The Housing Bubble

LOL…

Whichever candidate is against it because he believes the extra hour of daylight burns the grass…

Romney and the Republicans benefit from this time change because America just fell back.

bumpersticker in fallbrook,ca :
“you may not realize it, but goldman-sachs has already won the election”.

I would proudly display one of those. Time for a Google search.

Not bad, but my bumper sticker would say this:

“You may not realize it, but the Government has already won the election.”

People appear to have forgotten that the Cabinet already has former Goldman employees aboard.

Hurricane María del Rosario Mercedes Pilar Martínez Molina Baeza

aka: Charo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charo

Hurricane “Fo shizzzle”

No not unhinged or mean just reality…you see Rio its never a Lithuanian, a Greek, a Vietnamese, Haitians, or even an African tribe that causes the looting, its a specific group and we all have avoided the issue for years, but Ohbewanna has made it perfectly clear he supports Deadbeats and looters….even John Corzine….do you know who he stole money from??? Farmers…farmers who hedged their crops and now cant deliver or get cash to buy seeds….lots of hurt out there….but never reported.

Staten Islanders Offer Assistance To One Another As Recovery From Sandy Continues

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/04/staten-islanders-offer-assistance-to-one-another-as-recovery-from-sandy-continues/

And people in far rockaway coney island are looting…study the mentality

IMO, the mentality comes from those who don’t understand the concept of money and the sweat it takes to earn and save it.

This includes welfare/entitlement cheats and queens.

This also includes well-healed, born-into-wealth elitists.

Neither has any clue about money except that it comes in the mail, on a card or through momma and dadda’s wallets and credit accounts. Both parties focus on getting the most out of their respective “systems”.

Knowing very little about how to get things done, both go haywire at times of crisis. They riot, loot, destroy properties and hurt people.

Doubt me? Ponder Los Angeles/Rodney King and New York City today. Then think about what happens after a sports team wins the big enchalata. Riots, flipped cars, drunken debauchery. Often by wealthy kids.

The mentality of both ends is predictable.

It is hard for me to understand when you are calling names…
I never heard you guys talk about looting in Wall street by well known ethnic group (Medoff’s cousins) because it is poiticaly incorrect they are looting billions of $$$, those black guys have no chance to do that, for generations you white guys kept them in ghettos…Yes you don’t want to be called antisemitic…

I agree Galyen why isn’t John Corzine in jail?

But its the ignorant violence people wont tolerate. looting rioting, no matter what color, and the gimme gimme gimme mindset,with nothing in return.

Thats why if you want welfare/public assistance you need to sit in class 25 hours a week and learn English….let them make their own choice as to which language they will speak…No English No ebt card…

Thanks Spook…it ’s just Ohbama’s legacy is the death of political correctness and i am in the front of the pack and I expect to take the hits.

Please aNYCdj, your whole 1% of “working” rich are on Welfare last 30 or more years, before Obama came to power, the sucked up whole middle class in this country, all their belongings and you are talking about welfare recipients of whom most of are the people who were in middle class hard working people… Uncle Sam throws pice of bone to them to keep them quiet , when those big pockets are paying 14% taxes for their multimillion incomes … like your own candidate to President.

As near as I can tell, John Corzine/someone important at his former company isn’t in jail because the company hired lawyers for EVERYONE and made sure that nobody turned on the person or persons really responsible. That meant that the prosecutors have to rely on only electronic and paper records to figure out what happened. If they can’t find a smoking memo or e-mail or meeting minutes or whatever, they can’t do anything. You can’t just say that “at least one of the following 30 people must have done something illegal so we are going to jail all of them.” As long as no one talks, everyone could possibly walk. If they find the proof on even one person, you could use that to start the process. Without it, there is no leverage.

This is an interesting point, having no one talk and then everyone walks.

An example of this happened in DC a few years ago. An Asian man was thrill-killed by a prominent gay couple/threesome. They were obviously wildly guilty, as their actions afterwards indicated, but they all refused to cooperate with the police, and the prosecutors could not put together an effective case. They all walked.

A surprisingly effective strategy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_Eric_Wone

Also - Corzine is a big fish in a heavily crony-fied system. Look at it this way: You steal office supplies. A security guard catches you. But you’re the son of the president of the company. The head of security is best buddies with your dad. As a result, nothing is going to happen to you.

You = Corzine.
President of company = Obama
Head of security = Holder.

You know those pardons governors and presidents issue the last few hours they’re in office? Those are typically the nasty ones. The grotesque ones. The indefensible ones. Schwarzenegger and Barbour pardoned murderers. Bush and Clinton pardoned some distasteful characters. Those are the favors to family and good friends. Politicians don’t gather power to let it go to waste.

My candidate???? I’m voting for Gary Johnson throwing my vote away …Americans are Wussies dont have the guts to even think, let alone think outside the box…its a sham race…Ohbewanna is honest about supporting deadbeats and criminals….

Again can you do Math? we are taxed like cray look at the taxes and fees on your phone bill….ConEd pays huge real estate taxes that get passed on to us…someone estimated 17% of our electric bill is real estate taxes….so rich people pay those taxes on their 5000 sq ft McMansions too…

I think MLK would be ashamed of OH for making race relations worse…the incredible vile black racism that was exposed after travyon was inexcusable.

when those big pockets are paying 14% taxes for their multimillion incomes … like your own candidate to President.

can you do Math? we are taxed like cray look at the taxes and fees on your phone bill…ashamed of OH

I know Dude, Obama raised my phone bill.

Mr. aNYCdj, I assume Mr, Garry Johnson finally correct Obama,s mistake and tax big pockets at least by 50% and Welfare system for them and for big companies. I have to assure you my math is not bad, I learned it in XSoviet Union and it is in my opinion was better then what you learned in U.S. I make around 80 grant and pay around 30% and Mr. Garry Johnson probably 15%. I use cheap cell phone and don’t pay much of a taxes on my phone like you do.I also, like big pockets, pay tax for my properties but I and many of middle class working class, pay twice more in taxes then your beloved “hard working” pigs…they are the same as now days Oligarkhs in Russia…

“I know Dude, Obama raised my phone bill.”

He did indeed. Now go rub one out before the thought leaves your head.

finest medical care…..three hots and a cot.

You know America’s getting wacked when we start getting jealous of prisoner’s health-care and shelter.

The French are not jealous of French prisoner’s health-care. Why? Because health-care in France is a right, not a luxury of the rich or those who won the job lottery.

You know America’s getting wacked when we start getting jealous of prisoner’s health-care and shelter.

Such societal dysfunction is lost on half of the country.

not a luxury of the rich or those who won the job lottery

My wife is having some minor surgery soon. The lady who checked on our insurance marveled at our coverage (my employer is stingy with the pay raises, but we do get good insurance). I did indeed feel like a lottery winner, especially since most people we know are on high deductible plans.

That said, I just found out that I’ll have to pay $50 more per month next year for our coverage. That’s not so bad by itself, by the SS tax holiday will probably end next year, and the bush tax cuts too. So some belt tightening will be in order next year.

“Such societal dysfunction is lost on half of the country.”

You can’t fix our kind of stupid.

Unions make up only 12% or less of the total US workforce, while almost 50% of the US workforce makes $500 a week or less.

Would you like a blankie with your boogeyman? Maybe a hug? Some milk and cookies?

Based on what we’re seeing in New York, then 12% is still too much.

As far as your question, why don’t you do to Staten Island and ask the locals the same question?

I’m seeing some weird things at Safeway. The checkers used to be old and familiar long-time employees. A couple years ago they were all replaced by young people who moved in from elsewhere. It’s always new faces there.

Have they gone non-union?

What percentage of government employees are in a union?

In 2011 it was 37%
Private sector the same year was 6.9%

Have those come out yet ? Did I miss them ?

You will get them this Wednesday….

If Obama wins Tuesday, expect calls for impeachment.

“…expect calls for impeachment.”

Do you mean to suggest that right wing neocon extremists haven’t already called for impeachment by now? After election seems a bit late.

“IT’s the same reason many delivery drivers refuse to deliver pizza to some zipcodes.”

Yup. Matter of fact, even prostitutes don’t want to deal with us.

(actually, this is kinda humorus because we do show SOME business sense when we deal with prostitutes; “they try to get their moneys worth” LOL!)

http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/black-men/

The urge to make things “fair” never trumps the need for fiscal solvency and responsibility.

Just look at housing during the past decade.

Look at Bridgeport, CT, this week.

“Fairness” in place of solvency has resulted in one hell of a mess.

“The urge to make things “fair” never trumps the need for fiscal solvency”
Jefferson Davis discussing slavery at the 1860 Alabama Cotton Planters Convention.

I didn`t know it was you Rio, I thought this kid`s Dad told him this.

9 Year Old Brandon Says; “If Obama Doesn’t Win We Will … - YouTube
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2 days ago … 9 Year Old Brandon Says; “If Obama Doesn’t Win We Will Go Back To Picking Crops”. SinclairNews. Subscribe Subscribed Unsubscribe …

Hey Rio, I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about the Socialist French President’s plan to stop all homework in school because it discriminates against poor children who don’t have a good environment at home to do homework.

That’s fair right? I mean, why should the wealthy and middle-class kids have the opportunity to work hard and study when the poor can’t.

Life isn’t fair. All the socialists need to get over it…

The French kids still outscore ours. Then again, just about everyone does.

FWIW, I was in Mexico during my middle school and high school years. We were given tons of homework. Yet Mexico’s scores are well below ours.

Maybe homework is irrelevant?

Life, is, indeed fair.

People, however, aren’t.

Ah, yes….the 150-year-old “gotcha!” statement.

BTW, how’s development of Brasil’s offshore oil industry coming along?

Do you need more taxpayer dollars from black and Hispanic communities in the United States to fund it?

I guess using U.S. black and Hispanic taxpayer dollars to build Brasil’s energy industry is fair. Right?

In 2012, American blacks are Brazil’s slaves.

They do the work, you receive the benefits.

Hey Rio, I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about the Socialist French President’s plan to stop all homework in school because it discriminates against poor children who don’t have a good environment at home to do homework.

Hey Northeastener, I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about how you stopped beating your wife, or about the Fascist “Christian”, Republican legislator who said slavery was good for the Black people.

BTW, how’s development of Brasil’s offshore oil industry coming along?

It’s booming! Seriously. And Rio is the “capital” of it. Oil people everywhere. There’s big money in the air. It’s probably added 100K to my house “value”. Thanks for asking!

Ah, yes….the 150-year-old “gotcha!” statement.

Well, it did “getcha”. Because by using a simple example, it proved your following statement false:

“The urge to make things “fair” never trumps the need for fiscal solvency”

Freeing the slaves (being fair) trumped the fiscal solvency of the South’s rich.

And to remain true to Jefferson Davis, 152 years later, you support what amounts to black slave labor in the U.S. for your own personal profit in Brazil.

Bet you also despise the real Portuguese people (you know, those who live in Portugal). After all, they’re the low lifes, right? Not the Brazilian Portuguese, who are the self-appointed elitists of all things Portuguese.

Yeah, I know a bit about how Brazilians view the Portuguese, and vice versa.

you support what amounts to black slave labor in the U.S. for your own personal profit in Brazil.

But I stopped beating my wife.

black slave labor…..taxpayer dollars from black and Hispanic communities in the US to fund Brasil’s energy industry… you receive the benefits.

It’s such a dumb charge that I was just going to ignore it, but dumb charges can be fun.

First of all, your premise is wrong, would still be wrong even if correct, conflicts with a Republican meme and if your premise was not wrong (even if correct) it would totally undermine the right’s justification to lower the rich’s taxes.

Premise is wrong and would be wrong even if correct:
The loan given was issued to Brazil by The Export Import Bank, an independent, non-taxpayer funded organization, and requires that the money be used to purchase American products, stimulating America’s economy and creating American jobs….

And has ANY money been exchanged yet?:
“Two years later, the controversy over a $2 billion loan offer from the Export Import Bank of the United States continues despite the fact that not a single cent has exchanged hands in the agreement.” [Forbes.com, 3/21/11]

But here’s the good part……even IF the USA directly loaned PetroBras money, it would be at a higher interest rate than we receive for our US bonds. You can bet that PetroBras will pay that money back with interest. Obama the capitalist!

Confliction with a Repub meme:
Even if your premise was correct, how can “tax dollars” from Black and Hispanic communities be “funding” Brazil’s oil business when most in those communities are part of the 50% of Americans who “pay no taxes”. Or is the right hypocritical on this issue too?

Undermining the Right’s greed:
If your premise was correct and poor people’s taxes were funding Brazil’s oil business then the argument to lower the rich’s taxes would not be “fair” now would it? It would be putting even more of the proportional burden on the poor no?

But your premise IS incorrect so we don’t even need to worry about all of that.

Bet you also despise the real Portuguese people

Why would I despise the Portuguese? Are they hypocrites?

Brasil’s

That’s “BRAZIL” to you Dude.

So you keep all students in school 2hours more a day….so there is nothing to take home….

Hey Rio, I’m surprised you haven’t said anything about the Socialist French President’s plan to stop all homework in school because it discriminates against poor children who don’t have a good environment at home to do homework.

Oh ho.

Looks like much FUBAR and SNAFU on both sides as there was also proven deception in other instruments as well. (quick google “cdo fraud”)

“What is so troubling about all of this is that the investors in these C.D.O.’s were the most sophisticated investors with considerable money — $100 million or more — under management.”

Yet all the more reasons to stay away from Wall St.

Good find, polly.

Funny your preoccupation with FACTS, noting that you work in Washington.

That snarky comment aside, let’s examine the tome…

“The investments had names like Timberwolf and Class V Funding III. The now infamous Abacus C.D.O. promoted by Goldman Sachs was also a synthetic C.D.O. And these products were at the epicenter of the financial crisis.”

Fine and dandy. However, this was not at the epicenter of the crisis at mortgagee decision-making time at the bank.

“…allegations have been made that the banks promoting these financial instruments did not disclose that they also had short positions in them.”

Once again, fine and dandy. Once again, this was not at the epicenter of the crisis for the mortgagee at decision-making time. Disclosure would mean nothing.

Incidentally, where is the lawyer’s responsibility at this time? Surely, their $300/hr. is worth more that sitting on their asses as they typically do.

“…That is, Goldman was not bound to see if the investment was suitable for an investor or to act in investors’ best interest….”

Since when is this Goldman’s job? Why is this statement even in this article? “Suitable”. What does that even mean? Is Goldman a law firm? Guess I’m dumb. Perhaps they are also a law firm (and a fast food restaurant), considering the morass of intermingled regulations that now rule the USA.

More to come under additional post…

“Not only that, these materials warned investors that they should do their own investigation.”

Okay. First statement that actually means anything to the home buyer. Should be in bold face, in canary yellow.

“As for allegations that Goldman’s trading arm was simultaneously taking a short position in the housing market, there is disclosure on that too.”

Also okay. No legal wrongdoing yet on Goldman Sach’s part.

I hope this piece isn’t meant to show that Goldman Sachs was “not nice” or somehow corrupt. Epic fail thus far. I’ll keep reading.

“….Despite the warnings, the evidence is that the buyers of these synthetic collateralized debt obligations did not do a thorough investigation into the securities themselves, let alone follow up on the above disclosure….”

Well, gee. What a surprise. Again, this is not Goldman’s problem - UNLESS there’s influence peddling going on at the head levels, or unless any inquiries made at this juncture are not sufficiently answered. However, if the inquiries AREN’T MADE, it’s not Goldman’s problem.

If anything, it reflects piss-poor regulatory writing.

“…The S.E.C. contends that Citigroup had sold another such investment, the Class V Funding III C.D.O., while simultaneously planning to short the security, a fact it did not disclose to buyers. Citigroup settled the action, but Mr. Stoker disputed the allegations.”

Clearly illegal, if proven. Hard to believe that those in the business could be so stupid.

“….he claimed that Ambac had not because it had relied on the work of the portfolio selection manager, Credit Suisse Alternative Asset Management.”

What a line of b.s. Poorly-written, influence-peddled regulations once again are the root cause.

More to come….

“…All these various offering memos did not even acknowledge that the mortgage market was heading downward….”

This is assinine if it’s intended to be admissable.

You know, when I go buy a car, I don’t get memos telling me that the car market is heading downward.

Why should Goldman, CitiGroup or any other firm be required to inform potential customers that its product sucks? When people buy rutabegas at the grocery store, the store doesn’t guarantee the product will taste good.

“….Yet, not only did investors ignore this disclosure, they ignored it despite reading it….”

Well, well. The article finally gets around to the idea that mass psychology had something to do with what went down.

Poorly written regulations and lack or enforcement permit the mania to grow.

“….What is so troubling about all of this is that the investors in these C.D.O.’s were the most sophisticated investors with considerable money — $100 million or more — under management…”

LMAO! Troubling? You have to be kidding! I guess the author believes that the well educated and well pedigreed cannot succumb to manic thinking themselves. Typical elitist hack writer.

More to come-

“….This is a problem. Sophisticated investors are supposed to read the documents. We all know that retail investors don’t often take the time to read disclosure, but the securities laws are based on the idea that information is filtered into the markets through disclosure to sophisticated investors….”

No, the problem is not disclosure, dumbass. It’s the complexity and uselessness of mortgage/investor laws on the books at the time. Most people at street level are not “sophisticated” in the “mortgage business” or in “law”. Nor should they be asked to be.

You are not asked to be knowledgeable in supply chain logistics, for example, yet can count on the expertise of those in that industry under all but the most extreme circumstances.

You don’t need to know that incrddibly complex logistics industry, but you profit mightily from it. And without “disclosure”.

See a disconnect, buddy?

“……This is a form of the efficient market hypothesis. If sophisticated investors can’t be bothered to read the documents and act on them, then we have a real gap in the entire disclosure regime and asset pricing generally…”

Really? Since when? Markets naturally remove complexity in order to attain efficiency gains. Is that what is being said here? Or is what is being said in favor of more regulation and, hence, more calls for “disclosure”?

“….And because of this, the idea that requiring still more, better or clearer disclosure is likely to be unfruitful in many cases….”

Wow…a second statement that actually has some merit. Good.

“…..I have no great solution to this. Until we better understand how sophisticated investors process and read disclosure, regulators should be wary of trying to solve the problem by simply requiring more disclosure…..”

NEWSFLASH: No one has an answer for this. Coming to this conclusion is hardly an exercise in rocket science, either.

Disclosure isn’t the answer. Writing SIMPLE, BRIEF

Dunno what happened…

Disclosure isn’t the answer. Writing SIMPLE, BRIEF regulations is key, in absence of monied interests.

Brief and simple doesn’t require pages upon pages of exceptions, exclusions and legalese jargon than nobody outside the biz has the time or education to deal with.

Polly, I’m quite unimpressed with this piece of journalism. While maybe factually true, it’s pretty facile.

Both you and I and most people on this board could write much better investigative piece - and that’s bad because it’s not our areas of specialty.

I want to know a great deal more, such as:

1. Who wrote the regulations, and where are they now?

2. Who paid off the regulators and the enforcers? How accepted the bribes/favors/whatever and why aren’t these parties in jail?

3. Why are there ex-Goldman employees running around in the U.S. Cabinet? How and when did they get there? Who else from Wall Street is now in Washington?

4. Why isn’t there a movement afoot to permanently ban (for life) all guilty parties in Washington, on Wall Street and elsewhere from holding any public office, from working in DC, and from working in any money-based industries (securities/mortgage/insurance/underwriting)?

All licenses should be stripped, for life.

5. Who decided it appropriate to make the mortgage/investment industry needlessly complicated? Who profited?

Real protections for the “common man” derive from simplicity, not complication.

People do npot know how to respond effectively in times of complication. They do not know how to act.

Furthermore, in times of complication, people are not all that interested in finding out what is permissible and what is not. It all becomes “too much”.

You know this; you are a lawyer.

The outcome of complication in law is societal avarice. Including manias and other undesirable sociological and psychological phenomena.

None of this is rocket science. The author cannot come up with a satisfying answer to his own premise or supposition because he’s heading down a factual, yet blind alley.

The regulations were almost certainly written decades ago. The people who wrote them are retired or dead. The main securities act is from the 1930s. Another is from the 1940s.

You really have no understanding at all of Wall Street, do you Beth? You compared purchasing a complex investment to buying a car? Do you have any idea how absurd that it? To compare an investment to a consumer product?

Please pick a fight with FPSS. I would enjoy reading his response to your inanity.

Please pick a fight with FPSS.

I LOVED “Dumb and Dumber”. 1994, New Line Cinema

It’s a casino. Win, lose, the executives make money. And in a worst case scenario, the taxpayer is the ultimate bagholder.

Interesting you think that, Polly, since I worked for one of the major mutual fund companies for 8 years. You would know the name instantly. Brokerage desk stuff mostly.

I think the comparisons are quite valid. We’re talking about poorly written regulations here (overly complicated) here, not brain surgery.

Industries that have less complicated/onerous regulations tend to attract less criminal activity. Institute excessive laws, and people with either ignore them or make a game out of getting around them.

You know this first hand. Lawyers love complicated regulations. Billable hours and all that.

Additionally, you might want to read up some on logistics and supply chain management. Very complicated business. Fraught with issues of timing, money and conditions. Yet that industry handles it admirably well, with relatively scant criminal activity. How is that?

Oh, and one other thing, Polly.

That ObamaCare document is 2,000 pages long.

Clearly, an oncoming disaster for the masses. Clearly fraught with massive piles of unnecessary regulation and legalese that Joe and Jill 6 pack will never read or comprehend.

A disaster on par with the securities business. Perhaps worse.

YET - AND YET - unlike the securities business, the masses are required to participate or get fined.

So not only are the masses going to get reamed, they also get to pay for the privilege of getting reamed.

Imagine that coming out of Washington! Gee, I’m so surprised.

Yeah, I know. I’m stupid.

Mutual funds are the easiest investments to understand and most regulated investment vehicles out there. I was writing disclosures for RICs before the ink was dry on my degree and they didn’t bother to supervise us too carefully since the work was so easy.

It is the words you write that make me think you don’t know how investments work. You prove it every time you type out a response.

The “risk factors” sections of private placement memorandums are getting so long that of course people do read them all.

It is 30+ pages of potential risks (no matter how remote). When investment professionals have seen what, hundreds of “risk factor” sections with massive amounts risk factors (small and big), but very few (if any) ever lawsuits or problems related to the investments, it is easy to see how investors get desensitized to the risk factors…over time they cease to be “risk factors” and more “crying wolf”.

And then they look simply to the “independent” credit ratings agencies for their answer.

And by the way…if you think the 2,000 healthcare legislation is bad…I wonder how many pages of law/rules Dodd Frank has created? 50,000 (all the SEC rule writing, PLUS the legislation itself)?

And we still haven’t seen a final Volcker Rule or QRM requirements (the most important pieces to the entire deal).

Joe lives in Maryland.

His view of the world is colored thusly.

Joe hangs out with 1%’ers, it seems. There’s lots of them in Washington and surrounding environs.

Jane -

“Individual liberties”?

Don’t say that too often to a lawyer. Who knows - too many individual liberties might someday mean numerous lawyers are out of a job.

MAC:

The legalization of Drugs will put tens of thousands of lawyers out of work…who hoo…no clients

I was always fascinated how lawyers can take drug money for legal fees…and no one seems to question where did you get $50,000 cash with no verifiable job in the last 10 years?

SNAP out of it joe.

Mother nature designed the vegetation in the Southern California coastal ecosystem to withstand fire and quickly regenerate. However, no such allowance was made for homes built in the chapparal ecosystem.

“… where is the incentive to rebuild in the same spot.”

A common reason given is: “They love the view”.

(Do not bother to look for logic here.)

In Wyoming it’s all about who has thousands of acres of scenic public land for their backyard and who doesn’t.

“In Wyoming it’s all about who has thousands of acres of scenic public land for their backyard and who doesn’t.”

Same in Montana, don’t ask me how I know.