Bits Bucket for August 14, 2012
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Good morning!
“The stories white guys tell themselves
Joan Didion wrote, “We tell ourselves stories in order to live.” I’d modify that slightly for this presidential election year and say, we tell ourselves stories in order to vote. Which is why Mitt Romney maintains a huge lead in the polls among blue-collar white men.”
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/the-stories-white-guys-tell-themselves/1245017
yeah, white guys are evil…got it…
Not all white guys, just ignorant racist white guys. Read some of the comments to that article, you’ll see what I mean.
The comments are heated because the only myth is that you can rely on someone else to take care of you.
I lost a house to foreclosure just a few short years ago. I’ve stuck with my business, I’ve pushed harder in every aspect of my life, and you know what? I’m successful now. I could have easily turned to the government or a low wage job. I didn’t and as a result life is pretty good right now.
“The stories white guys tell themselves”
A racist story garners racist comments…imagine that.
well our colored president hasn’t said a word about the 30,000 black on black murders committed on his watch, so maybe a white guy can.
The President is president over all. Besides, I imagine he is pretty preoccupied with his own murdering.
Why do you think he chose Biden….???
Post test.
Oops. Wrong sig today.
From the article.
“White men have been fed the myth of the rags-to-riches, self-made man, the quintessential American narrative that says hard work and perseverance will equate to success.”
Yeah, that’s it. Just sit back and let the government take care of you cuz we know that they “only want to help us”. All that hard work just gets you nothing so why even try.
Sorry to tell you all but hard work and perseverance “do” equate to success and it doesn’t matter what color your skin is.
In fact, if you are willing to get up early and go to work every day, there are many jobs waiting for you. I talk to small business men almost daily and you would be surprised how many are just trying to find someone that show up daily.
No, hard work and perseverance sometimes lead to success. There is no guarantee. How good a chance you have is related to a lot of things (native intelligence, how you were raised, connections, location, etc.) that have nothing to do with hard work and/or perseverance.
As someone who has been to the top and the bottom, I can tell you this is the truth.
One of those rare, absolute ones.
So yes, most these realize, even on just a gut level, that hard work, JUST BY ITSELF, is a suckers game.
Anyone who thinks their success is totally self made is an insufferable fool.
No, hard work and perseverance sometimes lead to success. There is no guarantee.
There are three types of capital:
* Monetary Capital (self-explanatory)
* Knowledge Capital (education & experience)
* Social Capital (i.e. influential connections, family, friends, mentors)
Those who reach the highest levels of success have access to all three of the above. Work ethic alone won’t guarantee success, however, hard work combined with at least 2 of the 3 types of capital will allow anyone to achieve some level of success.
The one certainty I have is that relying on the government, or anyone else for that matter (including corporations), for one’s survival, never mind success in life is a recipe for disaster…
The one certainty I have is that relying on the government, or anyone else for that matter (including corporations), for one’s survival, never mind success in life is a recipe for disaster…
What percentage of the population actually wants this, and/or doesn’t know this?
IMO, this strawman was created out of Katrina. Yeah, when my city melts down, assuming every other city isn’t doing the same at the same time, I expect some fed support. But I know not one human who wants, on a day to day basis, to be a ward of the state. Not one. That’s different than saying they don’t exist, btw.
What percentage of the population actually wants this, and/or doesn’t know this?
Considering the continued move towards socialism in this country, I would say quite a few don’t know this.
But I know not one human who wants, on a day to day basis, to be a ward of the state.
Bull. You hear it every day, with arguments about Social Security, Medicare, Minimum Wage, Affordable housing, Disability, Welfare, SNAP. You hear it every time someone says “The Norwegians and Swedes have Cradle to Grave Socialism and look how happy they are.” on this blog.
Sorry, but from what I can tell, too many have fallen into the trap that government should provide…
too many have fallen into the trap that government should provide…
“Provide”? This is looking through a narrow prism. USA’s SocSec, Medicare and things like universal healthcare in Canada are funded through taxes. They are PAID FOR by taxes. So the people are not getting something for “free” “provided” by government. They are getting something they, as a society, have paid for. And as we see with Canada, France etc, governments are much more efficient at administrating health-care than America’s nutball “private” system.
the continued move towards socialism
Yea right. That’s funny
Definition of SOCIALISM
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
They are PAID FOR by taxes. So the people are not getting something for “free” “provided” by government.
You’re discussing the efficiency of entitlements, whereas I’m railing against the continued move towards reliance upon entitlements. And I never said they are getting something for free… someone always pays, it just isn’t those receiving the benefits in many cases.
Yea right. That’s funny
I don’t find it funny at all. In fact, per the definition you posted:
“any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods”
What do you call Fannie/Freddie? What do you call TARP or the bailout of AIG? What do you call the bailout of GM and Chrysler? What do you call a government run Healthcare system like Canada or France? What do you call the Utility or Insurance sector? What does it mean when the government mandates that I buy a product from a company or pay a “tax”? Government controlling the means of production and government administration of the distribution of goods.
Do you deny that Europe is more “socialist” than the US? Are we not heading down the road of Europe?
And the definition you left out, per Merriam-Webster:
socialism: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and
So, is the US ready for Marx’s “Great Society” yet? My grandfather fought the Communists in Korea, came back with severe PTSD after risking his life. He is rolling in his grave to see what we are becoming…
He is rolling in his grave to see what we are becoming… -
(”a winner take all” crony-capitalist perversion of capitalism where “socialist” Canada and much of Europe rewards hard work more than does America.)
Do you deny that Europe is more “socialist” than the US?
(and has greater social upward mobility than does the US)
I’m railing against the continued move towards reliance upon entitlements.
(while not railing against the “winner-take-all”, middle-class crushing policies and continuing massive wealth inequality that precipitate the entitlements you rail against)
What do you call a government run Healthcare system like Canada or France?
Much better and more efficient than America’s system and more friendly to capitalism and entrepreneurship.
Definition of SOCIALISM
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
Don’t confuse them with the facts. Socialism is what Rush Limbaugh and the talking heads at Fox News says it is, which from what I’ve seen is any system that doesn’t nurture a society of Robber Barons.
and more friendly to capitalism and entrepreneurship.
But not to “American capitalism” . You know, the kind where you create mostly menial jobs and hire P/T workers and pay them minimum wage. Imagine if Retail America (a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate America) had to pay a healthcare tax for their workers. The CEOs might not get that 8 figure bonus anymore, and that’s unAmerican.
Considering the continued move towards socialism in this country, I would say quite a few don’t know this.
Yep, depends on the definition doesn’t it and what is or isn’t an “entitlement”? My, how the narrative has changed. My Reagan loving “conservative” parents, and others their age sure loved their “socialist” programs and now they’re feeding me the line of how Socialism is ruining the country. Good grief.
When challenged on this, they feed me the narrative of how this has actually been happening for 200 years. Interestingly, I got the same story from a co-worker who they’ve never met. I wonder where they’re getting their talking points. And I wonder who’s paying those people to spread those talking points.
Yeah, I agree, but then I thought that if you never give up, you will succeed eventually.
I am not talking about a guaranteed $100k job, but success in that you can live and retire with comfort.
” How good a chance you have is related to a lot of things (native intelligence, how you were raised, connections, location, etc.) that have nothing to do with hard work and/or perseverance.”
Connections and location are part of the work in finding a job as is perseverance. My wife is Hispanic, one of seven. Her family moved here from Texas when she was 3 or 4 and the children at that time only knew how to speak Spanish. Her dad took any job he could and her mom stayed home. Up until the day they died they spoke very little English. These first four kids did not have the dual language in school and learned the language. My wife was put in dumb-bell classes because of language barriers but quickly changed over to standard classes. She had many jobs until the age of 27 when she went to work for a large organization; started at the bottom and ended up with a six figure salary with only a high school diploma. When eight months pregnant she had to go to D.C. for some training, with the birth of our son she was breast feeding and had to go to Denver for conferencing and took our 4 month old son with her. When she had a chance for a promotion to the bay area she went and I stayed at home taking care of the kids and working full time as a Forensic Toxicologist. You do what you have to do to get where you want to go. We taught that to our kids. One started here in Marina and went to L.A. with the same organization before coming back here with the same organization. One went to St. Louis, Missouri, to Bakersfield, CA to Beverly Hills,CA.
“I talk to small business men almost daily and you would be surprised how many are just trying to find someone that show up daily.”
I’ve seen people quit decent jobs within a month of starting. I’ve also seen companies that won’t pay enough to keep people.
Where are these employers…i cant find them….they always hire the dumb ones time and time again
That’s because the dumb ones work cheap and don’t threaten the boss.
check this out..yeah i know him;
http://www.facebook.com/howard.bloom
I hear there are plenty of oil jobs in North Dakota and West Texas.
Sorry to tell you all but hard work and perseverance “do” equate to success especially if you live in a “socialist” country with more unions, less wealth inequality, universal healthcare and higher taxes on the rich.
“What is clear is that in at least one regard American mobility is exceptional. . . . [W]here we stand out is our limited upward mobility from the bottom.”
The downward path of upward mobility
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-downward-path-of-upward-mobility/2011/11/09/gIQAegpS6M_story.html
The most comprehensive comparative study, done last year by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, found that “upward mobility from the bottom” — Daniels’s definition — was significantly lower in the United States than in most major European countries, including Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Denmark. Another study, by the Institute for the Study of Labor in Germany in 2006, uses other metrics and concludes that “the U.S. appears to be exceptional in having less rather than more upward mobility.”
A 2010 Economic Mobility Project study found that in almost every respect, the United States has a more rigid socioeconomic class structure than Canada. More than a quarter of U.S. sons of top-earning fathers remain in the top tenth of earners as adults, compared to 18 percent of similarly situated Canadian sons. U.S. sons of fathers in the bottom tenth of earners are more likely to remain in the bottom tenth of earners as adults than are Canadian sons (22 percent vs. 16 percent). And U.S. sons of fathers in the bottom third of earnings distribution are less likely to make it into the top half as adults than are sons of low-earning Canadian fathers.
From each according to one’s ability. To each according to one’s need. That about right, Comrade?
Comrade?
You really can’t handle the truth that USA’s capitalist system is inferior to other forms in regards to “pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps. It must blow your mind. lol I don’t think you get out much in the world.
“upward mobility from the bottom” was significantly lower in the United States than in most major European countries, including Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Denmark.
ou really can’t handle the truth that USA’s capitalist system is inferior to other forms in regards to “pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps.
Right. So you’re saying Margaret Thatcher was wrong?
Prime Minister Thatcher said, “…and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them.”
I don’t think you get out much in the world.
Ah, the old “when you can’t beat your opponent’s argument, discredit and insult the source”. Good luck with that Comrade.
You really can’t handle the truth that USA’s capitalist system is inferior to other forms
I prefer to think that our current system isn’t the “USA’s capitalist system”. The question is can it be recovered?
You really can’t handle the truth that USA’s capitalist system is inferior to other forms in regards to “pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps.
Go ahead and finish the statement.
“that USA’s capitalist system is inferior to other forms [like Europe's Socialism or China's Communism].”
Never mind, I finished it for you, Comrade. BTW, here’s a quote from Wikipedia on the economy of Brazil:
Brazil, together with Mexico, has been at the forefront of the Latin American multinationals phenomenon by which, thanks to superior technology and organization, local companies have successfully turned global. These multinationals have made this transition notably by investing massively abroad, in the region and beyond, and thus realizing an increasing portion of their revenues internationally.
With still high levels of inequality, though it has diminished in the last years, the Brazilian economy has become one of the major economies of the world. According to Forbes 2011, Brazil has the 8th largest number of billionaires in the world, a number much larger than what is found in other Latin American countries, and even ahead of Japan.
So, even the much-vaunted capitalist economic system of Brazil has many 1% (more than Japan), Multinational Corporations, and economic inequality… Maybe they should try Communism, Comrade.
The bullcrap in this country is piled so high most people will NEVER see the truth and thus, we will never solve our problems until they are solved for us in a way we really aren’t going to like.
The last 3 recessions are just a taste of what will come. Each one progressively worse with shorter duration between.
Then there’s the global warming…
The bullcrap in this country is piled so high most people will NEVER see the truth
My 6yo son and I watched Shark Week on discovery channel last night. In one documentary, Great White’s migrated from Seal Island offshore of South Africa to the shallow reefs along the coast of South Africa. The question posed was why do the sharks migrate? The answer turned out that along the shallow bottom near shore were abundant numbers of smaller sharks. The 15-20 ft Great Whites left the feeding ground of Seal Island for easier prey in shallow water.
My son’s first thought was:
“Is the Great White going to protect the smaller sharks?” I had to explain that the Great White was a predator who needed to eat vast amounts to sustain itself, and that because it was an apex predator, even other sharks, including young sharks of other species, were prey.
My son’s innocent nature and tendency towards fair play that we tried to instill rebelled at the idea of the enormous Great White shark feeding on smaller sharks. It was a lesson in absolute truth of nature, and a lesson in life.
So, even the much-vaunted capitalist economic system of Brazil has many 1% (more than Japan), Multinational Corporations, and economic inequality…
Brazil would be a very hard country for someone overly dogmatic like you to understand. A wiki post on one aspect of it does not cover Brazil. Brazil is even hard for an open-minded and free thinking person to understand. Brazil is a country with a working balance of capitalism and social programs interacting together currently in a positive manner. Brazil has multi-nationals, billionaires side by side with strong protectionism and socialized medicine. Complicated huh?
The most successful countries in the world balance capitalism and strong social programs. (what you would knee-jerk label “socialism” or “communism”) This is a fact even though the fact puts you in a truculent little tizzy every time.
It was a lesson in absolute truth of nature, and a lesson in life that was apparently lost on you.
Not at all. I’ve learned the lesson quite well. It is you who seems determined to ignore the lessons nature provides.
Shall I give you a free lesson? Here it is: Life isn’t fair
Life isn’t fair….It is you who seems determined to ignore the lessons (The Great White Shark’s life) provides.
Equating a Great White Shark’s reality to modern societies, governments and even capitalism is overly simplistic and shows an ignoring and even ignorance to what those things are all about and even why they are about them.
If the Great White Shark’s reality was a template for our society, there wouldn’t have been a need for the Constitution of the United States.
It’s called a metaphor, Rio. Do try and keep up…
Don’t ignore the simple fact that no matter how complicated society becomes, the simple premise that “life isn’t fair” will always be true. The Communists learned this the hard way, even with their “classless society”.
The most successful countries in the world balance capitalism and strong social programs.
Uh huh.
Last I saw, the US was still the largest “Capitalist” economy in the word, to Brazil’s 5th or 6th.
Last I heard, the US had Welfare, SNAP, Subsidized Housing, Free Public Education, Unemployment, Disability, Social Security, Medicare, etc. Seems the US has quite a few entitlement and social programs going for it.
So why again are you campaigning against the US system of Capitalism? Why again are you pushing an agenda of Socialism? You have an agenda here Rio, let’s get it out in the open…
I think its more like dog eat dog than shark eat shark .But
a lot of sharks are eating little dogs also .
But one would like to think that the model for the advancement of humans would be that we could for once and for all rise above shark eat shark ,or dog eat dog ,and stop modeling ourselves after the wild animals.
It’s called a metaphor, Rio.
A self-serving metaphor because it ignores a more important aspect addressed below.
the simple premise that “life isn’t fair” will always be true.
So what? That’s all you got? “Life isn’t fair?? It does not stop at “life isn’t fair” and never has. A big part of the whole struggle of mankind was and is to make life MORE FAIR. America was founded to make life more fair. You think the Pilgrims just threw up their hands and said “we’ll just stay in England and be persecuted because “life’s not fair”? (Because of your shark story?) No. Wrong. Laws, regulations and rules are made to make life more fair.
Structuring economies to share a society’s productivity gains MORE equally than does the USA is thought to be more fair by more Americans than not.
The Communists learned this the hard way,
Learned what? That “life is not fair”? Communism fell because life isn’t fair? Communism was fair but life wasn’t?? You have no point here. I think Communism fell because of human’s drive for more fairness and not because “Life’s Not Fair”.
America was founded to make life more fair.
Wrong. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness”. No where in that statement does it say “and fairness”.
The freedom to pursue happiness. Liberty. Socialism and Communism don’t support either of these premises.
So why again are you campaigning against the US system of Capitalism?
Because it is crony-corrupt and enriches too few for the amount of wealth produced as a society and country. America’s wealth and income inequality have gotten out of control and way out of America’s historical proportion.
You have an agenda here Rio,
LOL. No sh!t?? You must be some kind of a frickin’ genius! One of my “agendas” is to show the dangers and results of 40 years of the implementation of YOUR agenda. My “agenda” is to point out your overly simplistic thinking on complicated issues. My agenda is to point out your strawman arguments that weaken the points that you are attempting to make.
I think its more like dog eat dog than shark eat shark .But
a lot of sharks are eating little dogs also .
And then there’s the Vampire Squid, arriving just in time to dispose of what’s left.
“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness”. No where in that statement does it say “and fairness”.
USA was not founded largely on the concept of and the desire for fairness? We have 4th of July because we were being treated fairly by England? Do you know what words mean? “Establish justice”? “No taxation without representation”? The “Stamp Act” was not thought unfair? Where do you get your ideas? Why do you distort American History to fit your Dogma? You are not very good at it.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Life isn’t fair
Which basically justifies everything imaginable.
“Some guy just poured acid on a bunch of babies in a daycare!”
“Hey! Life isn’t fair!”
Life isn’t fair. That doesn’t mean our forefathers (or their decendants) should be subject to tyranny or despotism. That was the impetus for revolt, not your self-serving wealth redistribution agenda.
And no, nowhere in the Constitution does it say “to make a more fair union”. The closest it gets may be “promote the general welfare”, but that Is a far cry from ” to promote a fairer distribution of wealth”.
Nice try though. At least we know your agenda here: promote the redistribution of wealth to the prolatariat and your socialist ideals.
Life isn’t fair. That doesn’t mean our forefathers (or their decendants) should be subject to tyranny or despotism.
Thank you. Whether you admit it or not, you have just made a little bit of progress in your posts, because America’s recent unregulated capitalism HAS led to economic tyranny and despotism against the middle-class. And you indirectly indicated this tyranny has violated the fairness aspect of the spirit of the American Constitution.
It’s complicated and is in conflict to your rigid dogma but there it is.
At least we know your agenda here: promote the redistribution of wealth to the prolatariat and your socialist ideals.
Rather, my “agenda” is to “promote the redistribution of wealth” so the middle-class can be unsubjugated to the economic tyranny and despotism being inflicted upon it by the PTB. (of which you have unknowingly but so eloquently just railed against)
There is nothing you have written that could lead me to believe you can comprehend what I have just said, however I think that there could be more to you than just your amusing name calling and juvenile logic.
It’s not a myth, you can get a job that will make you a lot of money if you make the right decisions in life and strive towards a better position. The thing that is a “myth” is that it’s all hard work; it’s not, it’s a good education, credentials, and, probably most importantly, a morally ambiguous view of the world. I’d hazard a guess that just about everyone on this board could, if they wanted to, become a RE agent and, 1-2 years from now, have a 100K+ income. But you need to be very morally flexible. Same thing with lots of sales roles, you can make 100K easily in many different types of enterprise sales. Requirements are typically a college degree with a good (but not great) GPA, and a willingness to cut a lot of throats on your way to the top, including selling current employees and customers down the river for personal profit.
The real challenge is finding a 100K job that doesn’t involve prostituting yourself or your values. I can’t think of one person I know who makes that level of income that isn’t moderately to severely morally compromised. Say one thing, do another, take advantage of others lack of knowledge, ruthless advancement without regard for your fellow employees. That; unfortunately (IMHO) has become American business.
^^^^^^^^^^^
What Overtaxed said.
I know a whole lot of doctors and scientists who aren’t morally challenged. A couple of pharmacists, booksellers, writers, ranchers, and yes even (!) businesspeople.
Hard work and perseverance may not make you your millions, but they’ll probably leave you a whole lot better off than no hard work or perseverance at all.
This is true as well.
But more and more I see luck as playing the biggest factor.
…followed closely by connections.
smarts helps too
“…luck as playing the biggest factor…luck…smarts…”
May as well add good parents to the mix.
But all of the factors are pretty much covered by the congenital lottery, no?
aye. all of ‘em.
You must be trolling for a response. I run an honest business with traditional values and integrity. Every customer is treated just as I would treat my own family.
Honestly you don’t have to step over ANYONE to get ahead in business. When people are treated better than they expect they send others to be treated the same way and it just goes on and on.
Not everyone takes the Walmart approach to business.
It is tempting to discard morality from time to time. The gains by doing so are the myth, IMO. Some deals, some jobs, some careers come to an abrupt stop if one does not discard morality, but that is not the end of the line for the individual.
Tilting at windmills is usually futile, but one can succeed in business without becoming filth. I’ve changed jobs quite a few times. As life goes on, it becomes easier to discern compromising situations from a distance. I might have made more money going along with lots of crap along the way, maybe not. I’ve seen lots of guys ruin their careers toying with corruption. Besides, all the money just slides through one’s fingers usually.
Andy,
How big is your business (yearly revenue)? My discourse above is more about “big business” (500-1000 employees). I’ve worked for smaller companies in the past, and yes, I’ve had a very similar experience to what you outlined above. Morally sound business practices, with an eye towards the customer and making sure that they are happy. Now, that’s certainly NOT universal among small businesses, but, at the same time, it’s not unheard of.
My comment above is more for directed at people looking to get ahead in big business; I’ve worked for several (and currently a Fortune 50), and have found, universally, that a moral view of the world won’t get you far in these big companies. They are looking for “max profit following the letter of the law”, not to make their customers happy, or even to work in their customer’s interests. Take a look at the comments on Goldman and their “muppets”. That attitude, in my experience, is just the way that big companies operate; not something unique to Goldman. If you want to make “big bucks” in the corporate world, you better be prepared to make some very morally questionable calls.
I am a small business. I’m not running a mega-firm and have no desire to do so. I want to provide a comfortable living for my family and the families of those who I employ.
They are looking for “max profit following the letter of the law”, not to make their customers happy
Here is a great example:
Oracle will not be supporting Itanium processors on its next release of its database software.
Guess who ships lots of Itanium based systems: HP. Oracle customers with new HP servers are howling mad. I expect that Oracle will eventually give these people “deals” to trade in the HPs for Solaris/Sparc boxes.
I work for a mega-business. I’m pretty morally flexible. And I’m looking to get out of it because, even for me, it’s gotten “too dirty”. I want to go back to smaller business, even if it’s a pay cut; I have to be able to live with the choices that I make, and, this is just beyond what I’m comfortable with.
And yes, this is a company that everyone on this board has heard of, and no, it’s not a “financial services” company. I can only imagine the level of “dirt” at a global banking company, I’d probably throw up on my shoes. I think the company I work for, compared to others, is probably “pretty clean”.
Oracle will not be supporting Itanium processors on its next release of its database software.
Sounds like just plain-old good business strategy to me: Cut off your competition at the knees and lock your customers into a single vendor, Oracle. If I was HP, I would be getting quite cozy with Microsoft and EMC and pushing to optimize SQL Server solutions on my Itanuim processor-equipped servers. Then I would ensure my Services Consulting group had a clear migration path from Oracle to SQL Server for every one of our big hardware customers.
Sucks being a hardware and consulting vendor in a consolidated hardware/software/solutions world, i.e. the current state of Enterprise Solutions. Too bad HP has had no Enterprise vision to speak of for the last decade.
I guess being a consolidated Oracle customer has a competitive advantage after all…
“Sounds like just plain-old good business strategy to me”
You can bet your bottom dollar on that.
But all those customers with Itanium boxes are pizzed!
Indeed. Reminds me of the old saw in IT “No one ever got fired for buying IBM”.
Seems like Oracle may be the new hotness for career-conscious IT managers going forward…
Overtaxed
Your comments are interesting and frame a Canusa lifetime.
I think hard work has to be augmented with creative think time. The ability to measure risk and the guts to take those risks. The drive to see your plan through - funny how many bad decisions are fixed by hard driving.
Education and experience are taken for granted for success. Being a good salesperson is inherited, not something that can be learned. Being a natural leader and being able to focus on both sides of the plan and issue tough decisions on a dime.
All these “traits” were honoured in my earlier years.
But now I see owner/managers who are stretching beyond an honest scheme whereas before I never saw one.
At 70 I have decided not to participate with their shenanigans and have seen my volumes go down as a result. I am an accountant but also own either part or all of several businesses - mostly in the oil and gas area.
And yes, we emloy many more than 500. And still remember the climb from only 5.
My fellow workers and I are very tired when we go to sleep at night - very proud and sleep extremely well.
Overtaxed ….. You bring up a really good point about American business today . What I liked about America when it was at it’s best is people could have productive jobs that they had some pride in knowing that they were giving value for the dollars they earned . This dog eat dog ,be like a Wall Street opportunist where someone wins and someone will lose is not a win’/win situation.In fact it’s more like the mentality of a criminal ,
IMHO ,the Wall Street bizarre casino mentality or Monopoly greed where someone gets ripped off so someone else wins has morphed into the Politics and psychology of the population .
Somewhere in this country there was a change to an entitled society. I don’t think you can blame Wall Street or politicians as much as you can blame a culture of trying to keep up with the Jones’.
A society that puts a price on everything, values nothing.
I don’t think you can blame Wall Street or politicians as much as you can blame a culture of trying to keep up with the Jones’.
I think you CAN blame the machine more than the public because the Wall Street/Political/Corporate machine promotes the “keep up with the Jones’” theme while it diminishes peoples ability to do so, by not sharing the benefits of our increased productivity.
Promoting, at the same time, both keeping up with the Jones’ and massively increasing wealth-inequality will always lead to big problems.
Yes but a society with values doesn’t get caught up in such things.
You can always tell the communist in the room because the blame lies with the “evil” capitalist and his crony politician and not with the individual.
If only they had “shared the wealth”… or in this case “sharing the benefits of our increased productivity.”
Give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he’ll eat for a lifetime.
[Socialist version] Take the fish from the man who knows how to fish and give it to the man who is too lazy to learn how to fish, eventually both men die of starvation.
You can always tell the communist in the room because….
lol. Should I say something like “you can always tell the weak-minded in the room when they start name calling”? No, because that would make me weak-minded. But your world view gets rattled easily.
the blame lies with the “evil” capitalist and his crony politician and not with the individual
Your dogma distorts reality. I said “I think you CAN blame the machine more than the public” The key word here is “MORE”. Your strawman above does not recognize degrees.
If only they had “shared the wealth”
Exactly. Countries who “share” wealth MORE equally than does the USA have greater upward social mobility. (Do not let your dogma lead to your ignoring the word “more”.)
Give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he’ll eat for a lifetime.
(Unless the owner of the waters takes too big of a cut.)
I didn’t realize labeling someone a Communist was “name calling”. Is it not a fair description of your beliefs? Are you not extolling the benefits of Socialism over Capitalism? Is not Socialism on the path to Communism, or was Karl Marx wrong [as well as Margaret Thatcher]?
Just looking to clarify what economic system you support and claiming is vastly superior to the US…
or was Karl Marx wrong
So you think Marx was right?
I didn’t realize labeling someone a Communist was “name calling”. Is it not a fair description of your beliefs? Are you not extolling the benefits of Socialism over Capitalism?
No. You are thinking too simplistic, rigid and dogmatic - as if the world were a propaganda cartoon of the 50’s.
See my post below at 13:59:56 on “protecting liberty” for a fair description on some of my beliefs.
It’s complicated.
I’ve seen lots of your posts and most are ridiculous. I can summarize your views.
Everybody is equal. Government should dictate what gets done so everyone gets their “fair share” and you can replace any person with any other person and get the same result.
You make mass comparisons of WHITE, Mostly Christian societies and their “systems” and then claim that the same system would work anywhere else. The comparisons are absurd.
Germany is rich because it is filled mostly with Germans. It wouldn’t matter if they had communism, socialism or fascsim, they would still do better than most and would work for social justice among themselves.
The EURO experiment should have shown you that Greeks are not Germans and Northern Europeans, by and large, are much more industrious than their neighbors to the south.
The “reasons” don’t matter, because no one will admit there is a “difference” in the races and cultures.
There is also a great deal of western civilization that most countries of the world have benefited from, including Brazil. A large population of Germans migrated there, too. Lucky you.
Why don’t you compare CUBAN communism, or North Korea, or Argentina?? Hummm?
Stop taking white dominant countries and claiming their “system” is better. The people ARE the system. They work harder, smarter and longer.
Here in the US we have a huge RACIAL problem that is masked over by “equal rights”, and equality programs to make sure the parasites get to take as much as the producers. It should make you happy.
That is the REAL fiscal problem with the US of A. Decades of funding illiterate fat slobs to destroy our schools, our cities, and the society……and you blame…..”capitalism”.
I’ve seen lots of your posts and most are ridiculous.
lol. Right. You just don’t like my politics. Too bad. My positions have much more in common with most Americans than your slanted saws do.
.and you can replace any person with any other person and get the same result
That’s moronic.
You make mass comparisons of WHITE, Mostly Christian societies and their “systems”
I’m not one of the HBB’s resident racists. I don’t think America is hobbled by our people of color but I do think we are hobbled by racism.
Here in the US we have a huge RACIAL problem
That often expresses itself in the hugely biased and hateful contents of your posts.
……and you blame…..”capitalism”.
Wrong. Many forms of capitalism are great. America’s current form that you defend sucks right now. But I know, it’s because of black people right?
Stop taking white dominant countries and claiming their “system” is better.
Why not if they are better in certain aspects? Sweden does not have less wealth inequality just because they are white. It’s the system. America needs more of that kind of system.
no one will admit there is a “difference” in the races and cultures
I point out Brazilian cultural differences all the time. One of my degrees is in Cultural Anthropology. The other is in a hard science. I live in a foreign culture. I live it. I see it. But I am not a racist.
+ 1
Diogenes gets it.
Diogenes gets it.
lol Really? What does Diogenes “get”?
WhiteMan’sQuarterly?
All right, that was kind of funny…
“The only thing you need in order to be successful in this world is ignorance…and confidence.” –Mark Twain
I personally lack both.
They often go hand in hand.
SHUT UP YOU DAMN COMMIE!
(hey, fake it till you make it, right?
)
He’s got the racist vote, that’s for sure…
You don’t consider the black racists that will vote again for Obama to be racists? Only white racists are racists?
Point taken.
Travyon brought out the black racist element and even i was shocked at how many there were.
Justice For Trayvon® will be achieved by looting Foot Locker.
Trayvon? No, OJ.
The self-made man myth needs to be exploded. It dangerously serves the interests of the top 1 percent. Hard work is an important component of success, but it’s not the only one. Government plays a pivotal role, from making college affordable to protecting workers from exploitation.
1% evil. Government protector of the common man good. And government can make college affordable too [according to the article]. Which is why college tuition has increased 498.31% since 1986.
Here’s an alternative: Socialism is evil. Socialism is one step away from Communism [per Karl Marx]. Government can’t make anything more affordable. Hard work is just one element necessary to success.
1% evil
This is a strawman and an unoriginal, false-argument talking point parroted from AM radio.
Government can’t make anything more affordable.
This is a classic example of dogma distorting reality. It also represents the classic trait of rigid dogma precluding one from acknowledging degrees and exceptions.
You saying “Government can’t make anything more affordable”. proves the point. “Anything”? Governments can’t make “anything” more affordable? That is utter nonsense. Canada spends about half as much per person on healthcare than does America and the VA’s cost per patient procedure is lower than Blue Cross’s. In health-care, governments can and DO make it more affordable. Is your head exploding?
$30 TRILLION in Wall St bailouts and you say our system isn’t broken?
Prisons and graveyards are full of people with this level of denial.
Socialism is not the answer to crony capitalism. More socialism is not the answer to government bailouts of Wall St.
And yes, there are graveyards full of people in Siberia, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and various countries in South America who realized too late how evil Communism was.
Socialism is not the answer to crony capitalism.
And things like strong bank regulation, Citizens United overturned, higher pay for workers, a public heath care option, private unions and higher taxes on the rich are not what most thinking Americans consider “socialism”. The far-right has been programed to have this knee-jerk reaction but the average American no.
Only a socialist could say in the same statement: higher pay for workers, public health care option and higher taxes on the rich are not socialist.
It doesn’t get much more socialist than that… Ask France.
Want to know what the answer to Turkey’s statement is Rio? Here’s a hint… It’s not more socialist redistribution of wealth and government control.
Here’s the second lesson of the day: allow failure as capitalism depends upon it.
And here’s a bonus: follow the rule of law and prosecute those that break the law.
See that? Capitalism fixed, without crushing the creative and entrepreneurial capitalist spirit through punishing wealth redistribution so favored by socialists. But I guess that wouldn’t fit your socialist agenda comrade?
Only a socialist could say in the same statement: higher pay for workers, public health care option and higher taxes on the rich are not socialist
Higher pay for workers, a public health-care option (do you know what the word “option” means?) and higher taxes on the rich do not equate with socialism.
The tax levels on the rich were historically much higher. So I guess the USA was Socialist in the 50’s. (you are turning into a joke)
The difference in middle-class/rich pay levels were much less in the past. Were we “socialist” then?
You are ignorant of America’s economic history and you have begun to argue like someone who is getting bested good. If name calling is all you got, I’m glad because you are easy.
I understand our economic history. I, like most fiscal conservatives, would support raising taxes to address the deficit. What I won’t support, and what most liberal socialists advocate, is raising taxes for wealth redistribution via entitlements.
I, like most fiscal conservatives, would support raising taxes to address the deficit.
Well…. then you are a lot better than most all the political “fiscal conservatives” on the national stage. They are a joke when it come to looking out for the good of America. They are a JOKE - and un-American.
ALL of the Republican Presidential candidates refused to consider $10 in budget cuts in exchange for $1 in tax increases.
This is a classic example of DOGMA hindering the good of America and hindering their job to govern for the good of their country.
“I, like most fiscal conservatives, would support raising taxes to address the deficit.”
You and which conservative Republican leaders (presumably “most” of them) on the national stage?
First!
But no seriously, alpha-sloth was ignorant to workfare programs in Europe and wanted me to provide links. Many in the UK are up in arms over workfare because they believe people should be allowed to sit at home and collect a check, something their high court just upheld last month.
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/
alpha-sloth was ignorant to workfare programs in Europe
Amongst the sea of dubious/preposterous claims you presented as ‘facts’ yesterday, you said that:
“in most European countries, if you’re on welfare you work…even if it’s picking up trash from the side of the road”
If you have proof to back up that claim, let’s see it. If you think your article on a single experimental workfare program in one country proves your claim, then I guess we can see that your idea of a ‘proven fact’ (like you claimed the Laffer Curve was) differs from that of everyone else.
BTW I’m no expert on European welfare programs either, but I don’t go around presenting as ‘proven fact’ a bunch of talking points I just picked up on some right-wing dittohead propaganda site.
The real issue is that the administration hasn’t “gutted” any work requirements of the current program. States that can demonstrate they have a program that doesn’t exactly meet the federal “one size fits all” requirements but that the state believes will be more successful at getting people off welfare and into full time work can apply to the feds to try their program and not lose their funding. It is exactly the flexibility that should be offered to states that have done enough research to have identified a way to do a better job for their own population than a program that was designed to be good enough all over the country. And they have to provide real results or they lose the exemption.
I think that Romney’s administration in MA actually applied for this sort of flexibility, though I don’t know if it was for this exact program.
Doesn’t it ring BS to require people to get jobs when they aren’t available . I hear this time and time again regarding
this distain for people needing welfare or some safety net ,while at the same time I see a Nation that allowed the gutting of the job base and the tax revenue base on policies that seems to enrich a small percentage of the population .
Doesn’t it ring BS to require people to get jobs that don’t even
pay enough to maintain the cost of living in the USA ? Doesn’t it ring BS when you watch the price fixing Monopoly Corporation get to raise their prices by any means while the people don’t get cost of living raises ,at the same time they are expected to take benefit cuts ?
Doesn’t it ring BS that people are forced into buying health care ,when those Monopolies weren’t forced to cut their gravy train profit margins and health care costs weren’t reduced ( which should of been the objective of health care reform .) i could go on and on .
In my view this is just a one-sided game of how to screw the American population by any means and tansfer the pain to the Majority population and keep the status quo of the
hijacking of America by the forces that own the Politicians
now . The problem is that the big Bee Hive is what makes all boats float ,not some small percentage that thinks that they
are entitled to the Lions share by bribing Politicians to see things their way .
I think the point of Workfare is there is always SOMETHING for people to do. Frankly if I were getting a check from the government, I’d want to do something, anything to earn that money.
I don’t believe that it rings as BS to make people take work over unemployment or welfare benefits. Those benefits pay very little and a job will almost always pay more. It’s when people are content to just collect a check that I get irked. I’ve put entry level positions out there with a low base pay and moderate bonus potential. Do you know how many interviews I conducted with people who were only doing it to satisfy the unemployment agency? Do you know how many people told me, well, your base salary is only $100 more per week than I’m making now? Here is where the system is broken and I’m not sure what the solution is.
It’s been shown that the management and administration of a workfare program exceeds the costs of just plain “welfare”.
As for welfare, you do know that UE (the most utilized form of assistance) is short term, right? And family assistance (the second most utilized) is also temporary.
The third most utilized is disability.
If you think any of those are easy to get, and once acquired, mean easy living, you know NOTHING of how the system works.
By FAR, the biggest welfare recipients are corporations, in the form of BILLIONS in tax breaks each year.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812
And that’s JUST income tax. Then there’s the local tax breaks schemes…
“when those Monopolies weren’t forced to cut their gravy train profit margins”
They were required to cut the amount they spend on anything other than compensation for medical services so the combination of executive pay, marketing, rejecting people with pre-existing conditions, profits, etc. was cut.
‘In 2011, a record 46 million people - or 1 in 7 Americans — participated in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), better known as Food Stamps. The increased use of Food Stamps is a huge social and political issue for America, and it’s also big business. In 2011, the U.S. government spent $72 billion on Food Stamps.’
‘Among the beneficiaries, food producers such as Cargill, PepsiCo. (PEP), Coca-Cola (KO) and Kraft (KFT), as well as retailers like Wal-Mart. Of course, Wall Street gets a cut too, led by JPMorgan Chase (JPM), which administers the SNAP benefits in 24 states.’
‘Wal-Mart “gets a large fraction of Food Stamp dollars,” which contributes 25% to 40% of revenue at select stores, according to Nestle. “These companies, therefore, have a vested interest in making sure Food Stamps are allowed for any purchase at all.”
‘Funding for Food Stamps comes from the Farm Bill, which is currently being debated in Congress. “You can bet the food companies like it just the way it is and they are lobbying” to prevent restrictions on how Food Stamp dollars are spent, Nestle says.’
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/marion-nestle-big-business-food-stamps-where-profits-164228337.html
“By FAR, the biggest welfare recipients are corporations, in the form of BILLIONS in tax breaks each year.”
And who’s the guy who’s been railing against that on this board?
If you look at the Health care system as a whole ,how much of the problem of costs were really the people who had pre-existing conditions . The costs were high even with the pre-existing people thrown out of the mix by the Private Insurance Companies prior to the Health Care bill passing . Than they have been raising the insurance costs
for 3 years now to cover what they think will be any
shortfall they will take by needing to insure people with pre-existing conditions ,in spite of 30 million more that will have to pay .
Don’t get me wrong ,I think its horrible how they were
dropping people right and left if they had pre-existing medical conditions and that was something that needed reform ,but they always make up for anything they have to give so the status quo remains the same in terms of high medical costs .
I want a singer payer system ,but I want a lower cost medical system and I wanted that addressed and all the real reasons for the high costs .
Got to give you credit for that. Sincere credit.
Personal anecdote and side bar to UI: the last time I used UI, it was administered, in my state, by…. Chase.
I got a plastic card and if I needed cash or to look at my balance, it was Chase ATM and Chase on-line. Even said Chase on the back of the card.
Oh yeah, and they wouldn’t let me use my last 2 dollars at the end of my eligibility.
Nice little skim there.
The real problem with healthcare is Big Pharma and trial lawyers. Doctors will put you through every test under the sun to avoid being sued (most aren’t doing it for profit). Combine that with magic pills and potions many of which that do more harm than good that the medical field has bought into courtesy of an owned FDA and here we are.
The real problem with healthcare is Big Pharma and trial lawyers. Doctors will put you through every test under the sun to avoid being sued (most aren’t doing it for profit).
Interesting. Is this true?
So, you haven’t read the Atule Gawande article I suppose? Tort reform has NO effect on health care costs. None. It is the culture of the doctors in the area.
I’ve read the case studies from Texas that showed no effect in that state. But then again, who wrote the law? A $250,000 cap on non economic damages doesn’t make it any less expensive to litigate now does it?
Yep - would not affect the costs at all.
And PS - Trial Lawyers are the SECOND largest contributors to the democrat party. Wonder why that is?
—————————–
In a 2003 report that called for medical liability reform, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services estimated that limits on malpractice awards could save between $70 billion and $126 billion a year. But that estimate was based on a study published in 1996 that analyzed data on elderly heart-disease patients from 1984 to 1990. That study, published in the Quarterly Journal of Economics, found that malpractice liability reforms lowered health costs by between 5% and 9%.
To that end, many states have passed laws in recent years aimed at curbing liability claims. An aggressive law passed in Texas in 2003 caps liability awards at $250,000 for noneconomic damages such as pain and suffering, a move that has led to fewer malpractice suits being filed, according to several prominent plaintiffs’ attorneys there. According to Texans for Lawsuit Reform, a lobbying group that supports the caps, medical-liability-insurance rates have declined an average of 21% in the state since the law change, with almost a quarter of doctors seeing a 50% decrease.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125193312967181349.html
Housing:
Having to practice so called “Defensive medicine” has been a huge issue in the medical and insurance communities since the malpractice crisis of the mid-1970’s. Today’s suits have so many “also-nameds” that even the orderly who changed the patient’s bedpan is at risk of being sued, so medical personnel are forced to err on the side of excess.
Yet California has had a $250,000 cap on pain and suffering awards since 1980, and it certainly hasn’t stopped juries from awarding multi-million dollar damages over the years. Tort reform is a red herring to cover for the traditional antipathy between MDs and trial lawyers when the real issue, as Polly says,is the culture that encourages it.
Bad Andy, I disagree on your healthcare point. In CA, they’ve had tort reform for years, and the one effect that it has had is much lower malpractice insurance costs.
Doctors will still provide as many tests as they can under your insurance.
My wife and I had a doctor once suggest a test after he confirmed that our insurance covered it. It was ~$1,000, a new machine, when my wife was pregnant with our first child…hard to say no when it’s covered. After the fact, our primary care physician said that the test was overkill.
It’s all about the money.
Healthcare is often like a restaurant, when someone outside of the room is paying, and the person who is serving you the food gets paid more if you eat more.
And it’s actually worse than that, since there is an imbalance of information.
It’s no wonder we overconsume healthcare.
found that malpractice liability reforms lowered health costs by between 5% and 9%.
Is the 5-9% extra cost worth what is received in exchange for it?
As I said earlier, a cap doesn’t lower the cost to litigate.
As far as testing goes it’s debatable. I’d rather see doctors paid on a yearly basis per patient on their books as opposed to per test or per visit. How to make that much of a fundamental change is what’s beyond me.
It’s not “about the money” inasmuch as it’s illegal for docs to take kickbacks from any outside labs or facilities they refer to. Nor can they own their own lab, dispensing pharmacy, radiologic facility, etc. they refer to. Prescribing that $1000 medicine was likely precautionary since it was available to the patient and covered by insurance.
Per patient will only work with a single payer system. One patient comes in once that year for a case of the sniffles. The next requires of state-of-the-art positron emission and chemo therapy for stage 4 non-Hogskins lymphoma and needs to be seen 2x a day for six months at a time.
Docs are definitely going to go for that.
I’ve seen both sides. I was the clinical chemistry supervisor for a large laboratory at one point in my career. Yes, we ran many a test from doctors over ordering to protect themselves from law suits. On the other hand with my own personal doctors I have been the one telling them what additional testing with family members is needed but only because of my background.
An interesting aside. Went to get tested for new glasses and the doc wrote the Rx and then gave my a specific eyedrop Rx. My daughter told me when I picked it up it was expensive but no substitute available. Put the dang drops in and my old glasses on and viola I could see great. I hadn’t had the Rx filled so I scheduled a new eye exam and sure enough with the eye drops my Rx change was less. Dr. Said no charge for re-exam and gave me more free sample eye drops. Eye drops were not supposed to have that effect.
That is just for caps on non-economic pain and suffering.
Now add in the costs of defensive medicine, hospitals hiring a phalanx of lawyers on staff, paying off nuisance lawsuits, medical companies NOT bringing drugs/devices to market due to risk, etc.
We are probably up to at least 25% of the total cost…
found that malpractice liability reforms lowered health costs by between 5% and 9%.
Is the 5-9% extra cost worth what is received in exchange for it?
I agree with Rental Watch: Doctors will still provide as many tests as they can under your insurance. It’s all about the money. Healthcare is often like a restaurant, when someone outside of the room is paying, and the person who is serving you the food gets paid more if you eat more.
In fact, I was told by a retired MD who I work with that doctors absolutely, positively order tests based on the patients insurance coverage (he used to do it!). If they know it will be covered, they will order it.
“If they know it will be covered, they will order it.”
Fundamental problem that needs a solution that I can’t propose.
There are some medical centers (I think the Mayo Clinic may be one of them) where the compensation to doctors is based on outcomes and number of patients treated, and not on procedures ordered. I think this is where we are headed, if folks can figure it out.
So ,eastcoaster ,you are saying that the reason Doctors order tests is because the insurance pays for it ,rather than it being for Defensive Medicine purpose ?
And could you also say the Doctors ordered Pharma drugs because the Insurance Company pays for it ? And could you also say that Pharma drug industry pushed these drugs
because the Insurance Company paid for it ?
I know I’m butting in here, but my view is that there are lots of reasons doctors order tests and prescribe drugs. Knowing my doctors, I like to believe that the main reason is to try to heal people.
After watching the pre-med track firsthand at a major university, I know that you really need to want it to be a doctor. If those people really just wanted to make money, there are easier ways.
That said, people respond to incentives. Money is a powerful incentive. If the test might only have a 1/1,000,000 chance of coming up with something new, won’t hurt the patient (physically or financially), is paid for by the insurance company, AND has the added benefit of putting the doctor beyond reproach if despite conducting the test something goes wrong? Why WOULDN’T the doctor prescribe the test?
I can tell you that in our case, if the doctor told us that the test would cost us $250, and the insurance company would pick up $750, we would have at least consulted our primary care physician before saying yes. And given what was already known at the time the test was performed, and what she said, we would have likely declined.
While I don’t know how doctors are compensated on drugs, I think it is likely that what is covered by insurance companies absolutely impacts which drugs are prescribed, and in what quantities.
“Frankly if I were getting a check from the government, I’d want to do something, anything to earn that money.”
I just want to make sure I got this right: you let a house go to foreclosure but you’re a bootstraps guy?
Had no choice Muggy. If I had the money I would have honored my obligations. I didn’t drag the process out, just gave the bank their collateral.
Andy:
And its an abject Failure..why? workfare only works for people who have never had a job before of the best job they had was at a car wash. Otherwise its a taxpayer boondoggle only to support the employees of the program.
If the goal is to get people off of welfare and assistance and into a real JOB, then shouldn’t the work have some relevance to your previous resume?
What good is say working filing papers or moping floors when you have a college degree and real job skills? Wouldn’t it be cost effective for say someone like me to work at a public radio or tv station improving my editing skills, or at the DA office to use my rusty paralegal knowledge?
There is plenty of Failure to go around….
———-
What is the situation with workfare in your country now?
Across the US there is workfare in many states. New York City has been a model because of our large population. Over 17000 people every day are doing Work Experience Program as it is called here.
I’m not a proponent of private employers getting to enslave people on Welfare. I am a proponent of getting people trained or re-trained and working as productive members of society.
Bad Andy .
How often do you hire a over qualified person who you know will leave once there are any openings in their normal field .
Some people don’t want some min wage job on their resume
that suggests they are desperate and will take anything if they know that they deserve more for what their qualifications are ? No doubt a person that had a higher life style has greater bills and obligations also ,and they are seeking something that will maintain their “nut” so to speak
when they got laid off.
I’m interested in the folks who are looking to make a career change and will hire someone “over qualified” at that point. You have to start at the bottom, there’s no free ride and that’s where the problem really lies. If you’re starting anew there’s really no such thing as “deserving” anything is there?
If you’ve been unemployed for a long period of time because you’re waiting for something in your field…maybe it’s time to reevaluate your field.
Andy I just received a job offer
Commission sales of office copiers and telemarketing his client lists…..
We still get 10-20 of these crap job offers a week that have nothing at all to do with whats on my resume..
Oh wait I did telemarketing for DJ companies talking to brides and booking my own gigs….does that count?
Unsolicited job offers?
My resume i post on CL and others……
We used to get 50 -60 and one week 84 spam commission only be your own boss make $100K the first year job offers
Even the spammers have given up getting people to join their MLM.
It took me ten years to get back in “my field”. The ONLY cause was the economy.
And just how many times can someone “start over” in life?
Try starting over at 50+. After having already “started over” many times in life due to multiple recessions and grand scale fraud. There is no “starting over” you are fooked no matter what the job and will never retire, never afford decent medical care and be lucky to not be living in the street drinking yourself to death after 72… if not before.
MILLIONS are in this very situation.
I don’t know turkey lurkey. I hired a gentleman 2 years ago at 71 and he’s doing just fine right now. It’s all about the mindset and the willingness to start over. If you were smart with your money over the years you would have the funds to cover the gap.
Which is laudable, but the unfortunate reality is that nobody offers OJT these days.
Heck, if aren’t an almost perfect fit, you even won’t get considered.
Then again, many training classes I’ve sat in had far too many people who thought it was open mike night or something, so I can see the incentive to NOT do training.
“Students” I mean to say “…far too many students who thought…”
My business is about 75% on the job and 25% specific industry licensing and outside education. I would rather not bring employees with baggage but train the culture of my business. Unfortunately business has bought the myth of higher education and relies less on real world experience, at least in my experience.
Why Not Andy they do it today under the guise of “internships” most used to be paid 5-10 years ago….that’s enslavement
Why not bring any work even internships under the labor law??
If you’re foolish enough to work for free and you don’t intend to have Dr. in front of your name then shame on you.
Goes back to the higher education myth. These institutions that charge you a small fortune to “learn” also push the internship model. Ever hear of student teaching? That’s even better! PAY US to work for an entire semester after you’ve already paid us to rehash what you’ve already been taught. Then we’re going to throw you to the wolves to make $35,000 per year and pay back $50,000 in student loans.
YOU still dont get it…….most employers today are dim wits, and let their 20 year old bangable chicky poo look at the resumes
They all want to see a recent job in your field…no freakin excuses
So yes if Imus called or Geraldo and asked me to work for free I would be there at 5am tomorrow morning….
I hear Maury is looking for interns. That’s the perfect picture of what our society has become…
Yeah Id have to move back to Stamford CT and work like a dog.. You always wonder why they keep advertising for paid “interns” I guess if you have no life…also Steve Wilkos and some brainless English gal produce shows there…..
Plus rent would actually be more then here if you want to be close to public transportation which is pretty ok during the weekday. otherwise you would have to pay for parking to work there..
Ive been thinking about it….but not sure if i have the fortitude to be associated with such crap….but then a job is a job right?
They all want to see a recent job in your field…no freakin excuses
Correct. Being unemployed, especially older and long term unemployed will get you labelled as damaged goods. Which is why both times I was laid of in the past 10 years I accepted the first job I was offered each time, even though they were crappy. Doing so kept the dreaded gap off of my resume, allowing me to eventually move onto something better.
It doesn’t even have to be directly in field, but something. You’re right. As much as I don’t want to admit it, I don’t like gaps and I don’t like a resume littered with 5 and 6 month job hopping.
Did you ever consider that your characterization of potential employers as “dimwits” (after all, they’re the ones offering the jobs, not you) might have something to do with your not being hired by any of them?
Or that referring to their trusted employees (the ones in charge of hiring you) as “chickypoos” might tend to color those women’s opinion of how well you’d fit into their organization? Racist, zydeco dj’s with cat-sitting experience aren’t really in huge demand these days….
ANDY
You Dont know what kind of perverts most employers are today….so that job hopping might have prevented a workplace shooting.
And gaps Idiot employers wont accept staying home with a sick parent, or freelance….no it has to be a real job
Gawd let me find a smart employer let me find one that knows you just cant walk in and hand a resume even to the receptionist let alone HR.
Andy i really think is all BS…you have a dead end job and you need a dead end employee to fill it…
And for that I admit I AM very unqualified.
DJ, get out of NYC. If you don’t understand the NYC is a dead end unless you are already wealthy or connected, then you are doomed.
ESCAPE FROM NY!
“Andy i really think is all BS…you have a dead end job and you need a dead end employee to fill it…”
How is a reasonable job at a reasonable wage dead end?
Bad Andy ,you might be different than the bulk of employers that are hiring today ,but what turkey lurkey
and aNYCdj are saying takes place out there .The gap ,which might not reflect at all on how good a person
could be as a employee, is a major dead at arrival for a job appliciant . THe exact right fit seems to be demanded
by Employers today from what I have been told ,except employers what to pay less to get that also .
When there is NO advancement or other opportunities except at some other company….
You see I’m a bad fit in today’s world…I like challenges i like doing different things I cannot fathom doing the same job for even a year let alone 20…..
people that dont give a crap about their jobs are the family types…the job is important to me and that’s whats been destroyed in America…jobs with meaning.
How is a reasonable job at a reasonable wage dead end?
Andy..most employers are really dimwitted most dont even know who GW Bush was and what he said in the presidential debates with Perot….
Yes he told GM workers to have multiple Ines of income…turn a hobby into a business, learn a new skill you assemble cars well fix lawnmowers….
And the ahansen…cat sitting is a fun way to make a few $$ one month we made over $2000 because so many went away, and it paid for my car insurance for a year ($700)…with plenty left over. most months $100-200
But explain this to today’s employers it is so far over their heads….and why is is so hard to find a real live ADULT to interview with…
My worst one was a few months ago at a video production company…I told the chickypoo I worked at court tv all during OJ…she said who is OJ? I walked out….
The OJ Simpson trial was in 1995 - 17 years ago. She could have been 25 years old and not even known it was happening at the time.
I’m with ahansen. If you consider all potential employers to be dumber than you, have no respect for the employees you interact with and, as you just mentioned, can’t possibly see yourself doing the same thing for even a year, then why should any employer waste their time on you. Even if you had recent experience, you wouldn’t get a job with that attitude.
I wonder how many years it takes to foreclose on a deadbeat in the golden state?
I had a loser next to me who got 3 years of free rent @ 1800.00 / month market rent.
36 * 1800.00= 64, 800.00 in stimulus. I wonder if he got food stamps too?
I think it depends on the circumstance. I have a customer whose ex wife has been in a home without payments since January 2009. Bank of America has tried to get their property twice now, both times had some issue to do with the robo signing and foreclosure freezes. I think the divorce would have gone differently if he’d have know that she would get to live rent free for almost 4 years and counting.
http://www.foreclosureradar.com/california-foreclosures
The average timeframe to foreclose from NOD appear to be about 9 months right now (take a look toward the bottom of the page).
However, the bias is that these are only the foreclosures that are completed, not the ones still outstanding.
How long until the NOD is filed is anyone’s guess…and how many people are living free because of paperwork snafu’s is also a giant wildcard.
In CA at least, if you have your paperwork in order, you CAN foreclose.
The biggest problem is in places like FL, where even if you want to foreclose, you have to go through the clogged courts.
Coffee pot on .
That was a hot Monday yesterday with 445 posts . A friend told me yesterday that a old lady they knew was denied their 28 dollars a
month food stamps now .Can someone even live on 28 bucks a month for food ?
Anytime you bring politics onto the board it lights up.
I’ve seen people get supplemental food stamps where the government doesn’t see a complete need but some need. No one can reasonable be expected to live on $28 per month but if that’s what their shortfall is, $28 would make all the difference in the world.
What about her free cell phone and internet, and all the other “swag” the “free sh#t army” gets?
It’s some high, high living earning the “sweet spot” income of $17,000/year that qualifies Lucky Duckies for the maximum Earned Income Tax Credit of $5,700.
If you have at least 3 kids.
Yeah, those parasite kids should get jobs as chimney sweeps and start producing instead of suckling from the taxpayer’s teat.
Make them janitors… say in the evening after school. That will build real character!
isn’t unemployment a insurance program rather than a direct welfare program grant ?
It used to be and it is once again, however when it went to 99 weeks it was mostly welfare. Up to 26 out of 99 were funded by insurance.
But the 99 week thing is gone (IIRC). As HW said, unemployment is fundamentally an insurance program, which is supplemented during especially bad times.
I’ve just googled this and it seems it’s trickling to a close, but not completely ended yet, with only a few people still eligible.
99 weeks is gone if a few states, but many states still have it. The number of weeks eligible depends on a state’s unemployment rate. For the booming (and totally coincidentally Republican run) states like ND, ID, TX 99 weeks is long gone. For the basket case - Democrat run - states like CA, 99 weeks is still in full effect.
We never had it in “Democrat” run Colorado.
I also just looked at a unemployment rate table (by state) there are both blue and red states in the top 10 list (highest unemployment)
Food stamps are meant to supplement the food budget, not replace it. If you get food stamps you can still spend your own money on food. It isn’t a “you have no money to spend on food” vs. “you have enough money to buy your own food” determination. Why would you even think that was the assessment?
welfare should pay better, dammit!
We were on food stamps while earning $9,800/year as a Graduate Research Assistant (student loans are not counted as income), getting about $170/month and eating on half of that.
Then it must not have been a science major? I was making a lot more than that a dozen years ago, little more than minimum wage but enough to live on.
Oxide, here is an article about NG and trucks: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-43144368/cheap-natural-gas-sells-cleaner-trucks-but-not-the-big-rigs-yet/
Even without government incentives soaring sales. Just think what would have happened with incentives. it would not take decades to convert America to NG.
it would not take decades to convert America to NG.
A lot of the infrastructure is already in place. I’ve got nat gas at my house, and could fuel up at home.
Polly ,this friend was telling me that the lady was really upset because she really needed that money for food I guess . But I guess some cuts were made that made her not qualify anymore .
I don’t know anymore details than that .I was just wondering if that was part of the cuts that were going on .
Wonder how many bureaucrats were sitting in that agency’s office building shuffling paper and pretending to be busy?
HW:
You can tell her there is the internet and she could have done some research
You never ever go in blind to ANY government office and apply..even UI Job service Workforce 1…….1 mistake and oops you get $28 instead of $200
With little fanfare, natural gas has captured 20 percent of the new bus and garbage truck markets. There’s a good reason for that: a gallon equivalent of compressed natural gas (CNG) is approximately $1.30, and liquefied natural gas (LNG) something like $1.90.
“A friend told me yesterday that a old lady they knew was denied their 28 dollars a month food stamps now .”
That’s unpossible! We all know that welfare is easy to get and nobody is ever denied and the free crap army is breaking us with their damn $28 A MONTH free crap!
“Can someone even live on 28 bucks a month for food ? ”
Only if you eat grass….
If you are vegetarian, quite old (low metabolism), have a decent garden, and supplement what you grow with nothing but beans, lentils, and rice, um, probably no. Even in the summer months when I live off what I have produced here at the ranch, I still buy olive oil. And propane to cook with. And have to transport those 50 pound bags of rice and beans. Even feed corn is $15 a bag, and I’ve never found edible beans or rice for less than $1 a pound.
I imagine the woman’s larger allotment was probably either cut by $28 or else she had other qualifying income to offset her food allowance. I’m pretty sure federal guidelines allow more than $1 a day for food. (See Barbara Ehrenreich’s “Nickel and Dimed”.)
Contrary to popular fanatics, any kind of govt assistance is harder to come by these days.
Unless you’re Wall St.
So she may have become over qualified without any real change in her income, or she may now have new income, but not enough to really change her need or she may just flat out now have too much income for whatever reason.
ahansen, maybe you can give a lesson sometime on your natural way of eating that sounds kinda good .
First, start with poverty….
I think a lot of people here will like this opinion piece by David Stockman.
Paul Ryan’s Fairy-Tale Budget Plan
By DAVID A. STOCKMAN
Published: August 13, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/opinion/paul-ryans-fairy-tale-budget-plan.html
A few teases (seriously, you guys are going to like this):
Thirty years of Republican apostasy — a once grand party’s embrace of the welfare state, the warfare state and the Wall Street-coddling bailout state — have crippled the engines of capitalism and buried us in debt. Mr. Ryan’s sonorous campaign rhetoric about shrinking Big Government and giving tax cuts to “job creators” (read: the top 2 percent) will do nothing to reverse the nation’s economic decline and arrest its fiscal collapse.
And
Similarly, there can be no hope of a return to vibrant capitalism unless there is a sweeping housecleaning at the Federal Reserve and a thorough renunciation of its interest-rate fixing, bond buying and recurring bailouts of Wall Street speculators. The Greenspan-Bernanke campaigns to repress interest rates have crushed savers, mocked thrift and fueled enormous overconsumption and trade deficits.
The greatest regulatory problem — far more urgent that the environmental marginalia Mitt Romney has fumed about — is that the giant Wall Street banks remain dangerous quasi-wards of the state and are inexorably prone to speculative abuse of taxpayer-insured deposits and the Fed’s cheap money. Forget about “too big to fail.” These banks are too big to exist — too big to manage internally and to regulate externally. They need to be broken up by regulatory decree. Instead, the Romney-Ryan ticket attacks the pointless Dodd-Frank regulatory overhaul, when what’s needed is a restoration of Glass-Steagall, the Depression-era legislation that separated commercial and investment banking.
Mr. Ryan showed his conservative mettle in 2008 when he folded like a lawn chair on the auto bailout and the Wall Street bailout. But the greater hypocrisy is his phony “plan” to solve the entitlements mess by deferring changes to social insurance by at least a decade.
There is quite a bit more. Enjoy.
See also: Paul Ryan sold shares on same day as private briefing of banking crisis, from the UK Guardian
“Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney’s vice-presidential running mate, sold stock in US banks on the same day he attended a confidential meeting where top level officials disclosed the sector was heading for a deep crisis.
The congressman on Monday denied profiting from information gleaned from the meeting on 18 September 2008 when Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, then treasury secretary Hank Paulson and others outlined their fears for the banking sector. His office said he had no control over the trades.
Public records show that on the same day as the meeting, Ryan sold stock in troubled banks including Wachovia and Citigroup and bought shares in Goldman Sachs, Paulson’s old employer and a bank that had been disclosed to be stronger than many of its rivals. The sale was not illegal at the time.”
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/sle9wkPhAh-75iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=world/2012/aug/13/paul-ryan-sold-shares-banking-crisis&cat=most-read
Where can I sign up for insider info so I can profit just like congressmen and senators?
The People want to know.
This is legal for all of them. Wonder who else was in that meeting???
As a senator and the majority leader in the Senate, Harry Reid pulls down a salary of $193,400 per year. According to the latest data from Opensecrets.org, which is from 2010, Reid has assets totalling $10,360,000.
I am not just picking on Harry, there are many others that go into “government service” and come out millionaires.
This is just another case of “they all suck” and the question is which team sucks the least?
“…the question is which team sucks the least?”
It’s not a fair question. While I have conservative viewpoints that get me blasted here, there is no team that sucks the least. I’m not any more likely to vote Republican than Democrat unless that Republican is Paul…and that guy doesn’t tow the party line. Washington is owned and it’s not by the people my friend.
“…the question is which team sucks the least?”
And that’s the entire history of politics since the dawn of time.
Bad Andy,
It’s not your “conservative” view points that get blasted, it’s the one’s that don’t hold water. The sad fact is that conservatism, by its very nature is more easily negated than open-minded analysis ( the literal definition of “liberal”), which is why critical thinking tends to be the purview of liberals rather than conservatives.
You’ve brought many thoughtful and insightful ideas to the conversation with your posts over the years, so you shouldn’t feel picked upon when they’re scrutinized for accuracy or consistency. After all, that’s what discussion is all about, and you’re dealing with some VERY well-informed people on this forum. Personally, I’ve really been enjoying your lively exchanges of late, and hope you have too. (And I truly appreciate your bi-partisanship. Thank you!)
You….. who hates all things govt come out and defend insider trading by elected officials?
It doesn’t get any better than that.
Not sure he is defending it, just stating what is.
With regards to who else was at the meeting, I am sure this is very wide spread and considered one of the perks of elected office. Not just Ryan involved.
Would you prefer a politician who is too dumb to jump off the sinking ship or one who is smart enough to jump?
September 18, 2008 meeting. I dunno, at that time even HBB knew the game was up. It would be pretty hard to prove anything there.
Heck, the HBB was screaming “game over” when I first joined this party back in spring ‘06.
Back in 2006, I found many posts to offer implausibly gloomy prognostications.
By spring 2007 I was a convert and not only got rid of all my stock investments, but persuaded my dad to do so as well.
By August 2007 I knew we were in a panic.
By Spring 2008, I foolishly bought back into the stock market.
From Fall 2008 — Spring 2009, the part of my assets in the stock market took the roller coaster ride of their lives!
But don’t worry folks, even though interest rates are at similar levels now compared to their Fall 2008 levels (only slightly lower), THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!
This commentary takes a very moderate viewpoint and shows the holes in Ryan’s plan. Ryan like most other politicians is easily swayed and helps to illustrate my frustration with the 2 party system in its present form.
In my view these are emergency times and it’s no time for normal Politics . In fact the issues are so important that its on the level of historic FORK IN THE ROAD . Enough of the Politics of calling who the winners and losers are . What will restore America to a functioning Nation again in which the majority population isn’t thrown under the bus (shouldn’t that be the goal ).
The Right has their form of who the losers should be and the Left has their form of who the losers should be ,but what does it really take to put America into a functioning economy again with stability. i like to look at when the USA was functioning the best in terms of balance to get a idea of what went wrong .
I also think that BAILOUT Nation for the Politcal protected has
been a moral hazard for a Nation that use to be based on the
”Rule Of Law.” The Puplic has watch BANKS and Investment firms BAILED out in the trillions ,while they are being asked to give up, while at the same time endure cut in wages and benefits ,
while at the same time see unemployment rise to alarming degrees . The Politics of picking winners and losers isn’t going to work .
Normal Politics doesn’t work right now .
“Normal Politics doesn’t work right now.”
No it doesn’t but it hasn’t stopped the establishment from playing the public against each other in a two party none of them worth a damn PR war.
Oh, it doesn’t begin to show the holes in the Ryan plan. But I don’t expect you would find the people who point those out to be credible. But you can look here:
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/the-ryan-budgets-savings-come-from-shutting-down-the-federal-government
This is the important part (the rest is a critique of a Wash Post article):
Actually, in percentage terms by far the biggest savings in the Ryan budget comes from essentially shutting down the federal government, except for Social Security, health care programs and the military. The CBO analysis of his budget [Table 2] shows that all other areas of federal spending falls to 4.75 percent of GDP by 2040 and 3.75 percent of GDP by 2050.
Military spending is currently more than 4.0 percent of GDP and Representative Ryan has indicated that he wants to keep spending at its current levels or raise it. This means that under the Ryan Budget, by 2040 there will be almost no money left for national parks, education, the State Department, the Food and Drug Aministration, federal courts and all the other activities currently supported by the federal government. By 2050 there will be no money left for these activities. The Post has seriously misrepresented Representative Ryan’s agenda by not pointing out thus fact to readers.
Certainly the original piece does show the holes in Ryan’s plan. This shows the issue of military spending. You’ll never get me to justify military spending at its current level. You’ll never get me to justify an agency known as TSA. There’s a lot of places where I disagree strongly with the GOP. Military spending is one of those places.
Awesome post, Polly.
What will Mitt and Paul say to defend themselves against that withering critique by Ronald Reagan’s former budget director?
Probably nothing, I’d guess…
I don’t agree with all of it, but there is some interesting stuff in there. He is working on a book. Not out until March 2013 according to Amazon.
“David A. Stockman, who was the director of the Office of Management and Budget from 1981 to 1985, is the author of the forthcoming book “The Great Deformation: How Crony Capitalism Corrupts Free Markets and Democracy.””
It’s amazing to me how well the republican establishment has hijacked the tea party movement. The democrats squashed the OWS movement; but the republicans manipulated theirs into a formidable base.
How the hell some inside the beltway, status quo politician like Ryan is considered a tea party golden boy is beyond me. All he did was draft some budget that he knew had no chance in hell of passing.
the republicans manipulated theirs into a formidable base.
The Tea Party was the Republican base, pissed off because they had just witnessed all the propaganda they’d been fed by the party bigwigs get thrown under the bus when it was time to bailout Wall Street. But it was a quick tantrum, and they were quickly and deftly led back to the fold.
Well sure, the bailouts came and went, but those damn union janitors are still making $12/hr!
We got to get those Union Janitors down to 8 buck a hour, don’t you know .
I would love for you all to see what would happen if the government really did cut all these government jobs ,or sliced all the wages and benefits in half . Do you realize how many Monopolies that would affect ,and how much cash flow would go bye bye .
People wonder why both parties seem to actually be on the same team in the final analysis .
And that’s why both parties will continue to kick the can.
“People wonder why both parties seem to actually be on the same team in the final analysis”
no one i know that purports as such is wondering why.
The bailouts came and went ? Before the bailouts started, the yearly deficit was less than .5 trillion and was considered ruinous and unsustainable. Now the deficit runs at 1.3 - 2 trillion. The bailouts have become permanent.
Special Report: Who’s Cleaning Up?
In Cambridge - the two highest paid janitors made $112,000 and $107,000 last year.
In Boston - the top earning janitor made $89,000 last year.
No one’s disputing custodians do an important job and schools couldn’t run well without them. But some question why a position that doesn’t require more than a high school diploma would have such a relatively high pay check.
http://www1.whdh.com/features/articles/specialreport/BO145113/
I agree, that is outrageous.
But what percentage of unionized janitors make that kind of dough? It has to be tiny.
I remember when I lived in SoCal that the union janitors were having some sort of strike and I recall that they made something like $10/hr (but had decent benefits)
shhhhh…There’s no government waste. Nothing to see here. Move along.
they were quickly and deftly led back to the fold
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-30/tea-party-congressmen-accept-cash-from-bailed-out-bankers.html
No, those of us who were smart enough to see the Republican party hijacking the Tea party were also smart enough to know that anyone running with an R next to their name would get nothing accomplished.
Allen West is a great example of someone who said he was not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling and then folded. I’m not here to debate the debate the debt ceiling but it’s just proof that whatever Boehner wants he’ll get…even from supposed Tea Party Republicans.
Mr. Ryan showed his conservative mettle in 2008 when he folded like a lawn chair on the auto bailout and the Wall Street bailout.
My favorite line in the article.
He does have a way with a simile.
Fantastic article Polly .
It would almost be worth discussing as a weekend topic. There is a lot of stuff in there.
These banks…..need to be broken up by regulatory decree. David Stockman
David Stockman: a Republican U.S. Representative from the state of Michigan (1977–1981) and as the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (1981–1985).
wiki
” The Greenspan-Bernanke campaigns to repress interest rates have crushed savers, mocked thrift and fueled enormous overconsumption and trade deficits.”
So… basically, kept the economy, doomed to massive imbalances by current free trade and tax policy trade, functioning?
Yeah…. they suck for keeping the fundamentally flawed economy from plunging into depression.
Peregrine Financial CEO Indicted On 31 Charges
In other news, Corzine is still a free man.
“Corzine is still a free man.”
Why do you think that is?
What rhymes with bundle?
Jindhal?
Trundle!
swindle?
TCTJ : Too Connected To Jail
Spanish and Italian commercial real estate markets meltdown
American Thinker | 08/13/12 | Rick Moran
My jaw dropped when I read this Financial Times report on the commercial real estate markets in Spain and Italy:
The Spanish and Italian commercial property markets have all but collapsed with the number of transactions in both countries falling more than 90 per cent in the three months to July as investors worry about the future of the eurozone.
Only three property transactions were registered in Spain during the second quarter, down from 58 deals in the previous quarter. In Italy the slide was even more pronounced, with just two buildings being traded during the period, down from 56, according to data from Real Capital Analytics.
I write about commercial real estate every day, and every report has a page on investment transactions. The same thing happened here. In lots of markets there was zero for many quarters.
WT:
Can you explain why so many properties here in Long island city area some are still sitting empty after 4 years…big signs but not even a short term tenant, how can they afford to keep it empty?
Do they own it outright so their monthly costs are minimal? Or are banks just not foreclosing on them?
Union Greed and Politician Apathy are Killing Cities
Townhall.com | August 14, 2012 | John Ransom
If you follow the rule in life to follow the money, the money trail increasingly is leading to a union pension, a union wage or a union contract. And it’s putting America’s cities out of business.
As more municipalities begin to eye bankruptcy proceedings as a way out of their financial mess, many believe that one great advantage of bankruptcy proceedings is that it will allow the nullification of fat union wages, pensions and other benefits that taxpayers in the private sector don’t get.
But if the example of Stockton, California serves as a guide, city officials would rather screw taxpayers and bondholders than take the union-led public employees off the state-sponsored tit.
Public employee unions make public campaign contributions to politicians precisely for the exigency when taxpayers’ interest conflict with the interests of public employees.
Why not screw the bondholders?
Isn’t this the precedent established by our president when he gifted $25 billion to the UAW pension plan- which killed the automakers to begin with- while giving the in GM bondholders the shaft in extra-legal bankruptcy proceedings?
Continues Bloomberg:
Stockton couldn’t meet its financial obligations to pay for enhanced pension benefits five years ago, so it borrowed the money [Editor’s emphasis]. Rather than cut unsustainable benefit levels while it has the chance to do so now, officials there would rather default on the $103 million it owes Assured (AGO) Guaranty.
FWIW, if they borrowed money to shore up the pension fund, that money is protected during a BK. Just like if you borrowed money on your CC and deposited it into an IRA. Your IRA would be protected during a BK.
So I don’t think that they could legally raid the pension fund to pay back the bondholders.
That said, I would never buy bonds being sold to shore up a pension fund. That was a red flag that the city was already financially on the ropes.
I think all this borrowing was because of the PR campaign that everything was alright and subprime was contained ,and this is just a little glitch that will pass and the recovery is just around the corner ,and real estate will go up now . But in real life every year things went downhill ,at least for Main Street it did .
A lot of this was done for the purpose to let the 1% rearrange the life savors on the ship in their favor ,while the Public was lied to .
The money “deposited” into pensions funds may or may not be protected depending on how a bankruptcy judge views any claw backs.
However - $200,000/year public union pensions and free medical care for life are NOT protected in a bankrupt. They are only “promises” made on the backs of future property owners.
FWIW, if they borrowed money to shore up the pension fund, that money is protected during a BK. Just like if you borrowed money on your CC and deposited it into an IRA. Your IRA would be protected during a BK.
…. but but but…… cops and firemen are heros :vomit:
It always kills me to see the cops from New York here. They’re newly retired, given full pension, and now they’re working in Florida getting a full salary in addition to their pension…and better yet…in 20 years they’ll get another from Florida.
Any pension reform needs to include stipulations that make it impossible to work full time while collecting a full pension.
I agree if you are retired you should be retired or collect both pensions at 65
Comment by In Colorado
2012-08-14 08:20:18
FWIW, if they borrowed money to shore up the pension fund, that money is protected during a BK.
Chapter 9 is a whole different animal. 10th amendment rulings mean that the court and the creditors have their powers limited. Other than a ding to your credit rating there is little downside to filing Chapter 9.
Maybe Stockton shouldn’t have been part of that business tax break giveaway, like San Joaquin Enterprise Zone.
http://www.kbkg.com/enterprise-zone-california/san-joaquin-enterprise-zone
“Have any of you all met Paul Ryan? We should get him to come to the university. I’m telling you this guy is amazing. … He is honest, he is straightforward, he is sincere. And the budget that he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, serious budget and it cut the budget deficit just like we did, by $4 trillion.
Just another right wing tea party radical Republican talking head saying this, right? Nope. This was Bill Clinton’s chief of staff, Erskine Bowles. The same Erskine that led Obama’s commission on debt reduction, which Obama completely ignored of course.
So which is it? Is Ryan a puppy eating, kitty killing right wing radical who wants to kill grandma? and grandpa Or is he an amazing, honest and sincere guy? So confusing trying to keep up with Democrats.
Do you have a link for that quote? I can’t seem to find it.
Please just ask yourself why CT is quoting Erskine Bowles instead of David Stockman. A lot of people in DC were taken in by the Ryan budget plan until they had a chance to look at the assumptions of the scoring and the details. He assumed a reduction of unemployment to 2% almost immediately and further assumed it stayed there. Absurd. And he also did the same “I promise we will broaden the base” thing that we have seen elsewhere without specifying any of the deductions he would actually get rid of. None.
Here is one of several sources. The video is on You Tube as well, just search for it.
Yahoo News:
“A video of former Clinton White House chief of staff Erskine Bowles began circulating in conservative news outlets today. In the clip, the Democratic co-chair of President Obama’s National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform gives high praises to Paul Ryan’s budget plan.
“I’m telling you, this guy is amazing. I always thought I was OK with arithmetic. This guy can run circles around me,” Bowles tells a class of students at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. “He is honest, he is straightforward, he is sincere. And the budget he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, honest, serious budget and it cut the budget deficit just like we did by four trillion dollars.”
“The president came out with his own plan. And the president, as you remember, came out with a budget. And I don’t think anybody took that budget very seriously,” Bowles continues.”
Thanks. It apparently just hit the right-wing web sites this morning.
I wonder what Erskine thought of Ryan after Ryan led the defeat of Simpson Bowles in conference?
That comment was after Ryan voted against the plan.
The vote happened in 2010.
The quote is from 2011.
This should be a a 30 second ad running in Ohio, FL and Wisconsin by tomorrow. But it is the Stupid Party, so I’m not holding my breath.
Oh Ryan defeated Simpson Bowles? Really? Wow.
“On Wednesday, Reps. Jim Cooper and Steve LaTourette managed to put Simpson-Bowles to a vote before the House of Representatives. It didn’t just fail. It got crushed. The final tally was 382-38. Twenty-two of the supporters were Democrats, while 16 were Republicans. But overall, the rejection was overwhelming, and overwhelmingly bipartisan.”
Why do peple flat out tell lies that can be refuted with a 5 second Google search?
Hey did you also know that Paul Ryan eats puppies and kittens for breakfast? It’s true. I read it online. And he also gives steelworkers cancer. No wait, that’s the other evil Republican running.
And here’s a bunch of skepticism from inside the Romney campaign about the Gov’s decision to run Ryan on the ticket.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/romney-picked-ryan-over-advisors-early-doubts
So?
I agree with parts of the Ryan Plan, too, but that doesn’t override my grave concerns. It’s a starting point for the discussion.
The vote happened in 2010.
The quote is from 2011.
Odd that he would so praise the guy who was primarily responsible for killing his plan. It’s one thing to forgive him. It’s another to lavish praise on him. Weird.
Maybe Bowles respected Ryan’s view and reason for voting no?
It is possible to highly respect someone with whom you disagree. This is a concept that I’m afraid is lost on many in politics today.
Why do peple flat out tell lies that can be refuted with a 5 second Google search?
Because of this?
And I note from your link that when in finally did get around Ryan and come to a vote, more Democrats supported it than Republicans.
Aha! I knew it.
NewsObserver
A video clip of Erskine Bowles, the co-chairman of President Obama’s deficit commission, singing the praises of fellow number cruncher Paul Ryan is making the rounds on the Internet – but it doesn’t accurately represent his entire speech.
In fact, the video maker cut out the part of the speech where Bowles calls the Wisconsin congressman’s 2011 plan for Medicare “pretty radical.” (See below for a more complete audio.)
“It is possible to highly respect someone with whom you disagree. This is a concept that I’m afraid is lost on many in politics today.”
Hit the nail on the head.
Thanks for that, Sloth. There’s generally a pesky modifying clause or three left out of the quotations that filter to us through the drudgosphere.
Darn those facts.
“Darn those facts.”
time for a new line, lady
Boston rents spiral higher
A few choice quotes:
“The average monthly rent jumped more than 7 percent to $1,881 in the past year”
“The vacancy rate, already low last year at 3.8 percent, has dropped to 3.1 percent… In high-end neighborhoods such as the Back Bay and South End, barely 1 percent of apartments are vacant, making it nearly impossible to find rentals there.”
“The market has become so tight that Mayor Thomas M. Menino has asked developers to propose novel approaches to providing “worker” housing — units that middle-income tenants can afford to rent, that is.”
“Among the most novel responses has been so-called micro-housing: tiny, sub-studio-size apartments that have room for little more than a galley kitchen, bathroom, sleeping area, and chair. The units, some as small as 350 square feet, are mostly being built in the emerging Seaport District and will rent from $1,200 to $1,600 a month.”
So it appears Beantown has some rough economic times ahead of her.
Yes and no. Boston isn’t immune to economic cycles, but I have a feeling that this particular economic boom has some legs. Kind of a perfect combination of wealth, education, business expansion, technology, and limited real estate development within 128.
I’m guessing that this boom will continue until the higher education boom comes crashing down. As anything else, take that for what it’s worth (not much).
My impression of Boston after just getting back from my first trip there is that the countryside is beautiful but between the traffic and the humidity and the housing cost you’d have to pay me at least double my current salary to get me to move there.
A blast from the past .
Those rents are to darn high ,
their about to reach the sky
I will be a running , I see the landlord acoming
Those rents are to darn high
Those rents are taking me down ,
I’m digging a hole in the ground
it’s my belief
I can’t get no relief
Those rents are to darn high
Those rents are to darn high ,
oh me oh me oh my.
The American dream is getting reamed
Those rents are to darn high .
The social worker says it’s over
Aint going to be any four leaf clovers .
The Gov is out of gas ,just kicked me in the ass
Those rents are to darn high .
Actually i forget what the original words were .
And it’s still at least a fold cheaper to rent than “own” a condo. Just the facts.
And it’s still at least a fold cheaper to rent than “own” a condo. Just the facts.
Indeed. Here’s an anecdotal story along those lines:
Visited with friends last week who live on Martha’s Vineyard year round. They are middle-class types in education and construction, not the typical wealthy jet-set types who vacation on the island. They rent a 3 bed 2 bath house near Oak Bluffs for $1800/mo. The owner has the house for sale for $450K. He says to me jokingly: “You should buy this place and rent it to us.” My response: “If I were to buy this for house for $450K, I would need at least $3750/mo in rent to make it a worthwhile investment… more than double what you’re already paying.”
Put another way, even if I raise monthly rent to $2000/mo, the property is only worth $240K. Now, you can earn quite a bit more than $1800/mo with seasonal rentals in the prime July-Sept vacation season. Probably $2000+/wk, but that kind of rental is heavily dependent on the economy and the weather and I still don’t see how you can make your annual mortgage payments just on summer rentals without being obnoxiously optimistic, never mind actually cash flowing.
Having said that, the 1% is spending money like drunken sailors on island real estate. The house my friend is working on will end up costing upwards of $500/sq ft and it is just a guest house on the property…
” “If I were to buy this for house for $450K, I would need at least $3750/mo in rent to make it a worthwhile investment… more than double what you’re already paying.”
Huh?
Even with 0% down, at a 3.5% rate, your mortgage would be $2000. Not sure what tax is but say it’s $5000 a year. That’s another $400. Insurance and maintenance another $250 to be on the safe side.
How on earth did you get to $3750? Not saying it’s a good deal if you can rent it out for $1800. Just questioning how you figure $3750 is the right rent. Seems to me like $1800 is way undervalued as a rental for Martha’s Vineyard.
How on earth did you get to $3750?
Using the 120x monthly rent “back of the napkin valuation” calculation. In this case, $450,000 / 120 = $3750. It’s just a quick and dirty way of valuing a rental property based on a single data point, in this case, monthly rent. BTW, this is one reason why SFH’s in MA make really crappy rental investments. Using a traditional metric like 120x monthly rent, very little pencils out as a proper cash-flowing investment here.
BTW, it isn’t that far off the mark, as the elements we’re not taking into consideration even using the numbers for PITI that you mentioned are maintenance/repairs, vacancy, and profit (in this case, return on a cash-flow basis).
Seems to me like $1800 is way undervalued as a rental for Martha’s Vineyard.
This is a year-round rental. Rents are quite reasonable 8 months out of the year. It is only the summer months that skew things up dramatically. Many long-time owners are willing to give up the summer rentals spikes for a steady year-long income. That market is based on the incomes of the full-time island residents. While incomes are higher than average on the island, they are are not dramatically higher than the state averages.
The person who owns the cottage next to my wife’s father on Cape Cod is experiencing that exactly. They bought for 350K in 2006 and are now renting it out for 1000/month. Not the best ROI but I’m guessing they don’t have 50K or so to bring to the closing table if they tried to sell.
To put things in perspective, I bought my multifamily for $20,000 less than that and the property grosses $2850/mo at full occupancy.
Either the SFH market is still grossly overpriced or the rental market is underpriced. I’m betting a bit of both.
Either the SFH market is still grossly overpriced or the rental market is underpriced.
Or someone up in Boston is a commie.
Plenty of commies in Boston… Cambridge is known as “the people’s republic”…
$1881 per month.
Going by the 24% shelter cost rule, this means you have to make $7524 per month, or $90,000 per year, making the market only affordable to approx 25% of the entire population.
Yeah, that’s going to go well.
‘Economic suicides’ shake Europe as financial crisis takes toll on mental health
Kostas Tsironis/ASSOCIATED PRESS - A note in Spanish is placed among candles flowers and cards with an Orthodox Saint that people left at the site where a 77-year-old shot himself in the head Wednesday, on Syntagma square, Athens, Thursday, April 5 2012. Police clashed with demonstrators for a second day Thursday at the site where an elderly man shot himself dead, leaving a suicide note that blamed the country’s harsh austerity measures for his action. (AP Photo/Kostas Tsironis)
By Ariana Eunjung Cha, Tuesday, August 14, 9:15 AM
ATHENS — Antonis Perris, a musician unemployed for more than two years, was desperate. Perris wrote in an online forum late one night that he had run out of money to buy food and cursed those responsible for the economic crisis in Greece. “I have no solution in front of me,” he typed.
The next morning, Perris took the hand of his ailing 90-year-old mother. They climbed to the roof of their apartment building and leapt to their death.
The double suicide in a working-class neighborhood in the Greek capital in late May is one of thousands this year that have shaken European societies as mounting job losses, cutbacks in public services and shrinking government pensions due to the continent’s financial upheaval take a toll on mental health.
In Greece, which is in its fifth year of recession, such suicides have sparked violent protests between police and those opposing austerity who have held the victims up as martyrs. In Italy, the death of entrepreneurs such as builder Giuseppe Campaniello, who set himself on fire outside a government tax office in Bologna on March 28 after his company collapsed, has triggered demonstrations by widows of businessmen who have committed suicide. And in Ireland, where citizens are jumping off quays in Dublin, Cork and Limerick in alarming numbers, the mobile telephone company Vodaphone volunteered to give up the stadium advertising space it bought at soccer and hurling games for a suicide prevention campaign.
…
“The next morning, Perris took the hand of his ailing 90-year-old mother. They climbed to the roof of their apartment building and leapt to their death.”
Isn’t that what Ayn Rand would do too?
After reading today bits, I can only conclude:
-employees suck
-Managers and business owners sucks.
The US of A…….a country founded by a Multi-National Corporate/government partnership, to steal stuff from the locals.
to steal stuff from the locals.
Those deadbeats weren’t maximizing their profit potential.
Powhatan = First Corporate Raider.
When the Virginians couldn’t find enough workers….
(probably while saying stuff like “we can’t find any good help/nobody around here wants to work”)
……Powhatan Indians were forced into slavery, followed by slaves captured in Africa.
(as it was too difficult at the time to hire illegal workers from Mexico, due to time/distance constraints)
In the meantime, John Smith starts a well known American tradition, marrying the Boss’s daughter
In the meantime, John Smith starts a well known American tradition, marrying the Boss’s daughter
Now, now GS, it’s called “keeping it in the family”
“Overqualified” really means “WE WANT TO HIRE A MORON!”
Or that you’re getting a little too obvious with that gray hair. And those creases in the face aren’t helping either.
For all you know I might have spiked it shaved the sides and dyed it purple on top…a dj has to have style…
Me? I can’t do a broadcast without a warmup ritual that includes dietary restrictions — no dairy on the day of a show because that stuff fogs my voice — and stretches. Lots of stretches. Then there’s a sitting and then a standing meditation in the library next to the broadcast studio. Heck, I even joke about wearing lucky socks.
Major League ballplayers, you’ve got nothing on Slim. Maybe I should take a practice swing and cross myself before stepping up to the mike. And did I mention that I’ve been thinking about carrying a lucky feather?
YES WE CAN!!!!!
(protect those UAW jobs and dues that go DIRECTLY to support the democrat party)
————————————
U.S. Treasury increases auto bailout cost estimate
CNBC | 08-14-12 | Unkown
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department has said the auto industry bailout will cost taxpayers $3.4 billion more than previously thought.
Treasury now estimates the 2009 bailout will eventually cost the government $25.1 billion, according to a report sent to Congress on Friday.
That is up from the last quarterly estimate of $21.7 billion.
Treasury has so far recouped about half of what was extended in grants and loans to GM and Chrysler, related retail financing arms and suppliers. Some of the money was repaid in cash, while the remaining interest was tied up in equity shares held by the government.
What’s with the ‘democrat’ party? Is it derogatory to leave of the ‘ic’?
Is there anybody left who doesn’t think that auto-bailout, tarp and the like didn’t cost too much?
The president defends all of it.
FWIW, Saint Paul Ryan voted for the automaker bailouts.
If we stick to R vs. D as the only choices, we’re doomed.
The U.S. Treasury Department has said the auto industry bailout will cost taxpayers $3.4 billion more than previously thought.
Government picking winners again…
Treasury has so far recouped about half of what was extended in grants and loans to GM and Chrysler, related retail financing arms and suppliers. Some of the money was repaid in cash, while the remaining interest was tied up in equity shares held by the government.
According to RioAmericaninBrazil, this isn’t socialism. Government ownership of corporate interest is very much a capitalist thing… now if the government were to control the manufacturing or distribution, that would be socialism. Wait a second…
You really should move to Somalia.
You really should move to Somalia.
Why? Generations of my family have served to protect the interests of the US. My grandfathers shed blood, sweat and tears for this country. I served my country. I still believe in the founding virtues of my country and that their is opportunity here. I think I’ll stay.
You on the other hand may be better off leaving. I hear Canada has a great healthcare system. I also hear Europe is a Socialist Paradise… may want to stay out of Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain though. Seems they spent all the money they had and then some.
I really don’t call the Banker /Wall Street Bail Outs
Socialism . For me that was more like lets pick the winners and losers and obstruct justice before everybody gets
sued silly or goes to jail for our crimes .
Socialize the risk, privatize the profits. The end result of too big to fail.
From the cool link above:
Didn’t know NJ was way up there in delinquencies.
————————————
Highest Mortgage Delinquency States Q2 2012
Florida 13.48%
Nevada 10.85%
New Jersey 8.15%
Maryland 6.79%
Lowest Mortgage Delinquency States Q2 2012
North Dakota 1.32%
South Dakota 1.94%
Nebraska 2.24%
Wyoming 2.41%
http://newsroom.transunion.com/press-releases/transunion-national-mortgage-loan-delinquency-rat-0917498
Go Florida! WE’RE NUMBER 1! WE’RE NUMBER 1!
Ask yourself….Self, what have I done to protect liberty today?
Ask yourself….Self, what have I done to protect liberty today?
Rail against the evil of Socialism and reveal the Communist behind every Socialist…
Rail against the evil of Capitalism and reveal the Crony Insider Robber Baron behind every Capitalist…
Weee … saying silly things is fun!
Rail against the evil of Capitalism and reveal the Crony Insider Robber Baron behind every Capitalist…
No one forces companies to buy software from Oracle… how can L. Ellison be a robber baron if customers have a free choice in their product they purchase? Heck, OpenSource is about as far from “Robber Baron” as you can possibly be, and Oracle owns MySQL.
I know you were being “tongue-in-cheek”, but the truth is I’ll take our current system of capitalism, corruption and cronyism included, over any Socialist paradise the likes of Rio and others push…
I’ll take our current system of capitalism, corruption and cronyism included, over any Socialist paradise the likes of Rio and others push…
Another strawman Northeastener? Your losing it a bit. Some poster’s facts and logic must be getting to you. You used to sound more rational but now your posts are devolving into a more Mr. Smithers type of nonsensical talking point strawman gibberish.
A shame because you used to add more thinking.
Your losing it a bit
“You’re” LOL. Sorry Northeastener. I’m watching a movie in Portuguese and it requires more than half my brain. But I DO know the difference.
You’re losing it a bit but your losing it is funny.
Self, what have I done to protect liberty today?
1. Point out how universal healthcare and stronger social safety nets can increase the liberty and risk-taking of entrepreneurship which in turn strengthens healthy capitalism which enhances liberty.
2. Discuss how increasingly growing wealth-inequality in America diminishes liberty for most people. A person with wealth enjoys much more liberty in their lives than someone who is broke.
3. Point out how the rigid dogma of the wealth-inequality defenders can lead them to use straw-man arguments, distort others’ positions and preclude them from seeing degrees, exceptions and nuance in issues. This protects liberty by pointing out their weak arguments regarding points 1 and 2 above.
Come on Rio, true capitalism, fair capitalism is not evil. It’s when the government picks winners and losers that we all lose.
The problem with socialized medicine is it takes away from the patient/doctor relationship and brings in a 3rd party…the government which can and does bring in rationed care with it. Ask them in the UK what happens when you might be brain dead but it’s not yet confirmed. You can argue about the insurance company being that same 3rd party, but you can at least decide if treatment is worth it to you outside of coverage financially. Our system isn’t perfect and it benefits mostly the insurance companies, but I’ll take it over waiting for 6 months to see a specialist for my cancer. True reform needs open mindedness that doesn’t exist right now.
Wealth-inequality is a puzzling concept to me. Are you saying the janitor should make what the doctor makes? If so, what’s the incentive to be a doctor?
Come on Rio, true capitalism, fair capitalism is not evil.
That’s what I say, have said and will say. I am a capitalist and I am not evil.
The problem with socialized medicine is it takes away from the patient/doctor relationship and brings in a 3rd party
The Canadians don’t seem think so.
“A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada”wiki
you can at least decide if treatment is worth it to you outside of coverage financially.
You can do this in Canada, Brazil, England, France etc. Why could you not? And many in those countries have private insurance to compliment the “socialized” medicine. I do in Brazil. Is there not private supplemental Medicare insurance in the USA?
I’ll take it over waiting for 6 months to see a specialist for my cancer
That is mostly a staw-man.
(In Canada) life-threatening cases are dealt with immediately….The median wait time for diagnostic services such as MRI and CAT scans is two weeks…The median wait time for surgery is four weeks wiki
Wealth-inequality is a puzzling concept to me. Are you saying the janitor should make what the doctor makes?
No but that type of question is a common straw-man type question used to distort the issue. The people who correctly argue against gross wealth and income inequality are arguing for LESS inequality, they are not arguing for equal pay for everyone. Arguing for janitors making as much as doctors is silly.
“It’s when the government picks winners and losers that we all lose.”
The government forces corporations and financiers to lie, cheat and steal?
Ye…ah. Shuure.
Wealth-inequality is a puzzling concept to me. Are you saying the janitor should make what the doctor makes?
No but that type of question is a common straw-man type question used to distort the issue. The people who correctly argue against gross wealth and income inequality are arguing for LESS inequality, they are not arguing for equal pay for everyone.
Rio isn’t for paying the Janitor the same as a Doctor. He is for the government taxing the Doctor and using the proceeds to give the Janitor all sorts of entitlements so the Doctor and the Janitor can live life “more equally”. You know, the basic premise behind “From each according to his ability, for each according to his need”…
Rio isn’t for paying the Janitor the same as a Doctor. He is for the government taxing the Doctor and using the proceeds to give the Janitor all sorts of entitlements
Wrong. This is a strawman and you are probably being willfully ignorant in making this most recent stupid argument because what I am really for scares you. Good.
What I am for is paying the janitor enough so he doesn’t need any entitlements. I am for spreading the wealth around - redistributing wealth stolen from the middle-class BACK to the middle class. I am not for equal pay. I am for more equal pay.
And what mechanism is used to get janitor pay up so he doesn’t need “entitlements” ?
Another way to put this: Who pays for the higher janitor wage and who determines what the “more equal” pay is?
Socialists will say government. Capitalists will say market. What’s your answer?
what mechanism is used to get janitor pay up so he doesn’t need “entitlements” ?
For one thing, a government who’s laws don’t hinder private unions and collective bargaining. Another is a min wage that keeps up with real inflation. Another is immigration control. There are more.
Socialists will say government. Capitalists will say market.
SMART capitalists will NOT simply say “markets” rule everything because smart capitalists will realize that eating your young for temporary profits can lead to very bad things. Can you see them coming? I think you can but you don’t have a clue to why they are coming.
“1. Point out how universal healthcare and stronger social safety nets can increase the liberty and risk-taking of entrepreneurship which in turn strengthens healthy capitalism which enhances liberty.”
I understand your point. The problem with any government program are the strings attached. They begin to tell you what to eat, drink and smoke; then they start biometric testing, weigh ins and other types of profiling (I know the left hates profiling…right?).
So yeah it sounds fantastic to have freedom to open a business and not have to worry about paying for health care, but have you really increased your liberty? Far from it, you just open up your life and lose your privacy to nanny state progressives.
“2. Discuss how increasingly growing wealth-inequality in America diminishes liberty for most people. A person with wealth enjoys much more liberty in their lives than someone who is broke.”
No argument here, have you sent these concerns to the corrupt politicians in the White House and Capitol Hill? They are bought and paid for by Wall Street, Defense contractors, Oil companies, Green Energy companies, etc. Did 500 million dollars to Solyndra make the poor less broke? I am pretty sure the Obama cronies involved in that mess still have country club memberships.
They (governments) begin to tell you what to eat, drink and smoke; then they start biometric testing, weigh ins and other types of profiling (I know the left hates profiling…right?).
And I understand your point, but denying for pre-existing conditions is a form of profiling too. I don’t consider a system’s failures in a vacuum. I try to look at each system’s strengths and weaknesses COMPARED to other system’s strengths and weaknesses. IMO, a healthcare system such as Canada’s is superior to America’s system. And part of the Canadian system’s superiority lies in its ability to foster economic liberty.
“…Self, what have I done to protect liberty today….”
Oh bite me, Rush. I’ve protected your nebulous buzzword by attempting to ensure our nation provides justice for all.
Required Reading:
Simpson, Bowles, and Buffett on deficit reduction.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48166800/
i’m too tired to look it up on my on…can someone explain to me the context of Biden’s “they gonna put ya’ll back in chains” remark?
DANVILLE, Va. –
Vice President Joe Biden told a racially mixed audience in Danville today that Mitt Romney’s policies will let banks write their own rules and “put y’all back in chains.
This was according to the Richmond Times-Dispatch.
Romney’s policies will let banks write their own rules and “put y’all back in chains.
Like this?
In jail for being in debt
http://www.startribune.com/investigators/95692619.html?refer=y
You committed no crime, but an officer is knocking on your door. More Minnesotans are surprised to find themselves being locked up over debts.
…people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.
Biden has a knack for ‘accidentally’ telling the truth.
Democrat race card.
It comes out every 4 years.
A good blast from the past - “If you vote republican another Black Church is going to burn down.”
The irony is that democrats are the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow Laws, the party that had a Grand Wizard of the KKK as its Senate Leader and the party that filibustered Civil Rights legislation for 20 years…
Democrat race card….It comes out every 4 years.
Bigot idiot’s race card….It comes out in some HBB poster’s every 4th post.
(I’m not talking about you 2banana)
But hey, Charles Murray said so.
The irony is that democrats are the party of slavery,
In some ways Democrats evolved and Republicans devolved. My daddy used to call me the “family Republican” and I was I guess.
I don’t like the Democratic party much but I’ve evolved to the point where I can see that the 30 years of following Republican economic, supply side mantras have been HORRIBLE for the middle-class. And I won’t blindly and idiotically support the Republican “rich get richer” BullSh!t. I try to think for myself.
Well Rio ,I was a Republican for most of my life until I realized what the game was ,not to say I like the performance of the other side either . I’m into the idea of regulated capitalism because I believe that people need incentive to perform better and reward is a great thing . But I can’t get behind a rigged system ,or a system that is bought and paid for at the expense of common sense or the survival
and general welfare of the entire BEEHIVE ,or perhaps the security of the World .
And I will even go further and say the following .If the nonsense continues very much longer I have great fears for the security of the World ,as well as the USA.
The Founding Fathers of America were wise enough to know they needed to control the Corporations ,so strict rules were laid out so they wouldn’t get to much power or have Political
influence in the early day foundations laid out in USA. That position has reversed today ,with even the
Supreme Court recently giving Corporations more power, with the power to influence elections ,when they claimed that a
Corporation should have the same rights as a person . Shocking that a ruling like that came down .
I always appreciate the kind of debate that went on up above
that you took the time to submit .
We use to be a Nation that had policies of busting up Monopolies ,now we encourage them .If any Country gets to the point where he who has the most gold ends up calling the shots ,than the people are doomed .
Government can become a dictator ,the military can become a dictator , Corporations and Business Enterprise can become a dictator ,and even mobs can become a dictator .But everything that was laid out in the Constitution was a attempt to prevent these sort of seeds of destruction of freedom , liberty, and the welfare of the individual and the collective BEEHIVE . IMHO
Ruh-roh…Asia’s QE cargo cult members losing the faith? This can’t be good news to the Wall Street bovine herd whose movements are driven by QE3 hopes.
Asia falls as QE hopes dim
Asian stocks fall as investors reassess chances of central-bank stimulus to support the global economy.
Hi CIBT, What are you doing up so late ? Thanks for all your articles
because I do read them and they are well picked out . I’m just making a guess here, but I think you think the Stock market is going to take a correction down . I happen to think it will ,but I have been surprised before when it didn’t when I thought it would .