The Housing Bubble

This jackwagon thinks that $525k houses are affordable.

They aren’t now, weren’t before and never will be.

The houses were never allowed to find their real price supports due to government intervention and insanely low rates.

Yup. But they will. The Moneychangers are the proverbial dutch boys with a finger plugging the hole in the dyke.

Jingle Male is a knifecatcher.

In ways he can’t fathom. But he will.

Real investors will pick up his properties on the courthouse steps for pennies on the dollar in the next few years.

Because they know and understand the value of a dollar. Most on this blog do not.

Once he finds his $1.5M loans are backed by $750k in assets, he’ll bail on all of them.

The reality is the assets are likely worth less than $750k. And sadly our blog knife catcher hasn’t the slightest understanding of his current losses that are growing by the day.

RAL you’re so cute.

JM I’m glad you didn’t try to expand the RE empire. Even if it’s been going good so far, IMO any price appreciation is too fragile to depend on.

How large are your losses so far? $100k? 150k?

this homeownership thing is a little tiring

But you have to be in metro DeeCee, cus it’s “where the jobs are”.
And you had to buy, cus DeeCee bubble rents only go up.
But at least you can paint the walls any color you want, right?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Bill-in-whereever is right.

Strangely enough, in retrospect, Bill_in____ has been quite accurate.

Bill the Nomad says he’s going to buy a house in AZ if/when Obama wins.

What’s the problem with buying a house at $30/square foot?

So it’s time to buy in AZ?

Are prices <$30/sq?

Still doing ok here, but this homeownership thing is a little tiring

Most of the tiring stuff we’ve been doing is stuff that is just related to moving. Unpacking, organizing, rearranging, putting up shelves, etc.

We did a ton of stuff in our rental and made it way more livable than it was, but our ex landlord (who also happens to be a bitter divorce lawyer who is losing her marbles) wants to take us to court for things that my housing lawyer pal says are simple “wear and tear” items (like painting the interior walls that hadn’t been painted in 9 years and a broken bathroom floor tile on the 1970’s bathroom.

Never mind that we’ve paid her over 250K in rent and she can rent it for almost 1K more per month given the crazy rental increases in San Francisco.

I am glad to be done with landlords, and for me, the extra work required from being a home owner are worth the peace of mind. 27 years of being a renter was enough for me.

Are prices <$30/sq?

You said they were. Or perhaps that they will be after an Obama victory, which is in a week or so.

I don’t think they’re below $30/sq in Scottsdale, which I think was where he was talking about.

“You said they were.”

You’ll have to substantiate that one. Post it.

You’ll have to substantiate that one. Post it.

I bet you’re driving your realtor nuts. Probably on your third or fourth one by now?

“You said they were.”

SUBSTANTIATE IT.

“What’s the problem with buying a house at $30/square foot?”

The implication is that what Bill is doing is not a problem, because he’s buying at $30/sq ft. Where you got that number, I do not know. Probably pulled it out of your a$$, like usual.

Bill isn’t right to buy at $30/sq ft?

You sound confused again.

Your realtor called, time to go low-ball some upstate McMansions.

“You said they were.”

You lied…. again.

Case closed.

Case closed.

Perhaps if you had a legitimate case to make, you wouldn’t have to hide behind your juvenile word games.

Anyway, shouldn’t you be out house-hunting?

Isn’t $30/sq ft not far off from what Darrell in Phoenix paid for the condo for his kids? It was $40K for a a townhome, likely 1000-1200 feet.

You lied. Again.

Why lie Alpha?

What I see in phoenix metro are homes in good suburban neighborhoods closer to city centers still in short supply. They bottomed around 100/sf in 2011 (bottomed meaning the most recent) and have rebounded to 125/sf and up, have seen some go recently for 150+/sf after being bid up by multiple offers.

The far out suburban areas have a bit more inventory and have also rebounded off the lows of 2011 but I would say most are still going for <100/sf.

It will be interesting to see what happens with inventory going into this next spring “selling season”. My feeling is that things will settle into a groove for a while and the $/sf will level off and find some sort of equilibrium now that the low interest rates have been burned in and the cash investor appetite is beginning to wane.

“What’s the problem with buying a house at $30/square foot?”

The neighbors on either side of you, behind you, across the street, etc., are the problem at $30/sqft. Really!

It’s okay when Housing Deflations/Housing Analyst avoids answering questions, but God forbid anyone else employ the same evasiveness.

Overnight the estimates for rainfall in the DC area went from 3 to 7 inches to 5 to 10 inches.

Polly, the latest update, storm still moving to the northwest but a little slower at 18 miles an hour. The fact that the storm might arrive later can be good news if it hits between the high tides but as the rain estimates show the slower a storm moves the more rain it can dump on an area.

Different Bill in ____ here. Polly, you are lucky that your electric service is so reliable. I have a friend in Silver Spring, north of the Beltway, who loses power several times a year. Was once out of power for a week. He has a portable generator to keep the fridge cold and to run his furnace (but not the A/C). He says quite a few of his neighbors now have natgas powered whole-house generators.

My electric service is reliable because it is underground. Which, of course, is why there is no such thing as a place where you can’t find a useful reason to dig a hole and fill it in (after putting the electric lines in the hole), Keynes statement notwithstanding.

Metro spokesperson said the main reason they closed the subway was because they didn’t know when and where the power would go out and if they lost power with trains between stations they would be using up emergency services people to evacuate customers, not to handle real emergencies.

However, the electrical service is so bad in the DC area because they use mature trees to disguise the fairly ugly appearance of power/telephone/whatever poles. They have done a slightly better job of trimming the branches recently, but it doesn’t help that much. Trees and utility poles don’t mix. You want juice? Learn to live with the eye sores or pay to put it below ground. County and state executives have warned the power company that they are to spend like water to get the power back when it goes out, but if the towns would let them take down the trees and put proper guide wires on the poles (also expensive) it wouldn’t be such a big deal.

As of now, the rain isn’t even all that bad.

Storm has sped up to 28 miles an hour in the latest update (2 P.M.) and interestingly is still moving northwest, NWS had it moving virtually west by now in the forecasts. Does not sound good for NYC if it hits even further north than they were predicting.

3 P.M. update had it still traveling at 28 miles an hour, and about 160 miles for NYC. It said it was 3 to 5 hours from landfall, I guess the three hours is if it comes ashore way south of NYC.

Keep laughing, coastal elitist bedwetter. We don’t support a wife or kids.

You know nothing of our circumstances and are are talking out of your arsehole.

But keep talking if it makes you feel good. Sigh, LOOSERS.

I’m pretty happy with my quasi- white trash lifestyle in flyover country, thankyouverymuch. It wouldn’t be legal for me to have a wife in flyover country anyway. I had a contract job for a while but it was more like a hobby. Informally adopted kids don’t cost much.

I know you meant to show these things but I think that right now, the board should pull together and support its posters.

Support their safety, perhaps. Support their decision to embrace albatross debt slavery loanownership, never.

“I know you meant to show these things but I think that right now, the board should pull together and support its posters.”

There is never a better time to go after a sitting president’s jugular vein than a moment of crisis. Look how the Republican’s went after Obama during the recent Libyan incident, for instance?

And why not start in on him during the approaching hurricane? Why bother waiting for it to make landfall?

Sorry, Polly, if it was unclear I was being sarcastic in the above post. I don’t feel like adding a smiley, though…

“Support their safety, perhaps. Support their decision to embrace albatross debt slavery loanownership, never.”

LOL.

Should we support your decision to “support” a wife and kids on a quasi-white-trash temporary contractor gig? No offense, but your planning and stability seem pretty suspect as well. Just being honest.

Who are you calling white trash?

So you are saying that you hate if/when people act like democrats after Katrina…?

There is never a better time to go after a sitting president’s jugular vein than a moment of crisis. Look how the Republican’s went after Obama during the recent Libyan incident, for instance?

And why not start in on him during the approaching hurricane? Why bother waiting for it to make landfall?

So you are saying that you hate if/when people act like democrats after Katrina…?

But the key word there is “AFTER” and it wasn’t just Democrats who thought that the response to Katrina was inept.

“Who are you calling white trash?”

Aren’t you married with kids despite only managing some kind of temporary government contractor mcjob? Marriage and kids are, like home ownership, something that are best entered into when someone has a real career.

Do your homework, smithy. The squad is on the record as a non-breeder.

As far as the “mcjob” goes, it’s contracted for the next five years

“Don’t criticize what you can’t understand” — Bob Dylan

“So you are saying that you hate if/when people act like democrats after Katrina…?”

‘Heck of a job Brownie’ — what’s up with rose colored glasses and selective memory? Don’t mind you being a neocon hack, you do bring some good points very occasionally but please don’t insult the people here by railroading facts.

Don’t mind you being a neocon hack, you do bring some good points very occasionally but please don’t insult the people here by railroading facts.

I think 2banana makes some “good points very occasionally” specifically to cover his attempt to railroad his neocon hack points.

Like the Koch Brother’s propaganda slogan:

“A spoon full of sugar helps the Bull S#!T go down”

Rio:

Here is an Alternative view about Katrina:

Bush underestimated how many stupid people would stay behind, then couldn’t get supplies to them quickly because the superdome was a fixed dome and not retractable…so they couldn’t land choppers on the playing field…or anywhere outside ’cause it was flooded..

But the key word there is “AFTER” and it wasn’t just Democrats who thought that the response to Katrina was inept.

“…don’t insult the people here by railroading facts.”

SOP

Like the Koch Brother’s propaganda slogan:

“A spoon full of sugar helps the Bull S#!T go down”

I’ll be that doesn’t sound half bad if Julie Andrews sings it.

Don’t let the buggers grind you down Slim, just keep going with your head up; your family and friends are lucky to have you.

Oh if I win the Eurolottery tonight I’ll send you some. Yes I know it’s not much of a plan but it’s the only one I’ve got.

I know one dude that bad mouths Obama to no end who has not made a mortgage payment in four years.

“Take America Back!”

And give it to the oligarchs.

And give it to the Producers.

Not to those parasites on food stamps and disability with free Obama phones!

Apparently not only in Omaha:

In the 11 swing states, Mitt Romney earns 50% of the vote to Obama’s 46%. Two percent (2%) like another candidate in the race, and another two percent (2%) are undecided.

Romney has now led for 12 straight days with margins of four to six points most of that time.

In 2008, Obama won these states by a combined margin of 53% to 46%, virtually identical to his national margin.

Hmmm, Take America Back or Four More Years?

Tweedledee or Tweedledum?

The Republican ground game is catching up to the democratic ground game in Ohio:

The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Ohio Voters shows Romney with 50% support to President Obama’s 48%. One percent (1%) likes some other candidate, while another one percent (1%) remains undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

America is in the pawn shop. It will take some serious cash to take it back.

47 percent

LOL

Hmmm, Take America Back or Four More Years?

Tweedledee or Tweedledum?

Exactly. No matter who wins:

More good paying jobs will be offshored.
More will join the ranks of the Lucky Duckies.
More will be getting foodstamps.

About the only difference I can foresee is that Romney will probably invade or at least bomb Iran.

About the only difference I can foresee is that Romney will probably invade or at least bomb Iran.

Not a chance. Not because Romney and his neocons supporters don’t want it. It’s because:

1. I ran is not I raq, Libya or Afghanistan. I ran is much more powerful.
2. Nice to have I ran as a boogie man for decades than fighting a protracted loosing war. Neocons mus have known it by now.
3. Can’t afford. I know not that it matters.
4. No appetite for another war. This country, including military is sick of wars outside of few neo-cons.

You’re assuming that neo-cons are logical.

Also, I’m not so sure anyone is “sick” of the wars. While very expensive, the casualties are relatively low and there is no shortage of able bodied youths volunteering to serve. College kids shrug their shoulders, glad that there are enough po’ folks willing to volunteer, thus keeping the draft at bay.

Also, I’m not so sure anyone is “sick” of the wars.

I agree. Many in my circle think we’ve been too soft since 2009 and espouse the “quit apologizing to the Muslims” rhetoric. They’d rain bombs on I-ran tomorrow if they could.

Kids loove socialists ideas right up thru college because it SOUNDS so good.

What kid wouldn’t want “free” health care for all? And free housing for all. And free education for all. And to let in all that want to come to America. And to give money to poor people - as much as they want. Etc. And to make those evil polluting corporation PAY for it all. It all sounds so good.

And then they graduate colleg and try to find a job. And if they do find one they are amazed at all the taxes they pay. And then they they see what their taxes are actually used/wasted for.

And then they may want to start a family and buy a house. And are amazed again at property taxes and the cost of everything. And taxes on top of taxes.

Who know - they may even have an idea to start a business. And are crushed by the regulations at every level.

Just about then they start to understand they have been lied to by democrats and “bigger government is always better” fools they had as teachers…

Dogs!? I thought he meant hot dogs!

And then they graduate colleg and try to find a job. And if they do find one they are amazed at all the taxes they pay.

Kids would love to find a job today and pay taxes. But they can’t because the right-wing, “free-market” globalists, led by the Repubs have restructured our America to benefit only the 1%.

Now those poor college kids can’t find jobs good enough to even pay their taxes.

Who know - they may even have an idea to start a business.

But they can’t because they don’t have health-insurance.

What kid wouldn’t want “free” health care for all?

There is no such thing as free health-care. Countries with universal health-care pay for their health-care out of tax dollars received. And it ends up costing less per person and less of their GDP than the American system. And they get better results.

And to give money to poor people - as much as they want

Now you’re just starting to sound dumb again.

And then they graduate colleg

Where did you go to colleg?

But they can’t because they don’t have health-insurance.

My flyover state U offered insurance to students. I’m sure we were not unique.

My flyover state U offered insurance to students.

The context was starting one’s own business.

But they can’t because they don’t have health-insurance.

Plus they don’t have a rich dad to borrow the start up capital from.

particularly disturbing

Not as disturbing as President Dogmeat.

Restore Our Future!

To be fair, vast majority of the people I know are doing much better than average. I’d rather see a smaller government and sensible reorganizing of priorities, but Romney isn’t going to provide that. Romney would spend more money on different pet programs. The two party system is a joke, but rather easy to profit off.

rather easy to profit off

That’s our plan for the next five years, LOLZ!

To be fair, vast majority of the people I know are doing much better than average.

You should get out more.

Romney has no chance in Maryland anyway, but I think the relatively dearth of educated younger white voters for a Republican candidate portends badly for them.

As you get farther from the coasts you’ll find that the mix is much more even among educated younger white voters.

As you get farther from the coasts you’ll find that the mix is much more even among educated younger white voters.

But they don’t count. You have to be urban and in the coasts.

Joe, you think you’ve got yours.

I’m not sure you have yet.

I take it they hold no grudge over the roof incident?

Except the weiner dogs who particularly hate Romney. Not sure why?

Envy?

Which side? -

Are you saying you don’t think the end of the 19th century was best time to be alive?!

Btw, those are just a couple of examples of MANY other apartments projects being built or recently completed in the area

That’s exactly what it seems like… Construction of ‘luxury’ apartments in and around downtown are all over the place!

Same thing here in Tucson. It’s high rise luxury living for…

…University of Arizona students!!!

Only problem is, there are only so many kids with the wherewithal to afford these places. And the existing luxury complexes already compete fiercely for their business.

Little Toronto.

“Only problem is, there are only so many kids with the wherewithal to afford these places. ”

You’d think that whoever bankrolls these buildings would have done their homework, but apparently they didn’t.

It reminds me of the now bankrupt shopping/lifestyle center I’ve mentioned here. I actually saw the slides (at biz school) the developer presented to investors. The dirt bag exaggerated the local median HH income by about 20K. FWIW, there was a part 2 planned for the mall, and it never got off the ground.

Yo Bubs, we got lucky in discovering an architectural oddity of a building shaped like an L, with a top floor apartment with no shared neighbor walls, our kitchen backs up against the elevator. And no big rent hikes, this isn’t a hipster neighborhood full of pretty young things. Renting is better!

Yo Bubs the trick is to use tall Metro shelving, drawers under the bed and take a day like today and turn up the music and clean clean clean

We already have a garbage bag full of crap to toss out….I dont know how old the 14 fortune cookies are but i aint opening them.

“I dont know how old the 14 fortune cookies are but i aint opening them.”

I always like to read the fortune, but I usually don’t eat the cookie. They are always so positive and upbeat … and generic.

“There are big things in your future”

“You will see water, cross water or pass water in the next 24 hours.”

Perhaps the most outstanding, non-committal one I’ve ever received, I received a few days ago:

“You will have an opportunity.”

I’d love to meet the slacker who came up with that one!

My favorite was, “You will be fortunate in all things.”

I taped it up next to something I tore out of the college newspaper (possibly the April Fools edition):

End of the World (with symposium to follow)

People in Washington and New York expect people elsewhere to care about them. My question is, why?

1. People in media like to talk about themselves the most.
2. Large number of economic migrants from other parts of the country.

“People in Washington and New York expect people elsewhere to care about them”

Ha-ha, yes!

“Comment by polly
2012-10-29 04:32:15
Heavy rain so far. News says the wind doesn’t arrive until late afternoon/evening, but we can expect gusts up to 70 miles an hour when it gets here. If they are right, if we get that sort of wind once the ground has been soaked for almost 24 hours, this is going to be bad.

The electric companies have already stated that they will be waiting until the weather clears before starting the repair process, though I’m not sure if that only refers to the wind or also includes waiting for the rain to end.

Supreme Court is hearing arguments. The rest of us have been ordered to stay home. If you stop hearing from me completely, please know that I am fine. The most likely scenario is that Comcast lost power and I am living off my DVR. I could lose power, and that would be annoying, but not unlivable.”

I care this time. Usually I wouldn’t give a flyin’ f.

I am flying out of country from Dulles on Sunday. Hope the $hit clears by then.

It’s not a “ha-ha, yes” moment, palmetto.

I’m quite serious.

The same people who:

1. Harbor political and fiscal criminals (by not thowing them in jail),

2. Who support NDAA,

3. Who support forcing Americans to purchase specific products (Obamacare) lest be fined,

4. Strive to promote and expand a class-based society,

5. Who conduct business in a way that has resulted in a $4,000 drop in income per household,

6. Who send troops on pointless missions, only to be killed, sometimes due to lack of support,

7. Who live within a number of the wealthiest counties in the entire country,

And the list goes on and on.

Now they want my sympathy? No.

I’ll reserve my time, money and sympathy for the people of this country whose livelihoods don’t depend on dictating to others how to live their lives.

This includes the elitist-proclaimed low-lifes that live in wastelands between Harrisburg, Tampa, Phoenix and Boise.

Ross I didn’t know you were in the DC area…

I’m 100% with you. I didn’t buy solar panel to save the planet. I did it to lock in my energy supply for 25 years. Check out what our new peak demand electric rates will be next year!

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2012-10-24/lawmakers-plan-now-avoid-shortages

“raising the maximum price a generator can charge is needed to make sure there is enough electricity available during peak periods. The wholesale price is $4,500 a megawatt hour, and that price could go up to $9,000.

The solution to the problems created by humanoids is not to create more humanoids.

Tell that to Romney et al.

A World of Harm for Women

If Mitt Romney and his vice-presidential running mate, Representative Paul Ryan, were to win next month’s election, the harm to women’s reproductive rights would extend far beyond the borders of the United States.

In this country, they would support the recriminalization of abortion with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and they would limit access to contraception and other services. But they have also promised to promote policies abroad that would affect millions of women in the world’s poorest countries, where lack of access to contraception, prenatal care and competent help at childbirth often results in serious illness and thousands of deaths yearly. And the wreckage would begin on Day 1 of a Romney administration.

Mr. Romney has pledged that, on his first day in the White House, he would reinstate the “global gag rule,” the odious restriction that has been used to deny federal money for family-planning work abroad to any organization that provided information, advice, referrals or services for legal abortion or supported the legalization of abortion, even using its own money.

Merely talking about abortion could cost groups not only federal money, but also useful technical support and American-donated supplies of contraceptives, including condoms for distribution in the communities they serve.

Mr. Romney also vows to renew another of George W. Bush’s shameful policies (which was ended by President Obama), which blocked the United States from contributing to the United Nations Population Fund. That fund supports programs in some 150 countries to improve poor women’s reproductive health, reduce infant mortality, end the sexual trafficking of women and prevent the spread of H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS. Like Mr. Bush, Mr. Romney has embraced the bogus charge that the Population Fund supports coerced abortions in China, ignoring a State Department investigation that found no evidence for that claim. In fact, the fund has helped promote a voluntary approach to family planning.

The annual federal contribution to the fund is now down to $35 million, compared with $55 million in fiscal years 2010 and 2011; overall support for international family planning and reproductive health programs stands at $610 million — far short of the need. Even so, this amount of money pays for contraceptive services and supplies that reach more than 31 million women and couples, averting 9.4 million unintended pregnancies, 4 million abortions (three-quarters of them unsafe) and 22,000 maternal deaths annually, according to the Guttmacher Institute.

Liberals are funny. Whenever Uncle Sugar doesn’t pay for something or may take away some free government cheese they howl like stuck pigs and scream that the government is going to ban it.

How about paying for your own birth control?

How about paying for your own abortions?

The humanity of it all…

We passed the point of no return a long time ago wrt population control. Might bend the curve a bit if we can get a good ol’ fashion world wide pandemic going but even that won’t change the outcome, the numbers just keep growing. This thing just has to run it’s course and we have to adapt. Too damn many humanoids indeed.

“Tell that to Romney et al.”

Here’s a fun quiz to take:

Richard Mourdock or Abu Hamza?
Spot the difference between the Christian social conservatives and the Islamic fundamentalists.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/10/richard_mourdock_rape_scandal_spot_the_difference_between_the_christian.html

Mr. Romney has pledged that, on his first day in the White House, he would reinstate the “global gag rule,”

On reporting legitimate rape?

How about paying for your own birth control?
How about paying for your own abortions?

And how well has that worked out?

The link between poverty and lack of family planning is well-documented.

Mourdock sought to explain his abortion stance by saying that “even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that is something that God intended to happen.

Yeah, and homosexuality is a choice.

These guys are making it up as they go along.

Ohhh I’m terrified of this horrible, horrible man!

How about paying for your own birth control?

When was the narrative ever about not paying for your own birth control?

Sorry. Stated more cleanly…

When was the narrative ever about having OTHERS pay for your birth control?

they would support the recriminalization of abortion with the overturning of Roe v. Wade

Wouldn’t overturning Roe v. Wade simply leave the legality up to the states? Seems to me that nothing would change in the blue states. And out in “Honey Boo Boo” country, it doesn’t look like they’re taking good advantage of legal abortion anyway.

I’d rather pay for the birth control than the prison cell. Adoption does not keep up with all the unwanted kids. If you’re a hard on crime conservative, how can you NOT love ‘locking up’ all those criminals while they’re still just potiential criminals? For that matter, hard on crime people should be on board for public education.

And out in “Honey Boo Boo” country, it doesn’t look like they’re taking good advantage of legal abortion anyway.

Ouch!

SF that’s due to two reasons…the court bends over backwards to keep a child with bio parents no matter how bad they are….

#2 black kids are hard to adopt because black women don’t want anyone else’s kids….change that attitude and we can get so many kids out of institutional care and into real loving homes..

—– Adoption does not keep up with all the unwanted kids

“How about paying for your own birth control?”

Hormone pills are used for more than birth control. They are used to treat conditions like endometriosis. Why should coverage be denied for medically necessary prescriptions?

Some birth control options are more expensive than others. IUDs and implants are more reliable than pills that can be forgotten. The costs even out long term, but poor women can’t afford to take advantage of them if they have to pay up front. Making these options available reduces abortions.

http://news.yahoo.com/study-free-birth-control-leads-fewer-abortions-210623724.html

I haven’t seen any studies, but I would expect there would also be fewer children in foster care and put up for adoption if birth control were free for any woman that wants it.

Making birth control universally available would reduce the need for Medicaid, WIC, food stamps, Section 8 housing and all of the other social programs that conservatives hate to pay for. I don’t understand the opposition to it by conservatives.

How could courts keeping kids with their parents, thus REDUCING the number of kids who need adopting, cause there to be not enough people wanting to adopt all the unwanted kids?

My family has both abortions, adoptions, and copious birth control in its history, and I KNOW that birth control is far superior to the other two options, and when you get down to the abortion/adoption, if you’re not the potential mother, you should let her have her decision. It’s hard. I’ve seen the years of second guessing and guilt on BOTH choices. It’s not a simple ‘adoption good, abortion bad’ choice.

People who believe that an abortion is wrong are welcome to not have abortions. But I don’t think their beliefs should take the option of the table for others.

That being said, I think it’s an overreach of government powers to stipulate that churches have to pay for birth-control options in the health plans they want to offer their employees. And to claim that the law makes the insurance companies pay for it, not the churches, is disingenuous at best since the premiums will go up, but the line item won’t be specifically called out.

Sf: there are a million families that can’t have kids because the pluming doesn’t work right…..so families are there…but we just can’t seem to put CHILDREN first in this country.

So people like my landlords daughter has to go overseas to adopt and now they adopted a second ….

Agreed on all points….you notice very few men are against stopping a woman from having an abortion when its theirs.

Whew!!!!!! she want supposed to be a forever GF.

“That being said, I think it’s an overreach of government powers to stipulate that churches have to pay for birth-control options in the health plans they want to offer their employees.”

In some cases, hormones are medical necessary to treat conditions other than pregnancy. Hormone replacement therapy after hysterectomies and treatment for endometriosis are two examples. I think it is reasonable to require all insurance plans to cover these cases.

If churches accept federal monies for the students who attend their universities, research monies for their faculties and foundations, Medicaid/Medicare for their hospital and clinic outreach operations, and tax considerations for their services and facilities, they should be held to the same standards as any other business.

No, it was an act of a plethora of meteorological conditions, just as this one is.

Sorry Rio, I backed up my ethanol stories with facts and articles. Show me that the people harvesting sugar cane in brazil are getting a wage even half of the federal minimum wage in the U.S. Both of us know you cannot. Brazil’s energy independence is based on U.S. technology that allowed it to find oil where no one could before. Ethanol is just a side show, it is like going back in time and using whale oil lamps. If the people in Brazil ever get a decent wage and given their slow growth and socialist policies that may be a long time, it will be more expensive then fossil fuels.

You are just angry because I outed you as trying to make Brazil sound like a paradise while it falls further behind countries like Chile that use capitalism.

By the way, Great Britain had growth last quarter of 1%. It calculates growth on a quarter system and does not use the annual rate. Using their system, the U.S. had a .5% growth rate last quarter. Interesting, the country using austerity policies is growing twice as fast as the country using the “growth” policies.

Ethanol is just a side show, it is like going back in time and using whale oil lamps.

LOL, I must be living in the world’s biggest “side show”. Every car made and sold in Brazil can run on ethanol or any gas/ethanol mixture. I’m not sure about whale oil. And your statement that the Brazil ethanol industry is “based on slave labor” is a lie. It’s actually also stupid.

Sorry Rio, I backed up my ethanol stories with facts and articles.

You back it up with squat. I think you are a political hack and anyone who understands science and math can see through your act. I will continue to point it out.

Brazil has grown much faster than the USA and has surpassed Chile as the economic leader of South America. Brazil is energy independent and have just discovered more oil and Brazil has brought 35 million people out of poverty the past 10 years. Perfect? No way. Progressing? Way.

Show me that the people harvesting sugar cane in brazil are getting a wage even half of the federal minimum wage in the U.S.

Comparing Brazilian harvesting wages with USA wages? Do you own a passport? That statement just illustrates your ignorance of cultures, economies and countries.

“Sugarcane has had an important social contribution to the some of the poorest people in Brazil by providing income usually above the minimum wage, and a formal job with fringe benefits.[86][203] Formal employment in Brazil accounts an average 45% across all sectors, while the sugarcane sector has a share of 72.9% formal jobs in 2007, up from 53.6% in 1992, and in the more developed sugarcane ethanol industry in São Paulo state formal employment reached 93.8% in 2005.[203] “

No connection to the oil companies Rio. I do wonder how you can justify what this June 16, 2008 article in the LA Times points out, Exxon could never get away with this and I don’t think even they would try:

Brazil has a great climate, great land and technology, but a lot of the competitive edge for biofuels is due to worker exploitation — from slave work to underpayment,” said Leonardo Sakamoto, a political scientist who runs a nonprofit labor watchdog group in Sao Paulo.

In the last four years, said a lawyer from the Public Ministry, which acts as the Sao Paulo state district attorney, at least 18 cane cutters have died of dehydration, heart attacks or other ailments linked to exhaustion in this region, where the forests long ago gave way to agriculture.

That does not include an unknown number of others who died in accidents, said the lawyer, Luis Henrique Rafael, part of a two-attorney team from the Public Ministry’s office that recently toured the area to investigate abuses of the labor code.

“They died from excess work,” Rafael said. “Even prisoners have a better life. These men’s only form of leisure is cachaca,” he added, referring to the liquor distilled from sugar cane.

In its annual report, Amnesty International last month highlighted the plight of Brazil’s biofuel workers, more than 1,000 of whom were rescued in June 2007 after allegedly being held in slave-like conditions at a plantation owned by a major ethanol producer, Pagrisa, in the Amazonian state of Para.

Although slavery cases tend to grab headlines, advocates say laborers typically face more quotidian abuse — low pay, excessive work hours, inadequate safety gear, an absence of sanitary and health services, and exposure to pesticides and other toxic chemicals.

Brazil’s energy independence is based on U.S. technology that allowed it to find oil where no one could before.

FALSE. You’re showing your bias or ignorance again Albuquerquedan. Do you understand timelines or sequences of events?

Brazil became energy independent in 2005-07. But Brazil’s huge pre-sal oil discoveries mostly occurred in 2007-2009 and have not substantially even added to Brazil’s oil output yet. And 90% of Brazil’s electricity comes from renewables and almost 50% of Brazil’s total energy comes from renewables so again your statement above is FALSE or at best, grossly misleading.

In the last four years,….at least 18 (Brazilian) cane cutters have died…

Really??
“At least 43 people died while working construction in New York in 2006, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, up 87 percent from the year before when 23 people died”. ABC News

Hard work is risky. I almost died of heat-stroke once working a 90 lb jackhammer leveling piles in South Florida in August. According to your freaky logic that means the entire US construction industry is based on “slave or exploited labor”. This illustrates huge flaws in your “logic”.

advocates say (Brazilian sugar cutting) laborers typically face more quotidian abuse — low pay, excessive work hours, inadequate safety gear, an absence of sanitary and health services, and exposure to pesticides and other toxic chemicals.

Sounds like most the entire California central valley or a lot of “American” roofing companies.

All the offshore discoveries used american developed technologies not just the new ones. Electricity with renewable energy yes but primarily with large scale dams like we do in this country. Renewable yes, green no.

“advocates say (Brazilian sugar cutting) laborers typically face more quotidian abuse — low pay, excessive work hours, inadequate safety gear, an absence of sanitary and health services, and exposure to pesticides and other toxic chemicals.’

That just described MOST blue collar jobs in THIS country. I know, I’ve worked ‘em.

Look Albuquerquedan, According to your “logic” and “math”, the ENTIRE American food industry is based on slave labor.

Slave labour that shames America
Migrant workers chained beaten and forced into debt, exposing the human cost of producing cheap food independent dot co dot uk

And look Albuquerquedan, According to your “thinking” the entire American carwash industry is “based on” exploited workers:

UIC study: Car washes in Chicago exploit workers, violate wage and safety laws Sept. 2012 Chicagonow dot com

And with the US prison population the USA has “the most slave labor in the world” and our ENTIRE military industrial complex is “based on” slave labor.

The Pentagon & slave labor in U.S. prisons
The expanding use of prison industries, which pay slave wages, as a way to increase profits for giant military corporations is a frontal attack on the rights of all workers.
2011 World Review

And according to your “logic” Albuquerquedan, the ENTIRE computer-recycling industry is “based on” slave labor.

Americas Slave Labor
Inmates are being forced to work in toxic ‘e-waste’ sweatshops 2007 inthesetimes dot com

Albuquerquedan, a lot of your “logic” is biased BS bunk.

All the offshore discoveries used american developed technologies not just the new ones.

Now I was born in USA oil and coal country, My grandpa was a coal miner, (who fought for the unions) we once had an oil pump jack in our cornfield (that I thought would be a fun teeter totter), I have Geology degree and am not down on America’s vast oil/gas expertise at all. But I guess you don’t know much about today’s Brazil, Petrobras or the North Sea’s influence on offshore exploration and drilling technologies in addition to America’s. Actually it seems to me that Brazil has more oil connections with Europe than it does America.

The foreign oil workers and talent in Brazil outnumber the Americans by about 2 to 1 imo. Heck I meet way more oil people from Scotland alone than I do Americans - way more from British Petroleum, Schlumberger and Royal Dutch Shell than Exxon or Chevron.

Offshore exploration technology does not just come from the USA. It comes from all over the world including Brazil.

The large oil discoveries in Brazil in recent years, particularly in the pre-salt layer, were instrumental in Petrobras further increasing its investments in oil exploration technology in partnership with universities, research centers and suppliers. Petrobras is a mixed capital company that operates in oil exploration and production. The company already has the most advanced technology in the world for deepwater exploration, but production from the Pre-salt layers, at depths in excess of five thousand meters below sea level and with water depths of more than two thousand meters, requires a revolution in the sector.

The company currently has 50 thematic networks with 80 institutions. US$ 1.3 billion per year is invested in these partnerships. Petrobras’ Program for Technological Development of Deepwater Production Systems Deepwater (Procap, acronym in Portuguese) encompasses five areas: new production system concepts, well engineering, logistics, reserves and sustainability. Another important initiative in this area is the Galileo Network, a partnership between Petrobras and 14 Brazilian universities, which has received investments of R$ 117 million. Brasil dot gov dot br

The world’s biggest offshore oil players, from the likes of BP PLC, Royal Dutch Shell PLC and Chevron Corp. to national oil companies with promising offshore waters such as Petrobras in Brazil, India’s ONGC and Mexico’s Pemex – are using the proceeds of high oil prices to spend at a pace.

Petrobras’s new Carcara strike was two kilometres below the surface of the Atlantic in an area causing much excitement. TheGlobeandMail dot com

Stop harshing on his COEXIST already.

I work in DC, it’s pretty great to have the day off. Thanks for asking. No, I don’t think this is going to be that bad. Not many above-ground power lines around here and I live a couple blocks away from water, but a solid 25 feet above the bay’s water level. Now, these people who have to live right on the water in the million dollar houses? Yes, that might be dicey.

it’s pretty great to have the day off.

Hurrication!

Think of it like rich banksters. The banksters pay higher taxes too but the banksters benefit tremendously at the expense of rest of country including flyover states. Last time I checked the banksters were and are concentrated heavily in only few states.

My point was not that there was not some transfer but it was not as simple as blue state and red. Yes, NY has transferred a lot of money to the Federal government but Wall Street has stolen a lot of money from the Red states and their citizens so are they paying with red state money and blue state money. In the end, it is the Red states that are actually producing something and not counting on financial tricks to keep going. Blue states benefitted more from the bubble economies than the Red States for 15 years but now that has come to end will see who keeps the country going without living on borrowing both at the state government level and the personal level.

Wall Street has stolen a lot of money from the Red states and their citizens so are they paying with red state money and blue state money.

That’s a sixer! In baseball terms, home run bases fully loaded.

Also let’s not forget the federal reserve’s hand in making most of us poorer by enriching people in DC and NYC.

Couldn’t I just say that the banks are based in new york and they just got about 4 trillion in zero risk, zero interest money from the FED, and are therefore a net millstone about our collective necks?

Couldn’t I just say that the banks are based in new york

OK, what about all the other blue states that are net contributors? And all those red states that are net receivers?

Go look at the map in the article, it looks just like a red state/blue state map. With a handful of exceptions, the net contributors are democratic-leaning states and the net receivers are republican-leaning states.

I would like to see updated numbers. The income gap between the states has been narrowing a lot since 1990. Moreover, it would have been a stretch to call many of the present blue states as blue in 1990 and the red states as red. California is just one example and many of the dixie states were just turning red at the local level.

control their own spending. No unfunded mandates.

Do they lose medicaid/medicare/SS, too?

Because if they do, then I guarantee most red states would go Greece. Or worse.

Do they get to keep all the money from selling every bit of oil, gas, and coal that leaves the state?

Do they get to keep all the money from selling every bit of oil, gas, and coal that leaves the state?

How much of that do you think the federal gov gets? The problem is the people who own the resources live elsewhere. All we red states get for digging their coal is another day older and deeper in debt. Oh, and we also get ruined watersheds, polluted rivers and streams, black lung, etc.

I’m not talking about the money the Feds get. I’m just saying that if all Federal land becomes state land, and therefore the state gets to completely control the harvesting of resources, at least some of the red states will be just fine without sending any money to the Feds or getting any back as long as they have complete control.