Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Posted By: Ben Jones @ 12:01 am
Stock market has tumbled since Obama reelection. Are investors mad?
The stock market has gone into a bit of a tailspin since the election. Wall Street’s disappointment with the outcome will pass quickly, but concern about the ‘fiscal cliff’ is mounting.
By Ron Scherer | Christian Science Monitor – 10 hrs ago
Investors thought the election might answer some political questions. If that’s the case, Wall Street traders did not seem to like the answers.
Tuesday’s election reaffirmed all the elements that led to gridlock during the past two years – reelecting President Obama and leaving the balance of power in Congress unchanged. In response, Standard & Poor’s 500 stock index has fallen 3.4 percent. Stock markets tried to rally Friday, but the effort had little energy with the Dow Jones Industrial Average closing up about 4 points for the day and down 3.2 percent since the election.
“What we are seeing is a hissy fit reaction,” says Fred Dickson, chief investment strategist at D.A. Davidson & Co. in Lake Oswego, Ore. “The last day or two they have been acting like 5 year olds, but we know that kind of thing passes very quickly, and they are on to the next thing.”
“What we are seeing is a hissy fit reaction. The last day or two they have been acting like 5 year olds, but we know that thing passes very quickly, and they are on to the next thing.”
Lol. There it is, folks. It’s their game their running and this is what they think of the players.
Trouble is, they’re right.
“their running” = they are running”
Until they’re not.
It now has gotten to the point where the typical, 100 I.Q. Joe and Jill 6-pack know their freedoms are rapidly disappearing.
Freedom and money are going to go where they are most welcome. It is no longer the United States.
Here is your word for today MacBeth: Egalitarianism
Egalitarianism is a trend of thought in political philosophy. An egalitarian favors equality of some sort: People should get the same, or be treated the same, or be treated as equals, in some respect. Egalitarian doctrines tend to express the idea that all human persons are equal in fundamental worth or moral status. So far as the Western European and Anglo-American philosophical tradition is concerned, one significant source of this thought is the Christian notion that God loves all human souls equally. Egalitarianism is a protean doctrine, because there are several different types of equality, or ways in which people might be treated the same, that might be thought desirable. In modern democratic societies, the term “egalitarian” is often used to refer to a position that favors, for any of a wide array of reasons, a greater degree of equality of income and wealth across persons than currently exists.
Please note the relationship between Lockean Rights:
Your word for the day is Pious.
No need for me to explain to others here what that means. Examples abound.
United States was exceptional because while we valued both liberty and equality, we valued liberty more. The French value equality more than liberty and thus never achieved with their revolution what we achieved with ours.
Beautifully stated, Dan.
Be sure to pass the idea along to today’s youth.
It’s vital we keep it alive.
“…we valued liberty more.”
A null and void concept for the Koch brothers.
American “liberty”is liberty to enslave others people like Koch brothers are trying to do by eliminating Unions in United States. They want Americans like in third world countries to work for $2 an hour… for them that is the proper equality for the slaves like us… Viv la GOP
This is absurd: On what planet do Joe and Jill move the stock market?
United States was exceptional because while we valued both liberty and equality, we valued liberty more. The French value equality more than liberty and thus never achieved with their revolution what we achieved with ours.
Liberty for the 1%; cake for the 99%.
People do not need to know why something is happening to them to consciously experience it happening to them.
Later today, someone can stick a 357 in your face and without you’re knowing why they’re doing so, you know your life is on the line.
Same with Joe and Jill 6-pack today.
You need to be a little more non-biased in your reasoning process and your assumptions. You sell many people short.
Good point. For instance, right now I am consciously experiencing a group of posters who seem reluctant to admit that further political propaganda effort became irrelevant a couple of days ago.
As much as you and other university employees don’t like it, there will always be people who have different political views than one’s own.
My political view happens to tilt heavily in favor of The Constitution and rights for individuals rather than rights for groups.
The individual is always the smallest minority.
I know that irks you, but so be it.
Two dollars an hour would start looking pretty good if you were starving.
“…The French value equality more than liberty and thus never achieved with their revolution what we achieved with ours….”
What nonsense. The French eliminated their aristocracy. America enabled the formation of a new one that survives to this day. But over the vociferous objections of our latter-day Tories, we’re actively involved in dismantling it.
“The French eliminated their aristocracy. America enabled the formation of a new one that survives to this day. But over the vociferous objections of our latter-day Tories, we’re actively involved in dismantling it.”
Here’s a “rights for the individual vs rights for the group” real life scenario. How would YOU deal with it?
John Galt One lives on a mountaintop and breeds Doberman Pinchers. They live in cages and bark constantly, echoing down the mountain and through the valley day and night, every day and all night. John Galt One is deaf and drunk. He don’t care….
John Galt Two lives on the mountaintop opposite and runs a monastery. The monks can’t hear themselves think, let alone chant. John Galt Two and his monks DO care. They care a lot. The barking makes them crazy. Their cumulative rage at being John Galts and accepting individual liberty, is at odds with their human desire to choke the living sheet out of John Galt One’s dog collection. One of the monks dies of apoplexy brought on by that rage.
Both John Galts are heavily armed. Twenty armed monks, twenty barking Dobermans. Who’s gonna win?
NOW do you see why we have regulations?
“Who’s gonna win?
NOW do you see why we have regulations?”
Isn’t the Coase Theorem supposed to obviate the need for regulations in your scenario? (You also seem to assume mutually-assured destruction won’t suffice to maintain the unstable peace.)
If memory serves, then the Coase approach does not require regulations, but does require assignment of enforceable property rights.
For instance, if the property right belonged to John Galt One to keep unmuzzled noisy dogs as pets, the burden would fall on John Galt Two to build a soundproof enclosure around his monastery.
If the property right to a noise-free environment belonged to John Galt Two, he could legally require John Galt One to muzzle or otherwise silence his dogs.
Relevant real world example: The Endangered Species Act transferred property rights from people whose activities resulted in decline of certain animal populations towards extinction to another group of people interested in preventing extinction of said populations. But since the real world is far more complicated than the two-player John Galt situation, regulations are needed to implement the provisions of the Endangered Species Act.
P.S. Last I heard, Coase was still alive and taking interviews:
Nobel Laureate: ‘I’ve Been Wrong So Often, I Don’t Find It Extraordinary At All’
by David Kestenbaum
May 08, 2012 3:00 PM
They’re on separate mountain tops they each own, remember? Two opposing fiefdoms if you will. You’re presupposing a society with laws and title rights to mediate their feud. That requires regulations; an imposition of the group will over the individual’s rights.
My point: our umbrage here is over where to draw the line in order to maintain a balance. Anarchy is nice in theory, but much harder to pull off in practice.
“They’re on separate mountain tops they each own, remember?”
The issue isn’t who owns the mountain tops, but rather who owns the property right to either create or prevent the externality (noisy dogs, in this case).
You miss my point.
but rather who owns the property right to either create or prevent the externality
It seems they both believe they own conflicting property rights. One has the right to create the noise; one has the right not to hear the noise.
Which is the valid one, as two conflicting property rights cannot exist?
“It seems they both believe they own conflicting property rights.”
And I repeat myself:
…the Coase approach does not require regulations, but does require assignment of enforceable property rights.
It also requires low transaction costs. And even Coase argued that it generally didn’t apply in the real world, because of that.
Progressive idiots on parade again today. Keep talking amongst yourselves.
“NOW do you see why we have regulations?”
Funny, I thought The Constitution provided protective tenets, along with the Bill of Rights’ regulations.
Why not say what you really believe, ahansen? That the individual is subservient to group approval and group action.
Sounds like a government-sponsored/forced version of the 1950s, but let’s ignore that, shall we?
Brass tacks: I believe in the republic form of democracy. You don’t. You want to cede other people’s freedoms to a greater power.
A hansen is nothing more than a communist masquerading as some kind of moderate liberal. She is an extreme statist and wants to shape the world to fit her twisted view. All the while living miles away from the carnage she promotes.
Oh, knock it off Beth. I go for months without a face-to-face (or even voice-to-voice) conversation. Other than maybe BlueSkye and Lost-in-Utah, I am probably the most autonomous individualist posting on this blog– and answerable to by far the fewest. And unlike those of you who give it (constant, tedious) lip service, I actually have the bona fides (and the woodpile) to prove it.
I also understand that for an individual to survive, there must be as least occasional reciprocity to the group– even if that group is just a vegetable garden. If you care to buy off that subservience by paying taxes, consider it fee-for-service. That’s what I do.
Thank you for being a literate and reasoned voice for the loyal opposition. I really appreciate your original voice here.
You’re a cowardly twit with an undisciplined mind who adds nothing useful to the conversation. Consider yourself Joshua Treed. I strongly urge you to reciprocate.
Sorry lady, the rest of the readers will see my posts as long as Ben allows them. You just don’t like viewpoints that differ from your own. Go ahead and Joshua Tree, I consider that an honor.
I started to wrote a lengthy response, hit the wrong button and lost it into the ether.
Let’s talk more about this later. It may take a few days of cross-banter.
You puzzle me and you piss me off. The reverse probably also is true. So be it. However, since neither of us really gets the other, we’ll have to rectify it lest others here will lose interest in our divergent genius - LOL.
“Progressive idiots on parade again today. Keep talking amongst yourselves.”
Keep nursing your grudge and making off-topic posts (just kidding!).
My curiosity is over whether Mr Market was blindsided by a MSM which bamboozled the electorate into thinking a Romney win was “in the bag.”
MY curiosity is over why you are still on edge after your guy won. You don’t seem very pleased.
(And yes, Obama is your guy, even if you voted for Johnson. If the California race was close, you would have voted Obama all the way. Don’t pretend otherwise as you’re fooling no one).
“(And yes, Obama is your guy, even if you voted for Johnson. If the California race was close, you would have voted Obama all the way. Don’t pretend otherwise as you’re fooling no one).”
I was trying to fool no one by pointing out a bunch of moronic neocon posts whenever they showed up here.
But I suppose fools are, by definition, easily fooled.
“I was trying to fool no one by pointing out a bunch of moronic neocon posts whenever they showed up here.”
A red-letter moment! We agree in our intent. I dislike neocons as well.
Neocons run rampant through all of Washington, not just the GOP corridors.
Obama = Bush
Bush = Obama
“But I suppose fools are, by definition, easily fooled.”
How else could we be turning out so many progressive/statist automatons from the university system?
What exactly is a “progressive”? I’m hoping nickpapageorgio can explain, as he uses the term in his every post.
“Progressive” seems like a great label to apply to anyone whose views disagree with your own bigoted view of the world, as there seems to be widespread confusion on what the word means.
July 12, 2010
Americans Unsure About “Progressive” Political Label
More than twice as many say label does not describe them as say it does
by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ — Gallup polling reveals widespread public uncertainty about the “progressive” political label — a label recently embraced by no less than Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan. While Kagan described her political views as “generally progressive” during her Senate confirmation hearings, fewer than half of Americans can say whether “progressive” does (12%) or does not (31%) describe their own views. The majority (54%) are unsure.
I know one person who, after the election, just decided to sell everything. It was kind of a hissy fit reaction, but underlying it is a real concern for the effect of the President on business.
Business will be affected in way never before thought possible…welcome to the future:
“… welcome to the future.”
Hey, it’s not the future, it’s Oakland.
“The cost of broadcast quality cameras can run into the tens of thousands of dollars each.”
So what do these guys do with these expensive cameras? Why, they take them to Oakland. And there, in Oakland, the cameras get stolen.
What a surprise!
Anticipating inflation, he traded his assets for cash. Smart guy.
Are you being sarcastic? Holding cash with lots of inflation is the last thing you should own…
Doesn’t capital gains tax go up Jan 1st?
This election wasn’t ABOUT the Wall Street players; their boy lost.
It was about the “little” people who for the most part don’t own a single share of stock, don’t have a clue who runs the FED, and don’t care a whit for the exigencies of the DJIA.
Obama’s first election might have been a big national kumbaya moment, but his second one shows that the country will no longer tolerate obstructionism on the fringes, and REALLY won’t cater to the dictates of the oligarchy anymore.
The focus shifted big-time with this election; (Elizabeth Warren in the Senate? Alan Greyson back in the House? Sequestration looming likely?)
Wall Street just doesn’t realize it yet — but they’re sure gonna.
REALLY won’t cater to the dictates of the oligarchy anymore
That’s a beautiful thought Allena. I so hope that you are right, but my gut tells me otherwise.
The oligarchs won with either candidate, and already own most of Congress as well, unfortunately.
Change comes gradually, but it does come. (See: gay rights, demographic shifts, smoking bans.) Some are the result of policy, some evolve naturally. The trick is managing it without inciting civil war.
What I am eagerly looking forward to is the day the LDS church openly accepts gays, as many other churches have already done.
“Change comes gradually, but it does come. (See: gay rights, demographic shifts, smoking bans.) Some are the result of policy, some evolve naturally. The trick is managing it without inciting civil war.”
You know what ahansen, you and your ilk are a threat to liberty. Everything I have been saying about progressive/communist infiltrators is wrapped up int that one comment. I find it sickening and I will work until my dying breath to defeat your movement.
And I’m looking to news articles about black churches courting white, small-government conservatives!
Bring it on, brotha!
That’s going to totally depend on the definition of “accepts”. Marriage is the sticking point.
“You know what ahansen, you and your ilk are a threat to liberty.”
Primary tactic of a propagandist: Accuse those who disagree with your primary tactic of exercising it.
‘That’s going to totally depend on the definition of “accepts”.’
I was kind of thinking back to the prophet’s revelation on blacks a few decades back…
Yes. Once someone is in full fellowship and can hold the priesthood, they can marry in the temple. Homosexuals can already hold the priesthood if they are celibate, but I can’t see them every being allowed to marry someone in the temple who is not of the opposite sex. The entire church doctrine is built around marriage being between a man and a woman. I don’t think one sets the precedent for the other.
“This election wasn’t ABOUT the Wall Street players; their boy lost.
It was about the “little” people who for the most part don’t own a single share of stock, don’t have a clue who runs the FED, and don’t care a whit for the exigencies of the DJIA.
Obama’s first election might have been a big national kumbaya moment, but his second one shows that the country will no longer tolerate obstructionism on the fringes, and REALLY won’t cater to the dictates of the oligarchy anymore.
The focus shifted big-time with this election; (Elizabeth Warren in the Senate? Alan Greyson back in the House? Sequestration looming likely?)
Wall Street just doesn’t realize it yet — but they’re sure gonna.”
This election was all about the FSA and you know it. Your big communist ideas had nothing to do with it. Like the hard working folks with pensions and 401k’s want the government to shut down the markets. You are so full of yourself and ignorant at the same time.
Your generation is peaking now, enjoy it while it lasts, I know many an anit-communist and they are not giving up any time soon.
Your bitterness is speaking now, enjoy it while it lasts.
I am bitter today, my posts were rolling. I think I got it all out of my system, but I meant every word. Time to chill and go back to real life, I doubt I will be changing any hearts and minds here. Have a nice evening.
“I think I got it all out of my system, but I meant every word.”
Have a spiritual Sunday!
Assume the crash position — NOW!
Beware the Rising Wedgie formation!
Warning: The Stock Market Panic Button Is About to Be Pushed
By Anthony M. Cherniawski and Janice Dorn
Nov 09, 2012 9:00 am
Investors are now dealing with the looming fiscal cliff and the prospect of higher taxes on capital gains and investment income starting next year.
MINYANVILLE ORIGINAL In October, we published two articles suggesting that there might be a stock market panic in October (see here and here). We were early. Whether the delay in the potential market panic was due to organic reasons, such as the excitement leading up to the November election, or some other factor is beyond the scope of this article. What we do know is that the day after the election the stock market had its worst day since November, 2011.
On that day, the S&P 500 decisively broke the Rising Wedge formation with a potential for a complete retracement to 1074.00 and the potential neckline (dotted line) for a Head & Shoulders Pattern with a minimum downside target of 1322.00. Either event could be construed as bearish — but the combination of the two may be a disaster for the longs.
In prior articles exclusve to Minyanville, we discussed stock market patterns that give warning to the probability of a reversal in trend and a possible panic or crash. A classic pattern is the Broadening Formation. These formations make their appearance as a rule only at the end or in the final phases of a long bull market.
Does this mean stock prices will fall to the point where there might be a decent return, and dividend yield, going forward? That would be nice.
How about P/Es going below eight? It’s happened many times before, it will probably happen again.
See for yourself:
How about P/Es going below eight?
That’d be nice.
At those levels, I’d buy in regardless of how ugly the future prospects look.
“At those levels, I’d buy in regardless of how ugly the future prospects look.”
Ugly future prospects is what drives P/Es to go below eight.
Which is why I’m baffled at where the markets have been for the past three years.
Future prospects aren’t looking so great, but they haven’t been since 2007.
“Ugly future prospects is what drives P/Es to go below eight.”
Are you suggesting the presence or absence of intervention doesn’t matter to whether markets bottom out?
“Future prospects aren’t looking so great, but they haven’t been since 2007.”
Some may recall the U.S. stock market trying to find a bottom in March 2009, at which point the Fed invoked quantitative easing in response.
Assuming market participants have some semblance of rationality, they have been conditioned to believe the Fed will intervene to prevent the stock market from bottoming out. Unless the Fed changes its policy regime to prop up the market whenever it drops towards fundamental valuation levels, the kind of bottoming out some posters are suggesting might eventually happen, won’t happen.
“In the short term the stock market is a voting machine. In the long term it is a weighing machine.”
Or words that go something like that, according to Benjamin Graham.
If you can get enough people to “vote” for a stock then you can generate some interesting prices. (Look at what such voting did for the price of real estate.)
If you can get an entire population conditioned to vote for the entire stock market then the entire stock market can generate some interesting prices (again, look at what happened to real estate prices.)
And such voting works until it doesn’t - just as with everything else that has its price pumped up due to its specualtive nature. And when it stops working then the voting falls off and the weighing picks up.
“Which is why I’m baffled at where the markets have been for the past three years.
Future prospects aren’t looking so great, but they haven’t been since 2007.”
Presently, future outlook has nothing to do with it. The debasement of the dollar and the printing press do.
Of course, it’ll end badly. Less badly for us if we’re first or if we can manage to stick other countries with our decreptitude. The latter may cause a war, however.
I’m thinking the Plunge Protection Team stands ready to avoid allowing this. But I’d be interested in evidence to the contrary…
Bear we haven’t even been formally introduced yet!
America will become Greece soon with our out of control spending and deficits.
But no one saw it coming…
What we have to look forward to:
Ripped apart by financial crisis, Greek society in free-fall
November 01, 2012 - Associated Press
ATHENS, Greece – A sign taped to a wall in an Athens hospital appealed for civility from patients. “The doctors on duty have been unpaid since May,” it read, “Please respect their work.”
It has been three years since Greece’s government informed its fellow members in the 17-country group that uses the euro that its deficit was far higher than originally reported. It was the fuse that sparked financial turmoil still weighing heavily on eurozone countries. Countless rounds of negotiations ensued as European countries and the International Monetary Fund struggled to determine how best to put a lid on the crisis and stop it spreading.
“I start work at 2:30 a.m. and work ’till the afternoon, until about 4 p.m. Shouldn’t I have something to show for that? There’s no point in working just to cover my costs. … Tell me, is this a life?”
Private businesses have closed down in the thousands. Unemployment stands at a record 25 percent, with more than half of Greece’s young people out of work. Caught between plunging incomes and ever increasing taxes, families are finding it hard to make ends meet. Higher heating fuel prices have meant many apartment tenants have opted not to buy heating fuel this year. Instead, they’ll make do with blankets, gas heaters and firewood to get through the winter. Lines at soup kitchens have grown longer.
Greece’s sclerotic justice system has been hit by a protracted strike that has left courts only functioning for an hour a day as judges and prosecutors protest salary cuts.
Healthcare spending has been slashed as the country struggles to reduce its debt. Public hospitals complain of shortages of everything from gauzes to surgical equipment. Pharmacies regularly go on strike or refuse to fill subsidized social security prescriptions because government funds haven’t paid them for the drugs already bought. Benefits have been slashed and hospital workers often go unpaid for months.
Looks like the Republican/public employee union endgame has already been implemented there.
That’s what you get when the same generation is in charge for 30 years, and doesn’t care about the future.
The Greeks invented Republicanism!
A friend from Greece visited. I asked about the reported collapse in the health care system. He said his family pays the doctor themselves out of pocket and they have no issues getting care. He explained if you pay the doctors they will work and find the supplies they need. If you don’t pay - well not so much. Just imagine a system where you actually have to pay for services rendered. It’s so novel I can’t even entertain the idea.
Just imagine a system where you actually have to pay for services rendered ??
What if its treatment for Leukemia…Heart surgery…Breast Cancer..
The Greek’s have free medical care but they aren’t getting treated for Leukemia…Heart surgery…Breast Cancer anymore. The kitty is empty.
Sounds like mis-placed priorities….
Sounds like mis-placed priorities…. ??
Coming to a country near you.
No healthcare for unemployed Greeks
AS the head of Greece’s largest oncology department, Dr Kostas Syrigos thought he had seen everything. But nothing prepared him for Elena, an unemployed woman who had been diagnosed with breast cancer a year before she came to him.
By that time, her cancer had grown to the size of an orange and broken through the skin, leaving a wound that she was draining with paper napkins.
“When we saw her we were speechless,” said Dr Syrigos, the chief of oncology at Sotiria General Hospital in central Athens. “Everyone was crying. Things like that are described in textbooks, but you never see them because, until now, anybody who got sick in this country could always get help.”
Read more: No healthcare for unemployed Greeks - Columnist - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/opinion/columnist/no-healthcare-for-unemployed-greeks-1.162619#ixzz2Bpx6oFfR
“Sounds like mis-placed priorities….”
…now about all that wealth owned by those who write the laws and regulate them…
Coming to a country near you ??
Like I said….Misplaced priorities….
What matters more to you personally - healthcare or freedom?
Individuals acting freely, or individuals living longer yet with restricted freedom?
Take your pick. Increasingly, your choice is limited to one or the other. But not both.
A while back, I’d said rather live 60 years in freedom than 80 years in servitude. Caused consternation among various posters here.
Which do you opt for?
I believe that this is what SF Bay Area is driving at (could be wrong, if so, Area can correct me).
You are on a roll this morning
Take your pick. Increasingly, your choice is limited to one or the other. But not both ??
Hmmmm….Why not both ???
On Health Care;
I see it as a right not a privilege…Its really that simple for me…The only real problem I have with universal health care is people who make no effort in maintaining decent health be it diet or exercise…
Well, I guess I just don’t see the correlation between the two…Maybe you or others can enlighten me…
As far as loss of freedom, well sure but its due to a intrusive federal & state government…
A while back, I’d said rather live 60 years in freedom than 80 years in servitude ??
What if it was 16 years instead of 60 because of no health care..??
Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell, you are talking Paul Krugman’s Nobel prize winning thesis. The half life of an unemployed Silicon Valley techie is about 12 hours. It’s about the only thing honest I’ve ever seen out of Krugman. He’s since become a political hack. Sad. He sacrificed his integrity for a meal ticket.
scdave see Greece. Health care is a right in Greece. Ironically they don’t get health care any longer.
Hopefully, one day I can “enlighten” you.
Not because you’re evil or stupid or any other such thing, but because you kick @ss. I’ve developed quite a liking for you lately even though we disagree on how to get to that social libertarianism/fiscal conversativism we both say we seek.
SF Bay Area:
Over the past few years, Krugman has mostly been espousing the textbook economics that you learn if you take an undergraduate macroeconomics course at a college with a good economics department. And the events of the past few years have proven his brand of economics to be mostly correct.
MightyMike, “The road to serfdom” will set you free.
“Ironically they don’t get health care any longer.”
In Greece or the US, the unemployed don’t get health care. In either country, if you can pay for it, you do.
Nobody lives forever.
I plan too, so far so good.
Insurance can cover the one in 1000 rare medical cases that require expensive innovate experimental treatment. It’s care for the 2/3 of the population that are land whales and have not exercised or cared properly for themselves in decades. That’s where the cost is in medicine and is why Obamacare will spew oceans of red ink. But insurance companies should not be allowed to drop coverage for the land whales. It’s not fair. They’re entitled to get something for nothing. The Democrats promised.
This is why people are reluctant to hire land whales.
I worked at a place that had a bunch of old fat guys on the payroll, and the insurance was eating them alive (the company, not the old fat guys).
It’s more complicated than that.
You have defensive testing, in which doctors will test for a whole bunch of illnesses that isn’t clinically necessary just to avoid getting sued.
You have doctors salaries keep up with inflation, but the rest of the population’s salaries going down.
You have CEOs making way more than their employees. In other developed countries, the average may bee 4-6 times their employees. It’s horrible greed.
You have insurance companies only wanting to insure healthy people, and try to kick sick people off when they have already paid. The middle man, if you will, is a huge issue. Especially since it’s for profit.
You have places like nursing homes that receive a hefty amount of money from the government (medicare/medicaid), yet they are allowed to be for profit.
You have non profit hospitals who are really for profits and horribly corrupt.
You have rampant fraud.
You have people using their specialists as their pcps. You also have a huge shortage of primary care physicians, and people unwilling to see that preventative medicine should be routine.
You have additives, refined flours, trans fats, sugars, and food stuffs galore. That will make a lot of people gain weight even with exercise.
You have people who can afford insurance that think they are entitled to consume all the healthcare they can/want. This is a lot of people’s objections to a single payer system. They don’t want to have to “wait” to see the doctor. They want it NOW, because THEY matter the most.
And, even with all of that in mind, a lot of healthcare is good for the population as a whole. One thing that comes to mind is in order for vaccines to work, the majority of the population has to get them. Now, I’m not saying “free” (single payer) healthcare is THE solution, but it would probably be a step up from what we have. I do know that in other countries, they weigh the pros and cons of a treatment more than here. Quality of life would be more important than just life itself. For example, you might *gasp* let a 90 year old woman who is bedridden die when she codes for the 4th time. After all, medicine does not cheat death, it only prolongs it.
If you don’t go to UCLA and get your DPH, it will be a crime against our society, and I will personally be very disappointed in you.
Well, thank you for that suggestion! I’ve actually never thought of that, but just looked into it. This seems like a perfect way to combine my dream of being an MD and my advocate nature!
Approach it through the epidemiology and biostat program. If you’re serious, let me know.
India is like that. Mexico to some extent.
Most people call it a “bribe” though when government workers are involved.
The Foriegn Corrupt Practices Act prevents US companies (except for Walmart) from bribing government officials.
But healthcare is a God-given right. Why don’t the Greeks get it?
Imagine a system where every doctor equips and supplies her own surgery, laboratory, radiologic modalities, neonatal, cardiac, and intensive care unit. (How about not?) The best you can hope for is a boutique internist (retainer and fee for service) who manages your case and directs you to the various conglomerates and group practices who can treat you with first world technologies. At least if you’re expecting a first world medicine outcome….
Try carrying a gun or bear spray next time and you wouldn’t have racked up those expensive hospital and rehabilitation bills. You live in the middle of nowhere and take no responsibility for your own safety. Just going out to commune with nature oblivious to the possible dangers.
I wonder why I would have to pay for your lack of preparedness? Under your new “community” system I would have to do just that. Free sh.t creates free loaders and irresponsibility.
I had a side arm (and a knife and my two guard dogs, for that matter) at the time I was attacked, (while I was working, as it turns out) and my (private payer) Blue Cross insurance policy had been in effect for thirty+ years.
After rescuing myself and getting myself off the mountain to the emergency transport my ample taxes pay for (and my ER doc sister provides for free) I called upon my contractual arrangement with my insurance company — to whom I pay premiums — to fulfill their end of the bargain and put me back together. My uncovered medical care was donated by friends (thank you, HBB) and physicians. Then I “rehabilitated” myself, at home. In my spare time.
Why do you just blow thought-chunks out of your arse, nicky? Don’t you know how foolish you sound?
It will be interesting to hear what you have to say about “taking responsibility” after your legs have been smashed to glue in a head-on with a big rig some day. I’m sure you could have avoided it by staying off the highway. You DO carry health insurance don’t you?
I’ll take my lumps and stumps and just use my arms to beat down the commies
“Try carrying a gun or bear spray next time and you wouldn’t have racked up those expensive hospital and rehabilitation bills.”
Are you vying for the prize for the most cold-hearted comment on the HBB?
Also the most ignorant? Read the book.
No, I figure if you put yourself out there in the public eye, you have to expect that people may want to know what you did to protect yourself in the wilderness. I don’t like when tragedy strikes another human being if that is what you are asking.
That one got my vote alright.
Greeks wary of brothel owners bearing gifts after school donation
Parents protest after needy school in port of Patras is forced to return madam’s €3,000 cheque.
In a country ravaged by recession, Soula Alevridou stands out, in more ways than one. Where other Greek entrepreneurs have fallen on hard times, her business is booming – so much so that she has been forced to open new premises to meet demand.
With success has come largesse, but in a nation where few can afford to give – or are too busy stashing their ill-gotten gains abroad – her generosity has touched a nerve.
Alevridou, owner of two brothels in the central Greek town of Larissa, is at the centre of a furore after local officials insisted that a primary school return her donation to cover the costs of textbooks and a photocopier.
REO inventory is cranking up once again. The REO sitting around just got slashed even lower and new REO stacked ontop.
This is the next leg down.
Can you please post some reference material?
Please go back to fourth grade; “google.com” does not qualify as an adequate reference.
Speaking of which, I was wondering about that the other day: how do fourth-graders learn to end-note/reference things that they find on the internet? When I was a kid, the encyclopedia was fair game, but you had to reference it by publisher/year of publication/etc. What does the reference look like for a wikipedia page?
“What does the reference look like for a wikipedia page?”
Wiki-up just about any subject you can think of and at the end of the wiki response will be a section loaded with references.
I love wiki too…
…but you totally missed my point.
My point is that the content of any given page changes over time. Some of them change frequently.
Whatever quote one lifted from a wiki page might not still be there by the time someone goes to the page to have a look at the reference.
The printed-on-paper word is static, and will still say what it did when you referenced it. The online word is dynamic, and may well not say in the future what it used to back when you referenced it.
It’s called “do you own work”. Track your own area…. bish.
Dear Matt Drudge: Stop the race stories
“Dear Mr. Drudge:
I have written before that, whether I like it or not, you are the one of the most influential forces in modern media, possibly THE most influential single player. You tower above your peers in what you do. Despite my failed efforts, no liberal or Democrat has even tried to create a legitimate competitor to what you do. But with your influence comes power, and with power comes responsibility, and the Drudge Report in recent months has become inundated, and saturated and permeated with baiting stories about the president’s race, and about blacks generally. These are beneath the standards you should set for yourself and your profession.
You should be, and I hope you will be, a better citizen and more worthy professional than is suggested by the sheer number of race-related and often race-baiting stories that you regularly banner on the Drudge Report.
Am I suggesting you are a racist? Absolutely not. I am sure in your personal relationships you are a gentleman of integrity and fairness. Am I suggesting you are giving aid and comfort to those who are racist, or those who play the politics of race for partisan gain? Absolutely. You bet. A visit to the Drudge Report at any given time in recent months bears witness to story after story, time and time again, day after day, week after week, month after month, of a laundry list of stories with racial innuendo and suggestion and implication that I would like to believe are below the standards you would set for yourself and your profession.”
not one specific example provided.
I got a better one than Drudge;
Ted Nugent says he’ll be ‘dead or in jail’ if Obama wins again - NBC …
entertainment.nbcnews.com/_…/11248594-ted-nugent-says-hell-be-d…Apr 17, 2012 – Updated 1:50 p.m. PT: Reuters reports that Mitt Romney’s campaign was calling for civility on Tuesday after Ted Nugent’s comments before an …
Secret Service met with Nugent to let him know they can accomodate his wishes.
He can be the first political prisoner of American communism.
Did you miss the memo that the McCarthy era ended fifty years ago?
Good night, and good luck!
Is it unfair to describe Paul Ryan as a latter-day Eugene McCarthy?
The McCarthy era should have run its full course.
So do you all think we’ll go over the fiscal cliff? Are the Under-250’s going to pay $3-4K in extra taxes for 2013? My guess says… yes, but only for a month or two.
When those tax cuts expire, the public will start screaming. Then Obama will simply pull out the Senate bill which had continued the tax cut for only the Under-250’s — passed by Dem Senators and blocked by R’s in the House — and say to the R’s in the House: “Every day you sit there coddling the rich, the middle class pays more and more in taxes. Are you the party of tax cuts or not? Whose side are you on? The rich who gave you the campaign contributions or the people who actually voted for you?” Boehner’s in a binder and he knows it.
I hope the scenario you mentions happens. I would find it hilarious to watch what Boehner & Co will do. On one hand, the average Republican in Alabama/Arizona/Kentucky/Arkansas will be getting f***ed. On the other hand, the .1% that actually fund GOP politics will be demanding they hold out and protect The John Galt Club from eeeevil taxes.
Are you retarded? Or are you just part of the FSA? Has to be one or the other…or more likely both.
So basically - nothing will change.
obama will play the same old class warfare card again and again and again.
Maybe he will switch to the race card every few months to change things up again.
What leadership. What a uniter. What a healer.
There is enough drama to go around, that’s all we can say for sure. Will a President bought and paid for by the banks and Wall Street turn on his sponsors? Will the Congress Critters? Will there just be a lot of noise about it while the rest of us get the shaft?
Oxide, if we go over the fiscal cliff, in fact if we even get close we go into a recession. How do we get out of that recession? The normal tools include lowering interest rates and increasing governmental spending which are both of the table. If Obama wants a recession the rest of this term than he will play the game you describe. If not he will except the additional revenue of closing loopholes and not insist on rate increases.
I thought the Bush tax cuts were ‘tax cuts for the rich’?
Oh that is such a tiny lie, why would you concern yourself?
“When those tax cuts expire, the public will start screaming. Then Obama will simply pull out the Senate bill which had continued the tax cut for only the Under-250’s — passed by Dem Senators and blocked by R’s in the House — and say to the R’s in the House: “Every day you sit there coddling the rich, the middle class pays more and more in taxes. Are you the party of tax cuts or not? Whose side are you on? The rich who gave you the campaign contributions or the people who actually voted for you?” Boehner’s in a binder and he knows it.”
I get it, you need to keep the OPM-to-DC funnel going. Your job and your house price are at stake.
At this point I actually want to see one party rule for a while, the hornets nest needs to be stirred. Like I said yesterday, today’s political rejects are tomorrows radicals. If I were a repub congressman I wouldn’t care how Obama framed the debate, I would completely ignore him.
Any thoughts on the likelihood of a fiscal cliff compromise?
1) How likely?
2) How achieved?
Obama says wealthy should pay more in taxes
President Barack Obama waves as he leaves the East Room of the White House in Washington, Friday, Nov. 9, 2012, after he spoke about the economy and the deficit. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)
2 hours ago • Associated Press
President Barack Obama says he won’t accept a plan to avert the so-called fiscal cliff that doesn’t ask the wealthy to pay more in taxes.
In Saturday’s radio and Internet address, Obama says the election showed support for his “balanced” approach and Congress can provide certainty by extending tax cuts for middle-class families.
House Speaker John Boehner says in the Republican address Congress should not raise tax rates on Americans and instead focus on closing tax loopholes, lowering rates and fixing entitlement programs. Boehner says he is hopeful the two sides can come up with an agreement that would pass Congress.
As someone who should be $250k+ in the next year or two, I don’t mind higher taxes on the amount above 250k at all. I would gladly pay it as a price of ensuring that our infrastructure gets modernized, our entitlements are reformed and made solvent, and our budget deficits are brought into line with revenues. I would not want the money spent on fighting more wars or buying more bombs. On the other hand, I would not mind if some money goes to give healthcare to NYCdj or any other disadvantaged person, even if I would label them as “lazy” or “entitled”. Providing health care, at some basic level (preventative check ups, immunizations) is a smart move for a country to address problems before people turn 65 and get Medicare anyway.
The new top marginal income tax bracket for small business owners in California in 2013 under current law:
3.8% Medicare uncapped
3.8% Obamacare uncapped
13.3% CA State tax (Prop 30 passed)
You keep 39.5%.
How much higher do you think it should go?
In principle I have to agree with you about where the money *should* go. But the truth is the money won’t actually go there. At least I don’t see either party supporting such an agenda. I hope I’m proven wrong.
I was rooting for Ron Paul but he went down in flames. America is not ready for a constitutional republic. At the republican convention friends of mine who are Ron Paul supporters contending to be delegates were dragged out of the building by jack booted police just to make it perfectly clear that no support for Ron Paul would be tolerated. That pesky habeas corpus is too bothersome - no time for a trial - clearly the “People’s President” needs a fleet of drones flying over America to kill “terrorists” on command. So we’ll be enjoying another four years of $1 trillion + budget deficits, massive central bank money printing and escalating taxes. California just voted and approved a new top 13.3% tax rate. That will make the 2013 top marginal tax rate 60.5% in California under current law. So there will be plenty of money to put a drone on every corner of the U.S. Paying down the debt - making the system solvent long term are not even on the agenda as far as I can see. Again I hope I’m proven wrong.
Here is a link to the youtube video my friend put up of the Louisiana State Republican Convention, you can hear his voice in there saying “Make Way!” He’s a doctor.
You’re also not counting other taxes. Sales tax takes another 6-9% out of your number. RE tax is very variable, but in the 250K+ crowd, you’re probably looking at 10-20K in RE tax a year.
Once you hit the top marginal rates in a high tax state (CA, NJ, etc), you are likely looking at something like 30% of your income is actually yours, the other 70% is paid on taxes. And yet, people still cry for higher taxes on the “rich”. There’s just not that much more there to take.
Now, if you live in a low tax state, and you’re truly rich (10M+ investment capital), yes, you could pay a VERY low tax rate. Assuming you only bought muni-bonds, you could, in fact, be paying close to 0 in income taxes. Thing is, people crying for higher taxes on the “rich” never talk about that level of income (where almost all of the gains are capital or dividends), they are talking about high-income (W2 or self-employment) folks that are already paying, at a minimum, at least 50% of their income to taxes. 250K income sounds like “the rich” and, some of those people may someday in fact be rich, but, to class them with the Warren Buffets and finance wizards on Wall St is disingenuous.
Thing is, there’s not enough Buffets and Wall St wizards to make a dent in the tax burden. Even if you take everything above 1M at 100%, it’s still not enough because there aren’t enough taxpayers at that level.
To give an order of reference, taxes are by far my biggest expense every year; more than 2X what I pay for my house. More than I pay for my house, 2 cars, and all my vacations and holidays every year. More than all my other recurring bills combined. And yet, according to many, still not enough.
And yet my Silicon Valley based employer is hiring like crazy at the Santa Clara campus, while hiring at the campus in “low tax” Colorado campus is much more subdued.
I’ve talked with my Santa Clara colleagues and they have expressed in clear terms that they are NOT interested in moving to “cow town” Denver.
Overtaxed, you are talking my book. Unfortunately when I bring this up suddenly the “tax the rich” supporters suddenly lose the ability to do math. It’s like a acute form of autism. I don’t know why…
Colorado, er - I can tell you why many high tech workers don’t move to Colorado. At least for many people I know. I don’t even know if I should post this publicly. But here it goes. In Silicon Valley most of the workers in high tech are from Asia. When they complain to me about the high cost of living here and the high taxes I often bring up the option of moving to Colorado and expanding there. In response they conjure up and image from the movie “Deliverance.” A look of abject horror and fear comes over their faces which turn pale and their eye dilate. They actually think you guys are a bunch of red neck hill billies that are going to gang rape them. I’m not making this up! I get the same reaction over and over. Asian high tech workers stay in Silicon Valley because it is safe (in their mind).
and they have expressed in clear terms that they are NOT interested in moving to ??
To anywhere else pretty much…
Asian high tech workers stay in Silicon Valley because it is safe (in their mind) ??
It is also a mirror image…When they look in their children’s classroom, across the street or down the hall at work they see people that look like them…
Well I see more and more moving to places like Texas and Oregon. I guess they’ve got a critical mass in those places at this point. But the “heartland” of America - not so much.
No, the United States is not ready for a constitutional republic. That much is apparent.
Modern people don’t have the guts. Or the fortitude.
They talk about “priorities” as if freedom isn’t even on the radar screen.
The Idea, however, will live on. It will survive, largely underground, largely unnoticed.
One day it will flourish, but not likely here and not likely in our lifetimes.
” They actually think you guys are a bunch of red neck hill billies that are going to gang rape them.”
You should take them down to Bakersfield for a weekend. I think there are more rednecks in the central valley then there are in texas.
I often bring up the option of moving to Colorado and expanding there. In response they conjure up and image from the movie “Deliverance.” A look of abject horror and fear comes over their faces which turn pale and their eye dilate.
This may be an emotional reaction but let’s look at the facts.
The fact is if you are a good technologist in Silly Valley, you’ll get a job in no time. It’s a network effect. All the techies are there because all the techies are there.
Whereas in Denver or Boston or Salt Lake City or Madison, you have fewer choices of employers. You simply don’t have your pick and could very well land up in a bad situation.
The same goes for financiers in NYC, London, Tokyo v/s say, Paris, Milan or Chicago. The latter are provincial in the narrow sense of the employment opportunities. You are giving up all future opportunity.
It’s not as irrational as you think. Plus, you always can move to cow-town at a later date.
MacBeth for for president 2016!
Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell, you are talking Paul Krugman’s Nobel prize winning thesis. The half life of an unemployed Silicon Valley techie is about 12 hours.
You posted in the wrong thread. Stuff happens.
Bully to Krugman for actually getting something right.
Optionality gives you, well, a lot of options.
You can’t be an actor in Boston and hope to make Hollywood. You can’t be a financier in Manila or New Delhi or Paris or St. Petersburg.
It simply doesn’t matter what the good qualities of Paris or Boston or St. Petersburg are!
Network effects rule supreme in certain industries.
“Network effects rule supreme in certain industries.”
Music is another of those industries.
Juilliard is Juilliard.
You have Mannes not quite three stops away on the 1 train (about 7 mins) but it ain’t no Juilliard.
Those 7 mins make all the difference in your career. There’s no point to going to Mannes, in my opinion.
“There’s no point to going to Mannes, in my opinion.”
Do their graduates get work? Perhaps it is a good school to go to if you are not going to make it as a soloist, but still want to work as a musician.
Do their graduates get work?
Ummm, no! Maybe the best ones if they accept a job in Oklahoma.
Look, I love music as much as you do. Possibly more than you do since I don’t have to make a living off of it. The supply has been more than than a demand for about four straight decades.
I just feel sorry for them all but not that sorry.
The standards have never been higher. I was at Juilliard to hear the kids play at the Elliott Carter centenary. They not only could play it effortlessly but they had the “idiom” down cold!
These are 22-year olds who can play like demi-gods.
However, there’s no future for them. That’s economics.
It’s just sad.
“Look, I love music as much as you do. Possibly more than you do since I don’t have to make a living off of it.”
I have to correct you there. I don’t have to make a living off it, either — I structured my life years ago to make sure of that. And needless to say, I don’t play as well as Gil Shaham. I continue to play, despite painful self-awareness of my shortcomings.
If I didn’t love music so much, I would have quit playing years ago.
In response they conjure up and image from the movie “Deliverance.” A look of abject horror and fear comes over their faces which turn pale and their eye dilate. They actually think you guys are a bunch of red neck hill billies that are going to gang rape them
I have an anecdote that fits that to a tee. Some years ago an Asian female colleague came over for a biz trip from SoCal. At the hotel where she checked in (in Loveland) there were some other guys checking in wearing cowboy hats. She nearly crapped a brick.
I later told her that had anyone tied to hurt her, that those guys in the cowboy hats would have come to her rescue in the flash of a eye.
Let’s talk offline - you’d be shocked how different music afficionados and music performers actualy are (even if the afficionados are performers themselves.)
There’s a shocking (but not in retrospect) difference.
cba DOT fed DOT ihg AT gmail
Like the difference between sound engineers and audiophiles?
Carl - Please amplify. I am, and have been both. Am I schizo? -
Huh huh…”amplify”…I get it.
Yes you are :-). But I don’t think sound engineers can ever be real audiophiles because they can see behind the curtain.
The fact is if you are a good technologist in Silly Valley, you’ll get a job in no time. It’s a network effect. All the techies are there because all the techies are there.”
That is correct. Plus with so many jobs around it’s harder for your employer to screw you over but maybe thats saying the same thing.
They don’t like guns either
Most people who I know over $250k (myself included) would gladly pay more if it meant that it helped put the country and it’s deficit/debt on the right track.
What I (and others I know) object to is the attempt to raise taxes with some promise to get us on a sustainable path later.
For that reason I hope Boehner holds out…it’s the last bit of leverage he has. We need the grand bargain (like Simpson Bowles) now, or else we will get our measly $80B tax increase and be running $900B deficits instead of $1T deficits for years before the Democrats grow a pair and tell the rest of the country that their promised entitlements need to be changed.
When Simpson Bowles came out in December 2010, every person in our office over $250k who were in line to pay a lot more in taxes (and who are Republicans–with some voting for O the first time) wanted something like it pushed through immediately. The greatest frustration with Obama was that he didn’t take a stand on how to fix the deficit…only focusing on raising taxes, and not on fixing the entitlement problem.
Obama put Simpson Bowles in the circular file bin the day he received it. The man has absolutely not interest in balancing the budget for the good of the country long term.
Yup. We’ll see if he has changed in very short order.
Ho won without saying he would change anything. The people do not want any changes.
@Blue Skye…cool. Let’s raise $80 Billion in tax revenue, and run NEARLY $1T in deficits as far as the eye can see.
I’m sure we’ll get to $1T pretty quickly once the rest of the world decides to charge us higher interest rate for our worthless paper.
The people do not want any changes.
Sure they do: more bread and more circuses.
“Most people who I know over $250k (myself included) would gladly pay more if it meant that it helped put the country and it’s deficit/debt on the right track.”
You are a lying out of your a$$. I bet you shelter your income with the best of them, just like the rest of the master political race.
LOL. I paid 28.5% of my AGI to the Feds, and 9.3% to the state of CA.
If I’m sheltering my income, I’m doing a terrible job.
You need to sober up.
I would gladly pay it as a price of ensuring that our infrastructure gets modernized, our entitlements are reformed and made solvent, and our budget deficits are brought into line with revenues.
joesmith, some of us are bringing up the point that the money won’t be spent by the current administration on your priorities. I should say that just because the political realities are what they are doesn’t mean you don’t have a valid and noble point. We should separate the two things not to dismiss what you are saying out of hand. Americans have a long history of stepping up to the plate when the time comes. So keep pushing your ideas - get them out there. Maybe political realities will change - some day…
SF Bay area. There are plenty of high tech consultants in Silicon Valley and Southern California whose W2 shows low income yet they get paid an extra $1400 per week in cash. It is legal no matter what the communist shyster on the east coast fabricates. And this is what keeps these people hopping from gig to gig in California. If not for that, they would be in Seattle, Austin, San Antonio, Nashua, Tampa, Dallas/Ft Worth, Houston, or whatever.
In a few weeks my client will change and the new client is either still in my part of L.A. or in the O.C.
“they get paid an extra $1400 per week in cash”
Per diem? I hope you have kept receipts to back that up. As deep a hole as the state of California is in, they may find it fruitful to audit techies.
“As someone who should be $250k+ in the next year or two, I don’t mind higher taxes on the amount above 250k at all. I would gladly pay it as a price of ensuring that our infrastructure gets modernized, our entitlements are reformed and made solvent, and our budget deficits are brought into line with revenues.”
A study I read several years back talked about how high taxes and low taxes are not indicative of how happy people are with their tax rates; the real measure of happiness is shown by how well they feel their taxes have been used. Good roads, good schools, safe streets equal happiness; potholes, failing grades, and high crime equal unhappiness. (That probably explains a lot of the states with low taxes being unhappy with their “high tax rates”; if they feel the money is being misused, the taxes are always too high.)
This applies to California in that we know our budget is completely and totally screwed up. We’re cutting money from education and state parks at the same time as we continue funding a high-speed rail line out in the middle of the desert (in communities that never appeared after the crash.) A recent article by a financial magazine put California as the second-worst run state (only beat out by Kentucky.) So when we see top tax rates over 60%, and pretty well know that we won’t get anything practical out of the deal, it’s a recipe for strong dissatisfaction.
(P.S. Denver a cow town? It’s the biggest city I’ve lived in, and the first place I ever saw what are now called “hipsters.” You want cow town, try Laramie.)
Heh heh…that’s true. Both places have their good and bad, but if I could make the same money either place I’d choose Laramie.
Is the mortgage interest deduction still sacrosanct, despite a growing number of MSM articles correctly explaining how it disproportionately benefits a small, wealthy minority of U.S. homeowners?
How many who serve in Congress are too dumb to see through the NAR’s lies and distortions of the facts?
Who Really Benefits From Interest Deductions
The New York Times
By LISA PREVOST
Published: October 25, 2012
REAL estate and building industry groups have loudly condemned proposals by both presidential campaigns to shrink the mortgage interest deduction. Central to their arguments is the long-hallowed deduction’s value to the middle class. But a closer look at who benefits suggests that this perception, though prevalent, is not accurate.
To begin with, most taxpayers do not benefit from the deduction at all. This is because they do not itemize deductions on their federal income tax returns. According to Joseph Rosenberg, a research associate at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, only about 30 percent of taxpayers itemize, rather than take the standard deduction. And the majority of these itemizers are upper-middle and upper-income households.
Within that privileged category, the people who tend to derive the greatest dollar benefit from the mortgage interest deduction are households earning $100,000 to $500,000 a year.
“About two-thirds of the total benefit go to that group in the 80th through the 99th income percentiles,” Mr. Rosenberg said.
For those households, by the center’s calculations, the tax benefit of the deduction amounts to about 1.5 percent of after-tax income. By way of comparison, the value to households earning $40,000 to $50,000 is closer to 0.3 percent of after-tax income; for households earning $50,000 and $75,000, it is 0.7 percent.
Why is this so? One reason is simply that people who have more money are more likely to have expensive homes and bigger mortgages. They may also have second homes, and under the current rules, mortgage interest may be deducted on those as well, up to a cap of $1 million in debt.
The other factor is that the value of the subsidy increases along with your tax bracket.
For households in the 15 percent bracket, the tax benefit for every $1,000 of mortgage interest deducted is $150. That benefit rises to $350 for households in the 35 percent tax bracket.
Interestingly, despite its concentrated effect, various surveys have shown broad public support for the mortgage deduction. This is possibly because, in part, “lots of people who don’t itemize today may aspire to be itemizers in the future,” said Jed Kolko, the chief economist for Trulia, a real estate listing Web site.
That the deduction has been politically sacrosanct for so long reflects just how much it is prized by the itemizers of the moment, as well as those who are in the business of selling homes. “Policies that give concentrated benefits to a small number of people often survive better,” Mr. Kolko said, “because the benefit is great enough to make them resist changes in it. They have an incentive to organize to protect that benefit.”
That the deduction has been politically sacrosanct for so long reflects just how much it is prized by the itemizers of the moment, as well as those who are in the business of selling homes.
Prized by “itemizers”? LOL. Used house pimps profit and the expense of everyone else.
I agree - they could end it or just cap it. Either way for the sake of the people who own homes I hope they phase it out over several years and don’t end it in one year all at once like they did in the 1980’s. That would cause a major collapse in prices. It’s won’t hurt me. I decided not to buy until we bottom out. But it would be very painful for home owners to do this all at once. Just saying…
With interest rates as low as they are, the MID doesn’t amount to much. For me, it saves me approximately 2% of my income…way less than other tax increases that people seem to think are inconsequential.
I just realized…that’s how they can get rid of it. And THEN let rates rise.
Don’t you want to move out of CA before you buy? In Texas you can buy 4 times the size of a CA home for the same price or less.
“But it would be very painful for home owners to do this all at once.”
You’ll have to explain that one. I eagerly await.
The reason for this (the flow of MID “goodies” to high income households) is pretty straighforward, almost 1/2 of this country doesn’t pay any income tax to deduct anything against! So, of course it flows to high income households, they are, by definition, the only ones who can take a deduction.
Can’t reduce your income tax below 0 (well, actually, you can… But, that’s another conversation).
Overtaxed this post and your earlier one are very disturbing. How dare you introduce logic into the conversation! You mean tax cuts can apply only to taxpayers. Who would have thought.
Sorry, my mistake. I will immediately start posting about O’s death camps and his Muslim status to offset this bout of logical reasoning.
No, it’s because most households don’t get beyond the standard deduction.
If you have a $200k mortgage at 3.5%, that’s a total interest cost of $7k.
For a married couple, the standard deduction is more than that.
MID really matters if people live in high tax states, where state income tax can push people to itemize.
If you are married and have no kids, you would have to itemize to get the MID and your itemized deductions would have to exceed your standard deduction. If you have a low house payment and a relatively uncomplicated tax situation, you do not qualify.
Your post gets to the reason the NAR’s claim that middle-class households in flyover country benefit from the MID is a lie and a scam. Unless you have very large mortgage interest payments, the added advantage of itemizing over taking the standard deduction is likely to be negligible.
Unless you also pay tithing to your church.
People like my wife and I envied the elderly couple across the street whose house was assumed to be paid off when I bought. That, coupled with their far lower basis for MID from the start, seemed unfair until now.
Mortgage paid off before our sixties, no more benefit to itemizing taxes and no more MID.
Happy to have the simplicity.
I do not like the lack of a cap on MID for first and second houses (not necessarily homes).
Why does the MID have to be all or nothing? Just limit the MID to primary residences only with a cap up to, say $35K a year. Re bankrate’s mort calculator, $35K is the first year of interest on a $500K loan at 7%. That should cover the entire middle class and weed out the abuse.
If the MID went away as a part of a general move to simplify the tax code and promote fairness, it would be a great thing. If you want to help people raising families, you could modify the way that dependents are handled. The costs of the MID outweigh the benefits by a large margin. And most of the benefits accrue to Realtards (TM) who use it as a talking point when trying to get lower middle class buyers to jump into the housing market. In reality, of course, such people would be better off renting.
We had a recent candidate for president for who proposed exactly this.
He lost. Nothing is going to change. Get used to it.
If the MID went away as a part of a general move to simplify the tax code and promote fairness, it would be a great thing.
“We had a recent candidate for president for who proposed exactly this.”
Reference, please? (Oh, I forgot: Propagandists never use references…)
If you want to help people raising families, you could modify the way that dependents are handled.
The MID isn’t about raising families, it’s about encouraging people to choose the forced savings program that is a mortgage. The two are NOT the same.
This bolsters my point. The idea that realtors push is that MID –> helps middle class families avoid housing –> makes communities stronger (and other BS reasons).
Obviously there is no reason someone can’t be a good citizen and raise children well in a rental house situation.
Is the mortgage interest deduction still sacrosanct ??
Absolutely not… Neither is property tax deduction….Look for elimination or more likely a much smaller cap…Say; 250k…Maybe only a “one time” opportunity also…
“Neither is property tax deduction”
The property tax “deduction” isn’t really a deduction. Nowhere in the tax code that I know of do you have to pay “tax on tax”. Property taxes aren’t really “your money”, so paying income tax on something that is in fact a tax is pretty clearly double taxation. The MID is not the same, that’s a deduction for interest, not for taxes. But, taxing property tax is probably not going to happen anytime soon, that’s pretty blatantly unfair.
Thing is, it doesn’t much matter, if you removed the MID, almost everyone would take the standard deduction, so property taxes being deductible would matter very little to the general population.
so property taxes being deductible would matter very little to the general population ??
I disagree…It favors high property tax states….If California property owners lost their ability to deduct their property tax on their federal return you better believe it would hurt…
High tax states in general, yes, you’re correct. But in FL, without a state income tax, very few people would get over the std deduction without the MID. It would take a house that costs ~700K to get over the married/joint STD deduction. So, someone who has an income >250K. A very small slice of the population, for sure.
However, in CA, that’s not the case, you guys have a high income and property tax rate, so, I’d guess that houses in the 300-400K range would start to push into 10K+ in total taxes.
… 10k is more than half what the houses would rent for.
Nowhere in the tax code that I know of do you have to pay “tax on tax”.
So you don’t pay income tax on any of the income that you end up spending on sales taxes?
Yes, you do, but it is also deductible.
The current state of affairs with property tax being deductible is “consistent”; it lines up with the rest of the tax code.
The MID is the strange bird. Either all interest should be deductible (which, frankly, is probably the right answer; it was the case at one time, and is currently the case for business) or none should be (which is the likely answer at some point in the future and the MID is really the only carve out for individuals for this type of deduction).
However, this does cause some odd things to happen. If business can continue to deduct interest (which is very likely) but individuals cannot deduct mortgage interest, in many cases, it will make sense to sell your house to a corporation that you control and then rent it back to yourself. The rich will certainly (and probably already are) do this, which, in essence, will just make this deduction disappear for the HENRY class (high earner, not rich yet).
Yes, you do, but it is also deductible.
Did you read the first line of the page that you sent? Sales tax is only deductible if you don’t deduct income tax, and vice-versa.
In other words, it is effectively NOT deductible for most citizens, by a long shot.
The deduction for Sales tax must be re-approved by Congress before the end of they year or it expires.
Simpson Bowles IIRC suggests lowering the limit to $500k, and making it a credit (to benefit non-itemizers).
Simpson Bowles IIRC suggests lowering the limit to $500k ??
Thats just a budgetary deal….Elimination or severe restriction will come through major tax code reform…
It was their aim at including the MID in their tax reform program. They had one suggested track that eliminated it…another that changed it…
I get it Rental Watch but Simpson/Boles does not solve our problem…
IMO, we will get a complete re-write of the Federal Tax Code in the next two-three years…Figuring out how to collect appropriate taxes on the cash underground economy is critically important…
“Figuring out how to collect appropriate taxes on the cash underground economy is critically important…”
Perhaps Colorado has recently broken some ground there?
No-brainer fiscal cliff compromise:
- Keep the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
- End the MID for everyone.
Where is the downside?
How costly was “Superstorm” Sandy compared to other recent U.S. weather disasters? And is the NE getting back on its feet by now?
Sandy sends N.J. casinos to worst revenue drop ever
By WAYNE PARRY Associated Press
Publication: The Day
Published 11/10/2012 12:00 AM
Updated 11/09/2012 11:42 PM
Ben Fogletto The Press of Atlantic City
Crews board up Bally’s Atlantic City as Sandy approaches. The casinos lost a full weekend to the storm as October earnings fell 19.9 percent
Atlantic City, N.J. - Superstorm Sandy battered the Atlantic City casinos’ revenue last month, causing the biggest monthly decline ever.
Yet the storm left the casinos themselves virtually untouched - a fact that casino and tourism leaders are making a renewed effort to publicize.
Revenue at the 12 casinos was down 19.9 percent in October, due largely to the fact that the casinos were closed for four days. That edged out another storm-marred month, August 2011, when the approach of Hurricane Irene closed the casinos for three days and led to a 19.8 percent revenue plunge.
This year, the casinos closed for the storm on Oct. 28 and began reopening Nov. 2; it wasn’t until Nov. 5 that all 12 casinos were back in operation. That means the November revenues will likely be bad, as well.
In October, the gambling halls took in $209.4 million. Slot machine revenue fell 21.8 percent, to $149.1 million, while table game revenue decreased by 14.6 percent, to $60.2 million.
Earlier Friday, representatives of Atlantic City’s tourism and casino industries announced a renewed effort to publicize the fact that the resort came through the storm virtually unscathed, and urged people to return.
“This is essential for us - it’s our lifeblood, the iconic Boardwalk,” said Liza Cartmell, CEO of the Atlantic City Alliance, the new marketing arm of the casinos and the resort.
Tourism leaders went to great pains to dispute inaccurate media reports during the storm that Sandy had destroyed the Atlantic City Boardwalk, which was the first in the nation. In fact, it only wrecked a one-to-two-block stretch away from the casinos that had been damaged in previous storms, was already condemned, and was sealed off from pedestrians.
The boardwalk, upon which the nine oceanfront casinos front, was not damaged at all, said John Palmieri, executive director of the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority.
“The historic Boardwalk is in very good repair,” he said. “Everything was really ready to reopen the day after the storm.”
The poor casinos! We need the casinos!
Devastating Hurricane Sandy was the eleventh billion-dollar weather-related disaster in the U.S. so far this year, and the most expensive, said insurance broker AON Benfield in their November 8, 2012 Catastrophe Report. This puts 2012 in second place for most U.S. billion-dollar weather disasters behind 2011,
Global Catastrophe Recap
No, the New York area is still pretty devastated. NYC lost a lot of housing, and it doesn’t have any to spare. That was expected. Tens of thousands are still without power, because millions lost power. That was expected.
What was not expected was the gasoline shortage.
i thought a half a tank would be fine, but im doing a lot of walking the past few days…have to go to get milk eggs etc..
No one expected a gasoline shortage?? Really??
Did they not get any warning a hurricane was heading to NYC?
But Steve this has NEVER happened before seriously…no one can remember gas lines unless you go way back to the early 70’s…..maybe a day or two but not this…
One of the key problems for/of New Yorkers appears to be they thought themselves insulated.
I hope they’re realizing their own hands - and those of their neighbors - are the most dependable and immediate hands in existence. None are better.
Take pride also in one’s own capabilities. In addition to one’s own accomplishments.
The value of learning that you always had it in ya….wow. It’d be great if that was the takeaway from Sandy.
Anyone that watches the news of hurricanes striking Florida know that there are shortages of everything as panic buying becomes a mania.
“What was not expected was the gasoline shortage.”
A subway dependent population loses its subway system, and no gasoline shortage is expected? Note that traffic gridlock is a natural consequence of this sudden shock to the transportation system, and one of the least efficient uses of an automobile is to sit still with the engine running. (Don’t take my word for it — ask any of our regular posters from LA…)
Evidently, NYC is completely full of morons.
From the NY Times:
Unlike a number of other tunnels around the world, the Brooklyn-Battery does not have even a basic system to block water at its entrances. No gates or plugs or other barriers. Nor do Manhattan’s other tunnels. Defenseless under the storm’s ravages, the Brooklyn-Battery instead served as a drain for Lower Manhattan, filling with nearly 100 million gallons of water.
Yes i was surprised at how easy it was to flood them…
But then if the tunnel was plugged that water would have been a lot higher in tribeca and could have even flooded an even wider area….so maybe it was a blessing in disguise for lots of people who live around there.
“Evidently, NYC is completely full of morons.”
Anyone who saw the movie The Day After Tomorrow should realize that NYC is vulnerable to flooding.
“How costly was “Superstorm” Sandy compared to other recent U.S. weather disasters?”
bailouts are coming
How about some “Local Market Observations”…..
CT NPR on thursday stated prices fell YoY across CT, are still falling and “expect them to be even lower next year”.
The northeast and New England is next to go through the Florida process.
Has Florida even gone through the “Florida process”? They still seem to be playing “hide the distress”.
“Has Florida even gone through the “Florida process”?
In a word, no. Prices in desirable hoods have been in suspended animation since 2009. And I expect them to remain there for as far as the bailouts can see.
Posted: 6:00 a.m. Friday, Nov. 9, 2012
South Florida foreclosure discounts shrinking
By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Buying a South Florida foreclosure isn’t the slam dunk steal it once was, according to a new report that found shrinking discounts on distressed properties.
Homebuyers in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami Dade counties could expect only a 2.9 percent savings in September on the purchase of a foreclosed home compared to if the same house was sold at a non-distressed price, said analysts at the real estate analysis firm Zillow.
That discount is down from 6.8 percent during the same time last year and a whopping 22.7 percent lower than the savings experienced in August 2008 — the peak foreclosure month in South Florida, according to Zillow.
The report, scheduled for release this morning, found the nationwide foreclosure discount in September was 7.7 percent, down from 9 percent last year and 23.7 percent in August 2009.
General silicon valley;
I see bifurcated market….Many area’s are $500. per square foot +…..Drive 20 miles and its $250….Drive 40 miles and its $150….80 miles its $100.
Inventory is at historic lows in the $500. per foot area’s and in these particular area’s are at or likely above the 2007 peak…
And don’t even get me started on the really pricy area’s…Its $1000. per foot and up in those locations…
And I expect them to remain there for as far as the bailouts can see.
So even less incentive to buy a house then!
If prices aren’t going up, the houses are still deteriorating. Sounds like future discounts to me.
No price changes, no interest rate changes. Why not just
wait and see what the future brings?
Cute p1mping, BTW. Very cute.
Watch those discounts go back up if Florida ever starts to get rid of the distressed inventory with any speed…they are still at over 20% of all their mortgages being non-current.
@scdave, I think the last I checked, per Zillow, Mountain View was above the peak…remarkable…
I think the last I checked, per Zillow, Mountain View was above the peak…remarkable…
And yet the rent in Mountain View, CA that my sister pays in a prime part of the town is lower than ever in the last 7 years.
Facts are an inconvenient thing, no?
A, guarda sorella …
In other words, rents and prices still appear to be de-coupled, in a manner that fundamentals would not suggest should be the case, now six years after the bubble started to pop.
Sure. And your point would be?
My sister should take all her disposable income that can be used on everything from investment to frivolous trips to Italy and dump it into a depreciating asset?
Sounds like a lovely plan.
“And yet the rent in Mountain View, CA that my sister pays in a prime part of the town is lower than ever in the last 7 years.”
“My sister should take all her disposable income that can be used on everything from investment to frivolous trips to Italy and dump it into a depreciating asset?”
Housing pimps seem to assume there is an army of folks with buckets of money and boxes of stupid who are willing to throw away their lifestyles for the privilege of owning overpriced crap shacks.
The fact that the Fed and FedGov have to prop up housing demand in every which way, to prevent the market from bottoming out, shows you how wrong the housing pimps are.
My point would be only that this bubble is still freaking CRAZY!
I’m definitely not one to advocate that ANYONE buy a house when the market is still insane. Far from it, FPSS—you should know me better than that.
Just expressing my amazement; it is remarkable…
Far from it, FPSS—you should know me better than that.
Trust but verify.
LOL! That’s fair.
Aren’t rents overall in Mountain View above peak?
I know a person who works for an apartment owner in Mountain View (NOT a sample size of one). They control something like 10,000 apartment units throughout the Bay Area, including a number in Mountain View.
They are raising rents like crazy…in many cases by double digits.
Sorry to rain on everyone’s parade, but rents are indeed rising in Mountain View…scdave, care to chime in?
Take away the MID for second homes and FL will experience the process, all over again.
Yeah, it’s coming fast.
UBS just fired 10,000 people in NYC and London. That’s got to leave a severe mark.
The town of Stamford, CT is pretty much dependent on them.
Yeah Faster it was amazing that Stamford turned out to be more expensive then moving to Manhattan….when you figure the parking at Glenbrook, the monthly metro north, 2 cars sold 1 car parked the other at my moms…and lived basically car free for 5 years.
House in Old Greenwich 1960 $29k brand new. On market for 1 month @ $1.2 million Oct. 2012 under contract in 3 weeks.
Just because someone paid that for it doesn’t mean that reflects its true worth.
You do realize that price is not the same as value, right?
To paraphrase Graham (via Buffett), “Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.”
For intrinsic value, I’d still stick to rents and incomes.
“You do realize that price is not the same as value, right?”
You do realize until houses stop going under contract for obscene prices there is still a bubble, right?
“UBS just fired 10,000 people”
“The town of Stamford, CT is pretty much dependent on them.”
Evidently the town of Greenwich which is right next door is not.
Firstly, Greenwich is not right next door. Greenwich isn’t even on the express stop except for rush-hour (which is a courtesy to the plutocrats.)
Clearly, you’ve never been to either. It’s a bit like the difference between Compton and Beverly Hills (perhaps not quite that dramatic!)
And no, Greenwich is much more tied to NYC than to some scrappy Swiss bank. Anybody here knows that.
So what exactly are you pumping and p1mping?
I’d pay $50/sqft for your wife but then it would be as much as a house, wouldn’t it?
Faster is right downtown Stamford had a lot of very luxury condozes built just so the UBS workers could walk to work since they are open 24/7/365 tons of lights on at 1am as you pass by on I-95..
“Firstly, Greenwich is not right next door.”
Stamford Map - Map of Stamford, CT - Yahoo! Travel
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-map-474847-map_of_stamford_ct-i - 46k
“I’d pay $50/sqft for your wife”
You ever been to either Stamford or Greenwich?
I didn’t see a picture of your porky either. Stick that on the Maps so we can get get a square footage estimate!
Hey keyboard tomato eating tough guy, feeling really safe behind that screen hurling insults out about someone wife today are we?
“You ever been to either Stamford or Greenwich?”
Yep grew up 2 doors down from that house I just told you about in Old Greenwich, Mom still lives there. Graduated from Greenwich High in 1978. Starting left tackle, got a full ride football sholarship. We played Westhill (of Stamford), Stamford High and Stamford Catholic (now Trinity Catholic) every year. Stamford coach got fired my senior year for biting a chicken`s head off in front of his team during his pre-game speech and telling his players “that`s what I want you to do to Greenwich” we kicked their @ss, but they were spirited in the first half.
I should be getting back up to see Mom pretty soon, when I do I was going to try to hook up with RAL, maybe you could come too and you can tell me “I didn’t see a picture of your porky either. Stick that on the Maps so we can get get a square footage estimate!”
Greenwich Town Hal lAccording to the United States Census Bureau, the town has a total area of 67.2 square miles (174 km2), of which 47.8 square miles (124 km2) is land and 19.4 square miles (50 km2), or 28.88%, is water. In terms of area, Greenwich is twice the size of Manhattan. The town is bordered to the west and north by Westchester County, New York, to the east by the city of Stamford, and to the south by Long Island Sound.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich,_Connecticut - 191k -
So why not buy a zillion houses in Greenwich, Stamford and Old Greenwich (ain’t no Greenwich kids - it’s for the po’ people!)
Knock yourself out. Go all levered. Borrow a ton of money.
Nobody cares, ducks!
So why exactly you are p1mping houses in Greenwich?
I am not “p1mping” anything, I think it`s nuts. I think the prices in Greenwich are nuts, I think the prices in Stamford are nuts and I think the the prices in SE Florida are nuts. I think that the PTB keeping all these prices where they are is nuts.
I replied to your original “Yeah, it’s coming fast.” and I was pointing out that it isn`t. There seem to be very powerful forces keeping house prices up (next door to me in Jupiter Fl. and next door to my Mom in Old Greenwich Ct.) and I don`t think these powerful forces are going to let house prices drop anytime soon.
From this I was met with…..
“Just because someone paid that for it doesn’t mean that reflects its true worth.”
“Firstly, Greenwich is not right next door. Greenwich isn’t even on the express stop except for rush-hour (which is a courtesy to the plutocrats.)”
“Clearly, you’ve never been to either. It’s a bit like the difference between Compton and Beverly Hills (perhaps not quite that dramatic!)”
“I didn’t see a picture of your porky either. Stick that on the Maps so we can get get a square footage estimate!”
“So why not buy a zillion houses in Greenwich, Stamford and Old Greenwich (ain’t no Greenwich kids - it’s for the po’ people!)”
100 Skyview Dr
Stamford, CT 06902 $689,000 5 Bd 3 Ba 2,610 Sq Ft
Single Family Home Brokered by: WILLIAM RAVEIS REAL ESTATE - STAMFORD Save Listing
But you sir none the less are a tomato noodle.
In fairness Jethro….. and I believe you clearly understand this, Fairfield and in particular, the 95 corridor up to Rowayton is a suburb on NYC. I figure its Westchester East. I spent 4 years on a project in that hellish town Stamford. I couldn’t have done it one more day. Not one. Never again.
Anyways, the CT NPR report last week was an eye opener. It’s heading down in CT proper in a big way.
“I think that the PTB keeping all these prices where they are is nuts.”
Isn’t it a shame that political vitriol crowded out meaningful discussions on issues like this during campaign season?
Things are moving here in suburban Boston. Moving in the sense that property sells pretty quick - must be the low interest rate. And moving in that asking prices continue to drift down. Lots of overpriced stuff has been on the market for months even years. You see lots of stuff for sale below the purchase price which in some cases is years and years ago.
Here’s cute house but way too high at $450K. It was first listed about a year ago for $525. Look at the property taxes!
Here’s a nice place. Been on the market about year. Started at $470K. Bought in 2005 for $435K.
That little house would go for $650k and would sell in 3 days here right now…
My home is nicer than the 1st and about the same as the 2nd home (although mine has more attractive/traditional brick) exterior. And I paid 1/3 what those are selling for. Plus my garage is bigger and basement is completely new–new electrical, new bar area, new bathroom, etc.
Boston area is obviously still in a bubble. Because I am in a state with higher average incomes and still never saw anything that size for that price in the suburbs. $300/sq ft for a random suburban house? Crazy. I’d just rent and be proud about it.
Yes, I continue to rent very happily.
Inventory and prices now seem to have an inverser relationship in NW Phoenix metro. Inventory is going up and prices are starting to nudge down.
Cramdowns are coming. I read it right here, circa 2007.
Will this blog should be renamed ‘The Dem vs Rep blog”. It’s frustrating people mostly respond to political comments. This is a HOUSING blog; move to Politico, the Christian Science Monitor or Faux News if you wanna fight over politics.
There are so many crazy things happening housingwise in this country right now and people barely discuss them! It’s frustrating…
Especially considering there are only 7 condos for sale in the entire state of Texas.
You should buy them, Brett, before you are priced out forever from your downtown Austin paradise!
Hardly enough room to keep all your shotguns in a condo.
What about all your Opera LP’s and CD’s?
When the Apocalypse comes, how will some of us people actually enjoy our lives?
I think I need a gun because otherwise they might just take all my stuff away.
And then where would we be?
“Opera LP’s and CD’s”
I doubt the opportunity to use LP’s and CD’s will survive into a period when you need a gun to personally survive.
I think the irony was lost on EVEN you.
They’re wasting so much time on the the theoretical possibility when such things may be necessary (assuming it even happens which it won’t!) that they have lost all focus on enjoying the present.
I think I’ll go spin some Tristan and eat some fine bread, cheese and wine.
Maybe I’ll need a gun to enjoy myself. LOL
Aah, apocalpytic-behavior. So uniquely American (just like multiple jobs!)
Apparently there is a sizable share of the U.S. population which gets its jollies by shooting firearms.
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Thelonious Monk’s firearms are doing a perfectly good job at the moment!
I suppose I need to defend myself from the zombies.
Life. What a concept.
It’s a banquet and yet most want to starve to death. I suppose that’s a plan too.
“Life. What a concept.
It’s a banquet and yet most want to starve to death.”
On that note, I will mentally prepare myself to cook a delicious omelet.
I prefer to think of it as ‘labor market portfolio diversification.’
And I note that this is a natural consequence of Fed policies to prop up asset prices at levels where U.S. labor market income is insufficient to pay.
“This is a HOUSING blog”
UKT + $1,200
DBLL - $10,200 + 3 month pending short sale
This is a HOUSING blog; ??
Its also the Bits Bucket….Wide latitude on topic discussion…Presidential race is over and this was a cantankerous one to say the least…
With that said, I agree we now should re-focus and move back to housing related issues particularly outside the Bits-Bucket..
Its apparent that Ben is very frustrated and maybe even angry on how the blog morphed over the past 4 months or so and he is spot on that our participation in housing related issues outside the bits-bucket has gotten little participation…
Lets all make a concerted effort to try and stay on subject and maybe Ben will again start doing to posting of subject matter related to the housing bubble…
It’s true, but the last few months all people fight over is the accuracy of Rasmussen and Gallup polls…
“There are so many crazy things happening housingwise in this country right now and people barely discuss them! It’s frustrating…”
Agree… give it some time, we’ll move back to housing.
I may have mentioned this before, but this is my latest example of crazy: the abandoned house across from me is being remodeled by the lady that abandoned the house next to me. And she’s a total jerk.
Word is she swindled the deed from a dying old lady that had no family.
There is no separation of housing and government anymore.
The federal government now owns or guarantees 90% of all mortgages.
Banks have been bailed out to trillions of taxpayer dollars.
Every month brings a new program and billions of dollars to save the “housing market”
Soon there will be hearings in congress of banks forgiving mortgages outright (and made whole through taxpayer money).
There is no way to have a rational discussion on housing without understanding the massive government intervention in the market and the politics that drive that intervention.
We just had an election.
obama wants even more intervention and more money spent creating a new housing bubble.
Romney was in favor of the market correcting bu itself. He was in favor of getting rid of Bernanke.
Elections have consequences.
Housing = Government
Government = Housing
Perhaps those who don’t like that should have made more effort to support the notion of a constitutional republic.
For the next few decades at least, many discussions about housing are going to involve discussions about the government.
The government owns the housing market. It now dictates.
It’s the Chief Result of the Housing Bubble crash. The secondary result is the erasing of $100T+ in wealth worldwide. But as I said, that’s just secondary.
Brett Steve Jobs said before he died Smart phone users dont use Search they use apps
And when millions dont know how to use Search anymore, it means they lose critical thinking skills…
So dont get mad at me when i call someone a clueless chicky poo…because its true. The smartphone has really dumbed down a lot of people.
But remember that on your next tour of New York City and New Jersey.
So you’re telling us, since you’re a New Yorker, that you actually know all the exits and entrances to the Fulton St. station?
And you don’t need your smartphone, chicky-poo?
There may be a quiz, you know.
Could it be that these people were the types to not care about critical thinking skills in the first place? That, even if a smartphone never existed, they still wouldn’t care?
I don’t know about everyone here, but I encounter people who just don’t care on a daily basis. And, it’s not just one or two. They also come in a variety of ages. No one ever said that the majority of the population was interested in thinking for themselves, unfortunately.
It’s OK, though, because the government will think for you!
Sales of existing homes still rising in North Texas.
The local housing recovery has been building steam all year. Existing home sales have increased for 14 consecutive months. And new home starts recently recorded a fifth consecutive quarter of gains, topping 5,000 in North Texas for the first time since 2008
My comment, wages might have matched inflation but are running at less than 1/2 of RE rising prices.
Maybe Parker county just west of Fort Worth is the place to be?
Nice informative post Bluestar….
We’re in Dallas also. It seems that anything priced appropriately in sub $200k range sells quickly.
I guess that’s true in a lot of places.
I agree that all the political rhetoric has become quite nauseating. I had hoped it would end after the election, but Banana Boy has already proven the insanity will never cease.
I suspect once the shock and outrage over the election outcome fades away into smoldering bitterness, we will be able to collectively redirect the discussion to economics and housing.
As I said last weekend, Romney’s states indeed look like a map of the Confederacy and a map of states that receive more in federal money than they pay in taxes. I did make an error in my election prediction–I had Obama for 290-300 votes, I didn’t see 330+ coming at all.
The interesting thing to me is, the red states that are so keen on not raising taxes on people making $250k+ are states that have relatively few people who would pay such taxes. Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, South Carolina, Arizona, Utah… get the picture? These are the poorer, less educated states in our Union. Why would they not want more money from the Marylands and New Jerseys if we are willing to pay it?
The real issue, I think, is people’s lack of confidence in both parties to spend the money fixing problems. As a Marylander and someone who should be $250k+ in the next year or two, I don’t mind higher taxes on the amount above 250k at all. I would gladly pay it as a price of ensuring that our infrastructure gets modernized, our entitlements are reformed and made solvent, and our budget deficits are brought into line with revenues. I would not want the money spent on fighting more wars or buying more bombs. On the other hand, I would not mind if some money goes to give healthcare to NYCdj or any other disadvantaged person, even if I would label them as “lazy” or “entitled”. Providing health care, at some basic level (preventative check ups, immunizations) is a smart move for a country to address problems before people turn 65 and get Medicare anyway.
One last thought– the civil liberties victories are something I’m really proud of younger voters for. Romney was absolutely crushed by voters under 40, both because of his lies about economic issues but also because of his spineless social policies. Simularly young people led the way on loosening marijuana laws, voting for gay marriage, electing Baldwin in Wisconsin (Tommy Thompson, LOL, what an idiot), and approving Dream Act legislation in several states. It’s going to take a while to clean up the mess made by Baby Boomers and Gen X, but it can be done. The 70s-00s will be remembered as a sad, dark time in America looking back. But the damage is not permanent.
FWIW, according to wikipedia, Utah has the 14th highest median HH income in the nation.
If you look at it county by county, it looks pretty much like major cities vs. everywhere else. The eastern counties in CA went Romney, with a high degree of red going across the country until you hit the eastern seaboard. It wasn’t just the south…
For 200 years the political party divide has been an artifact of slavery and religion. You can see it clearly across nearly every election. Stanford has an iTunes U class on “Geography of US Elections” by Martin Lewis you might enjoy that goes over the entire history. Also under podcasts, Econtalk has an interview up with Stanford professor “Rodden on the Geography of voting.” I’m a fan of Martin Lewis and Econtalk’s Russ Roberts. Russ rules! All these are free. Enjoy!
New York is only Democratic since the Democrats were the pro-slavery party and Manhattan in the 19th century consisted of plutocrats who were, naturally, pro-slavery.
What’s more interesting is why did the positions flip?
Stanford’s Martin Lewis does a fairly good job of covering the reasons for the shift. Murrey N Rothbard from Columbia University has several iTunes U that also covers this shirt. Search the itunes store for their names. They are all free. However, I didn’t mention Murrey N Rothbard originally because he is more political (Libertarian from Mises.org) and that may turn some people off. Whereas Lewis, Rodden and Russ really try to keep their own ideology out of the discussion and be as objective as possible in order to reach a wider audience.
I genuinely want to do this but I’m going to go on the record and state that I absolutely absolutely loathe the video format of education.
I’m a reasonably smart guy and one of the advantages of a book is that one can speed and slow down at the drop of a pin. I can skip over obvious stuff and rewind less than obvious stuff 40 times and there’s nobody to tell me otherwise.
Plus, most of these online lectures are aimed at average people with average brains. They are sooooooooooooooo unbelieavably slow.
I just want the content. I do not wish to spend a fixed amount of time.
I feel the same about Network News. Haven’t watched in
So slow. So boring. So devoid of content.
Just state the salient points and move on, fer’ cryin’ out loud! You can do that in less than 10 minutes globally but of course, there’s no money in that.
“I absolutely absolutely loathe the video format of education.”
Yet other posts suggest you believe this is the future direction of education…
And BTW, I believe video education is not only loathsome, but also inferior, and I’m actually not talking my book here…
There are alternatives. They are still being born.
I grant you that they are still half-baked (and unbelievably horrible) but that’s not the same as being “not possible”.
We’re not there yet. It’s gonna be rough but we shall get there.
I agree. Video and podcasts seem terribly old-school compared to…print.
Who’d a thunk.
I have to confess to feeling like a primary beneficiary of the Kindle revolution, as dead tree books have never been cheaper…
I don’t think they did flip…much. They “evolved”.
Slavery still is the goal. Today, however, slavery no longer is racially motivated.
There’s not enough money in that.
Slavery is no longer an “economic necessity”. It is more a “philosophical necessity”.
The problem is that modern-era Republicans have joined pro-Slavery democrats to enslave the people - attracted by all the money and power.
I think an argument can be made that social networks are making it easier to deepen/enforce modern day slavery, rather than retard it as so many predicted.
Today, however, slavery no longer is racially motivated.
slavery was never racially motivated. slavery is extreme class warfare that is profit motivated. but the truth is that slavery is only about 10% as profitable as hiring someone for what they’re willing to work for.
white have enslaved whites. blacks have enslaved blacks. slavery has nothing to do with race or racism. people do make the association, but it is a false one.
lincoln was a racist that hated slavery. but do you know why he hated it? because he thought it was unfair to whites who couldn’t afford slaves. that’s why he opposed slavery, not because he was trying to save black. he freed blacks during the war because he hoped they would fight against the south, which they did. slavery was reaching critical mass and probably would have been banned before the war actually ended, if the war would never have started. as a matter of fact, whites arrested the first captains of slave ships that arrived in north america. but one can always count on tyranny to pop up where freedom isn’t enforced.
sorry about the ’s’ key sticking on occasion on my computer. i should have proof read before posting.
also, the end of my post may be confusing. slave captains were arrested when america was more free and valued freedom. the arrests stopped after we became more accepting of tyranny.
Slavery is never profitable long-term.
Nor is servitude.
That is nothing new.
What IS new is that the enough people have forgotten that (or never learned it), with servitude now being de rigeur.
Polly gets mad at me when I talk about the importance of the psychology of the masses, but here it is once again.
For many years, the government has been expanding at a furious pace.
Now, The People just gave tacit approval of that expansion, whereas they used to complaion bitterly about it.
Enter the Great Government Bubble and the mania soon to follow.
very true when compared with traditional labor. efficiency would have been a more accurate word to use than profit. slave labor is very inefficient.
Now, The People just gave tacit approval of that expansion
voter fraud was rampant. many counties in penn., ohio and florida had much higher ‘turnout’ than 100% of the voter registration. the story is evolving but MSM is working furiously to hide it.
We’ll have to discuss the global history of slavery at some point. It’s one of the most interesting topics I’ve ever studied. When you consider not that many centuries ago the bulk of the world’s population were either slaves or surfs it is no wonder that many people today are so perplexed by the prospect of freedom.
When you consider not that many centuries ago the bulk of the world’s population were either slaves or surfs it is no wonder that many people today are so perplexed by the prospect of freedom.
true, they are also perplexed that freedom needs the rule of law to exist. not the rule of men, but the rule of law. law that protects your rights and property.
for example, idiots often say that somolia is a free market. since they don’t know what a free market is, they can make such inane comments. somolia is in anarchy, not freedom. anarchy is the breakdown of tyranny.
When you consider not that many centuries ago the bulk of the world’s population were either slaves or surfs
But the real question is, can serfs surf?
Enter the Great Government Bubble…
I am frankly amazed that anyone with the smarts to find their way onto this blog is nonetheless blithely oblivious to the fiscal cliff and its ramifications.
The last couple of times the cliff rolled around, it looked mostly like political theater. Do you really believe that it will be different this time around?
Well, the world is chock full of surprises, ain’t it!?
You so resent anything I have to say. It’s quite telling.
Regarding the fiscal cliff, who’s to say that the government will suffer? Yeah, I know that’s popular opinion (”shared” suffering and all that clap-trap), but nothing has even taken place yet.
You speak as if you know the facts about what has yet to occur.
Knock yourself out, Swami Prof.
You so resent anything I have to say.
you aren’t alone. liberals resent just about anything any conservative says.
“Do you really believe that it will be different this time around?”
I really believe a true day of reckoning lies in store which will not look like political theater.
But so far, extend-and-pretend has worked just fine. Maybe it can continue forever!
“liberals resent just about anything any conservative says.”
Though I don’t qualify as a liberal, I am frankly savoring the bitterness on display by conservative extremists who post here.
Keep up the entertainment, boyz!
define “conservative extremist”
…define “conservative extremist”…
Not necessary — it’s self-evident.
The funny thing about liberal and socialist.
They can’t understand when people want to hold on to their freedoms.
Even if it means giving up on some government freebies.
You think bigger and bigger government taking more and more in taxes/borrowing and spending that money as a bureaucrat sees fit will lead to a better America.
It will lead to disaster.
It’s a mania.
It’s a straw argument.
It seems more like we’re just now entering the manic period of our third (if history is predictive) and hopefully final bubble this go ’round.
The Tech Bubble
The Housing/Credit Bubble
And now the…Government Bubble.
Complete with wild, unaccounted spending, manic belief in schemes/programs/promises, crazed speculation and trust in “things only go up”, explosion/popping, disillusionment, collapse…and finally…regeneration.
With luck, there won’t be a war during the Government Bubble phase.
Most people know that our government cannot continue along its merry path. Yet they still want to believe. Our country’s current manic era is not over yet.
Dumb as a bag of hammers. History is NOT predictive. Global information and knowledge doubles ever few years which makes it near impossible to even set up the prerequisites to repeat any significant event or period in the past. Every economic bubble is different. At some point in a complete digital money world we could have a virtual debt bubble or a virtual ID extortion racket bubble. Psychology would be a better area of research as it applies to our modern world economies.
Your answer lies in your own post.
Are you saying that all history is not predictive?
Including behavioral history? No, apparently that is not what you’re saying.
This is so interesting…just a few days ago, Polly dismissed my musings about mass psychology/sociology as only so much nonsense (due to the absence of the always decisive FACTS); here, I’m being harrassed for not espousing that very same point of view.
Perhaps you ought to argue the point with Polly. She seems to believe psychology/sociology as so much rot.
History is predictive to various extent depending on your premise and basis of comparison.
All that aside, the important thing to note is that as a society, we still haven’t shaken off our manic behavior, which I believe started about 1995.
We just decided to put the candy-crapping unicorn costume on a different entity (this time, government itself) rather than torch the costume.
And the reason for that is that we have been sheltered from the pain of reality, by the loving hand of the Fed.
The 30’s generation never repeated their manic errors, because they got to experience the real results.
It started as something real, at least out here in Colorado. The internet revolution, and the storage needed to handle it, was real. But like any major new thing, we overdid it and the bubble popped. Where things went wrong is that we didn’t want to deal with the consequences of that and it’s been bubbles all the way down ever since.
They can’t understand when people want to hold on to their freedoms.
I think that’s referred to as being an idiot that votes against your own economic best interest.
California glory days were when it was a much more Republican state. It will be broke by the end of the fiscal year. I would like to see an up to date figure of which states pay more in taxes than they take in benefits not one that uses data from 1990-2012 which does not take into account that many of the states have moved from red to blue and vice versa from then.
It will be broke by the end of the fiscal year.
Horror me up, horror me down.
It’s bad but a choice of such a specific time-frame renders your argument not even useless.
Hyperbole aside, you know this because?
You have studied the California budget in gory detail? You know every sub-clause of every statute? You know how all the people of that state are likely to behave over the coming fiscal year? You know all about climate and can predict what the tax revenues in the Central Valley will be? You are personally tuned in to the Universe?
I mean, seriously, dude! Get a grip.
Have you not even looked at the news about the deficits in California and the number of cities within the state that are either bankrupt or on the verge?
Cities does not equate to state, and you have made no argument as to why it should happen in this fiscal year as opposed to, say, 10 fiscal years later.
Dan, can you explain Japan’s debt, GDP and Yen value relationship using your clairvoyant powers? By your logic Japan collapsed years ago and nobody noticed.
It seems to me that debt has many virtual qualities that be manipulated so in the real world it’s power is, in part physiological only. In ancient times there used to be something called a debt Jubilee. You make a loan X for Y period. If you don’t collect all of X before Y ends then you made what was called ‘a loss’. Things worked fine until the Hebrews appropriated the exponential function and called it compounding interest and applied it only to the Gentiles. Thankfully we have evolved where many Gentiles now enjoy this form of income redistribution too.
“Cities does not equate to state.”
Note, too, that states does not equate to federal.
Boring? Perhaps. But remember that on your next tour of New York City and New Jersey.
What on earth are you talking about or implying?
I live in NYC.
I know you live in NYC. It’s why I threw the comment out there.
I’m surprised you don’t know what I was getting at. Usually, you’re quite quick at such things. Guess I didn’t phrase things well enough.
You’re correct in stating that a handful of bankrupt cities in California mean little at the state level.
Same could be said about New York and New Jersey on a national level (my point). No sh*t, right? I agree.
That said, why should anyone view NYC (including New Yorkers) as something more than it is? Truth be told, the city could slide off into the Atlantic and the rest of the country would carry on as usual economically after maybe a year of stress and recession (much like how Calif. might if Los Angeles slid into the Pacific - your point).
Short- and long-term effects are increasingly negigible the further away one gets from the damage (also obvious). Why act as if they’re not?
I bring this up now because:
(1) it’s amazing the extent to which Mid- and North-Atlantic residents suffer from delusions of grandeur - a very bad and debilitating place to be in times of localized crisis, and,
(2) I’m fixated on constitutional republic ideals today. It’s my default philosophical location. Want to converse with me, you’ll have to learn to deal with that on occasion.
Dude, it’s a beautiful state but it’s going to crumble into a third world banana republic. Too many taxes, no spending constraints and not enough tax payers.
General arguments are all well and good (and I buy this one) but as I keep saying, it can easily keep on truckin’ for two decades.
The only thing that kept the state going was the bubble in media stocks which is over, this is the year, particularly if we go over the fiscal cliff.
And you know this because?
You have personal connections to the minds of all speculators in existence?
Hey, I LOVE NEW YORK.
Out here we went over the fiscal escarpment years ago. Life goes on.
Lip, I love how in Arizona the voters defeated a proposition that would have made a temporary sales tax hike a permanent sales tax, yet in Taxifornia the majority are wolves and voted for higher sales taxes. They voted for higher income taxes on the more successful people and higher capital gains taxes.
Arizona’s capital gains tax will fall from 4.5 percent to 3.4% by 2016. California’s retroactive tax goes above 11% from 10%. The spread between Arizona and California will therefore change from 5.5% to around 7%. Of course a California investor in stocks can simply move to the east shore of Tahoe and enjoy 18 to 21.3 long term (5 year) tax rates on gains.
Arizona also eased up on corporate taxes.
This time of year in Arizona is festive. Temperatures at the top of the day in the upper 50s to low 60s some days, maybe a little warmer. It helps my sanity that we elected Jeff Flake to the U.S. Senate, although I voted for libertarian Marc Victor, who garnered an impressive 5%.
Arizona is not infected with the socialist disease yet.
Arizona’s capital gains tax will fall from 4.5 percent to 3.4% by 2016. California’s retroactive tax goes above 11% from 10%.”
Could be why many retired CA public workers move with their pensions to AZ ?
“It will be broke by the end of the fiscal year.”
It’s been broke for as long at least a decade, yet it keeps going and going and going…
I don’t mind higher taxes on the amount above 250k at all.
There’s an error in your statement above, Joe—assuming that the higher taxes will be on the amount ABOVE $250k. It won’t be.
The plan is to raise taxes on people at that income level, not just on their income above that level.
Do you understand the concept of “marginal tax brackets”?
I suggest you look it up.
FPSS is totally right on this. The only mechanism we currently have in place that would raise taxes on more (even then not all) of the income of the over $250K crowd is to raise the rate on the AMT. That is the functional equivalent of a flat tax (with a bid deduction).
If they raise the rate on income over $250K from 36% to 40%, the person with income of $250,001, pays an extra 4 cents in taxes. 4% multiplied by $1.
I guess we’ll have to just wait and see what the actual proposal ends up looking like. but if they let the Bush tax cuts expire, as they previously proposed doing (see below) after one additional year (for those earning under $250K), and immediately (for those earning $250K), it would increase taxes on everyone earning over about $30K after the second year.
The devil is in the details, obviously; several possible proposals have been bandied about, but I don’t recall seeing one that actually proposed a new marginal bracket starting at $250K, which is what joe seemed to be assuming.
I’m afraid I have a solid understanding of what marginal tax means, FPSS.
Did you actually look at Obama’s last concrete tax proposal, which he floated this past summer? I haven’t seen a more concrete plan since then, it’s quite possible that his future legislative proposals may not resemble his last proposal.
But his proposal was to extend the Bush tax cuts for those earning less than $250K for ONE ADDITIONAL YEAR. Translation for those not paying attention: increase on those earning $250K or more in 2013, and an increase on those earning less than $250K in 2014.
Reference to follow in a separate post so that moderation doesn’t delay this post.
WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama proposed a one-year extension of Bush-era tax cuts for families earning less than $250,000 a year but would let them rise for wealthier Americans, a move that both shifts the election debate to tax rates and sets the table for a showdown with Republicans in Congress.
I rarely follow this stuff in nascence. I follow it up in execution.
My global plans rarely matter what either fecal aggregate does and even that seldom matters!
You could argue that I have the luxury to do so or you could just equally logically argue that I have arranged it that it may be so.
Taxes are an input into the system not an output. Only output matters. I would rarely respond to them in a marginal context. I only focus on maximizing the output.
So ol’-fashioned. And I’m not even late-thirties.
17% of FHA loans delinquent in September, bailout coming
Assuming you are a regular poster here, this is the moniker I hope you retain for some time.
It’s quite good.
Johnny (I`m out of) Cash
I see the bailout comin’
It’s rollin’ ’round the bend,
And I ain’t made a payment,
Since, I don’t know when,
I’m luvin` Robo Prison,
And time keeps draggin’ on,
But the bailouts keeps a-comin’,
On my delinquent loan.
When I was just a baby,
My Mama told me, “Son,
Just take what you got comin’,
Cause’ paying bills aint fun,”
So I bought me three in Reno,
Why would I even try,
And those bailouts keep a comin’,
So let those renters cry.
“Johnny (I`m out of) Cash”
I would love to hear Ralph Stanly’s rendition of O’ Death revised to O’ Debt.
Won’t you spare me over til another year
Well what is this that I can’t see
With ice cold hands takin’ hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
I’ll open the door to heaven or hell
Whoa, Debt someone would pray
Could you wait to call me another day
Are you formally known as Jeff….
New Rasmussen Reports national poll:
New High: 68 Percent See Global Warming as Serious Problem
68% just noticed the fire under the pot. We are all frogs now.
The poll marks a huge shift for Americans. In 2009, a Rasmussen poll showed that only 46% of Americans thought climate change was a serious issue. In 2010, Gallup reported that 48% of Americans thought that the seriousness of global warming was exaggerated.
“68 Percent See Global Warming as Serious Problem”
What does political opinion have to do with scientific reality?
The Black presidents will continue until morale improves.
the Free Sht Army
so will the racism…ohbewanna will get all of you back on the plantation he’s got 4 more years to make you suffer
The kid had on an ankle bracelet with GPS….how severely dumb can you get?
“How severely dumb can you get”
Every time I see one of your posts, I think this.
But do not worry, as a “Producer” (TM) I will continue to pay my taxes so your children can go to public school and you can continue to get public benefits since you are a lazy, spineless, and jobless.
I can get 2 free pairs of orthopedic shoes a year if i can find a way to be classified as diabetic…..hmmm give me some ideas..
It takes a black president to crush black people.
You say you didn’t want to crush black people?
oops, my bad.
Florida just added its electors to Obama’s vote count. How nice that the election was already decided without the rest of US having to wait on their self-important hysteria.
“… self-important hysteria.”
I’m so tired of it.
But what amazes me the most is that everyone I know who supported Romney (excepting my wife) seemed blithely oblivious…
Cogats on your book.
Not to mention you are one pretty lady. I am sorry if that was politically incorrect or something, it was meant as a well deserved compliment. But sometimes I just don`t know what is right or what is wrong anymore.
Speaking a kindness from the heart is never incorrect, politically or otherwise. Thank you for making my day, unk.
I hope he turns on you commie.
Lol, Allena is hardly a commie.
Why are you stressed? The USA still has a free market. Why don’t you think of something useful and then sell a lot of it?
You know Muggy, I will admit I have been on a roll today, but some of the posts by the progressives are just ridiculous in their assumption that this election is some great communist awakening. I will back off after today, back to housing.
Nick labels everyone who doesn’t rubber stamp his stupid posts “commie” or “progressive,” depending on his whim.
You are really wiping up my mess today
“How nice that the election was already decided without the rest of US having to wait on their self-important hysteria.”
But we’re Florida!
“A 17-acre site on White Trout Lake in North Tampa’s Carrollwood area will soon be home to the largest house in Hillsborough County — approx. 63,000-square feet.”
I’ll prefer Northern New Hampshire in summer and north Scottsdale in Winter!
How patriotic is Mitt Romney? He wanted this job so bad he spent most of the last decade preparing for this all or nothing effort to win in 2012. But think about this for a moment, Mitt had by some accounts over 250 million of his own dollars going into this election. His party (not to mention the Super PACs and most of the Oil & Gas industry) spent hundreds of millions trying to swing this election and still lost decisively. Anybody want to guess how much money he personally has left? I bet he managed to ’shelter’ 90% of it and got his dumb followers to spend their money on his failed effort. He made fools out of the GOP and their gullible donors but I’ll give him this, he’s one greedy dude and I’m glad he’s not the POTUS.
* Anybody want to sell me a copy of “2016: Obama’s America”? Surly it will be a real collectors item like my can of 1979 Billy Beer.
The defaulters are re-defaulting
Stop, you’re bummin’ me out.
FWIW, I’m still keeping DE in the planbook… hopefully 2-3 years.
O.k., now the name thing is confusing me. This is Jeff, not RAL/Ex.
DE is still in one of our plans.
Beware the Coming Bailouts
Just when you thought it was afe to go back inthe water
A Saturday night song for the weary……
Looks like the Republican Congressmen’s plan to crash the economy and blame Obama was an epic fail.
Boehner Tells House G.O.P. to Fall in Line
Speaker John Boehner, at a news conference on Friday, says he wants to avoid partisan battles.
By JONATHAN WEISMAN and JENNIFER STEINHAUER
Published: November 10, 2012
WASHINGTON — On a conference call with House Republicans a day after the party’s electoral battering last week, Speaker John A. Boehner dished out some bitter medicine, and for the first time in the 112th Congress, most members took their dose.
Their party lost, badly, Mr. Boehner said, and while Republicans would still control the House and would continue to staunchly oppose tax rate increases as Congress grapples with the impending fiscal battle, they had to avoid the nasty showdowns that marked so much of the last two years.
Members on the call, subdued and dark, murmured words of support — even a few who had been a thorn in the speaker’s side for much of this Congress.
It was a striking contrast to a similar call last year, when Mr. Boehner tried to persuade members to compromise with Democrats on a deal to extend a temporary cut in payroll taxes, only to have them loudly revolt.
With President Obama re-elected and Democrats cementing control of the Senate, Mr. Boehner will need to capitalize on the chastened faction of the House G.O.P. that wants to cut a deal to avert sudden tax increases and across-the-board spending cuts in January that could send the economy back into recession. After spending two years marooned between the will of his loud and fractious members and the Democratic Senate majority, the speaker is trying to assert control, and many members seem to be offering support.
“To have a voice at the bargaining table, John Boehner has to be strong,” said Representative Tom Cole of Oklahoma, one of the speaker’s lieutenants. “Most members were just taught a lesson that you’re not going to get everything that you want. It was that kind of election.”
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