Bits Bucket for July 7, 2012
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Were the recent heatwave and storms God’s birthday present to America for being such an imperial aggressor, or is it Global Warming (which we all know is a conspiracy Al Gore made up to sell more movie tickets)?
You may select one answer, but both are correct
Welcome to the Second Gilded Age.
I’ve been following the Con Edison (NYC’s electric and gas co.) lock out pretty closely, as my brother-in-law is one of the 8500 workers locked out in the labor dispute.
And before anyone gets all public-unions-are-destroying-our-economy on me, just a reminder that Con Ed is a private company with record profits. The pensions are not creating any kind of financial hardship for the company.
They locked them out with 40 minutes notice (not a strike), cancelled everyone’s health insurance, are denying the paychecks from the last week of work, and trying to prevent the workers from picketing anywhere near any Con Ed plants because of “national security”.
The company wants to switch from defined-benefit pensions to 401(k) plans for new hires and unvested employees. Management also wants to nearly double workers’ contributions for health insurance.
Wisconsin got every CEO in the country salivating at the chance to kill organized labor.
Meanwhile, it’s gonna be 100 degrees here in Gotham. 5,000 desk managers in charge of the NYC power grid that is usually kept running by 8500 skilled union workers. A black out would be he11.
Well, as you yourself pointed out, this is private dispute. What’s it to us?
You’re an interested party so your comments are hardly dispassionate.
I’m a New Yorker, and I couldn’t care less about a private dispute between employers and employees. How does this concern any of us?
Thank you Cat.
As a side note from someone who works with ConEd frequently, they own NYC. You all should know it. They do what they want, when they want to do it. And yes they have problems.
Back to housing.
How does this concern any of us?
When the lights go out, it’ll be your concern.
When your free speech rights are denied, it’ll be your concern.
How does this concern any of us?
Wealth concentration affects everyone. Recall the chart posted the other day that shows the relationship between union membership and wealth inequality.
If the lights go out you might find that the public has even less sympathy for the “thugs” than they have currently.
The MTA employees learnt it the very hard way.
And nobody’s denying them their free speech rights.
Speechify away.
And nobody’s denying them their free speech rights.
Uh yeah they are.
ConEdison is asking state supreme court to ban workers, whom they locked out, from protesting at its properties.
Free speech does not apply to private entities. It applies to public speech. They can go to Central Park and speechify away.
Do you know anything at all about free speech?
Free speech does not apply to private entities. It applies to public speech. They can go to Central Park and speechify away.
Do you know anything at all about free speech?
They are trying to ban them from picketing IN THE STREET or SIDEWALK anywhere near the plants.
Do you know anything at all about free speech?
There are laws about these things. You are not allowed to do whatever you please.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Ask polly!
“They are trying to ban them from picketing IN THE STREET or SIDEWALK anywhere near the plants”
They’re not trying to ban them all. They requested the court to allow no more than four picketers within 25 feet of plant entrances. Apparently they were interfering with employee access to the property.
The exact wording and exact actions matters a lot. There are limits to what citizens can do to limit access to a private place of business even if they are on a public walk. In DC they can’t block the sidewalk and have to keep moving. If they touch anyone, they have gone past speech to assault (unwanted touching).
Details, details, details.
I don’t recommend getting all your information from one side - either side.
employee access to the property
You meant scab access
“How does this concern any of us?”
It’s definitely more interesting than one of 2banana’s countless anti-Obama or anti-public sector union diatribes.
Hmm I like 2banana’s posts. They provide some variety of opinion. Of course I am one of those people who did not vote for Obama* and will not vote for him this time.
Government run medicine from someone who won’t even send his kids to public school. He won’t even allow government teachers to teach his kids reading and writing. But everyone MUST has health car run by government czars.
All animals are equal but some are more equal.
*You know Obama someone who just said a few months ago in several speeches that he should be paying more taxes. Wonder what’s stopping him?
All animals are equal but some are more equal.
He will be cancelling his annual Martha’s Vineyard vacation this year. The optics are not good for an election year.
Back to housing. Here in suburban Boston things are moving. There does not seem to be an inventory crunch as in other places but things are moving at a good clip. Of course there are the overprice places that have been on the market a good year. What do people think? That someone from out of town will show up with box of money and bucket of stupid? Or is it the other way around?
He will be cancelling his annual Martha’s Vineyard vacation this year. The optics are not good for an election year.
Watch him take a vacay somewhere less upscale. Look out, Gulf Coast, guess who’s coming back.
Or he could come to Tucson. We wouldn’t have to give him hell. The weather would do that for us.
It is a private dispute, but not paying paychecks from the last week that they actually worked is thoroughly illegal. Time to take the bosses to court. And to apply for unemployment. If your employer says you can’t come to work and we aren’t paying you, then you have been effectively fired.
Isn’t this what lawyers are for?
Again, I fail to see how this concerns any of us.
It concerns us only to the extent that we care about SFrenter and this impacts her family. In other words, you may not care at all.
If there is a problem with the power in NYC and there are no employees around to fix it because the company is posturing to try to change the contract, it might concern you a lot more, but that is purely hypothetical until a transformer blows. The mayor’s office may care more about the possibility of power outage that is not handled properly since the city will have to help with any aftermath.
It is interesting to the extent that companies are using Wisconsin as something to aspire too. It confirms the idea that when public employees lose rights, private companies will go very far (including breaching private contracts and breaking the law) to try to collapse their own responsibilities the lower level.
The post relates to jobs, duh.
No one is forcing you to read or respond to it, are they?
One could equally argue that they are using the hottest days of the year to deliberately go on strike assuming that the public has their back but that in turn may backfire as the MTA learnt a few years ago when they tried to pull a similar stunt!
” First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
Yes, because increasing the health insurance premiums and switching to 401(k)’s is easily the equivalent of Nazism.
LOL.
You guys are hilarious!
Colorado,
I protested the use of this simile the last time it was used, and I’m going to protest it again. Getting locked out of your place of work because the company wants to dump the defined benefit pension in favor of a 401(k) is not the equivalent of being sent to a Nazi concentration camp. Martin Niemöller ended up in Dachau.
And I thought that SFrenter said that the Con Ed workers weren’t on strike? If the company “started” it, it is more likely the company is trying to pressure the city to pressure the union.
You don’t get it.
If the Robber Barons can screw someone else and we don’t speak up they will eventually screw everyone. They’ve been screwing us for 30+ years by dividing us, and it’s working wonderfully as their share of the wealth is skyrocketing, while ours shrinks.
But yeah, it’s no concern of ours.
It confirms the idea that when public employees lose rights, private companies will go very far (including breaching private contracts and breaking the law) to try to collapse their own responsibilities the lower level.
Yes.
And again, 8500 workers were locked out - they did not strike.
I think Niemöller’s simile is very apropos. If we take the attitude that it’s “not our concern” it will someday be “our concern” but then it will be too late.
And not caring about each other (or worse, envying each other) is exactly what the Robber Barons want. They want me to not care when someone else loses their pension or has their job offshored, so that when they come after me (like when my super profitable former employer cut everyone’s pay) no one will care either.
You don’t get it. It’s already too late.
I agree that the whole “our concern” aspect of it is relevant. But he was sent to a concentration camp with death chambers and crematoria. Getting switched to a defined contribution pension system isn’t the same thing as being gassed to death. It is something that the unions were able to negotiate with their employer and they shouldn’t give it up. It is in their contract and they should make the company live up to the deal it made. That is why they have a union and a contract - so they have some ability to protect themselves.
Still isn’t the same as being murdered.
We have a group of our fellow citizens who seen to have the attitude “I dont have health care/a defined benefit pension/pay raises, so why should anyone else?”
Cramdowns on the workforce never get translated into lower costs for the customer. They always end up in the pockets of management and stockholders, in that order.
And again, 8500 workers were locked out - they did not strike.
Were they threatening to strike, though?
ConEd may have simply decided that a threatened strike was inevitable, and there was some benefit in the element of surprise.
I agree with Colorado here. The greater implications, at least to me, seem crystal clear.
Solar panels.
Niemoller was not the originator…it’s an Aesop fable.
I am a conservative but I don’t totally buy into the argument that the unions are destroying us etc. Maybe it’s because I used to be in one and those were good times. It wasn’t management that busted my union, it was our own members. Or rather, management came up with a scheme and the members bought into it so they wouldn’t have to pay dues.
It just so happens that the public employee unions are basically the last strong unions still standing after 30 years of union disintegration. It doesn’t make me particularly eager to protect them, since I have lost my union.
source?
It doesn’t make me particularly eager to protect them, since I have lost my union
If I can’t get into the lifeboat, nobody else should either. One for all and all for one and all that stuff…
Some castrated sheep had been gathered together in a flock with the rams. Although the sheep realized that the butcher had come into the flock, they pretended not to see him. Even when they saw one of their own seized by the butcher’s deadly hands and taken away to be slaughtered, still the sheep were not afraid. Foolishly, they said to one another, ‘He keeps his hands off me, he keeps his hands off you; let him take whom he takes.’ In the end, there was only one sheep left. This is what he reportedly said to the butcher when he saw that he too was about to be taken away: ‘We deserve to be slaughtered one after another since we didn’t realize what was happening until it was too late. The fact is, as soon as we saw you here in our midst, back when we were all together, we should have killed you at once by smashing you between our horns.’
Thank you, michael. Between Niebhur and Niemoller, our old friend, Aesop, has been seriously co-opted.
SF Hows brooklyn?
Also here is the big part….Real Estate taxes…hidden from the public.
One of Con Ed’s biggest expenses RE taxes.. I saw one estimate that it’s 14-17% of our bill.. So why are the Libs demanding a lowering of taxes and pass it through to the customer?
It would be a wash for Con ed.
SF Hows brooklyn?
Friggin hot.
Getting ready to do the NYC triathlon tomorrow morning. Hello, humidity.
Yeah but its only going to be 88 tomorrow…good luck…give us your time when you finish & have your friends take pictures…
Yeah but its only going to be 88 tomorrow
They keep changing the forecast…every time I look it says hotter.
DC is going up to 103 today. 111 with the heat index.
wish we could have a quick nyc hbb meet up somewhere before you go back. faster WT…
The thermometer outside my (DC suburburban) kitchen reads 105.8, It’s in the shade, but near the AC unit so it’s probably a little high.
wish we could have a quick nyc hbb meet up somewhere before you go back
aNYCdj, you can catch me running down 72nd Street, if all goes well I’ll be at CPW at about 8 am. I’ll be the one sweating.
Con Ed is a government regulated monopoly. It can not raise or lower rates without the state’s OK. It also enjoys a legal monopoly with its customers.
Hadley a “private company” like a Ford or Burger King.
Its unions have some of the best benefit and pensions in the COUNTRY. They are paid by rates that the customers are forced to pay if they want electricity, steam or gas (hey - that almost sounds like a PUBLIC union). BTW - ConEd has the HIGHEST rates in the country.
These high rates are just crushing residents and businesses.
And before anyone gets all public-unions-are-destroying-our-economy on me, just a reminder that Con Ed is a private company with record profits. The pensions are not creating any kind of financial hardship for the company.
So often disputes reported in the press don’t include wages and benefits and facts. During the Wisconsin dispute nary an article included wages / other facts. How much do the ConEdison workers make? What do they want and what is CE offering?
So if the union gives in (or whatever) and the workers pay more health care and give up pensions, will the rates go down to reflect those savings?
So if the union gives in (or whatever) and the workers pay more health care and give up pensions, will the rates go down to reflect those savings?
Of course! Why would you think otherwise.
Snark off.
Like this guy?
Nice work if you can get it:
When Duke Energy bought out Progress Energy on Monday, it formed a utility company of colossal proportions, which will provide power to more than 7 million Americans. And a whopping company means a whopping CEO compensation package — even if that CEO is no longer the CEO. Bill Johnson resigned after just hours at the helm of the new firm, reports The Wall Street Journal, and walked away with a severance package that could be worth up to $44.4 million.
“So if the union gives in (or whatever) and the workers pay more health care and give up pensions, will the rates go down to reflect those savings?”
I recall many years ago hearing that the UAW had agreed to give backs with GM. Less than a month later, large bonuses were awarded to executives. I couldn’t believe the company could be that stupid. It was a terrible PR move.
The company wants to switch from defined-benefit pensions to 401(k) plans for new hires and unvested employees.
Management also wants to nearly double workers’ contributions for health insurance.
So management is responding to the conditions of the labor market. Lower costs can mean lower prices or smaller increases. Lots of people maybe not you sfrenter don’t connect the dots between labor costs, taxes, other inputs, and price.*
What is the worker’s current contribution for health care?
*Years ago when I live in San Fran someone with a table set up in front of Macy’s tried to get me to sign a petition to the the minimum wage to double to about $11. I tried to no avail to explain it was effectively a tax and I did not want to pay it. Oh no she counter. Macy’s and all the merchants would pay it. So I counter where do they get their money? Still could not get through to her.
In WI, Walker’s eeeevil plan included making public union workers contribute….wait for it….8% of their health care costs. No, that is not a typo. 8 (eight) percent. And for this he was called the most radical governor in the history of the world.
That is how out of touch with reality unionists are. They think paying 8 cents of every health care dollar they consume is the end of the world. Speaking as someone who pays 100% of my health care costs, ’scuse me while I don’t shed any tears.
You know that’s not the only thing that was in the law. If that was the only point of contention, there would not have been such a fuss. But go ahead and fixate on the health care costs and the eeeevil unions.
“Lower costs can mean lower prices or smaller increases.”
That’s assuming competition exists for what’s being sold. In this case, that’s not true, so lower costs mean higher profits.
responding to the
conditions of the labor market. fact that organized labor has effectively been crushed and we are in the second Gilded Age.Its not that hot if you wear African clothing.
That stuff really works.
Is it the materials or design or both? Can you point to an example of what makes it unique in a way that helps keep you cooler? I’m curious what the critical difference is…
First of all it’s loose…lots of air flow.
“I’m curious what the critical difference is…”
Mainly the Ox Tail fan.
Neither. We had record cold temps on the 4th of July in Phoenix.
I heard realtors in Phoenix are the biggest liars of all.
“Neither. We had record cold temps on the 4th of July in Phoenix.”
Record cold temps = anomaly that means nothing
Record hot temps = proof of global warming
Wrong…record cold temps are evidence of man made global warming as well.
They are both indicators of climate change theory. The theory predicts an overall increase in temperature over time but this is almost undetectable by people given the change and the time period. It also predicts increasingly chaotic weather swings, and these appear to be happening now. More record highs and lows is what the theory predicts.
More record highs and lows is what the theory predicts.
My impression was that that was the _revised_ theory—initially all they talked about was the “warming”. Then when the data didn’t support that theory (the last ten years haven’t shown the warming trend predicted by the theory), then the revised it and started focusing on “both extremes.”
IMHO, the weather has always been chaotic, and it has always been unpredictable, and there have always been record-breaking highs and record-breaking lows somewhere.
Actually, no. I was in grad school when the original theory came out. Weaver , who won a Nobel prize for his research, was nobody at the time and pointed out that the standard deviation was two or three times higher (I don’t remember the exact numbers) when the average temperature increased by a few degrees. In other words, more severe swings in temperature as the temperature rises. This was in the 90’s when oil was $20/barrel and there were no secret agendas or vested interests except the usual ones of publishing papers to get research money. So far, I don’t see anything empirically that contradicts the theory.
How cool did it get in Phoenix on the 4th that it set a record?
Not sure as I was out of town. I heard it was 84 and cloudy. Today it’s 110 and sunny.
I agree with Mr Smithers on this one. When its cool its an anomaly. When its hot its evidence of global warming.
Cloudy in Phoenix in July? Is that normal? Did the clouds come with high(er) humidity?
Man, you know things are weird when Phoenix is one of the cooler spots in the country on the 4th of July.
It’s kinda funny. We regularly trash the MSM for their slipshod coverage of economic conditions and facts. Yet, some of us (like Smithers) seem to take the MSM reports on climate change as properly reflecting the scientific analysis of the issue. Pretty funny.
No, scientists do not believe the entire effect of climate change in the short-term is going to be warmer temperatures everyday all the time. No, scientists do not have only 1 position they refuse to update as new information and knowledge accrues. Perhaps in 1980 climate change science, with less knowledge behind it than today, said one thing, but more recent knowledge about how the weather works mean it says another. The OVERALL claim — that climate (not weather) is changing — remains.
Or, is the view that if some scientist in 1200 claimed “The moon is made of cheese” then now, 812 years later, the only respectable scientist has to embrace the same claim? New information shouldn’t be factored in to our understanding?
IAT
IAT-
One not so subtle point, and that is because of the size of the system being studied, it is not really possible to conduct the same kind of experimental science that is typically done. Yes, experiments can be done, and replicated in the lab, but they need to be applied to a very large complex system using more theory and modeling than repeatable experimentation. Any conclusions drawn are highly dependent upon other assumptions made in the models (like how much heat is trapped by atmosphere, carbon dioxide being taken in by the oceans, etc.), as opposed to direct conclusions drawn from replicable lab experiments.
Then again, getting this one wrong is kind of important, so erring on the side of caution isn’t necessarily unreasonable.
Agreed.
The public is basically unfamiliar with how scholars work. It is the same way good business-owners work, and much of the public is unfamiliar with that, too. It is exactly the opposite of how the vast majority of politicians work.
Smart scholars and good businesspeople make a provisional read of a situation. As new data accrues, they update their read of the situation. They are willing to change their view in light of new information.
This is so inimical to politics that as soon as a scientific or scholarly issue becomes relevant to politics, yahoo politicians and their supporters go on and on about how “You said this before, and NOW you are saying this other thing! Were you lying then, or are you lying NOW!!!????”
It’s gotten so bad that it is threatening to undercut communication among scholars. I know someone who was serving as an expert witness. On cross examination the attorney pulled out working papers they had posted on the web, earlier versions of papers they had published. Working papers are a common way scholars proceed to get feedback from others, and everyone knows the published version is the definitive version unless the published version is appreciably shorter — one thing some authors do is put all the details in the working paper, and the published shorter version points to the working paper. Which case it is is clear by how the published version refers to the working paper. But the attorney could not handle the idea of scholarly dialogue, and essentially insinuated the witness was lying because they had distributed a working paper and some of the things in the working paper did not match the things in the published version.
Really, do we think the world is better if people are not allowed to change their mind as they learn new things? That’s the world the politicalization of everything is giving us.
IAT
100% agree–one of my degrees is in a lab science, and so, as you may have gathered, my views are shaped by data. As an individual outside of the public eye, I have the luxury of allowing new data to shape my views on various topics.
Also, once the public has bought into a concept provided by an expert, it is very difficult for that expert to change that concept, even subtly, for fear of having their credibility destroyed.
I remember hearing a guy speak who got an outlier economic event correct in the 1970’s–like Roubini with this recent credit crisis. He noted that as long as he was “gloom and doom”, he continued to get speaking engagements. However, once the data changed, and his view on the outlook changed to be more positive, he stopped getting as many calls. There was incredible pressure on him to maintain his stance, even though the data was now pointing in a different direction.
Very mild here is No Cal as well. I don’t think record lows, but low/mid 70’s and sunny is much cooler than it usually is this time of year.
What Northern California are you talking about? It is regularly 50-60 degrees in SF. Twain said, “The coldest winter I ever had was a summer in San Francisco.” Are you talking about Novato? Chico?
IAT
Mid-Peninsula, Redwood City down to Mountain View…a bit hotter today, but not uncomfortable.
BTW- The coldest baseball game I ever attended was in July in the bleachers at Candlestick…worst location for a stadium ever…
AT&T (or whatever it is now called) is little better.
IAT
Much better–great ballpark, and much more easily accessed (with CalTrain terminus within a block or two). When I lived closer to the train station, (I’m now a whole mile farther away), I was able to walk to work, walk home, walk back to the train station, go to a ballgame, walk home. No car, no problem…not bad for suburban living…
We were talking about weather. Obviously other things differ. The weather is equally bad.
Sitting in the stands on a sunny summer day at Wrigley, cold beverage in hand — THAT’S baseball. Shivering in the 3rd inning, chattering teeth by the 7th, at AT&T Park in San Francisco– that’s something else. Torture maybe. Self-imposed torture. It doesn’t matter how quickly I can get there, nor what bars and other amenities might surround the park.
IAT
Oh, I beg to differ on this one. Have you been to both the Stick and the new stadium? Wind patterns are very different between the two ballparks. That makes all the difference in the world.
From the Wikipedia entry on Candlestick Park:
“It is indeed the wind and not the ambient air temperature that provides Candlestick’s famed chill. The Giants’ subsequent home, AT&T Park, is just one degree warmer, but is far less windy, creating a “warmer” (relatively speaking) effect.”
I’ve been to both. I disagree.
For those of you who wonder whether this is just a matter of taste, and who are not in the bay area, catch a game on TV sometime. As the night wears on you’ll see more and more leather jackets, then parkas, then gloves and hats — and I don’t mean baseball gloves. You’ll see people seeing their breath.
No, that’s not baseball. At Wrigley as the night wears on it doesn’t crash into the 50s with 40-degree windchills. Sorry, but this is one place where the bay area totally s*cks.
IAT
If you are talking about the windchill for a baseball game, you are already conceding my point, even if its “higher.”
IAT
If you are talking about the windchill for a baseball game, you are already conceding my point, even if its “higher.”
IAT
[Chuckles politely. Munches on popcorn.]
The last part got cut off. Sorry. I felt it was needed for this light banter.
IAT
I can’t disagree when comparing to other locales. But is you ask any long-time resident of SF, Pac Bell is WAY better than the Stick when it comes to comfort.
Still may not be as good as other parks around the country, but a big improvement.
I haven’t been to every stadium, so I can’t say. I’ve been to Baltimore’s old stadium, not the new one, in July. WOW, that was great weather. We then got cracked crab after. Saw Clemens pitch in one of his Cy Young years, I think it was 1985 or 1986.
And I’ve been to Wrigley and the old Comiskey. Again, great summer weather.
And, Milwaukee’s stadium, saw Nolan Ryan pitch when he was going for his 300th win (300? 250? Something like that). Again, nice and warm evening, short sleeve weather.
And, then . . . Candlestick. And AT&T. Given the above for comparison, well, let’s just say, I don’t do baseball games live around here.
But, others will have to pronounce whether the cold weather at summer baseball games is more common than I had thought — perhaps a manifestation of climate change?
— or not.
IAT
I think I’m still of an age where I can say that it’s likely there are more days in front of me than behind me. One thing I’d like to do is take in a game at all the (active) MLB baseball stadiums…perhaps I’ll start next year with a few close friends as an annual outing. This year, no good…too much going on in life and business.
IAT, where do you live? You noted “around here”…
I’m in the east bay but, unlike many, I hang out all over the bay area. I did the Golden Gate Bridge Anniversary celebration in the city. I’m up in Marin to work on projects and hang out after. I’m often down to Palo Alto to see friends and colleagues. I used to go dancing with friends at a blues club in Redwood City, but the club closed and I haven’t seen whether it re-opened. I’ve been down to Castro Street in Mountain View, sitting outside for drinks at Cascal. Recently had a picnic and dancing at a winery in Livermore. And so on.
There’s lots to do in the bay area, its got a lot in that regard. It has so much that I don’t miss sitting out in the stands on a warm summer night watching baseball. Warm summer night baseball games? In the bay area? Not in my experience.
IAT
I’m within a quick strike of Stanford, so about the only option I’d have for a game on a warm night is at Sunken Diamond in May/June if the weather cooperates. But currently have I young children, so my evenings are filled with other things currently. If you are ever in the PA area and would want to meet up, let me know…I work in Menlo Park.
“Hillary Clinton declares Afghanistan a ‘major non-Nato ally’ of US”
Palmy declares peace in the Middle East.
Does anyone here think of Afghanistan as a “country” as opposed to, say, a collection of tribes or maybe as a collection of clans?
Not me!
Drugs sure can have an effect on political allies…..We have NO guts to fight a drug war in Afgahnni
Or why haven’t we napalmed the poppy fields each year and just pay off the farmers like we do the American Indians?
If Drugs were the main issue, we would have left the Taliban in charge. THEY clamped down pretty hard, before we invaded and they decided to fund themselves partly with drug money.
Exactly Jim….so we really do want heroin to be freely available.
Speaking of which… Anyone notice the complete lack of coverage of the 2000th American death in Afghanistan? I remember the 1000th death milestone being reached. Every MSM news report had a countdown. They were almost jubilant when it hit 1000 - kinda like a telethon.
Of course - now we have “hope and change” in power. I also notice the complete lack of news reports of the homeless…
————————————
US death toll in Afghanistan surges past 2,000
AFPAFP – Thu, Jun 14, 2012
Smoke rises during a controlled explosion of Improvised Explosive Devices by US Marines at Forward Operating Base Jackson, also known as Sabit Khadam, in Sangin. The American death toll in the almost 11-year war in Afghanistan has surpassed 2,000 with the death of a Marine corporal killed in fighting with the Taliban, the Pentagon said.
US forces recorded their highest losses in 2010 when 499 died, compared with 414 in 2011.
And this will go on until:
1. We win, or
2. We leave.
IMO anyone who knows even a wee bit about Afghanistan should understand that #1 is very unlikely to happen.
It’s not just Afghanistan the US military doesn’t understand, it’s the nature of modern warfare:
‘The greatest intellectual challenge in Fourth Generation war—war against opponents that are not states—is how to fight it at the operational level. NATO in Afghanistan, like the Soviets three decades ago, has been unable to solve that riddle. But the Taliban appears to have done so.’
‘The Russian term, operational art, is a good one, because unlike tactics or strategy it is not a thing but a link. It is the art, not science, of using tactical events, battles and refusals to give battle, victories and sometimes also defeats (from the North Vietnamese perspective, the Tet offensive was a tactical defeat but a decisive operational victory) to strike as directly as possible at the enemy’s strategic center. Because it resorts to battle only when and where necessary, operational art is a great economizer of fighting strength—even a battle won eats up soldiers, fuel, equipment, and, most importantly, time.’
‘What passes for NATO’s strategy is to train sufficient Afghan forces to hold off the Taliban once we pull out. The Taliban’s response has been to have men in Afghan uniform— many of whom actually are Afghan government soldiers or police—turn their guns on their NATO advisers. That is a fatal blow against our strategy because it makes the training mission impossible. Behold operational art in Fourth Generation war.’
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/unfriendly-fire/
Has anyone noticed that the US military kills the most in Pakistan and Yemen, but most US casualties are in Afghanistan?
1000 was an order of magnitude milestone. 2000, not so much. 10,000 will be newsworthy.
I have to admit, I was particularly struck by the absurdity of this statement and the fanfare with which it was unveiled :-O
The whole spectre of student loans has been bugging me so I went and emailed a friend who knows a lot more about them.
Turns out that even fairly vanilla student loans like Sallie Mae accrue interest daily.
Ponder that. They acrue interest daily.
That’s the domain of the worst credit cards. Even the cherry picker who bought a $700,000 home on credit didn’t have that problem.
That means the interest rate on the loans is far higher than what is being stated.
The kids are being smoked and they haven’t a clue.
Then there are loans which accrue interest while they are still in school.
This is pure evil.
And good luck to any of this kids for buying houses. These debts are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. They will even garnish SS wages to pay back these loans!
Then there are loans which accrue interest while they are still in school.
This is pure evil.
You expect lenders to lend without a return?
Firstly, these loans are “special”. They are not only non-dischargeable but guaranteed by the federal government.
Unlike say, a car loan.
I don’t expect lenders to lend without a return but these guys have a pretty cozy deal.
“… these guys have a pretty cozy deal.”
So do the schools in that it’s the schools where this borrowed money eventually ends up.
Couple the financing with the percieved need - a perceived desperate need - for a college education and - presto - you have a racket going on for you.
Yeah, totally. The schools can jack up the price each year with impunity.
It’s going to end really badly for all concerned.
“The schools can jack up the price each year with impunity.”
Until people decide that it isn’t worth getting 100K into debt for a career as a barista or in retail. And I think we are getting there, judging by the number of my kid’s peers who are enrolling in Junior Colleges, and many of these kids come from well off families.
“… judging by the number of my kid’s peers who are enrolling in junior colleges …”
And there it is. The colleges have a lock because the perception is that one MUST have a degree in order to get a good job. And a junior college is the fist step in getting this degree.
After junior college comes another two years to get a bachelors degree. And if you can’t get a job with a bachelors degree then you need to go back to get a masters.
And if you don’t have the money at hand then you’ll need to borrow it.
“then you’ll need to borrow it”
With no limits or qualifications, hence skyrocketing tuition.
If I were a yute, I would learn a trade.
You forgot that 1/2 of the cost is currently funded by the taxpayer. This deal is quickly becoming and entitlement.
So, you don’t even know what an entitlement is, do you?
And entitlement is a government program that is automatically funded. Congress doesn’t have to appropriate the money since the funding isn’t part of the budget that is voted on.
The whole mess we just had about how to pay to extend the interest rates at 3.4% proves it isn’t an entitlement. Congress has to fund that money, or it wouldn’t even have come up.
Don’t worry…the taxpayers have there back.
Their
FPSS,
You just hit sfrenter for bringing up ConEd’s lockout — you asked, ” . . . this is [sic] private dispute. What’s it to us?”
I repeat your claim when it comes to student loans. It’s a private matter. Don’t want to deal with the interest, don’t take the loan. End of story.
IAT
PS — Anyone can play the game of demanding that everything they don’t want to talk about is “private.” People usually make that argument when a discussion of the facts will damage their neat little problematic perspective. Funny thing though, we do have laws on the books that are supposed to constrain theft. Not paying people for work they’ve already done is theft. The Cons at ConED should be arrested and thrown in jail with a Too Big To Pay bail for each executive, so they realize the implications of theft.
IAT
Except that student loans have a direct impact on housing and the ConEd story doesn’t.
There’s a massive difference.
The kids that have to pay the loans at gunpoint will not be buying houses. Think about it.
Really? Stealing money from people who’ve already worked for it won’t lower the chance they can make their payments? A war on unions won’t lower salaries across the board, making it tougher for people to afford housing?
Once you say that housing is connected to the rest of the economy, you have to allow discussion of other aspects of the economy for they may impinge on housing. You can’t confine issues to the financial sector alone. I thought we had already established (by the 2008 crash and subsequent Great Recession) that housing isn’t contained.
IAT
A war on unions won’t lower salaries across the board
There’s the rub.
A war on unions won’t lower salaries across the board
A war on PUBLIC unions WILL make housing much, much, much more affordable.
There’s the rub…
How?
IAT
Also, ConEd is private. Can one contain a war on public unions to ONLY public unions (assuming such a war was desirable, still a “fact” not in evidence)?
IAT
Faster…What do you think about repossessing the college degree in exchange for cancelling the debt?
It maybe a way out…Lawyers could turn in their JD and become paralegals at 1/2 and no debt….Medieval art history majors could still work at Starbucks
Employers could discriminate between those with a valid degree and a returned one.
“Employers could discriminate between those with a valid degree and a returned one.”
You still haven’t explained why you think any private employer would actually do this. I agree that the federal government probably would (since fed gov is on the hook for the forgiven loans) and some companies that do contracts with fed gov could be forced to. Why would any other employer care?
Character?
IAT
Self-interest?
Who pays the taxes the government is using to pay off the loan? Might small businesses care that they are employing someone who’s default directly increases the taxes the small business has to pay?
IAT
Once the people who have defaulted and turned in their degrees (remember, dj is offering this as a legitimate, sanctioned way of discharging the debt) offer to work for lower wages, then they will quickly get over their worries about character.
Self interest? This is a classic tragedy of the commons question. If your new employee defaulted and turned in his degree, you get the benefit that your new employee isn’t $100K in debt. You can pay him less and he still has the education that you wanted. And he won’t always be on the edge of a financial tragedy. You only have a tiny, miniscule portion of the responsibility to pay the taxes that cover that unpaid loan.
Exactly the same incentive as putting an extra sheep on the town commons.
Polly:
Would you have your job without a JD? I agree some will not care, some will care. Some jobs will still require you to have a valid degree to even apply.
But the other half is you would never be able to qualify for any Gov. backed loan (student or HOME) until you pay off the discharged one, that would put a big hurt on colleges, and your credit.
I think that would be a stiff penalty.
I work for the federal government. I have already conceded that the fed gov would probably require you be current on your loans. The government could also put some pressure on companies that have big contracts with them to do the same (though they would quickly create a subsidiary just to handle the fed contract and allow all other employees to be without degrees).
You have to have a valid JD to get admitted to the bar. Once that happens, you are an attorney and I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t turn in your JD after being admitted to all the bars you would ever want to join and that is even assuming you would have to have them to get admitted in the first place. My uncle is an attorney and he never stepped foot in a law school. Seriously Dj. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
It might be a better idea to make them dischargeable in bankruptcy after 15 years (or some other reasonable time period). Give the lenders and collectors a reason to work with debtors. In some cases, students have paid off more than the original loan and still owe more than they borrowed due to fees and interest.
I recall reading several years ago about a credit card case in Ohio (I think it was Discover) where the judge threw the case out because the debtor had paid almost twice what was borrowed and owed almost 3 times what was borrowed after attempting to pay it off over 7 years. The judge decided it was enough.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/oh-municipal-court/1105883.html
Maybe so ..but he passed without going to law school…how many can do that today to avoid student loans? I see nothing wrong with this. In fact I think its extraordinary for anyone to accomplish this.
But I would be offended if we just allowed them to discharged it in BK, just like we are all PO that homloaners are not taxed on loan forgiveness. And we renters have got Zero help from both administrations..
And what about millions who HAD good credit for years before the crash? Not much help in adjusting Fico scores to reflect that.
My uncle is an attorney and he never stepped foot in a law school. Seriously Dj. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
You can pay him less and he still has the education that you wanted. And he won’t always be on the edge of a financial tragedy.
Except you want him to be on the edge of a financial tragedy…makes him work harder and makes him more afraid to leave.
“But I would be offended if we just allowed them to discharged it in BK, just like we are all PO that homloaners are not taxed on loan forgiveness.”
There are other kinds of debt that can be discharged in bankruptcy, including mortgage debt and credit card debt. Credit card debt is unsecured. Why is that different than student loans?
Because your degree is a tangible item usually needed to secure employment.
Dont pay for a car it get repo’ed….so how do you repo a degree? That is really the question I am asking.
Now if you paid for the degree on a credit card well, you just got a free ride….
———-
Credit card debt is unsecured. Why is that different than student loans?
It’s a private matter. Don’t want to deal with the interest, don’t take the loan. End of story.
How can it be private when 1/2 of the cost is paid by the taxpayer?
“And good luck to any of this kids for buying houses.”
I guess you aren’t on board with the prospects for a future student loan debt jubilee?
Friday, Jun 29, 2012 09:35 AM MDT
Student anger boils over
The idea of a student debt strike is circulating among activists — could it take off?
By Natasha Lennard
…
A student debt strike campaign surfaced within the first few months of the Occupy movement’s swell but gained only moderate traction and did not lead to collective acts of default. Now, however, the idea of student debt activism, particularly in the form of debt refusal, is gaining ground again. Instead of petitioning lawmakers for debt forgiveness, organizing for collective debt refusal – a debt strike – would be a bold attempt to force debt abolition. Crystallized in a slogan, the thought is, “Can’t Pay, Won’t Pay,” and, more radically still, just “Won’t pay.”
“There have been repeated debt forgiveness movements. And all of these initiatives always fail,” explained Mirzoeff, who has advocated for debt refusal repeatedly on his popular Occupy 2012 blog.
…
Why don’t we just call this the “Expand the IRS Enforcement Division Movement” ?
There wouldn’t be any of these protests if there was a decent job market, where people were paid decent salaries
Instead, we have our pull themselves up by their bootstraps, self financed college grads competing against $10/day labor, whose education in many instances is paid for by their government. And high school grads competing against 20-to-a-household legal and illegals. With the profit from this going to the 1%/bankster class.
+1 fixer
RE: “The profit is going to the 1% bankster class.” Oh I think profits go to the investor / shareholder/pension fund class which includes many many more than 1% directly or indirectly. Maybe not your intention but I get the sense Oxide that somehow you think profits are a bad thing or that they should be secondary to providing nice well pay jobs.
Welcome to life. You borrow money - you are expected to pay it back.
Kinda like when college students see their fist paycheck and then start to understand the size and cost of all the socialist programs that sounded so kewl just a few short years ago…
Ponder that. They acrue interest daily.
Not the least bit shocking, FPSS.
EVERY loan out there at some rate X is exactly equivalent to some other loan at rate Y that accrues interest daily. It’s simple finance math.
Now, the fact that students are too ignorant to realize this, and have a sense of the actual rate that they are paying? That’s tragic.
But “evil”?
I agree that student loans are evil, but only due to the fact that they cannot be discharged in BK. That is evil—because it has the potential to lead to life-long unpayable debts, the modern-day equivalent of a debtors prison.
But let’s call them evil for the right reasons. Compounded daily is not it.
p.s. I assume you meant “compounded daily”, which is why I used it at the end. Every loan accrues interest daily; that just means they will compute a pay-off for you up through any given day, and tomorrow you will owe a bit more interest than today. The thing that really affects the effective rate is the compounding.
I had the same question…I often hear “accrue” as a substitute for “compounds”.
The ability to use ‘affect’ and ‘effect’ in the same sentence is amazing on this blog. Thank you.
A Looser Loser -
” I agree that student loans are evil, but only due to the fact that they cannot be discharged in BK.”
I heard on a talk radio show a while back that it was not always this way but it became standard to declare BK after graduating but before getting your first job just to stiff the lender - viola free education.
Talk shows. The fount of all that is wise and true.
IAT
PS — I think that talk show guest or host has their facts wrong.
IAT
I’m 100% sure that every loan that eeeeeevil Sallie Mae made had the interest clearly spelled out in the loan documents. If a college student - who is 18 years old and legally an adult - signed up for it, with the loan fully disclosed, why do you care?
” You expect lenders to lend without a return?”
I sincerely hope that was sarcasm.
Then there are loans which accrue interest while they are still in school.
This is pure evil.
I was responding to this statement by cat. It occurred to me that students spend many years in school. The debt can be discharged by death, why is it pure evil to expect a return?
FPSS is either incorrect or they changed the law in the new bill. I haven’t read the bill so I am not making an accusation.
The way GSL’s worked is that students would take out a loan. The government would pay the interest while the student was in school. When the student gets out of school they start making payments.
They may have changed this arrangement in the new bill. If so, thank the Republicans in Congress who seem focused on unwinding all cross-generational agreements.
The only problem with the GSL program as it was constructed was that it did not scale payments in relation to earnings immediately after college (by, for example, lengthening the payment period for people with low wages, canceling some of the debt for people who take critical jobs (e.g., teaching school in a flooded area). If they fixed the cookie-cutter required payment problem default rates would fall, and the system would be much sounder.
Those who believe schools are making out like bandits, there’s an easy fix for that, too. Tell schools that if a student has a GSL, all fees for that student are capped at a certain amount. If schools balk, just publish the list of schools where GSLs will not be provided.
My sense is that they didn’t fix those things (payment cookie-cutterness and tuition inflation), they “fixed” other things. Hence, perhaps, the problem.
IAT
I have been out of school long enough that I am not up to speed with current rules. Someone else may have to jump in. But I am under the impression that there a variety of “levels.” In some the government pays the interest while you are in school (perkins is one example). In some interest accrues from the instant you “get” the money but the rate is set by the government and they are also guaranteed. Both of these were disbursed directly to the school, though I always had to go sign the note at the bursars office. If the loans were more than the balance on my tuition, they would eventually send me a check. And I don’t think I ever had what are currently called private student loans, so I have no idea what happens with them, but I can’t imagine that they don’t accrue interest from the first day. They often require co-signers (so guessing they aren’t government guaranteed) but also can’t be discharged in bankruptcy, I think.
Someone who has more recent experience should chime in.
Some great thought gets posted by a few diamonds in the rough ….. but too late in the night. You’ll miss it if you’re not looking
—————————————————————————————
Comment by BetterRenter
2012-07-07 03:34:49
Oxide said: “Awaiting, I’m going to be blunt.”
Good luck with that line of thought, Oxide. You’ll get nowhere with it.
The “Oil City Plan” is just a rhetorical device. Few people want to do that. Such areas are pretty much confined to the Midwest, in which I live. The poster “Awaiting” can get a house here, easy, for $60K. We have pretty good medical facilities here. But she won’t do it. Because this is the “flyover”. Anyone willing to plop down $400K for a house, now, automatically considers Oil City to be an impossible option. If you’re paying $400K for housing, you’re on the coasts. With culture. And jobs. And diversity. And real government. Few people want to give all that up.
So Awaiting’s not going to do it. You’re wasting your breath.
My personal theory is that the housing bubble got so extreme on the coasts is because those coasties were used to expensive housing in the first place. Selling a maroon on 10x income housing, is a lot easier when housing around him was commonly 4-5x income. Awaiting is merely acting out that bias. $400K on a house is normal for her. And she looks around and sees all the things she probably likes, like culture, jobs, government, etc.
I used to live in New England for a time and so I can compare here and there. There’s just no comparison. Sure, I know there’s a life in the Midwest, but that’s invisible from New England, and one might say, impossible to conceive of. Hence the term “flyover”. About the only thing that New Englanders know about the middle of the country (i.e. anything “Westa Woosta”, up to the valleys of California) is that it’s a big barrier that has to be flown over at 500mph for many hours to “get anywhere”.
I don’t hold any of this against Awaiting. It’s cultural programming and no mere discussion will overcome that.
Hmm… I live in “flyover” and I have access to Symphony Orchestras, Museums, Broadway Musicals, etc. To be fair, in my neck of the woods there are no 60K houses, but you will find them 1 hour+ east of Denver on the plains, in places like Limon.
But she won’t do it. Because this is the “flyover”.
All I see from Awaiting is that she has X amount of cash pile (big), Y amount of income (small) and Z number of years to live (many). Mr. and Mrs. Awaiting’s cash pile is plenty big enough to establish a low-level life, and then maintain with a lucky ducky job; neither of them need a career. That’s an ideal candidate for Oil City.
Oil City is not a rhetorical device, at least not to the open-minded. Nor is it limited to the Midwest. If Awaiting is unable to move to flyover, or at least to semi-rural, because folks out there are not “good enough” for her, then that’s her choice, and hopefully we won’t have to read stories about her being stuck in her house with no money left over.
Actually, I plan to do an oil city in a east cost or west cost locale. A small condo - all I want - paid off might have overhead of $600 - $800 (taxes, utilities, condo / coop fee) per month. Very on a $20 per hour job.
I don’t think the Oil City plan allows for $20 per hour. That’s well above the median wage in this country. In fact, it’s almost double.
There is an alternative way of looking at the world.
If you have a well-filled mind, coupled with a penchant for independence. flyover is right attractive.
The primary benefit of a rigorous education is that you are never lonely. You always have something to think about. Being self-sufficient brings its own rewards - you never have unstructured days. There is always something meaningful to do.
So. Those who eschew flyover in favor of debt slavery, more power to you. Personally, I’m a numbers type. When the time comes that I’m no longer actually earning income, flyover here I come.
It ain’t gonna be the flyover with wannabe McMansions on quarter acre lots. I’m gittin’ me some acreage with a stream, a spring, a woodlot and a pasture. When the edifice crashes, y’all can stay in ‘civilization’, dialing for take out and home delivery. Because your time is too valuable to cook for yourselves, and all.
There’s too many people around here, smugly toiling on artificial constructs, thinking that they’re doing something of importance. It is political theater. It’s a self-importance bubble.
Me, I’m gittin’ me a pair of mules and a garden.
Last night I talked with my contact in the craning and rigging biz in DE/DC/MD market. He said;
“We’re just not flying any shop built housing units anymore. It’s dried up. Site built housing crews are working for nearly nothing and they’re eating everyones lunch(those of shop built housing suppliers). After the housing thing imploded, we were the only game in town after 2007.”
This is important as I see it. Trades(I use the term loosely as it relates to housing) will compete with anyone for the work. There are loads of guys out there who have made a career out of slapping houses together. They don’t know anything else and they’re all hungry.
You know what I am surprised at..all the mobile home makers going bust….skyline from 30’s to 4…they used to have almost $20 per share in cash maybe 2 more years of bleeding and they are gone
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=sky&ql=1
I’m not talking about mods or mobiles. These guys sell shop built sections, transport, rig and fly onto foundations they’ve built themselves. They own everything from site work to punch list. No different than a GC building field built stuff. It’s a good system and QA/QC is tighter than field build structures.
And now its a per job basis, my brother HVAC was laid off then rehired by the same company 3 months later, at a different location and it paid 30% less….because that’s what they bid to get it.
Pimp, how do I buy a ’shop built section’ ?
What do I Google to find these shops?
As a numbers and process control type, I WANT TO KNOW. I like the idea of process control in build.
For my flyover place, of course - if it happens not to have some kind of house already on it.
I like ahansen’s idea too. The first owner goes bust with the fences. The second owner goes bust with the grading, foundation and basement. I’ll be the third owner.
Sorry for the
“They dont know anything else……..”
Multiply that by about every Main Street job out there.
And besides, what would people retrain for?
Everyone and his brother is taking out student loans to retrain for “health care” around here. For the “shortage of healthcare workers” you have been hearing about for 20 years.
While we are discussing cutbacks and or elimination of Medicare/Medicaid/Employer provided health insurance.
As usual, when the economy cant support any more price increases, dont expect the insurers or drug manufacturers to take the hit. Cramdowns on the workforce will be SOP. Hope they get their student loans paid off first…….
It’s bad and you feel sorry for people Too bad the US is such an uncompetive place regulation and tax wise to do business.
BetterRenter
Thank you for elaberating my theory of “Flavors”.
I grew up in So Ca from age 4 on, and it’s changed for the worse. I feel fortunate to have had rich and unique experiences. From a night at the Hollywood Bowl, to watching sitcom tapings as a teen, to mild winters, I feel my life has been enriched. I hate the traffic, the of criminal invaders, and our state govt is insane.
We’re most likely moving away, but I feel fortunate my parents relocated from back east coast in the early 1960’s. Ca was fantastic back then. Opportunity waited their 4 children.
You just don’t buy a home, you buy a life experience. My husband is from the mid-west, amd came out to So Ca for his Engineering education and dream. He would never, ever live in fly-over land again.
Will keep you all in the loop where we go.
“Ca was fantastic back then.”
And it’s a shithole now.
It depends on where you live. I know a few people who live in places like Irvine, Laguna Niguel, Capistrano, Del Mar, La Jolla, etc., who think it’s paradise.
Santa Ana, Torrance, Garden Grove … not so much.
“It depends on where you live.”
I spent the weekend in Santa Monica back in 2002 and I thought it sucked. Apparently this is universally understood to be a nice area.
East side Torrance is seedy. West side is not so. 2 miles from the beach. This morning I walked to get coffee rather than give up my optimal streetside parking space. The temp in the 60s. A year ago this time on a weekend I would not do that walk - same distance - in New Tampa. Too humid.
Irvine is fine but to antiseptic and under the control of the Irvine Company. It is essentially a competing government to LA. Some people like that form of government called The Irvine Company because the rules establish a harmonious environment.
I might have to move over there in a few months and work there. But I’ll accept it since work is work.
Laguna Niguel, Del Mar, and La Jolla are great places. But temps there are warmer than the South Bay of Los Angeles. I like Manhattan Beach. Topping it off I prefer the central coast. If I had $millions, that is where I would put my dream home, ocean view, high up on a cliff.
The truly wealthy may have houses in California, but they are non-residents with homes in other states such as Nevada (Incline Village). They register to vote in those other states, pay utilities and property taxes in those states, and they return to those states for a period in which they sell stocks and do not get a California capital gain tax on said stocks. They also might own California municipal bonds (going really fast to junk status) and avoid the tax on income. They also own treasuries and precious metals. A person like that makes sure his total tax rate (federal and state combined) is well below 30%.
Taxation is theft.
As right of center as I am I would not call taxation theft. It’s a responsibility. I think anthing above 10% is theft. It took me years to figure out why the left hates religion so much. (I’m not keen on a lot it.) I think the main reason is that churchs typically ask only 10%. If God can get by on 10% shows how vile and greedy and unsatiable the government is. Besides exposing the governent the church’s 10% is another 10% spendthrift politician think they should get.
Feel free to double your tax as a gift to the federal government then. You have a checkbook right?
Or use a credit card.
You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at http://www.Pay.gov
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it’s a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:
Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
There you go. Please post an image copy of the check you write to the US Gov and send it to HBB. White out your name, routing number, and account number and let’s see you walk the walk in honor of your beloved govt.
There was no duty to pay taxes before 1913. Tens of millions of Americans would say 10% is robbery. Yet there you go loving government largess that we can easily do without and have a growth economy without.
Bill, which of these would you pay taxes for:
Meat inspections?
Food inspections?
Testing of drugs for their efficacy and safety?
Law enforcement?
Foster care?
Highways construction?
Highway repair?
Bridge maintenance?
Air traffic control?
Commercial building code enforcement?
Weather data collection and forecasting?
Earthquake retrofitting?
Border enforcement?
Toxic materials investigation?
The Centers for Disease Control?
If you would pay taxes for any of the above (because, for example, you realize that there is no way for a market-system to deliver the above because the incentives cannot be arranged to have it happen without government), then your quarrel isn’t with taxes per se, it is with how our taxes are used. That debate — what should our taxes be spent on — is a useful one. It is, however, one that many politicians refuse to have, as they hide behind a no taxes pledge. A no taxes pledge is the equivalent of a pro-anarchy pledge.
IAT
All of those are fine, I have a problem paying for social services given to Illegal immigrants, foreign aid, unnecessary wars, political favors, social justice, voter fraud and anything with the word community or worker in the title.
So, you should protest those things, not taxes themselves. If you were to cut taxes in half, what would get cut out of the budget (if anything) would be all the positives on the list you accept, and you’d be left with funding only going to all the things you despise. I say this based on the last two decades of how cuts have been implemented.
IAT
Time to bring up the link again for commie IAT:
Pay up or die:
http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance279.html
“foreign aid”
A lot of our foreign aid is really a subsidy to business, especially the military suppliers.
“commie IAT”
So anyone who advocates for the need for some government and some taxes to support it is a commie?
Would you do without courts?
Never mind. I read the article. Basically, he says the government has no place in society. Private enterprise can take care of everything.
Check out the Island of Hispanaola for the difference between good government and bad government. Tell me you would rather live in Haiti than the Dominican Republic.
Spread the word.
right on Combo!
This shithole of a state is still attracting high tech startups:
“Silicon Valley vs. Silicon Beach?”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48082442
Although the regulations and rules of nannyism are so much that a nerd island 12 miles off of San Francisco is in the works:
“A floating metropolis for startups”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48082442 - it is also envisioned as a libertarian society by its wealthy investor Peter Thiel.
As an introverted Harry Browne type of guy I think it would be more advantageous to just operate in the underground economy and not be a part of groups. Harry Browne called the trap the Groupthink trap. California’s so big and its government so bureaucratic that many educated professionals can still find ways to pay very little tax and cut their expenses.
I know other native Californians than myself who would never think of moving elsewhere and who do not see the official taxes and the expenses as an iron wall.
Nobody likes to uproot and leave. Most people are creatures of habits. Even long time prisoners would prefer prisons to outside world. 90% of modern lives revolve around 20/30 miles radius. It’s up to you how you fill your weekends. Sure natural beauties and weathers (Sun for me) make the weekends more enjoyable.
True. I think there are some wealthy people who love their state so much even though it has high taxes, they just rent in that state and file taxes and earn income in another state. The state they love would not know of the residency status.
Someone could, for instance, rent a $7,000 per month ocean view place but reside officially in Nevada, where they might return to once a month if at all. Five acres of property and a post office box at most. Only federal income taxes are paid in that situation.
A partner at a law firm that we use once said the he was thinking of moving out of California (living in the Bay Area)…his problem was that the other two places he would want to move were also in CA. He’s going no where.
His problem is that his income is earned in California. If he gets a W2, the W2 would say so. If he operates out of Nevada and his income is earned entirely in Nevada he could avoid the confiscatory California taxes.
The interesting question is this: Suppose someone is retired and an official Nevada resident. Now that individual is taking out distributions of his 401k which is ordinary income. That person is now renting in California but the landlord minds his own business. No landline phone number. Name probably not even on the utility bill (can be arranged with the landlord).
As Ms Grundy (the school marm in the Archie comics) would say: He should be paying the thieves in Sacramento the taxes on the 401k distributions prorated to the amount of time spend in Taxifornia. But who would know?
Congratulations, Bill. I see you are finally admitting that you are mostly and advocate of tax fraud. Keep that thought process going a bit. I think you will find that your father would be horrendously ashamed of you if he were still alive.
Ah, Miss Grundy took the bait.
The trouble with you Miss Grundy is that you assume you know all about me and who my dad was.
Tell me what year my dad passed away please. While you are at it, tell me what city my dad was born in and how long he lived with his parents.
Tell me the exact quote where I encouraged people to evade taxes.
I am sure if you had residences in ten states you would pay taxes in all ten of them until you have to get free cheese. Miss Grundy you talk the talk of honoring the big bloated government. You probably voted for my favorite Marxist president Obama while I voted to dismantle the state by voting for Ron Paul.
Note I used the term “probably.” I do not assume to know you, unlike you assume to know all about me.
Let’s get one thing straight. OBAMA IS NOT A MARXIST!
Geez. You sound like those crazy people on the street who rant about Nazi-Commie-Libertarians — they just dump all the labels they don’t like into one term, even though each term contradicts the others.
Leftists are very unhappy with Obama. He is governing from what passes for the center in this country, which, since 1980, has moved further and further right. Funny, during that time real wages have stagnated, and societal cohesion has frayed. Yet, some demand even more of this damaging cure.
Sadly, Obama has obliged. Health care, as you’ll see, despite a few bones of good policy, is mostly a giveaway to insurance companies. Leftists are NOT pleased.
IAT
Obama is a Marxist and so are the people surrounding him. His wall street and other corporate donors are just useful idiots, but necessary to provide funding under the current system.
Other than the label, do you know any of the tenets of Marxism?
IAT
Obama is a Marxist. No one but a Marxist would make “spreading the wealth around” his goal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need
That is Obamarx. Get a brain IAT and check the link.
Here’s one and it should be your number one slogan: “From each according to his ability to each according to his need.” - Karl Marx.
That is, the labor from a skilled surgeon is equal to the labor of a janitor and the pay is the same in your utopian world.
I see. You know the comicbook version of Marxism. So, by your logic:
Roosevelt was a Marxist.
Eisenhower was a Marxist.
Nixon was a Marxist (he proposed a guaranteed income for all citizens).
Reagan was a Marxist (he expanded social security).
Oh, and by the way, then Jesus was a Marxist.
I see why its so tough to make progress in the U.S. Many earnest people substitute slogans for thinking and then they don’t even get the slogans (and their meaning) right.
It appears hopeless.
Oh well.
IAT
So, who’s a Marxist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3HUDhe7jk&feature=related
LONGHAIRED RADICAL SOCIALIST JEW (lyrics)
Well, Jesus was a homeless lad
With an unwed mother and an absent dad
And I really don’t think he would have gotten that far
If Newt, Pat and Jesse had followed that star
So let’s all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
When Jesus taught the people he
Would never charge a tuition fee
He just took some fishes and some bread
And served up free school lunches instead
So let’s all sing out praises to
That long-haired radical socialist Jew
He healed the blind and made them see
He brought the lame to their feet
Rich and poor, any time, anywhere
Just pioneering that free health care
So let’s all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
Jesus hung with a low-life crowd
But those working stiffs sure did him proud
Some were murderers, thieves, and whores
But at least they didn’t do it as legislators
So let’s all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
Jesus lived in troubled times
the religious right was on the rise
Oh what could have saved him from his terrible fate?
Separation of church and state.
So let’s all sing out praises to
That longhaired radical socialist Jew
Sometimes I fall into deep despair
When I hear those hypocrites on the air
But every Sunday gives me hope
When pastor, deacon, priest, and pope
Are all singing out their praises to
Some longhaired radical socialist Jew.
They’re all singing out their praises to….
Some longhaired radical socialist Jew.
You just don’t buy a home, you buy a life experience.
I lived there, and unless I could afford to live in La Jolla or Laguna Niguel I would never go back. I think the whole “life experience” thing is highly overrated.
just don’t buy a home, you buy a life experience. My husband is from the mid-west, amd came out to So Ca for his Engineering education and dream. He would never, ever live in fly-over land again.
My mother grew up in Kansas. 50 years as a Manhattanite and she’d rather die than go back.
sfrenter
Kansas is where hubby is from.
He praises his solid KS education that prepared him well for life, but the rest he got away from. Drunk on Jebus is an understatement.
Exactly how I feel about Connecticut.
Awaiting,
Sorry to hear about the need to leave SoCal. Our family lived in Orange Co for a couple of years and we enjoyed it all.
If the hubby is looking for a new job I can offer some help as I work in AZ and NM. The southeastern corner of NM is a hotbed of activity with the petroleum industry and with the National Uranium Enrichment project going. Companies are begging for able bodied workers. Note that the area is probably the polar opposite of SoCal, but they have mild winters and lots of jobs.
http://www.urscorp.com/Projects/projView.php?s=837&sec=6&pn=4
URS? lmao.
Awaiting, I know who you feel, although my frame is entirely different since I grep up in what is now considered a rust-belt town.
I also here the same things from many native Floridians (that it was once awesome).
I have to steal a line from Kunstler; maybe it’s because we’ve created all these silly motoring spaces everywhere? Anybody I’ve heard say “it used to be great” lives in an area that’s been paved over and Starbucksified.
Kunstler also coined the word “starkitecture”.
He’s a wordmaster, an artist, an author, and a pretty cool guy. The guy is a thinker. Thanks for sharing “Starbucksified”, Muggy.
Did you read that Kunstler has cobalt poisoning from his hip replacement?
My dad has that too, but not as bad.
Sorry for the errors - emotional post.
It’s only a house, Awaiting. And you didn’t “lose” anything, you only got outbid in a stupid game.
See my post of last night and please don’t take this setback personally. You dodged a bullet.
The entire housing sales model is a mess rife with corruption. Look at the players;
Lying Realtors- Lie after lie after lie until a signed contract results in your 30 years of enslavement. These unprincipled, unethical monsters are among the lowest human life forms. The exceed even the narrowest definition of useless.
The MoneyChangers- Their corruption knows no bounds when it comes to incentivizing your own debt slavery. They are the true evil bastards of the universe.
Self Entitled Sellers- Deluded and entirely clueless about the world around them, they move about with their head firmly planted up their ass and their hand out, they believe they’re owed a living.
Appraisers- Bitches in the truest sense of the word. These cretins are pushed around like pieces on a chessboard as they take their orders from their lying realtor and moneychanger masters.
Media opinion spinmasters and their Proxies found in all outlets- These vile creatures are the syphlitic cousins of Lying Realtors in that they lie, lie and lie.. Their work begins with two envelopes. One is their script and the other has the cash.
Congressmen- These self-interest driven scabs are the epitome of selfishness. Their interests come first irrespective of subject matter. Much like the moneychangers, their evil is deep in wide in that they take a oath with one hand and accept bribes with the other. Their racket is lucrative in that they write the laws, pass the laws and their henchmen prosecutors and cops enforce the laws. Their most evil deed is that they work together to divide citizens and keep them arguing over mindless nonsense to keep enlarging their wallets.
These are the major players in the Housing Crime Syndicate.
Perfectly beautiful
Bravo (you almost brought tears to my eyes)
Indeed
:mrgreen: 
I would add buyers looking to retire on the appreciation (or at least be the next Donald Trump)…
Yeah, the seminar graduates and howmuchamonth buyers do screw things up for the rest.
Dat’s beautiful.
Sir, I am humbled by your compliment.
Pimp
Cyber-hug and Kudos. A job well done. So much truthiness expressed with humor.
lol
Hey you forgot potential buyers like me. I expect to buy place at 50% of current market value - just because that’s what I value the places to be worth.
Sellers are allowed to ask their price.
What you value them at is immaterial. It just happens that resale housing can be replaced with new housing at a fraction of the cost.
I can ask $65k for my 5 year old Duramax too…. but buyers will go buy a brand new one for $50k.
Markets are cool like that.
The Housing Bubble has definitely blossomed and died in my inlaws’ neighborhood. Yesterday I posted an example of what I call an “Accidental Dutch Auction”; today I another example, for one of the many homes with “For Sale” signs out front which I passed on the way down to Starbucks. I know what my inlaws paid for their home a decade or so ago; this one is bigger than theirs, and offered at a lower price than they paid.
As you pour over the details of this listing, see if you can answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Why wouldn’t a home in an upscale neighborhood sell for a price above $66/square foot?
2) Why doesn’t one of the all-cash foreign buyers come in and snap up all the nice homes like this one which are currently available at fire-sale prices? Come on investors — this is a steal!!!
Here is the home’s description:
983 Northridge Dr
Bountiful, UT 84010
For Sale: $315,000
Price cut: -$14,000(Jul 6)
Zestimate®: $358,600
Est. Mortgage:
$1,126/mo
Beds: 6
Baths: 3
Sqft: 4,762
PPSF: $315,000/4,762 = $66/square foot
Lot: 19,602 sq ft / 0.45 acres
Type: Single Family
Year built: 1985
Parking: –
Cooling: –
Heating: –
Fireplace: –
On Zillow: 46 days
MLS #: 1102454
Here are lows and highs from the 10-year history of Zestimates®:
Dec 2002 $299K
Nov 2007 $524K
July 2012 $359K
Price History
Date Description Price Change $/sqft Source
07/06/2012 Price change $315,000 -4.3% $66 RE/MAX METRO
06/14/2012 Price change $329,000 -5.7% $69 RE/MAX METRO
05/27/2012 Listed for sale $349,000 -4.4% $73 RE/MAX METRO
05/09/2011 Listing removed $364,900 – $76 Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Salt Lake - Sugar House
05/03/2011 Price change $364,900 4.3% $76 Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Salt Lake - Sugar House
02/12/2011 Price change $349,900 -12.5% $73 NRT Utah
09/26/2010 Listed for sale $399,900 – $83 NRT Utah
The seller is definitely chasing the market down on this Dutch auction sale:
09/26/2010 Listed for sale $399,900 – $83 NRT Utah
…
07/06/2012 Price change $315,000 -4.3% $66 RE/MAX METRO
It needs to go for 1998 prices - looks like that is around $260,000
“Why doesn’t one of the all-cash foreign buyers come in and snap up all the nice homes like this one which are currently available at fire-sale prices? Come on investors — this is a steal!!!”
Rent zestimate of $1,533 per month means at anywhere close to $315,000 it’s a terrible deal as an investment for cash flow (easily a sub-5% yield IF you can keep it rented in Bountiful, UT).
That’s a “someone buys it because they want to live in it” house at anywhere close to those prices. So, the questions are:
1. How many empty housing units are there in Bountiful or locations closer to SLC (ie. what kind of options are there for people who want to live in the area); and
2. How many in the buying pool can afford over $315k (and afford to heat a home that large in UT)?
I suspect there are plenty of opportunities to own closer to jobs for people who make enough to afford $315k.
BiLA was wondering about the current fascination with “zombies”.
Easy to explain……just substitute zombie with “ghetto/urban poor, after their welfare and food stamps have been cut off”.
Consider them training films for the NRA/Libertarian/Tea Party crowd.
“‘… ghetto/urban poor, after their welfare and food stamps have been cut off’”
(shudder) You don’t want to even think of doing that.
New Orleans post-Katrina was a nice preview of this
Many, many years ago a guy running for Congress came to my workplace and told us of his ideas concerning welfare, which boiled down to “cut if off”.
A question was asked: “How will these people get money to live?”
Answer: “They’ll have to go out and get a job.”
Question: “What if they are unemployable?”
Answer: “There are jobs out there if people want to work.”
Question: “What if they don’t know how to work?”
Answer: “They’ll have to learn.”
IMO this guy did not have a clue.
That’s the funny thing about the welfare debate. Some of the strongest advocates of cutting off welfare will be some of the first to pay the price of cutting off welfare.
IAT
“There are jobs out there if people want to work”
Most of which pay effectively $1 or 2 an hour, after you subtract transportation costs.
Middle class America has a lot more in common with the urban poor than they do the 1%ers……..or even the 10%ers. The sooner people realize that, the better off they will be.
I agree with the guy completely. Cut them off. I don’t say that to be mean. See below posts about life before welfare. I think the same way about Obamacare. Some 70 year who gets cut off health care because they have adult onset diabetes and no savings. They still have lived long than most people in history. I feel sorry for them but why is it taxpayers’ job to provide for them? I might even donate to someone individually or to a charity. But I want to pick who gets help. Not blanket help for everyone on matter how irresponsible.
“But I want to pick who gets help.”
Aww, you’re such a sweetheart. Look at you, all lovey like that.
Amazing how the country survived without welfare for 150 some odd years.
Of course we survived. And mankind survived without welfare for thousands to millions of years, depending on your religious views.
But the poor were much poorer then.
“But the poor were much poorer then.”
And because they were much poorer thousands of them, uh, sort of died.
And because they were much poorer thousands of them, uh, sort of died.
Precisely.
And even those that didn’t die lived a fairly miserable existence.
That’s what I meant to imply, but I may have been a bit too subtle…
The irony is that many still live a miserable existence but because they don’t die from this miserable existence they get to live longer and hence they get to be miserable longer.
Not true. We’ve had corporate welfare since the beginning of the republic.
IAT
By “Not true” I was referring to the claim that we didn’t have welfare for 150 years.
IAT
No need to ever be nasty, cruel, spiteful,inhuman, fingerprint, drug test or just cut off welfare and FS…..
Instead just make it a requirement to sit in class 25 hours a week and learn to read, write and speak ENGLISH, 1/2 will quit the first month.
But what will they do the second month?
IAT
… crickets …
IAT:
Well maybe they will go back and listen to Malcolm X about black self reliance..
He had a Radical idea…learn to speak English and Math, Science he wasn’t about being a stupid 8th grade dropout ghetto rappah.
Most people on welfare are white.
IAT
Being robbed by an English speaker vs. a Spanish speaker is a distinction without a difference, IMO.
It’s why an ethnically homogeneous wealthy country is willing to part with so much income for the welfare state.
It’s a somewhat less-than-appealing facet of reality, but absolutely a facet of reality which cannot be ignored.
It’s this facet of reality - empathy with that one’s own ethnic group - which makes me wonder about the endgame in the Europe debt crisis. The Germans (and other countries) don’t want to be bankrolling the high-life for others, even as they live under slightly more austere terms.
Nothing wrong with drug testing. Inhuman, nasty, spiteful and cruel is forcing taxpayers to support addicts.
BiLA was wondering about the current fascination with “zombies”.
Easy to explain……just substitute zombie with “ghetto/urban poor, after their welfare and food stamps have been cut off”.
Consider them training films for the NRA/Libertarian/Tea Party crowd.
I saw his comment too late to be worth posting a reply originally, but I did think about explaining the whole code word thing to him.
Speaking of life experiences and things you can’t do elsewhere, I’m off to MoMA for a film double bill.
Mizoguchi’s Saikaku Ichidai Onna (Life of Oharu) and Fellini’s The Young and the Passionate.
Bask in the glory of air-conditioning and great films assuming of course that the ConEd thugs don’t destroy the afternoon.
It is STILL Bush’s fault…
Dismal hiring shows economy stuck in low gear
Reuters | Jul 6, 201 | Jason Lange
(Reuters) - U.S. employers hired at a dismal pace in June, raising pressure on the Federal Reserve to do more to boost the economy and dealing another setback to President Barack Obama’s reelection bid.
The Labor Department said on Friday that non-farm payrolls grew by just 80,000 jobs in June, the third straight month below 100,000.
It’s not Bush’s fault says former Bill Clinton Labor Sec., Robert Reich.
“In Ohio yesterday, Obama reiterated that he had inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. That’s true. But the excuse is wearing thin. It’s his economy now, and most voters don’t care what he inherited.”
“In Ohio yesterday, Obama reiterated…”
Why doesn’t Uncle Tom just man up? Wall street owns his a$$ 100%.
“..Labor Sec., Robert Reich.”
F that little dwarf. Put him in a Disney show where his talents would better serve humanity.
It’s not his fault that he’s that short. Give the guy a break, okay?
Glad you recognize that it is still Bush’s fault and even openly admit it. That’s very big of you.
This week I have been vacationing on the WA coast. It was almost impossible to find a rental. We decided to come out kind of last minute and everything was taken. I found one place that had a cancellation. Kind of a shack, but right on the beach, awesome views so the fact the house hasn’t been updated since sometime around 1983 can be forgiven.
If there’s a recession/depression going on in Seattle/Portland - which is where the majority of the vacationers are from - you could have fooled me this week.
As for real estate here, you can buy a house on the other side of the street from the beach for $100-150K. On the beach, $200-250K. Those are the 2/3 bedrooms, 1200 sq ft. Plenty for sale in the $500-600K range as well. Tons for sale, almost all foreclosures. Houses that are going for $200K were sold in the $400K range in 2004/2005. This is the Ocean Shores, Pacific Beach, Moclips area which is the cheaper part of the WA/OR coast. Go down to Long Beach, WA and into OR and the real estate gets significantly pricier.
I might check a few out today, just to see how they are inside. I know it’s lunacy on the HBB, but $200K for a house on the beach….interesting.
“… but $200K for a house on the beach …, interesting.”
And this is - where? - WA?
(Location, location, location.)
Wouldn’t be my first place to go to the beach. But it’s an easy drive from my house.
I could get used to seeing this every night during the summer
http://www.moclipsbeachrentals.com/properties/images/moclips_beach_sunset2.jpg
After many years of negotiating salaries with the 1% types, I’ve discovered one thing.
With 95% of them, there is NO negotiation. The only way to get a pay raise is to quit and go somewhere else. Out here in BFE, that might easily mean a move of 1000 miles or more. Not very many people are going to do that, unless the pay raise is significant.
Im getting a good chuckle this week. Boss sold his house in TN, is looking for a local rental… He’s finding out what I already know, and why I commute 70 miles each way. Its cheaper to commute 70 miles than it is to find a decent rental that isnt in a high crime zone.
“With 95% of them, there is NO negotiation. The only way to get a pay raise is to quit and go somewhere else.”
And this is a problem because….
“And this is a problem because….”
Because historically people get to a point where they can’t handle any more abuse, and then starting killing people.
You’ll realize it’s a problem when it’s pitchfork time, but then it will be too late, which is why it’s important to talk with “labor,” instead of saying things like, “get a job” and, “work harder.”
At some point, the work becomes violently overthrowing your oppressor — and being that corporations are now people, they too qualify as oppressors.
But 70 miles inst that bad if you have only 3 traffic lights between home and work ………
Two hours a day in the car isn’t bad???
Yuck.
2 hours a day in bumper to bumper traffic I would never ever do. but 70 miles no traffic no lights all highway…is doable..1 good cd each way and it goes fast
I agree. I watched my father commute for an hour each way to San Francisco for about 40 years, and swore I’d never do it. My commute is ~5-10 minutes, my wife’s is ~30-40 minutes (depending on traffic). While it was tempting to move to a place that is 20 minutes for each, there is tremendous benefit in one of us being able to be home within 10 minutes.
It’s nice to be able to cook your kids breakfast, and still be in the office by 8:15.
1% types don’t have anything to do with back office support functions such as recriuting and HR. But must not miss a chance to swipe at nasty evil “rich” people.
As a 1%er (albeit at the lower end of that spectrum) I feel like I need to defend us from the claim that we “don’t have anything to do with back office support functions such as recriuting and HR.” For my groups no raise goes through without my approval and for the most part because of the fear in the industry most employees are perfectly happy just having jobs, so when we tell them there will be no raises this year and we are eliminating their 401k match nobody complains. Obviously there are top talent that need special handling, but we try our best to not let those people know that.
http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/GSE-Debates-Show-How-Little-We-Learned-1050666-1.html?BCnopagination=1
SHOUT
Otis Day and The Knights from Animal House
Well…………………I feel all right-
You know you make me want to (SHOUT)
Throw my hands back and (SHOUT)
Throw my head back and (SHOUT)
Kick my heels up and (SHOUT)-Come on now
Don’t forget to pay your bills
Don’t forget to pay-ay-ay-ay-ay (PAY YOUR BILLS)
Say it right now baby (SAY YOU WILL)
Come On-Come On (SAY YOU WILL)
Say it right heeeere-Come on y’all
(SAY) Say that you won`t live free (SAY) Your not a Deadbeat
(SAY) Say that you won`t be (SAY) You spent the money (SAY YOU DID)- Come on now (SAY YOU DID)-(x4)
I still remember, when your condo was 9 years old, yeah, yeah
You refied to the peak but the bottom felt so cold, yeah-yeah
And now that you’ve grown up , I want to let you know yeah-yeah
You want to live free-You need to let it go-
I want you to know, I said I want you to now right now
You’ve been a Deadbeat buddy, No one to blame but yourself, hey-hey
And if you ever live free, I don’t want nobody else no-no
I said I want you to know, I said I want you to know right now
You know you`d make me want to (SHOUT)
Yeah, yeah-Yeah, yeah, yeah
Come on now, Come on now
Oh all right, Oh all right
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah (x4)
All-All right (x4)
Now wait a minute- I feel a~l~l~l~l~l~l~l right-
Now that You’ve got a rent payment- I feel a~l~l~l~l~l~l~l right-
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah (x4)
Every time I think about you, And how you lived for free
You know it makes me want to (SHOUT)
Throw my hands back and (SHOUT)
Throw my head back and (SHOUT)
Kick my heels up and (SHOUT)
Come on now, Come on now
Hey-ey easy, Hey-ey easy
A little bit softer now etc.
A little bit louder now etc.
Shout now-jump up and shout now
Everybody out now- throw the Deadbeats out
out, out, out, Deadbeats, out, out, out Deadbeats out, out, out
Let’s see.
Vastly raise taxes - check
Vastly increase government regulations - check
Vastly increase the size and scope of government - check
Insanely increase the debt of the US government - check
Encouraged dependency through food stamps and disability - check
Hey - why isn’t anyone hiring????
————————————-
Nearly A Third Of Private Sector Jobs Added Were Temporary
Business Insider | July 6, 2012 | Brett LoGiurato
The private sector added just 84,000 jobs in June, a big miss from some projections that had it topping 100,000 for the month. More than 25,000 of those jobs came in temporary “help services” positions.
Overall, private-sector hiring is down both sequentially and from the year-ago period. Last month, the private sector added 105,000 positions, including revisions upward this month. And in June 2011, the private sector added 102,000 jobs.
The staggering temporary hiring represents both good and bad in the report. On one hand, the temporary health services industry added almost 33,000 more jobs compared with June 2011. It’s also a nearly 7,000 month-over-month increase.
But the fact that nearly a third of the total jobs added were temporary means that they might not become permanent. For comparison’s sake, 17.7 percent of the new private-sector jobs in May were of a temporary nature. The estimate for June would make it so 31.5 percent of jobs added were temporary.
Nobody is hiring because there is no demand.
Why would you misrepresent this fact Goonman?
http://www.theburningplatform.com/
Scroll down and look at the income distribution bar chart. Over half the US population earn $25k/yr or less.
How are there any housing sales at all with a statistic like this?
(you all know the answer… just being Captain Obvious here)