Bits Bucket for March 16, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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My seventy year old coworker is trying to keep her house purchased five years ago with a 50 year mortgage. She is complaining that the banks are not working with her to modify the loan. I just shake my head and try to learn from it.
Just goes to show that age does not automatically confer wisdom.
The appropriate comparison is not to all, but to herself twenty years prior. I am pretty sure age confers wisdom.
So, she thought she’d live to be 115?
Obviously, she just wanted a cheap monthly nut while living in a house, not too concerned that she’d ever finish paying off the mortgage.
Was her plan to pass the mortgage note (and 25 years of interest, give or take) to an heir?
She’s not supposed to pay it off. She’s supposed to sell it to some greater fool when she’s too elderly to live in it any longer, gain no money from the transaction, and then live off the taxpayers when she’s destitute.
+1 So true!
“Obviously, she just wanted a cheap monthly nut while living in a house”
Well I`ll go ahead and buy an overpriced house if they will give me a 250 year mortgage with a fixed rate at 3.75%. But I am 52 years old, maybe I had better hold out for a 300 year loan.
Why 300 years? Why not a 500 year mortgage? Multi-generational debt would be great!
Why not interest-only forever? In other words, the _infinite_ years mortgage…
Because banks can’t hedge the interest rate that long. Or sell it to an investor.
Actually, it’s because “diminishing returns” sets in.
Do a quick calculation of a mortgage on $100K at any reasonable mortgage rate for 30 years, 50 years and perpetuity.
First column is interest rate. Three columns are monthly payment for $100K of mortgage for 30 years, 50 years and perpetuity. The differences are in the first and second decimal place (= cents.)
3.00 $250.00 $250.09 $251.71
4.00 $333.35 $333.35 $333.35
5.00 $416.67 $416.67 $416.67
6.00 $500.00 $500.00 $500.00
7.00 $583.33 $583.33 $583.33
8.00 $666.67 $666.67 $666.67
9.00 $750.00 $750.00 $750.00
10.00 $833.33 $833.33 $833.33
11.00 $916.67 $916.67 $916.67
12.00 $1,000.00 $1,000.00 $1,000.00
13.00 $1,083.33 $1,083.33 $1,083.33
On a related note, the “juiciest” years for a mortgage note are the upfront ones not the back ones.
A partially paid-off mortgage (let’s say 10 years on 30) is nowhere near as lucrative. They are frequently sold off.
“Obviously, she just wanted a cheap monthly nut while living in a house”
Well I`ll go ahead and buy an overpriced house if they will give me a 250 year mortgage with a fixed rate at 3.75%. But I am 52 years old, maybe I had better hold out for a 300 year loan.
Unless you have an inheritance or are in the top 10% of earners, you either rent shelter from a landlord or you rent money (mortgage) from a bank to pay for shelter.
Why not interest-only forever? In other words, the _infinite_ years mortgage…
For most people without huge savings, investments, or inheritance, this is just another definition of “rent”…
….you either rent shelter from a landlord or you rent money (mortgage) from a bank to pay for shelter.
The average American has less than 2K in savings. Paying their monthly bills and securing shelter is their priority. Return on investments is the furthest thing from their minds.
she just wanted a cheap monthly nut while living in a house,
I was just thinking yesterday, how I bought my first place in 1990 when the market was really dead here. In was in town and my PITI was $223…lol. This, after paying maybe 250 10 miles out of town. Interest was 12%. I went to refinance at 7% a few years later, and they were surprised I didn’t want some cash out of the deal. Perish the thought!
If I hadn’t bought when I did, I would be locked out of living in town by now. But the market was graveyard-dead after a long recession.
I went to refinance at 7% a few years later, and they were surprised I didn’t want some cash out of the deal.
The first time I refi’ed, I really shocked them by asking to do a cash-in refi rather than a cash-out refi.
The expectation that every single borrower would want cash-out should have been an early hint at the bubble…
How else can J6P “afford” that $50K Super duper pickup truck?
When II qualified in 1999, they were surprised that I only listed my income. Because “You can buy a lot more house of you apply with both your incomes”
OTOH, guess I can’t complain too much about “fog a mirror” financing. Wasn’t a problem to do a cash-out refi in 2003, when I had to buy out the ex-’s share of the house.
I’ve always thought the lending laws governing discrimination were too loose.
“My seventy year old coworker”
I know what you don`t do.
Palm Beach Gardens to seek cutbacks in city police and fire pensions
By Bill DiPaolo Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Posted: 2:03 p.m. Sunday, July 10, 2011
PALM BEACH GARDENS — About one out of every eight property tax dollars last year went to city public employee pensions, a growing amount that city officials say must be reduced.
“Without reductions, the city will have to raise taxes or reduce services,” Mayor David Levy said.
Blame generous pension plans awarded to police and firefighter unions while the economy was booming, said Levy and others familiar with the city’s retirement system.
A police officer now can retire with 100 percent pay after 29 years. A firefighter can to retire with 99 percent pay after 33 years. Each can begin collecting a smaller pension if they retire at age 52.
One proposal would allow current employees to keep their benefits at the current rate. New hires would receive less in benefits. Other proposals Palm Beach Gardens is considering include:
- Raising the retirement age to 59 years old from the current 52.
- Eliminating cost-of-living-allowance raises, or COLAs.
- Calculating pensions on base pay only. Overtime and personal leave time is presently factored in.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/palm-beach-gardens-to-seek-cutbacks-in-city-1597224.html - 93k -
What does a cop do after he has retired? Mall cop? Last I heard, that job doesn’t pay too well.
And the last I heard, if you are over 45, you will have a helluva time finding a new job anywhere, much less in a position that requires heavy physical activity. Haven’t seen two many 50 year old cops that can run down an 18 year old on foot.
Everybody forgets that one of the big reasons cops get decent pensions, is because we don’t want them supplementing their pay pensions by other means.
Ask Mexico and a host of other Banana Republics how that underpaid cop plan is working out for them.
Maybe the problem isn’t pensions……maybe the problem is the politicos are giving away too many tax breaks/freebies to their buddies/high rollers, as an incentive to set up shop in their little burg.
Cops don’t run down criminals, no matter how a shape they are in. They file reports after the criminal is long gone. If they are physically chasing somebody around, well nobody can outrun a cb radio.
Cops don’t run down criminals, no matter how a shape they are in.
That’s not what I see on COPS… there is always the cop running down some suspect on foot with the camera crew chasing after.
And while we’re on the topic: why is it that every male suspect ends up with his shirt off on that show?
“Bad boys, bad boys. What you gonna do? What you gonna do when they come for you?” Put a damn shirt on, that’s what…
You don’t know many police, do you? Chasing after people is the fun part of the job. Many of ‘em LIVE for that sh!t. Although a friend mentioned that his sergeant told him “You get older every year, but the mooks don’t.”
Of course it’s the fun part of the job. When they run, you get to beat on them, and tasering and beating and pointing guns at people for minor misdemeanors is the reason you become a cop. I’m just saying that they don’t spend a lot of time doing that where being able to run fast is much of a job requirement. There is the cops/donut shop stereotype afterall. They didn’t get that stereotype by being the svelte type.
…house purchased five years ago with a 50 year mortgage.
Betcha that loan was sold the same day as the closing.
Christian Democrat MPs on Wednesday called on the government to set up a parliamentary inquiry into housing corporations following a string of scandals and financial problems.
Housing corporations, originally established to house low income families, have grown into massive organisations which now control some 2.4 million homes, or around one-third of the country’s housing stock.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/03/support_grows_for_inquiry_into.php
The Netherlands’ largest affordable housing provider is looking to sell a third of its homes and seeking billions of pounds in support after losing €20bn (£16.9bn)in a financial deal.
Vestia, a housing association in Rotterdam which owns 89,000 homes, took out a €20bn investment in derivatives during 2010 and 2011, according to Social Housing magazine. However, it did not fully manage the risk of its investment – a mistake made by some UK housing associations in recent years – leaving Vestia €2.5bn out of pocket.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/feb/29/dutch-housing-association-sell-homes?newsfeed=true
Perhaps the gentleman who used to post from Holland was right out the Dutch Housing Market. It looks a bit fishy to me.
Do the gang members get to be part of the 99%? Just wonderin.
Gang member charged with stomping Daytona Beach biker
Victim suffered head injury in beating and robbery by four attackers
Henry Pierson Curtis, Orlando Sentinel
5:54 p.m. EDT, March 15, 2012
A gang member who served two terms in prison was picked up Wednesday and charged with beating and robbing a biker leaving a Daytona Beach bar last week. Nicco Villagomez faces charges of aggravated battery causing disability and robbery without a firearm for the attack at about 2:30 a.m. March 8 on North Halifax Avenue, Daytona Beach police said Thursday. The victim was beaten to the ground and kicked repeatedly by four attackers in a neighborhood near Razzle’s Nightclub, an arrest report states. Villagomez previously served time in prison for aggravated battery and fleeing and eluding police, according to the Florida Department of Corrections. He remains held in lieu of $15,000 bail in the Volusia County Branch Jail.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gang-attack-daytona-beach-20120315,0,2546662.story - 226k -
They’re really going for the heads now, aren’t they. A small step toward flattening out the bell curve - ?
Mortgage brokers and serial refinancers who were reaping huge benefits from the fraud and corruption years after this blog was started get millions while Ben Jones gets nothing. What a bunch of BS.
“Szymoniak declined to comment.” I wonder why?
Whistleblowers reap millions in U.S. mortgage suits
By Rick Rothacker
Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:11pm EDT
(Reuters) - Troubled homeowners are not the only ones set to get a financial lift from the U.S. government’s $25 billion landmark mortgage settlement.
Whistleblowers who were instrumental in revealing epidemic mortgage abuses, some of whom risked their careers to do so, are getting multi-million-dollar payouts, court documents show.
Victor Bibby and Brian Donnelly, two Georgia mortgage brokers, are among the handful of whistleblowers whose stories are coming into focus.
Bibby and Donnelly said they started noticing in 2005 that lenders were charging veterans hidden fees on mortgage refinancing - a violation of the government’s Interest Rate Reduction Refinancing Loans program.
The lenders also used false assignments to submit Federal Housing Administration insurance claims, prosecutors said.
The whistleblower in the case, Florida homeowner Lynn Szymoniak, will receive $18 million.
She gained national attention last year when CBS’ “60 Minutes” profiled her role in uncovering the robo-signing of foreclosure documents by large lenders.
While trying to save her own home from foreclosure, according to the “60 Minutes” report, Szymoniak used her legal training to research other mortgages and discovered that a “Linda Green” had signed thousands of mortgage documents, in varying signature styles.
Multiple employees in a mortgage document “sweat shop” in Georgia were using the name Linda Green to recreate missing mortgage assignment documents for the banks, the report said.
Szymoniak declined to comment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/14/us-settlement-whistleblowers-idUSBRE82D1G620120314 - 103k -
How many went to jail for this fraud?
Meat Loaf Paradise By The Dashboard Light lyrics
(Phil Rizzuto play by play)
Okay, here we go, we got a real pressure cooker going here
Seven down, nobody out, no score, bottom of the ninth
There’s the windup, and there it is, a line shot up the middle
Look at him go, this boy can really cry, he’s rounding his first year and really
Turning it on now, he’s not letting up at all, he’s gonna try for a Second year, the ball is bobbled out in center, and here comes the Throw, and what a throw! He’s gonna slide in head first, here he Comes, he’s out! No, wait, safe, safe for the second year , this kid
Really makes things happen out there, beater steps up to the
Plate, here’s the pitch, he’s going, and what a jump he’s got!
He’s trying for a third year, here’s the throw, it’s in the dirt-safe for the Third year! Holy cow, stolen year! He’s taken a pretty big loan out there
He`s almost daring him to try and foreclose, the banker
Glances over, winds up, and it’s bunted, bunted down the third
Base line, the suicide squeeze is on, here he comes, squeeze
Play, it’s gonna be close, holy cow, I think he’s gonna make it
From the Denver Post:
“Rod Blagojevich, the disgraced Illinois governor on his way to begin a 14 year sentence at the nearby Federal Correctional Institution Englewood, wasn’t exactly going to prison quietly.
Shortly before noon, Blagojevich made the rounds and posed for photos with the locals … in the end, Blagojevich left them with more than a burger and fries.
“There was one last thing he told us,” said Dugas. “And that was to stay out of politics.”
“Since when has it been part of American patriotism to keep our mouths shut?” - Hillary Clinton 2006
“Blind faith in bad leadership is not patriotism” - Hillary Clinton 2006
“Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism” - Hillary Clinton 2006
Secret Service Gets Authority To Limit Free Speech
Mar-15-2012
President Obama last week signed into law the Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011. A fairly benign, and non-threatening name for a bill which Judge Andrew Napolitano says gives the Secret Service unprecedented authority to limit free speech.
Napolitano writes, “This law permits Secret Service agents to designate any place they wish as a place where free speech, association and petition of the government are prohibited. And it permits the Secret Service to make these determinations based on the content of speech. Thus, federal agents whose work is to protect public officials and their friends may prohibit the speech and the gatherings of folks who disagree with those officials or permit the speech and the gatherings of those who would praise them, even though the First Amendment condemns content-based speech discrimination by the government.”
Freedom of speech is perhaps our great right and should be protected at all times. Something this President, and oh by the way this Congress, seem to only want to protect when what they are hearing is pleasing to their ears.
The “Judge” encapsulates this legal abomination perfectly, “This abominable legislation enjoyed overwhelming support from both political parties in Congress because the establishment loves power, fears dissent and hates inconvenience, and it doesn’t give a damn about the Constitution. It passed the Senate by unanimous consent, and only three members of the House voted against it. And the president signed it in secret. It is more typical of contemporary China than America. It is more George III than George Washington.”
http://www.loudobbs.com/b/Secret-Service-Gets-Authority-To-Limit-Free-Speech/-449393420036111215.html - -
Thank god we don’t live in some damn commie police state where they arrest you for just peacefully assembling to redress grievances!
I was trying to rent a moving van this weekend for a 8 mile move as I gave my LL notice that I would vacate by March 31. There are three choices: Ryder, Penski, UHaul, or rent a Pod. All Pods are booked through March. Penski closed its big operation in Gilroy. At their office here everything it booked until Wednesday and if someone comes in for an out-of-town rental they get first choice. They only have two 17 footers and none with a lift. They won’t bring anything else in unless it’s going out of state. Ryder was a joke but also had nothing. UHaul has one 17 footer available for this Sunday only. Cost is $29/day, $0.89/mile,plus gas.
I was told by a truck repair shop that had Penski trucks in its yard that Penski is selling off stock.
salinasron-
You’re further north (we’re in Ventura County), but thanks for the data point.
I was trying to rent a moving van this weekend for a 8 mile move…
Yep, the recovery is underway.
Per yesterday’s bits bucket discussion about the inflation:
Inflation in the price of consumer goods, without an increase in wages, leads to less demand and a glut of goods which leads to falling prices due to the weak demand. The Fed can’t win.
What I’m seeing is a clear split between the wealthy and higher income group, say the top 10% of income, and everyone else. Luxury goods are selling: Look at companies like Apple, Nordstroms, Coach, BMW, Porsche, etc. Incomes continue to rise on the higher rungs of the ladder. The bottom rungs, not so much.
The inflation I see and think will continue will force those with lower incomes and assets to shrink their discretionary spending, thus the comment above is true for them, but not for the top 10%. Thus, we end up with a distribution of wealth and income very similar to a third-world country. Those companies whose goods and services were typically within reach of the “middle class” will falter unless they move up in terms of income demographic. Luxury goods and services will continue to flourish. The wide band of the “middle class” will continue to narrow towards the top end of the income/asset spectrum. More and more sales will be concentrated in that top band while the lower bands spend more on basic living expenses.
Not a pleasant thought if you’re not in the upper income/asset band, but I think this is the most likely scenario: continued inflation, continued concentration of wealth in the top 10%, declining standard of living for the bottom 90%.
Who cares if the middle class gets knocked down a few pegs. There is more than enough potential demand in the rest of the world in the emerging economies that will more than make up for this diminishing discretionary spending of the bottom 90% in the US. That’s the beauty of globalization.
Tea Party, Ocuupy, etc. - these are the first of many waves of discontent to wash upon our shores. Just wait until the next few decades when people begin to retire (or work as Home Depot greeters) and realize how little they have to live on with no pensions, reduced SS, .5% IRA CD’s, minimal 401k’s, possibly hyperinflations, etc. It won’t be pretty.
Something will trigger the majority of Americans to get off their collective fat, lazy asses and realize they’ve been lied to for a long, long time by the PTB and MSM (on in the same) and that they’re screwed.
“Just wait until the next few decades when people begin to retire”
It’s already happening. The chronically underemployed are calling themselves “semi-retired”.
And what do you propose will happen after they get off their collective fat, lazy a$$es? With one third of the country now obese I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
The squad predicts the sheeple will remain docile, a la “Idiocracy”.
You have a valid point. It will be entertaining to see what the future holds.
But when I discuss issues of food security, FRB&GI Act (see above), debt, income disprity, quasi-fascism, resource (topsoil, groundwater, energy, fisheries, etc.) depletion, mass starvation, etc., many think I’ve gone off the deep end and go back to watching the game on their 52″ plasma.
With one third of the country now obese I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics… based on the FedGov standard Body Mass Index (BMI), I’m considered “obese” at 5′10″, 212lb. According to the government stats, I should weigh 170lb given my height… Needless to say, this index doesn’t take into account muscle mass or body fat composition. Considering my body fat comp. is about 15%, I’m quite sure I’m not actually obese. Have to take those national stats with a grain of salt…
Also, considering what most military enlistees get paid, I would say the vast majority of them are in the middle or lower bands of income/assets. They are generally young, in-shape, and have access to weapons. Look to Syria and the mass-defections from the army to see where I’m going with this.
Have to take those national stats with a grain of salt…
+1. Having a decent amount of muscle-mass will push one towards the “overweight/obese” end of the BMI spectrum. That always seemed pretty ridiculous to me.
Of course, you also have to take their guidelines regarding salt-intake with a grain of salt. There is no documented health benefit to restricting salt intake unless you ALREADY have high blood-pressure or other heart disease that makes it a good idea.
fat, lazy a$$es?
Most overweight Americans are not lazy. It is an unfair stereotype that ignores the American diet and the amount of time most employed Americans spend on the job.
“What I’m seeing is a clear split between the wealthy and higher income group, say the top 10% of income, and everyone else. Luxury goods are selling: Look at companies like Apple”
I did some travelling these past few months. I was astounded at the number of iPads I saw at at airports. It was surreal. The managerial class is doing just fine.
I was astounded at the number of iPads I saw at at airports. It was surreal. The managerial class is doing just fine.
You’re not kidding. Take a look at this article from the Boston Globe on in-demand jobs in Boston. Specifically, the average salary (read not including bonus) of IT Project Managers: $134K. Also, Marketing Managers in Boston: $135K. Doesn’t say mean or median, but it’s still quite high for an average.
average == mean.
It’s the hallmark of a 3rd World country when even 1st tier managers are paid VASTLY more than the highly skilled individual contributors they manage.
And we wonder why engineering enrollments are down while Biz Schools are packed to the seams.
There is another aspect that most people seem to not realize when it comes inflation: lack of demand usually does NOT result in lower prices of any significance or long term.
What happens is a big game of chicken. Retailers and manufacturers will hold prices as long as they can to see who goes out of business first. This automatically lessens supply. Read that again.
In fact, they will try to RAISE prices to make up for any lack of demand eating into profits.
Thus, stagflation.
Supply and demand went out with the Reagan era. Voodoo (supply side) economics not only became popular, but was virtually canonized into law.
So remember, price go up when times are good by claiming scarcity of product and prices go up when times are bad by claiming scarcity of profit.
Never forget his and you will not be superseded by what our corporate fascist future brings.
What I’m seeing is a clear split between the wealthy and higher income group, say the top 10% of income, and everyone else. Luxury goods are selling: Look at companies like Apple, Nordstroms, Coach, BMW, Porsche, etc.
Excuse me…would you have any Grey Poupon?
Excuse me…would you have any Grey Poupon?
+100
Along the same lines:
Frank’s red hot sause commercial
Yo…. what ever happened to that dude Blano???
Yo…. what ever happened to that dude Blano???
http://tinyurl.com/3225xm3 (jpg)
Two interesting articles from Boston.com today:
The first on rising rents in the city, the second a discussion with Robert Schiller (of Case-Schiller Home Price index fame)
Soaring rents a silver lining in a down market
Economist who foresaw burst bubbles voices caution
One of the better comments from the rising rent article. This, again, jives with what I see as far as rising rents and rising incomes (aka inflation), and falling house prices in Mass:
“House values will inevitably correct to levels supported by fundamentals. This will likely occur through some combination of falling house prices accompanied by general inflation (i.e. rising incomes and rents). Which of these two factors will dominate and how timing will play out are topics for legitimate debate.”
Slim enters the room, looks around, and sees that the housing bubble and its aftermath are still hot topics for discussion. Glad to see that some things haven’t changed.
What has changed? Well, just about everything in my life, that’s what.
I was back in PA for almost three weeks, and let’s just say that the situation with my parents isn’t very pretty to look at. If there’s any good news in all of the mess is that my mother’s making a very fast recovery from not one, but two, broken bones. And she had to have surgery on both.
As for my dad, let’s just say that he’s a challenge to deal with. No short-term memory and poor decision-making too. Mom got out of rehab a week ago yesterday, and she’s already making plans for what comes next. I’ve been quietly helping her on that front.
Now that I’m back here, I’m clearing the decks for action. Meaning that I’ve landed a book contract and need to get cranking on the writing. My publisher’s looking for written copy — and soon. That’s good, because the faster I can finish this thing, the faster I can get paid for it.
And getting paid is something that I really need to do. Since I was in caregiver mode for almost three weeks, my freelance graphic design, photography, and writing efforts have been on hold, and they need to get back into action. So, if you or anyone you know has projects that could use the Slim touch, give me a holler.
Slim, I wish I did have a project for you. Alas, all I can offer is moral support. What you are going through is very difficult and exhausting, with little reward for it all. I hesitate to ask this, but…are your parents in any financial position to compensate you for your work on their behalf? You surely have earned it.
Wish you were a wee bit closer. I could probably offer a few connections. Instead I’ll have to just point out the obvious. You are a strong, intelligent lady and I know you’ll come out of this well.
Slim,
Have you considered contacting some of the nature/science oriented non-profits - the ones that aren’t specifically magazine oriented. I was at a film for the DC environmental film festival the other day. One person I talked to said she was a graphic designed for the World Wildlife Fund. Seems they have a super special upscale publication that goes out to their high end donors. I didn’t know that such publications existed. Seems a little outside your direct expertise (being the more science end of stuff) but it might be worth finding a few and adding to your cold call list. They can’t all do it (or do all of it) with employees. And maybe they have separate web site spaces just for the higher end donors too?
Just a thought.
Slim, please give drop me a post? dee vee ess enn tee tee at bee enn eye ess dot net.
Thanks.
a
At Goldman, short-term greed vs. long-term greed
Posted by Ezra Klein at 03:42 PM ET, 03/15/2012
Washington Post
For Goldman Sachs, the real damage of the last two days didn’t come from disgruntled trader Greg Smith’s resignation op-ed. It came from Goldman’s defenders.
Many of the replies said, either explicitly or in effect, of course Goldman rips off its clients if doing so will help it make money. Only the naive would think otherwise. As an editorial in Bloomberg View put it , “It must have been a terrible shock when Smith concluded that Goldman actually was primarily about making money.” (Disclosure: I’m a contributor to Bloomberg View.)
Much in Smith’s op-ed defies belief. It’s hard to countenance the idea that Goldman’s culture is more “toxic” today than it was in 2005, when they were involved in inflating a housing bubble that would help crash the global economy, or in 2007 and 2008, when they began desperately offloading their housing-related assets to investors who hadn’t yet realized the market was going to crash.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/at-goldman-short-term-greed-vs-long-term-greed/2011/08/25/gIQAxFhhES_blog.html
Alpha, I noticed our emotion play the other day, which tells me you’ve got something on the hook.
So, are you a homeowner, FIRE employee, or both?
Reference, Muggy?
March 14th Bits… the thread where Alpha tries to scare me by trying connect local school board issues with federal housing policy.
BTW, Alpha, “controlled price discovery” is more banskter than anything Blue has ever said.