Bits Bucket for November 21, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
Happy T-day everyone.
Here is a possible “resolution” (it is really a minor adjustment with a promise for more) of the austerity crisis. Ezra Klein has better access to the Dems, but this is a reporting piece, not an opinion one.
Is this the deal that will end the austerity crisis?
Posted by Ezra Klein on November 20, 2012 at 12:00 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/20/is-this-the-deal-that-will-end-the-austerity-crisis/
I’m off. Taking Amtrak this year instead of flying. All aboard….
In other words, $80 billion now from taxes on the rich, and kick the can until real negotiations take place. Seems like the path of least resistance at the moment.
That deal is what I expect. However, cutting only $160 billion still means about an $850 billion dollar deficit if the White House projections of a 1 trillion dollar deficit were accurate for fiscal 2013. That is a big if. It would only be enough if we have three percent growth and two percent inflation. This five percent growth in nominal gdp would mean that the debt as a percentage of GDP would only be out of line by about $25 billion, the year would essentially be a push. Since I do not see three percent growth, I think we are going to have another year with us digging the hole deeper. You can’t fix a debt crisis but adding more debt.
Roger on the Amtrak, polly. And, speaking of which, I’m pondering an Amtrak/DC trip for Fotoweek 2013. You up for it?
Speaking of Amtrak, I wonder if we will actually get high speed rail now that the big spenders have another four years? If the money again goes to cronies, organizers and union bosses that would be unfortunate.
cronies, organizers and union bosses
That’s what railroads are for, silly.
Little known fact:
Railroads were the first companies to be declared “entities” by the Supreme Court back in 1862, deserving of rights that had up until then, only been reserved for people.
It’s funny, we heard a lot about advancing our infrastructure from the left during the campaigns, you seem to be singing a different tune now. More of the same I guess.
Your post makes no sense.
Thank you.
lol
Happy Thanksgiving all! here’s hoping you’ll share what you made and what you ate after the fact. Quite the education, imagining the delicacies described here vicariously.
I’ve actually always wanted to roast a Christmas goose. Too much Dickens guess.
Anybody have any idea how I would go about procuring a Christmas goose these days? An already dressed and packaged one, I mean. I’m not a real good candidate for DIY in this instance. Got a feeling it’s the sort of thing you have to work up to.
Best to all!
Look in the specialty frozen food section of your major grocery chain, or ask the butcher to special order for you. Vons and WF have them between T-day and Xmas here in CA. I usually buy two and freeze one for New Years.
Be sure to save the fat for French fries during the winter.
BLS announced state by state job creation data yesterday. Under the assumption that:
1. Job creation happens alongside household formation; and
2. Household formation happens alongside vacancy rates falling (absent adding new supply)
What does it mean when:
1. The State of CA has low vacancy rates (about 5% for rental, about 1.4% for owner-occupied)–about as low as they were leading to the bubble, and significantly lower than the US averages;
2. The State of CA is only adding approximately 50,000 housing units per year at the current pace of construction; and
3. In the last 12 months, CA added 295k new jobs?
Answer: We better build more housing units in CA, or the pressure on home prices and rents to rise will increase.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm
they are making it impossible for the avg joe to build in CA. You have to have deep pockets to afford all the permits and fees.
There is just no room in coastal California and, for example, the New York area.
They are built out. So anything you build replaces something else, which means all the income that something else could have earned is part of your cost. To cover it, you’ll probably build more densely, but taller buildings cost more per square foot.
Is anyplace available to create another San Francisco?
I’m talking about the whole state, not just coastal CA. Yhe permits and fees are getting out of control.
“There is just no room in coastal California and, for example, the New York area.
They are built out.”
I’ve visited the New York area, but your equating the state of development in coastal Cali and New York suggests that perhaps you haven’t spend much time out here, as there is really no comparison. The main constraint on further development out here is land use restriction, not a lack of available open space.
I’m guessing you would be amazed to see the amount of unbuilt land in San Diego County destined to be turned into future tract home developments.
Yup. Coastal Commission, major restrictions in places like Ventura, NIMBYism, State AG teaming up with the Sierra Club to sue cities over their General Plans for environmental reasons, etc., etc., etc.
We are working on a project that has been planned to be residential for the better part of 3 decades. Once approved, it will have taken close to 10 years to get through the process.
Do they still have mobile home parks in Malibu??
avg joe to build in CA. You have to have deep pockets to afford all the permits and fees ??
The average joe builder is out of business around here…The only people left are the “small” but wealthy builder or the big boys…Thats it…
Same here–all the new construction is either
a) VERY high end stuff done by big shot “developers” who rip down a rowhouse and replace it with something twice as large w/ roof deck & garage with life inside to store 2 cars
or
b) Pulte, Ryan, NV, Toll Brothers churning out unremarkable new rowhouse/townhouse projects in un-used or under-used former industrial lots (This is actually good for the city and for neighborhoods, but I wonder about the quality of their work for the actual buyers)
*lift inside
“The State of CA has low vacancy rates ”
That’s a fallacy. The truth is CA has high vacancy rates relative to the broader average. This is why prices are falling, even in the bay area.
Sure it has low vacancy rates- when you ignore hundreds of thousands of empty homes in the shadow inventory.
Have you noticed how all of these “real estate is recovering” stories make no mention of the shadow inventory? But there it is, hiding in plain sight.
Spot on Grizz and AZ.
‘no mention of the shadow inventory’
I saw a report recently with some guy saying housing was a long way from the bottom, and his main thing was shadow inventory. I’ve said for a while that was important, obvious manipulation. But IMO the single biggest factor is financing. Would anyone have believed 5 or 6 years ago that the govt would have taken over the mortgage market, artificially pushed rates and down payments lower than ever. And then kept doing that for years with no end in sight? They keep looking for any way to make loans; unlimited LTV, no doc, no appraisal govt refis. Run FHA into the ground, digging the GSE hole deeper. And at the same time, the central bank announces they are going to buy $40 billion in MBS per month, indefinitely, propping the shell game up.
Sure, shadow inventory is a serious manipulation. But if lending was normalized, if rates were normalized, there wouldn’t be any shadow inventory because lenders would be unloading these houses as fast as they could.
“Would anyone have believed 5 or 6 years ago that the govt would have taken over the mortgage market, artificially pushed rates and down payments lower than ever. And then kept doing that for years with no end in sight? They keep looking for any way to make loans; unlimited LTV, no doc, no appraisal govt refis. Run FHA into the ground, digging the GSE hole deeper. And at the same time, the central bank announces they are going to buy $40 billion in MBS per month, indefinitely, propping the shell game up.”
Has this ever happened before?
What are some reasonable guesses about how it all ends (or doesn’t)?
Man-hug, Ben.
Every time I peer over the “how the eff does this keep going on and on and on” ledge, you know just what to say to talk me down.
Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for your work here.
“That’s a fallacy. The truth is CA has high vacancy rates relative to the broader average. This is why prices are falling, even in the bay area.”
Anyone other than me care to comment on his statement of “truth”?
It’s not a statement. It’s a response to what is clearly a misrepresentation on your part.
We better build more housing units in CA ??
Ca. is a pretty big place….Build more housing units where ??… Modesto ? I just saw a house for sale there for $60,000…
Tongue in cheek really with my question…They are building more housing in the job centers…They just don’t look like the kind of housing your use to seeing…
Two observations….
#1…High density housing is being built at a rabid pace around here…When I mean high density, I am talking of 50 units per acre…And, there is not only a lot being built, there is a “TON” of it in the planning pipeline…
#2…High density housing for 55 and over…Again were talking 50 units per acre…That is the new wave of housing that I see and its happening everywhere along with a ton of it in the pipeline…
Two things I conclude….
The move back to the urban core is underway…Its just gotten to costly in terms of dollars, efficiency & time lost…
The move in on to accommodate the senior set in the Urban core…Services that are needed are consolidated in one location and are close to other desired services & activities…This housing availability will free up other SFR housing also…
I agree with you. The problem is that the move to the urban core is a lot more difficult than it seems. Do you see people with families moving INTO SF proper? I sure don’t.
For all the housing in the planning process, we need to talk about magnitudes…are there thousands of units close to jobs? tens of thousands in the process?
The number of higher density projects built needs to be in the high tens of thousands PER YEAR close to job centers in CA in order to start to take the pressure off. In the meantime, we are already seeing demand get pushed over the hill to places like Tracy and Manteca in No Cal, and into the Western Inland Empire (Corona, Temecula/Murrieta) in So Cal.
Unfortunately, you just reminded me of a former manager of mine. I still remember when I went down for our first regional meeting with him. He announced that he lived in Tracy and no one had any idea where he was talking about.
That was 2000. I’m guessing much has changed since then.
Does Tracy still reek of death, thanks to the slaughterhouse located there?
And with respect to seniors moving out of their homes…don’t bet too heavily on that…Prop 13 is a pull to keep them in their homes.
Testify!!
Ben Bernanke warns Congress to avoid ‘fiscal cliff’
By Associated Press
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - Added 3 hours ago
WASHINGTON — Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Tuesday urged Congress and the Obama administration to strike a budget deal to avert tax increases and spending cuts that could trigger a recession next year.
Without a deal, the measures known as the “fiscal cliff” will take effect in January.
Bernanke also said Congress must raise the federal debt limit to prevent the government from defaulting on Treasurys debt. Failure to do so would impose heavy costs on the economy, he said. Bernanke said Congress also needs to reduce the federal debt over the long run to ensure economic growth and stability.
Uncertainty about all these issues is likely holding back spending and investment and troubling investors, the Fed chairman said in a speech to the Economic Club of New York.
Resolving the fiscal crisis would prevent a sudden and severe shock to the economy, help reduce unemployment and strengthen growth, he said. That could make the new year “a very good one for the American economy,” he said.
“A stronger economy will, in turn, reduce the deficit and contribute to achieving long-term fiscal sustainability,” Bernanke told the group.
When asked during a question and answer session after the speech whether the Fed could soften the impact of the fiscal cliff, Bernanke was firm in his warning.
“In the worst-case scenario where the economy goes off the broad fiscal cliff … I don’t think the Fed has the tools to offset that,” Bernanke said.
…
japan is approaching a quadrillion of debt. Ben has a lot of room to keep printing.
If the govt stops spending the economy tanks. those 50 million on food stamps need to go to walmart.
The big difference is for years the Japanese economy had the private savings to finance the debt. The U.S. cannot finance its debt with private savings, printing money and borrowing overseas have consequences that we cannot afford.
Either way a lot of creditors won’t be paid back.
“What do you do for a living?”
“I appraise houses. I determine what they are worth and then report my findings to my customer, the lender, the guy who pays me. My motto is ‘Honesty is the best policy’.”
“How about you? What do you do for a living?”
“I’m also an appraiser. Just like the other guy the lender is the one who pays me, the lender is my customer. But unlike the other guy my motto is a bit different. My motto is ‘The customer is always right’. If my customer thinks my appraisal is too low and the customer is a bit miffed then I will adjust my appraisal accordingly because, after all, ‘The customer is always right’.
“Which one of you two make the most money?”
“Now that, my friend, is a very stupid question.”
Denver Post - Suspected Denver serial rapist has ties to high-profile Democrats:
“The suspected serial rapist linked by DNA to three sexual attacks on strangers — one of whom was a 13 year old girl — also has close ties to some of the state’s high-profile Democratic politicos.
When William Costello was arrested in Bayfield on Nov. 5, he was volunteering to drop off yard signs at a Durango campaign office and was driving the car of a top political strategist, police records show.
Those who knew Costello, 47, paint a picture of a successful real estate broker and dedicated father, someone trusted in the upper echelons of the community who gave no outward sign he could have committed such dark crimes.
Police have charged him with multiple counts of sexual assault, kidnapping and impersonating a police officer, according to affadavits released Monday.”
Now that’s Hope and Change we can believe in!
ISTR that John Wayne Gacy was also a highly respected member of his community. Also, the BTK Killer. He was considered to be a pillar of his community. Until he wasn’t.
Hang ‘em high. Low life scum.
Fiscal Cliff for Dummies: Bush Tax Cuts, Sequester & More Explained
Nov 21, 2012 4:45 AM EST
Been too crazed stockpiling vittles for Thanksgiving to learn anything about this fiscal cliff we’re careening toward? Impress the relatives with tidbits from our guide on everything from the sequester to the supercommittee.
Sorry, I’ve been too busy buying wine for Thursday to pay much attention to this “fiscal cliff” everyone talks about. I need to stay warm camping out for Walmart’s 8 p.m. opening. So, what is it?
The “fiscal cliff” isn’t just one thing, it’s a bunch of tax rates and government spending levels that are scheduled to change on Jan. 1, 2013.
Umm, OK. What?
It’s easier to think of it as coming in two main parts. The first is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. These tax cuts brought income and investment taxes down for everyone, with some of the biggest cuts coming for high-earners. The most contentious tax cuts that Democrats want to get rid off were for income and investment income at the top. The Bush tax cuts brought down the marginal rate for the highest earners from 39.6 percent to 35 percent. The maximum tax rate for income from long-term capital gains rate was brought down to 15 percent from 20 percent, and the tax rate on dividends dropped to 15 percent.
Back when they were passed in 2001 and 2003, they included a sunset provision, meaning they would expire at the end of 2010. President Obama cut a deal with congressional Republicans to extend the tax cuts for another two years in exchange for extended unemployment benefits and a 2 percentage-point reduction in the payroll tax. That extension, along with the payroll tax reduction, is scheduled to expire at the end of the year. That’s the first big chunk of the fiscal cliff.
And the second?
The second is the so-called sequester.
Sylvester? What does Rocky have to do with this?
No, no, sequester. This refers to one portion of the spending cuts included in the Budget Control Act, passed and signed in August 2011.
Does this have something to do with the debt ceiling?
Ding! Ding! Ding! Come on down and accept your prize of cuts in discretionary spending!
The Budget Control Act did three main things. First, it allowed the president to raise the debt ceiling by $2.1 trillion, thus making it possible for the government to increase its debts at least through this year. But more important, it instituted two rounds of significant spending cuts. The first was implemented “immediately.”
Why the scare quotes?
It was implemented “immediately” in a way only a Washington policy wonk could appreciate. Government programs whose budgets are set every year—defense spending, education funding, the FBI, and so on—would see those budgets collectively reduced, relative to their scheduled growth, by just more than $1 trillion over the next 10 years.
Wait, so is it a cut or a reduction in projected growth?
This is more of a philosophical question than anything else. Think about it this way: the revenue the government gets through taxes grows more or less along with the economy. So the status quo for the budget of a government program is that it will grow in real terms over time. Slowing down that projected growth means money can be freed up to be spent elsewhere. In the case of the Budget Control Act, the government would have to borrow less money to fund its operations.
But there’s a second part?
Yes, this is the sequester. The second portion of the cuts were supposed to be decided on by Congress.
A committee called the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction was to come up with a list of cuts that would then be put to Congress for a full vote. If the committee, commonly referred to as the “supercommittee,” couldn’t agree on the cuts, $1.2 trillion in further spending reductions over 10 years would be implemented starting Jan. 1. This is the “sequester.” And combined with the expiring tax cuts—along with other annual tax and spending policies that are renewed every year, like adjusting the Alternative Minimum Tax so that it doesn’t hit too many people and maintaining the current Medicare payment rates for doctors—you have your fiscal cliff.
So what happens Jan. 1?
…
A very good morning to you all.
Are you still thinking about the Fiscal Cliff? So much uncertainity?
I hope it happens and some fat is cut in spending. We are spending way too much.
And to top it, the debt ceiling. Some leaders are trying for unlimited spending on this credit card. I’ll call my credit card company and ask for unlimited spending. Would they do it? As people go in power, their ability to think wisely goes away.
What would be the consequences of punting, after they lashed themselves to the mast of sequestration?
‘Rough start’ reported for fiscal cliff talks
November 21, 2012, 8:31 AM
Politico was reporting Tuesday night of a rough start to fiscal-cliff negotiations between top aides to key leaders including President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner. Obama is in Asia and Congress is on break for Thanksgiving, but key aides have remained behind to get negotiations moving.
The newspaper said Democrats on the Hill said the Republican opening bid –to “freeze the Bush-era tax rates, change the inflation calculator for entitlement programs, keep the estate tax at 2012 levels and authorize a major overhaul of the tax code” wasn’t something the White House could accept. Republicans also want to postpone the planned automatic spending cuts to both defense and non-defense programs.
…
Well, hopefully they can get it together and give everyone a happy ending!
The newspaper said Democrats on the Hill said the Republican opening bid –to “freeze the Bush-era tax rates, change the inflation calculator for entitlement programs, keep the estate tax at 2012 levels and authorize a major overhaul of the tax code” wasn’t something the White House could accept. Republicans also want to postpone the planned automatic spending cuts to both defense and non-defense programs.
So, basically do nothing. Do I have that right?
Do nothing except stick it to people on Social Security and then ‘overhaul’ the tax code by- let me guess- lowering top tax rates.
They know that once those cut expire, they’ll never get them back. To use a basketball analogy, they are constantly fouling to stop the clock. It’s not going to work this time. Obama has said he will veto anything that keeps status quo on the rich — i.e. let ALL those cuts expire — and there’s little reason to doubt him after his victory.
We can’t go over the fiscal cliff, because the value of the financial assets held by the wealthy might fall and key corporations and seniors might experience distress.
But we have to cut the budget deficit “in the long run” but slashing benefits for younger generations.
I’ll say it again. Fiscal diff? Bring it on. Recession or no.
Fiscal diff? Bring it on. Recession or no.
Agreed. The ominous “fiscal cliff” verbiage is similar to that which someone brought up a few days back in regard to the debt ceiling, with increases in that case being sold as necessary/good.
Cuts need to be made. Pain needs to occur.
I’m not rich enough to worry about a “fiscal cliff”.
Will I have work or not and will I have some sort of retirement benefits, is the only thing that concerns me.
“Will I have work or not and will I have some sort of retirement benefits,…”
How the fiscal cliff chicken game plays out could impact both of your worries.
How about a $0 cap on the mortgage interest deduction, with a grandfather clause to protect those who bought their homes with the full deduction and a gradual phase-out over the next few decades for future buyers.
We’ve got to take this country back — from the finance, insurance and real estate industries!!!
Wouldn’t a mortgage interest deduction cap of $35,000 basically apply to nobody and have zero effect on the deficit?
Why pass a cap that has no effect?
November 19, 2012, 2:58 PM
Fiscal-Cliff Fix May Cap Mortgage Deduction
By Alan Zibel
Could the talks to avoid the “fiscal cliff” place the popular mortgage-interest deduction in the cross hairs?
As we write today, taxpayers in high-priced coastal markets derive the most benefit from itemized deductions, such as the ones for mortgage interest and property taxes.
However, any proposal to cap deductions—one level being discussed in policy circles at the moment is $35,000—is sure to lead to an intense outcry from the real-estate industry. It would represent a significant change to a longstanding policy of federal support for the housing market while the housing market is finally recovering from a severe recession.
…
mortgage interest deduction cap of $35,000 basically apply to nobody?
Assuming 4% fixed APR, $35,000 is the interest on ~$800K worth of mortgage (per Bankrate), which I guess could be spread over one or more houses. That $800K is also 3x Obama’s magic $250K income level for keeping the tax cuts. Probably NOT a coincidence.
The percentage of mortgages over $800K has to be vanishingly small, no?
It’s probably not too difficult to rack up $800K in mortgages, especially for a $250K couple in an area like DC. A $600K house and a $200K vacation home and there you are.
Are there enough over-$800K owners to make collecting the extra tax worthwhile? I was wondering that too, P-bear. They would capture considerably more tax if they lowered that $35K to about $20K.
“It’s probably not too difficult to rack up $800K in mortgages”
Only in your world. lmao.
real estate is the economy.
In what part of the real estate industry do you work?
so goes real estate so goes the economy. look at how many billions have been pumped into the system to prop up home prices.
“look at how many billions have been pumped into the system to prop up home prices”
Step one for getting yourself out of a hole: STOP DIGGING!
“so goes real estate so goes the economy.”
Now do you just make this shit up as you go along or are you ready from a script?
Housing tanked in the 90’s yet GDP growth rose and the economy roared.
I’ll tell you what…. I’ll continue to make a mockery of your endless stream of bullshit so long as you continue to post it.
Cool? Cool.
your full of bs my friend. housing is the economy these days. I dont care what happened in the past.
“housing is the economy these days.”
Apparently not considering housing is <10% GDP and housing demand is at 16 year lows.
PS- Enjoy the price declines.
“…is the economy…”
This statement is misleading on a couple of levels. For starters, real estate has always inherently represented a large portion of consumption and investment activity ever since America started growing as a country. But the outsized share it has achieved since the bubble years is unsustainably high, to the point of malinvestment in a pace of home construction that exceeded demand during the mania years.
The other thing the statement (and many policy wonks) seems to miss is that real estate has long been a heavily subsidized sector, with increasing levels of subsidies of various different flavors in recent years. Any sector so heavily subsidized would naturally grow to ginormous proportions, easily bamboozling the clueless into believing that it had become ‘essential’ to the economy, when in fact it had become a malignant cancer, threatening to crowd out other potential productive activities.
dont over think it bro. Without home equity the economy goes nowhere.
Exactly. To get us back to having a consumer based economy without wage growth we need to have home equity extraction. I am not endorsing this, far from it but it is the plan.
consumer based economy without wage growth
The Lucky Ducky future in a nutshell.
“Without home equity the economy goes nowhere.”
We HBBers should be doing everything in our power to disabuse this notion, and replace it with “without income, the economy goes nowhere.”
Debt can not drive an economy as it is only allows people spend their future income now. And equity is not money, it’s just one of the tools that lenders use to estimate your debt carrying capacity.
Housing subsidies of various kinds have become the SNAP cards for “bootstrap” crowd. Welfare/government handouts that people can pretend isn’t welfare.
“dont over think it bro.”
Don’t under think it, dude! Continually pouring money down the real estate rat hole is the path to economic hell.
“Exactly. To get us back to having a consumer based economy without wage growth we need to have home equity extraction. I am not endorsing this, far from it but it is the plan.”
Hair of the dog works poorly for curing hangovers. Maybe it works better for curing housing market collapse?
Housing subsidies of various kinds have become the SNAP cards for “bootstrap” crowd. Welfare/government handouts that people can pretend isn’t welfare.
As I’ve said before, it’s only “welfare” when it benefits someone else. Which is why the budget will never be balanced.
ADan is right, except that this has been the case for the last 30 years. Anyone remember the Carlton Sheets form the 1980s?
The last 15 year bubble was based on the fact that wages were not keeping up with inflation AND offshoring, therefore RE speculation and equity took its place, promoted by those with a vested interest in the industry itself.
This not the first time the sheep got sheared.
“Without home equity the economy goes nowhere.”
Over time, people living below their means and keeping their debt levels reasonable will do more for the economy than the fake home equity cash. I HOPE THE KIDS OUT THERE WATCHING ARE TAKING NOTE.
I don’t think the kids are taking note. In fact, I tend to believe they think this “downturn” is the ABnormal part. No, this knowledge will have to come the hard way, over many years/decades.
John Milius agrees with you. Milius on Wall Street and Mexico:
“Milius on stopping murderous drug traffickers in Mexico: “We need to go down there, kill them all, flatten the place with bulldozers so when you wake up in the morning, there’s nothing there,” he said in a phone interview. “I do believe if you have a military, you use it.”
Or Rush Limbaugh: “I was watching Rush Limbaugh the other night, and I was horrified. I would have Rush Limbaugh drawn and quartered. He was sticking up for these Wall Street pigs. There should be public show trials, mass denunciations and executions.”
[Apocalypse' writer: Most scripts today 'are garbage', CNN, by Thom Patterson, March 9, 2009]
Speaking of which, will Preet Bahara be the one who finally nails Stevie Cohen (SAC)? Because reading the story about the insider trading, it finally dawned on me that Stevie’s claim to be able to “read patterns” has probably been BS since the get-go.
public show trials, mass denunciations and executions
We can only wish.
At least the Chinese can get that right.
You know, if these Mexican drug cartels are such a problem, why not used drones on them like we do to take out alleged terrorists in the Middle East?
‘if these Mexican drug cartels are such a problem, why not used drones on them like we do to take out alleged terrorists in the Middle East?’
First, you are assuming that shooting missiles into streets and houses solves a problem. Then there’s this:
‘President Obama says Israel has a right to defend itself from missiles being aimed at the country by militants in the Gaza Strip. Obama says ‘no country on earth would tolerate missiles raining down’ on its people’
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/18/war-looms-over-gaza-as-signs-mount-possible-israeli-invasion/#ixzz2CrvXUcoK
The Mexicans would probably get angry when ‘collateral damage’ started turning up in Acapulco. Besides, the big push from Latin American governments has been toward legalization, with only the US standing in the way. “Solutions” like legalization are met with resistance in the usual places. But along these lines, the Petraeus thing has opened up criticism of the COIN failure, and really even a lot more than that. I was reading this:
Petraeus’s COIN Gets Flipped. The general’s counterinsurgency doctrine is as disgraced as he is.
By Kelley Vlahos
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/petraeuss-coin-gets-flipped/
And then from the comments:
1 - ‘COIN…could never work because of three obvious facts- people don’t like being told what to do by armed foreigners and all societies contain enough “hostiles” to keep a war going, the west has limited endurance for fighting guerrilla wars which the guerrillas are counting on, and western governments organizational culture isn’t suited to long term difficult projects.’
‘A study of the insurgencies in Dutch East Indies, Palestine, Indo-China, Viet-Nam, Kenya, Cyprus, Aden, Mozambique, Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Iraq and Soviet Afghanistan should have been a strong indication that armed nation building is a fool’s errand.’
2 - ‘I imagine, though, that COIN was a hope that we hadn’t fallen into yet another situation of a failed war. By the time it was proposed, we were already well into Iraq and Afganistan, and no one wanted to lose either war.’
‘With this being dubbed a failure, though, we’re left with a very ugly realization: military action does not work. If attacking and defeating a nation does nothing except create a failed campaign, then it means there’s no gain for actively attacking said nation.’
‘This puts an ugly spin on Iran. If Iran cannot be stopped by diplomatic means, will that mean we will be sending troops into yet another decade long failed campaign? Or will we turn to ‘burn and run’ tactics, which is about as effective, though at least a little cheaper?’
‘If we really can’t ‘win’ a war, what exactly can we do with the military we have?’
My point is that conventional wisdom on the efficacy of the use of force is largely mythical. And when we strip that away, some very surprising conclusions can be made.
President Obama says Israel has a right to defend itself from missiles being aimed at the country by militants in the Gaza Strip. Obama says ‘no country on earth would tolerate missiles raining down’ on its people’
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHA!!!
That’s rich.
Just ask Pakistan.
“First, you are assuming that shooting missiles into streets and houses solves a problem.”
I wasn’t assuming anything. With all due respect, go back and read my post, please note the use of the word “alleged” and see if you can’t detect the sarcasm in it.
OTOH, it’s a legitimate question for the administration and the DEA, CIA or whatever alphabet agency is in favor at the moment. If the gubmin thinks drones are doing such a bang-up job in the Middle East, why all the bloviating about drug cartels in Mexico? Why not take ‘em out with the drones they’re so fond of? What makes little Juan’s neck more precious than little Mohammed’s? Because little Mohammed might grow up to be a jihadist opposed to US policies in his homeland, while little Juan might grow up to either:
a) provide compliant stoop labor for a multinational, or
b) become a drug cartel member providing a cut to some alphabet agency
‘Why not take ‘em out with the drones they’re so fond of?’
Or even use the drones just to find them. I follow this as much as I can. (I became interested living near Matamoros when the Zeta’s split and formed their own gang.) Guzman, the head of the Sinaloa cartel supposedly lives in N W Mexico. He’s a multi-billionaire, leads the largest cartel. The most wanted man in Mexico. But not that long ago his wife came into CA, had a baby (twins? I can’t remember), and left. You would think the DEA could scour the countryside looking for such a large profile individual, but years go by and nothing.
There are some interesting web sites on the narco wars. There was apparently a wikileaks cable revealing some sort of deal with the US feds where the Sinaloans were declared the winner of the cartel wars, (the turf wars would end) and the US govt would allow the drugs to come in. With a few busts here and there to keep up appearances, of course.
I don’t know. But these cartels have now spread into Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador. They are different from the Medellin cartel types; more organized, militant, aggressive.
“There was apparently a wikileaks cable revealing some sort of deal with the US feds where the Sinaloans were declared the winner of the cartel wars, (the turf wars would end) and the US govt would allow the drugs to come in. With a few busts here and there to keep up appearances, of course.”
I believe this. Hence, my sarcasm about drones and cartels.
War with Iran would be a horrible deadly for both sides.
Unlike Iraq, the country is mountainous on the coast and interior. Filled with canyons and smugglers caves from thousands of years ago.
Also, 99% of the population is of the same ethnic mix and religion.
They would not welcome the US with flowers.
Shutting down the Straight of Hormuz would be easy with a few hundred missiles fired from the caves on the coast.
/Iran is not an Arabic country
Obama says ‘no country on earth would tolerate missiles raining down’ on its people’
——–
*Ouch*
Speaking of drones, did anyone see the interview in the WP a few months ago about the drone operator who gets up, stops by McDonalds for and egg McMuffin, drives to the base, sits down at his desk with his starbucks coffee cup, spys on a guy all day long watching his house, wife and children… basically knows this guys whole life style; then when the coast is clear, kills him with a missile.
This same guy then drives home and has dinner with HIS wife and children.
There is some concern that a drone pilots transition from cold blooded killer to Harry Home owner family man may need a certain amount of time in order to be “healthy”.
After all, even cops get put on desk duty after they kill someone?
The banality of Evil.
Rush is on TV again?
The article from which the excerpts were taken is from 2009.
He must have been on Fox because he hasn’t had a TV show since the 90s.
“Milius on stopping murderous drug traffickers in Mexico: “We need to go down there, kill them all, flatten the place with bulldozers so when you wake up in the morning, there’s nothing there,” he said in a phone interview. “I do believe if you have a military, you use it.”
Is Milius Jr a combat-arms member of the military?
Oh come on, we just need to flatten Mexico with bulldozers. It’s the common sense solution.
Sigh. Milius was hopelessly outdated in his solution. Drones, man. It’s the common sense solution.
I say get ride of the MID completely. With mortgage rates so low (supported by the taxpayer), people are getting their break right there. I would love to see this eliminated so that the Real Estate industry can’t lie to people regarding all the money you “save” with a mortgage.
It is really a sad state when so many gullible people out there can’t do math. Let’s see, if I pay $5000 in mortgate interest I get $800 back on my taxes. If I don’t pay any interest, I get to keep my $5000, but I have to pay $800 more in taxes. Why do people take the $800 over $4200? (Granted, my numbers are probably not the most acurate, just trying to make the point).
I worry about future innocent participants in the housing market and how they are going to get fleeced at some point.
“…if I pay $5000 in mortgate interest I get $800 back on my taxes. ”
Let’s assume you are married and file jointly. The standard deduction for married couples filing a joint return was $11,900 for 2012. So unless you had in excess of another $6,900 in deductions above the $5000 mortgage interest paid in your scenario, you would not get back a penny more in taxes for itemizing and claiming the mortgage interest deduction. And you would have wasted precious hours of your life compiling and documenting records to support your itemized deductions.
Are you starting to understand now why I like to call the mortgage interest deduction WELFARE FOR THE WEALTHY?
Regressive in the short run but progressive in the long run.
I like the idea, CITB.
“…progressive in the long run.”
Careful there. You are running the risk of setting off nickpapageorgio on a rant.
Is the mortgage interest deduction a “charitable deduction”? I hadn’t thought of that before, but it is quite a bit like forced charitable giving from all Americans to those who work in the real estate industry.
How to cut the charitable deduction without hurting charities
Posted by Dylan Matthews on November 15, 2012 at 11:50 am
If Congress is to raise significant revenue by cutting deductions, they’re probably going to have to cut back on popular provisions like the exemption for employer-provided health insurance or the deduction for mortgage interest.
Many of those provisions are viewed skeptically by policy experts. The mortgage interest deduction, for example, does not actually increase homeownership, and some argue it promotes excessive borrowing, which increases the number of people who are “underwater” on their mortgages. The employer health insurance exemption, for its part, makes workers dependent on their employers for health coverage, among many other distortions. As Brad noted last month, one of the few areas of agreement among economists of all ideological stripes is on ending these two tax breaks.
…
There are plenty of things that employers provide that are exempt from taxation; work space, lighting, bathrooms & etc.
The employer health insurance exemption, for its part, makes workers dependent on their employers for health coverage, among many other distortions.
Exactly. That’s how our current health care system is anti-entrepreneurial.
The health care tax deduction also helps drive higher health care costs, just as the MID drives higher house prices.
“The health care tax deduction also helps drive higher health care costs….”
Seriously? Because it’s deductable (well a little bit) people choose to get bigger medical procedures (like a bigger house) just because it pencils out to so much a month?
People are less aware of health care costs rising if they get their health care tax free from their employer.
Of course this also drives higher prices, the same way the MID drives higher house prices.
Years ago, when I worked for one of Arizona’s largest private foundations, I noticed something very interesting.
And that was that, as a general rule, donors weren’t too concerned about the tax implications of their giving. They were more interested in the cause that they were supporting.
Even more amazing, the wealthiest donors cared the least about the tax part. They may have been poor young folks who got a university scholarship and then they went on to become financially successful. They wanted to set up an even more generous scholarship than the one they had. And they wanted to do it NOW.
Or, using another common scenario, they or someone they loved was affected by a terrible disease. They wanted to fund research into the cause(s) and cure. And, again, they wanted to do it NOW.
The other aspect of the mortgage interest deduction to bear in mind is that it primarily serves as an implicit mechanism to redistribute wealth from the 99% to the 1%. 99% folks tend to enjoy little if any additional benefit by itemizing their paltry mortgage interest instead of taking the standard deduction. By contrast, wealthy folks with mortgages in excess of $500,000 tend to have very LARGE mortgage interest deductions.
I dont know about the mortgage interest deduction but all these rich sob’s drawing a social security check is getting old.
Social Security was structured as insurance and not as a means tested program. It was done this way when there were still plenty of people around that understood the constitution and the history lesson that transfer payments between individuals based on means was the quickest way to end a democracy.
Having said that, in a democracy, based on the federalists papers there should always be factions checking each other. Given that there should a party representing capital and I think the Republicans fit that bill, and there should be a party representing labor. I do not see the democrats fitting that bill despite having the support of public service workers.
The democrats support labor, but much of labor doesn’t support the democrats, as the Repubs’ gods, guns ‘n’ gays platform has garnered them the support of pretty much all of the white male lower/lower-middle class, including many of those in labor.
Maybe the democrats support unions, but they do not support labor. You cannot have open borders and support the Chinese having unlimited access to our markets and be supporting labor (in its broadest meaning).
The Democrats have tried many times to support labor, end offshoring and increase border security.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68R40I20100928
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2011/0510/Immigration-reform-and-border-security-Obama-s-standards
Just give them back the money they paid into the program.
that would work too. I guess put them through a means test. It would help plug some holes for awhile.
Without interest? See one of the major problems with social security is the return on the trust fund. Since government bonds are paying far less than they should due to Fed intervention the trust funds is not earning very much money. If bond rates were at 7% there would not be much of a problem, if at all with social security. Is is the fault of old people that BB had depressed returns? When people say that old people are getting far more than they put in, they fail to realise that if the old people would have been able to invest that money they would have been able to get a far better return. The first few generations did get a better return than the private sector would have provided but with the baby boomers, I think it is unlikely. Big government has used social security to fund its programs with cheap loans.
Just give them back the money they paid into the program ??
I will take it in a heartbeat…With compounded interest of course…Lets see…42 years of paying in…That should be a pretty nice check…
SS is supposed to be old-age insurance.
Would you say that someone’s heirs should not receive their life insurance pay-out because they have too many other assets?
The moment you start restricting SS to only those “needy enough”, you will erode support for the system; that will be the beginning of the end of SS.
“I dont know about the mortgage interest deduction but all these rich sob’s drawing a social security check is getting old.”
They paid into this retirement scheme, so why not draw from it when they reach the qualifying age? Too many people are drawing from it today who have contributed little or nothing during their working years. SSI and SSDI have become welfare programs.
Too many people are drawing from it today who have contributed little or nothing during their working years.
How, and who? Not challenging you, just curious how this works.
How, and who ??
For starters, I don’t think 7 years of active employment should qualify you for the benefit even if its the minimum benefit…
“….who have contributed little or nothing.”
“How, and who?”
Stay-at-home moms. They used to be all over the place.
Fortunately, our economy since 1975-1980 has helped to eliminate that problem.
Stay at home moms were paying it forward.
How, and who? Not challenging you, just curious how this works.
SSDI. A friend was on it for 25-yrs, and soaked MediCal for a pretty penny along the way. Any work was under the table with the proceeds going to alcohol and drugs. His parents were reasonably dysfunctional as well, so they contributed little while withdrawing plenty too.
The other aspect of the mortgage interest deduction to bear in mind is that it primarily serves as an implicit mechanism to redistribute wealth from the 99% to the 1%. 99% folks tend to enjoy little if any additional benefit by itemizing their paltry mortgage interest instead of taking the standard deduction. By contrast, wealthy folks with mortgages in excess of $500,000 tend to have very LARGE mortgage interest deductions.
Actually not. It’s a way for the largest taxpayers to get rebate on the disproportionate large share of the taxes they pay. Half of the population pays no federal income tax. Like it or not Romney was right they’re freeloading.
Can anyone who “gits it” kindly explain how the stock market could have seen massive withdrawals all year long, coupled with stellar performance? I’m scratching my head over this one…
AP News
Cash pulled from stock funds for 8th month in row
By Mark Jewell on November 14, 2012
BOSTON (AP) — Mutual fund shareholders aren’t budging from their recently conservative approach to investing, despite this year’s stock market gains. Cash was pulled from stock funds for the eighth month in a row in October, while bond funds attracted cash for the 14th consecutive month.
Industry consultant Strategic Insight reported on Wednesday that a net $15.2 billion was withdrawn from U.S. stock funds last month.
Despite a modest decline last month, the Standard & Poor’s 500 index was up 12 percent for the year through October. Bond fund returns averaged nearly 8 percent over the same period, and Strategic Insight estimated stock and bond fund assets have appreciated in value by more than $1 trillion this year to $8.8 trillion.
“So far, 2012 shapes up as one of the best years ever for wealth creation for mutual fund investors,” said Avi Nachmany, research director with New York-based Strategic Insight.
…
friends of the bernak can do wonders.
There have been net withdrawals from stock mutual funds for the last eight months. This does not mean that individuals and institutions have been net sellers of individual stocks in the the market as a whole. Stock mutual funds generally cater to the smaller investor. & remember, the stock market climbs a wall of worry.
Zimbabwe had one of the best performing stock markets on a nominal basis just before the country completely collapsed. One of the major problems with taxing capital gains like earned income is that there is no accounting for inflation. If you invest 10,000 dollars in year one, and have 12,000 when you sell, if inflation had double the costs of goods, you have made a very bad investment. However, government will tax you like you made a good investment. Kind of discourages people from making needed investments in high inflation economies.
isnt zimbabwe using the dollar now? how many more people will be on food stamps in the next 4 years due to inflation?
No food stamps in Zimbabwe silly.
“…the stock market climbs a wall of worry.”
Platitudes won’t save the market from collapse borne of massive investor withdrawals.
How come U.S. stocks keep going up when so much money is getting taken out of the market?
How come U.S. stocks keep going up when so much money is getting taken out of the market?
Easy. People with any sense will stay out of the market. I left in the summer of 2007 & intend to stay out forever. The high frequency traders are self-dealing. This situation looks impossible, but will continue - until it doesn’t.
I’m all out too. Trust has been broken.
Trust has been broken. The way I think of it is, I refuse to do business with organized crime if I can help it.
Technically, the only way money comes out of the market is when a company buys it’s own stock. Otherwise, it’s zero sum. For instance, if I sell to you a share then my money goes out and yours goes in at a 1 to 1 basis.
The article is saying that money is coming out of stock funds instead of the stock market. That just means that less stocks are being held by mutual funds and more are held directly by investors.
Most likely scenario is small time investors are dumping stock funds for bond funds, and large investors are buying the stocks from the shrinking mutual funds. Given that the large (mostly corporate) investors massivley outweigh the small timers, they’re setting the direction of the markets.
Aren’t the ETFs killing the stock funds?
Big time. Much lower fees.
Just read and interesting article on Zerohedge discussing corporate debt increases for stock buy-back purchases.
If a company is going to miss earnings they can improve EPS (earnings per share) buy reducing the amount of shares out. This is also nice for the execs whose share prices stay nice and high for their insider sales, although not so nice for workers who don’t get raises and find themselves working for companies that have more debt and less cash on hand to weather future crisises.
The record corporate profits over the last 3 years are also being used to buy back stock.
“Can’t we all get along?”
Twinkies’ demise proves the stupidity of U.S. labor relations
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-twinkies-demise-20121121,0,7440063.story
…..Two questions come to mind. First, did the workers understand how close to ruin the company was when they decided to go on strike? Second, did the owners bother to listen to employees’ concerns about improving the product line or did they just let the brand drift into financial crisis?
And, here’s a third question: When will employers and workers stop acting like adversaries and learn that they are on the same side?….
……I am not at all anti-union. In fact, I believe the fading of labor power has contributed to the stagnation of middle class incomes over the past 30 years. Far too many American workers now stand alone, forced to accept pay cuts, longer hours, reduced benefits and arrogant disregard from their employers. But strikes are a blunt instrument, a club used to hammer insensitive bosses until they cry uncle. In the 21st century, it seems as if there should be a better way.
How about this? In any larger company, give employees as big a voice as investors. Give them a place at the table — the table in the board room. Do not treat them as faceless cogs in a machine, treat them as what they are: the essential people who make the product or provide the service with good ideas of their own. Spread the rewards of success beyond the CEOs and stockholders. Workers should not have to strike to be given a fair share of company profits, they should have a real stake and a real voice in the success or failure of a company.
I will bet there was a way for Hostess to organize itself that would have brought employees into the process of saving the company. Instead, management and labor went to war and everyone lost.
People are framing this issue in labor v. mgmnt terms. It seems a lot has to do though with the underlying business. Who eats twinkies anymore?
With childhood obesity and diabetes at all time highs, isn’t the death of the twinkies a good thing?
With childhood obesity and diabetes at all time highs, mass starvation might actually improve the general welfare. /sarc
Now that’s Hope and Change we can believe in!
are there any twinkies left at walmart?
We need to make quick stop at Wal-Mart today to pick up a gift, will be avoiding the land whale stampede on Friday. Doubt that any Twinkies are left, sorry…
are there any twinkies left at walmart?
I saw generic Twinkies at Safeway. I wonder if they were union made?
“Who eats twinkies anymore?”
I heard the snack cake part of their business was roughly 2.7 billion/year. Somebody must be eating them.
Rio, when did union leaders get so stupid that they lost any knowledge of supply and demand? How do you expect to maintain $20 an hour wages when there is an army of workers willing to work for $10-12 and your employer is competing with them?
Everything old union leaders use to do was based on limiting the labor supply. Most of the time that actually conferred benefits on society. For example: (1) Old unions sought laws to restrict immigration, the idiots today want open borders. (2) child labor laws decreased the supply of workers (3) overtime laws encouraged companies to add employees and thus reduced the labor surplus (4) the minimum wage forced up wages even for people that were skilled due to making it more costly for companies to substitute unskilled for skilled workers.
So your solution is to turn back the clock to 1900?
As long as we are turning back the clock, why not go back to the 1400s?
All of you free-market types assumes that they are going to be part of the Feudal Baron class, lording it over all of the serfs.
Guess we are going to have to learn the lessons from back then all over again……
All of you free-market types assumes that they are going to be part of the Feudal Baron class, lording it over all of the serfs.
Of course they do. What they forget is that they are just the pricey hired help, and the big bosses are already working on plans to bust their chops.
Not working on, but already executing the plan.
I know quite a few white collar folks who STILL haven’t made the connection between their disdain for blue collar wages and their own job getting sent offshore.
X-GS.. some of us like 1776 (or 1787 if you prefer) as a good start date for the form of government we like.
We get to bring back slavery!
And no voting, womenfolk- your place is in the cabin.
Rio:
Therein lies the story will the workers /union member be able to have full access to the financial records of the company, and be able to make their own concessions to keep the company alive.
They could have made sure people showed up on time and didn’t call in sick and got someone else to work OT or double time.
They could have made basic health care mandatory with yearly checkups for what $50-100
Contracts would be renegotiated depending on the health of the company
Plus Any executive raises bonuses options could be vetoed by the union….
I agree. I ate Drake’s snack cakes as a kid. My kids never got anything like it. They got home made products. They got fresh baked products. And these have become more common.
As for the union, I don’t blame them. Let’s say they can continue to work for the company for low wages and no benefits. And they will do no better elsewhere.
If I were in their shoes, I’d say to the executives “screw you. If that’s all I can make, I’ll go to work in the bake shop of a supermarket, and make stuff fresh, and actually get to see the customers.”
Mass production was accepted because it brought a higher standard of living to ordinary people. When it no longer does, to hell with it.
That kind of was my thought, that they had nothing left to lose. Of course the execs sailed into the sunset with their millions, so what do they care?
When you’ve been taking pay cuts for years, you have nothing to lose and you then return the favor.
Mutual assured destruction. The union successfully achieved their goal. That’s how it works.
Also, there is no “army of people willing to work for $10-12hr” only people who HAVE to take those jobs.
Tons and tons of companies have employee stock purchase programs.
Anon, the union is Communist, like RioAmerican is. They didn’t want to pay for company equity. They wanted what the government did for the UAW from GM, which was to be GIVEN company equity, taken by force.
And the silly thing is that the unions were offered a 25% stake in the company. That one union wouldn’t accept the deal, even in the 11th hour, or more correctly, the 5 minutes after the alarm rang. The union doesn’t even want equity. They just want MONEY. And lots of it.
When your co-workers are able to vote you out of your job, it’s time to find another job. What is this, business, or another stupid season of Survivor made real?
New show on NBC: Survivor: Hostess
AP/ November 14, 2012, 6:05 PM
Cash pulled from stock funds 16th straight week
WASHINGTON — Investors withdrew money from stock mutual funds for the 16th consecutive week during the period ended Nov. 7. Bond funds continued to attract new money, as they have on all but one week this year.
The movement of cash was in line with the conservative approach that many investors have taken since the financial crisis of 2008. Money has consistently been withdrawn from stock mutual funds and added to lower-risk bond funds.
Stocks:
Investors withdrew a net $2.12 billion from U.S. stock funds, the Investment Company Institute said in a preliminary report Wednesday. Withdrawals have exceeded deposits for 16 weeks in a row, dating to July 18.
Cash was pulled out during the latest week as the Standard & Poor’s 500 stock index fell 1.3 percent.
The ICI said a net $300 million was deposited into funds investing primarily in foreign stocks. That snapped a 15-week string of net withdrawals from foreign stock funds, dating to mid-July. Those funds attracted cash through most of the first half of this year.
…
The government has screwed up the US housing market. And for a long time. But also, what was businesses’ role in the government’s action?
PINTO: Government keeps meddling in the housing market
Taxpayers on the hook for another bailout
Friday’s grim financial report from the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) — it’s insolvent to the tune of negative $31 billion — is prompting fresh scrutiny of the government’s role in housing, particularly the mayhem caused by federal backing of mortgages involving low down payments and low credit scores.
Despite the likelihood of yet another taxpayer bailout of a government agency, industry and community groups insist that the housing market can’t survive without an explicit guarantee. The facts demonstrate it cannot survive with one. Government housing policies have played a leading role in industrywide abandonment of underwriting standards to promote affordable housing. This has been well-documented.
Less well-known are the consequences of the government’s policy of attempting first to prolong and then to reinflate the bubble. From 2006 to 2009, various arms of the government mortgage complex backed trillions of dollars in mortgages as home prices collapsed. The result was more than $400 billion in defaults and 2.5 million expected foreclosures. It ultimately would take until 2012 — seven years after the bubble’s peak — for prices to stabilize.
Neither of these acts of folly were accidents.
All second homes should be eliminated from receiving MID. The MID should be eliminated going forth on all new purchases and those grandfathered in should lose the benefit upon sale of the property, refinancing of the property, or after 20 years. All HELOC money should not be tax deductible. You rent, buy a car on loan and don’t get a break; you buy a house, get a HELOC, and deduct the interest. Renters screwed again.
All second homes should be eliminated from receiving MID……
Good ones.
Salinasron, the irony of your proposal comes to mind. The politicians that would have to pass this are some of the biggest class of second homes consumers. They typically have one home in their district and home near the capitol dome.
Although - be prepared for you local market to collapse. Pebble Beach, Carmel, Pacific Grove and Monterey are filled with second homes aren’t they? Tahoe wold also collapse (it’s already in the process now).
Go for it if you can push it through. I have no idea why the government subsidizes stuff like this.
Congress’s DC homes are hardly vacation homes or rental properties. Congress could — IMO justafiably — exempt themselves from MID if the second home was within X miles of the Capitol building. Or maybe they could deduct it as a home office?
And if the vacation spots collapse, so be it. Vacation homes should be vacations, not tax vehicles.
In addition to congressmen/women in D.C. You’d have exempt every state congressional member too from Sacramento to Providence. And what about other state and local workers? We have cops here that can’t afford to live in the city so they buy a cheap home in the central valley and buy a condo in the city. They commute on weekends. Would we give them the break? So do we end up with two classes of people? Government workers and everyone else? So the private sector worker who does the same thing doesn’t get the break?
I’m not disagreeing - I’m just bedazzled by the complexity of it all.
Pebble Beach, Carmel ??
Do you really think the MID effects these markets or any others like them ?? IMO, elimination of the MID would not effect these markets one bit…These are wealthy people…Really Wealthy…MID is not going to impact there decision to buy…
I think that because IRS data shows about 75% of the top 1% use the mortgage interest deduction. While only 24% of the rest of the 99% use it. You have a lot of high wage earners looking to use these tax breaks. I know a lot of wealthy silicon valley engineers have homes down there for weekends. Personally I rent down there a lot for short stints. But the retired folks that paid cash - no not them obviously.
IRS data shows about 75% of the top 1% use the mortgage interest deduction ??
Yes, I understand that but elimination of that deduction would not change their decision to buy….People buy in Carmel &
La Jolla because they can not because of the deduction…
“Do you really think the MID effects these markets or any others like them ??”
Only if people use mortgages to purchase homes in these markets.
All second homes should be eliminated from receiving MID ??
I agree….And I would add…Eliminate MID on SFR rentals…Why…I want investors out of the SFR market…Want to leave it for condo’s, I am okay with that and that may in fact be productive…
Also, the elimination of the MID on single family rentals would stop the practice of renting the house for 8 months, claiming it as a investment property, deducting the interest and then heading to Aspen or Malibu to occupy it personally the other four months…
There are plenty of alternative residential investment vehicles available to investors…Get them out of the SFR market…
Am I understanding this correctly? You are suggesting that SFR owners that rent their SFR as a business for income shouldn’t be able to deduct the interest paid on financing the property as a business expense? So if own businessperson owns a SFR outright for $300k with no loan and make $24K / year on it he will be taxed for $12K / year of income. But an identical businessperson owns a SFR next door with 20% down an a $240k loan who pays $12K / year in interest and makes $12K / year on it in rent he will be taxed for full $12K / year of income? Even though the latter nets $0 in actual income? A lot of rentals on the market are a loss after paying interest for the first few years. I would imagine that would mean many new SFR would be immediately taken off the market. The SFR market would shrink and rents would go way up. Is that the goal? I think if it is a legit business than any legit business expense should be deductible against business income.
Sorry didn’t mean to type $24K above - it was supposed to be $12K for a simple apples to apples comparison.
You asked a lot of questions so I am not going to try and respond to all of them…
To sum my feelings up, I think investors harm the SFR market in that they bring a competitive force, including speculation (See new Homes), that just drives up the cost of SFR’s for owner occupants…
I understand the business argument you make, but as my previous post suggested, there are alternative investment vehicles for investors in the residential arena…A duplex investment for instance…
If you are not going to get the investors out of the SFR market completely, Then at a minimum I would eliminate “any-&-all” government backed or insured financing for investors no matter what their down payment may be…Let them finance the purchase through other sources if they want the SFR as a rental…That would likely make that purchase more expensive for a investor vs. a occupant which would be good for our society…
If we are going to make a argument that the government financing and the MID is to encourage “home-ownership” then it should be for occupants of the homes not landlords…
Just my take on it…
I understand then scdave - you want to reduce the SFR investor market. So you are advocating removing incentives. Which makes sense in terms of your objective. Thanks for explaining.
I guess my bent is to not interfere the little guy, the small timer that buys one or two SFH’s and rents them out. If there is a market to do so than let the market do its thing. That just reflect my general free market perspective.
Interest on debt is almost always universally allowed as a deduction in business. So I support it here. In this case it really isn’t a MID in the personal sense - just a business expense. If disallowed they would just form an S-Corp and buy the house and deduct the interest anyway.
Your point about using subsidized government money to buy is a good one. Again I like the free market - keep the government out of it. If the business plan is sound then the small guy can use his own money or find a hard money lender and pay *market* rates. There is no reason the tax payer should be in the game of subsidizing this and no reason for the tax payer to take a loss if the investor fails. I agree with you point.
As much as possible I like to keep the government out of the market. I don’t think the government knows better than a small time investor if SFH rentals are good or bad.
Another issue is a lot of people become SFH rental landlords because they buy a new home and keep the old one as a rental. So there is an overlap between purchases made using subsidized loans for personal use and SFH rentals held for investment. It’s hard to take this subsidy away from one and keep it for the other since the two are fungible.
Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing the government out of the whole SFH market - just let the market work. That means no GSE’s.
How To Fix The Housing Market
http://scoopsandiego.com/online_features/money_and_finance/how-to-fix-the-housing-market/article_2275e590-ad1b-5d63-816d-fd8a4a131f27.html
(NAPSI)—At the height of the financial crisis in 2008, the U.S. government bailed out our nation’s banks and nationalized our home mortgage system.
Four years later, most of those bailouts have ended and taxpayers have been repaid in full. Unfortunately, that is not the case for mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Remarkably, they remain in government control, continue to dominate the mortgage market, and still owe taxpayers over $140 billion.
Neither Congress nor the White House has a viable plan to get that money back or to get the government out of housing finance. As a result, taxpayers—not banks or investors—are now on the hook for trillions of dollars of mortgage risk. And the government continues to add to that risk, accounting for over 90 percent of new mortgage credit today, double the amount it provided just a few years ago. Even worse, recent actions in Washington threaten to make Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac permanent wards of the state.
Moreover, millions of potential homeowners cannot get a mortgage because private sources of housing credit are scarce. Many of those private sources cannot compete with the government.
Your elected representatives in Washington aren’t paying attention to this problem!
But there is a plan to fix it. Former officials from the Obama and Bush administrations, Jim Millstein and Phillip Swagel, have crafted a way to restart private housing markets, ensure access to affordable 30-year mortgages, protect taxpayers from future bailouts, and repay them for saving the two largest sources of housing finance in our country: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Millstein and Swagel discussed their plan in their recent article for The Washington Post.
Call your representatives in Congress. Let them know that we need to end the last bailout and the nationalization of our home mortgage system. Go to http://www.whoismyrepresentative.com to tell them that you support housing finance reform.
Under a new proposal to restructure the housing market, the mortgage guarantee businesses would be privatized.
“Four years later, most of those bailouts have ended and taxpayers have been repaid in full.”
-1 I stopped right here. Propaganda!
The TARP was payed back, but that was just a side show. Fed Res bailouts and the AIG crap were the real bailouts. That and throwing out accounting standards.
“Moreover, millions of potential homeowners cannot get a mortgage because private sources of housing credit are scarce. Many of those private sources cannot compete with the government.”
Can’t compete with the government or don’t want to? 3.5% down payments, high debt/income ratios, little savings. No wonder “private sources” aren’t lining up to write mortgages.
That’s just part of it. The other part is that the industry lobbied for those assistance programs so they could generate processing fees.
Yet of all things…. it’s the primes that are the leading defaulters.
Go figure.
Here’s a “fun” one.
Latest Threat to SoCal Housing Market: Climate Change
by Jeff Kaufman
http://www.kcet.org/shows/socal_connected/rawfeed/from-the-control-room/latest-threat-to-socal-housing-market-climate-change.html
…..nature abhors a vacuum. So maybe it isn’t surprising that the latest dark cloud on the state’s economic horizon may be climate change. If, as scientists predict, sea levels along the California coastline rise four and a half feet over the next century, about $2,500,000,000 worth of real estate in the state would be under water. Not underwater meaning your home is worth less than the amount you owe on your mortgage, but underwater meaning your house now functions as an artificial reef.
about $2,500,000,000 worth of real estate in the state would be under water That has to be a gross underestimate. Losses due to inundation will more likely be in the quadrillions. We all know real estate only goes up in value, and California coastal real estate will go to infinity - and beyond! Look at the bright side. When the current coastline goes under, NEW coastline will then be created!
I bought at 500′ up for just this reason. Of course, if we inflict trillions of dollars of losses on the bay area from sea level rise, my house may be worth the same as a house in detroit. Power and Gas will likely be gone, too. But at least I won’t have to build a dyke.
We love climate change! It will be 70 degrees here today, leaving work early to go trail running on Mt Falcon.
So is it global cooling in the midwest and east?
It’s global-what-Al-Gore-decides-it-is. Now go buy some carbon credits!
It will be 70 degrees here today ??
I am constantly amazed at how good the weather is in Colorado…Such beautiful country and you get pretty darn good weather also…Enjoy your run…
Colorado: Mostly sunny, chance of wildfires and whiteouts.
I am constantly amazed at how good the weather is in Colorado
No it’s not, in fact, it’s horrible! We’re at least knee deep in snow 10 months a years. Whatever you do, don’t move here. Please don’t move here.
I’d be interested to see US migration patterns (over say the past 50 years) displayed as vectors similar to a wind pattern.
Offset by the Midwesterners who come via CA to OR (where the weather is worse than CA but better than the Midwest), I hear many tales of native Oregonians moving to Colorado who have no plans to move back due to the lack of liquid sunshine in CO.
I don’t believe you…Nice try….
My son lived in Denver for awhile…I know what the weather is like…I am on my way…Bringing all my california relatives with me also…Any homes for sale next to you ??
>i>Any homes for sale next to you
There was almost nothing for sale last summer in my nabe.
It’s clearly high time to invest in Greenland housing…
I’m sure this didn’t hurt Pres. Obama in Ohio but the Auto bailout was probably key there.
Northeast Ohio housing market feeds on strong rebound
http://www.wksu.org/news/story/33845
Home sales jump more than 17 percent so far this year compared to the same period last year.
Home sales in Northeast Ohio are rebounding in a big way so far this year. Sales increased more than 17 percent from January through October compared to the same period last year. The total amount of money that changed hands also increased, by more than 22 percent.
The figures cover 17 counties from Cuyahoga to Cochocton and from Mahoning to Medina.
Carl DeMusz of the Northern Ohio Realty Multiple Listing Service says Northeast Ohio’s housing market is back to the levels of the year 2000.
I live in NE OH. I really doubt “Northeast Ohio’s housing market is back to the levels of the year 2000.” I regularly visit open houses within a couple of miles of where I live, several have had their asking prices cut. Once a showing agent told me she thought the asking price was much too high & that the owner would probably accept less than the listing! Some Real Estate industry boomerism on display in the source article.
I am still puzzled by the money would-be sellers put into ‘upgrading’ their homes, yet they very often neglect the obvious but not flashy improvements, such as installing adequate exhaust fans in the kitchens and bathrooms, and having basement appliances installed as far off the floors (to prevent flood damage) as possible.
When we moved out of Lakewood in 2009 our building was half vacant and all the other Gold Coast buildings on Edgewater Dr and Lake Ave had vacancies.
Used to live not far from there myself. Nice area. I once thought of buying a multifamily there but as you say, lots of multifamily buildings in that area and lots of vacancies. Doesn’t inspire confidence.
I’ve been walking this same neighborhood since 1980, and see more vacant housing, that stays vacant for months, than ever before. Some of that, of course, is due to the fact that the original owners from the 1950’s are moving out &or or dying off, seemingly all at once.
What you say reminds me of the Garfield Heights area. I have relatives (at about the age you mention) there and on a recent visit I couldn’t believe all of the vacant houses I saw. It was 2-3 out of every 10 houses.
Sad. Never saw that on visits as a kid/teen 25+ years ago…
the Garfield Heights area
Is a wasteland. As is Maple Heights, Warrensville Heights, and much of the inner ring 440 suburbs, with the exception of Beachwood.
I live in NE OH. I really doubt “Northeast Ohio’s housing market is back to the levels of the year 2000 ??
So what are you suggesting ?? Are they below or above that ??
When I refer to a housing market, I think of not only the prices of housing, but real estate taxes, employment in the area, crime, how easy it would be to sell a SFR, etc. It’s not good here, but I know other parts of the US are much worse off.
A rebound? A rebound in sales? That’s what happens when prices crater 70%.
FWIW, low end sales (in the 200K range) in my little burg rebounded after maybe a 15% drop. Not back to bubble levels (that definitely won’t happen), but sales are up, however modestly. And I’m seeing something that had been absent for years: new construction.
Chow: “Down”
‘Day of Reckoning’ Looms for Asia’s Priciest Property Markets
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49912522
Weak economic growth, oversupply and measures to keep a lid on house prices suggest that Asia’s priciest property markets, Singapore and Hong Kong, now face a ‘day of reckoning’ after several years of robust gains, Nomura analysts warn.
Singapore property prices surged 50 percent between 2007 and 2011, driven partly by foreign buying. While developers reacted to the rise by ramping up homebuilding, the market now faces oversupply.
Nomura analysts Min Chow Sai and Paul Lin said a surge in the number of apartments expected to be put up for sale next year will curb house-price increases and some developers may even have to slash prices.
They expect the number of homes due for completion next year could reach 42,309, including 24,551 public-housing units built by the government. This compares with the estimated 21,859 units completed this year and the average annual housing demand of just under 20,000 units since 2001.
But can they make twinkies?
Bill George: What Minnesota can learn from Germany
http://www.startribune.com/business/136776593.html?refer=y
Germans are well-paid, have excellent health care and pension benefits, and save 11 percent of their income. Yet German health care costs only 9 percent of GDP compared with 17 percent in the U.S.
Politically, the country operates like a grand coalition, with narrow differences between moderates on both sides. Politicians put the country’s interests ahead of their parties. A decade ago the government went through a restructuring that moderated the cost of wages and benefits to be competitive with Asian countries. Germany is fiscally responsible: inflation is just over 1 percent, and deficits are 3.3 percent of GDP compared with 11 percent for the U.S.
German industrial strategy focuses on sectors where its technology and highly skilled workforce provide competitive advantage: machine tools, automobiles and auto parts, chemicals, electrical equipment and construction. Its financial sector finances German industry at home and around the world. It operates with conservative ratios that enabled most German banks to escape the 2008 financial meltdown.
Leading German companies like Siemens, BMW, Volkswagen, Daimler, BASF, and Thyssen-Krupp are flourishing these days. But there are deeper reasons for Germany’s success: relationships between labor and management; its apprentice system, and the Mittelstand — small and medium-size privately held enterprises.
Labor-management relations. German unions have long practiced “co-determination” with management on corporate boards, but their approach differs dramatically from American counterparts. They are committed to ensuring that their companies do well, produce superior products, and are cost-competitive. Work rules are flexible. Strikes are rare. They focus on collaborative relationships to make their enterprises competitive on a world scale.
Apprentice system: German education utilizes a rigorous system of preparing students for jobs and careers. Students are divided into those who enter gymnasium (high school) to prepare for university education and others who are better suited for careers in skilled positions in 342 recognized trades. They complete their education prepared for a career suited to their talents; dropouts are rare. Those in skilled-labor tracks move into three-year apprenticeships where they learn specific skills…
…Mittelstand companies. These small and medium-sized firms are export-oriented and focus on high-value manufactured products utilizing skilled apprentices. Typically, they are rural and privately owned and occupy worldwide niche market leadership positions.
The US can learn some things from Germany, but the two countries are not really comparable. Germany is better off now because the greatest German general (Eisenhower) of WWII was leading the other side.
“Germany is better off now because the greatest German general (Eisenhower) of WWII was leading the other side.”
You should Google: “Eisenhower and the Morgenthau Plan.”
Apprentice system: German education utilizes a rigorous system of preparing students for jobs and careers. Students are divided into those who enter gymnasium (high school) to prepare for university education and others who are better suited for careers in skilled positions in 342 recognized trades. They complete their education prepared for a career suited to their talents; dropouts are rare. Those in skilled-labor tracks move into three-year apprenticeships where they learn specific skills…
I think that such a thing would work well in the United States. I live in a university town and I see way too many kids who have no business in college.
That makes me furious. There are SO many college students that are more suited for trades, and they are creating an oversupply. They are indoctrination to think if they don’t go to a university, they failed in life. I hated how high school would constantly remind us of college, yet most of my classmates HATED learning.
By the way, one of the more popular majors for students who don’t belong there is nursing. It’s pretty scary…
Two words: disparate impact.
One thing to understand about the German mindset is that there is a definite “right way” of doing things. “Git ‘er done” does not exist in their lexicon. Either do it the right way or don’t do it at all.
“One thing to understand about the German mindset is that there is a definite “right way” of doing things. “Git ‘er done” does not exist in their lexicon. Either do it the right way or don’t do it at all.”
+1 And charge accordingly — no discounts!
It would never work here. We can never change enough to work together for the common good.
In Germany you can get diagnosed with a “weak” heart and sent to a spa for 4 weeks.
Extend and pretend saves the planet?
I had to LOL when paying the bills this morning, From citibank, I quote:
“Thank you for helping save another tree. Because you have not made a payment by mail during the last three months, we may have removed the remit envelope from your statement”
The reason I haven’t paid by old fashioned postal mail for many years is I online bill pay. No idea why I haven’t gotten around to online statement delivery too. Soon enough. Anyway I’m thinking most people getting that line on their statement are in a different situation, deadbeat mortgage loanowners, so I had to LOL at the tiptoeing around the financial problem to get a little politically correct enviromentalist pat on the head for not wasting envelopes on mortgages that will never be paid.
An amusing anecdote, but it contains an interesting fact that citibank thinks if you haven’t paid your bill in three months, you’re probably never going to pay it again, which is an interesting (useless?) data point. I’m surprised they give up so soon.
I don’t read the situation the way you did. It just makes sense for a lender not to send reply envelopes when a creditor tends to pay online. I prefer to have printed statements delivered to me, so I am able to document what is owed & expected, even though I pay everything online also. Too many things can go wrong when all your finances are in the cloud.
This is clearly the proper reading. My utility did the same thing–we always pay online (although we like getting the paper statement) and they removed the envelopes they send with the statement. It makes sense. The envelopes were always a courtesy anyway; you can always still send a check with the stub, using your own envelope!
Paying a too-big-to-fail institution is just a waste of time and resources. Its much easier for them to get paid if you don’t pay them. They can simply scam the government for more money than you could ever pay them. Just let them do it.
Now if they could be persuaded to stop sending those unsolicited checks in the mail.
But those checks make such wonderful compost!
Sounds about right.
Greatest Real Estate Bubble In Modern History Not Done Bursting
Harry Dent, Contributor
10/03/2012 @ 2:43PM
The real estate bubble is like a popcorn popper with different markets frothing over and peaking at different times, but all will burst ultimately. Given that real estate is so local, the best way to gauge the downside potential of your home or commercial real estate is to find out what it was worth at the beginning of 2000 at best and the beginning of 1996 at worst. If you can’t take that much heat consider selling and renting for the next three years plus. From around early 2015 forward we could see the greatest bargains in real estate of our lifetime.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/10/03/greatest-real-estate-bubble-in-modern-history-has-yet-to-really-burst/ - 76k -
http://phys.org/news/2012-11-curiosity-earth-shaking-discovery.html
“In an interview on NPR today, MSL Principal Investigator John Grotzinger said a recent soil sample test in the SAM instrument (Sample Analysis at Mars) shows something ‘earthshaking.’”
Has to be evidence of life, right?
maybe its a human?
Maybe urine?
(some lazy stage hand didn’t wanna take the hike to the bathroom)
I’m guessing it’s a candy wrapper.
Evidence SEIU was getting Martians registered as voters for Obama and was getting campaign contributions.
It found that Timex watch that John Cameron Swayze lost on live TV decades ago.
A twinkie ??
Curiosity found some “blood crystals” Bwahahaha, Bwahahaha, Bwahahaha
Looks like the MSL is taking a page from the Donald’s playbook.
Weeks from now when they come forward it will be something inane that will leave most people saying “huh?”
Segway.
“something ‘earthshaking.’””
The communist mother ship?
Obama’s martian birth certificate?
I seldom look back at past postings, but since I hadn’t been on line in a couple of days, I thought I would see if there was any intelligent commentary around some of my posts. There wasn’t, but I found this particular post astounding.
It concerned my comments about Danzig at the Start of WWII, which was a comment about border wars from the prior comments about the Greece/Bulgarian secession commentary. My presentation was that WWII began over the City of Danzig and the claim by the German Leadership that the Versailles Treaty was illegitimate, taking a portion of Germany and giving it to Poland. Danzig was 90 to 95% German. I won’t go into all the details of the controversy. It is a historical fact that this was what precipitated the War. To which I received the following post:
Comment by pdmseatac
2012-11-19 18:29:35
Huh!!? You are actually saying that Germany took back Danzig, then England declared war and this was what led to WW2 ?!
This is the most spectacularly ignorant thing I have read in this blog. Even the Nazi propaganda from 1939 wasn’t this stupid.
I found that absolutely astounding that someone with a Jr. High Civics education should post such commentary. The “most spectacularly ignorant thing I have read on this blog”.
Really? Well, here genius. Here’s a brief excerpt from just a simple Google of WWII and Danzig.
Look it up, and see if you find any concensus:
There are few dates in recent human history that cause more of an emotional stir in historians than that of September 1, 1939. On this day, Adolph Hitler, then chancellor of Germany declared to his parliament (Reichstag) that enough was enough that Danzig in Poland was a German city full of German people and should be taken back.
The fact that it is the date that signals the beginning of World War II and the dramatic reformatting of the European landscape and culture is a matter of hindsight. In 1939, Hitler invaded Poland.
Because of a pact Britain and France had with Poland, they were forced to declare war on Germany on September 3 and just like the First World War, nation after nation followed suit until the disastrous global conflict was played out once again, only this time religion and ethnic persecution would play a large and deadly role.
I pulled those excerpts off another blog, but you can do your own research.
http://blog.aurorahistoryboutique.com/world-war-ii-begins-germany-occupies-danzig-poland-september-1-1939/
I did note the other comments on my attempt to post something humorous concerning the “Ich bin ein Berliner”, to find that “factcheck” and “snopes” are the most reliable sources to refute the claims of native German speaking people, who really ought to know what something means in their own language.
I’ve noted that there are some people here that simply want to try and refute anything some of us have to say. It’s grown tiresome and the blog is much less informative than it was 3 years ago.
The usual offenders seem to have ALL DAY, everyday, to post on this site. Obviously, they don’t have much else to do, except to try and parse every word in a text and find some way to twist it around to say something else in order to “win” some argument. I don’t have the time. It is unfortunate that the level of conversations have declined over time, but I think we lost some of the best posters who have grown tired of the commentary of others. After reading such drivel to some of my posts, I am inclined to join them.
As a contrarian by nature, I feel the need to make the conservative argument. I would miss your posts since this site has lost balance
Let’s stay focused on the real issues, like that Obama eats dog meat:
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/national/romney_aides_point_out_obama_ate_pCetn9EcM0lOYNiJFl1zgI
thanks for wasting my time. Seriously. your post made my life worse and made me stupider. You have succeeded in making the world just a tiny bit worse because of your actions. This is not sarcasm. Please change your ways.
From an old country song:
He said, “Boy, I see you’re a scrapper so just before you fall,
I’m gonna tell you just a little bout what it means to be a winner.”
He said, “Now you see these bright white smilin’ teeth? You know, they ain’t my own.
Mine rolled away like Chiclets, down the street in San Antone.
But I left that person cursin’ nursin’ seven broken bones,
And he only broke ah three of mine, that makes me the winner!”
He said, “Now behind this grin I got a steel pin that holds my jaw in place,
A trophy of my most successful motorcycle race.
And each morning when I wake and touch this scar across my face,
It reminds me of all I got by bein’ a winner.
Now this broken back was the dyin’ act of a handsome Harry Clay,
That sticky Cincinnati night I stole his wife away.
But that woman she gets uglier and she gets meaner every day
But I got her, boy, that’s what makes me a winner.”
I appreciate that you took your time to post this Diogenes. Unfortunately I agree with much of what you have to say. There are painful facts of history that some people can’t tolerate and don’t want other people to learn about because it undermines a narrow world view that they are trying to push. History has many lessons and it is *never* wrong for people to learn what really happened.
“Because of a pact Britain and France had with Poland, they were forced to declare war on Germany on September 3″
Yeah, but did they declare war on the Soviet Union too?
Correct me if Im wrong but wasn’t it a joint dismemberment of Poland?
If so, why were the Soviets given a pass?
That would have made Germany their ally on the eastern front.
What I meant was why did the British and French give the Soviets a pass when they engaged in the same behavior as the Germans?
Poland got sold out:
hoodwinked
flim-flammed
Bamboozled…
What I meant was why did the British and French give the Soviets a pass when they engaged in the same behavior as the Germans?
Answer: There are no simple answers.
The US wanted the USSR as an ally on the East.
Whenever your “allies” take possession of a territory, they will claim to be “liberating it”.
We sided with USSR and funded their military.
We should have sided with Hitler and invaded Russia, taken out Stalin, and made the world safe for democracy. Stalin was a bigger butcher than Hilter ever dreamed to become, but there is bad blood between Russians and Germans and French for centuries.
A large contingent of Russians did leave Russia and join the German forces and fought in German uniforms against the Stalin Regime. They were sympathetic to the former Czar. At the end of the war, they were not treated as enemy troops, but taken as political prisoners and returned to Russia where they were summarily executed as traitors. It was a shameful act by the so-called “Allies”. Under the UN Conventions, they were German Soldiers and Prisoners of War. In war, there are no rules. The victor determines what rules apply.
They also write the history. Most of the losers aren’t around to write any history.
Obviously, the Soviet Union had better lobbyist in London.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
In response to your last line, please don’t leave. I actually scroll through and read posts by certain people and you’re one of them. I know what you mean though, I’ve actually gotten to the point (after reading this blog since the beginning, or close to it) that I have started to skim over certain posts. Where’s Mike in Bend, he’s another that I liked reading?
Why I’m in Bend, of course.
Had better luck at work and health wise lately; with two active middle schoolers I seem to be too busy to engage much here. Plus I have said my piece enough times at this point.
Thanks for reading my posts; I still read and will post; BTW I like your screenname. It is descriptive in a lighthearted way. And receiving a nod; not everyone has expressed liking reading my POV. I have had some trouble by not reading as much figuring out who is who with all the handle changing that has occurred over the last year.
It warms my heart to hear that your kids keep you busy. They will be grown too fast and you will actually look back on this hectic time as one of the best in your life. Credit goes to Oxide for the name since it was her Far Side cartoon (she posted) that struck me and fits me. I’m a new poster here, but have read (this blog) since near the beginning. Glad to hear that things are good in your life. Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving with your family!
My in-laws are moving to Seattle, WA (the eastside), and their preference is to buy a place. I spend the past 3 days with them looking for potential places….and wow, this blog still has a place. People have lost their minds once again.
We first checked out two new communities: both were sold out, and yet there’s a steady flow of folks driving by. The agents have the same cockiness as around 2005, and prices getting up there. One builder increased his prices by $30k over the past month, and still was sold out for inventory until next June. i.e. folks bought houses where construction hadn’t even started. In a third new community, the posted hours were 11am - 5pm. We drop by at noon, no one is there….we call the agent, turns out she is late. The complacency is back, all realtors have to do is hold up their lazy hands and collect the dough! I had a few informal chats with listing agents, all had the same talking points, roughly: “market is redhot, interest rates are low, pricing pressure is building, we’re running out of land, great time to buy.”
In my immediate area, there are 78 houses on the market. According to redfin, 56 of those 78 are pending, and 22 are for sale. i.e. anything palatable is snooped up immediately. I then called a realtor acquaintance, he said: “I’ve written up several offers for houses on the the (seattle) eastside over the past month; all had at least 3 offers.” We had less than 1 month of inventory here now. If you remove the crap/overpriced listings, we probably have about 2 weeks of inventory.
To top it all off, my inlaws did find a house they liked. However, the listing agent said “Sorry, it’s almost Thanksgiving, no more showings. If you want to see the house, submit a full-price offer and I’ll see what I can do. No promises.” hahahahahahaahahahaha!!!!
Even my in-laws (hardened believers in homeownership, agree that now is a great time to rent. They are now looking for rentals, which you can get for $1200-$1400/month.
Thanks for listening. Times continue to be interesting here in Seattle, WA. I’ll be visiting more regularly here….
Interesting.
Sale prices are DOWN M-o-M and Q-o-Q in Seattle.
See for yourself.
http://www.zillow.com/local-info/WA-Seattle-home-value/r_16037/#metric=mt%3D19%26dt%3D1%26tp%3D5%26rt%3D8%26r%3D16037%26el%3D0
Trust me, it ain’t. Thankfully, we now have very good metrics to track market health. A l ocal fellow blogger tracks the market meticulously…well beyond the media’s headline-tracking.
Check out the seattlebubble.com website, or here’s an article on Case Shiler - you can see the market went up. inventory really dried up over the past year. I see more price pressure over the next 12 months unless the FHA blows up…which I hope it will. Until then, madness straight ahead.
http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/10/31/case-shiller-tiers-low-tier-hits-break-even/
IMO, real estate prices going up because inventory available is going down, is not evidence of an “up” market. Just an expensive and sick one.
“Trust me, it ain’t.”
Trust me, prices are falling. You “chart” ends in Aug2012. Prices resumed their downtrend in Sept and are currently falling in Seattle.
The Zillow 5 year price graph shows a modest downward trend. MoM and QoQ down a bit YoY is up slighty. Price per square foot is up a bit by all comparisons, and sales volumes are way up.
The 10 year price graph is the most interesting. Not much of a correction at all.
We may have to agree to disagree here, Pimp Watch :).
I see inventory way down, at 12 year lows. Multiple bids…houses selling for $50k above what they sold for recently. There are no good deals to be had in this area compared to 1 year ago.
Whether you agree or disagree has no bearing on it. If “agreeing” with someone is your goal, you’re not interested in the truth.
Seattle proper is a in a spiral downward.
Why are your in laws moving? Is to downsize but stay in same area? Or is it a cross country move to be closer to kids/grandkids? And why do they need to be in this particular area you mention? In most areas, if you are willing to be slightly flexible within 5-10 miles, you can get significantly lower prices on a very similar product.
It’s always seemed a little weird to me when people 60+ are rushing to buy something. Small-time landlords will often knock 10% off rental prices to get a retiree/pensioner into their property, especially if it will be just a married couple with no kids or grandkids involved. Additionally, I don’t see why anyone would want to a) take on a mortgage that may never get paid off or b) lock up all their cash in a cash purchase.
Thanks for the comment. I’m with you.
I thought they coudl buy in Bothell. I rented there myself until the bubble burst, until my landlord went bankrupt. I rented a place for $1200/mo, and the guy paid $420k for it. It eventually foreclosed and was sold in auction for $250k. But, now the prices are back up to $350k again for the same stick-row townhouses. In short, even 5-10 miles out it’s madness. The new communities I mention above are all in Bothell (10 miles north) and Redmond Ridge (7 miles east). There’s nothing out there right now. i wish it weren’t so.
You never really answered my questions about why they are looking to move? And if they are retired or will continue to work for a while?
I also think the transportation angle is interesting. At some point, many older people would be better off living in a safe area of a city*, near transportation and health care. For example, the perfect place near where I live (Baltimore) would be Mt Washington or in one of the new-ish senior communities in the Canton/Fells Point area. All of these are affordable, but perhaps smaller floor plans than your in laws would want if they are used to having a big house. That said, they’re close to shopping, first rate hospitals, excellent walking/biking/boating, and cultural amenities.
* as opposed to a suburb or exurb, which might appear safer but are less safe for older people because of reduced driving ability, less interaction with other seniors, and longer distance to medical care
as opposed to a suburb or exurb, which might appear safer but are less safe for older people because of yet another imponderable, the death of ‘happy motoring’ that James Kunstler likes to rant about. Rationed gasoline or gas over $10 a gallon would really put a crimp on suburban living. Living in an area where public transportation is available may become very important in years to come.
James Kunstler
We love his books and blog. The “Long Emergency” he predicted has yet to happen but hurricane Katrina was a nice preview of what happens when a Just-In-Time delivery system breaks down.
Hey Goon, I haven’t read the book, but Im familiar with his interpretation. My position is in the begining, it occurs more or less on an individual basis, then as it pick up steam, it occurs in collectively larger and larger groups.
I knew several people living in houses without elec or gas, two years ago.
Kunstler’s future vision is probably more accurate than the others (riots/chaos…) because it accounts for “laziness”.
As a side note, Im doing research and was wondering if any of you big brains out there know which president started the trend of calling citizens when they did something great or vast?
Was it Nixon calling the astronauts?
or did Johnson do it before him?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks everyone! We’ll continue to explore our options. Appreciate all the input.
Why are your in laws moving? Is to downsize but stay in same area? Or is it a cross country move to be closer to kids/grandkids?
I have the same questions.
A suggestion, especially if they are new to the area. How many cars do they have? If one or none, have they considered a condo in S Lake Union? Lots of restaurants and access to all things Seattle. Given how much they’ve built down there, there are probably lots of vacant units. My suggestion is to RENT there for 12 months until they know where they want to settle.
I love the Pacific Northwest….Use to live in Bellevue, long, long, ago…
“People have lost their minds once again.”
It never stopped. People just sat on the sidelines and waited to start bidding wars again. The shadow inventory even today in late 2012 is still 10 times larger than the housing that’s visible to the marketplace. It can be dribbled out, to feed more bidding wars by morons. There’s no shortage of morons.
That being said, stop putting qualifiers like “palatable” on your market demand and whole new vistas of inventory suddenly appear to you. I did that in 2008 and was greatly rewarded. My cost of ownership is less than $30/sf. Yes, less than thirty dollars per sq foot. You can get well under $100/sf if you just stop trying to stay in ultra-White areas with the most expensive schools.
“My cost of ownership is less than $30/sf. ”
And there it is. Truth. Reality. Value.
And how can this be? Well….. First it requires a fundamental understanding of the value of a dollar. Not a borrowed dollar. An earned dollar. Second, it requires an understanding of depreciation. What is the value of a new item?(see step 1). Then, what is the value of the used item relative to to the new item.
It’s not calculus. It’s understanding the value of a dollar. And you don’t get that understanding until you’ve had to sweep a few floors, dig a few trenches by hand, repeatedly say no to yourself when standing in front of an item you really want…… with cash in your pocket.
Damn straight, PW. The dollars I used to purchase my housing were all my own. No borrowed dollars whatsoever. So I went from auction to auction for months, trying to win with a low bid. (All those were absolute auctions.) Persistence paid off. I did look at a few HUD-owned houses, which weren’t up for auction. In fact, if my winning bid didn’t make it, I had planned to simply make an offer on a HUD place the next day for less than $20/sf. There were no offers pending that I could see, and the price had dropped a week before. So I would have obtained that place if not my current one.
Ed DeMarco, Top Housing Official, Defies White House; Geithner Fires Back
Posted: 07/31/2012 2:29 pm Updated: 08/01/2012 2:05 pm
The housing regulator also restated his position that allowing some homeowners off the hook for some of what they owe would pose “a moral hazard.”
“This could give borrowers who are current on their mortgages a message that the government endorses forgiving a portion of mortgage debt if hardship can be demonstrated, creating a very broad incentive for underwater borrowers to seek ways to become eligible.”
He also repeated his argument that steps Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are already taking, such as reducing the interest rate on loans and offering to postpone, or “forbear,” mortgage payments, will help struggling borrowers without posing the moral and financial hazards that come with reducing the value of a loan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/31/ed-demarco-principal-reduction_n_1724880.html - 395k -
——————————————————————————–
The Conscience of a Liberal
Paul Krugman
July 31, 2012, 2:56 pm
Fire Ed DeMarco
Do it now.
Who? you ask. DeMarco heads the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees Fannie and Freddie. And he has just rejected a request from the Treasury Department that he offer debt relief to troubled homeowners — a request backed by an offer by Treasury to pay up to 63 cents to the FHFA for every dollar of debt forgiven.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/fire-ed-demarco/ - 60k
“The Conscience of a Liberal”
I must not have one of those, as I am missing the point of this rant.
If you click on the Krugman link that`s what it says, I just copied it. It wasn`t a rant either, just what Ed DeMarco said…
“This could give borrowers who are current on their mortgages a message that the government endorses forgiving a portion of mortgage debt if hardship can be demonstrated, creating a very broad incentive for underwater borrowers to seek ways to become eligible.”
and what Krugman said about him …
“Fire Ed DeMarco” “Do it now.”
“Fire Ed DeMarco” “Do it now.”
Suppose DeMarco called for Krugman to be fired, for defamation of character? What has DeMarco done wrong? It seems like he is one of the few players in the mix who are actually acting on principle, instead of cooking up seat-of-the-pants hair-of-the-dog rescue plans.
hmmm… wow.
It looks like SF bay area housing prices fell 2% in a single month.
http://www.zillow.com/local-info/CA-Santa-Clara-County-home-value/r_3136/#metric=mt%3D36%26dt%3D1%26tp%3D5%26rt%3D6%26r%3D3136%26el%3D0
Down we go again.
Pimp - thanks for post these data. I’m very interested in the local market.
What I see in the chart you just posted (Santa Clara County Home Prices and Home Values Median sale price / sq. ft. ($)) is that the price / sq. ft. is currently at $370.00. That’s down $0.3% M-o-M, down -0.3% Q-o-Q and up 13.5% Y-o-Y. If you look at the chart you notice that in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 the price rises in the spring then peeks and then drops going into winter each of these years. These drops look seasonal to me. Early winter is usually when you can get the best prices.
In fact so far the drop into winter is smaller this year than any other year according to this chart.
Also according to the chart $370 / sq. ft. is the highest price since late 2008 except for the recent 0.3% drop.
I’m not calling a bottom until we have a few things out of the way in the next few months like the fiscal cliff and a possible impasse on the debt ceiling and / or a credit downgrade and a few other things. I’d also like to get a better idea of the impact on the market of the new 13.3% state income tax rate. But we may know if we have a bottom by the end of next year.
There are a lot of high paying jobs in Santa Clara valley. No not everyone is employed but on the margin there are a lot of buyers with thick wallets.
There are a lot of high paying jobs in Santa Clara valley. No not everyone is employed but on the margin there are a lot of buyers with thick wallets ??
Yep….
Nice distortion…
And worse yet, housing demand cratered 17% Q-o-Q in the bay area and is currently falling. Along with prices.
Federal Workers to Congress: Leave Us Out of Deficit Deal
By Eric Katz, Government Executive
November 20, 2012 | 6:16 p.m.
The Federal-Postal Coalition — a group representing more than two dozen federal employee unions — pleaded with Congress on Monday to spare their members in any deal related to the “fiscal cliff.”
Federal workers, the coalition wrote in a letter, have contributed more than their fair share toward reducing the debt and are the only group that has been targeted so heavily.
“Federal and postal employees and their families are hardworking, middle-class Americans who are struggling during these tough times just like other Americans,” the group wrote. “No other group has been asked to financially contribute the way they have, and it is time our nation’s leaders found other ways to reduce the deficit than continually taking from those who have dedicated their lives to public service.”
Top Democratic lawmakers on committees related to the federal workforce told Government Executive last week that they would like to leave federal-employee benefits out of any potential debt deal. After President Obama’s reelection, top federal unions said they were confident their members would not be targeted in such a deal and a pay raise would be instituted.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/federal-workers-to-congress-leave-us-out-of-deficit-deal-20121120 -
Feds allege Michigan Supreme Court Justice engaged in fraud and money laundering (Detroit News)
Yet no criminal charges have been filed. Lansing — The U.S. government is seeking forfeiture of Michigan Supreme Court Justice Diane Hathaway’s posh second home in suburban Orlando, Fla., claiming she and her husband hid the asset to defraud a bank and escape $600,000 in mortgage debt.
U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade’s civil complaint filed Monday claims the justice and her husband, attorney Michael Kingsley, “systematically and fraudulently transferred property and hid assets in order to support their claim to (ING Direct) that they did not have the financial resources to pay the mortgage on the Michigan property.”
Justice Hathaway, who makes $164,610 annually as a justice, and her husband did not inform ING Direct that they transferred the Windermere, Fla., home to a relative before applying for a short sale in 2011 on a $1.5 million Grosse Pointe Park home on Lake St. Clair, according to the federal forfeiture complaint.
Hathaway, a licensed real estate broker, has been under political scrutiny since May when questions were raised in a WXYZ-TV report about why she and her husband transferred two homes to her husband Michael Kingsley’s children before the short sale.
Didn’t need to read much past the fact that she’s a licensed real estate broker.
Hathaway, a licensed real estate broker
These people cannot be trusted. Ever. Even down to the minute details.
See also article above about suspected serial rapist who is a real estate broker.
Why is a REALTOR a supreme court justice for Michigan? There isn’t enough crack in the world for someone to get high enough to think that’s a good idea.
China is building the world’s tallest building in only 90 days:
http://gizmodo.com/5962070/china-will-build-the-tallest-building-in-the-world-in-just-90-days
5 floors per day!
bwahahahahaha! Hope it’s made better than the Chinese crap at Home Cheapo. But I doubt it.
Look out belowwwwwwww!
Nice! Another unoccupied Taj Mahal. How many million square feet of unoccupied space with that white elephant have?
And 200+ floors? I’d keep a parachute in my desk.
14+ months in 1930-1931 is more impressive to me.
Empire State Building
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Empire State Building is a 102-story skyscraper located in Midtown Manhattan, New York City, at the intersection of Fifth Avenue and West 34th Street. It has a roof height of 1,250 feet (381 meters), and with its antenna spire included, it stands a total of 1,454 ft (443.2 m) high.[6] Its
Excavation of the site began on January 22, 1930, and construction on the building itself started symbolically on March 17—St. Patrick’s Day—per Al Smith’s influence as Empire State, Inc. president. The project involved 3,400 workers, mostly immigrants from Europe, along with hundreds of Mohawk iron workers, many from the Kahnawake reserve near Montreal. According to official accounts, five workers died during the construction.[25] Governor Smith’s grandchildren cut the ribbon on May 1, 1931.
The project was completed ahead of schedule and under budget. Instead of taking 18 months as anticipated, the construction took just under fifteen. Due to reduced costs during the Depression, the final costs totaled only $24.7 million (372.8 million 2012 dollars) instead of the estimated $43 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building - 289k
“Excavation of the site began on January 22, 1930, and construction on the building itself started symbolically on March 17—St. Patrick’s Day—per Al Smith’s influence as Empire State, Inc. president.”
I don’t think they knew by then that they were in a not-so-great depression, and I am certain they did not anticipate the Great Depression during the planning phase of the project.
Do be sure to check out when the project broke even in nominal terms.
Also check out when the project broke even in real terms.
The answers might just be a tad surprising.
“The answers might just be a tad surprising.”
With deflation, you can break even in real terms a lot sooner than in nominal terms, as falling nominal values can be offset by deflation…
The building bleed cash for more than 20 years. It did not start earning money until the mid 1950s.