Economy-Wrecking Bubbles Everywhere
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Jenn Zepernick and her husband are paying about $285,000 for a newly built four-bedroom Pulte house in Windermere, near Orlando. The family qualified for a loan insured by the Federal Housing Administration because they were considered first-time homebuyers even though Jenn Zepernick had owned a place for a few years in the early 2000s. ‘It’s always great to have a new home at a great mortgage rate — you can’t beat that,’ she said. ‘With the market doing so well, we were like, ‘This was a no-brainer.’”
“Some people believe there’s a vast backlog of foreclosed homes that are about to hit the market. Glenn Kelman, the CEO of online brokerage Redfin, is not buying it. ‘Every conspiracy theorist in real estate believes that there’s a huge chunk of inventory that the banks have just been holding back, waiting for our hopes to rise so that they can dash them again, and I just don’t believe it,’ he says.”
“The number of home foreclosures continues to soar in Florida. Anthony DeMarco, executive VP for government relations with the Florida Bankers Association, says no one should be surprised that Florida remains a hotbed of foreclosure activity. ‘You have the economy and unemployment that’s still up there and that leads to foreclosures.’”
“But DeMarco also points out that some, if not many of the foreclosures counted in this report may have already been in the pipeline for quite awhile. ‘With the robo-signing issue that was out there about eighteen months ago, banks did a self-imposed moratorium and went through and checked all the foreclosures either in the system or coming in the system. That held back some.’”
“The net effect, DeMarco says, is somewhat the same as a dam breaking on a flood-swollen river. ‘You have government programs where the bank willingly works with the government to try to keep people in their homes. What will happen with that, a new program comes out and the new foreclosure process basically stops to work with the government once again on these programs. All of these issues combined have led to resurgence in foreclosures.’”
“Earlier this week, a crowd of advocates gathered on the steps of the Massachusetts State House to rally in support a bil that aims to reduce home foreclosures in the Commonwealth. Among them was Antonio Ennis of Dorchester. During the 2008 housing crisis, the value of his house went down and he began falling behind on payments, putting him at risk of foreclosure. ‘If they reduce the principal …with my current income situation, I can get back on track with my obligation of paying the mortgage, and not just me, millions of other people can do the same thing,’ said Ennis.”
“One of the biggest problems the homebuilding industry faces is depressed property value appraisals, which are further hurt by abandoned properties. ‘We have to rip off the Band-Aid. We need to get this issue behind us and get housing back on its feet,’ said New Jersey Builders Association CEO Timothy J. Touhey.”
“‘What goes up a lot must keep going up’ was the conclusion from the very first Reuters Indian housing market poll this week. And it sounded very familiar. Past experience shows that respondents to housing market polls – whether they be independent analysts, mortgage brokers, chartered surveyors – tend to cling to an optimistic tone even as trouble clearly brews below the surface.”
“Even new housing projects located miles away from the city have spawned skyrocketing prices, but few are fully occupied. Pankaj Kapoor, founder and managing director of Liases Foras, a real estate research firm, spoke of how projects under construction on the outskirts of Delhi were more brightly illuminated than the completed ones. Builders would use halogen bulbs to light up newly contructed, unsold apartments and feign occupation while completed projects looked less radiant as they were owned by speculators, not real inhabitants.”
“That sounds a lot like the new ghost towns of Spain. ‘There is no social fabric, no shops and (home buyers) will not be able to live there. I feel some of these properties are 10 to 15 years away from any kind of habitation,’ Kapoor said.”
“Jingjin City is about 120 miles from Beijing, but few people live in the sprawling development. No train or subway goes there. Jingjin City has no hospital. No kindergarten. No supermarket. Grass grows man-high outside the unoccupied villas. At Moon River Castle Apartments in east Beijing, fewer than 30% of the parking spaces were filled in one building, and only a few apartments appeared occupied. There were no stores on the first floor — only a small supermarket.”
“At Moon River, apartments cost 3,300 yuan a square foot — equivalent to about $520. ‘I think the house prices in our county are crazy in recent years,’ says Ma Fengzhi, 41, who teaches politics in a Shenqiu high school in central Henan province and makes about 1,000 yuan a month, or about $160. She calls that ‘midlevel.’ ‘A lot of people earn less than me, I’m a middle level, but most of us want to buy our own house,’ Ma says. ‘Why? Because we think it’s a good way to store value. Vegetable and meat prices are rising. The bank cut interest rates. Where should we put our money? Buying a house is the best choice right now.’”
“The lack of affordable properties continues to prove problematic across Australia and some industry experts are concerned that the situation will worsen. Many Australians are finding it hard to stump up enough money to secure a mortgage and housing supply has hit rock bottom in some parts of the country. ‘The reality is that approvals for both detached houses and multi units remain at historic lows. This just highlights how much lost ground is yet to be regained in South Australia,’ Housing Industry Association executive director Robert Harding said.”
“Mr Harding believes that action needs to be taken at national and state government level in order to stimulate some much needed growth in the property sector. It is absolutely crucial that house hunters are given more incentives to take out a home loan.”
“Price pressure in the Bay Area was a major factor in the rise in prices in San Joaquin County until the bubble burst. With prices again rising west of the Altamont Pass, some buyers are venturing into this county. One agent reported listing a Tracy home Saturday and receiving 16 offers, one of them for cash, many for more than the list price and most from Bay Area buyers.”
“The lack of inventory has forced buyers to make multiple offers as competition heightens for what homes are on the market. ‘I love the market now,’” said Lela Nelson, who’s been selling homes in Stockton for 34 years.”
“Millions of Californians are paying close to half their income for housing – a level once considered foolish. Even as home prices have tumbled, the cost of homeownership has continued to rise. In 2006, Ernie and Edith Garcia began building their dream home on a Fountain Valley lot his grandparents had purchased decades earlier. Six years, one recession and one layoff later, the mortgage on their home has become an anvil around their necks. ‘The American dream?’ Ernie Garcia asks. ‘This has turned out to be the American nightmare.’”
“Today, some 2.7 million California households – homeowners and renters – pay at least half their income for housing. That includes the Garcias and about 200,000 other Orange County households. The numbers have nearly doubled in the past decade, according to the Census Bureau. A much bigger group – 4.6 million California households – is paying 35 percent or more, above the traditional 30 percent norm, up by 1.7 million in a decade.”
“Natalie Lohrenz sees a lot of homeowners in trouble as counseling director at Consumer Credit Counseling Service of Orange County. Before they reach her, homeowners have frequently made many bad decisions. ‘Not only are they not saving for their future, they’re robbing from their future’ by raiding their retirement savings, Lohrenz said. ‘Many of them have let everything else go in their struggle to keep their homes.’”
“The United States has more than 20 million people unemployed, underemployed or out of the workforce altogether because of a burst housing bubble. We also have more than 10 million homeowners who are underwater in their mortgages. And, we have tens of millions of people approaching retirement who have seen most of their life’s savings disappear when plunging house prices eliminated most or all of the equity in their home.”
“This situation could have been prevented if the government had taken steps to stem the growth of the housing bubble before it reached such dangerous levels. Governments and central banks should be focused on preventing bubbles before they grow large enough to be so dangerous and disruptive. Central banks in particular are well-situated to take action, since central banks are designed to be less susceptible to short-term political considerations.”
“There is probably no way at this point to deflate the bubbles in Australia, Canada, and the U.K. without causing considerable pain. It would probably still be better to take steps now than allow for even more people to become caught up in the bubble.”
“Perhaps more importantly, the public has to demand that central banks put bubble prevention at the top of their agenda. These banks have been ignoring economy-wrecking bubbles everywhere, somehow thinking they have down their job because they kept inflation at 2.0 percent. It’s wonderful that the central banks met their inflation target, but why should anyone give a damn?”
‘This was a no-brainer.’
No brain. Brain dead……. a distinction without a difference.
Some people believe there’s a vast backlog of foreclosed homes that are about to hit the market. Glenn Kelman, the CEO of online brokerage Redfin, is not buying it.
“The number of home foreclosures continues to soar in Florida. Anthony DeMarco, executive VP for government relations with the Florida Bankers Association.
Ben, did you put these two next to each other on purpose?
Some people
believeknow there’s a vast backlog of foreclosed homes that are about to hit the market. Glenn Kelman, the CEO of online brokerage Redfin, isnot buyingignoring it.That was my thought: Was this a suggestion that DeMarco is one of Mr. Kelman’s conspiracy mongers?
If you want to get to the truth of the matter, try to figure out how much of Redfin’s support comes from Realtors©.
Realtor’s don’t like Redfin–Redfin is trying to break the traditional 6% commission monopoly.
If you buy using a Redfin broker, and the seller pays Redfin 3% (half of the 6% commission), Redfin will refund you a portion of the 3% commission and put it toward your closing costs.
If you sell using a Redfin broker, they charge a fee of 1.5% (not 3%) with a maximum of $5,500. You may still have to pay the buyer’s broker’s fee (if there is a broker involved), but you save at least 1.5% of the sale price.
My understanding (from a friend who works for Redfin–not one of their agents) is that Redfin brokers are paid a salary from Redfin (so their interests are different than a traditional broker).
My understanding (from a friend who works for Redfin–not one of their agents) is that Redfin brokers are paid a salary from Redfin (so their interests are different than a traditional broker).
Their interest is the same as a traditional broker to get you to buy a house at the highest price possible. Even if their commission isn’t as big they still make money on the commission, same as any broker.
My understanding is that the brokers are not paid more if you pay more for the home, they get paid a salary and a bonus based on customer satisfaction.
Clearly, if the company gets paid more for a higher priced home, that there will be an incentive and pressure somewhere to get you to pay more, but the connection between higher price paid and higher pay to the agent is more indirect than typical.
‘Every conspiracy theorist in real estate believes that there’s a huge chunk of inventory that the banks have just been holding back, waiting for our hopes to rise so that they can dash them again, and I just don’t believe it,’ he says.
Yeah…I’m happy being a real estate conspiracy theorist.
“Some people believe there is a vast backlog of foreclosed homes that are about to hit the market.”
Believe, huh. It isn’t matter of belief - believing in the Easter Bunny comes under the heading of belief. If it is anything it is a matter of fact - fact as in it is or it isn’t; fact as in what are shown by the numbers.
ISTR someone posting a chart showing quite the growth in shadow inventory. It was posted within the past couple of weeks on this very HBB.
Lies! Those numnbers are all lies!
“numnbers” = “numbers”
(numnbers are also lies)
You’ll notice that the Redfin CEO did not bother to post any facts to back up his “conspiracy theorist” assertion…
‘did not bother to post any facts’
It’s NPR.
Since the NAR openly advertises on NPR these days, makes perfect sense…
Yeeeeeeeeeeeaup!
If the Redfin CEO had posted a fact to back up the assertion, maybe NPR would have quoted that too. So we don’t know if it’s Redfin or NPR.
It’s pretty plain that the inventory will be dripped out little by little, like a time-release drug, to keep prices bouncing along a bottom instead of cratering. By that reasoning, the existance of the shadow inventory is fast becoming a moot point.
Unless we were to…oh…say…make the banks use mark to market accounting. Like they always did up until very recently.
“By that reasoning, the existance of the shadow inventory is fast becoming a moot point.”
And it will remain moot right up until the point when regime change makes it germane again.
I’ve been posting the numbers for CA. They show:
1. REO in CA has been falling steadily (down 25% over the prior 5 months)–source (ForeclosureRadar); and
2. Non-current loan rates in CA have been falling steadily over the prior ~30 months, from a peak of 15% in February 2010 down to about 9% as of the end of May 2012–source (Lender Processing Services)
This is not true for every state in the country.
Pimp,
The only thing you post is lies, bull$hit and obfuscation since you’ve been here.
“At Moon River, apartments cost 3,300 yuan a square foot — equivalent to about $520. ‘I think the house prices in our county are crazy in recent years,’ says Ma Fengzhi, 41, who teaches politics in a Shenqiu high school in central Henan province and makes about 1,000 yuan a month, or about $160.
A quick calculation with the help of the Bankrate mortgage payment calculator shows that if Ma follows the 28% rule, then she can afford 16 sq ft of apartment — not including taxes or insurance.
That’s about 7 feet by 27 inches. Not entirely unlike the size of a grave.
The Chinese bubble is simply staggering. Ultra premium prices for flats in what are basically sh#thole towns where you can’t even drink the tap water. By comparison the pricey San Francisco Bay Area is “affordable”.
By comparison the pricey San Francisco Bay Area is “affordable”.
so what do you think is going to happen ?
I have a bad feeling and it won’t go over here well….
Interesting little anecdote:
I sometimes lurk at a real estate blog that pretty much concentrates on Greenwich, Connecticut real estate only. Now, this is an area where the “low end” is considered $750,000 to $1.5 mil. Anyway, the blogger did a post about a week or so ago on how the banks and various other financially oriented companies (like hedge funds, etc.) are laying off middle, upper middle tier employees, traders, etc. in droves. We’re talking folks who make about a mil to a couple of mil a year. He’s seeing a reduction in “aspirational” buyers.
I didn’t give it much thought, at first.
Then my sis, who lives up in Fairfield County outside of Greenwich, and is in the recruiting game, tells me the same thing yesterday.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer buncha folks.
So apparently, there’s a bubble popping in financial sector employment. And we’re not talking about lowly clerks and analysts here. Of course, it’s anecdotal at this point. Haven’t seen any press on it, and probably won’t.
“Some people believe there’s a vast backlog of foreclosed homes that are about to hit the market. Glenn Kelman, the CEO of online brokerage Redfin, is not buying it. ‘Every conspiracy theorist in real estate believes that there’s a huge chunk of inventory that the banks have just been holding back, waiting for our hopes to rise so that they can dash them again, and I just don’t believe it,’ he says.”
Disbelieve all you want Mr. Kelman. Take a ride around your neighborhood and look thru the front windows that see clear to the other side of the room and out through the back windows. Sit down with a few locals for a cup of Joe and you’ll quickly understand how many people there are who haven’t made a mortgage payment in years.
‘As many as 90 percent of REOs are withheld from sale, according to estimates recently provided to AOL Real Estate by two analytics firms. It’s a testament to lenders’ fears that flooding the market with foreclosed homes could wreak havoc on their balance sheets and present a danger to the housing market as a whole.’
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/07/13/shadow-reo-as-much-as-90-percent-of-foreclosed-properties-are-h/
Nice post Ben…. I have been thinking about this shadow inventory recently with the push by some for loan reductions….Timmy being the point man for it…Makes me think that he knows more than most about what may be out there…I am surmising that he see’s the “write down” as the only way to clear the market…Alternatively, leaking out a little bit at a time may help the mortgage holders but if, the shadow inventory is as deep as some people suspect how long will it take for the market to clear…2 more years…5 more ??
‘the only way to clear the market’
They could just sell them.
This week I was at a foreclosure where the house across the street and next door were also abandoned. A guy had just bought one which squatters had ruined (partially burned, no water, so feces issues). He told me he bought it ‘just to clean that rat trap up.’ Then he pointed to the other one; trash everywhere, and said ‘I’m trying to buy that one too, but Wells Fargo hasn’t foreclosed. It’s been almost two years. Why on earth would they let it sit like that?’
I didn’t go into it with him.
The poor clueless bastard.
Ben…. Was he from upstate NY?
California is on pace to be through their excess in less than 2 years. Other parts of the country are on pace to take a decade or longer.
I think this means that the odds are the CA won’t go much faster in clearing their inventory, but that other places like FL/NY, etc. won’t go much slower (and could well speed up in dropping inventory on the market).
So long as five or so banks comprise over 50% of the banking sector, and a couple of govt-owned oligopolies round out the influential players in home lending, you can expect a disproportionate share of REOs to remain withheld from sale in order to artificially drive up prices.
“Jingjin City is about 120 miles from Beijing, but few people live in the sprawling development. No train or subway goes there. Jingjin City has no hospital. No kindergarten. No supermarket. Grass grows man-high outside the unoccupied villas.”
Does JingleMale own a few condos there?
Does this person not see irony in his statement?
The free sh*t army has no shame and a huge sense of entitlement.
‘If they reduce the principal …with my current income situation, I can get back on track with my obligation of paying the mortgage, and not just me, millions of other people can do the same thing,’ said Ennis.”
‘I can get back on track with my obligation of paying the mortgage’
Come on now Ennis, you can ‘get back on track’ anytime you want. But that’s it, you don’t want to, do you? And meanwhile, you are living there for free.
But he wants to fulfill his obligation!
Of course he does. After he revises what his obligation is.
Among them was Antonio Ennis of Dorchester. During the 2008 housing crisis, the value of his house went down and he began falling behind on payments, putting him at risk of foreclosure. ‘If they reduce the principal …with my current income situation, I can get back on track with my obligation of paying the mortgage, and not just me, millions of other people can do the same thing,’ said Ennis.”
A quick search of Massachusetts property records for Dorchester reveals that either Antonio is his middle name and not included on any property records; or that his is not named on the deed, mortgage, or any liens. As always, there is always another side of this story, in this case, I can’t even figure out what the situation is…
The names have been changed to protect the guilty?
“Millions of Californians are paying close to half their income for housing – a level once considered foolish.”
Is it no longer considered foolish to throw away half your income for housing?
“Even as home prices have tumbled, the cost of homeownership has continued to rise.”
Lots of Californians must still be overpaying for housing; otherwise the cost of ownership would not continue to rise, despite ongoing high joblessness and economic weakness.
‘One agent reported listing a Tracy home Saturday and receiving 16 offers, one of them for cash, many for more than the list price and most from Bay Area buyers’
Who knew Bayareans were so keen to live in Tracy?
On the map Tracy is only an inch away from the Bay Area.
Set your cruise control to sixty-five every morning and it’ll take you no time at all to make it to work. Same with going home in the afternoon. Push your speed up to seventy-or-so if you are feeling a bit frisky.
Do the math if you don’t believe me: Numbers never lie.
So could it be these bayareans are speculating? And note that it says 15 offers weren’t cash; speculating with borrowed money. What could go wrong?
OPM: Why, it a miracle!
Tracy? That is a S#*thole! Well, Stockton (Tracy’s neighbor) did have values fall by almost 70%, so maybe some feel the time is ripe. The only logic I can come up with is that many might share sfrenter’s frustration in finding affordable housing in SF or very close by. If enough people decide that it just isn’t gonna happen, then Tracy is a viable, if depressing alternative.
I was paying too much (rent) in California, and decided to get out of the rat race. I just closed on my house last week in a wonderful Des Moines suburb. After tax break, I am paying half of what I was paying for (townhouse) rent, for 3 times the house in a much nicer neighborhood. Is the weather as nice? Of course not, but I can afford a great 2 week winter vacation to make up for it.
I just didn’t see the CA market correcting itself, being “buyers” who were foreclosed just 36 months ago,are AGAIN being given 3.5% down loan guaranteed by Fannie Mae. I know of MANY folks (”re-runs”) who are keeping the market propped up above $400k, being they are financed by you and I. (in Ventura county area)
Bottom line: I am done with California. Give me the simple life.
“Bottom line: I am done with California. Give me the simple life.”
Good advice. Tell your friends.
Shh… don’t kick up that hive of locusts. The people that live there are what made it that way, and will do the same to other places if there are enough of them there.
“The people that live there are what made it that way …”
I’m well into sharing the wealth, other states are welcome to our surplus.
Apparently being a DebtJunky is still shameless.
What is odd is that I have acquaintances who are hopeless DebtJunkies yet they yammer on about how government is “fiscally irresponsible”.
(in Ventura county area)
Expensive area home of movie stars and who knows what else
Wow, a semi-Oil City. And if you have two-week vacation, sounds like you found a job there too.
Congrats!
The Toronto Real Estate Board says July home sales in the city slipped 1.5% compared with a year ago.
The board says there were 7,570 homes sold last month compared with 7,683 a year ago, as condominium sales slowed.
Concerns about a condo bubble had been mounting in Toronto where average prices have surged by a third to $516,787 from five years ago and there are more skyscrapers under construction than any city in North America.
These concerns, along with worries about Canadians’ record household debt, led Ottawa to tighten mortgage rates last month.
But lately there have been signs that Canada’s real estate market is cooling.
Vancouver, where soaring prices raised bubble fears earlier this year, is now mired in a 10-year low for sales with no immediate end in sight.
Property sales in July dropped 11.2% from June — marking a decade low for activity.
Meanwhile in Toronto, another report this week suggested consumer taste seems to be switching to larger existing apartments from new condo units which have shrunk in size because of land costs.
‘If your car taste runs more to Aston Martins and Ferraris than SUVs, there is hope for you, too. I have been speaking with luxury condo builders to see if there is interest in designing and building Ottawa’s first car condo. Prices at these condos can range from $75,000 to $200,000 or more.’
‘Although a car condo may appear costly at the outset, it can actually save the investment car collector money in the long run as it eliminates the need for winter storage, reduces maintenance costs and its value in the long term may appreciate, just like other real estate investments.’
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/Condo+Scene+Vvvaroom+with+view+condos+make+space+your+vehicle/7001210/story.html
“Meanwhile in Toronto, another report this week suggested consumer taste seems to be switching to larger existing apartments from new condo units which have shrunk in size because of land costs.”
Same thing that happened in every bubblicious place upon this earth. Land costs skyrocketed, so builders milk every dollar they can out of every square inch, and build product that nobody wants. What a hideous waste of natural resources. Most of us will be dead before this is all worked out.
The Toronto Real Estate Board says July home sales in the city slipped 1.5% compared with a year ago.
The board says there were 7,570 homes sold last month compared with 7,683 a year ago, as condominium sales slowed.
These concerns, along with worries about Canadians’ record household debt, led Ottawa to tighten mortgage rates last month.
But lately there have been signs that Canada’s real estate market is cooling.
Vancouver, where soaring prices raised bubble fears earlier this year, is now mired in a 10-year low for sales with no immediate end in sight.
Property sales in July dropped 11.2% from June — marking a decade low for activity.
Meanwhile in Toronto, another report this week suggested consumer taste seems to be switching to larger existing apartments from new condo units which have shrunk in size because of land costs.
I took the 401 into west Toronto yesterday and had to pay the 401 attendant for excessive parking on the six lane super highway!
Toronto is even worse than Atlanta for traffic. I nominate it for the “Worst Traffic in North America”.
And those building cranes atop their new condos. I hope they sell enough condos to be able to pay for the crane removals.
“Today, some 2.7 million California households – homeowners and renters – pay at least half their income for housing.”
Half my income is 94% of my take home pay.
But with the reliable California sun, you can photosynthesize your own nutrients if you can’t afford groceries.
Or stop saving for retirement. My guess is that people give up on that before they give up on food.
Only one domino should be made to fall at a time.
I learned well during my time there. Retirement? That’s a quart of good whiskey and a pistol, when you finally hit the end of your rope.
I don’t have a lot of faith my nest egg would survive the upcoming economic collapse anyway, so it’s no big deal. I’m living my golden years now, rather than put them in the hands of finance industry thieves.
I’m living my golden years now, rather than put them in the hands of finance industry thieves.
Same here.
Given the fact that I get around by bike, I’m amazed that I’ve lived as long as I have. So, I’m enjoying life as it is now. Retirement is not something I give a lot of thought to.
Hey, none of that. We expect you to hang around for a good long while. You don’t have to retire, though.
How was the performance last night?
But “30 percent doesn’t seem to click with reality in Orange County,” said Glenn Hayes, president of Neighborhood Housing Services of Orange County, which counsels prospective homeowners and people in trouble on their mortgages. “Historically, we used to try to do 28 or 30 percent, but you couldn’t buy in Orange County for that.”
Then maybe one shouldn’t buy.
“It took them three years to build their dream house. Unexpected cost overruns boosted the price tag by $100,000 more than they had budgeted. Final tab: $647,000. The payments, including insurance and taxes, came to $4,025 a month. Their house payment consumed just under 40 percent of their income. It would be manageable, if nothing went wrong.”
But things do go wrong. Does anyone ever have a 30 year period in their life when nothing goes wrong? There’s a reason the historical limit was 28 to 30 percent of income. Arguably that limit should be lower now, not higher, given greater uncertainty with employment and incomes.
Well SDGreg, regarding the second quote where the suckers paid a contractor $647k for a house, something gets lost in a very big way…..
Can anyone of you guess what that is?
Aside from the contractor issues, they were initially planning on paying an amount that was 4.5 times their annual income, more than 5 times annual income after the overruns. Considering they apparently already owned the land, that’s a stupendous amount considering land is usually a big part of the cost of a coastal Southern California house.
What got lost is the fact that the “owner” got ripped off by the contractor in a big way…… Unless he built Buckingham Palace.