Bits Bucket for February 13, 2012
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The Housing Bubble
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Occupy Movement Regroups, Preparing for Its Next Phase
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/occupy-movement-regroups-laying-plans-for-the-next-phase.html?_r=2&ref=business
Comments:
Occupy is the birth pangs of a US Labor Party.
And it’s about time.
But I love all the pseudo-indignation around here about how the left wing is lazy and the right wing is productive, with not a word about corporate malfeasance and how it was rescued by the back-breaking labor of those who tend to vote D.
So cheer up, OWS haters: capitalism will never be in danger as long as it has socialism to save and protect it time after time.
That said, one more item to add to OWS’s stellar list of much-needed improvements: the red states that take in more federal funding than what they contribute need to return their blue state funding immediately and go it alone. If it’s good enough for urban seniors, it’s good enough for flyover country. As you say, red states, stop the wealth distribution and work hard, and, if you can’t, well, it’s no one’s problem but your own.
On that note, it’ll be fun to watch conservatives continue to willfully trip and stumble all over the standards they uphold for everyone but themselves. But then, I suppose it is rather cruel to take advantage of the ease with which conservatives set themselves up for contempt, no matter how well-deserved.
“…it always fun to watch [sibling$] continue to willfully trip and stumble all over the standard$ they uphold for everyone but themselves. But then, I suppose it is rather cruel to take advantage of the ease with which [sibling$] set themselves up for contempt, no matter how well-deserved.”
Ripped from Hwy50’s family journal pages
“…it always fun to watch [sibling$] continue to willfully trip and stumble all over the standard$ they uphold for everyone but themselves.”
BINGO. That’s what their religion has become anyways.
Muggy, I suspect that white stuff you put in your coffee this morning was not sugar.
OWS is going to pull the labor union wagon?
Disgust and contempt for anyone who isn’t waving a socialist banner or have a “D” branded on their forehead?
How are you going to solve that little problem with states you’ve painted colors? Attack the whole crowd or just attack the individuals getting benefits? Forced migrations?
How are you going to solve that little problem with states you’ve painted colors?
The first step is to acknowledge the problems. (Unlike you do Blue Sky)
For you, gross and growing wealth-inequality and the Banker’s take-over of our Democracy seem to be nothing but blue skies. You’re so above and needn’t be bothered with such “populist claptrap”. Isn’t that so? It takes away from your driftin’ way o’ life.
You like to appear to take a hands off approach in your actual apologist stand on such issues but then you wearily “tire of all the politics” when you are called on your crony-capitalist apologies.
That’s “Skye” to you. As in “Island in the Clouds” as the Vikings called my paternal homeland. We fought them there and won our freedom.
I think problem solving is a wonderful and necessary art. Not easily learned by the natural man, who likes to take really large populations of his fellows and brand them this or that, so that hate and envy can be levied. This doesn’t actually solve anything, but as you are a prime example, sinks the weak of mind into a vile cement.
Ha! You know nothing of my career in the salt mines or my tenure as keeper and defender of little peoples and slayer of bullies. Crusing is a dream that I am doing. Drifting, my ass. Bite me.
That’s “Skye” to you. As in “Island in the Clouds” as the Vikings called my paternal homeland. We fought them there and won our freedom.
Sorry Skye, I didn’t know you were such the Viking warrior. Did you fight alongside Thor?
so that hate and envy can be levied.
Ahh the “hate and envy” meme that the unoriginal thinking or agendized right brings up when wealth-inequality is mentioned. They are overly-used and stupid words to apply to this subject. So did you discipline your kids because you “hated” them? Or when you taught them about greed you were promoting “envy”? lol Your PR machine needs to come up with some buzzwords that better apply to the issue.
my career in the salt mines or my tenure as keeper and defender of little peoples and slayer of bullies
Sorry, I don’t see it in your writing. I see your apologizing for the obscenely rich’s stranglehold on democracy and your defending of the banks and crony-capitalism. Slayer? If anything, you’re the slight-of-hand slayer of the poor and middle-class’s rightful causes. (Aren’t you growing weary of all the politics yet?)
Crusing is a dream
Live the dream. You’re doing “amazing things”.
Drifting, my ass. Bite me.
Oh calm down BlueSky. Why get so upset because of my “toothless” blog posts.
Oh My, it’s your all about your feelings being hurt the day before yesterday!
LOL.
Oh My, it’s your all about your feelings being hurt the day before yesterday!
LOL until you cry BlueSkye Viking. You didn’t hurt my feelings. It’s a blog, not a bar. I just take the gloves off when people think they are taking their gloves off on me. Like when they wrongfully imply that I’ve insulted as FPSSS does. Please. I don’t even come close and you know it. No one does. You just don’t like my politics. Too bad. You get what you give. It’s all about that responsibility for one’s actions the right likes to preach about so much without many walking the walk.
My observations of the vulgar FPSSS and my observations about you, your writings and you being a stealthy apologist for the banks and the massive wealth inequality are valid no matter what you or anyone thinks of my “feelings”. I can just point out differences in softer terms when people are more fair and polite with me. If not….don’t go crying home to mama when you are called-out.
my tenure as keeper and defender of little peoples and slayer of bullies.
Sort of a Travis McGee, with a little Gandalf thrown in?
Remember- Travis’s best friend Meyer lived aboard the ‘John Maynard Keynes’. I think you’ve mistaken your hero’s politics.
” I can just point out differences in softer terms when people are more fair and polite with me.”
Sopken like an abusive dckhead.
Didn’t Gandalf die in the story?
Are you making McGee into my hero and then telling me I’m wrong becuase he had a friend who lived on a boat named Keynes? Brilliant. Wasn’t the full moon last week?
“I can just point out differences in softer terms when people are more fair and polite with me.” Rio
Sopken like an abusive dckhead. BlueSkye
You’re joking Blueskye? You’re a victim because I pointed out in plain English that I see you as a stealthy bankster/wealth-inequality apologist and I didn’t sugarcoat it? You’ve not been abused. Your baseless comparison of me to a serial/vulgar insulter is closer to abuse than what I wrote. You’re good at dishing it out.
But “abusive dckhead”? You’re starting to sound as vulgar as your snapshot buddy. But more importantly, you should realize that calling someone an “abusive dckhead”, libeling and telling them to “bite you” are the traits of the names you have just called.
I’m saying your pose is McGee, but using it to sell your warped politics is not.
I read your book.
You’re joking Blueskye? You’re a victim because I pointed out in plain English that I see you as a stealthy bankster/wealth-inequality apologist and I didn’t sugarcoat it? You’ve not been abused. Your baseless comparison of me to a serial/vulgar insulter is closer to abuse than what I wrote. You’re good at dishing it out.
But “abusive dckhead”? You’re starting to sound as vulgar as your snapshot buddy. But more importantly, you should realize that calling someone an “abusive dckhead”, libeling and telling them to “bite you” are the traits of the names you have just called
And here’s where the late, great OlympiaGal would jump between the two combatants, calling at least one of them a smartypants, then sending them both to their rooms without supper.
No dinner, but with frogs.
I’ll go Slim, I started it.
Besides, I’ve a can pf peanuts and a bottle of applejack in my room, and a book about McGee to read.
and a book about McGee to read.
I love that series- more so in my early teen years, but still to this day.
MacDonald’s novel ‘Condominium’ reads like it was ‘ripped from today’s headlines’, although it was about the 70s Florida real estate bubble/bust. A little dated, of course, but a must-read, really, for HBBers, if just for the historical context, and the parallels to today. And it’s a damn good read.
Excuse, me, Bluester,
Far from “disgust and contempt,” as you call it, most of the OWS folk I know–and I count myself among its supporters– are as inclusive and er, sociable, as any I know.
The whole POINT of the movement is to return democratic ideals (lowercase “d”,) to our country instead of passively ceding its governance to an insular and self-interested few. To this end, Big Labor’s insularity and self-interest are perceived as just as antithetical– though perhaps a bit more Democratic. (uppercase “D”.) Thuggery of any stripe is still thuggery, and exclusion is still exclusion. It’s unfair to equate the influence of the very few (Newt’s Adlesons, for example,) with the collective mites of the many (say, Stephen Colbert’s SuperPAC.)
If you want OWS to truly succeed and flourish, elect a republican in White House.
We already have a moderate Republican in the White House. Any other ideas?
We already have a moderate Republican in the White House. Any other ideas?
Nominated for the HBB Hall of Fame.
We already have a moderate Republican in the White House. Any other ideas?
Yea, here’s an idea. There are no moderate Republicans left in national politics. So how can you call Obama something that does not even exist? (Even the 5-6 who are called “moderates” vote in lockstep with the rest) The Republican party is nowadays a radical party of ideologue, dogmatic extremists.
Cases in point: In debate when asked who would refuse $1 in tax increases in exchange for $10 in spending cuts, ALL of the Republican presidential candidates said they would refuse the deal. All of them? Refuse a 10 to 1 ratio? Yea, Republicans really care about our debt.
Speaker of the House Boehner could not even say the word “compromise” on 60 min. HE COULDN’T UTTER THE WORD. This is our speaker of our House of Representatives! It’s his damn job to SEEK compromise.
Those my friends are classic examples of radical, dogmatic political extremism.
There are no moderate Republicans
What about Bush, Gingrich, Romney, Palin, and 90% of the republicans out there? They are all moderates. Only hard line right winger is Ron Paul.
Cases in point: In debate when asked who would refuse $1 in tax increases in exchange for $10 in spending cuts, ALL of the Republican presidential candidates said they would refuse the deal. All of them? Refuse a 10 to 1 ratio? Yea, Republicans really care about our debt.
Again the logic fails escapes me here. If the goal is to reduce spending why even increase the taxes? Why can’t we just go with $9 in spending cuts?
90% of the republicans out there? They are all moderates
The proof is in the recent pudding. Moderates compromise. Where is the meaningful compromise since the “foreigner Hawaiian” was elected President?
the logic fails escapes me here. If the goal is to reduce spending why even increase the taxes? Why can’t we just go with $9 in spending cuts?
And why can’t we go with just tax increases? Why? Because it’s called compromise.
Budgets have two (2) major components-revenue and spending.
Not one, but two. There is is.
I just gave you a perfect example of compromise ($9 dollars in spending cuts as opposed to $10 to $1 smoke and mirror). I know that most repubs would take that. How many democrats will support that?
I guess the dems are not moderates either…..
I just gave you a perfect example of compromise ($9 dollars in spending cuts as opposed to $10 to $1 smoke and mirror)
I think you need to look up the words “perfect” and “compromise”.
Then maybe “wealth-inequality” and “democracy”.
The Republican party is nowadays a radical party of ideologue, dogmatic extremists ??
Damm right & Spot On Rio…The party of anger…Its the only thing they have left…
‘The party of anger’
Yeah, what’s an opponent of endless wars to do? Vote for the guy who who has launched more tomahawk missiles than all other Nobel peace prize winners - combined!
the logic fails escapes me here. If the goal is to reduce spending why even increase the taxes? Why can’t we just go with $9 in spending cuts?
The goal being discussed, theoretically, is deficit reduction. This is the problem with GOP rhetoric. They claim to be concerned about the deficit, but they really just want to reduce spending on safety net programs.
“Yeah, what’s an opponent of endless wars to do? Vote for the guy who who has launched more tomahawk missiles than all other Nobel peace prize winners - combined!”
Obama is Caesar….. Bush was Caesar… Clinton was Caesar.
You guys playing the partisan BS aren’t getting catching on. We’re an empire, just like Rome…. endless war, slaves(spanish speaking folks), inflated currency, crushing the little guys, etc. We even have a senate. We’re beyond drawing parallels now. It’s the real thing. The only guy I thought would change it embraced it.
the guy who who has launched more tomahawk missiles than all other Nobel peace prize winners - combined!
(Now that’s funny!)
The only guy I thought would change it embraced it ??
Bull-$!TT….When one third of the legislative branch makes it clear that they hate you and will do anything (ANYTHING !) to see you fail (Which is exactly what they are attempting to do) then what chance for change is there….
The goal being discussed, theoretically, is deficit reduction. This is the problem with GOP rhetoric. They claim to be concerned about the deficit, but they really just want to reduce spending on safety net programs.
We have a winner folks.
Fuinny how you never hear the GOP talk about reducing military spending, while they won’t stop yammering about killing SS and Medicare.
“But we have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”
Remember that classic meme from 2002, when the TeeVee confused the frightened sheeple into believing that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11?
“Bull-$!TT”
No…. it’s reality. Brother O serves the empire. Whether he or you like it or not.
“Why can’t we just go with $9 in spending cuts?”
RNC trolls for austerity!!!
“I know that most repubs would take that. How many democrats will support that?”
How do repubs ‘know’ so much without ever conducting a shard of research or citing a reference to back up their position.
It always amazes me how knowledgeable they are, despite nothing whatsover to back it up.
“‘The party of anger’
Yeah, what’s an opponent of endless wars to do?”
How Ron Paul shook up the GOP race
The 76-year-old libertarian won’t win, but he’s got more fans than ever
by Luiza Ch. Savage on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:40am
…
As at Obama’s rallies in the 2008 campaigns, there are many more young people, and more vocal enthusiasm, at Paul campaign events than at those of others. But Forsythe sees a difference: “If you ask who was behind the Obama movement, it was Obama the person. Here, Paul has kept the focus on the ideas.” Robert Lampley, a 50-year-old truck driver from West Columbia, agrees. “It’s a simple message of less government and more freedom,” he says. “I am against the war. He’s the most pro-personal liberty.” If not for Paul, Lampley said he would vote for the ultra-conservative Constitution party. Lampley dismisses other candidates’ warnings that Paul’s foreign policy is dangerous: “They are warmongers,” he says.
Such sentiments explain why Paul is drawing many voters who in 2008 voted for that other anti-war candidate, Obama. And he gives voice to the isolationist and anti-“nation-building” and anti-foreign aid instincts, which have long dwelled among Republicans—think Pat Buchanan—but had been suppressed when Bush was commander-in-chief. Indeed, Paul was one of only six Republicans to vote against the Iraq war. Now he wants to close down U.S. bases abroad and withdraw the United States from the UN and from NATO. “He wants to end the warmongering and bring the troops home,” says Steve Patterson, a 44-year-old chef, one of the Paul supporters who remained outside the tent at Myrtle Beach. “Every other candidate wants to bomb Iran.”
But it’s the foreign policy positions that keep the majority of Republican voters wary of Paul. The most damaging moment for his campaign may have been in the televised debate on Jan. 16, when he was pressed on his view that U.S. forces should not have violated Pakistani sovereignty to raid Osama bin Laden’s compound—and that the al-Qaeda leader should have been tried, not shot. Says Frank McIntosh, an undecided voter: “I like a lot of his ideas, but I’m afraid of some of his views on foreign relations.”
…
‘But it’s the foreign policy positions that keep the majority of Republican voters wary of Paul. The most damaging moment for his campaign may have been in the televised debate on Jan. 16, when he was pressed on his view that U.S. forces should not have violated Pakistani sovereignty to raid Osama bin Laden’s compound—and that the al-Qaeda leader should have been tried, not shot. Says Frank McIntosh, an undecided voter: “I like a lot of his ideas, but I’m afraid of some of his views on foreign relations.”
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958/quotes
‘But, man, you’re never going to get any truth from us. We’ll tell you anything you want to hear. We’re all you know. You’re beginning to believe the illusions we’re spinning here. You do whatever the tube tells you! You dress like the tube, you eat like the tube, you raise your children like the tube, you even *think* like the tube! You’re beginning to believe that the tube is reality and your own lives are unreal.’
‘Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn’t come out of this tube. This tube is the gospel, the ultimate revelation; this tube can make or break presidents, popes, prime ministers; this tube is the most awesome goddamn propaganda force in the whole godless world, and woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of the wrong people, and that’s why woe is us that Edward George Ruddy died. Because this company is now in the hands ofthe Communications Corporation of America. And when the 12th largest company in the world controls the most awesome goddamn propaganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network?’
Where is Paddy Cheyefsky now when we really need him?
Obama was right when he said he was the only one between the pitchforks and the banksters. Republican in white house, you will see a OWS grow leaps and bounds. Same with the Anti War and any other Anti stuff. Democrats are caught between a rock and a hard place. They want to get out on the street but can’t because they also like the taste of power that comes having a Dem president.
“…Same with the Anti War and any other Anti stuff….”
That’s what we thought with GW, negative1, and look where it got us for eight years. His cronies looted our treasury and ruined our country in spite of millions of us marching in the streets against his stupid little war and mean-hearted domestic policy. The media is owned by the corporate few, and the electorate are, for the most part, dumbeffs.
Obama is a centrist Republican because he HAS to be.
Occupy would be a lot more successful if they ditch the worker woodstock persona. They could have avoided 80% of the jeering and 100% of the police actions — indefinitely — if they protested from 8 am to 6 pm each day in suits and ties.
(when did you ever see MLK not in a suit and tie?)
MLK was a preacher, something that is overlooked, on purpose I believe, these days (It was some time ago when he stopped being Rev. MLK and became Dr. MLK). A suit and tie was the standard uniform for Protestant preachers back then.
And he was named after a priest.
“And he was named after a priest.”
And MLK began to execute what his namesake started…. and was murdered by the US Govt in order to stop him.
Martin Luther was a Priest, until he nailed the Thesis to the cathedral door. I suspect that MLK was named after Martin Luther the Reformer as opposed to Martin Luther the former priest.
Correct.
“Martin Luther was a Priest, until he nailed the Thesis to the cathedral door.”
Rabble rouser — though quite an admirable one.
Occupy would be a lot more successful if they ditch the worker woodstock persona.
Wrong. Nothing wrong with woodstock persona. They need more participants. And this has to come from rank and file dems as you know most of the repubs don’t see that many problems with WS as is.
“(when did you ever see MLK not in a suit and tie?)”
When he was with his mistress?
When he was with his mistress?
LOL good… Awesome!
Likewise, anyone else who is with his mistress. Or her other man.
Do you mean “another” one? Obama is Bush’s third term so far.
“But then, I suppose it is rather cruel to take advantage of the ease with which conservatives set themselves up for contempt, no matter how well-deserved.”
Says who? Turn-about is always fair play.
Muggy, I just got back, from FL. I was looking in the west Pasco area. Frustrating, everything seems to be short sales or 2004 asking prices (no in-between). I was also in Sarasota (daughter’s college NCF) Took her to dinner, on a wednesday night 7:30, 40 min. wait. WTF, Sarasota is a microcosm of the USA-very wealthy, very poor and retirees(who think they’re wealthy).
“Muggy, I just got back, from FL.”
I didn’t realize you had left. I thought you lived on the east coast.
“Sarasota (daughter’s college NCF)”
OMG!! Liberal arts… Noooooooo!! How will she survive?!
FWIW, I posted the OWS link and comment because I thought it was interesting… wasn’t making any kind of statement.
My Delaware attorney bud has always said, much like Combo, that capitalism is easy to avoid because you choose how you spend your dollars. So, if you don’t like greedy pigs, you don’t give them your money. I realize that sometimes that is easier said than done.
With that in mind, I wholly approve of Blue’s detached lifestyle. He doesn’t like the system/debt, so he avoids it. Maybe I missed something, but that is very different than being a WS apologist.
You missed something.
You missed something.
I just have missed it too; I have never taken Blue Skye for a WS apologist.
Pointer, please, alpha? Thx…
Pointer, please, alpha?
He never misses a chance to justify or excuse the actions of the banksters, while turning any legitimate anger over the banksters’ actions back at the FBs. I’ve been goosing him about this for quite a while, if it’s news to you, you haven’t been paying attention.
His no-debt/pseudo-Travis McGee lifestyle is a nice disguise for a bankster apologist.
Read his posts yourself, and you make the call. But see if you notice a pattern. The big guys’ shenanigans are always excused, the little guys always need to be taught a lesson. (The opposite of McDonald’s McGee, BTW.)
Any suggestions to the opposite he deems ‘mean-spirited class-warfare’.
He’s a brave defender of the oligarchs and their lootings.
I’ll try to be polite, out of respect for Mrs.Olympiagal. Both of you guys carry things a bit too far, extrapolating from what I say and making the rest up, because I do not beat the drum for you. I’m not pretending to be a financial genius, just somebody who has been in debt and got away from it, the long way, before it was cool. What I call you on relentlessly is excusing the debt slaves for voluntarily giving up their freedom. They own that. It’s like Faust, you don’t have to be an agent of the Devil to point at the fact that one volunteers to be in league with him, or not. You would like to fix things by hanging the bankers and walking away from what you owe. What I am practicing is fixing things by starving the bankers, doing all to avoid paying them tribute. Calling me a banker shill is very illogical.
In the American Revolution, we didn’t want to go and hang King George, we just wanted to deprive him of our tribute. Americans were encouraging each other to stand up and fight in this way, for their own freedom. Would you call them Georgist apologists? If I harp on people to avoid debt, why do you call me a banker’ apologist? It is your responsibility not to give your freedom up. Complaining about fairness after you sign the contract is a loser’s strategy.
If you get out of debt, the banking system as it exists will collapse. Reform will result. Honesty breeds honesty. Peanut butter will again be affordable.
Well said, Blue Skye. And I totally agree with your statements.
I try to live the same way: pay the banksters no interest, by refusing to go into debt to them. Starve the beast!
Early on in my life, I was married, broke as h#ll while in grad-school, and I still refused to pay them any tribute. We used to ask ourselves whether we could afford a $2 movie rental and an $8 take-out pizza splurge on a Friday night—and frequently the answer was “no”. If we spent it, we would have been running up debt.
I’ll say it again: I’ve never interpreted what Blue Skye wrote as an apology for banksters.
And I’m with Muggy on this: living a low-footprint debt-free lifestyle does not reflect badly on Blue in any way. He is simply living in accordance with his values.
I wish more people would live so as to starve the beast, because we would then have much less of a vampire-squid sucking the life-blood out of our society.
If I harp on people to avoid debt, why do you call me a banker’ apologist?
Because you do both. It’s not complicated, although that “complication’s” appearance gives you cover.
Complaining about fairness after you sign the contract is a loser’s strategy.
The social “contract” has been perverted and is rigged. You ignore it, apologize for it and thus support the rigging. Not everyone is at the point of their lives where they can buy a boat be “above it all”.
You just helped make my point.
He doesn’t like the system/debt, so he avoids it. Maybe I missed something, but that is very different than being a WS apologist.
Slight of hand. Stealth. Being “above it all” while subtly casting condescending derision upon those who question the dangerous concentration of wealth and banker’s power. As if those who question such are just lazy, jealous or hateful. (or should just buy a boat)
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/
Seen this?
Occupy is yet another attempt by Acorn. Always has been.
Straight from FauxNews. Thanks for keeping us updated, Dave!
When I first read the OWS platform there were like 20 planks, 18 of them dealing with financial issues, two off-topic (animal rights and death penalty).
I realized they were in danger right then of being co-opted by interest groups who would seek to use the movement as a vessel for their own agendas.
When I last viewed the platform, there seemed to be precious few financial issues and a great deal of cruft imposed by the well-organized interest groups.
I was pretty stoked about OWS at the start. But what Wall Street has done is hard to fit in brief summaries. The original summary was pretty solid. What they’re accused of doing should be in the constitution of OWS.
I’m not surprised at all Acorn is using the OWS vessel to advance its own agenda, like the other interest groups have. It’s just another of the death by a thousand cuts.
The reality is there’s a lot of dissatisfaction out there. But without discipline and organization, the dissatisfaction dissipates from the form it took and recedes back to simmer amongst the population. The net result of what OWS indicated to me was, “This could be an interesting election year.”
You, sir, are a nitwit. Time to go back on Saul Alinsky patrol– his minions are probably hiding under your bed at this very minute!
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-02-13 01:22:01
“The bottom will be LONG and flat. If you miss it by a couple of years, it will be no big deal. Prices are not going up anytime soon.”
I’m not even sure it will be flat. At some point, due to demographics and the shadow inventory it should settle into a protracted grind down. The trick will be figuring out your own individual marginal utility (did I use that term right?).
For some people the math is hard. Like right now, the difference between renting and owning is negligible because rents haven’t fallen. But today’s knife catchers don’t see that in a few years their house will decrease in value, say $100/mo. Then they’ll put a pencil to paper and decide they don’t want to throw $1,200/yr. away (which will be a lot in 2019 dollars) and walk away.
I’ve been at this since 2006 and I am in by far the worst mental state yet. It is very stressful, as evidenced by my insomnia and irritability, to be constantly worrying about where I will live next. It’s way harder to move with kids and I am completely blown out by the shitty quality of Tampa area rentals.
This thing is killing me. I have to figure out how to make it stop without buying a house.
“to be constantly worrying about where I will live next.”
The number #1 (40 years) concern of my deceased lil’ sister.
In her case it was mostly due to life-long financial instabilitie$.
(No needs to mention the many undaunted failures of her “knights-in-not-so-shiny-armor” / “NOT-a-Gentleman-nor-an-Officer” type relationships for “let’s go through all this TOGETHER shall we?”) :-/
“But today’s knife catchers don’t see that in a few years their house will decrease in value, say $100/mo. Then they’ll put a pencil to paper and decide they don’t want to throw $1,200/yr. away (which will be a lot in 2019 dollars) and walk away. ”
That’s nothing. 12 years ago early in the bubble I paid 1/8 mil for what I came to believe was a bubbled up 100K house and I was absolutely sick to my stomach at overpaying by the cost of a new car. (later bubbled up to a 1/3 mil or so, now back down to 175K or so, which is still way too high…) 12 years later I look back at new water heater, new central air, new furnace, new (ungodly expensive flat) roof, new driveway, new siding and new structural wood in the garage, mostly new appliances in fact the only “appliance” not replaced in 12 years is the bathroom sink faucet… If I only had $100/month loss to worry about WRT the house, I would be beyond thrilled. My rent to the city aka property tax is $300/month, my combined electric/gas bill hovers in the $175ish range on average although January is often near $400…
Another “fun” one to watch is you don’t buy a “home” or even a “house” you buy a box filled with expenses. So, you got a mcmansion for 0% down and 4% a year and the bank would approve any amount you wanted… but you didn’t actually buy a mcmansion, you bought a $5000 furnace/aircon/filter/humidifier “system”. And when it breaks due to inflation and 24 hour emergency overtime service that’s gonna be $10000 to replace. And unlike buying a house, you can’t just decide not to and rent for awhile, its going to be spent probably that very day it fails or you get to replace all your frozen plumbing. And unlike a house, you get to pay 29.999% credit card instead of 4%. And unlike a house, the bank only offers you $7500 credit limit instead of bubble era “infinite”, whoops it costs $10000 you got a problem there. And unlike a house, you’re not allowed to simply stop paying for your furnace for a year or two before trouble starts.
My point is that a house is like a license to consume, and if you think its just like an apartment except you write “THE” check to the bank instead of the landlord, then eventually you’ve got a big expensive surprise on the way … My mortgage payment is only around half my total cost of housing. Lost $100/month? Thats lost in the noise of poor attic insulation and faucet repairs and stuff like that.
Obviously I take this all back if you live in what we in the midwest consider flyover country, that being the hyperinflated coasts we fly over on the way to overseas vacations, which we easily afford by not overpaying for houses. On the coasts, if you buy a $1M house and it has a capital loss of perhaps $25K/month that moves well outside the “pocket change compared to my replacement clothes dryer” level of expenses.
Not to worry. Soon our government will offer bailouts for failed appliances, new roofs, and other homeowner expenses that nobody can see coming. We can’t have anybody actually being responsible for anything on their own. That might compromise consumption, and our country will be damned if that’s going to be allowed to happen.
You mean the same gov’t that is steadily withdrawing funding for State U’s?
There is no cheese for the middle class. Only for the poor and the rich. The middle class is expected to pay taxes, not get free goodies.
“Another “fun” one to watch is you don’t buy a “home” or even a “house” you buy a box filled with expense$.”
Window open = fre$h air!
(stick around vinceinwaukesha, eyes got some flash-cards for you to gander at)
Obviously I take this all back if you live in what we in the midwest consider flyover country, that being the hyperinflated coasts we fly over on the way to overseas vacations, which we easily afford by not overpaying for houses.
LOL. You do have to pity the poor rubes on the coasts, conned like lemmings into moving to crowded places with extremely expensive housing and living costs, because that’s where the big, successful jobs supposedly are (that still won’t pay the expenses), and the exciting, as-seen-on-TV lifestyles (that no one really lives).
+1
I love how they project Californians getting massages at the beach, when most of them spend their free time in traffic jams on the freeways, driving to their inland valley homes that are hours from the beach.
I get to see the beach every day on my drive into and back home from work!
But how often to you go to the beach?
When I lived in NH I often went to the beach before work. Kind of a zen thing. In February, the seals were sometimes up on the rocks in front of where I was parked. I was all mello and ready to play when I walked in the doors at work.
I went to the beach almost every day in the summers when I lived at the Cape. Again, dog and I walked the beach in February (yes it’s nasty freezing bone chilling cold) looking for seals or washed up tortoises.
Btw, we bought that house on the cape for $135k. Back before cheap credit ran everything up.
When I lived in NH I often went to the beach before work. Kind of a zen thing. In February, the seals were sometimes up on the rocks in front of where I was parked. I was all mello and ready to play when I walked in the doors at work.
When things got rough at work, I would have been tempted to galumph around the office floor, going “Awwrr, awwrr, awwrr!” like the seals outside.
Yes, I was that kind of coworker. You should’ve heard my bird call imitations.
I have to say that after 1.5 years in Kansas I am not missing the hustle and costs of San Diego.
Make less, live better and feel like I have breathing room. (Although houses are still bubbly here in the sticks, cannot believe what they want for some houses in nowhere KS. Far more than Terre Haute housing even with a smaller economy. Nope, the bubble still has a lot of deflating left.)
PB - Don’t worry. I’ll probably start drinking even before I learn you bought a house so please do tell. It is one of the signs I am waiting for on the bottom. (OK, so was Jo buying, but there’s always an outlier.) Hope to see you and the HBB gang in June when I’m back in SD and OC.
Robin - PB is not Rich T. Although he is more than one person on the blog. Three that I know of, and I always was a little suspicious of Eddie.
Renters Rule!
“Make less, live better and feel like I have breathing room.”
I’m jealous — and thinking of my ancestors’ peaceful existence in Kansas.
“I’ll probably start drinking even before I learn you bought a house so please do tell.”
Don’t drink on my account; be your own person, and do what is best for you and yours.
“…and I always was a little suspicious of Eddie.”
Thanks for the wonderfully imaginative conjecture that Eddie was a strawman I created just for the cruel pleasure of tearing him down. Unfortunately, that is not the case — he was altogether too real.
“Hope to see you and the HBB gang in June when I’m back in SD and OC.”
Hope to be around for that!
I’m jealous — and thinking of my ancestors’ peaceful existence in Kansas.
1st half of my life in KS and the MidWest. 2nd half of my life in LA and a “paradise” town in NorCal. When I used to tell the CA people about the less stressful, spacious KS/MidWest life, they’d look at me like I was from the moon. But they were wrong. They just were incapable from imagining different.
Now the 3rd “half” of my life? Well, I ain’t in Kansas anymore.
Too much to hope that the Eddie’s in the world don’t exist?
I’ll let you know June details soon and we’ll see if there’s any chance of dragging Ben back out to So. Cal.
Good post Vince.
The truth is houses depreciate as does everything contained in them.
Why does the public run from that fact?
The truth is houses depreciate as does everything contained in them.
Maybe right now but always and in every circumstance?
What about a reinforced concrete frame masonry house that can last 200 years and with a clay roof that will last 75 years? And what if the little wood used in it is bug-proof and is so hard and heavy that it sinks in water?
In that 100-200 year span of utility, has that house depreciated?
It’s the laws of nature. Manmade items depreciate. I suppose you could cherry pick something like Buckingham Palace and say that it doesn’t.
We build structures heavily reinforced with 9, 10, 11’s, 18″ walls, 4500psi mix design and temperature reinforcing and believe me when I tell you, they last maybe 30 years before they need to be built once again. Granted it’s a different end user but the strength and design requirements are much much higher than a pitched roof imposes on cast in place walls used in your example. You may have an exception under ideal conditions where their is no freezing, no erosional effects from wind/small debris, limited deterioration due to ambient or atmospheric conditions, etc.
These items, including houses, end up back in the ground. Right where they came from.
OK Rio you are correct that is a great house I’d love to live in. The other depreciation is more expensive than the wall studs… the dishwasher machine breaks down just as fast in any house… ditto furnace, plumbing, etc. Oddly enough the only thing I haven’t spent a penny on in the last 12 years is the walls and foundation. You are correct about the roof, I wish I installed steel instead of asphalt, and/or maybe tore down the new addition part with the flat roof.
I am quite certain that the possibility of a 200 year water heater has been very carefully value engineered away. Those manufacturers need the reoccurring sales stream.
“I am quite certain that the possibility of a 200 year water heater has been very carefully value engineered away. Those manufacturers need the reoccurring sales stream.”
BINGO
Planned Obsolescence, first engineered and brought to the public by none other than GE.
“Maybe right now but always and in every circumstance?”
Unless you are in a mania, houses are a depreciating asset; in order to avoid physical depreciation, you have to sink in money for maintenance and repairs.
In that 100-200 year span of utility, has that house depreciated?
As it gets close to its 200yr lifetime, sure it should have depreciated. Would the slope of decline be much gentler for such long-lived construction? Certainly.
‘Manmade items depreciate. I suppose you could cherry pick something like Buckingham Palace and say that it doesn’t.”
There are “noteworthy” exceptions. And I submit that Buckingham Palace has far higher maintenance and repair costs than does a nice Strad. They aren’t making any more Strads, you know.
I have a nice personal anecdote to add: In the Midwestern town where I used to live was a professional cellist who moonlighted as an instrument dealer. He had a largish home in the nice part of town, with a capacious basement whose walls were lined with violins. I visited his home a few times to try out instruments on a broad price range (let’s say from $10K to $100K in 1990 dollars and instrument prices).
He once told me about his Japanese customers’ buying habits; they would fly into town on Friday evening from Tokyo, come by his shop on Saturday morning and snap up maybe ten instruments from his collection, then fly back home that night.
Rare Violin Fetches $16M at Auction
Price was more than four times the record for a Stradivarius
By Greg Wilson | Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 | Updated 8:39 AM CST
In this photo taken in 2008 and released by Nippon Music Foundation, “Lady Blunt,” a 1721 Stradivarius violin, is shown in Tokyo. The Japanese music foundation has sold a renowned Stradivarius violin for US$16 million at a London auction to raise money for tsunami disaster relief. The nonprofit foundation said Tuesday, June 21, 2011, the proceeds from selling the nearly 300-year-old violin will go to relief projects in northern Japan where the deadly earthquake and tsunami hit on March 11. (AP Photo/Nippon Music Foundation, S. Yokoyama) MANDATORY CREDIT
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A nearly 300-year-old fiddle once owned by Lord Byron’s granddaughter sold for $16 million at an auction to raise money for disaster relief in Japan.
The price was more than four times the previous record for a Stradivarius. It was put up for sale by the Nippon Music Foundation, which owns some of the world’s finest Stradivari and Guarneri instruments, according to the BBC.
“While this violin was very important to our collection, the needs of our fellow Japanese people after the March 11th tragedy have proven that we all need to help, in any way we can,” said Foundation president Kazuko Shiomi. “The donation will be put to immediate use on the ground in Japan.”
The violin is one of 600 made by Italian Antonio Stradivari still in existence.
I am quite certain that the possibility of a 200 year water heater has been very carefully value engineered away.
Does anyone know what the real effective lifetime is of those instant water-heaters? It seems like it should be much higher without the tank/corrosion issues…
Aren’t the tanks in the Insta-Hot’s metallic?
Thankless water heaters are too new to establish a real lifetime. From what I can tell, a small thankless is good if you have a sink far from the WH, but for whole-house water supply, it’s only marginally better than a well-insulated new WH ($1K at best). Not worth the energy savings.
for whole-house water supply, it’s only marginally better than a well-insulated new WH ($1K at best). Not worth the energy savings.
Why would that be the case? It would seem that avoiding standby losses 24×7 would have to add up to some reasonable savings.
I don’t think the energy savings vs a gas water heater (my water heater is the only gas applicance that runs in the summer - average bill is $8) is worth it, but if you have a deep bathtub (and if you don’t have a deep bathtub, then why have a bathtub?) or several people in the house who take showers all in a row in the morning, then they are much better than a tank water heater.
“Does anyone know what the real effective lifetime is of those instant water-heaters? It seems like it should be much higher without the tank/corrosion issues…”
Mine is about 8 years old and has a 25 year guarantee from a Japanese company founded in 1920, so far so good. Mystified why they haven’t been value engineered yet. Maybe they are value engineered… for 24×7 corporate laundromat operations, I donno. failure modes I know about and have NOT (yet) experienced:
1) Failure to acid back flush “every couple years” to remove water deposits increases delta T until external exchange temp exceeds limit and its all over. Blame the customer and no guarantee due to misuse. Also build up grunges up the water flow and temp sensors, again screwing it up and not covered under misuse. Follow the instructions and you’re OK. No one follows the instructions.
2) There is no industry standard I’m aware of for hot wire ignition source. You get to ignite the gas maybe 10K times per igniter, then you have to replace the igniter. After 8 years I’m not at, but closely approaching need for new igniter (onboard microprocessor keeps track). “Less than a hundred bucks” assuming you do it yourself. My fear is they have a huge financial motivation for discontinuing my model of igniter, if they do that they make $700 off me instead of just $70. I’m a bit nervous about this.
3) Lightning strike is going to blow up the on board processor long before the heat exchanger corrodes thru. I really don’t know how to budget for this, and its not covered under guarantee. I ran a dedicated ckt to it, its got a surge protector, and copper pipes mean its pretty well grounded which is both good and bad. I don’t live in OK or FL but I don’t live in a completely t-storm free environment either.
4) You absolutely need gas, electric, and water 24×7 if its below freezing. My guess is a minor “half day” power failure on a below zero day equals a cracked exchanger, unless you quickly close the valves and drain it (which is easy, and I do have a 5 gallon bucket right under it which is more than enough. Maybe if my particular installation had a longer than 1 foot intake/exhaust pipe it wouldn’t be an issue.
Like I said so far so good, but the only thing it has in common with a tank heater is that it does output hot water, other than that, its all different in all ways.
As it gets close to its 200yr lifetime, sure it should have depreciated.
IDK about that when you add in the rent savings (I know that doesn’t count but I think it does) and the value of the land itself after 100-200 years.
“Thankless water heaters are too new to establish a real lifetime. ”
Oh Mr Oxide such a nice chemical name but I regret to inform you you’re oh so wrong.
We flew to Ireland on vacation, got quite a lecture from some of the locals about how there are no tank-style heaters in all of Europe, they’re illegal or something due to environmental regs or whatever since “the war” (WWII), from memory it was only weeks at home before we got one to replace a 15 year old tank dinosaur that came with the house (that only had a 8 year guarantee, so we were living on borrowed time).
The most important advice I got from our irish hosts is the cost of the heater scales quadratically or something with the delta-t times flow rate (basically the energy output), and your plumber on commission will insist you install a heater big enough to run all taps wide open at a temperature high enough to steam clean a carpet because … he’s on commission obviously. Advice was to figure out the flow rate of your bathtub faucet and be happy at a bathtub faucet temperature of 105 degrees and tell the plumber to pound sand if he insists on something ten times the size and cost (and ten times the commission). If you need 180 degree tap water that is both extremely dangerous (3rd degree burns) and infinitely cheaper to just use the microwave.
IDK about that when you add in the rent savings (I know that doesn’t count but I think it does) and the value of the land itself after 100-200 years.
200 years of maintenance costs on the structure? 200 years of taxes on structure and land?
The “value of land” isnt much as far as I can tell. I know guys who bought 50 acre tracts in the 1980’s bubble and are still underwater.
IDK about that when you add in the rent savings (I know that doesn’t count but I think it does) and the value of the land itself after 100-200 years.
I said that the building would depreciate; I said nothing about the land.
The depreciation has nothing to do with the rent or imputed rent. They’re apples and oranges.
“…the dishwasher machine breaks down just as fast in any house”
Hey now just a dog-gone second…
(Well, It’s true eyes gettin’ older, just a rustin’ away from the inside,… but actually eyes a thinkin’ eyes become a better dishwasher as the years roll by…slower, but better, seems like therapy these days.)
The difference in maintenance required on a sticks and drywall shack vs bricks and mortar construction is vast. I’ve seen 60 year old houses in Mexico with the orginal roofs. Plus a lot of those houses did not have dishwashers, AC, central heating, etc. Kitchen cabinets were often made of steel (those suckers last forever). Flooring could be tile or some other stony material (also indestructible). Linoleum and capeting were also used, so those, along with hardwood flooring, did wearout.
There would be ocassional plumbing work required (replace a dead water heater or fix a leaky faucet).
The depreciation has nothing to do with the rent or imputed rent. They’re apples and oranges.
I know they are they are apples and oranges but when I don’t have oranges I can eat the apples. Or I can sell the land with the apple trees and buy some oranges.
“Mr Oxide” is not a Mr, waukesha.
This brings up one of my never-answered questions.
Assuming you had to finance some or all of the purchase price, would it not make more sense to finance the components of a house based on their life limit, rather than roll it all into the price of the house, and finance it for 30 years?
Instead of one big note, have:
-A note loan on the basic house and lot for 30 years’
-A second one for (say) 10 years on the heating/air conditioning/electrical/plumbing
-A third one for (say) 5-8 years for the carpeting and built in appliances?
Basically, make the financing dependent on the expected life-limit of the product purchased. Done in the airplane refurb business all the time……
Of course, I sure someone will hate it, because they get screwed out of a big fat commission, or something……
““Mr Oxide” is not a Mr, waukesha.”
My public apologies. My assumption is it was a pun on the name “Rusty” (iron oxide, get it?) and I had a friend named Rusty of the male persuasion.
I have had 3 houses, each one appreciated more than 50% when I sold.
Tom Hanks was in a movie called The Money Pit. It used to be a common term, but I’d not heard it in the past decade. The concept is still alive and well however.
“At some point, due to demographics and the shadow inventory it should settle into a protracted grind down. The trick will be figuring out your own individual marginal utility (did I use that term right?).
A+
“This thing is killing me.”
F
For the record, “marginal utility” means how much more “utility” you get from doing something a little bit more relative to everything else you can do under your household budget constraint. At least this is the way microeconomists see it. Since macroeconomists believe the printing press can be used to override the budget constraint, I’m not actually sure what they think…
“This thing is killing me. I have to figure out how to make it stop without buying a house.”
Rethinking big decisions constantly is a killer. Hopefully you do not reconsider the wife and kids as frequently!
Are you near “Peak Baggage”? I think the number of UHauls it took me to move cross country peaked at about age 45. I remember a lesson from Philmont days. We had to bring our packs in for inspection every week leading up to the trip. The senior scout would look at mine each time and shake his head. “Get rid of half” he’d say, “you’re going to carry that crap for 75 miles!”
“Hopefully you do not reconsider the wife and kids as frequently!”
Wife = once or twice a year
Kids = every time I get hit/kicked/punched in the gomers.
“Are you near “Peak Baggage?”
Not yet. I figure when my kids are in the early teens… right now we’re reasonably light. I think I could move the fam in a UHaul 17″.
“a UHaul 17″
You have earned my respect. My oldest needed almost a 17 when she left home to chase romance. Of course, she didn’t know how to nest things and plie in to the cieling. So, what’s the big deal moving, are you so reluctant to Dap the holes left by picture hangers? Don’t say it is the kids, they adapt to adventure just fine.
This thing is killing me. I have to figure out how to make it stop without buying a house.
Jeez we’re in the same spot Muggy. Having kids makes the mobility thing totally different.
I can live with throwing away $1200 year. Stability is worth it to me. We have a side business (as do many teachers) and we plan on expanding anyway once we have our own home.
How much depreciation can I deal with? That’s the question I lie awake at night thinking about.
But HOME is more than just numbers. Even when renting you make decisions that are more emotional than financial: pay more for a rental that just feels right or has a sunnier yard or is on a quieter street. Heck, most renters pay hundreds more per month to be in a neighborhood they like or feel safe or can commute easily from.
Even with all that, I just dunno. We gotta move, and there are NO rentals out there unless we leave the city and commute, but that also means changing both our kid’s schools, too.
We could rent for $3500 month, move to a sketchy neighborhood, or buy for 3K a month. But no matter how you slice it we need a roof over our heads.
Where’s that Housing Is Too Damn High party, I’ll vote for them.
We could rent for $3500 month, move to a sketchy neighborhood, or buy for 3K
If you can afford it, then buy, pay 3.7K per month, pay it off in 12 years or so and who cares about the depreciation? Depreciation on what? Something that you will own outright in 12 years? Do you know how fast 12 years go by? Better yet, I’d rent one more year and prepare for the above plan.
Better yet, I’d rent one more year and prepare for the above plan.
That’s kind of what we’re thinking. We have everything in place if we find the perfect place, and are also figuring out the best way to keep the dotty old landlady happy, or at least shine her on for another 6-9 months.
We are on a month-to-month lease with no rent control, so she has the upper hand, but after speaking with a friend who is a tenant’s rights lawyer, and the process of evicting someone can be long and drawn out, so we can buy some time.
I
“Having kids makes the mobility thing totally different.”
I am EXTREMELY biased in this regard. I still have my kindergarten class photo and I am still in touch with about 1/2 of my classmates, and had an awesome high school experience with almost all of them.
I am very thankful for all of that.
My NYC lawyer bud was my best a man and we still talk about 4x yr. for an hour or so. I’ve known him since I can remember remembering.
My l’il man is 4 right now, so we’ve got a year or two to figure it out.
What about on the west coast where some home cost $1200 PITI per month to own and rent for $2000?
out on the west coast where some home cost $1200 PITI per month to own and rent for $2000?
Where would that be, Avocado? It’s certainly not that way in Seattle!
Check out the central coast, Paso, Lompoc or North San Diego inland a little, Temecula, San Marcos… [with 20% down].
I have seen Lompoc first hand. Places at $149k that would rent for $1400.
exhibit A: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/32098-Corte-Eldorado-Temecula-CA-92592/18196095_zpid/
I have seen Lompoc first hand. Places at $149k that would rent for $1400.
These are opposite ratios from even 2007. I still would not buy just to be an investor.
Did someone say Realtors Are Liars? checkout this nonsense…
Real estate analysts report shift in trends
“The big news for 2011 was the shift in the buyer’s focus from the high-end to single-family homes listed for under $1 million,” according to the Viehman report, available at jacksonholereport.com. “At the end of 2011, we tracked 103 home sales for under $1 million, or 55 percent of the overall home sales.”
Inventory in the sub-$1 million segment of the market is depleting, and with it the window for getting into a home at a relatively good price is closing, the report states.
“All affordably priced inventory is rapidly disappearing,” the report states. “Just three years ago, the idea of purchasing a single-family home in Jackson Hole for under $500,000 or a condo/townhome for under $300,000, was just a fleeting dream. Today, not only can this dream become a reality, but you also have multiple properties from which to choose, and loan interest rates are still at historic lows. We do not expect this opportunity to last.”
“We definitely saw increased interest in higher end properties as buyers have determined that asking prices today represent values that make it a good time to purchase a home in Jackson Hole,” Liebzeit said.
Value stabilization
“The losses experienced in 2011 appear to be less than has been experienced in previous years,” Cornish wrote in a 14-page report released Tuesday. “Furthermore, there is evidence that many market segments began to experience value stabilization in mid-2011.”
http://www.jhpropertyguide.com/jackson-hole-real-estate-news/621/
Windows Reveal the True Housing Market.
By Robbie Whelan
February 10, 2012, 12:55 PM.
ORLANDO — Maybe the clearest way to look at the housing market is through a nice glass window.
Susan Marvin, president of Marvin Windows and Doors, a small, privately held family company based in Warroad, Minn., wants to believe that the housing market is improving, but the numbers say otherwise.
Housing starts and permits are at or near all-time lows. So are new-home sales. Existing-home sales, while improving, remain at near-historic lows. These are the reasons why Ms. Marvin’s company projects that 2012 will be a flat year for the window business, no better than last year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2012/02/10/windows-reveal-the-true-housing-market/ - 106k
I’ve heard rumors that there’s a remodeling boom in the DC area, as people realize that the cash they’ve saved up is not enough to trade up, but enough to improve what they live in now. The annual Home and Garden show is coming up in less than a month, and I’m going to go check it out to see if remodeling is hot or not.
The “remodeling boom” around here is being driven by the realwhores telling people that unless a place has new paint, new carpet and new granite countertops, a sale ain’t gonna happen..
I thought new energy efficient windows for existing buildings were part of the stimulus, paid for by tax breaks. I’d have installed them but I already had double-paned windows in every opening.
They tax credit is so small vs the price of window plus install as to be a marginal advantage of replacing, not a decision maker. I think it was better in 2010.
The tax credit is 10% of the purchase price of the installed windows, doors and skylights (excluding installation cost) up to a maximum of $500, of which up to $200 can be claimed for windows and skylights.
Slim’s here to say that the Ranch has nice, new windows. And, yes, they’re much less drafty than the old ones.
But, when it comes to saving energy, here’s the deal: The most powerful energy-saving device you have is the on-off switch. As in, turn off the lights. Shut off that furnace (for a while) unless you really need to heat your house like the tropics.
I could go on, but you get the point.
In your climate, it’s the on-off switch that controls the A/C that determines how much you spend on energy.
In your climate, it’s the on-off switch that controls the A/C that determines how much you spend on energy.
I don’t have air conditioning, I have a swamp cooler. With an on-off switch. Thing stays off unless it’s at least 85 degrees in the house. Then I turn it on.
yikes!! 85 degrees IN the house is suffering. To each his own.
You have no air conditioning at all? Don’t those swamp coolers stop working during monsoon season?
the monsoon does the cooling, well at least it does at altitude not sure about the low desert.
Pimco: Foreclosure Deal Cheaper Than Pensions
The government’s deal with banks over their foreclosure practices after 16 months of investigations is cheap for the loan servicers while costly for bond investors including pension funds, according to Pacific Investment Management Co.’s Scott Simon.
“This was a relatively cheap resolution for the banks,” said Simon, the mortgage head at Pimco, which runs the world’s largest bond fund. “A lot of the principal reductions would have happened on their loans anyway, and they’re using other people’s money to pay for a ton of this. Pension funds, 401(k)s and mutual funds are going to pick up a lot of the load
“Think about this, you tell your kid, ‘You did something bad, I’m going to fine you $10, but if you can steal $22 from your mom, you can pay me with that,’” Simon said yesterday in a telephone interview from Newport Beach, California.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-10/pimco-says-foreclosure-deal-cheap-for-banks-costly-for-pension-investors.html
“Think about this, you tell your kid, ‘You did something bad, I’m going to fine you $10, but if you can steal $22 from your mom, you can pay me with that,’”
Eyes keep tellin’ ya … they.are.$mart!
Yepper$, $mart is they!
(Should eyes mention that they can run fa$t, even in the dark and have really good “legal helper$”?)
“Pension funds, 401(k)s and mutual funds are going to pick up a lot of the load”
Despite the misleading headlines, I never believed Megabank, Inc was good for the $25bn tab.
Of course the owners of the companies will bear the brunt of the penalties. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
Now, if this angers the owners, then they should fire the top execs responsible for the acts that led to the penalties.
Despite the misleading headlines, I never believed Megabank, Inc was good for the $25bn tab.
I’ve read that the cash payments to states & feds is more like $5B.
In other words, it is more like “I’m going to fine you $25, but it’s ok if you pay me $5 and steal $20 from your mom’s purse.”
“Pension funds, 401(k)s and mutual funds are going to pick up a lot of the load”
Now imagine Social Security being included.
Plus one. You hear more about that the more the stock market is overpriced, and the more Wall Street is looking for someone to whom the rich can sell their positions. When stock prices are low, they aren’t interested in having Social Security pick up bargains, and the talk goes away.
It’s a start.
California Teacher Pension Fund Reports on Say-On-Pay Voting
CalSTRS surveyed say-on-pay votes at 2,166 companies from January 3 through June 30, 2011. The fund voted against 23 percent of the compensation schemes in the lot.
What caught their attention? “We not only looked at the alignment between pay practices and the performance of the companies, but also corporate peer groups, problematic pay practices, and disclosures,” according to the report.
When companies select their own peer groups against which to measure their own compensation schemes, the process can be challenging, the report acknowledges, owing to the “lack of a widely accepted standard to establish peer groups.”
Still, CalSTRS finds the peer benchmarking process problematic. In some cases, companies don’t disclose their rationale for comparing themselves to certain peers, and in other instances the justification proves “unacceptable” because the peer group is too large, or the companies in the group appear to be mismatched. “Problems with peer groups can be addressed with more thorough disclosure,” the report states.
CalSTRS also voted “no” in response to what it saw as “problematic pay practices,” including “tax gross-ups, excessive prerequisites, supplemental executive retirement benefits, and severance pay,” according to the report.
Pay ratios between the CEO and other C-suite executives also raised red flags for CalSTRS. At most companies, the fund found that the chief executive officer earned two to three times that of other named executive officers. “A ratio over 3 causes us to question the board’s succession plan, the internal culture of the company, and the CEO’s influence over the board,” the report says.
http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1202541883044&California_Teacher_Pension_Fund_Reports_on_SayOnPay_Voting
All theys had to do was look, it was right there the whole time$, right-in-front-of-their-clo$ed-eye$:
“problematic pay practice$,” including “tax gross-up$, exce$$ive prerequisite$, $upplemental executive retirement benefit$, and $everance pay,”
Mortgage settlement is great — for politicians and banks
There certainly are some big winners in the deal, which has the approval of 49 of the 50 state attorneys general. Start with its godfathers. President Obama took to the podium a couple of hours after the deal’s announcement to declare that it will “speed relief to the hardest-hit homeowners.”
Then there are the banks. The signatories to the deal are Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase and Ally Financial (formerly GMAC), which handle payments on more than half the nation’s outstanding 27 million home loans and therefore have been at the center of the servicing and foreclosure abuses the settlement is supposed to end.
If you don’t listen too closely, it sounds as if they’re putting up the $25 billion. Not so. The only cold cash the banks are paying is a combined $5 billion, including $1.5 billion to compensate borrowers whose homes were foreclosed on from 2008 through the end of last year, with the rest going to the federal and state governments to pay for regulatory programs.
Most of the balance is in mortgage relief for stressed or underwater mortgage holders, including principal reductions, refinancings and other modifications.
How much of this will translate into an outlay of cash by the five banks? Not much, if any.
Consequently, as mortgage expert Adam Levitin of Georgetown Law School observes, most of the settlement “is being financed on the dime of MBS [mortgage-backed securities] investors such as pension funds, 401(k) plans, insurance companies and the like — parties that did not themselves engage in any of the wrongdoing covered by the settlement.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-hiltzik-20120212,0,7852934.column - 191k -
What part of banks own our government does anybody not understand?
What part of “the more money you take from people to support the housing market, the less affordable it becomes” does anybody not understand?
“$1.5 billion to compensate borrowers whose homes were foreclosed”
This little crumb interests me more than the bank recycling funds back to themselves and their cronies in the government. How many former deadbeats will qualify for a bonus check? How many will they find? Who gets to keep the unspent funds from this program? Will pallets of $100 bills go missing?
Sounds like FBs who “lost” their homes are gettin’ free iPads.
What part of ‘the owners of the companies at fault taking the hit’ do people have a problem with?
Mortgage settlement is great — for politicians and banks
Not to mention that the politicians and the banks just gift-wrapped an issue for the Occupy movement. Expect to see some very interesting protests in the months to come.
The 13th i always had luck on this day…
good or bad?
In Spanish speaking countries, Tuesday the 13th is the bad luck day.
In Spanish speaking countries, Tuesday the 13th is the bad luck day.
So that’s one day a year I’m glad Brazil speaks Portuguese instead of Spanish.
(Portuguese is Very Difficult)
(Portuguese is Very Difficult)
While it is similar gramatically to Spanish, it sounds bewildering to Spanish ears. I find that I can read and understand most Portuguese text, but if listening to someone speak it … fuggedaboutit!
While it is similar gramatically to Spanish, it sounds bewildering to Spanish ears.
Very true. I’ve said for years that I’m sure many linguistic grad dissertations have covered this. Brazilians can understand about 50% of spoken Spanish but Spanish speakers maybe 10% of spoken Portuguese. (As you say, written Portuguese is more similar to Spanish than the spoken Portuguese) Most of this lies in the Portuguese pronunciation. (sounds not involved in Spanish or English) Spanish is also more staccato and has greater separation in the sounds and words whereas Portuguese is more like a flowing river of those crazy sounds that English and Spanish does not have. Add to this that spoken Portuguese is so complicated that half the people here don’t even speak it correctly. (So I’m told) I don’t even want to talk about the slang not covered in any book.
Yeah, it sounds like a buzzing sound to me. Quite the opposite of crisp Spanish or Italian.
First post?
My list of signs we’re not at a housing bottom:
1) Median after tax income not rising (in fact its been dropping for decades). Can’t squeeze blood from a rock, if my dad had the inflation adjusted equivalent of $150K/yr at my age, and my income PLUS my wife struggles to barely exceed $100K/yr then my house will be only about 2/3 the cost of his at the same age. My son will be lucky to ever earn $50K/yr, and as a somewhat above median dude that means he will live in a somewhat above median house, and the price of that house WILL be affordable at $50K/yr … Looking for a rising tide in a “decline and fall of the X empire” scenario is futile.
2) Unemployment rate is a meaningless political construct, so look at the percentage of the population gainfully employed … which is at multi-decade record lows. From memory we’re headed back to the 70s, with on average only one wage earner per family, etc.
3) Low interest loan rate = high price, and vice versa. We are at multi-generational record low interest rates, which means we are currently at multi-generational record high house prices. Buying at “0%” means guaranteed bankruptcy filing when rates return to normal, or means you’re immobile for almost the entire term of the mortgage, which is career suicide, meaning unemployment, meaning bankruptcy filing anyway.
4) The herd is being herded. If the herd were headed the “correct direction”, our owners would not be wasting effort trying to redirect us. Its self evident that every penny of marketing effort spent to convince us we’re at a housing bottom is, in itself, a monetary vote that we are not at a housing bottom.
5) Political corruption on the large scale seems to be increasing, which depresses home prices. This is self evident on the small city/neighborhood scale, no reason to think it would not apply on the large scale. Essentially every dollar spent on a house is a vote in support of the local, state, and federal govt. Do I really trust those crooks to the tune of a fraction of a million dollars? No, no, oh heck no.
Can anyone come up with other indicators of future home price declines? I wonder if I’m missing any other effects. Are there any long term reasons for housing price appreciation assuming constant value dollars (or express the cost of a house in oz of gold, etc?)
Never been to waukesha, but eyes wonder if the good folks there know how lucky they are to have a guy named “vinceinwaukesha” amblin’ around their city streets.
“No, no, oh heck no.”
Now there’s a u$eful quote eyes must say!
“1) Median after tax income not rising (in fact its been dropping for decades). ”
This is exactly the reason that the government is (IMHO) trying to spark inflation. “Real” wages don’t go up, but, suddenly, debt service is much more manageable.
I agree with everything in your post, but, don’t underestimate the impact of inflation on your thesis.
I was kinda considering inflation. Thought experiment. Mint prints megabucks and INTERNALLY we all add one zero to the end of everything… income, expenses.
First we all become “rich” according to the tax code. I am poorer than my father at my age in all measurable non-financial ways, despite both my wife and I working instead of just him, but my income is high enough that I already need to file 1040 because above $100K and I need to worry about AMT (hasn’t hit me yet, but its inevitable…). I would imagine taxation yet gets more burdensome above $1M year income.
The real killer is external not internal. Lets say we wipe out the Chinese bond holders by printing money. Now no one wants our bonds except at crazy low price/high interest rate. I would love to watch the first t-bill sale after 10x inflation… my guess is we’d go from $999.98 or whatever it is now per $1000 bill, to something around $90 per $1000 bill. So now the govt borrows at “Greek like” interest rates. That’s a major hit to home-moaners because the houses were purchased around 0% interest rate and now they’re valued at a loan sharky 1000% mortgage rate. I can’t find an online calculator that allows rates of 1000% to be input… often they error out at 50% or believe it or not I found one that errored out at only 20%. Someday (soon?) some javascript contractor is going to make a small contract fixing that kind of thing. Given $1300/month, at 1000% interest rate and 30 yr fixed how much house can I afford?
Another external hit from inflation. We add a single zero to the end of our prices. Our completely unamused creditors force our imports to gain two zeros to get even. Suddenly the entire walmart store adds two zeros to every price but my wage only goes up one decimal point. Whoops. Also going from $30s/hr for me and wife to $300s/hr sounds cool, but gasoline just went from $3.50/gallon to $350/gallon. Whoops. Suddenly a “very well off white collar family” cannot afford to fill the gas tank. I burn between one and two gallons every working day, lets call it about 5 quarts (about 40 miles round trip). I used to earn my gas money in a coffee break, now it takes a good fraction of the morning to earn the gas money to get me to and from work.
“I burn between one and two gallons every working day”
Where I work on any given day half of the offices are empty as their occupants are working from home. Of course, not everyone can do that. Hyper-expenisove fuel might accelerate this trend.
When I was back in PA visiting the folks, Mom and I went out on errands, oh, about every other day.
On one excursion, we went past an office complex that’s just down the road from QVC. You know them. They’re the Home Shopping Network.
Any-hoo, the office buildings facing the road are see-through. As in, empty. And the “for lease” signs aren’t holding up very well.
Mom told me that these building have been empty for quite some time.
When I meant “empty” I meant that the occupants are out of office. I would say that on average my coworkers work at home half the time. Personally, I like to come into the office (way too many distractions at home, and that includes the fridge). Of course if gas went to say $10/gallon I might choose to work at home too.
Many of the Feds here telecommute one day per week. Us contractors are not permitted to telecommute.
Mgmt at my last two jobs were against telecommuting.
I think they were very worried thier jobs might go away with no workers in the office.
Mgmt at my last two jobs were against telecommuting.
I think they were very worried thier jobs might go away with no workers in the office.
I can recall the same mentality when I worked in my last full-time job. I did the sort of work that could have been done in a lot of places, not just an office. Yet I was still expected to be there every day.
Sigh.
9/80 type schedules are no good if there’s labwork involved.
Since WWII world populations have more than doubled. 7 billion heading to 9 billion by 2050. The supply of most foods, energy and commodities have not quite kept up if you consider the distribution has been skewed to western economies. It’s very hard to do but try to calculate the impact of the relentless pace of technological advancements and scientific discoveries and things are not so bleak. What will be the next big thing like the internet in the 1990’s?
Our completely unamused creditors force our imports to gain two zeros to get even. Suddenly the entire walmart store adds two zeros to every price but my wage only goes up one decimal point. ‘
lower standard of living dead ahead
“the government is (IMHO) trying to spark inflation.”
It is not that complex. Wages are not going up and the Fed is working very hard. The price of food is going up, so it is harder to service debt, not easier. You have less discretionary money, not more.
Do you mean that the houses are too expensive?
It was 6 years to the bottom of the Saving & Loan disaster.
When does the timer start in either case? (My thinking: 1989 versus 2006). At any rate, housing did not bottom out in CA until 1996 or so — seven years down by my reckoning. And this bubble was bigger, plus there were many more efforts to prop it up, so far as I am aware, suggesting this time is different: it will take much longer for it to wind down.
in1992-1995 my $30/hr job, 60 hr/week, was enough to buy a work truck for cash and also buy a house in Santa Barbara. I was not speculating, just wanted cheaper rent in a college town on desirable coastline.
Due to fortunate timing on my part, and a house that had seperate quarters for me(granny flat). That 400 square feet above the garage was good enough for me to raise two kids I for the first 5 yrs of their lives. I guess I was a minimalist.
Then I was astounded to learn by 2004 that my completely deteriorated crudshack was worth close to a million. We sold out and moved to Oregon, because the deferred maintainance of my cash cow was gonna slay it. Cracked foundation, toxic mold, tree roots in the sewer line and up the toilet and into the attic, new roof, new driveway, new fence. All that crud was accepted by the Russian buyer(we did have to pay 10k for toxic mold mediation) due to the manic phase. I heard they put 300k into the home and sold in 2007 for the same 860k they paid us for it. But I was lucky and not an expert market timer, getting in at the bottom and selling at the top.
By then I was sold on the real estate, and purchased two homes in Oregon for cash, one to live in and one to rent out. Sold those after one year in 2006 because both had gained 100k in value. Then there was the idiotic purchase of a Utah home in 2006 or another inflated Oregon home w/ a mortgage in wife’s name; both were 400k houses. Market timer extrodinaire; I had become the loathed speculator when I had got into the market in the first place for a roof over my head.
So happy the burns on our speculation allow us to at least have one paid off home that provides some income because, even with the addition of a professional license(teaching) to my name, now I make $20 per hour part time and wife makes $10.
Hopefully rents will stay high, my meds will go generic, and we get to hold on to our home(only for my own myopic interests) after the clump dump that is going to occur when Fannie and Freddie unload their inventory on investors.
So I was a real lucky ducky before becoming a Lucky Ducky.
That makes me a scumbag in some of your eyes; so be it, I do have to consider my family. We foreclosed on one of our 6 homes cuz it was going to break the bank. Just sorry we made payments as long as we did.
The person that bought our condo in 2006 for 350k never made a payment, put 0 down, had us pay the closing costs, and held that house for two years before being foreclosed upon. Now THAT is scumbag speculation in my opinion. We only held a mortgage on my first home and home number 5; sort of a bell shaped curve of our investments.
I forget, Blue Skye might know, when defaming ones character in print (insinuating Muggy put blow or something in his coffee); is that slander or libel? Or just an acceptable ad hominem attack?
Don’t be silly, I was thinking drain cleaner. What’s it called when you make up sht and then ridicule people for it?
What’s it called when you make up sht and then ridicule people for it?
I call it right-wing-convenient-anecdotal-evidence syndrome.
‘I was behind this one in line, talking on his iphone, buying steaks and cupcakes with his SNAP…it’s all such a waste.’
Don’t be silly, I was thinking drain cleaner. What’s it called when you make up sht and then ridicule people for it?
Funny, Blue—I assumed that you meant cocaine…
My fault then. Muggy is my friend though. I was thinking he was caustic, not psycho.
I was thinking he was caustic, not psycho.
Makes sense now that you explain it… Sorry I was slow on the up-take.
“I forget, Blue Skye might know, when defaming ones character in print (insinuating Muggy put blow or something in his coffee); is that slander or libel? Or just an acceptable ad hominem attack?”
Way over the top, dude. This is so far from slander/libel… I took it as a sightly over-reactive yet friendly jab.
Hey man, this here blog is as good and as bad as any Thanksgiving family dinner.
Meant it less seriously as it probably sounded. Sorry. Joke’s on me! People saying mean sounding stuff on the internet strikes a nerve as my daughter has been subjected to some cyberbullying and she was actually hurt from it. It too, came from her friends making friendly jabs.
It did not sound like you all were exchanging friendly jabs; but I wouldn’t wanna come between your friendly relationship.
Feel free to go back to your Drano. I’m just happy that I got to use spiffy sounding term (ad-hominen); that’s enough for me. And that is the kind of attack that I could do without from my “friends”, as it does not constructively add to the argument/debate. Someone could feel bad as a result; I know when FPSS told me I would be living under a bridge it hurt a bit. Nor does FPSS know the full story on any of us; only what we choose to reveal.
If not on stable footing, cyber-bullies can ruin someone’s life. And you have been saying you are at your wit’s end on multiple fronts. But if its all good by you, fine and dandy.
Funny, the way Blue Skye first put it regarding white powder in your drink, I was not the only one to think of stimulants versus BS’s “caustic” angle, which sounds improbable at best. And more like back pedaling away from an irresponsible remark.
The answer is all in the stuffing.
“I’m just happy that I got to use spiffy sounding term (ad-hominen); that’s enough for me.”
You’ve never called a friend an a-hole or crackhead?
You caught me! Of course I do(call my friends silly names in jest). But about the kids: The latest at school is saying “Thats so gay”. Also “that’s what she said”. On the one hand, hilarious in its place. But it may have an impact on actual gay people so we try and explain the unintended consequenses of thoughtless words.
And debate is fun, so like I said, you can go back to you Drano now. I am not bothered if you aren’t.
Why was it 6 years and not 5 or 7? Not asking rhetorically, genuine question.
My guess is that is somehow related to bankruptcy law. Have the majority of bankruptcies gone thru the system and aged out so as to no longer be financially relevant? My guess is no, in fact its barely started. That would imply we’ve got to wait until at bare minimum around 2020.
We live in a nearly completely centrally controlled command economy, so the feds could simply retroactively modify bankruptcy law so its illegal to discriminate on bankruptcies older than one year. That could pull the recovery much closer. Have to factor that into the scenario. This is assuming bankruptcy law was the cause of the 6 year S and L bottom, which I am not convinced of.
They Feds don’t even need to do that. In their zeal for new debtors the Banksters could simply choose to disregard BK’s when making new loans. After all, a post BK wannabe mortgage borrower has next to no debt load, other than student loans and the car payments (which they had to continue to make to keep the cars).
Our friends who have a mortgage on their motorhome(duh, we bought a trailer for 3k), just cashed out their paid for truck to pay bills and now also have a car loan on the replacement vehicle. Is that called kicking the can down the road?
He is a heavy equipment operator/mechanic working for the city and she works in the long established family business housing pets. But its not enough.
They are so far underwater on their MOTORHOME that they can not afford to sell it! They paid as much or more for that 40 foot beast as we did for our house (still very cool people, though). Oops!
Congratulations - you’ve just described the RV industry.
In a nutshell, persuade someone into paying monthly payments on an item that depreciates by 50% upon purchase, burns hundreds of dollars of gasoline in a day or requires purchase of an expensive gas-guzzing vehicle to pull it, all the while forcing the debtor to stay in overpriced campgrounds charging $30+/night for the right to park, have lights/water, and dump the crapper if necessary.
RV’s were great 30 years ago when they were cheap, gas was cheap, and campgrounds were cheap. Now they’re just a suckers game.
RV’s just for suckers?
We’ve been coach owners for decades. Our
first was a Bluebird Wanderlodge with a 500 hp Detroit diesel and a 300 gallon tank. Our
latest was a Country Coach that originally cost
$400k+.
We never buy new, it takes two years to work all the kinks out of a new coach. We never buy from a dealer and never pay asking price.
We paid $70k less than BB on our 2005 CC that we took on a summer cross country trip. We ate “in”, sleep in our own bed,
spent the night at a lot of Wallyworlds, and
boondoggled a lot.
We didn’t pay for fast or restaurant food,
didn’t pay for motels with bed bugs, didn’t,
for the most part, use RV parks, and we took both our pups with us. We averaged
8.8 mpg and pulled our jeep.
When we got home, I put it on the market and had it sold in less than a month for the
same price we had paid for it.
If we had driven a car, it would have cost us
more, been much less comfortable, and
probably be filing for a divorce.
Like a lot of things, knowing how to do it right makes a huge difference in how much
enjoyment you get for the buck spent.
Congratulations - you’ve just described the RV industry.
+1 I never understood the RV thing.
spent the night at a lot of Wallyworlds
Sounds like fun.
a 300 gallon tank
Wow.
“spent the night at a lot of Wallyworlds”
Walmart actually encourages people to do that. Don’t try it in Steamboat Springs. City ordinance doesn’t allow it, I believe because there are no hook ups in the parking lot.
It’s your rolling home, you take what you want
and leave the rest. Four summers ago we took our coach and headed north to Yellowknife, NorthWest Territories, home of the Great Slave lake. A town built on gold,
now living on diamonds. Then we went back
to Dawson and over to Fairbanks, Anchorage,
Homer, and home. We saw and experienced
the wonder of unexpected beauty and spectacular vistas. I would feel really sorry
for the idiot that would do that in a car.
A 8 week, 9,000 mile odyssey that we’re grateful we did.
A 8 week, 9,000 mile odyssey
Sounds awesome to me.
A 8 week, 9,000 mile odyssey that we’re grateful we did.
I had a plan to do that about 10 years ago. Goal was to road trip from Chicago, across the midwest over to Seattle, then up through BC all the way to Alaska. A month in Alaska, then drive back down. 3 month trip total, was the plan.
Sadly, we made it as far as Seattle and the trip fell apart. I still wonder how I (and my life) might be different if that had actually worked out.
Sadly, we made it as far as Seattle and the trip fell apart. I still wonder how I (and my life) might be different if that had actually worked out.
Sounds like a tale for over a beer, drummin!
I love road trips as much as anyone, and take them quite often, but I prefer doing them in a nice car, and staying in a hotel in-town, or in a scenic area, rather than driving a bus to a Wal-Mart parking lot. But to each his own. I like pooping into water.
I have never seen a bed bug and find it easier to fly or drive and stay in resorts than big ol RV’s, but I get off the beaten path. If I want to camp, I camp.
Rv parks are awful! Crowded with kooks running their generators all night so they can watch TV in the “great outdoors.” KOA - kooks all around
I think Walmart put the kibosh on RV’s in the parking lot after too many of them took the opportunity to dump their waste in the parking lot.
6 is just an average. In some places it was 5 in others 7. for most places it was 6.
It’s not important that it be precise. It was more than 5 and less than 10, but most historian have agreed on 6.
I was there and 6 works for me as well.
“and the price of that house WILL be affordable at $50K/yr … ”
And by the time your son can afford that house, it will be 10 years older and will need more $$ in maintenance than in mortgage, as you yourself said above.
Your son better get used to living in attached product (condo,townhome,patio condo,what-have-you), because that’s all they’ve built in the past 15 years.
Greece has agreed to austerity! Now, I forget, is this the fourth or fifth time?
Some folks can not bungi-jump just once… similar to the one’s who can’t just eat x1 Lay’s potato chip.
Or one of mom’s butterscotch toll house cookies… with a little (a lot) added “scotch”….
Maybe we can now have an Austerity Bubble.
Peak austerity!
Which Greeks? I assume not the ones tossing Malotov cocktails in the streets…
The ones that Germany appointed to run the country.
Greek Parliament Passes Austerity Plan After Riots Rage
Milos Bicanski/Getty Images
Employees surveyed damage to a bank Monday morning after violent protests in Athens on Sunday over austerity measures passed by the Greek parliament.
By NIKI KITSANTONIS and RACHEL DONADIO
Published: February 12, 2012
ATHENS — After violent protests left dozens of buildings aflame in Athens, the Greek Parliament voted early on Monday to approve a package of harsh austerity measures demanded by the country’s foreign lenders in exchange for new loans to keep Greece from defaulting on its debt.
People looked at a building set afire by anti-austerity protesters in Athens on Sunday.
Though it came after days of intense debate and the resignation of several ministers in protest, in the end the vote on the austerity measures was not close: 199 in favor and 74 opposed, with 27 abstentions or blank ballots. The Parliament also gave the government the authority to sign a new loan agreement with the foreign lenders and approve a broader arrangement to reduce the amount Greece must repay to its bondholders.
The new austerity measures include, among others, a 22 percent cut in the benchmark minimum wage and 150,000 government layoffs by 2015 — a bitter prospect in a country ravaged by five years of recession and with unemployment at 21 percent and rising.
But the chaos on the streets of Athens, where more than 80,000 people turned out to protest on Sunday, and in other cities across Greece reflected a growing dread — certainly among Greeks, but also among economists and perhaps even European officials — that the sharp belt-tightening and the bailout money it brings will still not be enough to keep the country from going over a precipice.
Angry protesters in the capital threw rocks at the police, who fired back with tear gas. After nightfall, demonstrators threw Molotov cocktails, setting fire to more than 40 buildings, including a historic theater in downtown Athens, the worst damage in the city since May 2010, when three people were killed when protesters firebombed a bank. There were clashes in Salonika in the north, Patra in the west, Volos in central Greece, and on the islands of Crete and Corfu.
Greece and its foreign lenders are locked in a dangerous brinkmanship over the future of the nation and the euro. Until recently, a Greek default and exit from the euro zone was seen as unthinkable. Now, though experts say that the European Union is not prepared for a default and does not want one, the dynamic has shifted from trying to save Greece to trying to contain the damage if it turns out to be unsalvageable.
…
I seem to recall that Argentina also went through the throes of austerity and the ensuing riots, until it threw in the towel and defaulted. Will history repeat itself in Greece?
Didn’t Samaras just said that the deal is only for few months. If he’s elected in April, he will seek to change it.
Didn’t Samaras just said that the deal is only for few months. If he’s elected in April, he will seek to change it.
Raising taxes and lowering wages?
And that will improve the economy??
Bailouts: Proudly Preventing Austerity since 2008
Bailouts: Proudly Preventing Austerity since 2008
Preventing austerity for whom? On a macro level we don’t know if the bailouts have prevented austerity for the American/European public do we? What we do know are two things.
1. Most Americans are living a more austere life now than before the bailouts.
2. The banks and Wall Street were bailed out from facing any of their deserved austerity.
So again, bailouts preventing austerity for whom?
“Most Americans are living a more austere life now than before the bailouts.”
Oh yes, and it’s not just the Lucky Duckies.
Wouldn’t know it around here. Little has changed at all - people are back to spending at the high end shops, restraurants, etc. The only visible sign I can see is more smaller cars and less expensive SUVs, resulting in lower payment/usage costs.
Let them eat i-pads.
The only visible sign I can see is more smaller cars and less expensive SUVs
Don’t forget that car sales are still down 40% from the peak. So in addition to fewer cars they are selling less expensive cars than before. That sounds like austerity (at a national level) to me. I’m sure there are pockets where the new cars sell briskley and the restaurants are packed, buit it isnn’t virtually everywhere like it used to be.
Little has changed at all - people are back to spending at the high end shops, restraurants, etc.
Not out here.
We went out to eat at 6:30 PM on Saturday night. There was a 5 minute wait (at Mimi’s Cafe). By the time we left, around 7:30 PM the place was half empty. 5 years ago there would have been at least a 40 minute wait and there would have been people standing in line as we left an hour later.
There are places going gangbusters. Mainly where the few with any disposable income hand out.
Then there are places like around here, where even the Taco John’s are closing, due to lack of business. Along with all of the “locally owned” places, other than the armpit-sports bars with a regular clientele.
You know things are bad when “Golden Corral” is voted “Best Steak Restaurant” by the locals.
Or most of the car dealers, who are stocking a minimal number of new cars, and stocking up on “program cars”, or the cars they used to send to the auctions/wholesalers (you used to NEVER see a car with over 80K miles on it on the new dealer lots around here. Now the cutoff seems to be 150K, and many are opening lots with the “Nothing over $5,000″ banner over the entrance).
Went on two roadtrips for funerals last week. Traffic is way down on I-35, all the way to DFW. Especially trucks. A lot of it is going by rail now, but that doesn’t explain the lack of traffic between OKC and DFW.
Road construction on I-35 between Austin and Hillsboro has a lot of people using alternate routes.
You know things are bad when “Golden Corral” is voted “Best Steak Restaurant” by the locals.
Wow…
So again, bailouts preventing austerity for whom?
They certainly prevented austerity for banksters…
Politicians, government workers seem to be getting raises,and Parasites who live off of government handouts have never had it so good.
“…government workers seem to be getting raises…”
Posted at 06:26 PM ET, 02/02/2012
How a pay freeze affects federal workers | Federal Buzz
By Ryan Kellett
Rep. Sean Duffy ( R-Wisc.) sponsored the measure that would freeze federal and congressional pay for a third year. (Harry Hamburg - AP)
House lawmakers voted Wednesday night to freeze the pay and salaries of congressional staffers and civilian federal employees. If passed in the Senate, the proposal would extend the current two-year cost-of-living raises for an additional year starting next January.
Each week we ask federal workers to share their response to a question of the week. This week: What do you make of the congressional Republicans’ proposal to freeze federal salaries? How would it affect you?
Below, federal workers weigh in:
“I have worked for the federal government for 30 years. To say that federal employees make more than the private sector is not true, as I took a big cut in pay to come to work for the government. We have already had a two-year federal pay freeze. You continually take away from federal employees as cost of living keeps going up. It is a big financial burden for me as my wife has been laid off from a job she held for 25 years because the company sent the work overseas and she has been unable to find a comparable job.” — Mark Thompson, Tinker Air Force Materiel Command
…
VOD: Victim of the Day CASTELLI JOSEPH A. 4 years and counting of freeeee livin. Now Joey did put $100k of extracted equity down from his PINELANDS N. B4 L2 investment (many refis from that property) which I am sure he has rented out while he has faithfully paid the mortgage. But in the end he took all that back out of the Tequesta home and $150k+ in spending equity. Get Joey on camera like my main beat from last week Daniel Cianciotto who hasn`t made a mortgage payment in 5 years on his $640k 2006 purchase and he would probably make the same comment on the $25 billion settlement over foreclosure abuses.
“I’m very disappointed. It’s a slap on the hand for the banks.”
“It’s a sellout, it’s a sellout by the government. They shouldn’t be doing that at all.”
“$2,000 for a home or a family, that they want to offer. A settlement? That’s absurd!”
Like I said “We got the Beats”
520 Cypress Cir Tequesta, FL 33469
House Size 2022 sq ft
Price $259,900
MLS ID R3217468
Added to Site August 11, 2011
Sales Information
Jul-2004 17351/1755 $345,000 WARRANTY DEED CASTELLI JOSEPH A
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/4/2004 14:33:44
CFN: 20040450943
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 17351/1756
Pages: 20
Consideration: $245,000.00
Party 1: CASTELLI JOSEPH A
CASTELLI CHRISTINE
Party 2: WORLD SAVINGS BANK FSB
Legal: CYPRESS RIDGE L14 L
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 5/10/2005 10:17:51
CFN: 20050279481
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 18545/222
Pages: 7
Consideration: $65,000.00
Party 1: CASTELLI JOSEPH A
CASTELLI CHRISTINE A
Party 2: WACHOVIA BANK NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
Legal: CYPRESS RIDGE L14 L
I really like the $325,000.00 on 8/6/2007 from JPMORGAN CHASE BANK and $120,000.00 on 8/8/2007 from BANKATLANTIC. Joey got skills.
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/6/2007 10:32:29
CFN: 20070374818
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 22001/536
Pages: 17
Consideration: $325,000.00
Party 1: CASTELLI JOSEPH A
CASTELLI CHRISTINE
Party 2: JPMORGAN CHASE BANK NA
Legal: CYPRESS RIDGE L14 L
Type: MTG
Date/Time: 8/8/2007 11:22:47
CFN: 20070380816
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 22009/1393
Pages: 6
Consideration: $120,000.00
Party 1: CASTELLI JOSEPH A
CASTELLI CHRISTINE A
Party 2: BANKATLANTIC
Legal: CYPRESS RIDGE L14 L
Type: LP
Date/Time: 3/10/2009 13:53:34
CFN: 20090080229
Book Type: O
Book/Page: 23117/1597
Pages: 1
Consideration: $0.00
Party 1: CHASE HOME FINANCE LLC
Party 2: CASTELLI JOSEPH A
BANKATLANTIC
CASTELLI CHRISTINE
CASTELLI SPOUSE
Legal: CYPRESS RIDGE L14 L
lendingtree commercial - YouTube
4 Nov 2006 … “I’m in debt up to my eyeballs”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5EP9StlVA - 132k - Cached - Similar pages
That`s me playing the piano music in this commercial.
Somebody help me.
“You choose the loan that`s right for you”
Looks like a lot of people chose the loan they didn`t have to pay back.
Looks like a lot of people chose the loan they didn`t have to pay back.
LOL… Good one, jeff!
Good ol’ Stanley Johnson. Of course the commercial didn’t advise him to scale back his lifestyle. He was told he could keep living beyond his means if he used his house as an ATM.
When I saw that commerical my first thought was: he’ll never pay it back. Which if course is what the banksters want, for us to be in perpetual debt to them, handing over a large portion of our income to them in the form of interest payments until we drop dead.
Too bad that many people are beating down the door to do just that. Both business and personal loans.
It’s lately the “weak recovery” problem of “the banks aren’t giving enough loans”. If I was a banker, I wouldn’t lend any money to another dog-biscuit store either.
A dog biscuit store? Yeesh!
Whatsamatter with buying Milk Bones in the supermarket?
“We Got The Beat”
See the people living on my street
Livin free and goin out to eat
They don’t know just where they gonna go
And they say it`s a crime
We got the Beats
We got the Beats
We got the Beats, yeah
We got the Beats
See the kids just getting out of school
Goin home and hangin by the pool
Hang around ’til quarter after twelve
And then they find
Their folks are Beats
Their folks are Beats
Their folks are Beats, yeah
Their folks are Beats
Bail out money really makes em dance
Hardest Hit just put em in a trance
Give us cash so we can have a chance
Then we`ll fall in line
‘Cause we are the Beats
We are the Beats
We are the Beats, yeah
We got it
We got the Beats
We got the Beats
We got the Beats
Everybody get on your feet
We got the Beats
We know you can dance with the Beats
We got the Beats
Jumpin’, get down
We got the Beats
Round and round and round
We got the Beats
We got the Beats…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD1BWcf8vhE - 135k
Back from a trip to Disneyland.
Spend some time thinking about the question, “So, what do you want the result of all of this to be?’. Unshockingly, my opinion is unchanged from last week.
I have people whom I’ve raised… 28 with a 5y/o and a 6m/0, 25 due to give birth within a week or two, 21, almost 18 and almost 14. I do not want these people to have to live through a Greater Depression.
So, while I hold out very little hope that a depression is unavoidable, I still have to hope.
My wife has given up. She’s all like “Let’s get this started so that we can get it done with already.” While her point is valid, I still feel the ultimate outcome of collapse. France’s collapse didn’t go so well. Russian collapse didn’t go so well. And, of course, there is the German example. It seems that global powers going into revolution triggered by economic issues rarely, if ever, turns out well.
So, what is it you guys want? Are you looking forward to total economic meltdown? Would you like to try to avoid that? Have you given up hope that it is unavoidable and just want to get it started so that we can see what comes next?
‘what is it you guys want’
When it comes to economics, this is like asking what kind of weather do you want. Whatever is coming is mostly baked in the cake.
Sean Hannity says buy gold, dried food, identity theft protection and back up your hard drive. Glenn Beck says dig a bunker. Rush Limbaugh says buy chocolate covered strawberries. Tess Vigland says buy a house.
‘Unshockingly, my opinion is unchanged from last week’
No shock here, either.
I am busy digitizing navigation charts, making a float plan from Seneca Lake to Gerogian Bay and provisioning for a three month cruise. Some things have to be arranged well in advance, like coffee filters for the stove top percolator and body paints.
If Wall Street crashes while I’m gone, I don’t think I’ll hear it, and it sure won’t show up in my photographs!
body paints.
_Body_ paints??? I didn’t know it was that kind of cruise!
Most sailors worry about bottom paint, not body paints!
body paints.
Ummmm? Dare I ask?!
Landscape art, since we’ll be in such a beautiful place. Gotta have a theme.
Bottom paint…good one!
Hope you give a lot of time for the 30,000 islands in Georgian Bay. I think that area is excellent from the water. Are you getting there thru the Trent or the Welland Canal (Erie and Huron)?
Have you noticed how cheap the power boats are on Ebay?
This is for RAL -
“The average selling price over 2011 was up 7.5% - “today’s average sell price to $607,375″ - “volume up 8%”
this next part will drive you nuts - “experts are forcasting another strong year - with high demand”
“Real estate continues to be an excellent investment and of course a place to make fond memories and traditions”
“I once again out performed -” “my listings sold for 98.2% of the list price”
Yeah - this Oakville, Ontario broker sold a unit for me at less than 98% of the LP. I wonder what other parts of their letter is correct !
I plan on going up the Trent Severn from Lake Ontario, via Oswego River from NY. I know there won’t be nearly enough time. My First Mate gets just two months. I’ll likey pick her up in Kingston to stretch things. We’ve been cruising buddies for six years now, it is OK if we don’t see “it all” on this trip.
Blue
When you are on Rice Lake be very careful of a submerged railway line. There is only one way past it and that is thru the channel markers. It is very deceptive.
On the Trent north of Peterborough there is a very historic area that was flooded in the late 1800s to make part of the canal. It is where several thousand Indians fought one another (more than 5,000) in a battle that is rumoured to be the biggest Indian battle in North America. If you have dive equipment you might want to go down and see it - although I don’t know if they allow this anymore. A local dive shop can advise you.
I will be in the islands this summer for about three days.
The Trent is one of the best (and sometimes boring) canals I have been on.
‘what is it you guys want’
I want to learn what the definition of “money” really is.
I want to learn what the definition of “money” really is.
Last week wasn’t enough?
Any paper with dead presidents on them = Money
“I want to learn what the definition of “money” really is.”
“Eyes’ my not$ be able$ to define$ it, but eyes know it when eyes $ee$ it!” Hwy50i$m
[stolen from a Judge named $tewart]
‘know it when eyes $ee$ it’
The definition of money reminds me of what was once said; that the best beer in the world is the brand in your cooler.
“Sean Hannity says buy gold, dried food, identity theft protection and back up your hard drive. Glenn Beck says dig a bunker. ”
Right before the radio commercials with conveniently offer gold, dried food, identity theft protection and online hard-drive backups, I presume?
Hannity actually works these ads right into his show. Something like this:
‘This is the Stop Obama Express. This country won’t survive another 4 years of this president. We’ll be broke like Greece. The Iranians will nuke Israel and New York! That’s why I have food insurance from the good people at….’
I think everyone does these days. I was listening to some sports radio this morning on my way to work. The guy seamlessly connected his radio business with mozypro. Was it a testimonial or an advertisement? I couldn’t tell
(oh, and it’s beer 40, slow cookin’ in the kitchen, tanks for the reminder! [laughing like Julia's Child])
“‘This is the Stop Obama Express. This country won’t survive another 4 years of this president.”
How many Americans are stoopid enough to buy into this claptrap? I imagine, to my horror, quite a few.
How did yet another RNC troll find his way onto this board? Is this perhaps the reincarnation of EddieTard?
And to think that, on community radio, I can’t weave a word of the underwriting into my show. Nope, not at all.
I have to read the underwriting script exactly as it’s written, then move on to the public service announcement and read it the same way.
I can ad lib when I’m announcing songs just played and those coming up.
and online hard-drive backups
Yeah, I want to keep my sensitive data in the cloud. Not.
Tess Vigland says buy a house. Yeah, I’ve been kind of surprised how much Marketplace Money is choosing the “everything’s fine, just keep doing what you’ve always done” editorial stance. Seems like they used to be more willing to take a contrary stance, especially Chris Farrell.
I want more bailouts. I want this year to be bigger than last year when it comes to bailouts. Less reality, more bailouts please.
And you will get it.
This reminds me of my little brother who knowing he wasn’t going to get shot gun even if he called it first started calling for the middle of the back seat.
That’s funny, measton—sounds like acceptance. As a society, we have a long way to go in terms of coming to terms with diminished expectations.
“So, what is it you guys want?”
What did your wife say? I’ll have what she’s having. Like I said, I already have a three year head start.
I want to be able to order BBQ’ed Banker & Republicrat Ka-bobs from the menu.
Back from a trip to Disneyland.
You’ll find more reality there than in the business pages of the MSM.
Was it crowded? We’ve given up on going there because it always seems to be wall to wall people.
When I went there in November, it was crowded, but not moreso than any other theme park. It just seems more crowded than it is because so many rides load one car at a time, instead of 40 at a time rollercoaster-style. So the 30 minute wait is part of the experience.
I’m really hoping my kid doesn’t grow up to like Disney so I never have to go back. On the other hand, I’ve heard nothing but great things about DisneyWorld.
Pretty crowded, especially for off season. Hour wait for some rides, not that I generally wait that long. I go often enough that I know how to avoid most lines (like arrive before opening, max use of FastPass, etc.)
Anyway, my daughter and I did 36 attractions in 16 hours.
We were hoping to do half a dozen more, but ran out of time.
Conclusion: you can’t do everything in both parks in a single day, even a long day.
It seems that there is no longer such a thing as the “off season” at Disneyland. They sell lower priced annual passes to the locals that are only good during what used to be the off season.
February might be one of the slower times as it is perceived as “cold” by the locals. It can also rain. About 10 years ago we went in March and a storm moved in late in the afternoon. It was a cold and heavy rain and the park quickly emptied by 5PM. We hung in there until about 7PM. By then it was dark, wet (still raining) and chilly. I have never seen the place so empty, it was almost like having your own private theme park
True.
Disney has done its best to eliminate the off season. Now it is “peak” and “crowded but not as bad as peak”.
The amazing this is what they have done with park prices.
When I moved to AZ from CO and started going regularly again, a single day ticket prices.
From $10 in the early 80s, to $20 in mid-80s, to $30 in 1990, to $50 in 2000 to $87 today. My daughter and I added the hopper option so we could do both DL parks on the same day, which added $25 to $105 each.
Annual Passes have seen the same drastic increases. I got my first unlimited annual pass in 2003 for $200.
I switched from unlimited (premium) to one that blocks out the 50 peak days (deluxe) when the premium broke $300. in like 2006.
Now the premium is $500 and the deluxe is $380.
Those lower priced locals only annual passes with 150 blockout days are $270, and they introduced a new annual pass that has 195 block out days (every weekend, every holiday, spring break, all summer…) and it is now $200.
So, in less than a decade the unlimited went from $200 to $500. Or looking at it the other way, $200 used to get you unlimited and now $200 only gets you weekdays that most kids are in school.
And despite the DRASTIC price increases, the place is more crowded than ever.
And despite the DRASTIC price increases, the place is more crowded than ever.
Obviously they still aren’t charging enough…
And despite the DRASTIC price increases, the place is more crowded than ever.
Which is why we pretty much stopped going. And Disneyworld is even more expensive. At least in Disneyland you can walk across Harbor Blvd to get not so expensive eats. That doesn’t work in Orlando.
I read that there are about 1,000,000 Disneyland Anuual Passholders and that on any given day half the people in the parks are annual passholders.
And despite the DRASTIC price increases, the place is more crowded than ever.
Obviously they still aren’t charging enough…
————-
I actually think that’s a fair assessment considering that if I hadn’t been at Disneyland, I would have been at a college football game, where the bad tickets were $95.
Disneyland for 6 hours, vs a 4 hour game - Disneyland was a comparative bargain.
One of my major achievements in my parenting career (12 years and counting) is never having set foot in Disneyland. My kids can go, relatives or friends will take them, but to me it seems like one of Dante’s rings of Hell.
One of my major achievements in my parenting career (12 years and counting) is never having set foot in Disneyland. My kids can go, relatives or friends will take them, but to me it seems like one of Dante’s rings of Hell.
My parents never wanted to spend the money for the airfare to CA. Not to mention the admission price.
By the time Disney World opened, I no longer had any interest in anything related to Disney.
History says it’s unavoidable. ALL empires of ALL types eventually fail.
How bad it will be is another question. If it get’s too bad, look for WW3 with most of the world very pissed at…. us.
Stop being such a debbie downer with your Jimmy Carter sweater and malaise. It’s morning in America!
I think you misspelled mourning.
Oh, wait. It is half-time in America.
It is Jan 3, 1993 and we are the Oilers. The rest of the world? Yeah. They are the Bills.
I want to live to see the return of market principles (an unmanipulated market). If the only way that can happen is w/a collapse, so be it.
Markets have been and always will be, manipulated.
It’s the very definition.
Huh?!
Some risks are worth the rewards; others, not so much.
The Wall Street Journal
February 7, 2012, 2:30 PM
Bernanke: Fed Policy’s Encouragement of Risk Is by Design
By Michael S. Derby
Critics of the Federal Reserve‘s super easy money policy of recent years have long argued the tidal wave of liquidity will eventually generate a new round of bubbles that will bring fresh woe to the economy.
Recently retired Kansas City Fed President Thomas Hoenig was in the forefront of such warnings during his final months at the central bank last year, going so far as to argue that surging farmland prices throughout the Midwest were tied to the central bank’s zero percent interest rates and bond-buying efforts. Many outside the Fed made the case the surge in commodity prices last year was the result of U.S. Fed policies.
…
Federal Reserve=Central Planning, Soviet Style.
If you’re looking for socialism, you’ll find it at the fed.
…and now at least $30 TRILLION worth for Wall St.
(latest total of bailouts)
…and now at least $30 TRILLION worth for Wall St.
Counting the overnight loans in this way is very misleading.
The numbers are shocking enough out resorting to that.
If you know where the average person borrow millions at 0%, let us know so we can change change the definition to from “available only to a select few” to “accessible to all and therefore normal.”
Borrowing is the problem, not the solution.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind a 0% interest mortgage.
Because when they weren’t trying to create the next bubble we got 2007-2008 crash.
Is that really what you want?
I accept it is likely inevitable. But are you really hoping for total wipeout?
We only want a wipeout to get to the other side. Really, Darryl this suspended animation you keep arguing for doesn’t make any sense. Can you look at any bubble in history and tell me that at some point how they were able to make the correction go poof! No, it never happened. It can only be delayed but at a horrible price. Those that want a total collapse are really just saying we want the smaller collapse not the crazy and complete life altering wipe out.
And we want the collapse so we can experience a return to sanity in our lifetime so we can teach kids market priniciples instead of the robo-purchase/stock market love fest.
But, I’m not arguing for suspended animation. I’m arguing for a 100% reversal of everything we’ve been doing for 50 years.
So, I’m just wondering… when is the Roman Empire going to get to the other side?
Sometimes, there isn’t an “other side”.
Sometimes, there isn’t an “other side”.
I sometimes wonder if the desire to crash, burn, and resurrect ourselves in a better economic form, isn’t tied to the peculiarly American born-again evangelical religious tendency, where such an archetype is the central element of belief.
Being agnostic, I too am dubious of this heavenly ‘other side’.
The Economist of January 21st - 27th has a cover story (and a special report) on the rise of state capitalism. Very interesting reading. My ultimate concerns with it are the corruption and inefficiencies it brings. But as with any policy, there are costs and benefits.
As soon as the financial crisis hit here, all the free market principles went out the window when it was threatened they would be applied to the wounded financial industry. If your principles go out the window in a crisis, how good can they be?
http://www.economist.com/node/21543160
Turns out they can be great for the typical american and the country itself, but if they are bad for the financial elite.. well they didn’t spend all that money buying politicians for no reason did they?
rise of state capitalism
Isn’t that just a fancy name for Fascism?
rise of state capitalism
Isn’t that just a fancy name for Fascism?
Corporatocracy: Rule by an oligarchy of corporate elites through the manipulation of a formal democracy.
Fed Policy’s Encouragement of Risk Is by Design
Who is that news to? Isn’t that one of the basic tenets of monetary policy? Lower interest rates to discourage people from holding debt and to encourage them to invest in assets.
Try the price of world oil. Ben’s bucks are totally responsible for this mess.
Hey Paddy…. how are things over at the forum…. still letting the lying realtors set the agenda?
The Free House Army is wailing and belaboring the “mortgage settlement”. These people are deluded.
On “the Takeaway” radio show last week John Hockenberry was interviewing a victim with his typical weak and sloppy journalism, never once asking the victim if they actually read the terms of their ARM or how many cash-out refi’s they did.
All this non-journalist could keep asking was “how much free sh*t would the victims get?”
All this non-journalist could keep asking was “how much free sh*t would the victims get?”
And the answer is … very, very little.
I’m gonna laugh my azz off, if the plan to give the banksters another slap on the wrist is thrown under the bus by the whining of the “Free S##t Army”.
Good for the goose (Wall St) good for the gander (Free House Army).
So long as the U.S. stock market keeps rising, who cares about rioting Greeks?
Feb. 13, 2012, 10:09 a.m. EST
U.S. stocks open higher on Greek accord
By Kate Gibson, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks started higher on Monday after Greece approved austerity measures to ensure funds needed to avoid default.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA rose 55.10 points to 12,856.33, with all but one of its 30 components trading higher.
Greek lenders must be sighing with relief that Athens has finally accepted the terms of the bailout. But with the sight of Athens going up in flames, Geoffrey Smith and Simon Nixon look at whether Greece is being asked to do too much.
The S&P 500 added 7.67 points to 1,350.31, with financials gaining the most among its 10 industry groups.
The Nasdaq Composite climbed 24.17 points to 2,928.05.
For every stock falling nearly six gained on the New York Stock Exchange, where 97 million shares traded hands as of 9:55 a.m. Eastern.
…
“…who cares about rioting Greeks?”
Cadillac.downhill mountain road.no brakes.
Who cares where the dropped cigarette lighter is at the moment? Anyone?
(Hwy glances at the cha$m down below…)
Q. What do you call Greek police in riot gear staring down the aftermath of a Molotov coktail if you are a MSM reporter?
A. OPTIMISM.
Feb. 13, 2012, 8:21 a.m. EST
Greek optimism pushes Europe stocks higher
C&W Worldwide surges 30% as Vodafone mulls a potential bid
By Sara Sjolin, MarketWatch
Reuters
A petrol bomb explodes near riot police during a huge anti-austerity demonstration in Athens’ Syntagma (Constitution) square February 12, 2012.
LONDON (MarketWatch) — European stock markets rose Monday, amid investor relief after the Greek government over the weekend approved unpopular austerity measures, with gains supported by banks, mining and pharmaceutical stocks.
…
Hey, if Big Brother says it’s optimism, then it has to be optimism!
People in debt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrdmw9Aac5Y - 139k - Cached -
Here is the path of negative economic development the globalist central banking cartel has laid out for the West:
1) Make easy money loans to let previously sound microeconomic units mire themselves in unrepayable debt.
2) Crush the debtors with austerity-driven debt collection measures.
3) Tell everyone “nobody could have seen it coming” so they won’t suspect the whole episode was financially engineered from the top.
Greece Becomes a Third-World Country
Posted: February 13, 2012 at 6:55 am
The news media has given a great deal of coverage to the austerity programs Greece has accepted in order to get it another 130 billion in aid, the riots in the streets of Athens that are part of protests against these measures, and the high unemployment in the southern European nation. The effect of these events, and others that include a five-year recession, is that Greece is on the brink of moving from a developed nation to the equivalent of a third-world one.
…
“…the riots in the streets of Athens that are part of protests against these measures”
But surely that anger is 2nd to the fact that many, many, Greek $uffering So’s, are now suddenly going to have to fe$$ up to their $loth and Greed$ and do the right thing for their Nation and voluntarily pay ALL those back taxe$ they’ve ELUDED for year$ upon Year$, right? Right?
(Did’nt “Ethics” get a through milling in Athens many many years ago? What’s happened to those le$$on$?)
I’m not following this closely, but isn’t that additional “aid” simply being recycled to the banks that the Greeks already owe?
Hey! Gotta keep the super-seekrit Level 3 assets valuable, you know?
Try to cut the minimum wage 20% here like they are doing in Greece and we’ll see the exact same reaction.
While gutting SNAP and other forms of aid.
It’s amazing how many comments on other news sites say “gee that’s just too bad, losers”.
Could the U.S. Economy Ever Look Like Greece’s?
Greece may be a cautionary tale for the U.S., but don’t expect riots in the streets anytime soon
By Danielle Kurtzleben
February 13, 2012 RSS Feed Print
This weekend, Greece’s fiscal problems resulted in austerity measures and destructive riots in Athens. Meanwhile, the White House released a budget Monday making for a deficit of nearly $1 trillion. Looking at the Greek crisis and the United States’ $15 trillion national debt burden, it’s hard not to wonder: When, if ever, will the U.S. debt seriously threaten the economy?
…
From Syriana: “Corruption is why we win” (video duration: 52 seconds).”
I can imagine this speech repeated over and over in the halls of power in DC and Wall Street.
BIG drinkers of their own Kool Aid,, and yes, you better believe it.
This is the 1st time I have seen SHORT SALE that is 50% off. Maybe starting because of the recent deal gov money to subsidize short sales.
“This is a short sale and will take a little longer to close escrow but it will be well worth the wait. The homeowners purchased this property in 2005 for nearly $500,000.00 and now it is being sold for half the price!”
PS. Buyer to accept as-is.
Hmm….
My former landlady bought an as-is foreclosure. Took her years to bring the place back up to snuff.
In short, buyer beware. If you can’t inspect the place before you buy, you’re purchasing a pig in a poke.
NEVER buy sight unseen.
I can’t believe people still do that.
That’s like going to auctions thinking you will get a good deal.
I really don’t know what’s worse:
-Buying stuff sight unseen, or
-Taking the word of salesmen/consultants who may or may not be protecting your financial interests.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen management ignore/disregard the recommendations of their own employees, and accept the recommendations of outside “professional”, who seem to be more interested in collecting the fees/commissions, than to give the advice they were paid to give.
Rick Santorum is goatse.
That is the correct motorcycle!
That’s the rumor dude….
I’m not surprised at all.
The best part of the whole Greek riot thing was when Papandrou said something like there is no place in a democracy for rioting and violence.
Well Mr. Papandrou you were appointed the head of Greece, and anyone not wanting to vote for austerity has been removed from office. There is no democracy in Greece right now.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-13/ex-bear-stearns-managers-cioffi-tannin-to-pay-1-05-million-in-sec-suit.html
What a joke our crony capitalist justice system has become. Bear Stearns “traders” Cioffi and Tannin defrauded “investors” in their subprime MBS fund (which they claimed only contained 6% subprime MBSs) for hundreds of millions, and cost the US government $30 billion to take over the toxic waste MBS assets on Bear’s books (thank you Obama and McCain voters). Now they get off for a slap on the wrist fine that’s far less than the bonuses they were collecting for running a flim-flam scheme. Yeah, THAT’LL teach ‘em….
PORTLAND, Maine — Mitt Romney narrowly won Maine’s Republican caucuses, state party officials announced Saturday, providing his campaign with a much-needed boost after three straight losses earlier this week. But the former Massachusetts governor won just a plurality of the Maine vote, suggesting he still has work to do to unite GOP voters behind his candidacy.
At a gathering in Portland, state Republican Chairman Charlie Webster announced Romney had won with 2,190 votes, or 39 percent, compared to 1,996 — about 36 percent — for Ron Paul, the only other candidate to aggressively compete in the state. Rick Santorum received 989 votes and Newt Gingrich won 349, but neither actively campaigned there. Other candidates drew 61 votes.
inShare..The totals reflected about 84 percent of the state’s precincts. Webster insisted that any caucus results that come in after Saturday wouldn’t be counted no matter how close the vote.
Well there you have it folks, Democracy in action in the USA.
Moody’s just went ape$hit on Europe. Would hate to be a bagholder that bought into this Ponzi market today.
Austria: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
France: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
Italy: downgraded to A3 from A2, negative outlook
Malta: downgraded to A3 from A2, negative outlook
Portugal: downgraded to Ba3 from Ba2, negative outlook
Slovakia: downgraded to A2 from A1, negative outlook
Slovenia: downgraded to A2 from A1, negative outlook
Spain: downgraded to A3 from A1, negative outlook
United Kingdom: outlook on Aaa rating changed to negative
What??? No downgrade for Ireland??
C’mon—share the love, Moody’s…
just lookin to see if this was posted here
cut and paste from ZH by the way….they should be given credit
I might add, Sammy, that before we had central banks and PPP teams withholding any market repurcussion known to the universe at bay, this might have been a terrifying list. However, I can’t help but think that in today’s jpseudo-reality, the markets will only yawn. There is no reality anymore. There are directives of what imagery will be presented and then some robo purchase makes it so.
Later in evening they got into the CME crude market being halted for over an hour today. Probably nothing but I’m still wtg for that black swan we all know is coming for Europe and then us.
No worries, folks, as we already realize that global markets are oblivious to credit downgrades any more these days.
No reason here to worry, folks — recall that the U.S. and Asian markets are decoupled. The Gollum Sux economist told me, so it has to be true.
P.S. Just in case I am wrong, and the U.S. markets eventually get sucked down the tubes with the European economy, just think of it as a buying opportunity, and you will feel much better.
P.P.S. I believe the global central banking cartel offsets each and every would-be crash with infusions of liquidity, so there really, really is noting to worry about — it’s all contained!
Asia falls on ratings cuts
Asian stocks markets fall modestly after Moody’s cuts the ratings of a string of euro-zone nations, including Italy and Spain.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/charleskadlec/2012/02/06/the-federal-reserves-explicit-goal-devalue-the-dollar-33/
Zimbabwe Ben & the Fed out to devalue the dollar 33%. For starters.
“By many indicators, Greece is devolving into something unprecedented in modern Western experience. A quarter of all Greek companies have gone out of business since 2009, and half of all small businesses in the country say they are unable to meet payroll. The suicide rate increased by 40 percent in the first half of 2011. A barter economy has sprung up, as people try to work around a broken financial system. Nearly half the population under 25 is unemployed. Last September, organizers of a government-sponsored seminar on emigrating to Australia, an event that drew 42 people a year earlier, were overwhelmed when 12,000 people signed up. Greek bankers told me that people had taken about one-third of their money out of their accounts; many, it seems, were keeping what savings they had under their beds or buried in their backyards.”
NYTimes Sunday Magazine article
Only a third? If a country with a massive, unrepayable debt was about to switch to a new fiat currency, I can understand why some might be skeptical of its value.
The financial industry got its hand around Greece’s balls during foreplay (deficit spending), and now Greece suddenly realizes it’s not letting go.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/us-china-debt-idUSTRE81C07420120213
China kicks the can further down the road. Let’s pretend those uncollectable debts are ever getting repaid.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/13/greece-bankrupt-ablaze-cradle-democracy
From the cradle of democracy to looted bankster plantation. How the mighty are fallen. And the voters of Greece did this to themselves, much as the Obama Zombies & McCain Mutants are doing it for us.
Not completely true
Central Banks and GS colluded with Greek gov officials, and I suspect even put pressure on them, to keep the debt hidden from the people and investors, thus keeping interest rates low. If this had not been done, Greece’s interest rates would have started rising and the people would have been confronted with the problem long ago, before it turned into a 5 headed monster.
How could I forget….. Realtors Are Liars…….
Heh heh heh…
Hey Bear.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=201937
Anti-Second Amendmen Supreme Court judge gets robbed at machete point. Hey, kind of nice to be able to protect yourself from vermin, huh, Judge?
Operation Twist Making it “Tough to Fight the Fed”
February 10, 2012 12:27 PM EST
The Federal Reserve’s Operation Twist program has continued to indirectly benefit gold prices by keeping long-term interest rates artificially low.
Under the program, which is scheduled to end in June 2012, the Fed is purchasing longer-term Treasuries and selling equal amounts of shorter-term Treasuries in an effort to keep long-term interest rates near record minimum levels. As a result, the opportunity cost of holding gold – an asset that pays no dividend and offers no yield – has also remained near an all-time low.
This morning, the Wall Street Journal reported that “Economists and traders say there are signs the policy, taken together with the Fed’s pledge to keep interest rates near zero until late 2014, has in fact pushed some investors into competition with the Fed itself. That is keeping yields on the 30-year Treasury bond lower than many expected, even after taking the planned purchases that are part of $400 billion Operation Twist into account.”
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“This confluence of factors has caused a rapid shrinking of the number of 30-year bonds that are available to trade, and it is also distorting the 30-year bond yield’s role as an important gauge of inflation expectations,” the report added.
Michael Pond, co-head of U.S. interest rate strategy at Barclays Capital, commented that ”If the pace of the economic growth continues to pick up, 30-year bonds at these levels make no sense. [But] as long as the Fed is active in the market, it is tough to fight the Fed.”