November 2, 2012

Neither Rational Nor Sane

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Homeowner Natalie Wong may never know for sure why her Bridle Path area home didn’t sell by auction as hoped on Sunday. About three hours into the auction, which also featured a selection of high-end handbags, jewelry, rugs and artwork, auctioneer Kashif Khan asked if there were any bidders in the crowd who were willing to offer at least $5 million for the property. No one responded. ‘I’m not upset because I was never really expecting anything,’ Wong said. ‘You have to try something different.’”

“‘This house is perfect for that first-time home buyer because it is move-in ready,’ says Mike Delrose about 32 Hermon St. in Belmont, Mass. Delrose is a realtor and gave us a tour of a three-bedroom Cape that’s been on the market a month. In typically pricey Belmont, the single woman selling the house has reduced the selling price from $550,000 to $525,000.”

“Delrose is advising his seller to keep her home on the market into the winter for serious buyers coming back into the market. He says a lot of people have had a look at this house already. Meanwhile, the owner is waiting for that first offer. But, as Mike Delrose noted as he showed us the master bedroom, prices are still dipping slightly, confusing potential sellers. ‘You know, the market’s getting better, but it’s not happening quick,’ he says.”

“Here was Chas Kaufmann’s life before the Great Recession: $28,000 in restaurant tabs in a year, cruises, house parties with fireworks. His Mr. Gutter business was booming in the Pennsylvania Poconos. The Hummer is gone, and he drives a 2005 pickup. He and his wife use space heaters in their elegant house and leave parts of it cold. Now: ‘We mainly shop at Sam’s Club and portion out our meals. We spend $4 to $5 a night on eating.’”

“Kaufmann saw it coming in the gutter trade, specifically when he started noticing that nearly all of his customers’ checks were drawn on home equity credit lines. ‘How long do you think this is going to last?’ he recalled asking his wife. ‘People were buying clothes, putting in in-ground pools, putting gutters up where they didn’t need to be replaced. I was putting gutters up when people didn’t need gutters. I would tell them. But they wanted to change the colors. You ride by those houses now and they either have three feet of grass or the windows are boarded up.’”

“Minnesota’s home prices are still too low for some homeowners who had hoped to sell by now. Nearly a quarter of homeowners are underwater on their mortgages, meaning they owe more than their homes are worth, according to CoreLogic. David Shuler and his wife bought a townhome in Golden Valley in 2006 for just over $300,000. In 2009, they took advantage of the downturn and bought a single family home in Bloomington. Shuler said they can’t sell the townhome — it’s probably worth a third less now. He and his wife are renting it out, but he said they probably won’t come out ahead in the end.”

“‘I think we kind of knew this could have happened,’ Shuler said. ‘I don’t think housing is something people are going to look at as an investment going forward.’”

“A new report by RealtyTrac reveals that California cities had the seven highest metro foreclosure rates in the nation during the third quarter, despite heavy declines in all of those communities from a year ago. The Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario area ranked highest among large metro areas. David Tovar, a Realtor in Hacienda Heights, said he’s still seeing a lot of foreclosures. And a significant number of those properties are being snatched up by investors.”

“Tovar said banks learned the hard way that putting all of the foreclosed properties on the market at once would bring overall prices down too much. ‘They figured, let’s portion them out for a while,’ he said.”

“Several experts are looking for metro Phoenix home prices to climb more than 10 percent annually during the next three years. ‘I would say that in the next five to seven years, we will see (home) prices back to levels we saw in 2005,’ said Matt Widdows, CEO of Arizona’s largest residential-real-estate brokerage, HomeSmart. ‘Many (Phoenix-area) homes dropped to one-third of their value in 2005, and I have no doubt that we will be right back to those levels.’”

“An unknown for the housing market is what the handful of large investors who are buying thousands of homes in metro Phoenix plan to do with them. If they decide to sell around the same time, the supply of homes could jump, dampening prices. Industry experts said that’s unlikely to happen, at least in the short term.”

“We can only hope that Adelaide Brighton managing director Mark Chellew was being conservative when he suggested last week that residential property booms in Australia were a thing of the past. Housing is a central plank to Australia’s long-term economic success.”

“At its October meeting the Reserve Bank of Australia decided to cut interest rates by 25 basis points. The big unknown from all this is whether the much-maligned housing industry is able to fill the void on the economic horizon. The argument this time around is that Australian households are simply too indebted to plunge into another housing cycle.”

“There are three fundamental ways of increasing housing affordability. First, house prices could drop significantly. This is a disastrous result because it creates financial pressures on the entire financial community. Second, wages could skyrocket, producing unacceptable increases in inflation. Finally, interest rates could fall, reducing the cost of borrowing. This is the most acceptable path, and the only one the RBA has control over. One year into a rate-cutting cycle, housing in Australia is the most affordable in eight years, but there are only tentative signs that this tactic to raise housing from its slumber is working. The broader community is now conditioned to the process of our banks passing on only about 75 per cent of the RBA cuts to customers. This may mean the RBA just has to keep cutting until there are signs housing is affordable.”

“The various quantitative easings (QEs) and other stimulus programs created by the US Federal Reserve together with the loose monetary policy in just about every country have had a much broader effect than finally reviving the anemic US market. Global central banks’ policy of encouraging asset appreciation has pushed stocks, currencies and real estate markets sharply higher.”

“Real estate markets in many countries have risen dramatically in the past few years, some to levels that are neither rational nor sane. In Hong Kong house prices have doubled and have been labelled ’seriously disconnected’ from the slowing economy by a high government official. Singapore’s real estate has also risen by 56% from 2009.”

“In China house prices have risen over 250% since 2009. Brazil is another hot market. Real estate markets have risen 90% since 2009. Prices are also high in India where prices have also risen over 250% in the past ten years.”

“The US housing bubble was created by a rise of about 85% in six years from 2000 to 2006. After that the market fell 36%. According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), home prices are still falling in 25 countries of the 54 tracked by the IMF. Leading the way was Ireland followed by the usual suspects: Greece, Portugal and Spain.”

“William White was the head of research at the Bank of Canada, before leading research departments at the Bank for International Settlements and the OECD. The essence of White’s latest paper, Ultra-Easy Monetary Policy and the Law of Unintended Consequences, is that central banks should call a ceasefire, not due to a lack of ammunition, but because the bombardment from easy-money policies is causing more ‘friendly fire’ casualties to their own troops than it is inflicting on the enemy.”

“The undesirable effects of ultra-easy monetary policy are aptly summarized: ‘They create malinvestments in the real economy, threaten the health of financial institutions and the functioning of financial markets, constrain the ‘independent’ pursuit of price stability by central banks, encourage governments to refrain from confronting sovereign-debt problems in a timely way, and redistribute income and wages in a highly regressive fashion.’”

“The distorting effects of persistently low interest rates can be seen in everyday life. They threaten the health of financial institutions by encouraging over-investment in markets like housing in Canada, which could go sour, and cause investment income to plummet. Low interest rates prevent the destruction of poor investments needed to free up resources. Low interest rates encourage governments to go massively into debt, as we are seeing in the U.S. and Europe. They penalize savers and investors in growth companies, while rewarding debtors and investors in staid dividend-paying companies, the very opposite of the incentives that economics says maximize long-term growth.”

“White’s conclusion is that policy-makers, and ultimately society, should tolerate more slowdowns or even mild recessions.”

“A friend in Beijing was planning his wedding when his fiancee broke up with him because, despite his best efforts, he failed to buy an apartment for them. My friend is a teacher who makes decent money. He shared an advertisement slogan from a real estate company with me: ‘Marriage without housing is sexual harassment.’ ‘Whenever I saw it on the subway or on a bill board, I was sweating and hoping my fiancee didn’t see it. Now I know she did,’ he said.’

“Another friend in Shanghai is planning her divorce. She is studying for her PhD and has no job. Her husband has been the sole breadwinner in the family. But she proposed the divorce. While she is mourning her failed marriage, she said she is not worried about making ends meet as a single mom for a three-year-old. ‘I bought this apartment before the marriage. So it will still be mine afterward. I have property,’ she said.”

“And then, there is my cousin Xiang, who has a new baby. Xiang makes 6,000 yuan ($960) per month. He is thinking of buying an apartment in a neighborhood that has a good school. It will cost 1 million yuan ($160,000). His savings, plus the maximum mortgage he could get from the bank, won’t cover half of the price. He has to borrow 600,000 yuan through high interest rate private loans.”

“When he laid out these figures to me, I was shocked. It sounds like the perfect formula for a foreclosure train crash. But he said: ‘I have to. I don’t want to fail my son. I want to give him the best education possible.’”

“An overheated real estate market can easily drive people to make insane decisions. People seem to have even invented a new value system where housing is the new gold standard. Morality, like the advertising slogan, love, like the aborted wedding, probability of survival, like the divorcee weighing her future, parenting, like the plight of the desperate young father, and even the value of money itself are all measured against the new values.”

“Under such a system, housing is largely considered a fountain of pleasure. But in reality, it is more a source of gloom. Those who don’t have it are haunted by the high prices and those who do by the possibility of a bubble bursting. Double unhappiness.”




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62 Comments »

Comment by Dave
2012-11-02 06:41:34

I’m still waiting for one. Just one reporter to ask these people what they spent their home equity loans on. Had to stop watching TV because I would find myself screaming at the screen like a loon.

Comment by Bad Andy
2012-11-02 13:05:06

They spent it only on the basic necessities of life:

- Vacation
- Flat Screen TV’s
- Brand New SUV’s
- Granite
- Stainless

And in warm weather states:
- Boats
- Motorcycles
- ATV’s

Comment by Dave
2012-11-02 17:00:19

And that entitles them to bitch about how much their house payment is?

I’m sorry, I know you all get it too. Just venting. In an apartment.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 06:49:42

The Money Life writer says:

‘On a slightly larger scale are two commodities countries, Australia and Canada. The commodities these countries produce have benefitted from both the central bank inflation and demand from China. The benefit is reflected in their real estate markets…If these bubbles deflate there would certainly be an impact, but these are still relatively small markets, unlikely to cause problems in the global economy. Also they are still rising, so any collapse might take a bit longer. This may not be true for three much larger markets: India, Brazil and China.’

If they deflate? They may be relatively small, but the thing to realize is, big and small, they will all deflate. And many that weren’t even mentioned:

‘Mortgage volume data indicated a return of buyers to the housing market, and this data in and of itself may create expectations of continued price increases. If these expectations are fulfilled, a price bubble may develop in the housing market,” states the Bank of Israel in its latest review “Recent Economic Developments - May to August 2012″.

‘For years, the Bank of Israel has avoided using the phrase “real estate bubble”. According to the Central Bureau of Statistics, home prices rose 1% over the past year, and rose by 65% between May 2007 and July 2012. However, the Bank of Israel warns that it is possible that homebuyers believe that prices will not fall…It admits, “Home prices in Israel are at historically high levels”, and that the average long-term home price is “high relative to other countries”. In 2011, eight years of average gross salaries were needed to buy a home in Israel.’

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000790065&fid=1725

Comment by In Colorado
2012-11-02 07:10:41

In 2011, eight years of average gross salaries were needed to buy a home in Israel.’

In a country where just about every neighboring nation wants to destroy it.

Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-11-02 11:02:42

It’s the views. Think of it. SCud missiles flying by at night, a stream of light from the fusilage.
You can’t get those views just anywhere, ya know.

Comment by rms
2012-11-02 18:12:25

And buses with exploding passengers!

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Comment by ahansen
2012-11-02 22:50:53

Both Australia and Canada (as well as Mexico, Africa, and S. America) serve as significant offshore shelters for Chinese oligarchs. In fact, any coastal real estate in the Pacific Rim is propped by capital secreted out of PRC. Ironic inasmuch as US corporate funds laundered via Chinese industry have returned to spawn in the very regions from whence they originated.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2012-11-02 07:33:00

“Here was Chas Kaufmann’s life before the Great Recession: $28,000 in restaurant tabs in a year, cruises, house parties with fireworks. His Mr. Gutter business was booming in the Pennsylvania Poconos ??

There it is right there…Unemployment rate was basically zero because anybody who wanted to work and make great money could…

I remember these times well….You needed to go begging to get even a plumber to come fix something…For smaller jobs they would not even come look at it without a minimum charge fee…And, don’t you dare question the price to do the work because if you did they would walk…It was pretty heady days for most at least around here but I suppose everywhere…

And all this money goosed everything from Hummers to Homes…That was until Ka-Boom in September 2008…Thats when the tide went out and everyone was no longer “awash” in easy availability to earn or borrow money…

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 07:55:24

‘$28,000 in restaurant tabs in a year’

This from one gutter installer. There’s no replacing this in the economy. Add up all the other construction trades in the Poconos; we’re talking many millions in spending. Then imagine every other region in the country.

Comment by scdave
2012-11-02 08:01:59

Thats right Ben….From Podunk to the major metros…It was a false economy fueled by reckless policy, oversight and outright fraud…

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 08:36:16

‘From Podunk to the major metros’

From every city in China, Australia, India, Canada and more; this is what I don’t think is being contemplated. If these bubbles represent billions of bad decisions, all at around the same time, what’s gonna happen when it falls apart?

‘She is studying for her PhD and has no job…she said she is not worried about making ends meet as a single mom for a three-year-old. ‘I bought this apartment before the marriage. So it will still be mine afterward. I have property’

‘His savings, plus the maximum mortgage he could get from the bank, won’t cover half of the price. He has to borrow 600,000 yuan through high interest rate private loans. When he laid out these figures to me, I was shocked. It sounds like the perfect formula for a foreclosure train crash. But he said: ‘I have to.’

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Comment by scdave
2012-11-02 08:46:16

From every city in China, Australia, India, Canada ??

Excellent point Ben….Its a world wide Bubble…

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 08:57:28

Yes, and in many parts of the world, prices are much more unsustainable than the US:

‘In Hong Kong house prices have doubled…Singapore’s real estate has also risen by 56% from 2009. In China house prices have risen over 250% since 2009. Brazil…markets have risen 90% since 2009. Prices are also high in India where prices have also risen over 250% in the past ten years’

When you stop and think about it, it’s easier to list the countries that haven’t seen these increases. Did you know the biggest increase last year was South Africa? Remember the condos in Dubai? The east European boom, Moscow, Panama, Costa Rica, Indonesia. There’s a freaking bubble in Kabul!

Now what happens when this plays out in all these places:

‘The Hummer is gone, and he drives a 2005 pickup. He and his wife use space heaters in their elegant house and leave parts of it cold. Now: ‘We mainly shop at Sam’s Club and portion out our meals. We spend $4 to $5 a night on eating’

 
Comment by scdave
2012-11-02 09:30:22

Thats how it plays out for the Gutter Man….How does it play out for countries who basically did the same thing….Borrowed & Spent way beyond their means and are now saddled with unserviceable debt ??

Maybe we are seeing the first scene in the broadway play “The Gutter Man Cometh In All Sizes” with Greece, Portugal & Spain….

 
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-11-02 11:00:57

Xiang is bonkers. China is toast.

The gutter man saw it coming. He should have been socking away that 28K in restaurant bills. The Hummer was probably a write off. It could have been considered part of his marketing budget. For home maintenance trades people, their truck is like a businessman’s suit. It is what the customer sees. He might have been better off with a used late-model pickup, but some of those are also insanely priced.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 11:07:21

‘He should have been socking away that 28K’

That’s just over 76 bucks a day. I don’t think I could even do that; I get sick of restaurant food after awhile.

 
Comment by oxide
2012-11-02 11:34:31

Buying lots of rounds on the house, no doubt. He was so busy partying I wonder when he had the time or sobriety to install actual gutters.

 
Comment by Spook
2012-11-02 12:59:45

He used Manuel labor for that part.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-11-02 13:29:15

For home maintenance trades people, their truck is like a businessman’s suit.

A few years ago I got some bids to have my house painted. The guys in the shiny F-350’s bid as much as $7000. In the end a guy with a beater, compact truck won my business. He bid was $3000.

They might consider it their “suit”, but from what I have learned “fancy truck” == “over priced”.

 
Comment by Weed Wacker
2012-11-02 13:38:42

I will eat out on occasion for the social aspect. But in general I don’t trust other people making my food. There is a continuous bit on the local news where they go to area restaurants and rate them for cleanliness practices. Watch that a couple of times and you may be too disgusted to ever eat out again.

 
Comment by Dale
2012-11-03 03:44:29

“Manuel labor”

BwaaaaHaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaa……… good one.

 
 
Comment by b-hamster
2012-11-02 08:40:22

I recall 911 fueling the boom. Everyone wanted to get out of the city and bring their families up in a safer environment. My friend worked for the telephone company there and could go off endlessly about the shoddy construction of these homes in their arrogant owners. And at this point selling your home in NJ and taking the exact same bluerpints and building for half the coast in PA. And that’s where all the builders were, so to get some simple work done on a home was virtually impossible.

Being from there, I heard endless stories from friends and families about the Poconos.

Sounds like his life now is in the gutter.

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Comment by oxide
2012-11-02 09:15:04

What struck me was the hypocrisy and doublethink from the gutter installer. He was browbeating HELOC homeowners for unnecessarily wanting to change gutter colors, yet he himself couldn’t live without the party fireworks. And he knew it was going to come to an end, but he didn’t think enough to sell out in time. :roll:

Comment by scdave
2012-11-02 09:38:54

He was browbeating HELOC homeowners for unnecessarily wanting to change gutter colors ??

I went back and read those two paragraphs again…I did not come away as he was brow beating but more that people were spending money like drunken sailors, including himself…

This is where he made his mistake;

‘How long do you think this is going to last ?’ he recalled asking his wife….

If you were asking that question Mr. Gutter Man, then you knew inherently that it was not sustainable…You should have made your adjustment right then & there…

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Comment by ahansen
2012-11-02 22:56:59

With all due respect, how hard is it to set a ladder, put on a pair of gloves, and clean out your own damned rain gutters?

How could someone make a living at this, let alone a business?

 
Comment by Romney's Lies
2012-11-03 00:00:52

That’s like asking “how hard is it to mow your own lawn?”, yet companies make a fortune providing the service the country over.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by A Housing Pimps Nightmare
2012-11-02 08:16:04

He says a lot of people have had a look at this house already. Meanwhile, the owner is waiting for that first offer. But, as Mike Delrose noted as he showed us the master bedroom, prices are still dipping slightly, confusing potential sellers. ‘You know, the market’s getting better, but it’s not happening quick,’ he says.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does anyone know what this irrational yapping means?

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-11-02 08:53:09

I interpreted it as “things are getting worse, but I’m concerned that they’re not getting better faster”.

 
 
Comment by Housing Is A Massive Loss At Current Prices
2012-11-02 08:20:31

In 2009, they took advantage of the downturn and bought a single family home in Bloomington. Shuler said they can’t sell the townhome — it’s probably worth a third less now.

They were taken advantage of. Like all the other suckers who’ve bought since 2009.

It’s worth a third less from 2009-2012. It will be halved or more by 2015.

Get what you can get for your house today because it’s going to be much much less tomorrow for many many years to come.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 09:24:24

“…auctioneer Kashif Khan asked if there were any bidders in the crowd who were willing to offer at least $5 million for the property. No one responded. ‘I’m not upset because I was never really expecting anything,’ Wong said. ‘You have to try something different.’”

With a little follow-through, Wong’s Dutch auction sale will succeed:

Do I hear $4.5 million?
$4 million?
$3.5 million?
$3 million?
$2.5 million?

Sold to the man who is willing to pony up $2.5 million to buy an overpriced property!

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-11-02 10:05:52

“‘This house is perfect for that first-time home buyer because it is move-in ready,’ says Mike Delrose about 32 Hermon St. in Belmont, Mass. Delrose is a realtor and gave us a tour of a three-bedroom Cape that’s been on the market a month. In typically pricey Belmont, the single woman selling the house has reduced the selling price from $550,000 to $525,000.”

500K is a started home? For who? Lawyers and doctors?

Comment by snake charmer
2012-11-02 13:55:02

I remember a conversation in 2005 when a co-worker said that a married couple he knew, two physicians who lived in San Francisco, could not afford to buy a house. I piped up “when two doctors can’t afford a house, something is seriously wrong.” The looks I got told me, once again, that I was the idiot. Someone said “everybody wants to live there.”

 
2012-11-02 14:43:57

I’m perpetually amazed. People throw around these $500K numbers like it were candy.

How may people can write a $5K check tomorrow morning, and have it clear?

In 2006, I was in Maine on vacation, and having a very nice sandwich for lunch. It was a tiny place so you can’t help overhearing the conversations around you.

This woman was on the phone with what sounded like her mother. She needed her mother to deposit $20 into her account. I kid you not. And the mother was arguing about the money.

Meanwhile, the couple was on vacation in Maine! And they didn’t have a spare $20 to cover some bills.

You can’t make this stuff up. It’s that unbelievable.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2012-11-02 17:31:14

“I’m perpetually amazed. People throw around these $500K numbers like it were candy.”

BINGO!!!!!!!!

I’ve stated the same over and over here for years.

There is a simple reason why they do this. It’s the very same reason people overpay for housing by 200-300%.

The reason? People don’t understand the value of a dollar. It really is that simple.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:44:53

It’s also that someone out there is still trying to make loans north of $500K to people who probably will never manage to repay the money.

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Comment by rms
2012-11-02 21:54:22

You’re bringing us down with this negative chit. . .repay the money?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Patrick
2012-11-02 10:24:39

‘They create malinvestments in the real economy, threaten the health of financial institutions and the functioning of financial markets, constrain the ‘independent’ pursuit of price stability by central banks, encourage governments to refrain from confronting sovereign-debt problems in a timely way, and redistribute income and wages in a highly regressive fashion.’”

” - - the bombardment from easy-money policies is causing more ‘friendly fire’ casualties to their own troops than it is inflicting on the enemy.”

I hope BB gets canned -

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 10:41:43

And replaced by whom? (If you are of the “End the Fed” persuasion, the question becomes “to be replaced by what”?)

2012-11-02 14:46:17

Free market for interest rates.

Will never happen though. Nice thought experiment anyway.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:45:58

How would you regulate the money supply to allow the market to set the price of money (aka the interest rate)?

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Comment by Patrick
2012-11-03 07:25:59

That is the REAL point. You would not have to.

The Fed is doing two things - (1) pegging interest rates and (2) trying to massage M1 and M2.

With a federally fixed supply of fiat, interest rates and velocities will adjust to market conditions.

Under current conditions, banks would be initially devastated, but it would give them a better chance at adjusting their leverage down to their target 18.

BB is distorting the market so badly, it will take the rest of this generation and probably more to get this critical adjustment.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by brother_jimmy
2012-11-02 10:34:52

Phoenix housing prices are in another bubble. Median prices up 30% YOY, doesn’t mean that houses are worth more, just that the lower end homes have all been sold and now the expensive ones are left. If I could show a screenshot from Zillow from 1 mile around my home in Scottsdale you would be amazed at how many have changed hands in the last 12 months. At least 1/3 of the homes have.

Flippers are testing how high the market will go right now - putting homes for sale at 100k higher than they bought them for last year with some renovations. I’m seeing a lot more come back on the market from “contingent” to “active”, as well as asking prices coming back down too. One example - on market for 275k, off market, relisted at 239k. Still active 6 weeks later.

I just don’t see how prices can rise from here absent the non-occuring income gains.

Comment by AnonyRuss
2012-11-02 11:08:49

” I’m seeing a lot more come back on the market from “contingent” to “active”, as well as asking prices coming back down too.”

One thing that I follow are the FHA-foreclosed listings (HUD) in a few suburban Phoenix zip codes. It is a small sample, but the return of previously under contract to active has gone from virtually zero to about 30 to 40%. I will not try to extrapolate some major trend from that; I will leave that sort of a thing to the REIC.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 11:09:56

I’ve even seen foreclosure purchasers who do nothing to the house and re-list it. They don’t even take the bank stickers off the door.

Comment by brother_jimmy
2012-11-02 11:25:37

I looked at one in Mesa last week. they painted the inside walls but completely neglected the peeling paint on the outside eaves or the fence our back that would collapse with a hit from a thrown baseball. or the single pane windows that id be surprised if they kept out the rain.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-11-02 11:39:02

I just don’t see how prices can rise from here absent the non-occuring income gains.

Preach it, brother_jimmy! And we’re having ourselves a student housing bubble down here in Tucson.

 
Comment by cactus
2012-11-02 17:14:35

I’m seeing a lot more come back on the market from “contingent” to “active”, as well as asking prices coming back down too. One example - on market for 275k, off market, relisted at 239k. Still active 6 weeks later.”

I have seen a little of that as well in 93021

It’s usually a dramatic price increase on a flip. So does it not apraise high enough or do the buyers just back out ?

I was told this past summer buyers were locking up multiple homes with offers and taking their pick a little later on or withdrawing all offers if they couldn’t get a flip with profit.

And they seem to always get their money back as they use outragous home inspection reports to back out of the deal.

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 17:37:38

‘buyers were locking up multiple homes with offers and taking their pick a little later on or withdrawing all offers’

Yeah, what happens is they put in multiple offers, then during the inspection period decide which ones they want. It’s always easy to get out of a deal by ‘finding’ some defects in the inspection and demanding it be fixed.

HUD decided to keep the escrow money as a result on the REO’s it is selling. This is a way to penalize people for just what you are describing. However, I’m not aware of any other lender doing this for REO’s. And it would be up to individual sellers to put this in a contract to avoid.

Overall, this kind of bidding is a sign of speculation. They are just trying to block other speculators from getting it.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:48:23

It also gives the guy with nine contracts the opportunity to inspect all nine and find the best pick, while blocking rival bidders from making offers.

Pretty good strategy so long as there is no problem cancelling eight of the nine contracts…

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Comment by Ben Jones
2012-11-02 20:08:05

’so long as there is no problem cancelling eight of the nine contracts’

This is standard procedure. Many UHS facilitate this practice.

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2012-11-03 00:43:59

“This is standard procedure.”

Perhaps this is an indication we are still in a buyers’ market. Would sellers otherwise put up with this kind of crap without figuring out a way to put a stop to it?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2012-11-02 10:57:21

“Several experts are looking for metro Phoenix home prices to climb more than 10 percent annually during the next three years. ‘I would say that in the next five to seven years, we will see (home) prices back to levels we saw in 2005,’ said Matt Widdows, CEO of Arizona’s largest residential-real-estate brokerage, HomeSmart. ‘Many (Phoenix-area) homes dropped to one-third of their value in 2005, and I have no doubt that we will be right back to those levels.’”

He is predicting full-scale peak bubble era 2005 prices in PHX. The prices when people were camping out at subdivision sales offices and outer suburbs were seeing house prices so far out of the realm of reality that there sales prices are little more than a historical curiosity displayed on Zillow graphs. 2005, the year before the now-foreclosed upon Greg Swann blogged his infamous “21 reasons to bank on the Phoenix real estate market” (Brown Shirts, flying monkeys) as inventory was swelling and the loan failures were just starting to build up.

I will not pretend that the reduction of foreclosed housing inventory and the investor purchasing have not moved prices higher in 2012. So, we take double-digit increases and then assume that as an annual thing moving forward in perpetuity. Fascinating.

Comment by brother_jimmy
2012-11-02 11:32:20

Absolutely prices are higher this year. I question whether these gains will stick, much less improvement from here.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-11-02 13:03:40

“My friend is a teacher who makes decent money. He shared an advertisement slogan from a real estate company with me: ‘Marriage without housing is sexual harassment.’ ‘Whenever I saw it on the subway or on a bill board, I was sweating and hoping my fiancee didn’t see it. Now I know she did,’ he said.’”
______________________________/

And I thought the “Suzanne researched this” advertisement from NAR was bad. Presumably the man’s fiancee will now be betrothed to someone willing to commit to a high-interest private loan in order to buy an utterly forgettable shoddy apartment, or engage in real estate speculation. Hasn’t China seen a spate of suicides under these exact circumstances?

I’ve written here about the failure of democratic government in this century, but China is failing too. Our failures are more embarrassing, but their failures will be more dramatic, because the entire edifice of modernity wasn’t that strong to begin with.

Comment by jbunniii
2012-11-02 13:52:50

Fortunately, one can rent housing.

Comment by Lemming with an innertube
2012-11-02 17:53:03

“If it flys, floats or fornicates, always rent it.” - Felix Dennis publisher (Maxim, PC World and others), poet and philanthropist.

 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:28:09

‘I was putting gutters up when people didn’t need gutters. I would tell them. But they wanted to change the colors. You ride by those houses now and they either have three feet of grass or the windows are boarded up.’

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:31:24

“Tovar said banks learned the hard way that putting all of the foreclosed properties on the market at once would bring overall prices down too much. ‘They figured, let’s portion them out for a while,’ he said.”

Is it legal for banks to get together and agree on these practices?

Or would that constitute price fixing?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:37:25

If banks agreed to hold foreclosures off the market in order to prop up home prices, wouldn’t that constitute illegal uncompetitive business practice?

The Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890 (15 U.S.C.A. §§ 1 et seq.), the first and most significant of the U.S. antitrust laws, was signed into law by President Benjamin Harrison and is named after its primary supporter, Ohio Senator John Sherman.

The prevailing economic theory supporting antitrust laws in the United States is that the public is best served by free competition in trade and industry. When businesses fairly compete for the consumer’s dollar, the quality of products and services increases while the prices decrease. However, many businesses would rather dictate the price, quantity, and quality of the goods that they produce, without having to compete for consumers. Some businesses have tried to eliminate competition through illegal means, such as fixing prices and assigning exclusive territories to different competitors within an industry. Antitrust laws seek to eliminate such illegal behavior and promote free and fair marketplace competition.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-11-02 19:43:28

Maybe it’s only price fixing if the little people do it?

 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-11-02 19:42:20

“There are three fundamental ways of increasing housing affordability. First, house prices could drop significantly. This is a disastrous result because it creates financial pressures on the entire financial community. Second, wages could skyrocket, producing unacceptable increases in inflation. Finally, interest rates could fall, reducing the cost of borrowing. This is the most acceptable path, and the only one the RBA has control over.”

Is this conclusion based in economic theory, or is it considered a matter of consensus because western nation central bankers all around the planet often repeat this opinion in the MSM?

One thing seems certain: Artificially suppressed interest rates will eventually lead to inflation followed by much higher interest rates.

 
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