Bits Bucket for February 9, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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I don’t know how they did it, but my wife’s cousins bought a house in Pasco before selling the townhouse that they paid $200k for (that’s worth $60k). They stopped paying their mortgage a while ago, so I guess they saved that money and bought before the credit ding. Buy and bail I guess…
Good to know I’m still competing with 2005-2007 buyers.
“They stopped paying their mortgage a while ago, so I guess they saved that money and bought before the credit ding.”
Sounds like credit fraud. But perhaps that is no big deal, provided you don’t happen to be a systemically risky investment bank.
Before any attorneys jump in to critique my definition of what fraud is, let me point out that only an attorney would question whether deliberately misrepresenting one’s credit position to qualify for a new loan is fraud.
Doesn’t sound like anything to me. There aren’t enough facts around. Do you know that there was a question on the application asking if they had stopped paying on any other debt? Lenders tend to pull credit reports and scores rather than rely on self-reporting. Even during the bubble they used FICO scores. Oh, and if the loan was taken out in one name and the loan that wasn’t being paid was in the other person’s name, there wouldn’t have to be fraud at all.
Your assumption that anything that sounds “off” must be a criminal act is disturbing to me. I hope you never have to face a prosecutor that thinks something that sounds “off” has to be criminal somehow.
Yes, these rules protect people who have done something underhanded. They also protect all of us. Only breaking the law is illegal. And when you get down to it, society doesn’t prioritize prosecuting all criminal violations. If it did, there would never be an out of work lawyer in this country and the criminal justice system would take up a *much* larger part of federal, state and county budgets.
My violin teacher used to poke fun at me for “rising to the bait.”
Spending a few seconds reminding people that you don’t know what you are talking about is no burden on me.
Thanks for humoring me, Polly.
“Yes, these rules protect people who have done something underhanded. They also protect all of us. Only breaking the law is illegal. And when you get down to it, society doesn’t prioritize prosecuting all criminal violations. If it did, there would never be an out of work lawyer in this country and the criminal justice system would take up a *much* larger part of federal, state and county budgets.”
Why is it that so many of your posts come off sounding like a blanket pardon for criminal acts?
Because that is what the budgets that we have at the local, state and federal level mean. If you want to catch everything, you have to watch everything. Everything. You would need cameras everywhere or cops everywhere. You would need people reviewing and following up on every significant piece of paper related to finances created in our society. We don’t do that. If you wanted that, it would bring business to a practical stand still. We may have gone too far in the direction of not reviewing and/or pursuing anything, but that decision is implicit in the level of enforcement that people are willing to pay for.
The fact that people don’t know that they are doing that when they vote for a politician that promises to lower executive branch expenditures is irrelevant. And they make that decision when they vote for politicians that want businesses to be “self-regulating” or who think that disclosure is all that is ever needed. Business doesn’t self-regulate anymore. And sometimes disclosure isn’t enough, though the internet makes it more robust than it used to be.
Lets bring it closer to home. It is February. Getting close to tax time. Would you want a full audit every year? Yours might not be too hard, but would you want to pay for tax enforcement at all levels that paid for an audit for every person every year. Would you want the IRS to fingerprint all children so they could make sure that each kid is only being taken as a deduction on one tax return? What about Medicare fraud. Would you want to pay for the government to hire doctors to visit every recipient to check to make sure that they actually received the services paid for? What level of intrusion into your life are you willing to tolerate and pay for? Well, that is how much enforcement you get. Does it mean some people get away with some stuff, yeah, it does. And a lot of nasty, underhanded things aren’t illegal. Welcome to the world. It isn’t fair.
don’t the apps ask borrowers to list other obligations any more? you’d think it would be no big deal for the lender to check on the payment status of other debts…or that the nonpayment would show up in the fica score.
If you are looking for a particular crime, you don’t need surveillance. You only need to turn over the likely stones. In most cases, you have to hold your nose and look away not to notice what’s wrong.
“In most cases, you have to hold your nose and look away not to notice what’s wrong.”
That’s fine, so long as you are paid well to hold your nose and look away.
Which stones do you turn over? Lets say you are looking for people who claim too many dependents on their taxes. Do you only review people who claim 5 or more? I would be in violation of that rule if I even claimed one. Do you audit everyone who claims one dependent on their tax form?
It sounds easy when you say it. Finding ways to identify the worst violations is easy in the rear view mirror. Doing it prospectively is not easy. And it is intrusive.
Yes, and I was speaking as a forensic investigator, one who looks for cause after an accident.
“Lets say you are looking for people who claim too many dependents on their taxes.”
Too easy Polly. I do get your drift though.
If you are familiar with the animal, you will spot him at a glance, and you will know where to look.
Blue:
That is something I always liked figuring out… was how did this accident happen?
Was it driver error car malfunction, or as i suspect it was the city at fault for not fixing the huge pothole which broke the tie rod which made the car un-steerable and it crashed into 3 others.
Or the lack of lighting, or how badly the roads are painted which led to going into the gutter and bouncing off the guard rails…
Or my favorite is here in NYC bright sunlit day, sunglasses on and a tunnel with NO overhead lights on…dark & scary as crap…
How did you get into this line of work?
This is confusing. There’s criminal fraud and then there is civil fraud. I’d think the lenders have a claim for civil fraud, IF the borrower omitted or misrepresented something on the application. My guess is, the loan mongers didn’t ask, or the lenders don’t care to pursue a fraud claim.
dj,
For my line of work, it’s usually figuring out how that piece of machinery got blown up.
“If you want to catch everything, you have to watch everything. Everything. You would need cameras everywhere or cops everywhere.”
I totally agree. Given the systemic fraud in our financial system, a top-down approach to root it out is warranted. Trying to go after individual fraudsters one at a time when it is so prevalent would be akin to treating cancer once cancerous cell at a time.
Hit the “send” key a moment too soon:
onceone“or the lenders don’t care to pursue a fraud claim”
This is a huge part of the legal system. You don’t go after people who are judgement proof. That doesn’t mean they didn’t do anything wrong or have a valid defense for why they did it. It means they don’t have enough money to bother. Now, with a strategic default, there might be enough money to go after. Might. If they have other debts, you could end up winning and still find yourself in bankrupcty court fighting their other creditors for scraps. And you still have to prove that you depended on their disclosure. To disprove it, all the defendent has to do is find one example where a loan was given to someone with much lower qualifications on their application.
The opposite of judgement proof is “deep pockets.” I think you can guess what that means.
Yes, these rules protect people who have done something underhanded.
In this case, I don’t agree that there is necessarily anything underhanded going on. Buy-and-bail is a rational financial move.
The fact that one lender took a bad financial risk and loses on it seems perfectly fair to me. The fact that a _different_ lender choose to take a different risk at this point is time is their choice to make.
Everyone seems to analyze it as if the lenders are the same. They are different, and are choosing independent, different risks at different points in time.
“If you want to catch everything, you have to watch everything. Everything. You would need cameras everywhere or cops everywhere.”
If the penalties are stiff enough (double entendre?) most of these financial professionals will behave themselves.
thanks…I always liked investigations even when i was a paralegal.
dj,
For my line of work, it’s usually figuring out how that piece of machinery got blown up.
“They stopped paying their mortgage a while ago, so I guess they saved that money and bought before the credit ding.”
The house I made a short sale offer on is empty now because the owners bought a new house.
its smart ( if not ethical ) you buy a new house cheaper now that the bottom is near and bail on your old too expensive mortgage so what if you got a 2% refinance deal plus 40K mortgage reduction , that just bought you time to save up to buy a new better home.
they did this all day long in the early 1990’s around here, which is why I was so suprized to hear bankers say home borrowers will do anything to save their homes, uh no they won’t.
all the loses can be pay for by who ? Will the Banks strike back sure they will .
Borrowers will do anything to save their homes? In what parallel universe might that be happening?
Here in my nabe, the borrowers appear to be walking. We have what appears to be another case of this down the street and ’round the corner.
And, just a few steps away from that house is one that was rocking an AZREO “for sale” sign for a good bit of last year. Sign came down, and that TV-sized hole in the drywall was finally repaired. That was over the Christmas holidays. However, the house has been sitting there ever since.
which is why I was so suprized to hear bankers say home borrowers will do anything to save their homes,
That was a generalization born of a different era: back when people had significant equity in their homes for multiple reasons (significant down-payment requirements, holding it through an era of significant inflation, etc).
In those cases, it made economic sense to “do anything” to save your home, including defaulting on other debts while still servicing the mortgage. So people did.
This time _is_ different, in that we had the lowest recorded owners-equity in history; so the rational behavior is different as well. When you are deeply underwater, it makes good sense to do the opposite: service you CC debts while defaulting on your mortgage.
BTW, this switch in behavior was accurately predicted on the blog back in 2005/6.
BTW, this switch in behavior was accurately predicted on the blog back in 2005/6.
Yup, I remember that prediction. (Been aboard the good ship HBB since the spring of ‘06.)
Yup, I remember that prediction. (Been aboard the good ship HBB since the spring of ‘06.)
I remember being surprised by it myself, so I’m not trying to claim any credit for it! Hearing that discussion was an “Oh Wow” moment for me, when I found that I bought the argument.
“…it makes good sense to do the opposite: service you CC debts while defaulting on your mortgage.”
Sounds like there will be lots of good deals ahead for the extremely patient. In my case, I may end up being so darned patient that the money I save by not catching a falling knife will end up as downpayment money for when one or more of my kids are in the market, at which point prices may finally be reasonable once again relative to incomes and rents.
We know 3 people who bought their next house before selling the one they were in. One was because the new home needed some extensive maintenance before moving in, and the old one is on the market. This is a middle aged couple, both working, he’s higher income. She does ok too. I figured w/the stock market the way it is they probably just churned some assets and figured what the heck. It’s all a roll of the dice. They’ve priced their old home very competitively and it has been well cared for, however it is in a neighborhood where homes take a bit longer to move than other areas.
The 2nd couple is younger, probably not even in their 30s. She had a few gulps in her story telling but they’re doing a rent to own on their first home while utilitizing a bridge loan. Because it’s RTO they took a decent deposit up front which does offer her a bit of relief from her nerves over the situation.
The 3rd couple is in the business (realtor). For a while they owned 3 homes, but the large home in the new town didn’t work out and was quickly resold. That was a while ago. The original home here was rented out for a while (more than 2 years) but right now is back on the market. It’s a decent home although I think still a bit overpriced for the location. I don’t know why they didn’t move back in to that home. The price has been reduced about 15% since it’s initial listing. They instead bought another home that needed a bit of minor renovation. I always thought they overpaid for the 2nd home here considering the work they had to do to it.
One thing I’ve realized over all these years. My husband and I are the most fiscally conservative people we know.
“We know 3 people who bought their next house before selling the one they were in.”
I know a few who got stucco doing this, including lil’ sis. She and hubby have adjusted to their new moonlight gigs as landlords since finally realizing they cannot sell the home they didn’t sell back in 2006 when they bought a newer, bigger home.
We sweated the one and only time we settled on the new house before settling on the old one. That was even though our buyer was paying all cash and didn’t want a home inspection. My Murphy’s Law reasoning said, “Well, what if the guy dies (he was in his late 60’s to early 70’s) before he completes the purchase?”
We did a RTO on a home we owned in Utah. Never would have left that beautiful place until we realized that non-Mormans were not welcome in some parts of the Cache Valley. Luckily we collected $17,000 in deposit money before the guy stopped paying rent and moved out with our furniture, that I had agreed to sell him for 6k rather than move it back to Oregon. He decided that $0 was a better price and took off with it. All the while the home value was plunging; I don’t blame the guy for not buying it for the $365k we had agreed upon as a purchase price; because the value was plunging during his stay. Plus he lost his job…
Leaving with the furniture he promised to pay for got my goat though. Emails promising to pay; “the check just got lost in the mail”bit; his father died twice(guy could not keep his lies straight), you get the picture. We were not getting our furniture money and just wanted him out before he stopped neglecting things like blowing out the lines, or mowing the grass/watering(since he had broken the sprinkler system w/o informing us), our landscaping almost died before we hired someone to take care of responsibilities he had assumed when he talked himself into the original RTO deal. He was becoming more of a liablility. He did leave after 1 month of not paying rent and we let it go and we sold our Utah albatross.
We did not care to try our luck with Utah small claims court given we had been given 17k deposit money in a homemade RTO agreement; we felt that money would be at risk if we took him to court in essentially a foreign land (Cache County Utah). And what is a judgement against someone with no money worth anyway? We were so thankful to sell that home for 290k at the end of 09.
Easy come easy go I guess; as we purchased that home and furniture with “bubble cash”(as opposed to more legit $$ sources, such as stock market gains money from a “real” job or some such) @ $365,000. Because we had the 2 yr RTO in place, we could not sell the house quickly as the value plunged. But we weighed the stolen furniture that we were willing to sell him for 6k against the $17k RTO deposit money he forfeited when he left. Lucky to get that place sold, as the tenant started being a PITA. We knew the RTO deal was in trouble when we accepted three rent checks directly from the LDS. His job in sales hit hard times and the church was taking care of him. Should have listened to my wife who was leery of this smooth talking fella from the get go.
Leaving with the furniture he promised to pay for got my goat though. Emails promising to pay; “the check just got lost in the mail”bit; his father died twice(guy could not keep his lies straight), you get the picture.
Nothing like pious virtue.
“Should have listened to my wife who was leery of this smooth talking fella from the get go.”
“Women, love ‘em!” Cole Younger
as opposed to more legit $$ sources, such as stock market gains
Stock markets gains can be just as unearned, and bubble-generated, depending on their timing…
Kinda my point. We speculated in the homes we lived in; effectively having our cake and living in it too. Which worked for over a decade until it didn’t.
Does the REIC still do contingency sale contracts? That was a big deal here back in the 80s.
I know a guy, sales rep who worked with my husband, who sold his weird hillside multilevel home at the top of the market, as soon as the kids were gone. What an awful place. They rented some old house for awhile, and since the market was still roaring I could not figure out what they were doing. Then a few years later they bought a modest one-level place with a big shop and garage.
Now I am in awe of the guy.
I know a young couple here in FL who have tried and failed multiple times to “buy and bail”. They are waaaay underwater (paid $260k in 2007 for a house that might be worth $125) and are working under the advice of a retained attorney on their buy and bail scam. They want a bigger, fancier house which they feel can be bought for less money than they owe on their underwater special. The financing has fallen through at the last minute on the last two they had contracts on. They have decided to buy a lot and build! That’s the latest hot off the press.
They want a bigger, fancier house which they feel can be bought for less money than they owe on their underwater special.
We’re Americans. We deserve it.
The financing has fallen through at the last minute on the last two they had contracts on.
Could it be that lenders are finally wising up to the whiff of buy-and-bail??
I wish that was the case, but I don’t think so. The first time there failed inspections requiring huge escrow amounts down, and the second there were no area comps (log cabin construction). I believe everything is a go on the new construction deal, so they might pull of their very first buy-and-bail! Yay! Way to go Amerikans!
Romney’s Returns Refute His Tax Argument: David M. Abromowitz
For all the attention devoted to Mitt Romney’s tax returns last month, one element went largely unnoticed: They directly refute the Republican candidate’s argument that higher tax rates deter capital investment.
Simply put, all of the investments made by Bain Capital LLC, the private-equity company Romney cofounded in 1984 and ran until 1999, occurred when capital-gains rates were much higher than they are today. Yet Bain consistently attracted massive amounts of private capital, and thrived.
The Romney tax returns vividly illustrate that fair tax rates don’t deter those whom Republicans now routinely call “job creators” from investing.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-09/romney-s-returns-refute-his-tax-argument-commentary-by-david-abromowitz.html
How about traders and speculators?
“Yet Bain consistently attracted massive amounts of private capital, and thrived. ”
Not hard when the 1% saw their income rise over 300% over the last 20 years.
That can offset any tax rate short of 100%.
Yeah but Drudge linked to an article reporting taxpayers paid $1.6 billion to provide cell phones to Lucky Duckies. Keep your hate focused where it belongs please.
Kids — what’s the matter with kids today?
(Teenage daughter left half the lights on in the house, leading to dad’s case of insomnia…)
Have her pay the SDG&E Bill one month. That should cure her.
No income, no payment.
She can flip burgers, right? Or it can come out of her allowance until it’s paid for.
You don’t know the half of it PB. Lights on are nothing when the window is left open overnight at 12 degrees outside.
Dads - what’s the matter with parents these days?
If you can’t sleep with the lights on, turn them off. It isn’t rocket science.
D’oh. I turn the lights off almost every night, which has the unpleasant effect of waking me up and making cantankerous blog posts at obscene hours.
Easy solution: whenever you are awakened at night by lights that she has left on, open her door and flip her room lights on. Then go back to bed, leaving her light on.
Eventually she will get the point.
Most humans only really learn from their own personal experience, not other people’s related experience.
She needs real feedback, not spoken feedback.
“…open her door and flip her room lights on. Then go back to bed, leaving her light on.”
Here’s the rub: Not only were the hall lights on, outside her and our bedrooms, but her bedroom light was on, making it bright as day in her end of the house.
And she was sleeping like a baby…
my daughter does that sometimes. Falls asleep in her room after(during?) doing her homework. I don’t know how she sleeps with the lights on and the stereo humming along. But she is on the honor roll so we don’t go too nuts on her. She recently took a miscounted test back to her teacher and he gave her extra points for being diligent which brought her rare B up to another A.
Kids are the future; it could get interesting for them as our generation spends our parents generation’s left over wealth. I am sure you embrace their endearing qualities as we do; and roll with the changing moreys. And what an exiting time to grow up during tech boom 2; where almost everyone has multiple screens going all day long.
Facebook, texting, it is all greek to me. She is a powerpoint pro; while I just bumble along when I get the job of “teaching” it certain days. I wish I could bring her to work with me; I resort to letting the students show me what to do, so I better can help those students(like me) who aren’t so deft on the tech.
And my kids keep me current on things like two girls one cup (dont google that one!). What can you do; a girl on the bus last year was teaching how to give blow jobs and talking about the lesbian porn they watch. How does one keep their virgin ears safe? Thank God that girl is no longer at our school. And since mom works at their school; she knows who is being promiscuous or who has gone on the loco weed. And tomorrow I am teaching in my son’s 5th grade classroom, yay!
Oh I had the joy of showing juniors Superbowl ads yesterday(as per the teacher’s instructions). They made me blush. But it was marketing and hey, sex sells. And this was on network television but I was uncomfortable showing the risque ads. GoDaddy made me blush and wish I hadn’t shown it.
The students reaction; no biggie. They have seen it already. Interesting tangent, the singer flipping off the camera at halftime was considered obscene and scandalous. The gyrating dancers with their pelvises raised to the heavens at that same moment, not so much.
What’s an advertiser to do in a world of desensitized subjects? When in doubt, just write your message on a shapely female like GoDaddy did. Or in another; have female bend over and then drive her away as she morphs into a car(can’t remember which ad that was; guess it was not the best ad then)
Proposed weekend topic: What are the near- and long-term housing market implications of the robo-signing settlement? For instance, how will it play into presidential politics, near- and long-term U.S. housing market operation, private-versus-federally-funded mortgage loan availability, etc etc etc?
Politics? There aren’t even implications for the next news cycle.
Agreed.
(repost)FBs blaming Robo Signing is like a gambling addict raising hell with the casino for giving him counterfeit chips after he loses them all at the Roulette table. Yes, the chips were fakes, but he lost all his bets anyway so what difference does it make? The Casino should be investigated for the chip-counterfeiting problem but that is a totally separate issue. There would be no Robo-signing complaints if the bubble were still going strong (how horrible would that be? The real estate bubble was probably the most ugly era of disgusting greed I have witnessed in my 45 years), only when things go poorly for folks do they start desperately grasping for someone else to blame.
Actually the losers in the robosigning mess are the bond purchasers. Just as they assumed that the PITI and other representations were correct, they assumed that the banks did, indeed properly file the paperwork required to foreclose in case of default. If the loans never properly made it into the trusts, than they should be pushed back to the bnaks at par, which as we all know now is way more than they are worth.
Some of the originators weren’t banks and a lot of them aren’t around anymore, but for bank originators, that would be wonderful. Really, really wonderful.
This article has a reasonable overview:
Feds, states, banks agree to $26 billion mortgage settlement
By Julie Schmit, USA TODAY
Updated 51m ago
http://www.usatoday.com/money/story/2012-02-08/states-mortgage-settlement/53016420/1
This article has a good bullet list of benefits but WARNING: Page has automatic audio. I hate to link to it but it has data. Turn your speakers down or off before you click the link.
U.S. seals mortgage settlement with top banks
By Mary Ellen Podmolik Tribune staff reporter
10:20 a.m. CST, February 9, 2012
The majority of Illinois’ $1-plus billion will be used to offer assistance to three types of consumers, according to people familiar with the agreement:
– Former borrowers who lost their homes to foreclosure between January 2008 and last year will be eligible for as much as $2,000 if they indicate on a form to be sent to them that they were the victim of shoddy mortgage practices such as lost paperwork during the loan modification or foreclosure process.
– Delinquent borrowers who are underwater on their mortgages may be eligible for a writedown of the outstanding amount owed on their mortgages, which in effect will modify their mortgage.
– Finally, borrowers who are current on their mortgage payments but unable to refinance because they are underwater, meaning they owe more on the mortgage than the current market value of the home, will be eligible for loan refinancings at lower, but not the lowest, interest rates.
Nationally, a minimum of $17 billion will go directly to homeowners, with the bulk of it to be used for principal reductions, $3 billion for refinancing the mortgages of underwater borrowers and $1.5 billion for payments to consumers who lost their homes to foreclosure. Another $2.6 billion will go to states to use in foreclosure prevention programs, said people with knowledge of the deal. The federal government will receive $750 million.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-robisigning-settlement-to-be-finalized-20120209,0,1608260.story
Bloomberg’s analysis of the settlement:
Foreclosure Deal to Spur U.S. Home Seizures
Bloomberg
By Prashant Gopal and John Gittelsohn - Feb 9, 2012 2:36 PM ET
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-09/foreclosure-deal-to-spur-new-wave-of-u-s-home-seizures-help-heal-market.html
How should one advise friends who may have gone through wrongful foreclosure on how to qualify for a slice of the $1.5 bn compensation fund included in this settlement? My guess is that CA will make a high profile effort to contact robo-signing fraud victims who might qualify.
I don’t know how that original $25 bn figure originated (perhaps in the Wall Street banksters’ estimation, it was round and fat enough to fly), but I notice it grew by almost half before the California and NY AG’s agreed to sign on.
On The Money
THE HILL’s Finance and Economy Blog
New York, California expected to sign off on $37 billion foreclosure settlement
By Vicki Needham - 02/08/12 09:52 PM ET
A multi-billion settlement moved closer to completion on Wednesday as two holdout states agreed to sign a proposed $37 billion settlement with the nation’s largest banks over questionable foreclosure practices.
New York and California will join the agreement worked out between states’ attorneys general and Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citibank and Ally Financial, according to news reports on Wednesday night.
A final agreement, expected Thursday or Friday, would cover costs of reducing homeowners mortgage principal, refinancing and payments to homeowners affected by foreclosure abuses.
The deal includes $3 billion for refinancing loans and $32.3 billion for loan modifications along with $2.7 billion in guaranteed cash payments and about $1.5 billion for homeowners who went through wrongful foreclosure.
President Obama and congressional Democrats are pushing for a more thorough investigation into banks’ foreclosure practices, while banks, during the past few days of talks, have been negotiating to remove themselves from further legal liability from investigations by states’ attorneys general.
Under the settlement, banks would have immunity from civil lawsuits brought by the state attorneys general over “robo-signing” — when lenders signed off on foreclosure paperwork without thoroughly reviewing files, the main reason why banks came under scrutiny and halted or slowed the rate of repossessions about 18 months ago.
Delaware, Massachusetts and Nevada — all states undecided about whether to join the settlement — also were expected to sign onto the deal.
Authorities will be still be able to investigate claims over mortgage-backed securities that collapsed and a lawsuit filed by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman last week is still in play. The suit accuses some banks of defrauding homeowners going through foreclosure.
How about we bet that the monies will go into some black hole?
Interesting double entendre.
Interesting double entendre.
+1 LOL!
I didn’t vote for any black hole.
I hate to say, but $20,000 in principle relief won’t matter much to underwater CA borrowers, many of whom are underwater by well over $100,000. For evidence, look at any $1m+ listing that has been on the market for a while; you will quickly notice that (1) repricing tends to move downwards in large multiples of $100,000; (2) homes with drastic list price reductions often continue to sit on the market indefinitely.
It would also be quite revealing to know how $25 bn (or is it $37 bn) compares to the amount of profits Megabank, Inc has raked in from the use of robo-signing compared to traditional mortgage processing practices. Does anyone have a rough estimate?
Foreclosure Fiasco
Big states set to make mortgage deal real
By Jennifer Liberto @CNNMoney February 9, 2012: 5:12 AM ET
Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan is one of the participants in the foreclosure settlement talks that are expected to produce a mortgage settlement soon.
WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) — New York and California will join just about all the other states in a settlement with the nation’s largest banks aimed at helping homeowners struggling with loans bigger than the value of their homes, according to a person familiar with the talks.
A few other states were still on the fence as of late Wednesday, the person said.
With those two big states, the deal could be worth as much as $25 billion when it is announced, either Thursday or Friday, another person familiar with the talks said.
Requests for comment to the New York Attorney General’s Office were not returned. A spokesman from the California Attorney General’s Office said the state was still in negotiations.
For more than a year, state attorneys general, regulators, federal officials and big banks have been in talks about a settlement of allegations of improper foreclosures based on “robosigning,” seizures made without proper paperwork.
As of Wednesday night, at least 42 had signed on, which would yield as much as $25 billion available for qualified homeowners. The deal marks the largest housing relief available “underwater” homeowners whose principal exceeds their home’s value, as well as those who have been foreclosed on, since the financial crisis began.
Obama proposes new home refinancing plan
Under an earlier draft of the deal, some 1 million U.S. homeowners who are underwater on their mortgages could be eligible for as much as $20,000 in relief of principal owed, according to Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Shaun Donovan.
But the relief would only be available to those homeowners whose mortgages haven’t been sold to the government-sponsored mortgage guarantors Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
In return, mortgage servicers in states that agree to the deal would get immunity from future state servicing and originating claims — although homeowners could pursue claims against banks and states could still pursue criminal investigations.
New York’s participation had been shaky this week, because some of the banks involved in the multi-state deal had also been sued by Attorney General Eric Schneiderman last week. Those banks — Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JPMorgan Chase — had also asked for a legal pass from Schneiderman’s lawsuit, which accuses them of deceptive foreclosure practices for relying on the Mortgage Electronic Registration System.
On Tuesday, Schneiderman’s office organized a media briefing to talk about the deal and then canceled it minutes before it was supposed to begin.
The deal is supposed to protect consumers when it comes to robosigning, and ensure that mortgage servicers agree to communicate better, avoid delays and give homeowners who are late on mortgage payments a fairer shake.
The big question throughout the negotiations was how much money would be available to help homeowners, which depended on how many states agreed to the deal. If all 50 states sign on, the mortgage servicing settlement has the potential to offer as much as $25 billion. California’s participation raises the total settlement value by several billion dollars.
Generally, the attorneys general have been concerned that if they signed on to a deal, it would cripple their own investigations into mortgage cases.
At least one consumer advocacy group, the Center for Responsible Lending, has said the deal — while “no silver bullet” — leaves room to hold banks accountable in other mortgage probes, said Kathleen Day, a spokeswoman for the nonprofit.
…
Generally, the attorneys general have been concerned that if they signed on to a deal, it would cripple their own investigations into mortgage cases……………….and, yet, almost ALL of them are willing to do it.
For a pittance, they will “write-off” the misdeeds of this whole housing fiasco and let the enablers off the hook. I have discussed this in the past with the cozy relationship the SEC has with Wallstreet and the FED/TReasury/OCC/ad nauseum agencies have with the BAnksters.
The CRIMES will be “not admitted”, while the cases are settled for a payment of a small fine. Then the prosecutions STOP, the defendants are free to go about their businesses as if nothing happened and are free of criminal liability and prosecution. This is huge. It is also outrageous, which is why press coverage will be mostly a page 12 sideline story, if any ‘details’ are provided.
If the Obama/Bankster deal proceeds, then some people (mostly irresponsible buyers) will be given a government bailout, and everything will be swept under the rug.
This is government working as a criminal enabler, while working for it’s next re-election bid…………….get ALL this behind us, so we can say we “solved” the housing crisis and saved the banks.
The Congress should say NO.
All the bad loans will go to the taxpayers via fanny/freddie and the stupid voters won’t have a clue that they got fleeced again, at least the TAXPAYING voters, which is only 1/2 the voters. The others don’t care. It’s not their money.
The problem is the states desperately NEED that money for their budget shortfalls.
Rock meets hard place. Which is the lessor of the 2 evils?
For the people, it’s prosecution of the banks. For the states, it’s take the money and run.
Past experience shows us that that what needs to be done, won’t be done. Status quo is still the rule.
I haven’t seen all the details of the deal, but it seems that the rebellious AGs were able to stop the granting of broad immunity for several important areas of possible wrongdoing.
Massive prosecutions of criminal FRAUD would protect consumers. That’s how you stop FRAUD. You arrest and prosecute people and give them time in jail. Otherwise, it’s all a side-show.
I have the feeling that this deal is going to blow up in the AGs’ faces. And the banks’ faces too.
Folks, this is no tobacco settlement. And, if you think that the Occupy movement isn’t paying close attention, think again.
Watch things heat up in the coming months. For those of us who remember the sixties, think of those times. That’s what’s heading toward us.
I was just a kid but distinctly remember the riots and the cities burning. It made the Rodent King riots look amateur.
I can remember my mother being afraid to go into West Chester, PA for several days back in the late sixties. There was a riot.
Truth be told, the people had some reasons to be angry. Very angry. The borough was becoming increasingly Puerto Rican and black, and guess what, the police force was good ole boy white. That caused more than a bit of tension, and, yes, there was quite a bit of racial profiling. Kind of like Detroit in the late 1960s. The Livernois Riots didn’t start for the helluvit.
But, be those things as they were, we were white. And we just avoided West Chester for about a week.
Slim:
It would please me to no end to see 500,000 people at the Washington monument demanding federally funded elections and perp walks for bankers
But I have my doubts the kids have the guts to even try this. I mean they would have to stop playing on line games and watching porn oh wait…500,000 with i-pads and virtual sex….
ISTR that, at the beginning of 1963, the March on Washington wasn’t the highly anticipated event of the year. But then, in the sultry, steamy, humidity-so-thick-you-can-see-it month of August, there it was.
The issue back then was civil rights. This “settlement” isn’t quite in the same league. It will disappear shortly, while they take months to work out the nuts and bolts of the implementation, create and approve the forms, hire or assign staff, etc. Money might start being distributed by late summer but it will probably be later than that.
Can those of us that AREN’T underwater have 20k of principal reduction? No. So this deal does nothing for me.
Can those of us who own our properties free and clear be given a 20,000 tax credit for the next 10 years as a write-off? oh, wait, Obama wants “revenue enhancement”, i.e. MORE TAXES, not less spending, so that idea isn’t going to fly.
So, how is it we can re-direct taxpayer money to the pockets of potential voting blocs? Awfully crappy government.
Can those of us that AREN’T underwater have 20k of principal reduction? No. So this deal does nothing for me.
Can those of us who own our properties free and clear be given a 20,000 tax credit for the next 10 years as a write-off?
How would EITHER of those things help the banks???
You two are nuts.
For the paid-in-full homoaners: Maybe we can now qualify for no-doc 140% LTV NINJA cash-out refis so we can be in a position to buy and bail. Its only fair.
And what does the deal do for renters still paying bubble-era rents because the Fed is artificially propping up purchase prices?
Needless to say, the deal only can hurt us, by reducing the size of potential future inventory that could lead to improvements in future affordability.
“Kids — what’s the matter with kids today?”
Count your blessings.
Male, 17, arrested on first-degree murder charges in slaying west of Lantana
By Julius Whigham II
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 5:35 p.m. Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012
A 16-year-old male has died of gunshot wounds sustained this afternoon in an altercation west of Lantana, the Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office said.
A 17-year-old male has been arrested for first-degree murder, sheriff’s spokeswoman Teri Barbera said. The suspect’s identity has not been released.
(The argument was over a bicycle)
This was for Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower© .
Swing and a miss.
“Count your blessings.”
I do, one-by-one, day-by-day.
By contrast to my daughter’s contagious insomnia, my cuz’s similarly-aged daughter is a teenage runaway who has committed serious crimes. I will gladly endure my daughter’s coffee drinking habit, frequent insolence, and constant demands for gas money and thank my lucky stars and God that if there are much bigger problems, I am so far in the dark.
Amen, brothah! At least your daughter doesn’t get off on murdering little neighbor girls and writing about how “Ahmazing” it was in her diary. (Alyssa Bustamonte)
What’s worse, I’ve read that Alyssa committed the crime, then headed off to church.
Back up a minute. How do home equity cash outs and investment purchases suddenly become someone else’s fault?
“If you’re ineligible for refinancing just because you’re underwater on your mortgage, through no fault of your own, this plan changes that,” The One*
“Other changes include extending HAMP to investor-owned properties as well as requiring servicers to consider second liens and other debt in estimating debt-to-income ratios. ”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mortgage-modifications-benefit-mortgage-insurers-170723925.html
Nice break down of available FB relief programs. One tidbit:
HAFA’s benefits include: unlike in a conventional short sale, a HAFA short sale completely releases you from your mortgage debt after selling the property. This means you will no longer be responsible for the amount that falls “short” of the amount you still owe. The deficiency is guaranteed to be waived by the servicer; in a HAFA short sale, your mortgage company works with you to determine an acceptable sale price; HAFA has a less negative effect on your credit score than foreclosure or conventional short sales; and when you close, HAFA provides $3,000 in relocation assistance. Perhaps not cause to kick up your heels, but better than it could be and better than it would be without HAFA
http://www.vaildaily.com/ARTICLE/20120207/BIZ/120209876/-1/RSS
In other words, the program would make loans non-recourse* even in a recourse state, and ease the FICO hit. Make it easier for people to get out from under the house, give them a chance to move to a better job, rent, repair the FICO.
I advocated precisely this on HBB over a year ago. Is Obama reading HBB? There’s some moral hazard for Main Street, but why not? Main Street really needs to catch a break.
Oh, and I recall saying this should apply only to primary residences, no refi’s or second homes. Hope The O read that part too.
———
*Although the program couches this in terms of a “short sale,” at the end of the day, the bank gets the house and sells it for what it can get and the FB takes a FICO hit and walks. Effectively it’s the same as walking on a non-recourse loan.
Oxide,
I’m glad it’s so easy for you to advocate spending the MF-ing taxes I pay to both the banks and these- A-holes who overpaid. I like this country, but I’m getting ready to move to Costa Rica.
If I can not see who pay for it, then I assume I am paying it. I am main street, a renter. I will not get any break out of this “deal”, too bad for me, so puny I guess.
I’m with you oxide. On the whole it’s a positive for some of the walking wounded. I’m sure the republicans are livid that the FB weren’t just frog marched into the ranks of the homeless. I got no sympathy for the finance class who have been milking this scheme for decades. Now when are they going to re-instate the FSAB rules on mark-to-market?
Although the program couches this in terms of a “short sale,” at the end of the day, the bank gets the house and sells it for what it can get
No, I believe the HAFA program refers to _real_ short-sales; they nominal “owner” must list the property for sale and come up with an arms-length buyer.
“How do home equity cash outs and investment purchases suddenly become someone else’s fault?”
Actually, I think it’s much worse than that, as I believe you and I just (implicitly) received the bill for others’ home equity cashouts and investment purchases, in the form of the costs of the robo-signing settlement which Megabank, Inc is likely to pass on to its customers, which presumably include all Americans.
Don’t bank at a Megabank. There are other options.
We left Bank of America well over a decade ago. But when WaMu went belly up, we became JP Morgan-Chase customers. I grudgingly admit they offer very good customer service, at least if your services are limited to using the ATM machine.
By contrast, I recall in the late 1970s, when computerized banking was first implemented, having to argue with bank customer service reps about computer error on my statements.
Yawn…time to get back to sleep. Wake me when the Greek debt crisis ends.
Yours truly,
Rip Van Winkle
FT dot com
Last updated: February 9, 2012 9:53 am
Greek debt talks fail to break deadlock
By Kerin Hope in Athens, Peter Spiegel in Brussels and Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt
Demonstrators take part in a protest rally of the Greek Communist party against new austerity measures in AthensReuters
Greek political leaders failed to agree on fresh austerity measures during all night talks on Wednesday but were given breathing space to complete a €130bn rescue package and avert a full scale default.
Officials from the so-called troika – the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund – joined the discussions in the early hours in a failed effort to break a deadlock over proposals for deep pension cuts.
Greece has still to find an extra €325m of budget savings to complete a €3bn austerity package agreed with international lenders by the weekend.
A government official said on Thursday: “We are almost there, we’re confident this can be done in the next two weeks.”
Evangelos Venizelos, the finance minister, said he still expected to attend a meeting on Thursday of the eurogroup of finance ministers called to approve the Greek bail-out. “The country’s financial survival in the years ahead depends on this programme. I hope a positive decision will be taken [at the euro group meeting)”.
…
Stock traders have nothing to fear, because it’s all contained — just like subprime was in the U.S. back in 2007.
Feb. 9, 2012, 6:20 a.m. EST
‘Greece fatigue’ sets in amid further delay
Party leaders yet to resolve call for deep pension cuts
By William L. Watts, MarketWatch
FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — Financial markets on Thursday shrugged off yet another failure by Greek politicians to seal an austerity agreement that will pave the way for a second bailout, with strategists noting an element of “fatigue” among investors over the long-running political drama.
“The recent rise in asset prices seems to suggest one of two things, either that the market assumes that a deal will be reached at the last moment, or that the alternative [of a default] may not be that big a deal and as such containable, due to the recent actions of the [European Central Bank] in bringing down sovereign bond yields across Europe” through its long-term refinancing operations, said Michael Hewson, senior market analyst at CMC Markets.
…
because it’s all contained
You rang?
Just because an August 2011 stock market crash followed a period last July when insiders were selling off U.S. stocks in droves doesn’t mean that similar insider selling right now presages a spring 2012 stock market swoon — DOES IT!?
My portfolio is fairly lean in stocks, so I don’t really have my dog’s neck on the chopping block. But I would find a stock market selloff highly entertaining to behold, now that the Goldilocks scenario has taken hold of investor psychology.
Feb. 9, 2012, 12:01 a.m. EST
The insiders are selling heavily
Commentary: July was last time insiders were equally as bearish
By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatch
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (MarketWatch) — Corporate insiders are now selling their companies’ stock at a rate not seen since late last July.
That’s a scary parallel indeed, since that late-July spike in selling came just days before one of the more painful two-week periods in the stock market in years.
In early August, as you may recall, the U.S. government lost its triple-A credit rating, and the bottom dropped out of the stock market. Between the last week of July and the second week of August, the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 2,000 points.
…
DOW near 13,000. No surprise there.
Churn baby churn!
This kind of up-down, up-down market action must work fantastically for anyone who makes their income on churn (e.g. Megabank, Inc).
Buy, buy, buy!!! Sell, sell, sell!!!
Feb. 8, 2012, 2:08 p.m. EST
Bruce Bittles: Stocks due for a pullback
Don’t blame Greece for a pause in all the big gains, says Bruce Bittles, chief investment strategist at RW Baird & Co. He tells Larry Kofsky stocks were due for a pullback.
I guess with this news, it’s now safe to go all in to the stock market?
Feb. 9, 2012, 9:00 a.m. EST
U.S. stock futures rise on Greek deal
Bank of England expands asset-purchase program
By Polya Lesova, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock futures erased losses Thursday after reports that Greek politicians had reached an austerity deal and U.S. jobless claims fell again last week.
…
Oh bugger!
Feb. 9, 2012, 9:51 a.m. EST · CORRECTED
‘Greece fatigue’ sets in amid further delay
Party leaders yet to resolve call for deep pension cuts
By William L. Watts, MarketWatch
An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated the value of 130 billion euros in dollars. The story has been corrected.
FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — Financial markets on Thursday shrugged off yet another failure by Greek politicians to seal an austerity agreement that will pave the way for a second bailout, with strategists noting an element of “fatigue” among investors over the long-running political drama.
…
Due for a pullback?
There’s always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and stocks are always due for a pullback.
Well luckily, U.S. stocks are fully decoupled from the Baltic Dry Index, just as they were back in 2008,when the BDI hit its previous two-decades low.
BwaHahHahAHhAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
MacroScope
Analysis & Opinion Home
Baltic shipping index getting drier
By Pedro da Costa
February 10, 2012
An obscure gauge of shipping costs rose to prominence in geeky macro circles during the financial crisis because its plunge provided a telling lead on the economic crash that unfolded in 2008 and 2009. Now, the Baltic Dry Index has again taken a nosedive, falling to its lowest level in more than two decades.
…
Government Bailout Actually Hurt Housing Recovery: Zell
By: Jeff Cox
CNBC.com Senior Writer
Published: Wednesday, 8 Feb 2012 | 8:56 AM ET
Government intervention has prevented the real estate market from healing, with the commercial sector hit especially hard, investor Sam Zell said.
As sales languish and prices continue to fall, the head of Equity Group Investments and numerous other ventures pinned the blame on policies that refused to allow market forces to take hold.
“Rather than let the elements of the business world take care of the problems, we basically stopped the process of creating market clearing,” Zell said in a CNBC interview. “Had we allowed the market to clear without trying to stop reality…we would have a healthy housing market today.”
Since the financial crisis began in 2008, Washington lawmakers and President Barack Obama have launched a counterattack against the housing market’s collapse.
“It’s putting off facing up to reality,” Zell said in describing the efforts to halt foreclosures. “The longer we avoid clearing the longer we’re going to be living with this problem.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46308436 - 140k
FYI Sam Zell is nicknamed the “grave dancer,” and made his money by selling commercial real estate during bubbles and then buying after busts.
He was gearing up. Lots of people were. But with “extend and pretend,” there has been nothing to buy, and commercial real estate investment sales are dead.
“grave dancer,”
AWESOME!
So, if total financial wipeout and Greator Depression that last decades is inevitable, just get it started already?
“So, if total financial wipeout and Greator Depression that last decades is inevitable, just get it started already?”
Fine with me, I`ve got a 3 year head start.
Black Eyed Peas Lyrics » Let’s Get It Started
Get it started, get stupid
Don’t worry ’bout it people we’ll walk you through it
Step by step, like the infant new kid
Inch by inch, with the new solution
Transmit hits, with no delusion
The feeling’s irresistible and that’s how we move it, yo
Everybody
(Yeah)
Everybody
(Yeah)
Let’s get into it
(Yeah)
Get stupid
(C’mon)
Get it started
(C’mon)
Get it started
(Yeah)
Get it started
Let’s get it started, hah!
Let’s get it started in here
Let’s get it started, hah!
Let’s get it started in here
Government Bailout Actually Hurt Housing Recovery: Zell
It depends on how you define “Housing Recovery”
To most iof us here, it means housing prices drop to levels in line with historical price to income ratios.
For the PTB, it means housing remains unaffordable.
Jethro….
You posted a link to a shack yer lookin’ at. I commented on the EFS and you said it was CMU. Is there code for CMU in Fl? Any duro-wall or reinforcing required? Bond beams? Anyways it looked like Dryvit at first. Presumably the CMU is the grout rubbed or gets a skim coat of mortar? I can see why you like it being CMU.
Check out this dump in DE.
I posted this dump late yesterday.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3071890418-1513-Briarbush-Rd-Magnolia-DE-19962
Slick huh? Hip and gable, distressed brick, keystone arch and rowlocks at windows, real masonry chimney, etc. Marginally too large but manageable….. grossly overpriced for sure.
Aren’t you doing exactly what Oxide was doing when you accused her of being a realtor?
Posting a link and discussing construction materials? Really? REALLY?
Yeah, pretty much. Posting pictures of, and discussing houses you like that are for sale, and saying they’re still too expensive. Isn’t that what she was doing? What’s different?
I didn’t have the value construction expertise — I was just pricing the market. But I’m still not a re-al-TOR.
” Isn’t that what she was doing?”
No. She was rationalizing the inflated prices when I commented on them and discussed construction costs.
That house doesn’t strike me as particularly overpriced. $350-400k for 2700 sq ft brand new on slightly more than an acre sounds about right. Cut that acre down by 75% and we’ll talk overpriced.
Whats an acre of land worth in DE? $1000? 1500 max?
It’s overpriced in a big way.
New term: “political intelligence”.
House Passes Bill Banning Insider Trading by Members of Congress
New York Times
By ROBERT PEAR
Published: February 9, 2012
Democrats said that House Republican leaders had weakened the Senate-passed bill by stripping out a provision that would, for the first time, regulate firms that collect “political intelligence” for hedge funds, mutual funds and other investors. Under the Senate bill, such firms would have to register and report their activities, as lobbyists do.
The House added a provision to prohibit members of Congress, their aides and executive branch officials from receiving special access to initial public stock offerings because of their positions. Republicans said this provision was inspired by an investment in 2008 by Ms. Pelosi, who was then the speaker of the House.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/us/politics/house-passes-bill-banning-insider-trading-by-members-of-congress.html
oxide
I hope you forgive (but don’t forget) what ever happened to you here, and come back. You were a great contributor. Some of us miss you!
(Thanks for checking in. As long as you’re happy and healthy.)
An acre of land is worth more than $1000 where my parents live in BFE. I would say your average city acre is closer to $100k than $1k.
That house is right outside the capital of Deleware. And it’s not a Fox & Jacobs box house either.
We’re not talking about cities. We’re talking about Kent County DE where I lived for 2 years.
waiting, I left you a comment a couple days ago — when you posted about your husband’s eye problems to mikeinbend. It was advice/lecture, so I won’t repeat it. Once was enough.
And I meant not to sound judgemental. I just have bought a house “just for us”; and health care premiums jeapordize that chance for us to keep it “just for us”.
When I asked how you could be sure that medical costs would not jeapordize you losing your house; you called me brutal. I actually did not mean them in a brutal way.
I want a paid off house; just for us, and have one. Then when I run out of money for medical care(don’t have saved up reserves for out of pocket or even to keep up), I wanna keep it, too! But I probably don’t have near as much saved up as you.
How much money does one need to have a untouchable home and also enough to pay for two “rest of life” medical bills out of pocket? It seems like it could get spendy, I thought you would interpret my comments differently, I guess. Do tell, and I will aspire to save that much before I drop my insurance, cuz not having insurance makes me fear losing my house more than having it. And you feel differently; and have bravely scorned the idea of carrying health insurance and are planning on paying for it all with cash. I would think that would be 10x the cost of a home to feel comfy that noone would come take it or sue one for it. But hey, I am a “system gamer”.
But I would give up my house I paid cash for “just for us” if I ran out of money and owed creditors due to health expenses, would you be so gracious? (I would not do so graciously but because I would have to, I assume, or heck I am dropping my insurance too, if they cant take my house when I become otherwise insolvent)
1513 Briarbush Road, Magnolia DE 19962
Is a nice looking house, that`s a lot of cabage though. Then again I don`t know what a normal or around here mid 90`s price is there.
Anyway you asked if there was a code for CMU in Fl. What I call CBS Concrete Block Stucco (I may be wrong with the terminology). Concrete blocks are stacked with mortar on rebar embedded in slab with concrete columns and tie beams and Lintels over windows and doors. Set the trusses on the beam, huricane strap the sh#t out of them to the beam. Scratch coat and finish coat of stucco on the exterior and furring or a 1 5/8 chase wall on the interior. Usually the insulation was foil backed papaer or Tuff R on the exterior walls but in the last few years they have started spaying that polyurethane foam insulation. What I used to call Great Stuff that came in a can for filling holes in exterior walls. Thaey spray that sh#t on the bottom of the plywood roof sheating and don`t put in any Batt insulation, and in the damn block or a chase wall. I have talked to some owners with big houses and they say their electric bills are pretty damn low whaen they have the whole 9 yards done with that stuff. I am sure the one I am looking at has foil backed. Anyway that`s the best I acn do on CBS down here, there is some tilt up and even less of that foam block that gets concrete pumped in.
Uh oh, I guess I’m in trouble too.
For what it’s worth, I like when people post housing from different areas. I realize there is potential for abuse like getting some extra publicity for properties. I like understanding what’s going on because what has happened in those areas (huge bubble price run-ups and for some stand still markets) is not happening here. To see actual property photos w/their histories really does tell a story in a way that can’t be communicated w/mere descriptions.
Now having said that, my postings are different. They don’t represent the full inventory of what is going on in the general area. They don’t even represent what I’m looking at myself. They represent my fascination with what people were building here while so many outside and inside this area think of our area as depressed.
There obviously are many areas locally where that is the case but there are also pockets and locations where there has been a great churn of residents and incoming people have come not only from all over the country but from all over the world. They are well educated. They have extensive resumes. They are often well connected. They bring with them attitudes and expectations of where they’ve come from.
Several of the people I’ve known who bought what to me was over the top housing mentioned they did it because this was an area where they could afford what in their previous areas only the truly wealthy could afford. In other words they went a little crazy. Yeah, I hear that one again and again. Still it fascinates me. Even after we finally bite, I’m sure I’ll always watch whats going on in real estate. It really has been more entertaining than anything anyone could make up.
I like when people post housing from different areas.
I do too. And if it’s not all houses listed with the same realtor or agency, then it’s pretty clearly not someone out drumming up business.
That’s why I thought the charge was unfair in the first place, and now ironically RAL is posting houses for sale, too. Although he says it’s different somehow, but I don’t see how.
I like when people post housing from different areas.
I thought that’s what the Bits Bucket was for to begin with.
“and now ironically RAL is posting houses for sale, too. Although he says it’s different somehow, but I don’t see how.”
Then go back and read the exchange. The issue wasn’t “posting houses for sale” then but you seem to be making it your issue.
The issue wasn’t “posting houses for sale” then but you seem to be making it your issue.
I was never quite clear what the heck the issue was, but it seemed to involve her posting houses that were for sale. IIRC her point was that she could buy the houses (PITI and all) she was showing for the same as her rent, which seems a pretty reasonable point. She wasn’t telling everyone to go buy a house, the time is right, don’t miss the boat, and all that realtor jazz.
Anyway, I think you owe her an apology, and then we can all have a group hug.
“I was never quite clear what the heck the issue was,”
And still aren’t. And I’m not sure why you’re getting in the middle of it.
I already kissy-kissed and made up and I’m not doing it again.
Isn’t there formaldehyde gassing off from that Great Stuff spray?
I gave up on worrying about anything like that a long time ago. Last November we did a remodel in a condo on Worth Ave. on Palm Beach. We had done a remodel in the same building in 2001. I asked the GC if he wanted us to scrape the popcorn off the ceilings and slick them out like we had done before. He said no, he needed to hire an asbestos removal Co. to take it out because they had found asbestos in the popcorn ceiling in one of the units in the building. I asked …what about the unit we did in 2001? He laughed and said… There was no asbestos in that one.
PS
I
Natch. When you and I were kids, asbestos wasn’t dangerous. It only got so later.
The house I grew up in had lead pipe in the water lines. I’m pretty sure the water fountain at school did too.
They do wear suits and masks when they are spraying that sh#t and I know of 2 vehicles that they have had to pay for a paint jobs when their lines broke. So when it`s liquid I`m sure it`s not healthy.
You can buy Great Stuff in cans at your nearest hardware store.
Thing to watch out for is that the stuff foams like crazy. As in, you just created the monster blob from Hades.
There are low-foam varieties used for window and door applications. I recommend them.
Jeth….. From the pictures I certainly can’t tell there is CMU behind the stucco. They did nice job. Sweet wall system.
What you call stucco is Dryvit EFS and they put it over wood studded walls as an exterior finish system for stuff like motels, offices, small strips etc. This type of wall system is not durable. I see alot of houses with Dryvit/stucco in the south but I can never tell if their is CMU or wood behind it.
Most of my projects are single wythe wall systems using 12″ split face CMU with DuroWall horizontal reinforcing(in the mort joint) with bondbeam and grouted vertical reinforcing in the cells. They are robust, structural walls and overkill for a single story but the same idea as the house you’re looking at. Perlite insulation sucks and we’re finally getting way from it and going with the injectable foam in the cells.
Yeah that dump in DE is way overpriced but it’s has some really nice lines to it.
Most of my projects are single wythe wall systems using 12″ split face CMU with DuroWall horizontal reinforcing(in the mort joint) with bondbeam and grouted vertical reinforcing in the cells.
RAL, do you know anything about how well such walls perform in earthquakes?
I’ve always been attracted to the CMU dry-stacked with surface-bonding and grouted vertical cells with rebar (not sure on the spacing required for the verticals).
Ideally I’d like to build one of those one day. Insulation on the outside would be preferable so as to have a high exposed thermal-mass on the inside for low temperature swings.
p.s. I’d shy away from the cr@p modern-stuccos, and go with the long-lived old-fashioned concrete-based stuff.
I’m not up to speed on seismic zones but this wall system is our master specification used all over the northeast, midatlantic and new england. You might look up what seismic zone you want to build in and make the comparision to my area.
I’ve never heard of dry stacking CMU’s but there might be a wall system out there. I would think you’d have to have vert reinforcing in every cell, thus you’d have to grout fill every cell.
Or where you talking about a stacked bond wall?
Anyways, vert reinforcing is typically every 24″ for perimeter and 32″ for interior partitions.
Or where you talking about a stacked bond wall?
Nope, definitely was referring to surface-bonding. You can dry-stack using a normal running bond, then trowel the surface with a stucco that incorporates fiberglass particles. Those give the surface rigidity. For some reason this technique appeals to me more than mortar between the blocks. It seems simple enough to lay by myself.
Plus the mortar would never get crumbly—I used to own an old brick house and the mortar was like powder. The whole place needed to be tuck-pointed.
No trees? No thanks.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=201723
As I predicted, the tough-talking state AGs folded like cheap suits and signed off on bankster fraudclosure. RIP, rule of law.
“Audit-the-Ferderal-Re$erveInc.-SCOTU$-Person!”: “Pending”
“Audit-the-Pentagon!”: “Coming Soon!”
“Linda-the-Lavishly-Living-Lunch-Lady”: “standing on the gallow$”
TrueAngry! = “Prioritized”
Would you want a FedGov drone circling over your house for the next few decades?
who-is-president-matters-much-less-than-we-think-freakonomics-stephen-dubne
http://screen.yahoo.com/who-is-president-matters-much-less-than-we-think-freakonomics-stephen-dubner-28209729.html
Especially when it’s a Wall Street owned Republicrat Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum, with a docile and stupid electorate to ensure it stays that way.
Grr! My iPad does not do videos well. But I agree. I much prefer a democrat President and Republican Congress than the other way around. If it was not for Republican Ron Paul or Libertarian Gary Johnson I would vote for Obama.
My clunky netbook running Linux does just fine with the videos.
Most videos are based on Flash which uses the Sorenson compression algorithm.
Apple doesn’t do Flash.
All hail the coming of HTML5, the savior that will liberate us from Flash!
Just kidding. But that’s the sort of hype that I’ve been hearing from the HTML5 promoters.
HTML5 is neither finalized nor efficient as it currency stand.
In fact, it’s bloated as hell.
HTML5 is neither finalized nor efficient as it currency stand.
In fact, it’s bloated as hell.
Which is why Yours Truly is just a tad skeptical of all the HTML5 hype.
The squad correctly called El Paso County for Santorum, 5168 votes versus Romney’s 3378. The Santorum also carried 44 of Colorado’s 64 counties.
Let Freedom Ring!
Hardly a surprise. Colo Springs is Colorado’s Fundy Central.
What is interesting is that he carried so many other counties. One of the things I noticed when we moved here from SoCal was the relative absence of Megachurches, at least when compared to SoCal. We only have one in our little burg (two if you count the Catholic Parish). If our town were in SoCal there would be at least 3 of them.
Home of Ted Haggard, because nothing says family values like gay escorts and crystal meth
Fundies used to hate Catholics.
They still do.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
or
Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Not as much as they used to. I attended a funeral Mass a week ago in North Carolina. There were Fundies present. I doubt you would find one at a Mormon funeral (I’m not sure if those are even open to non-Mormons)
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
FWIW, the RCC doesn’t see the LDS as the “enemy” the way the Fundies do. I suppose it comes from centuries of watching new denominations rise and fall. I suspect that someday the LDS will be a footnote in ecclesial history, much like Gnosticism, Arianism, Marcionism, Sabellianism, Montanism, etc.
Mormon funerals are pretty much the same as everybody else’s except maybe a little less weeping and wailing. Usually in the meetinghouse and open to the public.
For them to become a footnote will require them to first stop growing. There is a bit of similarity between RCC and LDS because they both believe in authority and structure.
In the 3rd century the Arians were as numerous as the Catholics, today they are a footnote in history.
The Mormons like to blow their horn claiming massive growth, but the truth is that they are a relatively tiny group. There are more Catholics in Mexico City than Mormons in the entire world. I almost feel sorry for the missionary kids, especially those that knock on doors in the US. I know a guy who did his mission in Italy. He bagged ZERO converts. He said that he had a good time nonetheless and he has great affection for the Italian people. He said the being invited to stay for dinner (after being declined for Church info) was commonplace.
He said the being invited to stay for dinner (after being declined for Church info) was commonplace.
Wow, that is a WAY friendlier reception than they get here in the U.S.!
He speaks to the effect the President can have on the economy. And I would agree with him on that. There are large forces that the President has no control over that often have a bigger impact (wars, foreign debt crises, demographics, Congress). And some of the impact that a President has will not take effect for months or years after a policy is implemented.
So the Republicans have to argue that the improvement in the economy from the early days of the Obama presidency would have been larger if they had been elected.
If McCain had won, we would not have seen Obamacare. Would the Tea Party have had any influence on the 2010 congressional elections? We probably would have avoided the budget fight last summer, even if it was still dominated by Democrats. Would state legislatures have swung so far to the right (on the coattails of the Tea Party congressional election) and what impact would that have had on redistricting in states like Texas? Would Scott Walker and Mitch Daniels and Kasich have been elected?
Perhaps the Republicans should be thankful Obama was elected.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/burj-khalifa-property-prices-fall-aed2-100-per-square-foot-444434.html
Another housing bubble crashing to earth.
Sitting in Starbucks again in New Tampa. A different local one than yesterday. In both places this time of morning the most vocal conversations seem to come from the starry eyed RE types. Talking about transactions.
Forget it! RE is deader than a doornail. We boomers are downsizing (I did so sixteen years ago in my 30s) and the older set are retiring and in ten or fifteen years will kick the bucket.
TOO MUCH SUPPLY! Maybe in two generations prices will recover to ‘05 levels.
RE is deader than a doornail. We boomers are downsizing
Isn’t that contradictory? Or are the boomers just shutting off rooms in their houses?
The boomers still have a mortgage Bill, unlike you. It’s time to retire and the house was supposed to make them rich. Sucks that they can’t sell just now “in this market”. The banks keep bringing on these “foreclosures”. Won’t be a real market until they stop doing that.
The earlier boomers aren’t moving south because they can’t get as much for their house right now as they’d planned and the later boomers, us 50 somethings, aren’t getting transferred or taking new out of area jobs like we used to.
I get the feeling everyone is just waiting for the next move.
All I see is overpriced inventory. The fear of job loss seems to have passed locally and the only time I see people ready to negotiate is if it’s an estate sale or if there is a divorce and even then that price can get sticky because now they gotta pay for 2 households when the sale is done and not just one new one. Most price reductions take place in the $250k and under inventory.
I’m seeing a new twist to the “waiting for the next move” scenario.
Mom lives in a older (late 60s/early 70s) condo development. The HOA prohibits renting out the units, so until fairly recently, it has been pretty popular with single people/50 somethings who want to own, and don’t want to deal with all of the “diversity” that rentals can sometimes bring. Most of the people who have been here five years or longer are making higher payments to the HOA, than they are on the mortgage.
Several residents have passed away in the past 18 months or so. At the same time, prices have dropped at/below 1999-2000 prices. They aren’t upside down, but nobody wants to “give Mom’s place away”.
So they sit, vacant, and the kids are making the payments (if the place still has a mortgage) waiting for the market to “recover”……..recovery meaning 2007-2008 prices. Two places next door to my mom have been vacant for at least 18 months.
Won’t surprise me if eventually someone buys out the brothers/sisters, moves into the condo, and walks from their current mortgage, if they ever get significantly upside down on their current place.
“Significantly” around here means $20-50K. A rounding error compared to California, but out here in Red-State/Kochtopus-loving/Flyoverland, $15 an hour Lucky Duckys are considered “upper-middle-class Americans”, $20-50K is a LOT.
Several residents have passed away in the past 18 months or so. At the same time, prices have dropped at/below 1999-2000 prices. They aren’t upside down, but nobody wants to “give Mom’s place away”.
If the kids are out of state, don’t count on their wanting to keep the place going forever. More than a few of them will probably want to sell the condo for what they can get, then move on with their lives.
I’ve noticed the same thing, Bill.
When I’m out in public, I can’t help overhearing the real estate people who TALK LIKE THIS. Doesn’t matter if they’re on cell phones or speaking face to face. THEY’RE LOUD.
PROJECTING CONFIDENCE!
Yeah, this is the point I’m making. I was wondering where these bozos find confidence? Perhaps they talk loud to pretend a boom is underway in order for passersby to be impressed. But I doubt it. Most fence sitters won’t take the bait and those who were burned the last few years don’t have enough flammable stuff left to burn.
Perhaps they talk loud to pretend a boom is underway in order for passersby to be impressed.
Me? I scrutinize them closely to see if they might be hard of hearing. But that only takes a minute.
After I’m satisfied that they have normal hearing, I conclude that they’re loudmouthed show-offs. And I make a mental note to avoid them in the future.
My Realtor says that now is the time to buy Splenda.
Here’s one for the Eddietards from the WSJ today, Forecast: Drops in Home Values Less Severe in ‘12, but which shows Atlanta at the bottom of the list of metros dropping 8.5%this year.
B-b-but I thought Applebee’s had a 45 minute wait for a table? Loosers
Feb. 9, 2012, 10:01 a.m. EST
Banks, states reach $26 billion settlement
Deal is expected to provide assistance to over 1 million homeowners
By Ronald D. Orol, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — After more than a year of negotiations, the biggest banks, states and federal authorities on Thursday announced the largest housing settlement ever — for more than $26 billion — over foreclosure practices that is expected to offer relief to more than one million U.S. homeowners.
State attorneys-general and federal officials have been in discussions for more than a year with banks over the “robo-signing” crisis - the practice of assigning bank employees to rapidly approve numerous foreclosures with only cursory glances at the glut of paperwork to determine if all the documents are in order.
The settlement is with five big banks: Bank of America Corp., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Citigroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co., and Ally Financial Inc., the company formerly known as GMAC.
…
Holder is making the BIG 25 billion plan announcement. He said there is money for victim borrowers. BRILLIANT! VBs. Save the VBs! Use the guns that are left over from Fast And Furious if you have to but save the VBs.
I`d be happy if they put Angelo Mozillo and one bailed out bank exec from each of the Big banks in jail and made the VBs pay some rent.
Geez, Eric, your boss extracted $20 billion out of single company for one oil spill that lasted a couple months. Meanwhile, five banks conduct 5 years of abuse and all you can muster is a measly $25 billion?
Lame-o.
And my state gets a big chunk of that victim cheese.
Florida gets $8.4 billion of $26 billion foreclosure agreement
by Kim Miller
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said this morning a $26 billion nationwide foreclosure-related settlement was reached following “disturbing practices,” found at the country’s largest banks.
Some details of the settlement were released this morning at a 10 a.m. press conference, with individual states expected to reveal their take later today.
“Our investigations revealed disturbing practices, servicers who pushed borrowers into foreclosure even though federal regulations required them to try other foreclosure alternatives first,” Holder said this morning. “This fueled the downward spiral of our economy and communities nationwide.”
The current breakdown is $17 billion directed to underwater homeowners for principal reductions, $5 billion in cash to states, $3 billion for refinance programs and a $1 billion settlement reached with an individual servicer for a claim that will go to the Federal Housing Finance Agency.
The negotiations went well into the night Wednesday and even early Thursday morning it was unclear if all of the states had signed onto the agreement. Oklahoma was the lone holdout as of 11 a.m.
At 10 p.m. Wednesday, Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was a main negotiator of the settlement, said she believed they had found accord on a deal that “provides Floridians with much-needed relief and reforms the mortgage-servicing industry.”
Florida’s share of the total monetary benefits under the settlement is approximately $8.4 billion.
It breaks down as follows:
* Florida borrowers will receive an estimated $7.6 billion in benefits from loan modifications, including principal reduction and other debt relief.
* About $170 million will be available for cash payments to Florida borrowers who lost their home to foreclosure from Jan. 1, 2008 through Dec. 31, 2011 and suffered servicing abuse.
* The value of refinanced loans to Florida’s underwater borrowers would be an estimated $309 million.
* The state will receive a direct payment of $350 million.
“This settlement will provide substantial relief to struggling Florida homeowners, and ensures that our state gets its fair share of the relief being provided nationally,” Bondi said this morning. “This agreement holds banks accountable and puts in place ne protections for homeowners in the form of strict mortgage servicing standards.”
For more information go to http://www.nationalforeclosuresettlement.com.
Banks involved in the settlement include Ally/GMAC, Bank of America, Citi, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans are not covered by the agreement.
Federal officials hope to get another nine mortgage servicers to sign onto the agreement, which could raise the monetary relief to $45 billion nationwide.
Attorney General Eric Holder, Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan, and Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller stressed this morning that the large settlement focused only on making amends for robo-signing issues and mortgage servicing violations.
And officials acknowledged that cash awards to homeowners already foreclosed upon would be minimal, likely only between $1,500 and $2,000 depending on how many people apply for the money.
Florida gets $8.4 billion of $26 billion foreclosure agreement
by Kim Miller
12 Responses (none of them mine)
3
mike Says:
February 9th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Attention all deadbeats…DO NOT pay your mortgage….u r crazy….can live for yrs..we live in a deadbeat society..50% of americans get some type of government handout…..dont pay!!!
keep spending..dont save….South Fl is the deadbeat capital…
look at your neighbors..that is how they do it…defaults,judgements…who cares! Keep spending!
4
area realtor Says:
February 9th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Attention all foreclosure revenue recipients, you’ll want to use that money as a down payment on closing costs and real estate commission and buy a home this month. Home prices are back on the rise, and you can easily make 10 times the money that was just given to you if you put your trust in a professional realtor. The time to act is now. There has never been a better investment that a home. As this settlement proves, even if you were foreclosed on, you’re still coming out ahead over renting. Trust a realtor. She’ll set you in the right direction.
8
Ronnie Says:
February 9th, 2012 at 11:32 am
“…likely only between $1,500 and $2,000 depending on how many people apply for the money.”
Why do WE have to apply for the money. Banks should be locating us and giving it to us, along with an apology for all of the pain and suffering they have put us through during the foreclosure process. Now we have to fill out endless paperwork and get it over the banks and hope they actually do what they promise. This is almost more trouble than it’s worth. Greedy bankers are always finding ways to keep your money from getting into your pocket. Florida residents are the most mistreated of all, according to statistics, because we are the least likely to tolerate the circles they make us run in to get some of our share.
10
Screwed Says:
February 9th, 2012 at 11:47 am
But, I PAY my mortgage, I don’t get it, why do I have to pay for people who agreed to pay and then didn’t? It doesn’t really matter what your house is worth, you PROMISED to pay the bank back ! I only borrowed what I could afford to borrow, paid it back, and I just don’t understand. Its not like banks FORCED anyone to take out a mortgage. A mortgage is a LOAN. You pay back what you BORROW. That’s what you SIGNED.
11
Michelle Says:
February 9th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Ok…Let’s see how this all shakes down. I am one of those individuals who purchased my condo, have lived in and paid my mortgage, taxes and maintenance fees for over 6 years all along knowing and fretting about the declining property values. I’m sure there will be some sort of catch as to once again help those neighbors of mine who have not paid a mortgage or anything else in 4 plus years and live as I do. It will be interesting to just see how difficult the process will be to get my principal reduction. I’m learning that it does not pay to fulfill your obligations in our country. Good luck to me!
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/ - 91k -
Jobless Decline Masks Drop in U.S. Labor Force
By Alex Kowalski - Feb 8, 2012 4:32 PM ET
The unemployment rate’s unexpected drop to a three-year low has overshadowed a less-positive labor- market development: fewer Americans are looking for work.
Last week’s Labor Department announcement that the jobless rate fell to 8.3 percent in January sent stocks and bond yields higher. The same report showed the share of working-age people in the labor force had declined to the lowest level in 29 years.
The so-called participation rate was cited by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke yesterday to support his assessment that the rate of unemployment obscures vulnerabilities in the job market.
Missing Workers
The Labor Department last week boosted the count of the U.S. working-age population by 1.51 million people based on findings from the 2010 Census. Of those, 1.25 million, or 83 percent, weren’t in the workforce, the data showed.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-08/jobless-decline-masks-drop-in-u-s-labor-force-as-fewer-seek-work-economy.html - 192k -
The unemployment rate’s unexpected drop to a three-year low has overshadowed a less-positive labor- market development: fewer Americans are looking for work.
Yeah, but you should see them on LinkedIn, Google+, Facebook, and Twitter. They’re posting like crazy!
Social media: It fills up the days.
Empty calories for the mind. (I can’t take credit for that quip)
I can’t either. But I’ll be happy to recycle this old quip: CB radio with keyboards.
But it’s different here.
They’re all too busy buying steak and lobster on their EBT cards to look for jobs. It’s true cuz Drudge linked to it.
…and shinin’ the chrome on those 20″ rims on their Escalades.
Chrome is so last year. Now it’s black rims. Probably cheaper to make but I bet they cost more than chrome.
Are the spinning rims considered “last year”? I thought those were the most stupid looking things ever.
I wonder how many of those “missing workers” self deported themselves?
Here in Arizona, the answer is “quite a few.” You can now find plenty of landscaping crews where everyone is American.
Yeah, with the housing bust up here, many Mexicans (etc.) headed back home. We actually closed one of our stores that catered to this demographic due (primarily) to the huge drop-off in the latino customer base.
As mentioned before, my brother (Border Patrol agent) says that the border crossers around San Diego have dropped significantly. 40% of the guys they are catching already have US warrants out on them (typically Domestic Violence or DUI charges).
The crossers are mostly smuggling something, or have been in the States for a while, went on vacation in Mexico, and are trying to get back to work.
“I wonder how many of those “missing workers” self deported themselves?”
Quite a few around here.
i should have never went to college 30 years ago,a yellow hard hat would have been a better financial move….los angeles dwp
Thanks to Bloomberg News reporters Christopher Palmieri and Rodney Yap, we have documentation today of just how outrageous the disparity is between DWP salaries and the salaries of other city workers for the same jobs and how inflated those city salaries are to what people are paid in the private sector who don’t get to retire at 55 with 75 percent of their highest pay as pensions.
“(The DWP) had the highest-paid public employees in the city, earning on average 40 percent more than other municipal workers, even those with identical job titles,” they reported..
“The utility’s 10,782 employees earned an average of $96,805 annually in 2010, the most recent year for which data was available, according to compensation statistics provided by state Controller John Chiang. The city’s 44,781 other employees took home $68,822 on average.
“From nurses to prison guards, California public employees earn more than their counterparts in other states — even as it has grappled with budget deficits that forced layoffs of teachers and cut services for children and the elderly. In Los Angeles, water and power workers are paid more than their city counterparts because of the political clout of their union, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
“From nurses to prison guards, California public employees earn more……”
Change “California public employees” to “all public and private employees”. Fixed.
Seems like the most bitching about “overpaid public employees” is coming from the places that had overpriced real estate.
Overpaid public employees is a symptom, not a cause. I’ll bet all of them will be more than happy to take a pay cut back to 1995 wages, as soon as house, transportation and food prices are also cut back to 1995 levels.
Exactly, They’re not overpaid. Their wages have merely kept up with real inflation and nobody else’s has.
No, turkey, in LA, they’re ridiculously overpaid for what they do– and don’t do.
A fair number of LA Country firefighters commute from AZ and Northern CA– in their private planes.
“i should have never went to college 30 years ago”
Let me guess — not an English major.
(Sorry - pet peeve of mine
).
Thank you, Happy.
More or less annoying than, “If I would have known then I would have…”?
In Los Angeles, water and power workers are paid more than their city counterparts because of the political clout of their union, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
Their power comes from the threat of a shutdown. When the air traffic controllers walkout the airplanes are grounded, but if the electricity is shutdown everything grinds to an immediate halt.
I posted this yesterday but these are good links to have in order to understand why the government does what it does:
Political contributions to the government:
2011-2012:
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php
Since 1989:
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
Such a tangled web these bail-outs weave.
Ally said to be Shopping Mortgage Unit
Feb 8 2012, 1:58PM
One of the financial institutions that are party to the reported settlement agreement with the attorneys general of the majority of the states is reportedly on the auction block. According to Bloomberg News, Ally Financial is talking with private equity firms about selling its mortgage unit, Residential Capital LCC, through a pre-package bankruptcy.
Any sale of the company would be complicated by its recent financial history. The company was founded as General Motors Acceptance Corporation (GMAC) in 1919 by General Motors as an intermediary to provide financing for the purchase of its autos. Over the years it expanded into other types of lending and into real estate brokerage and adopted the acronym as its brand name.
GMAC was hard hit by the housing crash and was one of the beneficiaries of Toxic Asset Relief Funds (TARP). In addition to the company’s potential liabilities - a share of a reported $25 billion to be paid to the states in the above referenced settlement deal represents merely one of the many suits arising out of the company’s role in the financial crisis - the U.S. Treasury has a large stake in the parent company. According to the company’s website, the Treasury owns 73.8 percent; other large stakeholders at less than 10 percent each are GM Trust, Cerberus and affiliates, and third party investors. In 2010, reportedly to distance the financial arm from the auto company, its name was changed to Ally.
The company reported a fourth quarter loss on a $270 million charge to cover expected penalties from regulators.
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/02082012_ally_fincl_tarp_recipients.asp
“i should have never went to college…”
I’d ask for your money back.
I went to college with a partner at GS (his name was featured on the Colbert Report). He makes a whole lot more than 50 of those workers combined and stole it from you. Rather than worry about somebody making 90K for doing (at least some) actual work that helps our infrastructure, I’d worry about the guy making 10M for doing work that destroys our infrastructure. But that’s just me.
Abusive co-dependency is never recognized by the victim.
Gotta focus the hate. And keep it focused on the union goons and Lucky Duckies who are destroying this country. Need more tax cuts for the job creator Masters Of The Universe cus they’re doing God’s work.
Let Freedom Ring!
I didn’t get no good education when I went to college either.
“neither” Liz, “neither”.
C’mon! We all know very well that “soft skills” such as proper grammar are considered worthless in today’s job market. I even had a biz school teacher tell me one that being too proper could be bad for your career.
Sad but true.
Your kidin!
He said that when writing memos and reports that it was best to stick to simple, if imprecise, language. That fancy words could annoy the bosses.
He said that when writing memos and reports that it was best to stick to simple, if imprecise, language. That fancy words could annoy the bosses.
And to think that all of that vocabulary word memorization for the SAT was in vain.
Proper grammer and correct spellin is for loosers.
STEM is where the moneys at.
College was the best six months of my life.
Neuromance
Thank you for the reintroduction to that website.
On face value, I believe the “by industry stats” to favor
my former GOP. I’m glad I woke my arse up.
Sign of changing times in AZ: Last night, MIT linguist and social critic Noam Chomsky spoke at the University of Arizona’s Centennial Hall. This is the largest lecture hall/performing arts venue on the UA campus. It seats 2,500.
Being a sucker for free lectures offered by the UA, I went. Not that I’m a huge fan of Chomsky, but I was curious.
Well, when I rolled my bike into my favorite near-Centennial Hall rack, I noticed that there was a huge line over there. It stretched for blocks.
I walked and walked and walked until I finally found the end of the line. When I found it, I announced to everyone around me, “Looks like Obama’s back in town.”
The context for that quip was his January 12, 2011 speech at the UA. People lined up starting 20 hours before he actually said a word.
Well, Centennial Hall filled up right-quick, and I was part of the overflow group that was herded into another lecture hall. All told, about 3,500 people heard this lecture. And some waited in line for as long as four hours.
Oh, when Gabby Giffords’ husband, Mark Kelly, spoke at Centennial late last year, the house was only half filled. Same thing happened during the January 8, 2012 reminiscences. Centennial wasn’t any near full.
Video clip of Jim Cramer raving about how great Diamond Foods is:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000024376
Turns out accounting fraud is their secret recipe. Jim just loves the taste of steaming dog turds.
Accounting Fraud: The breakfast, lunch, and dinner of champions.
Tech Ticker
A Drop in the Bucket
Now, $26 billion is a lot of money but it’s a drop in the bucket compared with the trillions of dollars of household wealth that’s been lost since the bursting of the credit bubble in 2008. Furthermore, $2,000 is a small price to pay to homeowners who lost their homes in illegal foreclosures. The $20,000 mortgage modification is great, except the average deficit for underwater mortgages in America is $50,000.
In addition, the $20 billion isn’t coming out of the banks’ pockets; it’s coming from investors and, ultimately, taxpayers.
“The mortgage principal write-downs are guaranteed to come almost entirely from securitized loans, which means from investors, which in turn means taxpayers via Fannie and Freddie, pension funds, insurers, and 401 (k)s,” writes Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism. “That $20 billion actually makes bank second liens sounder, so this deal is a stealth bailout that strengthens bank balance sheets at the expense of the broader public.” (See: Obama’s Refi Plan Is Another Bank Bailout, Stockman Says: “The Worst Kind of Crony Socialism”)
I think this will be remembered as the Komen moment for the banks. There aren’t too many people who are happy with this deal. Which I don’t think is anywhere near “done.”
Krugman gets a beatdown from a Columbia University professor.
Sachs Says Krugman Is ‘Crude Keynesian’
Bloomberg
By Alex Kowalski and Tom Keene - Feb 9, 2012 3:14 PM ET
On Feb. 6, Krugman, a professor at Princeton University and a New York Times columnist, wrote in his “Economics and Politics” blog that the U.S. economy was in a depression because an excess supply of savings prevented full employment. Government spending would help “reduce that incipient surplus,” he wrote.
“Paul has a powerful bully pulpit in his New York Times column, and he’s been on one theme for three years,” Sachs said. Krugman has “under-emphasized the risks of growing debt, he’s over-asserted what we really know about the effects of these policies and he has underestimated the long-term need for public-sector change and reform,” Sachs said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-09/columbia-s-sachs-says-krugman-is-crude-keynesian-on-spending-tom-keene.html
Question for the brain trust…
Still looking for a new rental house. Doing research on the current one that’s piqued my interest. Owner paid $350k in 2005. Current tax appraisal is $292k. House is nicely redone - I’ve assumed they did the work, but should ask. That’s a decent hair-cut even without considering whatever they’ve put into it.
Any suggestions on how to ask why they’re moving out to get a feel for whether they’re going to lose the house/are giving up on it?
I would ask them if they’re moving to a new job. Or something equally innocuous.
Oh, did I mention that v2.0 of your HBB Joshua Tree Extension is the bee’s knees? That it rocks the house?
Oh, did I mention that v2.0 of your HBB Joshua Tree Extension is the bee’s knees? That it rocks the house?
You didn’t, but thank you. You should get 2.0.1 if you want to be cool like the rest of us
Oh, and I figured I’d ask them why they were moving (since they’re staying in same town) and go from there. Didn’t know if there was a better approach, though. Given that they want to see a pay stub or W2 to verify income, I think it’s fair for me to probe a bit into their situation.
Given that they want to see a pay stub or W2 to verify income, I think it’s fair for me to probe a bit into their situation.
I asked my current LL point-blank what his mortgage situation was like on his rental. I was pleased to learn that he didn’t have one.
He seemed to understand me asking about it, though; I mentioned that I had heard stories of people renting out properties that then fell behind on their payments.
When he asked for my ID, I asked to see his as well. I’ve also heard tales of people renting out properties that they don’t actually own, and disappearing with deposits. Public records confirmed that he owned it.
drummin, I would tend to avoid peak-year purchasers, if only because they are more likely to want to unload the property by sale if/when the market doesn’t turn around like they expect it to. They are also at higher risk of turning into a walk-away.
My ideal LL was one with a paid-off property who has owned it through previous ups and downs. Hard to find but worth the effort!
drummin, I would tend to avoid peak-year purchasers, if only because they are more likely to want to unload the property by sale if/when the market doesn’t turn around like they expect it to. They are also at higher risk of turning into a walk-away.
I’m right there with you, but the rental situation these days is rough/tight. Find me a 2-3 bedroom one-story house with fenced yard on the east side that’s in good shape for a reasonable price. 2000sq ft or less and allows dogs. It’s not easy. I have to be out of my current place at the end of March. In about a month of looking I’ve found 2 that have met my criteria and still would require some compromises.
I’d love to find a long-term owner with a paid off house, but if I look for that in addition to the list above, I’m going to end up in a cardboard box come 4/1.
actually, forget the “reasonable price” element even. I’m willing to pay more to get what I want, but even ignoring the cost it’s hard to find.
drummin why not do the opposite???
Post ads on CL or even in the local newspaper looking for a landlord with a paid off mortage who accepts 2 dogs and you have sterling credit…..and see if anyone responds.
Precisely. The local throwaway is the best bet. Also look in local grocery and convenience stores, churches, coffee shops for notices on community bulletin boards. In your ad be sure to mention also that you’re a quiet professional who’s “security-minded.”
Good luck!
In your ad be sure to mention also that you’re a quiet professional who’s “security-minded.”
Is that what you call it when I sleep with a loaded 12-gauge under the bed and a .357 in the night stand?
Interesting thought about posting an ad. I just kinda figured everyone posts on craigslist….is that not the case?
Sorry I haven’t been able to post much in the last couple days. I have had to do 5 days of work in 4 because I’m off tomorrow. I’m heading out of town for a weekend in celebration of me turning 45, with my daughter that just turned 21, in celebration of our birthdays.
Anyway, next week, I think I’m going to focus on a new issue.
I’m going to be seeing if I can get people to talk about their desired outcomes from this mess called the US Economy.
Like, fairness. Well, fairness was tossed under the bus 4 years ago. People took out these insurance policies… well, they weren’t called insurance policies because then there would have had to have been money sitting around to pay in the even of a loss. The were called derivatives, and they worked just like insurance, paying in the even of a default, except there wasn’t actually any money to pay in the event of default…
Anyway, there were all these derivatives that people bought from people that they knew could not pay. When the bet went bad, and the people that sold the derivatives could not pay, the only fair thing would have been for the people who bought them to not get paid.
Of course, that would have triggered a cascade default into Greater Depression. It was decided that avoiding a Greater Depression was more important that fairness, so, we don’t need no stinking fairness.
Now, we all want people that we’re stupid for buying at the top of the housing market to pay for their stupidity. But, what if the PTB have decided that too is the path to Greater Depression.
Heck, for 99% of the planet, the USA going into Greater Depression and truly becoming a 3rd world nation with $2-3 an hour wage would be the “only fair thing”.
I hear people attacking things like “Welfare”. I’m not sure what Welfare is. Unemployment, food stamps, disability, medicaid, medicare, Social Security? Section 8 housing. Or just he $17B TANF? If we cut off welfare money, then what? We increase minimum wage? Massive deflation? Demand crashing? Massive cascade default into depression?
10 million people may have committed some form of fraud related to the housing bubble. Current USA prison population is 1.5 million. So, 7-8x as many people in jail for a few years? Trillions spent trying to prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt?
End the federal deficits? So, were are we going to get the new money to fund out trade imbalances? Oh, just have the economy crash into depression so no one can afford to buy anything, then the trade imbalance takes care of itself.
Gold standard? Each person on the planet gets 3, $10 gold coins and $6 worth of silver quarters?
So, I’m gone the next 3 days, and I hope a few people take that time to really think about it.
What do you want the end result of the housing bubble correction to be?
I’m heading out of town for a weekend in celebration of me turning 45
Happy Bday, Darrell! Hope you have a great weekend with your daughter…
Hey, happy b-day, Darrell. Have a great trip and travel safely!
“I’m heading out of town for a weekend in celebration of me turning 45…”
Congrat’s!
Hey come on pokey, I’ll wait fer ya…to catch up. Dylan & eyes is hangin’ @ 56th and Wabasha
Meet us in the morning!
“Baltrun said 90,000 mortgages in Florida had already been permanently modified”
My LL got a mod on 11/05/2010 they are now 10 months delinquent.
Change in federal law to help thousands of Florida families caught in housing crisis
Mortgages on rental properties can be modified
Posted: 02/09/2012
By: Alex Sanz
West Palm Beach, Fla. - Help is on the way for thousands of Florida homeowners caught at the center of the housing crisis.
Starting as early as May, changes being made to a federal program will allow homeowners — for the first time — to request that lenders modify mortgages on their rental properties.
The modifications, until now, had only been allowed for principal residences.
“You realize it’s either, you fight it out and try to pay that payment, or let that property go,” said Jake Espero, a Palm Beach County resident who bought his father’s townhome in Lake Worth before it went under water.
Espero’s story is a familiar one in South Florida.
He lost his job at a loan modification company but still tried to make the $2,000 monthly mortgage payments.
He also tried to find a tenant for his property.
He walked away from the home after he couldn’t keep up with the payments.
“When you have a rental property your expectations are you’re going to make money — maybe not a ton of money — but just something to sustain your family,” he said. “We were stuck under water with a mortgage that was upside down by $150,000.”
Paul Baltrun, director of the Homeowner Assistance Division of the Law Firm of Paul A. Krasker, said the changes in federal law could be a game changer for thousands of Florida families.
“I can’t tell you how many clients we have, and how many people that I’ve talked to, who over the last four years, are literally in a negative cash flow position on their rental property,” he said. “A lot of people still have good credit with these rental properties. They’ve been forced into a position to decide whether or not they want stop paying on the mortgage because it’s very difficult to afford the negative cash flow position, or they want to help preserve their credit.”
Espero, who spent part of his childhood in his father’s home, said the ability to modify the loan on his townhome could potentially allow him to catch up on mortgage payments.
He also said it could open the door to finding a tenant because he could afford to lower the monthly rent.
“I think that there’s still potential in this house,” he said. “We could benefit from it and make a financial gain. If we modify the loan, if nothing else, we would be able to sustain the mortgage on our own.”
Baltrun said 90,000 mortgages in Florida had already been permanently modified.
He expected thousands of additional mortgages in Florida would qualify for the modifications when the changes to the federal law went into effect later this year.
Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/change-in-federal-law-to-help-thousands-of-florida-families-caught-in-housing-crisis#ixzz1lw5YDAv3
Cash For Gold helping drive consumer spending?
Has to be. The craze of the past year+ must be having an effect on the largest segment of our GDP. Yes, the instant-gratification cash is allowing the last of “savings” that individuals have to be easily converted into disposable junk such as Plasma TVs, iPhones/Pads, dining out, whatever Americans spend their money on. The gold was probably the last thing these people owned that had any real liquid value. Now they really do have nothing.
Just think about it, all of those sign-twirling clowns on the side of the road would not be out there if people were not stupid enough to go in there in droves to “cash-out their equity” (which is just what Americans do as a species, apparently). America is getting more poor every time the gold is “cashed-out” for throw-away trash.
Just a thought that occurred to me while driving past a local pawn shop on the way to the gym earlier this evening.
Even if 20% of the gold supply had been owned by US consumers (and it was not), and 100% of it was liquidated at $2000 an ounce (which it was not) that would total about $2T. This is well under half the $5T new money the government has borrowed into existence over the last 4 years.
Heck, all the privately held gold in the world. Some 3 billion ounces, at $1500 an ounce, $4.5T dollars, doesn’t cover how much the government has added to the national debt in the last 4 years.
Sorry, but it is new debt/money generation by the United States government that is funding the global economy.
Az Slim
The Dollar Tree had Dr.Andrew Weil MD’s “Why Our Health Matters”.
His view: We don’t have a heath care system, we have a disease management system.
Looks like a good book. Nothing new I’m sure, but for $1, I might get something out of it.
The book “Search” ($1) taught me about all the data bases on us, and where to write to order a bunch of reports (free). Choice Point was new to me.
I just heard on DC news radio that inventory in DC is the lowest in 7 years.
Well.
Interest rates are below 4%.
Inventory has been kept off the market through a variety of mechanisms.
Government is buying virtually all the mortgages including low and no downpayment loans.
The government has done everything the FIRE sector has asked.
YET - the roaring 2000s are not back. The bubble is not back. Prices are still sliding. Why? Demand is low. Why? Because the sheep have already been fleeced. The wealth has already been extracted.
The hog’s already dead and hanging on the meathook. Can’t drain him of blood again.
I was just reading about student debt in The Economist. In the 70s students could just declare bankruptcy. There were many options to get out from under crushing student debt. But By 1991, all the outs were removed. If you had student debt, it was going to be an albatross.
So - net result - an increasing number of people are going to be much more debt averse going forward. It’s human nature of a certain subset of people not to care about debt. To be willing to sell one’s financial soul to get something now now now.
HOWEVER - it’s also human nature to forget about that thing you bought with debt, and really hate working just to pay your debts. That’s going to create a more toxic atmosphere towards debt. The FIRE sector and the government are going to Peter Principle what they know - they’re going to keep doing the same thing over and over till it stops working (see paragraph 3 above). The only thing that’s going to stop the sump pump from the public treasury is a new to Wall Street is a new crop of politicians in November 2012.