The Housing Bubble

Is that like p!ssing into the wind?

“Should I cut back to 3/8 cup of oatmeal?”

Depends. Do your kids have the oatmeal/rice/beans/broccoli diet as well?

Actually, prime, I see the whole “opening up” of the Census Information to be only so much bunk. Yeah, the Census counted people in the odd decades, too, just as they did in 1940.

It’s only now that the Census is “opening up” 1940 census details…apparently due to the fact that people living now can’t handle all the information.

It’s all akin to the government hiding information about JFK’s death for decades…under the guise that doing so “protects the family.”

it was more like hiding information about JFK himself, wasn’t it?

Yes.

And how I managed to write “fact that people living now can’t…” What a dolt I am sometimes.

Should read, “fact that people living THEN…”

So our Pastor donned a hoodie yesterday….. and said “shoot me…. go ahead….. you won’t…. wanna know why? Because I’m white.” There was much more… and it was good.

I am not following this media drama much, but lots of HBBers seem preoccupied with it.

Seems the guy is being convicted in the sensational press.

Seems if it was murder, it is being taken as a crime against the entire black population of the country. Bigotry isn’t proven in the crime, but it sure is in the observer.

If you shot and killed an unarmed kid and were still on the street, you’d be convicted by the press too.

“Seems the guy is being convicted in the sensational press.”

Exactly, Blue, and thank you for your sane words. This is one horrible beast that people keep feeding, with the media stoking the flames ever higher. The baying of the hounds is not to be believed.

Seems if it was murder, it is being taken as a crime against the entire black population of the country.

No, I take it as a crime against my right not to be harassed by self-appointed vigilantes or other @ssh0les, who then can legally shoot and kill me if they don’t like my response. Then tell the cops I attacked or threatened them, and it’s their word against a dead guy- me.

Or as another guy put it: “License to pick a fight with anyone, and shoot them if you start to lose.”

I actually think if you take away the black/white thing, and pretend that they are both white, then some can begin to grasp the actual issue involved- which has nothing to do with race. It’s the right not to get legally shot by anyone with a hair-trigger temper, who happens to take a disliking to you, and feel that in some way you threaten them, or that at least they can claim you did afterwards.

Alpha Colorado……and neither should have been there…

exactly….no right at all to walk on those streets…..None zip he was an intruder

He should have been in his own home in Miami, but he was a very bad boy and was suspended from school…

so yes the idiot and a moron should never have met…

So our Pastor donned a hoodie yesterday….. and said “shoot me…. go ahead….. you won’t…. wanna know why? Because I’m white.” There was much more… and it was good.

Such silliness. This proves what?

Go walk around North Philly or Detroit or etc. like as a white idiot. Yeah - you are gonna get shot.

Go walk Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or Libya or Egypt or etc. as a Christian Pastor. Yeah - you are gonna get shot.

Yes but NOT on a school night when he was supposed to be in Miami….Oh thats right he was suspended from school.

Forgive me for asking, but why shouldn’t the kid have been there? He was a guest at someone’s house and he went out to buy a snack at 7 PM. All perfectly normal and legitimate activities.

Go walk in AfghanLand as anyone and you’re gonna get shot.

This proves what?

I had a conversation with my BIL this weekend that I thought brought up a good point. The “Stand your ground” law was supposed to protect victims of violent crimes from prosecution in cases of where there is a homicide against the perpetrator.

Many states have a “duty to retreat” law where the victim of an assault or other violent crime cannot use deadly force to protect him/hersef without first attempting to flee from the attacker. As an example, in Massachusetts, if a criminal were to enter my home and threaten my family with harm, I would open myself up for prosecution by the DA if I shot the perp without first trying to get away, at least in theory. Additionally, if the perp was in my house, but fleeing (i.e. his back was turned) and I shot him, I would be prosecuted.

Laws like “Castle doctrine” and “Stand your ground” try to protect the victims by making them immune from prosecution. I think this makes complete sense in your home. Where it get’s tricky is extending those protections to outside your home. I think the idea of “duty to retreat” is asinine, but so are laws that allow you immunity from prosecution where you get yourself into a perfectly avoidable conflict and somebody is shot.

Castle Doctrine (you can shoot someone who has broken into your home without having to retreat), along with Duty to Retreat (which means in a public place, not in your home) have been the common law- and our law- for hundreds of years, and got us (and the Brits) through much more violent and dangerous times than now.

The Stand Your Ground laws- which say that you don’t have to retreat from a threat if you’re anywhere you have a legal right to be, are new additions to the law. And we are already seeing some of the problems predicted by those who opposed them.

I think the idea of “duty to retreat” is asinine, but so are laws that allow you immunity from prosecution where you get yourself into a perfectly avoidable conflict and somebody is shot.

What’s the difference ?

What’s the difference ?

I guess that is my point… there has to be a common-sense middle ground that protects the victims of violent crime who commit justifiable homicide while preventing abuses of that protection by people who are looking for trouble.

And by the way TuttiFrutti, our church is pasty white and conservative broadly speaking and they all loved it. You see…. when conservatives are told the truth and are no longer the captive audience of one perspective, they begin to think.

Why do you want to keep the public dumbed down?

“…and neither should have been there…”

Why the hell not?

“None zip he was an intruder”

No, he was a guest at resident’s house in the neighborhood. He was not an” intruder”. By your logic anyone I invite to stay at my house is an “intruder”. That his home was elsewhere is irrelevant. He wasn’t a prowler or an intruder.

This reminds me of an incident we just had in my little burg. A bone head was driving down a country road while fiddling with his cell phone. While distracted he ran off the road, killing two pedestrians and injuring another. Predictably, there were idiots who rushed to his defense, claiming that those pedestrians shouldn’t have been there, and that they bore part of the blame. Last time I checked there were no laws forbidding walking along the shoulder of a county road. But we do have laws against using cell phones while driving.

there has to be a common-sense middle ground that protects the victims of violent crime who commit justifiable homicide while preventing abuses of that protection

There was, and it was found in the dual common law doctrines of Castle Domain, and Duty to Retreat. They aren’t as specific as they may sound- for instance if a little kid wanders into your house you don’t have the right to shoot him, nor do you have to leap off a cliff into raging rapids to retreat from someone threatening you violently- you may shoot them. The whole point is they are guidelines the legal system uses to look at a violent altercation, to see if a crime is involved.

Stand Your Ground laws muddy the waters, because they are so broad in their defense of the shooter, that they offer an open invitation to abuse. Basically they say you can shoot anyone that threatens you if you have a right to be where the act occurs. It’s a reasonable idea on its face, but in practice it opens the door to vigilantism of the worst kind, and simple murder.

No, I take it as a crime against my right not to be harassed by self-appointed vigilantes or other @ssh0les, who then can legally shoot and kill me if they don’t like my response. Then tell the cops I attacked or threatened them, and it’s their word against a dead guy- me.

My feelings exactly. And just because I’m white I don’t believe for a second that it can’t happen to me.

“Common sense”

The cops should have treated this case like a homicide, then after gathering the evidence, let the DA make the “self defence” decision. That’s the way it is supposed to work.

When the “Stand your Ground” law was passed, policies and procedures should have been written and implemented by the cops to that effect.

This assumes that the cops are interested in “justice”, instead of giving NRA whack-jobs a “Get out of Jail free” cards, should they ever feel threatened by a skinny teenager carrying a drink and a bag of Skittles.

Maybe Zimmerman wanted the Skittles……where did they go? Because nobody bothered to do an actual investigation, we’ll never know.

IMO, some Sanford policemen should be looking for a job.

If this was on a WEEKEND….think of how my answer would have changed…

Any good defense lawyer with state this over and over…he was not supposed to be there…

“None zip he was an intruder”

No, he was a guest at resident’s house in the neighborhood. He was not an” intruder”. By your logic anyone I invite to stay at my house is an “intruder”. That his home was elsewhere is irrelevant. He wasn’t a prowler or an intruder.

The cops should have treated this case like a homicide, then after gathering the evidence, let the DA make the “self defence” decision. That’s the way it is supposed to work.

That’s exactly what they did, though.

The police report indicates that they wrote it up as a wrongful death, and referred it to the DA.

Let’s wait for the system to do its job, folks. It’s not done yet.

So our Pastor donned a hoodie yesterday….. and said “shoot me…. go ahead….. you won’t…. wanna know why? Because I’m white.” There was much more… and it was good.

I was thinking about the race issue. Of course, IMHO virtually everyone is “appearance conscious.” The see someone and try to extract information based on their physical appearance.

Zimmerman looked at Martin and a pattern probably matched in his mind: Late at night + black + wearing clothing reminiscent of a criminal.

People are up in arms about the “black” component of that. But, whites commit plenty of burglaries, depending on the area. If the guy looked like a white meth-head, I think he probably would have gotten some unwanted attention as well. I’ve seen whites that I’ve pattern-matched to criminal.

I don’t want to minimize the racial angle of this, but I think Zimmerman pattern-matched “criminal” to Martin, not merely pattern-matched “black.” Had Martin been wearing an oxford shirt and chinos, I’m confident Zimmerman would not have pattern-matched him to “criminal.”

That’s my speculation anyway.

So if Trayvon was white, what do you think Zimmerman would have done?

“The police report indicates that they wrote it up as a wrongful death, and referred it to the DA.”

…and the DA recommended it be dropped due to lack of evidence and it was.

The system is no longer “working” on it.

THAT’S whole problem!

“Late at night + black + wearing clothing reminiscent of a criminal.”

My understanding was that the shooting took place at around 7 PM. I would not consider that late at night, even if it was dark.

So if Trayvon was white, what do you think Zimmerman would have done?

White guy in a hoody, in an area plus behaving in a manner which aroused Zimmerman’s suspicion… my guess is Zimmerman would have confronted him. And then what? I don’t know. I’m still not clear on what happened during the contact between Zimmerman and Martin.

My speculation is that Zimmerman pattern-matched “criminal.” I’m very confident that an older black guy out walking his dog would not have garnered a second glance from Zimmerman.

Don’t get me wrong - I know there are people who become annoyed when they see someone that doesn’t look like them. That they perceive aren’t from the same “tribe”. Based on the context of this incident though, I have not seen that thought pattern evidenced, based on my admittedly very limited information.

…and the DA recommended it be dropped due to lack of evidence and it was.

THAT’S whole problem!

So are you saying the DA is biased, or that you know better than the DA whether there is sufficient evidence to charge him?

My understanding is Zimmerman’s grandfather is a state supreme court magistrate. This may help explain why the DA hasn’t pursued the case as a murder, yet.
The public outcry will force his/her hand though.

My opinion regarding this whole thing. If Zimmerman shot the kid while he was pleading for his life, it’s murder. If Z shot him while his head was getting slammed into the concrete, self defense.

yup the idiot and the moron…no race involved

from the article:

“Zimmerman was the point person for the subdivision’s neighborhood watch program. The September edition of the community’s newsletter stated: “To receive Neighborhood Watch updates, safety tips and be noticed [sic] of any suspicious activity within your community, call George Zimmerman.” It included his phone number, which has since been disconnected.”

___

“safety tips” from Zimmerman

I’d love to hear those.

Zimmerman was the point person for the subdivision’s neighborhood watch program

They’re boned.

this is sort of scary…starting to wonder if something like this could happen to a PTA.

“This sort of thing” happens all the time. There was an SIP (self important person) who was on the board of my old HOA who was trying to make a land deal of the neighborhood commons that involved some serious conflict of interest that would have boned the homeowners while enriching his wife.

He got kicked off before he could do the deal. Wasn’t happy to say the least. I personally hope he gets hit by a bus.

In our neighborhood, we have no formal watch program. That’s because neighborhood watch groups have to jump through all sorts of hoops before the police department will formally recognize them.

So, we have people who call 911 if they see something suspicious. Others, who are more hesitant to call that magic number, will call the folks who are willing and they make the reports. We also have a neighborhood association e-mail address where residents can send alerts about non-emergency stuff.

I don’t think there was a formal watch program in Zimmerman’s nabe either. yeah, lotta hoops to go through to be recognized.

Well, well. Well, well, well, well, well, what do we have here? USA Today is reporting that NBC heavily edited a 911 tape to show Zimmerman as a racist. And who works for NBC? Ah, ah, yes, Al Sharpton at MSNBC. And who is on leave from MSNBC to lead rallies in Sanford and other locales? Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

You’d think, after the Tawana Brawley and Duke Rape hoaxes, this guy would have zero credibility, let alone a media gig at NBC. But I guess he’s good at manufacturing crises and conflict and such, which makes him useful. OTOH, who’s zooming who?

Well, that says it all for me. Eff NBC.

C’mon dude. You’re a former metro NY guy. Reverend Al is doing nothing more than schtick. It’s a NYC thing. He’s really good at it and it’s hilarious.

Yes they did.

Here’s the unedited version that I posted last week.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed

OTOH, we could let Goldman Sachs run our local law enforcement agencies the way they run the SEC and Justice Department.

Imagine all the money we’d save, if we didn’t put anyone in jail for anything.

Imagine all the money we’d save, if we didn’t put anyone in jail for anything ??

Imagine all the money we spend because every act is criminal…

California…1980-2011…

One new college campus built…
21 prisons built….

2011…California…

$9.6 Bil on Prisons
$5.7 Bil on higher education
$8,667. per student
$50,000. per inmate

United States has 5% of the worlds population but has 25% of the worlds jailed prisoners

Total number under correctional supervision in the united states is 7.1 mil. people….

We incarcerate 760 per 100,000…Next closest country is 1/4 of that…

This, all has nothing to do with keeping you safe my friend and everything to do with;

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Do you get out much? Because I do and most people seem to think the law doesn’t apply to them.

That’s why we have so many prisoners.

Do we have to many petty laws? Yes… but only because most people seem to think they can do whatever they want.

How many times have YOU heard “I can to cause it ain’t against the law!”

When people have no respect then there must be rules. People who act like children should be treated as children.

Oh please Turkey…I don’t need to debate you…The numbers speak for themselves….

I know the numbers well and they are an embarrassment and damn us as a de facto police state, but that doesn’t preclude the fact that so many people go through daily life thinking they can do whatever the hell they please…. like shoot unarmed people.

Or run stop lights
Or fail to yield left turns
Or cut in line
Or lie cheat and steal
Or play loud music at 4am in the morning
Or drive 60 in a 30
Or drink and drive
Or…. the list is long.

The people at all levels of society of this country have equated freedom with the freedom to be stupid and and not obey laws.

“$9.6 Bil on Prisons
$5.7 Bil on higher education
$8,667. per student
$50,000. per inmate”

Why not just send the inmates to college?

Was anyone’s mind changed?

Sorry it didn’t meet your approval.

If you’re not interested, scroll past.

If you don’t like the direction it’s going, complain about how long the thread was, and question hopefully if everyone else is as close-minded to new evidence as yourself.

Showing your own bias there AS.

Showing your own bias there AS.

How so, dude?

Here’s where it gets weird. You’ll see people on this blog and elsewhere defend these crooks. ‘Oh, they saved the economy, hurrah for the billionaire money printers!’ You know what this thinking is: Stockholm Syndrome.

psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them

The Fed and US Treasury prevented a complete breakdown of the global financial system. The Fed managed to artificially inflate the US stock market and put a floor on US housing prices.

Did it “save the economy”? Depends on whether you have a job today that pays a living wage. Depends on whether you still have an investment portfolio/pension to get through retirement. Did I want Hank Paulson’s bailout to not pass and let “to big to fail, fail”? Yes. Am I sick of the Fed keeping interest rates too low, purchasing treasuries and MBS’s, and generally creating high inflation? Yes. Am I tired of housing prices being too damn expensive in MA? Yes.

When I gave Ben Bernanke the golf clap, it was because he managed to do what I thought was impossible. I don’t thank him, but I am smart enough to understand that my two young children have food on the table, a good catholic school to educate them, and sports to play today, and that may not have been the case otherwise. It could have been much worse for my family and others like it. The price? Inflated food, energy, housing and stock prices, and a transfer of wealth to Wall St… “kicking the can down the road” so to speak. The additional time they bought is not being put to waste. It is time for my family to prepare for a devaluation/hyperinflation/debt default that will inevitably come.

Sometimes things aren’t as “black and white” as we would like them to be. Life is a bit more complicated than that… some of us realize that the saying “the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent” applies to more than just the stock market.

“I don’t worry about the controlled media. They’re practically irrelevant in the internet age. Only the sheep believe their phony headlines and incessant spin.”

As long as you understand the U.S. MSM is essentially a controlled propaganda outlet, you can consider the source and largely ignore it.

“I don’t worry about the controlled media. They’re practically irrelevant in the internet age.

This isn’t true, you need investigative journalism and you need trust in these institutions. The internet is full of garbage that many can’t weed through.

I like how Northeaster says “The Fed and US Treasury prevented a complete breakdown of the global financial system.”

I love how Ben’s stockholm syndrome fits so perfectly with this statement. The equivalent hostage would say, ” The terrorists prevented the bomb from exploding and killing us. ”

In both cases the person making the statement forgot who planted the bomb.

In both cases the person making the statement forgot who planted the bomb.

Who said I didn’t know who planted the bomb? Does anyone disagree that the Federal Reserve and Treasury managed to prevent said breakdown in ‘07/’08? Is that in dispute?

We’ve had a stock bubble, housing bubble, commodity bubble and stock bubble again just in the last 12 years. Who do you want to blame? Congress? Sure, they helped repeal Glass-Steagall. Clinton? He signed the law congress passed. Alan Greenspan? He kept interest rates too low after the tech bubble burst. Bernanke? Not only has he kept interest rates too low, he has used QE to backstop equities, MBS’s, and Treasuries. How about Obama? His administration supported bailouts of AIG, Chrysler, GM, and his Treasury Secratary was the former head of the New York Fed. Let’s not forget executives from Goldman Sachs, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG…

The list goes on. So, who do you want to blame for all the problems we’re dealing with today?

‘Does anyone disagree that the Federal Reserve and Treasury managed to prevent said breakdown in ‘07/’08? Is that in dispute?’

Yes, that is not only in dispute, but these actions have been discredited by what’s happened since. Almost everything they did made things worse. Now we’ve got the negative things you mentioned and a boatload of moral hazard to boot. By papering over the problems, we’re on a road to Japan part two, except we have a negative savings rate. So if we look around 20 years from now and we’re still in recession, I guess you’ll still be giving golf claps to the Fed.

‘who do you want to blame for all the problems we’re dealing with today?’

All the entities you mentioned and the part of the public that supports it, like you.

Who to blame : The federal reserve and the banking/corporate interests driving its policy.

Again.. if the terrorists planted the bomb, do you hail them when they defuse it? No you throw their slimy asses in prison for life for setting a bomb in the first place.

“So if we look around 20 years from now and we’re still in recession, I guess you’ll still be giving golf claps to the Fed.”

Moral hazard, political style: Kick the can down the road today in order to claim credit for saving the world, leaving your successors holding the bag.

“So, who do you want to blame for all the problems we’re dealing with today?”

Boomers! Boomers! Boomers!

“Yes, that is not only in dispute, but these actions have been discredited by what’s happened since. Almost everything they did made things worse.”

so amazingly true.

LOL!

I think what Northeasterner is saying is that most me people (including me) won’t pay the dues to get really wealthy. Sometimes people get weatlhy by luck - early employment of startup etc.. But one can still amass wealth with hard hard hard work work work. I try to avoid that as much as possibble.

is what we have today good enough or even acceptable?

These questions have been asked since the founding of the Republic.

But what you’re saying is shut up, eat your gruel, and be happy you have any.

As Faster Pussycat said in a prior day’s post, we in the US have benefited by the lottery of birth. Born into a country where the rule of law still holds (with a good lawyer on your side). Born into a country where the standard of living is high as compared to the other 6.5 Billion residents of Earth. Born into a country where, for better or worse, the government promotes college education and home ownership to those of modest means. Rags to riches from hard work stories are few and far between today, but they do exist…

That is the hope for our country. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. When this no longer holds true in this country, we will have a real problem. As of today, for the most part, these three truths are still evident.

‘When this no longer holds true in this country, we will have a real problem.’

‘Across the nation, more than half of U.S. renters can’t afford housing at affordable rates, according to the National Low Income Housing Coalition’s “Out of Reach 2012” report.’

I’d say we have a big problem just with the housing bubble, and the Fed is printing/spending trillions to keep prices from falling. Not only should we not “thank” wrong-way Bernake, we should throw him and his wall street buddies out.

From above:

‘I am smart enough to understand that my two young children have food on the table, a good catholic school to educate them, and sports to play today, and that may not have been the case otherwise. It could have been much worse for my family and others like it.’

……..

‘What causes Stockholm Syndrome? Captives begin to identify with their captors initially as a defensive mechanism, out of fear of violence. Small acts of kindness by the captor are magnified, since finding perspective in a hostage situation is by definition impossible.’

‘Rescue attempts are also seen as a threat, since it’s likely the captive would be injured during such attempts. ‘

http://ask.yahoo.com/20030324.html

…and if you can’t afford that good lawyer… well too bad, eh?

God bless you Northeastener, but you’re living in the past.

The numbers prove beyond argument that the middle class is shrinking and is now smaller than the poor and that your rights are being systematically taken away and your wages destroyed by artificial inflation.

The rule of law and opportunities are ONLY for those who can afford it and the cost of living is rising by the double digits every year.

more than half of U.S. renters can’t afford housing at affordable rates

Let’s do some simple math: home ownership is at 64%. Which leaves renters at 36% of the US households. The article states that half of renters can’t afford even subsidized “affordable” housing. That is 18% of US households. So, what we’re talking about is 82%, the clear majority of households in the US can afford housing. The bottom 18%? As Romney was quoted as saying: I’m not worried about the poor. There are social safety nets to help them.

I’m not defending the Fed… I’d vote for Ron Paul in a heartbeat if I thought he was electable. I’ve read Creature from Jekyll Island and understand what the bankers did in 1913 and do to this day. It’s why I make regular purchases of gold (and guns).

But I refuse to spend the limited time and energy I have remaining to me on trying to displace the entrenched system of money and power in this country.

What I will do is spend every ounce of energy I have in ensuring that my family is provided for and that my children have more opportunities than I did. Call that whatever you want…

‘Not only should we not “thank” wrong-way Bernake, we should throw him and his wall street buddies out.’

It would be easier if the Fed Chairmanship were an elected position. Given how many allocation decisions Ben Bernanke has made, perhaps a change should be made to put his position to vote.

It would be easier if the Fed Chairmanship were an elected position.

My vote for weekend topic discussion: Should the Fed Chairmanship be an elected position?

A position that powerful probably should be elected…the question is, should it exist?

How many have 600K to begin with? That much money automatically put him in the 1%.

I don’t have all the details of what his investment into his business was, but this wasn’t a lump sum. Rather it was invested over a number of years and included money invested from family and friends as well.

Also, he was no spring chicken… that was most likely the result of a lifetime of work and savings.

Good point. And, truth be told, as entrepreneurial as I am, I wouldn’t sink $600k of my own money into a business.

Why not? Because of my age. I’m closing in on 55, and am not looking at any pension other than SSI. So, if I had that kind of money, I’d like to keep it in my pocket.

What would I invest in my own business? Well, if the thing needed six figures to stay up and running, I think I’d be looking for angel investors and/or VCs.

What would I invest in my own business? Well, if the thing needed six figures to stay up and running, I think I’d be looking for angel investors and/or VCs.

Exactly why he was on Shark Tank. He had hit the limit of what he could do with his business with his limited means. He had orders for product that he couldn’t produce because he didn’t have the capital… he needed deep-pocketed investors to provide the liquidity he needed to continue to grow the business, not to mention provide for day-to-day working capital.

The funny thing is that the “Sharks” ridiculed him at first. They didn’t understand the product, nor did they realize until someone asked, that he had a signed contract for $8 Million in orders that he needed capital to fulfill.

It used to be MANY moons ago) that if you had $8 million in confirmed orders, every bank in the world would be clamoring to loan you the money you needed to fulfill those orders.

As far as I can tell, banks serve no purpose these days but to help the rich shelter their money as well the money of the founders/BODs.

ISTR OlympiaGal demolishing the stereotypes of the debt-loathing Mormons. She used stories from her growing-up years in Utahrr to pretty well prove her point.

They are instructed to avoid debt but for many the siren call of easy money is tough to ignore, just like it seems to be for most everybody else.

Mormon general authorities often warn about the perils of debt, but most Mormons I know, aside from those wealthy enough to not need to borrow money to buy a home, ignored the financial advice from Church leaders.

Well, they did make an allowance for debt to purchase a modest home, and people interpret that as they see fit.

Wanna save money? Simplify the tax code

That would mean that GE and other multinationals might actually have to pay income tax.

Ain’t gonna happen.

You want your tax money used to build privately owned natural gas facilities? Why? Or for the government to own them? Isn’t that Communism?

Individuals could save a few bucks with a simpler tax code IF (big if) it meant they were willing to do their own taxes by hand. The cost would be no credits or deductions for all the bits that got eliminated. I think it would cost a lot of individuals a lot more than they saved.

And it wouldn’t make much of a dent on the tax compliance industry. The real money is all in the definition of income and whether income is ordinary vs. capital gains. The Ryan budget proposal is to make the reward for getting capital gains larger, not smaller, so it would be profitable to spend way more money on schemes to translate ordinary income into cap gains. And NO ONE has proposed eliminating the need to deduct business expenses from business income to get taxable business profits. Nuts and bolts work for every accountant you meet whether they have an individual practice or work for a big five (or is it four or three) firm.

Eliminating the charitable deduction or the deduction for state income taxes or the child tax credit is peanuts compared to the rest. Eliminating the exclusion for employer provided medical insurance will increase costs, though just a little because your employer will have to track and add on the amount to your w-2 income.

“Obama loves this…the destruction of the masses’ wealth”

I’m sure he sits up at night wondering how he can crush that pesky middle class once and for all.

It’s only protectionism when we do it. When anyone else charges tarriffs it’s just “wise industrial policy”.

GM is trading at $26.16, up 29% for the year so far, out performing the DOW and the stock market in general. GM made 9.2B in profit last year. And all their new factory hires are paid $14/hr and they can’t go on strike (at least for a few years)

Sounds like your kinda company, fruity boy.

Wow

All that with almost $30 Billion of taxpayer money that will NEVER be paid back.

And an IPO price of $33/share.

How do I get in on that ACTION?

Oh yeah - I am not the UAW.

“Oh yeah - I am not the UAW.”

Did you miss the memo? The new UAW hires only get $14/hr. They can’t afford to buy the cars they assemble.

“All that with almost $30 Billion of taxpayer money that will NEVER be paid back.”

GM received 50 billion in loans. Per wikipedia the US gov’t still owns shares valued at $45B.

I think the government will get its money back.

GM is trading at $26.16, up 29% for the year so far, out performing the DOW and the stock market in general. GM made 9.2B in profit last year. And all their new factory hires are paid $14/hr and they can’t go on strike (at least for a few years)

Far be it from me to praise an auto company, what with my heavy bicycling habit and all, but I’m pretty impressed with GM’s current car lineup.

The caddies are sweet and the camaro is right up there with the mustang in my book.

I read about that kind of case while I was back east. The guy had stripped his mother’s assets to the point where she’d become destitute and was living in the county home. He was being prosecuted, thank goodness.

This isn’t about boosting the “economy.” This is about cutting costs to hit the quarterly numbers and boost the bottom line. That said, next in line for new-normal cost-cutting, all of which are happening already:

More tax cuts.
Getting rid of expensive regulations for safety.
Getting rid of environmental protection requirements.
Passing off promises and pensions to the government.
Passing off medical care to the gov (Wal-mart hired lawyers to help workers navigate the Medicaid system).
Making customers do work for you — self-scan grocery and medical tourism.
Getting rid of worker protections for good: minimum wage, minimum worker age, unions, punch-card shenanigans. (There is at least one company who keeps a type of flexi-schedule where a worker can be called in to work within a two-hour notice. If you can’t make that schedule, they demerit you and eventually fire you. It makes it impossible to go to part-time classes or even interview for another job.)

And, of course, further outsourcing/insourcing. If it’s unskilled manufacturing, a Foxcon dorm-dweller can do it. If it’s unskilled servies, an illegal will do it for low pay in bad conditions and won’t complain for fear of being deported. If it’s skilled, it’s probably done on a computer, which means it can be done over the Internet from India.

Some days I wonder that Americans have any jobs at all.

Slavery and war is still an option and don’t think for one second I’m kidding, either.

Carl-

Well, we could steer taxpayer money toward that which produces wealth rather than dependency…sadly, for the past 50 years, as a country, we’ve been interested almost solely in the latter.

Oxide

The BIG one….make all employees “interns” and then hire only the young ones (living at home)….so anyone older cannot keep their skills/resume up to date or buy the latest ipad because they are broke.

That too, dj! Why pay for work when you can get it for free.

I know someone who “volunteers” at the local elementary school, grading papers one afternoon or so each week. She said that a LOT of senior citizens do that to keep themselves busy. I told her that all those goodie-two-shoes good deeds are actually keeping a young teacher aide out of a job.

Well, they do have a point with the self-scan. I was at the grocery store late last night (after a “monologue slam” in Bethesda). My change should have been $10.13. This chain automated coin change a long time ago so my $0.13 came out as expected. I’m pretty sure the check out guy gave me $13 instead of $10. Not postive, just pretty sure because of the location of my change in my wallet. I usually check before I leave the store, but it was after 10:30 and I just wasn’t all that interested. The computer at the self check out wouldn’t have made that mistake, though I expect people steal actual stuff in thost lines.

Then again, maybe the young man had to make up the difference, assuming that I’m not mistaken.

I nailed a fellow customer once, who was stealing at the self-check out.

Doing so is easy, Polly.

All you need to do is have two objects of similar weight. Scan the cheaper one, but put the more expensive product in the bag. Then scan the cheaper one a second time, and put it in your bag.

Voila! Insta-cash savings.

I nailed a fellow customer once, who was stealing at the self-check out.

Did you use a nailgun? Or a hammer?

Details, please…

Wait, they weigh the bags? Really? I don’t think they do that at Giant. You are just putting it on the regular belt. I don’t think it has a scale. Now that I think about it, the one at the brand new Safeway does look like it could be a really big scale.

So you scan the generic “chunk” tuna a bunch of times while putting the namebrand “solid” tuna on the scale? Haven’t the supermarkets gotten the manufacturers to make the similar items in slightly different sizes? And they keep one person there to “help” you in case you can’t figure something out. I just presumed they were mostly there to watch for cheating but were imperfect. I didn’t realize they were just the back up system.

LOL, Slim. My way is with a harpoon gun, tho it is a tad difficult to hide that puppy as I transverse the Ye Olde Food Shoppe. I need to find a way to disguise it. Maybe I need to visit the local pooltable operator and buy a cue. Those often come with protective wooden tubes. Perhaps I can stash my harpoon in one of those.

Polly - depends on the store. The approach I described works at one of the national majors. What works at all stores seemingly is to punch the wrong produce code for fruit and veggies. Want a bag of snow pea pods at a discount? Put them on the scale and enter the code for bananas.

I don’t know if you could physically swap the SIC code on a box of noodles for the SIC code on a box of gourmet crackers, but using the self-service line makes that a possibility. You’d have to cut the codes out at home, then tape them onto the other product while at the store, and do so without getting caught.

Lots of theft at grocery stores these days apparently.

The unfunded public union pensions ALONE just in America is over a trillion dollars. Guess who is on the hook for that?

And yes - they will raise taxes on you and force you out of your house at the point of a gun if you fail to pay those taxes.

Say - that sounds just like Ireland during the times of the hunger. No wonder they do not have property taxes to this day…

“And yes - they will raise taxes on you and force you out of your house at the point of a gun if you fail to pay those taxes.”

Not if there is a taxpayer revolt at the ballot box. How do you think we got TABOR here in the Centennial State?

Those unfunded public pensions will remain unfunded. Here in Colorado it is estimated that PERA will have no funds left in another 10 years or so. TABOR won’t allow them to raise taxes to cover the pensions, so PERA is a goner.

And they know it. Our school district has switched all new hires from PERA to a 403b plan. It will be a sweet twist of fate when our local cops get bupkis from PERA while the little people who work for city hall will at least have their tiny 403b plans.

Say - that sounds just like Ireland during the times of the hunger. No wonder they do not have property taxes to this day

IIRC, it was the Brits who owned all the property in Ireland back then and starved the population into fleeing to the US.

How are they going to deal with the pensions that can’t get paid? Is Colorado going to have try going bankrupt? Do you know any of the details on what the cops, etc. think is going to happen? Because they definitely noticed when a bunch of the employees stopped paying into the pot (because they are now on 403(b)).

You gave a speculative scenario cabana boy, not an already on the record occurrence. (don’t pull a Zimmerman here)

I ask again, when DID the unions get a trillion+ dollar bailout?

Just wait until the pension plans are finally forced to drop that rosey 8% return forecast.

“How are they going to deal with the pensions that can’t get paid?”

Good question. The amount of money that will be required to make PERA whole again is greater than the state budget.

A federal bailout maybe? And probably at pennies on the dollar.

They reduced the minimum wage in Ireland two years ago. No sense the poor folk making out like bandits.

I don’t disagree, given the current state of society, but imagine, if you can, what the police would do in a society where there was no crime. They wouldn’t exist.

I have often wondered what it is going to take to handle the elite enslavers. Legal pattycake sure ain’t workin’. It’s just a cost of doing biz. Governments become nothing more than enforcement, collection and protection rackets for the turds at the top. Of course, sometimes turds fall out of favor and are replaced by other turds.

I have often wondered what it is going to take to handle the elite enslavers.

I think what you’re talking about is the US/EU equivalent of the Arab Spring. Massive civil disorder which may eventually turn into armed conflict and possible civil war. I would say Libya and Syria offer the closest examples. TPTB are too entrenched and the laws set up to maintain the status quo for any other option to work IMHO.

The question is would it happen here and what would set it off? That is the real black swan…

“That is the real black swan…”

Heck, the US goobermint IS the black swan. Who do you think fomented the A-rab spring? Egypt, Libya, etc. And now it’s Syria’s turn.

Then the government just makes up crimes - they just don’t give up power.

And the bigger government gets - the more crimes they make and the more you will commit without even knowing it. Think taxes (even the government can’t keep up with all their regulations), insane environmental laws (like if you fill in a pothole on your own land), EEO laws (google the insanity), etc.

but imagine, if you can, what the police would do in a society where there was no crime

banana-

More laws and regulations = more crimes.

And more jobs for non-wealth producing tax compliance officers, accountants and attorneys. Churn that money, man!

That it is highly unethical to deliberately encourage a non-workable society is beside the point…although the latter clearly is the goal.

Ethics, schmethics. I know. I’m a fool.

And more jobs for non-wealth producing tax compliance officers, accountants and attorneys ??

And-On-And-On…..

aNYCdj, comments like these are why many on this board consider you racist. Why do you consistently single out black people with this argument? Yes, it’s true that black people commit crimes at a higher rate than white people. But poor people do as well. And their english is worse than that of rich people too. Why not make your argument that poor people should commit crimes at the same rate as rich people? Why is it always based on race and why is it always black people? What about latinos? Can’t you make the same argument there?

Exactly this is why we have to force black people to read write and speak English…

Sorry to say this, but your bigotry is showing. There are plenty of black people who speak and write English quite well. And have for quite some time.

” Why is it always based on race and why is it always black people?”

My wild @ass guess: He got beat up by blacks when he was a kid.

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” -Jesse Jackson, in remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). (From Wikipedia)

Travon Martin might beg to differ, but what happened to him is still the exception.

Yes, it’s true that black people commit crimes at a higher rate than white people. But poor people do as well.

Actually, not true. Blacks end up in jail at a higher rate and for longer sentences than whites, even when committing the same exact crime.

Read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander.

Spot on sfrenter…

Cocaine use/possession = Fine & probation…(White Crime)

Crack Cocaine use/possession = Jail time….(Black Crime)

OK no i never was beat up by black people…..Its a MATH PROBLEM people, American blacks costs us the most money so that is where the most savings can come from.

SF renter SCdave….its not race it Stupidity…if you are seriously stupid and wish to use crack well you know the penalties. Again are blacks so inferior they cant even think this one through?

Mass incarceration by flooding the market with the most awful rap and hip hop music possible…It is the jim crow laws…the KKK would be proud of how rap music has destroyed the community….keep em stupid…..

And they fell for it….why do you think i rail against it so much..

Why is it always based on race and why is it always black people?”

Actually, not true. Blacks end up in jail at a higher rate and for longer sentences than whites, even when committing the same exact crime.

Prices falling on a national level don’t help you at all. I’ve gotten to a place where I’m just taking it one lease at a time, but then my savings are increasing substantially every year and I can fantasize that it is my downpayment getting bigger and bigger. Though that is the way I think of it, I can’t say I know that I’ll ever buy. I just can’t see buying a one bedroom, though I’m content enough to live in one as an aparment, at least for now and in a very large one bedroom.

Have you picked an area that you want to live in? I see some Silver Spring prices that look pretty reasonable in the Gazette when it comes out each week, but SS covers a huge area and I don’t know what your commute parameters are. I also don’t know how trashed those houses are on the inside.

We do miss your MLS postings.

Oxide and polly, I think you’re only real option is to continue to do what you are doing: save like crazy, then ditch the DC-area, accept the much lower income you’ll get elsewhere, and buy property for cash.

In the meantime, saturate yourself in available culture, so that if you do eventually move elsewhere and buy, you won’t feel short-changed by the lack of culture. You will already have participated.

Also - remember it’s much cheaper to drop $3K on a decent annual vacation than purchase expensive digs. Live somewhere else that is cheap, but vacation with gusto.

I will never be able to move someplace without this level of culture or close to it. I love it too much. I am a master at finding the cheap lectures and events and getting discounts for the stuff that isn’t free or close to it, but I can’t do without it. Maybe someday I will decide that a big one bedroom is enough, but I don’t think I would ever do it with a mortgage. Hey, another 10 years and I might be able to pull it off. And I wouldn’t really be all that close to retirement at that point either.

Polly -

Minneapolis, of all places, is a cultural paradise for a city of its size and expensive. I don’t know about the past ten years, but for many years - decades even - it was second only to NYC for ticket sales for plays, lectures, etc.

Really and truly.

I love Washington DC culture as well, but I’d never live there due to its expense and climate. Yuck. Profuse sweating from late April through October while standing still does not make for a joyous cultural romp.

When you find yourself getting irritated by lack of clarity re: housing, divert your attention toward planning a trip to Taos, Seattle, San Antonio, Nashville, Chicago, Honolulu. Then go! I’ve found that the locals are as much part of the culture as lectures and museums. Stop in at the right nickel-and-dime diner and strike up conversations - boy, does it get interesting!! Love talking with the locals.

There are plenty of things I don’t particularly admire about myself - but one thing I am grateful for is being comfortable speaking with anybody about anything at anytime. There are so many great stories and personalities out there.

Huh? I’ve been around a lot of tumbleweeds, but I’m not matching up any of my experiences with what you’re saying…

Huh? I’ve been around a lot of tumbleweeds, but I’m not matching up any of my experiences with what you’re saying…

I was a bit surprised to hear about the killer tumbleweeds of Kansas, but hey, I also crossed a desert in Kansas. It was a little desert, but a desert nonetheless.

Wise guy, eh?