An excellent quote from an article over at TakiMag, summing up the depravity of the DNC and indeed, of the current president.
“Keep hoping until your brain explodes, because under Barack Obama, we finally have a nation where people of all colors, genders, sexual orientations, and creeds can be imprisoned for life without trial.”
I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges! What’s worse, it doesn’t matter who get’s control from either party, they all like these fascist tactics:
‘In an important speech last year at Harvard University, CIA veteran and Obama counterterrorism adviser John O. Brennan stressed that the administration’s Middle East policies emphasize the rule of law and respect for human rights. If that’s true, then the cache of evidence disclosed by the Libyan revolution and the comparable evidence that has emerged in Egypt point to the CIA as a rogue institution operating at dangerous cross-purposes with official U.S. policy. The agency aligned itself closely with the most abusive institutions in the countries where it was operating, and enabled the wanton torture of political opponents. Those tight relationships appear to have seriously warped its intelligence posture, leaving it dangerously blind to the developments that swept the Arab world early last year. Moreover, much of the conduct highlighted in the HRW report violated criminal statutes, including the Anti-Torture Act and the prohibition on renditions of persons to countries where they were likely to face torture.’
‘The Justice Department’s systematic whitewashing of these crimes can best be explained by the fact that it was a key actor in the crimes. It cannot be expected to prosecute its own senior staffers, nor can it be expected to take actions that would further stain its already badly soiled reputation. But this very whitewashing raises fundamental doubt about the Obama Administration’s commitment to ending torture by American intelligence operatives. To the contrary, the Obama Administration’s handling of the matter appears to retain torture as a viable option for American foreign policy—one that Mitt Romney, with Michael Hayden at his side, would happily resume.’
‘For several decades, protection of whistleblowers has been a core political value for Democrats, at least for progressives. Daniel Ellsberg has long been viewed by liberals as an American hero for his disclosure of the top secret Pentagon Papers. In 2008, candidate Obama hailed whistleblowing as “acts of courage and patriotism”, which “should be encouraged rather than stifled as they have been during the Bush administration”.
‘President Obama, however, has waged the most aggressive and vindictive assault on whistleblowers of any president in American history, as even political magazines generally supportive of him have recognized and condemned. One might think that, as the party’s faithful gather to celebrate the greatness of this leader, this fact would be a minor problem, a source of some tension between Obama and his hardest-core supporters, perhaps even some embarrassment. One would be wrong.’
‘Far from shying away from this record of persecuting whistleblowers, the Obama campaign is proudly boasting of it.’
“I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges!”
I don’t understand it either, Ben. I really don’t. But I do know that the more depraved society becomes, the more this sort of thing is bound to happen. Rome, Germany, Soviet Union, etc.
The problem seems to be that this stuff goes on so far outside what the MSM perceives as its scope of reporting duties, leaving it below the radar screen of the America’s self image. Even if the citizens were fully informed, what could they individually do to stop covert activities that don’t agree with their personal values or official U.S. policy? It seems like only those at the top (Congress, president, etc) are in a position to challenge the conduct of covert operations, as any little guy who clamors too loudly might find himself labeled a terrorist and put behind bars for life. But once the top politicians fight through the election process to get the job, they may see little reason to cede hidden power which comes at low cost of political opposition.
I don’t support it either, Ben, but I REALLY don’t $upport full-scale invasions to accomplish the same objective. How much cheaper would it have been to assassinate Saddam Hussein in a targeted drone strike or through covert police action? (Although we all know that killing Saddam wasn’t the real objective of that little misadventure.)
Personally, I’m glad they didn’t send another US Army to Pakistan (although I personally would have liked to see OBL get his day in court if for no other reason than all the embarrassing revelations he’d have made).
As for targeting nominally US citizens who fight for American enemies, what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone (other than the cost and the risking of MORE American lives to take them out)?
That Obama apparently takes public responsibility for the decision strikes me as a more transparent prosecution of war than any of his modern predecessors have admitted to.
Again, I am a vocal and lifelong opponent of warfare and the military in general, but the moral dilemma aside, I have to err on the side of cost-effectiveness and minimized “collateral damage”. One Vietnam per lifetime is plenty.
Comment by Red Heifer
2012-09-08 10:46:33
I have to err on the side of cost-effectiveness and minimized “collateral damage”.
That’s a slippery slope argument. If you remember Iraq war and with the light foot print and smart bombs, it’s supposed to be one of the cost-effective wars with minimized collatoeral damage. How did that turn out?
More importantly, morally and philosophically is killing 10 any better thab killing 100?
‘what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone’
The 16 year old US boy they killed with a drone in Yemen wouldn’t have been on a battlefield. Never charged with anything, had just got to the country, probably to gather his assassinated fathers things. And BTW, we aren’t at war with Yemen, although we did prop up their dictator for 32 years, then replaced him with another.
‘How much cheaper would it have been to assassinate Saddam Hussein in a targeted drone strike or through covert police action’
While he sat around writing love novels? Probably pretty easy. But Bush didn’t invade to kill SH or they would have left after they caught him. They invaded for the oil and regional colonization.
‘One Vietnam per lifetime’
Didn’t the US have bombing campaigns in Cambodia and Laos? Weren’t US kill teams assassinating ‘enemies’ in those countries? I seem to remember there was a bit of an uproar about it when it was exposed, as we weren’t at war with these peoples.
‘Obama apparently takes public responsibility’
Somehow that credit doesn’t include the possibility of being charged with crimes. I’d say that’s no responsibility at all. Then there’s his covering up the war crimes of the previous administration, as I’m sure the one following his will do for him.
When we start making excuses for things like torture, which we declared illegal and signed treaties to that effect, we can make excuses for pretty much anything. And I’m sure if an atomic bomb goes off someday, a ready excuse will be trotted out. Something like, better to kill them over there; it keeps our ‘boys’ from dieing, etc. And some ‘leader’ will take responsibility, while those that do the killing can always say they were following orders.
Comment by Red Heifer
2012-09-08 11:13:49
>i>Obama apparently takes public responsibility’
Somehow that credit doesn’t include the possibility of being charged with crimes. I’d say that’s no responsibility at all.
This is why Obama is more dangerous than others. Others may be due to the guilt or shame would lie or hide in the dark. Obama on the other hand is actually daring us, “I did it, what are you going to do about it?”
Comment by Muggy
2012-09-08 11:18:55
“but I REALLY don’t $upport full-scale invasions ”
Didn’t they try for YEARS to assassinate Saddam? They couldn’t get close. That’s what the body doubles were for.
Just like we couldn’t get Castro. I think the CIA spent $100 million trying to get him back around 1962. The money usually ends up going to some big-talking scammer who doesn’t have a clue how to pull it off, or is quickly outed by the leader’s security forces.
Bumping off US citizens who are working/living with our “Enemy du jour” is nothing new. It isn’t like getting whacked with a Hellfire missile if you digging a hole to plant a roadside bomb would be a surprise to anyone.
Peace-niks complained about “carpet-bombing”…….now they are complaining about “targeted assassinations”. Why not just cut to the chase? That you think military action of any type is unjustified?
Same with the torture thing. If someone is going to authorize it, they had better have a good reason, and be held accountable. (Not that I believe it’s even neccesary…….with all of the highly paid psycologists and pharmacutical experts we have on the payroll, torture shouldn’t even be needed, especially when you consider all of the negatives).
We have a Defense Department. What a euphemism. It’s an OFFENSE department. They are on offense, trying to completely control everything around the world, and they commit offenses the world over. Thus, they are offensive.
When a human being walks down your street and sees threats in every corner — the woman opening her car door is a menace, you coming out of your front door to pick up the paper is a demon — we call those people paranoid, and we put them someplace safe to them to save us. But, when our defense department and president act like any nation that pursues its own national interest is a threat to the United States, we get people like X-GSfixer backing em up in their delusions that torture is EVER in the national interest of the United States.
So, Ben, you wondered how people can accept tyranny? By being paranoid. By being so paranoid any sane society would lock them away to save civilization.
IAT
Comment by Bea
2012-09-08 12:25:42
the 2005 documentary Why We Fight does a good job of explaining why we really fight wars…should be required viewing for all Americans, but that would never happen.
‘you think military action of any type is unjustified’
Not self defense. How far ‘they’ have stretched this logic, though. If a sparrow falls from the sky on an unnamed mountain in a country almost no one has heard of, there will be a person that can make a ’security’ issue of it.
Being the worlds policeman is folly enough. Borrowing trillion$ from China to do so weakens not just national defense, but national existence.
We had to pay contractors to protect our bases in Iraq, before they ran our butts out in the middle of the night. A bunch of goat herders are showing us the door in Afghanistan. At this point, I don’t think we’re frightening anyone who doesn’t like us. And there are more that don’t like us everyday precisely because of these killings.
I’m less worried about this now; the handwriting is on the wall, IMO. The US has borrowed so much money that paying it off is impossible. Someday, the bond markets will cut off the Pentagon. Unfortunately, a lot of other stuff will be cut too. The cost of empire is accelerating that process. And some of us will say, we told you so.
‘there’s been little focus on its possible role as a venue for consultations between Big Oil and the administration about Iraq. One intriguing piece of evidence pointing in this direction was a National Security Council directive, dated February 2001, instructing NSC staff to co-operate fully with the task force. The NSC document, reported in The New Yorker magazine, noted that the task force would be considering the ‘melding’ of two policy areas: ‘the review of operational policies towards rogue states’ and ‘actions regarding the capture of new and existing oil and gas fields.’ This certainly implies that the Cheney task force was considering geopolitical questions about actions related to the capture of oil and gas reserves in ‘rogue’ states, including presumably Iraq.”
‘Dick Cheney, Autumn 1999: Speech at the Institute of Petroleum… by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously controlling about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer great oil opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world‘s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies’
‘On April 19, 2003, soon after American troops entered Baghdad, Times’ reporters Thom Shanker and Eric Schmitt had a striking front-page piece headlined, “Pentagon Expects Long-Term Access to Four Key Bases in Iraq.” It began:
“The United States is planning a long-term military relationship with the emerging government of Iraq, one that would grant the Pentagon access to military bases and project American influence into the heart of the unsettled region, senior Bush administration officials say. American military officials, in interviews this week, spoke of maintaining perhaps four bases in Iraq that could be used in the future: one at the international airport just outside Baghdad; another at Tallil, near Nasiriya in the south; the third at an isolated airstrip called H-1 in the western desert, along the old oil pipeline that runs to Jordan; and the last at the Bashur air field in the Kurdish north.”
‘The Pentagon, that is, arrived in Baghdad with at least a four-base strategy for the long-term occupation of the country already on the drawing boards. These were to be mega-bases, essentially fortified American towns on which those 30,000-40,000 troops could hunker down for a South-Korean-style eternity. The Pentagon was officially not looking for “permanent basing,” as it slyly claimed, but “permanent access.”
“As for targeting nominally US citizens who fight for American enemies, what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone (other than the cost and the risking of MORE American lives to take them out)?”
1. Is it legal to kill US citizens if you use a drone?
2. If it is illegal whether or not you use a drone, which way is more likely to result in getting caught?
“…it’s supposed to be one of the cost-effective wars with minimized collateral damage. How did that turn out?”
Moral hazard problem of cost-effective warfare: Lower costs result in more wars.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-09-08 13:40:17
I agree with X-GSf. US citizens who support or fight for the enemy in a war lose their Constitutional rights. It’s been thus in every war. It would have been impossible to fight the South in the Civil War if we had to bring each Southern soldier to trial.
I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists. They thought they could sit in the comfort and safety of their mountain retreats in Kookistan, and send their brainwashed holy warriors to the West to terrorize us, at little or no cost to themselves. Now, they suddenly find that it is we who can sit in the comfort of our home bases, and blow up the terrorist warlords. I bet they pooped their burkas when that first started happening.
Now, it’s them, not us, who have to live in fear of sudden death, constantly on their guard, their whole lifestyle changed for the worst, fear a constant companion. Exactly what they thought they were going to visit on us.
“…better to kill them over there; it keeps our ‘boys’ from dieing, etc. And some ‘leader’ will take responsibility, while those that do the killing can always say they were following orders.”
Isn’t that pretty much a tidy summary of the argument for why Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened? The military chain of command system apparently gives blanket coverage for actions taken down the chain, provided nobody ‘goes rogue.’
Comment by oxide
2012-09-08 13:46:41
The 16 year old US boy they killed with a drone in Yemen wouldn’t have been on a battlefield.
Battlefield? When is the last time we had a battlefield?
‘Peace-niks complained about “carpet-bombing”…….now they are complaining about “targeted assassinations”. Why not just cut to the chase? That you think military action of any type is unjustified?’
“The US has borrowed so much money that paying it off is impossible. Someday, the bond markets will cut off the Pentagon. Unfortunately, a lot of other stuff will be cut too. The cost of empire is accelerating that process. And some of us will say, we told you so.”
Which candidate is more likely to turn this situation around?
Neither?
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-09-08 15:01:25
I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists.
Interesting point.
Comment by Northeastener
2012-09-08 15:21:23
Isn’t that pretty much a tidy summary of the argument for why Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened?
At it’s core, yes. The decision to use atomic weapons to force the Japanese to surrender was made because War Department estimates of the cost of invading Japan in similar fashion to the islands occupied by the Japanese, like Iwo Jima were catastrophic for America.
Note the Japanese didn’t surrender, they fought to the death. They were fanatic in their devotion. At Iwo Jima, there were 22,000 Japanese soldiers. Only 200 were taken prisoner. The US Marines suffered 26,000 casualties, with almost 7,000 dead.
So, at it’s core, do you value American lives over the lives of our enemies? To say all life is equal is not realistic, nor desirable, in war…
‘he decision to use atomic weapons to force the Japanese to surrender was made because War Department estimates of the cost of invading Japan in similar fashion to the islands occupied by the Japanese, like Iwo Jima were catastrophic for America’
‘.in [July] 1945… Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. …the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.’
“During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude…”
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:
“…the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”
- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63
‘ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY
(Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman)
“It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
“The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”
- William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441.
‘ On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: “I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you’ll get a peace in Japan - you’ll have both wars over.”
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.
On August 8, 1945, after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, Hoover wrote to Army and Navy Journal publisher Colonel John Callan O’Laughlin, “The use of the atomic bomb, with its indiscriminate killing of women and children, revolts my soul.”
quoted from Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 635.
“…the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945…up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; …if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs.”
- quoted by Barton Bernstein in Philip Nobile, ed., Judgment at the Smithsonian, pg. 142
Hoover biographer Richard Norton Smith has written: “Use of the bomb had besmirched America’s reputation, he [Hoover] told friends. It ought to have been described in graphic terms before being flung out into the sky over Japan.”
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 349-350.
In early May of 1946 Hoover met with General Douglas MacArthur. Hoover recorded in his diary, “I told MacArthur of my memorandum of mid-May 1945 to Truman, that peace could be had with Japan by which our major objectives would be accomplished. MacArthur said that was correct and that we would have avoided all of the losses, the Atomic bomb, and the entry of Russia into Manchuria.”
Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 350-351.
‘ MacArthur biographer William Manchester has described MacArthur’s reaction to the issuance by the Allies of the Potsdam Proclamation to Japan: “…the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face ‘prompt and utter destruction.’ MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General’s advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary.”
William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.
Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, “MacArthur’s views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed.” He continues, “When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.”
Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.
“More importantly, morally and philosophically is killing 10 any better thab killing 100?”
Ask the 90 and their families.
Comment by Northeastener
2012-09-08 18:54:18
Lots of “mights” and “maybes” in those quotes Ben. Want to know what the facts are? After we dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, they surrendered, and no more American lives were lost.
Ask yourself, why didn’t the Japanese surrender at any time prior to the dropping of the bombs? Was it that they were trying to save face, because if that was the case, the Japanese lost 100,000’s because of trying to save their honor…
Ask yourself, would you feel differently if you had been one of the poor Marines on a transport, waiting for the orders to invade Japan? Would you feel differently about the atomic bombs if it had been your brother or father or son killed in action against the Japanese? If it was your brother, father or son waiting to die because the Japanese valued their honor over life?
Comment by Northeastener
2012-09-08 18:58:19
Iwo Jima. Cut off from supply and surrounded by the US Pacific Fleet. 22,000 Japanese soldiers could have surrendered at any point prior to the marines coming ashore. They didn’t, and 21, 800 died in battle… all that talk of Japan being ready to “surrender” was exactly that, talk. Meanwhile, the Japanese soldiers were willing to die to uphold their honor, and if it took American lives, so be it.
“Ask yourself, why didn’t the Japanese surrender at any time prior to the dropping of the bombs?”
I asked myself, and the answer I received was that maybe the Japanese weren’t yet abjectly defeated at any potential point of surrender prior to the dropping of the bombs. But that doesn’t obviate Eisenhower’s argument, and he had a front-row seat to the situation.
Comment by I blame progressives
2012-09-08 23:38:18
“I agree with X-GSf. US citizens who support or fight for the enemy in a war lose their Constitutional rights. It’s been thus in every war.”
“I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists.”
Coming from the same group of people who sent human shields over to Iraq before the invasion. I guess it just depends on who is President. Guarantee those words don’t leave you lips if Obama was not in the White House.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-09-09 04:14:38
Guarantee those words don’t leave you lips if Obama was not in the White House.
‘what is the basis for saying that Romney would eagerly continue this evil’
From the Harpers story:
‘Former CIA director and current Romney national-security adviser Michael Hayden and former President Bush have both asserted that only three individuals held in detention by the CIA were ever waterboarded. The report would establish these claims as untruthful.’
Romney supports the NDAA. He never attacks the White House for assassinations or other unconstitutional acts. He never even mentions it.
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Comment by Darrell in Phoenix
2012-09-08 07:25:03
And there you have the answer to how we put up with this.
About a year into Obama, my wife just gave up hoping for better.
‘what is the basis for saying that Romney would eagerly continue this evil’ … He never attacks the White House for assassinations or other unconstitutional acts. He never even mentions it.
Not attacking/mentioning is not a basis for predicting what Romney will do.
Comment by Lip
2012-09-08 08:31:53
2nd term for Obama? It’s not going to happen.
Comment by Bluestar
2012-09-08 11:28:12
Nothing is known in advance. The only thing you can be 100% sure of is what you have experienced since you woke up this morning. Once you fall asleep tonight your subconscious will review and rearrange your memories for today and then your total recall starts to drop off as does the accuracy of your memory. Try keeping a diary for a month or two and you will see what I mean.
Same with stockholders. The true owners of a corporation do not control what they own, they just get to pay the bills that the ones in control get to run up.
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Comment by Combotechie
2012-09-08 07:26:28
What’s really great about being the head of a large corporation is that you have at your disposal all the money you need to select and finance your guy that you want to be sent to Washington.
The stockholders get to supply the money, you get to spend it.
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-09-08 07:45:06
“…we finally have a nation where people of all colors, genders, sexual orientations, and creeds can be imprisoned for life without trial.”
Have you looked recently at the “velvet” handcuffs you wear?
Where I sit is within a two-mile radius of Northrup Grumman Corporation’s local office. Friends of our family work there, including one of my wife’s former (adult) piano students. Perhaps our proximity to this and other defense contractor operations helps explain our chronically unaffordable housing prices, as I am pretty sure they support lots of high-paying engineering jobs.
Northrop Grumman is the recognized leader in Unmanned Systems (UMS). The depth and breadth of the company’s platforms and technologies portfolio provide customers with a wide range of advanced and new capabilities that directly benefit the military and citizens worldwide. They also deliver critical sensor technology. UMS operate in areas where manned vehicles can’t, allow for prolonged missions, which are not limited by human endurance, and help reduce risk to both national security, and human lives.
Watch the video below as Gary Ervin of Aerospace Systems discusses why UMS is one of our great strategic imperatives.
“I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges!”
It’s clear that the lobby system in Washington DC has created
the greatest number of traitors in Political office today than
we care to admit . The Political talk is absurd and appears to
just be a attempt to keep the status quo of the great robbery of the middle class worker gains of over 70 years ,including freedoms that were established in the past .
It has become a absurd system in which the protection of
Wall Street/Banks ,Corp America ,Monopolies ,and the Military complex is what is being protected ,and the great
robbery of the majority population in the USA continues .
What is the military protecting these days ,no doubt the interest of Corp America that is everywhere in the World and they know no boundaries . So what if China produces 7 out of the 10 GMC cars made and GMC partners up with China in this manufacturing . The World is the Corporations oyster and just leave the USA worker in ruins . Ford Moter Corp build a Plant in Mexico now ,yet they want all the benefits of being considered a America Company that even asked for bail outs at one time . Apparently they had no intentions of benefiting the American work force in that they built their new Plant in Mexico . We bailed out car Companies that are giving that many jobs to other Countries ,how absurd .
We didn’t address the health care costs and why the Health care system wasn’t sustainable any more ,and in large part due to the price fixing monopoly it is and the parasites that
fleece it ,such as the Private insurance companies and big Pharma and health care providers . Health care has become so bad that it account for close to a million preventable deaths a year now ,yet no attempt to get to the bottom of this unacceptable stat on the performance of that industry .
Its all very clear that Washington DC no longer has any allegience to the USA worker Citizen ,and its questionable what interest the Miltary is protecting these days . The great tranfer of weath to few hands is evidence of the corruption of the USA system , in which Politicians have been bribed
to become TRAITORS on the duty of the protection of the USA Citizen .Globalism and free trade is a form of TREASON to the interest of the Citizens of America and it only benefits the one percenters and middle men and casinos of Wall Street .
Throw all the bums out of Washington DC and maybe try them for Treason . Either that or decouple yourself from their systems that are designed to rob you of your life ,liberty and pursuit of happiness and all the gains that were made in the last 100 years for the common man and women .
The Politicians won’t discuss the real issues ,instead they want to discuss how to enrich the corrupted systems while they talk about how the majority has to give up and how dare they feel entitled to anything . Give up ,give up ,give up ,and while your at it take lower wages while the price fixing monopolies raise prices . Become a Nation of people misdirecting resourses into the gambling casinos of Wall Street while jobs aren’t created or insured that they are even put into the USA that would benefit our workers .
Kick all the Traitors out ,they only know how to be bribed .
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Comment by In Colorado
2012-09-08 17:41:54
What is the military protecting these days ,no doubt the interest of Corp America that is everywhere in the World and they know no boundaries
The entire front page of our local fishwrap was dedicated to a local Army sarge who died overseas. He was described as a “hero”.
I couldn’t help but shake my head. That poor sap threw his life away to protect the economic interests of billionaires, many who are not even Americans.
Comment by Northeastener
2012-09-08 19:03:25
That poor sap threw his life away to protect the economic interests of billionaires, many who are not even Americans.
Ask the Roman Legionnaire why he fought? It was for the glory of Rome…
Is service to one’s country any different today than it was 2000 years ago?
Comment by Housing Wizard
2012-09-08 21:21:00
So true that the good intention guy threw his life away for the elite .It reaches the point in which why should people care what happens if all their opportunity for a better life is taken away and the Country they live in betrays them .
What borders would people be fighting for anymore ? I’m suppose to fight for GMC to protect their interest in their deals with China and giving their people jobs .Lets get serious .
I understand it. Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Experience teaches a dear school, but fools will learn in no other. And, I am sure you could provide many other kernels of wisdom the human species has accumulated through the ages of the folly of thinking one can cozy up to tyrants and avoid being a target of them in the end.
So, I understand their accepting each step into tyranny. I just totally disagree with their folly.
The storyline being sold to the vegetative dupes (watching Honey Boo Boo) that occupy space in this delusional paradise we call America, by the corporate media, is that consumers have deleveraged and are ready to resume their “normal” pattern of spending money they don’t have on stuff they don’t need. Of course, the facts always seem to get in the way of a good yarn. Consumers have never deleveraged. Consumer credit outstanding is at an all-time high of $2.58 trillion. The decline from $2.55 trillion in 2008 to $2.4 trillion in 2010 was NOT deleveraging. It was the Wall Street Too Big To Fail banks taking a big dump on the American taxpayers. They passed their bad debts to you through TARP, the Federal Reserve buying their toxic “assets”, and ZIRP.
Revolving credit (credit card) debt peaked at just above $1 trillion in 2008 and “declined” to $850 billion during 2010. The media storyline is that you buckled down and paid off your credit cards, therefore depressing consumer spending and creating a recession. Sounds convincing except for the fact that it’s a load of [bleep]. The Federal Reserve’s own data proves it to be false. Your friendly Wall Street banks have written off $213 billion of credit card debt since 2008 and passed the bill to the few remaining taxpayers in this country. For the math challenged, this means that consumers have actually INCREASED their credit card debt by $68 billion since 2008. The bad news for our Chinese crap peddling mega-retailers is that the significantly poorer average middle class American household is using their credit cards to pay their property tax bills, IRS bills, and utility bills in order to survive.
“The bad news for our Chinese crap peddling mega-retailers is that the significantly poorer average middle class
American household is using their credit cards to pay their property tax bills, IRS bills, and utility bill in order to survive.”
There it is. Cash - and cash flow - rules.
It used to be Americans borrowed because they wanted to, now they are borrowing because they have to. At least this is how it is for those who haven’t got the bucks.
Until this credit in no longer available, cash is not king. Cash has been crowded out by credit. Prices of goods and services are still overinflated due to King Credit. I hope, one day soon, cash is king again.
Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank. Through his efforts to save the currency, Mr. Draghi may now be the most powerful leader in Europe.
FRANKFURT — The European Central Bank on Thursday took its most ambitious step yet toward easing the euro zone crisis, throwing its unlimited financial clout behind an effort to protect Spain and Italy from financial collapse.
Mario Draghi, the president of the central bank, won nearly unanimous support from the bank’s board to buy vast amounts of government bonds, a move that would relieve investor pressure on troubled countries but also effectively spread responsibility for repaying national debts to the euro zone countries as a group.
The decision propels political leaders farther down the uncertain and winding road toward a Europe with centralized control over government spending and economic policy, instead of a collection of nation states that sometimes seem to share little more than a currency and a slumping regional economy.
…
Sure is but if the Rate of Return exceeds that cost then thats profit….
Comment by Combotechie
2012-09-08 09:01:45
“Also the more quantitative easing happens, the less the charge.”
Yeah, right. Here’s the charge for quantitative easing:
“… Mr. Draghi may be the most powerful leader in europe.”
He who control the bucks ultimately controls it all.
Comment by Combotechie
2012-09-08 09:09:41
Go ahead and set up your governments, establish your freedoms and independence and all that, then when things get a bit tight come and see me and then we will sit down and maybe discuss what is what.
Comment by scdave
2012-09-08 09:24:10
What are the Unintended consequences from all this federal reserve involvement ?? We know what was the desired effect…We can see that with the stock market…What I don’t think we know, is, what will be the cost to the country…Its people….
Comment by Red Heifer
2012-09-08 10:30:28
what will be the cost to the country…Its people….
Exactly what we are seeing right now. More unemployment..more job loss..money in hands of few people…speculative bubbles…..
Comment by Combotechie
2012-09-08 10:45:02
“Just as the rich rule the poor, the borrower is servant to the lender.” - Proverbs 22:7.
It’s their game and they spent a lot of money setting up their game; All they need now are players.
So why not win by default, win by not playing?
If they need you more than you need them then why not keep it this way?
Comment by scdave
2012-09-08 10:48:31
I am wondering about 5-10-20 years from now…This great recession has moved many from solid middle class to get-by standards…And that transformation continues…You wonder if they will ever recover given the apparent lack of good job opportunities…
Given the age of my children, I meet many of their friends…Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
Comment by Red Heifer
2012-09-08 11:03:10
Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
It’s not only a financial decision. Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others. Me generation and all……
Comment by Combotechie
2012-09-08 11:08:17
“Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others.”
A bit of Darwinism in action, perhaps?
Comment by scdave
2012-09-08 11:24:01
Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others ??
Yep…I see this mostly with the guys although with the girls also…They appear fearful as much as their appearance that they are not willing to sacrifice…It may have some to do with the divorce rates soaring over the last 20 years or so…They have likely witnessed a lot of ugliness through their friends or in many cases their own family…
Comment by In Colorado
2012-09-08 13:35:37
Given the age of my children, I meet many of their friends…Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
Another narrative was we saved GM and Chrysler. No we didn’t. It’s like a patient after a massive heart attack, we did the bypass and rehab and finally patient is on his feet again. Unfortunately the patient is also back to his unhealthy lifestyles. This will end exactly like it did.
Same goes for the mini housing bubble we are seeing in some parts.
Women Who Rock: Vision, Passion, Power on view September 7, 2012–January 6, 2013.
Women Who Rock: Vision, Passion, Power is a provocative exhibition that illustrates the importance of women in the world of popular music from the 1920s to present day. It highlights the flashpoints, the firsts, the best, and the celebrated and sometimes lesser-known women whose artistry advanced the progress of rock-and-roll music. Featuring more than 250 artifacts and performance videos, the exhibition moves through rock-and-roll eras, demonstrating how women have been engines of creation and change.
Women played a central role in the development of the rock-and-roll genre, beginning with early blues artists, like Ma Rainey and Bessie Smith. Spirited rhythm-and-blues singers—such as Ruth Brown, LaVern Baker, and rockabilly queen Wanda Jackson—added their creative talents to popular music through its explosive growth in the ’50s. Girl groups, like the Shirelles and Supremes, dominated the charts in the early ’60s while Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, and Joni Mitchell carried the torch into the ’70s. Today, music is ruled by women from Lady Gaga to Alicia Keys, Rihanna to Carrie Underwood.
Featured artifacts from these women and many more include clothing, musical instruments, handwritten lyrics and music, session cards, concert posters, photographs, dressing room notes, appointment notebooks, and a Tony award statuette.
Women have not always been welcome in the rock-and-roll world, but despite the odds, female rockers have thrived. Growing out of the margins and into the mainstream, they have gained an unassailable place at the top of the charts.
Women Who Rock Programs
Programs are listed individually on the Calendar or all together in our blog post.
First, I really can’t afford one. 30K+? Get outta here! (new F150 with the Ecotec engine, loaded. 50K. Bullcrap, It’s still just a damn pick’em up truck, not a BMW/Lexus. Don’t get me started on the “Escalade”)
Second, devaluation is far too high. I can buy that same car 2-3 years from now and get a much better price. Damn near half in many cases.
3rd, new car dealers. May they rot in hell.
4th. Sub prime loan. Which is what everyone gets who doesn’t have perfect credit. Which is… everyone.
Cars are THE biggest scam and drain on the household budget that was ever invented and most of us have to have one because our local mass transit system is damn near, no, wait, IS non-existent.
I don’t consider cars and trucks a scam at all. They are a wonderful tool which I greatly appreciate. I am a very mobile person, and I like the fact that I can get into a piece of machinery and end up 900 miles away in the same day. Sure, there are costs, but I am happy to pay for that freedom. Fuel is pretty pricey these days, but I also have a gas sipper in addition to my truck.
Hint: Try Japanese automobiles (got three parked out front, very slowly depreciating)
“3rd, new car dealers. May they rot in hell.”
Next time, visit this site before shopping: Truecar.com
When you visit the dealer, take along the best quote from a nearby rival dealer on the car that interests you. Have it ready to pull out the moment the dealer first throws out a strawman price several thousand dollars about the car’s actual market value; stops ‘em cold.
“4th. Sub prime loan. Which is what everyone gets who doesn’t have perfect credit. Which is… everyone.”
Much better use of cash than wasting it on a downpayment to buy a house whose future drop in value to underwater levels could soon wipe out the downpayment.
“5th. Cars are an inflation hedge which also help you get to work.”
What happens when you let a free sh*t army into your house…
————————
Landlord ‘nightmare’ in eviction attempt (San Francisco)
San Francisco Chronicle | September 7, 2012 | Neal J. Riley
Janet Sluizer knew she was taking a bit of a chance when she turned to Craigslist this summer to find a tenant for her apartment in the Mission.What she didn’t expect was that she’d be spending thousands of dollars in a struggle to evict a roommate who she says hasn’t paid rent beyond the first month.
“This is a nightmare,”Sluizer said.
It’s a nightmare that landlord advocates say is all too common in SanFrancisco, where 64 percent of residents rent.
…..According to [Janan]New[executive director of the San Francisco Apartment Association], a combination of confusing rent ordinances and an abundance of free legal resources for tenants make it difficult for inexperienced landlords to evict someone on their own.
“A lot of the situations in other counties would be dealt simply with a 30-day notice and that’s the end of it,….In San Francisco,you just can’t do that.”
According to SuperiorCourt records, seven unlawful detainer suits have been filed against [Louis]Podover in San Francisco. Landlord attorney Drexel Bradshaw has a term for those who game the system by paying only the first month’s rent and delaying eviction proceedings: professional tenants.
“They move in, they take advantage and they end up living rent free,” he said. “A few days before the prospective subtenant is forced to move out, they’ll find another landlord of whom they can take advantage.”
[Sluizer] said she takes full responsibility for not getting anything in writing from Podover as soon as he moved in, something that landlord attorneys said is a recipe for disaster. She said she’s offered to pay movers and cover a motel for two weeks for Podover, anything to get her piece of mind back.
“This guy is having a field day on my dime,” she said. “I just want him out of my house.”
My sister got rid of such a moocher by waiting until he was gone for the day, renting a U-Haul, loading all his stuff into it, and driving it outside the main gate of her guarded community where she parked it, along with instructions to the guard never to let him in again. Then she had a confederate call the guy and tell him that he had 48 hours before she reported the truck stolen. Never heard another word from him.
When I was going house-hunting, the realtor asked if I had ever considered a housemate. Well sure… what Realtor wants to sell a house to a person, if she can sell a more expensive house to a person who promises to get a housemate?
Ritholtz rules for dealing with Wall Street….. Now….. Read it through the lens of buying a house from a RealTard.
1. Reward is always relative to risk: If any product or investment sounds as if it has lots of upside, it also has lots of risk. If you can disprove this, there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you.
2. Asymmetrical information: In all negotiated sales, one party has far more information, knowledge and experience about the product being bought and sold. One party knows its undisclosed warts and risks better than the other. Which party are you?
3.Good advice is priceless: I know, easier said than done. The Street buys the best legal talent, mathematicians and strategists that money can buy. Make sure you have expert advisers and lawyers working for you as well.
4. Motivation:Always ask, what is the motivation of the outfit selling me this product? Is it the long-term stability and financial health of my organization — or their own fees and commissions?
5. Legal documents are created to protect the preparer (and its firm), not you or yours: In the history of modern finance, no large legal document has worked against its drafters. Private placement memorandums, sales agreement, arbitration clauses — firms use these to protect themselves, not you.
6. Performance: How significantly do the fees, interest rates commissions, etc., have an impact on the performance of this investment vehicle over time? Determining for yourself what the actual cost of money is will avoid more heartache in the future.
7. Shareholder obligation: All publicly traded firms (including investment banks and bond underwriters) have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits. This is far greater than any duty owed of care to you, the client. Always ask yourself whether this new product benefits the shareholders or your organization. (This is acutely important for untested products.)
8. Reputational risk: Who suffers if this investment goes down the drain? Who gets fired or voted out of office if this blows up? Who suffers reputational risk?
9. Keep it simple, stupid (KISS): It’s easy to make things complicated, but it’s very challenging to make them simple. The more complexity brought to a problem, the greater the potential for things to go awry — not just astray, but very, very wrong.
10. There is no free lunch: Repeat after me: There is no free money, no riskless trade, no way to turn lead into gold. If you remember no other rule, this is the one that will save your hide time and again.
7. Shareholder obligation: All publicly traded firms (including investment banks and bond underwriters) have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits.
Who typically has a significant chunk of the shares? The executive team. This is just a obfuscated way of saying that their profit is paramount over all other concerns.
Now - profit is good. It’s good for the individual and for the society, if it doesn’t cause significant collateral damage. But, my point is that ’shareholder value’ is just obfuscatory language.
“If any product or investment sounds as if it has lots of upside, it also has lots of risk. If you can disprove this, there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you.”
Suppose you existed as a too-big-to-fail financial entity; if times were good, you’d generate profits; in bad times, bailouts would fill your coffers.
Wouldn’t this example constitute disproof? Now where is my Nobel Prize?
THE eurozone crisis will get worse before it gets better and Greece could exit the single currency bloc within a year, Swedish Finance Minister Anders Borg said in an interview.
“I don’t think we’ve seen the worst yet in countries like Spain and Greece. They have such serious problems that Europe is going to be in a very difficult position during the next six to 12 months,” Borg told public broadcaster Swedish Radio.
reland’s government will probably fail in its bid to secure an accord to reduce its legacy banking debt by the end of October, two people with direct knowledge of the talks said.
European Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said in July that concrete proposals on the Irish question would be presented to euro-area finance ministers in September before a final decision in October. The details are unlikely to be on the agenda when ministers meet in Cyprus next week, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private
European leaders are focusing primarily on bringing down Spanish borrowing costs before turning attention to Ireland, the people said.
The company promised to create 500 jobs by 2014 and make annual payments toward its $40 million Tradition Studio in exchange for a $71 million state and city incentive package.
To D in Phoenix,
“About a year into Obama, my wife just gave up hoping for better.”
The problem Darrell is that hope calls for no action, no effort, no investment of self. It should be eliminated from the English language. A pig wallowing in a sty could hope not to end up as bacon on the breakfast table. Maybe your wife should hope for the worst and if she got the worst her hope would be fulfilled and if things turned out better she could jump for joy.
I sure ‘hope’ that you didn’t purchase your condo on hoping to make a profit, or hoping the neighborhood takes a turn for the better, or hoping that you’ll have no maintenance costs like A/C, or hoping someone doesn’t take of with the HOA fees, etc. Reality based decisions always work out the best.
You remove hope and you will loose the ability to plan for the future. The very act of hoping creates the mental framework that allows your mind to construct a variety of alternate plans and actions that can be acted upon. Hope is embedded in human nature.
BS, “hope is embedded in human nature”?
I guess that I missed out on that gene and got a double dose of the survival gene coupled with common sense and tempered with observations of cause and effect! It’s real easy to plan for the future by watching the mistakes of others and leading not being led.
For someone so full of yourself, you sure aren’t very smart.
You were unable the discern the context of my wife losing hope, in regards to foreign policy and war.
You seem to not be paying a lot of attention if you think all my wife and I do is passively hope. I joined the Navy at 19, made E6 in 5 years (average is about 9.5 years). During 4 years of shore duty, while working full time as a computer programmer, I earned a BSCS with a 4.0 GPA. I now work for IBM and make in excess of $90K a year.
My wife was a later in life student, earning her masters at 35. She now works as a senior IT analyst in the health care industry earning $80K a year.
We’re hardly ones to just sit back waiting for things to happen for us.
You know I am buying a townhouse, but seem totally ignorant as to the dozens of times that I’ve repeatedly stated that this is not being purchased as an investment. I know it is an expense. I am using it for one thing and one thing only, as a place to house my children that is cheaper than renting from someone else.
I have an IQ of 140. Put 1000 random people in a room with me, odds are I’m the smartest person in the room. I aced every calculus, stats, and other math test I’ve ever taken. I was one of the loudest talking about the bubble to everyone I knew back in in 2003-2006.
The townhouse is $48.4K. As if that is some big investment. If it goes to $0, I’m out less than 1/3rd of a year’s income. If it were to double, which it won’t, over the next 10 years, it would be about as much as we’re putting into 401(k)s in about 3 years.
You need to climb down off your high horse and buy a clue before trying to get in my face again.
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Darryl Is A Liar
2012-09-08 22:39:10
Darryl The Liar,
You’re lying once again.
Why do you lie so?
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2012-09-09 09:36:25
You were unable the discern the context of my wife losing hope,
Wait, “RAL is Al Queda”—are you actually Darrell???
You’re not the same as “RAL is a Liar”, are you? It’s getting so hard to keep track.
Do you not care one way or the other whether your plans work out? If you care, well, that’s just a synonym for hope. If you don’t care, why make any plans at all?
BS, “hope is embedded in human nature”?
I guess that I missed out on that gene and got a double dose of the survival gene coupled with common sense and tempered with observations of cause and effect! It’s real easy to plan for the future by watching the mistakes of others and leading not being led.
I say: Do you not care one way or the other whether your plans work out? If you care, well, that’s just a synonym for hope. If you don’t care, why make any plans at all?
Note to board, I keep trying to let the townhouse purchase go, but others keep bringing it up.
No, I do not hope to make a profit. Having owned a home for 18 of the last 20 years, yeah, I know stuff breaks. There is nothing wrong with the neighborhood so has no need of taking a turn for the better.
The schools aren’t the greatest, but that won’t be an issue for at least 4 years as the youngest child that will be moving into it is 6 months old.
The hoping for better was that Obama was not going to do things like drone strikes and the like. Less than a year into his presidency, she had accepted that Obama was going to continue the Bush wars full force.
Let me see if I can get this across ONE MORE TIME. I’m buying the townhouse as an expense, not an investment. It is a place to house my kids, not something I expect to get anything out of other than that. An expense for a place to house my kids that is cheaper than rent.
I do not understand why that is so hard for people to grasp!
I just ate lunch. Guess what. That was an expense too, not an investment.
The plan is that the 25 year old daughter will have payed off debt, repaired credit and saved up a huge down payment, and will be in a better position to get her own place anywhere else she wants to live by then.
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An excellent quote from an article over at TakiMag, summing up the depravity of the DNC and indeed, of the current president.
“Keep hoping until your brain explodes, because under Barack Obama, we finally have a nation where people of all colors, genders, sexual orientations, and creeds can be imprisoned for life without trial.”
http://takimag.com/article/an_overdose_of_hope_takimag/print#ixzz25sfak0mE
Eric Holder will get his Waco moment in O’s 2nd term. You’ll see
I believe you.
He will be replaced by Janet Napolitano.
I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges! What’s worse, it doesn’t matter who get’s control from either party, they all like these fascist tactics:
‘In an important speech last year at Harvard University, CIA veteran and Obama counterterrorism adviser John O. Brennan stressed that the administration’s Middle East policies emphasize the rule of law and respect for human rights. If that’s true, then the cache of evidence disclosed by the Libyan revolution and the comparable evidence that has emerged in Egypt point to the CIA as a rogue institution operating at dangerous cross-purposes with official U.S. policy. The agency aligned itself closely with the most abusive institutions in the countries where it was operating, and enabled the wanton torture of political opponents. Those tight relationships appear to have seriously warped its intelligence posture, leaving it dangerously blind to the developments that swept the Arab world early last year. Moreover, much of the conduct highlighted in the HRW report violated criminal statutes, including the Anti-Torture Act and the prohibition on renditions of persons to countries where they were likely to face torture.’
‘The Justice Department’s systematic whitewashing of these crimes can best be explained by the fact that it was a key actor in the crimes. It cannot be expected to prosecute its own senior staffers, nor can it be expected to take actions that would further stain its already badly soiled reputation. But this very whitewashing raises fundamental doubt about the Obama Administration’s commitment to ending torture by American intelligence operatives. To the contrary, the Obama Administration’s handling of the matter appears to retain torture as a viable option for American foreign policy—one that Mitt Romney, with Michael Hayden at his side, would happily resume.’
‘For several decades, protection of whistleblowers has been a core political value for Democrats, at least for progressives. Daniel Ellsberg has long been viewed by liberals as an American hero for his disclosure of the top secret Pentagon Papers. In 2008, candidate Obama hailed whistleblowing as “acts of courage and patriotism”, which “should be encouraged rather than stifled as they have been during the Bush administration”.
‘President Obama, however, has waged the most aggressive and vindictive assault on whistleblowers of any president in American history, as even political magazines generally supportive of him have recognized and condemned. One might think that, as the party’s faithful gather to celebrate the greatness of this leader, this fact would be a minor problem, a source of some tension between Obama and his hardest-core supporters, perhaps even some embarrassment. One would be wrong.’
‘Far from shying away from this record of persecuting whistleblowers, the Obama campaign is proudly boasting of it.’
“I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges!”
I don’t understand it either, Ben. I really don’t. But I do know that the more depraved society becomes, the more this sort of thing is bound to happen. Rome, Germany, Soviet Union, etc.
Scum attracts scum.
The problem seems to be that this stuff goes on so far outside what the MSM perceives as its scope of reporting duties, leaving it below the radar screen of the America’s self image. Even if the citizens were fully informed, what could they individually do to stop covert activities that don’t agree with their personal values or official U.S. policy? It seems like only those at the top (Congress, president, etc) are in a position to challenge the conduct of covert operations, as any little guy who clamors too loudly might find himself labeled a terrorist and put behind bars for life. But once the top politicians fight through the election process to get the job, they may see little reason to cede hidden power which comes at low cost of political opposition.
I don’t support it either, Ben, but I REALLY don’t $upport full-scale invasions to accomplish the same objective. How much cheaper would it have been to assassinate Saddam Hussein in a targeted drone strike or through covert police action? (Although we all know that killing Saddam wasn’t the real objective of that little misadventure.)
Personally, I’m glad they didn’t send another US Army to Pakistan (although I personally would have liked to see OBL get his day in court if for no other reason than all the embarrassing revelations he’d have made).
As for targeting nominally US citizens who fight for American enemies, what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone (other than the cost and the risking of MORE American lives to take them out)?
That Obama apparently takes public responsibility for the decision strikes me as a more transparent prosecution of war than any of his modern predecessors have admitted to.
Again, I am a vocal and lifelong opponent of warfare and the military in general, but the moral dilemma aside, I have to err on the side of cost-effectiveness and minimized “collateral damage”. One Vietnam per lifetime is plenty.
I have to err on the side of cost-effectiveness and minimized “collateral damage”.
That’s a slippery slope argument. If you remember Iraq war and with the light foot print and smart bombs, it’s supposed to be one of the cost-effective wars with minimized collatoeral damage. How did that turn out?
More importantly, morally and philosophically is killing 10 any better thab killing 100?
‘what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone’
The 16 year old US boy they killed with a drone in Yemen wouldn’t have been on a battlefield. Never charged with anything, had just got to the country, probably to gather his assassinated fathers things. And BTW, we aren’t at war with Yemen, although we did prop up their dictator for 32 years, then replaced him with another.
‘How much cheaper would it have been to assassinate Saddam Hussein in a targeted drone strike or through covert police action’
While he sat around writing love novels? Probably pretty easy. But Bush didn’t invade to kill SH or they would have left after they caught him. They invaded for the oil and regional colonization.
‘One Vietnam per lifetime’
Didn’t the US have bombing campaigns in Cambodia and Laos? Weren’t US kill teams assassinating ‘enemies’ in those countries? I seem to remember there was a bit of an uproar about it when it was exposed, as we weren’t at war with these peoples.
‘Obama apparently takes public responsibility’
Somehow that credit doesn’t include the possibility of being charged with crimes. I’d say that’s no responsibility at all. Then there’s his covering up the war crimes of the previous administration, as I’m sure the one following his will do for him.
When we start making excuses for things like torture, which we declared illegal and signed treaties to that effect, we can make excuses for pretty much anything. And I’m sure if an atomic bomb goes off someday, a ready excuse will be trotted out. Something like, better to kill them over there; it keeps our ‘boys’ from dieing, etc. And some ‘leader’ will take responsibility, while those that do the killing can always say they were following orders.
>i>Obama apparently takes public responsibility’
Somehow that credit doesn’t include the possibility of being charged with crimes. I’d say that’s no responsibility at all.
This is why Obama is more dangerous than others. Others may be due to the guilt or shame would lie or hide in the dark. Obama on the other hand is actually daring us, “I did it, what are you going to do about it?”
“but I REALLY don’t $upport full-scale invasions ”
Make mud, not war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
Didn’t they try for YEARS to assassinate Saddam? They couldn’t get close. That’s what the body doubles were for.
Just like we couldn’t get Castro. I think the CIA spent $100 million trying to get him back around 1962. The money usually ends up going to some big-talking scammer who doesn’t have a clue how to pull it off, or is quickly outed by the leader’s security forces.
Like the woman says, “Sometimes I think that Peace Prize winners shouldn’t have a kill list”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJnAp3YxCCw
IAT
Bumping off US citizens who are working/living with our “Enemy du jour” is nothing new. It isn’t like getting whacked with a Hellfire missile if you digging a hole to plant a roadside bomb would be a surprise to anyone.
Peace-niks complained about “carpet-bombing”…….now they are complaining about “targeted assassinations”. Why not just cut to the chase? That you think military action of any type is unjustified?
Same with the torture thing. If someone is going to authorize it, they had better have a good reason, and be held accountable. (Not that I believe it’s even neccesary…….with all of the highly paid psycologists and pharmacutical experts we have on the payroll, torture shouldn’t even be needed, especially when you consider all of the negatives).
I am against war. I admit it.
We have a Defense Department. What a euphemism. It’s an OFFENSE department. They are on offense, trying to completely control everything around the world, and they commit offenses the world over. Thus, they are offensive.
When a human being walks down your street and sees threats in every corner — the woman opening her car door is a menace, you coming out of your front door to pick up the paper is a demon — we call those people paranoid, and we put them someplace safe to them to save us. But, when our defense department and president act like any nation that pursues its own national interest is a threat to the United States, we get people like X-GSfixer backing em up in their delusions that torture is EVER in the national interest of the United States.
So, Ben, you wondered how people can accept tyranny? By being paranoid. By being so paranoid any sane society would lock them away to save civilization.
IAT
the 2005 documentary Why We Fight does a good job of explaining why we really fight wars…should be required viewing for all Americans, but that would never happen.
‘you think military action of any type is unjustified’
Not self defense. How far ‘they’ have stretched this logic, though. If a sparrow falls from the sky on an unnamed mountain in a country almost no one has heard of, there will be a person that can make a ’security’ issue of it.
Being the worlds policeman is folly enough. Borrowing trillion$ from China to do so weakens not just national defense, but national existence.
We had to pay contractors to protect our bases in Iraq, before they ran our butts out in the middle of the night. A bunch of goat herders are showing us the door in Afghanistan. At this point, I don’t think we’re frightening anyone who doesn’t like us. And there are more that don’t like us everyday precisely because of these killings.
I’m less worried about this now; the handwriting is on the wall, IMO. The US has borrowed so much money that paying it off is impossible. Someday, the bond markets will cut off the Pentagon. Unfortunately, a lot of other stuff will be cut too. The cost of empire is accelerating that process. And some of us will say, we told you so.
Bush didn’t invade to kill SH or they would have left after they caught him. They invaded for the oil and regional colonization.
We did not take oil and we did not colonize.
‘We did not take oil and we did not colonize’
Yeah, but those idiots tried!
‘there’s been little focus on its possible role as a venue for consultations between Big Oil and the administration about Iraq. One intriguing piece of evidence pointing in this direction was a National Security Council directive, dated February 2001, instructing NSC staff to co-operate fully with the task force. The NSC document, reported in The New Yorker magazine, noted that the task force would be considering the ‘melding’ of two policy areas: ‘the review of operational policies towards rogue states’ and ‘actions regarding the capture of new and existing oil and gas fields.’ This certainly implies that the Cheney task force was considering geopolitical questions about actions related to the capture of oil and gas reserves in ‘rogue’ states, including presumably Iraq.”
‘Dick Cheney, Autumn 1999: Speech at the Institute of Petroleum… by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously controlling about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer great oil opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world‘s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies’
http://www.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Zeitfragen/Cheney_on_Oil/cheney_on_oil.html
‘On April 19, 2003, soon after American troops entered Baghdad, Times’ reporters Thom Shanker and Eric Schmitt had a striking front-page piece headlined, “Pentagon Expects Long-Term Access to Four Key Bases in Iraq.” It began:
“The United States is planning a long-term military relationship with the emerging government of Iraq, one that would grant the Pentagon access to military bases and project American influence into the heart of the unsettled region, senior Bush administration officials say. American military officials, in interviews this week, spoke of maintaining perhaps four bases in Iraq that could be used in the future: one at the international airport just outside Baghdad; another at Tallil, near Nasiriya in the south; the third at an isolated airstrip called H-1 in the western desert, along the old oil pipeline that runs to Jordan; and the last at the Bashur air field in the Kurdish north.”
‘The Pentagon, that is, arrived in Baghdad with at least a four-base strategy for the long-term occupation of the country already on the drawing boards. These were to be mega-bases, essentially fortified American towns on which those 30,000-40,000 troops could hunker down for a South-Korean-style eternity. The Pentagon was officially not looking for “permanent basing,” as it slyly claimed, but “permanent access.”
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174807/tom_engelhardt_the_great_american_disconnect
Someday, the bond markets will cut off the Pentagon.
How is that possible, Ben? What stops the Fed from just buying up all of the debt that the government issues?
“As for targeting nominally US citizens who fight for American enemies, what’s the difference between shooting them in battle and blowing them up with a drone (other than the cost and the risking of MORE American lives to take them out)?”
1. Is it legal to kill US citizens if you use a drone?
2. If it is illegal whether or not you use a drone, which way is more likely to result in getting caught?
“…it’s supposed to be one of the cost-effective wars with minimized collateral damage. How did that turn out?”
Moral hazard problem of cost-effective warfare: Lower costs result in more wars.
I agree with X-GSf. US citizens who support or fight for the enemy in a war lose their Constitutional rights. It’s been thus in every war. It would have been impossible to fight the South in the Civil War if we had to bring each Southern soldier to trial.
I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists. They thought they could sit in the comfort and safety of their mountain retreats in Kookistan, and send their brainwashed holy warriors to the West to terrorize us, at little or no cost to themselves. Now, they suddenly find that it is we who can sit in the comfort of our home bases, and blow up the terrorist warlords. I bet they pooped their burkas when that first started happening.
Now, it’s them, not us, who have to live in fear of sudden death, constantly on their guard, their whole lifestyle changed for the worst, fear a constant companion. Exactly what they thought they were going to visit on us.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
“…better to kill them over there; it keeps our ‘boys’ from dieing, etc. And some ‘leader’ will take responsibility, while those that do the killing can always say they were following orders.”
Isn’t that pretty much a tidy summary of the argument for why Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened? The military chain of command system apparently gives blanket coverage for actions taken down the chain, provided nobody ‘goes rogue.’
The 16 year old US boy they killed with a drone in Yemen wouldn’t have been on a battlefield.
Battlefield? When is the last time we had a battlefield?
‘Peace-niks complained about “carpet-bombing”…….now they are complaining about “targeted assassinations”. Why not just cut to the chase? That you think military action of any type is unjustified?’
Strawman argument alert
“The US has borrowed so much money that paying it off is impossible. Someday, the bond markets will cut off the Pentagon. Unfortunately, a lot of other stuff will be cut too. The cost of empire is accelerating that process. And some of us will say, we told you so.”
Which candidate is more likely to turn this situation around?
Neither?
I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists.
Interesting point.
Isn’t that pretty much a tidy summary of the argument for why Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened?
At it’s core, yes. The decision to use atomic weapons to force the Japanese to surrender was made because War Department estimates of the cost of invading Japan in similar fashion to the islands occupied by the Japanese, like Iwo Jima were catastrophic for America.
Note the Japanese didn’t surrender, they fought to the death. They were fanatic in their devotion. At Iwo Jima, there were 22,000 Japanese soldiers. Only 200 were taken prisoner. The US Marines suffered 26,000 casualties, with almost 7,000 dead.
So, at it’s core, do you value American lives over the lives of our enemies? To say all life is equal is not realistic, nor desirable, in war…
‘he decision to use atomic weapons to force the Japanese to surrender was made because War Department estimates of the cost of invading Japan in similar fashion to the islands occupied by the Japanese, like Iwo Jima were catastrophic for America’
‘.in [July] 1945… Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. …the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.’
“During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face’. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude…”
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:
“…the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.”
- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63
‘ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY
(Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman)
“It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
“The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”
- William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441.
‘ On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: “I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you’ll get a peace in Japan - you’ll have both wars over.”
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.
On August 8, 1945, after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, Hoover wrote to Army and Navy Journal publisher Colonel John Callan O’Laughlin, “The use of the atomic bomb, with its indiscriminate killing of women and children, revolts my soul.”
quoted from Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 635.
“…the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945…up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; …if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs.”
- quoted by Barton Bernstein in Philip Nobile, ed., Judgment at the Smithsonian, pg. 142
Hoover biographer Richard Norton Smith has written: “Use of the bomb had besmirched America’s reputation, he [Hoover] told friends. It ought to have been described in graphic terms before being flung out into the sky over Japan.”
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 349-350.
In early May of 1946 Hoover met with General Douglas MacArthur. Hoover recorded in his diary, “I told MacArthur of my memorandum of mid-May 1945 to Truman, that peace could be had with Japan by which our major objectives would be accomplished. MacArthur said that was correct and that we would have avoided all of the losses, the Atomic bomb, and the entry of Russia into Manchuria.”
Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 350-351.
‘ MacArthur biographer William Manchester has described MacArthur’s reaction to the issuance by the Allies of the Potsdam Proclamation to Japan: “…the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face ‘prompt and utter destruction.’ MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General’s advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary.”
William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.
Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, “MacArthur’s views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed.” He continues, “When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.”
Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.
There’s more:
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm
“More importantly, morally and philosophically is killing 10 any better thab killing 100?”
Ask the 90 and their families.
Lots of “mights” and “maybes” in those quotes Ben. Want to know what the facts are? After we dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, they surrendered, and no more American lives were lost.
Ask yourself, why didn’t the Japanese surrender at any time prior to the dropping of the bombs? Was it that they were trying to save face, because if that was the case, the Japanese lost 100,000’s because of trying to save their honor…
Ask yourself, would you feel differently if you had been one of the poor Marines on a transport, waiting for the orders to invade Japan? Would you feel differently about the atomic bombs if it had been your brother or father or son killed in action against the Japanese? If it was your brother, father or son waiting to die because the Japanese valued their honor over life?
Iwo Jima. Cut off from supply and surrounded by the US Pacific Fleet. 22,000 Japanese soldiers could have surrendered at any point prior to the marines coming ashore. They didn’t, and 21, 800 died in battle… all that talk of Japan being ready to “surrender” was exactly that, talk. Meanwhile, the Japanese soldiers were willing to die to uphold their honor, and if it took American lives, so be it.
‘all that talk of Japan being ready to “surrender’
Yeah, what did Eisenhower, MacArthur, etc, know. They probably didn’t even have the history channel to set them straight.
“So, at it’s core, do you value American lives over the lives of our enemies? To say all life is equal is not realistic, nor desirable, in war…”
Strawman argument alert # ????
Ben Jones = strawman argument drone striker
“Ask yourself, why didn’t the Japanese surrender at any time prior to the dropping of the bombs?”
I asked myself, and the answer I received was that maybe the Japanese weren’t yet abjectly defeated at any potential point of surrender prior to the dropping of the bombs. But that doesn’t obviate Eisenhower’s argument, and he had a front-row seat to the situation.
“I agree with X-GSf. US citizens who support or fight for the enemy in a war lose their Constitutional rights. It’s been thus in every war.”
“I also think the drones are a brilliant turnabout on the terrorists.”
Coming from the same group of people who sent human shields over to Iraq before the invasion. I guess it just depends on who is President. Guarantee those words don’t leave you lips if Obama was not in the White House.
Guarantee those words don’t leave you lips if Obama was not in the White House.
We’ll see…in four more years.
Right as the plantation was about to be burned down, the owner/s installed a slave as “master”.
People don’t know what to do because its like a curve ball, slider and knuckle ball all coming at you in one ball in one pitch, at the same time.
“of persecuting whistleblowers, the Obama campaign is proudly boasting….”
I’m curious about examples of this.
Also, not that I am in disbelief, but what is the basis for saying that Romney would eagerly continue this evil.
The “other” guy answers to the same masters.
‘what is the basis for saying that Romney would eagerly continue this evil’
From the Harpers story:
‘Former CIA director and current Romney national-security adviser Michael Hayden and former President Bush have both asserted that only three individuals held in detention by the CIA were ever waterboarded. The report would establish these claims as untruthful.’
Romney supports the NDAA. He never attacks the White House for assassinations or other unconstitutional acts. He never even mentions it.
And there you have the answer to how we put up with this.
About a year into Obama, my wife just gave up hoping for better.
Second term will be better. I promise.
‘what is the basis for saying that Romney would eagerly continue this evil’ … He never attacks the White House for assassinations or other unconstitutional acts. He never even mentions it.
Not attacking/mentioning is not a basis for predicting what Romney will do.
2nd term for Obama? It’s not going to happen.
Nothing is known in advance. The only thing you can be 100% sure of is what you have experienced since you woke up this morning. Once you fall asleep tonight your subconscious will review and rearrange your memories for today and then your total recall starts to drop off as does the accuracy of your memory. Try keeping a diary for a month or two and you will see what I mean.
Atheists & LGBT for Obama!
“Atheists & LGBT for Obama!”
You left out the questioning community.
Hear hear.
They support them because they crave the illusion of having some control over the situation.
Same with stockholders. The true owners of a corporation do not control what they own, they just get to pay the bills that the ones in control get to run up.
What’s really great about being the head of a large corporation is that you have at your disposal all the money you need to select and finance your guy that you want to be sent to Washington.
The stockholders get to supply the money, you get to spend it.
“…we finally have a nation where people of all colors, genders, sexual orientations, and creeds can be imprisoned for life without trial.”
Have you looked recently at the “velvet” handcuffs you wear?
Here’s a brief education by a great cartoonist.
Dronetopia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frwAE5HG284
Where I sit is within a two-mile radius of Northrup Grumman Corporation’s local office. Friends of our family work there, including one of my wife’s former (adult) piano students. Perhaps our proximity to this and other defense contractor operations helps explain our chronically unaffordable housing prices, as I am pretty sure they support lots of high-paying engineering jobs.
Northrop Grumman is the recognized leader in Unmanned Systems (UMS). The depth and breadth of the company’s platforms and technologies portfolio provide customers with a wide range of advanced and new capabilities that directly benefit the military and citizens worldwide. They also deliver critical sensor technology. UMS operate in areas where manned vehicles can’t, allow for prolonged missions, which are not limited by human endurance, and help reduce risk to both national security, and human lives.
Watch the video below as Gary Ervin of Aerospace Systems discusses why UMS is one of our great strategic imperatives.
We accept it because we are given a dichotomy of options, but on this issue, both options are the same.
We have the Republicans that set up the global torture prison system, and the Dems that didn’t take them apart.
The other parties are lucky to pull 5% of the vote.
Hey, it’s a private club and you are not a member!
(But nevertheless you gotta pay the dues.)
“We accept it because we are given a dichotomy of options, but on this issue, both options are the same.”
Educated Americans know that the alternative is the draft of their youth, so they play the game albeit quietly.
“I don’t understand how people support politicians that assume powers like this (nobody gave these to them), because they are for ‘the middle class’, or something like that. Jeebus people, these folks assassinate citizens with no trial or charges!”
The supreme court doesn’t appear to be concerned.
It’s clear that the lobby system in Washington DC has created
the greatest number of traitors in Political office today than
we care to admit . The Political talk is absurd and appears to
just be a attempt to keep the status quo of the great robbery of the middle class worker gains of over 70 years ,including freedoms that were established in the past .
It has become a absurd system in which the protection of
Wall Street/Banks ,Corp America ,Monopolies ,and the Military complex is what is being protected ,and the great
robbery of the majority population in the USA continues .
What is the military protecting these days ,no doubt the interest of Corp America that is everywhere in the World and they know no boundaries . So what if China produces 7 out of the 10 GMC cars made and GMC partners up with China in this manufacturing . The World is the Corporations oyster and just leave the USA worker in ruins . Ford Moter Corp build a Plant in Mexico now ,yet they want all the benefits of being considered a America Company that even asked for bail outs at one time . Apparently they had no intentions of benefiting the American work force in that they built their new Plant in Mexico . We bailed out car Companies that are giving that many jobs to other Countries ,how absurd .
We didn’t address the health care costs and why the Health care system wasn’t sustainable any more ,and in large part due to the price fixing monopoly it is and the parasites that
fleece it ,such as the Private insurance companies and big Pharma and health care providers . Health care has become so bad that it account for close to a million preventable deaths a year now ,yet no attempt to get to the bottom of this unacceptable stat on the performance of that industry .
Its all very clear that Washington DC no longer has any allegience to the USA worker Citizen ,and its questionable what interest the Miltary is protecting these days . The great tranfer of weath to few hands is evidence of the corruption of the USA system , in which Politicians have been bribed
to become TRAITORS on the duty of the protection of the USA Citizen .Globalism and free trade is a form of TREASON to the interest of the Citizens of America and it only benefits the one percenters and middle men and casinos of Wall Street .
Throw all the bums out of Washington DC and maybe try them for Treason . Either that or decouple yourself from their systems that are designed to rob you of your life ,liberty and pursuit of happiness and all the gains that were made in the last 100 years for the common man and women .
The Politicians won’t discuss the real issues ,instead they want to discuss how to enrich the corrupted systems while they talk about how the majority has to give up and how dare they feel entitled to anything . Give up ,give up ,give up ,and while your at it take lower wages while the price fixing monopolies raise prices . Become a Nation of people misdirecting resourses into the gambling casinos of Wall Street while jobs aren’t created or insured that they are even put into the USA that would benefit our workers .
Kick all the Traitors out ,they only know how to be bribed .
What is the military protecting these days ,no doubt the interest of Corp America that is everywhere in the World and they know no boundaries
The entire front page of our local fishwrap was dedicated to a local Army sarge who died overseas. He was described as a “hero”.
I couldn’t help but shake my head. That poor sap threw his life away to protect the economic interests of billionaires, many who are not even Americans.
That poor sap threw his life away to protect the economic interests of billionaires, many who are not even Americans.
Ask the Roman Legionnaire why he fought? It was for the glory of Rome…
Is service to one’s country any different today than it was 2000 years ago?
So true that the good intention guy threw his life away for the elite .It reaches the point in which why should people care what happens if all their opportunity for a better life is taken away and the Country they live in betrays them .
What borders would people be fighting for anymore ? I’m suppose to fight for GMC to protect their interest in their deals with China and giving their people jobs .Lets get serious .
I understand it. Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Experience teaches a dear school, but fools will learn in no other. And, I am sure you could provide many other kernels of wisdom the human species has accumulated through the ages of the folly of thinking one can cozy up to tyrants and avoid being a target of them in the end.
So, I understand their accepting each step into tyranny. I just totally disagree with their folly.
IAT
The author has apparently forgotten Patriot Acts 1 & 2.
So much for the idea of consumers (I hate that word) deleveraging. This story rains hard on that parade…
Subprime auto nation
Key point:
The storyline being sold to the vegetative dupes (watching Honey Boo Boo) that occupy space in this delusional paradise we call America, by the corporate media, is that consumers have deleveraged and are ready to resume their “normal” pattern of spending money they don’t have on stuff they don’t need. Of course, the facts always seem to get in the way of a good yarn. Consumers have never deleveraged. Consumer credit outstanding is at an all-time high of $2.58 trillion. The decline from $2.55 trillion in 2008 to $2.4 trillion in 2010 was NOT deleveraging. It was the Wall Street Too Big To Fail banks taking a big dump on the American taxpayers. They passed their bad debts to you through TARP, the Federal Reserve buying their toxic “assets”, and ZIRP.
Revolving credit (credit card) debt peaked at just above $1 trillion in 2008 and “declined” to $850 billion during 2010. The media storyline is that you buckled down and paid off your credit cards, therefore depressing consumer spending and creating a recession. Sounds convincing except for the fact that it’s a load of [bleep]. The Federal Reserve’s own data proves it to be false. Your friendly Wall Street banks have written off $213 billion of credit card debt since 2008 and passed the bill to the few remaining taxpayers in this country. For the math challenged, this means that consumers have actually INCREASED their credit card debt by $68 billion since 2008. The bad news for our Chinese crap peddling mega-retailers is that the significantly poorer average middle class American household is using their credit cards to pay their property tax bills, IRS bills, and utility bills in order to survive.
Great truth AZ…
Yet the media continues to post lies providing cover for the rotting empire.
“The bad news for our Chinese crap peddling mega-retailers is that the significantly poorer average middle class
American household is using their credit cards to pay their property tax bills, IRS bills, and utility bill in order to survive.”
There it is. Cash - and cash flow - rules.
It used to be Americans borrowed because they wanted to, now they are borrowing because they have to. At least this is how it is for those who haven’t got the bucks.
Until this credit in no longer available, cash is not king. Cash has been crowded out by credit. Prices of goods and services are still overinflated due to King Credit. I hope, one day soon, cash is king again.
Cash is king because there is no charge for owning cash.
But there is a charge for borrowing cash and the more desperate one is for cash the greater is the charge.
“…the more desperate one is for cash the greater is the charge.”
Also the more quantitative easing happens, the less is the charge.
Aside: Do shotgun weddings often lead to happy marriages?
Huge Step Taken by Europe’s Bank to Abate a Crisis
By JACK EWING and STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: September 6, 2012
Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank. Through his efforts to save the currency, Mr. Draghi may now be the most powerful leader in Europe.
FRANKFURT — The European Central Bank on Thursday took its most ambitious step yet toward easing the euro zone crisis, throwing its unlimited financial clout behind an effort to protect Spain and Italy from financial collapse.
Mario Draghi, the president of the central bank, won nearly unanimous support from the bank’s board to buy vast amounts of government bonds, a move that would relieve investor pressure on troubled countries but also effectively spread responsibility for repaying national debts to the euro zone countries as a group.
The decision propels political leaders farther down the uncertain and winding road toward a Europe with centralized control over government spending and economic policy, instead of a collection of nation states that sometimes seem to share little more than a currency and a slumping regional economy.
…
“…no charge for owning cash.”
Is inflation risk nonexistent on your planet?
But there is a charge for borrowing cash ??
Sure is but if the Rate of Return exceeds that cost then thats profit….
“Also the more quantitative easing happens, the less the charge.”
Yeah, right. Here’s the charge for quantitative easing:
“… Mr. Draghi may be the most powerful leader in europe.”
He who control the bucks ultimately controls it all.
Go ahead and set up your governments, establish your freedoms and independence and all that, then when things get a bit tight come and see me and then we will sit down and maybe discuss what is what.
What are the Unintended consequences from all this federal reserve involvement ?? We know what was the desired effect…We can see that with the stock market…What I don’t think we know, is, what will be the cost to the country…Its people….
what will be the cost to the country…Its people….
Exactly what we are seeing right now. More unemployment..more job loss..money in hands of few people…speculative bubbles…..
“Just as the rich rule the poor, the borrower is servant to the lender.” - Proverbs 22:7.
It’s their game and they spent a lot of money setting up their game; All they need now are players.
So why not win by default, win by not playing?
If they need you more than you need them then why not keep it this way?
I am wondering about 5-10-20 years from now…This great recession has moved many from solid middle class to get-by standards…And that transformation continues…You wonder if they will ever recover given the apparent lack of good job opportunities…
Given the age of my children, I meet many of their friends…Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
It’s not only a financial decision. Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others. Me generation and all……
“Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others.”
A bit of Darwinism in action, perhaps?
Many are just not capable of even a slight sacrifice in order to form a long lasting relationship with others ??
Yep…I see this mostly with the guys although with the girls also…They appear fearful as much as their appearance that they are not willing to sacrifice…It may have some to do with the divorce rates soaring over the last 20 years or so…They have likely witnessed a lot of ugliness through their friends or in many cases their own family…
Given the age of my children, I meet many of their friends…Its quite shocking how many of them have no interest in getting married or having children…Their reasoning is; I can barely take care of myself…
I’m seeing this as well.
“So why not win by default, win by not playing?”
+1
+1, combo.
total household debt is, in fact down. Non-mortgage debt is up, but mortgage debt is down…..
De-Leveraging via jingle mail.
Another narrative was we saved GM and Chrysler. No we didn’t. It’s like a patient after a massive heart attack, we did the bypass and rehab and finally patient is on his feet again. Unfortunately the patient is also back to his unhealthy lifestyles. This will end exactly like it did.
Same goes for the mini housing bubble we are seeing in some parts.
Hey, Slim. You sure you don’t want to make that trip to DC in December?
http://www.nmwa.org/exhibitions/women-who-rock
Women Who Rock: Vision, Passion, Power on view September 7, 2012–January 6, 2013.
Women Who Rock: Vision, Passion, Power is a provocative exhibition that illustrates the importance of women in the world of popular music from the 1920s to present day. It highlights the flashpoints, the firsts, the best, and the celebrated and sometimes lesser-known women whose artistry advanced the progress of rock-and-roll music. Featuring more than 250 artifacts and performance videos, the exhibition moves through rock-and-roll eras, demonstrating how women have been engines of creation and change.
Women played a central role in the development of the rock-and-roll genre, beginning with early blues artists, like Ma Rainey and Bessie Smith. Spirited rhythm-and-blues singers—such as Ruth Brown, LaVern Baker, and rockabilly queen Wanda Jackson—added their creative talents to popular music through its explosive growth in the ’50s. Girl groups, like the Shirelles and Supremes, dominated the charts in the early ’60s while Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, and Joni Mitchell carried the torch into the ’70s. Today, music is ruled by women from Lady Gaga to Alicia Keys, Rihanna to Carrie Underwood.
Featured artifacts from these women and many more include clothing, musical instruments, handwritten lyrics and music, session cards, concert posters, photographs, dressing room notes, appointment notebooks, and a Tony award statuette.
Women have not always been welcome in the rock-and-roll world, but despite the odds, female rockers have thrived. Growing out of the margins and into the mainstream, they have gained an unassailable place at the top of the charts.
Women Who Rock Programs
Programs are listed individually on the Calendar or all together in our blog post.
I clicked the link but didn’t see an artist list. Liz Phair better be in there some where…
“The average loan-to-value on new cars was 109.55%”
Presumably this is to cover dealer destination fees, sales tax and the first year registration stickers.
China’s solution to the car bubbles:
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2012/08/27/1-million-beijingers-waiting-shot-car-ownership/
I will never buy another new car.
First, I really can’t afford one. 30K+? Get outta here! (new F150 with the Ecotec engine, loaded. 50K. Bullcrap, It’s still just a damn pick’em up truck, not a BMW/Lexus. Don’t get me started on the “Escalade”)
Second, devaluation is far too high. I can buy that same car 2-3 years from now and get a much better price. Damn near half in many cases.
3rd, new car dealers. May they rot in hell.
4th. Sub prime loan. Which is what everyone gets who doesn’t have perfect credit. Which is… everyone.
Cars are THE biggest scam and drain on the household budget that was ever invented and most of us have to have one because our local mass transit system is damn near, no, wait, IS non-existent.
I don’t consider cars and trucks a scam at all. They are a wonderful tool which I greatly appreciate. I am a very mobile person, and I like the fact that I can get into a piece of machinery and end up 900 miles away in the same day. Sure, there are costs, but I am happy to pay for that freedom. Fuel is pretty pricey these days, but I also have a gas sipper in addition to my truck.
Second, devaluation is far too high. I can buy that same car 2-3 years from now and get a much better price. Damn near half in many cases.
Used to be. Now it can take 5-6 years for a car to depreciate 50%.
“First, I really can’t afford one. 30K+?”
Got a nice one for $25K earlier this year.
“Second, devaluation is far too high.”
Hint: Try Japanese automobiles (got three parked out front, very slowly depreciating)
“3rd, new car dealers. May they rot in hell.”
Next time, visit this site before shopping: Truecar.com
When you visit the dealer, take along the best quote from a nearby rival dealer on the car that interests you. Have it ready to pull out the moment the dealer first throws out a strawman price several thousand dollars about the car’s actual market value; stops ‘em cold.
“4th. Sub prime loan. Which is what everyone gets who doesn’t have perfect credit. Which is… everyone.”
Much better use of cash than wasting it on a downpayment to buy a house whose future drop in value to underwater levels could soon wipe out the downpayment.
“5th. Cars are an inflation hedge which also help you get to work.”
Hey Slim, ready to try your hand on the Fliz (new german bike). Look like it could be a great workout.
What happens when you let a free sh*t army into your house…
————————
Landlord ‘nightmare’ in eviction attempt (San Francisco)
San Francisco Chronicle | September 7, 2012 | Neal J. Riley
Janet Sluizer knew she was taking a bit of a chance when she turned to Craigslist this summer to find a tenant for her apartment in the Mission.What she didn’t expect was that she’d be spending thousands of dollars in a struggle to evict a roommate who she says hasn’t paid rent beyond the first month.
“This is a nightmare,”Sluizer said.
It’s a nightmare that landlord advocates say is all too common in SanFrancisco, where 64 percent of residents rent.
…..According to [Janan]New[executive director of the San Francisco Apartment Association], a combination of confusing rent ordinances and an abundance of free legal resources for tenants make it difficult for inexperienced landlords to evict someone on their own.
“A lot of the situations in other counties would be dealt simply with a 30-day notice and that’s the end of it,….In San Francisco,you just can’t do that.”
According to SuperiorCourt records, seven unlawful detainer suits have been filed against [Louis]Podover in San Francisco. Landlord attorney Drexel Bradshaw has a term for those who game the system by paying only the first month’s rent and delaying eviction proceedings: professional tenants.
“They move in, they take advantage and they end up living rent free,” he said. “A few days before the prospective subtenant is forced to move out, they’ll find another landlord of whom they can take advantage.”
[Sluizer] said she takes full responsibility for not getting anything in writing from Podover as soon as he moved in, something that landlord attorneys said is a recipe for disaster. She said she’s offered to pay movers and cover a motel for two weeks for Podover, anything to get her piece of mind back.
“This guy is having a field day on my dime,” she said. “I just want him out of my house.”
“This guy is having a field day on my dime,” she said. “I just want him out of my house.”
California Dreamin’
all the leaves are brown
and the sky is grey
I rented to a Beat
and the Beat don`t pay
I’d be safe and warm
if he`d go away
California Dreamin’
bout Deadbeats who don`t pay
stopped into a church
I passed along the way
well, I got down on my knees
and I pretend to pray
Well the Deadbeat is entrenched
I know he’s gonna stay
California Dreamin’
bout Deadbeats who don`t pay
“This guy is having a field day on my dime,” she said. “I just want him out of my house.”
What was his credit score at application time?
My sister got rid of such a moocher by waiting until he was gone for the day, renting a U-Haul, loading all his stuff into it, and driving it outside the main gate of her guarded community where she parked it, along with instructions to the guard never to let him in again. Then she had a confederate call the guy and tell him that he had 48 hours before she reported the truck stolen. Never heard another word from him.
Your sister is cool.
When I was going house-hunting, the realtor asked if I had ever considered a housemate. Well sure… what Realtor wants to sell a house to a person, if she can sell a more expensive house to a person who promises to get a housemate?
I put the kibosh on that very quickly.
The article clearly states it was her fault for not having a contract.
Ritholtz rules for dealing with Wall Street….. Now….. Read it through the lens of buying a house from a RealTard.
1. Reward is always relative to risk: If any product or investment sounds as if it has lots of upside, it also has lots of risk. If you can disprove this, there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you.
2. Asymmetrical information: In all negotiated sales, one party has far more information, knowledge and experience about the product being bought and sold. One party knows its undisclosed warts and risks better than the other. Which party are you?
3.Good advice is priceless: I know, easier said than done. The Street buys the best legal talent, mathematicians and strategists that money can buy. Make sure you have expert advisers and lawyers working for you as well.
4. Motivation:Always ask, what is the motivation of the outfit selling me this product? Is it the long-term stability and financial health of my organization — or their own fees and commissions?
5. Legal documents are created to protect the preparer (and its firm), not you or yours: In the history of modern finance, no large legal document has worked against its drafters. Private placement memorandums, sales agreement, arbitration clauses — firms use these to protect themselves, not you.
6. Performance: How significantly do the fees, interest rates commissions, etc., have an impact on the performance of this investment vehicle over time? Determining for yourself what the actual cost of money is will avoid more heartache in the future.
7. Shareholder obligation: All publicly traded firms (including investment banks and bond underwriters) have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits. This is far greater than any duty owed of care to you, the client. Always ask yourself whether this new product benefits the shareholders or your organization. (This is acutely important for untested products.)
8. Reputational risk: Who suffers if this investment goes down the drain? Who gets fired or voted out of office if this blows up? Who suffers reputational risk?
9. Keep it simple, stupid (KISS): It’s easy to make things complicated, but it’s very challenging to make them simple. The more complexity brought to a problem, the greater the potential for things to go awry — not just astray, but very, very wrong.
10. There is no free lunch: Repeat after me: There is no free money, no riskless trade, no way to turn lead into gold. If you remember no other rule, this is the one that will save your hide time and again.
Exactly.
Who typically has a significant chunk of the shares? The executive team. This is just a obfuscated way of saying that their profit is paramount over all other concerns.
Now - profit is good. It’s good for the individual and for the society, if it doesn’t cause significant collateral damage. But, my point is that ’shareholder value’ is just obfuscatory language.
“If any product or investment sounds as if it has lots of upside, it also has lots of risk. If you can disprove this, there is a Nobel Prize waiting for you.”
Suppose you existed as a too-big-to-fail financial entity; if times were good, you’d generate profits; in bad times, bailouts would fill your coffers.
Wouldn’t this example constitute disproof? Now where is my Nobel Prize?
Trick-sie!
THE eurozone crisis will get worse before it gets better and Greece could exit the single currency bloc within a year, Swedish Finance Minister Anders Borg said in an interview.
“I don’t think we’ve seen the worst yet in countries like Spain and Greece. They have such serious problems that Europe is going to be in a very difficult position during the next six to 12 months,” Borg told public broadcaster Swedish Radio.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/breaking-news/greece-could-exit-eurozone-soon-sweden/story-e6frf7ko-1226468238993
reland’s government will probably fail in its bid to secure an accord to reduce its legacy banking debt by the end of October, two people with direct knowledge of the talks said.
European Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said in July that concrete proposals on the Irish question would be presented to euro-area finance ministers in September before a final decision in October. The details are unlikely to be on the agenda when ministers meet in Cyprus next week, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private
European leaders are focusing primarily on bringing down Spanish borrowing costs before turning attention to Ireland, the people said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-07/ireland-said-likely-to-miss-october-target-to-ease-bank-burden.html
Unfortunately for Greece and Ireland, unlike Spain they are not to big to fail.
“Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated,” Swedish Finance Minister Anders Borg said in an interview.
The company promised to create 500 jobs by 2014 and make annual payments toward its $40 million Tradition Studio in exchange for a $71 million state and city incentive package.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_st_lucie_county/port_st_lucie/reports-of-digital-domains-facility-in-port-st-lucie-closing
$71 million can pay for a lot of pensions. Or could have.
To D in Phoenix,
“About a year into Obama, my wife just gave up hoping for better.”
The problem Darrell is that hope calls for no action, no effort, no investment of self. It should be eliminated from the English language. A pig wallowing in a sty could hope not to end up as bacon on the breakfast table. Maybe your wife should hope for the worst and if she got the worst her hope would be fulfilled and if things turned out better she could jump for joy.
I sure ‘hope’ that you didn’t purchase your condo on hoping to make a profit, or hoping the neighborhood takes a turn for the better, or hoping that you’ll have no maintenance costs like A/C, or hoping someone doesn’t take of with the HOA fees, etc. Reality based decisions always work out the best.
You remove hope and you will loose the ability to plan for the future. The very act of hoping creates the mental framework that allows your mind to construct a variety of alternate plans and actions that can be acted upon. Hope is embedded in human nature.
BS, “hope is embedded in human nature”?
I guess that I missed out on that gene and got a double dose of the survival gene coupled with common sense and tempered with observations of cause and effect! It’s real easy to plan for the future by watching the mistakes of others and leading not being led.
For someone so full of yourself, you sure aren’t very smart.
You were unable the discern the context of my wife losing hope, in regards to foreign policy and war.
You seem to not be paying a lot of attention if you think all my wife and I do is passively hope. I joined the Navy at 19, made E6 in 5 years (average is about 9.5 years). During 4 years of shore duty, while working full time as a computer programmer, I earned a BSCS with a 4.0 GPA. I now work for IBM and make in excess of $90K a year.
My wife was a later in life student, earning her masters at 35. She now works as a senior IT analyst in the health care industry earning $80K a year.
We’re hardly ones to just sit back waiting for things to happen for us.
You know I am buying a townhouse, but seem totally ignorant as to the dozens of times that I’ve repeatedly stated that this is not being purchased as an investment. I know it is an expense. I am using it for one thing and one thing only, as a place to house my children that is cheaper than renting from someone else.
I have an IQ of 140. Put 1000 random people in a room with me, odds are I’m the smartest person in the room. I aced every calculus, stats, and other math test I’ve ever taken. I was one of the loudest talking about the bubble to everyone I knew back in in 2003-2006.
The townhouse is $48.4K. As if that is some big investment. If it goes to $0, I’m out less than 1/3rd of a year’s income. If it were to double, which it won’t, over the next 10 years, it would be about as much as we’re putting into 401(k)s in about 3 years.
You need to climb down off your high horse and buy a clue before trying to get in my face again.
Darryl The Liar,
You’re lying once again.
Why do you lie so?
You were unable the discern the context of my wife losing hope,
Wait, “RAL is Al Queda”—are you actually Darrell???
You’re not the same as “RAL is a Liar”, are you? It’s getting so hard to keep track.
Do you not care one way or the other whether your plans work out? If you care, well, that’s just a synonym for hope. If you don’t care, why make any plans at all?
IAT
Salinasron says, at 2012-09-08 13:31:09″
BS, “hope is embedded in human nature”?
I guess that I missed out on that gene and got a double dose of the survival gene coupled with common sense and tempered with observations of cause and effect! It’s real easy to plan for the future by watching the mistakes of others and leading not being led.
I say: Do you not care one way or the other whether your plans work out? If you care, well, that’s just a synonym for hope. If you don’t care, why make any plans at all?
IAT
Hope and survival instinct go hand in hand.
“The problem Darrell is that hope calls for no action, no effort, no investment of self.”
“The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved; the pig is committed”
Note to board, I keep trying to let the townhouse purchase go, but others keep bringing it up.
No, I do not hope to make a profit. Having owned a home for 18 of the last 20 years, yeah, I know stuff breaks. There is nothing wrong with the neighborhood so has no need of taking a turn for the better.
The schools aren’t the greatest, but that won’t be an issue for at least 4 years as the youngest child that will be moving into it is 6 months old.
The hoping for better was that Obama was not going to do things like drone strikes and the like. Less than a year into his presidency, she had accepted that Obama was going to continue the Bush wars full force.
Let me see if I can get this across ONE MORE TIME. I’m buying the townhouse as an expense, not an investment. It is a place to house my kids, not something I expect to get anything out of other than that. An expense for a place to house my kids that is cheaper than rent.
I do not understand why that is so hard for people to grasp!
I just ate lunch. Guess what. That was an expense too, not an investment.
You’re a liar.
RAL is Al Queda, working for the total collapse of what he calls, “the rotten empire”.
Liars like you are the rotten empire so you’re quite correct. We’re working to expose your lies. Every. Single. Time.
You Liar.
4 years go by real quick.
What is your plan is 2016 going forward?
Private school (the irony)?
Home School?
Sell and move?
Hope for the best with the best public union money can buy?
The plan is that the 25 year old daughter will have payed off debt, repaired credit and saved up a huge down payment, and will be in a better position to get her own place anywhere else she wants to live by then.
Malibu tidbits on Redfin: Yesterday 2:24 PM “We heard that Halle Berry was shopping for $50,000/month rentals…”
I wonder if she needs a house boy?