August 16, 2012

The Same Housing Market That We Had Before

Forbes reports on Florida. “Since the housing bust, foreign buyers have flooded the U.S. housing market. Foreign nationals accounted for $82.5 billion, or 8.9%, of the $928 billion spent on U.S. residential real estate from April 2011 through March 2012, according to the National Association of Realtors. That was up 24% from $66.4 billion the previous year. The Chinese are the second-largest foreign buyers of U.S. homes. Who’s No. 1? Our neighbors to the north in Canada. Canadians have been a dominant purchasing force in hard-hit Sunbelt states like Arizona and Florida.”

“‘The market in downtown Miami has been principally dominated by Argentineans, then Brazilians, then Venezuelans,’ said Philip Spiegelman, a principal at International Sales Group, a marketing and sales organization for real estate developers. Spiegelman says Europeans, particularly French, have been buying more in southern Florida in recent months as well. ‘The real attraction here is cheap, cheap, cheap waterfront real estate: these buyers look at this and think it will never be as cheap again.’”

Business Excellence Magazine. “In another sign that a new Florida condo boom is under way, the Miami Herald last week reported that 45 new condo towers are in various stages of development for the Southeast Florida area. Another new project that launched in late 2011 was Barefoot Beach Villas in Pompano Beach. They were priced in the $300,000 to $400,000 range and sold out in just a few months – mostly to Canadian buyers.”

From WFTV. “There’s a trend under way in the central Florida housing market, and buyers having trouble landing their dream home, and the problem is due to other buyers outbidding on the same property. One local house listed at $99,900 got 15 offers in seven days. Realtors with similar bank-owned properties that have three bedrooms, two bathrooms are having no trouble attracting potential buyers. ‘There’s 15 offers on this home,’ said Ray Lopez of Keller Williams. ‘All but one is above asking price.’”

“Housing inventory around the Orlando metro is down more than 20 percent, and with interest rates below 4 percent, buyers are still there. ‘That’s what’s driving the market,’ said Lopez. ‘You have low pricing, great interest rates and you have really, really, cheap pricing compared to where it ought to be.’”

The Orlando Sentinel. “Orlando real-estate agent Cindy Brads knew the home market had turned when a bidding war ensued recently on a stripped-down foreclosure in Eustis that quickly sold for a price comparable to houses with all their parts intact. And it sold for more than its $156,800 asking price.”

“‘This place needed special financing, because there were no air conditioners, no appliances, no toilets, no cabinets in the bathrooms, no light fixtures. They ripped out the wiring and the breakers out of the electrical box. They even dug up the septic tank — dug up the septic tank,’ Brads said. ‘And we still got into a bidding war, which was shocking.’”

“Such examples may be heartening to the legions of homeowners eager to restore property values damaged by the housing slump, recession and global credit crisis of the past five years, but they do not constitute a normal, stable market. Such an extreme bounce-back is not considered sustainable — just as the housing bubble that burst in 2006-07 was not. With the number of new and ongoing foreclosures once again rising in the Orlando metropolitan area, the supercharged market is unlikely to continue at its current pace.”

“‘When condominiums that sold for only $50,000 just a couple of years ago are now easily fetching $75,000, that’s a sign the bidding wars won’t last,’ said Bob Tenaglia, broker for Orlando-based Realty Executive Central Florida. ‘You know that it can’t last for long,’ he added. ‘You can’t sustain that for long, because we’ll get into the same housing market that we had before.’”

The Sun Sentinel. “South Florida homeowner associations are foreclosing on some of the nation’s largest banks, accusing the lenders of failing to pay thousands of dollars in maintenance fees on repossessed properties. The foreclosure filings are a growing trend. In one Broward County case, Deutsche Bank didn’t pay maintenance fees for nearly three years on a townhome it repossessed in September 2009 at the Southbridge development in Pembroke Pines, said Ben Solomon, a lawyer for the association.”

“The Southbridge HOA filed for foreclosure against Deutsche Bank last year. The bank finally paid $25,553 in June — and only then because it had to convey clear title to another buyer, Solomon said. In another case, he said, JPMorgan Chase hasn’t paid the Keys Gate Condominium Association in Miami-Dade County for more than two years after it foreclosed on a condominium there.”

The News Journal. “After seeing its ranking among Florida’s 67 counties improve to No. 30 the previous month, Flagler County once again is the worst in the state in terms of foreclosure activity. A total of 379 homeowners in Flagler County last month either received a default warning notice, a notice of pending foreclosure auction or were repossessed by the lender, up from 85 in June, according to RealtyTrac.”

“But the July numbers don’t seem to match what area Realtors say they are seeing in the marketplace. ‘That’s wrong. That’s not even true,’ said Carmen Bongiovanni, president of the Flagler County Association of Realtors, when told of the latest RealtyTrac numbers for his county. The last time he checked his association’s database a few days ago, ‘there were still only 17 or 18 listings as far as foreclosures. I don’t know where RealtyTrac gets their numbers.’”

“Therese Keys, the broker for Beach Bum Realty in Ormond Beach said on Thursday she could only find 11 foreclosure listings on the market for Flagler. ‘I sell a lot of foreclosures,’ she said. ‘I can tell you right now the inventory is so low, they’re being snapped up (by buyers) as soon as they’re put on the market, especially the $100,000 ones.’”

“Daren Blomquist, VP of RealtyTrac, defended the accuracy of his company’s numbers. ‘The important distinction is they’re (Realtors) looking at properties that are for sale, that may be short sales or foreclosures. What we’re looking at are properties that are in foreclosure, whether or not they’re listed as being for sale.’”

Tampa Bay Newspapers. “A recent survey of middle-aged Floridians found more and more of us don’t hold out much hope for retiring as well-off as our parents – or even at all. The poll confirms that most Florida baby boomers – especially those who’ve suffered great personal losses with the collapse of housing values – are feeling helpless and pessimistic about the future of the Sunshine State.”

“Those polled are at an age when they should be earning the most money of their lives, yet the bipartisan pollsters found 69 percent don’t expect to make enough to even consider retirement, and 58 percent worry they won’t live comfortably when they eventually do stop working. If the results of this poll prove anything, it is that the American Dream is dead for too many Florida baby boomers.”

“In an economy forever based on tourism, real estate and construction, there continues to be no meaningful job creation. Even then, the jobs available in these sectors pay crappy wages. The biggest problem is that too many homeowners are underwater on their mortgages and lost their life savings when their home equity – and stock fluctuations in their 401ks – were wiped out by Wall Street shenanigans.”

“With rising food and energy prices, and higher property taxes and insurance premiums, it’s become very expensive to live in the Sunshine State for workers and the retired alike. Yet the insurance market remains so messed up that Florida is one Category 5 hurricane away from insolvency. ‘This survey paints a picture of Floridians age 50+ who are having to defer their dreams and come to terms with a tough economy,’ said Jeff Johnson, AARP Florida interim state director. ‘For an alarmingly large number, their dreams are delayed or slipping out of reach.’”

The Bradenton Herald. “It’s a scenario playing out across the state: rising insurance premiums play an increasing role in the home sales market, according to real estate agents and home builders. Housing professionals say Citizens’ rate hikes are already hurting the real estate market, killing potential deals and spurring more foreclosures. Danny Hertzberg, a Miami Beach real estate agent, said that in the last six months he has seen insurance costs emerge for the first time as a ‘big ticket item’ with the potential to kill pending sales.”

“‘It impacts the carrying costs. When you put that in addition to the property taxes, it can become unaffordable,’ he said. ‘For people who want to sell and move, it’s one more barrier on selling. And you already have a group of people who are underwater and can’t sell.’”

“Bill Andrews, who bought a modest two-bedroom home in Hollywood in 2010, said insurance rate hikes with Citizens are making it harder for him to afford to live there. The son of a loan officer, Andrews said he carefully weighed his financial position before taking out a conventional 30-year fixed mortgage for the $120,000 home. What he didn’t consider, he said, was an impending campaign by Citizens to raise the cost of state-run insurance by more than the 10 percent rate cap enacted in 2009 .’

“‘We could reach a point where it’s not worth staying here anymore,’ said Andrews, a librarian who said he lives paycheck to paycheck. ‘We’ll move up [the state] or out of the state entirely.’”

“Andrews said his insurance rates have increased by nearly $1,000, and the rising costs are pushing him ever closer to defaulting on his recent mortgage. ‘This is going to force out everybody who could just afford a home during the worst financial crisis in this country,’ he said. ‘In South Florida, where we’re already hurting, it’s going to force everybody to walk away again.’”

“Upon entering the Willowbrook condominium community in East Manatee, one can’t help but notice large blue tarps covering balconies facing the gated entrance. The bright, neon-green warning notifications on doorways, which were hung by Manatee County inspectors to warn people of safety concerns, are so visible in one neighborhood, it almost looks festive.”

“Residents have expressed concerns regarding the value of their homes, which were built by KB Home. Though not all homes in the 270-unit community are plagued with sinking floors, separating window frames and other construction defects, residents could be seeing a decreased market value for their homes. Residents paid between $125,000 to 170,000 for the homes.”

“‘The market value before any of this hit the media was shot anyway,’ said Dan Koehler, who bought his condo in Willowbrook three years ago. ‘Anyone who rolls into here and sees the tarps, they’re not going to buy. The homes are just crap. I don’t think anyone will buy them after this.’”




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67 Comments »

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 06:28:42

I’ve witnessed first hand the influx of buyers in the condo market coming from other countries. Many are buying them as vacation homes and many are buying them as “investments.” This model is fine as long as they keep paying the dues for the buildings as these are all cash sales at HUGE discounts from the boom prices.

On the SFH side of things we can blame the banks holding back inventory. People still want homes. The newly married, the move up market (it’s back), and the move down market is back to normal, healthy levels. You’ve also got investors paying cash for homes priced 50 to 60% (sometimes more) off peak prices. Banks are only allowing their vacant inventory to trickle onto the market while keeping thousands of homes off. That makes inventory look artificially low and you start to get bidding wars on properly priced property.

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-08-16 06:38:57

‘bidding wars on properly priced property’

‘it sold for more than its $156,800 asking price. ‘This place needed special financing, because there were no air conditioners, no appliances, no toilets, no cabinets in the bathrooms, no light fixtures. They ripped out the wiring and the breakers out of the electrical box. They even dug up the septic tank — dug up the septic tank,’ Brads said. ‘And we still got into a bidding war’

Why should there be any ‘bidding wars’?

All I can do is point it out. If people can’t see what’s going on, so be it.

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 06:59:54

If you have a good job and you want to spin your wheels in bidding wars it’s not a bad time to buy. The best advice is to wait a good long time until everything sorts out but there are a lot who can’t be reasoned with.

$156K over asking is stupid.

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:53:02

“….$156 over asking is stupid….”

Incorrect. The ASKING was $156,000 and it sold for more. It is was a 2,000 SF house and went for $160,000, it may have been a good deal. It is hard to tell from a newspaper article. Some people have paid “over asking” and made great deals…..asking is not always relevent to value, it is usually just above value….but this market is not normal…

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Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 06:40:08

“….dominated by Argentineans, then Brazilians, then Venezuelans…” “….Canadians have been a dominant purchasing force….”

Globalization: First they take our jobs, then they take our homes!

Someone keeps moving my cheese. Life is so unfair.

Or perhaps it is karma….turnabout for the American plundering of the world’s resources during the last century?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 06:45:29

“First they take our jobs, then they take our homes!”

Our government encouraged the influx of foreign investors. And if you have properties you are trying to unload, you should be glad for it!

Comment by palmetto
2012-08-16 07:18:48

The goobermin has encouraged the influx of foreigners, period. From anywhere, for any reason. Screw the citizens. To paraphrase Henry Kissinger, they’re just dumb animals to be used for whatever.

And you know, the way people are willing to be taken in again and again, who can blame the grifters?

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Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:54:32

Consistent immigration is important to a healthy economy and a strong nation.

 
Comment by Montana
2012-08-16 09:18:06

It’s population replacement. They need their cheap labor and docile servants.

 
Comment by California Is Cratering
2012-08-16 09:21:07

“Consistent immigration is important to a healthy economy and a strong nation.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
lmao.

Says the used house pimp and slum lord.

 
Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 10:46:18

You don’t need to call me names or make slurs. Your points are rediculous enough on their own…..

 
Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 10:50:13

It is not I who makes the arguement. A very complete analysis is put forth by Fareed Zakaria here:

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/06/the-gps-roadmap-for-making-immigration-work/

 
Comment by California Is Cratering
2012-08-16 10:52:12

Your lies and misrepresentations are egregious and absurd.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 19:29:55

“Fareed Zakaria”

MSM economics pimp

 
Comment by Gadzooks
2012-08-17 05:15:14

Hands up, who else is tired of the “pimp” thing?

 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 07:49:27

I can understand how wealthy Venezuelans would want a foreign crash pad. They could be expropriated at any time. I was told in Colombia that the “Farmatodo” pharmacy chain, a Venezuelan concern, was moving many of its liquid assets to Colombia to protect against just that outcome. And Argentina’s struggles with inflation are well-documented, so I can accept buying a garish Miami property. But it doesn’t matter. These prices are not supported by any realistic view of our present and future, and we don’t care.

Comment by Northeastener
2012-08-16 10:33:17

The question that needs to be asked is “Are foreign wealthy buyers going to be the market going forward?”

In other words, is this just the beginning of a trend of foreign money diversifying into US real estate or is this an anomaly distorting the current market, soon to dissapear?

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Comment by SFC
2012-08-16 10:54:53

The question is, should one believe anything anyone in the real estate industry ever says. A real estate agent says waterfront is cheap, and may never be this cheap again. Wow, never heard that before. It isn’t like any of the reporters are going to fact check anything.

And that Business Excellence article has every phrase we always made fun of, it’s an advertisement for TopTenRealEstateDeals.com, trying to look like journalism.

 
Comment by Housing Is Cratering
2012-08-16 14:56:28

Are you suggesting that realtors are liars?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 19:32:12

“…is this an anomaly distorting the current market, soon to dissapear?”

I’m guessing that will appear to be the dominant factor when viewed through history’s lens, similarly to how the exit of California equity locusts from the housing markets of Montana, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Washington State, Oregon and Arizona helped drive the precipitous cratering of their markets.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 11:16:35

Curiously, emigrating Venezuelans with money are partial to the Broward County exurb of Weston, which has led to its nickname of “Westonzuela.” I have been there and it is a paradigmatic suburban wasteland. Now, that still may be preferable to Caracas, a place which one Venezuelan singer, in a song called “Rotten Town,” has called “the embassy of hell” (I’ve never been, so I can’t give an opinion) but going from any Latin American capital to a place like Weston is a gigantic culture shock.

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Comment by Overtaxed
2012-08-16 16:46:22

Weston is as close to “the embassy of hell” as I ever want to get. It’s suburbia, and has a huge premium associated with it for no definable reason. It’s in the darn Everglades! When you drive out there, there’s houses packed on top of one another on one side of the road, and, the other side, sawgrass as far as the eye can see. The only saving grace, it’s the site of one of my favorite housing bubble buildings, The Tao, a massive (30 stories or so) condo tower in the middle of the swamp. Cracks me up every time, you can see it from 10 miles out. So totally out of place, why build 30 stories up when there’s NOTHING BUT LAND on 3 sides? :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 06:42:38

“Since the housing bust, foreign buyers have flooded the U.S. housing market. Foreign nationals accounted for $82.5 billion, or 8.9%, of the $928 billion spent on U.S. residential real estate from April 2011 through March 2012, according to the National Association of Realtors. That was up 24% from $66.4 billion the previous year. The Chinese are the second-largest foreign buyers of U.S. homes. Who’s No. 1? Our neighbors to the north in Canada. Canadians have been a dominant purchasing force in hard-hit Sunbelt states like Arizona and Florida.”

1. Once the China and Canada housing booms go bust, will Chinese and Canadian investors in U.S. real estate go home, the same way that California investors in Idaho, Montana, Utah, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Arizona went home after the U.S. real estate boom went to bust?

2. Will Uncle Sam step in with Treasury funds to protect the value of foreign real estate investments?

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2012-08-16 07:14:30

Most here will be dead before this all shakes out.

Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 08:09:20

We might be dead because it is shaking out. That’s how misguided the policy approach has been.

Comment by Northeastener
2012-08-16 10:41:42

Wars have been started over less…

Speaking of which, any thoughts on the latest out of Israel? Word is they will strike Iran before the US Presidential elections. Seems Israel is stepping up preparations for preparing the civilian population for conflict, air raid drills for schools, new protective masks for families, etc. Israel doesn’t want to lose the opportunity to set Iran’s Nuke program back a few years while it’s closest regional ally is in the midst of a brutal civil war.

Also, seems the civilian population in Syria is taking it on the chin: Lack of food and medical supplies. Families are resorting to using gold to purchase whatever then can just to survive as the local economy has collapsed. Some rumors that the US and NATO may use the burgeoning humanitarian crisis as an excuse for the establishment of a No-Fly zone. Can [official] “boots on the ground” be that far away? I’m sure the British SAS and CIA are already there…

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 06:44:19

‘The real attraction here is cheap, cheap, cheap waterfront real estate: these buyers look at this and think it will never be as cheap again.’

It sounds as though the locals are getting outbid by a government-sponsored influx of foreign investor demand.

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-08-16 06:49:43

‘They were priced in the $300,000 to $400,000 range and sold out in just a few months – mostly to Canadian buyers’

Think about this statement:

‘it will never be as cheap again’

He’s saying it can only go up.

From Tuesdays post:

‘Helen Graham, president-elect of the Reno-Sparks Association of Realtors says that the changing face of Reno’s downtown, along with lower pricing and the availability to fund condo loans, is helping spur sales. ‘We are seeing a lot of young people who don’t want to be in suburbia,’ Graham says. ‘They want to walk downtown and be around other things. There has been a change to more urban living.’

Urban living; in Reno. Sound familiar? Jeebus, a condo isn’t even real estate!

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:07:11

It becomes so cheap that it makes sense on many, many levels. If you can buy a condo for $100,000 at 3.5% interest, your PI is $450/mon. Add $100 for property taxes, $200 for HOA and $50 for insurance, and your PITIH = $800.

If you visit for a week in Reno and stay in a hotel, that could be $800! Buy a condo instead!

If you have business periodically in town, buy a condo. If you live on 100 acres south of Carson, but need to get into town every now and then to bid at the cattle auction, buy a condo.

…buy a condo….it is like tossing spare change into the bowl on the dresser.

….your kids is going to UNR…..buy a condo for $100,000, rent out the second bedroom for $400 and guess what….you get to live for half the price of student housing……

….the new mantra….gotta problem…buy a condo! <;-o}….

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2012-08-16 07:18:50

Downtown Reno is a DUMP. Nobody who knows Reno wants to live downtown. NOBODY. Urine-soaked streets lined with boarded up buildings; remnants of a bygone gambling era. Have at it.

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:56:08

True, true. Areas do recover and improve over time.

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Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 09:13:20

I don’t disagree with that, but the converse also is true. Today’s upscale neighborhood could be tomorrow’s derelict slum. If anyone has the equivalent of $500,000 twenty years from now, is that person going to live in south Florida?

 
Comment by California Is Cratering
2012-08-16 09:19:31

That’s right. Todays “bay area” declines to Detroit tomorrow….. look no farther than great cities like…… Detroit, Buffalo, etc.

 
 
Comment by Montana
2012-08-16 09:23:32

I don’t understand why. I always liked Reno more than LV…thought the weather was great, true 4 seasons but more moderate than MT or LV. All the action used to be downtown and you could walk from place to place..what happened?

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Comment by AQIUS
2012-08-16 10:12:01

What happened to Reno was California casinos.

 
Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 10:55:53

….and the housing bubble stopped the sale of overpriced homes in CA, which then allowed buyers to acquire overpriced (but cheaper) homes in Reno.

I also know two people who established residences in Reno at the height of the economic bubble (2005-2008), because they saved $100,000/year on state income taxes (0% in NV vs 9.5% in CA). Interstingly, both those people have moved back to CA now that their incomes have returned to earth too.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2012-08-16 07:02:11

“‘We could reach a point where it’s not worth staying here anymore,’ said Andrews, a librarian who said he lives paycheck to paycheck. ‘We’ll move up [the state] or out of the state entirely.’”

One of Florida’s advantages used to be cheap living. You didn’t make a lot, but then again, you didn’t have to spend a lot, either, if you didn’t want to. And yet you could still enjoy yourself.

And it had areas that were somewhat pleasant.

Now, so much of it has become a hot, congested sh*thole with a growing turd world population. And the quality of the air and water is in decline.

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 07:05:33

You got it Palmetto. There are still some wonderful spots but it’s fewer every year.

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:08:32

Maybe he can move to Reno and buy a condo…..

 
Comment by sfrenter
2012-08-16 07:51:51

I prefer to live in a place where A/C and heat are not needed. We don’t have A/C and use the heat maybe 10 days out of the year.

We may go visit the grandparents in Florida this year, but I won’t go when I have to be inside all the time.

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 12:34:37

I’ll be honest with you SF. I was there in 2010 in the summer. It ranged from very hot to very cool. Not interested. But to each their own.

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Comment by SFC
2012-08-16 12:39:18

Sweating is healthy for you. I just checked - 66 right now in San Francisco, at noon? That’s freezing! Everyone in South Florida would have their heat on. Shoot, the WATER temperature in the ocean was around 87 when I was at the beach this morning. What’s the water temp in CA, 60? Give me Florida over CA any day. To each his own.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 19:34:44

The coldest winter I ever spent was the summer I was in San Francisco.

– Mark Twain

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 08:01:54

Cheap living was THE reason why people retired here. A person could retire after a blue-collar career and, with savings and a modest pension, live on a golf course or a canal, or buy a boat and fish. I could not in good conscience recommend that anyone retire to Florida now, unless the person had personal liability concerns and needed to take advantage of our state’s homestead exemption. Kind of like O.J. Simpson did after his acquittal.

It’s not even news anymore that other states like Tennessee and South Carolina aggressively have gone after retirees. Obviously my opinion is that retirement is a transient phenomenon that history will show largely was limited to Western countries during the second half of the 20th century. Perhaps, for once, we’re cutting edge: Florida got much more expensive just as Americans started becoming much poorer.

Comment by palmetto
2012-08-16 08:13:20

“Cheap living was THE reason why people retired here.”

It was the reason I moved here just to live my life. I don’t see it as such a great place to live as a retiree or older person.

Summers have always been hot here, but this summer was the worst yet, IMO. If the grid goes down here for any length of time during the summer, a lot of older people with health issues will be toast for sure.

Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 09:17:55

It’s been hot, but I wouldn’t put it in the top five of the last two decades. The worst was the summer of 2009, when I burned my feet on the sand at the beach. But you are right that without air conditioning, this climate instantly becomes lethal for many elderly people.

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Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-08-16 07:05:58

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:12:14

I don’t think people are doing the same thing today……

There is a lot of difference between buying a house for $100/SF, with a strong down payment, at a very low interest rate then fixing it up, all for less than you can rent an equivalent home….

-vs-

Buying a house for $300/SF with 100% sub prime financing with terms that will explode you into payment hell in 2-years, all for 2-3 times what it cost to rent a similar property…

These are two completely different actions and the outcomes will be much different…..

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-08-16 07:37:59

‘I don’t think people are doing the same thing today’

‘it sold for more than its $156,800 asking price.‘This place needed special financing, because there were no air conditioners, no appliances, no toilets, no cabinets in the bathrooms, no light fixtures. They ripped out the wiring and the breakers out of the electrical box. They even dug up the septic tank — dug up the septic tank,’ Brads said. ‘And we still got into a bidding war’

Go through this and add up what it will cost. AC, appliances, toilets, cabinets. fixtures, wiring, septic tank. And they paid over asking. Special financing? Who would finance this?

‘different actions and the outcomes will be much different’

No two train wrecks are the same.

Comment by Jinglemale
2012-08-16 07:59:27

I understand Ben that these people may be foolish. They will need $30-50,000 to complete the property. However, if they got 75% financing on a $160,000, their loan is $120,000 on a house in which they will have $200,000 invested. No way they will walk.

This is much different from a sub-prime $300,000 loan with nothing down and they default and live rent free for 2-years.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2012-08-16 08:17:35

‘This is much different from a sub-prime $300,000 loan with nothing down’

Yeah, it’s much worse:

‘Benefits of the Florida HARP Program’

‘No equity requirements for Florida properties!
Reduced mortgage rates under newest version of HARP.
Primary residences, second homes and investment properties all qualify!
Easier qualifying with expanded underwriting criteria.’

http://www.homeaffordablerefinanceprogram.net/harp-refinance/fl/

‘The previous plan was limited to borrowers who owe up to 25 percent more, a cap that left out many South Floridians who have seen their home values drop by 48 percent from 2006 price peaks, as measured by the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller index.’

‘Nationwide, 64,870 severely underwater homeowners have refinanced into a lower interest rate through HARP 2.0, while total HARP refinances are more than 1.4 million.’

‘About 37 percent of the HARP 2.0 refinances done by North Palm Beach-based Mortgage Resources of South Florida have been on loans that are more than 25 percent underwater, said firm president Ray Premuroso. Still, he said he’s noticed that not all lenders are willing to take on those refinances, which are considered more likely to default than a loan where there is equity in the home.’

‘A lot of companies not already servicing a loan are reluctant to refinance deeply underwater mortgages because they will be introducing themselves to a bunch of new risks that they aren’t comfortable with,” said Walters, who’s company is not refinancing loans that are more than 25 percent underwater. “We are all justifiably concerned and don’t want to put ourselves in harm’s way.’

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/loan-relief-for-deeply-underwater-homeowners-final/nRCP7/

‘more likely to default than a loan where there is equity in the home’

Ya’ think?

And there’s the ‘Subprime Sam’ loans from FHA and USDA:

‘More than 1 million Americans who have taken out mortgages in the past two years now owe more on their loans than their homes are worth, and Federal Housing Administration loans that require only a tiny down payment are partly to blame.’

‘It is a sobering indication the U.S. housing market remains deeply troubled, with home values still falling in many parts of the country, and raises the question of whether low-down payment loans backed by the FHA are putting another generation of buyers at risk.’

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/26/us-usa-housing-negative-idUSBRE83P12E20120426

 
Comment by UNKNOWN TENANT
2012-08-16 08:51:48

“they will be introducing themselves to a bunch of new risks that they aren’t comfortable with,”

That`s what Chad Johnson tried to explain to his wife.

Posted: 08/15/2012 2:33 pm

Chad Johnson (formerly Ochocinco) has lost his job, his reality show and now his wife of six weeks, Evelyn Lozada, following the NFL star’s arrest for allegedly head-butting her after she found a receipt for condoms. Lozada filed for divorce Tuesday.

Just two weeks ago, Chad was asked what he would do after his playing days were over and he said “porn,” commenting that his wife doesn’t have a choice about his next career, because he has to provide.

“Things could get worse,” warns Tanya Young, the estranged wife of incarcerated former NBA star Jayson Williams. “Sponsors could leave. That was the most expensive box of condoms ever.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/chad-johnson-arrest_n_1779149.html - -

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 09:39:50

“And there’s the ‘Subprime Sam’ loans from FHA and USDA:”

I wonder what the cross subsidy is from those who don’t qualify for these government-sponsored subprime loans to those who do?

Somebody ought to do a study…

 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 11:05:56

You always can tell when a pro athlete is declining, because his personality starts to become the story rather than his on-field accomplishments. Up next: a reality show where Chad Johnson retires from the NFL, becomes a realtor, and sells south Florida houses to clueless Canadians. And then Terrell Owens will try to one-up that by moving to Dubai.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 19:37:49

“…many South Floridians who have seen their home values drop by 48 percent from 2006 price peaks, as measured by the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller index.”

48 PERCENT DROP IN VALUES!?

NOBODY COULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING!!!

 
 
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-08-16 12:18:34

The cost of ‘dry-in’ framing on a house is about 10-20% of the cost of the house. The real costs come in finishing the house.
If the house is trashed and needs all kinds of interior repairs and replacements, they have a huge additional expense.

For those who don’t know, the reason Florida has a much more stringent Building Code is due to the Insurance Industry, not for life and safety issues, but to protect property.
They wanted shatterproof windows and roofing systems that would sustain 150 mph winds….and they got it. We all pay for it.
Water damage claims from interior and finish work and contents are what has run up the bills, not structural failures.
This “fixer-upper” will become a pig-in-a-poke.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by California Is Cratering
2012-08-16 08:07:28

And paying $100/sqft for a used house when a new one can be had for less is no different.

 
 
 
Comment by OK_Land_Lord
2012-08-16 09:54:26

Sharpie Parties!!!

The new rage!

I think the banks should be told that if they dont start unloading inventory that the security of the property can not be guranteed…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48688084

Comment by Al
2012-08-16 11:22:16

“”Usually they (the banks) leave the damage and just drop the price,” Krotic said.”

Assuming they ever get around putting them on the market. Can’t go realising those losses and messing up the bonuses.

 
 
Comment by SFC
2012-08-16 10:35:09

“Andrews said his insurance rates have increased by nearly $1,000, and the rising costs are pushing him ever closer to defaulting on his recent mortgage. ‘This is going to force out everybody who could just afford a home”

So what were his plans if he needed a new roof, or water heater, or plumbing, or his car needed work?

As I Floridian who has homeowners from a company other than Citizens, I’m forced to pay to subsidize it. It’s part of my bill. So now I’m supposed to pay more of this guy’s bill, because he bought the biggest house he qualified for?

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 11:43:34

$1,000 means a reinspection which means he got a bunch of credits he didn’t deserve. Probably the real estate agent referred the inspector who referred the insurance agent.

As far as insurance goes, we don’t have it that bad…at least not yet.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-08-16 11:06:45

Slim’s Radio Update: This Sunday, I’ll be coming down with a serious case of the blues. Don’t miss my “We’ve Got The Blues!” show at 5 p.m. MST/8 p.m. EDT on KXCI’s Broad Perspectives Radio. That’s 91.3 FM on your radio dial, or you can check out the live stream at KXCI.org.

Comment by snake charmer
2012-08-16 12:14:23

Is this a regular weekly program Slim? I have a prior commitment and will miss it, but I’d love to hear you.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-08-16 12:32:29

Well, for three out of four Sundays this month,it is my show. And for at least two Sundays in September.

If you can’t hear me this Sunday, well, there’s August 26. That’s when the Rock -n- Roll Women come crashing back onto the KXCI airwaves. Tune in at at 5 p.m. MST/8 p.m. EDT for Broad Perspectives Radio. That’s 91.3 FM on your Tucson radio dial, or you listen live on the Interwebs.

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-08-16 12:36:25

I miss my radio days from college. I almost got a gig afterwards. Could have changed my life’s direction.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-08-16 18:03:43

Is there a chance that R&R would take a radically different approach to housing, especially given the patent unfairness of tapping up U.S. tax dollars to prop up the value of foreigner’s U.S. real estate investments?

I pay taxes out of each and every pay check, and would strongly prefer not to see them deliberately handed over to foreign real estate investors.

Romney and Ryan both say they want housing market to “hit bottom”
By Jon Ralston
Tuesday, Aug. 14, 2012 | 10:57 a.m.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan used remarkably similar verbiage to describe their approach to the crippled housing market, with each suggesting in separate interviews almost a year apart that the market should be allowed to “hit bottom.”

Ryan made his remarks first on Charlie Rose’s program in 2010 and Romney followed with those now-infamous words to the Las Vegas Review Journal last year. Play the Ryan clip back to back with the Romney clip and you will notice the similarities.

The plus: They are sympatico on letting the market, rather than government intervention, solve the problem.

The minus: In a place like Nevada, where most people have problems with their mortgage, that may not sell as well as a government gift.

 
Comment by UNKNOWN TENANT
2012-08-17 05:57:09

“While Bock’s campaign contributions of $67,990 as of Aug. 8 were more than double what Epstein raised,”

60 Minutes serial refinancing robo signed Lynn Syzmoniak the whistleblower who got $18 million couldn`t help out her Deadbeat foreclosure fighting friend Lisa Epstein of foreclosurefraud.com and Bradley`s of Palm Beach monthly Deadbeat meet and greet with a little cha-ching? LMAO Old Lynn wasn`t looking out for her fellow Beats, Old Lynn the corporate lawyer whose $1 million refied house payment “unexpectidly” rose causing her to stop making her payments is out for Old Lynn.

Like alpha said, “she nailed it”. Now to hell with her fellow victims.

Posted: 8:42 p.m. Tuesday, Aug. 14, 2012

Palm Beach County Clerk and Comptroller Sharon Bock By Kimberly Miller

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Palm Beach County Clerk of Court Sharon Bock won her seat for a third term Tuesday despite her opponent’s grass-roots effort that was buoyed by homeowner advocates.

Foreclosure fighter Lisa Epstein, a former oncology nurse, took on Bock in a first run for public office because she wanted to hold banks and attorneys more accountable for filing flawed documents in foreclosure cases.

But her base of active supporters wasn’t enough to unseat Bock.

Epstein, 46, helped bring foreclosures to a halt in the fall of 2010 as a researcher and blogger uncovering so-called “robo-signed” documents.

Bock, who was first elected in 2004, said Epstein was a one-issue candidate with little understanding about what the clerk’s office does or how to manage its $48.6 million budget.

In addition to overseeing public records, the clerk acts as the county’s chief financial officer, treasurer and auditor. The office is also charged with investing and earning revenue on county funds and maintaining the records of the Palm Beach County Commission.

While Bock’s campaign contributions of $67,990 as of Aug. 8 were more than double what Epstein raised, Epstein did collect $200 from Neil Barofsky, the former inspector general of the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program, and $500 from fired former Florida assistant attorney general and foreclosure fraud investigator Theresa Edwards.

 
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