Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Hobbes and John Locke.
I think we’re talking bigger concepts than contract law here.
Yeah, I think it’s a mistake to assume (as I did initially while reading Darrell’s post) that the “people with money” are only the richest among us. That’s partially true, but the little guys (and there are more of them) are people with money too, fighting to stay employed and set some aside so they don’t become one of the guys without the money.
Unfortunately, this contributes to keeping those already without money, without money.
Ultimately then, there aren’t enough of the richest among us to turn to in order to support all of those without the money.
Money is borrowed into existance and is always offset by debt.”
and debt is payed off by work
what good is money not backed by work ?
if some people have to work for money but others get it for free ?
what good is money not backed by work ?
Why do you think the richies want us to work until we drop dead?
Why do you think the richies want us to work until we drop dead?”
Thay risk eveything gaming the system the way they are
how do you think they will fare in a full blown revolution like France 1790?
so if the richies get the money for free at 0% from the federal reserve bank, and we workers all work for money to trade with each other, then the richies get us to work for free.
nice
I this is what donald trump was all about with his stupid book. problem is when we workers all tried it by borrowing money and flipping homes it didn’t work anymore.
Funny how that works.
The debt can not be paid off by work, if those with money will not spend it by buying things from those who work to produce goods.
I can work, work, work all day… if no one will trade me money for what I produce with my work, I can’t pay on my debt.
I can work, work, work all day… if no one will trade me money for what I produce with my work, I can’t pay on my debt.
You probably shouldn’t take on any debt at ALL, if you have no certainty in your future ability to obtain the thing that is acceptable as payment on that debt.
Then there would be no money. Return to a medieval style barter economy?
There it is. Take on no debt if your means are uncertain. Debt is a snare which enslaves. Crying and wailing won’t change that.
The rich can only overcome you with debt or monopoly. Laws can protect you from monopoly. Avoid debt and defend the constitution.
The present government is not our friend in either, judging by what they do.
No one can truely be assured they will be able to pay back their debt. Therefore, if no one goes into debt, because it is impossible to be sure you can pay it back, there will be no debt.
Debt is the source of all money.
If no one goes into debt, then there is no money.
Barter.
No one can truely be assured they will be able to pay back their debt.
Debt is the source of all money.
If no one goes into debt, then there is no money.
Enough with the complexities, Darrell. We all know that if you’re in money trouble, it’s because you’re a deadbeat. That’s all we need to know.
Simple truths, for simple minds.
Debt is not the source of all money. We’ve just mostly all gotten ahead of ourselves, commonly called getting behind. When you promise to pay tomorrow, you’ve put yourself in a compromising situation. That’s not called money problems. It’s called debt.
Is it a wonder that in the 30’s the popular character Whimpy would offer to pay you Thursday for a hamburger today?
The usual problem is to avoid reducing the spending when the income cannot support, expecting some miracle. This is our national problem.
Take on no debt if your means are uncertain. Debt is a snare which enslaves.
Not even most of the time. Debt used wisely ROCKS. Yea, it does. You doubt it?
Debt used wisely ROCKS.
It can. You can also double or nothing your way out of almost anything. Almost.
Perhaps I should clarify.
Some people hainvg some money and others having some debt is not a horrid thing.
However, that is not our current situation. 1980, each household’s share of total debt was 3x the median household income. Now it is 5.5x, and based on $1.5T a year federal deficits, with virtually no drop in private sector debt, continues to increase at an unsustainable pace.
Based on a medium income of $50K, $150K per household in debt is an acceptably safe level. If you hold more than $150K net positive debt based assets, then you hold more than your share of the acceptable money supply.
When I say people with money need to spend it, I’m not talkiing wealth. Stocks, a paid off house, land, commodities, etc. There is not debt offsetting these assets, so having even more than your share of them does not mean there is someone with excess debt that they can’t pay back.
And when I am talking about the people with the money, I’m talking about people with more than $150K (the safe level of per household debt, so if you have more than this in cash, someone else has excess debt they can’t pay back) cash and equivilants (bank deposits, bonds, money market, etc).
Now, I’m not saying that saving money, building bank accounts, refusing to spend as much as you make, etc., is evil.
I’m simply saying that it is the reason that people with excess debt can not possibly get the money they need to pay off their debt.
If the people with money refuse to spend it, then the excess debt will default, money will poof out of existance, and there will be a depression.
Whose fault will the depression be? You can blame the people that didn’t pay back the debt, but if you hold money assets, then you are the fool that loaned them the money. If you refused to spend your money, then you are the reason they were unable to get the money that they needed to repay their debt.
Paradox of thrift people. What is good for the individual will kill the whole.
Might as well give up trying to explain it.
All of the tightwads that are on this board are circling like vultures, drooling for the chance to buy up their impoverished neighbor’s assets for pennies on the dollar, if/when the is a final, global financial Chernobyl occurs.
Hoping/wishing for that to happen has “unintended consequences” written all over it.
The latest crop of zombie movies/shows are training videos for Republicans, where ….
Zombies = Democrats = Socialists = Parasites
All of the tightwads that are on this board are circling like vultures, drooling for the chance to buy up their impoverished neighbor’s assets for pennies on the dollar,
It can cloud one’s judgement as to the best economic policies, when your ‘payoff’ depends upon a collapse.
I, too, would love to ’snap up’ assets at a dime on the dollar, and am decently well-positioned to do so. But I fear the unpredictable results of such a crash, and for that reason, I neither hope for nor cheer for one.
The irony is that all of the “parasites” will be better equipped to survive a descent into a Mad Max world, than all of these Suburban Commando Republicans with an AR-15 in the closet.
I’m guessing they believe the European Central Bank will follow the lead of the US Fed and pay the investors with wealth extracted from the member European countries. The European debt crisis is all about identifying who is going to pay the bad debts.
Greece, bondholders break off debt-reduction talks
ATHENS, Greece (AP) – Crucial negotiations between the Greek government and its private creditors on a bond swap needed to avoid financial default appeared close to collapse Friday.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/story/2012-01-13/greek-debt-talks/52530542/1
Greece is gone gone gone.
I just realized - isn’t there a boatload of insurance that has to be paid in the event of an official default? Insurance payments or playing chicken with the ECB could be a couple of possibilities here.
Greece Creditors Break Off Debt Talks
Bloomberg
By Aaron Kirchfeld and Jesse Westbrook - Jan 13, 2012 2:00 PM ET
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-13/greece-bank-creditor-group-says-debt-talks-on-hold-amid-failure-to-agree.html
The article below is why I don’t have much faith in economic experts. How can any kind of rigorous, data-driven, scientific approach miss something as big and obvious as the housing bubble? Answer - it can’t.
The Economist magazine was sounding alarm bells back in 03-04 about the “House of Cards” that was the global real estate market.
I have no doubt that The Bernank is a very sharp guy. I don’t doubt that the Fed governors are sharp, informed people. But if that is true, then what they are doing is an art, not a science. And thus they are artists, not scientists. And their words and policy prescriptions must be treated accordingly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/business/economy/06leonhardt.html
That, or they are simply the employees of the debt machine, and were hired because of their willingness to lie to the masses.
Personally, I think they clearly saw the bust coming in 2006. This is why they ditched ‘bubbles are good’ Greeneggsandspam, and replaced him with the world’s leading expert on the Great Depression.
The Bernanke is just doing everything he can to prevent collapse into depression…. even demonstrating a willingness to lie.
Let’s say they had said, “We are so toast” in 2006…. then what?
So, they lied and said everything would be a-ok.
Now, do they say, “We lied 5 years ago, but now we’re telling the truth that everything is going to be okay?” and hope people beleive them now?
Or do they say, we slightly misjudged the effects and depth of a possible slowing of the housing market?
When you are playing poker, it is best to not give your hand away, especially when you are big blind and were delt crud cards into your short stack. Your only option is to bluff.
i thought they were GODS??
They are NOT artists. Unless they’re BS artists.
I just did a google search for “fed missed housing bust”. There must be a hundred separate stories, all nearly identical.
I find that amazing. It seems if you can inject a story into some root feeder of the mainstream media, multiple outlets pick it up.
Without the blogosphere, the media is nearly a monoculture.
The root dir is called “Associated Press”.
90%+ of the “national news” content of most newspapers are just articles they have purchased from the AP. Mix in some local sports, something about the local city govt, a few press releases from local organizations, and then add in the forecast from the national weather service, DONE.
Video shows Fort Lauderdale attack that caused man to lose leg
By Juan Ortega, Sun Sentinel
2:12 a.m. EST, January 13, 2012
FORT LAUDERDALE— Surveillance cameras recorded a violent encounter outside a convenience store that left a man severely injured and a second charged with attempted felony murder, police said Thursday.
The newly released footage shows a shirtless attacker hurling bricks at a car that caused it to veer toward a building and pin a bystander against a pole, leaving the bystander seriously injured, according to Detective Travis Mandell, spokesman for Fort Lauderdale police.
Mohammad Bachar Al-Attar, of Tamarac, “would have died there on scene without proper medical treatment,” Mandell said
He was taken to Broward General Medical Center, and his left leg was amputated above his knee, police said. He was listed in fair condition Thursday, a hospital spokeswoman said.
An investigation led police to Clarence Hall, 18, who was arrested Tuesday on charges of attempted felony murder, burglary with assault or battery, throwing a missile into a vehicle and criminal mischief, Mandell said.
According to police, Hall was engaged in a type of turf dispute with a teenage boy and Timara Wimber, whose car was parked near the store. Hall punched the teenager, kicked their car, taunted them and grabbed bricks from nearby, police said.
After the collision, the attacker fled.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-market-attack-folo-20120112,0,4480562.story -
Attempted murder? C’mon, it was just a simple turf dispute. Just like what happened at Fort Hood was a simple case of workplace violence.
Has anyone been watching the housing stocks?
I usually do but I apparently haven’t been paying attention since august.
Lots of them have just about doubled. I can’t believe it. well of course i do but you know what i mean.
i do believe it’s a suckers rally in a bear market, but either the stocks fall or the RE market actually rebounds (or both are artificially kept high).
it is rather astounding.
Lots of them have just about doubled. I can’t believe it. well of course i do but you know what i mean.
I have noticed. I’ve been thinking seriously of getting another short position in ITB. I don’t believe the fundamentals support this rally.
i do believe it’s a suckers rally in a bear market
I agree. And I’d be shorting those stocks if I could.
Why can’t you, Slim?
Doesn’t it take some really big money to get into stock shorting? I’m not exactly long in the big money department, if you get my drift.
Don’t do it. If you are short, your upside in limited but your downside is unlimited. Unless you have a leak at GS, you’ll be the patsy at the table. I have a cautionary tale…
Doesn’t it take some really big money to get into stock shorting?
Nope; just like buying individual shares, it can be done with small amounts or large amounts.
The one thing to be careful about is not to over-extend, just like trading on the long side with margin. When you are carrying a naked short, you can be forced to buy and close out your position if it moves sufficiently against you and you don’t have sufficient cash in your account to maintain the position.
But it can be done without a large amount of money.
MrBubble’s cautionary tale should be kept in mind, though.
I read housing stocks are up on a prediction the government is about to launch a plan to save housing.
Just a few days ago I read this in Yahoo finance
so whats the plan ?
The plan is to start a positive feedback loop by getting people to spread the word that there might be a plan. Looks like it’s working.
FNMA is up 13% for the week. At .23/share, Slim, you could at least have some fun….
Regis sells Greenwich home for $3 million
Staff reports
09:28 a.m., Friday, January 13, 2012
Regis Philbin has sold one of his Greenwich homes for $3 million, the Wall Street Journal reported.
The 6,000-square-foot Meeting House Road home — one of two owned in town by the retired TV host and his wife Joy — was originally put on the market in 2008 for $5.9 million and re-listed for $3.8 million in July.
The home has four bedrooms and eight bathrooms.
The house sits on a six-acre property near Mianus River State Park that includes a pool, a tennis court and a gazebo. The floor plan includes an eat-in kitchen, a formal dining room, a library with a wet bar and two family rooms, one of which is adjacent to the kitchen.
In a show last spring on which Philbin interviewed 96-year-old Greenwich resident Helen Weisner, the host bemoaned the dropping value of the house.
“I bought at the top of the market, but now I just want to sell the house that I loved so much, ” Philbin said. “I loved that house. Why did I move?”
Two vacant houses on the street have held down the value of Philbins’ home.
A Colonial at 23 Meeting House road and a Mediterranean-style home across the street have been sitting, neglected for several years.
http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/ - 79k -
“I bought at the top of the market, but now I just want to sell the house that I loved so much, ” Philbin said. “I loved that house. Why did I move?”
Classic. Overpay at the top of the market, then chase the market down.
Barney Fife for President, 2012.
“If you can manage it, do your inspection on a cold wet day.”
Better yet, do your check out after 3 days of rain and spend some time at top and bottom of structure. Always be looking for vertical cracks in foundation or basement walls. Getting stuck with a house where the foundation is subject to differential settlement is a high dollar mistake you don’t want to make. Do not be afraid to spend time at the roof from underneath. I don’t care how much fiberglass insulation is there… just go up. If you don’t have an eye for looking down building lines, bring some dry line and a couple finish nails if you suspect wows and bows in walls. Also….wells tend to send trash into the house after a substantial recharge of groundwater during a rain event so run the water good and hard for 10 minutes.
When your wallet is safe to proceed, start writing your 10 page $50k punchlist.
In the meantime, why buy a house today when you can buy later for 60% less?
Thanks, RAL! I just KNEW you would see it my way! Seriously, I appreciate your cold, hard look at the si-choo-a-shun.
Best,
Realtors are Liars Acolyte
Peace Jane.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-13/americans-clueless-paying-wall-street-20-billion-for-bad-swaps.html
Yet another Wall Street swindle costs US taxpayers $20 billion. Isn’t crony capitalism grand?
And we’re worried about undeserving people receiving foodstamps? This swindle alone probably eclipses any fraudulent SNAP that is handed out.
…and those damn unions!
The breadth and depth of these financial swindles (all perfectly legal of course - “Wall Street doesn’t violate the law because they are the law”) is truly startling.
And through all of it, except for a few ancillary players, no one has been prosecuted. Financier or public official.
And we’re worried about undeserving people receiving foodstamps?
Yes. Some of us are capable of being worried/bothered by *both*, believe it or not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/09/world/europe/amid-economic-strife-greeks-look-to-farming-past.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2
Greeks going back to live off the land. Not sure that’ll work here, what with hedge funds buying up so much prime agricultural land.
Recall that during WWII, Victory Gardens accounted for something like 40% of American vegetable production. And, lately, small-plot gardening is coming back in a big way.
Case in point: Just down the street, a couple of my neighbors are trying to get as self sufficient in food production as possible. From what I can see, they’re making pretty good progress.
Yeah, I work with a group that helps homeowners (and renters) take out grass (this country’s largest agricultural crop) and plant edibles. My tenth acre is a mostly garden, although it is quite a daunting challenge to produce even a small portion of one’s own food, even on a plant-based diet.
Fortunately I’ve forged relationships with people in the county or in the islands with land that I could sharecrop or homestead if tshtf.
Very few of my collegues watch TV, so we this is a frequent topic of conversation (ie, food security).
what with hedge funds buying up so much prime agricultural land.
Well they’ll have to hire an army to keep the squaters off of it.
Well, then, that will solve the Greek unemployment problem.
“…what with hedge funds buying up so much prime agricultural land….”
Well, they need SOME place to plant all those hedges….
Monday could be interesting. Meh, given it was announced after hours, maybe no one will notice/care?
9 eurozone nations downgraded by S&P
“NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — Standard & Poor’s said Friday that it has downgraded the credit ratings of nine euro area governments, including AAA-rated France and Austria.
The ratings agency lowered its rating for Italy, Spain, Portugal and Cyprus by two notches. The move means Italian bonds are now rated BBB+, which is S&P’s lowest so-called investment grade category.
.
.
S&P said the move reflects a combination of economic and financial factors, as well as “an open and prolonged dispute among European policymakers over the proper approach to address challenges.”
Specifically, the agency pointed to weakening economies, tightening credit conditions across the eurozone, rising interest rates for a growing number of governments and the “deleveraging” of both governments and households.
“Today’s rating actions are primarily driven by our assessment that the policy initiatives that have been taken by European policymakers in recent weeks may be insufficient to fully address ongoing systemic stresses in the eurozone,” said S&P.”
Now like crime ridden Lake Worth, Riviera Beach is another place where they have allowed house prices to drop back to and below pre=bubble prices. You could get an affordable single family house there.
Riviera Beach woman accused of stabbing boyfriend with used needle
By Cynthia Roldan Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 1:11 p.m. Friday, Jan. 13, 2012
A Riviera Beach woman was arrested on Thursday after she was accused of stabbing her boyfriend with a used hypodermic needle.
Patricia Bokor, 40, is being held at the Palm Beach County Jail in lieu of $25,000 bond. She is facing an aggravated battery charge.
According to the probable cause affidavit, Riviera Beach Police responded to the couple’s home in the 2600 block of Park Avenue at 3:23 a.m. on a report of a stabbing. When the officer arrived, Bokor’s boyfriend said he’d just been stabbed in the arm by Bokor.
When the officer asked Bokor what happened, she changed her story at least three times. Bokor also explained that she has hepatitis C and that the needles are for her treatment, the affidavit stated.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/riviera-beach-woman-accused-of-stabbing-boyfriend-with-2100188.html -
latest crime news »
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