Real Estate Seemed Like A Smart Choice
The News Journal reports from Florida. “A few years ago, the oceanfront land that straddled the eastern tip of Oakridge Boulevard was the home of some time-worn motels that didn’t have the big city feel or luster of the new hotels that local leaders felt the primo beachside land deserved, and Daytona Beach needed. Then along came a group of Russian hotel developers, eager to create a 21st century-style dream high on the wow factor. Now those Russian businessmen say they’re ready to start building two massive condo hotel towers, one 29 stories tall and the other 26 stories, if they get the necessary OKs from city, county and state officials in coming months.”
“The $100 million complex could create 500 new hotel rooms, 105 condos, 15,100 square feet of meeting space, 14,000 square feet of retail space and 400 permanent jobs. Another project on the other end of State Road A1A could provide more of the hotel rooms and help attract the conventions some see as key to progress on the blighted beachside. A Canadian investment and development company, Toronto-based Bayshore Capital Inc., plans to build a 1.3 million-square-foot condominium hotel on a 10-acre lot just south of Sun Splash Park that could have 900 units.”
“Bayshore Capital needs to get through several city approval processes to become reality and hopes to break ground next summer and open in 2015. ‘There’s a lot of interest in this area from around the country and foreign investors,’ said County Chair Frank Bruno.”
The Indian Express. “City based global real estate player, Pacifica Companies (PC), today said that it aims to rent out 700 single family homes in US state of Florida within a year, after having won bids for these foreclosed home there. Pacifica purchased a managing interest of 20 per cent for over USD 12 million, after having won bids for the 700 residential property portfolio put up for auction by Fannie Mae.”
“‘We won bids for 700 foreclosed homes which were put for auction by Fannie Mae, amongst 50 bidders in fray. Within a year, these 700 single family homes shall be put on rentals. We get 20 percent upfront management fee on gross rental income collected. The minimum hold period is for three years, and thereafter a call shall be taken on exit,’ Pacifica’s Managing Director Rocky Israni, told reporters.”
“The company holds around 4,500 residential units spread across 40 states, with the majority in California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona and Washington.”
The Sun Sentinel. “A group of foreign businessmen is spending upward of $150 million to scoop up hundreds of foreclosed homes across South Florida at bargain prices. Vulcan Investment Partners, led by a group of Mexican businessmen, says it plans to buy 1,200 foreclosed homes. Almost half will be split between Broward and Palm Beach counties, with the remainder in Miami-Dade County, said Iñaki Negrete, chief executive of Vulcan.”
“Vulcan says it will pay roughly $75,000 for homes once valued at $200,000 or more and plans to renovate and rent most of them for $1,500 a month for several years before selling. Negrete said Monday the Miami-based firm is helping to boost the South Florida housing market by reducing the number of foreclosures and expanding the region’s booming rental market. ‘People have problems getting a new mortgage,’ Negrete said. ‘Now they can take some time to fix their credit scores while they rent.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “When you mix novice landlords with growing numbers of renters, the results are sometimes not pretty — especially in a housing market where eviction notices continue to land on foreclosed rental properties with some frequency. Renters complain about getting hit with notices despite having paid rent to the landlord. Landlords complain that tenants seem more prone to skipping out on rent and abusing property. And neither party seems certain of what exactly they should do once a property enters foreclosure.”
“A house that landlord Greg May has been renting out in southwest Orlando is now in foreclosure, and even though he says he still holds title to the property, sheriff’s deputies will not let him enter the house. So he can’t retrieve his refrigerator, and the tenant who resides there is unwilling to surrender the appliance.”
“‘I just want my refrigerator back,’ May said. ‘I just don’t like being told by a tenant, who is in arrears, that I can’t have my refrigerator when he’s sitting there in the house living rent-free. … I have keys to the house, but if I attempted to go inside, he would have me arrested.’”
“Tom Long, president of the Central Florida Landlords Association, said a new wave of tenants are skilled at taking advantage of property managers as the region’s real estate market struggles to recover. ‘In the last few months, there seems to be a new influence. … There seem to be more ‘professional tenants,’ said Long. ‘They go from place to place, they know how long it takes to get an eviction, and they know the unwary landlord who may be new to the business.’”
“These opportunistic renters come with cash in hand, he said, but quickly stop paying their rent. ‘Three months later, they bring six family members, three dogs and a parrot,’ Long added. ‘Oh, and there’s the car leaking oil on the front yard.’”
“Carol Rumley, an Orlando-based community association manager, estimates that about 20 percent of all tenants create problems for a landlord in terms of property damage, late payments or lease violations. While that remains a constant, Rumley said, those tenants are now often dealing with a new crop of investor-owners who try to manage their rental properties themselves. ‘This is the gist of the problem, as I see it, is that investors are sometimes too cheap to give 10 percent to a property-management company to ‘manage’ the property,’ Rumley said.”
The Tampa Tribune. “When George Triebel’s employer moved his job from Fort Myers to Tampa in 2009, Triebel and his wife, Camille, had to make a life-changing decision. ‘I couldn’t afford two mortgages,’ said Triebel, 32.”
“So, they short-sold their home in Lee County — a decision that dynamited their credit and took them out of the housing market for the foreseeable future. Today, they’re among the thousands of Tampa residents living in rented housing. Renters now outnumber homeowners in Tampa, according to recently released Census Bureau research.”
“In Seminole Heights, the Triebels have settled into their rented home on a quiet street. Sunflowers tower over the front walkway. A Moroccan-style lantern hangs on the front porch. Downtown is an easy bike ride away. It’s an old house that could use some work, but they’re unwilling to put their own money into someone else’s investment. Financially, the family is hunkered down, waiting for the day they’ll be able to buy another home to call their own.”
“Meanwhile, the couple are raising their baby daughter in someone else’s house. ‘Having a family in a rental house that she’s not going to be able to grow up in — that’s emotional,’ Triebel said.”
The Herald Tribune. “Sarasota mortgage broker Arthur Seaborne, who recruited investors to join him in a series of boomtime real estate deals, has been indicted on 11 counts of bank fraud. From March 2003 through July 2008, Seaborne bought and resold houses at higher prices to investors and filled out mortgage applications with false information so that investors could get loans, an indictment filed in Tampa’s U.S. District Court says.”
“Seaborne’s management company later rented out the houses. But the indictment says that he failed to use the proceeds ‘to pay all the expenses associated with the residential properties’ as promised. Seaborne has pleaded ‘not guilty’ to the charges. Seaborne is one of the real estate professionals highlighted in the Herald-Tribune’s flipping fraud series published in July 2009. The newspaper revealed that Seaborne bought and sold more than 41 new homes worth $11.6 million in Sarasota and Manatee counties from 2006 to 2007, and made more than $1 million in profits along the way. He recruited more than 30 investors into the property-sharing venture.”
“In summer 2006, when prices already were declining, Seaborne started buying dozens of new houses in Ellenton and Venice. He marked up the price by $8,000 to $75,000 and, within a few months, sold them to people who came to his real estate seminars.”
“Interviewed by the Herald-Tribune in 2009, Seaborne said every real estate deal that he struck was legitimate, backed by bank appraisals and paid for by willing investors. He said his financial troubles came from the unforeseen downturn in the real estate market that forced him to stop paying his investors’ mortgages. ‘We certainly would not have done some of the buying we did if we knew we’d be where we are today,’ Seaborne said.”
“One of his alleged victims, Jessica Leis, told the Herald-Tribune in 2009 that she met Seaborne by attending one of his seminars. The widow of a police officer who died from injuries sustained during a 1990 rescue, Leis had a nest egg to invest. Real estate seemed like a smart choice.”
“Leis bought her first house with Seaborne on a quarter-mile stretch of North Manatee suburbia where Seaborne bought at least 15 houses that he planned to sell to investors. Within a year, she bought two more houses from Seaborne. Not long after she closed on the last one, in August 2007, things started to go wrong. Leis’ deal with Seaborne required her to buy a house from him for a set price — as much as 30 percent more than Seaborne paid a few months before. Seaborne retained part-interest in the house. In return, he agreed to find renters and to pay most of the monthly mortgage.”
“But in late 2007, Seaborne stopped paying his bills, Leis said. She and seven other investors told the Herald-Tribune that Seaborne put them in negative amortization loans without telling them. ‘He kept saying ‘no money down’ and I kept thinking I can’t lose,’ Leis told the Herald-Tribune.”
“Vulcan says it will pay roughly $75,000 for homes once valued at $200,000 or more and plans to renovate and rent most of them for $1,500 a month for several years before selling.”
Bit of a real world problem here. The homes that Live Free and Prosper will buy for $75,000 that once sold for $200,000 or more were valued at $50-$60k before this mess started. The real world problem is that these homes, duplexes, town houses and appartments that they will rent for $1,500 a month used to rent for $500-$600 a month.
I was talking to a 30 something secretary last week who told me her take home pay was $2k a month and her rent for a 2/2 appartment was $1,300. That appartment would have been available @ $600 a month all day long pre-bubble. Congrats Banksters, Beats, mortgage brokers , Liars, Govt. programs, Fed Chef, etc. (I meant to say Chef) you have done a fine job screwing a lot of people while saving yourselves.
“This sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before”
Beavis and Butthead
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaup!
Read it folks. It’s a dose of reality.
‘a real world problem here’
There’s more than one. We read these days, ‘Huge Hedge Fund buying thousands of foreclosed houses!’ It could say, thousands more houses coming on the market. For rent or sale, it doesn’t matter.
‘Vulcan says it will pay roughly $75,000 for homes once valued at $200,000 or more and plans to renovate and rent most of them for $1,500 a month for several years before selling’
This is a nice story and I’m sure the Mexicans bought it. But how much to renovate each one? Five thousand? One hundred thousand? Truth is, they have no idea until they get down to it.
And $1500/month sounds kinda high. Rents are up there in Flagstaff, but $1500 would get you a $3-400,000 house.
Oh and what about the exit?
‘rent most of them for several years before selling’
‘The minimum hold period is for three years, and thereafter a call shall be taken on exit’
I mean, Jeebus, this little stampede is made up of Underwear Gnomes:
‘The Gnomes, claiming to be business experts, explain their business plan:
1. Collect Underpants
2. ?
3. Profit
Am I the only one flabbergasted that Russians are building condo-tels in Dayton?
“Am I the only one flabbergasted that Russians are building condo-tels in Dayton?”
No you are not the only one. I put this in the Bits today.
Posted: 4:52 p.m. Tuesday, Oct. 9, 2012
Canadian company buys 18 acres west of Lake Worth; land approved for 169 homes
By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
A plan to resurrect a housing development ditched during the real estate crash could be in the works on 18-acres west of Palm Beach State College in unincorporated Lake Worth.
The property on South Congress Avenue and Melaleuca Lane was bought last month by the Canadian-based Morguard company for $2.07 million. It had been repossessed by Florida Community Bank after a $4.2 million February foreclosure judgment against previous owner Coral Lakes Apartments, LLC.
The land was approved by the county for 169 townhouses in 2007, but Realtor Reese Stigliano, who represented a subsidiary of Morguard in the land purchase, said he’s not sure what the company plans for the vacant property. No one from Morguard returned calls for comment Tuesday.
“Their product is more apartment rentals so they may go back and try to rezone it,” said Stigliano, vice president of Fort Lauderdale-based Brenner Real Estate Group. “Right now there are a lot of people buying apartment land.”
“But how much to renovate each one? Five thousand? One hundred thousand? Truth is, they have no idea until they get down to it.”
I passed on a lot of “Bargains” in the last 3 years that would have cost $30-$50k to renovate. But that didn`t stop the person showing the house from using the word “Bargain”.
I’m more flabbergasted that Daytona Beach’s leaders might allow the construction of buildings that tall, because at certain times of day the structures will throw the public beach into shade, thereby degrading the very reason Daytona has appeal in the first place. I doubt the Russians have spent much time in Daytona or even have visited, but of course that sort of thing has ceased to matter. And maybe these guys are totally on the level, but when I hear the phrase “Russian hotel developers” I immediately think of money laundering. How come they’re not building a hotel on the Black Sea coast?
I imagine that the “time worn” motels deemed unacceptable would be the small family-owned places that gave the area some semblance of charm.
There is no city in Florida that needs 14,000 more square feet of retail space.
so why do these developers build so much? do they have any idea ahead of time who is going to lease out the CRE? just build and they will come? we’ve got “mixed use” RE and CRE all over the place here going begging.
There very much is a Field of Dreams mentality to all of this. Just show up with a grandiose idea depicted in a sufficiently eye-catching presentation (generally, one depicting people living and shopping in a shiny futuristic setting) and you’re golden. We have white elephants all over the state as a result. I wish we would focus on the little things — that’s one reason I like how Tampa’s RiverWalk is turning out. Just a simple continuous path along the Hillsborough River, with some open, green space and museums nearby. I liked when the city turned the old unused Gandy Bridge span into the Friendship Trail, too, but there’s no money to fix it now that it’s decaying.
Right when the bubble was taking off, I sat in the gallery during a public meeting of elected leaders. They were being asked to sign off on various projects, much like will happen in Daytona. I don’t recall anyone voicing any concern about anything. There was so much unquestioning optimism you would have thought that everyone was drugged.
We badly want that time to return.
“There very much is a Field of Dreams mentality to all of this. Just show up with a grandiose idea depicted in a sufficiently eye-catching presentation (generally, one depicting people living and shopping in a shiny futuristic setting) and you’re golden.”
There are lots of people with money who are not earning anything, and they’re eager to invest in something with the promise of better returns. The hucksters know this, and they’re ready to take scalps.
I’m flabbergasted that anyone is building “condo-tels” anywhere.
The rental market had a brief return to normal in 2007-2008. I’m seeing 1/1 downtown rentals for $800 or suburban rentals for $600 which is down from the highs but still higher than just a few years ago.
2/2 townhouses are running $900+
I believe these people are being misled as far as what they can actually rent these for.
i live in palm beach county and now i understand why the house next door(reo, owned by fannie mae) is listed at $88/sf when recent sold comps are averaging $54/sf. the house needs at least 15k in repairs too. my hunch was that the realtor is in cahoots with investor(s) to sell these cheap small houses (810 sf) to these investors (friends). the house is still in the “first look” window, but what difference does that make if they overprice it to begin with. i made a reasonable offer, but the realtor didn’t even do a complete contract(each page wasn’t initialed). isn’t there a “present all offers” rule for realtors? he says lets wait and see if they accept it first. he says fannie mae won’t even consider offers below 85% of asking price. the realtor claims that they got 3 bpo’s and that the broker’s wouldn’t risk not being asked to do bpo’s again by fannie mae by overpricing the house. the corruption just never ends. i’m thinking of reporting this broker to frec and fannie mae. that should show them! riiiight….
‘the realtor is in cahoots with investor’
Happens all the time.
‘he says fannie mae won’t even consider offers below 85% of asking price’
That’s probably right. You can find out what these ratios are by tracking listing prices and then what they sell for. There are definitely formulas, and they vary. That way you’ll waste less of your time by waiting until one get’s into your range and count on offering 75+/-% of asking. Haggle a couple thousand and that’s that. Estimating the repairs is critical. If you go under contract and find out something major is busted, it’s difficult to get them to fix it or budge on price. You can really waste a lot of time on this process, so being picky and choosing your fights helps a lot.
What happens is they price it high to keep retail buyers away, and then cut the asking when the investor period begins. Sometimes HUD will shun investors each time there’s a price cut. (HUD has a fairer system, generally).
3 BPO’s is a lot. I don’t know if I believe that.
Yeah, that not presenting offers thing should cause agents to be run out of business. I would encourage you to make a stink about it. But overall, you should let the knife catchers spend their money and refuse to pay more than you think it’s worth, IMO. Don’t bid against knife catchers.
Thanks, Ben. Really do appreciate your response. Thought maybe I’d have a better chance of getting the house since I called listing agent directly, made cash offer with no changes to their fannie mae contract and agreed to owner occupy the home. But I’m pretty sure someone will pay 15-20k more than I’m willing to pay, based on the auction bids (a couple of weeks ago). It’s kinda crazy, but we didn’t want someone to “steal” the house and rent it for nothing, putting crappy tenants next door. So when the “knife catcher” pays too much, I’ll be relieved to not have that project. Waiting to hear back from the realtor for fannie’s response to our offer.
“Leis had a nest egg to invest. Real estate seemed like a smart choice.”
SFR’s are a loss, always unless you’re building them and have a buyer for it. Paying retail and attempting to sell at retail plus __% will always result in a loss.
‘In the last few months, there seems to be a new influence. … There seem to be more ‘professional tenants,’ said Long. ‘They go from place to place, they know how long it takes to get an eviction, and they know the unwary landlord who may be new to the business.’” ??
Reminds me of when Eddie posted that he was buying a foreclosure condo to rent out…I posted that these newly minted landlords are ducks on a pond for tenants the likes of the above….One of these well informed tenants can only be summed up one way…The tenant from Hell….They won’t stop at just not pay/not leaving either…They want you to commit some illegal act…Then, you get the tripple play….The;
Tenant from hell, with the Plaintiff Lawyer from hell with the DA from hell.
You can’t possibly get enough of a return on your investment renting out a condo to make it worth dealing with professional renters.
Foreclosure home investing is the new black!
“‘I just want my refrigerator back,’ May said. ‘I just don’t like being told by a tenant, who is in arrears, that I can’t have my refrigerator when he’s sitting there in the house living rent-free. … I have keys to the house, but if I attempted to go inside, he would have me arrested.’”
Sounds like two people who deserve to work with each other, to me. Not surprising that the legal system has to be involved in every interaction between them.
‘I just want my refrigerator back’
Yeah, and I bet the people who loaned him money to buy that house want it back too.
Scammers scamming scammers scamming scammers….
Just pass the popcorn.
Pacific Heights….
“Pacific Heights….”
+1 LOL!
I posted this data a while back, but Florida has about 2 million more housing units than jobs, a very high vacancy rate, and a huge amount of homes clogging the foreclosure pipeline.
The “buy to rent” strategy doesn’t pass the basic supply/demand equation test for me in Florida regardless of what the spreadsheets say. With that much vacancy, landlords will be chasing their tails as they deal with high turnover…tenants will forever be on the lookout for a better deal, and with high vacancy, they will be able to get it.
RW, those spreadsheets will only reflect the self-serving biases of the guys who write their formulae. That will never change. What’s changed is the sheer number of such spreadsheets being written for these purposes.
“Meanwhile, the couple are raising their baby daughter in someone else’s house. ‘Having a family in a rental house that she’s not going to be able to grow up in — that’s emotional,’ Triebel said.”
_________________________/
I was raised largely in rented apartments. Miraculously, I survived without emotional damage.
Yeah, why not just stay in Ft Myers and raise the child in a house he/she could grow up in? You could pay back what you owed too.
My parent moved us around and we rented half the time. It messed me up but it wouldn’t be so bad if we had just stayed in the same town. But oh no, they got to get away from the ex and “start over” somewhere completely different.
My son seems to place a high value on being able to stay at the same school with the same friends, but doesn’t seem to care where we sleep and put our stuff at all.
When we moved, we ended up in one of two very good school districts in town for elementary school, but actually the one that my daughter’s friends were NOT attending (they were in the other school).
Frankly, we are quite pleased this is the case…she’ll get to meet some new friends (and already has), and we still spend time with the old guard without it being a distraction at school.
Exactly.
My mother’s family rented. And she doesn’t seem to be scarred by the experience.
My father was in the Air Force so I spent my formative years moving around and living in base housing and I was NOT damaged by it. I have rented all of my adult years and see no reason to play the low interest reindeer games that my friends always suggest that I take part in…no thank you!
spent my formative years moving around and living in base housing
My brother was in the Army for many years. I think it’s different moving from base to base in one of the Armed Services than it is in moving from town to town in the civilian world.
The Armed Forces have a very welcoming culture to newcomers because virtually everyone is moving on a regular basis. Since everyone is so transient, they waste no time making newcomers feel welcome.
After my brother retired from the Army his family’s moves were a bit more difficult as the civilian world did not offer the instant welcome that the Army bases offered.
A co-worker who rents came home to a foreclosure notice on the front door; never saw his security deposit. Poof!
“Within a year, these 700 single family homes shall be put on rentals. We get 20 percent upfront management fee on gross rental income collected. The minimum hold period is for three years, and thereafter a call shall be taken on exit,’ Pacifica’s Managing Director Rocky Israni, told reporters.”
This isn’t going to end well. These deals are front-loaded. Three years means they will run into expenses they didn’t want to pay. Real property management is expensive. Payoff times are over 10 years. These mother-effers want it back in 3. They will defer maintenance, and their resulting housing stock will end up assessed LOWER due to that continued decay.
About the only good thing about this is that inhabitants will stop the most severe forms of decay (i.e. stripping by scrappers).