Bits Bucket for November 16, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
Links
-
January 2025 M T W T F S S « Sep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Photo Submission: hbbphotos@gmail.com
View the HBB Photo Gallery *updated 4/13/2008
Police in northern Greece have clashed with anti-austerity demonstrators protesting against German Deputy Labor Minister Hans Joachim Fuchtel.
On Wednesday, Fuchtel made comments on the quality of the Greek labor force.
“Studies show that 3,000 employees are required in Greece for local administration work carried out by 1,000 people in Germany,” the German deputy labor minister stated.
Clashes erupted in the city of Thessaloniki on Thursday after municipal workers and labor rights protesters tried to kick and punch German Consul to Thessaloniki Wolfgang Hoelscher-Obermaier on his way to a conference.
The protesters in Thessaloniki also heckled Hoelscher-Obermaier by booming out music of a Nazi military marching song and chanting anti-Nazi slogans.
The police on the scene said around 300 people had gathered around the German delegation and were bombarding them with eggs.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/16/272535/greeks-protesters-attack-german-consul/
Everything old is new again.
Which is a perfect example of the reason I look at all of Rio’s and fellow clowns as mostly ridiculous.
Greeks are not Germans. Swedes are not Indonesians. Ugandans are not Americans (though all would like to move here and make that claim).
Every society differs by RACE, Religion, and Culture.
To the Leftists on this site, comparing social standards in Germany, Sweden or Finland with other places around the world to say, “SEE, it’s all about the kind of government”, with other very different places with entirely different population make-ups is a reasonable comparison.
No. It isn’t. It’s all about the People.
Replacing White People with black and brown people is assumed by you to produce the Same result.
You are Wrong, as usual.
The Germans have always been inclined to efficiency of effort. The Greeks are inclined to a more laid-back lifestyle. I have no problem with that. The problem we are seeing here is the Greeks want a German standard of living with a production output more suited to Greece. The Lack of productive effort should therefore by subsidized by Government.
That is the basic viewpoint of Leftists. Very simple.
Everyone is the “same”. If some have more than others it’s because of the “System” and we need to “redistribute” the goods. It’s NEVER because there could possibly be a difference of Race, culture or religion. All are the Same. Yea, Helmut is the Same as Hellenic Sam.
I think your point is that Sweden is a homogenous nation about half the size of the SF Bay Area. But there is much more too it.
90% Rio ignores completely that the Swedish socialist state completely collapsed in 1992 after which they implemented “neoliberal” (what we consider Republicanism in the U.S.) free market reforms. Only then did things turn around. But they still have much lower GDP / person than the US and reported unemployment is higher than in the U.S. and *real* unemployment is around 20% because they have black box jobs in empty rooms to those that fall off the unemployment rolls and count them as “employed.”
Sweden today is not the socialist state is was in the 1980’s that ended in a hyper-inflationary collapse.
Sweden - one of the first countries to privatize education by introducing vouchers in 1992 (after The Netherlands). Since then scholastic performance has sky-rocked and graduation rates in engineering has boomed along with high tech exports. It sounds like we need to move to a voucher system here in the U.S.
Sweden - which after plunging into economic chaos following a complete crash in the public socialist system in the early 1990’s privatized pensions and now was the largest *private* pension system among OECD nations.
Sweden - that has delegated almost all social programs and medical care to the constituent twenty-one counties and decentralized control away from the federal government. This was historically based on the state run Lutheran church model with mandatory local participation. In Sweden those giving money for social support personally know those who receive it.
Sweden - Ardent supporter of free trade and no tariffs. They encourage low cost imports and competition with local firms so they only develop globally economically institutions. I guess they got the memo about globalization 500 years ago and decided not to fight free trade.
Sweden - since the crisis in 1992 implemented sweeping reforms to reduce the welfare state, cut public spending and privatize government functions
Sweden - The official unemployment rate is 8.8% (24% for youth) also unfortunately by some measures according to some experts has a real unemployment rate of 20%. They give black box “jobs” (Job and development guarantee) to the unemployable. Can’t find a job - you can answer a government phone that never rings. That keeps the unemployment rate low. Sort of like NYC and NJ where they can never fire union school teachers so they just have them report to a holding tank indefinitely to play cards and collect a check every two weeks.
Sweden - has privatized state owned firms and has been on a rampage to privatize government services.
Want the same type of reforms in the U.S. that Sweden has been passing? “Cause they are moving away from socialism to a free market economy.
And don’t get me started on Norway - they have so much oil revenue that the entire population can sit on their backsides and collect welfare checks. Would be nice… but that’s not exactly a model that can be replicated.
Sweden - The official unemployment rate is 8.8% (24% for youth) also unfortunately by some measures according to some experts has a real unemployment rate of 20%.
As usual SF Bay Area, your “logic” is twisted and biased. You write a boring “book” above on how Sweden is a “free-market” utopia and then explain how bad their unemployment is.
Why don’t you just shoot yourself in the foot every morning and get it over with.
(And dude, your writing style is overly long and boring. You’re losing your audience. Try to liven it up and cut out some of the words.)
“It takes few words to tell a lie and many to refute it.”
- Dr. Noam Chomsky, Professor Department of Linguistics & Philosophy at MIT
Again - I expect to only suffer hyperbole and personal attacks from 90% Rio because he has nothing intelligent to offer. At least ahansen can toe the socialist line with logic and data.
Again - I expect to only suffer hyperbole and personal attacks from 90% Rio because he has nothing intelligent to offer.
I’m scary huh SF? Glad to see you’ve almost recovered from your online breakdown I caused you awhile back. It was classic “losing it” in real time.
Your paranoid “Socialists Under Every Bed” Shtick was missed but your warped and twisted propaganda “logic” was not.
“It takes few words to tell a lie and many to refute it.”
- Dr. Noam Chomsky, Professor Department of Linguistics & Philosophy at MIT
——————————
Its been my experience that people always use more words when they are trying to avoid the truth.
For example, if a woman asks her husband: “are you cheating on me?”
And the husband starts off: “well, ya know its kinda funny. I was born a poor black child in Tupalo mississipi… bla bla bla…”
Lawyers are masters at throwing buckets of words at you and trying to distract you by getting you to sift through this huge volume of information.
When the tactic works, you can’t even remember the question you asked.
When it doesn’t, Scalia takes off his robe and shoe beats you.
You a funny man spook!
LOL
I didn’t mean my comments to be a dissection of various people and governments, though your comments are well taken.
My primary point, which you seem to support at the end is that EVERY country has huge differences in it’s cultural, economic, racial, religious and work-ethic constructs. You can’t simply point to a “success” in Country A and say, well see if we had their tax policy, their laws, and their government, then, WE would be just like them.
The Middle East is RICH beyond all measures of avarice, not because of Sharia Law and Muslim practice, but because they have been sitting on a sea of oil. Helmut and Gretchen have been forced to build lots of Mercedes and BMW’s to trade for the Oil.
Saudi Citizens do little work because they are the “welfare-state” recipients of OIL Money.
Comparing their “healthcare system” with the US would also be ridiculous, but I’ve seen constant comparisons of BRazil with Germany, SWeden, CAnada, U.S. and countless commentaries on why “their system” is better.
The comparisons border on ridiculous, which is why I usually ignore them.
Cuba has better “healthcare” than America (here. Here’s a news story that says so. See.)
Cuba has good health care - that isn’t true of most international socialist regimes though. China as the worst of any major country for example - because they killed off all their doctors during the cultural revolution (nice). However, before we hear a “Hurray!” for Cuba’s medical system and it’s low infant mortality rate… Dr. Yuri N. Maltsev Professor of Economics at Carthage College in Wisconsin (a former economist who worked under Mikhail Gorbachev) points out that Cuba doesn’t register live births until a child is six months old. They do this because most infant mortality occurs in the first six months. So they can claim lower infant mortality but it’s just hyperbole. Still I’ll give them credit for running a good health care system in general given their means.
As far as comparing systems in various countries - I’m inclined to think it offers the best empirical data that we have on economics. It has value. How else do we gather the data? We can’t split the U.S. in two and have international socialism on half and capitalism in the other half as an experiment and see what happens. Nations form natural experiments and we need to collect the data badly. But I think 133 national failures and four successes and 160 million murdered is proof enough of the international socialism is an utter tragedy. And that only if you consider place like North Korea a “success.” Still I do get your point - we have to back out other factors the best we can.
As far as race - one of my degrees from Berkeley was in molecular biology with emphasis in genetics and biochemistry. I’ve studied the subject under some of the world’s experts on the subject. All I can say is that every human race has at least the capacity to run a successful and prosperous country. I would argue instead that history plays a an important role. If your country was destroyed by war, famine, slavery and totalitarianism and lacks any sense of national identity then you’ve got a much longer road to pull yourself up to the mean.
spot on post Dio..
what we call ‘racism’ is actually just a survival mechanism that all species have. it served us well when we lived as savages. all species fear that which is different. the more similar something is, the less likely it will eat you or just kill you.
but it’s counterproductive now. now we need reason to eliminate it. racism serves no purpose in a civilized society. it would probably take no more than a generation to eliminate the hard-wiring to fear other races.
TJ if what you say is true and it is hard wired i.e. in our genes (and I won’t take either side) then the only way to eliminate the hard-wiring would be genetic engineering or a eugenics program. Do you know something that’s going to happen that the rest of us don’t? Maybe you didn’t mean to eliminate the hard-wiring - just upgrade the software (culture).
then the only way to eliminate the hard-wiring would be genetic engineering or a eugenics program.
the hard-wiring can change. as i understand it, it can even change a little while we’re alive. we’re more malleable than we thought many years ago. everything that has been built off our reptilian brain can be changed over time.
Maybe you didn’t mean to eliminate the hard-wiring - just upgrade the software
yes, i think this is a better way to put it. but the point is that i don’t think it would take a long time..
I agree. When you think about how screwed up the world was just two or three hundred years ago I’m shocked to see how far we’ve come. Some estimates say two thirds of the world population in was in slavery - but hard to tell in areas that didn’t have written history. We know the majority were in slavery or serfdom. Then over half of the worlds population was wiped out economically by international socialism (what we call in the U.S. communism) or national socialism (what we call in the U.S. fascism). A world filled with Gulags, death camps and killing fields where people were sent to die, 160 million of them. And what about the seasoning camps? Slaves from Africa were sent to seasoning camps mostly in the indies to be tortured and broken mentally. One third died in the seasoning camps and the torture process lasted five years on average with molten hot tar poured on their wounds. Their cultural identity completely erased from their neural networks as completely as possible. (Fortunately for U.S. bound slaves they bypassed the seasoning camps and retained some culture). The vast fortunes lost to war… A pile of ruble that was the cultural history and treasure of Berlin was piled into a giant mound that tower’s over the modern day Berlin to this day. We’re talking about a whole fire bombed city pushed into one giant man made mountain of ruble. After all that… that in November 2012 we can sit around and argue weather GDP per person of $50K or so is good enough - well I really marvel at it.
yes, socialism/communism has caused more human misery than the black plague. it’s seductive because it promises wonderful things. but it always brings misery instead. america is going to pay a huge price for this so-called ‘election’.
speaking of serfs.. it would be nice if we could be elevated to the status of serfs. they only had 25% of their income taken from them. nearly half of us are now paying more than that.
According to Marxism socialism/communism could be implemented only economically and culturally highly develop countries but unfortunately Mr. Vladimir Lenin used some of socialist ideas in Tzars Russia, which was agrarian poor country.Using workers dictatorship he hoped by eliminating the aristocracy and the upper class it was possible to build a socialism. It was meant to fail from the beginning.Socialism first has to born in peoples minds, people whose basic needs are met, people who are highly intelligent.Most important part is societies cultural values. In low develop countries peoples value system depends on their basic needs, like some philosopher was saying “people live strongly dependent on their basic needs”. In the case of Scandinavia , people there are intelligent and humble. Several decades of hard work created economically high level of societies were material values are dependent on to opportunities of living in homogenous self fulfilling society.
Most of followers of Lenin, who used workers dictatorships will of course failed or destine to fail, but socialist ideas has nothing to do with Lenin or otter opportunists… . We can see these ideas in U.S. today… Bill Gates and people lie him came to idea to change the world by using their financial means and I think if technological advance in our country moves ahead and wealth will be distributed more humanly socialism will be the future, because the value of life is not to sit into the Mercedes so your neighbors get jealous …
According to Marxism socialism/communism could be implemented only economically and culturally highly develop countries
yes, parasites like a strong host to feed from. socialism/communism will always kill the host.
unfortunately Mr. Vladimir Lenin used some of socialist ideas in Tzars Russia, which was agrarian poor country.
yes, the idiot should have let the host get stronger before he began to feed off it. i guess he was impatient to get his nightmare up and running.
Using workers dictatorship he hoped by eliminating the aristocracy and the upper class it was possible to build a socialism.
yes, that’s how the socialists/communists justify killing millions of innocent people. people that could have been productive and made everyone’s lives better if they’d have been allowed to thrive in free market capitalism. the ‘rich’ are already under attack in this country, so you’ll get your wish. the problem is that as the ‘rich’ are killed off, you yourself, will become one of the richest, so eventually you’ll be next. you and lenin’s horrific vision will probably become reality.
Socialism first has to born in peoples minds, people whose basic needs are met, people who are highly intelligent.
pseudo intelligence, guided by immorality and desire for what other people have earned with their ingenuity and work. what could possibly go wrong?
In the case of Scandinavia , people there are intelligent and humble.
people that implement socialism arrogantly believe they know what’s right for everyone else. they are far from humble. i admit however, that there are intelligent socialists. it’s just that they know nothing about real economics, only the disastrous fairy tale of keynesianism.
“pseudo intelligence, guided by immorality and desire for what other people have earned with their ingenuity and work”
Dear tj, nobody will have desire to take away what you earned with your “ingenuity and work”, but your intelligence that the cause of your “ingenuity” will tell you that you don’t need to have twenty bedroom house, or ten BMWs , but small house and the Toyota Camry will be enough. Life’s goal is not to show your “high status” and your wealth, or eat like a pig, but to share as much you could… read books.
Parasites are those who manipulate financial markets, but really working people are always ready to share.
Yes with your type of mentality I can see that socialism is really to far a dream for this country…
Dear tj, nobody will have desire to take away what you earned with your “ingenuity and work”, but your intelligence that the cause of your “ingenuity” will tell you that you don’t need to have twenty bedroom house, or ten BMWs , but small house and the Toyota Camry will be enough
what if someone thinks i should only have a tent and a motorcycle? after all, many people have less than a tent and motorcycle. why shouldn’t i spend my money as i see fit? what will happen to the people that make bmws if i don’t buy them? what about all those carpenters that will be out of work if i don’t build a twenty bedroom house?
Life’s goal is not to show your “high status” and your wealth, or eat like a pig, but to share as much you could… read books.
really? you know what life’s goal is?? and what if the goal isn’t to ’show off’ but just have nice things. things one may have wanted but not have been able to afford until now? or maybe you shouldn’t buy that walkman you like. maybe you shouldn’t show your status like that. read books?? what books should i read? the communist manifesto? mein kampf? marx? for a supposedly humble guy, you sound arrogant as hell. you really have no idea how you come off, do you? you think you’re a really nice guy, don’t you? my gawd, you’re unbelievable!
Parasites are those who manipulate financial markets, but really working people are always ready to share.
people share when they feel like sharing. do you understand that? you can’t make anyone share anything. if you make them, ’share’ it’s called extortion!
manipulate markets? care to explain how that’s done? on second thought don’t bother. i’ve heard just about every way people think it’s done, but it’s all bogus.
Yes with your type of mentality I can see that socialism is really to far a dream for this country…
not at all! your types are busy turning this country into your own type of hell hole right now! your nightmare vision is coming straight at us. can’t you feel it in the air? arm yourself, because civil war is probably coming.
” why shouldn’t i spend my money as i see fit”
Nobody will take your money against your will, I was hoping that somehow your intelligence will reach to the point that it will control your greed…
“not at all! your types are busy turning this country into your own type of hell hole right now”
Right now it is your type of people turn this country into hell with their greed…all those naive people who lost their houses last five years, people who lost their retirement money because of your cousin Medoff…
Tj I wish you as much things that you desire in your life…
Nobody will take your money against your will
they will take my money AND my life. it’s the communist way.
I was hoping that somehow your intelligence will reach to the point that it will control your greed…
you don’t even know what greed is. since when is wanting to keep what belongs you to ‘greed’?
Right now it is your type of people turn this country into hell with their greed…
like i said, you don’t know what greed is. i’d like to set up a bank account for you to send me some of your money. if you don’t, you’re a greedy hypocrite.
all those naive people who lost their houses last five years,
you mean all those nice non-greedy people that lied on their loan apps and wanted to make money by selling at a higher price to the next sucker? those non-greedy people. you’re a hypocrite.
all those naive people who lost their houses last five years,
naive people like realtors that cheered greenspan lowering interest rates so they could afford to buy and sell higher priced homes. naive people that bought a house to sell it higher to the next sucker. those kinds of people? or do you mean the ones that lost their jobs in an economy dying from socialist policies? the ones that your ilk promulgate?
Tj I wish you as much things that you desire in your life…
liar. you said you didn’t want me owning a bmw or a twenty bedroom house. the only reason you’d wish me to have things is so you could take some of them.
people who lost their retirement money because of your cousin Medoff…
yeah, people that trusted that government agencies and regulations would protect them from doing their own due diligence. and bernie’s much more closely related to you than to me. he’s an immoral crook like you.
i shouldn’t have called you a crook, but i meant everything else.
it’s late and i’m done.
As has been pointing out to 90% Rio by everyone on this board over and over and over again accusing your opponent of “losing it” is a classic propaganda technique. It’s just another form of deflection when you know your argument has no basis in fact. You want to just keep up the personal attacks? Or do you have anything to offer?
Everyone is the “same”. If some have more than others it’s because of the “System” and we need to “redistribute” the goods. It’s NEVER because there could possibly be a difference of Race, culture or religion.
So says Dio, the self-admitted snarling racist. But your point is invalid. It’s actually so strange that I’m surprised you don’t see it. I think your right-wingnut and racist ideas are clouding your logic.
Think about this:
Sweden does not have less wealth and income inequality than the USA because they are all white and blond. Sweden has less wealth and income inequality BECAUSE of their system. Germany does not have Universal health-care because they are lederhosen wearing Aryans, but rather because of their system.
That the USA is not all white is absolutely no reason whatsoever that we don’t take better care of our people. The money is there dude. It’s all about wealth, not skin color, and the USA certainly has the wealth to take better care of Americans. The wealth is just concentrated in too few hands in America. That we have black and brown people in America has not much to do with our problems. Racial diversity is not America’s problem. Gross wealth and income inequality is America’s main problem. It doesn’t take a “leftist” to see the facts for what they are.
Well, actually, you are wrong as usual. Racial Diversity IS the problem, as was demonstrated by the last election.
Democrats get almost ALL the Black and Latino votes, and unfortunately, a good portion of single white women on wedge issues of ABortion and birth control and free child care.
AS Nancy Pelosi so boldly proclaimed, they now have a Congressional House party that is MAJORITY, minority.
The Republican House is far too white.
What it means is that the Party of FREE STUFF is composed of the “Minorities and Women”.
So, Diversity is a BIG problem. It has divided the Country.
It’s like bringing 10 million Greeks to Germany and saying “Here, everyone is equal.” Get in line for your food, your housing, your clothing, your education and your healthcare, because, now that you are HERE, you are German, and you get to live like Germans.
Congratulations! The rest of the Real Germans will pay for it.
That’s the solution to the Euro problem.
They just need more “integration” and “diversity”. Then you won’t be able to tell a Greek from a German. They’ll all be the same.
Won’t that be grand. I know you dream of stuff like that. I was happy having Germans living in Germany and stopping in Greece for a Visit, and vice versa. But that won’t bring “equality”.
Racial Diversity IS the problem
Racial diversity is not the problem. Bigotry, intolerance, lack of education, and basic respect for others is the problem.
Whether you like it or not, diversity is here, on a global level. The world is flat, and unless we have a major apocalyptic event that separates us all, in a century or two humans will all be a shade of light brown.
Um… we have a lot of Greeks running restaurants in my town and they are some of the most successful small business people. I think it is pretty well accepted that the Greek Diaspora is one of the most successful groups worldwide. Correct me if I am wrong but I think you need a better example to make such a case.
SFBay, it seems kind of like you improved upon D’s point a bit. He is saying race, you are expanding on that and saying, not race… culture. The race is a hueristic for culture. Being of race X strongly implies a person is of culture X. Common sense dictates if you see a highly correlated variable, you expect correlation, but allow for exception.
When you are mentioning the highly successful greeks in your area, are you correlating the fact that they had the initiative to emigrate? Their more localized culture and personal initiative are differentiating them from the broader Greek culture. This doesn’t invalidate D’s observation, but refines it.
You’re basically saying, “you’re racist if you don’t consider that there are exceptions to the rule”. And that IS basically the definition of racism, to not consider exceptions to the general perception, and consider individuals. So hopefully D making general observations doesn’t qualify hi as racist as long as he is open to exceptions to the rule.
The big problem is when people choose to ignore the heuristic. They try to deny any kind of correlation. This isn’t lack of racism, it’s misplaced apologist stupidity. There is plenty to be apologized for, but apologizing and ignoring are two different things. Further, there is risk associated with ignoring heuristics. Example, if there is an 87% reduction in
the chance of cervical cancer with the HPV vaccine, it probably makes sense to get your child immunized, even if she’s not one of “those girls” that it could ever happen to.
The Greek diaspora (or any diaspora) being successful is a texbook example of selection bias. If the Greek person didn’t have the gumption to run a successful restaurant, then he would never had made it from Greece to San Francisco in the first place.
Even then, that gumption doesn’t guarantee success. The reason it looks like all Greeks who run restaurants are successful is becausethe failures disappear quickly. So now you have a double selection bias.
In Greece there is a firm hierarchy with seven levels. A women is lower than a man. But the lowest level is a man that works for another unrelated man. In their ethic self employment and family business is the traditional norm. So they naturally have a lot of experience running small family run businesses which makes then adapt well in new cities.
Once again - the problem is X and the solution is international socialism according to 90% Rio. No facts to back it up - no logic - just propaganda.
Both Sweden and the U.S. share a common historical basis that have contributed to their success:
1) That is that neither was destroyed by world war II. They were both left in tact. In fact Sweden had the longest history without war of any nation going back 200 years. So they had a long time to accumulate that wealth. No other nation compares.
2) Both made a killing selling goods and services to the destroyed nations after the wars. Sweden was incredibly rich after World War II because they supplied the troops during the war and supplied the reconstruction after the war. Sweden then lost all their wealth during their socialist experiment which ended in hyperinflation in 1992. They’ve since reformed.
How we can for the poor is by providing an economic system were people can thrive with property rights, a solid currency and high productivity. Let’s look at the facts:
Per capita GDP
$100,000+
- 1 Liechtenstein - $141,100
- 2 Qatar - $104,300
$75,000-$100,000
- 3 Luxembourg - $ 81,100 $50,000-$75,000
- 4 Bermuda - $69,900
- 5 Singapore - $60,500
- 6 Jersey - $57,000
- 7 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) - $55,400
- 8 Norway - $54,200
- 9 Brunei - $50,000
$40,000-$50,000
- 10 Hong Kong - $49,800
- 11 United States - $49,000
- 12 United Arab Emirates - $48,800
- 13 Guernsey - $44,600
- 14 Switzerland - $43,900
- 15 Cayman Islands - $43,800
- 16 Gibraltar - $43,000
- 17 Netherlands - $42,700
- 18 Austria - $42,400
- 19 Kuwait - $42,200
- 20 Canada - $41,100
- 21 Sweden - $40,900
Wow - why is Sweden way down there behind the U.S.? 20% lower than here.
Why do they have much higher systemic unemployment?
U.S. Median Income is up 36% in the last 40 years in real terms.
Swedish employment has never even recovered to their pre-hyperinflationary state.
Swedish employment has never even recovered to their pre-hyperinflationary state.
You can’t write. I can’t tell you how boring you are. It’s just jive after jive. I bet 90% of the people skip your posts SF.
More facts:
Human Development Index (HDI) - composite statistic of life expectancy, education, and income inequality indices
Norway 0.943 (Steady)
Australia 0.929 (Steady)
Netherlands 0.910 (Steady)
United States 0.910 (Steady)
New Zealand 0.908 (Steady)
Canada 0.908 (Steady)
Ireland 0.908 (Steady)
Liechtenstein 0.905 (Steady)
Germany 0.905 (Steady)
Sweden 0.904 (Steady)
Why is Sweden below the U.S. again?
Because you’re cherry picking the data?
From the same source:
Inequality adjusted HDI 2011
3. Sweden 0.851
23. United States 0.771
(Ranked below Ireland, Slovenia, Czech REpublic, France, Spain, Slovakia, and Italy among others.)
ahansen interesting - thank you. I didn’t know there was an Inequality adjusted HDI. You are the only astute socialist I’ve ever met.
Note that the ranking was reversed in 2010 - the U.S. IHDI dropped -19 in 2011 and the Swedish HDI increased +5 in 2011. The U.S. had a higher level than Sweeden in 2010. It looks like the great recession may be skewing things a bit in 2011. I wouldn’t doubt it. We have a freer market. That would imply more swings year to year but better growth. It is a trade off.
Still both counties rank in the top quartile of IHDI. It’s not like we’re looking at Equatorial Guinea or anything. Both countries are on the A list.
Reference:
This is a list of countries by inequality-adjusted human development index (IHDI), as published by the UNDP in its 2011 Human Development Report. According to the report, the IHDI is a “measure of the average level of human development of people in a society once inequality is taken into account. It captures the HDI of the average person in society, which is less than the aggregate HDI when there is inequality in the distribution of health, education and income. Under perfect equality, the HDI and IHDI are equal; the greater the difference between the two, the greater the inequality.” In that sense, “the IHDI is the actual level of human development (taking into account inequality), while the HDI can be viewed as an index of the potential human development that could be achieved if there is no inequality.”
Comment by sfhomowner
in a century or two humans will all be a shade of light brown.
——————
and the lightest “brown people” will conspire to dominate all resources and rule over the darker brown people, right?
Comment by Diogenes (Tampa, Fl)
2012-11-16 10:45:19
Well, actually, you are wrong as usual. Racial Diversity IS the problem, as was demonstrated by the last election.
——————-
Thats funny, it seemed to work out quite well back on the plantation.
is we thirsty?
Can ah gets you a mint julip massa D?
Dio,
Here’s Jon Stewart’s timely response to grumpy old white guys and the end of “our” America — “The best of times, the worst of times”:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/jon-stewart-slams-bill-oreilly-traditional-america_n_2143614.html
Ugandans are not Americans (though all would like to move here and make that claim).
Maybe they oughtta stay there:
(Reuters) - Uganda’s parliamentary speaker said she wanted to pass as a “Christmas gift” for Ugandans an anti-gay law, which rights groups have criticized for its draconian penalties against homosexuals.
The bill had initially proposed the death penalty for gays in the conservative east African country but still presents an array of jail terms for convicted homosexuals, including life imprisonment in certain circumstances.
It’s funny the Democratic Party used to chastise the Republicans because the Republican Party used to be the party of:
“Free Love”
Bastard Children
Drinking of Alcohol
Vices
Dancing and Playing Music on the Sunday
The republicans use to succeed by putting military multi-star generals up for president. Maybe it’s time the Republicans found another IKE to LIKE.
Maybe it’s time the Republicans found another IKE to LIKE.
what’s in a name?
The bill had initially proposed the death penalty for gays in the conservative east African country but still presents an array of jail terms for convicted homosexuals, including life imprisonment in certain circumstances.
———————
Damn!
Whenever Im ready to give up on black people forever, they gotta go and do something that demonstrates they have good sense after all.
(((shakin my head)))
Sppok, you are truly the howard stern of the site..
It’s not a pretty job, but somebody’s got to do it….
Its always interesting when black people balk at accepting some free sht from white people.
Think about it?
Black people associate white people with “goodies”; I know cause Im one of em.
No shame in my game, tell the truth and shame the devil…
So when we reject something that white people have embraced; that means something meaningful.
African culture dealing with white people is like that old gameshow “Lets Make a Deal”:
“you have $1000 dollars in cash, you can keep it, or exchange it for whats behind door #3
What are you gonna do?
White people are pushing for door number 3 telling you its a new car…, but their might be a goat behind it?
Greed is good, except when it isn’t.
Is the same interchangeable cog concept really just a leftist ideal?
Isn’t that the same as when workers making $15.00/hr are fired and replaced w/workers w/much less experience making minimum wage and customers aren’t supposed to notice any difference?
For instance,I tried to buy window treatments last week and at every single store what I mostly got was, “There’s what we’ve got. If it’s not there, we can’t help you.” Business is trying to imply they provide us w/the same service as decades ago when they hired the expert who had worked in that dept for 10 years and knew her stuff inside out. She would stay with you until you were happy w/all components and had no more questions.
Seems both sides have a problem w/distinguishing shades of gray.
Mom when I grow up I want to be a cog.
Just what every child dreams of…
Spain announced today it has moved into a second year of a job-killing recession, a day after millions joined anti-austerity strikes and vast protests. Spain’s gross domestic product shrank by 0.3 per cent in the quarter, National Statistics Institute data showed, meaning the eurozone’s third-largest economy has been shrinking for 15 months.
Over the year, economic output slumped 1.6 per cent, said the data, which confirmed earlier estimates of a persistent slump in Spain, crippled by a 2008 property market crash. Spain’s UGT union seized on the news to batter the government’s budget-cutting policies, which sparked a general strike and vast protests in Spain as part of a Europe-wide day of action yesterday.
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world-news/spain-confirms-recessionday-after-strike-protests_783131.html
The Dutch economy shrank 1.1 percent in the third quarter after timid growth in the first half of 2012, the Central Statistic Bureau (CBS) said on Thursday.
Year-on-year the economy contracted by 1.6 percent, the CBS said in a statement.
“Household consumption and investment declined while exports were up slightly, although less than in previous quarters,” it said.
http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/dutch-news/dutch-economy-contracts-official-11-in-third-quarter_250340.html
Hope our old Dutch poster is OK. Would love to have his take on the Dutch economy.
You know what really concerns me? International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns. Those sneaky buggers are everywhere; in our circuses, at our sporting events, infiltrating our media, staffing “children’s parties” at our hospitals and military installations, and yes, even some of the highest offices of our government! Did you know that clowns have annoyed over 160 million people in 133 countries? (Or was it 133 million people in 160 countries?)
Doubt me? Clowns hide in plain sight in our major corporations and conglomerates, (Krusty and Ronald McDonald, I’m looking at you.) In Europe, the International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns disguise themselves as “mimes” and hang out on street corners coercing money out of the young and unwary. Worse, mimes have silently infiltrated our college campuses disguised as white people.
I could go on all day. Parades full of giant puppets,(running dogs of the ITIC lackeys), clowns hiding in barrels at rodeos, they even have their own Clown College cleverly hidden in Sarasota near our border with Cuba, just waiting for the signal to invade our homeland and enslave our wimmins and make them wear their icky clown makeup.
Scoff if you will, but on April Fools Day, 1975, the International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns lept out of clown cars at a national stadium to the tune of “Everybody Was Kung-Fu Fighting” and approximately 1/3 of the audience gagged to death or fled into exile.
Don’t let those International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns sway you into their bunkers or indoctrinate you into their death cult. Clowns might appear silly and innocuous, but don’t be fooled! The International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns are deadly serious. It’s happening right under our noses! Why, it could even happen… HERE.
You have been warned.
“International Totalitarian Incrementalist Clowns”
Progressives?!
Jokers to the right, here I am…
Now you’ve done it ahansen. Everything was cool ’tilstuff you had to spill the beans. People will start looking around and see the clowns everywhere…why there’s one in D.C. made up in black face…..and look, another in N.J. being pumped up to float in Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade! You should have left well enough alone!
There will be no clowns allowed in my bunker.
No ahansen will not be given a place in the bunker sadly.
However, yesterday I posted a link to a paper by Richard Burkhauser of Cornell University that showed that U.S. Median Income is up 36% in the last 40 years in real terms (adjusted for inflation) that shot down the stagnent wage hypothesis by Pickety & Saez (trumpeted every day on this board).
ahansen posted a response to which I replied “Oh and A+ to ahansen. The rest are going to have to stay after school.”
ahansen was the only one able to offer a serious analysis on the piece. I give credit where credit is due.
You can fight either side of any argument with facts and reason (which she did) and I’ll respect what you have to say or you can engage in hyperbole and propaganda and I won’t.
The rest are going to have to stay after school At the Koch Brothers Ministry of Propaganda
Once again 90% Rio - you have nothing intelligent to add. You didn’t even bother to read the paper. You could learn a thing or two from ahansen. At least she defends socialism with critical thought, data and a bit of humor to boot. You just use bullying personal attacks, deflection and propaganda.
You just use bullying personal attacks, deflection and propaganda.
You write so much, I think you think people care. Hint: Get over yourself and shorten your BS. I don’t even read half of your crap. It’s like you think you are smart or something.
that shot down the stagnent wage hypothesis
Yeah right. I’m supposed to be one of those people with skills that are in demand and short supply. Yet I and thousands of my coworkers didn’t get pay increases this year.
Yet I and thousands of my coworkers didn’t get pay increases this year.
If you had been willing to relocate, you would have seen a significant increase. Of course, much of that increase would go towards increased cost-of-living in the in-demand areas of hi-tech.
No dice, the cost of living increase would outpace any wage gain, handily. Heck, the property taxes alone would do it.
And it’s not just a flyover thing. I know people in SoCal who tell me it’s the same story there.
And yes, there is a shortage of skilled people in the Centennial state, but it seems to have no effect on wages.
That is 36% in the last 40 years in real terms or about a little less than 1% per year. That doesn’t mean that each year everyone got a 1% pay raise. Wages went down in the early 1980’s for a bit and then accelerated at over a 1% rate. Then they stagnated in the early 1990’s and then boomed up only to stagnate after the dot.com bubble. Then they went up again. To expect to get a pay raise in the middle of a recovery from a recession with unemployment at this level is not going to happen for the population at large. Especially a recession caused by a financial bubble which takes a long time to recovery from. I’m just glad we don’t have hyper-inflation to boot.
That is 36% in the last 40 years in real terms
Give it up. In real terms, middle-class is doing much worse than 40 years ago. You are propaganda. And you can’t write. And you are boring.
So lame.. 10 years ago that statistic said 40% or more.. Since 2000 we have had real wage declines. Yes we are better off than 1960… but worse off than 1990. At least acknowledge it… You have a point though, things are still better economically than the 60’s. Does that mean Obama is better than JFK?
And in the 60’s that household income was largely earned by only one person, which left the other person to do all sorts of other things (take care of children, cook, etc.) that meant the baseline of expenses was lower.
SF B A,
According to the Chronicle Online (Cornell), the growth in median income was due to decreased taxes. Pre-tax income was stagnant. Pre-tax was 3.7% gain, post tax was 37%.
“”When we broaden our measure to include government taxes and transfers and look at households adjusted for size, the gains of middle-class Americans are 10 times larger than previously thought,” Burkhauser says. “The gains are even more when we include the value of in-kind income such as employer- and government-provided health insurance.”"
The other question that comes to mind, how much of that gain was in the last 5-10 years?
Al, thanks for the question.
The gain according to the original Pickety & Saez analysis was 3.7% (real inflation adjusted) over that period. In other words pretty close to stagnant. That was flawed.
What Burkhauser et al. (Cornell) found was that actual wage gains were 15.2% (real inflation adjusted) over that period. The difference was due to an error in the methodology of Pickety & Saez in mapping IRS data to Census households data. That 15.2% only corrects for this first first error in the analysis. The 15.2% does *not* include factors such as tax rates or transfer payments. So 15.2% is “pre-tax” and “pre-transfer payment.”
Burkhauser et al. then found that if you look at the census bureau and IRS data and examine transfer payments the increase is 23.6%. So this is the actual increase due to actual gains in income plus transfer payments but still pre-tax.
If you then factor in taxes you get a total gain of 29.3%. That’s including transfers, tax changes and actual wage changes.
Finally if you factor in changes in non-wage compensation you get to a total change of 37%.
So Burkhauser et al. ends up with a value of 37% instead of 3.7% erroneously derived by the Pickety & Saez analysis - a ten fold increase.
I highly recommend you listen to the podcast if you don’t have time to read the paper:
“Richard Burkhauser of Cornell University talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts” on Econtalk.org
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/04/burkhauser_on_t.html
You can also find it on the itunes store by searching for “Econtalk Burkhauser” - posted on 4/9/2012.
I recommend subscribing to Russ Roberts’ EconTalk on itunes. It’s free and he has some of the best academics in their field on his show. He is very careful not to inject his bias and uses a dialectic method. Russ Roberts is of George Mason University and Stanford University’s Hover Institute.
I listen to his podcasts when I’m out trail running. Good way to keep the mind going while you work out.
Oh and I didn’t mean to dodge the bullet Al on your last 5-10 years question. I just know off hand without looking that up. I’m sure that since the great recession we’re going to see sub-par results. Credit collapses are nasty protracted affairs.
“Median Income is up 36% in the last 40 years in real terms…”
Not in my world, and I’ve had my eye on this income thingy for all those years. Engineers made about $20K when gas was $1. Now they make about $80K with gas at $4. Flat.
Heck, I was making 50K when gas was $1. I sure ain’t making 200K now. And now I have to pinch pennies a LOT tighter than back then.
“Median Income is up 36% in the last 40 years in real terms…”
Not in my world,
SF Bay Area does not live in the real world. He is FOS.
Thank you for this important public service announcement.
Check out the Global DOW tonight.
In a word, the market is quite plungy.
Plunging without protection can lead to unintended consequences.
Plunging without protection can lead to unintended consequences……..
This post sounds as though it’s more fit for a sex-ed class than a discussion on economics, but I guess I see what you mean.
D.
You gotta go “all in” if you want to get ahead.
Well, that just drips of double-entendre, too.
Lighten up, it’s Friday!
So much for yesterday’s claim that the global economy is kicking butt and everyone is better off now.
It’s a little surprising the U.S. stock market doesn’t fall faster, given the massive investor stock dump underway.
Demand for U.S. stock and bond funds falters: Lipper
By Sam Forgione
NEW YORK | Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:59pm EST
(Reuters) - U.S.-based stock and bond funds saw a dramatic pullback in the latest week as worries over the “fiscal cliff,” a combination of tax hikes and spending cuts in the U.S., eroded sentiment, data from Thomson Reuters’ Lipper service showed on Thursday.
Stock mutual funds and exchange-traded funds combined had outflows of $3.25 billion in the week ended November 14, a major pullback from inflows of $4.92 billion the previous week.
Bond funds showed similar weakness as both mutual funds and exchange-traded funds combined had just $287.3 million in inflows after huge inflows of $6.14 billion the prior week.
The S&P 500 fell 2.8 percent over the reporting period as worries surrounding the “fiscal cliff” of automatic tax increases and spending cuts set to occur at the start of next year weighed on investor confidence.
The anticipation of higher taxes on capital gains and dividends also led investors to sell stocks.
With regard to stock funds, investors took $1.6 billion out of stock mutual funds and $1.66 billion out of exchange-traded funds. Funds that hold U.S. stocks had outflows of $4.8 billion, while funds that hold foreign stocks were a bright spot with inflows of $1.54 billion.
ETFs are generally believed to represent the investment behavior of institutional investors, while mutual funds are thought to represent the retail investor.
The outflows from stock exchange-traded funds follow inflows of $4 billion the previous week, which was the most in seven weeks. Investors took $3.04 billion out of the SPDR S&P 500 ETF fund, which tracks the benchmark S&P 500 stock index.
Bond exchange-traded funds had outflows of $789 million, reversing inflows of $1.7 billion the previous week and the most taken out of the funds since early September. Bond mutual funds offset some of the weakness, with inflows of $1.08 billion.
Investors continued to favor investment-grade corporate bonds and committed a net $1.16 billion to the funds that hold them after record high inflows of $2.74 billion the previous week.
Riskier high-yield bond funds, meanwhile, had net outflows of $1.31 billion, the most pulled out of the funds since early June.
As investors abandoned risky securities, safe-haven bonds saw modest demand. U.S. Treasury funds had inflows of $373.7 million while funds that hold government-guaranteed mortgage bonds had inflows of $232.3 million.
The weekly Lipper fund flow data is compiled from reports issued by U.S.-domiciled mutual funds and exchange-traded funds.
…
I think the retail investor has been dumping stock for 3 years now. They never got back into the ponzi scheme. Hedge funds, HFT’s and primary dealers have been keeping the FED happy ramping this casino. They to are getting nervous.
1. Boomers dumping stock into cash to retire on.
2. Middle class dipping into savings for living expenses. The price of “needs” will rise to what the market will bear, and if that means exiting the Market to bear it, that’s what will happen.
Dumping stock because of “nerves” is a luxury.
3. Boomers dumping 35 MILLION empty houses on the way to the graveyard. (that process has already begun)
I suspect that a lot of those houses will be passed down to offspring.
Or grandchildren who can’t get jobs and take care of granny in exchange for basic care activities. Assuming that granny doesn’t have to go into a nursing home (Medicaid lien) and didn’t take out a reverse mortgage.
Where are they all living now? The streets of Calcutta?
It’s a little surprising the U.S. stock market doesn’t fall faster, given the massive investor stock dump underway.
What has received little play in the media regarding the recent selling pressure on stocks is the fact that long term capital gains is scheduled to increase in Jan 2013 as part of ObamaCare. Additionally, there is concern that the Bush Tax Cuts won’t be extended, thus increasing long term capital gains even more. Why is this related to recent selling? Investors are locking in the lower tax rate on gains now as opposed to waiting to sell in 2013 and paying higher taxes on the transaction.
Also recently heard (on NPR, no less) was that George Lucas’s decision to sell his studio to Disney was forced by the coming increase in capital gains tax. He decided it was time to make the move before taxes increased in 2013…
“…long term capital gains is scheduled to increase in Jan 2013 as part of ObamaCare. Additionally, there is concern that the Bush Tax Cuts won’t be extended, thus increasing long term capital gains even more…”
How is it the MSM is ignoring these issues if I am aware of them? I get my information from the MSM…
Here is a story about something which would never happen in the U.S.
China may be hiding bad loans, just as Japan did
November 16, 2012, 2:59 AM
More signs of China’s mounting bad-loan problem appeared Friday, as official data showed the non-performing loan ratio edged up fractionally in the third quarter, even as the figure drew skepticism from analysts as vastly understating the scale of China’s emerging lending crisis.
Loans classed non-performing increased by 22.4 billion yuan ($3.6 billion) in the July-September quarter, lifting the total pool of bad loans among China’s biggest banks to 478.8 billion yuan, according to figures released Friday by the China Banking Regulatory Commission.
About 0.95% of loans issued by the major banks were now classified as non-performing, barely higher than 0.94% in the prior quarter, the regulator said.
…
I don’t understand the significance of this story.
The Chinese are following the Bernanke playbook.
If banks have bad real estate loans, then the “central bank” prints money (yuan instead of dollars), takes the bad papers into its possession, and exchanges the bad loan papers for Cash.
That’s how it’s done here.
Why should they be in need of a different accounting standard for fraudulent banking practices?? HUMMM???
We need to KILL the FED. Break up the BIG BANKS, and restore sanity to “lending”.
NO more free money printing for Banksters.
It’s killing the rest of us.
Personally, I would see Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon and the rest of the “leaders” imprisoned. The should already have been indicted, but with Eric Holder in Charge, there’s just too much room for favors.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/16/welcome-to-the-lousiest-recovery-of-all-time/
Money quote from the story:
So who’s really benefited from the so called recovery?
Well, that’s a no brainer: Wall Street and the 1 percenters, that’s who. Fed chairman Ben Bernanke has pumped enough uber-cheap money into financial markets to fill a small ocean, all with the clear intention of keeping stocks bubbly so his fatcat speculator friends can cream the system and take home even bigger bonus checks. The Fed’s quantitative easing program has sent stocks into the stratosphere, in fact, all three major US indices have more than doubled since the program was first launched in 2008. There’s only one drawback; it doesn’t do jack for the real economy. Oh, and another thing, its effect on stocks is only temporary, the equivalent of a sugar rush.
Which is another interesting take: Why haven’t there been calls to indict Ben Bernanke on charges of treason for acting as a co-conspirator with the Banksters and robbing the American Citizens and Taxpayers of Trillions of Dollars?
Scheming to Defraud is a Crime. The actions of the FED amount to criminal conspiracy to pirate money from average Americans to enrich the Banksters and their friends.
I realize that this is the Purpose of the FED since its creation, but the “over-the-top” money printing has gone from merely pilfering to outright robbery.
KILL the FED and arrest its agents for Crimes against America.
Because the people who would make those “calls” know what the word treason means.
Link doesn’t work.
Never mind.
For how much longer is cash king? And what will eventually end the rein? (I’m guessing inflation coupled with normalization of interest rates, but it seems like that may take a long time to happen…)
Nov. 16, 2012, 2:06 a.m. EST
Oil inches lower as dollar rises
By Kristene Quan, MarketWatch
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — Crude-oil futures traded a touch lower during electronic trading Friday, helped by mild gains for the dollar.
Benchmark U.S. crude oil for December delivery shed 5 cents, or less than 0.1%, to $85.42 a barrel on Globex during late Asia trading hours.
The slight decline extended an 87-cent drop for the contract to settle at $85.45 a barrel Thursday on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
The ICE dollar index, which measures the greenback against a basket of six other currencies, edged higher to 81.060, up from 81.039 in late North American trade Thursday, offering a slight headwind for dollar-denominated crude.
GFT technical analyst Fawad Razaqzada said crude-oil prices reflected disappointing global macroeconomic data — including U.S. jobless claims and a contraction in the euro-zone economy — offset by below-forecast oil stocks in the U.S.
“Crude-oil inventories showed a build of 1.1 million barrels last week, but this was lower than expected, leading to a slight bounce in [Nymex crude futures] prices,” said Razaqzada.
…
“Cash is king”
A lot of cash is king.
“For how much longer is cash king?”
Until it is no longer hard to get and hard to keep, which means for a long time from now.
A clue: Many promises of future cash outlays are going to be broken (think unfunded/underfunded pensions).
Another clue: Low returns on capital are to be with us for a long time. Those who depend on high returns on capital are not going to be big spenders - what money they have they are going to try to keep. Keeping money instead of spending money is not a good thing in a consumer based economy.
Low velocity of money creates a scarcity of the stuff, and scarcity strengthens demand.
A fully funded pension plan means never having to say you’re sorry.
To hell with you if you can’t take a joke.
Sufficient currency debasement means never having to say you’re sorry, since all pension obligations can be met.
“Low velocity of money creates a scarcity of the stuff, and scarcity strengthens demand.”
Does scarcity ALWAYS strengthen demand?
When if ever does scarcity produce demand destruction?
A clue to the strength of demand can be found by looking at the price. Price acts as sort of a barometer.
Think of what happens with dope, for example.
Bring those stoner tourist dollars here to Colorado for the finest dope in USA.
“When if ever does scarcity produce demand destruction.”
One instance I can think of: If there is a scarcity of something vital for life, such as food, then a scarcity of food will cause mass starvation which will eventually translate to less demand for food.
But in the meantime - in the midst of mass starvation - the price of food will go through the roof.
“When if ever does scarcity produce demand destruction.”
A scarcity of a commodity may cause it to be replaced by another commodity for general use. Like whale oil.
Comment by Combotechie
2012-11-16 07:14:00
But in the meantime - in the midst of mass starvation - the price of food will go through the roof.
—————–
Higher than the price of AK 47s?
Supply or demand by themselves do not necessarily elevate prices. An increase in the demand : supply ratio is what increases prices. If demand and supply increase or decrease equally, prices shouldn’t change much. Price changes if only one of the two changes, because that changes the ratio.
How supply and demand interact depends a great deal on whether the item is a need or a want.
For a want, such as Applebees, a decrease in supply will increase the demand : supply ratio, which increases price. But if prices at Applebees are high, nobody will go, because they don’t have to. Scarcity of a want will produce demand destruction very easily.
For a need, such as gasoline, demand is generally constant. Any change in supply will change the ratio and prices will change accordingly. If gas prices are high, demand won’t change, because we have to buy it. Scarcity of a need can produce demand destruction, but only with a strong driver and substantial lifestyle response. The price point for demand destruction of gasoline appears to be around $4/gallon.
“For a need, such as gasoline, demand is generally constant. Any change in supply will change the ratio and prices will change accordingly. If gas prices are high, demand won’t change, because we have to buy it.”
Well, I don’t know if this is relevent, but I got rid of my truck in August because I no longer had the income to “own it”
I was a twenty gallon a week guy but eventually ran out of things to use it for that produced money to buy the gallons. In addition, repairs ate up an increasing amount of money over time; And these are not optional or luxury repairs. I know how to drive on bald tires, leaking water pumps (add water daily)… but you can no longer get around emissions inspection. The days of having a cheap car are coming to an end
The inspection process (including dynomometer readout) goes directly (in real time) to the state police; if you fail it, you cant renew your plates.
no more $500 waivers or bribes to the mechanic…
It is the end of an era (at least until everything collapses and then the tarp will come off the General Lee)
And now everyone can see the advantages of pre-1973 cars/trucks.
-Emissions inspections don’t apply.
-Vehicle taxes are cheap. (like $12/year, in my case)
-Parts are cheap (water pump = $29)
- You can fix everything yourself, with a minimum of specialty tools…….and what you can’t fix is usually pretty cheap (Auto transmission overhaul at trusted shop = $6-700)
-Some of the new tech stuff (port fuel injection, 5-6 speed transmissions) can be retrofitted relatively easily)
If mid-90s C4 Corvettes weren’t such a bang-for-the buck bargain, I’m thinking that a early-mid 70s C3 Vette with an LT-1/LS-1, w/five-six speed transplant would make a perfect commuter car. Drive it for 5-6 years, and sell it for what you have in it.
If mid-90s C4 Corvettes weren’t such a bang-for-the buck bargain
I took a look on cars dot com and I see what you mean. 50K miles on the odometer for $11K
I got rid of my truck in August
Try to stay in character, spook.
“When if ever does scarcity produce demand destruction?”
When it stimulates the development of a close substitute.
There is NO substitute for Applebee’s.
What did happen to Smithers? Finally realize the political bang for his buck didn’t play here?
O’Charley’s!
I think Smithers was banned for nanny-nanny-poo-poo rhetoric and general douchery. A shame, really. One had hopes for the lad….
Just because Joe6pack doesn’t have any money doesn’t mean the 1%ers aren’t awash in the stuff. I guess we have to wait for them to go broke to snap up those bargains.
When will they go broke?
They will never go broke, because the Federal Reserve has the power to print money and give it to them, in exchange for bad debt paper, at 100% of face value.
Additionally, the FED is printing 40 BILLION per month, every month to pass out to its Bankster Buddies to pass to their friends for “investments”.
They have an endless supply of money and Congress has not intervened to put an end to this game of feeding the rich more money.
Congress doesn’t understand that they Passed the BAnksters “Federal Reserve Act” and can UN-do it. AT any time.
However, they have been cow towed into submission and FEAR any interference because we are already in a precarious position. So, it’s “get as much as you can” for now, until the defaults can’t be papered over any more.
Eventually, the People will finally realize that the emperor has no clothes.
and FEAR any interference because we are already in a precarious position.
Nice summary, but I don’t think they fear it so much as know they can rely on fear as a tool be used to keep the masses thinking that without this “passing out to its bankster buddies” strategy, all hell would be unleashed.
In the end they’re looking out for us, of course. /sarc
In the meantime, I look forward to the arrival of “eventually.”
Is it safe to assume the housing market rally will continue so long as the Fed keeps propping up the market?
U.S. NEWS
Updated November 15, 2012, 2:53 p.m. ET
Fed Sees Hurdles in Housing Rebound
By JON HILSENRATH
The housing market, despite nascent signs of revival, is still plagued by tight credit, underwater borrowers and overdue loans, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said in a speech Thursday that expressed a great deal of caution about the progress of the U.S. economic recovery.
The comments were notable because the Fed in September launched a program to buy $40 billion per month of mortgage-backed securities, a plan designed in part to ease mortgage lending to support a housing rebound.
The central bank said it would keep buying bonds until it saw substantial progress in the economy, most notably in the job market. But the Fed chairman played down how much progress has been achieved in the critical housing sector.
“Although there are good reasons to be encouraged by the recent direction of the housing market, we should not be satisfied with the progress we have seen so far,” Mr. Bernanke said at a housing conference in Atlanta.
About the broader economy, he added, “we understand the depth of the problem and the need for action, and we will continue to use the policy tools that we have to help support economic recovery.”
Fed officials next meet Dec. 11-12 to plot out their next steps on interest-rate policies. Bond-buying programs are aimed, in part, at pushing down long-term interest rates.
In addition to the open-ended mortgage-bond-purchase program, the Fed has been conducting Operation Twist, a program in which it is buying $45 billion per month of long-term Treasury securities, funded with sales of short-term securities. The Twist program ends in December, and officials must decide whether to replace it or let it expire.
San Francisco Fed President John Williams said in a speech late Wednesday that he expected the Fed to continue its bond-buying programs “well into the second half of next year.”
…
What about the shadow inventory? Quite a bit of it here in Tucson. And elsewhere.
Yes
Check. Here as well.
yes they are giving fresh FHA loans to people who defaulted 3 years ago. Essentially they get a do over cause they were duped by angelo.
Churn & burn. Pray & delay. Extend & pretend.
Keeping hope alive.
(Mommy, why are they doing this?)
(Because it’s all they’ve got, Hon, it’s all they know.)
Is the stock market headed for bear market territory, just in time for hibernation season?
Intelligent Investing
Ideas from Forbes Investor Team
Investing
11/14/2012 @ 2:10PM
Obama Triumph Puts Stocks On Crash Course With Bear Market
Bert Dohmen, Contributor
The voters have spoken. Now investors have to deal with reality and act accordingly. The plunging investment markets since the election give us clues of what the markets are anticipating, and it’s not good.
I have been bearish on the global economies for about 18 months. The deteriorating economic numbers globally show that this analysis was correct. However, the stock market was manipulated upward into mid-September as if there were a big boom. In fact, even after the substantial market decline since the September high, the bulls are cheering and talking about the “wonderful” year ahead.
To me, it is so reminiscent of 2007, when I was writing my book, Prelude To Meltdown, predicting a 1929 event in 2008. I didn’t understand why so few saw the handwriting on the wall. Of course, no one has a crystal ball, and there can always be surprises. For me, the only event that could have changed the deteriorating global economies was a sudden strengthening in the U.S., which would have made the U.S. the locomotive of the world. And that event could have been a change in Washington.
Now the election strongly suggests that the policies of the past four years will continue, and probably worsen. Economic recoveries don’t come from heaven, and they don’t come from substantial tax hikes, and trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.
…
Economic recoveries come from middle class careers and “needs” industries which are priced such that those middle class with the middle class jobs have a little money left over for goodies.
In other words, balanced trade, public option health care, stabilized housing, and a secure safety net so that people are comfortable going to Applebees or the Apple store rather than hoarding every penny for an insecure old age.
balanced trade, public option health care, stabilized housing, and a secure safety net so that people are comfortable going to Applebees
Some biased dogmatists look at the above as “Socialism” whereas the above is actually the basis of healthy Capitalism and thriving entrepreneurship.
Here’s a story that our favorite airplane fixer (and many others) can relate to:
The Sucking Sound of (At Least Some) Skilled Workers Leaving the US
Excerpt: America’s continuing push to treat workers as disposable puts US companies at a disadvantage relative to employers in economies where for legal and cultural reasons, employees are treated better than in US. Now admittedly, this trend is taking place only in certain job categories, but twenty years ago, you would have been laughed out of the room if you had suggested that laborers like electricians and plumbers would have a better financial future if they left the US.
My brother from DFW came visiting last weekend.
Sez the vaunted “Texas Job Market” is a freaking joke. But people keep coming, looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow.
But people keep coming, looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow.
We have that problem too. Our local public library’s computer lab is always swarmed with drifters looking for jobs on craigslist
“… looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow.”
Wouldn’t they potentially have better luck finding pot in Colorado?
Economic recoveries don’t come from…substantial tax hikes, and trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.…
Let’s look at that sentence. The person who wrote it is kind of stupid or too blinded by politics to think straight. There are 2 major cognitive disconnects there.
1. “Substantial tax hikes” on the rich WOULD cut the deficits that are damned in the same sentence.
2. Absent “tax hikes” the only way to address the “trillion dollar deficits” would be deep spending cuts which would end any “economic recovery” referred to in the same sentence.
“Intelligent Investing Ideas from Forbes”?
Not in that stupid sentence.
Admittedly, this is the black and white argument, either tax the rich or cut spending. It will take elements of both to address the deficit. The balancing act required is critical because if you raise taxes on the wrong segments of the economy, small and mid-size businesses, for example, that could have a detrimental effect on job creation, which would deepen the economic crisis.
Also, a strong safety net, while making for a good sound bite, doesn’t address the spending required to fund it.
To recap, raising taxes and increasing spending on a social safety net without doing anything to address job creation is a path to socialism and economic disaster. Other than the insurance issue, I haven’t heard a single idea from people here on how to increase job creation, especially at the small and mid size business level.
What I have heard is increase income taxes on the wealthy and increase government regulation, which taken to an extreme is a job destroyer, not creator. Also, cash in the pockets of the poor and middle-class… which was tried by Bush with the tax rebates. Didn’t work then and won’t work now. One-time cash transfers don’t work in a long-term decline of wages and job creation.
I haven’t heard a single idea from people here on how to increase job creation, especially at the small and mid size business level.
Yes you have. Many times. Higher import duties, ending tax breaks for off-shoring, (which was blocked by the Republicans) campaign finance reform which would reduce lobbying influence, trust busting (banks), higher taxes on the rich to invest in America and investing in smaller business. You know, like the “Socialists” do.
Brazil: Dilma is Forbes’ ‘entrepreneur-in-chief’
http://www.pulsamerica.co.uk/2012/08/27/brazil-dilma-is-forbes-entrepreneur-in-chief/
The American business magazine is passionate about the Brazilian President;
Forbes approves of Rousseff’s handling of (Brazil’s) economy despite the slowdown in growth since last year. The magazine attributes a number of successes to the government and its “entrepreneur-in-chief”, tough lady Dilma.
Among them is the high number of newly founded small businesses, responsible for the creation of two out of three new jobs in recent years. Women lead half of these enterprises, beating the global average.
For the first time, start-up are able to get access to venture capital. They are also supported by tax incentives, government-sponsored microloans, and generally benefit from a progressively lower interest rate.
Forbes also reports on Lula’s and Dilma’s social policies, targeted at women and children, ‘because the man tends to get the money and spend it in alcoholic beverage.’ The reporters further praise Science without Borders, a programme allowing Brazilian students to study abroad (see Brazil:
Northeastener
I haven’t heard a single idea from people here on how to increase job creation, especially at the small and mid size business level.
——————————-
How about providing no interest loans to people like me to start a business?
For example, I need some capital to start a company where I buy the lottery tickets and my clients buy shares in my winnings.
When my client see how much they are winning, they will roll it over into buying more shares in my winnings!
Or has this already been done?
(don’t steal my idea)
Rio, you forgot the biggest one — nationalized health insurance.
The most effective thing the Pres/Govt could do jump start job creation would be Patent reform. Patent system was supposed to protect the little guy but it has been reversed through poor court and patent office decisions to protect big companies from disruptive tech and create an industry of “patent trolls”. This is really hurting us by putting the brakes on new startup companies and tech innovations, especially in software.
Dean Baker talks about that a lot, Weed Wacker. Google him for more info. He has a few free e-books out.
The idea of patenting a “business method” to buy something on-line with one mouse click always struck me as absurd.
Rio, you forgot the biggest one — nationalized health insurance.
Exactly. There would be no greater boon to entrepreneurship than nationalized health insurance.
That’s hilarious, Spook. Please work this bit into your standup routine?
Rio, you forgot the biggest one — nationalized health insurance.
Yes I did.
Wall Street is Racist.
The Black-Scholes option pricing model is Racist®
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-Scholes
Yes. Just in time to pick some good deals on dividend stocks soon. Nothing like earning dividends while hibernating!
Set ‘em up, suck ‘em in, shake ‘em out.
May I please help the next person in line?
The wonderous thing about a stock that pays out a steady stream of dividends is the owner gets to enjoy a steady stream of income.
The terrrible thing about a stock that pays out a steady stream of dividends is the owner has to suffer through waiting for the steady stream of income.
If he needs the money NOW then he will have to sell his stock. If a LOT of people need the money now then a lot of people will have to sell their stock.
Such mass selling, if it were to occur, would push down the price of the stock, which would create bargains for those who aren’t in the position of needing cash NOW.
I see a lot of TV ads by J.G. Wentworth and others willing to help people cash out structured settlements and annuities.
Structured settlements and annuities = a steady flow of income.
These TV ads are telling me there is a large demand for cash now rather than cash sometime in the future, and there are a lot of people willing to take a big hit against future income in order to get the money now.
Translate this need for money now to dividend paying stocks and what should you expect to see regarding the price of these stocks?
there are a lot of people willing to take a big hit against future income in order to get the money now.
Sure, they want to blow it all now. Buy an Escalade (or whatever is considered a cool ride these days) and act like a big shot, until the lump sum runs out. Isn’t that how just about every overpaid professional athlete behaves?
Set ‘em up, suck ‘em in, shake ‘em out.
“Annnd it’s gone. Next.”
I loved how the money was gone as soon as it was “invested”. One of my favorite Southpark Episodes.
A colleague told me he had $6000 in silver as a hedge. I don’t know if it was PM or paper silver…A buddy helped him with it. Anyway so last month he said it was worth only $400 now.
I missed the peak on my silver but still came out ahead. So I can’t really figure out what happened here.
@Montana
He must have been leveraged to lose that much in silver because silver hasn’t gone down that much percentage-wise. If you borrow money to buy commodities you are “gambling” not “hedging”.
Either that or his so called buddy was helping himself.
buy on the rumor and sell on the news?
“Jill Kelley’s Mercedes S500 with its honorary consul license plate…”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/14/jill-kelley-911call-david-petraeus-diplomatic-protection-tampa/1703995/
Honorary consul plate! Geez, and here I thought those little Police Athletic League stickers were cool.
PROGRAMS, BAILOUTS! GETCHA BAILOUTS HERE! HOT DOGS! POPCORN! PEANUTS! CRACKERJACKS! I got COLD BEER! I got HOT PRETZELS! I GOT BAILOUTS!
Sarah N. Lynch
Reuters
4:28 p.m. CST, November 14, 2012
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Emergency Management Agency will probably need to request a congressional bailout of its flood insurance operations, as claims from superstorm Sandy could be as much as four times greater than the program’s capacity, a top FEMA official said on Wednesday.
The National Flood Insurance Program, a FEMA subsidiary, has $2.9 billion in borrowing capacity but expects Sandy-related losses of $6 billion to $12 billion, Edward Connor, FEMA’s deputy associate administrator for federal insurance, told a meeting of the Federal Advisory Committee on Insurance.
bailouts are coming
PROGRAMS, BAILOUTS! GETCHA BAILOUTS HERE! HOT DOGS! POPCORN! PEANUTS! CRACKERJACKS! I got COLD BEER! I got HOT PRETZELS! I GOT BAILOUTS!
By Kristina Rasmussen
November 5, 2012
A bailout of state pension systems, which is on the horizon unless politicians up-and-down the government food chain get their act in order. A bailout would reward irresponsible states at the expense of responsible ones while setting a massive and destructive transfer of wealth in motion.
Pensions costs are growing at an unsustainable rate. State-run pension systems are underfunded by $2.8 trillion according to a recent report from Congress’s Joint Economic Committee. Mounting pension payments are crowding out funds for core government services (think roads, safety, education) while putting pressure on maxed-out taxpayers.
Government unions have made it clear they will fight any and all attempts to rein in pension costs. And the politicians who rely on union campaign contributions and get-out-the-vote machines won’t want to upset the apple cart.
The easier road for state and local leaders is to seek assistance from the federal government. This isn’t an unthinkable proposition—it’s happened in recent years with education budgets and Medicaid funding under the guise of “stimulus” spending. Why shouldn’t pensions go the same way?
Illinois is a classic example of a system gone haywire with few ways out. Politicians overpromised on benefits and underdelivered on funding. The result? New accounting rules put Illinois’s pension debt at more than $200 billion—six times the state’s annual budget.
Everyone knows that teachers are a potent political force. Regardless of reform lip service, Illinois’s Democratic leaders don’t really want to deliver strong medicine to a core constituency; for proof, look no further than the Chicago Teachers Union’s recent double-digit pay increase.
Beyond Illinois, too few states are tackling their pension liabilities head on. The nation is on the cusp of the pension crisis, and no one quite knows how it will shake out.
The most obvious form a federal bailout could take is direct assistance. The Illinois Policy Institute put together an online calculator at NoPensionBailout.com showing which states would “win” or “lose” from a scenario based on a combination of tax hikes and spending cuts. Users can input detailed changes and get county-by-county results.
[Read the U.S. News debate: Has the Federal Reserve Overstepped Its Mandate?]
Other voices have floated the idea of securing federal guarantees for state pension debt. Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn brought up the idea with U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, according to a 2009 Crain’s Chicago Business article. Since then, Governor Quinn has refused to rule out seeking or accepting a bailout.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/11/05/state-pensions-could-be-the-next-big-government-bailout - 43k
bailouts are coming
Denver Post - Denver joins Boulder in dropping prosecution of limited pot possession:
“Denver prosecutors will no longer charge those 21 and older for carrying less than an ounce of marijuana, and will review current cases that fit under the language of a recently voter approved state constitutional amendment.
District Attorney Mitch Morrissey and City Attorney Doug Friednash made their decision Thursday, a day after Boulder County District Attorney Stan Garnett made headlines when he announced his office will dismiss any pending cases that deal with less than an ounce of marijuana.
In Denver, Amendment 64 passed with about 66 percent support.
Statewide, the ballot measure, which is set to go into effect 30 days after votes are certified following the Nov. 6 election, passed with 55 percent of voter support.
Weld County District Attorney Ken Buck (fascist turd who lost his Senate bid in 2010), a staunch opponent of Amendment 64, said in a statement Thursday that his office has an obligation to prosecute offenses that were crimes at the time they occurred.
“Accordingly, we will not be dismissing existing marijuana possession cases,” he said. “But more importantly, our office prosecutes low level possession cases to get drug users help with their addictions. That practice will continue until state law changes.”
It all makes sense now: Gay marriage legalized on the same day as marijuana makes perfect biblical sense. Leviticus 20:13 “A man who lays with another man should be stoned”. Our interpretation has just been wrong for all these years”
Cute gag, but FWIW, same sex marriage wasn’t legalized here, thought with Dems now controlling both houses and the governor’s mansion that shouldn’t be too far off now.
I guess this was the intent all along:
Michelle OHBAHMa says LET TWINKIES DIE… 18,0000 workers need to find new jobs producing healthy foods
Nutrition is Racist®
Michelle OHBAHMa says LET TWINKIES DIE…
Why are you telling untruths DJ? Because you don’t like the President? Or even his wife??
Rio, you are correct.
I googled for “Twinkie Michelle Obama” and all I found were
1. A March 2010 video of Michelle saying that she wouldn’t ban Twinkies, and a related March 2010 article in The Atlantic, where Michelle says that warning labels on Twinkies are “too extreme.” Both of these references work AGAINST spook’s assertion. Both references are prior to Hostess declaring BK, so it’s irrelevant anyway.
2. A 2012 video of Barack Obama saying the “Michelle wouldn’t let him have a fried twinkie” at the Iowa State Fair. Whether or not she objected to the “fried” or the “Twinkie” is not clear. Nor is it known whether she was forbidding the whole nation a Twinkie or only her husband, over whom she obviously has more sway.
The other google returns, at least on the first page, are spoof comments of haterz putting words into Michelle’s mouth, like “Michelle will probably rejoice that Twinkies are gone.”
Spook, post a link or I call BS.
Friends don’t let friends eat fried twinkies.
That was dj, not spook.
Im confused?
What did I say earlier that had something to do with this?
????
Sorry spook, I meant DJ…
As was posted yesterday, while Hostess was going down the tubes, its management was rewarded with mind boggling pay increases. So not only were they not fired for their incompetence, they were rewarded for it, while the people who actually do the work were shafted.
But yeah, it has to be Mrs. Obama’s fault. I suppose that we should give Hostess a bailout, so it can double its executive salaries and pay them huge bonuses.
while Hostess was going down the tubes, its management was rewarded with mind boggling pay increases.
Let them eat Twinkies
Along with those stupendous pay raises, they probably got golden parachutes put into their contracts. Nice incentive to go belly up rather than actually negotiate with the workers.
“they probably got golden parachutes put into their contracts.”
Private equity strategy, straight out of the Bain Capital playbook.
Not quite. The Bain strategy means you have to loot the pension plan too and their newly elevated salaries weren’t quite high enough to really be Bain quality, but it is the same general idea.
More lies by the left.
Here is a story from Wallstreet Journal ONline back in APril of this year.
While, yes, initially, when the bankruptcy was first broached, the execs decided they needed to get out some cash before they company went under, they relented and DID NOT take increased compensation while entering into the Bankruptcy negotiations. In fact, they took a CUT.
By RACHEL FEINTZEIG
The chief executive of Hostess Brands Inc. said he is slashing executive compensation in the aftermath of creditor allegations that the company may have pushed management’s salaries higher in the months leading up to its Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing in an effort to skirt bankruptcy rules.
Gregory F. Rayburn, a restructuring expert who took the helm at Hostess last month, said in an interview that the top four executives working under him had agreed to cut their annual salaries to $1 until the company emerges from bankruptcy or Dec. 31, whichever comes first. The executives—Gary Wandschneider, John Stewart, David Loeser and Richard Seban—had seen their salaries increase by 75% to 80% last July, at a time when the baking company had already hired restructuring lawyers, according to creditors…….
end of quoted article.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303772904577333602976713584.html
The 7500 Teamsters in the Company of 18,000 employees were unwilling to work out any deal.
They would rather Everyone suffer than re-negotiate their “deal”. We have a contract. You need to pay it, whether you can or not!!
So, yes, realizing they were going to lose everything, and that the Union would probably not cut a deal, they sought to get out what they could.
Called on it, they relented and took their losses in jobs, income and years of service, sending the company over the cliff.
Good-bye Twinkie. We will miss you.
“Good-bye Twinkie. We will miss you.”
Not me. I used to love the brand when I wuz a pup, couldn’t get enough of those Devil Dogs. (My fave, although the cupcakes weren’t bad either), But that’s in the past. Their stuff tastes like crap now, so no big loss.
Their stuff tastes like crap now, so no big loss.
Which might be the real reason they’re going down the drain.
Yeah if you’re going to eat crap, it might as well be good crap. I think Hostess fell victim to 1) low carb diets and 2) craft baked goods.
while entering into the Bankruptcy negotiations. In fact, they took a CUT.
Yeah, once they filed for BK. But as the company lost money hand over fist prior to the BK, they were given huge raises.
Why is it that other union shops can make a profit and they couldn’t?
While, yes, initially, when the bankruptcy was first broached, the execs decided they needed to get out some cash before they company went under, they relented and DID NOT take increased compensation
And you know why the relented? Because THEY GOT CAUGHT. Creditors, knowing that a BK was imminent, got wind of the exec pay, and raised a stink. It was only a few days after getting caught that the execs relented. Some even generously offered to take $1 in pay. IMO, too little too late. They had already shown their true colors.
POOF! That’s the sound of the greedy unions sending 18k jobs into the ether. Good Job.
Where is the progressive empathy for these folks? That’s what I thought.
Hostess Brands to lay off 18,000 workers -
Clearly we need a federal bail-out guys.
Come one - we have the money. Let’s take the money from the well run successful businesses and give it to the businesses that are run into the ground. Eventually we’ll have a whole country full of mismanaged, unproductive businesses that can undercut successful businesses. Greedy profit seeking businesses will fail and all businesses will be equal.
Let’s take the money from the well run….
You are so unoriginal. You are a parody.
Asia Times Online:
“So many wars to launch, so little time. When you’re the political leader of the most militarized nation on the planet - as is the case with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu - you gotta find ways to play with your toys.
Even if you’re itching to, you can’t bomb Iran because you don’t have the right bunker buster bombs and enough fighter jet refueling capability. And on top of it, re-elected US President Barack Obama has made it absolutely clear; the way forward is diplomacy, not bombs.”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NK17Ak04.html
Thanks for posting, goon. I’ve been paying more attention to this than anything else, because if the balloon goes up, that’s where it’s going to happen. Bibi has proclaimed that he will do ANYTHING to defend Israel. I believe him.
Even if you’re itching to, you can’t bomb Iran because you don’t have the right bunker buster bombs and enough fighter jet refueling capability.
Israel has nukes. If Israel had the desire to wipe out Iran’s nuclear facilities and the usual “bunker buster” wasn’t going to do the job by itself, they could always go with a combination of bunker busters to soften the target and nukes to wipe the target off the map.
Even if the facility wasn’t completely destroyed, the surrounding area would be irradiated and useless to Iran for some time.
I think Israel will be the first nation to use nukes since the US bombed Hiroshima and I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened soon. Any day now, in fact.
Here’s hoping that you’re wrong. If they do that oil will probably hit $200 and the global economy will crater.
I’m hoping I’m wrong. This is really a pissing match between Bibi and Obama. Who is going to blink?
I’d really hate to see the doomsday scenario happen. Perhaps the best solution would be to give Israel another territory and evacuate the country. Clearly, it can’t get along with its neighbors.
Rumor has it they’ve got their eye on Florida. (sarc)
This is really a pissing match between Bibi and Obama. Who is going to blink?
Without US support, Israel is sunk. And they know it. If they nuke Teheran they can kiss US support bye bye.
Without US support, Israel is sunk. And they know it. If they nuke Teheran they can kiss US support bye bye.
I’m not sure about that… I agree with your statement that without US support, Israel has a problem. It’s that I think Israel is playing the regional instability card and by escalating with Hamas, they risk throwing the entire region into war… thereby forcing the US’s hand in getting involved.
The other scary part, and this is only partly in jest, is how fast things seem to be falling apart globally as we approach Dec 21, 2012. I mean Europe in depression, China maybe facing depression, Fiscal Cliff, Iran and Syria… and now Israel picking fights. At this rate, it wouldn’t surprise me if they did drop the bomb and start WW III…
At this rate, it wouldn’t surprise me if they did drop the bomb and start WW III
I think that we still have a lot more to lose before jumping into that abyss. WW3 means nukes, which means the survivors (if any) get to go back to the stone age.
If Israel nukes Teheran they might find themselves facing the wrath of the Muslim world without US support. And it’s entirely possible that Israel might get nuked (say by Russia or France) before being allowed to wipe out the entire middle east with their own arsenal, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we just stood by and watched. No point in letting our ox get gored.
“It’s that I think Israel is playing the regional instability card and by escalating with Hamas, they risk throwing the entire region into war… thereby forcing the US’s hand in getting involved.”
And I hope Obama comes through and faces down the situation without getting involved. I’m sure the neoCONS, however, are positively priapic about the whole situation.
“No point in letting our ox get gored.”
Amen. It’s kind of wearying to have to jump every time this bellicose little piece of land says frog. How many decades has this been going on, fer chrissakes?
Remember the Liberty!
“If Israel nukes Teheran they might find themselves facing the wrath of the Muslim world without US support.”
Hmmm. Interesting. I was wondering what was behind all the cockamamie “Spring” uprisings (I see there’s one today in Jordan, it seems like a never-ending phenomenon) in various Muslim countries, unseating long time rulers, many of them former allies of the US (and by default, Israel). And seeing that we seem to be behind much of this in one form or another, I was wondering what in name of Hades we might stand to gain from it.
Seen from a different viewpoint, I’m wondering if this might not be some sort of “strategery” to shake off the little yapping dawg that’s got it’s teeth sunk into the ankle of the US.
pri·ap·ic/prīˈapik/
Adjective:
1. Of, relating to, or resembling a phallus.
2. Of or relating to male sexuality and sexual activity.
LOL. Thanks for that, palmy. I learned something today.
“I was wondering what in name of Hades we might stand to gain from it.”
For the first time in upwards of 60 years, the US is not supporting the totalitarian dictators of the Middle East for our own convenience. When you decide to stop picking their leaders for them, you have to accept what ends up happening even if you aren’t very excited by the new leaders.
What are we doing? Letting democracy (hopefully, but at least a change from the previous dictators) happen in the Middle East even if it is inconvenient. Not the Bush model (invade, chose the people you want, hope like heck they get re-elected when you finally get out), thank goodness as it doesn’t require us to put troops on the ground. But it is still ugly. Our own revolution was rather ugly too. And that little scuffle the French indulged in.
I think Polly is a bot, not a real person.
I must also say that Israel is the victim in this situation. They must kill the animals before the animals kill them. Just as any of you would in your own lives.
Why do the global progressives continue to defend the Militant Islamists? Why? They would kill you as soon as they would look at you.
I must also say that Israel is the victim in this situation.
I agree which proves you stereotype too much.
re-elected US President Barack Obama has made it absolutely clear; the way forward is diplomacy, not bombs.”……
Which is, of course, a statement that falls in line with many oxymorons.
“Hey, I’m warning you, you better get over here and sit down and talk with us and stop that streetfighting”.
“oh, yea, what you gonna do about it? ”
“well, were gonna sit here and talk about it and say bad things about you.”
ULTIMATELY, diplomacy is ENFORCED with a GUN and BOMBS.
re-elected US President Barack Obama has made it absolutely clear; the way forward is diplomacy, not bombs.
Yeah, right.
ULTIMATELY, diplomacy is ENFORCED with a GUN and BOMBS.
Don’t forget the drones!
I heard something interesting on the radio this morning. What’s going to happen when our enemies learn how to make their own drones?
“What’s going to happen when our enemies learn how to make their own drones?”
Think of the bleak scenes of the future in the movie Terminator. Funny how science fiction sometimes becomes science fact.
I was thinking more of a drone launched from a container ship and wiping out some 1%er in the Hamptons.
wiping out some 1%er in the Hamptons
Sounds good to me
I just started reading an interesting book called The Dragon’s Gift and it discusses the significant inroads that China has made into Africa not by force, but building in schools, soccer stadiums, roads, airports, etc. What the US accomplishes in years through military and failed diplomatic endeavours, the Chinese can accomplish in months.
Of course it’s to gain access to their natural resources, But to insist that the only way to win the hearts and minds of a country is through force is downright ridiculous. After our stunning successes in Afghanistan and Iraq, maybe it’s time to revisit the notion of getting what we want by being the global schoolyard bully.
If China starts building Mexican infrastructure, watch American policy change in a New York minute.
Actually, Mexico has pretty decent infrastructure, at least in the major cities. On the dusty border towns, not so much.
No one is even remotely saying that “FREE TRADE” is the same as ‘diplomacy’, which is usually engaged in when efforts to reach agreements on living arrangements fail.
The Chinese are engaged in a free trade exchange.
The idea that the problems between the Israelis and Palestinians will be resolved by a trade mission is what is really ridiculous. This is your comparison of the situation. There is no comparison.
We were discussing “diplomacy”, and in context, the Obama philosophy that diplomacy will resolve the current state of conflict.
It won’t.
Ultimately, some group will put down an ultimatum. The ultimatum will be enforced with guns. That is what UN RESOLUTIONS mean.
“we have decided thusly”. “comply, or else”.
We will “contain you” with guns. In the meantime we will cut off your foodstuffs and medical supplies and energy. Yea, that’s “diplomacy”.
Comply with our demands. WE know best.
I didn’t see free thrade mentioned in my thread. I am discussing bring countries out of poverty through development. And not the IMF way of ending a couple million dollars, handing the contract to Bechtel to undertake some massive project that really is less effective than the Chinese approach. We shall see.
China is hated in Africa due to their exploitation of workers. Who wrote this book,the Chinese government?
They also do not expect rulers to protect human rights. They are very popular with the leaders of Sudan, with a lot of the people not so much.
Well the US is certainly the beacon of hope with its stunning adherence to the Geneva Convention, et al. And granting China MFN status in the 90’s, as well as making them our largest trade partner, in effect feeding this monster, only condones its activities. And our cozy relationship with the Saudis – another stellar example of freedom democracy.
The funny part is how China is making its loans outside of the OECD, which is ruffling their collective feathers. Seems like there’s a more formidable bully in the schoolyard.
But the book is well researched and written, and offers a compelling argument.
“China is hated in Africa due to their exploitation of workers.”
I had the same impression but unfortunately that’s wrong. I wish I could recall where I read this, I think it was in Vanity Fair a while back, but there was a story about some do-gooding UN based NGO “human rights” organization going into Africa to investigate abuse and exploitation of Africans by the Chinese in a certain region (Nigeria, maybe?). Yes, there certainly was exploitation and abuse. However, the workers themselves actually stalked and tried to attack the “investigators”. They didn’t want the “help”. They wanted the work and the pay, however miserable. They didn’t want the Chinese to abandon them.
From what I’m reading, the spectre of the “Ugly Chinese Manager” will replace the “Ugly American”. ……seems that they typical Xian6Pak manager/plant foreman in Africa doesn’t play well with the locals.
Natural Resources don’t mean squat, unless you have an economy that buys the products. Since everyone’s business plan is to export their stuff to the USA and Europe, and our government’s policy is to kill all of the markets for all but high-end stuff, i fail to see how this will work.
It’s not that we don’t have strategic materials in the USA. It’s just cheaper to throw our industry under the bus, and buy what you need from China.
Look at it this way: while racism is alive and well in the west, managers know that they cannot overt express racism. I doubt that Chinese firms force their managers to take “diversity training”
maybe it’s time to revisit the notion of getting what we want by being the global schoolyard bully
But we’re supposed to be exceptional Americans! Kicking butt is one of our core values!
What a delicious contradiction! “Christian” America uses force to “win hearts”, while atheist Chicoms use the carrot.
Is Hwy50 still posting?
Where are you these days, young lady? I’ve missed your posts.
Hi CIBT, aka PB, and aka GS. Just been hanging around and taking it easy. Thank you for the lovely compliment. Glad to see you are still posting.
Hello, hello, hello.
FPSS, my favorite kitty kat
So glad to see you posting also 
Been out this way recently?
Haven’t been out West in forever. Long overdue, I suppose but it’s been rough.
Good to hear from you again.
I have to confess that a couple of times recently when the Neocon nut jobs were hammering me for pointing out their inanity, I found myself longing for the day when you or Olygal would jump in to my defense.
I get tired of waging war on nutjobs, but somebody has to do it!
Highway appears to have cruised off in that 1949 Dodge. He hasn’t been by here for quite some time.
Oh dang it. I enjoyed his postings. I hope he is doing well
I thought Hwy morphed into Wobbling Liberte?
Hwy came back for a few days about six months ago and hasn’t been heard from since. Private posts have gone unanswered.
If you’re out there, son, drop us a line? And if you’re unable, let’s hope you’re ridin’ high on the Orange Blossom Special ‘long our favorite stretch of Hwy 58.
The Dutch economy shrank by 1.1pc in the third quarter amid a deep housing slump, and even Austria has begun to succumb. Finland’s economy has shrunk by 1pc over the last year.
“Recession comes as no surprise and it is going to get worse next year,” said Desmond Supple from Nomura. “Europe has imposed dusted-off policies from the 1930s and they are driving peripheral countries towards depression,” he said.
“We are seeing a mix of pro-cyclical fiscal austerity, overly-tight monetary policy, and regulatory overkill under the Basel III bank rules that are forcing lenders to tighten credit. Europe is stuck in a bad equilibrium and it is not going to end until there is a change of course.”
Prof Paul de Grauwe from the London School of Economics (LSE) said austerity measures imposed on the Club Med with no offsetting stimulus by the creditors was creating a contractionary bias to the whole system and and leading to a “very dangerous situation”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9681868/1930s-medicine-pushes-Europe-back-into-double-dip-recession.html
“The Dutch economy shrank by 1.1pc in the third quarter amid a deep housing slump,…”
PAGING NHZ!
We have a saying in the airplane business….
“It’s not what you know, it’s who you blow…..”
Exhibit “A”
http://tinyurl.com/bo35nte
And she and her hubby would still be in business, if she hadn’t tried to call in another chit.
“Scams” are our only growth industry. The ROI, vs. doing actual work, is about 100 times higher.
This story threatens to get juicier and juicier over time.
Do the Kelleys contribute anything of value to American society?
Updated: 6:01 p.m. Friday, Nov. 16, 2012 | Posted: 6:01 p.m. Friday, Nov. 16, 2012
US pension insurer runs record $34B deficit
By MARCY GORDON
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON —
The federal agency that insures pensions for more than 40 million Americans last year ran the widest deficit in its 38-year history.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. said Friday that its deficit grew to $34 billion for the budget year that ended Sept. 30. That compares with a $26 billion shortfall in the previous year.
Pension obligations grew by $12 billion to $119 billion last year. Assets used to cover those obligations increased by only $4 billion to $85 billion.
The agency has now run deficits for 10 straight years. The gap has grown wider in recent years because the weak economy has triggered more corporate bankruptcies and failed pension plans.
If the trend continues, the agency could struggle to pay benefits without an infusion of taxpayer funds.
Agency Director Josh Gotbaum said continued deficits “will ultimately threaten” the PBGC’s ability to pay pension benefits to retired workers.
“There’s no imminent threat that we’re going to stop cutting checks,” Gotbaum said during a conference call with reporters. However, he said, Congress must act “long before 10 years from now” to increase the insurance premiums that companies pay to the agency.
The Obama administration has proposed raising the premiums and tailoring them to the size of companies and their level of financial risk. Under the plan, bigger companies and those at greater risk of failing would pay larger premiums. The fees haven’t been raised in six years.
Companies whose pension plans failed in the latest year, with the agency taking them over, included Friendly Ice Cream Corp., law firm Dewey & LeBoeuf and Olan Mills. Inc.
The PBGC joined with unions at American Airlines earlier this year to oppose the company’s plan to terminate its pension plans. The move would have dumped billions of dollars of new obligations on the agency. American ended up freezing pensions for most workers instead of terminating them.
The American Benefits Council, which represents businesses, called the $34 billion deficit figure misleading and said it was based on faulty math.
“The public should not be led to believe the PBGC is in danger of a bailout, and Congress and the Obama administration should not use this number as a pretext to raise (insurance) premiums,” the group said in a statement. The group has been critical of the PBGC.
The PBGC was created in 1974 as a government insurance program for traditional employer-paid pension plans. If an employer can no longer support its pension plan, the agency takes over the assets and liabilities, and pays promised benefits to retirees up to certain limits.
“US pension insurer runs record $34B deficit”
Without bothering to carefully read the story, I am 99% confident that they omitted the part about how the amounts the PBGC pays out on the corporate pensions that get dumped on it represent pennies on the dollar of promised benefits.
Yet it seems they still may need a bailout. How many different ways can corporate America screw the little people?
“Without bothering to carefully read the story, I am 99% confident that they omitted the part about how the amounts the PBGC pays out on the corporate pensions that get dumped on it represent pennies on the dollar of promised benefits.”
I’m sure there’s a retired airline captain that could provide the omissions.
“If an employer can no longer support its pension plan, the agency takes over the assets and liabilities, and pays promised benefits to retirees up to certain limits.”
Said limits can take a retiree from steak dinners to dog food in a heartbeat.