The Housing Bubble

hostess screwed hostess.

The Twinkie: Will it return as a Mexican expat?

By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / November 17, 2012

The announcement that Hostess Brands would shutter and liquidate its 33 bakeries – including its Twinkie-making plant in Illinois – sparked a fevered Boomer nostalgia ironically belied by the fact that it’s been years since most people have bit into that impossibly long-lasting and sticky-sweet miracle of artificial confectionery. (Today, about 12 percent of US households buy Twinkies, down from 15 percent in 2004.)

But news that Twinkie bars are now selling at gold bar prices on eBay hints at opportunity: In fact, global firms are already lining up to bid on the iconic brand names – Ding Dongs, Ho Ho’s, Wonder Bread, Drake’s – in order to prepare many, if not all, for reissue.

The brands “most likely will be purchased by a competitor that will bolt the additional sales to a more efficient delivery system,” David Pauker, a food industry restructuring specialist, tells Reuters. “The company itself won’t survive.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/1117/The-Twinkie-Will-it-return-as-a-Mexican-expat - 86k

Viva el twinkie!

So far I’m not seeing anything in the article that says that management “stole the workers pensions”

The company has been in bankruptcy since January of 2012. And this is the second round of bankruptcy.

Unfortunately the unions, management, creditors and investors didn’t agree to a prepackaged bankruptcy. If they had the company might have survived.

Once you are in bankruptcy no one is steeling anything. Everyone gets their small piece of what’s left according to a Federal Judge under the rule of law. So what is happening now should come as no surprise to any party involved. And in this case the financial statement is a smoldering black hole in the ground.

So far I’m not seeing anything in the article that says that management “stole the workers pensions”

It’s a video, not an article.

And it’s in English, unlike the Swedish-language link you gave the other day that you claimed proved all your points.

B.S. Google translate if your friend. And I posted the relevant text in English from the paper.

Above I was referring to Colorado’s link.

Just watching the video - it is an interview with a Union machine operator who looks like Ted Nugent on the picket line saying - “they stole my pension!” He also says - “It wasn’t about money!” “We weren’t looking for more money!”

Come on. Get a grip. This guy is not offering any insight into the bankruptcy proceedings. And as far as I can see from Kraft’s SEC filing the pension system was paid up per law.

“Once you are in bankruptcy no one is steeling anything.”

Right. How about if they steeled it before the company went into BK? How about management giving themselves big raises right before going BK too. Would that be steelish?

And to call you out - I posted it in plain English as quoted by the Swedish Finance Minister. Here is the quote again cut and pasted from my post - in plain English.

Anders Borg, Sweden’s Finance minister quote:

“What then were the factors that made the Swedish model stopped working? Of course, Sweden was hit adversely by the international recession that followed in the wake of the two oil crises in the 1970s. But other industrialized countries hit by these shocks and it is difficult to argue that Sweden would be so sensitive to the international economy, this may explain why Sweden fell from fourth place in the ranking of OECD countries’ GDP per capita around 1970 to a ninth place in 1991 and a fourteenth in 1997 (new ranking after revised figures).”

“Instead, I would argue that the explanation is in the economic policies of the 1970 - and 1980’s. Five factors usually cited as particularly significant: ”

“- Budget deficit and high inflation undermined macroeconomic stability.”

“- The tax and benefits system undermined the work line.”

“- A vague competition policy and ignorance of the importance of entrepreneurship and innovation ability in business.”

“- An uncertain investment environment in the wake of macroeconomic imbalances.”

“- A fragmented political system in combination with a weak institutional environment hampered the long-term economic policy.” ”

“Let me also mention that the compressed wage structure that already existed in the 1950s and 1960s created when employer contributions and consumption taxes rose during the 1970s, tax wedges and pulled up the cost of employing people with low qualifications, who often had hard to establish themselves in the labor market. Put simply, one can say that the Swedish model with strong unions and compressed wage structure was not compatible with the high tax wedges that were added in the 1970s.”

How about if wee fairies took it? Or trolls?

You make a claim that they took money from the pension before bankruptcy… It’s all just conjecture - you are making it up. There is no evidence whatsoever that they took anything from the pension before bankruptcy. But you *want* to believe it.

“And in this case the financial statement is a smoldering black hole in the ground.”

Couldn’t the same have been said back in 2008 about the financials for AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc?

Hostess’s main problem was not that they were bankrupt, but rather that they were not too big to fail. Food processors tend to not fall into that category.

I’m not sure I understand you point.

I posted it in plain English as quoted by the Swedish Finance Minister.

And I totally proved your cherry picking propaganda wrong by using your Swedish government website quotes of Anders Borg, Sweden’s Finance minister, Peter Englund of the Stockholm School of Economics, US Federal reserve papers and Lars Jonung—the chief economic adviser to Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt in 1992—and now with the The Fiscal Policy Council of Sweden. The Swedish crisis was brought about by financial deregulation, as it was in the USA. The posts were Nov. 17th. If you want I can post all the links again.

“The Nordic crises have their roots in the process of financial liberalization that was carried out in a monetary regime based on pegged but adjustable exchange rates. In the 1980s, the financial systems of Finland, Norway and Sweden underwent major deregulation. Financial liberalization set off a sustained lending boom, capital inflows, rising asset prices, rapidly increasing consumption and investment and an overheated nontradables sector.” Lars Jonung

Anders Borg is a banker/economist who defends the banks’ role in Sweden’s RE crash and blames it on welfare instead. Shocker.

Hostess had been in bankruptcy proceedings since January, I’m sure that the workers’ pensions were being stolen- er, renegotiated- at that point, which is essentially what the interviewee said.

How about if wee fairies took it? Or trolls?

Kochtopus trolls? You’re probably right. I bet you’d know all about that.

“Hostess had been in bankruptcy proceedings since January, I’m sure that the workers’ pensions were being stolen- er, renegotiated- at that point, which is essentially what the interviewee said.”

Yes alpha-sloth - you are “sure.” You’ve made up your mind with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I wait for the facts making up my mind. It’s nice to know though that there is such naivety left in the world like yours that can just dream up any old thing and therefore be “sure” about it. If you dream it it must be true! Oh look! It’s Peter Pan! Time to fly to never never land!

LOL

“Anders Borg is a banker/economist who defends the banks’ role in Sweden’s RE crash and blames it on welfare instead. Shocker.”

Anders Borg is the finance minister of Sweden. But I guess his research is not to be trusted - you should get Ted Nugent from the video link you posted to do a video about Sweden. Clearly he knows what is going on.

Ted Nugent video dude - the 1970’s is calling and they want their mullet back.

LOL

Prior to being finance minister, Borg was a banker/economist.

Following defeat of the Moderate Party in the 1994 general election, Borg worked in the private Bank sector. From 1995 to 1998 he worked at the company Transferator Alfred Berg as responsible for economic and political analysis. From 1998 to 1999 he was Chief Economist at ABN Amro Bank in Stockholm and from 1999 to 2001 he was Head of the Economic Analysis Department at Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken (SEB) in Stockholm.
wikipedia

” You’ve made up your mind with absolutely no evidence to back it up. ”

Looks like the evidence is on my side,the BS is on yours.

Yes, alpha-sloth Anders Borg, the Finance Minster, like pretty much all finance ministers in the world had a tour in banking. Therefor you are right - only the tooth fairy can be a valid source of research on the topic. Maybe Peter Pan knows where to find him. Or just ask your pal Ted Nugent. Clearly he is more expert on the subject than Sweden’s own finance minister.

Maybe Peter Pan knows where to find him. Or just ask your pal Ted Nugent.

Don’t get testy just because I keep proving you wrong. Have your think tank produce another bs study to disprove me, Oligarch Defender Troll.

All you have to ask is “Would Hostess have had a viable business model if the labor was sourced to China or Mexico?” The answer is yes. Hostess was paying too much in compensation and benefits, but because of the labor Union, couldn’t adjust to those market realities and competitive pressures.

So the “market realities and competitive pressures” meant the workers had to work for slave wages and no benefits, because we have ‘free trade’ with third world countries.

Of course the top executives get wages and benefits competitive with their first world peers.

The socialists here want to paint capitalists as crooks

Can I paint something different? Can I paint the “capitalists” as socialists?

“During an election year appraisal of Bain Capital buyout investments under Mitt Romney, Bloomberg reported how the buyout firm wrenched out gains by socializing pension claims of companies like GS Industries, another failed steel company.” From the article below.

Twinkies Defense is Private Equity’s Pension Offense: Street Whispers

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11771361/1/twinkies-defense-is-private-equitys-pension-offense-street-whispers.html

The liquidation filing of Hostess Brands — the maker of consumer fattening favorites such as Ho Ho’s and Twinkies - also means that Americans may soon gorge themselves on the company’s massive pension liabilities.

Hostess’ liquidation — just like the recent bankruptcies of well known companies like Friendly Ice Cream and Eddie Bauer — raises the prospect that sophisticated private equity and distressed debt hedge fund investors are using courts to cast off unwanted pension obligations on U.S. taxpayers and put a losing investment back on the track.

……The size of Hostess Brands employees claim to PBCG could also illustrate how big money investors are using the bankruptcy process to shirk financial obligations on a federal agency, which increasingly looks to be supported by taxpayers, as a means to salvage or profit on an investment.

So the “market realities and competitive pressures” meant the workers had to work for slave wages and no benefits, because we have ‘free trade’ with third world countries.

Fair and balanced trade between countries is the goal, but the reality is until our politicians are willing to go down the road of protectionism in unfair trade relationships, we have wage pressures at the low to mid end of our workforce due to a glut of cheap labor overseas. Nothing the executives of Hostess could do would change that…

Management at Hostess had one mission: profit. If the business wasn’t profitable because of labor costs, than aligning labor costs should have been the focus. They failed as a direct result of not having Union buy-in. I can’t speak to the relationship between Management and labor at Hostess, but if workers felt unfairly treated, they were free to leave and find gainful employment elsewhere… that too is “competition”.

So the “market realities and competitive pressures” meant the workers had to work for slave wages and no benefits, because we have ‘free trade’ with third world countries.

Yup.

but if workers felt unfairly treated, they were free to leave and find gainful employment elsewhere

Because gainful employment opportunities abound, right?

Hostess’ liquidation — just like the recent bankruptcies of well known companies like Friendly Ice Cream and Eddie Bauer — raises the prospect that sophisticated private equity and distressed debt hedge fund investors are using courts to cast off unwanted pension obligations on U.S. taxpayers and put a losing investment back on the track.

So a bunch of Private Equity types have come up with a way to ensure a profit for their investors at the expense of workers’ pension obligations in companies they fail to turn around?

Sounds like the PE guys are pretty smart at what they do, which is coming up with novel ways to make profit. If this is such a problem, why don’t politicians and regulators ensure pensions are off-limits during bankruptcy proceedings? No raiding of pensions,etc. Wouldn’t this be a better way to reform the system and protect workers retirement?

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a socialist, all capitalism looks like…

Sounds like the PE guys are pretty smart at what they do, which is coming up with novel ways to make profit.

Wow. You just defended socialism because some “smart” people made a profit from it. That is hypocrisy caused by rigid dogmatic thinking.

, why don’t politicians and regulators ensure pensions are off-limits during bankruptcy proceedings? No raiding of pensions,etc. Wouldn’t this be a better way to reform the system and protect workers retirement?

Yes, I agree. We need more regulation here, to ensure that viable companies aren’t being needlessly looted and destroyed by the 1%ers- as is clearly happening now.

A perfect example of how regulation is needed to ensure the efficient long-term functioning of the capitalist system.

Because gainful employment opportunities abound, right?

First you vilify those that create jobs by calling them profiteers and crooks, then you lament the lack of jobs available? Some consistency would be nice… are the capitalists evil crooks who steal from children and widows or are they a valuable part of our society? I’m getting mixed messages…

You just defended socialism because some “smart” people made a profit from it.

Not sure where you got that from. All I did was point out that the capitalists are doing what they do, finding ways to make a profit…

Protecting workers pensions from being raided in buyouts isn’t socialism. As I said, if this is a problem, then the politicians should do what we pay them to do and legislate a solution. Meanwhile, the capitalists will continue to profit within the structure of the legal system as it currently exists.

Some consistency would be nice…

The consistency is there, you just refuse to see it. Your so-called job creators are mostly profiteers and crooks, American job destroyers. The real job creators do it no matter what the tax rates are. They want to start their own biz, for whatever reason.

Sounds like the PE guys are pretty smart at what they do, which is coming up with novel ways to make profit.

How are these ways “novel?” The ways are over a hundred years old, documented by Dickens and Sinclair, or, taken to its logical conclusion, Margaret Mitchell.

” Go risk your own capital and start a business and learn to compete as opposed to having crap handed to you on the basis of collective bargaining and threats of a business shutdown via strike. Start your own business and then you can complain about not being paid enough.”

Most of the executives in these companies have not risked their own capital. Hostess was not a start up company. They failed to adapt to a changing market. They failed to change their business model. Most of that is on the executives who make the decisions and not on the workers who execute based on those decisions.

I think the real key to our union issues is to give labor a seat in the boardroom, like German companies do. Create a cooperative model instead of an oppositional one. Give unions more say in executive compensation and they won’t feel so hard done by when cost cuts are necessary. The wisdom of crowds would point to more ideas being better for the long term health of the company.

NorthEasterner - the communist are in real trouble because none of the people they are trying to save want to be saved. No one wants communism. I don’t know if you’ve read recent Marxist research papers they are very interesting. Marxist have effectively given up researching Marxism and instead now spend all their time researching propaganda and how to convince people to adapt their failed religion. So they pay people full time to sit on chat boards like this and use that propaganda to pull people in. I’m pretty sure Rio is a paid for communist shill. He is either being directly paid to to do so or his living is somehow dependent on keeping the communist system in place.

If you look at the history of the concept of a classless society it didn’t come from Marx. It came from Saint-Simon in the early 1800’s along with Pestalozzi and later influenced Spenser and eventually Mises and Hayek - the classic liberals. And it is a classical liberal idea that the industrial age would allow the general population to become wealthy enough to be free of the ruling class and instead would engage in a free and open market. Saint-Simon posited that the industrial revolution required a free market after Locke. The industrial age required a market to function and that was the classless society.

Before then everyone was slave to what they called “oriental despotism” or militaristic regimes. The peasants grew the food and were allowed to keep only enough for subsistence and they rest went to the elite - the ruling class. There was no need for a truly open market.

The elite never had enough labor. Gaining more labor was always the path to greater power. When the industrial revolution started employers started to pull the peasants and serfs away from the ruling elite powers. The elite were rapidly loosing their source of wealth and power from this labor drain. Men were becoming wealthy and productive. Governments actually tried and failed to shut down industry for that reason. The ruling class crushed their own colonies. But the open market prevailed and the elite lost their grip on power. Our own U.S. Constitution was a reaction to the old ruling elite class. It was one of the first constitutions to deal with the issues of the modern age and the industrial revolution and a promise of a classless society and a free market.

If you look at history Marxism didn’t come from the workers. Marxism was developed by the same wealthy elite ruling class that was losing its grip on power. They wanted desperately to gain power over labor and industry and the free market was taking away their wealth. In desperation members of the ruling class came up with Marxism. This is a system where they, as a small ruling class or politburo could take control back by usurping the control of the industries for themselves (usually at gun point). But it meant breaking the free market. All their attempts have ended in failure. And yet they still try over and over with their propaganda.

I’m not saying we can’t have a social safety net or that social security makes us communist as long as it is fully funded and paid for by reasonable taxation. As long as we don’t pay for it with rapidly expanding debt and inflation. And I’m against corporate welfare and all the bail-outs. Reasonable people can debate these issues. But in a free market.

It’s time for like minded people to fight back - we don’t want a ruling class. We don’t need despots. We don’t need a politburo. We want a free market. Call it libertarianism or classical liberalism or whatever you want. I just want to get off this road to serfdom. And they can take their military complex, their suspension of habeas corpus and their drones and stick it! I’ll not give in to a bunch of central planners.

Yeah, what people don’t realize is we create these “social improvement plans ” (note specifically not calling them socialist to avoid that whole debate) or “safety nets” and encode these plans as features that if you follow this rule, you get this benefit. Then they act surprised when people follow the letter of the rule and not the spirit of the rule and it turns out badly. Then they start saying the people using the program according to the rules and not the spirit are the “real socialists” and we start getting into arguments about socialists vs corporatists.

One camp says we need to eliminate the programs and let individuals decide who they feel like “helping” , and the other camp says no we need to force people to help each other, we just need better rules to prevent “gaming the rules”. To me this breaks down to “most people are good, so let them be good with minimal rules vs most people are bad, so lets design more/better rules”. Fundamentally though, I don’t think we can solve any of the problems if we don’t acknowledge that this is the basic moral balance we are walking when choosing our laws.

I think the real key to our union issues is to give labor a seat in the boardroom, like German companies do. Create a cooperative model instead of an oppositional one.

Hear, hear!

Alpha-sloth - the union was given a seat at the boardroom.

Alpha-sloth - the union was given a seat at the boardroom.

It should be done in every large corporation. Sure seems to work for the Germans.

All I did was point out that the capitalists are doing what they do, finding ways to make a profit…

The “capitalists” are making a profit by socializing potential losses, therefore you are defending socialism because someone is profiting from it. Bashing socialism while defending socializing losses is hypocritical even if the socializing losses is legal.

“During an election year appraisal of Bain Capital buyout investments under Mitt Romney, Bloomberg reported how the buyout firm wrenched out gains by socializing pension claims of companies like GS Industries, another failed steel company.” Thestreet dot com

“It’s time for like minded people to fight back - we don’t want a ruling class.”

We have a ruling class called the .1%, with bankers being the most visual (and despised) part of the group.

As wealth leaves the western world and the wealthy are more successful in preserving (and in many cases, increasing) their share, they will be the target of people’s ire. The limited success of unions in slowing their decline in standard of living, and the fact that their income comes from taxes, draws attention of those who are rapidly losing ground.

Both unions and the wealthy need to undertand the reality of declining western wealth. Making real concessions is necessary. Voting raises and bonuses for themselves, or striking jobs out of existence, won’t make the ongoing process of global wealth parity any more smooth.

SF Bay Area

that is very interesting and a idea one I have not heard before

“you look at history Marxism didn’t come from the workers. Marxism was developed by the same wealthy elite ruling class that was losing its grip on power. They wanted desperately to gain power over labor and industry and the free market was taking away their wealth.”

I’m pretty sure Rio is a paid for communist shill.

Your just saying that because I consistently destroy your Koch Brothers ministry of Propaganda BS. Once so bad it reduced you to an online blithering idiot.

And yesterday with your Swedish nonsense. I used papers from the Federal Reserve, Quotes from former Swedish government officials, government economists and your own website to show that the Swedish Banking crisis was caused by deregulation in the banking industry - just as it was caused in the USA.

And you promote communism much more than the “socialists” on this blog. How? Here’s how. Banking deregulation and gross wealth inequality destroys economies. Destroyed economies can lead to Communism. When you defend gross wealth/income inequality and banking deregulation, you are defending things that can lead to social unrest and Communism.

When I defend proper regulation and a more equal wealth and income distribution I am defending things which promote healthy capitalism.

I am the defender of Capitalism while you are the promoter of Communism.

Marxism was developed by the same wealthy elite ruling class that was losing its grip on power.

that is very interesting and a idea one I have not heard before

You haven’t heard it before because it’s jive. SF Bay Area thinks he can re-write history. The wealthy elite ruling class of Russia was crushed by Marxism. The rich and powerful Russian Royals were crushed by Marxism. The rich and powerful Russian Orthodox church was crushed by Marxism.

SF Bay Area’s Koch Brother propaganda is getting more and more bizarre.

At your service cactus. I hope you have time to look at some of the authors works I posted. If you’d like to get a quick intro to history and foundations of neoclassical thought and Austrian economics do a quick search on iTunes U for the name “Murray N. Rothbard” of Columbia University. He also has good histories on Marxism, the economics of class, libertarianism, free markets and anarchism. He’s a good starting point anyway.

If you look up the life of Carl Marx you’ll find he was a complete hoax. He spent more money on luxury goods per year than the top 0.01% of Noble Englishmen at the time - and these were the elite of the elite. Friedrich Engels and others gave him endless amounts of money and he always demanded more and wasted it on a ridiculous life of luxury - while turning his back on his own son. You’ll find the same profile for the major figures in Marxism - backgrounds in elite oligarchy. They came from great wealth and sought to regain their power from a society that they were losing their grip on. They first sought to defeat industrialism but they finally failed. Then they decided if there was to be an industrial age well then they better be the ones in charge of it. So they worked to kill the free market economy and take over industry at gun point. For the Marxist elite it always was about control by the same oligarchy that used to rule the serfs. They just tried to adapt it to an industrial age. And it didn’t work. Industrialism requires a free market and begets a classless society able to rule themselves.

Marxism was developed by the same wealthy elite ruling class that was losing its grip on power.

Most revolutionary leaders, including most of the Russian Marxists, come from a thwarted middle class that sees an ineffective elite permanently blocking its path upwards. The Iranian Revolution was a (unwise) revolt of the middle class students against a privileged elite. Nazism, most of the revolutions in South America, the Arab Spring, are other examples. The foot soldiers may come from the peasant class but the leaders and instigators are usually from a repressed middle class.

Really Rio? And what about Marx? What about all the core communist party members? All from wealthy elite ruling oligarchies.

How about we get a little closer to home Rio. How about your little commie bastard present of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff. A family member of mine was the United States Ambassador to Brazil. I know about your leaders - I’ve read the dossier on every single one of them.

Dilma Rousseff. Rousseff - sounds so friendly and french. Makes you think of Henri Rousseau the artiest, doesn’t it? As it was intended because her name is a fake - just like the plastic surgery she’s had. It’s all a decoy. What is her real name? Русев = Russév. Daughter of a very active communist member of the Bulgarian Communist Party - a rich lawyer - Pétar Russév, Петър Русев - a rich oligarch family. He changed his name to a french form to hide his identity. She then became a key member of Comando de Libertação Nacional—COLINA. This was the faction of the communist party that didn’t believe in trying to gain power by political means. They knew the presents didn’t want communism. COLINA was the fraction of the communist party that preferred an armed struggle. She wanted to force communism by gun point. She began the black market arms dealer for Colina. Organized bank robberies to fund Colina. She arranged the kidnapping of not one but two Ambassadors to Brazil. She stole cars and tried to take the government at gun point. I could go on and on about each and everyone of them.

Labels you say? Just labels? She is a self declared Maoist. She declared her loyalty to a violent revolution. Her self proclaimed hero was the guerrilla soldier Che Guevara.

You may be able to fool a few ill informed people on this forum but you aren’t fooling me. I know who you and your type are.

Let me ask you this Rio - do you own guns? More than one? Fantasize about getting some action? I know you.

We know it was about control. What you constantly fail to see is HOW and WHY they were able to get that control.

Marie Antoinette didn’t get it either.

NOBODY here wants to see communism, yet the the FIRE has become exactly exactly that while claiming they have to answer to no one.

“And you promote communism much more than the “socialists” on this blog. How? Here’s how. Banking deregulation and gross wealth inequality destroys economies. Destroyed economies can lead to Communism. When you defend gross wealth/income inequality and banking deregulation, you are defending things that can lead to social unrest and Communism.”

And you prefer a more direct route - an armed coup.

Admit it Rio - you are a gun owning, Che Guevara worshiping self professed Maoist committed to armed struggle. How many guns do you own Rio?

Fess up my little commie Rio - how many guns do you own?

Let me ask you this Rio - do you own guns? More than one?

Dumb question. I thought you said you knew something about Brazilian laws.

(SF Bay Area promotes the exact same things that Karl Marx said would destroy capitalism. Wouldn’t a hidden mole Communist do that?)

How about your little commie bastard present of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff.

Were your hands shaking when you wrote that? She’s not my President. But here’s a Forbes article on her.

Power Woman Dilma Rousseff: Brazil’s Entrepreneur-In-Chief

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexisglick/2012/08/22/dilma-rousseff-brazil-entrepreneurs-power-women/

“We are wagering,” smiles Rousseff, sitting in her minimalist, art-filled office in the Presidential Palace in Brasília as she recalls that conversation, “that people will be able to stand up on their own feet and walk by themselves.”

Her wager–Brazil’s wager–is on entrepreneurship. The past two decades have been formidable for her country: curbing inflation (by creating the real and pegging it to the U.S. dollar), privatization (notably, the state-owned telecommunication and mining companies) and a commodities boom (soybean and iron ore). Twenty years ago Brazil’s GDP was at $358 billion and ranked 11th in the world; today, at $2.5 trillion, it’s between sixth and eighth, depending on who’s counting. No other BRIC balances democracy and widespread wealth nearly as well. Half of Brazil’s population now occupies the middle class–their output alone surpasses the entire economy of neighboring Argentina. “There has been a shift, a change in the way we are [perceived],” says Rousseff, 64, whose position atop this shift now makes her the third most powerful woman in the world, according to FORBES’ annual rankings.

Brazil has become one of the most entrepreneurial countries in the world, with one in four adults self-employed in some manner. Small businesses create two out of three jobs in Rousseff’s private sector–Brazil’s unemployment rate is an envious 5.8%–and 49% of entrepreneurs with companies less than 42 months old are women; the global average is 37%. In bustling São Paulo alone, 1.8 million small-business owners ply their trades, wares and ideas.

And you prefer a more direct route - an armed coup.

And you beat your wife with nunchucks and have unprotected sex with 80 year old Communists.

(How old are you 12?)

Dear SF Bay Area, you like to talk about FREE MARKET, but where you see free market, in what country?
There was a guy named NIkola Tesla in U.S. who was ready to provide Free Energy in this country at the binging of 20 th century, he even created wireless power plant, but Rockefellers and Rothschilds did not let him to continue his inventions because they might go bankrupt… His inventions could have bring real socialism to this country but “”Upper class” could not let it happen…
Following link is interesting view on Free Market in U.S and Nikola Tesla’s life:

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7231

Oh Rio - so you deny being a gun owner? You never had a collection of guns? Is that right

Liar!

Oh Rio - you a liar boy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilma_Rousseff

Communist in Chief of Brazil.

Just posted a URL that proves you are a liar Rio. Dilma is a communist in chief of Brazil. It’ll post in a bit. Back at you.

You much do you get paid to post communist propaganda?

Tell us about the gun collection Rio?

You never had a collection of guns? Is that right Liar!

You’re the liar. I never said I had never owned guns where I could legally own them. Dude, I was born in the Mid-West. I have medals in marksmanship. I am a former member of the NRA.

Practically, I can’t own a legal gun in Brazil which is a law I don’t agree with.

But your logic is flawed per usual. It’s like saying because you owned a buck knife once you want to stab your neighbor.

You are losing it again. And like someone else mentioned, you are a bit of a masochist.

Oh Rio - you liar I just found a bunch of posts about your gun collection to little commie. I guess you used to fantasize about being a little revolutionary didn’t you? Liar!

“Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2010-02-24 15:45:47

I miss my guns…
(Comments wont nest below this level) ”

And I already posted URLs were you stated that you supported:

Government control of the means of production
Wealth redistribution
Taking of personal property
Land reform
Nationalization
And the whole Marxist platform

you liar I just found a bunch of posts about your gun collection to little commie.

But you are lying. Post where I said I never owned guns. I support the 2nd amendment. You are losing it dude.

Anything else you want to lie about today Rio?

“Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2011-03-29 15:10:00

I like guns, have owned a bunch and competed and I never felt that restricted with any of those laws. There has to be some.

But wait. Come to think of it, in California I could only buy one pistol per month, no 30 round magazines and no AK-47’s and that really did cramp my style.”

So now that we have the first question answered about your gun collection and your wet dream to be a revolutionary…

Why don’t you tell us how much you get paid to post your communist drivel. Huh?

I’m looking for career options abroad. Maybe I could live in a country run by a Maoist and get paid to post communist propaganda all day from my arm chair on sites like this just like you Rio.

So how much does it pay?

Do you enjoy it?

Does your back side get sore?

Because clearly this is your only means of support - you are here 24/7.

Because clearly this is your only means of support - you are here 24/7.

Says the guy with a pre-sumarized obscure study to ‘prove’ his every talking point, and the time to go through Rio’s back posts in a ridiculous quest to show that he ‘owns guns’.

and the time to go through Rio’s back posts in a ridiculous quest to show that he ‘owns guns’.

He has his interns do that.

(They also better laugh at his jokes)

How much you getting paid Rio?

How much you getting paid Rio?

gotta be minimum wage.

What’s minimum wage in Brazil?

Do they include free caipirinha at least?

Better watch out for those Rio -they’ll rot your liver. Damn those things gave me a bad hangover down there.

“get paid working from home”

Was that the ad you responded to Rio?

Or is it like one of those call centers in India that you sit at all day.

I guess if you are no good at peddling Viagr* from a call center they demote you to peddling commie propaganda on the Internet.

How much you getting paid Rio?

I’m paid no money by anyone to post. But maybe I’m “paid” in gratitude and possibly admiration by the real defenders of Capitalism and the American way of life- the people who see the big picture.

In contrast, you SF Bay Area, defend what Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism and lead to Communism - gross wealth inequality.

So why wouldn’t the Communists pay someone like you who actively defends policies that Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism? What you defend has put the future of Capitalism in danger. Would that not be in the Communist’s interest?

The web brigades (Russian: Веб-бригады )[1] are alleged online teams of commentators linked to Russian security services that participate in political blogs and Internet forums to promote disinformation and prevent free discussions of undesirable subjects.

The 50 Cent Party are Internet commentators (网络评论员, 網絡評論員, wǎnglù pínglùn yuán) hired by the government of the People’s Republic of China (both local and central) or the Communist Party to post comments favorable towards party policies in an attempt to shape and sway public opinion on various Internet message boards.[1][2] The commentators are said to be paid fifty cent of RMB for every post that either steers a discussion away from anti-party or sensitive content on domestic websites, bulletin board systems, and chatrooms,[3] or that advances the Communist party line.

Oh by the way Rio,

Did you tell everyone here about your new girlfriend Dilma Rousseff? How she’s killing American Indians in the Amazon and killing off native species to put up massive damns? And how she is using slave labor and not paying the workers living wages to build it? No union protestors are tolerated.

Kind of sucks to be a central planning commie. It sounds so fund until you get the job and realize you’ve run out of other people’s money to pay wages and you don’t know what the heck you are doing.

So sad. Say hi to Dilma for me

Best regards,

SF Bay Area

The 50 Cent Party

maybe we could hijack them like some guys did to the ‘vote against walker’ bus convoy that drove into wisconsin from other states. there was a guy on the cell phone riding in the bus that said he was going to vote for walker instead of against him. he was getting free meals and hotel stay. all he did was them he would vote against walker and they shipped him off. he said he thought there were other like him on the bus but he didn’t know for sure. he was stickin’ it to the commies and they didn’t even know it.

The 50 Cent Party are Internet commentators

Like this?

Caution, bad words.

50 Cent - I Get Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO22Z0T3qPE

To a socialist, all crony capitalism looks like organized crime.

TJ

I’m in.

I’m all in.

Sounds like good time.

Yes that’s correct Rio - I advocate those little sprinkles on the Krispie Cream Donuts over your twinkies any day of the week.

If that’s promoting Karl Marx and destroying capitalism than I guess I’m busted.

Down with the twinkie! Justice for little sprinkles on the Krispie Cream Donuts!

Sprinkle Power!!!

Did you tell everyone here about your new girlfriend Dilma Rousseff?

SF Bay Area,
I get a kick on how you start acting like a 12 year old when riled up. And it’s usually right before you flip-out.

(At least when you flip-out, you stay away for about a month so people can almost forget your flip-out)

Sounds like good time.

you’re doing great. never give up the fight to the commie peanut gallery.

So Rio - were do we go to join your propaganda group? TJ and I are all in?

Is it RevLeft?

“you’re doing great.” Romney’s campaign manager Nov. 5, 2012.

OK I found a few in Rio:

Brazil

Rio de Janeiro
CLAVE
Coletivo de Estudos Anarquistas Domingos Passos
Federação Anarquista do Rio de Janeiro (FARJ)

Is it one of these Rio? We want to join please.

TJ and I are all in?

yes, it would be no tribble at all. the leftist crap is easy.

TJ and I are all in over your heads as usual.

“TJ and I are all in?”

Interesting word choice!

it would be no tribble at all. the leftist crap is easy but English is hard.

Rio - is it CLAVE, FARJ or nodo50? Those are the tree internet posting groups I found in Rio, Brazil.

Those are the tree internet posting groups I found in Rio, Brazil.

Why do they have to post in trees?

What’s your online socialist group Rio? Do you have a handle on there? TJ and I want to get organized with the revolution.

Oh and that admiration you get paid in - does that include hot commie chicks? Because I’m not to into that Dilma - she’s kind of a cow. And don’t they get tickled by you big Castro-beard? What about that green army uniform you guys wear - how often is that cleaned? When I was a student at Berkeley I think it was every six months - started to smell like that smelly French cheese. But then the girl in Berkeley all had mustaches and hairy legs. Hmmm… Do they have lipstick liberals?

Again SF Bay Area:
Why wouldn’t Communists pay someone like you who actively promotes policies that Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism? Would that not be in the Communist’s interest?

You promote what Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism and lead to Communism - gross wealth inequality.

The ANSWER Coalition and the Party for Socialism and Liberation are both really active in California, mostly in San Fransisco and Los Angeles.

You were from
LA?

Southern Californian Anarchist Federation
A decentralized, regional network of anarchist collectives in Southern California

https://www.facebook.com/socialistischeomroep.vereniging

So English isn’t your first language Rio?

“you’re doing great.” Romney’s campaign manager Nov. 5, 2012.

Emperor’s new clothes modeling show — Nov. 6, 2012

http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/

Again SF Bay Area:
Why wouldn’t Communists pay someone like you who actively promotes policies that Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism?

marx was an evil, demented moron. why would anyone listen to that turd?

but English is hard.

not as hard as real economics is for a race baiting commie.

You promote what Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism and lead to Communism - gross wealth inequality.

marx doesn’t know what destroys capitalism. figures you’d follow what that moron said.

LOL, I guess punctuation is hard too huh tj?

SF Bay Area,
I get a kick on how you start acting like a 12 year old when riled up. And it’s usually right before you flip-out.

i get a kick out of how you think communism is capitalism and visa-versa.

you communists try to twist forward into backward. up into down. black into white. only true morons listen to your drivel.

TJ is just trying out his new “libtard” persona. We’re all in Rio.

Can you answer my questions above regarding chicks, uniform and facial hair?

Romney’s campaign manager Nov. 5, 2012.

the communist won with voter fraud.

marx doesn’t know what destroys capitalism.

Many noted economists agree with him. SF Bay Area and you tj, promote policies that destroy Capitalism. I promote policies that protect Capitalism.

Nouriel ‘Dr. Doom’ Roubini: Karl Marx Was Right - Unregulated Capitalism Leads to Crises

http://www.ibtimes.com/nouriel-dr-doom-roubini-karl-marx-was-right-unregulated-capitalism-leads-crises-212340

The Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protest movement in the United States represents the arrival of a global wave of social and political turmoil. According to economist Nouriel Dr. Doom Roubini, this turmoil stems largely from high unemployment and stagnant wages, and it was triggered by the failure of laissez-faire, unregulated capitalism and free markets.

Roubini said social unrest and demonstrations are all being driven by the same thing, a crisis period for capitalism itself. The current crisis is the global economy’s most serious crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s — and it was triggered by financial intermediation run amok and a destructive redistribution of income and wealth, from labor to capital.

The nations that have recently seen social unrest and political demonstrations are all driven by the same issues and tensions: growing inequality, poverty, unemployment, and hopelessness. Even the world’s middle classes are feeling the squeeze of falling incomes and opportunities, Roubini said.

While these protests have no unified theme, they express in different ways the serious concerns of the world’s working and middle classes about their prospects in the face of the growing concentration of power among economic, financial, and political elites, Roubini wrote in an op-ed column for Reuters.

Geez this revleft site is the cat’s meow TJ. I got these gems:

“History knows no greater display of courage than that shown by the people of the Soviet Union.”
Henry L. Stimson: U.S. Secretary of War
Take the word “fear” and the phrase “for what, it’s not going to change anything” out of your minds and take control of your future.
Juan Jose Fernandez, Asturias
Governments crack and systems fall, cuz unity is powerfull….Lights go out! Walls come tumbling down!…….P. Weller.
“Philosiphy is to the real world as mastubation is to sex” A guy named Marx

That’s the elite there - ready for central planning 101.

LOL, I guess punctuation is hard too huh tj?

i guess punctuation, spelling and grammar are the only arguments you’ve got, right comrade?

So Rio - how many web sites do you work on simultaneously?

I read this type of stuff all over the commie forums:

“I propose this thread to all other Marxists who are interested.
We can use it as a hub to come up with ideas related to Practice and Propaganda and how to achieve those aims.
We can combine our Ideas here to heighten Class Consciousnesses among Laborers.”

Posted by a user named “Comrades Unite!”

No I’m not kidding.

So it must really suck Rio - I mean you guys want to save the Laborers so bad and raise their consciousness.

And they don’t give a horse’s putoot.

Let it out Rio - you can talk to us. I know there must be a lot of pain inside.

I can always tell when I’ve said something “bad” because my comments get blocked for like two hours.

i guess punctuation, spelling and grammar are the only arguments you’ve got, right comrade?

That makes no sense. Look at the lunacy from SF Bay Area today.

If spelling and grammar were the only arguments I had, SF Bay Area would not be so unhinged today. He would not be telling lies saying that I said that I had never owned guns before.

SF Bay area is not lying and becoming unhinged because I made grammar comments. The fact is, my arguments are a coherent and logical threat to his narrow-minded view of the world.

And your snarling response are not simply because of grammar comments either.

Rio - have you read Marx’s works from when he was a kid?

Not sure what his parents did to him - but he had a pit bulls worth of anger. All this demonic self aggrandizement and desire to destroy the world. Interesting stuff.

TJ - let’s see if we can keep Rio up for at least 72 hours straight.

I wonder if it’s like those call centers in India. You know they aren’t allowed to hang up on you? So if you just keep talking and talking they can’t hang up. Maybe Rio isn’t allowed to “hang up.”

You’re right Rio - Marx was correct and those capitalist are too narrow minded to see it. Let it out brother. We’re here for you.

Many noted economists agree with him.

yeah, keynesians. keynesians have been taught that 2+2=5 and they run around preaching it. keynesians are like minstrels. all they’ve got is a song and dance.

and roubini doesn’t know economics. people follow that goon because he’s a gloom and doomer.

Oh Rio - where can I get a copy of the cookbook? You know the one? The Anarchist one? I heard I need it to crack sculls of those narrow minded capitalist like Dilma did. Didn’t she use that?

Do you think I should get a black market going in guns like Dilma did? Steal some cars? Rob banks? Kidnap some Ambassadors?

She is just such a little role model.

Bless her heard.

If spelling and grammar were the only arguments I had, SF Bay Area would not be so unhinged today.

he’s not unhinged, you just can’t stand to hear truth and logic, can you comrade?

The fact is, my arguments are a coherent and logical threat to his narrow-minded view of the world.

BWAHAHAHA!! you seldom ever make a logical argument! when i said commie obama was a dangerous man for our country, you jumped into race baiting from the get go.

race baiting and punctuation are your main arguments against me.

yes i don’t use caps, and it pleases me no end that it bothers you.

And all those nasty narrow minded capitalist. I’m so glad you sent them to the gulag and killing field to fix that wealth inequality thingy. What was it 160 million you killed? Oh yeah now I remember. You don’t need to kill a capitalist if you don’t feed them in the gulag. HeHeHe You just wait until they go blind and let them out in the snow to die. Weeee!

I’m really enjoying being a commie! Please invite TJ and myself to your online chat group.

And your snarling response are not simply because of grammar comments either.

hey english major, wanna ’splain what your above comment means?

TJ - let’s see if we can keep Rio up for at least 72 hours straight.

haha! you might have to take the night shift!

Darn my comment about Goulart must have been naughty because they got eaten by the filter again. Rio - you’ll stay up right? Pajama party? Don’t drink to much buddy!

Anyway it was about that narrow minded capitalist President Johnson and how he took out that Commie President of Brazil Goulart with the CIA. Good times for all! God bless his heart.

So it must really suck Rio - I mean you guys want to save the Laborers so bad and raise their consciousness.

he doesn’t understand that he’s hurting the workers that he thinks he’s helping. at least i’m giving him credit for not understanding. it would be terrible if he knew he was hurting people.

Everything I’m posting is getting blocked.

your posts will eventually show up.

Good work TJ - we can “friend” Rio again tomorrow buddy.

actually, i’d rather go on to something else. we’ll never change a communist’s mind.

we could talk about how we think the crisis will unfold. it’ll do no good to talk about what should be done, because we’ve got nothing but keynesians in power now. they’ll never do the right thing.

it won’t do any good to talk about ‘when’ it will happen either. no one could possibly know when with any meaningful degree of accuracy.

but we might talk about what signals we might see, or whether it will be a slow unraveling or a sudden ‘pop’. or maybe a combination of the two.

or maybe the drive by sniping from the commies will make it not worth the trouble..

Holy Wow.
Another frothing meltdown, documented right here in real time. Rio’s right. All evidence points to this being a commie double agent intent on making commie antagonists sound completely unhinged.

Cool.

Get a bunker, guys.

‘Another frothing meltdown’

You didn’t see what I stopped moderating after I got fed up with it. I’m thinking some people are gonna get banned tomorrow, and just so everyone knows, I don’t care who you are or how long you’ve been posting. When you start making my blog a mess, you are gone. Consider yourselves warned; stop the personal attacks.

What’s my dad doing with a man in a cape? What’s a man in a cape doing with my dad?

-George Costanza

Or you could call mullet headed Ted Nugent and ask “Hey Dude, s’up man?”

I trust a guy with a mullet a lot more than a Wall Street suit.

Why do you associate Ted Nugent with the left?

He is a diehard neocon. DIEHARD.

But you knew that, right?

ecofeco - you a funny man. Yes I know ‘ol Ted is a neocon. But the guy in the video they posted as “evidence” that the pension was being raided looked just like ‘old Ted with the mullet and all.

And I’m no neocon. Not by a long shot. My economics is from Austria - thank you. We don’t blow bubbles.

“To call someone a socialist for demanding that business OBEY THE LAWS shows us your true colors and is the very definition of criminal accessory.”

I’m calling Rio a socialist because his is one - he’s a gun owning revolutionary commie who can’t wait to central plan our lives from his arm chair in Brazil. Gosh knows we need guys like Rio who doesn’t even know what a 10Q SEC filing is to run the country.

alpha-sloth and Rio you are a paid for communist shill or you make a living somehow off of their socialist creed I’m sure of it.

I could post evidence publish by the lord himself and you’d call foul.

Rochelle is a highly respected deep thinker. And one of his main publishers is a self proclaimed Obama supporters and democrat - Bloomberg.

alpha-sloth and Rio you are a paid for communist shill or you make a living somehow off of their socialist creed I’m sure of it.

You’re the Oligarch Defender Troll.

No I’m an Austrian Economics Defender Troll. Look it up you might learn something.

No I’m an Austrian Economics Defender Troll

Not really SF Bay Area: You are a promoter of economic situations that can lead to social unrest and Communism.

You are akin to the defenders of Tsar Nicholas of Russia and the economic system of 1917.

You do America no favors and your type are destroying it.

No I’m an Austrian Economics Defender Troll.

Concern troll. But always a reliable defender of the .1% oligarchy.

Yep, Marie Antoinette didn’t get it either.

“Not really SF Bay Area: You are a promoter of economic situations that can lead to social unrest and Communism.”

Yes Rio I promote the downfall of the Twinkie factory because they got their backside handed to them by Krispy Kreme!!!

OMG!

Now communism will rule and social unrest will be unleashed!

Now the workers will all be eating Krispy Kreme Pumkin Spice Latte and eating Krispy Kreme jelly filled donuts with little sprinkles!

No longer will the workers get their gray twinkies. Oh lord capitalism is over!!!

I admit it! I hail to Krispy Kreme!

BwHaHaHaHa!

You are such a propaganda loser.

BwHaHaHaHa!

You are such a propaganda loser.

It’s funny when you have your little melt downs.

(SF Bay Area defends economic situations that can lead to Communism)

“It’s funny when you have your little melt downs.”

Everyday Rio you use the same old stale propaganda tools straight from the text books. Everyday I call you on them. Accusing you opponent of having a meltdown is classic textbook propaganda and you continue to reuse it everyday because you have nothing to offer.

“(SF Bay Area defends economic situations that can lead to Communism)”

Yes, I defend Krispy Kreme Pumkin Spice Latte and eating Krispy Kreme jelly filled donuts with little sprinkles over twinkies. That will surely lead to communism!

Another propaganda rant - trying to frame your opponent in positions they never supported.

You got nothing Rio. Just the same old parlor tricks use by every Marxist. I know you well.

How many guns do you own you little commie?

How many guns Rio?

How much money do you make off of these posts? Well I guess you are a capitalist after all. You get paid to spread Marxist drivel - your failed system - face buddy - Marxism was deep sixed.

Why not respond to my post about your beloved communist president? Don’t want the cat out of the bag?

I know who you are.

I know who you are.

Your think tank’s worst nightmare?

You’re clueless, SF, but like cabana boy and ADD Dan, you are also a masochist.

Your think tank’s worst nightmare?

Fortunately, a right-wing think tank is an oxymoron.

As we are seeing.

Rio - “you must have a think tank you must have a whole crew there is no way you could know what the profit and loss is for a company.”

I’m going to start calling you “I’ve never heard of a 10Q SEC filing and have no clue how to find one Rio.”

It’s kind of a long name but I think it kind of captures you deer in the headlights self.

“I’ve never heard of a 10Q SEC filing and have no clue how to find one Rio.”

I’ve read many. I just don’t have interns like you putting them together in your posts.

“I’ve never heard of a 10Q SEC filing and have no clue how to find one Rio.”

Then you are indeed clueless. Your “business” is probably a Popsicle stand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_and_Exchange_Commission_Form_10-Q

“Form 10-Q, (also known as a 10-Q or 10Q) is a quarterly report mandated by the United States federal Securities and Exchange Commission, to be filed by publicly traded corporations.”

Oh, and by the way Mr. “Businessman” here is where you can find them:

http://www.sec.gov/edgar.shtml

mathguy good arguments - I’ll give you credit for being logical and not using propaganda. But I’ll disagree because I actually looked this up and found the wages offered to bakers at five *U.S.* based competitors and the wages were much lower in all cases. I’ll see if I can find the numbers. Still I do see merit in your objection but if you look at the data it isn’t the case.

Wages for bakers in the U.S. for Hostess’s competitors:

Average Salary Per Hour

Average Salary Per Year

Dunkin’ Donuts

$11.00

$22,000

Einstein Bros. Bagels

$10.50

$21,000

Krispy Kreme

$11.50

$23,000

Panera Bread

$11.75

$23,500

Tim Hortons

$11.75

$23,500

News flash: Non-union bakers (who must compete with illegal aliens for jobs) make less than union bakers.

This proves it was good that Hostess was mismanaged and looted into bankruptcy by its execs.

But I’ll disagree because I actually looked this up and found the wages offered…..

You “looked it up” or your paid staff “looked it up”? I am suspicious. Your rapid-fire data posts such as the one above often appear to be written by a committee.

SF Bay Area: Koch Brothers Ministry of Propaganda and defenders of a system that can lead to Communism.

You “looked it up” or your paid staff “looked it up”? I am suspicious. Your rapid-fire data posts such as the one above often appear to be written by a committee.

Nailed it. He’s got an obscure paper or study for every issue, always immediately ready and fully studied by him already, with all the talking points lined up. When he’s not busting his butt running his super-successful business.

He’s an Oligarch Defender Troll.

“You “looked it up” or your paid staff “looked it up”? I am suspicious. Your rapid-fire data posts such as the one above often appear to be written by a committee. ”

I guess running a business you learn how to use the SEC’s web site and read a 10Q statement. And running a business helps you know how to look up prevailing wages so you know how much to offer in salaries to your employees. See these are things you need to do - ***understand market prices.***

This just proves Rio that you commies that are all ready to take over via an armed coup and tell the rest of us how to do everything via central planning don’t have a single clue how the real world of industry works.

This just proves Rio that you commies

You don’t get it. You are the Commie supporter. I am the defender of Capitalism.

Karl Marx, argued that globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct.

You defend a system of unchecked globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital.

You defend what Karl Marx said was a threat to Capitalism.
I defend Capitalism from what Karl Marx knew threatened Capitalism and could lead to Communism.

running a business

I owned and ran successful businesses for years but I don’t have a propaganda staff like I think you do. Do you work for the Koch Brothers or the American Communist Party?

Nailed it. He’s got an obscure paper or study for every issue, always immediately ready and fully studied by him already, with all the talking points lined up. When he’s not busting his butt running his super-successful business.

Yep. I just can’t figure out if SF is working for the Koch Brothers or the American Communist Party. (Or Iran?)

Whoever SF Bay Area might be working for supports economic situations detrimental to Capitalism and America.

SF Bay Area supports economic situations that Karl Marx said would destroy Capitalism.

How much do you get paid to post your Marxist Drivel?

How many guns do you own?

Yes Yes Rio I promote the downfall of the Twinkie factory because they got their backside handed to them by Krispy Kreme!!!

OMG!

Now communism will rule and social unrest will be unleashed!

Now the workers will all be eating Krispy Kreme Pumkin Spice Latte and eating Krispy Kreme jelly filled donuts with little sprinkles!

No longer will the workers get their gray twinkies. Oh lord capitalism is over!!!

I admit it! I hail to Krispy Kreme!

“You know, it’s entirely possible that the union guys decided that they were going to get screwed no matter what, and decided that a “strike” vote was the best way to insure that the vampire squid-types took a screwing too.”

Sometimes when you don’t give a screw you get a screw!

My dad mourned the loss of Olds and Pontiac. He especially loved his Oldsmobiles.

The union guys probably realized they had a better chance of getting at least some of their pension money if the company were liquidated now, as opposed to none of it after the execs were through restructuring/draining it.

And the Internet put printed Scientific Journals out of business. Gosh darn that free market and capitalism are killing us! All those jobs lost! Shutdown the Internet!!!

That is really how silly you sounds. Entrepreneurs come up with better services and goods and and new companies take over from old companies. And we now have more employment and better wages that we’ve ever had. Wages are up 36% over the last 40 years in real inflation adjusted terms.

Compare that to the USSR that had a GDP just a bit larger than the state of Georgia. Oh yeah the central planers will save us all!!!

It’s good that Hostess went broke while being mismanaged and looted by its executives, because twinkies are bad for you.

Frankly I think most Americans would rather eat better quality food. I can’t even remember the last time I ate “white bread” like Wonder!”

works in plumbing projects use it to soak up and excess water in pipes while glue dries, turn water on and your plug of wonder bread dissolves.

but whatever you do don’t eat it

Quick Search of the KRISPY KREME DOUGHNUTS INC 10Q filing on sec.gov Edgar Database:

You and your staff seem to come up with a lot of “quick searches”, binders of “data”, overly long rapid posts and self-serving predictable rewritten history.

Wages are up 36% over the last 40 years in real inflation adjusted terms.

Maybe in BS inflation numbers.

U.S. Standard of Living Has Fallen More Than 50%: Opinion

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11480568/1/us-standard-of-living-has-fallen-more-than-50-opinion.html

On several occasions, I have glibly referred to how it now takes two spouses working to equal the wages of a one-income family of 40 years ago. Unfortunately, that is now an understatement. In fact, Western wages have plummeted so low that a two-income family is now (on average) 15% poorer than a one-income family of 40 years ago.

Using the year 2000 as the numerical base from which to “zero” all of the numbers, real wages peaked in 1970 at around $20/hour. Today the average worker makes $8.50/hour — more than 57% less than in 1970. And since the average wage directly determines the standard of living of our society, we can see that the average standard of living in the U.S. has plummeted by over 57% over a span of 40 years.

There are no “tricks” here. Indeed, all of the tricks are used by our governments. The green line shows average wages, discounted by inflation calculated with the same methodology for all 40 years. Obviously that is the only way in which we can compare any data over time: through applying identical parameters to it each year.

Then we have the blue line: showing wage data discounted with our “official” inflation rate. The problem? The methodology used by our governments to calculate inflation in 1975 was different from the method they used in 1985, which was different than the method they used in 1995, which was different than the method they used in 2005.

LOL

Now that is funny!

Bravo! You figured it out!

Once you get to liquidation stronger hands can bid for the assets and the labor and make better use of them both.

That story fascinates me, because it implies that almost any mortgage-holder could quit paying and never get foreclosed on, if they fight hard and smart enough.

“99% of the houses I’ve seen being built in the last 20 years are over twice the size of what the average family “needed” a generation earlier.”

When I moved down here in the early eighties I was really impressed with the houses on Palm Beach. The Kennedy place etc.

Now, my ex DBLL who is a town worker lives in a place with his family that was built in 2003-2004 and makes what was the Palm Beach Kennedy winter home look like a POS.

“you can’t simply opt out of paying for housing…”

But you sure can volunteer to borrow a massive amount to buy a depreciating shack. Correct Housing Hooker?

“99% of the houses I’ve seen being built in the last 20 years are over twice the size of what the average family “needed” a generation earlier. Why do you suppose that is?”

Most new construction over the past twenty years has largely ignored the first time buyers because they often lack capitol, and they are poorly paid compared to previous generations. The real money is catering to homeowners who rode the inflation wave, and they’re ready to “move-up.” Follow the money.

“The Kennedy place etc.”

I thought the Kennedys lived modest lives of necessity and gave the rest to charity.

“99% of the houses I’ve seen being built in the last 20 years are over twice the size of what the average family “needed” a generation earlier. Why do you suppose that is?”

To keep all of one’s stuff.

My grandson was given more toys in his first 5 years than I had during all of my childhood. I remember saving my allowance for weeks to buy a 64 set of crayons.

Renters are not immune from house prices, p-bear. Someone has to pay those mortgages and/or construction costs.

Blue, my original point is that I have to pay for housing in one form or another, whether I live in a “necessary” 1-bed flat or the Biltmore Estate. I never have to buy a tulip — in fact I’m not sure if I’ve ever bought a tulip in my life. But I’ve bought housing for over 20 years.

In 5-7 years, that 1-bed flat is going to cost the same as my SFH will. Not exactly environmentally friendly to live in an SFH, I suppose, but financially it’s a wiser decision.

As for the size of houses going up in the past 20 years, what do I care? My house is over 50 years old. That’s two generations ago.

Someone has to pay those mortgages and/or construction costs.”

They’re fixed costs. Use your head.

my original point is that I have to pay for housing in one form or another

And you chose to pay the more costly form. We know it. You know it deep down.

In 5-7 years, that 1-bed flat is going to cost the same as my SFH will. Not exactly environmentally friendly to live in an SFH, I suppose, but financially it’s a wiser decision.

Prices are falling and so are rents. You locked into an inflated price and then doubled it by borrowing.

As for the size of houses going up in the past 20 years, what do I care? My house is over 50 years old. That’s two generations ago.

In another 20 years, your house will be worth even less than it is now.

Show me a graph where rents are falling IN MY AREA. Here’s a graph where rents are RISING in my area:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/MD-Silver-Spring.html
http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/MD-Rockville.html
http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/MD-Wheaton.html <– this one is a little jumpy because there are fewer data points.
http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/MD-Gaithersburg-Pricing.html

It’s been posted time and time again. You choose to ignore it. I’m not posting it again. Use the search box.

Pimpster, you are truly a one-note player.

“over 50 years old. That’s two generations ago….”

Tell me about it.

“In 5-7 years, that 1-bed flat is going to cost the same as my SFH will.”

That really is the key idea right there. You need that to be true and stay true. Falling off the exponential growth curve must be impossible.

Maryland sucks. Whether you rent or buy, you’re paying too much.

“Pimpster, you are truly a one-note player.”

And in walks a pinhead.

Rent is free for the Pimp, is all I can figure.

Haven’t we already ascertained that he owns 3 houses and thinks that prices are going to collapse but isn’t selling?

“Rent is free for the Pimp, is all I can figure.”

We know how you figure. You demand answers and when you see them, you run. So you keep on figuring my little debtor. And just remember, as it is with the Housing Hooker, so it is with you.

“Housing is indeed different than tulips, as so far as I know there was no rental market for tulip bulbs .”

Were there section 8 tulips? Were there tulip stamps? Teaser rate tulip loans? Could you get a tulip equity loan? Were there Tulipors that made a commission on tulip sales?

Were there section 8 tulips? Were there tulip stamps? Teaser rate tulip loans? Could you get a tulip equity loan? Were there Tulipors that made a commission on tulip sales?

Interestingly, the free market blew a huge, absurd tulip bubble without any of the things that supposedly caused ours.

Blows a lot of your claims out of the water, eh?

Jethro For President, 2016

“the things that supposedly caused ours…”

Good point. There are always things happening coincidentally with a mania. The difference between cause and enabling is hard to see sometimes.

“Renters are not immune from house prices, p-bear.”

You got it backwards: House prices are not immune from renters.

Everyone needs a place to live, but as more households choose to rent, demand is sucked away from the owner-occupied market, driving down prices.

With a plethora of reasons to rent, including a lower cost of living for comparable living space compared to owning, flexibility to relocate without worrying about whether your mortgage is underwater, and a plethora of new investor-owned rental housing threatening to become available and drive down rents, house prices have never been less immune to renters.

“Interestingly, the free market blew a huge, absurd tulip bubble without any of the things that supposedly caused ours.

Blows a lot of your claims out of the water, eh?”

It only appears thus for someone who is incapable of logical thought.

Hostess was a self-made victim of their management’s failure to adapt their product line to an increasingly health-conscious society.

Of course, it’s the workers who get the shaft, as the management will still retire fat, dumb and happy, despite collapse of the company…

hostess was a victim of a more health conscious society.

Correct. Their sales have been in free fall for some time. Last year they fell 11%.

Supply and demand applies to labor too.

No, it doesn’t. If the labor is hard to get, companies will “do without”, often with detrimental results. Containing wages is job #1 at just about every firm.

A fun anecdote from my HP days. Our group was trying to “steal” a couple of “Architect” level guys from another firm. So what did our management do to sweeten the deal? Why, offer them less pay than at their current job! We found out because of a leaked email. Our management was really pizzed about that leak, which was a huge morale killer.

Well, we’ve been informed here that never actually got off the ground.

South Korea has a higher top rate (38%), than we do. Germany’s is higher, too.

What about deductions?

BTW, but our combined rate is the highest in the world at over 39% and we tax overseas earnings whenthey return.

money.cnn.com/2012/03/27/pf/taxes/corporate-taxes/index.htm

This same article shows Germany’s rate much less than the U.S. Nice try Alpha to mislead the board.

Finally, I found South Korea’s on http://www.nair-co.com:

South Korea to Reduce Corporate Tax for Mid-sized Companies

(Sunnyvale, CA) - The Korean government announced plans to reduce the top marginal corporate tax rate to 20% for companies with tax bases between 200 million won and 50 billion won in 2012.

However, the current corporate tax rate of 22% (effective rate of 24.2% including resident surtax) will be maintained for companies with a tax base of over 50 billion won.

According to the announcement, the new middle tax bracket was proposed to achieve financial stability and improve business benefits for the small and medium sized businesses.

So Alpha just where did you get your numbers?

“Yes, when we had no competition in the world.”

That expansion of the middle class lasted well into the 70s. How long do you think that Europe’s manufacturing capacity was broken? 30 years?

Yes, and we did not have that much Asian competition until then also. Europe had to build its economy from scratch and many of their best scientists had fled to the U.S. both before and after the war. You don’t think the impact of having your industrial base destroyed does not last at least 30 years? It took the South one hundred years to recover from the Civil War.

So Alpha just where did you get your numbers?

Wikipedia. You’ll find them all here- Germany’s top rate is 45%, S Korea’s 38%, both higher than our 35%. Of course, I’m talking about individual tax rates (’taxing the rich’), not corporate tax rates, which you substituted in order to mislead the board. And yes, when it comes to the corporate tax rate, the amount of deductions is the key, as you point out, which effectively makes ours very low.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

What 35%?

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1249465620080812

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2012/04/10/nearly-30-fortune-500-companies-dodge-taxes-since-2008-report/

Yeah, but The One eats dog meat so we should give the Producers a tax cut.

Quick! We need an Oligarch Defender Troll to post a ’study’ by some think-tank that shows the rich are really somehow paying more taxes than ever, and are nearly broke because of it. And if we lose them, we lose our precious job creators…

It seems odd that 2007 is the last year that data is available.

“Don’t believe anything that comes out of this whitehouse.”

I’m sure this goes without saying, but that should read “any whitehouse”.

Worst. Troll. Ever.

“Worst. Troll. Ever.”

I thought it was one of goon squad’s goofs, but maybe not.

It’s rather tough to appeal to the high ideals of a gang of debt slaves.

…or their masters.

Well, I tried to be part of the solution by staying out of the market for the last 11 years. The houses/condos we could afford were no larger than our apartment and were more expensive than renting when you added taxes and HOA fees.

I also tried to discourage people not to get involved in the mania. Not fun when people thought you were a moron because you contradicted the realwhores.

It is really discouraging to think that some home “owners” around me would be bailed out. There are quite a few Trump wannabes (builders and flippers) who moved into huge mcmansions from working the easy loan system. There are also many who bought big homes and obviously couldn’t afford it. Then there are others who blew their equity living it up. It is a travesty to bailout this irresponsible, greedy behavior while others were living within their means. The bubble financed the purchase of tons of Hummers, Escalades, Caribbean trips, second homes, clothing, eating out, mounds of Chinese-made crap, etc. There is no reason the tax payer should pay for this.

This is not excusing the banks either. Realtors, mortgage brokers, bankers, underwriters, CDO packagers etc. should be fined and/or thrown in jail for any illegal activity.

Fraud from the top down should be prosecuted and stupidity and greed should not be rewarded.

“Fraud from the top down should be prosecuted and stupidity and greed should not be rewarded.”

Truer words were never spoken.

I agree with the sentiment. Unfortunately, the majority of your neighbors disagree with you and voted for business as usual. They didn’t all vote for the same person, but they mostly all voted for the same thing.

“FED Up”

I’ve been posting here so long that I am beginning to see my old handles recycled by others.

Doesn’t matter. What matters is that it was the headline on Drudge. Therefore it matters. We’ve heard four years of liberal excuses for The One’s failed presidency and Real Americans aren’t buying the lies anymore. It’s time to take America back and restore our future!

Christie is Judas to the GOP, paid off with thirty pieces of KFC, to throw the election to The One, with superstorm Sandy as a thinly veiled cover story.

Christie is Judas to the GOP, paid off with thirty pieces of KFC
————
uh…

never mind.

“illegal Mexican voter fraud.”

This.^^^^^^

Keep telling yourself that.

A quick google shows no such thing in the last election reported by any news orgs.

And why, exactly, would they report it?

We have “motor-votor” here in WA, where illegal aliens from another state can trade their out-of-state ID card for a WA driver’s license AND voter’s registration.

No proof-of-citizenship required.

to a state relying on the federal government

What are you smoking this morning ??

I have posted numerous times a study done by Senator Boxer that California receives more from the federal government that it receives. In fact 1.50 for every dollar in taxes for one year. All the studies your side posts are out of date and our before the illegals flooded the state and turned it from a swing state to a deep blue state. You just need to look at my posts from about a week ago.

From Californiabudgetbites.org

Does California Get Its “Fair Share” of Federal Funds?

In his State of the State address, the Governor described the federal government as “part of our budget problem,” claiming that California only gets $0.78 cents back in federal spending for each dollar of taxes paid by California taxpayers. We’ve never been big fans of the debate over whether California and Californians get back in federal dollars as much as they pay in federal taxes. We’re one of the 50 United States and we’re part of a federal system. And the capitol of the federal government is in Washington, DC, not Sacramento. As a result, a disproportionate share of federal dollars are spent in the District of Columbia and nearby Maryland and Virginia. New Mexico, a state cited by the Governor in his speech, receives a large number of federal dollars because it is a small, poor state, but also because it is home to the Sandia and Los Alamos National Laboratories – which receive a large volume of federal funds.

It turns out that that not only is the Governor’s argument flawed from a policy perspective from our point of view, it is also based on seriously flawed data. California Senator Barbara Boxer released an analysis of how much California receives in federal funding that shows that, in fact, the state received more in federal funds in 2009 than state residents paid in taxes. The Boxer memo was posted on John Myers’ Capital Notes blog. Never one to accept someone else’s data without question, we reviewed the data and assumptions behind the data. Our own analysis suggests that California actually receives $1.50 back for each dollar in taxes paid, a figure slightly higher than the Senator’s.

How can the numbers be so different? The Governor’s figure is based on 2005 data and a deeply flawed study by the Tax Foundation. Using figures from 2005 ignores the significant infusion of federal funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) of 2009. The second flaw with the Governor’s data comes from the assumption that all federal expenditures are paid for in the year incurred. This is tantamount to saying that there’s no federal deficit – an assumption that we know to be untrue. The federal government is spending more than it takes in largely due to moneys spent to respond to the “great recession,” as well as the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We strongly believe that there’s a case to be made for federal aid to all states, not just California. With most states facing serious budget shortfalls, there’s reason to fear that another round of state and local government budget cuts could push the nation back into recession or, at a minimum, delay what is already anticipated to be a weak recovery. We hope the Governor will change his tune, join with his fellow governors, and call on Congress and the President to build on the success of the ARRA by providing states additional funds to blunt the impact of budget-balancing efforts.

Finally, if the Governor wants to take a positive step toward ensuring that California receives the funds and the representation in Washington that we deserve, we’d offer a modest suggestion: Support efforts to ensure a “full count” in the 2010 Census. Now that’s an idea we should all be able to agree on.

– Jean Ross

Nice….You Cherry pick the ARRA great rcession year of 2009…

This says different;

Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981 …
taxfoundation.org/…/federal-taxes-paid-vs-federal-spending-received…Oct 19, 2007 – Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005 … (We are currently seeking funding to update this study.) If you would …

And in that year, I wonder if ANY states paid to the Feds more than they got in return…

What a change, California not only does not close it borders to illegals it encourages them.

Last time I checked, Texas was also crawling with illegals.

Both states are 38% Hispanic.

guards with guns

You forgot to specify that they’ll be public labor union goon guards with guns.

“I expect to see a California Berlin Wall go up.”

Governor Brown, tear down this wall.

“…Berlin Wall go up…”

Ich bin ein Californianer.

Just for a touch of comedy and historical perspective, President Kennedy’s comment:
Ich bin ein Berliner was stated poorly in German.
“Ich bin Berliner” would have been correct.

However, adding the definite article made the statement one of a particular product made in Berlin which was a Jelly Donut.

In other words, properly translated from German, Kennedy proudly proclaimed in German: “I’m a Jelly Donut.”
True Story.

In other words, properly translated from German, Kennedy proudly proclaimed in German: “I’m a Jelly Donut.”
True Story.

Not really a true story.

http://www.snopes.com/language/misxlate/berliner.asp

Not really a true story.

A Tampa Diogenes trademark.

“California, Uber Alles!”

- Dead Kennedys 1979

Snopes is wrong. I am sorry. They are such experts. Half my family comes from Germany.
I think they should know what it means.

“Ich bin ein Berliner was stated poorly in German.”

Meine Grossmutter could never quite get her English syntax correct, either.

But didn’t including the definite article ‘ein’ (’a’ in English) make good sense given he was using a German utterance to reach an American electorate? Why frustrate American voters with the vagaries of German grammar?

Well, actually you’re wrong Dio. “A” and “an” are indefinite articles, not definite articles.

“indefinite”

Point taken.

But the gist of what Dio said is correct: “ein” is omitted when a German speaking German says “Ich bin ein Berliner.”

And I inadvertently omitted the /sarc tag.

Texas will be California, circa 1990.

A flood of migrants flooding the employment market, causing massive downward pressure on the pay of native borns.

The “producers” moving from California love Texas, because they can charge the same prices for their products, while avoiding all of those pesky laws (and subsequent costs) about slave labor and environmental pollution.

They are also going to be shocked at the current prevailing wages, which are roughly 25% less than CA avg wages.

And no social services to speak of, contrary to popular myth.

Remember those GWB “mission accomplished” action figures?

They should make one of Obama, with him dressed in kente cloth, kneeling toward Mecca, reading Mao’s “Little Red Book”, and eating a steaming bowl of dog meat.

I know 12 yos who can troll better than this.

It must be my 12 yo humor that makes me chuckle at each one.

Personally I think goon is the resident Howard Stern here. He’s making fun of trolls, while doing a bit of trolling is how I take it…

Wrong.

Contact with dogs is prohibited!

In related news, our local Costco now has halal lambs hanging in the cooler, but a quick google search reveals that this has been going on for a couple of years:

http://www.examiner.com/article/costco-sells-halal-lamb

Interesting how they got an entire building wired to detonate in just six hours, and with all the chaos going on around them at the time….

Im revoking your bomb thrower licence.

I have no license. I’m an illegal, unregulated Everyman bomb thrower exercising my First Amendment rights, courtesy of Ben Jones.

Well, some members of the International Brotherhood of Bomb Throwers local 555 will be waiting in the parking lot to “discuss” this with you.

“When asked what Democrats would do when America inevitably hits its debt ceiling, Reid told reporters, “If it has to be raised, we’ll raise it.”

“It’s as if the US economy is a speeding train heading towards a ravine at 200 mph, and the conductors are arguing about whether they should slow down to 150 or 175.”

Sounds like Harry is leaning twoards 175. I wonder if Harry ever drove his family across the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfmKwgrQzdE - 224k

Submitted by Simon Black

In his farewell address to Congress yesterday, Ron Paul blasted the dangers of what he called ‘Economic Ignorance’:

“Economic ignorance is commonplace. . . Believers in military Keynesianism and domestic Keynesianism continue to desperately promote their failed policies, as the economy languishes in a deep slumber.”

He’s dead right. Around the world, economic ignorance abounds. And perhaps nowhere is this more obvious today than in the senseless prattling over the US ‘Fiscal Cliff’.

Here’s the deal: You may remember the Debt Ceiling debacle of 2011. At the time, the US government was about to breach its debt ceiling, and there was an embarrassing standoff between Congress and President Obama.

As part of their eventual compromise, the debt ceiling increased by $400 billion in August 2011… then again by another $500 billion five weeks later… and finally by another $1.2 TRILLION twenty weeks after that.

In return, President Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011. The law stipulates that, unless another compromise is reached, a series of tax increases and budget cuts will automatically take place on January 1, 2013, including the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the temporary 2% payroll tax holiday, plus new taxes related to Obamacare.

They call this the ‘Fiscal Cliff’ because everyone is terrified that all the budget cuts and new taxes will bring the US economy to its knees once again.

I’ve spent days analyzing the bill… and frankly, it’s a joke. You can read the 200+ pages yourself if you like, but here are the important points–

As we’ve discussed before, US government spending falls into three categories.

1.Discretionary spending is what we normally think of as ‘government.’ It funds everything from the military to Homeland Security to the national parks.
2.Mandatory spending covers all the major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.
3.Then there’s interest on the debt, which is so large they had to make it a special category.

The latter two categories are spent automatically, just like your mortgage payment that gets sucked out of the bank account before you have a chance to spend it. The only thing Congress has a say over is Discretionary Spending. Hence the name.

But here’s the problem– the US fiscal situation is so untenable that the government fails to collect enough tax revenue to cover mandatory spending and debt interest. In Fiscal Year 2011, for example, the US government spent $176 billion MORE on debt interest and mandatory spending than they generated in tax revenue.

In Fiscal Year 2012, which just ended 6 weeks ago, that shortfall increased to $251 billion. This means that they could cut the ENTIRE discretionary budget and still be in the hole by $251 billion.

This is why the Fiscal Cliff is irrelevant. The automatic cuts that are going to take place don’t even begin to address the actual problem; they’re cutting $110 billion from the discretionary budget… yet only $16.9 billion from the mandatory budget.

Given that the entire problem is with mandatory spending, slashing the discretionary budget is pointless. It’s as if the US economy is a speeding train heading towards a ravine at 200 mph, and the conductors are arguing about whether they should slow down to 150 or 175.

Oh, and there’s just one more problem.

The government thinks that they will collect a few hundred billion dollars more in tax revenue when all of these new taxes kick in. Again, wishful thinking.

In the six+ decades since the end of World War II, tax rates in the US have been all over the board. Yet during this time, the US government has only managed to collect roughly 17.7% of GDP in tax revenue.

Conclusion? Increasing taxes won’t increase their total tax revenue. Politicians have tried this for decades. It doesn’t work. The only way to increase tax revenue is for the economy to grow… and higher tax rates do not pave this path to prosperity.

Ron Paul was spot on. Economic ignorance abounds. And all the Talking Heads in the mainstream media blathering away about the Fiscal Cliff are only reinforcing his premise.

Bottom line– the Fiscal Cliff doesn’t matter. The US passed the point of no return a long time ago.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-15/guess-what-they-are-not-cutting-fiscal-cliff - 119k

I agree that is the theory. However for many decades (nearly 100 years?), the ceiling was increased without any fanfare…no one was paying attention. It took politicians using the ceiling as leverage for people to notice, and at the end of the day all people care about is whether they are still going to get their free sh*t.

Look what I found for you!

http://www.chickypoos.com/