August 6, 2012

Elephants In The Room

The Vancouver Sun reports from Canada. “Metro Vancouver’s real estate market remained in a slump in July, with home sales volumes down 18.4 per cent compared to the same month a year earlier. That contrasts with market conditions 18 months ago when the price of detached homes was jumping $100,000 a month in some markets including Richmond. ‘Where we have seen some shift is a drop-off in [the volume] of the investors into residential real estate. The investor class has sort of moved away,’ said Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver president, Eugen Klein.”

Global Edmonton. “The number of homes in Edmonton selling for over $1 million is up significantly since 2011. ‘We saw this in 2006 and 2007 and it’s taken us a while to get back to those levels, says Sally Munro of Century 21 Platinum Realty. ‘A lot of it is fueled by interest rates. A million dollars today is like 500-thousand was years ago,’ says Munro.”

The Edmonton Journal. “Housing sales were up in July but average prices for resale homes dropped during the month compared with June, the Realtors Association of Edmonton said. The average single family detached price declined from $342,014 in June to $335,501 in July. ‘We have had good activity in sales of homes over $1 million, and that was a bit surprising,’ said association president Doug Singleton. ‘The current very low mortgage rates are positive for real estate. I think they are really trying to encourage people to buy with these rates.’”

The Financial Post. “Ratesupermarket.ca says the fixed rate on a five-year mortgage has dropped to 2.94%, below the 2.99% rate that caused a furor earlier this year with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty warning banks not to get too aggressive with pricing. But how do you say no to these rates, especially if you have a mountain of debt? This may be the best time ever to consolidate debt, if you can tame your spending at the same time.”

“It’s not clear consumers are doing that. Vince Gaetano, a principal at monstermortgage.ca reports a rush to refinance, with many consumers pushing their home-equity lines of credit to 80% of their home’s value ahead of new rules from the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions that limit that percentage to 65% for HELOCs. ‘I truly believe [the real estate] market has softened and the banks want to make more margin,’ Mr. Gaetano says. ‘The volume is just not going to give them their profits.’”

“‘The level of yields don’t make any sense,’ says Craig Alexander, chief economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank. ‘Traditionally, five-year mortgage rates have a tight correlation with government bond yields. We are in an atypical environment, the level of bond yield is so exceptionally low it doesn’t appear to be sustainable. If you think about it, after you strip out inflation, investors are getting a negative return.’”

The Calgary Herald. “On July 9, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty rolled out changes to government-insured, high-ratio mortgages that included a drop from 30-to 25-year mortgages, limiting refinancing to 80 per cent of the loan-to-value ratio, down from 85 per cent, as well as limiting the gross debt service ratio to 39 per cent and the total debt service ratio to 44 per cent.”

“Chris Stewart a mortgage associate with Mortgage Alliance said part of the debt problem was created when purchasers could buy homes with 40-year mortgages, no down payments and a higher interest rate, a practice that reached the height of its popularity during the housing boom about five years ago. Now many of those mortgages need to be refinanced as their terms end and many people are finding themselves in a negative equity situation because house values have fallen and not much of the principal is paid down.”

“‘Those clients got 40-year mortgages with zero down with the four per cent lending fee tacked on. That’s 104 per cent financing,’ he said. ‘If you have a 25-year amortization rate with 4.5 per cent interest, you’ll be paying at least three times the actual cost of the house. So at 40 years, it’s crazy.’”

The National Post. “‘On a $500,000 mortgage, which is not unreasonable for a typical middle-class home in downtown Toronto, the difference between a 30-year amortization and a 25-year amortization amounts to about $263 a month. For many families, daycare is a significant expense that goes away after, say, five years, when many of them would be renewing anyway and in a position to make higher payments. The new rules basically eliminate these buyers, or make it a lot more difficult for them — unnecessarily, I believe,’ explains Kathryn Kotris, principal broker of Mortgage Architects in Toronto.”

“Ms. Kotris would like to see more attention paid to unsecured debt, such as credit cards and unsecured lines of credit, which has boomed in recent years and may be the real financial elephant in the room.”

From Bloomberg. “Standard & Poor’s cut its outlook to negative from stable on seven Canadian banks Friday, citing a prolonged increase in housing prices and consumer indebtedness. The debt of Canadian financial companies is the second-worst performer this month after Japan among 35 global peers, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch data. ‘Were house prices to drop materially and over a prolonged period of time, then households would start to de-lever,’ Peter Routledge, an analyst in Toronto at National Bank Financial, said in an email. ‘We’re not there yet, but that issue is the elephant in the room.’”

The Winnepeg Free Press. “Canada’s two hottest housing markets may finally be cooling, but industry officials insist the chill hasn’t descended on Winnipeg, in spite of two consecutive monthly declines in MLS sales. On the contrary, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. is still predicting Winnipeg will set a record for MLS sales this year. WR president Shirley Przybyl said bidding wars are also still occurring on some properties, and 43.5 per cent of the homes that sold last month went for more than the asking price — both signs of a vibrant market. ‘If it is (cooling down), we would say it is because that would mean some relief for buyers. But I just don’t see that.’”

“CMHC regional economist Lai Sing Louie doesn’t see it either. ‘Overall, we’re still projecting demand will remain elevated and sales will hit a record high this year,’ Louie said.”

The Chronicle Herald. “Soaring property assessments and a crippling property tax bill forced Chris Reardon to sell his cavernous 6,800-square-foot, single-storey building. According to Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations online property records, a mortgage registered for the Agricola Street property in 2000 with Reardon as the guarantor was for the sum of $144,500. If he sold the property at the most recent assessed value of $364,000, it’s possible Reardon more than doubled his investment.”

“But Reardon said he took issue with the sudden dramatic spikes in property valuation, rather than gradual and predictable increases in assessed value and taxes that small businesses can budget for. Although Reardon tried to pass on some of the added costs — he occasionally rented out a section of the building to production companies or other ventures — he was forced to absorb most of the increases.”

“‘The neighbourhood is not exactly a high-rent district so I could only charge so much for (renting) the property. I get people approaching me telling me their taxes have gone up 100 or 200 per cent a year. If you’ve owned a small barbershop in the north end for 30 years, for example, you can’t just double the cost of a haircut to make up for it,’ he said. ‘The only alternative for small-business owners is to sell their property. But what kind of a community is Halifax becoming if small businesses can’t afford to operate?’”

From Durham Region. “Durham’s housing market may be a steal compared to Toronto — but prices are inching up here too. Durham’s average selling price in June was $344,907. That’s compared with $553,923 in Toronto, $595,212 in York and $440,026 in Peel. Larry Hummel, chief assessor at MPAC, says it’s good news for homeowners. ‘A home is the single largest asset for most families, if prices are increasing at a reasonable rate it is an indication of some strength in the economy,’ he said.”

“However, the steady climb makes things tougher for home buyers looking to break into the market, especially in Durham where single-family homes make up about 70 per cent of the housing stock. ‘House prices are going up and up, my pay has gone up zero per cent. It’s the same for a lot of people,’ says Matt Clifford, a 26-year-old father of two from Oshawa. ‘We need more places here that someone average can afford.’”

The Toronto Star. “A friend was recently lamenting that there was ‘no place for him in Toronto’ because he’d likely never be able to buy a home in the city he loves. Like a lot of people, he feels renting is tenuous and temporary, as if the floorboards could be pulled out from under him at any moment. For over a decade the city has been in an obsessive frenzy over real estate where our identity as citizens is hooked to buying something: a chunk of one’s own, on the ground or in the sky.”

‘Somewhere in its DNA Toronto still thinks of itself as a small provincial town, where home ownership is right and renting is, well, something only poor people and students do. The frenzy has cranked that feeling up, making people who rent feel bad about their lot in life, when instead they should feel good. Friends who were once social beings, always up for something, suddenly go missing when they become homeowners. There’s that bathroom to retile and baseboards to refinish. Or they’re simply house poor and have had to clip their mojito budget.”

“They occasionally invite you over to their homes, but their flat screens are perpetually on HGTV and they discuss strange things like duct cleaning, interest rates and sometimes proudly show off their new attic insulation. So many good people have been lost and we just get glimpses of them now and then, covered in paint, on Facebook. Alas, we knew them once.”




RSS feed

42 Comments »

Comment by Lionel
2012-08-06 06:37:15

Well, Winnipeg is pretty much the equivalent of Paris, London or New York. It’s… oh wait, it’s a frigid, miserable hellhole. My parents left Winnipeg before I was born, and I thank them every day for this. I returned there a few years back for my grandmother’s funeral. It was April, and the snow was piled up eight feet high. Driving around, it was like Mad Max, with the road paint stripped from all the ice, so there were no visible lanes. In the summer, it’s humid and chock full of mosquitos. This was back in 2005, and there was talk of bubbling prices. I couldn’t believe it then, and I don’t buy it now. Let’s also not forget that it’s as flat an area as you could possibly find. There’s zero reason for limited availability of housing.

A few summers later I’d gone out to a cabin my mom had bought when she was in college. It’s charming, and the Lake of the Woods is a beautiful spot, but it was still hard to justify the $400K price people were assessing the old property. I mean one person with a crowbar could take the place out in a day. And I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they lease the land from the government.

This won’t end well.

Comment by polly
2012-08-06 07:49:36

You could have a lot of very nice vacations for a lot of years on $400,000, even after you pay the taxes.

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-08-06 08:35:46

Yeah, but then you won’t get rich by selling it for 2 million when the time comes.

Comment by Lionel
2012-08-06 09:03:11

Oh, trust me, I’ve asked my mom to sell it, but it comes with multiple, how should I say, familial encumbrances. We have a twit in-law who lives there in the winter and lets his buddies hang out there. No effing idea why he’d want to be there in the winter or where the heck is wife is (my cousin).

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Steve J
2012-08-06 11:28:29

I remember MadMax taking place in the Australian desert.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 06:40:57

The beginnings of the bubble popping.

Soon to be followed by “We are just not going to give away our house.”

And then come the bailouts!

Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 06:57:44

“Metro Vancouver’s real estate market remained in a slump in July, with home sales volumes down 18.4 per cent compared to the same month a year earlier.

Forgot the money quote

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 06:48:32

???

Does the average middle class person in Toronto make $175,000/year???

The bubble in Canada is epic.

The National Post. “‘On a $500,000 mortgage, which is not unreasonable for a typical middle-class home in downtown Toronto,

Comment by In Colorado
2012-08-06 07:36:41

What’s even more amazing is that there is no MID in Canada, and yet they have a bubble that put ours to shame.

Comment by michael
2012-08-06 08:00:04

What’s their cap gain rate on the sale of a personal residence?

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-08-06 07:38:49

Per capita income in Toronto is about $38,000.

Comment by Blue Skye
2012-08-06 08:24:39

The number of high end boats out of Toronto is staggering.

 
 
 
2012-08-06 06:50:56

Canada’s housing collapse is going to be stunning.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 07:37:19

Luckily the U.S. will have not only a great view from the sidelines, but also a wealth of perspective gained from seeing our own bubble collapse five years ago.

Comment by Blue Skye
2012-08-06 08:26:42

Odd that they cannot see across the border from the Canadian side.

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-08-06 08:36:46

Oh, they can see. They can see that it’s different there.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by 45north
2012-08-06 09:25:26

it’s more than odd, you know in the US , I think that the banks were genuinely surprised by the downturn but in Canada I don’t think they are. I’m thinking that the Canadian banks will aggressively pursue foreclosure. Right now default rates are at 0.5%.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-08-06 10:18:54

Maybe the Canadian banks will actively seek CMHC and let the taxpayer foot the bill. Do they have to foreclose to do that?

 
 
Comment by Lionel
2012-08-06 12:28:50

Blue Skye, there is a subtle arrogance that permeates Canadian thinking in regard to the US. It doesn’t apply to my parents, but on occasion I’ve heard things from relatives that belie their humble appearance. It’s easy to see why. They have a lower homicide rate, higher standard of living, and fewer yahoos, as my aunt would say. They would also contend greater racial harmony, but I’m not so sure everyone would agree on that. You have to remember that outside of Quebec Canada has a strong Presbyterian streak that affects their views of others. Which is not to speak badly of Presbyterianism, it’s just a tad judgmental. Those Americans were stupid enough to get caught up in mania, but we’re too cautious, and our banks are too well-regulated, etc. Speculation on my part, but I do see it there.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-08-06 12:46:38

‘We are not the US’ is the national motto of Canada. That we have had a RE bust is seen by some there as proof they will not have one themselves.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-06 12:57:21

Heh. Just like the United States is not Japan and couldn’t possibly find itself mired in a deflationary stagnation because of a political decision not to mark real estate assets to market.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-08-06 14:26:05

They would also contend greater racial harmony, but I’m not so sure everyone would agree on that.

It’s much easier to have racial harmony when social norms/culture are similar between races. You don’t see many people who actually care about skin color…it’s all about social norms.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 18:08:14

“They would also contend greater racial harmony, but I’m not so sure everyone would agree on that.”

Yup. Those Canucks are one big happy family…

Will They Or Won’t They? The Economics Of Quebec Separatism
By Ryan Villarreal
August 2, 2012 4:40 PM EDT

The Canadian province of Quebec is set for an election on Sept. 4 that will pit pro-federalist Liberal Party, which currently holds a majority in the National Assembly, against the pro-separatist Parti Quebecois, whose long-term goal is independence for the French-speaking province.

The centrist Liberals, led by Premier Jean Charest, support Quebec’s status as a federal state within Canada.

The left-leaning PQ has accused the Liberals of allowing Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s right-leaning Conservative Party government in Ottawa to subvert Quebec’s interests on key issues, such as cuts to employment insurance, gun regulation and stricter penalties for criminal offenders in the wake of mass student protests against tuition hikes.

“The street has made a lot of noise,” Charest said, referring to the protests while at a campaign stop in Quebec City. “It’s now time for Quebecers to talk. We must decide the type of society we want to live in.”

“I think it would do Mr. Charest some good to go into the street, to better understand the needs of Quebecers,” PQ opposition leader Pauline Marois said Wednesday. “Canada has become a risk for Quebec.”

 
 
 
Comment by Steve J
2012-08-06 08:46:04

I’m sure Goldman Sachs is heavily invested in Canadian real estate and we will be bailing a lot of banks yet again.

 
 
 
Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 06:51:39

Property taxes.

Who really owns your house?

You? The city? Or the public unions?

I get people approaching me telling me their taxes have gone up 100 or 200 per cent a year. If you’ve owned a small barbershop in the north end for 30 years, for example, you can’t just double the cost of a haircut to make up for it,’ he said. ‘The only alternative for small-business owners is to sell their property. But what kind of a community is Halifax becoming if small businesses can’t afford to operate?’”

 
Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 06:52:54

A 26 year-old wants to get on the property ladder!

Buy NOW or get priced out FOREVER!

“However, the steady climb makes things tougher for home buyers looking to break into the market, especially in Durham where single-family homes make up about 70 per cent of the housing stock. ‘House prices are going up and up, my pay has gone up zero per cent. It’s the same for a lot of people,’ says Matt Clifford, a 26-year-old father of two from Oshawa. ‘We need more places here that someone average can afford.’”

Comment by Blue Skye
2012-08-06 08:30:47

That’s what borrowing is for, and the government is holding down interest rates to help you.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 07:32:57

Who cares about what happens to home prices in our northern neighbor’s real estate market? It’s time to celebrate the bottom in the U.S. market — buy now, or get priced out forever!

Real Estate Recovery: Major Indices Show Housing Market Past Bottom

Increases in housing prices across the nation have created rising expectations that the U.S real estate market has risen out of its low point and is on its way toward recovery. Low inventory, interest rates, and low prices have been driving significant numbers of sales for the past year, but now we are seeing price increases in almost all of the major metropolitan areas nationwide. Most analysts would agree that an extended period of price increases could significantly curb distressed sales and foreclosures in the coming years.

From Realtor Mag:

Recent housing indexes have shown single-family home prices are on the rise, providing more evidence that the “bottom” of the market is already behind.

“We’re wiping out just about all of the decline,” Joel Naroff, chief economist at Naroff Economic Advisors, told NBC.com about recent housing data showing home prices inching up. “It indicates the market has turned the corner on the pricing side.”

Some recent housing indexes suggest that the “bottom” of the market was reached in January 2012. Since that time, housing prices have been picking up in many housing markets.

But “the turnaround in home prices was unexpected,” says Patrick Newport, an economist with IHS Global Insight. “The conventional wisdom in February, following that landmark agreement [of the $26 billion mortgage settlement with the nation’s five largest banks], was that we would see a surge in foreclosures of some size that would lead to lower home prices. This surge never materialized and home prices have turned.”

Newport points to several signs of a housing market on the mend. For one, housing starts are up, after reaching a low in the fourth quarter of 2011. Also, he says the FHFA monthly House Price Index shows a 3.7 percent increase in May year-over-year, which he notes is higher than inflation and “means that real housing wealth, a consumer spending driver, was also up.”

The increase in home prices is also leading to a fewer number of home owners who are underwater on their mortgages, owing more on their mortgage than their home is currently worth. The number of underwater home owners fell from 12.1 million at the end of 2011 to 11.4 million at the end of the first quarter this year, according to CoreLogic data.

Seattle Homes, LLC: – Sam DeBord, Managing Broker, Realtor
Coldwell Banker Seattle: Coldwell Banker Danforth & Associates

Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-06 10:51:02

Yeah, that’s once again become a universal belief. I saw that even Warren Buffett thinks so, which validates it for that segment of the American public who views investment gurus as gods.

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 07:36:02

‘If you have a 25-year amortization rate with 4.5 per cent interest, you’ll be paying at least three times the actual cost of the house. So at 40 years, it’s crazy.’

It’s a mania, folks, and not even past the denial stage just yet…

Comment by oxide
2012-08-06 14:07:08

Triple the price of the house? I’m not so sure.

To check, I ran some Bankrate amortization numbers: Assume a $375K mortgage principle on a $400K house ($25K down):

25-year mortgage at 4.5%:
$375,000 principle + $250,311 interest
You pay 1.56x the actual cost of the house.

40-year mortgage at 4.5%
$375,000 principle + $434,213 interest
You pay 2.02x the actual cost of the house.
Where is Chris Stewart getting his “triple?” Even if you put no money down it would be tough to get to triple.

Now let’s look at 1970’s interest rates:
30-year mortgage at 12.5%. Also assume $80K down because back then you couldn’t get a mortgage without 20% down.
$320,000 principle + $909,480 interest
You pay 3.07 the actual cost of the house.
Aha, there’s your triple. From the 70’s.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 18:15:31

Oxide, your point is taken (and I checked your 40-year calculation and agreed with it), except that anyone whose mortgage started at 12.5% in the 1970s could have refi’d at lower rates by the mid-1980s, and inflation drastically reduced the real value of the monthly over the course of the 1970s.

By contrast, those who sign up for the 2X principle repayment plan most likely will never have the chance to refinance, as rates have probably reached their effective limit. Plus if deflation materializes, they may end up paying more than 2X initial principle value in real value.

Good thing to always remember: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-08-06 19:33:25

‘You pay 1.56x the actual cost of the house’

The house costs several times more now than the 70’s. So I can buy a 300k house in Flagstaff and buy the lender 450k of house? How does that stack up to 30-40k houses back then? Talk about missing the point. I’d be paying 750k!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 19:56:59

“The house costs several times more now than the 70’s.”

Fair enough. But what if interest rates stay low and house prices stay high forever? Or housing prices only go up from here for the next several years, exactly as the Goldman Sachs analysts predict?

It gets very confusing when you throw ongoing efforts to artificially inflate prices into the mix of factors.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-08-06 07:38:22

“Ms. Kotris would like to see more attention paid to unsecured debt, such as credit cards and unsecured lines of credit, which has boomed in recent years and may be the real financial elephant in the room.”

And, if the Canadian experience is anything like the one here in the good old US of A, watch that unsecured debt being written off right and left.

Comment by 2banana
2012-08-06 08:01:01

Tough call to make.

Here in the states - people changed and stopped paying their mortgages but KEPT paying their credit cards. To the amazement of the wall street bankers.

And, if the Canadian experience is anything like the one here in the good old US of A, watch that unsecured debt being written off right and left.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-08-06 09:31:43

In some countries, CC debt isn’t unsecured.

 
 
Comment by 45north
2012-08-06 15:20:28

Blue Skye: Maybe the Canadian banks will actively seek CMHC and let the taxpayer foot the bill. Do they have to foreclose to do that?

just guessing but I’d say that CMHC would say that the bank must pursue all its options before CMHC would consider a claim

housing news from the west coast:
http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/content/vancouver-housing-full-correction-mode-implications-canadian-banks

a crash in Vancouver house prices has the potential to be a major macro event that will impact Canadian banks.

Jim Flaherty , Minister of Finance announced tighter mortgage rules just as Parliament recessed for the summer. Look for the housing collapse in Vancouver to be a hot topic when Parliament reconvenes in September.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-06 18:02:12

“‘We have had good activity in sales of homes over $1 million, and that was a bit surprising,’ said association president Doug Singleton. ‘The current very low mortgage rates are positive for real estate. I think they are really trying to encourage people to buy with these rates.’”

What’s in store for the future valuations on these homes currently selling for north of $1 million when interest rates return to anything like normal levels? Or is it different this time, with interest rates destined to stay at generational lows forever?

 
Comment by Stellaralliances
2012-08-07 08:10:41

If You want it, pay the price for it. We’ll see who is laughing when demand rise again. A lot of people still wants to buy but just taking a wait and see approach. They can’t hold for too long. They have to buy. Price will swing up again. With the new rules, it is practical to put my power buying into practice. Join forces with other to buy and share land. Price will not decline.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-08-07 09:19:48

That may be the perfect bubble post. Thank you.

it is practical to put my power buying into practice.

Go for it!

 
 
Comment by Hal Horvath
2012-08-09 20:27:52

As soon as I read the name of the mortgage company “Mortgage Architects” I suddenly knew the bell is tolling for the Canadian market.

That’s a toppy name.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post