January 24, 2012

This Deflation-Like Attitude Among Buyers

The Lakeland Times reports from Wisconsin. “Property values are continuing their dramatic downward slide in Minocqua and in other northern Wisconsin property-taxing entities, and the region is no exception as the nation struggles with a devastating housing market implosion that just doesn’t seem to have an end in sight. Even as people lose as much as 50 percent of the value of their homes, and sometimes more, average property tax bills are staying put right about where they were. Minocqua town chairman Mark Hartzheim said one property in Minocqua that had listed at more than $700,000 had sold recently for $269,000 or $279,000.”

“‘Now the sevens, that was way too high,’ Hartzheim said. ‘That’s when the market was hot. But there was a time when that could have been legitimately sold for 500-something.’”

“Others have cited other properties in apparent similar freefall, including a lakefront property with a 3,000 square-foot home and 150 feet of frontage, which was going at $350,000, down from around $850,000. Hartzheim says it’s the tax rate that fluctuates, not the levy amount, and fluctuation is a two-way street. Just as your taxes won’t go down by 25 percent if you lose 25 percent of the value of your property, they don’t rise by 25 percent if your property rises in value by that much.”

“‘You ride the bubble up, you ride the bubble down,’ he said.”

The Herald Palladium in Michigan. “Over the past year, Paul Dumke, a consultant with Core Real Estate in Bridgman and Stevensville said, many sellers have realized that houses must be priced according to current market conditions, not based on a value of five years ago. ‘Now they’re realizing this is no different from the stock market ‘and I have to take my pill,’ said Dumke, a Realtor for seven years and president of the association.”

“For example, a house in Union Pier sold for $295,000 last year, down about 13.5 percent from $335,000 three years earlier. But a person who takes such a loss in selling a house may come out ahead when buying a different house that has also lost value.”

The Post Bulletin in Minnesota. “Home sales in Austin increased by a whopping 17.1 percent in 2011. Low interest rates and a wide selection of homes helped increase sales, said Angie Schott, a Winona Realtor who’s the the SEMAR MLS president.”

“I would not say we are out off the woods yet with regard to the housing slump, since there are many sellers yet struggling to sell at a price that balances what they purchased their home for, Schott said. ‘Rather we may be at the start of a stabling market, and we can watch the data at the start of 2012 to know for sure.’”

The Northern Star in Illinois. “Members of the local Move On Council braved freezing winds to protest against banks foreclosing homes during the last four years. ‘The reason we’re out here is because in the last four years, one in 10 homes in DeKalb County has been foreclosed,’ said Richard Gallati, core member and recruitment coordinator for the Move On DeKalb Sycamore Council.”

“Although she is not a member of Move On, Julie Kiefer-Bells, of DeKalb, said she believes the crisis would not have happened were the Federal Consumer Protection Bureau (FCP) around years ago. Kiefer-Bells said it is too easy to misunderstand the fine print. This is why several homeowners believed their incomes would rise.”

“‘But that didn’t come out to be true,’ Kiefer-Bells said. ‘They started losing jobs, and that’s why so many who were innocent and believed those things could not handle the mortgage amount. It’s heart-breaking to skim through the classifieds and see so many homes for sale.’”

The Chicago Tribune in Illinois. “The Illinois Association of Realtors reported that existing-home sales in the Chicago area eked out a 1.3 percent gain last year, compared with 2010. However, sales within the city of Chicago dropped 7.2 percent from 2010, to 17,715 homes sold. For the year as a whole, median prices declined 11.9 percent and 13.8 percent for the Chicago area and the city, respectively.”

“‘People are gravitating toward foreclosures and short sales right now and that’s causing the median prices to drop,’ said Loretta Alonzo, a real estate agent at Century 21 Alonzo & Associations in La Grange and president of the Illinois Association of Realtors.”

“‘There’s this deflation-like attitude among buyers that the longer I wait, the better price I’m going to get,’ said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank. ‘It’s a cat-and-mouse game with sellers. And buyers believe time is on their side. If we can get a couple months where homes stabilize, it will give buyers a sense of urgency.’”

The Newark Advocate in Ohio. “There were 778 homes sold in Licking County the last half of 2011, up from 666 during the last six months of 2010. But, the expiration of the home buyer tax credit likely stifled activity late in 2010. Anna Kuhns, a Newark resident in temporary housing since returning to the area in November, continues searching for a home for herself and her husband. ‘I’ve been a little disappointed, especially in the Newark-area older homes,’ Kuhns said. ‘People may have an overestimation of what their home is worth. Some look like they’ve been on the market a long time, but there hasn’t been a dramatic price cut.’”

“Kuhns said she bought a much larger home in Indiana for the same mortgage payment she made in Newark, before leaving for six months. She seeks a four-bedroom, two-bath home here for $210,000 or less. She finds some homes too old without proper maintenance, some newer homes too small, and others overpriced. The sellers are either downsizing or underwater on their mortgage and can’t afford to negotiate much on the price.”

“Still, she describes herself as optimistic about the market in 2012. ‘It really has nowhere to go but up,’ Kuhns said. ‘It’ll probably stay the same or go up a little bit.’”

“Stephen Johnson, the city of Newark’s auditor, bought a new house, but has been unable to sell his old house, so he’s stuck with two homes, for now. His former home has been on the market for six months. ‘I don’t believe anybody has looked at it the last several months,’ Johnson said. ‘I think it must just be uncertainty on the part of the buyer. People are afraid of losing their jobs or (having) their pay frozen.’”

“Johnson said he might resort to renting his former residence if it doesn’t sell by the summer. ‘We reduced the price once,’ Johnson said. ‘I’m willing to entertain any offers, but I don’t want to lower the price right now. Price doesn’t seem to be the issue. It’s just (lack of) traffic.’”




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24 Comments »

Comment by vinceinwaukesha
2012-01-24 09:00:24

Ah a post from my home state. Thank you Ben. In regards to

“Others have cited other properties in apparent similar freefall, including a lakefront property”

you have to realize that for decades lakefront has been like condos. Fastest to fly up, fastest to crash down. In fact the only thing more volatile than lakefront, is condos, as far as I can tell.

Every WI lakefront owner thinks a rich stockbroker from Chicago will gladly buy their lakefront shack for a good chunk of a million bucks. The problem is there are more lakefront shacks than there are brokers in Chicago. Whoops.

My grandparents lived/retired on Lake Tomahawk which connects more or less to Minocqua, and later sold and moved to the lakefront at beaver lake which connects to pine lake, just 20 miles from Milwaukee. You see, a lakefront retirement home in the middle of nowhere sounds like a great investment when you’re 40, but when you’re 60, you’d prefer a hospital within two hours drive. So that is a “scam” or whatever than has been going on for generations, sell for big $$$$$ to 40 something buyers, buy for small $$ from 60 something buyers. So the price thing is extremely distorted based on retirement rates, etc. I would guess the large number of retiring baby boomers will semi-permanently depress prices up north for a couple decades to come.

The other volatility is related to roadwork and gasoline prices. J6pack is programmed to live extremely close to the bone, so gas prices going up 50 cents might mean they literally cannot afford to drive up to the lake cottage this weekend.

The biggest problem “up north” faces is a total lack of gainful employment. Gas station, hotel/RV park/restort, restaurant, tavern, food store, government, car/atv/boat mechanic, that’s about it. Now that I think about it, since most of the jobs in Milwaukee have gone to China or India, thats pretty much all we have “down south” so I guess its not so different here.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-24 09:19:03

Vince,

You perfectly described the dichotomy between NYC tristate area and upstate NY/VT and NH.

And the dream world thinking NY/VT and NH of natives(my family included) is truly pitiful. I feel bad for some of them who say such outlandish, stupid $hit that I don’t even beat them with it anymore. Their only fault is that they made the decision stay in in the economic dark zone.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-24 10:48:15

I have family in northern VT. One of them is a longtime home remodeler. Guess what — a good bit of his business comes from the second home crowd.

Which led to a two-month stretch of his not having a lick of business last winter. I’m told that he has an all-winter remodeling job for this winter, and good for him, because he’s very good at what he does.

But I wonder if, in a few years, he’ll be able to sell his biz to someone younger. Because VT kids, if they’re staying in the Green Mountain State, aren’t exactly lining up to be remodelers for the 1%-ers from NY and CT.

Comment by Realtors Are Liars®
2012-01-24 10:57:52

It’s the dead zone. But you’re right…. there is no employment in the winter(6 months) and the other 6 months are low wage earnings. It’s going to take years for the metro morons to implode financially and leave the state though.

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Comment by Montana
2012-01-24 10:57:06

sounds like a great investment when you’re 40, but when you’re 60, you’d prefer a hospital within two hours drive.

If not closer! I’m seeing my 40-something friends go all-in with the mountain cabins now. At least we will no be so burdened. I’d like to get rid of what we have now, but at least we’re 15 min from two hospitals, which we’ve used a lot over the years.

 
Comment by Elanor
2012-01-24 12:54:30

I have enough trouble taking care of ONE house. Why would I want another?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-24 14:03:02

You mean you don’t want to brag to everyone about your mistake on the lake? Or your mountainous error with that terrific view of the Rockies?

Comment by Montana
2012-01-24 14:22:23

LOL. In all fairness, some people who got in early at the more obscure lakes here - and stuck to modest a cabin and improvements - are doing okay. Kinda envy them but it’s a little late now.

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Comment by Carl Morris
2012-01-24 09:17:51

And buyers believe time is on their side. If we can get a couple months where homes stabilize, it will give buyers a sense of urgency.

A couple of months? A couple of years maybe. Good luck with that.

Comment by Blue Skye
2012-01-24 11:43:29

That quote caught my eye too. He means a couple of months, I suspect. The urgency will be a false urgency, but he wants to see more scukers pulled in.

 
 
Comment by polly
2012-01-24 09:41:38

‘I’m willing to entertain any offers, but I don’t want to lower the price right now. Price doesn’t seem to be the issue. It’s just (lack of) traffic.’

I think that we should start a charity fund to send these folks to a basic Microeconomics class. Seriously. Elasticity of demand is not that hard a concept.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-24 10:50:05

I think that we should start a charity fund to send these folks to a basic Microeconomics class. Seriously. Elasticity of demand is not that hard a concept.

And I say we start a contest for the best offer entertainment. Who can do a good job of giving those offers entertainment like they’ve never had before? C’mon, HBB-ers, let’s see your talent.

 
Comment by BetterRenter
2012-01-24 10:55:45

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it.”

I find myself using this Sinclair quote the most, since it’s the social trend that most requires criticism.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2012-01-24 10:10:57

“‘There’s this deflation-like attitude among buyers that the longer I wait, the better price I’m going to get,’ said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank. ‘It’s a cat-and-mouse game with sellers. And buyers believe time is on their side. If we can get a couple months where homes stabilize, it will give buyers a sense of urgency.’”

Irrational exuberance ain’t all that any more…at least until the Fed’s centrally planned housing price reflation program kicks into overdrive.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-24 10:53:17

Irrational exuberance ain’t all that any more…at least until the Fed’s centrally planned housing price reflation program kicks into overdrive.

I think the Fed has something big working against it. And that is the changing tastes of the American people.

Recall that after the Great Crash of 1929, the stock market wasn’t a very appealing place for a lot of folks. For small investors, the stock market didn’t come back into fashion until the 1960s, and it really took off during the 1980s.

From my perch here in Tucson, I’m already hearing an earful about how home ownership ain’t what it’s cracked up to be. How renting isn’t the end of the world. And so forth and so on.

Comment by Blue Skye
2012-01-24 12:09:23

My dad lost a bunch (about 50%) on our house in Buffalo in ‘60. He swore he would never buy a house again. He didn’t. These bad tastes last a generation.

 
Comment by Moman
2012-01-24 12:14:15

The hard thing is that it’s just not possible to get accurate data on the tastes and preferences that you describe. I’ve been thinking and hearing much of the same thing as you - and in my young cohort, many of my friends/associates are either downsizing, planning to downsize, or wishing they could. I haven’t talked to a single person who wants that extra bedroom or extra car. The discussions have been about buying less, doing with less, and saving more.

 
 
 
Comment by Augusta Real Estate
2012-01-24 13:39:58

There is a lot of work to do in this area. It will not be easy

 
Comment by Augusta Real Estate
2012-01-24 13:41:19

Nice post, only time will tell

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-01-24 15:12:38

Is this a robo-troll spammer? (Paging Ben…)

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-01-24 15:31:49

I think I hear the dogs barking (Terminator reference).

 
 
 
Comment by Overtaxed
2012-01-24 14:57:39

“Hartzheim says it’s the tax rate that fluctuates, not the levy amount, and fluctuation is a two-way street.”

Except in FL, where you have functional morons running the tax system. Property value doubles, taxes double (for non-FL residents) and the rate stays the same.

I have Save Our Homes (I’m a beneficiary of it). It’s still the most destructive tax system ever passed in the great state of FL. During the boom the taxing bodies were looking for ways to burn the money; they had so much of it that I think they were building bunkers to hold 100 dollar bills. The tax system in FL allows the targeting of non-voters (non-residents of the state); an absolutely great way to ensure that taxes go nowhere but up.

 
Comment by erik
2012-01-24 15:40:45

I’m 65 and grew up in Maine.
When I was a kid lots of people had “camps” on lakes and a few had “cottages” in shore “colonies”. The “camps” were small primitive places, not winterized, and had a single simple bathroom. The shore “cottages” were the same. I recall the lake “camps” had wooden shutters that closed off the windows for the winter after the plumbing was drained. A local person was usually paid a modest retainer to shovel snow off the roofs if it got too deep (less of a problem these days). The “camps” were nearly always owned by locals from the towns, many of them blue collar, who could afford such things since they were built for a few thousand dollars and taxed modestly.
Virtually all gone now with the lots sold off to swells from the big cities who tore down the camps and built large vanity houses which they occupy less than the the people of old did the modest little camps. The previous poster talking about too many lakefront houses for too few stockbrokers had it right. With real estate so much is priced at the margins and vacation houses are way out on the margins, especially when the “owners” are counting on $4K a week vacation rentals.

Comment by 2banana
2012-01-24 17:47:57

Back in the day - NO bank would lend money to purchase these “cabins”

So they were ALL cash deals.

0% down, no job, fed guaranteed mortgages changed all that…

 
 
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