The Housing Bubble

Do you have any data to support your Japanese RE prices still falling claim? From what I’ve heard prices have been flat sor some time now.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-10-29 18:02:22

“Just like all bubble burst, all busts recover.”

In the long run, we are all dead.

– John Maynard Keynes

Check out where Japan is, twenty-one years after their housing bubble popped:

Oct 10, 2012

Japanese house prices continue to fall

House prices in Japan have continued to fall, as the country’s recovery fades due to weakening exports, the appreciating yen, and deflation.

In Tokyo Metropolitan Area:

The average price of new condominium units dropped 5.1% y-o-y to JPY691,000 (US$8,894) per square metre (sq. m.) in August 2012, based on figures released by the Land Institute of Japan (LIJ).

The average price of existing condominium units dropped 3.3% to JPY380,000 (US$4,891) per sq. m. during the year to August 2012, its 14 consecutive month of annual price falls.

The average price of detached houses was down by 1.7% to JPY31,770,000 (US$408,901) over the same period.

In Osaka Metropolitan Area:

The average price of new condominium units fell by 3.2% to JPY457,000 (US$5,882) per sq. m. during the year to August 2012.

The average price of existing condominium units fell 1.6% to JPY239,000 (US$3,076) per sq. m. over the same period.

Land prices have been more resilient. During the year to August 2012, the average price of land in Tokyo was unchanged at JPY187,000 (US$2,407) per sq. m., while in Osaka Metropolitan Area the average land price increased by 1.7% to JPY117,000 (US$1,506) per sq. m.

Japan house prices graph

During the first seven months of 2012, the total number of new dwellings started in Japan increased y-o-y by 2.5% to 490,781, mainly due to reconstruction after the Great Tohoku Earthquake, according to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT).

In Tokyo the number condos sold increased by 10.6% to 21,039, while detached houses sold increased by 9.5% during the first eight months of 2012, compared to the same period last year, according to LIJ.

Total outstanding real estate loans increased 1.5% y-o-y to JPY429 trillion (US$5.52 trillion) in Q2 2012, according to the Bank of Japan (BOJ).

Japan’s housing market is expected to remain weak and house prices to continue to fall in the coming months, as the economy remains fragile.

In the second quarter of 2012, the Japanese economy expanded real GDP grew 0.7%, only half of the government’s preliminary estimate of 1.4% and far lower than the 5.3% annual GDP growth recorded in Q1 2012. S&P expects the Japanese economy to grow by 2% in 2012.

The lost decade
Japan urban land price index graph

In fact, Japan is still recovering from the great asset bubble of the late 1980s. From 1970 to 1980, land prices in Japan rose 200% (23.5% in real terms), and 238.5% in the six major cities (39.3% in real terms). Then during the 1980s, there was a 103% increase nationally (61.6% in real terms) and a 272.2% rise in the six major cities (196.4% in real terms).

The 1991 crash left banks with bad loans of almost USD 1 trillion, contributing to Japan’s ‘lost decade’.
…

How badly was Japan’s economy hurt by the Tsunami and closure of nuclear plants?

How much has it been affected by China’s slowdown?

Can you attribute it all to the housing bust?

1. Our RE bubble was a baby compared to the Japanese Bubble–some markets saw a 90% fall in prices, which still made Japanese RE among the most expensive in the world;
2. Japan’s population is now decreasing.

These are two big deals when considering whether we will take the same path.

Hello All, Dont forget that Japan is essentially xenophobic and allows for zero immigration. Although I have been a strong beliver that we were indeed headed toward a Japan scenario, the fact that we have a much more open door policy on immigration and that our immigrants are breeding; the deflationary spiral may not be as severe. Only time will tell, but I do think pain is still imminent. The level of this pain is the one difficult target to determine.

The FED always does win. People snapping up sub $20K condos in 2010 - 2011 in Palm Beach County also seem to be winning. Sub $20K condos don’t exist any longer and these 2 bedroom units rent for $800. Take away the $300 carrying cost and it sure beats returns from any bank.

Would I invest in these same units for $40K which is what they seem to be fetching now? Not a chance. Do I wish I had dropped $60K on 3 units when I had the chance? You bet.

“Since I don’t trust wall street I would rather go with a tangible asset I control.”

IMHO, this was one of the drivers of the bubble.

“I remember working and saving all the money I could in my bank account while I sat around watching people make a boatload of money on their homes. Made me look like a fool.”

A couple of friends were in a position early-on to borrow easily, and make the payments if things didn’t go as planned. I wasn’t there yet, myself, so I missed out on that opportunity. My friends had “three six-figure incomes” for a couple of years; can’t knock that!

I remember working and saving all the money I could in my bank account while I sat around watching people make a boatload of money on their homes. Made me look like a fool.

A lot of people felt the same way about the stock bubble which peaked a few years prior. A lot of people lost their shirts in both bubbles. A few made money. But I suspect a lot more lost money.

I remember working and saving all the money I could in my bank account while I sat around watching people make a boatload of money on their homes. Made me look like a fool.

I agree with H2bH. This is exactly how things got out of control in the first place in the 2000s bubble. It’s one thing if your intent is to derive cash flow. Your intent seems wholly different…and ill-fated.

…and +1 to you too, Neuro (your post wasn’t up when I posted mine).

There’s a lot of wisdom in this heuristic. The PTB are interested in keeping the big players in the black. Whatever happens to the smaller players is not much of a concern. In fact, the Fed and the government constantly encourage the individual citizen to go into debt. This reduction of net worth is bad for the individual, but good for the lending companies. And it’s good for the Wall Street casino, as gambling attracts those who don’t see a bright financial future and are looking for the big score.

Right now, the Fed is faking demand for MBS which in turn affects the physical asset market. The MBS demand isn’t driven by market forces as far as I can tell.

The practical question is - where does it go from here?

What the Fed is doing by keeping house prices at bubble levels is reducing the inflow of new buyers into the pipeline. “Killing the plankton” again, when the supply of FBs became exhausted.

One observation is that the NAR is likely to hit some doldrums. If the Fed and government insist on keeping prices high, fewer new buyers will enter the pipeline. Conversely, if they don’t support prices, fewer buyers will want to sell at the lower prices. Without full-blown lending debauchery, it’s unclear how sales volumes will climb significantly.

“The MBS demand isn’t driven by market forces as far as I can tell.”

I disagree (kind of).

MBS demand WAS being driven by market forces. But that market WAS dramatically influenced by the Fed ZIRP. Now, the Fed now buying MBS directly, forcing down those rates further.

As time goes on, IF the new vintage MBS have strong performance (low default rates), then when the Fed takes off the training wheels (stops the direct buying), it might just ride on it’s own. After all, we have a huge number of retirees that will be clamoring for yield wherever they can get it…

“IF the new vintage MBS have strong performance (low default rates), then when the Fed takes off the training wheels (stops the direct buying), it might just ride on it’s own.”

This theory holds no water. But no matter, as I don’t believe the Fed will ever take the MBS market off life support to test it.

“This theory holds no water. But no matter, as I don’t believe the Fed will ever take the MBS market off life support to test it.”

+1 Agreed. They’re in too deep.

And that’s where you’re mistaken once again. And sadly, when confronted with the truth about housing, you immediately invoke “keep renting”. That’s all you’ve got to defend your misrepresentations? Seriously?

Enjoy your losses my friend.

Speaking from experience?

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I didn’t say houses go to zero but on that point, they eventually end at zero. Your maintenance expenses(always grossly understated) offset that depreciation. You’ll pay the material and labor costs of initial construction just to offset the depreciation over 30 years. Combined with what are the grossly inflated asking prices falling to realistic levels over the coming few decades, you have real and massive losses coming down the barrel….. right at you.

Presumably you financed it which nearly doubles the cost. That expense is irrecoverable.

Inflation? Unless you expect wages to triple to meet inflated housing prices that is. Not gonna happen. There is no wage inflation.

Get out while you still can and rent for the fraction of the massive capital and carrying costs you’re all denying.

The empire isn’t going to help you.

I didn’t say houses go to zero but on that point, they eventually end at zero.

if everyone understood this simple truth, very few people would be over-paying for houses.

Your maintenance expenses(always grossly understated) offset that depreciation.

and maintenance can never regain original value, only approach it.

—-

@overtaxed: you said..

If you think that inflation will ramp up in the future, owning your own house is a good way to protect yourself against devaluation of your dollars.

there’s nothing wrong with buying a house because you want to live in it. but don’t think it’s a good way to protect yourself from inflation, or devaluing dollars. in a declining economy, house prices can go down even in nominal dollars in spite of value remaining about the same. in other words, even during general price inflation, you may not be able to get a higher price for your house if you need to sell. it all depends on how well the economy is doing.

I didn’t say houses go to zero but on that point, they eventually end at zero.

When will a brownstone in Manhattan reach zero?

1963-1980.

And your attempt at misrepresenting my words is one of the most infantile I’ve seen, ever.

Manhattan Brownstones were free in 1980?

Was that the same year beach houses in Hawaii were free?

“When will a brownstone in Manhattan reach zero?”

Never. About the same time ocean/ICW-front houses in FL will reach 0. There are some areas that could potentially reach 0 (parts of Nevada come to mind), but that’s the exception rather than the rule.

” in a declining economy, house prices can go down even in nominal dollars in spite of value remaining about the same. in other words, even during general price inflation, you may not be able to get a higher price for your house if you need to sell. it all depends on how well the economy is doing.”

If price inflation is not coupled with income inflation, yes, you’re right. However, price inflation without income inflation is not sustainable (see: The Housing Bubble). Either incomes will come up to match prices, or prices will fall to match incomes. Or, we could go “3rd world”, where prices continue to climb, incomes for most fall, and a small group winds up owning everything and renting to most of the other people. In any of those scenarios; RE/gold/stocks/etc (things that generally go up in inflationary environments) are things that I want to own.

price inflation without income inflation is not sustainable (see: The Housing Bubble). Either incomes will come up to match prices, or prices will fall to match incomes..

i know what you’re saying. but incomes really never actually ‘inflate’. they do rise. they never inflate because an employer will never pay more than he has to. and if labor costs more than he can pay, he has to shut down or maybe do it all himself. people always seem to think that prices must fall if they’re too high to sell at such and such. but businesses often fail because they can’t make something cheap enough for the public to want to buy it. there’s a price point below which they can’t go.

so, prices can remain high even as buying drops off. sometimes they even rise.

Or, we could go “3rd world”, where prices continue to climb, incomes for most fall, and a small group winds up owning everything and renting to most of the other people.

this is where we’re headed.

In any of those scenarios; RE/gold/stocks/etc (things that generally go up in inflationary environments) are things that I want to own.

gold and silver (not stocks), would be the best things to own.

“Manhattan Brownstones were free in 1980?”

Correct. You couldn’t give them away as they were being demo’ed.

Deal with that reality. The burden is yours and yours alone.

Correct. You couldn’t give them away as they were being demo’ed.

Man, don’t you wish you’d bought one then? They’re worth millions now, eh?

“I didn’t say houses go to zero but on that point, they eventually end at zero.

if everyone understood this simple truth, very few people would be over-paying for houses.”

I’m guessing our landlords would neither have overpaid for the house we rent nor pay for maintenance and upkeep. And if you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for your rental property, the slumlord strategy of failing to maintain your property in order to save expenses will not work, unless your plan is to give the home back to the bank after it crumbles to dust. Even the slumlord plan will fail if (1) something goes wrong with your ability to dump a physically depreciated house on the bank or (2) you can’t collect enough in rent from your tenants to offset other holding costs (e.g. paying PITI up until the day you dump the property).

“They’re worth millions now, eh?”

They are? If so, why buy one when you know they’re going back to their 1980 price?

, why buy one when you know they’re going back to their 1980 price?

Ah, but when?

When doesn’t matter given the magnitude of the loss.

When doesn’t matter given the magnitude of the loss.

If it happens long after you’re dead?

It begins the day you pay a grossly inflated price.

Smarten up.

car vs house = apples vs oranges.

Not really Avocado. Both are man made, manufactured items, both depreciate albeit at different rates.

Houses generally depreciate. Land generally appreciates. One of the reasons that owning rental property has been financially effective is because you can depreciate the house. The thing is, for most people, the house loses value more slowly than the land gains it. And, of course, with good maintenance, houses can maintain their value for a long time.

“Land generally appreciates.”

Not really. Adjusted for inflation land doesn’t “appreciate” at all.

“the house loses value”

The rate of depreciation depends on a few factors but make no mistake about it, the losses to depreciation are massive.

The rate of depreciation depends on a few factors but make no mistake about it, the losses to depreciation are massive.

What doesn’t depreciate?

“What doesn’t depreciate?”

1) Gold

2) Diamonds

3) Other PMs

4) Other gemstones

So you lose money investing in everything except PMs and jewels?

OK I thought the discussion was (physical) depreciation, not financial appreciation or loss.

Of course you can buy gold and sell it later at a financial loss in exactly the same (non-depreciated) physical condition.

OK I thought the discussion was (physical) depreciation, not financial appreciation or loss.

So something can physically depreciate, and yet still appreciate financially?

“So something can physically depreciate, and yet still appreciate financially?”

You must not have owned a home over the period from 1996-2006. Unmaintained crap shacks around Richmond, CA tripled in value over the period.

Nope.

Of course you can buy gold and sell it later at a financial loss in exactly the same (non-depreciated) physical condition.

Exactly.

So something can appreciate financially while depreciating physically?

Obviously, it can. Or has no one ever made money on, say, a house?

Houses depreciate and are a loss ALWAYS.

Don’t you have some robo calling to do?

‘Notice the words “investment” or “profit” are absent?’

This merely shows you don’t understand the applicability of these concepts to your post, even though they are implicit to your decision process.

I get attacked every day I post. It’s part of the deal.

“You are a joke.”

Thanks for bringing the Republican smear campaign home right here on the HBB. Heckuva job, Charlie!

P.S. For the record, I’m neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I’m more of an anti-bullshit guy than anything political.

BS

It’s good to know that this storm is not Bush’s fault. It’s Romney’s fault!

It’s good to know that this storm is not Bush’s fault. It’s Romney’s fault!

Lamest propaganda attempt on record?

BS

Lamest propaganda attempt on record?

LOL….So far today the Repub propaganda wannabes look totally amature. A bit scared maybe and … really, really lame.

Breitbart? ……Oliver Stone?……good grief….

But good luck all you up there in the storm!

You’re wrong, Charlie.

Cantankerous/Bear is strictly non-biased. He has said so repeatedly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

“Cantankerous/Bear is strictly non-biased. He has said so repeatedly.”

I never said that. I am all about fairness and balance, but I have a strong bias against bullsh!t, such as your posts, for example.

Yes, you have.

Whatever you say, MacBeth.

I begin to doubt the equivocation of the fiend that lies like truth.

– Shakespeare’s Macbeth

“So far today the Repub propaganda wannabes look totally amature. A bit scared maybe and … really, really lame.”

The thought crossed my mind that many professional propagandists (e.g. 2banana) may be suffering a power outage.

“P.S. For the record, I’m neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I’m more of an anti-bullshit guy than anything political.”

Dropped off our ballots yesterday; go Gary!

I am all about fairness and balance, but I have a strong bias against bullsh!t, such as your posts, for example.

Thanks for the good laugh. Needed that this morning.

“Thanks for the good laugh. Needed that this morning.”

I’ve also enjoyed laughing at your many ridiculous posts. Glad we could get each others’ days off to a good start…

Breitbart is a hero

Hero? I wouldn’t use the word “hero” describing a hate monger, liar and a rac!st. But that might be a “hero” to a lot of current day Repubs.

Breitbart brings ACORN videos lie to MSNBC

Andrew Breitbart falsely claimed that the ACORN videos created by James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles “clearly show in every — in almost every single office, the employees at ACORN helping aid and abet the establishment of an underage prostitution brothel.” But in six of the eight heavily edited videos produced by O’Keefe and Giles and distributed by Breitbart, either the activists did not clearly tell the ACORN employees that they were planning to engage in child prostitution; or the ACORN employees refused to help them or apparently deliberately misled them; or ACORN employees contacted the police following their visit.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/01/28/breitbart-brings-acorn-videos-lie-to-msnbc/159744

Brietbart is synonymous with “fraud”.

And that’s your hero?

There is nothing incongruent about the words “fraud” and “hero” in a neocon propagandist’s world.

Oh. So. True.

http://www.republicanoffenders.com

Breitbart was a smart, sad, affable duck-out-of-water who got stuck so far into his narrow little groove (and was so well-remunerated for it) that he couldn’t see beyond it and missed the larger picture entirely.

So frustrated. So angry. Anyone could see it coming.

Linquist = Norquist…

A return to Eisenhower Republicanism?

Ike was in the white house.
Women were in the kitchen.
Blacks were drinking from the separate water fountains.

Other than that, it was a heaven.

“A return to Eisenhower Republicanism?”

Holy chit, not the USA’s genocidal Morgenthau Plan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

Romney was in the white house.
Women were in the kitchen.
Blacks were drinking from the separate water fountains

Its Heaven….

Depends on whether you happen to be a woman or black.

“The flipper is able to buy for cash, the ultimate buyer has to take the time to apply for a loan.”

+1 A good friend told me early in life, “The people with the money make the money.”

So for clarification, you are predicting a Republican victory?

“Professor Bear don’t think just cut and paste.”

Big thinker guy Dan, I suggest you check out this web site before further posting:

The Elements of Style
William Strunk, Jr.

Asserting that one must first know the rules to break them, this classic reference book is a must-have for any student and conscientious writer. Intended for use in which the practice of composition is combined with the study of literature, it gives in brief space the principal requirements of plain English style and concentrates attention on the rules of usage and principles of composition most commonly violated.

“But the Prof is correct.”

I don’t expect any credit from neocon propagandists for my insight on this, but I do expect the MSM will bring up my point over the next few days.

I will be sure to post many links here when it happens.

Obama looking competent is getting a lot more visibility and undecided votes than any campaign rally ever would.

Really? Come on, more wishful thinking? Seriously?

There are no undecideds anymore. A person in Iowa will not vote based on how Obama answer a phone call from Christy. Let’s just give it a rest. This rainstorm will have zero impact on election!

but I do expect the MSM will bring up my point over the next few days.

They have been doing it for 4 years. Didn’t work. This time is different, right?

“This rainstorm will have zero impact on the election!!!” Karl Rove screaming at his wife, 10-30-2012

“This rainstorm…”

Read much? Or is it just that you are terminally clueless?

Monster storm Sandy leaves New York, eastern U.S. crippled
Mon, Oct 29 2012

The skyline of lower Manhattan sits in darkness after a preventive power outage in New York October 29, 2012. Hurricane Sandy could be the biggest storm to hit the United States mainland when it comes ashore on Monday night, bringing strong winds and dangerous flooding to the East Coast from the mid-Atlantic states to New England, forecasters said on Sunday.REUTERS-Keith Bedford

By Anna Louie Sussman and Michael Erman

NEW YORK | Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:43am EDT

(Reuters) - Millions of people awoke on Tuesday to scenes of destruction wrought by monster storm Sandy after it smashed into the eastern United States, cutting power to swathes of the nation’s most densely populated region, swamping New York’s subway system and submerging streets in Manhattan’s financial district

At least 15 people were reported killed along the eastern seaboard by Sandy, one of the biggest storms to ever hit the country, which dropped just below hurricane status before making landfall on Monday night in New Jersey.

The storm interrupted the presidential campaign a week before Election Day - posing both risks and opportunities for President Barack Obama as he seeks a second term in a tight race - and closed U.S. financial markets for a second day.
…

Wow, the storm edge that ranged from Florida to Canada has now reached Illinois. Does anybody ever recall a storm of this size in America before?

Does anybody ever recall a storm of this size in America before ?

Katrina was pretty big…But maybe it just had more visual impact…Like a neocon friend of mine told me…Katrina exposed the “under-belly” of America…

No, there hasn’t really been a storm this size. My understanding is that is was two already big low pressure storm systems forced together by several subsystems into one giant system. I don’t have the all the gory details, but I’m sure we’ll see a textbook right quick.

Rossy bleachblonde, if there are no undecided voters, then it doesn’t matter whether Obama does rallies, or disaster relief, or pretends to wash pots and pans at a food pantry in Chicago. It’s up to GOTV now.

All Your Community Organizer Are Belong To Us

“Obama looking competent”

The key word is “looking”. Not only is Obama incompetent, he is blinded by is radical politics which also makes him very dangerous. God help us.

“There are no undecideds anymore. A person in Iowa will not vote based on how Obama answer a phone call from Christy.”

Well, there must be *some* undecideds, and they get to watch Obama get free air time, presumably handling a crises well (let’s hope). Some folks have nothing else to go on.

Obama’s air time is not “free.” He earned that airtime by conducting and winning a campaign for high elected office. By definition, most of what he does is “news.”

By definition, most of what he does is “news.”

It’s also “history,” unlike what armchair quarterback rivals do.

“Obama’s air time is not “free.” He earned that airtime by conducting and winning a campaign for high elected office. By definition, most of what he does is “news.””

Of course, the incumbent gets the advantage here for that reason, but it’s still free air time, newsworthy though it may be.

The chance to see neocon extremists go ballistic if Obama gets reelected would be awesome!

Yep….Particularly with the military complex…

The chance to see neocon extremists go ballistic if Obama gets reelected would be awesome!

I have my issues with Obama (not socialist and communist enough!), so this was my primary reason for voting for him.

Hilary’s lawyer has already leaked that she authorized saving our people. Obama nixed the rescue and our heroes died as they were monitored on live feed.

The MSM is doing a good job at ignoring the whole story but too many patriots are in the loop to keep this quiet till election day.

Obama had our people die and lied about who killed them so his gun-running and epic failure in Libya wouldn’t be exposed.

As well he lied to not expose his lie that he had Al-Qaeda on the run. Their flags fly on the govt buildings in Libya and they killed out people. Obama prevented rescue so the Muslims would have all the time they needed to kidnap Stevens. Obama could then rescue Stevens just before the election probably by trading the Blind Sheik for him.

The story is emerging and is far more likely to take down a candidate than Sandy. The one thing we know for absolute certain at this point is that the adminsitration lied big time saying that a video was the cause when they knew it was an attack. The admin conducted a coverup and the reasons are quickly emerging.

“The story is emerging and is far more likely to take down a candidate than Sandy.”

Let’s compare notes on this in a couple of weeks. But if I were a betting man, I’d bet the incipient hurricane disaster response will have a lot more influence on the direction of the polls from here on out than an event that occurred weeks ago…

“Our heros?”

(puke)

Obama prevented rescue so the Muslims would have all the time they needed to kidnap Stevens. Obama could then rescue Stevens just before the election probably by trading the Blind Sheik for him.

Geez, you guys are really losing it.

Sorry Charlie, Obama’s Ben-Ghazi is getting as much traction as Romney’s tax returns… remember those?

I’m sure Issa will be all over it as usual, and will find no evidence of coordinated cover up, just a lot of Occam’s razors.

The attack makes little sense except in the context of a kidnapping of Stevens. The outpost had almost no defense and yet it took 7 hours for a planned attack to conclude? The attackers had mortars and grenade launchers as well as good numbers. They could have taken the consulate at will but they didn’t. The attackers shot out the tires of the vehicle that rescued the Americans and brought them to the CIA annex, another action that demonstrates intent to kidnap not kill.

When they got Stevens out and found him to be still breathing they cried “allah akbar” and took him to a hospital. They were happy that he was alive because they were getting paid to kidnap not murder.

Morsi has been waiting for the election to get the Blind Sheik but with the polls shifting he needed insurance and that insurance was Stevens.

The whole plan went wrong because of ex-seals disobeying orders to stand down, instead they went to the outpost and saved lives and where allowed to die.

“Sorry Charlie, Obama’s Ben-Ghazi is getting as much traction as Romney’s tax returns”

The people are watching this issue, they see that letting American patriots die over seas for political reasons is an acceptable loss in this administration’s communist rule book.

Let’s plan to compare notes on this over the next two weeks…and I note that Romney is trying to take over the president’s disaster-response role already before the election, just in case it turns out this matters to the outcome.

For Obama, an opportunity to take charge in a crisis

Although Hurricane Sandy blew President Obama’s re-election campaign far off its charted course, Mr. Obama still had the advantage over Republican rival Mitt Romney on Tuesday, embracing the presidential role of coordinating emergency relief efforts across the Eastern seaboard.

Seated in the White House Situation Room, Mr. Obama convened a video teleconference with Cabinet members and other federal officials to direct the government’s response to the storm. Intentionally or not, the president even managed to work in his campaign’s slogan in the midst of the ostensibly apolitical gathering.

“The president made clear that he expects his team to remain focused as the immediate impacts of Hurricane Sandy continue and lean forward in their response,” the White House said in a statement about the teleconference. “Forward” is the slogan of his re-election campaign; “Lean forward” is the motto of MSNBC, the liberal cable news network.

Both candidates suspended campaigning in person Tuesday, leaving that job to surrogates and aides. Mr. Obama also canceled campaign stops that were scheduled for Ohio on Wednesday.

But with only one week remaining to make his case to voters, Mr. Romney couldn’t afford to surrender the spotlight completely to the president. Instead, the Republican challenger held a hastily rebranded “storm-relief event” near Dayton to raise donations to the Red Cross for storm victims. He spoke on a stage draped with a huge American flag as volunteers stacked nonperishable goods nearby.
…

Truth hurts, doesn’t it?

How are votes cast irrelevant?

St00pidity is painless, isn’t it?

Not emotionally involved in any of the turd$ is certainly painless.

Is Brittany Spears posting today?

I heard that Republican internal polling shows Romney ahead.

Yes, that would be part of ‘bluffing’, would it not?

NYC is a test case. It has been effectively isolated. Once the masses resort to strongarm tactics to obtain drinkable water (which they will not find in their neighborhoods), we may witness unaccustomed events.

Folks who have lost power are not necessarily without water. I have been through more than a couple blackouts (including the last big black out a few summers ago in NYC) and no one lost water.

Losing running water is major - all those people gotta poop somewhere.

How The One inserts himself to restore order will be taken as a demonstration of his leadership capability. As with Benghazi, he may choose to watch it over a live feed while knocking down a coupla beers

Like I said, they’re losing it. The election, and their minds.

We may well witness a Prez, whoever it is, coming apart

Whether you like him or not Pres. Obama does not “come apart”. The dude’s had everything thrown at him the past 4 years except a shoe. He’s pretty cool under pressure.

Obama does not “come apart”.

Yeah. He issues orders that kill innocent women and children every week, and then plays golf. Cool as a cucumber.

“Once the masses resort to strongarm tactics to obtain drinkable water (which they will not find in their neighborhoods), we may witness unaccustomed events. ”

In NYC lower rise buildings, such as mine, get their water pressure by the natural gravity from the water system. (That is one of the reasons the old-style tenement buildings top out at about 5 stories.) High rises use the roof tanks that require pumps.

New Yorkers are a pretty resilient and resourceful lot and have had to endure a number of “unaccustomed events”.

As to how they react now, we’ll see…

Yeah. He issues orders that kill innocent women and children every week, and then plays golf. Cool as a cucumber.

That’s the nature of the job. If he decided to pull all our troops home from around the world, there would be much blood-letting, much killing of innocents, too. Some jobs are so weighty that many of the decisions are literally life and death. The presidency will always be one.

“Whether you like him or not Pres. Obama does not ‘come apart’ “.

- Rio, I did say “whoever it is”, not The One specifically. This will take a couple months to play out. You are right, though, The One is as cool as a cucumber, and as devoid of affect.

It would behoove all of us to bone up on “psychopaths”, “sociopaths”, and “narcissistic personality disorder”. According to the expert practitioners, these types represent 4% of the general population, whereas they represent over 20% of the population in the professions of politics; C-level corporate officers; and actors. Anybody, in short, who has to lie convincingly to rise to the top.

It is simply galling to me, to be ruled by psychopaths.

As for water: whyoung, without pumps, how long are those rooftop stores going to last? And without sewage and water treatment, how long until the gravitation-fed stores become undrinkable? Should be an ez calculation if you can figure out capacity vs. users.

‘The presidency will always be one’

Interesting that this country got along fine without doing this on a weekly basis for a couple hundred years.

‘much blood-letting, much killing of innocents’

I asked earlier what you Democrats stand for. I now know.

” If he decided to pull all our troops home from around the world, there would be much blood-letting, much killing of innocents, too. ”

That was my original sentence. I was referring to Ron Paul’s oft-stated desire to “pull all our troops home from around the world”. I was pointing out that that, too, would involve bloodshed, and the killing of innocents- would it not?

The nature of the President’s job is such that he will always be making life-or-death decisions.

“without pumps, how long are those rooftop stores going to last? ”

Not terribly long, but if you filled up the bathtub - as they advise - you can use a bucket for flushing.

Not meaning to say it couldn’t become a problem at some point, depending on how long it goes on.

But nearly everyone has friends in places that still have power or low rise buildings like mine that will be glad to have people come over for a shower, etc.

And New Yorkers know how to walk on a regular basis… (My personal record is from the garment center to Astoria in Sept. 2011.)

The test of a real New Yorker is how you deal with some of the absurdities and indignities that are part of the price of admission here and require a special mind set if you are going to last here for more than a couple of years.

(One of my most annoying memories of 9/11 was a newcomer co-worker who, since the subways were down, was whining that she “did not know how she was going to get home” and she lived 30 uptown blocks away! )

Also not saying that people don’t behave badly here, it’s just that devolving into anarchy may not happen as quickly as you think.

“…they’re losing it. The election, and their minds…”

A-S, who are we talking about here? The “They”, I mean.

Here is a thought experiment.

I don’t think the election is anything more than bread and circuses, provided to us courtesy of the 300 oligarchs as a distraction. So that “we” (the 99.999%) don’t have bandwidth left over to take notice or to take action about the real circumstances of our lives.

Such as: we have been cynically dumbed down. Vanishingly few of us know how to think critically anymore. Even fewer are numerate. The poor man’s opera (dumb breeding - it’s cheap entertainment), texting, and grunting for “my team” can be done on $500/week. Making sure that the 99.999% are distracted and comatose ensures that nobody will raise questions about the long game.

The long game is to ensure the median lifespan is shortened enough to solve the Social Security; Medicare; Medicaid; health care; unemployment; and income inequality problems. We’ll be there in the next couple of generations. It is by virtue of our own “voting”.

Reminds me of tee-vee footage years ago on the invasion of the Falkland Islands. In the midst of inflation/wealth transfer of unimaginable proportions, accompanied by social unrest, the junta in Argentina undertook a diversionary tactic by invading the Falkland Islands. The move was a maneuver by a cynical oligarchy to invoke nationalism, to distract and unite a citizenry whose prospects were sinking with the speed of a lead balloon. Night after night, I saw bovines in lipstick and knuckle-dragging Neanderthals on tee-vee, united in their common delirium, shaking their fists and shouting “Las Malvinas!!! Las Malvinas!!!” Defeat was predictable - after all, the junta was both intellectually and morally bankrupt. What they had in spades was a need for a manufactured distraction.

We are those lipsticked bovines and knuckle dragging Neanderthals every four years, braying on behalf of our candidates. As a body politick, we have become too stupid to see that we are maneuvered and distracted. We do not conceive of the .001% who are the puppetmasters, and lack the insight to see that the legislative, executive and judicial branches have degraded into artificial constructs.

It doesn’t matter who occupies those seats. What is assured is that the .001% will be protected from scrutiny; that the current cardboard masks in Congress and the Presidency are paid well to ensure the anonymity of the .001%; and that regardless of the paint on the cardboard masks, they will act in whichever way their strings are pulled.

The only way to disarm the machine is to vote out the incumbents, every time. And to get youngsters into the party mainstream through the local pipeline - which of course they don’t have time to do, since they’re scrambling for $500/week under enormous debt loads. From what I’ve seen, the feeder teams (local election) machines are not structurally corrupt (except with developers). It is at the level of state level politics where money becomes paramount and machine politics exercises sponsorship, choosing the most biddable to serve as fronts for the oligarchs. It takes years to really discern for sure whether or not somebody is a fellow psychopath. Just as well - politics is a long road. It takes time to exercise the secret handshakes (verify whether or not you’re ‘one of us’) with all of the members of the anointed on the way up.

Teach your children to lie with the smoothness of Italian silk, once you give them the understanding of the game that’s being played.

This prospective movement will be a fifty year endeavor. One for which any reasonably well-rounded youth will have little taste. It is soul-sucking to have to live in the presence of psychopaths and courtiers. You always have to take your cues of how to act and what to say from your handlers and your audience - otherwise, you stop “passing” and your sponsorship dries up. Maybe you get assassinated. The only offset is the adoration of truly ignorant crowds, and the assurance of what appears (to us 99.999%-ers) to be wealth once you walk out alive. With the understanding that you are only there to have your strings pulled until you and yours can restore a principled republic.

This is a difficult problem, that will require generations of sustained effort. Sustained effort is only possible for those who have leisure time, a vanishing prospect for the Lucky Ducky class (err, that would be the 99.999% of which I am part).

Given that we 99.999% are increasingly fragmented and increasingly dumb, increasingly incapable of even envisioning independent thought, the prospect of regaining a principled center becomes unlikely.

Numerically, the odds are with the non-psychopaths. However, the psychopaths play the game ever so much better, and they recognize one another, whereas we do not recognize them.

That’s my thought experiment.

“As with Benghazi, he may choose to watch it over a live feed while knocking down a coupla beers.”

Are you a journalist? I’d love to see a link to a reputable source of that information, but something tells me that you don’t have one (you mentioned the MSM didn’t cover this detail). But you undoubtedly will nonetheless assure us all on your good word the story is true.

This happens to be where I take a major exception with a number of posters who complain I post too many articles here. The alternative style of posting often amounts to pure, unadulterated fiction.

whyoung - I know what you mean by walking. One nice thing about NY is that it is laid out logically and you can actually find your way from “A” to “B” once you know the data architecture (if you will, lol!). This does not compare to your journey in gravity or stamina - but when I was in high school I walked from the NYU campus downtown to Columbia just because I COULD. An empowering experience.

BTW, I am not hoping for bad things to happen, and I do have faith in the tenacity of New Yorkers. It is a different city now than it was then, and the times have changed everywhere. There’s less self-sufficiency, more requirement for instant everything, more resentment. Witness your whining co-worker. And the free sh*t armies.

Prof, you’re right, no Drudge link to an interview with The One where he regales the reporter about watching Benghazi whilst downing beers. The post in question was an essay, a thought piece, not expository or technical writing. Most often when I post here, it’s because something strikes me that I’ve thought about before in a different context. I do know to use cites and footnotes and all when appropriate. It’s just that when yer thinking out loud, what’re you gonna do? Cite yourself? I’m frequently silly but I try not to be a jerk, lol!

The One is still busy covering up. The cognitive dissonance involved in going from “It was the anti-Muslim tape that did it!” to “Yeah, I knew what was going on, I told those Marines to stand down and let it roll” is too great for even him to attempt it without sounding ridiculous. He would be placed in the position of admitting he (or his proxies) lied. Whenever he’s in that position, he ignores the circumstance.

Prof Bear, please don’t get me wrong. I very much appreciate all of the articles you post. Because of you, I read things that I would never have the time or energy to look up, even if I had thought about them in the first place. Peace.

I don’t think the election is anything more than bread and circuses, provided to us courtesy of the 300 oligarchs as a distraction. So that “we” (the 99.999%) don’t have bandwidth left over to take notice or to take action about the real circumstances of our lives.

Surprising They allow us to discuss such things on the internet, when they could easily stop it.

Prof, you’re right, no Drudge link to an interview with The One where he regales the reporter about watching Benghazi whilst downing beers. The post in question was an essay, a thought piece, not expository or technical writing.

Oh, so it was a bunch of BS, you admit AFTER being called out to show your sources.

Thanks for wasting our time with your propaganda! Liar.

“Prof Bear, please don’t get me wrong. I very much appreciate all of the articles you post. Because of you, I read things that I would never have the time or energy to look up, even if I had thought about them in the first place. Peace.”

Peace back at you, especially if you are in or near NYC.

alpha, there is no point in silencing people who are powerless to influence. Much better to ignore “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” (Macbeth 5:5) and be thought benevolent.

Jane,

A tour de force. Bless you for posting this and I can’t wait to read your rebuttal to yourself. As a fellow (literarily-oriented) zombie apocalyte, I hope you got an A on it.

PS. Re: your fifty-year undertaking: there is a reason my son calls me the “Manchurian Mum”. Some of us took that sixties meme, “subvert from within”, seriously.
Hugs.

Speaking of lies, we have a woman running for Congress in Arizona who has past affiliations with the communist party USA. Kyrsten Sinema is another in a long list of radicals who intentionally lie to the public about their politics. Most people are too busy to check the background of candidates, they rely on the media an TV ads.

Communists, who have taken over the Democrat party, take full advantage of an uninformed electorate. It’s one thing to lie about your opponent, but the communists lie about themselves routinely and are never called out by the media.

How does it feel Democrats, how does it feel to pull the lever for communists? How did you let the party of Truman and Kennedy slip away? Why will you not take a stand?

“Tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth.”

Rove stole the idea from a Nazi’s playbook.

And I’m not lying:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

– Joseph Goebbels

Nick, you seem to see a communist under every bush. Are you proposing we should return to the McCarthy era, just to make sure the communists don’t win?

Yes, they are subversives of the worst kind, but in my day to day life I am not losing a whole lot of sleep worrying about them. I have faith that we as Americans can smoke them out.

Not speaking for Nick, other than to observe that he is a critical thinker. There’s aspects of communism, and of the enforced political correctness embodied in McCarthyism, that are abhorrent to people who are critical thinkers.

For me, it is the erosion of choice, the enforcement of dogma, the undermining of free will. The state knoweth, the state disposeth, and the state taketh away. There were times in my life where this arrangement was appropriate, such as before I was twelve and my parents watched me like a hawk.

Once I became an adult, it dawned on me that this was my only time at bat. I wanted to pick my own pitches etc. For an external entity to dictate my game without my having a majority say became problematic.

I have gotten some fallout from this mindful exercise of free thought/will/whatever. For example, I was never what anybody in their wildest imaginations would ever have called a properly submissive wife. And I have an unsung talent (if I do say so myself) for p*ssing off autocratic managers just by virtue of breathing.

Other than that, it’s not a bad thing, thinking your own thoughts, assessing choices, and picking your own way. I don’t suppose anybody who is a critical thinker would embrace surroundings with McCarthy-type monitoring, or communism either for that matter.

Critical thinkers know how to separate their fears from their rhetoric, and reasoned argument from presupposition.

This means being able to see that professing anarchism, for example, does not necessarily make one a “commie”–whatever that means anymore. And recognizing that free choice can be suppressed by free markets just as easily as by The State. It also requires a certain facility with irony and yes, a semantic reluctance to substitute blanket definition when nuance is indicated.

Critical thinking, as I define it, requires at least a modicum of open-minded analysis, and an historical understanding of political consequence — and I’ve not seen the slightest indication of any of that from nick-who-blames-progressives’ here on Ben’s Blog. But I keep hoping….

Gallup’s polling method skews towards older whites, with land lines:

In 2012, noted poll analyst Mark Blumenthal criticized Gallup for a slight but routine under-weighting of black and Hispanic Americans that led to an approximately 2% shift of support away from Barack Obama…

Gallup conducts 1,000 interviews per day, 350 days out of the year, among both landline and cell phones across the U.S. for its health and well-being survey. Though Gallup surveys both landline and cell phones, they conduct only 150 cell phone samples out of 1000, making up 15%.[6] The population of the U.S. that rely only on cell phones (owning no landline connections) make up more than double, at 34%.[7] This fact has been a major criticism in recent times of the reliability Gallup polling, compared to other polls, in its failure to compensate accurately for the quick adoption of ‘cell phone only’ Americans. [8]
wikipedia

“Though Gallup surveys both landline and cell phones, they conduct only 150 cell phone samples out of 1000, making up 15%.[6] The population of the U.S. that rely only on cell phones (owning no landline connections) make up more than double, at 34%.”

I’m guessing they are aware of this and adjust for it? A simple adjustment for different sampling rates in the two groups is all that is needed to make poll results unbiased.

“I’m guessing they are aware of this and adjust for it?”

Apparently they don’t:

(from the quote)
This fact has been a major criticism in recent times of the reliability Gallup polling, compared to other polls, in its failure to compensate accurately for the quick adoption of ‘cell phone only’ Americans. [8]

From the Time article on Republican Senator Scott Brown:

Although the rest of the country sees Massachusetts as the bluest of blue states — it had not elected a Republican Senator since Richard Nixon was President — its political complexion is actually more subtle. Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans 3 to 1, but fully half the state’s voters are registered “unenrolled” — not affiliated with any party. And four of its last five governors have been Republicans, albeit ones of a more moderate stripe than that of the national party.

MA electoral vote always goes for the Democratic candidate and the Republicans have been the minority party on Beacon Hill for as long as I can remember…

I’ve explained why I think the AWB is ridiculous on this board many times. I won’t go into too much detail again, but the bottom line is even with the MA AWB, I own legal versions of an AR15 and an AK47 as well as numerous high-capacity magazines for both… all “legal”. All the AWB has done is increase the consumer cost to acquire in MA and limit available supply, since manufactures have to make specific compliant models for “Ban States”. I don’t view either as a “win” for firearms enthusiasts.

When they start determining what kinds of guns you can have it becomes a slippery slope. When some politician declares marshal law I’d prefer not to be limited to 8 rounds. I’m just sayin’.

When some politician declares marshal law I’d prefer not to be limited to 8 rounds. I’m just sayin’.

Indeed… though I prefer to use the excuse “Zombie Apocalypse” instead of “Martial Law”. Less frightening to the liberal fools who think any governmental authority will keep them safe in a SHTF event.

It’s almost like liberals conveniently forgot about Katrina or the LA race riots, etc. Not to mention all the free-crap libtards tweeting they’re going to riot if Romney wins.

Ever see what 7.62×39 does to a pumpkin at 50 yards? I guarantee rioters and looters that come near my family will find out first hand…

When they start determining what kinds of guns you can have it becomes a slippery slope.

Yeah, almost forgot. Because the MA AG is always a libtard who likes to make things difficult for firearms manufacturers and enthusiasts in this state, they maintain confusing lists of compliant and certified handguns. You have to be on both lists or no sale in the state. Every wonder why, unless you’re Police, you can’t buy a Glock in MA made after 1992? Thank the libtards and Glock, who refuses to make a “MA-compliant” model.

The AG also require certain “features” on handguns sold here, like 10+lb pull triggers. Ever try and hit a target with a pistol that had a bad trigger? It’s like throwing darts when you’re drunk… and that’s supposed to make us safer: Heavy trigger pull = fewer accidental discharges = safer according to libtards in MA.

How about being able to hit your target when you need to without endangering innocent bystanders? Nope, the AG would rather just prosecute you for manslaughter.

“Don’t Tread on Me”

libtards tweeting they’re going to riot if Romney wins.

And they’re not even organized Party committees or in powerful elected positions, unlike the Republicans:

Virginia Republicans Call for Armed Revolution if Obama Wins in November August 20th, 2012

“….a Virginia Republican Committee newsletter has called for armed revolution if President Obama is re-elected in November….

….In the Virginia Republican Committee newsletter, there is nothing to imply that protecting Americans from the “prey of the rich on the poor” is the reason for calling for armed rebellion. According to the newsletter, President Obama, is a “political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized,” and that the only option is “armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November…

Republicans calling for armed insurrection against the government is nothing new, and few are apt to forget congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) saying “I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back,”

….Another Republican, Sharon Angle, said in a radio interview that it may come to the point that the public would bring down an out-of-control Congress with “Second Amendment remedies.”

….Throughout all of the violent rhetoric, there has not been any condemnation by leading Republicans, and after the Virginia Republican Committee newsletter, it is easy to see why………. ”

http://www.politicususa.com/virginia-republicans-call-armed-revolution-obama-wins-november.html

Have to love those southern states that are still sore about losing the Civil War…

When the Police/SWAT/DEA/ATF/FBI keep begging for more high powered weapons(which they always get) I tend to think they are planning on dealing with guys like you and not rioting food stamp free loaders. Since you are a good law abiding citizen I’m sure you registered your guns so you are on their list already.

PS: The best weapon in the world is having everybody think you have nothing of value. Deceive, distract & obfuscate - Tao Te-Ching - Art of War.

Obama, is a “political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized,”

And we thought the right was nuts about Clinton when he was in power. They’re really losing their moorings, with one of Them in the ‘White’ House.

The best weapon in the world is having everybody think you have nothing of value.

Good luck in getting laid with that strategy.

Good luck in getting laid with that strategy.

If it flies, floats, or f**k’s, rent it… it’s cheaper in the long run.

According to the newsletter, President Obama, is a “political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized

I wonder where they buy their history books?

I wonder where they buy their history books?

Texas.

The Texas Board of Education determine the content of the text books in Texas and because that market is so large, text book publisher’s generally use it as their baseline to sell to the rest of the country. I worked for Pearson Education at one point… it was a startling and sobering experience regarding the state of public education.

So that explains why they’ve never heard of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro or those kooky Kim guys that run North Korea.

To quote Professor Digory Kirke of the Narnia Chronicles: What do they teach children these days?

Aslan

If you want a AK-47 just drop in to a gun show and pick one up.

MA compliant versions are more expensive than in other states and have been “neutered”… no bayonet lug, no flash suppressor (or even the threads to install a legal muzzle brake), fixed stocks, etc. They also come with a 10-round magazine, for the same price as other state’s 30-round.

weren’t most of Romney’s tax hikes more like jacked up fees, fines and permits

Yes. in fact, the firearm licensing fee went from $25 to $100. Might not sound like much, but many gun owners and hunters are retired, on fixed incomes. Now it costs them 4X as much for the constitutional right to bear arms… where in the Constitution does it say only those with financial means can exercise their rights?

“Don’t Tread On Me”

“Have to love those southern states that are still sore about losing the Civil War…”

You mean the war to make black people need money?

Speaking of guns, I wonder what kind of weapons Romney and Obama’s security teams carry?

Oh I get it, its different for them; their family is more valuable than yours.

You mean the war to make black people need money?

Yes, slavery was an idyllic life. No need for money, no worries about a roof over your head. Just a sweet life on the plantation, singin’ and dancin’ and fishin’…

That’s why all the freed slaves hated Lincoln. He ruined a cool scene.

You mean the war to make black people need money?

There as never talk of such during the Civil War, The Great Compromise, The Kansas/Nebraska act nor the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

There as

There “was” never…

“Oh I get it, its different for them; their family is more valuable than yours.”

Yep.

By the way, what exactly classifies a weapon as an assault weapon? A person can be assaulted by a variety of ballistic, edged or blunt weapons including the hands and feet and even a man’s johnson.

By the way, what exactly classifies a weapon as an assault weapon?

It’s like pornography…I just know it when I see it. [/sarcasm]

Supreme Court - No change. The court usually sides with the government whatever the make up. Recent example, ObamaCare.

BushTaxCutsForRich - Wasn’t it suppose to expire in 2011? Obama extended it and will do so again.

Medicare, Soc Sec - Obama is more likely to cut these because Dems in congress will support him. Also, there’s no other way, austerity is the reality regardless Romney or Obama.

Women’s Issues - Really?

Safety nets - no change regardless who wins.

Investment in education and infrastructure - Don’t we already have enough shiny administrative and athletics buildings?

Renewal Energy - how many cronies are still left?

Race and hate - You are a wastrel.

I agree Rio…Offer me a better alternative and I may vote for him/her…Its why my vote was cast for Obama in 2008…What was my alternative…McCain/Palin

Race and hate - You are a wastrel.

Buck up. Just tellin’ it like it is. You should quit whining, man-up and recognize your (once proud) party’s reality.

My party is full of racists’

Retired Colonel John Wilkerson is a Republican who served as General Colin Powell’s chief of staff

Colin Powell’s former chief of staff publicly blasted the Republican Party and one of Mitt Romney’s top aide as racists over a controversial comment regarding Powell’s endorsement of President Obama.

Appearing on Ed Schultz’s MSNBC show Friday, retired Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson said, ‘My party is full of racists’ in response to John Sununu’s remark that the only reason Powell, a Republican who served as secretary of state under George W. Bush, backed the Democratic incumbent is because both men are black.

‘My party, unfortunately, is the bastion of those people — not all of them, but most of them — who are still basing their positions on race.

‘Let me just be candid: My Party is full of racists, and the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White house has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander-in-chief and president, and everything do with the color of his skin, and that’s despicable.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223908/John-Sununu-My-party-racists-Former-Colin-Powell-aide-blasts-GOP-Romney-adviser-says-ex-Secretary-State-supporting-Obama-hes-black.html

Women’s Issues - Really?

Care to be more specific? The way it’s looking, a woman’s only birth control option will be saying “no.” And if “no” doesn’t work, well then it’s legitimate rape and I guess she can always count on that mysterious anti-pregnancy mechanism.

it’s legitimate rape and I guess she can always count on that mysterious anti-pregnancy mechanism.

If the pregnancy ‘takes’, it was clearly God’s will.

So does that mean the it wasn’t really a rape, or that god “overrode” the mystery anti-pregnancy mechanism? It would make a difference as to whether the alleged rapist was convicted, no?

Clearly, if the rape ‘takes’, it was God’s will, and the rapist should be freed, with honor.

And the woman should have to marry him.

Goat swill.

I don’t see the constitutional/libertarian view having any chance under Obama. If it’s going to take root at all, I believe it will be from the “right”. Hence the Romney vote.

+1000.

I don’t see the constitutional/libertarian view having any chance under Obama. If it’s going to take root at all, I believe it will be from the “right”.

There’s much more involved with American liberty than just 30 round Glock mags and “Don’t Tread on Me” flaglets.

The right-wing SCOTUS passed Citizens United which went against a hundred years of Constitutional Supreme Court precedent. Where is our liberty from corporate political dominance now?

And in a 5-4 right-wing ruling on April 12, 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the right of jails to strip search any new detainees, even those who have been arrested for minor offenses. That’s liberty?

And it’s the right that pushes mandatory drug testing and drug prison time much more than the left. Where’s your liberty?

First words of the Bill of Rights dealing with separation of church and state…..The Dems will violate this before the Right?

On women, how many liberties would the right violate vs the left?

Repeal Obamacare? Where’s my freedom and liberty to start my own business if I’m afraid to lose health-care? That’s economic freedom and liberty? What??

It seems like it’s the Right now much more than the left that threatens my American liberties.

I agree with you 100% in regards to Citizens United. The rest, not so much…

The rest, not so much…

That’s a pretty weak response.

That’s a pretty weak response.

Really? Sorry to disappoint. Well, no, not really.

Prisoner’s rights? Give me a break. Can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

Drug laws? Again, give me a break. See above.

Separation of Church and State? It’s a lack of moral values that has created many of the problems in our society today… maybe what we need is more Church and less State.

Women’s rights and abortion? Abortion is abhorrent and those that are pro-choice support killers, nothing more. Here’s a hint: learn to use birth control.

Obamacare? A monstrosity that does nothing to reign in medical costs while forcing us to purchase a product sold for profit or pay a tax.

As I said, I agree 100% on Citizen’s United being a problem. Everything else I disagree with.

Here’s a hint: learn to use birth control.

Here’s a hint for you. Consistency when it comes to death issues (war, abortion, death penalty) gives you credibility. What you wrote shows you have none.

Here’s a hint: learn to use birth control.

YOU FIRST.

Innocent people are arrested and convicted every day. I know this for a FACT.

Yet they should be denied rights just for being arrested? Do you think the 4th Amendment is just an inconvenience, like most of law enforcement?

Here’s a hint: learn to use birth control.

YOU FIRST.

We had our two children and then I went and to the doc and got snipped, so yeah, I did go first. Get over it.

Consistency when it comes to death issues (war, abortion, death penalty) gives you credibility. What you wrote shows you have none.

You want to compare war, criminal punishment and abortion in the same vein? Whatever. I’ll gladly kill the enemies of my country and won’t shed a tear for killers who are sentenced to death. But don’t try and say a life is a life is a life when talking about those things and comparing it to abortion.

arrested and convicted

Arrested and convicted are two very different things. A conviction requires a preponderance of evidence. If you are arrested on false pretenses, you make bail (if one was set) and get your day in court to prove your innocence.

Sorry, but convicts are convicted for a reason. Not to say mistakes don’t happen in our justice system, because they do, but by and large, those who are in our prisons are not innocent, despite what they say.

There’s much more involved with American liberty than just 30 round Glock mags and “Don’t Tread on Me” flaglets.

The right-wing SCOTUS passed Citizens United which went against a hundred years of Constitutional Supreme Court precedent. Where is our liberty from corporate political dominance now?

Libertarians claim to care about “freedom” but never mention the fact that most American adults spend about half their waking hours at a job, and during that time, libertarians do not care about your liberty. Instead, they condone the most brutal of tyrannies all in the name of a private employer’s freedom.

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/07/01/let-it-bleed-libertarianism-and-the-workplace/

You want to compare war, criminal punishment and abortion in the same vein? Whatever. I’ll gladly kill the enemies of my country and won’t shed a tear for killers who are sentenced to death. But don’t try and say a life is a life is a life when talking about those things and comparing it to abortion.

Thank you for being honest about your hypocrisy.

Sorry, but convicts are convicted for a reason.

To feed Prison Nation/Police State/Largest prison population in the world and growing, 3 strikes-more prison guards, smoke a joint go to jail, feed the lawyers machine America.

(And you’re worried about the left taking your liberties) good grief.

But don’t try and say a life is a life is a life when talking about those things and comparing it to abortion.

“Deficits and war’s innocent collateral damage don’t matter.” 2001,Dick Cheney on crack.

Instead, they condone the most brutal of tyrannies all in the name of a private employer’s freedom.

LOL. You obviously don’t get it. In this country, you can quit your job any time for another, or better yet, start your own company and work for yourself. Whatever that article was, it wasn’t about libertarians… maybe anti-capitalist liberals, but not libertarians.

Don’t like the work environment? Quit. Don’t like your boss? Quit. Don’t like your schedule? Quit. Don’t like your pay? Quit.

Life, liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. No where in there does it say “and guarantees that your employer bend over backwards to make you happy”.

“Sorry, but convicts are convicted for a reason.”

Not all are guilty. Again, I know this for a FACT. Poor people get convicted all the time.

In this country, you can quit your job any time for another job that will (also) condone the most brutal of tyrannies all in the name of a private employer’s freedom.

or better yet, start your own company and work for yourself without health-insurance because that’s freedom.

Life, “liberty”, and the Pursuit of (the 1%’s) Happiness.

“You obviously don’t get it. In this country, you can quit your job any time for another, or better yet, start your own company and work for yourself.”

No, you can’t. Only SOME people can.

You live in a dream world.

Only SOME people can.

Really? So Lincoln didn’t abolish slavery after all and people are physically chained to their desks or workstations?

I do live in a dream world… one where I am free to pursue my dreams and create a better life for my children. But then the damn liberals come along and say, “That’s not fair, you have more than all these other people. We’ll take that from you and give it to them”.

Sorry, it’s not a dream world, it’s a damn nightmare. Here’s hoping the nightmare is over in two weeks.

or better yet, start your own company and work for yourself without health-insurance because that’s freedom.

Speaking of that. My startup is moving along. If we get funded by June of next year, I’ll be quitting my current job to work on it full time. Want to know what I’m thinking about instead of thinking about the concerns of my startup?

Health insurance. As in, my family is currently on my current employer’s health insurance. If I quit my job, we lose our current insurance, but can’t switch to my wife’s employer’s insurance unless it’s open enrollment, in January. But we won’t know about VC funding until June.

What happens if we don’t have insurance? I pay a tax penalty. Why not just have my startup pay for insurance? We’ll be funded right? Ah, yes, so my startup has to divert precious limited capital from a seed investment to pay for employee benefits that could otherwise be spent on sales, marketing, and technology operations. Again, no insurance, I pay a tax penalty.

This is the monster that is Obamacare. This is the monster that is state-mandated insurance coverage. This is the monster of government regulation. All I can say is that I can’t wait until Obama loses and Romney gets rid of this crap. He isn’t the perfect candidate, but Obama is a goddamn abomination.

Prisoner’s rights? Give me a break. Can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

Wait til your daughter gets strip-searched after getting caught drinking at an underage party. You’ll be bouncing off the walls, posing with your Glock.

Drug laws? Again, give me a break. See above.

Separation of Church and State? It’s a lack of moral values that has created many of the problems in our society today… maybe what we need is more Church and less State.

LOL- Yes, you’re quite the Constitutionalist/libertarian, aren’t you? You don’t even know, or are incapable of understanding, the meaning of the words.

Abortion is abhorrent and those that are pro-choice support killers, nothing more. Here’s a hint: learn to use birth control.

There’s your average Romney supporter, ladies. Has he got your vote?

Obamacare? A monstrosity that does nothing to reign in medical costs while forcing us to purchase a product sold for profit or pay a tax.

So you’re going to vote for the guy that invented it? Brilliant logic!

“Sorry, but convicts are convicted for a reason.”

If you knew what you were talking abut- or weren’t purposely obfuscating- you’d know that the Supreme Court ruled that jails could strip-search any detainees.

Being convicted has nothing to do with it.

the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed the right of jails to strip search any new detainees, even those who have been arrested for minor offenses.

you’d know that the Supreme Court ruled that jails could strip-search any detainees.

What’s that got to do with the price of tea in China? You want to get bent out of shape about it? Go head. I’ve got better things to worry about then being stripped searched if I’m arrested and detained.

There’s your average Romney supporter, ladies. Has he got your vote?

You think that bothers me? 1/3rd of the country shares my belief, including other women. You want to make a case for abortion in cases where the mother’s life is in danger? Fine. But given that birth control is readily available everywhere, taking an innocent life because you’re too irresponsible to use it is the worst kind of pathetic drivel. What choice does the unborn child have?

So you’re going to vote for the guy that invented it?

No, I’m going to vote for the guy who says he will get rid of it.

You don’t even know, or are incapable of understanding, the meaning of the words.

Whatever. Here’s the difference between you and me. I’m not forcing my belief or lack thereof on you. But you damn liberals certainly like to do it the rest of us… “Hurry, cancel the school Christmas party. Some heathen with support from the ACLU decided it bothered their sensibilities”.

Go take a long hike off a short pier, alpha. And while your at it, enjoy the moral decay of our society those like you and the ACLU have helped create.

But then the damn liberals come along and say, “That’s not fair, you have more than all these other people. We’ll take that from you and give it to them”.

You’re cracked. The taxes on the wealthy are at a 80 year low. So in light of that timeline, if you’re wealthy, your above sentence is an indication of the fantasy land in which you obviously live in.

Obama is a goddamn abomination

Obama Rocks! Totally Dude. (But the “Obama” and “abomi” sound cool together)

Obamacare? A monstrosity ……So you’re going to vote for the guy that invented it? Brilliant logic!

Dude…..THAT was funny!

Want to know what I’m thinking about instead of thinking about the concerns of my startup?

Obama outlawing civilian possession of mustard-gas?

Wait til your daughter gets strip-searched after getting caught drinking at an underage party

No such thing as arrested drinking underage at a party in Brazil.

No such thing as arrested drinking beer on the street in Brazil.

Countries are not all “free” in the same ways.

Go take a long hike off a short pier, alpha

Back atcha. Just don’t mistake your own fascism for libertarianism. As a libertarian, you’re a fraud.

What’s that got to do with the price of tea in China? You want to get bent out of shape about it? Go head.

It’s called liberty. You brought it up. Liberty is not just the ability to own an AK-47. There are many other more important ways the Right has infringed upon our Constitution, liberties and freedoms.

It’s not a one way street at all.

“You think that bothers me? 1/3rd of the country shares my belief, including other women. You want to make a case for abortion in cases where the mother’s life is in danger? Fine. But given that birth control is readily available everywhere, taking an innocent life because you’re too irresponsible to use it is the worst kind of pathetic drivel. What choice does the unborn child have? “

No birth control method is 100% effective, even when a woman is responsible enough to use it 100% of the time. No woman expects to get raped. Should she be required to use it just in case?

Here is a story about how exceptions for rape work in Poland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20143558

“A Polish teenager who became pregnant after rape should have had unhindered access to an abortion, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled.

The girl, who was then 14, was forced to have a clandestine abortion after harassment from pro-life groups led to her being turned away from hospitals.

The court ordered the Polish state to pay the teenager and her mother 61,000 euros (£49,000) in compensation.

Poland’s abortion law is among the strictest in Europe.

Terminations are only permitted in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother or foetus is in danger.”

Here is another story about a woman who was denied an abortion and has lost most of her eyesight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6470403.stm

“The European Court of Human Rights has awarded a Polish woman 25,000 euros ($33,000; £16,000) in damages after she was refused an abortion.

Alicja Tysiac’s eyesight worsened drastically after she had her third baby and she fears she may go blind.

The 35-year-old mother was refused an abortion despite warnings that having a baby could make her go blind.

In staunchly Catholic Poland, abortion is illegal unless the health of the mother or unborn child is at risk.

The Strasbourg court ruled that the mother of three’s human rights had been violated when she was denied an abortion on therapeutic grounds.
“

Mother Nature made females the default bagholder in case of unwanted pregnancy. I realize the law tries to rectify the inequity, but as a coworker likes to remind me, ‘Possession is 90% of the law.’ If an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the woman’s body is the one in possession of the fetus.

“Mother Nature made females the default bagholder in case of unwanted pregnancy.”

Agreed. And it should make women more cautious about engaging in intercourse.

But these examples are why I think the government should stay out of decisions early in pregnancy. I am fine with regulating it later on, especially after the fetus can survive on its own.

Housing Deflation =Housing Analyst

That’s really gross. Thanks for sharing.

Thank Biden for representing our nation so appropriately to the father of a hero.

to the father of a hero.

How’s he a hero? I mean it’s unfortunate and tragic death. Hero? Why?

He was ordered not to go help out at the consulate but he did it anyway and saved many lives but he lost his own later back at the annex. If that is not a hero, I don’t what it would take in your mind to be a hero.

How’s he a hero? I mean it’s unfortunate and tragic death. Hero? Why?

Wood asked permission to go to the outpost and defend the Americans there that were under attack from the terrorists that were hitting them with mortar fire, RPGs as well as setting the outpost on fire with diesel fuel.

After being told to not assist 3 times he disobeyed putting his job at risk and proceeded to the compound, climbing over the fence putting his life in jeopardy. As people and bodies were being recovered and brought to the Annex Wood provided cover from a roof top and Wood painted the mortar position so the C-130 could take out the attackers.

Wood died from mortar fire while saving American lives. A patriot / hero that died needlessly.

So I guess all those Marines that let themselves be captured, instead of starting a firefight in the middle of Tehran were a bunch of pussies.

So I guess all those Marines that let themselves be captured, instead of starting a firefight in the middle of Tehran were a bunch of pussies.

Those are your words, don’t put them in my mouth please.

Avoiding a firefight in the middle of a city is motivation to not fight.

In Benghazi this was not a concern, the firefight was started by the terrorist. Absorbing and not returning fire might be your idea of how real heroes behave but Obama’s re-election isn’t the primary directive.

With the mortar site painted collateral damage was not a big concern.

In this case it looks like the One is the pussie but since he lies about it ( how many times did he bring up the video when addressing the united nations? ) who can know until enough people speak the truth?

You are implying that these heroes that would not stand down and gave their lives saving Americans are less brave than others who prefer capture and it makes me think you would argue anything if it promotes the left and a free lunch.

Remember, New Yorkers…

with every sweep of the broom, with every swipe of ammonia, with every filled water bucket, with every check you write to make yourself as was…

…and no matter your level of discomfort and misery…

…others are now using you much in the same way people used those in New Orleans.

Remember. Never let a crisis go to waste.

working overtime to politicize a naturally-occurring event.

But you are wrong and you are spinning the reality. The immediate recovery and aid phase of a massive natural disaster are ALWAYS political events or in the least they are always composed mainly of government action.

This is why the right is freaking out and praying for political failure on Sandy. Because this natural disaster lays bare their self-serving feigned belief that government has no role in many things.

Now can you imagine if the “free-market” alone was left to clean up this mess the next few months? First of all, there would be no response because the infrastructure for response would not be there. Which private companies would invest billions on the ability to clean this up? None would because there would be “no money in it”. How could there be any money in a once-in-a-lifetime event?

The government has a role in many aspects of society that the “free-markets” can never address well. Sandy, exposing this fact today, a week before the election, is sending a chill down the right’s spine.

I rest my case.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Disaster focuses the community attention, Mac, it’s an organic thing bred deep into our collective DNA. (Notice I used “community” and “collective”?) It only becomes political (thus manipulable) in retrospect/viewed from the periphery.

I’m betting there’s not a voter over the age of 30 who’s not watching this unfold and asking themselves “How would a Republican (cough, Bush) administration have handled this?”

I’m betting there’s not a voter over the age of 30 who’s not watching this unfold and asking themselves “How would a Republican (cough, Bush) administration have handled this?”

It was a Democratic Mayor and a Democratic Governor who failed their constituents during Katrina. The failures of FEMA played a part, but the bottom line is the State is the first line of defense in any disaster and the Democrats who ran the city and the state failed. To blame Bush for the post-Katrina debacle is ridiculous without also blaming Blanco and Nagin, both Democrats.

“How would a Republican (cough, Bush) administration have handled this?”

Come to think of it, isn’t there a recent precedent for a similar disaster situation to the one at hand?

How did it work out for the incumbent party?

And tell us, Northeast, who is the titular head of the administration that oversees infrastructure funding for the state and local projects? More to the point, who is in charge of FEDERAL Emergency Management Agency which is charged with coordinating the emergency response to national disaster?

As I said, a Democratic Mayor, a Democratic Governor and a Republican appointee to a National post were to blame… but you don’t here the bleeding-heart liberals saying that. All you hear is “Blame Bush”.

The buck stops here. Where? Well, where ever it gains us the most political points.

“The buck stops here. Where?”

The Buck Stops Here

– President Harry S. Truman
(words from a sign on his desk in the White House)

You feel good now ??

Has nothing to do with how “I feel”….A Romney win will have zero impact on my life….Its what I see as the obvious…The Rove’s & the other right wing nut jobs that control the republican party ran “away” from Santorum & Perry knowing that they would get obliterated in a national election…So, their only shot was with etch-a-sketch…Even if we are hypocrites…WIN…Get Control…Nothing else matters…

So, like I said, if they don’t win with Romney, that party that wants to call themselves “republicans” are toast…

I am all about fairness and balance, but I have a strong bias against bullsh!t, such as your posts, for example.

No the parties are parasites, they will come back even stronger after a few years of hiatus. 2010 not suppose to happen. Romney not supposed to be neck-and-neck with Obama basically after 4 yrs after Bush. You see the pattern. In the same token, Dems are toast in current form if Obama loses.

Four more years of Obama will not dissolve the Republican party. More likely the opposite, JMO.

Four more years of Obama will not dissolve the Republican party. More likely the opposite, JMO.

I think so, too. But the fear is real and the likes of Akin and Murdock could be the next presidential candidate after basically standing up moderates like McSame and RMoney.

It all depends on what “is” is, Skye.

While I don’t share the same political beliefs as scdave, I believe him to be correct in his observation.

IMO, it won’t be long until Republicans outwardly and decidely ditch the neocon platform.

The neocon platform brought us both Bush and Obama. The Republicans I know believe that in many ways Bush = Obama and Obama = Bush.

IMO, it’s the same reason why old-line Democrats (i.e. “independents” are increasingly throwing their hat Romney’s way. There’s a perception that Obama = Bush.

I tend toward fiscal conservatism and social libertarianism…neocon “ism” runs counter to what I believe.

What I see happening on the Democrat/liberal side of the occasion is even more “neocon” than what I see from Republicans.

I’m hoping that Republicans become something more like The Constitution Party.

As far as Democrats/liberals, I have no idea what they are morphing into. It definitely appears socialist, which is even further along the “neocon” trajectory than what we are suffering through today. Even bigger spending and increasing losses of personal liberty.

Again, Bush = Obama and Obama = Bush.

Perhaps scdave will comment.

What I see happening on the Democrat/liberal side of the occasion is even more “neocon” than what I see from Republicans.

Hence the term, neocons. These are supposed to be former liberals but never really embraced conservatism, either.

Four more years of Obama will not dissolve the Republican party. More likely the opposite, JMO.

But the “angry white man’s” party IS dying out. The core of the Republican party is getting old and outnumbered. Even Pat Buchanan says so. It’s the demographics, the anger and the Republican Party’s failed policies.

Now that’s change I can believe in!

While I don’t share the same political beliefs as scdave ??

Oh, but yes you do;

I tend toward fiscal conservatism and social libertarianism…neocon “ism” runs counter to what I believe…

As do I….A simple question & answer session with me would clear it up…

By the way…I was a registered republican for 30 years right up to the year 2000…Re-registered independent because of Bush and voted for Gore…

Glad to hear it, scdave. Sometimes the best surprise is to learn one is wrong.

The past 12 years are really quite revealing. Neocon”ism” isn’t a political party. It’s a mindset. A generational mindset, IMO.

Tell that to the Palestinians.

“Four more years of Obama will not dissolve the Republican party. More likely the opposite, JMO.”

True dat. The political pendulum swings wider during two-term presidencies…

I agree, it won’t dissolve it. But as time marches on the GOP’s “base” will shrink.

+2 Colorado…Thats how I se it also…

How erudite!

What should one think about your moniker? That you’re an antagonistic, empty-headed, destructive academic?

Faster recognized academia for the sham it is, and said so. He said he was a former academic himself.

You have yet to recognize academia as the sham it is. It’s why you continue to spot the carpet every time Faster shows his face around here.

Perhaps that recognition will come when you come up with an original thought of your own, rather than hide behind the thinking of others who happen to support your views.

Preposterous you say! No, I say. I don’t think you could make it a week without citing a source to hide behind.

Faster recognized academia for the sham it is, and said so. He said he was a former academic himself.

LOL…Faster “said”. Faster says a lot of self-aggrandizing B.S..

Faster is a narcissist-sociopath IMO, who takes delight in damaged and weaker people’s suffering. (The mom and 6 year old daughter who lost her daddy, for one) That you admire Faster’s BS might say a lot about you MacBeth.

Personal attacks got Shakespeare’s Macbeth nowhere. They won’t work for you, either.

P.S.

“How erudite!”

Thank you — any time!

“…Faster is a narcissist-sociopath IMO…”

But he does it so well. And is redeemed by his sloppy love for tomatoes.

“And is redeemed by his sloppy love for tomatoes.”

I’m more than a bit concerned for him and anyone else reliant on the NYC public transit system.

I’m more than a bit concerned for him and anyone else reliant on the NYC public transit system.

Surely there’s no one in Manhattan with a better-stocked pantry than FPSS.

Why do you think that academia is a sham?

“Why do you think that academia is a sham?”

Convenient generalization…

I’m guilty as well; of course I know everyone who works on or near Wall Street is not a crook (right!?), although my posts some times suggest I believe otherwise.

“Maybe Christie. . .”

Curious, what size suit does Christie wear? Looks like enough material in there for at least two regular sized suits.

Great job Brownie!

If you’re talking about government programs, I don’t think that it’s accurate to say that health care has jumped ahead of hunger. I think that it is somewhat easier to get food stamps than Medicaid. Also, most (probably all) states have laws that allow for parents to lose custody of their kids if they don’t take care of them properly, which would include feeding them on regular basis.

Just like we defend the Islamic terrorists by not aiming at their mosques…we respect that and they gave us 9/11 libya and killing Americans in return.

But at the same time we respected the rights of the people to stay in their homes if they choose and defend them, inhabit them, or even just run around nekkid.

I’m not sure I follow you. Which “other guy”?

Also, bear in mind that two months before she spearheaded HP’s first ever layoff, Carly told everyone to be calm and reminded us about how HP never had to resort to layoffs in the past. Note that this was said while the Compaq acquisition was being negotiated.

They do.

Try and keep up, will you?

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_67655.htm

First sentence. Then entire first paragraph explaining it.

Let them pay for our military which allows them to exist in their current form and we’ll see how high a standard of living they have.

Common but false argument. Let’s look at the math. USA “paying for their military” is not that big of a deal. Scandinavia spends about 1.5% of their GDP on military and USA spends 5% of our GDP on the military. The 3.5% of difference in GDP spending is not a huge factor in Scandinavia’s success. Heck they save more than that by spending 11% of their GDP on universal health-care while the USA spends 18% of our GDP on our BS system that fails 1/3 of our population.

The largest contributor of funds and manpower to NATO is the US. Were the US to leave NATO, Europe would essentially be defenseless.

I’m keeping up just fine, thanks.

The 3.5% of difference in GDP spending is not a huge factor in Scandinavia’s success.

The 3.5% is not the cost of their defense.

The 3.5% is not the cost of their defense.

My point is that Scandinavia spending 1.5% and USA 5% on military is not a defining factor in Scandinavia’s high standard of living-and especially when looking at health-care bang for the buck which the USA does not get much of.

And typical is 3% and Q4 2012 will be UP once again.

Why continue with your misrepresentations and lies?

The data does not support your assertion that the vacancy rate is rising, especially since the homeowner vacancy rate (which I didn’t even address) is the lowest that it’s been since 2006.

And 3% vacancy for a market is remarkably low, not “typical”. If every unit in the entire market is vacant for only 1 month every 33 months (nearly 3 years), you get a 3% vacancy rate. Every landlord out there knows that this would be fantastic performance.

In the top 75 largest MSAs in the entire country, there are exactly 4 that have vacancy rates 3% or lower (SF, Oxnard/Ventura, Syracuse, Poughkeepsie).

And I haven’t even addressed your completely made up assertion that AZ’s population is falling.

“The data does not support your assertion that the vacancy rate is rising,”

Of course it does. Vacancy rates reversed course and began climbing in September.

And furthermore, rental vacancy rates are at multi decade highs.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7616/vacancym.jpg

You know……. using statistics to misrepresent the truth about housing seems to be one of your strong hands. Why?

You seem to be math challenged and like to mix apples/orange.

You posted the NATIONAL number, and it hasn’t been updated (it looks to be missing about a year of data, and the current number is 8.6%). We are talking about Arizona, which is at 11.1%, but NOT rising. It is down from the beginning of the year and the lowest reading since Q1 2008.

You say that the vacancy rate is rising…it is clearly WAY down from the worst of the recession, when the vacancy was nearly 19%.

I was simply drawing the contrast between the four bubble states. Three still have pretty high rental vacancy rates (over 10%). CA is nowhere close to a multi-decade high when it comes to vacancy rates at 5.2%, and 1.4%.

You seem to misrepresent the truth by entirely dismissing pre-bubble data.

The vacancy rate is clearly WAY up over long term trend.

You need to stop lying to the public Rental Watch.

Let’s review.

I said nothing about where Phoenix was relative to trend. I simply stated the data that was released today, comparing CA to the other three bubble state.

You took the opportunity to claim that the vacancy rate is rising in Phoenix.

It clearly is not.

You then posted a graph to the NATIONAL data that is lacking the last year of data to try to make you point. This has no relevance to what is happening in AZ.

For anyone who cares about what a long-term rental vacancy looks like in the US:

Average Rental Vacancy Rate in the US from 1956 through 2000 is 6.7%. Today, the US as a whole is at 8.6%. Too high? Absolutely. Double “normal” (as RAL claims below). Not a chance.

Will we move down to 6.7%? With the Fed subsidy of apartments via cheap Fannie/Freddie debt (which makes it easier to survive with higher vacancies), I’m not so sure, but we certainly could.

California is clearly not “high” at a rental vacancy rate of 5.2%–which was my point to begin with…

It’s good preparation for living on Mars.

Who wants to live somewhere where you can die if you get a flat tire and have to change it yourself 6 mos of the year?

The answer is 1) Midwesterners, who are happy be in a place where they never see snow and 2) Mexicans, who are happy to be in a first world country.