The Housing Bubble

Because all those NY and NJ public union janitors retired at age 39 and collecting $250,000 pensions are bankrupting this country, that’s how.

(I have no idea if this is true)

Wife is from Suffolk county long island and her father is a retired cop. He told her the starting salary for a Suffolk county police officer is now over $ 100K. Not bad for a nineteen year old.

You have to be 21yo to be a cop. Starting pay is somewhere around 48k. 100K,in 5 years? probably. Pretty damn good for 26yo.

the 19 bit was my addition…just figured since it didn’t require a college degree they could start after high school.

Actually most jurisdictions seem to require at least 2 years of college, or military service nowadays. This may not apply to departments in BFE, however.

“Starting pay is somewhere around 48k. 100K,in 5 years?”

If you live that long.

Anyone who thinks the pay cops receive unfairly high pay for putting their lives on the line every day to maintain law and order is free to step up and apply for the job.

my FIL the retired cop is one.

and it’s not that he thinks every single cop in the entire world is overpaid…but he does think the one’s in suffolk county are.

In terms of dangerous jobs rankings, cops are just below trash collectors and sales workers. Though it is a slightly more dangerous job than construction laborer/helper or taxi driver.

How about news reporters and black males??????

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/11/08/cbs-5-cameraman-beaten-robbed-after-oakland-live-shot/

Maybe that’s true in more surburban/rural areas, but does not apply to LA. I should know, I am the daughter of a retired LA sheriff and neice of a retired LA fireman.

And I’m sure that opinion is not at all influenced by the number of firefighters and sheriffs who are permanently “disabled” on the job every year, thus eligible for full UNTAXED retirement benefits for life.

I’ve known waaaaay too many LA City/County fire and sheriff’s personnel to fall for that one. Actually had one guy tell me not to call 911 after a weekend horse wreck because he wanted to go into the station the next day and “slip” in the garage bay.

Yes Alena, that’s the biggest scam around. I’d like to know why the disability pensions are federal tax-free?

Wow, interesting, I know a lot of cops who have been disabled in car crashes because of dui drivers, know cops who have been shot, cops who have been stabbed by HIV infected needles, bitten by drug addicts, shot at. I know kids and wives who have lost their fathers and husbands. I know firemen who have died of cancer because of all the chemical fires they’ve been exposed to. Yeah, you know a few bad apples. Better not call one when you need one.

31 years on the job, beachchic. 80% are scammers and it should not be federal tax-free.

Why does it have to be a choice? Why can’t a reasonable person run for office that doesn’t want to control your guns or vagina?

Why can’t a reasonable person run for office that doesn’t want to control your guns or vagina?

For all intents and purposes one just did IMO.

That why I said I’d prefer to vote for anybody who doesn’t push for both. Which is why I prefer Obama over Romney.

Thank you, Rio. But it didn’t make a diff, did it.

Were you able to find figures for what he got in write ins?

Yesterday RP said in a telephone interview that we were too late; the country didn’t want to turn our situation around because the majority were receiving gov checks. I have to agree. My family on both sides and closest friends work for the defense industry, or the military. My co-workers are all retired teachers that receive pensions so the teeny wage at our current position doesn’t bother them like it does for me. So despite my very strong feelings that certain industries need a clipping, I feel I can’t say too much.

The problem is that when I say clipped, I’m talking about the reversing of the executive to worker income/benefit ratios. But what happens instead is that workers are eliminated and those upper level pay scales remain intact. When my friends or family hear me ask why does our country need to spend more in defense than the top 14 other countries combined, they hear that I want them to be laid off from their work, from a place where their high intelligence has been rewarded by upward career mobility and strong pay raises. Those jobs define who they are as my business years did for me, and despite strong math and science skills, in this economy they’re unsure they would find work elsewhere easily or at the same pay scale.

If only every industry would experience depressionary forces equally and simultaneously, if only we could get medical, housing, our children’s education to be in sync with what’s happening to other industries people wouldn’t be suffering so badly because the bites out of their paychecks would be shrinking w/their paychecks. Isn’t it true that if we experienced a collapse the depressionary forces would be felt more evenly across all experiences?

Isn’t it true that if we experienced a collapse the depressionary forces would be felt more evenly across all experiences?

Yes. We thought we had a real one in 2008 but it was mutated.

Am I the only one voting for the guy?

I voted for Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and Pacfic Green candidates. And, after much deliberation because I couldn’t also write in Kucinich as VP, I wrote in Ron Paul. So, no. You aren’t the only one.

Isn’t it true that if we experienced a collapse the depressionary forces would be felt more evenly across all experiences?”

No. Banks would get hammered because they are leveraged up so no Deflation allowed

State workers probably will see the end of generous pensions, many low skill private workers will become so poor ( unable to withstand the inflation needed to fix the Banks ) and there will be so many of them that the Government will have to put them on reservations like they did to native American indian tribes back in the day.

in other news APA maybe a buy at this price level ?

Is it true deflationary crashes are felt more evenly?

Spoke like a true Californian

I was just thinking that. Superb name.

Athena, too. I hope they keep it up.

Gee, thanks for the May 2 news flash.

“obama doesn’t like white people” - kenny chesney

NASDAQ: NWSA

That’s because Coffee is for Closers!

“WHAT’S MY NAME?!!”

OOPs…Let me try again

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDGUZeZWKZo

I kind of like wool.

You’d get along well in Montana. Presuming you can out-run a sheep. (And occasionally the farm that owns said sheep.)

We used to call it Mantana.

When I moved to Portland in ‘98 I was told to bring a female with me as there’d be slim pickins once I got here. And it was tough for a few years but now, with Portland being the with-it-and-hip place that it is (gag), that’s largely changed.

In part because Fannie/Freddie paper is essentially 30-year US paper, since the guarantee is now explicit.

The last I checked, there was still a 75bp spread between 30-year mortgage rates and the 30-year treasury, but this was just before the Fed started buying.

Now the spread is about 65bps…how low will it go?

“…long bonds…accepting lower and lower spreads to treasuries.”

For clarification, your ‘long bonds’ refers to long-term corporate bonds, not long-term Treasurys?

“In part because Fannie/Freddie paper is essentially 30-year US paper, since the guarantee is now explicit.”

Right. The guarantee turns GSE debt into a near-perfect substitute for Treasurys, and the Fed’s MBS purchases have the effect of reducing the amount of government debt supply for other investors to potentially buy. As we have learned from housing, artificially limiting supply has the effect of increasing the price (the flip side of lower bond yields).

So basically:

1. Long bond prices are increasing due to increased demand from people clamoring for yield (FPSS) – which would decrease the yield on high yield corporate bonds, and

2. The Federal Reserve buying MBSs in lieu of treasuries increases the supply of treasuries thereby reducing their price which causes the yield on treasuries to increase.

The effect of both of the above is the narrowing of the spread?

But aren’t narrowing yield spreads between high yield corporate bonds and treasuries typically a symptom of a stronger economy?

Michael:

To my understanding, the Fed is not substituting MBS for treasuries…they are increasing the expansion of their balance sheet.

So, there doesn’t appear to be any movement up in the 30-year treasury, but there does appear to be movement down in the MBS yields to meet those yields of treasuries.

In “normal” times, the narrowing of the spreads would be a symptom of a strong economy.

Today, IMHO, the narrowing of all these spreads is a symptom of fear of risk/need for yield, and the general strength of corporate balance sheets.

As an example, Google has a few corporate notes (despite having cash on hand as a multiple of the debt) with maturity of roughly 9 years. The Yield to Maturity is 2%. A 10-year US Treasury is 1.6%.

I think the 2% has everything to do with the fact that Google could repay the debt several times over with cash on-hand, and very little to do with people being thrilled about the economy.

is there a good place to get all this information on various bond yields?

i mean place that focuses on bonds…something besides yahoo finance for instance.

I just logged into my Schwab account and searched for corporate bonds. I don’t know of other sources.

My partner just noted the Exxon’s debt just traded at yields BELOW those of the US Government…remarkable.

“To my understanding, the Fed is not substituting MBS for treasuries…”

It doesn’t matter whether the Fed is ’substituting MBS for treasuries…’ (whatever that means). What matters is that Treasurys and federally-guaranteed MBS are near-perfect substitutes under current market conditions. Hence if the Fed removes supply of one of these two asset classes (MBS), the value of the other (Treasurys) increases.

The Fed is adding demand for MBS with their $40B per month purchases. They are not reducing their support (whatever it was) for 30-year treasuries. The result is increased demand for MBS, and thus those yields are moving in the direction of 30-year treasuries.

Maybe not, but I’ve been seeing a lot of what looks like hate on both sides this week. Mostly on Facebook.

B-b-b-but, where’s Bandar?

I agree it does come down to simple demographics on that war. But it will probably be long and very very bloody.

Propaganda technique: Make a bunch of stupid statements, then accuse anyone that corrects you of being uptight and freaking out.

Twilight Zone? And I thought the neocons were having a meltdown. lol.

I could not have described today’s Republican Party ANY better. Only winning one (1 ) majority vote in the last 6 Presidential Elections proves the Republicans are LIVING in The Twilight Zone.

A hint to Repubs:
The American Train has left your station and your finger pointing at the Dems will not turn that train around.

Akin/Mourdock 2016!

NO, NO!

JEB 2016!

“The American Train has left your station and your finger pointing at the Dems will not turn that train around.”

That’s absolutely true. But now, someone told me that Jorge P Bush has registered for some public office or another in Texas.

(Does the P stand for Pinochet?)

Some of us that consider ourselves to be conservatives and like the constitution are not owned by the Republican party as many of you like to pigeon hole. We don’t like the BS from either “party”. We see the need for change and will continue to be frustrated until there is reform.

This is only my personal opinion, but the Democrats did not win a moral victory this election. They won out of repulsion of the Wall Street poster boy. Probably the only person in the USA who could have thrown the election so spectacularly. It looks to me to be a big chess game being played by power brokers. Making fun of your neighbors, regular working people, over the results is moronic.

but the Democrats did not win a moral victory this election. They won out of repulsion of the Wall Street poster boy.

I disagree. When it was time to vote, the Repub “team” had NO revulsion towards Romney’s Wall Street ties. None.

Since 1992, In the popular vote, Democrats have beaten Bush I, Bob Dole, Bush II, McCain, and Romney in Presidential elections.

It’s not just Romney, it’s the Repub Party.

“the Democrats did not win a moral victory” Karl Rove 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012

Hear, hear, Blue Skye.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/11/07/the-special-interests-won-again/

“What the two parties fight over is not alternative political visions and different legislative agendas, but which party gets to be the whore for Wall Street, the military-security complex, Israel Lobby, agribusiness, and energy, mining, and timber interests.”

“Repub “team” had NO revulsion towards Romney’s…”

You don’t live in our world.

You don’t live in our world.

What planet do YOU live on?

Hey Blue, than why don’t you start with ‘taking your party back’.. oh wait you tried that and elected the wrong repubs in the primary who failed spectacularly in the general election… please quite crying over spilled millk, take a step back, take a deep breath, and stop pointing fingers and rationalizing while seething with an unreleased dose of anger. Once you come to terms with reality and not the spooned fed drivel of faux news, rush, hanity et al, you might realize that the other side loves this country as much as you do and there are quite a few things that can be worked out before you approach the litmus test issues… just my opinion.

“What planet do YOU live on?”

One that rejects collectivism and protects freedom. You live on planet FSA, soon to be planet Mad Max.

Then everyone will be “equal”.

That’s a dumb propaganda argument. I am not “equal” to everyone. I’m special. And I want to be compensated for it as I have been. BUT, I want America to have MORE EQUAL opportunity and much less wealth/income inequality. These are way different than all being equal. No one here wants to be communist like Cuba. Are you that ignorant or brainwashed?

There aren’t enough rich to go around, and we will descend into a 3rd world cesspool,

That’s another propaganda influenced argument. Letting the BushTaxCutsForTheRich expire is not going to hurt America’s rich. It’s just going to help bring the deficit down. America IS turning 3rd world because the money is pooling into too few hands as it does in banana-republics. America is not turning into Cuba. Not even. America is turning into Brazil 1920’s. (Only Rich and Poor)

So much for the Stupid Party. RIP and don’t let the door hit ‘em where the good lord split ‘em.

BTW, the kindest thing the Rs can do is go quietly into that good night, because once they dissolve, the Ds will fall to dicking each other in the butt. This is what happens when a group has no one exterior to themselves to fight, they fight amongst themselves. They’ve got the long knives out for each other. Hillary’s going under the bus, mark my words.

dicking each other in the butt

Which Democrats do out of the closet. And which married, Christian, “family values” Republicans do in airport bathrooms, with meth and escorts, and with teenage Congressional pages.

Depravity is attracted to power centers, not the other way around.

As I watched Karl Rove’s epic meltdown/denial on Fox Election Night, I wondered if President Obama’s reelection and the criminally-disgraced demise of Rupert Murdoch’s “news” empire may somehow be related turning points signaling the end of an era?

For forty years Murdoch debased America’s news media, buying up legitimate news sources here, forcing out the Huntleys and Brinkleys, the Cronkites, the Dan Rathers and Robin MacNeils, bringing us in their place tabloid gossip under the guise of journalism, reality TV as “entertainment”, and Murdoch’s own brand of “fair and balanced” bullying against what he termed “the liberal media” — and which the global scientific community persisted in referring to as “facts”.

It’s been a gradual purging, but Glenn Beck has been banished to the late-night revival tent. Anne Coulter and Sarah Palin are reduced to playing the Bible college and after dinner skirt circuit, and even the headline “personalities” still on the air there are looking like they’re sick and tired of keeping up appearances.

For the last six months, I’ve watched Fox’s commentators and polling pundits deny Nate Silver’s elegant arithmetic. And literally up to the very end, Morris, Rove, Noonan, et al were playing the parts they were paid to play even in the face of overwhelming and humiliating truth. But with this election, I think even THEY are forced to confront that sometimes facts just can’t be spun, manipulated, or created out of thin air. The shrinking audience doesn’t justify their massive expenditure of integrity anymore, and Stewart and Colbert are just going to make mincemeat of their dissembling later in the evening. Every evening.

I wonder if Fox will use its shrinking resources to finally hire a few actual credible journalists, put together a decent news desk, and reinvent itself as a legitimate international news service that can actually inform its addlepated audiences instead of propagandizing them into a blathering stupor. Maybe the other MSM organizations will follow suit and start to dismantle what’s become our country’s election-as-entertaiment industry, the months-too-long Battle of the Bands we’ve all come to know and hate.

“And literally up to the very end, Morris, Rove, Noonan, et al were playing the parts they were paid to play even in the face of overwhelming and humiliating truth.”

I confess to taking great pleasure in unmasking their campaign of lies and skullduggery.

They lost White women under 40 because the Democrat campaign made up stories about losing the “women’s right to choose” and loss of government sponsored “health care”.

If that is what you truly believe, then you really ARE living in the Twilight Zone.

Which Democrats do out of the closet. And which married, Christian, “family values” Republicans do in airport bathrooms, with meth and escorts, and with teenage Congressional pages.

sad but soo true.

“The lost almost ALL the Black and Brown votes, i.e the votes of Illegal aliens and their spawn from south of the Border.”

Would you listen to yourself.. please explain how an illegal alien can vote, for that matter how does a legal alien vote.. last i checked you have to be US citizen to vote - and don’t even think about giving me the bullshit about voter fraud, it does not exist except in the narrow bigoted minds of people who refuse to accept facts from even non-partisan sources.

I take your comments to be pretty offensive and petty. Do you think maybe the Black and Browns, and not to mention 40% of white males, actually were frightened by the GOP morphing into a white-only club with extreme views on women rights, immigration, education, environment etc the likes of which havn’t surfaced since Nazi Germany with any relevancy … they are hell bent on taking our country back alright.. back to the stone ages.

Hardly. I lived through the sexual repression of the early sixties and know all too easily how ideologues can hijack the science and force a de facto prohibition.

Ryan’s anti-abortion stance verges on the unhinged and Romney repeatedly said he’d support the “repeal” of Roe vs Wade. Then there were the TeaParty acolytes very publicly pontificating on rape and pregnancy, and the absurd brouhaha about requiring corporate entities er, “churches” that accept taxpayer monies and subsidies, to offer women employees birth control options in their insurance benefits — like every other corporate entity that takes taxpayer subsidies.

The scorn heaped upon women’s autonomy during this campaign was unprecedented since the Nixon era, and women rightly told those who made reproductive rights an issue to go eff themselves. The Republican party, by not repudiating the rhetoric, brought this entirely upon themselves and trying to put the blame on those who called them out for it is disingenuous at best.

My posts are placing weird today. Maybe it’s the storm?

Would you listen to yourself.. please explain how an illegal alien can vote, for that matter how does a legal alien vote..

Frankly, I too would like for Dio to answer that question.

Which Democrats do out of the closet. And which married, Christian, “family values” Republicans do in airport bathrooms, with meth and escorts, and with teenage Congressional pages.

Precisely.

Letting the BushTaxCutsForTheRich expire is not going to hurt America’s rich.

Exactly. I’d be curious to know how hurt they were before 2001.

dicking each other in the butt

What are, six words you don’t often see on HBB even in the bits bucket, Alex?

Yeah, but that’s “Republican family values” in a nutshell. Married to a beard wife, and chasing that down-low action on the side.

You know, I used to just think that progressives in this country were misinformed and perhaps naive, now after reading some of these posts today, I truly believe that they are just plain stupid. Sorry to be blunt.

“Minorities will become the Majority and your side will win.
I know it is your dream.”

That is their dream until the soon to be white minority gets to use the whacked out progressive race based laws to their favor. We will be protected against black, brown and yellow hate speech. We will be protected against so called hate crimes. And finally we will get to use affirmative action rules for education and hiring opportunities.

Will see how Rio and the rest of the guilty white progressives react to that. I would imagine those laws would be modified within a couple of years to exclude white men and perhaps even white married women.

If nickpapageorgio uses the label “progressives” once more, I’m gonna hurl.

“Racist rants ”

You’re the expert.

Libtard.

“Blah, blah, blah Obama is making the sun set earlier blah blah blah when will the sheeple blah blah he’s arming them mooslims blah blah he’s after our women blah blah

The truth is a kick in the ba!!s sometimes.

nanny, nanny boo-boo,
stick your face in doo-doo

“extending the Patriot Act, warrantless spying, creating a “kill list”, conducting drone wars, sending a massive surge of new troops to Afghanistan and keeping Guantanamo open despite promising to shut it down.”

“The truth is a kick in the ba!!s sometimes.”

Ain’t it da trute!

“We won, we won, we’re finally worse than the neocons!”

I just voted for the fiscally conservative Moderate. Obama.

Reagan tripled the nat debt, Bush doubled that.

Oh, jeebus, rio, I’m just hacking around this lovely morning.

I do have a serious question to ask you, though. If you know, why is it that people look so much more attractive in Brazil than in the US? Is it the diet or what? Is more of a value placed on looks Brazil?

She walks, the man falls in love wiith her because of the way she walks, which - deep down - is silly.

At least that is what the song is about.

Do ugly girls go to Ipanema? No? Then there just might be a selection process at work.

why is it that people look so much more attractive in Brazil than in the US? ??

They are all Portugese….

Cognitive dissonance alert:

Brazilian women are so hot because they’re an ethnic MIX.

And there’s something beautiful about that.

“All that happens is symbol .”

I agree with combo, I do think there’s a process of natural selection at work.

If you know, why is it that people look so much more attractive in Brazil than in the US? Is it the diet or what? Is more of a value placed on looks Brazil?

I’m just trying to make an educated guess:

1. Most Brazilians live in urban areas and are less likely to own or use a car (poor or middle-class.) In urban areas you walk a lot (even to the bus stop or subway).

2. The diet is different. They eat a lot of fruit, veggies and beans. I’d say they eat 4 times as many beans per year than Americans. It’s also hot so you don’t eat as much and you don’t have 6 months of winter to keep you inside. They have 0 corn syrup. When Brazilians come to live in America, they usually put on a lot of pounds within 6 months, freak out and go on a diet. Their bodies are not used to the American diet and the car culture.

3. Stress. Brazilians deal with stress differently. They forget about it, and go dance, laugh and drink a beer with friends or get a tan or whatever. They get lost in their soap-operas. (novelas) They get a month off each year and about 12 paid holidays a year. (Not including a week of Carnaval) Their pace of life can sometimes drive a gringo crazy. Just try to walk in a hurry on the streets of Rio. They walk so slowly (3 abreast discussing soccer maybe) it can drive a gringo CRAZY. Americans live to work. Brazilians work to live.

4. IMO, The average Brazilian put’s a lot more emphasis on looking good than Americans. (Especially in Rio) All things being equal, I would not say Brazilians are better looking than Americans. No way. But all things are not equal. Because of diet, exercise, exercise, exercise, salons, stress, treatments etc, I’d say the average 40 year old middle-class Brazilian is better looking than the average 40 year old American. (but not as “rich”)

“Brazilian women are so hot because they’re an ethnic MIX.”

I think their parents picked better. I’ve not been to Brazil, but I bet they don’t glorify obesity there, and clearly, they’re not buying this “it’s what’s inside that counts”.

She walks, the man falls in love wiith her because of the way she walks, which - deep down - is silly.

Sensual attraction bringing out feelings of love is not silly. It’s not silly deep down, half-way down or superficially.

Do ugly girls go to Ipanema?…..there just might be a selection process at work

There totally is. Also the girls at Ipanema are lighter and pretty. The girls at the poorer beaches are darker and pretty.

But not all Brazilians are “pretty”. That’s for sure.

Good rundown, rio. Makes sense. Two things I hate: MSG and LFCS. Gross.

To which beach do the ugly girls go?

Because there are no ugly girls at the beach doesn’t mean there are no ugly girls.

“Sensual attraction bringing out feelings of love is not silly.”

Sensual attraction brings out feelings of lust, and this lust can be - and often is - mistaken for love.

(Where’s Spook? IMO he was onto something.)

To which beach do the ugly girls go?

Biloxi Beach.

“why is it that people look so much more attractive in Brazil than in the US? ”

Hybrid Vigor!!!

I WANT TO VISIT BRASIL!

I have 75k AA miles for a free flight. What is the best way to spend a month in Brasil, and Argentina, maybe Medellin too and Machu Pichu? I am 46 and fit as a fiddle, I’ll bring the condoms. lol!
Are domestic flights affordable?

What is the best way to spend a month in Brasil, and Argentina,

Are domestic flights affordable?

Not in Brazil. Buy a tourist 3-5 city air pass in usa before you come to Brazil. Tourists don’t pick up Rio women w/o money. ahem. Rio women have been hit on since they were young. Tourists don’t wow them. (Unless you speak Portuguese) Belem and the north, women are friendlier. I’ve used this company b4. Let me know if you come to Rio.

http://www.santours.com

It smells like victory. And coconuts.

They have 0 corn syrup.

+1 It’s amazing how this stuff has helped bloat the U.S. population in such a short period.

Especially after the 70,000 man obama afgan “surge”

It didn’t work out quite as well as it did in Iraq.

Bush broke it. Obama has to fix it. Wars are not “easy” to end.

He’s kind of doing the Nixon Plan, isn’t he? Long drawn-out into the second term. But at least Nixon had the peace negotiations going on as an excuse.

BTW some R’s were circulating a “Impeach Obama” emails yesterday and hyping it on Facebook..unless something else worse transpires I hope that dies a quick death.

Why not? Saigon was difficult to exit expeditiously and safely, yet I think Afghanistan has fewer higher level structures.

Leave on C-130s rather than helicopters?

I know my choice.

Get the “F” out of Dodge! End of subject!!

So you favor higher taxes on the elite?

Maybe it is a bigger problem that our economy is becoming dependent on the actions of 500 or so idiots in Washington who can’t agree on anything. Sounds like the correct action is to remove gov’t control and influence in the economy and let many smaller choices affect it’s direction rather than relying on giant consequences from a few partisan hacks to determine our success or failure.

Did you miss the last 30 years of deregulation?

How’d that work?

Uhh, I didn’t say deregulate. I said move the spending to the state and local level. BIG difference.

Lip, I hope you are not serious about asking that question. Not since it was suggested that the Irish should solve their famine problem but eating their children has sarcasm been so clear.

Like it or not, cars 25 years from now are going to look like the Chevy Volt, not the Prius or any other hybrid.

Unless someone builds the cutting edge tech stuff, and gets enough of them out to Joe Q Public to start finding out what the longevity/durability issues are, nothing will be improved.

We saw this when I worked at the Aviation OEM……you can do 3 years/6000 hours of test and certification flying, but it takes getting airplanes into the hands of customers to find ALL of the problems.

Albq Dan,

After talking to a few of my more progressive friends, I was amazed at the disinformation. It’s difficult as they’re true believers in all things liberal.

Obviously the future is in electric or hybrid autos, but the Volt has had a negative effect on the economy of GM. They loose money every time they sell one.

So how does that help the US economy? It has provided a few jobs, but not much.

OK, so I am still waiting to hear about “one thing” Obama has done to improve the economy??? Just one.

What have the republicans done to improve the economy? You never have anything positive to say. Instead of telling us how awful Obama is, why not list some republican achievements?

“What have the republicans done to improve the economy?”

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:46 AM PDT
January 2009: Paul Ryan Literally Plotted To Sabotage America’s Economy

…nothing? Nothing at all? Come on, there must be SOMETHING!

nothing? Nothing at all? Come on, there must be SOMETHING!

No, nothing. That’s why the Republican party is so broken. It lost to “nothing”.

X-GS: Why then, I ask, are General Aviation airlplanes based on sixty-plus year old designs and technology with regards to both airframes and engines? The Chevy Volt is the biggest piece of shit ever put on the road. There is no way cars will in any way resemble that flaming piece of crap in 25 years. Even in this pathetic ongoing era of Idiocracy/Obamoracy.

Progressive Folks,

The Republicans have not had control for how long???

What do you expect them to do? They have the House but the Senate has been totally worthless since Harry Reid took control. When is the last time they even filed a budget?

So, I would surmise that your lack of response means that you don’t know what they’ve done, and to be honest that is the right response because they’ve “nothing”.

Just think, you support a party that has done nothing to support the economy, nothing to improve economic conditions and in fact have done everything to make things worse.

But now you have the Presidency for another 4 years and somehow you’re going to find a way to blame the Republicans or even Bush!

Have a nice weekend folks,
Lip

they will just point out the economy sucks in 2014

A cut-back in the military cheese does not taste to good now does it A-dan….Biggest jobs/welfare program we have…

I have no connection to defense contractors and I do not even own defense stocks. Sorry SCdave, it is just a math fact that the GDP of a country includes government spending and when you cut G it slows the economy at least in the short term (which can be several years). People voted for 100% of government for 60% of the taxes which was a good deal until you cannot do it anymore.

Defense spending is one area where conservatives are staunch Keynesians.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68R40I20100928

Cisco and huawei are battling it out as we write this.

interesting huawei is considered a Chinese government company that will embed spyware in any telecom equipment it sells. therefore the US government is really pressuring American Phone companies to not buy huawei telecom equipment

Question; is this suspension true or a “helping hand” to the last big US telecom maker? or both ?

For some reason, the Fall 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers just came to mind…

Your post suggests the mutual fund investors are persistently wrong, week after week, while the smart money keeps the faith in stocks.

I find this explanation dubious.

You misunderstand my post. Here’s an example. I pull money from a high cost mutual fund and put that same amount of money into a low cost ETF invested in the same basket of stocks. My stock exposure is the same and there is no net effect on the stock market.

It does, however, make the flow of money in and out of mutual funds a useless indicator of stock market performance. It only tells you how popular mutual funds are.

Clearer?

“Clearer?”

Yes, but my reading of recent articles suggests the primary direction of flow is out of stock mutual funds and into not stock ETFs, but rather bond mutual funds — the kind which will get hammered when the bond bubble pops.

They tried that in Greece without success. No, while many on this board understand the problem of a country or other government entity going deeper and deeper in debt, most voters do not get it to the money runs out. But news flash the money had run out and now we will see the consequences.

But news flash the money had run out and now we will see the consequences.

Higher taxes on the rich which will create less jobs in China.

And if we cut some of the trillion dollar military budget, along with 750+ bases in 125+ countries we’ll see a mushroom cloud over Manhattan.

I will give you a short story on raising taxes on the rich…

in the 1930s, Social Security was sold to the American public as a 1% tax on the wealthiest Americans.

Today - Everyone pays 15% of their income to Social Security. And it is still going to go bankrupt without even more increases in taxes.

No ONE believes a liberal when they say “I only want to raise taxes on the rich” - especially the middle class.

Please take that with the humor intended.

Was thinking the same thing, Bayarea.

Stamford, CT

I wrote welfare.

You know, if a business gets a grant, tax break, or hand out it is smart. if a person gets one, he is a mooch.

I’d like to think that I’ll still dislike Prop 13 if it’s still around in 30 years. It’s a badly designed law.

And I have already purchased. In 2009. People thought I got an amazing deal and goggled when I said “Eh, I expect it to be worth 20% less than I paid for it in a few years. We’re not done collapsing.”

Sadly, houses cost more around where I live than in 2009. We’re still in denial on the peninsula.

And I have already purchased. In 2009. People thought I got an amazing deal and goggled when I said “Eh, I expect it to be worth 20% less than I paid for it in a few years. We’re not done collapsing.”

Is it? (worth 20% less now?)

Surprisingly, no. I think the drop of interest rates from 5.325% to 4% might have something to do with that. There was one short sale that took 9 months to close that went for less, but other than that, all the other sales have been higher. Some significantly higher. I still think it’ll drop down, but I’m not sure how much will be inflation-losses and how much will be actual price declines.

Cool! Call me when you get there and I’ll turn you on to some excellent back-mountain runs.

We’ll see. I would posit in California with a top 60.5% marginal rate for the top earners it will effect the other 90% very much but indirectly. Businesses will stop expanding in California. Jobs for the other 90% will go elsewhere. The tax base will erode in the long run. That’s at least what I expect. We’ll see.

Don’t forget NH… the state motto is “Live Free or Die”.

Sorry, and no income tax in NH…

NH is really wonderful in the summer. My grandfather had a camp on Lake London. The people are really nice too and very libertarian. Although I’m not sure how I would handle the winters. You have to be pretty tough. I think I’ve wimped out a bit living in California.

Nobody answered the question. If CA is so horrible, why aren’t they all leaving?

Dweebs with names like “Grover Norquist” used to get beat up, on General Principle.

Maybe somebody did whack him when he was a kid. This is what you get with bullies, the victims later grow up and get revenge. It’s been Grover that’s been laughing at us for the last 30 years.

According to this Pew survey of religious voters, 2% more Mormons voted for Bush in 2008 than voted for Romney this election.

http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx

Wow. And Bush wasn’t even eligible to run.

*I’m sure you meant McCain right?

Too bad we only have exit polls for 31 states this time, got to be a big sampling error.

Interesting stuff. I see the born again/evangelicals actually voted for Mitt in a higher percentage than the Mormons did. But that doesn’t count who didn’t vote at all.

No, meant Bush in 2004. It’s been an odd day….

You seem very focused on the underwater mortgages. I’m focused on those who are NOT underwater, but that no government resources are being spent to make sure those people are paying the least possible monthly cost.

Per the Q3 credit supplement for Fannie Mae, they estimate that only approximately 14% of their entire book of loans are “underwater” nationwide. A Washington Post article TODAY estimated that approximately 22% of all home loans are underwater.

That leaves between 78% and 86% of all loans that are not underwater. A certain subset of these 78-86% of all loans are “in the money”, meaning they could be refinanced into a lower rate.

The 25 million loans that LPS calls “in the money” and potentially refinancable, but NOT HARP eligible (ie. highly likely NOT underwater) represents approximately 50% of all home loans.

Back to LPS: Among the categories they provided are:

1. HARP Eligible: This includes underwater, but current loans (ie. not in default)–this is 1.3 million loans that are pre-2005–this is what the government program you note is set up for; and
2. Current, but “in the money”–this is 11 million loans that are pre-2005

These are two separate categories…one for underwater and current, and one that is generally NOT underwater and current (the reason I say “generally” is that there could be underwater loans that missed a payment or two in the past 12 months, are current now and that are NOT HARP eligible, but “in the money” that end up as part of the 11 million–I assume that is a relatively small number).

Said another way, if a loan was underwater, but still current, it is very likely that it would be moved into the “HARP eligible” category. In other words, the vast majority of the 11 million that are pre-2005 (and likewise the vast majority of the 25 million overall) are NOT underwater.

For more data, LPS puts all home loans into the following categories (with approximate numbers)

HARP Eligible (greater than 80% LTV and good payment history): 3.3 Million, or 6.7% of the total;
Current with interest rate greater than 4.5%: 25.2 Million, or 51% of the total;
NOT-Current with interest rate greater than 4.5%: 4.3 Million, or 8.7% of the total;
Interest Rate less than 4.5%: 16.6 Million (or 33.6% of the total)

Mixed throughout all these groups are about 22% (according to the Wash Post today) that are underwater. Many of these are in the “non current” and HARP eligible categories.

Based on all this, there is between 14 Million (if all 22% of underwater loans are in the “Current and in the money” category–unlikely) and up to 25 Million borrowers that are NOT underwater and could refinance into a cheaper loan.

Gut feel, the number is probably somewhere between 20 and 24 million borrowers.

Why are we not helping those folks lower their monthly payment and de-lever?

Also, you seem to think the “refi” means that the same lender re-writes the loan.

Except in situations with loan modifications (when there are no lenders willing to lend enough $ to satisfy the existing lender), this is NOT the case.

I have had three loans in a matter of 18 months.

3 different banks provided the loans.

Bank #1 provided the loan to purchase the house;
Bank #2 provided a loan that repaid the loan from Bank #1; and
Bank #3 provided a loan that repaid the loan from Bank #2.

That battle is ridiculous. I suppose some honestly think voting on science changes reality.

“I suppose some honestly think voting on science changes reality.”

Similar to how religious types believe that belief changes the afterlife experience…

If only all proofs were that elegant!