Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Posted By: Ben Jones @ 4:10 am
For those thinking it will not happen or will be postponed, my take is that it will happen in some form. How:
–Taxes would definitely go up for wealthy folks.
–AMT needs to be fixed.
–Defense spending would go down.
It will definitely have an impact as deficit has to be curtailed. DC metro RE prices will take a hit.
“…in some form.”
It seems like there are three basic scenarios:
1. No compromise / full-force fiscal cliff dive
2. Compromise / cushioned dive
3. Kick the can / postponed dive
If I understood your post, then you believe the compromise scenario most likely?
my guess is no. 3….again.
There is no Cliff. Accounting trickery and delays and money-printing will be the basis of any “compromise”. This is the greatest country in the World when it comes to scams and also the command center for a worldwide ponzi scheme that is the monetary system. The will figure something out.
We are in luck. The people who got us in this mess are still there, are still in charge.
All the experience and expertise they have garnered all these years can be put to good use.
There is too much money to be made in deficits to stop now. Europe hasn’t been asset stripped and China hasn’t imploded yet. Be patient. We just need to take some more of these liabilities off book so that the sheep settle down.
“Tax the rich.” LOL. Can you say that while screaming like a pig?
The Kings and Queens of the world (including those in Washington) are just beginning their desperate scramble.
“Tax the rich.” LOL.
It’s coming. And all the propaganda in the world can’t stop it.
We’ll see Alpha. Back from the southern marshes?
I expect the elite will take a flesh wound for the team, for good appearances, while the extraction process upon the rest of us will be rather more crushing. There hasn’t been any movement toward reform. Without reform, a tax is just protection money. It doesn’t stop the theft.
80%er: “yeah…those evil damn $ 250K wage earners need to pay!”
.01%er: “oh they will…don’t you worry about that.
I expect the elite will take a flesh wound for the team
Works for me. I never called for expropriation, just rates that are more comparable to most of modern US history- you know, back when the economy worked, for everyone.
And yes, a few extra points for those at the top is a mere flesh wound.
“Tax the rich.”…Can you say that while screaming like a pig?
I think you just did.
those evil damn $ 250K wage earners need to pay!
Why do you think they are evil?
And it’s expensive to “retain talent”. Best keep them at the helm.
And pay them well.
To create thousands upon thousands of new regulations annually - which strips economies of their wealth and pads the wallets of the regulators.
I would wager that the United States now is top producer of wealth-stripping regulations worldwide.
What could you wager if you have no wealth?
Missed the last 30 years of deregulation, did you?
“I would wager that the United States now is top producer of wealth-stripping regulations worldwide.”
Yeah, from the 90% to the rich.
Accounting trickery and delays and money-printing will be the basis of any “compromise”.
ft dot com
Last updated: November 14, 2012 7:59 pm
US Fed looks at further easing
By Robin Harding in Washington
A “number” of US Federal Reserve officials are pushing for more quantitative easing next year in a sign that the central bank may try to stimulate the economy further.
“A number of participants indicated that additional asset purchases would likely be appropriate next year . . . in order to achieve a substantial improvement in the labour market,” said the minutes of the rate committee’s October meeting.
The minutes suggest that when the Fed’s Operation Twist programme expires at the end of the year, it may be replaced with new quantitative easing, in order to keep its total asset purchases at $85bn a month.
Support from a number of participants suggests that the committee is leaning toward more QE but has not taken a final decision. An expansion of QE to replace Operation Twist would mark a further easing of monetary policy.
Under the Operation Twist programme, the Fed sells short-dated and buys longer-dated assets in an effort to drive down longer-term interest rates, but it is running out of shorter-dated assets to sell.
The Federal Open Market Committee minutes also suggest that the Fed is close to adopting a “threshold” strategy to replace its current forecast of low interest rates until mid-2015, although the central bank is still working on the technical details.
Such a change could stimulate the economy further by tying low Fed rates more closely to success in bringing down unemployment. As part of that, the Fed is considering whether it should offer guidance on the future path of interest rates after the first rise, which could let it influence the yield curve even beyond its existing guidance of mid-2015
Under a threshold strategy, the Fed would forecast low interest rates until it had met a condition on the economy, such as an unemployment rate of 7 per cent. When the threshold was hit, it would choose whether to raise rates.
“Participants generally favoured the use of economic variables, in place of or in conjunction with a calendar date, in the committee’s forward guidance,” say the minutes. “But they offered different views on whether quantitative or qualitative thresholds would be most effective.”
This isn’t your grandpa’s kind of depression.
DC metro RE prices will take a hit.
Cue up the REM: “It’s the end of the world as we know it…”
Serious question: Why do we call it a Fiscal Cliff and in Europe its called Austerity?
Another question: Why does every financial analyst, reporter, politician, etc pronounce it as Physical Cliff?
Because we are a hysterical people.
“an” hysterical people?
A hysterical people with poor grammar.
Only if you don’t pronounce the h.
THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH HYPERBOLE!!!
It is called “Fiscal Cliff” to misguide people. There is a group of people who don’t care about the long term situation. They want short term gains and that would happen only if money supply is there.
As IMF’s Lagarde has said, she is looking for a real solution and not a quick solution for Greece, our country should also be thinking on those lines. Band aid approach doesn’t work in the long term.
Austerity is the right word and why not use it to reduce fat in the spending. Reduce the $300-400 per hour federal contractors to $200 per hour which is still high. I can bet there are amny place fat can be cut to make it a more lean system without too much pain to the economy.
Any cuts to the rivers of cash pouring out of the FedGov will cause pain to the economy. The differences between pain and strength are not appreciated.
$300-$400 per hour federal contractors
Care to provide some specific examples of these wage rates?
Yes, contractors are paid well, but the above wage range is a mythical boogeyman, just like the public union janitor retired at age 39 with a $200K pension.
The people being “paid” $300 to $400 an hour don’t get that much. That is the rate their employer gets paid - basically the temp agency. The person doing the work sees less than half of their billing rates.
And some specific examples of labor categories that bill Uncle Sugar for $300-400 an hour?
“And some specific examples of labor categories that bill Uncle Sugar for $300-400 an hour?”
Yes. I want to know what I should be studying to get those kind of rates.
CIA Public Relations analyst, $$$
“Yes. I want to know what I should be studying to get those kind of rates.”
Graduate level schmoozing and how to choose your parents correctly.
Hourly rates for senior sci-eng technical staff at National Labs top out about $250/hour.
Senior sci-end managers at any small consulting outfit also charge about $250/hour. Technician work is $135/hour+.
I guess defense contractor managers in charge of the guys building the F-16’s charging $300/hour is not out of the question.
These figures are not just salary, they include benefits and overhead.
Good god did you just fall off the turnip truck? It’s called the Fiscal Cliff for TV ratings.
It was called the Fiscal Cliff to make sure that people understood that it was so horrible that our wise political leaders would never actually let it happen.
Remember that this was the spur to get the supercommittee to come up with something better and if 14 out of 18 of the committee members could agree then that agreement would get voted on in Congress without allowing for any amendments. Just up or down on the deal.
Well, the committee couldn’t get there (I beleive there were one or two who never agreed, and then Paul Ryan lead a small group of others that got them over the maximum number who could refuse to vote for it). No alternative going to Congress with no amendments. And no one wanted to take it on without those rules.
The Fiscal Cliff was the big scarey stick. Turns out the stick wasn’t scarey enough before the election. Now we get to see if it is scarey enough after the election.
And Paul Krugman has been calling it “austerity bomb” for a few days now. I think he got it from someone else.
Same reason they pronounce it “so scurity”?
re: Fiscal Cliff:
Don’t know and don’t care. We are a country without any leadership from the top down and all one can do is to take care of themselves and their family. Live life fully everyday and enjoy what you have, forget what you don’t have as you don’t need it. The unfortunate side effect is that when those who understand this and curtail spending it will just mean more people out of work.
What have I seen in my local area. Long time family owned farms going under. Business owner’s have been selling their businesses and completing the sales before the first of the year. These are 20+ years in service businesses. Some of these owners living here have sold their businesses in Washington State, Oregon. Every day more commercial RE appears. The elderly are selling their gold, silver and jewelry. Some retirees have gone back to work. One just told me he has a two year contract (open ended) at $100K/yr with a company in SJ area and no it’s not in computers but it may be getting government contract money.Tourists are still flocking into Monterey and Carmel.
Thanks for that local market observation Salinas…
yeah I work for 20/hour. I show up on time; I get to work at my kids’ school most days. life is fun!
Why do I hear Joe Walsh’s guitar when I read this?
My honda civic goes oh…85
Still got my license. to school I can drive
Life is good to me….so far
White House Makes $1.6 Trillion Opening Bid
By BRIANNA EHLEY, Posted: November 14, 2012
President Obama is not backing down from his campaign promise of raising taxes on the wealthy to help reduce the deficit. White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters Tuesday that the president wants to raise $1.6 trillion in tax revenues on corporations and the wealthy over the next decade, twice the amount that Republican House Speaker John Boehner and Obama put on the table during secret debt-ceiling negotiations in 2011, the Washington Post’s Zachary Goldfarb and Lori Montgomery report.
Even revenue generated by allowing the Bush-era tax cuts to expire on the nation’s wealthiest 2 percent wouldn’t be enough to tame the $16 trillion national debt, according to Carney. Republicans have adamantly opposed raising tax rates but say they are open to finding ways to raise overall revenues. They have proposed placing a cap on tax deductions or loopholes that households earning more than $250,000 a year can claim in return for extending the Bush-era tax rates across the board. Treasury Secretary Timothy J. Geithner and other senior Democrats on Tuesday said Obama would not agree to that arrangement. - Read more at The Washington Post
Updated November 14, 2012, 10:55 a.m. ET
Business Leaders Spooked by ‘Fiscal Cliff’
Year-End Package of Tax Increases and Spending Cuts Surpasses Euro-Zone Woes as Many Chief Executives’ Top Concern
By DAMIAN PALETTA And SUDEEP REDDY
Treasury Sec. Timothy Geithner says that higher tax rates for some Americans are a central part of the White House’s deficit-reduction proposal, in an interview with WSJ’s David Wessel at the CEO Council in Washington.
Fears about Washington’s inability to avoid looming tax increases and spending cuts have eclipsed concerns about Europe’s debt crisis, top business executives said Tuesday, worrying that political gridlock might tip the economy into recession next year.
President Barack Obama will begin budget negotiations with congressional leaders Friday by calling for $1.6 trillion in additional tax revenue over the next decade, far more than Republicans are likely to accept. Photo: Bloomberg News.
At a Wall Street Journal CEO Council conference in Washington, 73% of participants surveyed said their primary concern was the “fiscal cliff,” the federal spending cuts and tax increases that begin in January unless policy makers intervene. Only 12% said their top fear was Europe’s financial turmoil.
Mr. Obama and House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) have suggested they are open to compromise and don’t want to replay the brinkmanship that occurred last year during a fight over raising the government’s borrowing limit. But negotiations are almost certain to spill into mid-December, and perhaps even beyond.
Several CEOs said this uncertainty has prompted them to make contingency plans for layoffs and prepare for a sharp economic contraction, which is holding back investment.
“The greatest stimulus is certainty,” Putnam Investments CEO Robert Reynolds said. “Here you are, November 13, and you don’t know what your tax rate is next year, you don’t necessarily know what you’re going to be paying in health care, capital gains, dividends. They all have a tremendous impact on the way people act.”
Business leaders and policy makers have known of the fiscal cliff since it was created last year as part of the deal to raise the debt ceiling. But few paid much attention to it because they were focused on the presidential race. “The narrative of the country was completely dominated by the election, and that’s changing currently,” said Stephen Schwarzman, chief executive of the Blackstone Group., a private-equity firm.
Austan Goolsbee, a former economic adviser to Mr. Obama, said at the conference that many business executives he speaks with assume policy makers “are not so stupid that they’ll let this happen. But look, they are that stupid. They could easily be that stupid.”
Wash Times, Obamacare Taxes, Obamacare Layoffs.
Well looks like the effects of this election are beginning to happen. More taxes, more layoffs and more people on welfare. Just what the Administration wants. And all we have are the House Republicans to stem the tide.
It’s going to get much worse before it gets better.
“It’s going to get much worse before it gets better.”
Four more years of anti-Obama rants to go until the next election.
You think the freedom movement is just going to lay down because the progressives stole another election? Not bloody likely
Regarding the “freedom movement”, the headline on Drudge now is Secession Movement Explodes. But who will pay for all those deep south red states’ food stamps and Medicaid after the money spigot from the blue states is cut off?
Ooh! Do we get to have slaves again?!
Ooh! Do we get to have slaves again?!
That would solve the food stamp problem.
As for secession, let ‘em go. It would be interesting to the demographic shift, should secession actually happen. I suspect there would be ample movement in both directions.
Not to mention their Social Security checks…..
Remember that they would have to take their proportionate share of the debt with them. And if they wanted to refinance/roll over any of it, I don’t think they would get the same interest rates that the US does. Or maybe they would just default and never borrow a penny even for infrastructure ever again.
I think it would be the second one. I suspect the real battle would be over the natural resources of those states. The lefties might say “let ‘em go” at first, but I don’t think they would end up letting them go because of everything that would go with them.
I saw a map on one of the news channels that showed about 40 states where individuals had initiated secession petitions on the White House website. Florida and Texas and a couple of other southern states had already exceeded the 25K signatures to get a response from the President. It would be really interesting if eventually all 50 states end up with such petitions. How do all of the states secede from the union?
There is already a Wikipedia entry. As of today, there are 48 states with them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_State_Petitions_for_Secession
Interestingly, Rick Perry came out against secession yesterday. And according to Wikipedia, the governors of Tennessee and Alabama have also expressed opposition to secession.
I find it surprising that, say, Texas, would oppose secession. One would expect that all the free sh!t armies in Texas would migrate north in order to continue to collect, ridding Texas of a huge burden and leaving behind a Randian paradise of safe empty roads, better students in the schools, and harder workers to process and sell the natural resources in exchange for federal-made products like vaccines or research results.
You think the freedom movement
“Freedom Movement”? LOL. Your “movement” is more like a bowel movement. That’s why you lost in an historical manner.
Yeah, but it was so much fun chanting slogans like “Take America Back” and “Restore Our Future”.
an historical manner.
(I don’t pronounce H)
As in, “(H)OLY SHIT!” We still miss her and her ducks -
I did not lose Mr Communist, a Republican I am not. The freedom movement is not going anywhere and as a matter of fact, every victory for in your face Progressivism/Socialism/Communism just pushes more people to the side of liberty.
Are you on the side of Liberty? No, like most progressive/communist/socialist cowards you need mommy and daddy government to do the dirty business of incremental enslavement.
“…Mr Communist, a Republican I am not. The freedom movement is not going anywhere and as a matter of fact, every victory for in your face Progressivism/Socialism/Communism…”
I guess the choice is either employ the Joshua Tree Extension, or else to try to either ignore or digest an endless stream of rants against an imaginary enemy.
Which are other HBB readers doing to cope with the one-man crusade against the nonexistent U.S. Provessivism/Socialism/Communism movement?
P.S. JTE works for me…
the one-man crusade against the nonexistent U.S. Provessivism/Socialism/Communism movement?
One man? We’ve got a batch of ludicrous McCarthyites who’ve apparently sprung up like mushrooms after the election.
Must be the Kochtopus’ latest strategy. Fall back to the glory days of red scares.
Typical responses to truthful content. McCarthy was right, as we go forward he will be looked upon fondly as the Paul Revere of the anti-communist movement.
McCarthy was right
We do have something in common nickpapageorgio. Charlie McCarthy Rocked!
Perhaps ranting here can help protect loved ones of Obama haters from harm…
Beware of true believers in Hope and Change!
Nov. 13, 2012, 11:52 a.m. EST
Woman runs over spouse for Obama re-election
By Val Brickates Kennedy
BOSTON (MarketWatch) — An Arizona woman, enraged over the re-election of President Barack Obama, allegedly ran over her spouse with the family’s SUV for not voting in the general election, according to reports Tuesday. Holly Solomon, 28, of Gilbert, Ariz., was arrested by police after she reportedly pinned her 36-year-old husband Daniel with their Jeep SUV in a parking lot following an argument over the election. Police said that Solomon, who is pregnant, had said she believed Obama’s re-election would hurt the family economically and was angry at her husband’s political apathy.
This article (which was linked on Drudge yesterday) was the first thing we thought of.
Expect many Jared Loughner copycats to get pushed over the edge by crosshairs on Sarah Palin websites and go postal over the next four years.
enraged over the re-election of President Barack Obama, allegedly ran over her spouse with the family’s SUV
Now that’s family values!
Must be a Tea Bag.
Imagine what she might have done to her poor husband if Arizona had gone for Obama.
Let them seethe with hatred like the Libruls did after W won in 2004.
Just stay out of the way if you see a crazed woman behind the wheel of an SUV driving your direction…
Article linked from Drudge:
Why rant when you can own?
“Four more years of anti-Obama rants to go until the next election.”
The election is over and there is no moving this country forward when we keep the game going. I heard Bush rants all through his Presidency, Clinton rants too. But now it seems a group of you who chose this path want the other side to quiet down because your man is in power. In this world actions beget actions and now you want to change the game because you don’t like it, tough, get over it.
We change the game because we need to move this country ahead not because you want to whitewash this administration.Unfortunately until the MSM decides that hard issues need to be addressed we will boat caught in an eddy going nowhere.
In case that comment was directed at me, I have no interest in either “whitewashing this administration” or discussing it further, unless there is something of relevance to discussion of economics or housing.
“But now it seems a group of you who chose this path want the other side to quiet down because your man is in power.”
I don’t think issuing a statement of fact is the same as saying “shut up.”
We all know that whoever was elected was going to have basically half the nation PO’d. Just a fact in this decisive nation. Childish, not proactive and embarrassing to us as a nation, but true.
I, on the other hand, will rant only about individual actions people are responsible for as opposed to entire, seemingly fair, elections that there is no vice in winning. I don’t care who’s in office because MY guy lost. So I get to complain about stupid things on both sides while posting a bumper sticker that says “Don’t blame me - I voted for Johnson.”
a group of you who chose this path want the other side to quiet down because your man is in power
I’m glad you all are not quiet. It shows your little, angry white man’s world was rocked hard as it should have been.
You and turkey lurkey are both Racists®.
It was very bad for whole middle class all past 10 years, because of Mr Bush’s tax cuts for his pals , when Mr. Romney likes were paying14% and middle class ( down 80%, like one of HBBers saying) was paying almost 30% income tax. World history never seen that kind of money redistribution (or heist) from poor to rich. They were on Welfare ( the rich hero entrepreneurs like Mr. Trump who was bankrupted several times) for all these years and they are the angry ones…
Um, the tax cuts that Obama wants to keep are worth about $3.2 Trillion over the next 10 years. The tax cuts on the $250k and up, about $800 Billion.
The middle class got a big break as well. People seem to forget this…
Some days, I think the Republicans should just block everything and let the Bush tax cuts expire for all. Screw it.
Just letting them expire for the wealthy is a cop-out and wastes another crisis, and golden opportunity for REAL tax reform. A real leader would see that and be pressing for tax reform, not a simplistic “keep taxes high on the wealthy”.
And all we have are the House Republicans to stem the tide.
That’s a joke. The Republican supply-side, failed, rich-get-richer philosophy caused this problem. I knew this would happen.
Stem the tide?
Does anyone recall the admonition from Hank Paulson to not call the 2008 financial rescue a ‘bailout’?
How’d that work out for him?
It’s worked out quite well.
“Even if I fell, I land on a bunch of money” — Jay Z
Are the fiscal cliff fear mongers trying to crash the stock market?
Would $1.6 trillion in new taxes be enough to fill the budget hole Republican fear mongers have been yammering about for months now?
Stop calling it a ‘fiscal cliff’
Commentary: Rex Nutting dubs current rhetoric mere scare tactics.
• Going over cliff won’t solve deeper issues: Das
• Obama to seek $1.6 trillion in new taxes
they will eventually crash it like they did last time. thats how the game works player. as soon as you think the easy money is here forever they will pull the rug out from under you. They will all be short and watch all the rats panic. they make money on the way up but more quick money on the way down. If you think they are here to help you retire you are delusional.
Churn ‘em and burn ‘em.
If you think they are here to help you retire you are delusional.
They never were here to help us retire. The only thing they’re good for is helping themselves to our money.
You’re on fire with truth today AZ. Stay on it.
PS….. For everyone else, Ben Bernanke is still POTUS. And his cabinet of 12 money changing thieves own you….. yes YOU.
Speaking of being on fire with the truth, Dean Baker’s fanning the flames. Again. His latest:
It’s So Cute When People Who Couldn’t See an $8 Trillion Housing Bubble Tell Us How Markets Will React to the Ending of the Bush Tax Cuts
Remember, class, that’s eight trillion with a “T.”
As in, about half of the U.S. annual GDP given over to that bubble they couldn’t see. Or didn’t want to see.
And his cabinet of 12 money changing thieves own you….. yes YOU.
Me much less than most.
Will the current episode look like a slow-motion stock market crash when viewed through the lens of history’s rear view mirror?
Don’t let the numbers out of one tech stock firm block your view of the fiscal cliff.
Fiscal cliff and Cisco wage battle for Wall St. influence
U.S. stocks revert to losses on worries about getting a deficit-reduction deal done in Washington.
Bulletin Nancy Pelosi confirms plan to remain Democratic leader in House
Nov. 14, 2012, 10:55 a.m. EST
U.S. stocks turn lower on ‘cliff’ uncertainty
By Kate Gibson, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks turned lower Wednesday as Wall Street’s cheer over an upbeat quarterly report from Cisco Systems Inc. dissipated on concerns about efforts to reach a deficit-cutting deal.
“Every investor now is a cliff watcher. The focus here is not on earnings, the Federal Reserve or oil prices, it’s all about the fiscal cliff,” said Alan Skrainka, chief investment officer at Cornerstone Wealth Management in Des Peres, Mo.
President Barack Obama will begin budget negotiations with congressional leaders Friday by calling for $1.6 trillion in additional tax revenue over the next decade, far more than Republicans are likely to accept.
“So let’s hope we see some progress on the negotiations front; until then we’re seeing a modest correction, justified by the uncertainties in Washington,”
Nov. 14, 2012, 8:30 a.m. EST
U.S. retail sales decline 0.3% in October
By Jeffry Bartash
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - U.S. retail sales fell in October by the sharpest amount since June, hurt partly by the effects of hurricane Sandy. Retail sales dropped a seasonally adjusted 0.3% last month, the Commerce Department said Wednesday. Sales fell in most retail segments and auto dealers were particularly hard hit. Sales at auto dealers sank 1.5%. Excluding the auto sector, which can have an outsized effect, retail sales in the U.S. were unchanged. Declines were reported by Internet sellers, home-improvement stores, bars and restaurants, and retailers that sell electronics, appliances and home furnishings.
If sales were down because of the storm, they will be up later as people go out and spend the insurance money. My sis has power back on in NJ. She’ll be dropping a bundle restocking her freezer and making emergency preparedness preps. NY is asking the FedGov for something like $30 Billion for repairs.
See “my brother’s new car” from yesterday. They could have gone another 3 years or so before replacing that car.
I’m really starting to feel the food price inflation. Every time I walk into a half-decent restaurant, I walk out feeling like my wallet was stolen.
P.S. “Quality improvement in vehicles” = how to translate higher sticker prices into lower producer prices…(thanks, Zvi Griliches…)
Nov. 14, 2012, 8:42 a.m. EST
U.S. wholesale costs decline in October
Reversal linked to lower gas prices, quality improvements in vehicles
By Jeffry Bartash, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Wholesale prices in the U.S. posted the biggest decline in October in more than a year and a half, mostly because of lower costs of gasoline and motor vehicles.
The producer price index fell a seasonally adjusted 0.2% last month, the Labor Department said Wednesday. Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had predicted a 0.2% increase.
The cost of gasoline dropped 2.2% on a wholesale basis and the price of natural gas and home-heating oil also fell. As a result, the energy index declined by 0.5% in October after surging by 4.7% one month earlier.
Yet wholesale-food costs rose for the fifth straight month, up 0.4%. Pork prices jumped 8.1%, the fastest increase since summer 2008, while poultry and dairy prices climbed around 3% apiece.
“Let them eat ipads” — Federal Reserve Bankster William Dudley
Nov. 13, 2012, 1:46 a.m. EST
Australia business conditions sink to crisis level
By James Glynn
–Business conditions weaker despite string of rate cuts
–High A$, budget cuts, weak commodity prices weigh
–RBA clear to cuts rates in February, says NAB
SYDNEY–Australian business conditions deteriorated last month to levels not seen since the global financial crisis as a mining slowdown weighed on the country’s resources-dominated economy, a private sector survey Tuesday showed.
National Australia Bank’s index of business conditions–which tracks indicators such as goods orders, employment and profitability–fell 2 points to -5 points in October from September, the lowest level since May 2009 when world financial markets were still in turmoil.
The drop was also fueled by government spending cuts and a strong local currency that is making Australian products less competitive. The so-called Aussie has remained stubbornly above parity with the U.S. dollar for nearly all of 2012.
“The Australian economy appears to have stumbled into the fourth quarter,” said Alan Oster, chief economist at NAB. That strengthened the case for the central bank to continue a yearlong spate of interest-rate cuts to help spur the economy back to life, he added.
Shocking news! From out of the blue it came, no warning whatsoever.
as a mining slowdown weighed on the country’s resources-dominated economy ??
Mining slowdown means China slowdown…
I went to Australia last year and it seems to have one of the biggest RE bubbles in the World. Tiny shacks were a million dollars in Melbourne.
Once it falls, they will be in depression for the net decade. Idiots keep on building there and play with rates to keep it going. But for how long? They can’t learn anything from US or EU. Always have a story that “we are different”.
Apparently the U.S. is not the only country with looming fiscal cliff issues.
Japan Fiscal Cliff Averted as Deal Paves Way for Election
By Isabel Reynolds and Takashi Hirokawa - Nov 12, 2012 11:27 PM PT
Japan’s ruling party reached an agreement to end a budget standoff, paving the way for elections as soon as next month as a poll showed voter discontent with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda at a new high.
The deal was reached today after last night’s preliminary accord, Akira Amari, policy chief for the main opposition Liberal Democratic Party, told reporters in Tokyo. Noda has decided to dissolve parliament before the end of the year and call new elections either in the second half of December or in January, the Nikkei newspaper said today without citing anyone.
Today’s compromise between the Democratic Party of Japan and the two main opposition groups achieves one of Noda’s three conditions for fulfilling an August pledge to call an election “soon.” Public dissatisfaction over his handling of an economy that contracted in the third quarter increases the possibility of Japan getting its seventh leader in as many years.
“I welcome the fact that the three parties have reached an agreement,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura told reporters today in Tokyo. “It is my strong hope that the bill itself will be enacted quickly.”
Japan’s economy threatens return to recession
Japan’s economy shrank 3.5% in the third quarter and is poised to contract in the fourth quarter. The effect would be felt in California and elsewhere.
What’s the forward P.E. on Japan anyway? With so many forces arrayed against them, debt, demographics, finite resources, natural disasters, it’s a wonder they don’t commit mass seppuku.
When looking up the Japanese word for suicide (seppuku) I found lot’s of stories about Japanese companies that take out suicide insurance on their employees. Different culture for sure.
Anti-austerity strikes and protests across Europe - live
Live• HOW TO SHARE YOUR PICTURES
Eurozone crisis live: Day of Action underway across Europe
• Video: clashes in Milan
• Protests in Spain
• Why the protests were called
• Details of the strikes and protests
Thats was interesting…The strikes are obviously large but the protests seem small…Not nearly enough to cause serious termoil..
I found the posts after the pictures quite interesting…They are from people all over Europe…This one is from a person in Spain but it could have easily been posted on our own blog reflecting the condition we face;
According to electricity consumption levels here in Spain, it seems the strike will be a limited success confined to what´s left of the industrial sector and the transport sector.
The Trade Unions here are still anchored in a rhetoric of a bygone time with plenty of red flag waving and throaty male discourses clamouring for jobs for the workers. But where are the jobs going to come from?
Iberia is shedding nearly 5,000 workers in a large part due to unrealistic trade union demands and actions that have kept wages unrealistically high (a flight attendant earns up to 64,000 Euros and pilots around 200,000 Euros) for far too long.
Not surprisingly the low cost airlines have taken them to the cleaners, exactly as foreign producers in Asia and now South America are doing with other sectors of European industry.
While there is indeed scope to decide how the deficit problem is solved between tax increases for the wealthier echelons or public spending cuts to health and education and some serious criminal charges that need to be brought against the banking sector, nobody in Spain, today, is discussing the real issues of a loss of sovereignty to Brussels and Germany and how on earth Spain is going to re-employ the millions of workers who until recently were finishing off empty airports, unviable conference centres and the million unsold properties around the country.
“(a flight attendant earns up to 64,000 Euros and pilots around 200,000 Euros)”
“Up to” numbers aren’t very useful. What is the mean wage for those positions? What is the median?
Well I consider the wage issue more of a generalization in that there are so many people out of work that a flight attendent is doing pretty well in comparison….
What I really took away from the post is something that Ben has been beating into our skulls for many years now and that is this quote;
“how on earth Spain is going to re-employ the millions of workers who until recently were finishing off empty airports, unviable conference centres and the million unsold properties around the country”…
And recall that this is Spain. The country whose golden era was based on plundering the New World.
Alas, for Spain, they never developed a Plan B after the plundering era was over.
I thought plan B was being Florida (warm retirement/vacation spot) for more northerly parts of Europe.
That doesn’t mean it was a good plan.
Worked badly for both Florida and Spain, not to mention California.
Interesting, possibly-related factoid: Both CA and FL were Spanish colonies before becoming U.S. states…
Parts of No. CA were colonized by the Russians
Not “Russians”, commies. Fur trading commies.
Not surprisingly the low cost airlines have taken them to the cleaners
Like Ryan Air. I don’t know how they charge so little. They make our discount airlines look expensive.
They don’t pay tax on their fuel.
Or bother with amenities like seats or toilets.
The austerity beatings will continue until economic morale improves.
Anti-austerity strikes sweep southern Europe
By Borja Gonzalez and Andrei Khalip
MADRID/LISBON | Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:52am EST
(Reuters) - Police and protesters clashed in Spain and Italy on Wednesday as millions of workers went on strike across Europe to protest against spending cuts they say have made the economic crisis worse.
Hundreds of flights were cancelled, car factories and ports were at a standstill and trains barely ran in Spain and Portugal where unions held their first coordinated general strike.
In Spain, 81 people were arrested after scuffles at picket lines and damage to storefronts. Riot police in Madrid fired rubber bullets at protesters.
In central Rome, students stoned police in a protest over money-saving plans for the school system. A few dozen protesters, hurling bottles and large firecrackers, clashed with riot police, who fired tear gas and dragged away at least one bleeding protester into a police van, a Reuters witness said.
International rail services were disrupted by strikes in Belgium and workers in Greece, Italy and France demonstrated as part of a “European Day of Action and Solidarity”.
It was the biggest Europe-wide challenge by organized labor to austerity policies that have aggravated recessions and mass unemployment in nearly three years since the start of the euro zone’s debt crisis. But it seemed unlikely to force hard-pressed governments to change their cost-cutting strategies.
In Portugal and Greece - both rescued with European funds and under strict austerity programs - the economic downturn sharpened in the third quarter, data showed in Wednesday.
November 14, 2012, 3:37 a.m. ET
Spain, Portugal, Greece Strike Against Austerity
By ILAN BRAT and DAVID ROMÁN in Madrid,and PATRICIA KOWSMANN in Lisbon
Unions in Spain, Portugal and Greece went on strike Wednesday to protest government austerity plans amid a wide economic contraction across Europe’s periphery, but questions remained about the unions’ ability to influence economic policy.
The general strike led to minor violent incidents in Spain, even though morning business activity seemed to remain relatively normal.
Spain’s government said 32 people had been arrested since midnight, and national TV showed small clashes with police, as well as rallies held by union members in transportation hubs like train and subway stations.
The Spanish unions are protesting austerity cuts and an unemployment rate at 25% of the workforce.
Do I need to invest in stocks for retirement?
Written by Courier Newsroom
Friday, 02 November 2012 09:42
by Walter Updegrave
(CNN)—Can I skip investing in stocks altogether during retirement if I have saved a lot?—Andrew C., Florida
After seeing stocks plummet almost 60 percent between late 2007 and early 2009, I understand why you may want to avoid them. And you can, as long as you’re able to live comfortably on a very low withdrawal rate.
With a 100 percent bond portfolio, taking out 3 percent of your portfolio’s value initially and then adjusting that amount annually for inflation would leave you with roughly an 80 percent chance of your money lasting 30 years.
I pulled out all my money out of Wall Street and have a few rental houses. Paid cash and I’m getting 15% return. All were built in the last 5 years. Few more of these and I can retire peacefully.
How many other smart folks have taken everything out of the stock market and put it into investment homes?
Answer: Too many.
And, guess what, a lot of these smart folks don’t know squat about landlording. I’ll bet that they’re being schooled by their tenants.
“I’ll bet that they’re being schooled by their tenants.”
Is that somewhat similar to how parents are schooled by their kids?
How many other smart folks have taken everything out of the stock market and put it into investment homes?”
ahh no but I did buy one home to live in.
I guess one could buy REITS ? My stocks are getting pounded sold PAAS for a gain but bought APA which is still going down, and my Company stock is very low plus the fact they want me to work all Thanksgiving week hints of desperation.
You do the best you can in a zero sum economy.
Paid cash and I’m getting 15% return.
You have a lot more options when you have several hundred thousands dollars to start with.
“I pulled out all my money out of Wall Street and have a few rental houses.”
What are your losses, to date? $200k?
well then the answer is YES, he can skip stocks.
Looking for future investing opportunities? How about ganja?
Nov. 13, 2012, 9:24 p.m. EST
How to invest in legalized marijuana
By Quentin Fottrell
Mark Twain is said to have remarked that a gold rush is a good time to be in the pick and shovel business. Investors may be able to apply that same bit of wisdom to the growing number of U.S. states that have legalized pot.
Although federal law prohibits the sale or possession of marijuana, Massachusetts last week joined the ranks of states — 18 plus Washington, D.C. — that allow its use for people suffering from chronic illnesses like cancer, HIV/AIDS, multiple sclerosis and epilepsy. In Washington and Colorado, meanwhile, voters passed an initiative to allow pot for recreational use.
Hasn’t recreational MJ been legal in Alaska for, oh, decades?
It is not going to be easy. They would have tough licensing laws, not anyone can sell. Moreover, it would be illegal to take it oustside state borders.
Moreover, federal law still says it is illegal and states have own law now. Who will dominate? Might take years for it to sought out with Justice Dept. stepping in.
But pot smokers are all Obama voters (with food stamps and free Obama phones) so Eric Holder won’t be going after them.
LOL. Yeah that’s what Obama said, before Justice raided the pot clinics here.
Here’s the Washington State Implementation Guide:
The eastern part of the state is looking for agricultural opportunities for hemp as an alternative to current crops that require greater inputs of water and nutrients, and deplete the soil. It grows like a weed.
I had some issues with the initiative (I-502) but voted in favor of it and am glad it passed.
There is fear of the feds cracking down (such as confiscating land where hemp is grown), but from what I heard there aren’t enough federal marshalls to enforce it, and considering the vast majority of the people regionally do not agree with the federal law, it would probably not wind the hearts and minds of Washington State to enforce.
And Obama said he would not use federal resources to override states’ drug policy, but he obviously didn’t live up to this promise. Hopefully in his second term things will change. But I’m not holding my breath.
Comment by Martin
It is not going to be easy. They would have tough licensing laws, not anyone can sell.
You got that right. The brothas in the hood WILL still get popped for slinging dime bags on the corner.
Who could have not seen this coming? The baby boomers are getting older and are no longer interested in scoring weed the way they used to “back in the day”; a-hole dealers, shifty go-betweens, all cash transactions, cryptic phone calls…
Nawh… they too old to deal with that nonsense anymore.
They want to buy weed the same way they buy coffee and they are going to get it done using nothing but
Harsh interrogation techniques
White people are outstanding when it come to using words as tools.
meh… not so much.
Paradoxical post of the week.
Also an entire music industry that say’s you’re mistaken.
How do you get to $1 trillion outstanding student debt?
Bloomberg - Bureaucrats Paid $250,000 Feed Outcry Over College Costs:
“J. Paul Robinson, chairman of Purdue University’s faculty senate, strode through the halls of a 10 story concrete and glass administrative tower.
“I have no idea what these people do,” said Robinson, waving his hand across a row of offices, his voice rising.
The 59 year old professor of biomedical engineering is leading a faculty revolt against bureaucratic bloat at the public university in Indiana. In the past decade, the number of administrative employees jumped 54 percent, almost eight times the growth of tenured and tenure-track faculty.
Purdue has a $313,000 a year acting provost and six vice and associate vice provosts, including a $198,000 chief diversity officer. It employs 16 deans and 11 vice presidents, among them a $253,000 marketing officer and a $433,000 business school chief.”
Good for him. I can recall having snarky conversations with my public school teacher mother about the same trend hitting her school district.
You’d think a growing role of technology could reduce administrative demands at universities…
You would think.
But universities are very big on the body count. As in, adding more and more bodies. And those bodies have to get together and have meetings. Lots of meetings.
Yours Truly knows the above from experience. I worked at two universities.
Were you the assistant executive to the executive assistant?
FPSS may not like it but yes salaries for faculty have sky rocketed in the past 10 years. Faculty who used to make 70-80K in 2001 now make 200-250K in B and A grade universities, which is around 200 universities across USA. That is 9 month salary. Fresh PhDs are getting hired at more than 200K especially in business fields for 9 months. Would it ever end? Who is eventually paying for it?
If the faculty are really worth that kind of money, why do they have this cartel of promoting “Tenure”. They can go elsewhere in industry and get that money and leave the poor students alone.
Education has become such a big business that it has lost its purpose.
FWIW, I took a looksie at the pay scales in CU Boulder. Most professors are paid in the low 100’s.
And how high are the salaries of those they “professored?”
Are they also in the low 100’s on average?
It’d be interesting to find out.
According to the tables, people with the title “Professor” started as low as 100K. There are some in the high 100’s, and I suspect they are the department chairs.
And keep in mind that CU isn’t a “B” university.
Superstar academic-only profs in the UC system have pensions in the 120K range. Those in the medical and business departments can retire with appreciably more.
“Faculty who used to make 70-80K in 2001 now make 200-250K in B and A grade universities, which is around 200 universities across USA.”
Flip side of the student debt bubble…
Where are you getting 9 months/year? Certainly not from sci-eng tenure track. Instructors, maybe. But they don’t get paid $100K.
Oh please, oxide. You don’t expect these jokers to understand that research takes time and that a lot of it has to be done when there aren’t undergrads all over the place who need lectures and exams and office hours and stuff like that.
They got it from Rush, actually. As part of breaking teachers’ unions, the push from conservatives was to start calling the 9-month schedule “part-time” work.
I guess they think college is like high school.
Rush = bloviating gasbag with an MSM bully pulpit…
I always wanted to nail a diversity officer for lying about Diversity…..
See where i come from Diversity Includes ME!
$198,000 chief diversity officer
No, Diversity does NOT include you. Even if you are a minority there (see also John Rocker’s rant), you are still a member of the Oppressor Class.
To breed or not to breed:
FYI if you hit the 10-free-articles-a-month firewall, delete the last part of the URL string going back to the question mark. And thanks to HBB poster Spook for sharing this trick.
Once you’ve made the decision to have children there’s no turning back like there is with a House or SUV purchase, which can be repossessed or sold. And men who run-off leaving a mother and kids to fend for themselves deserve nothing less than society’s deepest disdain and harshest punishment.
That’s what they get for passing session parameters in the query string… If they stored them in the db between page requests that workaround would fail…
We posted an Asia Times Online article by Spengler on Monday that discussed this:
But it’s Racist® to talk about why Asian immigrants achieve higher educational attainment than immigrants from Latin America.
Could it be because the Asians we import with H1-B visas have college degrees and the illegals we import to scrub our toilets are functionally illiterate?
In other words, we are importing Asia’s cream of the crop and Latin Am’s bottom of the barrel.
I’m not convinced the illegal immigrants from Latin America are the bottom of the barrel. No, the people who are doing well there have zero reason to come illegally, but the people who make it all the way over have drive and desire and the ability to get through a fairly dangerous journey.
Not the people with advanced engineering degrees, but pretty comparable to my ancestors who scraped together passage in the bottom of the ship and hit Ellis Island with the names and locations of a few people from the same town who already were here and not a heck of a lot else. They could read and write their own language, but didn’t know English. And they grew up in families that were in a business of some kind (I think one of my great grandfathers had been the town handyman), not subsitance farming, but the difference isn’t that huge.
I think the difference is My Grandmother came over from Hungary and yes she had to speak some English to get in, then settled in Bridgeport with lots of other Hungarians…and had to learn English. My uncle escaped Hungary before the Russians blew up his house by days….and he had to be fluent in English to get in…
So why should we allow illegals to stay here if they refuse to learn our language? The best idea no interpreters at immigration hearings..No English No Stayee..
I’m not convinced the illegal immigrants from Latin America are the bottom of the barrel.
I agree that they have the drive to get here, though a lot of that immigration is chain based. My sister, a bilingual ed teacher, has seen this first hand. The families are for the most part functionally illiterate, and by Mexican standards that is almost “bottom of the barrel”. The only thing lower is the small indigenous minority that doesn’t speak Spanish.
There is a great deal of contempt in Mexico for these people, and Mexican society is glad to be rid of them and even gladder that the USA has been willing to soak up the Mexodus for decades. We are their escape valve.
The immigrants are not stupid, but they hail from a subculture that doesn’t understand the value of education.
I’ll take first generation illegal immigrants over whitetrash meth louts ANY day. And for “bottom of the barrel” it’s hard to beat a Bev Hills/Hollywood RNC fundraiser.
I’ll take first generation illegal immigrants over whitetrash meth louts ANY day.
I’ve had other people express that to me as well. I agree when talking meth heads, but it seems like is really meant by that sentence in most cases is “poor white people who don’t vote the way I think they should”. And I don’t agree with that.
Oh yes, those distasteful white countrymen of ours…they’re more of a threat than some illiterate peasant, right?
Well, I have no idea about ahansen, but I’ve talked to people who when you press them on it will flat out admit they prefer the illegals to the locals. Usually has something to do with the illegals being much more pleasant to be around. Which makes sense if you have no legal standing…of course you’re going to be polite to everyone and just be happy with whatever crumbs you can scavenge. It’s the citizens that get all uppity.
That was in no way an endorsement of illegal immigration or a statement of partisanship, merely an indication of my level of distaste for those of our countrymen who discredit their citizenship.
Yes,it is like the u.s. Sending all the people in our trailer parks and sending them to Canada.
Wait a minute…
Posted from cell phones,yes some very good people live in trailers but in general you would not get the best of society from many parks
I always thought trailers parks were the poor white people answer to living in an all white community? (no I don’t blame em)
Those wheels on the house have white flight written all over them.
Personally I prefer boats cause many black people don’t like water because in Africa you risk your life when you go in the water because of gators, pirahnas and other scary tropical stuff.
I thought piranhas were native to South America.
So what are you saying? Just giving you a hard time :-).
To me they’re just a testament to how badly lots of people want to be able to stay separated from other people regardless of race. Attached dwellings make a lot of sense, but people just can’t get along with each other well enough to take full advantage of that.
this one is an artiste in waiting
“…he says his dream is to spend two years at a community college then transfer to a four-year university, studying music and fine arts….”
A barrista in waiting, I think you mean. Don’t forget the soy!
The fact that immigrants want to come to America is a good sign for America. When they no longer want to come here that will be the day that either the rest of the world has achieved something great or America has lost its greatness (or both). I fear the latter more than I fear the immigrants.
Because the Mexodus has had such a positive economic impact on the state of California for the last thirty years, let’s spread that to all the other states.
The GOP Chamber of Commerce types need the Mexodus for cheap labor.
The Diversitard liberals need the Mexodus’ anchor baby kidz for votes.
Middle class and working class white and black U.S. citizens do NOT benefit from the Mexodus!
Exactly. There is no need to import unskilled labor.
To be clear I was not saying the influx of immigrants from Mexico was good for America. I was saying the fact that immigrants still want to come to America is a good sign that we haven’t yet become a complete hll hole. These are two different things.
Goon - look at it this way… only 100 million more Mexican left to move to the states and we’re done. Come to think of it Canada only has about 33 million people so maybe we’ll just keep ‘em moving North to equalize things bit. Brilliant! Problem solved.
You’re a Racist®. You hate white people.
Those making over $250K per year, the “rich” who make up 1.91% of the U.S. population:
1) Are lazy – sit by the pool half the day eating bon bons. They wouldn’t know hard work if it hit them over the head
2) Steal money from their employees. They skim off the different between wages and productive value added and are an enemy of the working class.
3) Steal money from their customers. They could sell the products and services at their cost plus the cost of wage but instead they steal from their customers by adding a profit margin to everything they sell.
4) They control the government for their own enrichment and pay no taxes.
5) They were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. They have trust funds from their parents. They live off of tax free bonds. They are given every advantage and are sent to the elite Ivy League school and get 4.0 GPA’s even if they don’t do any work because their parent’s donate a gymnasium.
6) They outsource jobs to China.
7) Everything they own was taken from this country belongs to this country and should be redistributed back to the workers.
They force the labor force to unnaturally urbanize and specialize. This leads to alienation and poor health.
9) Everything they do is for greed and the profit motive and therefore they produce scarcity of goods for the workers. They never produce what the people really need.
10) They create massive wealth inequality the world has never seen.
11) They not only take all wealth they take all the best women.
12) They poison the world with their money.
The only solution is to redistribute the land and the factories to the workers, de-urbanize America and give each worker their own land. We should share all women freely and end the traditional family. We should centrally control the production of goods to maximize the standard of living for all workers without a profit motive. We should abolish money. No man should be forced to specialize. We can all do any job when we please and where we please. No one should have an advantage in education or wealth. We should strive for International Equality!
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” — Barack Obama 2nd Inaugural, January 21, 2013
I’ve heard every single one of these notions floated on this board except the one about the women. They are standard platforms of International Socialism. It could be that when women joined the workforce in the 1980’s that they were no longer objectified in the same way. Prior to that as late as the 1970’s the International Socialist platform was to destroy the nuclear family and make all women prostitutes. It was kind of a ploy like the 79 virgins promised by a certain religion to attract young men to the cause. Maybe it no longer flies. But they rest of the planks still seem to be going strong.
I’m a long time student of International Socialism. Of the 192 countries in the world (depending on who you recognize as a country) 133 of them have tried International Socialism. All but four or five (depending on how you classify them) have failed in object poverty. 160 million people were murdered in the name of International Socialism and that doesn’t even count those that lost their lives in wars. That’s just the gulags and killing fields and such. Between wars, slavery and totalitarianism most of wealth in most countries has been destroyed. In the modern era what some consider American exceptionalism or The Swedish Model have more to do with survivor bias. The wealth in most of Africa, South America, Asia and East Europe was completely destroyed by these causes in terms of resources, productive capacity and educational attainment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the commies used to stick chopsticks through babies’ eardrums before splitting them in half with bayonets and raping their mothers. Do you ever listen to yourself?
This reads like a 1950’s radio talk show out of the Arizona desert.
You claim to be hardworking and well-educated. Why not show us some intellectual rigor so we can believe you?
You claim to be hardworking and well-educated. Why not show us some intellectual rigor so we can believe you?
I think he’s a fake.
I’ve heard every single one of these notions floated on this board except the one about the women.
I’m somewhat embarassed to admit this, but I’ve been reading this blog almost every day for six or seven years. I don’t remember ever reading anyone on this blog write that those who earn over $250k are lazy people who sit around eating bon bons.
gimme gimme gimme…..i really beginning to love the sound of that…..
always did like black flag ramones and zappa.
Who determines “ability” and who determines “need”?
Always problematic when those determining “need” also determine who is “able”, especially when those who “need” are different than those are “able” to pay more.
The One will determine that for you.
Professor Yuri N. Maltsev is a must read / listen to. You can find his lectures on iTunes U or iTunes podcasts. He’s a former Soviet government official. He brings in a good amount of humor to an otherwise horrific history.
Prices determine need in a market system. Lenin in a meeting of the Politburo said that International Socialist should take over all governments in the world except one nation so that they could check the prices there.
And who says Lenin didn’t have a sense of humor.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve…” - Radical Right Wing Document floating around
The two things International Socialist hate in a debate that will make them walk away and give up:
1) A Calculator
2) A list summarizing all their International Socialist Doctrines
It is a religion kind of like Scientology - they have to withhold certain aspects from their prey. You have to earn you way up to get the full teaching. They know if they reveal all the cards in their hand at once that their prey will not be willing. So they entice you one point at a time with a vision of a kinder, gentler International Socialism. Only once they get you hooked do you learn about the whole violent revolution stick.
Hey but be thankful we live in the states. At least here we have a fairly conservative agenda on both the left and the right.
In many places in the world you have a choice between the totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and the totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist.
I’ve studied the history of many third world countries during the cold war. Most of them went to totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and the totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist governments. But the bloody revolutions are always the same.
I could go on all day about the stories in Africa, S. America and Asia. Take for example Equatorial Guinea. One of my personal favorites. On Christmas 1975, Macías had 150 alleged coup plotters executed to the sound of a band playing Mary Hopkin’s tune Those Were the Days in a national stadium. It is estimated that 100,000 people (approximately one-third of the population) were killed or fled into exile during Macías’ reign.
Worldwide 133 million killed. And we wonder why we don’t have surplus in the world. If mankind was just left alone to be productive and to pursue happiness we would have a world of abundance.
If mankind was just left alone to be productive and to pursue happiness we would have a world of abundance.
Except that goes against human nature. What really happens is that a tiny minority ends up owning everything and uses its power to get laws changed so it stays that way.
Never for long. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism. It doesn’t matter if it is totalitarian Marxist International Socialism or totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascism or a totalitarian oligarchic Monopoly. That’s why we have anti-monopoly laws and trust busting. Support candidates that believe in that. And in the U.S. we have a death tax. They may keep it until they die but for the most part these rest goes back to the state or charity ultimately. It’s not perfect but you can not take it with you.
“It is a religion kind of like Scientology - they have to withhold certain aspects from their prey. You have to earn you way up to get the full teaching. They know if they reveal all the cards in their hand at once that their prey will not be willing. So they entice you one point at a time with a vision of a kinder, gentler International Socialism. Only once they get you hooked do you learn about the whole violent revolution stick.”
You nailed it. International Socialists as you call them (they call themselves progressives in the United States) are in our schools and universities doing exactly what you just outlined.
Besides indoctrination of our youth, the other danger is incrementalism. The Fabian Socialist model of pushing or nudging society just enough so as to not cause a forcible backlash. A Hansen told you exactly that in her posts on Saturday, they don’t even hide it any longer because they think we have passed the point where the progress can be reversed.
Also, if you want to read some creepy Orwellian information, go ahead and Google the Fabian Society. Make sure to check out the image of the Fabian Window, on it you will see many disturbing images including a shield depicting a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
That’s why we have anti-monopoly laws and trust busting.
That kind of contradicts your earlier statement about leaving people alone to do their thing.
nickpapageorgio someone like you would be welcome in the SF Bay Area bunker.
Colorado, since Rome itself (and before) this truth has been self evident. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism. Marx was right about one thing - monopolies are the end of capitalism.
monopolies are the end of capitalism.
that’s because the only true monopoly is sanctioned by government(telmex, US Post Office, etc.).
ma bell was never a monopoly because anyone could have gone into business against her. but no one could afford to because the product was too good and cheap for anyone to compete with her.
“nickpapageorgio someone like you would be welcome in the SF Bay Area bunker.”
Hopefully I won’t have to take you up on that
if you want to read some creepy Orwellian information, read nickpapageorgio and SF Bay Area’s posts!
2banana, someone like you would be welcome in the SF Bay Area bunker.
Sounds like a bunker party! Everyone bring their PJs.
Do they deliver pizza to the bunker, or is it in a Secret Location?
Why are you using distracting the conversation from housing?
Because every time I talk about housing and the economy someone brings up one of the 12 points above and touts this failed model of International Socialism. Let’s just bring the whole thing out in the open and let everyone see it in the light of day. If we were allowed to pursue our dreams with hard work and sounds money based on our original founding documents we wouldn’t need International Socialism. Achievement should be the goal. If someone doesn’t understand that then they can never follow your arguments about housing policy and we’ll never have a real housing “recovery” based on solid economics.
“Because every time I talk about housing and the economy someone brings up one of the 12 points above and touts this failed model of International Socialism.
Give me an example because I don’t understand.
It IS connected to housing. Paying high property taxes to fund public union goon salaries and pensions is a slippery slope to Obama unleashing Eric Holder’s NKVD and fundamentally transforming America into a Khmer Rouge, socialist utopia.
Reminds me of this:
Look, most people respect hard work and achievement. Attempting to conflate the attempt to break the extractive stranglehold of the Swindler Classes - mostly finance elites and their bought politicians - with trying to turn the country into Zimbabwe or into a communist country is at best disingenous, and an attempt to maintain that extractive stranglehold.
And yet people on this board advocate exactly that - a return to International Socialism. And they attempt to conflate success, hard money and an economy based on the founding documents to the pre-Upton Sinclair “The Jungle” with child labor and world domination by a single trust monopoly.
Did you completely MISS the whole Wall St./world-wide financial bailout disaster and fraud?
There is NO conflating about it. It is FACT.
A simple google will show fraud and malfeasance time and time again by the 1%.
Over and over and over and over. These are facts. FACTS recorded by and judged by, existing law.
To buy all this they first have to convince you that you are a victim. That you with your own power can never succeed in finding happiness, security, family, home and community. Only a totalitarian state power can give that to you.
Man is one of the most evolutionary successful higher animals of all time. He is adaptable. And he has a really cool opposable thumb. If he was such a victum he would have been weeded out long ago.
It’s uncanny how all of the international socialist in history come from wealthy aristocratic families where they never really had to work. Never really engaged in the real world. They never really produced anything. Lived an academic life… Marx himself spent more money every year than the top 1% of the English population at the time. And the top 1% of England at the time was quite well off. And he didn’t earn a penny of it. Engels and others had him on a perpetual trust fund. And yet he always demanded more money. More money!!! He spent on lavish outings lived like an aristocrat on other people’s money.
Never really engaged in the real world. They never really produced anything.
Same is true for the Wall Street and hedge fund pigmen. See also the part in Tom Wolfe’s Bonfire of the Vanities where protagonist Sherman McCoy tries to explain his job as a bond trader to his daughter as collecting “crumbs of gold”.
Thanks for the reference - I’m not aware of this - I’ll check it out.
Crooks are crooks in any class and need to go down. We need a new man in the AG office.
Those making over $250K per year, the “rich” ??
Are Farmers Rich ?? I suppose many of them do not make $250,000. per year but they are “richer” than most…
Farmer’s make up 0.12% of the rich in 2010 according to the latest IRS data that just came out:
Salaries and wages: 53.22%
Partnership and S corporation net income: 18.76%
Net capital gain: 13.56%
Ordinary dividends: 4.01%
Business or profession net income: 3.63%
Qualified dividends: 3.33%
Taxable interest: 1.97%
Taxable pensions and annuities: 1.70%
Tax-exempt interest: 1.67%
Rent and royalty net income: 1.63%
Taxable Individual Retirement Arrangement distributions: 1.59%
“Taxable Individual Retirement Arrangement distributions:” 1.59%
Estate and trust net income: 0.72%
Taxable Social Security benefits: 0.55%
State income tax refunds: 0.29%
“Sales of property other than capital
assets, net gain:” 0.24%
Farm net income: 0.12% <===
Another important point is most of the “rich” are only rich for one or a few years of their life. They were once the poor or the lower middle class. And when they retire they will no longer be the “rich.” I personally don’t want to be the “rich” forever. I have enough saved and at some point I’ll free treasure my time more than more income.
My sister is a dairy farmer. She has been the “rich” for a couple of years. But most years they struggle. It’s like that with most of the “rich.” They have one or two boom years. She sold off most of her cattle one year and got a huge windfall. But then the next year she’s got much less income. So it goes.
It isn’t a class so much as a time of one’s life for many.
Looks like many of my posts are getting blocked.
I’ll say this and then I’m heading out for a run up in the SF Bay hills:
Success is what matters. And success is whatever it means to you. The international socialists will try to sway you into their cult by pointing to the “rich” and filling you with envy and feeling of hopelessness. Don’t buy it! Don’t let anyone dictate to you what success is. Sit down and figure out what success means to you personally and go after it. Success may mean being the best teacher in your field. Success may mean being an awesome solder. Success for most people doesn’t involve being rich unless they let themselves get brainwashed by the MSNBC. People get themselves into trouble by trying to achieve someone else’s definition for success. They get depressed. They buy stuff they don’t need and can’t afford. And they never achieve what they really want. It is a cultural sickness. Many societies of the past have sacrificed riches for a chance at a more creative life - take ancient Greece for example. If what you want is to create art do it. If what you want is to find the perfect girl go for it. If all you want to do is travel the world then get started.Maybe you really do want to own your own home. Maybe you are happy to rent. Maybe you just want to grow the biggest victory garden ever or go off the grid. But don’t do it because someone else says that is what you should want and don’t feel bad if you don’t have it. I have a really good friend and it took him 40 years to finally realize he didn’t want to be in a permanent relationship. And now he is finally happy. To many people being “rich” isn’t really what they want. If it is fine - go for it. But otherwise get out a pen and write “the list.” All the things you want to do before you die and all the things you need to get done so you don’t have to be destitute when you get old. Then do them. No one ever got depressed following their real dreams.
“…Looks like many of my posts are getting blocked….”
That’s because most of us limit ourselves to one irrelevant jeremiad a month, and show our host the courtesy of posting the rest on our own blogs.
No ahansen you don’t limit yourself to once a month. Just as nickpapageorgio noted you are a master of indoctrination. In daily posts via incrementalism you are pushing and nudging the Totalitarian Marxist International Socialist agenda just enough so as to not cause a forcible backlash. I have a feeling that nickpapageorgio knows more about the insidiousness of “The Internationals” then he lets on. Perhaps his family has faced the full horror “The Internationals” first hand because he has a keen nose for rats.
160 million dead in 133 countries wasn’t enough to convince you that “The Internationals” where wrong. You won’t be satisfied until you pillaged the other 27 remaining nations of the Earth and killed millions more along with whatever middle class they have.
Some of you think it can’t happen again. And yet it is happening right under you noses in several third world countries as I type this. Some of you think it can’t happen here. One day you may wake up to news of a general removed from office over a scandal. Then a strike by some Navel crew in San Diego. Then the next day another strike by another Navy crew. They occupy a public building. Nothing to be concerned about it you think. That is how it starts and things can happen very quickly.
One day you may wake up to news of a general removed from office over a scandal.
five have just been removed or are in the process of being removed. they must make sure they have the military with them when they make their move.
the media will never tell us what’s going on. they are part of it. our guns and the 2nd amendment are our final lines of defense.
battle on, i’m a fan.
“Just as nickpapageorgio noted you are a master of indoctrination.”
I suppose he is an expert on the topic.
I’ll be sure to check under my bed tonight; although with all the commies I keep hidden there, I’m not sure where an International Socialist is gonna find the room to fit, too….
Watch out for Progressives, too. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
‘many of my posts are getting blocked’
I haven’t blocked any of your posts. And I don’t see them in the spam box either. You may have a delay here and there, but that is beyond my control. If you are actually missing posts, there may be something else going on. You can email me if you want with specifics as I don’t want to go through troubleshooting on the blog.
Thanks - it was just delayed - everything posted while I was out.
Aw shucks . . . I was ready for some company here in purgatory!
“No one ever got depressed following their real dreams.”
My, what a sheltered life you lead.
Yes, that one can be easily debunked. Many, though certainly not all, young women dream of having babies and postpartum depression is a very common result.
What utter bullcrap.
The facts are that the 1% HAVE a PROVEN track record of repeatedly breaking the law and that the middle class HAS been decimated and continues to be decimated.
The facts are that the bottom 1% HAVE a PROVEN track record of repeatedly breaking the law.
You see how easy it is to lie.
I can turn that statement upside down and it is equally true.
Crooks exist in every economic class from the bottom 1% to the top 1%. No class has a monopoly on crooks. That makes your facts useless drivel. I catch the lowest 1% trying to burglarize my neighborhood all the time.
Moreover, you then leap forward to use that as an excuse to steal from the “rich” via international socialism. One is not a justification for the other. Based on your logic I should drive to Oakland and steal from them to make it right.
Embedded in your belief system is that if someone makes $250K+ a year they must have stolen it from someone else. They couldn’t possibly have created value or expanded the size of the economic pie. I never stole anything from anyone.
Finally you assert the middle class HAS been decimated. The middle class HAS expanded rapidly at an unprecedented rate. We now have a booming middle class around the world in China, India, Singapore, South Korea, Eastern Europe, Russia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Tanzania, Angola and Ghana. In fact since the cold war totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist regimes have fallen billions have joined the middle class in Africa, Asia, South America and Eastern Europe. The Southern Hemisphere is exploding with growth like never before. All because of the fall of socialism and slavery.
If you understood the first thing about modern world history you would know the totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist regimes have been a disaster for the middle class. Only now are the free to prosper since the 1990’s.
Oh what’s that I hear? I think I hear the fifteenth century calling. It says you want to recall Pedro Álvares Cabral and Vasco da Gama so they won’t make it from Portugal to Brazil, the horn of Africa and beyond to India and Oceania. Let me tell you something. Globalization has been going on for over 500 years. Get over it already and grow up!
“If you understood the first thing about modern world history you would know the totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist regimes have been a disaster for the middle class. Only now are the free to prosper since the 1990’s. “
Is that why they now call themselves Republicans?
The totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist regimes totally destroyed the middle classes in countries like China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. In fact they did so across Africa, Asia, S. America and Eastern Europe. That’s why they have cheap labor. Did it ever occur to you that since the 1980’s through the 1990’s over half the worlds population and over half the worlds nations have emerged from totalitarian socialist regimes and finally become free? That is a huge labor force for the world to absorb. That is why wages are going down in the West. We are absorbing the labor pool that was decimated by totalitarian socialist regimes. You can hide under a rock if you want but let me let you in a little secret - they are going to join the free world. They have no intention of going back to the hell hole totalitarian socialism created. You can pretend it isn’t happening but they are part of the world economy. Is that going to cause some wage deflation in the West? You bet you it will. Let that be a lesson to NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!
Modern history? Did you miss that whole Wall St. bailout thing? That wasn’t the bottom 1%, in case you didn’t know.
Modern history? Did you just miss the whole thing about murdering 160 million innocent people and making the female population into prostitut*s? That wasn’t the top 1%, in case you didn’t notice.
When someone on this blog mentions the decline of the middle class, you should assume that he or she is referring to the American middle class, unless otherwise specified. Also, no one on this blog is is proposing Marxism or Naziism for the USA, so you’re basically having an argument with yourself.
MightyMike, When someone on this blog mentions the decline of the middle class, you should think globally and why it had declined in the U.S. due to the international wage deflation caused by the over one half of humanity joining the free market after the complete failure of totalitarian Marxist International Socialist and totalitarian Nationalist Socialist Fascist regimes and make sure to NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!
I’ll add you to the Marxist list.
The decline of the American middle class began in the 1970s, years before the end of Communism in eastern and central europe and the emergence of mainland China as a major exporting nation.
Also, what have I written on this blog to make you call me a Marxist? And do you understand that calling people names contributes nothing to the debate here?
Wow.So all 1%ers are criminals and deserve to have their wealth taken from them and given to the “middle class”?
Your justification form socialism gets better and better.
aNYCdj, goon squad, Rental Watch, 2banana, nickpapageorgio, and Ben Jones , based on this thread you would be welcome in the SF Bay Area bunker when the SHTF.
Is it okay with your mom if that many people spend the night?
LMAO. If the “S” doesn’t get you, the verbiarrhea will.
When TSHTF, aNYCdj, goon squad, and Ben may have a hard time getting cross country to take advantage of your generous offer. My guess is anyone more than 300 miles from the bunker will have to walk part of the way.
There ALWAYS seems to be a real estate bubble and FB link to all news today.
And that is a massive haircut!
McAfee’s Unusual Gospel of Wealth Led Him to Belize
CNBC - By Robert Frank - November 14th, 2012
It all started in the mid-2000s, when his tech fortune topped $100 million.
He built a mansion in Colorado, a sprawling ranch in New Mexico, and had homes in Utah and California — not to mention countless real-estate holdings that were investments. He had a private jet along with a fleet of other hobby planes. He started collecting antiques and art.
But in 2008, when the housing market crashed along with financial markets, McAfee’s fortune evaporated. The value of this real estate plunged. His financial investments, some of which were tied to Lehman Brothers, also tanked.
By 2009, his $100 million fortune had shrunk to around $4 million, and he was auctioning off properties to the highest bidders.
Probably didn’t help that around 2008 was also when free virus protection was becoming commonly available and “good enough”.
McAffee was bought by Intel. I assume it was to embed security into their firmware and by means of their monopoly position in the hardware market leverage it to control their (and our) future. Pretty slick. All it will take is a massive cyber attack and our Government will roll over and require everyone to use “Intel Inside”.
Maybe time for a product name change?
They don’t use it as much on the desktop end by on the corporate networking and server end it’s still profitable. Brocade and other integrate it into their switching infrastructure for example to do state packet inspection.
Kids never take Khat anally. That is what this guy was essentially doing.
WTF??? You wonder why your posts are blocked?
I’m dead serious. John McAfee was trying to concentrate cathinones from the East African plant khat. It is called MDPV which is psychosis-inducing hallucinogen used to augment sexual experience. In order to increase the effectiveness he was taking it anally as a suppository. He setup his one chemical lab in Belize to do this. He posted full details himself a Russian site called Bluelight. You can read it there or look for an article on Gizmodo.com.
You may remember Khat from the film Black Hawk Down. It is chewed by people in Somalia, Ethiopia, Ertrea, Djbouti and Yemen. It causes dangerous levels of paranoia and leads to violent outbreaks which is why he murdered his neighbor. The locals chew it sort of like the people chew coca leaves in the Andes as a stimulant. Coca is also sometimes used as a suppository also. But what this guy did was to isolate and concentrate the cathinones from Khat into a very dangerous drug and take it as a suppository making it even more dangerous.
This is a good read if you are interested:
The last thing I would be doing with a hundred mil in the bank, is sticking leaves up my butt in Belize.
Saudi Arabia consider raw Khat so dangerous that they are constructing a physical wall between Saudi Arabia and Yemen to stop the import of Khat into the kingdom. Makes you wonder.
I’m all for legalizing Mary J. and taxing the heck out of it. But some drugs are dangerous.
If you have time to kill study the whole Somalia, Ethiopia, Ertrea, Djbouti and Yemen complex and posit how much of the human depravity is due to Khat. It is and always will be a critical part of the world. Ignore it at your own peril.
But some drugs are dangerous.
doesn’t matter. the bad consequences of ant-drug laws are greater than the consequences of drugs being legal.
Possibly - you *and* I don’t know because they have never all been legal. I do know that legalizing M.J. in some states for a period of time is the next step. And we do know that that one drug is responsible for a considerable amount of the cost of the “war on drugs” and a considerable benefit to the “drug gangs” and the violence that occurs as a result. So can we agree to start there? A few states and M.J. and see how it goes?
SF got me googlin’ tonight.
The video link is fake - that was a fun little dive down the rabbit hole. It’s always nice to have a little free time to kick around some wild ideas.
you *and* I don’t know because they have never all been legal.
at one time they were all legal.
when codine was legal there was a guy that worked as a handyman for 3 widowed women. one of them let him use a shack for a place to live.
he paid his way with his repair work. and he drank his cough medicine everyday. people were afraid of him, but he never bothered anyone. he just wanted to be left alone.
he probably would have been out committing various crimes to pay for his high, if there was no other way for him to get it. he was a net benefit to society even with his bad habit. he didn’t cost society a thing because he was able to live his life as he wanted.
a lit cigarette consumed him and the shack when he fell asleep while smoking. no one else got hurt.
Muggy - you are growing on me - a curious mind for sure. Keep thinking for yourself. I always value a freeman.
So can we agree to start there? A few states and M.J. and see how it goes?
sure, it’s better than nothing.
Then slow and steady wins the race.
And state’s rights over federal powers are key - we need to do real time experiments on a state-by-state basis. No one knows until it has been tried.
Let’s say we all agree on this. I’m with you.
And state’s rights over federal powers are key
federal powers were meant to over ride states powers, as long as they’re enumerated in the constitution. other than those enumerated, the federal government is supposed to have NO powers what-so-ever.
How many other real estate investors have turned to narcotic use, murder and other crimes in the wake of their massive investment losses?
Quite a few. Keep an eye on the news. You’ll see at least one story almost every week.
“But in 2008, when the housing market crashed along with financial markets, McAfee’s fortune evaporated. The value of this real estate plunged. His financial investments, some of which were tied to Lehman Brothers, also tanked.”
There are suckers, and there are rich suckers. Gotcha!
A story that will bring a tear to the eye of the Swindler Class. A tear of joy.
Indentured Servitude in Hong Kong Abetted by Loan Firms
By Sheridan Prasso and Cathy Chan - Nov 13, 2012 5:01 PM ET
Thousands of women in Hong Kong with similar stories, most from Indonesia and the Philippines, are working off debt by turning over almost all of their pay for months to loan companies and agencies that place them with families, according to interviews with a dozen workers, four nonprofit groups that handle complaints and academic researchers. The moneylenders, part of Hong Kong’s shadow-banking system, are helping circumvent laws intended to protect the women, they said.
“It is definitely indentured servitude, modern-day slavery,” said Holly Allan, founder of nonprofit Helpers for Domestic Helpers. “There are tens of thousands of them, not only working for no salary, but with no rest days. Each and every one believes it’s a normal thing. We have several clients who have worked for three years and never made any money.”
Damn those bottom 1%!
The free, unfettered market at work. Creating slaves.
Spaniards are cancelling their mobile phone service at a rate of 250,000 per month.
And Spaniards LOVE to talk on the phone. Oh, do they ever!
Are they cancelling completely or just dropping the overpriced contracts in favor of the MUCH cheaper month-to-month services?
Dice el CNN:
Un cuarto de millón de españoles renunció a sus teléfonos móviles en septiembre, un descenso que dejó a compañías como Telefónica y Vodafone afrontando el grueso de las cancelaciones por parte de consumidores golpeados por la recesión.
My essentially BIL, lives in Barcelona and is married to a Spanish lawyer and I am amazed at how quickly the hard times have hit. He still does alright, but she is worried about losing her government job. By the way, immigrants like her, I would always welcome into this country.
I think Israel’s attack on Hamas is to set the stage for an attack on Iran or at least make Iran think it is about to be attacked. Hamas and Hezbollah are used by Iran to attack Israel and you know if they bomb Iran, there will be missile attacks.
I think your daily attacks on the HBB is a contrived means to detract from the truth and housing.
You’re a freak.
Here’s one for folks:
WSJ: FHA Set to Ask for Taxpayer Funds
First paragraph that says it all…
“The Federal Housing Administration is expected to report this week it could exhaust its reserves because of rising mortgage delinquencies, according to people familiar with the agency’s finances, a development that could result in the agency needing to draw on taxpayer funding for the first time in its 78-year history.”
I heard something interesting about FHA the other day from my partner who was at a RE conference. Mainly that the bankers at the conference LOVED providing FHA financing. The reason is that it satisfied some regulation to provide debt financing to lesser qualified individuals. And rather than provide that same kind of financing to a business owner with sketchy credit in order to satisfy the regulatory need (and have a hard time recouping any of the $), they would rather provide it to 10 borrowers with sketchy credit where they could get to the real estate (and have it guaranteed by the government).
Said succinctly, making FHA loans allowed the banks to satisfy that regulatory need, and thus provide loans to more qualified borrowers for the rest of their lending business.
If it’s up to banks, don’t expect the FHA spigot to dry up anytime soon.
Bailout, bailout, bailouts are a-coming.
So far it’s been a great month to be largely out of the stock market.
Not the comment about the Dow being “off more than 180 points” is just for today. It’s off more like 1,100 points from its 52-week high.
Stocks fall 4% this month
U.S. stocks close at multimonth lows with budget negotiations to avert more than $600 billion in automatic spending cuts and tax hikes taking center stage. Dow is off more than 180 points.
Currency debasement is a great way to get stock prices to rise.
U.S. fears hit stocks, Nikkei jumps on yen slide
By Alex Richardson
SINGAPORE | Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:22am EST
(Reuters) - Asian stocks mostly fell on Thursday as investors reacted to the prospect of drawn-out negotiations over the looming U.S. “fiscal cliff” by shedding riskier assets, but Japanese equities defied the trend as a sharp slide in the yen lifted exporters’ shares.
European shares were seen falling for a second day, hit by U.S. concerns and the continent’s own intractable debt crisis, with data due later in the day expected to show the euro zone slid back into its second recession since 2009 in the third quarter.
The retreat from risk also weighed on commodities, although oil held its gains after jumping in the previous session due to rising tensions in the Middle East after Israel launched an offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza.
“Markets are reflecting worse case scenarios today with investors fleeing in droves,” said Ben Taylor, a trader at CMC Markets in Australia, where the main share index fell to a two-month low.
“Tensions escalating in the Middle East added to the panic selling.”
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