The Housing Bubble

“so are Liz and the kids”

Dang, is my face red! But I’m good, too.

Re-emergence weekend! Everybody please out yourselves– just this once? At least go to weekend topics and say hello?

Jas, lainvest, lad, matt, nosingle, cass, I’m betting even Tex are still lurking under new monikers. If Paladin could brave our ire, so can you.

Which Tex? Still miss txchick!

What about Eddie and Joey? Are they still around?

AHansen –

To answer your question of late last night, the elder girl is laying an egg a day. I fear that the large younger one is actually a rooster (no spurs and a medium tail, but massive neck hackles and is acting “roosterish”). The other young one hasn’t reddened yet, but she is a she for sure (sex-linked).

Thanks for the correct advice about laying around Easter. Now I get why eggs are featured so prominently in Easter, Passover and Nowruz. Most likely co-opted pagan rituals that extolled the daylight-linked return of the egg after the darkness of Winter.

MrBubble

PS: In housing related news, did anyone else read that Yglesias article the other day? Tragic.

There’s a more sinister aspect to the Easter egg hunt than just the older celebratory rituals. Let your hens out to forage and they will make their nests in hidden places. Come July or so when you start hearing the explosions and choking from the subsequent fumes, you’ll understand why they send kids out in April to find them.

Next time try Araucana hens and you’ll get colored eggs for Easter, too.

As for the rooster, the sooner you dispatch him, the better.

“What about Eddie and Joey? Are they still around?”

Methinks they got tazed for excess trollery.

I miss Losty (sniff). She hasn’t checked in in quite a while.

I’ll wager Lingus and Captain Credit are lurking around somewhere.

“Next time try Araucana hens and you’ll get colored eggs for Easter, too.” We’re going for Welsummers or Marans for the chocolate colored eggs.

“As for the rooster, the sooner you dispatch him, the better.”

I’m just waiting to make sure, especially with the other one not laying yet either. But I see coq au vin in our future…

Great Easter egg hunt trivia!

Dimedropped from Orlando…. epic posts from the front line.

Don’t know if you guys remember me– never was a proliifc poster. But I still check in from time to time and remember the txchick days, and Jas, and NYC Boy, and even back when PB was GS. Good times.

I do. T’was the purity of your moniker. Seen you around, too.

Those risks which cannot be eliminated could perhaps be mitigated.

How will a pea shooter preclude the drunk driver from t-boning you?

It wouldn’t, obviously. For that kind of event, good life and health insurance are about all you can rely upon. That and a big, safe vehicle as well as some defensive driving…

The “pea shooter” does allow one options other than “cower in fear and beg for you or your family’s life” when confronted with an armed assailant during a car jacking, bank robbery, home invasion, mugging, etc.

As some on here have said, when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away… and I hear they are really good at securing crime scenes and writing reports. Actually preventing violent crime, not so much.

I was armed, Northie. Reagan was surrounded by SS agents when he was shot. So was Benezar Bhutto. By the time you assess, unholster, click off the safety, stance, aim and pull the trigger, a determined shooter has five rounds into you.

James Bond reflexes exist only in your imagination. A sense of false security kills, too….

James Bond reflexes exist only in your imagination. A sense of false security kills, too…

Who needs James Bond reflexes? I’m not important enough to warrant assassination and I generally don’t go walking through bear country.

I shoot every week… have put thousands of rounds down range. Between that, action shoots, competitions, and military training, I trust my instincts and training and experience. What you do with your life is your business, no need to be telling me what to do with mine.

And as a matter of counterpoint to your rookie shooter example, my S&W doesn’t have a safety and is equipped with a Viridian laser… no need to aim through the traditional sights, just point and shoot: where the laser dot is, the bullet generally goes. Amazing what that can do for reaction times and accuracy under duress…

Hamilton said people were stunned and confused by the shooting, and that he saw one woman sitting in her car who was not reacting to the fact that bullets were flying through the neighborhood. He said he ran up to the car and banged on the window, telling the woman to flee.

“Run! Run!’’ Hamilton said he shouted at the woman. “It was like the Wild West.’’

Gunman shoots up Chicopee

The above woman is an example of the sheep in this country. What was going through her head as bullets were flying past her? Wonder if she even new what a supersonic, high velocity rifle round sounds like?

Here are two guesses:
“This isn’t happening! This isn’t happening! People aren’t supposed to be shooting at me! What do I do?”


“What was that loud crack? Was that a firecracker? Why are people running around? Hmm, let me check my iPhone… twitter will have something on this. Maybe I should text Sally… she’ll know what’s going on.”

And before the anti-gun liberal establishment goes ape on me for suggesting a “civilian”, a woman no less, should be cut some slack given her (lack of) reaction to a dangerous situation: Israeli women, as former members of IDF, know exactly what high velocity rifle bullets sound like and how to react… to bad Americans seem to think they know more than Israelis.

The above woman is an example of the sheep in this country. What was going through her head as bullets were flying past her? Wonder if she even new what a supersonic, high velocity rifle round sounds like?

Trained soldiers frequently freeze up the first time under fire. It’s just human nature for a lot of people in a confusing situation.

The above woman is an example of the sheep in this country. What was going through her head as bullets were flying past her?

Was she a sheep or just someone who was raised as if Barney and Disney World, Entertainment Tonight and Cosmo Magaizine was all she needed to know about the world? Cuz if it’s the latter, her world just got majorly rocked and she was frozen in fear.

Was she a sheep or just someone who was raised as if Barney and Disney World, Entertainment Tonight and Cosmo Magaizine was all she needed to know about the world?

To me, that is the very definition of a sheep…

Why are most Americans arrogant enough to think this “world” of Disney/ET/Cosmo exists? Why are most Americans arrogant in thinking misfortune and malice won’t find them, and if it does, fait accompli?

In Israel, that world you describe doesn’t exist. Every able young man and woman trains, serves, sacrifices… In America, it’s the .45%

Sheep, wolves, and Sheepdogs…

It should be noted that our jingle is a highly-sophisticated investor who wrote about and crusaded against fraud in the RE game for years. It was my understanding that he bought this house outright to live in and love, not as an investment (although he certainly did crow about the “deal” he got.)

My home, (and I do mean “home” not “house” is literally 90%+ “undervalued” from what I spent to build it 20 years ago, but that fact is totally irrelevant to me as I’ve no intention of ever trying to sell it. (It is, in fact, in a family trust to ensure just that.)

To those of us who bought to settle somewhere, and who carry no mortgage, (and I take Jingle to be in this category,) the premium we pay over “value” is merely that; a premium we pay for the convenience of not having to wait for the “right time to buy.”

Jingle’s gaff was to tell us that prices in that area are stabilizing, possibly even increasing, and that ANY tract house in Sacramento is “worth” $450K.

Sacramento has a highly artificial market because the county subsidizes house buyers to the tune of five figures (lots of state legislators own there.) On top of the federal subsidies and local RE cartel concessions, the Sacramento market effectively over-inflated 20% on TOP of the national and regional figures. It’s still a mini-DC — at least until the State goes bankrupt in two years– and there IS an artificial demand because of that.

Paladin may be in a sweet spot right now, but his implying that that state of affairs will continue and possibly even increase is, in my opinion, mistaken.

Comment by jinglemale
2012-04-11 02:58:54
I bought a foreclosed house from BofA in Nov. 2010 for $395,000……BTW, we used an FHA loan, so our DP and closing cost came to under $20,000.

oops.

“…foreclosed house from BofA in Nov. 2010…”

I don’t think this one was, though. And if he is to be believed, the (nine!) others are cash-flow positive. Time will tell us, neh?

Well Ben…. I sure would enjoy a scene like that.

Wife got to keep our fridge(even though the realtor asked her to leave it behind; however, the fridge as well as the w/d did not come with the condo and therefore would be leaving with us.). It really is brilliant marketing; give the FB just enough to move on to a rental and then they don’t leave a pig foraging in the house, etc. Probably saves them money. As well as hiring/contracting realtors to cut the checks.

The realtor cut us a check from her own account (same thing happened with an acquaintance, only his check came from a realtor repping for Freddie Mac). The realtor giving my wife 2k said she expected to be reimbursed down the road from Fannie. We did leave the h/w heater, dishwasher, built in microwave.

Most realtors I know that are still in the game have either gotten into property management or cutting checks for F&F. Or offering BPO’s on foreclosures for a few bucks from the banks.

If Mr. Ben cuts checks for broom swept pads; could that possibly make it likely that he is also a realtor? Or just someone making hay? Or things could be different in AZ than in OR and it is not realtors cutting FB’s checks but rehab specialists? Do tell, if you feel like it!

The ones I’ve done, the check came in the mail and there was a list of stuff that had to be done before I could hand it over. UHS usually do this, and the checks I’ve seen were on an asset managers account. I have had UHS tell me they sometimes write the checks on their own accounts.

I am not, nor have I ever been, a used house salesman.

Thank you for your candor and honesty. If you were a realtor; RAL would have 1000’s of apologies to make!

Although there is a bit of truth to the RAL meme; it is not the case in every case that they ALL lie. I still mostly get a kick out of RAL’s posts, though. and take it with a grain of salt.

‘the assumption that he’s going to default’

Let’s look at some scenarios. If a current buyer finds themselves deeply underwater on a house loan, what might happen? Do we assume they will keep paying the mortgage on a depreciating asset, or as we have often seen, they stop paying? They don’t call it strategic default for nothing.

He paid a grossly inflated price. You only have one chance to get that right. A card laid is a card played. He no longer has any cards.

Is it not realistic to presume he is already underwater and will bail as prices continue to crater over the coming years?

What could and what will happen are more often than not, two very different things.

And not everyone underwater strategically defaults, not by a long shot.

Is it possible that he might strategically default? Maybe. But the assumption was made that he would. That it was a done deal.

This is a problem I have with this blog. Many posters make sweeping assumptions and judgments about complete strangers they have never met. I suppose it makes them feel good, maybe even morally superior. Personally I find it disturbing.

Is it not realistic to presume he is already underwater and will bail as prices continue to crater over the coming years?

Like we really know? And have not most of us been “whining” for almost a decade now on how we “missed the boat” and how the housing market was “not fair”? I whined when I got smoked in the housing market, but if FB’s whine now, I know how it feels so I’m not going to kick them when they’re down as many of them kicked me when I was “down”.

There is a subtlety that you are not considering. The guy “loves” the house based on a very shaky assumption of “profit” based on Zillo and wrong math. He has indicated that he is a speculator. What will his emotions be when Zillo says “Oops, you are screwed”? The probabilities are nearly overwhelming.

‘not everyone underwater strategically defaults’

No, many of them get on TV and cry about how they were ripped off by the man, tell us how ‘angry’ they are that their creditor expects to be paid. A lot of them kick holes in the walls or worse. They might stop paying their HOA dues and not care when the community they signed on to goes down the tubes.

It hasn’t been hard for me to make ’sweeping assumptions and judgments about complete strangers they have never met’, because for almost 8 years, I’ve been watching how these people react. You might remember back in the day, I was saying people would walk away when they were underwater. I based this on what I saw in Texas in the 80’s; multimillionaires leaving the keys on the table. It became common belief that you were a fool to worry about the lender.

Now when I said this in 2005, many people on this blog said no way, people will fight to keep their house. Look how it turned out. I wasn’t making sweeping assumptions, but rather applying what I had already seen happen in a previous bubble with people I didn’t know.

There is a subtlety that you are not considering.

That you might be wrong?

many people on this blog said no way, people will fight to keep their house.

Have not many more fought to keep their houses than walked?

Don’t be such a puke.

‘Have not many more fought to keep their houses than walked’

No, millions walked. Even many of those you see on TV stopped paying. A few drained their savings to keep paying, but then gave up and defaulted. You know what fighting to keep the house would be? Getting a second or third job and making the payments. You don’t hear that very often.

I don’t consider living for free in a house they don’t own, holding a sign and demanding that they shouldn’t have to pay what they owe to be doing much of anything.

“This is a problem I have with this blog. Many posters make sweeping assumptions and judgments about complete strangers they have never met. I suppose it makes them feel good, maybe even morally superior. Personally I find it disturbing.”

……puleeez with the sanctimoniousness.

Find me a single individual on the planet who doesn’t respond some way based on the human condition called greed/fear. You won’t because you can’t because that individual doesn’t exist.

Don’t be such a puke

LOL, Where are you coming from BlueSkye? Define puke and explain to me how my implying that you could be wrong in your opinion could be considered pukish?

And why? Because questioning your opinion hurts your ego? Or because you think you are always right?

“I whined when I got smoked in the housing market, but if FB’s whine now, I know how it feels so I’m not going to kick them when they’re down as many of them kicked me when I was “down”.

Did you get to live in a house for free for 3+ years too? How about cheese, did you get and Hardest Hit HAMP? HARDEST HIT HAMP is a domestic cheese that is aged for years on a granite counter top.

“And have not most of us been “whining”

Where do you draw the line at whinig and being pissed when someone has done something wrong? I think it is fair to assume that bankers and Deadbeats both have done something wrong to a huge degree. Along with mortgage brokers, Realtors, rating agencies etc. So when you are pissed at that which has screwed your and other peoples lives up who didn`t buy into it for going on a decade you are “whining”? If someone breaks into my rental house and steals all my stuff and I complain about that is it “whining”? What about people who have had a family member raped and murdered? When they say how they wish they had their loved one back and want the person who did this to pay for it are they “whining”? I just want to know where the line is?

Do you remember Paladin? Did you follow the conversation? Do you see another angle? No. Your personal attacks are sophomoric and caustic auto reflex. That’s what puke means.

I don’t consider living for free in a house they don’t own, holding a sign and demanding that they shouldn’t have to pay what they owe to be doing much of anything.

Point taken, however I think that there are 1,000 simply not paying for every one not paying and “holding a sign”.

There is nothing illegal or immoral in not paying as per the contract’s stipulations. The contract covers what happens if there are no payments being made. That the banks are not acting in a timely manner should not be blamed on the FB’s IMO.

Did anyone zero in on the fact he mentioned he has 10 houses? So I figured the low downpayment celebration was that he could walk if necessary. No skin in the game.

Do you remember Paladin?

Do you remember how much higher house prices were back then? Do you not realize time marches on and things change?

Do you see another angle?

Of course I see the other angle. I wrote: “That you might be wrong”

“Might” implies that I do see the another angle no? It appears that you do not see the other angle whereas I do.

you personal attacks are sophomoric

So it’s now a “personal attack” to question your opinion? Or to question you as to why you call other poster’s names? “Puke”? And worse names you’ve called me and other posters? Do you want me to look them up?

You just don’t like my politics and the way I use logic to debunk you sometimes, but that does not mean you need to call me names.

“Define puke”

puke (pyk) Slang
intr. & tr.v. puked, puk·ing, pukes
To vomit.
n.
1. The act of vomiting.
2. Vomit.
3. One regarded as disgusting or contemptible.

Examples of PUKE

Origin of PUKE

First Known Use: circa 1600

Synonyms: barf, gag, heave, hurl, vomit, retch, spew, spit up, throw up, upchuck

Related Words: disgorge, regurgitate; eject, expel;

“whining”? I just want to know where the line is?

I can’t explain where the line is because it’s kind of like the Supreme Court’s “I know it when I see it” obscenity standard.

But a blurred line is a line nonetheless. And yes, you’ve crossed this line at times as have I.

You’re way off Rio. I don’t recall you being a part of the JingleBalls LieFest.

Housing prices are still grossly inflated…. and falling.

Puke 3. One regarded as disgusting or contemptible.

Thanks for the definition. I’ll remember to call someone a puke the next time they prove me wrong.

“You know what fighting to keep the house would be? Getting a second or third job and making the payments. You don’t hear that very often.”

Isn’t that why we need programs like the one that keeps getting pitched over and over again to write down principle? To help people keep their homes without requiring them to get a second or third job?

Boost for Loan Write-Downs
Published on Apr 11, 2012 by WSJDigitalNetwork

Edward DeMarco, the regulator overseeing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, responds to the U.S. Treasury’s recent push to have the firms forgive debts for some troubled homeowners who owe more than their homes are worth. A preliminary analysis shows that those principal write-downs could reduce overall costs for the companies now that the Treasury has offered to foot part of the bill. But in a speech, he warns that the savings could be quickly wiped out if more borrowers who are current on their mortgages choose to stop paying in order to seek similar terms. The agency will issue its final decision later this month.

“Might” implies that I do see the another angle no? It appears that you do not see the other angle whereas I do.”

Man I took some sh#t called Dragon Fly on a little piece of paper in 1979 and I saw some other angles and then some.

You’re way off Rio. I don’t recall you being a part of the JingleBalls LieFest.

I’ve never been a part of that but how can I be “way off” when I imply you guys “might” be wrong in some cases?

I don’t think “might” implies “way” anything.

Housing prices are still grossly inflated

In many areas yes, but not all. The 110K house I posted yesterday that rents for $850 is not grossly inflated IMO.

Then don’t generalize. We were talking about a specific Puke named JingleBalls.

$110k price tag is just an arbitrary number. It’s meaningless without context and I don’t think $850/rent does a good job of demonstrating context when rents are always in a state of flux.

……puleeez with the sanctimoniousness

It appears that I hit a nerve.

“But a blurred line is a line nonetheless. And yes, you’ve crossed this line at times as have I.”

At times?

Now that`s an insult! A decent man would have just called me a puke.

How is the Unknown Comic by the way? Be sure and tell him I said waaaassssuuup.

How is the Unknown Comic by the way? Be sure and tell him I said waaaassssuuup.

I saw him last Friday. He looked a little tired and under the weather. I might see him at the same place tonight. Anything you want me to ask him?

(He says he was there only at the beginning of the GongShow.)

‘It appears that I hit a nerve’

Not with me. For some reason these loans don’t seem to make me nervous one bit. Maybe it’s cuz they aren’t mine.

Let’s settle some of this right here and now. Oxide, please tell us under what circumstances would you walk away from your house?

No Color…. you’re being sanctimonious.

under what circumstances would you walk away from your house?

Simply being underwater wouldn’t do it, I do know that much. One of my life goals was to retire with a paid-off house, not to make a profit like some FB flipper outta 2005.

What if a neighbor 3 years from now buys a similar house for $75 less? Keep in mind, that’s an extra 25% haircut from the already 38% haircut from off peak. Not likely in DC. Even then, $75 in three years would just cancel out three years of rent, as I have said on HBB, many times. So I still wouldn’t be disgruntled enough to walk.

Besides, there’s no place to walk TO. Rents are so high that I would be walking right into a similar or higher payment. That’s no good.

I can think of some scenarios where I would have to short sale (assuming I go underwater): job loss, major illness, relocated across country, or even marry and move in with the man. But those are major life changes which would cause upheaval anywhere. Those aren’t really walks.

“Rents are so high that I would be walking right into a similar or higher payment. That’s no good.”

Not to suggest the Fed would ever allow it or anything, but what if local rents fell, say, by 10% from their current nominal levels?

Would that make you want to walk?

P-Bear, rents would have to fall 23% in order to fall to the level of my PITI payment.

However, keep in mind this is for a a comparable home: 3-bed townhome vs. a 3-bed SFH on 0.2 acre. If my goal was to minimize my rent, I would have moved to a one-bed apartment farther out. Even that would have at most a $500-$600 difference, which doesn’t add up to much, honestly.

In the end, I’m not sure I understand this “walking” solely due to being underwater. I only understand it in the context of truly being unable to make the payments. That means major upheaval like long-term job loss, major illness, and so on. No, I didn’t wait until rock bottom, but I believe that I’m close enough to the bottom that I can’t fall far enough to hurt myself, if you will.

Some of youse guys even harp on “accidental” flippers. I bought my first house in 1995; cuz I could afford it and it beat renting; ie it penciled out. Mostly cuz I was a bachelor and it had a granny flat. Lived there for a decade and then realized it could be sold for a boatload of money. Then I bought 2 more houses for cash; one to live in; one to rent out. then I sold those, cuz each appreciated 100k in one year; to buy a dream house to live in. Too bad we did not like Utah.

It is not always so cut and dry and those who generalize can be right sometimes but will also be wrong sometimes. And there are shades of gray between a legit buyer; a speculator or anyone in between. Right now I own one rental home outright. Wife and I plan to live in it in a few years; if it goes up in price by a whole bunch, I might sell it.
Does that make me a home owner or a flipper or a bit of both? At least I can’t go underwater on the sucker of that I am fairly certain.

Walking can be stategized if you are paying $2k for the mortgage and you can rent next door for $1k. Then its perhaps time to walk. If you cant beat the payment renting the $$ from the bank; walking when underwater does not make sense.

It’s all about the bottom line

“P-Bear, rents would have to fall 23% in order to fall to the level of my PITI payment.”

I suspect you are fine, so long as Romney doesn’t get elected and eliminate half the DC federal government establishment.

I’m guessing Romney will choose Ryan as his running mate. DC bureaucrats should be afraid — very afraid…

Romney And Ryan: A Budding Political Bromance
by Mara Liasson
All Things Considered
[3 min 47 sec]
April 11, 2012

One of the sharpest dividing lines emerging between President Obama and GOP presidential front-runner Mitt Romney is the budget introduced in Congress by Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., with its sharp cuts in domestic spending and lower tax rates.

Both sides see it as a winning issue for the fall campaign. The Obama campaign likes to call it the “Romney-Ryan budget” — and Romney hasn’t objected.

On the campaign trail in Wisconsin, Ryan was a constant presence with Romney before that state’s April 3 Republican primary, which Romney won.

Romney embraced both the plan and its author, the House Budget Committee chairman, saying he and Ryan are “on the same page.”

How Big Of A Risk?

Linking himself to Ryan’s proposed tax cuts and structural reforms for Medicare was a bold conservative move, says Vin Weber, an informal adviser to the Romney campaign.

“It helped with the Republican base, and it helped unify the Republican Party more broadly than that,” says Weber. “But I think at the end of the day the question is, ‘Will a serious approach to reforming Medicare — and thus dealing with our long-term debt problem — be a winning issue in the fall, or won’t it be?’ I genuinely fear for the country if it’s not. But it is an open question.”

So, there is some risk for Romney. President Obama is trying to make it as big a risk as possible.

“It is a Trojan horse. Disguised as deficit-reduction plans, it is really an attempt to impose a radical vision on our country,” Obama said last week in Washington. “It is thinly veiled social Darwinism.”
…

My current motto: Let somebody else own it!

“My current motto: Let somebody else own it!”

Mine is…..

‘you shot it, Tarzan, you eat it.’

Ben, new neighborhoods in Ca are almost always saddled with direct levies in addition to the taxes on the land and improvements. That rental could have another 2 or 3 thousand dollars/yr owed in addition to the actual taxes. I’ve seen houses in the Sacramento area with direct levies that actually equal the taxes (ouch) I wonder what the monthly carrying costs are for that rental?

Mental image: Property as udders, busily being milked by public servants. Squish, splash, squish, splash, trickle, trickle..

“Ma, the cow’s done run dry!”

Don’t forget the $200,000/year firefighters.

Uncle Sam still wants a cut? Property taxes are at the state or municipal level aren’t they? Gotta pay for all those union janitors $100,000 pensions

Don’t forget the $200,000/year firefighters.

Probably a good job, and it won’t be off-shored.

YMMV. In California, property taxes are limited to 1% of assessed value. An on top of that, the assessment can only increase 2% per year (except when the property is sold)

“…property taxes are limited to 1% of assessed value. An on top of that, the assessment can only increase 2% per year (except when the property is sold)”

That seems like a darn good reason to wait until housing prices stop dropping before buying a home in California.

IIRC, you can challenge your assessment in California if the value of your home drops.

It does?

Then how do you explain Texas?

http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/property-taxes-best-and-worst-states.htm

There is no state tax. They have to make that money somehow. And that 1.81% is an average I think. Mine is actually a bit more than 2% of assessed value. I’m not complaining. I like property tax. If I wanted to pay less tax, I could buy less house.

There are plenty of exemptions to proprty taxes in Texas.

Many rich people pay rates less than that of farmers.

W & friends had their private community around a lake designated a recreational area with a minimal tax rate much lower than the ranchers down the way.

Of course cities now use satelite photos to nab citizens with unpermitted pools and house additions.

“IIRC, you can challenge your assessment in California if the value of your home drops.”

So you might be able to reduce your property taxes by a smidgeon. Good luck talking your lender into reducing the principle balance you owe on your mortgage.

Another one not mentioned, if you’re renting and have sh*tty neighbors move in, you can move. If you “own” and have a houseful of barking dogs and products-of-low-investment-parenting move in next door, good luck with that!

If you “own” and have a houseful of barking dogs and products-of-low-investment-parenting move in next door, good luck with that!

I deal with that very thing. And, guess what, even low-class idiots behave when they understand that their misbehavior has consequences.

Like when Gangbangarella (the young lass next door) had one of her friends show up at 5:30 a.m. in a boom car. I do not like having my beauty sleep disturbed. So, I went outside to, ahem, sweep the driveway. And note the license number of said boom car.

I went inside and dialed the magic number (911) and it took about an hour for the cops to show up. Meanwhile, doofus and her little homie were sitting outside the car, and they had not a car in the world.

The cops came in cars and on a motorcycle. Both kiddies got busted for drugs, and I’m pretty sure that Gangbangarella had to serve probation. Why? Because she did something that I’ve rarely see her do, and that is attend school on a regular basis.

This whole thing went down in 2008, and let me tell you, when that family sees me coming around, conversations stop, people go in the house, and they otherwise do things that tell me that they don’t want me witnessing their behavior.

What they don’t know is that there are at least a dozen other people in this neighborhood who are also keeping an eye on their behavior. So, if I’m not around, someone else will call ‘em in to the coppers.

There’s strength in numbers.

Az Slim - That’s a great story. Nice to hear they don’t much misbehave in front of you anymore. Loved the probation/school on regular basis sarcasm and the when they see you… lol

Gangbangerella
Best coinage ever!

My electric bill is $20 in the winter and $70 in the summer…

Do you heat with natural gas?

Do you heat with natural gas?

That is pretty much the norm in Denver and the rest of the Centennial state. I’ve seen some 70’s vintage houses with electric baseboard heaters.

The heat is included in the rent, and yes it is quite toasty in the winter. And they also clear snow. And do the landscaping. And vacuum and clean the common areas twice a week. They just replaced the elevator and rent went up by exactly $0.

Then that’s a good choice for you, goon. It was a lifestyle choice for me for a long time. (except that I saved up instead of spending on fun; I’m dull that way.) And when I WAS laid off, I could still afford to rent, and did so for a year.

Situations are different, and I respect that.

Since there is no future in Paul Ryan’s America, the squad will have fun now and later as long as there are funds to pay for it, and retirement plan is to start unroped, solo, technical rock climbing at age 70!

Since there is no future in Paul Ryan’s America, the squad will have fun now and later as long as there are funds to pay for it

My friend spent money like water, ate like a king and bought the best cars, guitars and whatever. He never saved a dime but led a happy and free life. Until he got sick and died 3 years later at 43. A big 401K would not have saved him. His was the right plan for him.

We had that discussion last night: Given the choice of the two, would you rather die in your forties in a horrifc motorcycle accident on Chuckanut Drive? Or in a nursing home in your nineties having outlived all of your contemporaries with a tube in every orifice and no remaining shred of dignity?

(rather) die in your forties in a horrific motorcycle accident …Or in a nursing home in your nineties…with a tube in every orifice

Can I die in my 90’s on a motorcycle?

lol - who says you can’t have it all?

Can I die in my 90’s on a motorcycle?

That’s the way to go. Quickly and old.

retirement plan is to start unroped, solo, technical rock climbing at age 70!

“My house purchase was based largely on what I saw happening with the rental market.”

Naw. You were driven to buy a house.

Driven maybe by what he saw happening with the rental market?

My friend bought an overpriced house 22 years ago. It’s paid off now and it’s paying his kid’s college. None of us knows all the answers.

But maybe I’m jaded because I live in a place where they ain’t making any more land, has great views, where everybody wants to live and where RE only goes up.

Rio, if you had followed the conversation at all, you would know that Dear Oxy is very much a she, and that she has really needed to buy something for quite some time. She’ll be fine likely, but the justification alarm is ringing.

Rio, if you had followed the conversation at all, you would know that Dear Oxy is very much a she,

My mistake on the poster. I thought we were talking about jinglemail. However, he or she, I stand by my point.

You guys can’t criticize oxide without really understanding the situation in the DC area in general and in and around Silver Spring in particular. I don’t exactly where she works or where the house is, but some of the listings were in Silver Spring. Well, Silver Spring was kind of trashy for a while. When I moved down here, a friend who grew up in Rockville warned me about being on “the other side” of the Red Line. One of my co-workers moved from Silver Spring to my area two years ago because he didn’t like his wife and baby having to deal with the crowds hanging around in the area and they moved here from Brooklyn.

SS is improving rapidly and so the rents are kind of skyrocketing. Landlord have realized that they can charge a lot more once the Whole Foods and the new Safeway and a few new bars open up in the downtown area. It is a very, very, very localized phenomenon. My rent went up 4% this year and I locked in 3% for next year, so rents aren’t changing as much here, but it takes me at least 25 minutes to drive to downtown Silver Spring that is at 9:00 AM on a weekend.

That being said, there are vast swathes of small houses that may be sound construction, but are not at all open floor plan/2 1/2 bath/4 bedrooms/living and family room/renovated kitchen style places. You can find that (sort of) in some of the nasty townhouses, but the old stuff does not appeal a lot to the HGTV crowd. That stock has come down quite a bit in price now that people can’t buy them, wait a few months and qualify for a huge HELOC to renovate. I don’t know that it won’t come down more, but if you are competing with Silver Spring apartments, then the whole thing is a toss up.

If your work situation is such that you are pretty sure you are staying put for a career (fed offices move some, but not much) and a whole bunch of these little places are within 5 to 8 miles or so of your workplace, then it isn’t a bad option. Personally, I wouldn’t do it, but I have to get into DC proper to get to work and a lot of my preferred entertainment is in DC too. The overwhelming nature of the commutes in DC cannot be over emphasized. They just can’t.

Good points all Polly. Rising rents can sure piss a person off. I’m simply suggesting that there was a rooting urge in this case that trumps math. That’s not to say a euphoria cannot be enjoyed.

Oxy
I am tickled you found a place to call home. I am sure your quality of life is soaring, although getting from the DIY phase, to the completed project phase is a long journey.

We all make lifestyle choices. Oxy made hers based on her well-considered needs and circumstances –and I am thrilled for her. She didn’t buy her house as an investment, she bought it as a home. And there was obviously more to her decision than just the financial aspect.

Somehow I don’t see her as such a potential drain on the nation’s financial system as some of us seem to be implying. I know it’s a reviled meme, but in some places, particularly those supported by ongoing governmental necessity, the market IS local.

Technically, I’m a huge drain on the Treasury. Did I mention that my paycheck says United States Treasury on it?

Polly, I’m not Silver Spring, but not too far away. But I know Silver Spring very well.

I agree 100% on the homes you’re describing. Silver Spring and the neighboring communities are inner-ring suburbs, which means that the SFH stock is mid50’s-60’s era. Solidly built, but obviously built in the middle-class equivalent of older and more formal style. It’s true that the newer townhomes have the modern fmaily-room based floor plan, but it’s still a townhome and thinly built. I’d rather have the older stuff.

Blue, I’m sure my house purchase was driven by nesting instinct, security, what-have-you. But the timing was dictated by the rental market. I had a good job, I was living in a townhome, I didn’t feel any urgency… until fall 2010 when I opened an envelope to see that my rent was about to increase 20% to “market rates.” At that moment, something went *click*.

The BBC show “TopGear” is the automotive equivalent of porn!

My wife reminds me every day about how much I love my car!

Joe: you are right. There is nowhere to walk around there except maybe the golf course. It’s over 3 miles to the nearest grocery. It’s got a walk score of 11 out of 100, 100 being totally walkable. You absolutely are car-dependent, which is a drag with gas prices so high. I know I have been trying to cut back on driving. I bought my son a bus pass and walk to the post office or store to combine exercise with errands, but that’s not an option where Whats-his-spaz lives. Too bad. So sad.

Idiots like him, (Armando Montelongo, Sam Leccima, Richard Davis, Rudy Martinez), are partially responsible for driving up housing prices so owner-occupied home buyers no longer can afford them, but then when the going gets tough, they just file for bankruptcy and walk away leaving a trail of half-remodeled, unsold, upside-down properties in their wake.

Remember though that there have to be people that loan him the money for his investment activities. That’s the root of the problem. Lenders making loans they really don’t care about having repaid. Lenders that don’t retain repayment risk. Remedy that, and the rest of the problems go away and stay away.

“So even the life-long renters are being dragged into their crap even though they are sitting on the side-lines, minding their own business.”

Speaking for myself, I am grateful to rent from a financially stable FB whose $150,000 unrealized loss since purchasing a SFR and turning it into a rental for the first time since it was built suggests that the investment didn’t work out very well. They get to wait for bubble-era home prices to recover, and we get to live without the crushing burden of a mortgage hanging over our lives. Sounds like a win-win, no?

“That’s the root of the problem. Lenders making loans they really don’t care about having repaid.”

Eliminate too-big-to-fail bailout policy and bust up the Megabank, Inc trusts, and that problem will end in a heart beat.

I just get tired of the tenant-landlord dance. Every year we fight about a $50 or $100 increase. We are up to $2850 now and it’s annoying. My kid cannot graduate soon enough. Once he does, we are outta here! For $2850 per month we could have waterfront just about anywhere else in the country.

We don’t fight. I believe our LLs use an area average of rents, which apparently has not gone up over the past several years.

We’ll see how it looks post-QE3, later this year.

Let them eat ipads.

Even the low 100K crowd knows that their income isn’t keeping pace with real inflation. But everyone acts dumb, perhaps out of fear (don’t you dare complain to your boss about no one getting a raise, that just marks you as a malcontent, a target to be laid off)

In that time, the squad has gone from employee of TARP bank to grad student to employee of Big Firm to unemployed to Lucky Ducky contractor to Uncle Sugar’s payroll, but diet has not changed all that much, but everything costs more now!

In my neck of the woods both meat and produce prices are up, especially produce.

Interesting price disaparities for the different geographical regions.

The horror of having to cook your own meals!

But wouldn’t cooking damage the stainless steel and granite?

It hasn’t damaged our lowly laminate counter top in over 10 years.

I love my stainless steel cookware and we use to love our granite countertops.We cook at home and schulp our food to go. We eat healthy, and you can’t do that without effort at our socioeconomic level.

btw, Bar Keeper’s Friend (Target & Wal-Mart $1.80ish/comet type cleanser) keeps stainless steel cookware looking new. William Sonoma sells it pricey to dumb people.

I love my stainless steel cookware and we use to love our granite countertops.

I have both too. From where I’m sitting, I can see black, brown and grey granite tops. Funny….in Brazil, cheaper Brazilian granite is cheaper than Formica. Anything involving modern technology is expensive here while rocks, bricks and cement are cheap.

Go figure.

Sleepless
Being a cash for final home buyer, it has been awful to compete with FHA a-holes, who will buy and stay free, while we are punished for our prudent lifestyle, and willingness to pay a fair price. Those FHA idiots and their nefarious agents are ruining it for us age in place baby boomers. Laying out YOUR cash or OPM is a whole different ball of wax.Can’t walk away from your money.
The cost of money is too damn low.

“The cost of money is too damn low.”

That is about the best way I know of to sum up the past decade.

Az Slim
Your mother is mind kind of clear thinking lady. Glad to hear she has recovered from her surgeries. It’s gotta be hell, watching her life partner slip away mentally. No update for a while about your folks. Anything new?

mind=my oops, mentalpause

And so do his temple moneychangers.

PDF’ed and sent.