How can it possibly pencil out for the owners of these properties to let them crumble into desuetude? Wouldn’t it make more sense to sell them to the highest bidder, than to let them crumble into dust unoccupied?
I don’t know who the owners are, but my understanding, based on numerous discussions here, is that business law is designed to assign ownership. Whoever owns these homes is losing a bundle in physical depreciation.
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Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 06:42:06
business law is designed to assign ownership.
Has business law met up with the MERS yet? I suspect the owners of these houses are unaware of their ownership, and would be appalled if they were made aware.
Selling the property means realizing (booking) the loss now. It his this quarters bottom line - and thus affects this years executive bonus package.
Letting it crumble? Well, that’s loss isn’t “real”. That’s just a theoretical future loss, that hits some future quarterly number, that we’ll let some future executive deal with.
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Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-05-01 08:06:40
Selling the property means realizing (booking) the loss now. It his this quarters bottom line - and thus affects this years executive bonus package.
Looks like redrum just hit it over the center field wall.
Comment by oxide
2012-05-01 12:07:54
Agree. Kick the can is not limited to government alone.
I want you to be afraid. Very afraid of the Canadian housing market.
I want people who are considering buying a house in Canada to be the most frightened. People who just bought a house also have every right to be nervous. But even if you don’t have a stake in the property market, I would like you, too, to be fearful of a bubble in Canadian property.
I’m frightened myself. A lot of smart people are. But I should make it very clear I’ve no desire to be the Nouriel Roubini of the Canadian housing market.
Roubini, for those who didn’t notice, rose from B-team academic to A-list fame and fortune by predicting the U.S. housing and market collapse of 2008.
Before the crash, he was just one more Chicken Little – that children’s story character, who, after being whacked by a falling acorn runs about shrieking, “The sky is falling, we must run and tell the King.”
After the crash, Chicken Little no more, Roubini was Solomon the Wise. Having demonstrated his credentials, Roubini is still travelling the world, dining out as The Man Who Got It Right.
When doomsters are right, they are showered with honours. Think of how religious enthusiast Harold Camping’s star would have risen had the world actually ended last May.
…
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Comment by 45north
2012-05-01 10:26:57
How is Canadian housing bubble implosion working out for you?
right now in Ottawa, housing seems to be doing very well, normal sales, normal prices. I am personally very afraid of housing. I follow Garth Turner’s blog greaterfool. In Vancouver sales have fallen 30% year-over-year. Toronto condo market seems about to implode - Toronto has more cranes under hire than New York City and Chicago combined. Ontario’s debt is out-of-control. The Federal Government is tightening CMHC mortgage insurance ( somewhat the equivalent of Fannie Mae ). Mark Hanson is my hero, he warns that Canadian defaults will rise as high as US. Currently Canadian default rate is 0.5%.
It was the best of times and the worst of time.
Comment by 45north
2012-05-01 10:31:49
Think of how religious enthusiast Harold Camping’s star would have risen had the world actually ended last May.
But, not to worry, Arizona Slim is on the case. If I see an unkempt bank-owned property, I report it to the City of Tucson’s code enforcement people. They lo-o-o-ove getting those reports, trust me on that.
I think the city’s been troubled by the number of neglected houses in foreclosure. However, there are only so many people down at the city code enforcement division.
They need us in the neighborhoods to monitor the situation and, if need be, report it. So, a-reporting I shall go.
Yes it was a great discussion, from which the squad concludes that single, no kids, non coastal people are ALWAYS better off renting. Loan-ownership is for loosers!
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — “Octomom” Nadya Suleman filed for bankruptcy Monday, saying in a court filing that she has as much as $1 million in debt.
Suleman wants a fresh start and said in a statement that filing for bankruptcy is what’s best for her children, according to the Orange County Register.
“I have had to make some very difficult decisions this year, and filing Chapter 7 was one of them,” Suleman said.
The La Habra mother of 14 reports up to $50,000 in assets in federal court filings, which means she owes more than 20 times her net worth.
Suleman is filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which means a court-appointed trustee would liquidate her assets to pay off creditors before she is discharged from most of her debts.
Among others, Suleman owes money to her father, the city’s water department, DirecTV and Whittier Christian School, where at least some of her children are students.
Suleman also owes more than $30,000 in rent payments on her four-bedroom house.
The home’s owner, Amer Haddadin, says his own credit has suffered as he allowed the home to go into foreclosure proceedings by not making the mortgage payments.
A foreclosure auction that was scheduled for Monday has been postponed for a week.
Suleman was in financial dire straits before the January 2009 birth of her octuplets brought her notoriety.
She lived with her mother in a three-bedroom house in Whittier that was in foreclosure proceedings at the time of the octuplets’ birth.
The unemployed single mother had been supporting her six other children with the aid of food stamps and Social Security disability payments — sources of income that she continues to rely on.
Since the birth, she has cut deals with media outlets and posed in tabloid photo spreads to get by, touting a book and exercise videos that never materialized.
She earned $5,000 for promoting spaying and neutering for an animal rights group and was paid to take a beating in celebrity boxing matches.
In 2009, Suleman declined a million-dollar offer to appear in pornography.
Last month, semi-nude photos of Suleman ran alongside a paid interview in a British publication — a photo spread she defended in the tabloids, saying she wasn’t ashamed of it.
All Suleman’s children were conceived through in vitro fertility treatments. Her octuplets are the world’s longest-surviving set.
Not really in NYC..BK delays for a little bit but unless the tenant shows good faith by putting up some of the back rent, judges will let the eviction proceed quickly….
Lots of judges are not sympathetic to tenants who just want to run up the bill.
The unemployed single mother had been supporting her six other children with the aid of food stamps and Social Security disability payments — sources of income that she continues to rely on.
From the Washington Post - Fewer Americans form households after recession, hampering economic recovery:
“The recession reduced the rate at which Americans set up new homes or apartments by at least half.
More than one in five adults between ages 25 and 34 live with their parents or in other multi generational living arrangements, the highest level since the 1950s, according to the Pew Research Center.
“It’s hard to see what’s going to turn this around without better job and income growth,” said Daniel McCue, research manager at Harvard University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. “But the way the job market is going, I don’t see any immediate change.”
What’s weird in our little burg is that under 200K houses are selling, and selling fast. The further you move above the 200K mark, the more the market slows down. Above 300K very little is selling.
My guess is high investor demand at the low end, low end-user demand at the mid-high end. Also, at the low end, you have lot’s of first-time home buyers with FHA/VA low-down payment financing…
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Comment by Rental Watch
2012-05-01 11:07:42
I can’t speak for CO’s market, but I assume the math is the same there as other places that I’ve seen, but the rental yields fall pretty quickly in the markets that I’ve seen as the price of the home goes up (you can’t charge a proportionally more for a more expensive home to rent).
As such, the buy to rent strategies are focused on the lower priced homes in any particular market.
I’m sure affordability has something to do with it as well…
Judge: Counselor, why are you asking to have this foreclosure dismissed?
Deadbeats lawyer: Your honor, the plaintiff can not prove who owns Mr. Deadbeats loan.
Judge: (to Wells Fargo attorney) Well counselor?
Wells Fargo attorney: Your honor, do you think we would have loaned Mr. Deadbeat $425,000 on a house that he purchased for $125,000 in 1999 when he earns an annual salary of $42,000 if we knew who he was supposed to pay back?
A day that is expected to be filled with anti-establishment protests all around the globe began early last night with a roving band of “anarchists” smashing car windows and store fronts in San Francisco’s Mission District. The mini-riot (which was technically on April 30, but still) may have started as a “ruckus street party” organized by Occupy Oakland protesters who invaded their sister city last night, but whoever was responsible appeared to show little regard for the property of either the 1% or the other 99.
Your off-topic, “pro-ownership” posts are annoying, and seem to reflect a delusional belief that by winning over the hearts and minds of those who read here, you can somehow reverse the downward trajectory of the housing market.
What we discuss here cannot remove the millstone of economic fundamentals weighing on U.S. housing prices.
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Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 12:53:16
What we discuss here cannot remove the millstone of economic fundamentals weighing on U.S. housing prices.
Then people shouldn’t freak out so much over people buying or suggesting it’s a good time to buy. Let’s not get lost in group-think. I for one like to hear all sides of an issue, not just my side.
Story linked from the Drudge Report of “youths” and “students” (corporate media’s favorite terms when reluctantly reporting wilding incidents) getting some social justice for Trayvon:
when a few of them get hollow points in the chest from trying to jack the wrong guy or gal
When I made the mistake of living in the French Quarter (Vieux Carre to us locals) of New Orleans during my youth, I learned that since so many people there carried (downtown NO being essentially lawless- especially if you were off the major tourist streets), the standard method of mugging was to get sapped from behind and your pockets rifled while you lay there on the sidewalk, knocked out. They’d take your gun, too.
Yesterday evening was when I took my weekly walk around Downtown Tucson. Was joined by the usual suspects, those friends who’ve been walking with me for a couple of years.
The sunset also marked the occasion of the visit of Michelle Obama. She was at the Tucson Convention Center for a campaign fund raiser.
Since nobody in my little posse had the five figures needed to get into the Convention Center, we padded around Downtown for free.
Well, except for me. I started yelling all sorts of slogans at the police helicopter circling overhead. Things like “We are not the enemy!” “Close Gitmo!” And that perennial HBB favorite, “Jail the banksters!”
No, the cop-copter people didn’t hear me. Nor did the impressive security force on the ground. We walkers were several blocks away from them.
As we walked along Broadway, we passed by a very disturbed looking man cowering inside a bus shelter. I couldn’t help thinking that five figures for a seat at a fund raiser would have gone a long way toward helping this man get cleaned up and off the streets.
This is why need need to publicly fund all elections, no more fundraising dinners or lobbyists to beg….Imagine if oh rom and paul each got $100 million to spend and no more…
I would make an exception if you use your own money…if trump or gates or whitman or even zuckerberg wanted to run….well you earned it so spend it but you get NO federal money to supplement it…
If you can’t roll over Ed DeMarco, run around him. That’s the Obama Administration’s latest ploy, as it tries to arrange one more election-year housing bailout.
Mr. DeMarco is the career civil servant who drew the short straw and ended up as the acting chief of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), which oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He’s legally bound to balance three priorities: preserve and conserve Fan and Fred’s assets to protect taxpayers, keep the institutions running while Congress figures out what to do next, and maximize assistance for homeowners to minimize foreclosures. That last imperative isn’t supposed to come at the expense of the other two.
But don’t tell that to the Obama Administration, which has been hounding Mr. DeMarco to unleash Fan and Fred to write down the principal on millions of home mortgages. Mr. DeMarco has resisted on grounds that it would hurt taxpayers. For this effrontery, Democrats in Congress have tried to get Mr. DeMarco fired and even New York Federal Reserve chief Bill Dudley has lectured his less august fellow regulator to get with the Obama program.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner joined the pressure campaign late last month by telling the Senate there’s a “very strong economic case” for writedowns in some circumstances because they might “increase overall recovery to the investor and the taxpayer.” He’s encouraging Fan and Fred to “take another look at the math,” and he implied the two want to help, if only Mr. DeMarco would let them.
Maybe Mr. Geithner has been too busy with Europe to know what FHFA has already done to help troubled borrowers. Since they went into government conservatorship in 2008, Fan and Fred have completed more than 1.1 million loan modifications and one million “foreclosure prevention” transactions, including forbearance plans, short sales, deeds-in-lieu and more. The toxic twins have also done 10.4 million refinancings, 1.1 million under the Administration’s Home Affordable Refinance Program.
Mr. DeMarco has resisted principal reductions because their impact is uncertain and perhaps costly. FHFA’s research shows that if a borrower is in distress, writing down a mortgage can often cost more money for taxpayers than other loss-modification strategies. Economic models also can’t capture the risks of moral hazard.
About 80% of borrowers with Fan and Fred-backed loans that are underwater—with a home worth less than the mortgage—continue to meet their monthly payments. Why should taxpayers subsidize people who can afford to pay? And what would happen if taxpayers subsidized people who aren’t paying? More homeowners might stop paying if they know the government will reduce their debts too.
Since Mr. DeMarco won’t budge, Treasury is now proposing to make him an offer he can’t refuse. The Administration wants to take a chunk of the $20.9 billion in leftover TARP funds and use it to subsidize mortgage writedowns through its Home Affordable Modification Program. Hamp targets delinquent borrowers or those who can demonstrate financial hardship, and it includes both Fan- and Fred-backed borrowers and those with private-label mortgages.
Setting aside the moral hazard, are these the right people to help? Doubtful. Deutsche Bank researchers found that borrowers who miss three or more mortgage payments “are 70% more likely to re-default” after a year than borrowers who are current at the time the loan is modified.
…
a “very strong economic case” for writedowns in some circumstances
This statement from Geithner has appeared in multiple news stories, yet NOT ONCE has anyone, Geithner included, given an example of what these “some circumstances” are. (hardship-based?)
setting aside moral hazard
You can’t set aside moral hazard. Yeah, maybe it will save “the taxapayer” a few billion, but it will LOOK awful. Can’t Obama figure this out? It’s always the single little scandal, not the big money picture, that brings down politicians, from Slyndra to Macaca.
The only way for moral hazard not to be an issue is if no one knows it is happening. Simply impossible even if the politicians wanted to be quiet for it, which, of course, they don’t.
Taking $100K of “equity” to pay for a heart transplant would be the decent thing to write off and forgive the loan….but never SUV’s boxtox and a boob job…never ever.
“keep the institutions running while Congress figures out what to do next”
If you have to make that kind of statement, isn’t it proof that perhaps you’ve reached the point where you SHOULDN’T keep the institutions running? End them now.
I admittedly am a dunce at Washingtonian maths, and hope someone who works inside the beltway can help me out here. The claim is that the F&F principal reduction program would give 691,000 underwater borrowers principal reductions worth $51,000 on average.
Elementary school multiplication shows that
691,000*$51,000 = $35,241,000,000 (35.241 billion U.S. dollars). Since this would be a reduction in money currently owed U.S. taxpayers, how would it only cost them on the order of $3.8 bn?
The nation’s top housing regulator who oversees mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blew past his self-imposed Monday deadline to decide whether to offer homeowners write-downs of their loans.
Edward DeMarco, acting director of the Federal Housing Finance Administration (FHFA), had said he would make a final decision on whether the government-controlled firms would offer mortgage principal reductions to borrowers who are underwater on their loans and current on their payments by the end of this month.
But the agency acknowledged it would need more time and didn’t say when a decision would be made.
“FHFA continues to work on its principal forgiveness analysis and is in discussions with the Department of the Treasury,” an FHFA spokeswoman said in a statement.
“A final determination on the Treasury proposal for triple investor incentives for HAMP [Home Affordable Modification Program] Principal Reduction Alternative (PRA) is being deferred until we conclude these activities.”
House Democrats have kept the heat on DeMarco to consider reductions of mortgage principal to help borrowers and, inevitably, shore up the battered housing market.
Maryland Democrat Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and panel member John Tierney (D-Mass.) have called on DeMarco to provide more information about his refusal to reduce mortgage principal for homeowners.
In February, Cummings and Tierney wrote a letter to DeMarco saying that data he submitted to Congress in January showed that principal reduction would save taxpayers billions of dollars compared with allowing those with underwater mortgages to go into foreclosure.
DeMarco has said he prefers principal forbearance because it is less risky to Fannie and Freddie, which have already received more than $150 billion in taxpayer help to stay afloat.
But he did signal a willingness to consider the policy based on further review, which is still under way.
“A key risk in principal forgiveness targeted at delinquent borrowers is the incentive created for some portion of the current borrower population to cease paying in search of a principal forgiveness modification,” he said.
During a recent speech at the Brookings Institution, DeMarco said the FHFA’s recent reexamination of reducing mortgage principal for underwater borrowers could save upward of $1.7 billion under a plan put forward by the Treasury Department as part of HAMP.
He argued that even if the agency chooses to move forward, reducing principal would affect fewer than 1 million homeowners, a fraction of the estimated 11 million who are underwater on their loans nationwide.
The FHFA estimates of the Treasury plan show that about 691,000 eligible homeowners would receive, on average, about $51,000 in loan forgiveness. Using a principal reduction program would save $9.9 billion, compared with $8.2 billion under the current version of HAMP.
The costs to taxpayers of Treasury’s incentives programs would be about $3.8 billion, according to the FHFA analysis.
…
I think that the incentive provided by the Treasury is not equal to the amount of the principal reduction.
Bank, if you write down the note by $50k, you’ll save money as compared to going through foreclosure in today’s market, and we’ll write you a check for $5k to sweeten the deal for you.
May 1, 2012, 12:02 a.m. EDT Warning: Fiscal icebergs ahead
Commentary: Without action, massive drag on economy is coming
By Irwin Kellner, MarketWatch
PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) — Unless Congress and the president take action soon, the ship of state will run into massive fiscal restraint come the New Year.
Seven months from now, taxes will rise while spending will be cut — each by sizable sums. This restraint will be imposed even though the great majority of economists would argue that the economic recovery is so precarious that, if anything, the reverse would be called for — that is, lower taxes and more spending.
Let me give you an idea of the magnitudes. Taxes are scheduled to go up by a whopping $500 billion, while spending is set to drop by more than $130 billion.
On the tax side, one-third will come from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. Another 25% will occur as a result of the end of the temporary payroll tax cut, while another 25% will emanate from the expiration of the AMT patch.
The rest will come from tax hikes related to Obamacare, the end of the 2009 tax extenders and a rather sizable jump in the estate tax. There is something for everyone; I call it taxmageddon.
And if this were not a blow to the economy’s solar plexus, consider the drop in spending mandated to occur at year-end under current law. The $130 billion will also affect a broad swath of the country, from defense, to Head Start, to Pell Grants, as well as to states and local governments.
Put the tax hikes and spending cuts together, and they amount to a thumping 4% of our gross domestic product. A speed bump this size would be enough to slow a healthy economy; a weak one such as we are now experiencing could very well stop short and go into reverse. In other words, back into a recession.
And don’t think for one minute that this scenario will not unfold until 2013. It will very likely become noticeable sooner — say around Election Day.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why.
Aware that these icebergs loom on the economic horizon, most companies will shelve many planned expenditures, including hiring. For their part, consumers are likely to husband their resources by keeping their wallets tightly closed. This means, of course, a drop in retail sales.
Don’t look to monetary policy for much help. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke already has the pedal to the metal when it comes to monetary ease. The money supply is growing rapidly while interest rates are about as low as they can go.
Besides, the banks are still parsimonious when it comes to extending credit, while both consumers and business are deleveraging; everyone, it seems, is trying to lighten his or her debt loads.
This brings up an important part of economic theory I would like to remind you of, and it is that monetary policy works best in restraint. When it comes to stimulus, it is necessary but not sufficient. In other words, you can yank on a string but you can’t push on it.
…
‘Over the past five years since the Great Recession began, economists have been waging a religious war over the best way to fix our problems. Keynesians argue that the problem is lack of demand, and, therefore, the best medicine is for the government to radically increase spending to drive the economy until the private sector heals.’
‘The most visible champion of the latter view is professor Paul Krugman of Princeton, who has just published a new book called “End This Depression Now!”
Uh, I thought the govt said the economy got out of recession in 2009?
‘But what about those who say that we can’t afford additional stimulus–that we’re already so overloaded with debt that if we don’t immediately start cutting the deficit, interest rates will soar and the currency will collapse. Just look at the reality, Krugman says. People have been predicting hyperinflation and runaway interest rates for years, and they’re just not happening.’
Straw man; the biggest risk, and almost everything has pointed to this for well over a decade, is deflationary stagnation. The govt and central bank efforts to fight this, using the only tool they have, is money creation and spending. What do you get? Economic distortions and bubbles.
But, yeah, let’s keep putting this clown on the front page:
‘Why does Paul Krugman say space aliens could fix the U.S. economy? Here’s an edited excerpt of what he and Ken Rogoff had to say: Ken Rogoff: Infrastructure spending, if it were well-spent, that’s great. I’m all for that. I’d borrow for that, assuming we’re not paying Boston Big Dig kind of prices for the infrastructure.’
‘Fareed Zakaria: But even if you were, wouldn’t John Maynard Keynes say that if you could employ people to dig a ditch and then fill it up again, that’s fine, they’re being productively employed, they’ll pay taxes, so maybe Boston’s Big Dig was just fine after all.’
‘Paul Krugman: Think about World War II, right? That was actually negative social product spending, and yet it brought us out. I mean, probably because you want to put these things together, if we say, “Look, we could use some inflation.” Ken and I are both saying that, which is, of course, anathema to a lot of people in Washington but is, in fact, what basic logic says.’
‘It’s very hard to get inflation in a depressed economy. But if you had a program of government spending plus an expansionary policy by the Fed, you could get that. So, if you think about using all of these things together, you could accomplish a great deal.’
‘If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack and we needed a massive buildup to counter the space alien threat and really inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months. And then if we discovered, oops, we made a mistake, there aren’t any aliens, we’d be better –’
‘Ken Rogoff: And we need Orson Welles, is what you’re saying.’
‘Paul Krugman: No, there was a Twilight Zone episode like this in which scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace. Well, this time…we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus.’
‘September 15, 2009. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Tuesday that the recession has ended, at least based on the numbers. ‘From a technical perspective, the recession is very likely over at this point,’ Bernanke told a conference.’
‘Bernanke’s remarks were similar to a speech he gave in August at the Fed’s annual retreat in Jackson Hole, Wyo. Since the August speech, Bernanke was reappointed by President Barack Obama to a second four-year term at the helm of the central bank.’
I’m thinking Bernanke was channeling friends on the NBER, though given everything else that has come to light in recent years, it woudn’t surprise me much to learn the Fed has an undue amount of influence in NBER decisions on when recessions begin and end.
‘But even if you were, wouldn’t John Maynard Keynes say that if you could employ people to dig a ditch and then fill it up again, that’s fine, they’re being productively employed, they’ll pay taxes, so maybe Boston’s Big Dig was just fine after all.’
That has to be one of the dumbest of Keynes’ many oft-cited parables. Obviously you don’t grow food or build housing by digging ditches and filling them in again. Wouldn’t it be better to have the would-be ditch diggers provide some kind of useful service for the farmers, home builders and other productive members of society?
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Comment by polly
2012-05-01 07:50:49
I’ve lived in places where the power lines are above ground on poles and I’ve lived in places where the power lines are below ground. Until every place in the US has power lines below ground, there is no such thing as a time when you can’t find a useful ditch to dig. I haven’t lost power in a storm (or even really worried about the possiblitlity) in decades.
Polly, though you raise a good point, that kind of “useful ditchdigging” is clearly not what JMK had in mind…
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 08:32:03
Was spending on armaments during WW2 useful? It got us out of the Depression. One could surely think of better ways to spend that money, but some will take their stimulus in no other form.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 08:37:34
that kind of “useful ditchdigging” is clearly not what JMK had in mind…
Keynes was making a theoretical point- ie that any form of spending that gets money to the common man was effective at reviving the economy. He wasn’t recommending that we spend it wastefully. Only the Rush’s of the world willfully misunderstand this point.
Comment by oxide
2012-05-01 08:47:32
I suspect that Keynes wanted people to dig holes and fill them again in the same sense that Jesus wanted those rich folks to pull beams out of their eyes.
Comment by polly
2012-05-01 08:53:54
There is no reason to think that JMK would not have perferred useful infrstructure spending to his hypothetical dig ditch/fill it in. He was making a rhetorical point that getting money into the hands of working people was necessary to get demand up, no matter what you were paying them to do. Finding a useful thing for them to do is just icing on the cake, though, of course it costs more to do something useful than it does to just dig a hole and fill it in over and over again.
Comment by The_Overdog
2012-05-01 09:11:03
He was making a rhetorical point that getting money into the hands of working people was necessary to get demand up, no matter what you were paying them to do.
——————–
I agree that that was his point, but unless something along the lines of ‘Amish work ethic’ is a necessary component to his economic theory, then the rhetorical point breaks down and quickly. I think it was his way of skirting around the issue and it honestly makes the theory come off as half baked.
“Pay people and they buy stuff”. Thanks for the tip professor. We’ll get right on that.
“Keynes was making a theoretical point- ie that any form of spending that gets money to the common man was effective at reviving the economy.”
So then you could encourage spending on meth production or pay people to go around the neighborhood with a hammer, putting dents into other people’s cars or breaking their living room windows. Then you could pay others to counsel meth addicts or make sure they stay comfortably imprisoned, and pay others to do body work on the dented cars or to repair the broken picture windows. Pretty soon the economy would really be humming, as it matters not whether an activity is useful, but just whether there is an activity that gets money into people’s hands.
Thanks for the enlightenment!
Comment by The_Overdog
2012-05-01 14:02:25
but just whether there is an activity that gets money into people’s hands.
———–
If the only thing that is important is getting the money into people’s hands [and not whether the activity they do creates value], why have them work at all? Shouldn’t they just hand out checks ala Gegory Bush Jr’s Stimulus?
Is having people work and giving them money for that work really the most efficient way of distributing money if your primary goal is to get money to the hands of the individual worker as Keynesian Economic Stimulus?
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 15:29:03
encourage spending on meth production or pay people to go around the neighborhood with a hammer, putting dents into other people’s cars or breaking their living room windows
Hmm, that wouldn’t be a straw man, would it?
How useful was spending on bullets and bombs in WW2? They broke a lot of windows, and coincidentally brought us out of the Depression. Bastiat never had to answer that one.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 15:40:51
why have them work at all?
Giving money to people for not working creates its own problems. But it would work as far as economic stimulus- quite well.
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-05-01 18:23:27
The profligate borrowing of one person is generally averred to be bad for that individual, but collective borrowing is good for the economy? We see that this does not hold true, because of the flexibility of prices. The increase in monies without a commensurate increase in enterprise pushes prices up. While debt increases, affordability of goods decreases. The only “good to the economy” is concentration of wealth at the center, because of higher money velocity, as the center takes a cut of all transactions. The increase of collective debt also increases the dependence of the individual on the central powers, as wealth is concentrated in the center.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 19:10:33
We see that this does not hold true, because of the flexibility of prices.
Except for all those times it worked during the 50 years we followed Keynesian economic theory. But of course it was different then.
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-05-01 20:06:31
I think a lot of what Keynes wrote was around for over a century before him. He was an economic theory historian. Really, we could have been pretending to follow just about anything and looked good during the greatest expansion of debt in history.
Rather, it would be an illustration of the patent absurdity of your above posts:
…any form of spending that gets money to the common man was effective at reviving the economy…
How useful was spending on bullets and bombs in WW2? They broke a lot of windows, and coincidentally brought us out of the Depression. Bastiat never had to answer that one.
…getting money into the hands of working people was necessary to get demand up, no matter what you were paying them to do.
…Giving money to people for not working creates its own problems.
Doing nothing is less wasteful than deliberately breaking windows, only to create work for the glazier. The latter wastes energy which doing nothing does not.
Self-contradiction is unbecoming.
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-05-01 22:11:38
Too tempting to add another coment after “Done”.
Your compulsion is no match for the compulsion to borrow and borrow to keep up the illusion of actual prosperity.
I was “Done” trying to make a point for poor Bastiat (dead men tell no tales, supposedly).
But I wasn’t claiming to have the last word on debtbeathood…
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-02 04:38:21
Face it. Bastiat’s broken window theory died in WW2, when spending on arms etc actually ended the Depression. You might not like it, you might call it absurd, but it’s true nonetheless.
Self-contradiction is unbecoming.
Giving money to people will end a depression but will create its own problems. That’s not contradictory. There are problems other than depressions.
we could have been pretending to follow just about anything and looked good during the greatest expansion of debt in history.
The debt expansion from the war, that every pot-war pres paid down until Reagan? Or the debt expansion that started under Reagan, who switched us from Keynesian theory to Monetarism? I agree, Reagan’s credit bubble was unsustainable, since the money all went to the wealthy.
Europe is currently experiencing the failure of Austerianism. We’ll see what pulls them out of their depression, after they give up on Austerity. My money’s on Keynes.
Hey folks, how did we get into this mess? Talk about that. Who benefitted? Did future generations benefit? Who will be stuck with the debt?
Krugman’s more intelligent argument is that we should wipe out the debt by inflating it away. As opposed to defaulting it away. This way the federal government gets rid of some too.
‘Krugman’s more intelligent argument is that we should wipe out the debt by inflating it away.’
We just saw this movie:
‘January 13, 2009 We’re All Keynesians Again
Nobody can accuse the government and the Fed of inaction’
‘With a federal-funds interest-rate target near zero, the Fed has pumped tons of newly created dollars into the economy over the last four months. This has doubled the monetary base (bank reserves and currency), a phenomenal increase that has shocked market watchers and raised fears of inflation. But all economic indicators are flashing recession.’
‘Last year’s crash was caused primarily by the deflation of a real-estate bubble that those two government-sponsored behemoths, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, had a large role in inflating. As the Japanese demonstrated in 1990, real-estate crashes cause far more collateral damage than mere stock-market slumps.’
‘What the Fed has mainly been doing since Black September has been transferring economic resources to government from the private sector on a massive scale. The government is the main beneficiary of the phenomenal rise in the monetary base. Paul Krugman of the New York Times has asserted that the Great Depression lasted 10 years because the New Deal didn’t spend enough. Japan tried to spend its way out of its postbubble malaise in the 1990s but ended up with a mountain of debt and a “lost decade” of little or no economic growth.’
‘Nevertheless, the incoming Obama administration is promising close to a trillion dollars in fiscal stimulus, and the Bernanke Fed seems to believe the way to deal with a collapsed bubble is to reinflate it.’
‘In 1935, six years after the 1929 Crash, the U.S. remained mired in the Great Depression — as it would be for five years more. At a congressional hearing, then Federal Reserve Chairman Marriner Eccles told Rep. Thomas Alan Goldsborough (D., Md.) that there was very little the Fed could do beyond what it was already doing to pull the country out of the doldrums.’
‘You mean you cannot push on a string,” said the congressman. ‘That is a very good way to put it,” replied Mr. Eccles. “One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’
Let us not make the well-propagandized mistake of conflating Monetarism- flooding the financial system with money at superlow rates- with Keyensian theory, which calls for this money to go to the little guy.
They are quite different things, though the MSM and the PTB clearly would love to have us think of the two as the same.
Comment by measton
2012-05-01 10:40:30
The problem of course is all that money is ending up in a small # of hands. If the gov let the banks fail and instead used all the money to create jobs, yes building infrastructure, running high speed internet everywhere, high speed rail, etc etc. The money would go to many hands. This would work in a closed system to stimulate the economy, but due to our free trade system with slave labor states this money seeps away and is less effective.
“One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’”
This is true for the FED, but the gov can stimulate the economy by spending. The great depression was brought to an end by increased spending, first by the new deal and then the war, with a brief interlude of spending cuts and higher taxes that cut the recovery short. Again the problem now is free trade dilutes the benefits.
The bottom line is a bursting bubble is going to be hard no matter what you do. With stimulus spending if done right you end up with better roads, better technology infrastructure, better educated citizens. With austerity you end up with a lot of poverty and decay, crime and a much higher risk of societal collapse.
I see lots of critics of Keynsian spending where there are examples where it has worked. Does anyone have an example of a government that practiced austerity in the face of high unemployment, and low demand that ended well?
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-05-01 11:16:45
What we’ll do is we’ll inflate away the debt without telling people that we’re inflating away the debt, because we’ll keep monkeying with the CPI measures so that CPI doesn’t look so high, even though people are buying ground beef for what tri-tip used to cost.
How does that sound?
Comment by aNYCdj
2012-05-01 12:01:42
Well in the middle of this depression…almost ALL the job training funds in NYC have dried up maybe for the rest of the year.. hope and change my azzzzzzz
——– Was spending on armaments during WW2 useful? It got us out of the Depression. One could surely think of better ways to spend that money
‘That is a very good way to put it,” replied Mr. Eccles. “One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’
As America contemplates the increasingly realistic prospect of a Mormon occupying the White House, it is refreshing to note that LDS church members have held high positions in government at least back to when Marriner Eccles occupied Ben Bernanke’s current post, during FDR’s presidency.
I like the “pushing on a string” quote; is Eccles attributed with this expression, or was there an earlier instance of its usage?
“With stimulus spending if done right you end up with better roads, better technology infrastructure, better educated citizens. With austerity you end up with a lot of poverty and decay, crime and a much higher risk of societal collapse.”
I can see why Republicans favor austerity, as the increasing wealth of the 1% would appear all the more impressive against the backdrop of a shelled-out, crime-ridden, Third World economy.
The problem is decreasing demand and increasing abillity to produce goods.
Technology has decimated jobs in the US, one itunes worker displaced 1000 sales jobs, Big box destroyed mom and pop, and now even big box employs too many, as we move into the Amazon.com era. Farmers produce more with less. Even manufacturing the bedrock of the middle class is done with robots and slave labor overseas. No one is addressing this. Our housing bubble and world wide credit bubble have hidden these things but without the massive expansion of credit the entire thing collapses. The freemarket will not address this. Take it to the extreme ie robots can produce 50% of what a fully employed population needs and figure out where the economy will go.
I want someone to address how austerity, and the free market will correct this. Certianly our current program of further concentrating the wealth won’t solve the problem.
Nice article on the death of the middle class
finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-fails-stem-middle-class-003000342.html
I have to admit that I’m part of the problem. If I need something I usually buy used (cheaper) on eBay or Craigslist, and I suppose it helps the “green” movement.
“I want someone to address how austerity, and the free market will correct this.”
It won’t.
Thanks to the combined effects of globalization driving down the equilibrium wage level, and academic economists demonstrating convincingly through impenetrably complex technical arguments that the minimum wage does not lead to higher unemployment, we have something like 88 million discouraged (not unemployed) U.S. workers on the sidelines. Of course, nobody can claim they are paid less than the minimum wage.
Ron Paul versus Krugman, on Bloomberg. Krugman is advocating inflation, which on top of zero interest rates, will decay/steal non-debtors wealth at an even faster clip. And the hand-to-mouth debtors might not do so well either.
Oh, and “reckless” is the new meme/counter-meme.
Krugman Says Fed ‘Reckless’ to Allow High Jobless Rate
By Timothy R. Homan and Trish Regan - May 1, 2012 12:00 AM ET
Bloomberg
Krugman, whom Bernanke hired at Princeton in 2000 when he was chairman of the economics department, has said the Fed should tolerate inflation of 3 percent to 4 percent to boost the economy and put Americans back to work. He was responding yesterday to Bernanke’s comments last week that pursuing such a policy would be “reckless.”
Representative Ron Paul of Texas, appearing on the same show, rejected Krugman’s argument for higher inflation. Paul, who has written a book titled “End the Fed,” blamed governments for “debasing” their currencies.
“Inflation is theft,” said Paul, a Republican presidential candidate who said he will stay in the race until his party’s convention in August. “You’re stealing value from people who save money. It really destroys an important feature of the economy — and that is saving.”
It really destroys an important feature of the economy — and that is saving.”
Not if your savings are in gold, which is quite doable.
Problem solved, eh?
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-05-01 10:02:11
he has said the Fed should tolerate inflation of 3 percent to 4 percent to boost the economy and put Americans back to work. He was responding yesterday to Bernanke’s comments last week that pursuing such a policy admitting our inflation rate was already higher than thatwould be “reckless.”
Comment by measton
2012-05-01 10:47:11
That’s one thing I disagree with Krugman on.
Inflation should not be the goal creating jobs should be the goal. The country is crumbling roads schools infrastructure energy independence could all be tackled.
Pumping free money into the system alone has only created weatlh for speculators. Higher food and fuel mean lower consumption of manufactured goods and services which means higher unemployment. I’ve never seen him address this. I think his belief is that if the value of our currency falls that we will be able to export ourselves out of this mess and that ain’t going to happen.
The problem now is that a much smaller fraction of the world population is needed to produce the goods for everyone due to technology. No one addresses this issue.
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-05-01 10:55:19
The problem now is that a much smaller fraction of the world population is needed to produce the goods for everyone due to technology. No one addresses this issue.
Which makes the current attempts to restrict access to family planning all the more baffling. Especially in a world needing fewer people.
Comment by goon squad
2012-05-01 11:49:22
A world needing fewer people? Tell that to Jimbob Duggar and all the fundy “quiverful” advocates who don’t care about the future of the environment since they’re all getting raptured anyway.
Comment by measton
2012-05-01 12:21:40
I’m all for population control and believe the limits of natural resources but that wasn’t my point.
If you need 80 people to produce the goods required of 100 employed people then 20 people are fired.
Now you may need 65 people to produce the goods needed for 80 employed and 20 unemployed people. So 15 are fired.
Now you only need 55 people to produce the goods needed for 65 employed adn 35 unemployed people.
Now of course employers seeing all the unemployed people feel they can treat current employees like sht. They cut their pay and benefits adn job security. These people then cut spending
Cutting population only decreases demand further. As does the hoarding and saving that go on when you see people next to you fired and down sized and poor.
This isn’t cyclical this is structural. A MASSIVE global debt bubble hid this for a while but without massive growth this is only going to get worse.
Comment by In Colorado
2012-05-01 12:52:06
“Cutting population only decreases demand further”
This is the conundrum of capitalism. Sooner or later, global population is going to shrink. What happens if we go from our projected peak of 9 billion people down to say 1 billion peeps? Granted, this wouldn’t happen overnight, it could take 100 years or longer.
Would entire cities would be abandoned? How would “capitalism” handle year after year after year of negative economic growth, especially as populations age and produce and consume less?
Comment by sfrenter
2012-05-01 14:34:07
How would “capitalism” handle year after year after year of negative economic growth
It can’t. And the planet cannot support unlimited growth.
A view of Beichuan, China, in May 2008, following an earthquake that killed more than 50,000 people. The city may be rebuilt elsewhere, leaving the original version abandoned. See more pictures of natural disasters.
Chien-min Chung/Getty Images
In May 2008, officials in the Chinese province of Sichuan announced that the city of Beichuan may be moved to a neighboring county, leaving the old city abandoned [source: NPR]. Beichuan was one of the areas hardest hit by an earthquake earlier that same month, which killed more than 50,000 people. The quake destroyed most of the buildings in the city, and those left standing were deemed unsafe for human habitation.
If abandoned, Beichuan will become a ghost town. This term evokes images of tumbleweeds blowing through dust-choked streets in the western United States, rickety wooden buildings the only remnants of a boomtown built around gold or silver that eventually ran out. But Beichuan is a modern place — and it could soon be a modern abandoned city. It’s hardly alone.
There are modern abandoned cities around the world, and each seems to have an equally interesting story behind it. Some, like Beichuan, were abandoned following a disaster. Others, like San Zhi in Taiwan, were left derelict for more esoteric reasons. And in some cities, such as Detroit, certain districts have been forsaken.
The stillness that surrounds these towns seems almost palpable — and it’s strange to think that neighboring cities are still full of bustling people. Perhaps it’s our ability to relate to the people who lived here that make modern ghost towns so haunting.
Whatever our attraction to abandoned cities may be, it’s difficult not to be engrossed by them. In that spirit, here are five modern abandoned cities you might find interesting.
…
They really don’t want to. They can’t be absolutely sure that the public will blame the other guys (whichever side you are on). But I doubt anyone is going to fix this before the election. Could be wrong, but one side has to blink to do it and I don’t see anyone ready to blink in this town.
What’s the problem? We’ll be taking in more money and spending less. Our deficit will be smaller, no? We’ve been told this is the solution to our problems.
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Comment by In Colorado
2012-05-01 09:31:01
I suppose it depends on who the take the lion’s share of the money from. If it’s from the middle class, who tend to spend most of their income, it could affect the economy. If it’s from the richies, who tend to sit on their hoard of cash as opposed to spending it all, then perhaps not as much.
Comment by Posers
2012-05-01 09:32:17
Cutting paychecks while spending less is not much different than austerity.
If you want to make progress, you keep paychecks the same while spending less.
Fewer dollars in everyone’s paychecks means less tax take for government. It also very likely means greater unemployment.
“Unless Congress and the president take action soon, the ship of state will run into massive fiscal restraint come the New Year.”
And if they do take action, they’ll be an even worse squeeze down the road. Generation Greed will leave behind higher taxes, diminished public services and benefits, and a lower standard of living. And they want to delay that reckoning as long as they can.
Got a teaching gig for the rest of the year; working everyday, teaching 4th grade. Little steps…long term subbing beats regular subbing; even though it means I won’t be working at my kids’ school for the next 6 weeks; which is where I have been working on making inroads. So that will have to wait while I answer another door of opportunity.
Doing a good job for the teachers I work for (and being popular with their students) pays dividends; and hopefully 6 weeks will make me a much better known entity to another school administration and its group of teachers. I am stoked, even though it is but for a short time.
Can I buy a house now? I wonder if it would be more , assuming I am interested in buying in order to lower my monthly expenses. Which sounds most prudent?
1)Try and get a fha loan; putting 3% down and having a lower PITI than the $1000/mo. I pay in rent. I see marginally livable looking pads, in the right district zoning for the kids, offered up by Fannie, for instance, for 80k. Yes I would be kicking the tires before purchasing a foreclosure.
2) I could pay cash for such digs and avoid most of my monthly rental expense. But risking 80k in its totality does not sound as enticing as putting 3k (equal to first, last, deposit on another rental) at risk, even if buying outright would be lowering the monthly nut much more; it would effectively wipe out the savings account.
3)Keep renting and try to work as much as possible to avoid losing all of our savings. When I get a full time job and have held it for a couple years; think about buying then.
In an atmosphere of falling prices, putting but 3k down allows an “out”; (known here as “walking”). But if the market has really hit bottom for starter homes here, which is not likely I know. However, some historic metrics have been met due to the bubble bursting. Places that went for 250k in 2006 are now being sold at 100k (3x median income has been achieved for the low end of the market; also 100x rent). Right now we pay 1k for a home that would sell for 100k.
I am skeptical and wonder if the FHA would really loan to me (if there are still no-doc federal programs as Ben has said). Because I have a job, savings, down payment of 3% to 20% or more, and 725 FICO. Income, not so much,
So should I wait, buy a shack for cash, or jump into a loan from whence I know not where the long-term income will come from….
You still don’t get it, Mike. You are better off without savings. You need to check the rules in Oregon, but I think most states protect your primary residence in bankruptcy. And a lot of hospitals also don’t consider your primary residence when deciding if you qualify as medically indigent. Stop thinking like a person with a middle class income. You don’t have one. Your kids are on s-chip. You are on food stamps. Cash in the bank is money that anyone can take from you if you have an emergency.
You need to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer to get the details so you know the exact rules, but if a primary residence house is protected from being liquidated to pay off creditors, then that is where you need to put your money. Secure a roof over your kids heads. You need to set up your life so you can survive on two part time minimum wage salaries.
Au contraire, Polly, I do get it. Our income sucks. We need to protect it by sinking it into a primary residence.
But that does not mean we are not combatting our income situation; in the ways you have outlined and others. I CAN get a teaching job (I had one in another part of the state which I gave up to live here in Central Oregon. We will repeat and relocate for a job when/if it becomes necessary); They also pay me $20.00 to $25.00/hr to do the job I already have. Which has become mostly daily as I establish myself as a desired sub that will follow lesson plans; leave notes, etc. And here the teacher picks the sub so those who promote themselves successfully get work. Not minimum wage; which I feel compelled to tell you is still a low wage but it is not minimum wage. It is better than min wage due to my licensure that I got in college. Not attributable to my BA but my post grad licensure program(and to keep this I need a Masters). As far as in state, after work programs, these are my options: ESL, Special Ed, or (a MS in) Councelling.
It is in my best interest to put the savings into a house so they don’t get taken by some other emergency in our lives. I agree but it seems strange to hear from the “stay away from housing” crew to buy a house; with all my savings mind you.
Anyone have any different suggestions?
Even with nanny state benefits and the rent paid; and using all the tactics you outlined where we reduce our bottom line; min. wage would not make ends meet even if my wife and I worked full time at this rate.
They don’t pay teachers that low just yet. It ain’t middle class, as a sub, I know. I am finding, though, as I make more contacts; I get more sub jobs. As I get to know more administrators/teachers, I raise my chances of procuring a teaching position for myself. Plus I will be specializing in niche areas that have some demand when I go about getting my masters.
I do not believe that subbing jobs for myself will dwindle to 0; I have established myself with several teachers as their go-to person. More people in the sub pool will not change their loyalties. I also have experience doing private tutoring that I can also do. I do not expect to make “minimum wage” forever.
Wife is putting in hours so as to be a good candidate for a job at the school that includes benefits, although only $11.00/hr.
I am setting myself up to be qualified and desirable for a middle class teaching job with benefits. I know of a man who subbed for 7 years before getting a tenured position. He did not get his job by throwing in the towel and resigning himself to a fate of never making it to middle class.
My plan is to put our $$ in a house; all of it. Before I spend it or it gets spent for me.
Thanks, in part, to your insistent, but accurate, advice.
Preparing for the worst isn’t the same as giving up. It is just preparing for the worst. If your family was forced to live on two part time minimum wage jobs, you and your wife would qualify for Medicaid. With all of your health care covered, food stamps, earned income tax credit/child tax credit (assuming thery aren’t removed from the tax code) and a paid for house, your family could probably survive. I am also taking into account your oft stated desire to keep your kids in one particular school district where they are happy and doing well.
You have no idea if your current success with getting substitute gigs will continue. It looks good now and that is great, but they could change the rules in a way that cuts you off. What if they stop allowing the teacher to pick the subs? What if a lot of teachers in the county are laid off and they make a rule giving subbing priority to the laid off teachers? You can’t know that they won’t.
And don’t take out student loans to get that master’s degree. They aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. Don’t do it.
You don’t have the luxury to take out any loans. You don’t even have the luxury of draining your money on rent “until things get better.” And you certainly don’t have the luxury of being “enticed” into anything. Buy a home outright and make sure it’s in good condition where you can hole up on very little income.
Just wanted to insert this little find:
“Moreover, you can take cash early without penalty from a regular IRA, but not a 401(k), to pay for higher education, make a down payment (of up to $10,000) on your first house.”
Polly,
If I transfer $10K directly into our escrow acct from my IRA (I’m 55) will that constitute part of the down payment, even if we are putting down 100%? Or can they disqualify it, when they see no MID? I would love your opinion.
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Comment by polly
2012-05-01 20:26:21
No idea off the top of my head. Ask again tomorrow and I’ll try to find something. I’d check the IRS website first. Search for a publication on IRAs and their rules. That is where I would look first.
I used to print out the IRS publications to bring to open book exams when I was in law school. Way better than most of the commercial resources on the details, and they often have an index.
You gotta be kiding overdog; they would kick me off the blog!
Housing and landlording is why I have any $$ to begin with. But times have changed; they actually seem similar to the time I first got into real estate as a cheaper place to live, in 1995. But things will likely not explode again in the same way as it did 1996-2006, so I am asking some questions before taking a risk with investing the savings in an a)leveraged or b)paid-in-full house.
Maybe the fact that I have landlorded for 17 years, which has allowed for a middle class standard of living, or better, and it has been my best paying, longest standing, job in my life is what gives me pause? Or why I bother taking my lumps here. Oh, BTW, congratulations to self for my, albeit temporary, placement in my field. Makes me feel like embracing permanent minimum wage jobs a bit less in all honesty, becoming more employable in my field shouldn’t be overlooked by you all.
RE paid me off handsomely by investing 60k in 1995; will it do so again if I roll the dice? Polly is probably seething just to hear this kind of “Donaldesque” talk, but I have heard and respect your advice, Polly, and likely it is the path I will follow most closely for my own circumstances.
But IF it pencils out; and I know I can keep it rented out; it is the “profession” I am most used to; why not landlord a property or two? Not by accident. And having learned a thing or two regarding screening tenants.
I would still rather use my degree and get a teaching job, not landlord, and have a paid for house. But getting my druthers is not tantamount; its the kids, silly!
Wouldn’t I like not to be the only destitute ducky (that has not fled to be with own kind)on this blog. Plenty of duckies would like to have my choices with what to do with some savings.
What are the answers for the hundreds of millions of people in this country working ducky jobs that don’t translate into savings. who don’t have 100k. May not matter for my situation directly; knowing lots are never going to have any savings just means more tenants to rent to. Also, I will be competing with these folks for the almighty $$. I could use the savings like overdog suggest to have tenant or two.
What about a bottom dollar duplex, where I still get some rental income but also have a minimally leveraged place to stay?
Hi Mike,
Have you though about managing other peoples properties, i.e helping out the accidental landlords who have gotten in over their head, and don’t/can’t sell the house and also detest dealing with the renters. Professional management companies charge like 10% of the rent and really stick it to the homeowners with maintenance charges. So if you were to charge a fair rate you could possibly build a client list over time. I know of a few cases where people got all excited around a late night infomercial and now absolutely hate dealing with their renters. You may have to check what licenses you’ll need, but i thought i may suggest this line of work to add to your income stream.
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Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-05-01 12:25:01
You may have to check what licenses you’ll need,
‘Round here I think you have to be a…realtor.
Comment by Awaiting
2012-05-01 16:07:18
Yeah, in Ca as well, if it is not your property. Property Managers are licensed.
I’ve got a neighbor (in our tenement) who moved this weekend. I believe she rented a townhome, paying around $1,750-$1,850- for a 2+2 from my research. If they waited and saved, they could have bought a nice little home, but their vehicle got stolen a few weeks back, and they were in a rush to get the heck out of here.I didn’t realize machinist make good dough. I looked it up, and was surprised.
We should have never crossed paths with all our neighbors, but this housing nightmare put us in a bad place.
There is never a better time to own Treasurys than on days when investors the world over are feeling anxious. It seems like this kind of serially renewed enthusiasm for Treasurys could go on for a few more years to come.
NEW YORK—Investors bought U.S. government bonds Monday after fresh worries emerged about Spain’s economy.
Spain said it was back in recession for the second time in three years. Investors worried that Spain might need a rescue as Greece and Ireland did. But rescuing the fourth-largest economy in the 17-country euro zone could prove to be too expensive for Europe’s bailout funds.
U.S. Treasurys are viewed as one of the safest investments in the world and usually rise in value when investors are anxious.
…
Spain has joined seven other euro-zone nations in recession, according to data released Monday, providing new evidence that austerity policies are failing to spark confidence in the region’s economies ahead of a week of expected anti-austerity protests and a string of important national elections.
Spain’s economy contracted for the second quarter in a row and the country’s banking sector suffered a widespread credit downgrade, piling further pressure on the government. WSJ’s Sara Schaefer Munoz analyzes its options. Photo: Getty Images
Almost every piece of new economic data in recent weeks has reinforced the impression that swaths of the European economy are contracting.
The worsening economic picture is raising political tensions around the euro zone—both French and Greek elections this weekend are expected to castigate incumbents. A growing number of politicians, led by François Hollande, the Socialist candidate in the French presidential ballot, and by Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti, have called for a shift in the focus of policies toward growth and away from austerity. Their calls have been reinforced by the weakness of many euro-zone economies, which some economists argue undermines the contention that cutting budgets pays dividends in increased economic confidence.
Among the 17 euro-zone nations, Spain joined Belgium, Greece, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia in recession. Outside the bloc, the U.K., Denmark and the Czech Republic are also in recession.
…
Spain joined Belgium, Greece, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia in recession. Outside the bloc, the U.K., Denmark and the Czech Republic are also in recession.
Go tell the Austerians, thou who passest by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we died.
Austerity is a pretty handy prevention for the problem these peoples have. Hard to solve bankruptcy with it though, or with more spending. The creditor will have to practice austerity, because they will not be repaid. Yet they project this cure upon the debtor. Madness!
The key to prevention is for it to occur before the problem. Something the highly-moral lenders should have thought of when they were extending credit.
Bank of America isn’t bullish on Merrill Lynch anymore.
BUSINESS
Updated April 30, 2012, 9:00 p.m. ET
BofA to Cut From Elite Ranks
Pressure on Costs Expands Wave of Job Reductions to Investment Units at No. 2 Bank
By DAN FITZPATRICK And DANA CIMILLUCA
Amid the banking industry’s relentless belt-tightening, even Bank of America Corp.’s moneymakers aren’t safe.
The Charlotte, N.C., company is planning about 2,000 staff cuts in its investment banking, commercial banking and non-U.S. wealth-management units, said people familiar with the situation. Those operations were vastly expanded with Bank of America’s 2009 purchase of Merrill Lynch & Co.
CEO Brian Moynihan is trying to show he can bring costs under control.
The reductions are significant because of whom they target: the high-earning employees whose efforts helped Merrill Lynch account for the bulk of Bank of America’s profit since the financial crisis.
The cuts come on top of a plan announced last year that will see Bank of America eliminate 30,000 jobs over three years in its consumer banking divisions. The bank employed 278,700 people as of March 31.
The move is the latest effort by Chief Executive Brian Moynihan to show investors he can bring expenses under control at a time of sluggish U.S. growth and revenue-reducing federal regulations. Personnel expense at Bank of America rose 17% between 2009 and 2011—a period in which revenue dropped 22%.
The No. 2 U.S. bank by assets already is facing a wave of high-profile defections in its institutional businesses, such as investment banking, amid Wall Street’s annual post-bonus job-hopping season. The upheaval comes as investors are pressuring banks to rein in expenses without giving ground competitively. Despite a 46% rise this year, Bank of America shares have lost a third of their value in the past year, amid questions about the industry’s profit outlook.
Other banks such as UBS and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. also are struggling to bring down costs and retain talent. In the second half of 2011, two dozen global financial firms set plans to cut 103,000 jobs.
Some of Bank of America’s cuts are part of a multiyear overhaul called Project New BAC, after the bank’s ticker symbol. The bank has told regulators it could sell off parts of its U.S. franchise or its U.S. trust business if economic conditions were to worsen significantly, according to people familiar with the situation.
“The reductions are significient because of who they target: the high-earning employees whose efforts helped Merrill Lynch account for the bulk of Bank of America’s profit since the financial crisis.”
Many of these “high-earning employees” are the ones who have collected gigantic pools of money from the Unwashed Masses so as to become the Unwashed Masses’ money managers and get to tap some big fees for doing so.
Now that the money has been collected these guys are now on the outs because Merrill doesn’t need them anymore.
The money under management will stay, the fees will stay, but the guys that made it all happen are destined to be gone.
But, not to worry, another fresh (and cheaper) batch will soon be on its way to replace them.
When you profits come from being able to seperate conservative investors from their money then you need a lot of smart and evil people. When your profits come from investing in treasuries using zero % loans from the FED you don’t need so many. There are fewer people left in the US with money to steal and those that are left are smarter.
“There are fewer people left in the US with money to steal and those that are left are smarter.”
I claim to be neither smart nor rich, but at least I am not dumb enough to hand my dough over to some investment adviser at a Wall Street Megabank so they can use it to fund their next yacht purchase.
You’d have to be really, really stoopid to do that sort of thing.
Latest wave of financial industry cuts could eliminate 21,000 jobs, rivaling the financial crisis.
FORTUNE –Perhaps the only thing more broken than Wall Street’s business model is its staffing strategy.
After adding thousands bankers in the past two years, financial firms again appear to be on the verge of cutting that many positions and then some. Consultants and Wall Street recruiters say banks could eliminate nearly 21,000 jobs from their securities divisions in New York alone. Worldwide cuts could be even larger. Recruiters say big banks are in the process of finalizing their downsizing plans, and that layoffs could start soon.
The latest round of job cuts could rival those that happened during the financial crisis. Back then, which was less than four years ago, Wall Street eliminated 28,000 positions. But that round of downsizing included the collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, and the biggest crisis in the financial markets since the Great Depression. By comparison, the stock market is up this year, and just last week banks reported better than expected earnings for the first quarter. What’s more, at the same time large firms are firing, many smaller investment banks have been staffing up. As a result, overall employment on Wall Street might not drop as much as it did after the financial crisis.
“Hiring is going on, it’s just not by the big banks,” says a top Wall Street recruiter Gary Goldstein, who runs Whitney Partners.
…
What’s more, at the same time large firms are firing, many smaller investment banks have been staffing up. As a result, overall employment on Wall Street might not drop as much as it did after the financial crisis.
“Hiring is going on, it’s just not by the big banks,”
A bit of hyperbole. What they say is collapse would just be a return to sanity. There is enormous unmet demand for NY real estate at a price the 99 percent can afford.
At these prices, NY real estate could cause the economy to collapse.
Az Slim
That a gal. Good job. You did a great service.
I was on our local news 30 years ago, to expose a shady VW repair operation that preyed on young women. If you didn’t pay their ransom, they left your car in pieces and you had to tow it to another repair shop to get a running VW. I was the media contact, and found the other victims. They had a laundry list of charges and got jail time. Don’t mess with our type, right slim!
Of course, my husband recorded over the VHS tape, my 2.5 minutes of fame. LOL
Thank you, Awaiting! I’ve been keeping my folks entertained by calling and reading them the stories that have appeared so far.
Reason for the phone and read: Mom and Dad don’t have a TV. And Mom’s not the Internet junkie that her offspring is.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Awaiting
2012-05-01 14:13:48
Az Slim
Your spunk and energy surpasses mine. Your parents are damn lucky that you watch out for them. Stories like your folks really irks me.
I signed my widowed mother up for lifeline (sister to life alert) for low income seniors, and they raised her rate, and she signed a lifetime agreement underwritten by the county. Boy, they needed an aspirin when I read them the riot act.I guess they thought she was a senior, and they could take advantage of her. Well, look out, miss pit bull was in charge. LOL I handed them their heads on a platter.I had a binding contract I was going to ram up their backside.
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-05-01 16:47:09
I signed my widowed mother up for lifeline (sister to life alert) for low income seniors, and they raised her rate, and she signed a lifetime agreement underwritten by the county. Boy, they needed an aspirin when I read them the riot act.I guess they thought she was a senior, and they could take advantage of her. Well, look out, miss pit bull was in charge. LOL I handed them their heads on a platter.I had a binding contract I was going to ram up their backside.
Same thing happened when I called that phone leasing scam company. They said that my folks would have to pay a surrender fee if they weren’t going to return the phones.
I hit the roof.
First of all, what’s so precious about these phones anyway? If they’re not returned, so what? They’re vintage equipment without much, if any, resale value. So, by not returning them, are we depriving this company of what? Telephones for their museum?
And what’s up with that surrender fee anyway? It’s not like my folks haven’t overpaid for these phones already.
After hearing about the surrender fee, blowing my stack and being put on terminal hold, I contacted the TV station in Philadelphia. The rest, they say, is history.
Many, if not most of us, have the picture of a healthy economy being the following:
1) Not corrupt.
2) Companies and society run with low debt and an eye on sustainability.
3) Strong production of heterogeneous goods and services.
4) High quality output.
5) Large numbers of skilled workers.
6) Well compensated workers with good work/life balances.
Well, according to The Economist, there is an economy which has these factors - Germany. Much of the rest of the world, the IMF and the financial industry, are all focused on making money from debt and the alchemy of financial products which are mostly logical constructs and sophisticated bets. The Economist article discusses the applicability of the “German Model” to other countries.
What Germany offers the world
Other countries would love to import Germany’s economic model. But its way of doing things is a lot less amenable to export than the wares it produces
Apr 14th 2012 | BIELEFELD | from the print edition
The Economist
Omnipresent but obscure, family owned but by no means puny, Beckhoff is among thousands of “hidden champions” that account for much of Germany’s prowess as a manufacturer and exporter. Its sales leapt 34% to €465m ($608m) last year. It is aiming for €2 billion by 2020. Beckhoff exports more than half its output. But its manufacturing is mainly in high-wage, rule-bound Germany.
Largely thanks to its Beckhoffs, Germany looks like a bright exception to the dispiriting rule among developed economies. True, its economy contracted more than those of most rich countries during the 2008-09 world recession (see chart 1). But the jobless rate rose by less than in all the others, peaking at 7.9%. And nobody talks about downgrading Germany’s AAA credit rating; it can borrow money for practically nothing.
Hans Beckhoff, boss of the automation company that bears his name, does not come off as a throwback. His silver-grey hair is modishly long, his collar unbuttoned. But some of his habits seem distinctly old-fashioned. Take his approach to debt: he’s against it. Investment in the company is funded by him and his three siblings, the only shareholders. It is the same with nearby Miele, a 113-year-old maker of kitchen equipment and white goods, with annual sales of €3 billion. This is not the most efficient way to run a company. With more leverage Mittelstand firms could boost their pre-tax profit by several points, notes Armin Schmiedeberg of Bain, a consultancy. He thinks they are wise not to.
The point is not to maximise short-term profit, says Markus Miele, a managing director at his firm, but to aim at “where we want to be when we hand over to the next generation.” Mr Beckhoff says he fends off monthly offers to buy his company. Lack of financial ambition goes along with the observance of unwritten sumptuary laws. “Families behind the Mittelstand live in an acceptable, modest and healthy way,” says Mr Beckhoff.
But it is another matter to excel in high-end capital goods or to assign to enterprise, unions and the state roles that Germany has been practising, with disastrous interruptions, for more than a century. During the crisis Italy introduced a short-time working scheme like Germany’s, but the results were disappointing: Italian firms and their workers could not mimic Germany’s ordered flexibility. Germany can offer lessons in how to get back into shape; but the essence of its model is rooted too deeply to be copied with ease.
“You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that.” —George Bush to a divorced mother of three, Feb. 4, 2005
I think everybody knows we’d be better off if we ran our businesses and our country for the long term rather than just next quarter’s bonus. But our system isn’t set up to reward that. And anybody who wants to change the system has to fight the people who get rich from the current system. And here we are.
I’ve been wondering about the schizophrenic housing market. I too notice that some houses come on the market for just a few days before they go under contract. Other houses of similar style will sit for literally years with nary an offer.
So, what’s the difference? Price and location. And one more biggie - potential depreciation. The houses that sit I’ve noticed tend to be in areas that have more foreclosures and tend to be poorer. But even houses in these areas will get snapped up if prices are low enough to take away the sting of future depreciation.
I’ve talked to a couple of people over the past few years who bought house and then had to sell for unforeseeable reasons (divorce, moving for work). What’s common in their transactions was that they were able to sell without too much of a loss - 10-20K below the buying price. They jumped right back into the housing market because they didn’t get particularly burned.
However, larger losses would have likely soured them on owning or even driven them to strategic default. So now, it seems to me, that for NAR at least, trying to get houses to credibly bottom - which means dealing with the shadow inventory, not just a media blitz - would probably be in their interest. And it would align with buyer interest too. Credibly-bottomed house prices would allow people to buy houses even in more marginal areas and allow them to be confident that they won’t lose too much money if they have to sell in the next 5-10 years.
This kind of action is similar for commercial property as well.
When markets are tough, Class A office (in terms of location and quality) competes with Class B office in terms of rent. So, the difference in rent between the two may be quite small (or much smaller than usual).
As markets recover, what you see is that Class A office absorbs faster, and a more traditional difference in rents between Class A and B reasserts itself. As this difference comes back into a market, Class B begins to recover more strongly.
One the residential front, this is why people say that the best markets are the “last to fall, and first to rise”.
How things change - I remember when Alan Greenspan was called “The Maestro” by an adoring public. Now, the public impressions I tend to get are more those of recklessness and cluelessness. It would have been hard to imagine back in the heady days of the tech bubble and the early days of the housing bubble that Greenspan could ever be held in such low esteem.
I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?
By MICHAEL J. BURRY
Published: April 3, 2010
The New York Times
ALAN GREENSPAN, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, proclaimed last month that no one could have predicted the housing bubble. “Everybody missed it,” he said, “academia, the Federal Reserve, all regulators.”
But that is not how I remember it.
[...]
As a nation, we cannot afford to live with Mr. Greenspan’s way of thinking. The truth is, he should have seen what was coming and offered a sober, apolitical warning. Everyone would have listened; when he talked about the economy, the world hung on every single word.
Unfortunately, he did not give good advice. In February 2004, a few months before the Fed formally ended a remarkable streak of interest-rate cuts, Mr. Greenspan told Americans that they would be missing out if they failed to take advantage of cost-saving adjustable-rate mortgages. And he suggested to the banks that “American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage.”
Within a year lenders made interest-only adjustable-rate mortgages readily available to subprime borrowers. And within 18 months lenders offered subprime borrowers so-called pay-option adjustable-rate mortgages, which allowed borrowers to make partial monthly payments and have the remainder added to the loan balance (much like payments on a credit card).
Observing these trends in April 2005, Mr. Greenspan trumpeted the expansion of the subprime mortgage market. “Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit,” he said, “lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately.”
‘Everybody missed it,’ he said, ‘academia, the Federal Reserve, all regulators.’
Here’s what’s weird about this; DC had put together a plan for receivership of the GSE’s in the spring of 2005. How could no one know it was all going to fall apart?
Hank Paulson gave up a huge salary at GS to take a job at the treasury which allowed him to cash out of his GS stock tax free (saving him 200,000,000 dollars making him the highest paid gov official ever) and he converted to treasuries.
Anthony Mozillo started selling his stock by the truck load while pumping it up in speeches.
GS started shorting the MBS it was selling to it’s customers.
Let’s see who was invested with Paulson’s Hedge Fund.
When one of these pompous people get up and say this I want to say show us how you invested show us your tax return and then we’ll believe what you say about not knowing.
Unfortunately, he did not give good advice. In February 2004, a few months before the Fed formally ended a remarkable streak of interest-rate cuts, Mr. Greenspan told Americans that they would be missing out if they failed to take advantage of cost-saving adjustable-rate mortgages. And he suggested to the banks that “American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage.”
Fed Governor Ed Gramlich tried to warn Greenspan about the dangers of subprime home loans. And Greenspan blew him off.
PBS covers this era on Frontline (now online accessible). Some of the Documentaries (Brooksey Born vs. Greenspan, is the topic of one) were very telling.
I had a financial planner explain to me how mutual funds take their fees - daily. The average is 1.8% a year divided by 365 and that is charged to the original contribution daily. They have other charges as well. Right now I wish the banks paid an average 1.8% on GICs.
With banks still overlevered, profits now being eroded again, tons of stimulus just holding the line, and now probable global recession - I wonder if I will have to pay interest to a bank to hold my GICs.
I don’t get that. The overall point of the article is that house prices generally match inflation over time, which is hardly a rah-rah RE talking point. I also don’t think he’s saying buy now, although he should have pointed out the importance of not buying when prices are above their historical average, plus inflation. You’re left to infer that yourself.
His other point also isn’t clearly stated, which is to make sure your imputed rent equals or exceeds your cost of ownership.
Octo-nut is a trainwreck.
I feel sorry for those 14 kids,
as well as us Ca taxpayers.
She had the nerve recently to
say she has never been on
welfare. BS. For starters,
Kaiser (8 births, etc…) was paid
by Medi-Cal (Medicaid in Ca.)
And she gets $2,000 mo in Food
Stamps. No welfare my arse.
Is Newt Gingrich gonna be there? Maybe they could cook up a plan to defend the Lunar Colony from the Space Aliens. Save the economy and add a new province in one swoop.
BTW, don’t worry about the usename. Sometimes I Cantrememberwhereiputmykeys
Nothing that dramatic so far, just his normal positions. Some of his responses are interesting to read, though. In one he talks about where he has been wrong in the past.
“The $300 million was a direct payment to the state that Bondi can decide how to use. To make a suggestion, go to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com.”
I am going to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com. and suggest Pam Bondi send Ben Jones of thehousingbubble@gmail.com $1 million of the $300 million so he can continue to keep some Floridians out of foreclosure by having people talk them out of buying overpriced houses that they can not afford.
Bondi wants input on spending $300 million in foreclosure cash
by Kim Miller
Attorney General Pam Bondi is giving Floridians until May 14 to submit suggestions on how to spend $300 million that was part of the nationwide attorneys general settlement with banks announced in February.
Florida got a total of about $8.4 billion worth of mortgage relief and cash from the agreement, which was between 49 attorneys general and five banks, including JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Bank of America and Ally Financial.
The $300 million was a direct payment to the state that Bondi can decide how to use. To make a suggestion, go to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com.
“Florida is one of the hardest hit states in the country in terms of foreclosures, and I’d like to hear from Floridians about ways we can help homeowners and offset the devastation caused by the foreclosure crisis,” Bondi said in a press release Monday.
The settlement agreement says the $300 million can be used for a range of activities such as hiring housing counselors, establishing state and local foreclosure assistance hotlines, creating state and local foreclosure mediation programs, providing legal assistance, and training and staffing of financial fraud or consumer protection enforcement efforts.
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Interesting, data just came out yesterday from the Commerce department: Units available for rent are dropping, and units available for sale are dropping (Homeowner vacancy rate - definition on p. 12 of link). It varies around the country, there are increases in some areas and decreases in others.
Government policies are working great. More money to the FIRE puppet masters one way or another.
On the other hand, it does look like a return to more historical norms. Without seeing the data for the 70s and 80s that is.
NOTE: PDF
RESIDENTIAL VACANCIES AND HOMEOWNERSHIP IN THE FIRST QUARTER 2012
Hey Alpha, I just got back from a lovely, beautiful jog on the beach, and as soon as I sat down, I thought, “I need to complain about high house prices.”
“Rajoy is now considering a program to protect banks’ capital by getting bad assets off their balance sheets. To do this in a way that strengthens the banks, though, the government will need to put in money — money it doesn’t have. If it taps funds set aside to guarantee deposits — an approach that is being debated — this would only increase financial risk with one hand while reducing it with the other.”
So with almost 25% unemployment their answer is to create a huge vulnerability in the people’s dwindling deposits? There it is again….the transfer of wealth to cover their bad risks.
And surprise-surprise, the Spanish people are taking to the streets in huge numbers. Something about May Day and their not being very happy about the moribund state of the Spanish economy.
“[I]t’s absurd to assert — as Germany has — that Spain and other struggling economies can claw their way back to economic stability through fiscal austerity, despite slow or no growth. If Europe’s leaders are betting they’ll have time to act if the situation deteriorates, they’re wrong. The pressure on Spain is no longer productive. It’s undermining a government that is doing all it can. If the gamble fails, things will unravel quickly — too quickly, maybe, for Plan B to take effect.
They tend to develop their own internal economies, including piggy-back ride credits, cigarette-based currencies, and trade in goods and services with the non-incarcerated population.
All told, prison economies are a pretty remarkable subject — a stunted microcosm of the larger economies that lie outside of prison walls.
Piggyback rides have replaced cigarettes as the preferred type of currency in the San Quentin Correctional Facility in Marin County, California, according to prison officials.
The move comes largely due to decreased demand for cigarettes within the borders of the prison walls. Just as the larger society is trending towards healthier lifestyle choices, so too are our nation’s most dangerous inmates. This desire to improve personal habits has dramatically reduced the amount of cigarette smokers at San Quentin.
Struggling to find a new product that is more in demand than tobacco, inmates quickly settled on piggyback rides. The idea – which was proposed by three-time murderer and current inmate Rocko Colton – was initially met with resistance by the majority of the prisoners at the maximum-security facility.
One free piggyback ride around the yard was all it took to change their minds, however.
In response to this inaugural piggyback ride, inmate Walter Smalls best summed up the majority viewpoint of the entire criminal population when he said, “Weeeeeeeeeeee!”
According to prison officials, piggyback rides have proven a remarkably good alternative to cigarettes. As one correctional officer puts it, “they’re readily available, enjoyable and addictive – everything a cigarette is without the death.” And, as Mr. Colton adds, “Just plain mother frocking fun.”
…
One of the many services provided from within prison walls is to train future participants in organized crime syndicates both inside and outside the prison.
The upshot: The human potential for organizing autonomous corporate units to carry out self-defined objectives is a powerful force, even inside of tightly controlled environments such as prisons. Informal credit systems are a critical element in such systems.
The 415 KUMI is a Black gang that originated in the San Francisco Bay/Berkley area of California in 1985. The are now referred to as the 415 KUMI. 415 represents the area code for the region. When added together, the numbers 4+1+5 = 10. KUMI is the Swahili word for “ten.”
The 415’s advocate “taking back the streets” by any means necessary. In California’s Folsom Prison, the 415’s have provided pools of inmates, such as the Bloods, for recruitment into the Black Guerilla Family prison gang – BGF. They aspire to resume activities formerly carried out by the Black Guerilla Family.
KUMI 415 have been reported to use prison guards to authorize violence against fellow inmates, such as the case in August of 2003 when former correctional officer Leon Holston was charged with aiding and abetting, battery with serious bodily injury, filing a false report by a peace officer and unlawful communication with a prisoner (Associated Press Newswires 9 Sep 2004).
…
A renewed rise is getting underway, and this will be reinforced if the Dow Industrials can rise and stay above 13,250 points.
It’s currently close to that level, and if it’s surpassed, it would be a new high for the move, suggesting the bull market is strong and on its way to higher highs.
Addicted to the Fed
The markets have become addicted to the Fed, and that goes for all of them. If it looks like the Fed’s going to keep money flowing, the markets rise. If not, they decline.
This is reminiscent of the Greek situation last year. The markets reacted to the news of the day as they waited with baited breath. And here again, the same thing is essentially happening.
Only this time, all eyes are on the Fed.
This week, Bernanke said he stands ready to boost the economy, and that’s all that was needed. The thought of more liquidity pushed most of the markets higher and this will likely continue.
The bottom line is, the Fed has to provide. It has no other choice. That’s basically what the Fed’s been doing for years. That’s its job, to fix things… and its track record is quite consistent. But now, the markets are far more focused on this than before.
Bernanke has said over and over that he’ll keep monetary stimulus going as long as it’s warranted. This could be due to a sluggish recovery, high long-term unemployment, problems in Europe, bringing the former bubble down easily, fear of deflation or another recession, the slowdown in China, the weak housing market or the election… you name it.
If the Fed is concerned enough, it’ll take action to keep it all together.
You may not like it, but it’s the facts. The markets have become addicted to the Fed and, like puppets, they will react based on the way the puppeteer pulls the strings.
…
U.S. housing demand is dying. You can stick a fork in this bubble now or later, but the fundamental, demographic-based demand that drove it is gone for good.
Homeownership Rate in U.S. Falls to Lowest Since 1997
By John Gittelsohn - Apr 30, 2012 11:56 AM PT
Blocks of Cuyahoga County are filled with vacant and stripped homes on Feb. 2, 2012 in Cleveland, Ohio. Photographer: Benjamin Lowy/Getty Images
Graham Fisher’s Rosner on U.S. Housing Market
Keys hang on the wall of a five-bedroom row house for sale in the Logan Circle neighborhood of Washington, D.C. The homeownership rate probably will settle around 64 percent, where it stood from about 1965 to the mid-1980s, because credit conditions are similar to that era, according to Patrick Newport , U.S. economist with IHS Global Insight.. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
The U.S. homeownership rate fell to the lowest level in 15 years in the first quarter as borrowers lost homes to foreclosure and tighter inventory and credit kept buyers off the market.
The rate dropped to 65.4 percent from 66 percent in the fourth quarter and fell a full percentage point from a year earlier, the Census Bureau said in a report today. That is the lowest level since the first quarter of 1997, and down from a record 69.2 percent in June 2004.
Mounting foreclosures are displacing borrowers, while a lack of inventory has kept home sales from accelerating amid record affordability, the National Association of Realtors reported April 19. Stricter mortgage standards are also limiting purchases as rental demand surges, said Paul Diggle, property economist with Capital Economics Ltd. in London.
“Although house prices and mortgage rates have fallen to a level that makes buying preferable to renting, ongoing problems accessing mortgage credit are preventing many households from taking advantage,” he wrote in a note today.
The U.S. apartment vacancy rate fell to 4.9 percent in the first quarter, an 11-year low, according to New York-based Reis Inc. (REIS) The vacancy rate for rental homes was 8.8 percent in the first quarter, compared with 9.7 percent a year earlier, the Census Bureau said in today’s report.
Home Vacancies
Of the estimated 132.6 million U.S. homes, 18.5 million, or 13.9 percent, were vacant in the first quarter. A year earlier, about 19 million homes were vacant, according to the report. That includes homes for sale or rent or held off the market, and vacation properties used seasonally.
“Both homeowner and rental vacancy rates dropped during the first quarter, which obviously bodes well for housing,” because shrinking inventory will boost rents and spur demand for new homes, Stephen East, an analyst with International Strategy & Investment Group LLC, wrote in a note to clients.
Homeownership may fall further and repossessions may increase this year as lenders step up foreclosures after a $25 billion agreement by the nation’s largest loan servicers in February to settle allegations of improper practices. Foreclosure filings fell to the lowest since 2007 in the first quarter as banks slowed actions before the settlement, according to RealtyTrac Inc.
The ownership rate may drop below 64 percent by the end of 2015 and stay there for years, Scott Simon, the mortgage bond head of Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, California, said in an e-mail today.
“It will be lower by 2017,” he said. “It will be lower in 2020.”
… Going, going, gone.
Married straight couples with families now make up less than half of U.S. households, marking the first time the group has dropped below 50 percent since census data on families was first collected in 1940.
The April report provides a first look at household and family data from the 2010 census and indicates a stark rise in nontraditional homes in America.
Though the U.S. has gained 11 million households since 2000, traditional husband-wife family households now comprise just 48 percent of them. The bulk is of family homes with a single head of house, nonrelated households, and people living alone.
Between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of growth for all types of households, except for husband-wife, was in the double digits. Husband-wife households with children actually fell by 5 percent over the same period, the only group to decline.
…
According to new information from the Census Bureau, the U.S. homeownership rate fell again in the first quarter of 2012. The overall rate is now 65.4%, down from 66% in the fourth quarter of 2011. This is the lowest level in fifteen years. Homeownership peaked at a rate of 69.2% in the summer of 2004.
The number of Americans owning homes has dropped largely as a result of foreclosure, and will likely to decline further as banks begin more foreclosures. Foreclosures were down in 2011 due to increased legal scrutiny over the legality of many foreclosures. Following the mortgage settlement, it seems likely that foreclosures will increase in the coming year. RealtyTrac reported last week that foreclosures were up in the majority of U.S. metro regions, and foreclosure starts are rising as well. A Bloomberg article today quotes Scott Simon, the head of mortgage bonds for PIMCO, as saying that as many as 6 million more borrowers will lose their properties over the next five years.
The vast majority of those that lose their homes will become renters (they will have to live somewhere). The concept of REO to rental schemes has become popular of late, and if these plans are successful, they would sop up a large chunk of housing inventory (I am skeptical that massive REO rental programs will be successful due to the logistical complexities of managing large numbers of rental properties). Nevertheless, the shadow inventory of unsold homes not on the market is potentially huge. Nobody really knows how many homes are in shadow inventory, but estimates range from 1 million to 10 million homes.
It also seems likely that many lenders are holding REO properties off the market in order to prevent a freefall in home prices. Delaying the sale of these homes helps banks avoid immediately marking the homes to their new market value. If banks had to mark all these properties to their market value immediately, their bottom lines would take a massive hit. Delaying this process allows banks to spread the losses over a longer period of time. What this all boils down to is a massive excess supply of housing.
At the same time, there is a lack of demand for these homes. Unemployment, lack of consumer confidence, falling home prices, low rates of household formation, demographic trends, and tight credit all depress the demand for homes. This imbalance in supply and demand ensures continued declines in home values.
All of this leads to a larger question: should the United States continue to pursue a policy of promoting homeownership at all costs?
…
Fannie Mae conducted small tests to reduce loan balances of homeowners who owned more on their mortgages than the properties were worth in 2010.
But the mortgage-finance company didn’t expand the pilot programs after concluding they were difficult to operate and the benefits weren’t clear, according to a letter from the firm’s federal regulator.
The loan-forgiveness pilot programs, some of which haven’t previously been disclosed, were outlined in a letter sent in April by the Federal Housing Finance Agency to Democratic lawmakers.
They come as the agency, which oversees Fannie Mae and the smaller mortgage agency Freddie Mac, considers whether to accept new funds made available by the Treasury Department to allow some troubled homeowners to receive principal forgiveness. Proponents of principal forgiveness argue that reducing loan balances for troubled homeowners could reduce the chances that those loans default.
Two banks participated in different programs, Wells Fargo & Co. and Citigroup Inc. The Wells Fargo program cut loan balances of borrowers who received a loan modification through existing government programs.
But by the end of last year, the loan performance of 200 underwater mortgages whose balances were reduced hadn’t differed from a control group of borrowers who received standard loan modifications that don’t reduce principal, according to a letter from Alfred Pollard, the FHFA’s general counsel. Fannie chose to terminate the pilot with Wells Fargo in March 2011 due to certain data-keeping errors, he wrote.
A more complex pilot program with Citi, which included a “shared equity” component that would have allowed Fannie and Citi to share in any future home-price gains for homes owned by those who received principal forgiveness, didn’t move beyond the planning stage.
Fannie officials determined in mid-2010 that it wouldn’t be able to implement the program until spring 2011 due to operational concerns, according to company emails obtained by the lawmakers. Mr. Pollard said in his letter that Fannie proposed an alternate, more straightforward program that Citi wasn’t interested in.
Fannie’s loan-forgiveness pilot programs, “to the extent they were begun, ended due to complex operational issues involving system changes, accounting considerations and the interest level of Fannie Mae’s partners,” wrote Mr. Pollard.
…
Fannie Mae conducted small tests to forgive debts of homeowners who owed more on their mortgages than the properties were worth in 2010. But the mortgage-finance company didn’t expand the pilot programs after concluding the programs were difficult to operate and the benefits weren’t clear, according to a letter from the firms’ federal regulator.
The letter, released Tuesday, disclosed that Fannie developed pilot loan write-down programs with Citigroup Inc. and Wells Fargo & Co. in 2009 and 2010 but they either didn’t launch or barely got off the ground.
Fannie’s loan-forgiveness pilot programs, “to the extent they were begun, ended due to complex operational issues involving system changes, accounting considerations and the interest level of Fannie Mae’s partners,” Alfred Pollard, the Federal Housing Finance Agency’s general counsel, wrote in a letter to Reps. Elijah Cummings (D., Md.) and John Tierney (D., Mass.).
The letter, written in April, was released as the regulator considers whether to accept new funds made available by the Treasury Department to allow some troubled homeowners to receive principal forgiveness.
Messrs. Cummings and Tierney have for months accused the FHFA’s acting director, Edward DeMarco, of obstructing efforts to forgive debts of under-water borrowers. They have been probing Fannie’s pilot programs since earlier this year, when a former Fannie employee called attention to the issue.
They suggested in their own letter Tuesday that the FHFA shelved the Citi pilot for ideological reasons. “This was not merely a missed opportunity, but a conscious choice that appears to have been based on ideology rather than Fannie Mae’s own data and analyses,” the lawmakers wrote.
Mr. DeMarco quickly took issue with the lawmakers’ assertions.
“Having just received a copy of your letter regarding principal forgiveness, I wish to convey my disappointment with this letter, the failure to contact FHFA to address your concerns, and the release of selective elements of the proprietary and confidential materials you received,” he wrote. “I strongly disagree with any characterization of FHFA’s work or motives as anything but in keeping with the professionalism expected of this agency.”
The housing regulator has been under pressure from Congressional Democrats and the Obama administration to reconsider its opposition to loan-write-down programs.
…
Concerns are growing about departures at mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, a situation that some executives argue is making it difficult to manage the companies and their $5 trillion mortgage business.
The latest sign came Monday when Freddie said that Anthony Renzi—the executive who oversees the single-family mortgage business, by far the company’s largest and most complex division—would leave this month to take another job in the industry.
Mr. Renzi, who has spent two years at Freddie, joins a growing list of industry veterans who have departed over the past year. The chief executives of both Fannie and Freddie have said they plan to leave this year. In the past two years, dozens of senior managers, many with long tenures, have left.
Worries over compensation and low morale are playing a role in prompting Fannie and Freddie employees to look elsewhere. Freddie last month revamped the way it pays its employees amid concerns that Congress might sharply cut pay for rank-and-file workers at the companies, after scrapping bonuses for senior executives.
Charles E. Haldeman Jr., Freddie’s chief executive, said in an interview that attacks from Congress, second-guessing by regulators and the lack of a game plan for the firm’s future have hindered retention efforts and have “made it much more difficult to operate as a business.”
In an email to employees, Mr. Haldeman said Monday that his own successor would be named “very shortly.” The frontrunner for the job is Donald Layton, the former chief executive of online brokerage firm E*Trade Financial Corp. and an outside director of American International Group Inc., according to people familiar with the matter. The board is also considering Gerry Pasciucco, who oversaw the winding down of the troubled AIG Financial Products division, and Shekar Narasimhan, who runs a housing-finance consultancy.
Freddie warned of “disruptive levels of turnover at both the executive and employee levels” when it reported its 2011 financial results in March, and it warned that “could lead to breakdowns in many of the company’s operations.”
The exodus of top talent began shortly after Fannie and Freddie were taken over by the government in 2008 through a process known as conservatorship. With the job market in the Washington area improving for the financial-services sector, the departures are becoming more frequent and potentially destabilizing.
…
Protest Hits City Targets Occupy Falls Short of General Strike
By PERVAIZ SHALLWANI, JESSICA FIRGER and ALISON FOX
Occupy Wall Street activists march through Midtown with arms clasped during the May Day demonstrations in New York City on Tuesday.
Thousands of Occupy Wall Street protesters fanned out across New York City Tuesday, heralding a fresh start for the anticorporate movement after months of inaction but falling short of a goal to convince large numbers to ditch work for a day.
The demonstrations were bolstered by some large city labor unions, which obtained permits for the protest but didn’t support organizers’ call for a general strike. As many as 6,000 people were in Union Square in the afternoon, before marching to the Financial District, a law-enforcement official said.
At least 50 people were arrested for offenses ranging from disorderly conduct to a 24-year-old man who allegedly wrote the world “shame” on the side of a building at 545 Fifth Ave., a law-enforcement official said.
…
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“Florida’s growing nightmare: Crumbling foreclosures in legal limbo, ignored by banks”
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/venturebiz/content/floridas-growing-nightmare-crumbling-foreclosures-legal-limbo-ignored-banks
How can it possibly pencil out for the owners of these properties to let them crumble into desuetude? Wouldn’t it make more sense to sell them to the highest bidder, than to let them crumble into dust unoccupied?
How can it possibly pencil out for the owners of these properties to let them crumble into desuetude?
Who are the owners? Are they aware they are the owners?
I don’t know who the owners are, but my understanding, based on numerous discussions here, is that business law is designed to assign ownership. Whoever owns these homes is losing a bundle in physical depreciation.
business law is designed to assign ownership.
Has business law met up with the MERS yet? I suspect the owners of these houses are unaware of their ownership, and would be appalled if they were made aware.
Selling the property means realizing (booking) the loss now. It his this quarters bottom line - and thus affects this years executive bonus package.
Letting it crumble? Well, that’s loss isn’t “real”. That’s just a theoretical future loss, that hits some future quarterly number, that we’ll let some future executive deal with.
Selling the property means realizing (booking) the loss now. It his this quarters bottom line - and thus affects this years executive bonus package.
Looks like redrum just hit it over the center field wall.
Agree. Kick the can is not limited to government alone.
Do they want to be owners (either banks or occupants)?
Sometimes banks take actions so they are not on chain of title.
in Ottawa our own intellectual bomb thrower is still doing time
How is Canadian housing bubble implosion working out for you?
Be very afraid of the Canadian housing bubble
By Don Pittis, CBC News
Posted: Apr 16, 2012 9:06 AM ET
Last Updated: Apr 16, 2012 9:51 AM ET
House prices in Canada declined in March
I want you to be afraid. Very afraid of the Canadian housing market.
I want people who are considering buying a house in Canada to be the most frightened. People who just bought a house also have every right to be nervous. But even if you don’t have a stake in the property market, I would like you, too, to be fearful of a bubble in Canadian property.
I’m frightened myself. A lot of smart people are. But I should make it very clear I’ve no desire to be the Nouriel Roubini of the Canadian housing market.
Roubini, for those who didn’t notice, rose from B-team academic to A-list fame and fortune by predicting the U.S. housing and market collapse of 2008.
Before the crash, he was just one more Chicken Little – that children’s story character, who, after being whacked by a falling acorn runs about shrieking, “The sky is falling, we must run and tell the King.”
After the crash, Chicken Little no more, Roubini was Solomon the Wise. Having demonstrated his credentials, Roubini is still travelling the world, dining out as The Man Who Got It Right.
When doomsters are right, they are showered with honours. Think of how religious enthusiast Harold Camping’s star would have risen had the world actually ended last May.
…
How is Canadian housing bubble implosion working out for you?
right now in Ottawa, housing seems to be doing very well, normal sales, normal prices. I am personally very afraid of housing. I follow Garth Turner’s blog greaterfool. In Vancouver sales have fallen 30% year-over-year. Toronto condo market seems about to implode - Toronto has more cranes under hire than New York City and Chicago combined. Ontario’s debt is out-of-control. The Federal Government is tightening CMHC mortgage insurance ( somewhat the equivalent of Fannie Mae ). Mark Hanson is my hero, he warns that Canadian defaults will rise as high as US. Currently Canadian default rate is 0.5%.
It was the best of times and the worst of time.
Think of how religious enthusiast Harold Camping’s star would have risen had the world actually ended last May.
pretty funny
This is what you get when the banks with their private federal reserve creates money that does not cost them anything! What do you expect?
What do we expect? Well, the carry trade!
And that’s exactly what’s happening. Those banksters are the best carry traders this nation has ever seen.
How Banks Become Bad Neighbors
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/bad-neighbor-banks/fl-bad-neighbor-banks-limbo-20120429,0,2098022.story
Already experiencing that in this nabe.
But, not to worry, Arizona Slim is on the case. If I see an unkempt bank-owned property, I report it to the City of Tucson’s code enforcement people. They lo-o-o-ove getting those reports, trust me on that.
They lo-o-o-ove getting those reports, trust me on that.
Is that sarcasm?
Not at all!
I think the city’s been troubled by the number of neglected houses in foreclosure. However, there are only so many people down at the city code enforcement division.
They need us in the neighborhoods to monitor the situation and, if need be, report it. So, a-reporting I shall go.
Wake up Neo…
The matrix has you.
Off to bed…really enjoyed yesterday’s bits bucket. You all were on fire!
“really enjoyed yesterday’s bits bucket. You all were on fire!”
My thoughts exactly. Shout out to CarrieAnn, she’s been nailing it.
My thoughts exactly. Shout out to CarrieAnn, she’s been nailing it.
What’d I miss? I’ve been too busy to keep up. Guess I’ll have to review what post went so well. LOL Thanks for the shout out, Hard Rain.
Yes it was a great discussion, from which the squad concludes that single, no kids, non coastal people are ALWAYS better off renting. Loan-ownership is for loosers!
Agree. Good discussions yesterday.
+1 Good defense.
‘Octomom’ files for bankruptcy, owes $30K in rent
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — “Octomom” Nadya Suleman filed for bankruptcy Monday, saying in a court filing that she has as much as $1 million in debt.
Suleman wants a fresh start and said in a statement that filing for bankruptcy is what’s best for her children, according to the Orange County Register.
“I have had to make some very difficult decisions this year, and filing Chapter 7 was one of them,” Suleman said.
The La Habra mother of 14 reports up to $50,000 in assets in federal court filings, which means she owes more than 20 times her net worth.
Suleman is filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which means a court-appointed trustee would liquidate her assets to pay off creditors before she is discharged from most of her debts.
Among others, Suleman owes money to her father, the city’s water department, DirecTV and Whittier Christian School, where at least some of her children are students.
Suleman also owes more than $30,000 in rent payments on her four-bedroom house.
The home’s owner, Amer Haddadin, says his own credit has suffered as he allowed the home to go into foreclosure proceedings by not making the mortgage payments.
A foreclosure auction that was scheduled for Monday has been postponed for a week.
Suleman was in financial dire straits before the January 2009 birth of her octuplets brought her notoriety.
She lived with her mother in a three-bedroom house in Whittier that was in foreclosure proceedings at the time of the octuplets’ birth.
The unemployed single mother had been supporting her six other children with the aid of food stamps and Social Security disability payments — sources of income that she continues to rely on.
Since the birth, she has cut deals with media outlets and posed in tabloid photo spreads to get by, touting a book and exercise videos that never materialized.
She earned $5,000 for promoting spaying and neutering for an animal rights group and was paid to take a beating in celebrity boxing matches.
In 2009, Suleman declined a million-dollar offer to appear in pornography.
Last month, semi-nude photos of Suleman ran alongside a paid interview in a British publication — a photo spread she defended in the tabloids, saying she wasn’t ashamed of it.
All Suleman’s children were conceived through in vitro fertility treatments. Her octuplets are the world’s longest-surviving set.
How can you let someone get 30k behind in rent? I wonder what kind of relationship she has with the landlord?
Bankruptcy tends to delay eviction… that’s why she filed for it… & the rent in arrears just keeps growing.
Thanks, courts!! We landlords luv u… NOT!!
Actually, its the legislators who passed the BK laws who you should be angry with.
Not really in NYC..BK delays for a little bit but unless the tenant shows good faith by putting up some of the back rent, judges will let the eviction proceed quickly….
Lots of judges are not sympathetic to tenants who just want to run up the bill.
The unemployed single mother had been supporting her six other children with the aid of food stamps and Social Security disability payments — sources of income that she continues to rely on.
So California.
“‘Octomom’ files for bankruptcy, owes $30K in rent”
So she’s taking a page out of The Donald’s playbook, then?
Realtors Are Corrupt®
From the Washington Post - Fewer Americans form households after recession, hampering economic recovery:
“The recession reduced the rate at which Americans set up new homes or apartments by at least half.
More than one in five adults between ages 25 and 34 live with their parents or in other multi generational living arrangements, the highest level since the 1950s, according to the Pew Research Center.
“It’s hard to see what’s going to turn this around without better job and income growth,” said Daniel McCue, research manager at Harvard University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. “But the way the job market is going, I don’t see any immediate change.”
What’s weird in our little burg is that under 200K houses are selling, and selling fast. The further you move above the 200K mark, the more the market slows down. Above 300K very little is selling.
My guess is high investor demand at the low end, low end-user demand at the mid-high end. Also, at the low end, you have lot’s of first-time home buyers with FHA/VA low-down payment financing…
I can’t speak for CO’s market, but I assume the math is the same there as other places that I’ve seen, but the rental yields fall pretty quickly in the markets that I’ve seen as the price of the home goes up (you can’t charge a proportionally more for a more expensive home to rent).
As such, the buy to rent strategies are focused on the lower priced homes in any particular market.
I’m sure affordability has something to do with it as well…
Infestors.
Judge: Counselor, why are you asking to have this foreclosure dismissed?
Deadbeats lawyer: Your honor, the plaintiff can not prove who owns Mr. Deadbeats loan.
Judge: (to Wells Fargo attorney) Well counselor?
Wells Fargo attorney: Your honor, do you think we would have loaned Mr. Deadbeat $425,000 on a house that he purchased for $125,000 in 1999 when he earns an annual salary of $42,000 if we knew who he was supposed to pay back?
So sad, so funny.
Why wait for summer?
May Day Eve Quickly Turns Ugly In San Francisco
A day that is expected to be filled with anti-establishment protests all around the globe began early last night with a roving band of “anarchists” smashing car windows and store fronts in San Francisco’s Mission District. The mini-riot (which was technically on April 30, but still) may have started as a “ruckus street party” organized by Occupy Oakland protesters who invaded their sister city last night, but whoever was responsible appeared to show little regard for the property of either the 1% or the other 99.
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-eve-quickly-turns-ugly-san-francisco-091023433.html
Rioting in the streets is one of my predicted markers for stages society needs to pass through on the way to a housing bottom.
I note it happened on the streets of LA back in 1992, about four or so years before housing reached a bottom.
Are you implying that the housing bottom is $80K of rent in the future?
Your off-topic, “pro-ownership” posts are annoying, and seem to reflect a delusional belief that by winning over the hearts and minds of those who read here, you can somehow reverse the downward trajectory of the housing market.
What we discuss here cannot remove the millstone of economic fundamentals weighing on U.S. housing prices.
What we discuss here cannot remove the millstone of economic fundamentals weighing on U.S. housing prices.
Then people shouldn’t freak out so much over people buying or suggesting it’s a good time to buy. Let’s not get lost in group-think. I for one like to hear all sides of an issue, not just my side.
Story linked from the Drudge Report of “youths” and “students” (corporate media’s favorite terms when reluctantly reporting wilding incidents) getting some social justice for Trayvon:
http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton
THE LONG HOT SUMMER IS HERE!
Oh those cwazy teens again!
“youths” and “students” …getting some social justice for Trayvon:
Watch the cockroaches scatter when a few of them get hollow points in the chest from trying to jack the wrong guy or gal…
Points for anyone who knows whose lyrics this is from:
“Fourteen pulls on my trigger, that’s the whole clip.”
Do you feel lucky?
when a few of them get hollow points in the chest from trying to jack the wrong guy or gal
When I made the mistake of living in the French Quarter (Vieux Carre to us locals) of New Orleans during my youth, I learned that since so many people there carried (downtown NO being essentially lawless- especially if you were off the major tourist streets), the standard method of mugging was to get sapped from behind and your pockets rifled while you lay there on the sidewalk, knocked out. They’d take your gun, too.
Yesterday evening was when I took my weekly walk around Downtown Tucson. Was joined by the usual suspects, those friends who’ve been walking with me for a couple of years.
The sunset also marked the occasion of the visit of Michelle Obama. She was at the Tucson Convention Center for a campaign fund raiser.
Since nobody in my little posse had the five figures needed to get into the Convention Center, we padded around Downtown for free.
Well, except for me. I started yelling all sorts of slogans at the police helicopter circling overhead. Things like “We are not the enemy!” “Close Gitmo!” And that perennial HBB favorite, “Jail the banksters!”
No, the cop-copter people didn’t hear me. Nor did the impressive security force on the ground. We walkers were several blocks away from them.
As we walked along Broadway, we passed by a very disturbed looking man cowering inside a bus shelter. I couldn’t help thinking that five figures for a seat at a fund raiser would have gone a long way toward helping this man get cleaned up and off the streets.
Slim:
Great piece on your parents phone deal..
This is why need need to publicly fund all elections, no more fundraising dinners or lobbyists to beg….Imagine if oh rom and paul each got $100 million to spend and no more…
I would make an exception if you use your own money…if trump or gates or whitman or even zuckerberg wanted to run….well you earned it so spend it but you get NO federal money to supplement it…
Germany does it that way, more or less ( oublicly funded elections).
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Updated April 9, 2012, 6:53 p.m. ET
Treasury’s Run Around DeMarco
Tapping TARP to pay Fannie Mae for another housing bailout.
If you can’t roll over Ed DeMarco, run around him. That’s the Obama Administration’s latest ploy, as it tries to arrange one more election-year housing bailout.
Mr. DeMarco is the career civil servant who drew the short straw and ended up as the acting chief of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), which oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He’s legally bound to balance three priorities: preserve and conserve Fan and Fred’s assets to protect taxpayers, keep the institutions running while Congress figures out what to do next, and maximize assistance for homeowners to minimize foreclosures. That last imperative isn’t supposed to come at the expense of the other two.
But don’t tell that to the Obama Administration, which has been hounding Mr. DeMarco to unleash Fan and Fred to write down the principal on millions of home mortgages. Mr. DeMarco has resisted on grounds that it would hurt taxpayers. For this effrontery, Democrats in Congress have tried to get Mr. DeMarco fired and even New York Federal Reserve chief Bill Dudley has lectured his less august fellow regulator to get with the Obama program.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner joined the pressure campaign late last month by telling the Senate there’s a “very strong economic case” for writedowns in some circumstances because they might “increase overall recovery to the investor and the taxpayer.” He’s encouraging Fan and Fred to “take another look at the math,” and he implied the two want to help, if only Mr. DeMarco would let them.
Maybe Mr. Geithner has been too busy with Europe to know what FHFA has already done to help troubled borrowers. Since they went into government conservatorship in 2008, Fan and Fred have completed more than 1.1 million loan modifications and one million “foreclosure prevention” transactions, including forbearance plans, short sales, deeds-in-lieu and more. The toxic twins have also done 10.4 million refinancings, 1.1 million under the Administration’s Home Affordable Refinance Program.
Mr. DeMarco has resisted principal reductions because their impact is uncertain and perhaps costly. FHFA’s research shows that if a borrower is in distress, writing down a mortgage can often cost more money for taxpayers than other loss-modification strategies. Economic models also can’t capture the risks of moral hazard.
About 80% of borrowers with Fan and Fred-backed loans that are underwater—with a home worth less than the mortgage—continue to meet their monthly payments. Why should taxpayers subsidize people who can afford to pay? And what would happen if taxpayers subsidized people who aren’t paying? More homeowners might stop paying if they know the government will reduce their debts too.
Since Mr. DeMarco won’t budge, Treasury is now proposing to make him an offer he can’t refuse. The Administration wants to take a chunk of the $20.9 billion in leftover TARP funds and use it to subsidize mortgage writedowns through its Home Affordable Modification Program. Hamp targets delinquent borrowers or those who can demonstrate financial hardship, and it includes both Fan- and Fred-backed borrowers and those with private-label mortgages.
Setting aside the moral hazard, are these the right people to help? Doubtful. Deutsche Bank researchers found that borrowers who miss three or more mortgage payments “are 70% more likely to re-default” after a year than borrowers who are current at the time the loan is modified.
…
“$20.9 billion in leftover TARP funds”
Leftover TARP funds. Please, suh, can I have some leftovers?
Silly Rabbit! TARPs are for Banksters!
No, TARPs are for teabaggers:
Bloomberg - Tea Party Congressmen Accept Cash From Bailed Out Bankers
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-30/tea-party-congressmen-accept-cash-from-bailed-out-bankers.html
I get the impression that being associated with bailed-out bankers is going to be a real political liability.
a “very strong economic case” for writedowns in some circumstances
This statement from Geithner has appeared in multiple news stories, yet NOT ONCE has anyone, Geithner included, given an example of what these “some circumstances” are. (hardship-based?)
setting aside moral hazard
You can’t set aside moral hazard. Yeah, maybe it will save “the taxapayer” a few billion, but it will LOOK awful. Can’t Obama figure this out? It’s always the single little scandal, not the big money picture, that brings down politicians, from Slyndra to Macaca.
The only way for moral hazard not to be an issue is if no one knows it is happening. Simply impossible even if the politicians wanted to be quiet for it, which, of course, they don’t.
Taking $100K of “equity” to pay for a heart transplant would be the decent thing to write off and forgive the loan….but never SUV’s boxtox and a boob job…never ever.
(hardship-based?)
‘…what these “some circumstances” are…’
Sounds like it might boil down to the question of who is “deserving” and who isn’t? This seems much more Democratic than democratic.
My favorite line?
“keep the institutions running while Congress figures out what to do next”
If you have to make that kind of statement, isn’t it proof that perhaps you’ve reached the point where you SHOULDN’T keep the institutions running? End them now.
I admittedly am a dunce at Washingtonian maths, and hope someone who works inside the beltway can help me out here. The claim is that the F&F principal reduction program would give 691,000 underwater borrowers principal reductions worth $51,000 on average.
Elementary school multiplication shows that
691,000*$51,000 = $35,241,000,000 (35.241 billion U.S. dollars). Since this would be a reduction in money currently owed U.S. taxpayers, how would it only cost them on the order of $3.8 bn?
Federal housing regulator postpones decision on principal reductions
By Vicki Needham - 04/30/12 05:51 PM ET
The nation’s top housing regulator who oversees mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blew past his self-imposed Monday deadline to decide whether to offer homeowners write-downs of their loans.
Edward DeMarco, acting director of the Federal Housing Finance Administration (FHFA), had said he would make a final decision on whether the government-controlled firms would offer mortgage principal reductions to borrowers who are underwater on their loans and current on their payments by the end of this month.
But the agency acknowledged it would need more time and didn’t say when a decision would be made.
“FHFA continues to work on its principal forgiveness analysis and is in discussions with the Department of the Treasury,” an FHFA spokeswoman said in a statement.
“A final determination on the Treasury proposal for triple investor incentives for HAMP [Home Affordable Modification Program] Principal Reduction Alternative (PRA) is being deferred until we conclude these activities.”
House Democrats have kept the heat on DeMarco to consider reductions of mortgage principal to help borrowers and, inevitably, shore up the battered housing market.
Maryland Democrat Elijah Cummings, ranking member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and panel member John Tierney (D-Mass.) have called on DeMarco to provide more information about his refusal to reduce mortgage principal for homeowners.
In February, Cummings and Tierney wrote a letter to DeMarco saying that data he submitted to Congress in January showed that principal reduction would save taxpayers billions of dollars compared with allowing those with underwater mortgages to go into foreclosure.
DeMarco has said he prefers principal forbearance because it is less risky to Fannie and Freddie, which have already received more than $150 billion in taxpayer help to stay afloat.
But he did signal a willingness to consider the policy based on further review, which is still under way.
“A key risk in principal forgiveness targeted at delinquent borrowers is the incentive created for some portion of the current borrower population to cease paying in search of a principal forgiveness modification,” he said.
During a recent speech at the Brookings Institution, DeMarco said the FHFA’s recent reexamination of reducing mortgage principal for underwater borrowers could save upward of $1.7 billion under a plan put forward by the Treasury Department as part of HAMP.
He argued that even if the agency chooses to move forward, reducing principal would affect fewer than 1 million homeowners, a fraction of the estimated 11 million who are underwater on their loans nationwide.
The FHFA estimates of the Treasury plan show that about 691,000 eligible homeowners would receive, on average, about $51,000 in loan forgiveness. Using a principal reduction program would save $9.9 billion, compared with $8.2 billion under the current version of HAMP.
The costs to taxpayers of Treasury’s incentives programs would be about $3.8 billion, according to the FHFA analysis.
…
Who was it yesterday that was saying they really are NOT going to actually write down a damn thing for homeowners? That it’s all bluster?
I think that the incentive provided by the Treasury is not equal to the amount of the principal reduction.
Bank, if you write down the note by $50k, you’ll save money as compared to going through foreclosure in today’s market, and we’ll write you a check for $5k to sweeten the deal for you.
Your point only makes sense if it is other people’s money used to pay the $51,000 per household in unearned income (and it is…).
May 1, 2012, 12:02 a.m. EDT
Warning: Fiscal icebergs ahead
Commentary: Without action, massive drag on economy is coming
By Irwin Kellner, MarketWatch
PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) — Unless Congress and the president take action soon, the ship of state will run into massive fiscal restraint come the New Year.
Seven months from now, taxes will rise while spending will be cut — each by sizable sums. This restraint will be imposed even though the great majority of economists would argue that the economic recovery is so precarious that, if anything, the reverse would be called for — that is, lower taxes and more spending.
Let me give you an idea of the magnitudes. Taxes are scheduled to go up by a whopping $500 billion, while spending is set to drop by more than $130 billion.
On the tax side, one-third will come from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. Another 25% will occur as a result of the end of the temporary payroll tax cut, while another 25% will emanate from the expiration of the AMT patch.
The rest will come from tax hikes related to Obamacare, the end of the 2009 tax extenders and a rather sizable jump in the estate tax. There is something for everyone; I call it taxmageddon.
And if this were not a blow to the economy’s solar plexus, consider the drop in spending mandated to occur at year-end under current law. The $130 billion will also affect a broad swath of the country, from defense, to Head Start, to Pell Grants, as well as to states and local governments.
Put the tax hikes and spending cuts together, and they amount to a thumping 4% of our gross domestic product. A speed bump this size would be enough to slow a healthy economy; a weak one such as we are now experiencing could very well stop short and go into reverse. In other words, back into a recession.
And don’t think for one minute that this scenario will not unfold until 2013. It will very likely become noticeable sooner — say around Election Day.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why.
Aware that these icebergs loom on the economic horizon, most companies will shelve many planned expenditures, including hiring. For their part, consumers are likely to husband their resources by keeping their wallets tightly closed. This means, of course, a drop in retail sales.
Don’t look to monetary policy for much help. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke already has the pedal to the metal when it comes to monetary ease. The money supply is growing rapidly while interest rates are about as low as they can go.
Besides, the banks are still parsimonious when it comes to extending credit, while both consumers and business are deleveraging; everyone, it seems, is trying to lighten his or her debt loads.
This brings up an important part of economic theory I would like to remind you of, and it is that monetary policy works best in restraint. When it comes to stimulus, it is necessary but not sufficient. In other words, you can yank on a string but you can’t push on it.
…
rock and a hard place.
we’ve been pushing on the rock for sometme now to no avail…may as well try pushing on the hard place.
“may as well try pushing on the hard place.”
That’s what she said.
“if anything, the reverse would be called for — that is, lower taxes and more spending.”
SAY WHAT?! Isn’t that how we got into this mess?!!
Consider the source: WSJ.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/krugman-fix-economy-exact-opposite-doing-183221703.html
‘Over the past five years since the Great Recession began, economists have been waging a religious war over the best way to fix our problems. Keynesians argue that the problem is lack of demand, and, therefore, the best medicine is for the government to radically increase spending to drive the economy until the private sector heals.’
‘The most visible champion of the latter view is professor Paul Krugman of Princeton, who has just published a new book called “End This Depression Now!”
Uh, I thought the govt said the economy got out of recession in 2009?
‘But what about those who say that we can’t afford additional stimulus–that we’re already so overloaded with debt that if we don’t immediately start cutting the deficit, interest rates will soar and the currency will collapse. Just look at the reality, Krugman says. People have been predicting hyperinflation and runaway interest rates for years, and they’re just not happening.’
Straw man; the biggest risk, and almost everything has pointed to this for well over a decade, is deflationary stagnation. The govt and central bank efforts to fight this, using the only tool they have, is money creation and spending. What do you get? Economic distortions and bubbles.
But, yeah, let’s keep putting this clown on the front page:
‘Why does Paul Krugman say space aliens could fix the U.S. economy? Here’s an edited excerpt of what he and Ken Rogoff had to say: Ken Rogoff: Infrastructure spending, if it were well-spent, that’s great. I’m all for that. I’d borrow for that, assuming we’re not paying Boston Big Dig kind of prices for the infrastructure.’
‘Fareed Zakaria: But even if you were, wouldn’t John Maynard Keynes say that if you could employ people to dig a ditch and then fill it up again, that’s fine, they’re being productively employed, they’ll pay taxes, so maybe Boston’s Big Dig was just fine after all.’
‘Paul Krugman: Think about World War II, right? That was actually negative social product spending, and yet it brought us out. I mean, probably because you want to put these things together, if we say, “Look, we could use some inflation.” Ken and I are both saying that, which is, of course, anathema to a lot of people in Washington but is, in fact, what basic logic says.’
‘It’s very hard to get inflation in a depressed economy. But if you had a program of government spending plus an expansionary policy by the Fed, you could get that. So, if you think about using all of these things together, you could accomplish a great deal.’
‘If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack and we needed a massive buildup to counter the space alien threat and really inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months. And then if we discovered, oops, we made a mistake, there aren’t any aliens, we’d be better –’
‘Ken Rogoff: And we need Orson Welles, is what you’re saying.’
‘Paul Krugman: No, there was a Twilight Zone episode like this in which scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace. Well, this time…we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus.’
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/12/gps-this-sunday-krugman-calls-for-space-aliens-to-fix-u-s-economy/
Uh, I thought the govt said the economy got out of recession in 2009?
Not unless the National Bureau of Economic Research has been taken over by the government…
‘September 15, 2009. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Tuesday that the recession has ended, at least based on the numbers. ‘From a technical perspective, the recession is very likely over at this point,’ Bernanke told a conference.’
‘Bernanke’s remarks were similar to a speech he gave in August at the Fed’s annual retreat in Jackson Hole, Wyo. Since the August speech, Bernanke was reappointed by President Barack Obama to a second four-year term at the helm of the central bank.’
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2009-09-15/economy/30761892_1_bernanke-financial-crisis-global-economy
I’m thinking Bernanke was channeling friends on the NBER, though given everything else that has come to light in recent years, it woudn’t surprise me much to learn the Fed has an undue amount of influence in NBER decisions on when recessions begin and end.
‘But even if you were, wouldn’t John Maynard Keynes say that if you could employ people to dig a ditch and then fill it up again, that’s fine, they’re being productively employed, they’ll pay taxes, so maybe Boston’s Big Dig was just fine after all.’
That has to be one of the dumbest of Keynes’ many oft-cited parables. Obviously you don’t grow food or build housing by digging ditches and filling them in again. Wouldn’t it be better to have the would-be ditch diggers provide some kind of useful service for the farmers, home builders and other productive members of society?
I’ve lived in places where the power lines are above ground on poles and I’ve lived in places where the power lines are below ground. Until every place in the US has power lines below ground, there is no such thing as a time when you can’t find a useful ditch to dig. I haven’t lost power in a storm (or even really worried about the possiblitlity) in decades.
Polly, though you raise a good point, that kind of “useful ditchdigging” is clearly not what JMK had in mind…
Was spending on armaments during WW2 useful? It got us out of the Depression. One could surely think of better ways to spend that money, but some will take their stimulus in no other form.
that kind of “useful ditchdigging” is clearly not what JMK had in mind…
Keynes was making a theoretical point- ie that any form of spending that gets money to the common man was effective at reviving the economy. He wasn’t recommending that we spend it wastefully. Only the Rush’s of the world willfully misunderstand this point.
I suspect that Keynes wanted people to dig holes and fill them again in the same sense that Jesus wanted those rich folks to pull beams out of their eyes.
There is no reason to think that JMK would not have perferred useful infrstructure spending to his hypothetical dig ditch/fill it in. He was making a rhetorical point that getting money into the hands of working people was necessary to get demand up, no matter what you were paying them to do. Finding a useful thing for them to do is just icing on the cake, though, of course it costs more to do something useful than it does to just dig a hole and fill it in over and over again.
He was making a rhetorical point that getting money into the hands of working people was necessary to get demand up, no matter what you were paying them to do.
——————–
I agree that that was his point, but unless something along the lines of ‘Amish work ethic’ is a necessary component to his economic theory, then the rhetorical point breaks down and quickly. I think it was his way of skirting around the issue and it honestly makes the theory come off as half baked.
“Pay people and they buy stuff”. Thanks for the tip professor. We’ll get right on that.
‘makes the theory come off as half baked’
Come on man, SPACE ALIENS! How can that go wrong?
Plan 9 From Outer Space!
“Keynes was making a theoretical point- ie that any form of spending that gets money to the common man was effective at reviving the economy.”
So then you could encourage spending on meth production or pay people to go around the neighborhood with a hammer, putting dents into other people’s cars or breaking their living room windows. Then you could pay others to counsel meth addicts or make sure they stay comfortably imprisoned, and pay others to do body work on the dented cars or to repair the broken picture windows. Pretty soon the economy would really be humming, as it matters not whether an activity is useful, but just whether there is an activity that gets money into people’s hands.
Thanks for the enlightenment!
but just whether there is an activity that gets money into people’s hands.
———–
If the only thing that is important is getting the money into people’s hands [and not whether the activity they do creates value], why have them work at all? Shouldn’t they just hand out checks ala Gegory Bush Jr’s Stimulus?
Is having people work and giving them money for that work really the most efficient way of distributing money if your primary goal is to get money to the hands of the individual worker as Keynesian Economic Stimulus?
encourage spending on meth production or pay people to go around the neighborhood with a hammer, putting dents into other people’s cars or breaking their living room windows
Hmm, that wouldn’t be a straw man, would it?
How useful was spending on bullets and bombs in WW2? They broke a lot of windows, and coincidentally brought us out of the Depression. Bastiat never had to answer that one.
why have them work at all?
Giving money to people for not working creates its own problems. But it would work as far as economic stimulus- quite well.
The profligate borrowing of one person is generally averred to be bad for that individual, but collective borrowing is good for the economy? We see that this does not hold true, because of the flexibility of prices. The increase in monies without a commensurate increase in enterprise pushes prices up. While debt increases, affordability of goods decreases. The only “good to the economy” is concentration of wealth at the center, because of higher money velocity, as the center takes a cut of all transactions. The increase of collective debt also increases the dependence of the individual on the central powers, as wealth is concentrated in the center.
We see that this does not hold true, because of the flexibility of prices.
Except for all those times it worked during the 50 years we followed Keynesian economic theory. But of course it was different then.
I think a lot of what Keynes wrote was around for over a century before him. He was an economic theory historian. Really, we could have been pretending to follow just about anything and looked good during the greatest expansion of debt in history.
“Hmm, that wouldn’t be a straw man, would it?”
No, it would not.
Rather, it would be an illustration of the patent absurdity of your above posts:
Done.
Doing nothing is less wasteful than deliberately breaking windows, only to create work for the glazier. The latter wastes energy which doing nothing does not.
Self-contradiction is unbecoming.
Too tempting to add another coment after “Done”.
Your compulsion is no match for the compulsion to borrow and borrow to keep up the illusion of actual prosperity.
I was “Done” trying to make a point for poor Bastiat (dead men tell no tales, supposedly).
But I wasn’t claiming to have the last word on debtbeathood…
Face it. Bastiat’s broken window theory died in WW2, when spending on arms etc actually ended the Depression. You might not like it, you might call it absurd, but it’s true nonetheless.
Self-contradiction is unbecoming.
Giving money to people will end a depression but will create its own problems. That’s not contradictory. There are problems other than depressions.
we could have been pretending to follow just about anything and looked good during the greatest expansion of debt in history.
The debt expansion from the war, that every pot-war pres paid down until Reagan? Or the debt expansion that started under Reagan, who switched us from Keynesian theory to Monetarism? I agree, Reagan’s credit bubble was unsustainable, since the money all went to the wealthy.
Europe is currently experiencing the failure of Austerianism. We’ll see what pulls them out of their depression, after they give up on Austerity. My money’s on Keynes.
Hey folks, how did we get into this mess? Talk about that. Who benefitted? Did future generations benefit? Who will be stuck with the debt?
Krugman’s more intelligent argument is that we should wipe out the debt by inflating it away. As opposed to defaulting it away. This way the federal government gets rid of some too.
Krugman’s more intelligent argument is that we should wipe out the debt by inflating it away.
You’d have a difficult time selling this plan to the huge cohort of voting retirees.
‘Krugman’s more intelligent argument is that we should wipe out the debt by inflating it away.’
We just saw this movie:
‘January 13, 2009 We’re All Keynesians Again
Nobody can accuse the government and the Fed of inaction’
‘With a federal-funds interest-rate target near zero, the Fed has pumped tons of newly created dollars into the economy over the last four months. This has doubled the monetary base (bank reserves and currency), a phenomenal increase that has shocked market watchers and raised fears of inflation. But all economic indicators are flashing recession.’
‘Last year’s crash was caused primarily by the deflation of a real-estate bubble that those two government-sponsored behemoths, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, had a large role in inflating. As the Japanese demonstrated in 1990, real-estate crashes cause far more collateral damage than mere stock-market slumps.’
‘What the Fed has mainly been doing since Black September has been transferring economic resources to government from the private sector on a massive scale. The government is the main beneficiary of the phenomenal rise in the monetary base. Paul Krugman of the New York Times has asserted that the Great Depression lasted 10 years because the New Deal didn’t spend enough. Japan tried to spend its way out of its postbubble malaise in the 1990s but ended up with a mountain of debt and a “lost decade” of little or no economic growth.’
‘Nevertheless, the incoming Obama administration is promising close to a trillion dollars in fiscal stimulus, and the Bernanke Fed seems to believe the way to deal with a collapsed bubble is to reinflate it.’
‘In 1935, six years after the 1929 Crash, the U.S. remained mired in the Great Depression — as it would be for five years more. At a congressional hearing, then Federal Reserve Chairman Marriner Eccles told Rep. Thomas Alan Goldsborough (D., Md.) that there was very little the Fed could do beyond what it was already doing to pull the country out of the doldrums.’
‘You mean you cannot push on a string,” said the congressman. ‘That is a very good way to put it,” replied Mr. Eccles. “One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123180502788675359.html
Let us not make the well-propagandized mistake of conflating Monetarism- flooding the financial system with money at superlow rates- with Keyensian theory, which calls for this money to go to the little guy.
They are quite different things, though the MSM and the PTB clearly would love to have us think of the two as the same.
The problem of course is all that money is ending up in a small # of hands. If the gov let the banks fail and instead used all the money to create jobs, yes building infrastructure, running high speed internet everywhere, high speed rail, etc etc. The money would go to many hands. This would work in a closed system to stimulate the economy, but due to our free trade system with slave labor states this money seeps away and is less effective.
“One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’”
This is true for the FED, but the gov can stimulate the economy by spending. The great depression was brought to an end by increased spending, first by the new deal and then the war, with a brief interlude of spending cuts and higher taxes that cut the recovery short. Again the problem now is free trade dilutes the benefits.
The bottom line is a bursting bubble is going to be hard no matter what you do. With stimulus spending if done right you end up with better roads, better technology infrastructure, better educated citizens. With austerity you end up with a lot of poverty and decay, crime and a much higher risk of societal collapse.
I see lots of critics of Keynsian spending where there are examples where it has worked. Does anyone have an example of a government that practiced austerity in the face of high unemployment, and low demand that ended well?
What we’ll do is we’ll inflate away the debt without telling people that we’re inflating away the debt, because we’ll keep monkeying with the CPI measures so that CPI doesn’t look so high, even though people are buying ground beef for what tri-tip used to cost.
How does that sound?
Well in the middle of this depression…almost ALL the job training funds in NYC have dried up maybe for the rest of the year.. hope and change my azzzzzzz
——–
Was spending on armaments during WW2 useful? It got us out of the Depression. One could surely think of better ways to spend that money
‘That is a very good way to put it,” replied Mr. Eccles. “One cannot push on a string. We are in the depths of a Depression and beyond creating an easy money situation through reduction of discount rates, there is very little, if anything, that the reserve organization can do to bring about recovery.’
As America contemplates the increasingly realistic prospect of a Mormon occupying the White House, it is refreshing to note that LDS church members have held high positions in government at least back to when Marriner Eccles occupied Ben Bernanke’s current post, during FDR’s presidency.
I like the “pushing on a string” quote; is Eccles attributed with this expression, or was there an earlier instance of its usage?
“With stimulus spending if done right you end up with better roads, better technology infrastructure, better educated citizens. With austerity you end up with a lot of poverty and decay, crime and a much higher risk of societal collapse.”
I can see why Republicans favor austerity, as the increasing wealth of the 1% would appear all the more impressive against the backdrop of a shelled-out, crime-ridden, Third World economy.
The problem is decreasing demand and increasing abillity to produce goods.
Technology has decimated jobs in the US, one itunes worker displaced 1000 sales jobs, Big box destroyed mom and pop, and now even big box employs too many, as we move into the Amazon.com era. Farmers produce more with less. Even manufacturing the bedrock of the middle class is done with robots and slave labor overseas. No one is addressing this. Our housing bubble and world wide credit bubble have hidden these things but without the massive expansion of credit the entire thing collapses. The freemarket will not address this. Take it to the extreme ie robots can produce 50% of what a fully employed population needs and figure out where the economy will go.
I want someone to address how austerity, and the free market will correct this. Certianly our current program of further concentrating the wealth won’t solve the problem.
Nice article on the death of the middle class
finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-fails-stem-middle-class-003000342.html
Technology has decimated jobs in the US…
I have to admit that I’m part of the problem. If I need something I usually buy used (cheaper) on eBay or Craigslist, and I suppose it helps the “green” movement.
“I want someone to address how austerity, and the free market will correct this.”
It won’t.
Thanks to the combined effects of globalization driving down the equilibrium wage level, and academic economists demonstrating convincingly through impenetrably complex technical arguments that the minimum wage does not lead to higher unemployment, we have something like 88 million discouraged (not unemployed) U.S. workers on the sidelines. Of course, nobody can claim they are paid less than the minimum wage.
Ron Paul versus Krugman, on Bloomberg. Krugman is advocating inflation, which on top of zero interest rates, will decay/steal non-debtors wealth at an even faster clip. And the hand-to-mouth debtors might not do so well either.
Oh, and “reckless” is the new meme/counter-meme.
Krugman Says Fed ‘Reckless’ to Allow High Jobless Rate
By Timothy R. Homan and Trish Regan - May 1, 2012 12:00 AM ET
Bloomberg
Krugman, whom Bernanke hired at Princeton in 2000 when he was chairman of the economics department, has said the Fed should tolerate inflation of 3 percent to 4 percent to boost the economy and put Americans back to work. He was responding yesterday to Bernanke’s comments last week that pursuing such a policy would be “reckless.”
Representative Ron Paul of Texas, appearing on the same show, rejected Krugman’s argument for higher inflation. Paul, who has written a book titled “End the Fed,” blamed governments for “debasing” their currencies.
“Inflation is theft,” said Paul, a Republican presidential candidate who said he will stay in the race until his party’s convention in August. “You’re stealing value from people who save money. It really destroys an important feature of the economy — and that is saving.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-30/krugman-says-fed-should-allow-inflation-to-rise-above-2-goal.html
It really destroys an important feature of the economy — and that is saving.”
Not if your savings are in gold, which is quite doable.
Problem solved, eh?
he has said the Fed should tolerate inflation of 3 percent to 4 percent to boost the economy and put Americans back to work. He was responding yesterday to Bernanke’s comments last week that
pursuing such a policyadmitting our inflation rate was already higher than that would be “reckless.”That’s one thing I disagree with Krugman on.
Inflation should not be the goal creating jobs should be the goal. The country is crumbling roads schools infrastructure energy independence could all be tackled.
Pumping free money into the system alone has only created weatlh for speculators. Higher food and fuel mean lower consumption of manufactured goods and services which means higher unemployment. I’ve never seen him address this. I think his belief is that if the value of our currency falls that we will be able to export ourselves out of this mess and that ain’t going to happen.
The problem now is that a much smaller fraction of the world population is needed to produce the goods for everyone due to technology. No one addresses this issue.
The problem now is that a much smaller fraction of the world population is needed to produce the goods for everyone due to technology. No one addresses this issue.
Which makes the current attempts to restrict access to family planning all the more baffling. Especially in a world needing fewer people.
A world needing fewer people? Tell that to Jimbob Duggar and all the fundy “quiverful” advocates who don’t care about the future of the environment since they’re all getting raptured anyway.
I’m all for population control and believe the limits of natural resources but that wasn’t my point.
If you need 80 people to produce the goods required of 100 employed people then 20 people are fired.
Now you may need 65 people to produce the goods needed for 80 employed and 20 unemployed people. So 15 are fired.
Now you only need 55 people to produce the goods needed for 65 employed adn 35 unemployed people.
Now of course employers seeing all the unemployed people feel they can treat current employees like sht. They cut their pay and benefits adn job security. These people then cut spending
Cutting population only decreases demand further. As does the hoarding and saving that go on when you see people next to you fired and down sized and poor.
This isn’t cyclical this is structural. A MASSIVE global debt bubble hid this for a while but without massive growth this is only going to get worse.
“Cutting population only decreases demand further”
This is the conundrum of capitalism. Sooner or later, global population is going to shrink. What happens if we go from our projected peak of 9 billion people down to say 1 billion peeps? Granted, this wouldn’t happen overnight, it could take 100 years or longer.
Would entire cities would be abandoned? How would “capitalism” handle year after year after year of negative economic growth, especially as populations age and produce and consume less?
How would “capitalism” handle year after year after year of negative economic growth
It can’t. And the planet cannot support unlimited growth.
Capitalism is a pyramid scheme
“Inflation should not be the goal creating jobs should be the goal.”
You obviously missed the key point, which is that higher employment may not be possible without tolerating a period of higher inflation.
“Would entire cities would be abandoned?”
Hmmm…
5 Modern Abandoned Cities
by Josh Clark
A view of Beichuan, China, in May 2008, following an earthquake that killed more than 50,000 people. The city may be rebuilt elsewhere, leaving the original version abandoned. See more pictures of natural disasters.
Chien-min Chung/Getty Images
In May 2008, officials in the Chinese province of Sichuan announced that the city of Beichuan may be moved to a neighboring county, leaving the old city abandoned [source: NPR]. Beichuan was one of the areas hardest hit by an earthquake earlier that same month, which killed more than 50,000 people. The quake destroyed most of the buildings in the city, and those left standing were deemed unsafe for human habitation.
If abandoned, Beichuan will become a ghost town. This term evokes images of tumbleweeds blowing through dust-choked streets in the western United States, rickety wooden buildings the only remnants of a boomtown built around gold or silver that eventually ran out. But Beichuan is a modern place — and it could soon be a modern abandoned city. It’s hardly alone.
There are modern abandoned cities around the world, and each seems to have an equally interesting story behind it. Some, like Beichuan, were abandoned following a disaster. Others, like San Zhi in Taiwan, were left derelict for more esoteric reasons. And in some cities, such as Detroit, certain districts have been forsaken.
The stillness that surrounds these towns seems almost palpable — and it’s strange to think that neighboring cities are still full of bustling people. Perhaps it’s our ability to relate to the people who lived here that make modern ghost towns so haunting.
Whatever our attraction to abandoned cities may be, it’s difficult not to be engrossed by them. In that spirit, here are five modern abandoned cities you might find interesting.
…
January 2013 here we come! (As I’ve been saying for months).
Is there any doubt whatsoever that they will just continue to kick the can?
I feel the same way. You have to wonder though….is the road infinite?
They really don’t want to. They can’t be absolutely sure that the public will blame the other guys (whichever side you are on). But I doubt anyone is going to fix this before the election. Could be wrong, but one side has to blink to do it and I don’t see anyone ready to blink in this town.
What’s the problem? We’ll be taking in more money and spending less. Our deficit will be smaller, no? We’ve been told this is the solution to our problems.
I suppose it depends on who the take the lion’s share of the money from. If it’s from the middle class, who tend to spend most of their income, it could affect the economy. If it’s from the richies, who tend to sit on their hoard of cash as opposed to spending it all, then perhaps not as much.
Cutting paychecks while spending less is not much different than austerity.
If you want to make progress, you keep paychecks the same while spending less.
Fewer dollars in everyone’s paychecks means less tax take for government. It also very likely means greater unemployment.
“Unless Congress and the president take action soon, the ship of state will run into massive fiscal restraint come the New Year.”
And if they do take action, they’ll be an even worse squeeze down the road. Generation Greed will leave behind higher taxes, diminished public services and benefits, and a lower standard of living. And they want to delay that reckoning as long as they can.
Got a teaching gig for the rest of the year; working everyday, teaching 4th grade. Little steps…long term subbing beats regular subbing; even though it means I won’t be working at my kids’ school for the next 6 weeks; which is where I have been working on making inroads. So that will have to wait while I answer another door of opportunity.
Doing a good job for the teachers I work for (and being popular with their students) pays dividends; and hopefully 6 weeks will make me a much better known entity to another school administration and its group of teachers. I am stoked, even though it is but for a short time.
Can I buy a house now? I wonder if it would be more , assuming I am interested in buying in order to lower my monthly expenses. Which sounds most prudent?
1)Try and get a fha loan; putting 3% down and having a lower PITI than the $1000/mo. I pay in rent. I see marginally livable looking pads, in the right district zoning for the kids, offered up by Fannie, for instance, for 80k. Yes I would be kicking the tires before purchasing a foreclosure.
2) I could pay cash for such digs and avoid most of my monthly rental expense. But risking 80k in its totality does not sound as enticing as putting 3k (equal to first, last, deposit on another rental) at risk, even if buying outright would be lowering the monthly nut much more; it would effectively wipe out the savings account.
3)Keep renting and try to work as much as possible to avoid losing all of our savings. When I get a full time job and have held it for a couple years; think about buying then.
In an atmosphere of falling prices, putting but 3k down allows an “out”; (known here as “walking”). But if the market has really hit bottom for starter homes here, which is not likely I know. However, some historic metrics have been met due to the bubble bursting. Places that went for 250k in 2006 are now being sold at 100k (3x median income has been achieved for the low end of the market; also 100x rent). Right now we pay 1k for a home that would sell for 100k.
I am skeptical and wonder if the FHA would really loan to me (if there are still no-doc federal programs as Ben has said). Because I have a job, savings, down payment of 3% to 20% or more, and 725 FICO. Income, not so much,
So should I wait, buy a shack for cash, or jump into a loan from whence I know not where the long-term income will come from….
The (current) no doc loans are for FBs only. If you wait a while I’m sure something like this will show up.
If an FB is underwater (like, say my relative in North Carolina) how would they go about to get one of those “FB no doc loans”?
You still don’t get it, Mike. You are better off without savings. You need to check the rules in Oregon, but I think most states protect your primary residence in bankruptcy. And a lot of hospitals also don’t consider your primary residence when deciding if you qualify as medically indigent. Stop thinking like a person with a middle class income. You don’t have one. Your kids are on s-chip. You are on food stamps. Cash in the bank is money that anyone can take from you if you have an emergency.
You need to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer to get the details so you know the exact rules, but if a primary residence house is protected from being liquidated to pay off creditors, then that is where you need to put your money. Secure a roof over your kids heads. You need to set up your life so you can survive on two part time minimum wage salaries.
Au contraire, Polly, I do get it. Our income sucks. We need to protect it by sinking it into a primary residence.
But that does not mean we are not combatting our income situation; in the ways you have outlined and others. I CAN get a teaching job (I had one in another part of the state which I gave up to live here in Central Oregon. We will repeat and relocate for a job when/if it becomes necessary); They also pay me $20.00 to $25.00/hr to do the job I already have. Which has become mostly daily as I establish myself as a desired sub that will follow lesson plans; leave notes, etc. And here the teacher picks the sub so those who promote themselves successfully get work. Not minimum wage; which I feel compelled to tell you is still a low wage but it is not minimum wage. It is better than min wage due to my licensure that I got in college. Not attributable to my BA but my post grad licensure program(and to keep this I need a Masters). As far as in state, after work programs, these are my options: ESL, Special Ed, or (a MS in) Councelling.
It is in my best interest to put the savings into a house so they don’t get taken by some other emergency in our lives. I agree but it seems strange to hear from the “stay away from housing” crew to buy a house; with all my savings mind you.
Anyone have any different suggestions?
Even with nanny state benefits and the rent paid; and using all the tactics you outlined where we reduce our bottom line; min. wage would not make ends meet even if my wife and I worked full time at this rate.
They don’t pay teachers that low just yet. It ain’t middle class, as a sub, I know. I am finding, though, as I make more contacts; I get more sub jobs. As I get to know more administrators/teachers, I raise my chances of procuring a teaching position for myself. Plus I will be specializing in niche areas that have some demand when I go about getting my masters.
I do not believe that subbing jobs for myself will dwindle to 0; I have established myself with several teachers as their go-to person. More people in the sub pool will not change their loyalties. I also have experience doing private tutoring that I can also do. I do not expect to make “minimum wage” forever.
Wife is putting in hours so as to be a good candidate for a job at the school that includes benefits, although only $11.00/hr.
I am setting myself up to be qualified and desirable for a middle class teaching job with benefits. I know of a man who subbed for 7 years before getting a tenured position. He did not get his job by throwing in the towel and resigning himself to a fate of never making it to middle class.
My plan is to put our $$ in a house; all of it. Before I spend it or it gets spent for me.
Thanks, in part, to your insistent, but accurate, advice.
I am setting myself up to be qualified and desirable for a middle class teaching job with benefits
We are both full-time teachers with Masters degrees and 2 kids. Sure doesn’t feel middle class from where I’m sitting.
Preparing for the worst isn’t the same as giving up. It is just preparing for the worst. If your family was forced to live on two part time minimum wage jobs, you and your wife would qualify for Medicaid. With all of your health care covered, food stamps, earned income tax credit/child tax credit (assuming thery aren’t removed from the tax code) and a paid for house, your family could probably survive. I am also taking into account your oft stated desire to keep your kids in one particular school district where they are happy and doing well.
You have no idea if your current success with getting substitute gigs will continue. It looks good now and that is great, but they could change the rules in a way that cuts you off. What if they stop allowing the teacher to pick the subs? What if a lot of teachers in the county are laid off and they make a rule giving subbing priority to the laid off teachers? You can’t know that they won’t.
And don’t take out student loans to get that master’s degree. They aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. Don’t do it.
And don’t take out student loans to get that master’s degree. They aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. Don’t do it.
Agreed. This is not the time to enter into financial obligation(s).
I have to agree with Polly.
You don’t have the luxury to take out any loans. You don’t even have the luxury of draining your money on rent “until things get better.” And you certainly don’t have the luxury of being “enticed” into anything. Buy a home outright and make sure it’s in good condition where you can hole up on very little income.
Just wanted to insert this little find:
“Moreover, you can take cash early without penalty from a regular IRA, but not a 401(k), to pay for higher education, make a down payment (of up to $10,000) on your first house.”
Polly,
If I transfer $10K directly into our escrow acct from my IRA (I’m 55) will that constitute part of the down payment, even if we are putting down 100%? Or can they disqualify it, when they see no MID? I would love your opinion.
No idea off the top of my head. Ask again tomorrow and I’ll try to find something. I’d check the IRS website first. Search for a publication on IRAs and their rules. That is where I would look first.
I used to print out the IRS publications to bring to open book exams when I was in law school. Way better than most of the commercial resources on the details, and they often have an index.
Wow, Oregon’s exemption is only $50k. We get $250k here.
I think you should by 2 or 3 houses. You could buy up to 4 $100k houses with 20% down for each one. Rent those suckers out. Make some money!
You gotta be kiding overdog; they would kick me off the blog!
Housing and landlording is why I have any $$ to begin with. But times have changed; they actually seem similar to the time I first got into real estate as a cheaper place to live, in 1995. But things will likely not explode again in the same way as it did 1996-2006, so I am asking some questions before taking a risk with investing the savings in an a)leveraged or b)paid-in-full house.
Maybe the fact that I have landlorded for 17 years, which has allowed for a middle class standard of living, or better, and it has been my best paying, longest standing, job in my life is what gives me pause? Or why I bother taking my lumps here. Oh, BTW, congratulations to self for my, albeit temporary, placement in my field. Makes me feel like embracing permanent minimum wage jobs a bit less in all honesty, becoming more employable in my field shouldn’t be overlooked by you all.
RE paid me off handsomely by investing 60k in 1995; will it do so again if I roll the dice? Polly is probably seething just to hear this kind of “Donaldesque” talk, but I have heard and respect your advice, Polly, and likely it is the path I will follow most closely for my own circumstances.
But IF it pencils out; and I know I can keep it rented out; it is the “profession” I am most used to; why not landlord a property or two? Not by accident. And having learned a thing or two regarding screening tenants.
I would still rather use my degree and get a teaching job, not landlord, and have a paid for house. But getting my druthers is not tantamount; its the kids, silly!
Wouldn’t I like not to be the only destitute ducky (that has not fled to be with own kind)on this blog. Plenty of duckies would like to have my choices with what to do with some savings.
What are the answers for the hundreds of millions of people in this country working ducky jobs that don’t translate into savings. who don’t have 100k. May not matter for my situation directly; knowing lots are never going to have any savings just means more tenants to rent to. Also, I will be competing with these folks for the almighty $$. I could use the savings like overdog suggest to have tenant or two.
What about a bottom dollar duplex, where I still get some rental income but also have a minimally leveraged place to stay?
IDK…..
Overdog is joking.
Whatever you can buy with cash and not owe anything. My assumption is that even a bottom dollar duplex would cost too much.
Hi Mike,
Have you though about managing other peoples properties, i.e helping out the accidental landlords who have gotten in over their head, and don’t/can’t sell the house and also detest dealing with the renters. Professional management companies charge like 10% of the rent and really stick it to the homeowners with maintenance charges. So if you were to charge a fair rate you could possibly build a client list over time. I know of a few cases where people got all excited around a late night infomercial and now absolutely hate dealing with their renters. You may have to check what licenses you’ll need, but i thought i may suggest this line of work to add to your income stream.
You may have to check what licenses you’ll need,
‘Round here I think you have to be a…realtor.
Yeah, in Ca as well, if it is not your property. Property Managers are licensed.
I’ve got a neighbor (in our tenement) who moved this weekend. I believe she rented a townhome, paying around $1,750-$1,850- for a 2+2 from my research. If they waited and saved, they could have bought a nice little home, but their vehicle got stolen a few weeks back, and they were in a rush to get the heck out of here.I didn’t realize machinist make good dough. I looked it up, and was surprised.
We should have never crossed paths with all our neighbors, but this housing nightmare put us in a bad place.
You aren’t going to make any money renting 100K houses even at 1K a month.
I’m with the rest - buy the one house for cash. Unless you are certain you’ll be leaving Bend in a year or 2.
Besides, if the perfect job materializes elsewhere you’ll have the option of selling owner financed.
There is never a better time to own Treasurys than on days when investors the world over are feeling anxious. It seems like this kind of serially renewed enthusiasm for Treasurys could go on for a few more years to come.
Treasury prices rise after news of Spain recession
April 30, 2012
NEW YORK—Investors bought U.S. government bonds Monday after fresh worries emerged about Spain’s economy.
Spain said it was back in recession for the second time in three years. Investors worried that Spain might need a rescue as Greece and Ireland did. But rescuing the fourth-largest economy in the 17-country euro zone could prove to be too expensive for Europe’s bailout funds.
U.S. Treasurys are viewed as one of the safest investments in the world and usually rise in value when investors are anxious.
…
“U.S. treasurys are viewed as one of the safest investments in the world and usually rise in value when investors are anxious.”
And that is because they can be easily converted into - what? - CASH maybe?
And cash is useful because it can be used to - what? - BUY things?
but prices in treasuries are going up…doesn’t that mean they are bought or sold for even more cash?
“And that is because they can be easily converted into - what? - CASH maybe?”
There is that, plus the fact that a Treasury is merely a promise from Uncle Sam to make a fixed series of future CASH payments to the owner.
So long as CASH is king, it is fairly natural for Treasurys to do well.
ECONOMY
Updated May 1, 2012, 4:04 a.m. ET
Europe, in Slump, Rethinks Austerity
By DAVID ROMÁN in Madrid and STEPHEN FIDLER in Brussels
Spain has joined seven other euro-zone nations in recession, according to data released Monday, providing new evidence that austerity policies are failing to spark confidence in the region’s economies ahead of a week of expected anti-austerity protests and a string of important national elections.
Spain’s economy contracted for the second quarter in a row and the country’s banking sector suffered a widespread credit downgrade, piling further pressure on the government. WSJ’s Sara Schaefer Munoz analyzes its options. Photo: Getty Images
Almost every piece of new economic data in recent weeks has reinforced the impression that swaths of the European economy are contracting.
The worsening economic picture is raising political tensions around the euro zone—both French and Greek elections this weekend are expected to castigate incumbents. A growing number of politicians, led by François Hollande, the Socialist candidate in the French presidential ballot, and by Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti, have called for a shift in the focus of policies toward growth and away from austerity. Their calls have been reinforced by the weakness of many euro-zone economies, which some economists argue undermines the contention that cutting budgets pays dividends in increased economic confidence.
Among the 17 euro-zone nations, Spain joined Belgium, Greece, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia in recession. Outside the bloc, the U.K., Denmark and the Czech Republic are also in recession.
…
Spain joined Belgium, Greece, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia in recession. Outside the bloc, the U.K., Denmark and the Czech Republic are also in recession.
Go tell the Austerians, thou who passest by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we died.
Austerity is a pretty handy prevention for the problem these peoples have. Hard to solve bankruptcy with it though, or with more spending. The creditor will have to practice austerity, because they will not be repaid. Yet they project this cure upon the debtor. Madness!
Austerity is a pretty handy prevention
The key to prevention is for it to occur before the problem. Something the highly-moral lenders should have thought of when they were extending credit.
Bank of America isn’t bullish on Merrill Lynch anymore.
BUSINESS
Updated April 30, 2012, 9:00 p.m. ET
BofA to Cut From Elite Ranks
Pressure on Costs Expands Wave of Job Reductions to Investment Units at No. 2 Bank
By DAN FITZPATRICK And DANA CIMILLUCA
Amid the banking industry’s relentless belt-tightening, even Bank of America Corp.’s moneymakers aren’t safe.
The Charlotte, N.C., company is planning about 2,000 staff cuts in its investment banking, commercial banking and non-U.S. wealth-management units, said people familiar with the situation. Those operations were vastly expanded with Bank of America’s 2009 purchase of Merrill Lynch & Co.
CEO Brian Moynihan is trying to show he can bring costs under control.
The reductions are significant because of whom they target: the high-earning employees whose efforts helped Merrill Lynch account for the bulk of Bank of America’s profit since the financial crisis.
The cuts come on top of a plan announced last year that will see Bank of America eliminate 30,000 jobs over three years in its consumer banking divisions. The bank employed 278,700 people as of March 31.
The move is the latest effort by Chief Executive Brian Moynihan to show investors he can bring expenses under control at a time of sluggish U.S. growth and revenue-reducing federal regulations. Personnel expense at Bank of America rose 17% between 2009 and 2011—a period in which revenue dropped 22%.
The No. 2 U.S. bank by assets already is facing a wave of high-profile defections in its institutional businesses, such as investment banking, amid Wall Street’s annual post-bonus job-hopping season. The upheaval comes as investors are pressuring banks to rein in expenses without giving ground competitively. Despite a 46% rise this year, Bank of America shares have lost a third of their value in the past year, amid questions about the industry’s profit outlook.
Other banks such as UBS and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. also are struggling to bring down costs and retain talent. In the second half of 2011, two dozen global financial firms set plans to cut 103,000 jobs.
Some of Bank of America’s cuts are part of a multiyear overhaul called Project New BAC, after the bank’s ticker symbol. The bank has told regulators it could sell off parts of its U.S. franchise or its U.S. trust business if economic conditions were to worsen significantly, according to people familiar with the situation.
Bank of America declined to comment.
…
Am I reading that right? They’re cutting the group that MADE them money during this recession?
“The reductions are significient because of who they target: the high-earning employees whose efforts helped Merrill Lynch account for the bulk of Bank of America’s profit since the financial crisis.”
Many of these “high-earning employees” are the ones who have collected gigantic pools of money from the Unwashed Masses so as to become the Unwashed Masses’ money managers and get to tap some big fees for doing so.
Now that the money has been collected these guys are now on the outs because Merrill doesn’t need them anymore.
The money under management will stay, the fees will stay, but the guys that made it all happen are destined to be gone.
But, not to worry, another fresh (and cheaper) batch will soon be on its way to replace them.
Chrun ‘em and burn ‘em.
Usually this phrase applies to Merrill’s clients. In this case it applies to it’s employees.
When you profits come from being able to seperate conservative investors from their money then you need a lot of smart and evil people. When your profits come from investing in treasuries using zero % loans from the FED you don’t need so many. There are fewer people left in the US with money to steal and those that are left are smarter.
“There are fewer people left in the US with money to steal and those that are left are smarter.”
I claim to be neither smart nor rich, but at least I am not dumb enough to hand my dough over to some investment adviser at a Wall Street Megabank so they can use it to fund their next yacht purchase.
You’d have to be really, really stoopid to do that sort of thing.
Luckily, since it’s different in NYC, none of this news of a new wave of layoffs in the banking sector has any implications for home prices.
Large layoffs loom on Wall Street
By Stephen Gandel, senior editor April 30, 2012: 6:00 AM ET
Latest wave of financial industry cuts could eliminate 21,000 jobs, rivaling the financial crisis.
FORTUNE –Perhaps the only thing more broken than Wall Street’s business model is its staffing strategy.
After adding thousands bankers in the past two years, financial firms again appear to be on the verge of cutting that many positions and then some. Consultants and Wall Street recruiters say banks could eliminate nearly 21,000 jobs from their securities divisions in New York alone. Worldwide cuts could be even larger. Recruiters say big banks are in the process of finalizing their downsizing plans, and that layoffs could start soon.
The latest round of job cuts could rival those that happened during the financial crisis. Back then, which was less than four years ago, Wall Street eliminated 28,000 positions. But that round of downsizing included the collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, and the biggest crisis in the financial markets since the Great Depression. By comparison, the stock market is up this year, and just last week banks reported better than expected earnings for the first quarter. What’s more, at the same time large firms are firing, many smaller investment banks have been staffing up. As a result, overall employment on Wall Street might not drop as much as it did after the financial crisis.
“Hiring is going on, it’s just not by the big banks,” says a top Wall Street recruiter Gary Goldstein, who runs Whitney Partners.
…
Of course they could cut dealmaker pay instead of heads, and use the added staffing to do some actual due dillegeance on the deals they do.
Nah.
What’s more, at the same time large firms are firing, many smaller investment banks have been staffing up. As a result, overall employment on Wall Street might not drop as much as it did after the financial crisis.
“Hiring is going on, it’s just not by the big banks,”
Sounds like Dodd-Frank might be working.
Latest wave of financial industry cuts could eliminate 21,000 jobs, rivaling the financial crisis.
This should benefit the taxpayers come bonus time.
NYC real estate poised to collapse
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46310822
A bit of hyperbole. What they say is collapse would just be a return to sanity. There is enormous unmet demand for NY real estate at a price the 99 percent can afford.
At these prices, NY real estate could cause the economy to collapse.
Hey Slim your parents telephone story made the Consumer Reports,
CR link
That’s actually The Consumerist website, rather than the Consumer Reports magazine. But, hey, it’s publicity going viral.
Az Slim
That a gal. Good job. You did a great service.
I was on our local news 30 years ago, to expose a shady VW repair operation that preyed on young women. If you didn’t pay their ransom, they left your car in pieces and you had to tow it to another repair shop to get a running VW. I was the media contact, and found the other victims. They had a laundry list of charges and got jail time. Don’t mess with our type, right slim!
Of course, my husband recorded over the VHS tape, my 2.5 minutes of fame. LOL
Thank you, Awaiting! I’ve been keeping my folks entertained by calling and reading them the stories that have appeared so far.
Reason for the phone and read: Mom and Dad don’t have a TV. And Mom’s not the Internet junkie that her offspring is.
Az Slim
Your spunk and energy surpasses mine. Your parents are damn lucky that you watch out for them. Stories like your folks really irks me.
I signed my widowed mother up for lifeline (sister to life alert) for low income seniors, and they raised her rate, and she signed a lifetime agreement underwritten by the county. Boy, they needed an aspirin when I read them the riot act.I guess they thought she was a senior, and they could take advantage of her. Well, look out, miss pit bull was in charge. LOL I handed them their heads on a platter.I had a binding contract I was going to ram up their backside.
I signed my widowed mother up for lifeline (sister to life alert) for low income seniors, and they raised her rate, and she signed a lifetime agreement underwritten by the county. Boy, they needed an aspirin when I read them the riot act.I guess they thought she was a senior, and they could take advantage of her. Well, look out, miss pit bull was in charge. LOL I handed them their heads on a platter.I had a binding contract I was going to ram up their backside.
Same thing happened when I called that phone leasing scam company. They said that my folks would have to pay a surrender fee if they weren’t going to return the phones.
I hit the roof.
First of all, what’s so precious about these phones anyway? If they’re not returned, so what? They’re vintage equipment without much, if any, resale value. So, by not returning them, are we depriving this company of what? Telephones for their museum?
And what’s up with that surrender fee anyway? It’s not like my folks haven’t overpaid for these phones already.
After hearing about the surrender fee, blowing my stack and being put on terminal hold, I contacted the TV station in Philadelphia. The rest, they say, is history.
m2p
Sorry about that, time for new glasses.
Many, if not most of us, have the picture of a healthy economy being the following:
1) Not corrupt.
2) Companies and society run with low debt and an eye on sustainability.
3) Strong production of heterogeneous goods and services.
4) High quality output.
5) Large numbers of skilled workers.
6) Well compensated workers with good work/life balances.
Well, according to The Economist, there is an economy which has these factors - Germany. Much of the rest of the world, the IMF and the financial industry, are all focused on making money from debt and the alchemy of financial products which are mostly logical constructs and sophisticated bets. The Economist article discusses the applicability of the “German Model” to other countries.
What Germany offers the world
Other countries would love to import Germany’s economic model. But its way of doing things is a lot less amenable to export than the wares it produces
Apr 14th 2012 | BIELEFELD | from the print edition
The Economist
Omnipresent but obscure, family owned but by no means puny, Beckhoff is among thousands of “hidden champions” that account for much of Germany’s prowess as a manufacturer and exporter. Its sales leapt 34% to €465m ($608m) last year. It is aiming for €2 billion by 2020. Beckhoff exports more than half its output. But its manufacturing is mainly in high-wage, rule-bound Germany.
Largely thanks to its Beckhoffs, Germany looks like a bright exception to the dispiriting rule among developed economies. True, its economy contracted more than those of most rich countries during the 2008-09 world recession (see chart 1). But the jobless rate rose by less than in all the others, peaking at 7.9%. And nobody talks about downgrading Germany’s AAA credit rating; it can borrow money for practically nothing.
Hans Beckhoff, boss of the automation company that bears his name, does not come off as a throwback. His silver-grey hair is modishly long, his collar unbuttoned. But some of his habits seem distinctly old-fashioned. Take his approach to debt: he’s against it. Investment in the company is funded by him and his three siblings, the only shareholders. It is the same with nearby Miele, a 113-year-old maker of kitchen equipment and white goods, with annual sales of €3 billion. This is not the most efficient way to run a company. With more leverage Mittelstand firms could boost their pre-tax profit by several points, notes Armin Schmiedeberg of Bain, a consultancy. He thinks they are wise not to.
The point is not to maximise short-term profit, says Markus Miele, a managing director at his firm, but to aim at “where we want to be when we hand over to the next generation.” Mr Beckhoff says he fends off monthly offers to buy his company. Lack of financial ambition goes along with the observance of unwritten sumptuary laws. “Families behind the Mittelstand live in an acceptable, modest and healthy way,” says Mr Beckhoff.
But it is another matter to excel in high-end capital goods or to assign to enterprise, unions and the state roles that Germany has been practising, with disastrous interruptions, for more than a century. During the crisis Italy introduced a short-time working scheme like Germany’s, but the results were disappointing: Italian firms and their workers could not mimic Germany’s ordered flexibility. Germany can offer lessons in how to get back into shape; but the essence of its model is rooted too deeply to be copied with ease.
http://www.economist.com/node/21552567
didn’t germany lend a bunch of money to some other country that can’t pay it back.
can’t remember the name…was in the paper though.
The American model of “work/life balance” is how to balance three part time jobs with no benefits and paying for $4 gas.
And “toughing it out” when someone gets sick as you can’t afford $100 for a Dr’s office visit plus who knows how much more for the medication.
“You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn’t it? I mean, that is fantastic that you’re doing that.” —George Bush to a divorced mother of three, Feb. 4, 2005
I think everybody knows we’d be better off if we ran our businesses and our country for the long term rather than just next quarter’s bonus. But our system isn’t set up to reward that. And anybody who wants to change the system has to fight the people who get rich from the current system. And here we are.
…instead we run it like an empire.
I’ve worked close to some Very Big corporate boards and believe me when I say they tend to think years ahead.
The “quarterly” is something that was created by Wall St. to try and control the companies and quantify the investment risk.
The other problem of course is that all countries can’t be exporting powerhouses.
Germany’s wealth has also been tied to exporting to say Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc, My guess is that these markets aren’t doing so well.
…but their biggest customer is China.
I’ve been wondering about the schizophrenic housing market. I too notice that some houses come on the market for just a few days before they go under contract. Other houses of similar style will sit for literally years with nary an offer.
So, what’s the difference? Price and location. And one more biggie - potential depreciation. The houses that sit I’ve noticed tend to be in areas that have more foreclosures and tend to be poorer. But even houses in these areas will get snapped up if prices are low enough to take away the sting of future depreciation.
I’ve talked to a couple of people over the past few years who bought house and then had to sell for unforeseeable reasons (divorce, moving for work). What’s common in their transactions was that they were able to sell without too much of a loss - 10-20K below the buying price. They jumped right back into the housing market because they didn’t get particularly burned.
However, larger losses would have likely soured them on owning or even driven them to strategic default. So now, it seems to me, that for NAR at least, trying to get houses to credibly bottom - which means dealing with the shadow inventory, not just a media blitz - would probably be in their interest. And it would align with buyer interest too. Credibly-bottomed house prices would allow people to buy houses even in more marginal areas and allow them to be confident that they won’t lose too much money if they have to sell in the next 5-10 years.
This kind of action is similar for commercial property as well.
When markets are tough, Class A office (in terms of location and quality) competes with Class B office in terms of rent. So, the difference in rent between the two may be quite small (or much smaller than usual).
As markets recover, what you see is that Class A office absorbs faster, and a more traditional difference in rents between Class A and B reasserts itself. As this difference comes back into a market, Class B begins to recover more strongly.
One the residential front, this is why people say that the best markets are the “last to fall, and first to rise”.
How things change - I remember when Alan Greenspan was called “The Maestro” by an adoring public. Now, the public impressions I tend to get are more those of recklessness and cluelessness. It would have been hard to imagine back in the heady days of the tech bubble and the early days of the housing bubble that Greenspan could ever be held in such low esteem.
I Saw the Crisis Coming. Why Didn’t the Fed?
By MICHAEL J. BURRY
Published: April 3, 2010
The New York Times
ALAN GREENSPAN, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, proclaimed last month that no one could have predicted the housing bubble. “Everybody missed it,” he said, “academia, the Federal Reserve, all regulators.”
But that is not how I remember it.
[...]
As a nation, we cannot afford to live with Mr. Greenspan’s way of thinking. The truth is, he should have seen what was coming and offered a sober, apolitical warning. Everyone would have listened; when he talked about the economy, the world hung on every single word.
Unfortunately, he did not give good advice. In February 2004, a few months before the Fed formally ended a remarkable streak of interest-rate cuts, Mr. Greenspan told Americans that they would be missing out if they failed to take advantage of cost-saving adjustable-rate mortgages. And he suggested to the banks that “American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage.”
Within a year lenders made interest-only adjustable-rate mortgages readily available to subprime borrowers. And within 18 months lenders offered subprime borrowers so-called pay-option adjustable-rate mortgages, which allowed borrowers to make partial monthly payments and have the remainder added to the loan balance (much like payments on a credit card).
Observing these trends in April 2005, Mr. Greenspan trumpeted the expansion of the subprime mortgage market. “Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit,” he said, “lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/opinion/04burry.html?_r=1&hp
‘Everybody missed it,’ he said, ‘academia, the Federal Reserve, all regulators.’
Here’s what’s weird about this; DC had put together a plan for receivership of the GSE’s in the spring of 2005. How could no one know it was all going to fall apart?
Here’s what’s wierd about this.
Hank Paulson gave up a huge salary at GS to take a job at the treasury which allowed him to cash out of his GS stock tax free (saving him 200,000,000 dollars making him the highest paid gov official ever) and he converted to treasuries.
Anthony Mozillo started selling his stock by the truck load while pumping it up in speeches.
GS started shorting the MBS it was selling to it’s customers.
Let’s see who was invested with Paulson’s Hedge Fund.
When one of these pompous people get up and say this I want to say show us how you invested show us your tax return and then we’ll believe what you say about not knowing.
The hedge fund shorting MBS was run by John Paulson, not to be confused with Hank Paulson.
“This is the strongest global economy I’ve seen in my business lifetime” - Henry Paulson, July 2007
Both Paulsons made out like bandits during the Great Recession…
Unfortunately, he did not give good advice. In February 2004, a few months before the Fed formally ended a remarkable streak of interest-rate cuts, Mr. Greenspan told Americans that they would be missing out if they failed to take advantage of cost-saving adjustable-rate mortgages. And he suggested to the banks that “American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage.”
Fed Governor Ed Gramlich tried to warn Greenspan about the dangers of subprime home loans. And Greenspan blew him off.
PBS covers this era on Frontline (now online accessible). Some of the Documentaries (Brooksey Born vs. Greenspan, is the topic of one) were very telling.
I had a financial planner explain to me how mutual funds take their fees - daily. The average is 1.8% a year divided by 365 and that is charged to the original contribution daily. They have other charges as well. Right now I wish the banks paid an average 1.8% on GICs.
With banks still overlevered, profits now being eroded again, tons of stimulus just holding the line, and now probable global recession - I wonder if I will have to pay interest to a bank to hold my GICs.
Recession, Depression, or - - ?
“Why U.S. house prices won’t recover”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-us-house-prices-wont-recover-2012-05-01
The big lie?
A housing price recovery is dramatically lower prices by definition.
The second big lie?
They attempt to characterize falling prices in the past tense.
Nice try marketwatch.
69Charger has so far been silent in the comments on this article, but the other NAR stooges have been picking up the slack
I got 69chevette banned a few weeks back. Working on BG.
Nice try marketwatch.
I don’t get that. The overall point of the article is that house prices generally match inflation over time, which is hardly a rah-rah RE talking point. I also don’t think he’s saying buy now, although he should have pointed out the importance of not buying when prices are above their historical average, plus inflation. You’re left to infer that yourself.
His other point also isn’t clearly stated, which is to make sure your imputed rent equals or exceeds your cost of ownership.
No… Read the article.
The messaging is prices stopped falling and they’re suggesting it’s ok to buy housing.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-us-house-prices-wont-recover-2012-05-01-1225310?link=MW_Nav_PF
Corrected link.
How about a piece entitled, “Why FBs won’t recover”?
So “Octomom” is bankrupt.
You could have knocked me over with a feather, when I heard the news. Never saw that coming…..
Octo-nut is a trainwreck.
I feel sorry for those 14 kids,
as well as us Ca taxpayers.
She had the nerve recently to
say she has never been on
welfare. BS. For starters,
Kaiser (8 births, etc…) was paid
by Medi-Cal (Medicaid in Ca.)
And she gets $2,000 mo in Food
Stamps. No welfare my arse.
I wish she would just go away.
Paul Krugman is doing an AMA over on Reddit. Thought some might be interested in reading his responses.
Is Newt Gingrich gonna be there? Maybe they could cook up a plan to defend the Lunar Colony from the Space Aliens. Save the economy and add a new province in one swoop.
BTW, don’t worry about the usename. Sometimes I Cantrememberwhereiputmykeys
Nothing that dramatic so far, just his normal positions. Some of his responses are interesting to read, though. In one he talks about where he has been wrong in the past.
I heard he was saying we’re in a bona fide depression now, and that the Obama admin should spend spend spend!
Nude Gingrich has one thing right….. “let SS wither on the vine.”
How about it republicans?
“The $300 million was a direct payment to the state that Bondi can decide how to use. To make a suggestion, go to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com.”
I am going to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com. and suggest Pam Bondi send Ben Jones of thehousingbubble@gmail.com $1 million of the $300 million so he can continue to keep some Floridians out of foreclosure by having people talk them out of buying overpriced houses that they can not afford.
Bondi wants input on spending $300 million in foreclosure cash
by Kim Miller
Attorney General Pam Bondi is giving Floridians until May 14 to submit suggestions on how to spend $300 million that was part of the nationwide attorneys general settlement with banks announced in February.
Florida got a total of about $8.4 billion worth of mortgage relief and cash from the agreement, which was between 49 attorneys general and five banks, including JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Bank of America and Ally Financial.
The $300 million was a direct payment to the state that Bondi can decide how to use. To make a suggestion, go to http://www.MyFloridaLegal.com.
“Florida is one of the hardest hit states in the country in terms of foreclosures, and I’d like to hear from Floridians about ways we can help homeowners and offset the devastation caused by the foreclosure crisis,” Bondi said in a press release Monday.
The settlement agreement says the $300 million can be used for a range of activities such as hiring housing counselors, establishing state and local foreclosure assistance hotlines, creating state and local foreclosure mediation programs, providing legal assistance, and training and staffing of financial fraud or consumer protection enforcement efforts.
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Tags: foreclosure, foreclosure settlement, Foreclosures, Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, pam bondi, real estate
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Interesting, data just came out yesterday from the Commerce department: Units available for rent are dropping, and units available for sale are dropping (Homeowner vacancy rate - definition on p. 12 of link). It varies around the country, there are increases in some areas and decreases in others.
Government policies are working great. More money to the FIRE puppet masters one way or another.
On the other hand, it does look like a return to more historical norms. Without seeing the data for the 70s and 80s that is.
NOTE: PDF
RESIDENTIAL VACANCIES AND HOMEOWNERSHIP IN THE FIRST QUARTER 2012
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/qtr112/files/q112press.pdf
Neuromance, the link to the historic data is here for apartment vacancies:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/historic/index.html
Generally speaking, we are not close to historic norms overall.
However, we are pretty close to historic norms in the West, and farther away generally in the other regions.
Interesting find, thanks.
“Units available for rent are dropping, and units available for sale are dropping (Homeowner vacancy rate - definition on p. 12 of link).”
Number of U.S. home owners is dropping, and number of traditional U.S. households, the kind with a mom, dad and kids who create demand for family-sized McMansion tract housing, is dropping as well…something here doesn’t quite add up, does it?
Chalk it up to more Washingtonian math, I guess.
Hey Alpha, I just got back from a lovely, beautiful jog on the beach, and as soon as I sat down, I thought, “I need to complain about high house prices.”
So here I am.
Hmmmm…..look what’s being considered in Spain.
“Rajoy is now considering a program to protect banks’ capital by getting bad assets off their balance sheets. To do this in a way that strengthens the banks, though, the government will need to put in money — money it doesn’t have. If it taps funds set aside to guarantee deposits — an approach that is being debated — this would only increase financial risk with one hand while reducing it with the other.”
So with almost 25% unemployment their answer is to create a huge vulnerability in the people’s dwindling deposits? There it is again….the transfer of wealth to cover their bad risks.
And surprise-surprise, the Spanish people are taking to the streets in huge numbers. Something about May Day and their not being very happy about the moribund state of the Spanish economy.
Just posted a paragraph about Spain. Here is the Bloomberg article it’s from: Spain’s Slump Means Europe Must Rethink Tough-Love Policy
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-30/spain-s-slump-means-europe-must-rethink-tough-love-policy.html
Key point from the linked article:
“[I]t’s absurd to assert — as Germany has — that Spain and other struggling economies can claw their way back to economic stability through fiscal austerity, despite slow or no growth. If Europe’s leaders are betting they’ll have time to act if the situation deteriorates, they’re wrong. The pressure on Spain is no longer productive. It’s undermining a government that is doing all it can. If the gamble fails, things will unravel quickly — too quickly, maybe, for Plan B to take effect.
“The time for Plan B is now. “
Agent in Secret Service scandal has Rochester connections
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120501/NEWS01/305010047/Arthur-Huntington-Roberts-Weslyan-College-Secret-Service?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home
Agent in Secret Service scandal has St. Pete connections
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/secret-service-agent-reported-at-heart-of-scandal-once-wore-st-petersburg/1227769
WHOA! It’s fate. All men that leave Rochester must come here, then go there.
My destiny is to be with a Columbian prostitute.
One of my former students is in jail with a NEGATIVE commissary balance. How exactly do you get credit in jail?
They tend to develop their own internal economies, including piggy-back ride credits, cigarette-based currencies, and trade in goods and services with the non-incarcerated population.
All told, prison economies are a pretty remarkable subject — a stunted microcosm of the larger economies that lie outside of prison walls.
This story is made for Freakonomics.
Piggyback Rides Replace Cigarettes as New Prison Currency
Posted on April 29, 2010 by Jeff Wysaski
Piggyback rides have replaced cigarettes as the preferred type of currency in the San Quentin Correctional Facility in Marin County, California, according to prison officials.
The move comes largely due to decreased demand for cigarettes within the borders of the prison walls. Just as the larger society is trending towards healthier lifestyle choices, so too are our nation’s most dangerous inmates. This desire to improve personal habits has dramatically reduced the amount of cigarette smokers at San Quentin.
Struggling to find a new product that is more in demand than tobacco, inmates quickly settled on piggyback rides. The idea – which was proposed by three-time murderer and current inmate Rocko Colton – was initially met with resistance by the majority of the prisoners at the maximum-security facility.
One free piggyback ride around the yard was all it took to change their minds, however.
In response to this inaugural piggyback ride, inmate Walter Smalls best summed up the majority viewpoint of the entire criminal population when he said, “Weeeeeeeeeeee!”
According to prison officials, piggyback rides have proven a remarkably good alternative to cigarettes. As one correctional officer puts it, “they’re readily available, enjoyable and addictive – everything a cigarette is without the death.” And, as Mr. Colton adds, “Just plain mother frocking fun.”
…
One of the many services provided from within prison walls is to train future participants in organized crime syndicates both inside and outside the prison.
The upshot: The human potential for organizing autonomous corporate units to carry out self-defined objectives is a powerful force, even inside of tightly controlled environments such as prisons. Informal credit systems are a critical element in such systems.
415 - KUMI Prison Gang
The 415 KUMI is a Black gang that originated in the San Francisco Bay/Berkley area of California in 1985. The are now referred to as the 415 KUMI. 415 represents the area code for the region. When added together, the numbers 4+1+5 = 10. KUMI is the Swahili word for “ten.”
The 415’s advocate “taking back the streets” by any means necessary. In California’s Folsom Prison, the 415’s have provided pools of inmates, such as the Bloods, for recruitment into the Black Guerilla Family prison gang – BGF. They aspire to resume activities formerly carried out by the Black Guerilla Family.
KUMI 415 have been reported to use prison guards to authorize violence against fellow inmates, such as the case in August of 2003 when former correctional officer Leon Holston was charged with aiding and abetting, battery with serious bodily injury, filing a false report by a peace officer and unlawful communication with a prisoner (Associated Press Newswires 9 Sep 2004).
…
Dow at four year high. How is that cash and that diatribe against dollar cost averaging working out for you? Phhhht!
I don’t know, I’m all in on space alien defense technology, groupon and lottery tickets.
Let’s compare notes after the next 20% down leg in stock prices.
Would this be a good time to buy into the renewed rise?
According to this article, it’s the facts that the Fed is pulling the puppet strings that make this renewed rise rise.
May 1, 2012, 4:02 a.m. EDT
The Fed will provide, it has no choice
By Mary Anne & Pamela Aden
The stock market is looking good.
A renewed rise is getting underway, and this will be reinforced if the Dow Industrials can rise and stay above 13,250 points.
It’s currently close to that level, and if it’s surpassed, it would be a new high for the move, suggesting the bull market is strong and on its way to higher highs.
Addicted to the Fed
The markets have become addicted to the Fed, and that goes for all of them. If it looks like the Fed’s going to keep money flowing, the markets rise. If not, they decline.
This is reminiscent of the Greek situation last year. The markets reacted to the news of the day as they waited with baited breath. And here again, the same thing is essentially happening.
Only this time, all eyes are on the Fed.
This week, Bernanke said he stands ready to boost the economy, and that’s all that was needed. The thought of more liquidity pushed most of the markets higher and this will likely continue.
The bottom line is, the Fed has to provide. It has no other choice. That’s basically what the Fed’s been doing for years. That’s its job, to fix things… and its track record is quite consistent. But now, the markets are far more focused on this than before.
Bernanke has said over and over that he’ll keep monetary stimulus going as long as it’s warranted. This could be due to a sluggish recovery, high long-term unemployment, problems in Europe, bringing the former bubble down easily, fear of deflation or another recession, the slowdown in China, the weak housing market or the election… you name it.
If the Fed is concerned enough, it’ll take action to keep it all together.
You may not like it, but it’s the facts. The markets have become addicted to the Fed and, like puppets, they will react based on the way the puppeteer pulls the strings.
…
U.S. housing demand is dying. You can stick a fork in this bubble now or later, but the fundamental, demographic-based demand that drove it is gone for good.
Homeownership Rate in U.S. Falls to Lowest Since 1997
By John Gittelsohn - Apr 30, 2012 11:56 AM PT
Blocks of Cuyahoga County are filled with vacant and stripped homes on Feb. 2, 2012 in Cleveland, Ohio. Photographer: Benjamin Lowy/Getty Images
Graham Fisher’s Rosner on U.S. Housing Market
Keys hang on the wall of a five-bedroom row house for sale in the Logan Circle neighborhood of Washington, D.C. The homeownership rate probably will settle around 64 percent, where it stood from about 1965 to the mid-1980s, because credit conditions are similar to that era, according to Patrick Newport , U.S. economist with IHS Global Insight.. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
The U.S. homeownership rate fell to the lowest level in 15 years in the first quarter as borrowers lost homes to foreclosure and tighter inventory and credit kept buyers off the market.
The rate dropped to 65.4 percent from 66 percent in the fourth quarter and fell a full percentage point from a year earlier, the Census Bureau said in a report today. That is the lowest level since the first quarter of 1997, and down from a record 69.2 percent in June 2004.
Mounting foreclosures are displacing borrowers, while a lack of inventory has kept home sales from accelerating amid record affordability, the National Association of Realtors reported April 19. Stricter mortgage standards are also limiting purchases as rental demand surges, said Paul Diggle, property economist with Capital Economics Ltd. in London.
“Although house prices and mortgage rates have fallen to a level that makes buying preferable to renting, ongoing problems accessing mortgage credit are preventing many households from taking advantage,” he wrote in a note today.
The U.S. apartment vacancy rate fell to 4.9 percent in the first quarter, an 11-year low, according to New York-based Reis Inc. (REIS) The vacancy rate for rental homes was 8.8 percent in the first quarter, compared with 9.7 percent a year earlier, the Census Bureau said in today’s report.
Home Vacancies
Of the estimated 132.6 million U.S. homes, 18.5 million, or 13.9 percent, were vacant in the first quarter. A year earlier, about 19 million homes were vacant, according to the report. That includes homes for sale or rent or held off the market, and vacation properties used seasonally.
“Both homeowner and rental vacancy rates dropped during the first quarter, which obviously bodes well for housing,” because shrinking inventory will boost rents and spur demand for new homes, Stephen East, an analyst with International Strategy & Investment Group LLC, wrote in a note to clients.
Homeownership may fall further and repossessions may increase this year as lenders step up foreclosures after a $25 billion agreement by the nation’s largest loan servicers in February to settle allegations of improper practices. Foreclosure filings fell to the lowest since 2007 in the first quarter as banks slowed actions before the settlement, according to RealtyTrac Inc.
The ownership rate may drop below 64 percent by the end of 2015 and stay there for years, Scott Simon, the mortgage bond head of Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, California, said in an e-mail today.
“It will be lower by 2017,” he said. “It will be lower in 2020.”
…
Going, going, gone.
THE NEXT AMERICA
Census: More in U.S. Report Nontraditional Households
By Doris Nhan
Updated: May 1, 2012 | 6:41 p.m.
April 30, 2012 | 10:46 a.m.
Married straight couples with families now make up less than half of U.S. households, marking the first time the group has dropped below 50 percent since census data on families was first collected in 1940.
The April report provides a first look at household and family data from the 2010 census and indicates a stark rise in nontraditional homes in America.
Though the U.S. has gained 11 million households since 2000, traditional husband-wife family households now comprise just 48 percent of them. The bulk is of family homes with a single head of house, nonrelated households, and people living alone.
Between 2000 and 2010, the percentage of growth for all types of households, except for husband-wife, was in the double digits. Husband-wife households with children actually fell by 5 percent over the same period, the only group to decline.
…
Homeownership Rate Down Again – Time to Rethink Policies Promoting Homeownership?
By Michael Kraus on April 30, 2012
According to new information from the Census Bureau, the U.S. homeownership rate fell again in the first quarter of 2012. The overall rate is now 65.4%, down from 66% in the fourth quarter of 2011. This is the lowest level in fifteen years. Homeownership peaked at a rate of 69.2% in the summer of 2004.
The number of Americans owning homes has dropped largely as a result of foreclosure, and will likely to decline further as banks begin more foreclosures. Foreclosures were down in 2011 due to increased legal scrutiny over the legality of many foreclosures. Following the mortgage settlement, it seems likely that foreclosures will increase in the coming year. RealtyTrac reported last week that foreclosures were up in the majority of U.S. metro regions, and foreclosure starts are rising as well. A Bloomberg article today quotes Scott Simon, the head of mortgage bonds for PIMCO, as saying that as many as 6 million more borrowers will lose their properties over the next five years.
The vast majority of those that lose their homes will become renters (they will have to live somewhere). The concept of REO to rental schemes has become popular of late, and if these plans are successful, they would sop up a large chunk of housing inventory (I am skeptical that massive REO rental programs will be successful due to the logistical complexities of managing large numbers of rental properties). Nevertheless, the shadow inventory of unsold homes not on the market is potentially huge. Nobody really knows how many homes are in shadow inventory, but estimates range from 1 million to 10 million homes.
It also seems likely that many lenders are holding REO properties off the market in order to prevent a freefall in home prices. Delaying the sale of these homes helps banks avoid immediately marking the homes to their new market value. If banks had to mark all these properties to their market value immediately, their bottom lines would take a massive hit. Delaying this process allows banks to spread the losses over a longer period of time. What this all boils down to is a massive excess supply of housing.
At the same time, there is a lack of demand for these homes. Unemployment, lack of consumer confidence, falling home prices, low rates of household formation, demographic trends, and tight credit all depress the demand for homes. This imbalance in supply and demand ensures continued declines in home values.
All of this leads to a larger question: should the United States continue to pursue a policy of promoting homeownership at all costs?
…
ECONOMY
May 1, 2012, 5:26 p.m. ET
Fannie Mae Tried Loan-Forgiveness Programs
By ALAN ZIBEL And NICK TIMIRAOS
Fannie Mae conducted small tests to reduce loan balances of homeowners who owned more on their mortgages than the properties were worth in 2010.
But the mortgage-finance company didn’t expand the pilot programs after concluding they were difficult to operate and the benefits weren’t clear, according to a letter from the firm’s federal regulator.
The loan-forgiveness pilot programs, some of which haven’t previously been disclosed, were outlined in a letter sent in April by the Federal Housing Finance Agency to Democratic lawmakers.
They come as the agency, which oversees Fannie Mae and the smaller mortgage agency Freddie Mac, considers whether to accept new funds made available by the Treasury Department to allow some troubled homeowners to receive principal forgiveness. Proponents of principal forgiveness argue that reducing loan balances for troubled homeowners could reduce the chances that those loans default.
Two banks participated in different programs, Wells Fargo & Co. and Citigroup Inc. The Wells Fargo program cut loan balances of borrowers who received a loan modification through existing government programs.
But by the end of last year, the loan performance of 200 underwater mortgages whose balances were reduced hadn’t differed from a control group of borrowers who received standard loan modifications that don’t reduce principal, according to a letter from Alfred Pollard, the FHFA’s general counsel. Fannie chose to terminate the pilot with Wells Fargo in March 2011 due to certain data-keeping errors, he wrote.
A more complex pilot program with Citi, which included a “shared equity” component that would have allowed Fannie and Citi to share in any future home-price gains for homes owned by those who received principal forgiveness, didn’t move beyond the planning stage.
Fannie officials determined in mid-2010 that it wouldn’t be able to implement the program until spring 2011 due to operational concerns, according to company emails obtained by the lawmakers. Mr. Pollard said in his letter that Fannie proposed an alternate, more straightforward program that Citi wasn’t interested in.
Fannie’s loan-forgiveness pilot programs, “to the extent they were begun, ended due to complex operational issues involving system changes, accounting considerations and the interest level of Fannie Mae’s partners,” wrote Mr. Pollard.
…
May 1, 2012, 4:47 PM
Plot Thickens on Mortgage Write-Down Debate
By Alan Zibel and Nick Timiraos
Fannie Mae conducted small tests to forgive debts of homeowners who owed more on their mortgages than the properties were worth in 2010. But the mortgage-finance company didn’t expand the pilot programs after concluding the programs were difficult to operate and the benefits weren’t clear, according to a letter from the firms’ federal regulator.
The letter, released Tuesday, disclosed that Fannie developed pilot loan write-down programs with Citigroup Inc. and Wells Fargo & Co. in 2009 and 2010 but they either didn’t launch or barely got off the ground.
Fannie’s loan-forgiveness pilot programs, “to the extent they were begun, ended due to complex operational issues involving system changes, accounting considerations and the interest level of Fannie Mae’s partners,” Alfred Pollard, the Federal Housing Finance Agency’s general counsel, wrote in a letter to Reps. Elijah Cummings (D., Md.) and John Tierney (D., Mass.).
The letter, written in April, was released as the regulator considers whether to accept new funds made available by the Treasury Department to allow some troubled homeowners to receive principal forgiveness.
Messrs. Cummings and Tierney have for months accused the FHFA’s acting director, Edward DeMarco, of obstructing efforts to forgive debts of under-water borrowers. They have been probing Fannie’s pilot programs since earlier this year, when a former Fannie employee called attention to the issue.
They suggested in their own letter Tuesday that the FHFA shelved the Citi pilot for ideological reasons. “This was not merely a missed opportunity, but a conscious choice that appears to have been based on ideology rather than Fannie Mae’s own data and analyses,” the lawmakers wrote.
Mr. DeMarco quickly took issue with the lawmakers’ assertions.
“Having just received a copy of your letter regarding principal forgiveness, I wish to convey my disappointment with this letter, the failure to contact FHFA to address your concerns, and the release of selective elements of the proprietary and confidential materials you received,” he wrote. “I strongly disagree with any characterization of FHFA’s work or motives as anything but in keeping with the professionalism expected of this agency.”
The housing regulator has been under pressure from Congressional Democrats and the Obama administration to reconsider its opposition to loan-write-down programs.
…
ECONOMY
Updated April 30, 2012, 10:53 p.m. ET
Freddie, Fannie Departures Escalate
By NICK TIMIRAOS
Concerns are growing about departures at mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, a situation that some executives argue is making it difficult to manage the companies and their $5 trillion mortgage business.
The latest sign came Monday when Freddie said that Anthony Renzi—the executive who oversees the single-family mortgage business, by far the company’s largest and most complex division—would leave this month to take another job in the industry.
Mr. Renzi, who has spent two years at Freddie, joins a growing list of industry veterans who have departed over the past year. The chief executives of both Fannie and Freddie have said they plan to leave this year. In the past two years, dozens of senior managers, many with long tenures, have left.
Worries over compensation and low morale are playing a role in prompting Fannie and Freddie employees to look elsewhere. Freddie last month revamped the way it pays its employees amid concerns that Congress might sharply cut pay for rank-and-file workers at the companies, after scrapping bonuses for senior executives.
Charles E. Haldeman Jr., Freddie’s chief executive, said in an interview that attacks from Congress, second-guessing by regulators and the lack of a game plan for the firm’s future have hindered retention efforts and have “made it much more difficult to operate as a business.”
In an email to employees, Mr. Haldeman said Monday that his own successor would be named “very shortly.” The frontrunner for the job is Donald Layton, the former chief executive of online brokerage firm E*Trade Financial Corp. and an outside director of American International Group Inc., according to people familiar with the matter. The board is also considering Gerry Pasciucco, who oversaw the winding down of the troubled AIG Financial Products division, and Shekar Narasimhan, who runs a housing-finance consultancy.
Freddie warned of “disruptive levels of turnover at both the executive and employee levels” when it reported its 2011 financial results in March, and it warned that “could lead to breakdowns in many of the company’s operations.”
The exodus of top talent began shortly after Fannie and Freddie were taken over by the government in 2008 through a process known as conservatorship. With the job market in the Washington area improving for the financial-services sector, the departures are becoming more frequent and potentially destabilizing.
…
NY REGION
Updated May 1, 2012, 10:11 p.m. ET
Protest Hits City Targets
Occupy Falls Short of General Strike
By PERVAIZ SHALLWANI, JESSICA FIRGER and ALISON FOX
Occupy Wall Street activists march through Midtown with arms clasped during the May Day demonstrations in New York City on Tuesday.
Thousands of Occupy Wall Street protesters fanned out across New York City Tuesday, heralding a fresh start for the anticorporate movement after months of inaction but falling short of a goal to convince large numbers to ditch work for a day.
The demonstrations were bolstered by some large city labor unions, which obtained permits for the protest but didn’t support organizers’ call for a general strike. As many as 6,000 people were in Union Square in the afternoon, before marching to the Financial District, a law-enforcement official said.
At least 50 people were arrested for offenses ranging from disorderly conduct to a 24-year-old man who allegedly wrote the world “shame” on the side of a building at 545 Fifth Ave., a law-enforcement official said.
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