The Housing Bubble

Thank you. It drives me crazy when people put “an” before everything that starts with an “h” and then look down on anyone who doesn’t like they’re hicks or something.

I’d settle for equal under the law. I thought that’s what we had, (yeah, yeah, I know, in theory not always in practice)

Palmy — I’m with you, bro’. Leave it to the gubmint to take a great concept (equal protection) and turn it back into what it was meant to end (discrimination).

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

You got a problem with that, comrade?

1. I think there’s a happy medium between screwing your customers and going out of business…might require better regulation to get there, though. At any rate I don’t think it makes sense to tell people who don’t want an insurance-based system that they should start their own insurance company.

2. I think we need to get away from insurance (if we must stay with a for-profit insurance based system) covering things that are sure to happen. It’s inefficient. Let’s insure against the unlikely and unexpected and pay cash for the rest.

“I think we need to get away from insurance (if we must stay with a for-profit insurance based system) covering things that are sure to happen. It’s inefficient.”

It’s not even insurance, but rather a transfer payment, kind of like welfare.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Professor Sloth.

large erosion of quality.

Funny how those countries with universal coverage have longer life expectancies than we do. And NONE of them seem to want to return to our style system.

“free shit for everyone”

Straw man alert!

OK, how about “free shit for indigents” then?

“free shit for indigents”

I’m going to guess that you get your health care coverage from what you perceive is a secure, reliable (read: non-free market) provider. If you were buying health insurance for your family from the ‘free market’, you would know how expensive it is, and you might even know that they can drop you for the slightest reason if you suddenly show great need for that coverage.

Wifey got a job with the state? Or the public schools?

“…you would know how expensive it is,…”

Dude — I can read my pay stub…

I also have visited a health care provider about four times over the past seven years, so at least some of those costly insurance premiums I pay, not to mention what portion of my tax dollars subsidize the medical industrial complex, are paying for other people’s health care.

Like in a communist country…

portion of my tax dollars subsidize the medical industrial complex, are paying for other people’s health care.

Under Obama/Romney’s plan, you won’t be paying for deadbeats anymore, so you should pay less. Get it?

Or like insurance. Spreading risk is the very definition of insurance. If you only paid for your own healthcare in years in which you weren’t particularly sick, it wouldn’t be insurance.

“Spreading risk is the very definition of insurance. If you only paid for your own healthcare in years in which you weren’t particularly sick, it wouldn’t be insurance.”

I suspect if the government does it, it will somehow end up looking more like a transfer program than insurance, like ‘crop insurance’ or Old Age, Survivors and Disability ‘Insurance,’ or too-big-to-fail bailout ‘insurance,’ for instance.

You have a point; there is no guarantee the surgery would have been successful in the U.S. or anywhere else, given the severity of the injury.

There is no guarantee you can get away from a gator with both arms either.

Florida Teen Sacrifices Arm to Gator and Jokes Through Pain

By CHRISTINA NG (@ChristinaNg27)
July 10, 2012

A Florida teenager who came face-to-snout with a 10-foot alligator made a split-second choice that likely saved his life, but cost him his arm.

Kaleb Langdale, 17, really showed his courage when he smiled and joked through the pain and loss of his right arm.

Langdale was swimming with his friends in the Caloosahatchee River in Moore Haven, Fla., on Monday when temperatures were hitting triple digits.

“He was swimming with some friends in the river, which they do frequently,” Langdale’s aunt LaDawn Hayes told ABCNews.com. “It’s a very rural community with nowhere in the town for these kids to go. There’s no city pool, so this is the only choice on 100 degree day.”

While the boys were swimming, one friend yelled, “There’s a gator!”

“Kaleb turned around to look [at his friend] and turned back and there was a gator a few feet away coming straight at him,” Hayes said. The alligator was later measured at about 10 feet.

“The gator took the arm. He felt the bones break, felt everything kind of go and made a choice at that point that it was either his arm or his life,” Hayes said. “So he took his feet and pushed as hard as he could push until his arm broke free.”

Langdale swam for the riverbank opposite where his friends were standing, since it was closer, and climbed out on his own. He yelled to his friends that he had lost his arm and told them to call for help.

“He pinched his arm between his legs and waited for paramedics to get there,” Hayes said. “By the time his mom got there, the paramedics just stopped her and said, ‘He’s fine. He’s joking. He’s talking and he’s a trouper, but he’s lost part of his arm.’”

Langdale had lost the lower half of his right arm, below the elbow.

While Langdale was being taken care of in the hospital, authorities managed to track down the alligator.

“We found the alligator that was responsible,” Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission spokesman Jorge Pino told the Associated Press. “We were able to kill the alligator and dissect the alligator, remove the arm and transport the arm to the hospital to see if the doctors could reattach the limb.”

But by the time the arm got to the hospital, too much time had passed to save it, Hayes said. Langdale underwent surgery to close up his wounds, but not before asking Hayes to snap a photo of him in the trauma unit and post it on Facebook.

“You’re on your pain meds, I’m not going to do that,” Hayes told him. But he insisted, telling her, “Let everyone know I’m okay and I can still drive my airboat. Let them know it was my right arm and not my left.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-teen-loses-arm-alligator-smiles-jokes-pain/story?id=16747543 - -

Measton is not exaggerating.

There are companies right now lobbying HARD to make a lot of our municipal water supply a for-profit-operation.

Enron was one. They were working through a shell company called Azurix. Google it.

There are a lot of municipal water supplies that are already semi-for-profit. MUD districts in Texas come to mind, along with serious conflict of interest problems and outright illegal resource management deals being made.

It doesn’t matter what the product is that Government would provide or regulate ,if it isn’t afforable to the majority population ,than it isn’t affordable .If the system is corrupt ,than it isn’t pure clean water .

Why was the Health Care act called the Affordable Health Care Act ? Some say that our Health care system cost 50% more than other Countries ,without better results .

The real truth is that our Health Care system is as corrupt
as murkey and infested with the plauge water would be .

It’s just starting to come out how the Pharma industry bribed the Doctors to push their dangerous drugs . Does anybody even question the merits of giving drugs to treat diaease ,and than give another drug to treat the side effects created by the original drug ?

Does anybody think that the Pharma business is regulated in the true sense of the word . The FDA allows Pharma to conduct their own tests and just submit them to FDA for review . A true objective regulatory agency would conduct their own tests or oversee the testing of the drugs . As a result of this piss-poor regulation on the drug industry we have millions die because dagerous drugs are put on the market .and than taken off the market every 10 years after its discovered that they were shit and damaged and killed people ,but this is after billions are made on the faulty product .

The real truth is when the cash cow of Medicare came into existence , along with employer paid insurance ,it set the stage for profit making industries to get in on that money ,it evolved the point we had a system corrupted by faulty medicine and bribed scientist and Doctors ,just like the financial systems were .

What health care system would endorse spending 100 thousand to drug companies for chemo to simply extend the life of a a stage 5 cancer victim for 5 months ( when they would likely live that timespan anyway or longer absent the chemo drug ) .

What health care system would keep pushing Statin drugs at lower and lower ages by faulty numbers on what a healthy count should be ,while they know by scientific evidence that Statins deplete the Co-enzyme Q-10 supply in the liver ,sitting the stage for heart failure after long term use .

Does anyone wonder why vaccines are pushed today ? The drug Industry doesn’t even have to pay for damage from vaccines because they managed to put that cost on the Government . But the government isn’t thrilled about further investigation into Whistleblower scientists who claim that a big drug company they worked for were
watering down vaccines as a cost saving measure along with being fraudulent about their test results .

I have gone back and looked at Senate hearings from years ago when Doctors/scientists were endorcing drugs to get approval for Medicare funding.So the Drug industry flourished to the point where its one of the biggest profit and biggest price fixing Monopolies in the World .

With the exception of antibiotics to kill infections ,emergency care and fixing broken bones ,the drug approach to mask symptoms ,but never cure the disease ,will be seen 50 years from now as predator medicine that was faulty science for profit medicine .

Having good water and a clean environment and good wholesome food and sleep does more for health and the fighting of infectious disease than any other factor apparently .

So ,my point is that the lawmakers didn’t even address the flaws and corruptions in the Health Care system with the Health Care Bill ,but rather they just addressed how to keep a corruped system going and insure that the public will pay for it .

It’s no different than the way the lawmakers handled the Financial crisis because of who their masters are . The only difference with health care is that the profiteers don’t mind killing people for profit ,where in financial markets they just take your money ( which might result in death if you starve to death however ) Currently health care preventable deaths beat out car accidents as leading causes of death in the United State .

As with the financial markets it will be hard for people to believe that the Masters of the Universe could be this evil . While I am not knocking anything that does consitute
good medicine and life saving medicine,I just ask that you ask yourself why would giving unnatural chemicals that mask symptoms ,but never cure the disease, and sets the stage for greater health problems and greater side effects , be considered viable medicine ?

We were just brainwashed into thinking that this was good medicine . Take a pill for anything that comes up and continue with faulty eating and faulty lifestyles ,and continue to eat crap food that another monopoly food industry crams down our throats ,along with dangerous GMO foods and pestisides . We have strayed to far from nature really ,and with financial systems they are just aberrated casinos.

Does anybody even question the merits of giving drugs to treat disease ,and than give another drug to treat the side effects created by the original drug ?

Slim raises hand: I do! I do!

You might want to ask HIV-AIDS survivors that question.
Or children with pediatric leukemia.
Or folks with non-Hodgkins lymphoma….

Just sayin’.

‘never happens here’

Being in the hospital for 6 months with a broken leg?

While she wasn’t in the hospital for 6 months, my mom did have serious complications for 6 months after having her broken leg operated on, such as infection and a bad first bone set.

Having a nurse come by the house once a week was cheaper than the hospital.

Just last year.

Then there was my mom. She hit the bad luck lottery back on February 13th. Tripped on ice and fell down. Hurt hip and broken wrist.

She walked around on the hip for almost two weeks and it hurt like crazy. Then she tripped over a curb as she was going back into the hospital for surgery on the wrist.

Well, that finally got their attention. MRI time. They diagnosed the hip as broken.

Mom thinks that it broke in the original fall. And she used the word “negligent” to describe how the hospital initially dealt with the hip.

Howie, the kicker is that nobody really knows what the price was for that surgery. There’s a price for Medicare. There’s a price for people with your level of insurance. There’s a price for people paying cash. And there’s a price for indigents (largely, zero). None of those prices match each other.

I betcha that under a cash-only system, what you paid from your deductibles is what the sole price would be for all cash payers. So my theory is that today’s insured people are merely at the payment level that the system would have delivered health care in the first place for, for cash.

Ben, you’re distracting from the issue. Your original point was that Costa Rican health care was inferior because somebody allegedly “botched” treating broken leg — even though you have absolutely ZERO medical information about how serious or not serious the injury was.

Then when confronted with a story that they can botch a treatment right here in the USA, you moved the goalpost to how much it cost.

P-bear — so you haven’t needed medical care in a while. Well good for you. If you’re so lucky, why don’t you drop the insurance, pay Obama’s little emergency room “tax” — what is it, 50 bucks a month — and take your chances?

Of course, you know that the Republicanshave an answer to that. The UN is a left wing, anti-American operation.

This isn’t rocket science, pal…

No, it’s relying on anecdotal evidence while ignoring statistical evidence, which is anything but rocket science, or any other science for that matter.

OK, Professor Sloth, why don’t you produce the high fallutin’ statistical evidence for how the new health care law creates gold out of water for all who read and post here to behold, then…

The statistical evidence has been posted here countless times. Most western, and many non-western developed countries, have longer life expectancies than we do. They spend less overall on health care, they have universal coverage with no one going broke because they or their kid has cancer, and they have rates of satisfaction with their systems that are as high or higher than ours.

It is reasonable to assume we will see similar results as we slog towards universal health care coverage. It is unreasonable to assume that somehow we will see different results from the rest of the world.

new health care law creates gold out of water

Was there a 2for1 special on straw men today?

We currently have the opposite problem, lots of doctors, but patients (who are steadily being herded into high deductible plans) who can’t afford to see them and who consequently don’t. If Medicare was cancelled my doctor would probably go out of business, as everytime I’ve been to see him the past few years I’ve usually been to only non senior in the waiting room (which is a lot emptier than it used to be).

I wonder how many kids are not getting immunized because it’s unaffordable for their working class but uninsured parents?

We currently have the opposite problem, lots of doctors, but patients (who are steadily being herded into high deductible plans) who can’t afford to see them and who consequently don’t.

Story of my life.

Fortunately, my health has been good. So far.

I can’t believe your argumenat against everyone having access to affordable health insurance is that all those new people who feel like they can go to a doctor are going to make it harder for you to get to see your doctor.

‘everyone having access to affordable health insurance’

This is kinda the problem that got lost in the politics isn’t it? Many of us don’t have health insurance because it is too expensive. And I don’t see how demanding even more people buy health insurance is going to make it cheaper.

The law will cap premium rates. Millions of people are getting rebate checks RIGHT NOW from their insurance companies from being overcharged.

People who can’t afford medical insurance will be given tax breaks or outright subsidized, depending circumstances.

Pretty much nobody will actually ever have to pay the penalty tax unless they want to. Ex: Official guidelines say I can afford insurance, but in reality it’s cheaper for me to pay the penalty tax than yearly insurance premiums.

Health is not only a right, it’s a very serious national strategic asset. Large scale mass death pandemics haven’t just magically gone away.

‘The law will cap premium rates’

Well who knew that all the govt had to do was cap something and all would be fixed? Of course, noting could go wrong with this approach, could it? Just promise me something; if unintended consequences blow up on us down the road, don’t duck and weave out of it OK?

Some of us think the primary cause of health care cost going up year after year is health insurance. So you won, and we’re gonna try your solution, but please stand up and take the blame if it doesn’t work.

‘a very serious national strategic asset…Large scale mass death pandemics’

Here you sound like the neo-cons trying to scare people and justify whatever they do.

Nothing is perfect, but we flat out ALREADY have the worst health care system in all the 1st world, right now.

Scare tactics? Scare tactics usually involve building up a threat that rarely happens. Pandemics happen with historical regularity.

“Here you sound like the neo-cons trying to scare people and justify whatever they do.”

It works on people of middling and lower intelligence, so it’s a powerful tactic to manipulate democracy.

‘we flat out ALREADY have the worst health care system in all the 1st world’

Yeah, well, give it a couple of years. It might get worse and if so, it’s on you.

‘Pandemics happen with historical regularity’

And you are going to stop this how? Really, come on and explain how you or anybody is going to accomplish this.

“And they are going to stop this how?”

By vaccination? See anybody with polio lately?
What about swine flu and bird flu? Somebody funded the vaccinations for that. I wonder who did that. Hint: It wasn’t Goldman Sachs.

Speaking of swine flu: a much stronger and more deadly strain of the swine flu popped up in Mexico City. Somebody shut down Mexico City to contain it. That’s how you stop it.

And I don’t see how demanding even more people buy health insurance is going to make it cheaper.

The law of large numbers reduces the cost of insurance by decreasing variance. So a single payer system would be able to take advantage of statistics to require lower reserves per patient.

On the other hand, having multiple insurance companies that actually compete could work as well. Unfortunately, we don’t have a competitive market for insurance. First and foremost, insurance companies are specifically exempt from anti-trust laws. Second, most people don’t actually choose their insurance, it’s whatever their employer picked or they do without.

Honestly, I would’ve been happy if the healthcare reforms went the single payer route or if they opened the door for actual competition between insurance companies. Of course, they did neither.

‘See anybody with polio lately?’

‘C.I.A. Vaccine Ruse May Have Harmed Pakistan’s War on Polio
By THE NEW YORK TIMES’

I wasn’t the one who brought up ‘mass pandemics’. I did say it is beside the topic and probably meant to add some shock value. To what end? I have no idea.

‘I wonder who did that. Hint: It wasn’t Goldman Sachs’

This is getting silly. ‘The banksters! the banksters! We bailed them out so I want (insert desired goal/policy here).’

Did vaccines just pop up with Obama care? I don’t follow the reasoning, unless it’s like, ‘you wouldn’t even have the internet if it wasn’t for uncle sugar.’

Stop a pandemic? Generally, you can’t. What a silly question. But you CAN lessen the effects, but only if everyone gets the required medical attention. People railed against today’s common vaccinations. You should the political cartoons of the day. (google)

The 1st line of defense is a healthy population. And yes, I think people should take better care of themselves in the first place, but that has no relationship to disease mutation.

On me? I’m one of those people who can’t afford health insurance. One of 50 MILLION. So yes, you can say I’m slightly biased. Just a little bit. I get that way when my life is threatened by greedy people who don’t care whether I live or die. I’m just strange that way.

So unless they outlaw doctors, it doesn’t get any worse… for me.

‘Stop a pandemic? Generally, you can’t.’

Then why bring it up?

‘The 1st line of defense is a healthy population’

Why your right. and it’s, how did you put it? ‘a very serious national strategic asset’.

Now that’s a threat Washington can get’s it’s teeth into. ‘Put down that sloppy joe lady, you’re threatening a national strategic asset’. Soon, we’ll have the Dept of National Strategic Asset’s combing the streets, putting up cameras in Taco Bell. ‘Sir, you are serving your children sour cream. Come with us.’

(All this skips over what a few thousand illegal immigrants going here and there from down south means, but we’re talking Obama care! Be quiet back there.)

Oorr, we could let people be responsible for their life choices, and get back to figuring out why an MRI cost several times as much as it did 20 years ago, even thought it’s the same machine!

Oh, BTW, I don’t have health insurance. Can’t afford it. Doctors? 1%ers, damn it and I want that silver Jaguar in the parking lot. Give it to me!

When the crooks run everything, people don’t have choices and yes, the fraud in the health industry really does need, and in fact IS, being addressed.

http://consumerist.com/2012/05/health-care-fraud-prosecutions-up-78-since-launch-of-affordable-care-act.html

Honestly, I would’ve been happy if the healthcare reforms went the single payer route or if they opened the door for actual competition between insurance companies. Of course, they did neither.

Agree. While at it, stop the employer based health insurance as well. Make people shop for their own insurance.

“‘we flat out ALREADY have the worst health care system in all the 1st world’

Yeah, well, give it a couple of years. It might get worse and if so, it’s on you.
“

The situation has been getting worse for decades. Can you state with certainty that it would have gotten better if we did nothing? Or that it would be better than what we will have with Obamacare?

Disclaimer: I do not believe that Obamacare is the best solution. But I think we can do better than what we have now.

“Now that’s a threat Washington can get’s it’s teeth into. ‘Put down that sloppy joe lady, you’re threatening a national strategic asset’. Soon, we’ll have the Dept of National Strategic Asset’s combing the streets, putting up cameras in Taco Bell. ‘Sir, you are serving your children sour cream. Come with us.’”

This will happen, you can bet on it.

I like junk food sometimes, and I would bet 99% of 45 year old’s could not hold a candle to my fitness level. Leave me the blank alone please.

Sanitation engineers have saved more lives than all the doctors in all of history put together. The inflection point on the morbidity chart over time was stunningly obvious. Invention of reliable antibiotics was barely a blip.

I still say that the flush toilet was THE greatest invention, ever.

“Who’s that then?”

“I dunno, must be a king.”

“Why?”

“He hasn’t got $hit all over him….”

” Sanitation engineers have saved more lives than all the
doctors in all of history put together .”

No truer words said .

Obamacare is nothing but a powergrab by the busybody dogooders control freaks in the Democrat party who want to save the world - on everyone else’s dime but their own.

Sure is ironic that it was thought up by a right-wing think tank (the Heritage Foundation), and championed and instituted by a Republican governor (you know who!).

“…why the big gap…”

I suspect many voters will only vote for a candidate they believe has a viable chance of winning. So believing Obama will lose by a landslide increases Romney’s chances, and vice versa.

Chalk this one up to propaganda warfare, rather than realistic perceptions…

I hear both, too. Not sure why the big gap in perceptions.

As to the Romney perception as a loser, I gather that information from traditional conservative (or paleocon, as opposed to neocon) sources, many of which are more or less obscure in terms of media exposure. But they have readers and they have influence. It’s just my opinion, gathered from what I’ve been reading, that folks who are unhappy with Romney are more likely to abstain or vote third party than those on the dem or lib side. There’s quite a bit of discussion about it on those sites.

I’m just one person, but Romney looks so…hapless. That seems to be the image he’s projecting. He’s really running a horrible campaign and there’s great unhappiness about it among the party faithful. He looks like a loser. And to many people, perception is reality.

There are more people than you’d think who have been on the end of a good screwing from Bain and other similar outfits, like McKinsey. Myself included.

“Chalk this one up to propaganda warfare, rather than realistic perceptions…”

Are you talking about the failed policies of the past or the failed policies we have now?

Ben, I’ve written a reply, but it just hasn’t come through yet.

Ok, there it is. Anyway, I don’t think Obama’s got much to worry about from Romney. As long as he keeps pushing the perceptions that folks like Romney created the economic misery we’re experiencing in the US, he’s a winner. I think he’ll be the first incumbent to successfully pin the current economic situation on his opponent.

Obama has far more to worry about from within his own party.

“There are more people than you’d think who have been on the end of a good screwing from Bain and other similar outfits, like McKinsey. Myself included.”

I’m sure you have noticed from the defenders of the 1% who post here, such as 2banana and smithers, that the Republican platform is basically, I’ve got mine, now screw the rest of yous, a message delivered with a smug grin.

“I think he’ll be the first incumbent to successfully pin the current economic situation on his opponent.”

(Golf claps)

Who owns more shares of Goldman Sachs, Obama or Romney?

July 11, 2012 9:05 AM

Obama team targets Mitt Romney’s private finances

WASHINGTON — The Obama election campaign has a politically loaded question it wants voters to think about: What is Mitt Romney hiding?

Not a thing, Romney says. The Democrats are just trying to change the subject from the weak economy.

It’s a newly intense back-and-forth as President Barack Obama’s campaign team tries to cast his Republican opponent as a secretive rich guy who keeps his money in offshore accounts and refuses to release more of his tax returns.

The coordinated push, which includes stinging criticism from Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, web videos and television advertisements, comes as the Democrats grasp for ways to gain an advantage in a closely contested election and overcome a steady stream of lackluster economic news.
…

My take is this…The right wing nut cases have taken control of the R party…It will take multiple presidential defeats to drive a stake threw their heart…Maybe, after that, a republican party will arise that I recognize and can re-join…Until then, I will vote for their defeat even if I need to hold my nose while doing it…

‘there’s great unhappiness about it among the party faithful’

OK, here’s how it was put at the Arizona convention:

‘State party chairman Tom Morrissey begged for everyone to stay respectful. “Maybe it’s going to take getting behind somebody we weren’t so excited about. … What I want is to save this country, and we’ve gotta do it together. None of us gets everything we want,” Morrissey said, adding, “Keep your eye on the prize: defeating Barack Obama.”

As I posted here soon after, how’s that for an endorsement?

‘Ladies and gentlemen, a man we weren’t so excited about, and after all, none of us get everything we want. The next president of the United States, Mitt Romney!’

You said, ‘I think he’ll be the first incumbent to successfully pin the current economic situation on his opponent’

I don’t think that’s possible.

One thing I do know; the two guys with the most money got the two slots on the ballot.

“It’s just my opinion, gathered from what I’ve been reading, that folks who are unhappy with Romney are more likely to abstain or vote third party than those on the dem or lib side. There’s quite a bit of discussion about it on those sites.”

From Gallup yesterday:

“However, voters in swing states who support Romney for president are more likely than those backing Obama to say they feel “extremely enthusiastic” about voting — 31% to 23%. The same pattern is seen by party, with 32% of Republicans in the swing states and 25% of Democrats reporting extreme enthusiasm. “

“I think he’ll be the first incumbent to successfully pin the current economic situation on his opponent.”

That’s what happens when you nominate Gordon Gekko as the GOP candidate.

“My take is this…The right wing nut cases have taken control of the R party…I”

And after taking control, they proceeded to nominate the most liberal Republican they could find in both 2008 and 2012. You make a lot of sense, Dave.

So many people are going to be so disappointed. Look at the polls, in average Obama is about 2 or 3 points ahead. And that’s with the RV. RV always favor Dems. If you look at LV, Obama is neck and neck or slightly behind Romney. Second thing is money, Romney is going to unleash close to $1billion, that can make all the difference in a close election.

Money won’t matter as much as Romney believes. What’s going for him is the economy, jobs and stock market. All 3 will deteriorate further closer to election. Romney wins a close one. Even a community college graduate like me can see this. BTW, I am staying home not voting for anyone.

The bookmakers have Obama at 1/2, Romney at 13/8 (1.625/2).

Here’s how I see it:

There are virtually no people out there who voted McCain in 2008 that will vote Obama in 2012. If you didn’t swallow the hope and change nonsense in 2008, you’re not swallowing it today. Which means Romney has a lock on 47% of the vote which is what McCain got.

Which means all he needs is for about 7-8% of the voters who voted for Obama in 2012 to change their minds. With an economy sputtering along the way it is, that should be a slam dunk.

Plus all those hope and changers who had never voted before but went to vote to MAKE HISTORY, won’t be as motivated. It’s cool and hip to vote for the first black president. Re-electing him? Meh, not quite the same cache. Romney raised $106M in June. Obama raised $76M. Tells you what you need to know about which side has the enthusiasm.

Look at states Obama won in 2008 that Bush won in 2004…VA, NC, IN, FL. In all of those states, Republicans had huge wins in 2010 which was a backlash against Obama. I don’t see any way he wins any of those, let alone all of those like he did in 2008. CO went from Bush to Obama and will probably stay Obama this year. The rest are going back to red. And due to the census, just the McCain states of 2008 means 6 more EVs in 2012. To put that in perspective, NH has 4 EVs, NM has 5 EVs, NV has 6 EVs. Just by redistricting, Romney has won a swing state.

I’m just one person, but Romney looks so…hapless. That seems to be the image he’s projecting. He’s really running a horrible campaign and there’s great unhappiness about it among the party faithful. He looks like a loser. And to many people, perception is reality.

Nixon’s 1960 Presidential debate appearance (pale, sweaty, and nervous) played a large part in his election defeat. During the same debate, Kennedy came across as cool, calm, and collected.

Who owns more shares of Goldman Sachs, Obama or Romney?

I was thinking about this last night.
Romney is said to be worth 250 million dollars.
I’m assuming this includes his retirement account.
Reportedly he has been able to put 100,000,000 dollars in this despite a cap of 6000 a year for contributions.

His reported effective tax rate is 14% on 25 million in earnings. This is how much he pays on taxes for every reportable dollar earned. I paid 24% on much less

He is paying zero % tax on his retirement account earnings.

Thus excluding all other ways that he likely hides income his true effective tax rate assuming he earns the same return on his retirement account as his other investments.

14 * 150/250 = around 8%

Toss in the income he likely hides in his off shore accounts and he likely pays much less.

but we need to cut taxes on the job creators.

“You said, ‘I think he’ll be the first incumbent to successfully pin the current economic situation on his opponent’

I don’t think that’s possible.”

Well, time will tell, Ben. So far Obama has managed to pull off some stuff I never thought anyone could get away with, starting with the Nobel Peace Prize. Dang! He’s managed to convince many that he inherited a bum economy he had nothing to with (true, actually) and continued to ride that pony. Now, that pony is pretty much on its last legs. So he’s graduated to the Bain Pain theory. And much as I hate to admit it, it struck a major nerve with me and others. Then there’s Romneycare. Another thing that people might be interested in is the history of Mitt’s father and mentor, George Romney.

Watching Romney try to appeal to Latinos and other minorities is painful. Truth is, he offers nothing to the folks who might really be able to get him elected, and I think assumes they’ll hold their nose and vote for him anyway, because they’ve got no choice. And even if he did offer something, he’s got enough of a snake-in-the-grass image, I don’t think many of those would believe him. I know what we’ll get with an Obama presidency, we’ve already seen it.

“Nixon’s 1960 Presidential debate appearance (pale, sweaty, and nervous) played a large part in his election defeat. During the same debate, Kennedy came across as cool, calm, and collected.”

Romney looks as stiff as a board, and when something doesn’t go according to script, he looks startled, jerky, taken aback and blindsided.

And then there was a clip of him pressing the flesh at some gathering or another. He had this fixed look like a self-satisfied lizard that just slurped a flying bug, sort of robotically shaking hands as if it was something he had to endure. I wouldn’t like it either, but he didn’t have to be so obvious.

Nixon’s 1960 Presidential debate appearance (pale, sweaty, and nervous) played a large part in his election defeat. During the same debate, Kennedy came across as cool, calm, and collected.

That’s a myth perpetuated to hide an unpleasant fact of voter fraud in Chicago.

“Which means Romney has a lock on 47% of the vote which is what McCain got.”

That is a huge assumption. Ask Colorado about people who have an issue with his religion sitting home. And the Tea Party influence has more people potentially voting third pary.

i think romeny will win because of the economy.

they proceeded to nominate the most liberal Republican they could find in both 2008 and 2012. You make a lot of sense, Dave ??

Nice try Neo-Smithers….Here is your liberal;

Romney held several specific positions in the local lay clergy, which generally consists of males over the age of 12.[13] Around 1977, he became a counselor to the president of the Boston Stake.[89] He served as bishop of the ward (ecclesiastical and administrative head of his congregation) at Belmont, Massachusetts, from 1981 to 1986.[90][91] As such, in addition to home teaching, he also formulated Sunday services and classes using LDS scriptures to guide the congregation

You necons had your hay-day with Bush…The nut jobs know there is ZERO chance to elect a Santorum so, in there mission to control the white house they offer McCain or Romney because that gives them a shot…Problem for them is, the center Independent that they covet, is NOT fricken stupid Smithers…Your MaCain & Romney are bought and paid for and the centrists hand that they offer out is just a illusion because they will turn hard right as soon as they are elected…

” Ask Colorado about people who have an issue with his religion sitting home”

There are two types of people who have an issue:

1. Liberals who loathe Mormons. They’re voting Obama no matter what religion his opponent is.

2. Super duper religious Christians. They might have an issue with Mormonism, won’t stop them from voting against Obama. I really doubt there is anyone out there thinking, you know the economy is in the crapper, gas is at $4, Obamacare taxes are going to kill me. But I don’t like Romney’s religion so I’ll sit this one home.

“And the Tea Party influence has more people potentially voting third pary.”

I love the mental gymnastics of Romney haters. One second he’s a right wing zealot and too much of a radical to win. The next he’s too boring and stiff to win. Or is is he a boring and stiff radical?

The Republicans have nominated the one guy that might actually make people vote for Obama again.

Look up “Born on third base, and thinks he hit a home run” in Websters, and there’s a picture of Mitt Romney.

The Republicans loudly proclaimed Scorched Earth policy of trying to screw up everything Obama and the Democrats have tried to get done isn’t helping either.

I’m rooting for Romney to win. You’ve evidently gotta hit rock bottom…….

I’m also betting “Republican” in Vegas, on the betting line:

“Party occupying the White House, the next time Federal troops massacre unarmed civilians in the US of A.”

‘is he a boring and stiff radical’

Well, his policies don’t differ from Obama much, and many say he’s radical. IMO he walks around stiff and boring as a way to keep from messing up. As I brought up the other day, why does he bother? Romney has been running for president for years now? Can you imagine how old that must get?

Republicans say aloud all the time, ‘I don’t like this guy’ etc. He just smiles!

And the responses to why billionaires are running for office didn’t satisfy me. This wasn’t regularly happening even 20 years ago. Rich people can buy politicians, they don’t need more power. So why go through the effort? Something has changed about the picture, IMO.

“why the big gap in perceptions?”

I think it has more to do with who one associates with. I remember being absolutely shocked that Nixon won in 1972. Nobody I knew voted for him.

“Rich people can buy politicians, they don’t need more power. So why go through the effort? “

I don’t get this either. Running for elective office means living in a fishbowl 24/7 and being asked uncomfortable questions on national TV and jet lag and exhaustion. And making bad speeches that someone else has written.

Have you seen any of Romney’s interviews? He comes across as fake, plastic, phony, etc… It screams manchurian candidate. There is something off with that guy. He doesn’t look genuine and it’s painfully obvious.

They might have an issue with Mormonism, won’t stop them from voting against Obama ??

There is a difference here…Evangelicals will vote for a Baptist…They will vote for a Catholic…They will compromise some, But they, will not come-out, like they did for Bush because of the trinity my friend…A Mormon might as well be a Muslim or atheist to many fundamentalists…The LDS acknowledge Jesus as no more than a community organizing carpenter…Many will just stay home…

Romney is going to unleash close to $1billion

I read that during the primaries, candidates ran out of TV ad time before they ran out of money. Obama had so much money in 2008 that he had to buy an entire half-hour of TV time. Maybe Romney can buy ad time during “Househunters International.”

The LDS acknowledge Jesus as no more than a community organizing carpenter

That’s not true, and it’s odd to me that people who simply disagree with Mormons on the nature of the Trinity or Godhead frequently seem to want to believe that.

You ying yangs keep thinking something is going to change by electing one of these bought and paid for jackasses.

The office of the presidency is too weak to change anything. Focusing on it is a waste of time.

I think what many of you are missing here with the Christian vs. Mormon issue is that we have seen that Obama is NOT a Christian, in spite of what he would like us to believe.
In the campaign, he managed to sell the proposition, like so many other “stories” the public was fed about the “candidate”.

Now, we all know better. A more manufactured candidate could probably never exist. WE all now see that Obama is first for Obama and then identifies with his Muslim brothers, and would hope that we “can all just get along” with the Christians.
I’m not buying it.
I don’t want the Mormon, but I don’t want the Satanist, either.

Now that caught be my surprise. It was just around this time four year ago when I first someone call Obama a socialist. At the time, my guess most people using that term had no idea what socialism. I got to test this theory out a few months after the inauguration when a neighbor asked me, “How could you vote for Obama, don’t you know he’s a socialist?” So I asked her if she knew what socialism is. She didn’t have an answer, but insisted that she was a smart person. Half an hour later she came and told me that it “redistibution”, which is incorrect.

Over the years of the Obama administration repeating the word socialist, socialist, socialist has apparently lost its effect, so people have moved on to words like Marxist, Communist, and Fascist. So now we’ve come to satanist. Will this be the end of the line? What will happen if the president is re-elected? Can a word scarier than satanist be identified?

The LDS acknowledge Jesus as no more than a community organizing carpenter

That’s not true, and it’s odd to me that people who simply disagree with Mormons on the nature of the Trinity or Godhead frequently seem to want to believe that.

Correct. But, the difference is a lot deeper than trinity vs. poly/henotheism.

What really puts a bee into the Fundies’ bonnet was that the LDS added to holy writ. That is the unforgivable sin.

I think it’s amusing to see snide comments on Romney’s “message”/platform - because there is none. They’re running a reactionary campaign, not a leadership one.

I also think it’s funny to see the angst about Romney’ money, when so many members of both parties are just as rich and tax-dodging as he is. Let’s see the real books for Diane Feinstein, or Pelosi, or Wasserman-Schultz.

They’re all crooked. The longer they’re in Washington, the more crooked they are - it’s just some are better at hiding it, and some have the media help not pay attention to it. Remember the movie ‘Johnny Dangerously”? Remember the scene where Danny DeVito invites Johnny’s younger brother to ‘Play ball!” with a reward of riches beyond his dreams. THAT’S Washington these days, both parties.

Y’all talk about the 1 %ers. I have news for you - that’s our political class. It’s Pelosi, it’s Romney, it’s Kerry, it’s Bush, it’s all of them. They’re all millionaires, some billionaires - and all of them exempt from the laws they pass for us, while they lecture us that we don’t pay enough taxes.

“Romney looks as stiff as a board, and when something doesn’t go according to script, he looks startled, jerky, taken aback and blindsided.”

There’s nothing more painful for a narcissist than public humiliation. They literally squirm in their skin. This will be on full display all summer/fall as Mr. Outsource gets called on the carpet for his innumerable indiscretions.

Don’t worry about the President, worry about the Global Illuminati.

But I will say, Obama seems to have no interest in the well being of the middle class, he is just concerned with politics.

Romney…I haven’t a clue.

What’s coming is returning to the norm. 1950s US standard of living was a economic / historical aberation. It’s being corrected by:
globalization - downward pressure on wages
massive and growing taxes.

Cutting taxes a la Republican won’t stop the correction to the norm but will lessen the severity.

The amount of government spending and waste is beyond belief. Obummer and company won’t be satisfied until the US is like Greece or Spain. And he still wont’ have a clue.

Obamacare already added FREE birth control as a right. And it’s only getting started….

The government of Iran already provides free birth control to women of reproductive age. And what’s wrong with that? If women can determine when — or if — they wish to reproduce, I think society — and not just American society — will be a lot further ahead.

+1 Slim….

You can look at birth control as preventative care as far as I am concerned…

“f women can determine when — or if — they wish to reproduce, I think society — and not just American society — will be a lot further ahead.”

Great. Let them pay the $10/month for it.

Great. Let them pay the $10/month for it.

Be nice if birth control pills — plus the mandatory doctor visits — were that affordable.

And, while we’re at it, how about if they were available over the counter? And Plan B? Put that out there without a scrip.

“f women can determine when — or if — they wish to reproduce, I think society — and not just American society — will be a lot further ahead.”

And giving women free boob jobs and liposuction would probably increase their self esteem as well which would lead to happier people and society would be helped. Think how much happier millions of men would be as well.

How about a free membership to a gym for everyone? Think how far ahead society would be if everyone was in shape. How about free acne cream for everyone? Imagine a society without any pimples!! How about free teeth whitening? A nice smile can only lead to an advanced society.

Should we make Tylenol free? Why not? Sucks to have a headache. Why should you have to pay to get rid of a headache? Same with a toothache…free Ambesol for one and all!!!

All these things would arguably make society a lot further ahead.

Just make sure a breast reduction is not covered 90% are not needed and doctors make a fortune on them especially when the 1st dr screws up…

When I was young and poor, I used to go down to the local free clinic (I don’t recall if it was planned parenthood) and they would give me an exam and a bag of birth control pills for like $20. (I don’t remember exactly how much it was, but it was cheap.) You just had to make an appointment. This was in So. Cal. in the late 80s/early 90s.

Great. Let them pay the $10/month for it.

Why don’t YOU pay for it? Women don’t get preggers by themselves you know. Pr1ck.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-07-11 09:52:56
Obamacare already added FREE birth control as a right. And it’s only getting started….

The government of Iran already provides free birth control to women of reproductive age. And what’s wrong with that? If women can determine when — or if — they wish to reproduce, I think society — and not just American society — will be a lot further ahead.

People can pay for their own birth control AND their own kids. A. Slim if you want to start a charity go ahead. But keep your paws off my money

“free boob jobs and liposuction “

Nice straw man.

Boob jobs and liposuction are not medically necessary (with rare exceptions for breast reductions). They properly belong in the free market.

I think that we should have publicly supported free clinics for treatment of infectious disease which would reduce overall healthcare costs and support public health by reducing the spread of disease.

Emergency care for accidents also belongs in the public sector. There is no effective choice at that point - no opportunity for shopping around.

I think we should have a 3 tiered system. First, government supported clinics and hospitals providing free care for emergency treatment and acute illnesses. Second, insurance based or single-payer system for providing treatment for chronic conditions, preventive care, and non-emergency but medically necessary treatment. Third, pay-to-play, buyer-beware elective and not medically necessary care.

I would place hormonal birth control pills in the second category and require it to be covered in plans due to its use as medical treatment for endometriosis and other conditions affecting women’s health. This is what the Obama administration mandated recently that Rush Limbaugh flipped out over.

Some abortions also belong in the second category. Treatment for ectopic pregnancy is medically necessary to save one life when 2 would surely be lost. Some may even belong in the first category. Excessive bleeding may necessitate delivery of the embryo or fetus before it is viable.

Why don’t YOU pay for it? Women don’t get preggers by themselves you know. Pr1ck.

SCHWEEEEEEEEEEEET! …… and truth.

“Pr1ck”
Such saucy language, this little girl needs her mouth washed out with soap…

just remember Ivory soap 99 44/100% pure…thats the amount of pregnancies that were caused by 2 willing partners the other 56/100% were forced.

The only free chit “army” is the one on Wall St. and their greed FAR outstrips everyone else.

The fish rots from the head.

Back in the late 1990s, I attended a monthly computer professionals breakfast here in Tucson. One of our most senior — and knowledgeable — members said that Internet sales were already having an effect on CRE.

Mind you, that was 15 years ago.

They have gone bonkers in my small town with commercial. New recently built commercial retail space either cycles through one small business after another, or it sits empty. Same deal with older, existing retail commercial space. Way more commercial than this small town can support. And there is one more strip mall they are completing this year.

In the seven years that I have been living in this small town, the only additional economic activity I have seen is construction of housing, construction of strip malls, more pharmacies, more banks and the expansion of existing medical facilities.

But Maybe the 5% is Right

CADDELL: Taxes and Trust - The Achilles Heels of Obamacare and Obama, Part II

“If the voters had known in 2010 what they know in 2012–that Obamacare is ObamaTax–the bill would not have passed. And Obama and the Democrats know that, too. That’s why they are still fighting over whether or not it’s a tax or a penalty; for the sake of their own survival, they need to keep their rhetorical fog machine fogging.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/10/Taxes-andtrust-2

You have to listen to the evil talk radio/Fox News to hear about the fund raising shortfall that Obama’s been experiencing. Yes, Romney is almost doubling Obama since the recent Supreme Court ruling.

“Romney will lose HBB by 95-5%. I agree with you his chances here aren’t too good.”

Absolutely. But what you fail to realize is that Obama will lose HBB by 95-5%. Ron Paul will gain 90% of the vote.Or some other protest write-in, maybe Snoopy.

Social Darwinist never seem to realize that they will probably be the first victims.

Marie Antoinette certainly didn’t realize it.

The city is bankrupt due to total democrat control and out of control public unions. The mayor wanted to raise taxes up to 74%.

How much worse could republicans do?

Of course, the Republicans will step in and claim “free-enterprise” will fix all of these issues……..

There is a LOT of corruption in CA. No one will deny that.

X’s point is that NOBODY with any competency will work for min wage.

Crime is about to go through the roof there. When that happens the population and businesses will leave immediately. The city then becomes another Detroit. It won’t matter who is running it then.

High speed trains are just commie socialist ideas, anyway! Just ask Europe and China.

Xgs so what would the difference be? Time saved? costs? train hooking up to other rail/subway systems….downtown to downtown? airport to airport?

—————–
Just for grins, I just did a quick count on ARRIVALS

Every mode gets tons of government subsidies, directly or indirectly. Spend money on rail, maybe means you have to spend less on roads and aviation infrastructure.

Depending on the “Free Market” to provide transportation services is a joke. None of it would exist without government backing. There isn’t an inch of road, track or airway that could exist without some kind of government subsidy.

Even the railroads get millions from the government for infrastructure improvements, usually to “reduce congestion on the highways” by moving trailers/containers onto railroad tracks, or by building brides over roads, instead of having grade crossings.

Used to be we had guys in government called “analysts” that examined all of the tradeoffs impartially. Now, it’s all been politicized, and the priorities flip 180 degrees every time the Democrats/Republicans swap jobs.

All the US cars are pretty good now. Auto business is so global I don’t think you really can ascribe a label to cars no matter what the brand. US cars have parts and components from Mexico, Korea, etc…

I have a new Ford Taurus and I love it. Big, comfy, and that Sync system is great. Since I drive many, many miles, a bigger car makes a big difference.

IMO Ford has made some significant improvements in all of their vehicles and therefore they get my business.

I have a Toyota Prius and it’s a piece of crap. I much prefer driving my 14-year-old Explorer. Wish I had bought another Ford and will next time.

Well at least you refuted your earlier comment that “American cars are junk”. It takes a big man to admit when he’s wrong

IIRC, the JD Power survey focuses on initial defects. For long term reliability Consumer Reports does a better jobs. And unlike in years past, there are GM products with the recommended label.

What is interesting is that CR recently panned the redesigned Honda Civic as a poor value. Honda USA was not pleased with that, but CR stood it’s ground. They have also panned the Honda 3.5L engine/trannie combo as inherently flawed. I know more than a few people who have had tranny issues withe their Honda Odysseys and Pilots. Too this day Honda insists that there is no problem with the tranny and refuses to issue recalls.

Colorado,

Are you really not aware of the fact cars sold worldwide have different names in different countries? Keep up dude.

This list is worldwide. And worldwide, Detroit made junk still doesn’t crack the top 10 in terms of quality long term. Maybe Detroit junk isn’t as junky as 20 years ago. But that’s like saying the patient was in a coma 20 years ago and now he’s recovered to the ICU.

Personally, there are a number of cars from Ford, Chrysler, and GM that I would consider buying: Ford F150, Ford Mustang GT, Ford Taurus SHO, Chevy Camaro, Chevy Tahoe, Cadilac CTS-V, Dodge Challenger, etc… my problem is not with the quality of American manufacturers.

My problem is specifically with the government picking winners and losers and changing the rules to suit them and their campaign contributors (yeah, I’m talking to you GM, Chrysler, and the UAW).

The vehicle with the best resale value in the US is the F150, which also happens to be the best selling vehicle in the US…

“Are you really not aware of the fact cars sold worldwide have different names in different countries?”

Yes I am. I was just trying to point out that your list is from Europe, where American cars are not sold. The Ford Cougar is the sporty version of the Ford Mondeo, a European model.

“Keep up dude.”

You really seem to enjoy belittling people. You might get a better reception for your ideas if you stopped doing that.

Oh, the Eurozone…It’s been said before, but I’ll say it again–the US is a mess of a place but dear Lord I wouldn’t want to be a citizen anywhere else in the world right now…

I would buy a pink flamingo and strap that on the back of the horse.

I would buy a pink flamingo and strap that on the back of the horse.

You too, DB, have earned honorary resident status in our neighborhood!

http://www.readthesmiths.com/articles/Images/Humor/zorse.jpg

Well, we do have some pretty good artists in this neighborhood. One of the neighborhood association board members comes to mind.

Only trouble is, how do we sneak Dennis over the plastic fence with his art supplies?

Paintball gun.

Ooooo, turkey lurkey, I like your style! Because a drive-by paintball shooting is exactly what this horse needs.

I think I’ll recruit one of our local gangbanger hooptie drivers to do the honors. Unless, of course, you have a paintball gun handy.

You, too, have gained honorary resident status.

Just remember, slim. The residents are the ones that have to look at the darn thing. Of course, if you are in “couldn’t look worse” territory, then bad and amusing is a viable option.

put a klansman on it.

put a klansman on it. That’s Racist®

Uncalled for.

‘Nobody will ever be on their death bed and think “I wish I had rented for another 2 years”

Somewhere, a couple hundred used house salesmen are writing that down.

‘Nobody will ever be on their death bed and think “I wish I had rented for another 2 years”

I just met someone the other day who said exactly that. But they were not on their death bed.

…too funny to think that the source of this soon-to-be-famous quote is the HBB.

Better yet when’s the tarring and feathering?
Or was I somehow “special?”

“Better yet when’s the tarring and feathering?”

What, did you buy a house with a leaky roof?

You could have bought this in tribeca the last family owned building…it housed nytalkradio.net on part of the bottom floor such an easy commute for the show hosts and parking too…which we are trying to start up again…

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/15918455/10-Hubert-Street-New-York-NY/

“Is it worth stretching nearly beyond your means in order to buy in the most prime location?”

No. Emphatically no. I realize now that when I bought our house 11 yrs ago I made some mistakes, but the one I didn’t make was the most important–we bought a house that we’d be able to afford on one salary. Basically a bit more than two times my income. It has made all the difference in the world, because you know what, life can get pretty pricey. And right now, with our health care costs going up and property taxes and all sorts of other taxes going up, we’re still sitting fine because we’ve got extra cash in the bank. If you overstretch yourself, all you need is one bad event to happen (medical issue, job issue) and you are hurting.

i realize NY is a crazier place than Chicago for the rents/houses but don’t put yourself in the position to destroy yourself financially.

John,

Do you need to be in NYC?

I escaped the insane cost of coastal city living and ran off to flyover land. There’s stuff I miss on occasion but the pennies on the dollar cost of living makes up for all of it. My only regret is not doing it sooner. At some point you have to ask yourself is $4500/month for a 1 bedroom really worth it?

At some point you have to ask yourself is $4500/month for a 1 bedroom really worth it?

Throwing up in my mouth at this. $600/month rented the squad 900SF within a block of Lake Erie in Cleveland before we left…

“Oh I think the article more than speaks for itself.”

Which one, Octomom or the one that says Nancy Pelosi received between $1 million and $5 million in partnership income from a company that talks about the virtues of outsourcing?

OK, so the tax break for moving your factory from California to Texas for their cheaper labor is the same as the tax break from moving from California to China for their cheaper labor.

I think Californians should lobby congress to close that loophole so it is more expensive to leave our expensive, terribly run state (sarcasm).

Isn’t eliminating the deduction for such a move a form of protectionism and anti-free trade? As opposed to what the newspaper articles are implying is stopping a perverse tax incentive?

By the way…I think our state is expensive and terribly run… the sarcasm was for the whole ridiculous statement.

Why would “free trade” need ANY form of deduction?

Actually, EVERY nation in the world, except ours it seems, protects their home markets.

The deduction has nothing to do with “free trade”, it has to do with writing off of business expenses. The point is that the deduction is not specific to outsourcing. The deduction is specific to the movement of production facilities (regardless of whether it is to another city, state or country).

If you change the deduction to only be allowed for movement within the US, then you take what was an even playing field with respect to tax treatment, and make it less attractive to move overseas (ie. a protectionist measure).

If you eliminate the deduction altogether, what does the company do with the now worthless assets of the older production facility? They just stay on the books?

I’m not saying that changing the deduction to be only specific to inter-country moves is the wrong, but we should not call it an outsourcing tax break. It is a tax break that also applies to moves out of country.