The Housing Bubble

“After experiencing the joy of loanownership in Palm Beach County ($75,000 gain on a SFR in less than a year in 2004-2005) and in Broward (escaping a $40,000 underwater condo in 2007 via short sale),”

Heads I win tails you lose.

Textbook!

“They are now, either shutters or impact windows.”

That is somehow reassuring. I guess the news footage of guys scrambling to buy construction materials and build shutters the day before the storm is mainly for entertaining MSM-news viewers, rather than an accurately describing most Floridians’ hurricane readiness?

“They are now, either shutters or impact windows.”

New construction. I believe anything built since 2002 has to have one or the other.

“With the billions of guns already in the world, a gun ban isn’t going to work anywhere”

My British policeman brother-in-law begs to differ with you. He never carried a gun himself.

Cops in the US would not have to carry a gun either.

If everyone here was British.

Welcome to the grand world of multiculturalism - where all cultures are equal. And cops carry M-16s…

My British policeman brother-in-law begs to differ with you. He never carried a gun himself.

Brit police are worthless.

?

?

This is just more of his hypocrisy. He spends so much time pointing out the weaknesses and holes in the arguments of people who disagree with him, that the false techniques (ad hominem, straw man, invective, etc.) he says these people use have infected his brain so that he continually uses the techniques himself without even knowing it. Here, he’s calling you Paul Ryan. He’s clearly guilty of doing exactly what he claims to despise in people he disagrees with.

It’s like if you start talking to a spot on the wall all the time. Eventually the spot will talk back. I suspect the same thing has gone on is his head because he posts so frequently and at all hours due to his obsession. The more he posts, the more sure he is in his self-righteousness and his message.

He is everything he hates and he doesn’t even know it - can’t even begin to know it.

Paul Ryan? lol.

Sorry but anyone dumb enough to believe the liberal-conservative model of American politics gets everything they deserve. Does anyone who is liberal-leaning here believe that Obama cares about the plight of the American people? Does anyone here believe that Romney feels any differently? You people who buy into this delude yourselves.

Take the NDAA ‘12 for example. You, as an American citizen, can be deemed a threat to national security and then detained indefinitely. Do you think Romney or Obama care about your civil liberties enough to vote that down?

The more he posts, the more sure he is in his self-righteousness and his message ??

You talking about Pbear MViking ??

Because, if so, you have your head up your a$$…Pbear other than Ben himself has brought more beneficial information to this blog then the rest of us combined…

“Do you think Romney or Obama care about your civil liberties enough to vote that down?”

We’re sliding towards dictatorship, with each little slip irrevocable because the PTB gain no advantage by restoring freedoms, once rescinded.

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

– Sir John Dalberg-Acton

We’re sliding towards dictatorship, with each little slip irrevocable because the PTB gain no advantage by restoring freedoms, once rescinded.

Having a Dem in the white house has lured the left into complacency. Had McCain won and been doing everything that Obama is doing, they would be in a tizzy (as they ought to be).

I don’t like knee-jerk partisanship, irregardless of which side it’s coming from.

“I don’t like knee-jerk partisanship, irregardless of which side it’s coming from”

I think you are posting in the right place, then.

Which oligarch are you planning to vote for, Obama or Romney?

Which oligarch are you planning to vote for, Obama or Romney?

I HATE that those are my only choices. Truly hate it. But to quote a recent internet meme, “You’re an idiot if you have a vagina and vote Republican”.

“You’re an idiot if you have a vagina and vote Republican”.

Lots of Mormon women out there beg to differ, and I am pretty sure that Romney will generally capture the conservative Christian female vote.

Romney will generally capture the conservative Christian female vote ??

I would not be so sure….They go into the voting booth by themselves and they have daughters & granddaughters so I tend to agree with sfrenter….

He is everything he hates and he doesn’t even know it - can’t even begin to know it.

You sound funny - like my roomate who was taking Psychology 101. (and didn’t like his mom)

“Paul Ryan? lol.”

Thanks for acknowledging my feeble attempt at humor. Some posters around here could find a lot more cheer in life if they recognized that most of my posts are intended to get a chuckle.

“Half of all U.S. wage-earners pay no income tax. Yet that half and their families receive free education K-12, Medicaid, rent supplements, food stamps, earned income tax credits, Pell grants, welfare payments, unemployment checks and other benefits.

Why should poor, working- and middle-class Hispanics, the vast majority, vote for a party that will reduce taxes they don’t pay, but cut the benefits they do receive?”

Is this accurate? If so, I am shocked. How did our system reach the point where a massive subpopulation subsists under the radar screen, playing by a completely different set of rules than govern the rest of the country?

It seems to me that these parties are not so much political movements as they are old clubs. They don’t have much to offer to me.

‘Is this accurate’

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-10-06/income-tax-nonpayment/50676912/1

‘According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C., 46% of tax filers will owe no federal income tax this year. In 2010, a married couple filing jointly didn’t have to pay any income taxes if their income was less than $18,700; couples older than 65, if their income was $20,900 or less. And even if you make more than that, the standard deduction — which goes up each year — and a myriad of other deductions and tax breaks reduce income tax exposure. In 2009, the most recent year for which Internal Revenue Service data is available, filers with adjusted gross income of less than $30,000 made up 83% of all the nontaxable returns. According to the Tax Policy Center’s calculator, a couple with two kids younger than 13 that makes $30,000 would get $5,000 back under current laws.’

This article goes on to say:

‘But when you figure in payroll taxes — such as those for Social Security, Medicare and unemployment — more than 80% of tax filers pay some kind of federal tax. And that doesn’t include sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, etc., which catch just about everyone.’

Here’s how that figures into what Buchanan is saying; some of these taxes are out of DC’s hands, and others aren’t what the GOP focuses on. They primarily say cut income taxes (which many people don’t pay) and cut services (which many people receive). If you look at the demographics he’s stating, it’s a losing battle for a nationwide contest. So Republicans will not disappear. They’ll win local, state and federal elections. But the way the electoral college is set up, this approach won’t work for the presidency.

Now, how long can this no income tax/still get benefits arrangement go on? It’s not sustainable.

He mentions other stuff, like the GOP being too socially restrictive for states like California (gay marriage, etc) and having lost the cultural war of the 60’s (fewer Christians/religious voters). But all in all, I think he’s pointed out a serious weakness for the GOP, as it stands today.

political bowel movements

“According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C., 46% of tax filers will owe no federal income tax this year. In 2010, a married couple filing jointly didn’t have to pay any income taxes if their income was less than $18,700; couples older than 65, if their income was $20,900 or less.”

It seems like our tax law is designed to drive middle-class households into the upper class, where they might be able to limit tax liability through clever tax-avoidance techniques such as sending money offshore, or to the lower class, where they may be able to avoid taxes by not making enough money.

Middle-class families appear to be the dupes in this equation. Small wonder they are a vanishing breed.

the party, intimidated by name-calling, refused to stop a tidal wave of immigration that brought 40 million people here whose families depend heavily on government

And who were a source of cheap labor.

Let’s not kid ourselves. The GOP and countless “Chambers of Commerce” wanted these people to come and work for cheap. Just like Corporate America, which refuses to look past the next few quarter’s numbers and make long term plans, the GOP refused to see the long term consequences of its actions and imported a poor underclass that will eventually vote for the opposition. What is hilarious is that I know Republicans who really believed that the Hispanics would eventually vote GOP for the “family values”. Maybe the middle class ones might, and even then only a minority would.

I disagree with Pat on quite a few things, but almost everything I’ve heard him say was smart and honest. I wish there were more conservatives like him.

the GOP refused to see the long term consequences of its actions

I think they do and did, and are quite content to continue playing both sides of the immigration hypocrisy.

“…Race, age and ethnicity are at the heart of the problem….”

Buchanan then goes on to tell us that Hispanics, young people, and recent immigrants are the reason the GOP is on the decline, because they can vote themselves benefits without paying for them.

Well, yes, and no. Immigrant populations typically don’t become well-established (read: financially solvent) for the first few generations. Brits, Irish, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, Cubans, Vietnamese, and now rural Mexicans have all gone through periods of establishing themselves into the mainstream (federal taxpaying) population*. But after a few generations when they do, they become part of the group that gets to bitch about those freeloading non-federal-tax-paying kids and recent immigrant groups.

“No”, because Buchanan and his ilk are silly old men who can’t come to grips with the fact that their time has come and gone — and their idea of what constitutes an American is increasingly irrelevant. (See: anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-Semetic, anti-union, anti-anything-not-a-white-xtian-taxpaying, male-who-votes-Republican.)

*Some of the wealthiest families in the Central and Napa Valleys are of Mexican extraction. And they’re as Republican as they come.

“Young man, when you have something to conserve, you TOO will be a conservative.”
-Grandmother Seeley (to my then-ardent Democratic father)

I wish there were more conservatives like him.

They gave up…..they were called racists and bigoted and they just quit. They are so PC these days, they are even trying to kick the Akin guy out of the party for saying a stupid thing.

‘What is hilarious is that I know Republicans who really believed that the Hispanics would eventually vote GOP for the “family values”.’

As Pat Buchanan astutely observed, the prospect of reduced free stuff with the same (zero) taxes is likely to drive many Hispanic voters away from the Republican platform.

‘can’t come to grips with the fact that their time has come and gone’

Read Buchanan’s Death of the West, and you might see that a lot of things people think exist have come and gone.

When you import tens of millions of extremely poor people (to make rich white guys even richer) who cannot properly read and write in their own language, let alone a new one, it creates a massive financial and social burden upon society. We are feeling it.

And here’s more proof that the Democratic Party is the party of Parasites (more backdoor manuevering for “hispanic” votes):

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/19/usda-partnering-with-mexico-to-boost-food-stamp-participation/

That’s right, OUR USDA is working with Mexico to get more Mexicans on Food Stamps (SNAP Program), whether Legal, illegal, immigrant or just visiting. Free food for Mexicans, courtesy of Us.

” poor, working- and middle-class Hispanics, the vast majority”

The vast majority of all ethnicities are poor, working, or middle class. This statement shows a lack of understanding of demographics.

Why should any poor, working, or middle class person vote for a party that doesn’t support its interests? Hence the party of God, guns, and gays.

The vast majority of all ethnicities are poor, working, or middle class……..
I guess no truer statement could be made. MOST everyone (White/black/Asian)in the Country is either poor, working or middle-class…..that’s everyone but the rich or the super-rich.
What a stupid claim to make.

This article put it much more succinctly:

“Today, the ruling class knows that they’ve lost the culture wars. And unlike with our parents, they can’t count on weeping eagles and the stars ‘n bars to get us to fall in line.”

http://exiledonline.com/its-hip-its-cool-its-libertarianism/

anyone dumb enough to believe the liberal-conservative model of American politics gets everything they deserve.

There is no difference.

GOP: From Grand Old Party to Greater Order of Psychopaths

http://www.allthingsdemocrat.com/2012/05/gop-from-grand-old-party-to-greater-order-of-psychopaths/

You can kiss the “Grand Old Party” goodbye- they have officially become the Greater Order of Psychopaths; un-medicated, out of control, and dangerous, the lunatics are literally calling for the murder of Democratic politicians while their spineless leaders say nothing. According to St. LouisToday,

proof that the Democratic Party is the party of Parasites

Offshore bank accounts, outsourcing jobs, 13% paid in federal taxes, scared sh!tle$$ to show his tax returns and the presidential nominee.

Now which party is the party of parasites?

‘the GOP refused to see the long term consequences of its actions’

The way some are looking at this reminds me of aladinsane being so happy newspapers were going out of business. Remember this; we won’t have a one party system, as much as some of you might want that. Chances are, something will take root in the failing party. It might be better. It might be a lot worse. Personally, I’d like to see several more choices on the ballot box.

Another thing to consider; it is the two party bloc that protects a lot of sacred cows. Should that bloc break apart, we might see some real change. Change that some of you democrats won’t like. And that some of us independents would like!

Anyhoo, this country is broke, so big changes are coming.

“Greater Order of Psychopaths”

Like Mama Grizzly, for instance?

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ blood is on Sarah Palin’s hands after putting cross hair over district
BY MICHAEL DALY
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, January 09, 2011

Here is what Sarah Palin said on the Facebook page where she depicted Gabrielle Giffords in the cross hairs of a rifle scope: “Don’t retreat! Instead - RELOAD!”

Well, the guy who shot Giffords yesterday managed to keep firing until he killed six, including a child and wounded 13 .

Palin would no doubt say that she was only speaking in metaphor, that she only meant her followers should work to unseat Giffords and 19 other Democrats who had roused her ire by voting for health care.

But anyone with any sense at all knows that violent language can incite actual violence, that metaphor can incite murder. At the very least, Palin added to a climate of violence.

Palin should have taken it as a warning of what might happen when a Tea Party hothead dropped a gun while heckling Giffords at an earlier Congress On Your Corner event, more than a year ago.

That did not stop Palin from declaring Giffords a “target.” Giffords’ district office was subsequently vandalized and the congresswoman noted that Palin had put “the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district.”

“When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action,” Giffords said.
…

The same arguments some are making here were made by our forebears; “illiterate Irish taking all our jobs”, “poor dumb Swedes”, “dirty Polaks and Kikes”, “yellow peril”, lazy Nigrahs/Mexicans/Somalians” and yet over the generations Irish, Swedes, Polish, Jews, Hispanics, and American black and Asian people have all become successful, taxpaying members of our citizenry.

As we bemoan all the greedy mouths sucking on the government teat, let us remember that poor white trash account for beaucoup entitlements– as do very rich white trash of the “proper” ancestry and political leanings.

I, too, am working hard for the day when we again have a representative democracy. Weighted elections would be an excellent start; then even oddballs like We the HBB could have an elected voice in Congress….

“That’s right, OUR USDA is working with Mexico to get more Mexicans on Food Stamps (SNAP Program), whether Legal, illegal, immigrant or just visiting.”

From the article you cited:

“The partnership with the Mexican embassy was established in 2004,” a USDA spokesman wrote The Daily Caller in an email. “USDA does not perform outreach to immigrants that are undocumented, and therefore not eligible for SNAP.”

“Anyhoo, this country is broke, so big changes are coming.”

There is a political third rail which I expect to never hear discussed by either presidential candidate amid the constant bickering over birth certificates, abortion, Medicare, gun rights, personal morality, etc etc etc…

“Anyhoo, this country is broke, so big changes are coming.”

You mean the gubmint might not be backing mortgage loans much longer?!

‘As we bemoan all the greedy mouths sucking on the government teat, let us remember that poor white trash account for beaucoup entitlements– as do very rich white trash of the “proper” ancestry and political leanings.’

Somebody ought to tally up how many billions of dollars the (”private” ) TBTF Megabanks and other bailout beneficiaries were able to milk out of the financial system, thanks to Uncle Sam’s generosity. I’m guessing it swamps out all the payments to the so-called ‘Free-shit Army’ that were ever made over the entire history of the U.S.A.

let us remember that poor white trash account for beaucoup entitlements

And they usually (especially the males) vote Republican- against their own economic interests. That’s the reason the GOP plays the god, guns, and gays card.

So?

Dont worry Polly….political correctness is almost dead….so it will be my time to shine!

Its all about thinking backwards….you have all these murders and all these thugs in jail how did they get there….at least i offer some possible solutions…

What does a blogspot blog about people without law degrees doing work related to law have to do with you? There have always been jobs like that. Tons of them actually. Go out and get one if you can. Oh, wait, you have to be able to write to get those jobs.

Dj. Your problem isn’t the political correctness in the world. Your problem is that you expect the government to pay for you to get retrained so you can do something useful. Either start your own business (I already gave you one idea) or pay for own training, or learn how to network your way into a job or fix your attitude and start at the bottom somewhere. You are nothing special. You are going to have to make your way in the world like all the other people who don’t have skills that are actually in demand.

Polly so companies refuse to do this, and government cuts job training funds to almost ZERO…. and I cannot afford to take out a loan…….or i’m afraid to be in debt…

oh and you cant work for free…..FLSA ya know.

Were screwed right?

Oh i might have some news later this week…self emloyment
—–
Why don’t you try hiring them out of school for less money and training them up to the standards of the industry certification?

Being in a tough spot doesn’t mean you get what ever you want from the government, dj.

Oh, and “political correctness” doesn’t mean what you think it means. I have never seen you use the phrase properly.

By the way, companies refuse to do what? No antecedent means that what you wrote is meaningless.

Oh what does PC mean? and what does diversity of opinion mean?

It means diversity INCLUDES me! And that questions pertaining to to race, color, creed, sex, or anything else is NOT off limits…

Ohbama has brought millions of black racists out of the closet for all of us to see and throw up over. And that is not a good thing.

Oh, and “political correctness” doesn’t mean what you think it means. I have never seen you use the phrase properly.

Organized Orwellian intolerance and stupidity, disguised as compassionate liberalism.

Political correctness is most well known as an institutional excuse for the harassment and exclusion of people with differing political views.

And dj is wrong. Again.

“Political correctness is a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, certain other religions, beliefs or ideologies, disability, and age-related contexts, and, as purported by the term, doing so to an excessive extent.”

So it means using terms like black and African American not colored or the n-word. It means speaking politely, perhaps to an extreme extent. You, on the other hand, constantly ask for hand outs and call other people morons when all they are doing is their jobs according to company policy. The end of political correctness wouldn’t help you even the tiniest little bit. And it isn’t going to happen anyway.

What in the 1980’s was called “political correctness” was previously known as “good manners”. Today we call it a “social marker” at which some are remarkably adept in defining.

Wait — wasn’t it called “Trickle Down Theory”? When did this “Trickle UP Theory” come into play?

That was freakin’ hilarious, money. Thanks.

It’s not about how you earn your money, it’s about what you do with it.

So simple yet never sinks in either.

“A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man.”

Lana Turner

“It’s not about how you earn your money, it’s about what you do with it.”

Better known as the working poor.

The real issue is being “poor.” A good portion of your taxes are consumed by the poor who unfortunately consume much more than many working families produce because they’re usually in jail, getting hurt and using heath services, over producing children, etc., which is why maybe half of your county’s workforce are employed in “services.” The poor aren’t poor because of a lack of money. If that were true then the local welfare agency could simply cut these folks a check for a years worth of benefits, and lay-off the army of “service” employees saving the taxpayers a bundle. No, the poor are a daily headache.

The game men play is money. The game women play is men.

I love these old fashioned quotes from the “Mad Men” days!

I became a stand-up comedienne because I had a sit-down husband.

– Phyllis Diller

IMO it’s now OWNING it’s CONTROLLING. You don’t need to own a business to make the big bucks, you just need to control it.

Allow stockholders (the true owners) to pay all your expenses and, if you are in control of the company, you are all set. That’s because, as the person in control, it is you who gets to decide what expenses the company has to shoulder. Do this properly and EVERYTHING you do gets expensed to the company.

wake up my friend. start a business and make some real money.

But I realize it takes skill to run a business. most people cannot handle it. Much easier to punch the time clock.

Really? “Start a business”? Just like that huh? It’s easy right?

Thank you for reminding me why you and people like you are part of the 95% business failure rate.

keep punchn the clock player and whining cause houses are overpriced.

a failure is never trying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn’t about me kiddo so don’t make it about me.

Step up and substantiate your claim.

It’s not about me either player. I state the fact that most wealthy people run their own show.

What is your doomsday prediction for housing today? should we all just throw in the towel?

Most “self employed” people I know want a job, but can’t get one because they are too old or unskilled. So they end up selling insurance, cutting people’s hair, grooming dogs, giving massages, fixing cars on the side, etc.

And when they get sick they can’t afford to see a doctor or buy non generics at the pharmacy.

What is your doomsday prediction for housing today? should we all just throw in the towel?

And what the heck does “throwing in the towel” look like?

Does that mean:

1. Don’t invest in housing (again, the average American, myself included, does not have the extra cash to invest in much of anything)
2. Rent indefinitely (nice gig if you can find cheap rent with a decent landlord - easier said than done in some places)
3. Live under a bridge
4. Live in your parent’s basement and make fun of other people who need a place to live and are wondering what’s the best plan of action

“And what the heck does ‘throwing in the towel’ look like?”

It may look like you are playing the wrong game.

Maybe it’s time to play your own game - one that benifits you - rather than play a game set up by strangers.

Maybe it’s time to play your own game - one that benifits you - rather than play a game set up by strangers.

My landlord’s game has really not benefited me.

My side business (dog training = cash and lucrative) has had to be entirely underground. LL had a freak out about liability when she saw me on Yelp and now we are entirely word of mouth.

Owning my own place means being able to also board dogs. Good money here in SF ($50+ night per dog).

“1. Don’t invest in housing (again, the average American, myself included, does not have the extra cash to invest in much of anything)”

Buying a home on a mortgage is investing in housing. Alternatively, you could rent for less money and long-term commitment, and invest the difference between ownership costs and rent in an asset class that is less likely to lose money over the next few years than housing is.

“2. Rent indefinitely (nice gig if you can find cheap rent with a decent landlord - easier said than done in some places)”

Renting offers flexibility which home ownership eliminates:
If you don’t like your landlord, you can relocate. If you can’t afford your rent, you can move to cheaper digs. If you lose your job, you can find one in another city without facing the difficulty of selling a home with an underwater mortgage.

“3. Live under a bridge”

4. Live in your parent’s basement and make fun of other people who need a place to live and are wondering what’s the best plan of action”

Your strawman options 3. and 4. are irrelevant for people like yourself who are sufficiently wealthy to face the joint rent-or-own/location-choice decision.

I don’t mean to seem harsh, but your real problem seems to be that you expect to be able to live in one of the world’s most expensive cities for cheap. I’m quite certain that if you were willing to relocate to, say, North Dakota, that you could easily find good-paying jobs and affordable living costs, including housing, but you want to live in San Francisco. There’s really nothing wrong with that, except you should recognize the choices you are making, rather than always playing the victim.

“My side business (dog training = cash and lucrative) has had to be entirely underground.
…
Owning my own place means being able to also board dogs. Good money here in SF ($50+ night per dog).”

I hit the send key on my long post above before considering this additional information. Having an underground (aka tax-free) income source changes the picture considerably.

“I’m quite certain that if you were willing to relocate to, say, North Dakota, that you could easily find good-paying jobs and affordable living costs, including housing”

I would not be so sure about finding cheap housing in North Dakota. I talked to a lady at the farmer’s market yesterday who sold her decrepit RV to someone in North Dakota for 10x what she thought it was worth. He had been unable to find any housing in the oil patch.

rather than always playing the victim

Make no mistake, there’s money in them thar dogs. 1/3 of households here have pups. And disposable income.

Complaining that housing costs are too high is not playing the victim.

If that were true, then everyone on this blog is guilty of victimhood. It was a bubble. Duh. It still is a bubble. Double duh. WTF is your problem?

Raise your hand if you think housing should be more expensive.

I didn’t think so.

“…oil patch…”

Perhaps North Dakota was the wrong example. I merely meant that there are plenty of cheaper places to live around the U.S. than San Francisco, or San Diego for that matter. I understand SFRenter’s plight altogether too well, having personally lived it for over a decade already. Nearly all my siblings and inlaws own larger homes than the one we rent, bought at a fraction of what our rental would sell for, even after a $150,000 haircut. Lil’ Sis and hubby are about to start constructing a third home, in addition to the two they already own free and clear. I am starting to believe that by the end of the day, they are actually going to make money on their austerity-plan version* of real estate investing in a low-price housing market.

* Inherited wealth enabling no-debt financing, and very frugal lifestyle, except for relatively lavish expenditures on unneeded living space.

“What is your doomsday prediction for housing today?”

Falling housing prices to dramatically lower levels is “doomsday”?

You’re a goddamn lying pimp.

“Make no mistake, there’s money in them thar dogs.”

Can you get 2 or 3 mortgage payments out of thar dogs every year? Or does it evaporate when thine dogs need to be sat while you are on jaunts every year?

Prices in Bodie aren’t falling.

“keep punchn the clock player and whining cause houses are overpriced.”

Hey, another call girl manager, they are really starting to stack up.

heh…. call girl manager….. nice.

Does that require an MBA…Master of Booty Administration?

You make an assumption that may or may not be true, based on the evidence.
I have a friend who has been in business for decades. The Bill collectors (creditors) have been hounding him since he started.
Why?
Simple. He is a late pay. Always.
His reasoning is simple. He can use the money he owes them to invest in additional equipment or inventory that he may be able to turn over 2 or 3 times before he REALLY has to pay the bill.
And since he has always paid 90 days late, he still gets credited for his inventory, because, well, he eventually pays.
He simply ignores the collection calls.
It’s been his business strategy and has worked for him in his line of business. May not work everywhere. May not work for others, but he has managed to stay in business for a very long time.

“does anyone really make any real money working for someone else?

Most of the wealthy people in the country run their own business. people punching time clocks seem to be the ones who are broke.

Can everybody be wealthy? What percentage of the population makes “real money”? Most of those who run their own business are broke and most new businesses fail in the first 5 years, further impoverishing their owners in the process.

There are some small businesses who can succeed by various tricks, including underpaying their employees or paying them under the table, late paying their suppliers, underpaying taxes by running personal expenses through the business (e.g. Buying cars through the business, home offices, computers and software, cell phones, business lunches, attending conferences in destination resorts). These small businesses are not yet viable on their own or are succeeding by undercutting competitors who are running their businesses right.

There are a larger number of people who are reasonably successful while employed by medium to large companies or by governmental entities (including schools) than are making “real money” through owning their own businesses.

Most of those who run their own business are broke and most new businesses fail in the first 5 years, further impoverishing their owners in the process.

A friend lost a bundle on a espresso joint. He gave it his all for 5 years, working there every day (in addition to his day job) for over 5 years. He lost money every year until he threw in the towel. His coffee was far superior to Starbucks, yet the Starbucks down the street had ten times the business he did.

Simple. He is a late pay. Always.

It was a credit card company, not the local NAPA store.

A friend lost a bundle on a espresso joint.

A friend of mind lost a bundle on a gym. His business model was creating the gym that he wanted to be a member of, rather than one designed to separate New-Years-Resolution types from their money. He failed to understand that was the only way to make real money at it.

It is a lot easier to make a go of a new business if you don’t expect it to pay your living expenses for the first few years. A lot of the small retail establishments are started by women after their children are in school who have a husband that takes care of expenses and insurance. And women sometimes take the grocery or retail job solely for the insurance benefits, so hubby can make a go of a business.

I may actually be able to earn a part time living as a small business person after 65, if I can count on SS to pay my bills and Medicare to take care of my health insurance. Even though I am over the magic age of 55, I consider that a big if. Inflation or the Republicans may make either a pipe dream in the next 30 years.

My inability to conform has served me well, oddly enough.

“You cannot compete with those who afford themselves things before they earn them. If you cannot figure out how to live unconventionally, then you pretty much volunteered for the screwing.”

Disagree. I have bought several cars and 6 trucks that were financed and paid them all off. I bought a place to live with a mortgage and came within $20k of paying it off before I sold it. What the vehicles and the place to live had in common was I could afford them. The vehicles I bought were not Lamborginis nor were they F150s that carried the price tag of a Lamborgini. The place I bought and lived in for 20 years was not a mansion nor did it have the price tag of a mansion.

This… Where are the houses? BS is not a screwing that I or a lot of other people volunteered for, it is a srewing we got from TPTB and their First Time Homebuyer tax credit Hardest Hit HAMP HARP never ending bailout programs taking care of the Too Big to Fail and too well connected to be prosecuted banksters and the Donald Trump wannabe heads I win tails you lose serial refinancing victims.

“Apparantly well-educated Russians were able enough to piece together the real story behind the lines of systemicatic propaganda.”

Well-educated = able enough to piece together the real story.

IMO this is what an education is supposed to be all about, but somehow it ended up being about collecting degrees.

‘free shows during SXSW’

I stayed home until SXSW was over.

“If you were at the shoe store and a mob was fighting to pay more for the shoes you wanted, what would you do? I’d walk out. I don’t understand all these ‘forced to pay more’ ‘overbid each other’ lines. Just don’t play their game.”

What if your last pair of shoes just fell apart and you truly needed a pair of shoes? Should you just go barefoot until the mania ends?

Those of you who already own or have a rental that works for you (or live in a place with affordable rentals) can choose to not play their game.

The idea that someone is a pimp or a BS artist because they need to find a place to live is disingenuous.

Seems that there are two types of posters here: investors and those with housing choices (ie., ability to not play the game, move from cheap rental to cheap rental, move-in with family, etc.) and those of us who are older and have families, medical conditions, stable jobs, pets, roots and communities AND simply need stable, affordable, long-term shelter.

The idea that these 2 lifestyles and financial situations are interchangeable is simplistic, at best.

“What if your last pair of shoes just fell apart and you truly needed a pair of shoes? Should you just go barefoot until the mania ends?”

1. Aside from bowling shoes and ice skates, there generally is no rental market for shoes, as they are consumption goods, not investment.

2. How does having a medical condition make it advantageous to lock yourself into an overpriced home purchase, as opposed to renting, where you can rent a cheaper place going forward if necessary to adjust to a less favorable future financial position?

they are consumption goods

Housing is a consumption good, IMO.

This is especially true for those of us (the majority of the US population) that do not have any or much money to invest.

The fact that housing has become an investment vehicle (trading houses, flipping and betting on mortgage debt) is what got us into this mess in the first place.

“a pimp or a BS artist because they need to find a place…..”

It’s not that at all. If you brag about “buying” and you really just borrowed, you’re a poser. Brag after you’ve paid the sucker off in 2042. If you brag about buying now when houses are such a great deal, then you are delusional. If you brag about how you’re going to get rich, let us know when you have the profits in hand, otherwise it’s just BS.

If you just need a big stick built so your kids can play ball in the great room, go for it.

If you brag about “buying” and you really just borrowed

I don’t notice people bragging their purchases except for Jinglebell. What I detect is they know in their heart of heart it’s a mania, but try to convince rest of us that it’s different for them.

Time will tell I suppose…..

“What if your last pair of shoes just fell apart and you truly needed a pair of shoes? Should you just go barefoot until the mania ends?”

I’d mug somebody and take his newly-won shoes if things were that desperate. Unfortunately that won’t work with a house.

Unfortunately that won’t work with a house.

You must have heard of house squatters.

If you brag about “buying” and you really just borrowed, you’re a poser. Brag after you’ve paid the sucker off in 2042. If you brag about buying now when houses are such a great deal, then you are delusional. If you brag about how you’re going to get rich, let us know when you have the profits in hand, otherwise it’s just BS.

I also haven’t seen much bragging, at least not from anyone here who has bought for a primary residence.

Those who are buying as an investment or to landlord, well, that’s a different story.

“Housing is a consumption good, IMO.”

I’m sorry you did not get far enough in your education to take an introductory economics course, where you would have learned the difference between consumption and investment.

P.S. To help you out ever so slightly, renting a home is consumption; buying a home on a 30-year payment plan is investment.

You must have heard of house squatters.

Did that already. NYC, London, Copenhagen.

It was fun. But I was 20, childless, single, and had a mohawk back then.

I’m sorry you did not get far enough in your education to take an introductory economics course, where you would have learned the difference between consumption and investment.

If I’m not counting on the house I buy to appreciate and my monthly PITI is less than renting, then it’s not an investment FOR ME. It is shelter.

I understand that I am actually not buying, but renting money from the bank. No hubris here.

I also understand that physical structures depreciate over time. I am a DIY kinda person, and actually enjoy tinkering, fixing, troubleshooting and building.

Life goes on.

“…then it’s not an investment FOR ME.”

I believe the economic definition of “investment” as “the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth” is far more useful for personal financial management than the financial notion of investment as buying something now in the expectation of selling it for a higher price later and pocketing the proceeds. Most households don’t appear to carefully consider the tradeoff between short- and long-term financial commitments in their decisions.

When describe home ownership as an “investment,” I am referring to the long-term financial commitment aspect, not the capital gains prospect.

“I am a DIY kinda person, and actually enjoy tinkering, fixing, troubleshooting and building.”

That plus the doggy hotel business help explain your decision. I don’t envy you — I frankly cannot imagine owning a home in SF. I have wealthy friends who have rented there for years, in a rent-controlled dwelling. It seems like the SF liberals have created a whacked-out system of law that pretty much ensures the housing market there will remain permanently FUBAR.

Man……..I’m just glad I live in a place where house prices only go up. It’s different here because the economic model is based on a new paradigm. I think because of the beach and women are in really good shape and the socialism in the public hospitals.

Plus the hookers are good looking and free

“You must be pretty well off.”

Or there are plenty of gullible Canadians.

“You must be pretty well off.”

Nope, but plenty of people want a cute little place by the beach, and $220-$250k seems to be the going price for 1,000 sq. ft.

$180k is my number, so I actually do believe I am priced out for now… at least until the numerous zombie houses clear.

But hey, at least one zombie house supplies me with parking space during floods.

My rent 1,100 x 120 = 132 = roughly $100/sq. ft.

I would buy my place for $130k tomorrow. It’s actually 350 sq.ft. bigger than the other joint the ‘Nadians just bought for $250k.

I am not participating in that nonsense. BTW, they closed during Tropical Storm Debby. I have no idea how that worked.

‘Or there are plenty of gullible Canadians’

Well, that’s a really high per sq ft number.

‘plenty of people want a cute little place by the beach’

I used to live on a barrier island in the gulf of Mexico. Nothing wears out a house like being near the ocean. Then there’s the insurance, hurricanes.

“I used to live on a barrier island in the gulf of Mexico. Nothing wears out a house like being near the ocean. Then there’s the insurance, hurricanes.”

I don’t disagree with you at all, and I’m not saying this place is special. I am, however, acknowledging that this type of place seems to continuously draw people that are willing to overpay to “be by the beach.” Like NYC… I do think it’s fair to say that there are some places that will never see fundamentals. Wen I lived in NYC, I can’t tell you how many 20-somethings were subsidized by their mid-west parents.

Anyway, the guy that replaced our A/C couldn’t believe how messed up it was. The coils were falling off like leaves. I know how nasty the salt air is.

Rust, don’t forget rust.

The ocean breeze picks up trillions of minute droplets of salt water from the breaking surf and the wind blows them landward and drops them everywhere. The closer you are to the coastline the more of these salty droplets you will get.

Go inland a bit and there will be no droplets.

“Nothing wears out a house like being near the ocean.”

You got that right, it is amazing how much damage the salt can do.

“Nothing wears out a house like being near the ocean.”

And to add insult to Mother Nature’s injury, houses near the ocean carry a premium price tag, due to the aesthetic appeal. A higher market value carries with it a higher cost of physical depreciation.

What we humans labor to get out of the ground and assemble…….. goes back in the ground…. right where it came from.

Maybe New England isn’t a destination for Canadian equity vultures. Those you meet might just be on a driving vacation.

No, Canadians are just plum crazy.

“The Canadians I encounter, and I meet many up here in New England”

MA?

The Canadians I encounter, and I meet many up here in New England, are looking to haggle on the cost of a piece of toast.

A guy I know in Buffalo, NY says the same thing.

That broad characterization about french canadians is fairly accurate.

“No, Canadians are just plum crazy.”

Loonie?

Maybe they watch their pennies and the overinflated housing costs will seem more affordable to them?

Penny wise, pound foolish.

ME

sfrenter, just get that joshua tree thingy.

‘I quit visiting patrick.net (local SF Bay Area housing bubble blog)

Yeah, well I don’t see what’s so great about San Francisco. When I was out there, police and ambulance sirens never stopped. And a lot of the people I met (outside of the HBB/Patrick posters of course) were rude or gross and didn’t seem to give a damn about it.

Yeah, well I don’t see what’s so great about San Francisco.

Southpark had a great episode on that topic.

If I had to live in a city, I’d pick San Francisco, way up in a hi-rise. I enjoy a good freak show, so long as I can escape when I want to.

sfrenter, just get that joshua tree thingy.

Got it already. But can’t block a poster that keeps changing his username.

I enjoy a good freak show

I enjoy being the freak show.

I’d pick Chicago for the short term in a heartbeat….San Francisco for the long term….Weather….

San Francisco for the long term

Surfing and running and biking all year long.

Just for the record, this here Patrick has nothing to do with that Patrick in San Francisco. I am in Ontario, Canada.

First I ever heard of the other guy.

Good to know…I thought maybe you were that guy.

Do you think buyers should be allowed to see the appraisal they paid for?

The ability of the current gringo grad is at an all time low. I end up hiring second generation kids of foreign nationals.

Almost all of these kids are on the iphone - during work, between work etc. IMO, this is the most distressing social epidemic ever - the govt could only dream of a propaganda machine as effective as this.

It wasn’t that long ago that CS and IT departments were busting at the seams. Then the great offshoring machine began, slaraies stagnated and the smart kids looked elsewhere for greener pastures.

And by “gringo kids” I meant all US born students, not just the lazy ones who yak on their iPhones all day. They are avoiding CS and IT like the plague. Enrollment at Colorado State is 1/10 of what it was at the peak.

And yet, my employer is on a continual hire for native speakers with high level CS/IT skills. BS in CS or MIS a few years experience and a CCIE and/or VCP (industry certifications). 100K+.

Pretty much “open” hiring, when we can find them, we hire them. We never have enough, and, other companies continually poach our top performers (as we do there’s).

The “geek stigma” associated with IT, as well as the off-shoring of lower level jobs has been a huge problem for many employers looking for people with these jobs. High level IT jobs are not outsourced; companies paying 200+/hr for consultants don’t want someone from another country (who’s not physically present, at least some of the time) and they don’t want someone who’s a non-native speaker (yes, I know this isn’t fair, but I didn’t make the rules).

Over:

What about the rest of us who like to create something while sitting hours in front of a computer?

I think that is the problem, the kind of jobs you have are not for the outgoing people person.

Why don’t you try hiring them out of school for less money and training them up to the standards of the industry certification?

+1

“Flood the job market with biz school graduates and this promised “real money” gets diluted.:

Agreed, but they also see all the people who do manage to grab the brass ring and think that they to can do it. Most of them will end up as managers at the local dollar store or KFC.

I ended up with 3 in 5 years…so far, I’ve only been using my second two, but it’s been working just fine…

Yeah, he fails the “purity” test.

Those are not long-term histories of being in the government.
Yea, Romney was a governor and Ryan has been in Congress for a couple of terms.
Do they have a history of working in government? I think not.

“Do they have a history of working in government? I think not.”

It pays to check your facts before posting.

Similarly, to claim that Mitt Romney, whose dad was governor of Michigan, a presidential candidate, and HUD Secretary, is a political outsider is quite a stretch.

The Political Scene
Fussbudget
How Paul Ryan captured the G.O.P.
by Ryan Lizza August 6, 2012
…
In 1991, Hart recommended Ryan for an internship in the office of Senator Bob Kasten, a Wisconsin Republican. Two years later, Ryan went to work as a speechwriter and policy analyst for Jack Kemp, who led Empower America, an organization then in the vanguard of making policy for supply-side conservatives who were pushing Republicans rightward in their views on taxes and the size of government. “Jack Kemp is what sucked me into public policy, public service, and politics,” Ryan said. “He called it the battle of ideas, and I just really got into it.”

Hart told me, “He thought the world of Jack Kemp. I got the impression that Jack Kemp became something of a second father.”

In 1997, Mark Neumann, the congressman from Ryan’s district in Wisconsin, who was running for the Senate, called Ryan, who was just twenty-seven, and suggested that he run for the House seat. Neumann knew that the popular Ryan name couldn’t hurt. Ryan went back to Wisconsin, worked briefly for the family business as a “marketing consultant”—a bit of résumé padding that gave him his only private-sector experience—and decided to run. One ad showed him walking through a Janesville cemetery among the gravestones of his ancestors. He won the election, becoming the second-youngest member of the House, and he has been reelected easily ever since.
…

Ryan worked as a Congressional aide before running for Congress. The only private sector job that I have heard mentioned is driving the Oscar Meyer Wiener Mobile for a few months. He probably worked for his grandfathers company for a few summers as well.

No meaningful private sector job experience. Zero.

So are you basically saying Paul Ryan is yet another one of those government teat-sucking hypocrites?

Or did I miss the point?

“She said that you shouldn’t interpret the lack of exceptions as meaning they don’t think there shouldn’t be any.”

What a crock.

I’m sure R&R will get this all straightened out at the convention, though, once the hurricane blows over Tampa.

You have touched upon 2 controversial issues. One is abortion, and the issue I was addressing is the ROLE of the Federal Government’s involvement.
The federal government should have NO involvement in terms of providing abortions and calling it “healthcare”. It is not.
The other is a medical ethicist issue.
The issue of “partial birth” abortions has often been argued in terms of “viability”. IF the life could survive on it’s own, then it should be allowed to live otherwise taking of that life is akin to murder.
contrarily,
The example you give is one of NON-viable lives that can only exist in an artificial environment, ergo the high cost.
I don’t agree that “extraordinary means” should be taken to provide life to infants or elderly, or anyone else.

If it wasn’t rainy and a lousy day, I wouldn’t take the time to discuss the ridiculous positions of “women’s right’s” and
“their bodies”. The issue is about RIGHT TO LIFE and SANCTITY of LIFE.
It is an unfortunate fact of life itself that most all mammalian creatures enter this world via a Female body. The question is mostly when it becomes a separate entity, and not a part of the human body, concerning human life.
The “feminist” view, that I claim is ANTI-feminist, since most wish to act like and emulate men, is that until the child is “delivered”, it is a part of her “body”. I would disagree.
But for the Leftist’s on this site that LOVE “science” and “reason”, then let’s be scientific and Rationale about the issue.
Let’s do a DNA sample of the UNBORN. Does it match the DNA of the mother? NO? NO!!!?
Well, gee, then it can’t be the “woman’s body” because it has been scientifically shown to be a unique creature.
What to do? Oh, my! What to do?

Let’s look at it another way. Let us agree that this birthing process is much to primitive for such an “advanced” being as a 21st century “evolved” human. Let us agree that we will start test-tube birthing centers. A man and a woman can ‘contract’ to have children by each donating a portion of the process.
EGG and Sperm…..Combined to make a new creation, a new human life.
Later, when the “child” is about 6 months developed, they lose interest. The “child” is in the test tube and the woman says:
I don’t want this child. Please terminate the “pregnancy” for me.
Is this “murder”, or is it just human tissue, of which the woman donated 1/2, so she has a 51% “vote” to eliminate this child?
These are troubling issues.
It is unfortunate that America and most of the “civilized” world has become immune to moral issues about LIFE because of Darwinian Philosophies about “creation”.
The REPUBLICANS are trying to support LIFE. The Democrats are trying to support Death, because the only “CHOICE” between life and Death is ……..Death.
That’s the “choice”. Abortion is the “choice”
It is PRO-death. Nothing more.
The so-called “right to privacy” is a really bad argument for killing children.

‘Darwinian Philosophies about “creation”.’

What are those, pray tell?

Life created itself by the “chance” collision of various chemicals.
It then “evolved” by various methods of mutations to create more and greater variety, although the fossil record only shows “extinction”, not creation.
None the less, it is the precursor of the “big bang” theory.
What is that you ask?

It’s really simple. In the Beginning, there was Nothing.
Then it exploded.

No one knows why. And since the MASS of a “singularity” is infinite, there is no way the force could overcome the mass, I would guess, unless the force of the explosion was greater than the mass. That’s a lot of energy compressed into a spot.

But somehow, after Billions and Billions of years the forces of vapor pressure were overcome by the forces of gravity (a very small force) and the world’s began to coalesce into stars and planets and chemicals landed on them and they formed complex DNA chains…………….all by themselves.
And reproduced, too.
My goodness, matter is certainly smart for an unintelligent state of being.

That’s the short story of the Darwinian Philosophy of “creation”.

‘My goodness, matter is certainly smart for an unintelligent state of being.

That’s the short story of the Darwinian Philosophy of “creation”.’

That sounds to me more like a strawman argument to support Intelligent Design Theory, rather than anything to do with so-called Darwinian Philosophy.

These questions are for those men who do not think there should be exceptions for rape. How would you feel about your wife being forced to carry her rapist’s child to term, instead of yours? How would you feel about raising your wife’s rapist’s child? Would you force her to carry to term and then force her to put it up for adoption? How would you feel about allowing your wife’s rapist visitation to his child?

“How would you feel about your wife being forced to carry her rapist’s child to term, instead of yours? How would you feel about raising your wife’s rapist’s child? Would you force her to carry to term and then force her to put it up for adoption? How would you feel about allowing your wife’s rapist visitation to his child?”

Apparently the answers to those questions all hinge on whether or not one is a legitimate conservative.

Today, the fiction economy rules. Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood bankster.

Now get out there and buy a house, a car…anything … just be sure to take out a loan.

We might have to ask some folks to step outside to settle their differences.

As great as the differences are here, I think everybody would pretty much be on the same page in regard to this particular movie. Kind of the same way it’s easy for almost everyone to agree that Hitler was a bad guy.