The Housing Bubble

“Thrift is paradoxical.”

Macro spending vs micro thrift. The micro thrift people need the macro spending people to keep on spending.

The money has to flow from somebody. The thrift people can’t collect money if the spending people don’t spend.

“The money has to flow from somebody.”

How about from the Fed? Get ready to enjoy some reinvigorated monetary stimulus alongside your 2013 ‘fiscal cliff’ austerity…

Fed to launch fresh bond buying to help economy
By Alister Bull
Published December 05, 2012
Reuters

WASHINGTON – The Federal Reserve is set to announce a fresh round of Treasury bond purchases when it meets next week, avoiding monetary policy tightening to maintain support for the weak U.S. economy amid uncertainty over the looming year-end “fiscal cliff.”

Many economists think the U.S. central bank will announce monthly bond purchases of $45 billion after its policy gathering on December 11-12, signaling it will continue to pump money into the U.S. economy during 2013 in a bid to bring down unemployment.

“We expect status quo,” said Laurence Meyer of the forecasting firm Macroeconomic Advisers. “We expect purchases will continue at the same monthly rate as over the last three months; that the composition will be the same, and that the maturities distribution will be the same.”

The decision would cement expectations that the Fed will keep buying a combined $85 billion of Treasuries and mortgage-backed bonds a month, while repeating that it expects to hold interest rates near zero until at least mid-2015.

The Fed could even decide to announce a larger level of purchases if it wanted to exceed expectations and give the market a bigger jolt to press borrowing costs lower.

“If the market expects $45 billion, maybe they should deliver $60 billion … get markets more excited and really push rates down,” said Torsten Slok with Deutsche Bank in New York.
…

The money has to flow from somebody. The thrift people can’t collect money if the spending people don’t spend.

I believe that was Darrell’s point.

Also paradoxical, my suggestion that people batten down the hatches and cut back on their spending.

This is what I think people should do but I really don’t want them to do it - not everybody at least. If everybody did it then the money flow would slow and I would not be able to collect money as easily as I do now.

“This is what I think people should do but I really don’t want them to do it - not everybody at least.”

We’ve been doing our part to keep spending throughout the Great Recession and its aftermath. It’s pretty hard to live in California and do otherwise…

Austerity for thee, but not for me.

Darrell didn’t have a point per se, he had a blunt instrument.

“…he had a blunt instrument…”

…which he used as a cudgel to administer frequent beatings.

I already consider myself pretty thrifty, but I also thought I was fairly flush at the end of this year with no gigantic costs looming - not planning to move, car is still running, travel expenses for T-day were paid off, holiday gifts pretty much done, computer is only a year old, etc. I wondered if this was going to be the year to replace the $25 Craig’s List CRT television. Or get a tablet. You know, something fun.

So instead of just going on instinct, I actually subtracted out everything that is pending and found out what the real situation is. Once my dentist bill for the last appointment arrives and my car insurance for the first 6 months of next year and all that rot is taken care of, I have $400 in the “go ahead, you can spend it” account. Yup. 400 big ones. And looking around, I really need a new pair of sneakers, some trouser socks and a humidifier that can make a dent on the dry air in an apartment this large.

To the extent that it was ever going to happen, the spree has been cancelled. I’ll go pick up the stuff I need in the after Christmas sales.

The question is, what would happen if everyone was this tight? I don’t think that it would be great for the economy as a whole.

Darrell didn’t have a point per se, he had a blunt instrument.

He had a perfectly legitimate point- people can’t pay their debts if they have to borrow money to do so. Either Joe6pack gets more money without commensurate debt, or the debts go poof.

Austerity for thee, but not for me.

A close relative of “It’s not welfare/entitlement/cheese when it benefits me”.

“The money has to flow from somebody.”

Why does the government even bother to offer treasury bonds on the open market when it has a ready buyer at the fed?

Polly
“The question is, what would happen if everyone was this tight? I don’t think that it would be great for the economy as a whole.”
——-

According to what Ive learned from the people on this site, the government would go into debt with a manned mission to Mars, and a “police action” in Asia; since people like you are unwilling to improve the economy by going into debt.

How am I doing?

“He had a perfectly legitimate point…”

Yes, and a simple one at that. The logic leading to that point was torturous and the expounding relentless. That’s all I meant by blunt.

Why does the government even bother to offer treasury bonds on the open market when it has a ready buyer at the fed?

Required to maintain appearances (and therefore “confidence”) I assume.

Polly, most people would wonder how they were going to make that $500 payment on the credit cards.

The logic leading to that point was torturous and the expounding relentless.

There was some of that.

Always leave ‘em wanting more!

Skye,

As I am sure you are aware, that extra $400 is after all the credit card stuff is paid off (including the costs that won’t be “due” or even officially on the card’s statement until January), but I get what you are staying. Could be a car payment too, I guess (I bought my current car for cash 11 years ago).

It is terrifying how on the edge most people live.

Spook,

A manned mission to Mars wouldn’t be enough spending to be a rounding error of a stimulus if everyone lived this way. Another land war in Asia would be more than a rounding error, but then you have that problem with turning able bodied young people into not able bodied slightly less young people at the end of it. Our economy can’t handle a culture that doesn’t prioritize consumer spending.

I saw a great observation in the Economist (Oct 20th, 2012, p. 71, “Game, set and match”):

“Money is not essential to a market. After all, economics is about maximising welfare, not GDP.”

Inciting/enticing people to load up with debt lowers their welfare while increasing GDP.

This is one of the two big paradoxes that I see with government policy. The second paradox is that when government intervenes in market to purportedly make the product more affordable, it winds up becoming more expensive. See education, medical, housing.

Unfortunately, government intervention does enrich cronies of the central planners, so these two paradoxes will continue to be ignored.

“Money is not essential to a market. After all, economics is about maximising welfare, not GDP.”

That seems like a dangerous statement. If properly managed, money offers a great increase in efficiency, by eliminating the double coincidence of wants. Barter imposes high search costs, and the potential inability to find a trading partner.

We are thrifty about “stuff”: try not to buy things we don’t need, fix things that are broken rather than throw them away, DIY whenever possible. etc.

But I will spend money on “experiences”: travel and trips, plays and shows, participating in races and triathlons.

Because when I am lying on my deathbed, how much stuff I have won’t really matter, but what I did with my time on earth will.

Just booked a trip to Hawaii last night. Surf’s up!

but what I did with my time on earth will.

That won’t matter either.

This is what I think people should do but I really don’t want them to do it - not everybody at least.

“Lord, thank you for all the financially irresponsible people out there, who keep spending beyond their ability to afford…”

“Money is not essential to a market. After all, economics is about maximising welfare, not GDP.”

That seems like a dangerous statement. If properly managed, money offers a great increase in efficiency, by eliminating the double coincidence of wants. Barter imposes high search costs, and the potential inability to find a trading partner.

Totally agree. However, it was just to highlight the fact that maximizing welfare should be the focus, not just maximizing arbitrary indicators, potentially at the cost of the general welfare.

“Just booked a trip to Hawaii last night. Surf’s up!”

You are stimulating demand for ’stuff’ (jet airplanes, fuel, suitcases, etc).

But seriously, enjoy! We were there in October…packed some memories for a lifetime into one week.

“…not just maximizing arbitrary indicators,…”

Point taken. Note that all sorts of ‘broken window stimulus’ can increase GDP without necessarily improving the general welfare: wars, increased numbers of citizens serving prison sentences, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc etc etc.

Saving money only gets you poorer because the FED has destroyed the value of thrift with it’s INFLATION over Interest return policy.
If you were getting 5% return in your savings account, and inflation was 3%, then you would Gain by savings, which is the traditional model.

IN order to “pay” for the debts incurred by the government, the FED is playing games with both the money supply (lending to gov) and the rate of return by keeping the FED rate at ZERO.
It’s never been done before, and I consider all the games with buying back bad debt from private banks an Unconstitutional power grab by the FED. Not in their Rules for governing.
However, all this discussion is really rather silly.
Most everyone here seems to assume that the “economy” is some sort of inanimate object whereby people put money into and out of a black box and government is pulling the levers, picking winners and losers.
Austerity for individuals should be Austerity for everyone, including government and government workers. It is a simple act of SPENDING LESS and Consuming Less to make up for past profligacy. And yes, everyone gets cut back. Businesses don’t expand.
Some people go out of business and do something else, often for less money.

But, most people have a DEBT Service they need to maintain, like their mortgage, utilities, car payments and/or repairs, and everyone has a pretty well “fixed” expense level, except when the FED is forcing prices of everything up via “inflation targets”.

The EXCESS in spending above the fixed costs can be either “saved” or spent as “disposable income”. That’s the money either the banks get to loan out, or your local business gets as “income”.
But what happened? The BANKSTERS gave everybody WAY TOO MUCH in “loans”, that couldn’t be paid back and should have been put out of business. This created a fiscal bubble in “economic activity”, on CREDIT.
Does it need to be paid back, or does the FED get to cover the debts of the Deadbeats by money printing to pay the bad debts??

What needs to happen is the DEBTORS need to take their “disposable income” and pay down their loans, to get in balance with the actual real money “saved”. That will take time. IN the meantime, there is less money for stuff. Less buying. BUT, and this is the big But, the debts are repaid and balance is restored, elsewise our economy is a FRAUD.

Savers are only punished because Debtors default, and the solution is for the FED to print up the difference, diluting the currency and destroying the value of the dollar. That is the game we have been playing. The “rich” (mostly banksters and investors in assets) skim off a percentage of the money printing, so they don’t care. The poor get support from government spending, so they don’t care. The Middle gets squeezed dry, losing the value of “savings”.
KILL THE FED. NOW.
And tell that moron “treasury secretary” that OPen-ended spending isn’t going to happen, sorry, you thieving crook.

“INFLATION over Interest return policy.”

AKA monetary tax on savings…

Nowhere to hide?

I made a surefire investment yesterday. I bought a gift for my gf.

“…gift for my gf.”

Excellent decision!

Was she expecting one? If so is it too late to return it?

What needs to happen is the DEBTORS need to take their “disposable income” and pay down their loans, to get in balance with the actual real money “saved”. That will take time.”

Debtor’s won’t pay it back so the Bernake took the bad debt and in turn will get government to raise taxes on everyone to pay off the bad debt ( or at least make a lame attempt to )

Because Bernake knows he doesn’t want the Government to have the debt without a higher income stream to service it, bad for business you know to have all this debt could cause deflation

and a humidifier that can make a dent on the dry air in an apartment this large.

A pan of hot water near-simmering on the stove can work wonders on indoor humidity. I’m assuming you meant winter-time humidification, cause adding humidity in the summer in D.C. make NO sense!

If your heat is electric, and you are doing it during the heating-season, then it is essentially zero-cost, since the efficiency of the waste-heat is the same as your normal heat.

Inasmuch as saving money gets you poorer.

I disagree, Allena.

Yes, the Fed is intentionally eroding the value of my savings.

But the _rate_ of erosion is far lower than the depreciation on most of the cr@p I could buy with it instead.

Ergo, I would be poorer faster by spending it.

“Was she expecting one?”

Not so much. She immediately made sure I was above water though. Synergy.

above water though

LOL… Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

I don’t think that water vapor from the kitchen would do much for the rest of the apartment. My heat and other utilities are included in my rent, so it is too bad that I don’t think it would work very well, because the cost to me is nothing. I’m just going to have to look into a large capacity cool mist something or other.

The first floor of my house is 900 sq feet & I get entirely adequate wintertime humidification from boiling a large pot of water on my kitchen stove, with a fan mounted on the transom of the kitchen doorway so that it blows the humidified air into the living room where I spend most of my day. I have gas forced air heating, which provides additional air circulation.
I can put 2 gallons of water a day into my house’s air with little effort. I do have to check the pot every hour to top off the water, that is the major drawback of boiling. When solid material builds up in the pot, I throw all the liquid out & replace it with fresh tap water. I have used cool mist machines before and have found them troublesome due to the particulate matter they spew all over the house. I don’t know if those particles are harmful, but they can’t be considered helpful. Your can get around this by using distilled water in the cool mister, but that gets expensive after a while. Boiling water vapor is nearly all steam, while perhaps some chlorine from water purification is also released (but the same thing happens with cool mist along with that solid matter).

“I think it is ironic that our HBB pumpers for eat-the-rich have no clue the sights are on them.”

How many folks here on HBB are in the $250-500K income bracket?

Not me, that’s fer sure.

Not me, that’s fer sure….

Point is that you are going to pay. We are all going to pay more and get less. The unicorns are elusive.

Warren Buffett, Bill Gates’ ‘Giving Pledge’ Gets 11 More Billionaires To Pledge Half Of Wealth

Posted: 09/19/2012 12:42 pm

The Giving Pledge, a philanthropic initiative started by the business mogul and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, aims to get the super rich to pledge their fortunes early in their lives, so that they can have more control of how it’s spent.

Signing the pledge comes with the nonbinding agreement to donate at least half of one’s fortune and doesn’t specify how the funds should be distributed, but Gates, who was named the richest person in the U.S. on Wednesday, told the Journal that he sees it as an opportunity for wealthy people to give in a “smarter” way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/warren-buffett-giving-pledge-new-members_n_1896882.html - 331k

I’m not sure you rose to the idea at all, same as other times we’ve said this. There isn’t enough meat on all the uniorns put together, so let’s get realistic about what it will take to solve the debt problem. I am confident that the predators have this figured out, the rest of us not so much.

so let’s get realistic about what it will take to solve the debt problem ??

And, don’t be so narrowly focused on the FED’s…Everyone wants more out of our pockets from DC all the way to your local water service provider…

Rita Norton: 44 percent rate hike by San Jose Water Co. appears …
http://www.mercurynews.com/…/ci…/rita-norton-44-percent-rate-hike-by-s…Sep 27, 2012 – The San Jose Water Co. request for huge rate hikes now before the California Public Utilities Commission has been found by the Division of …

I think some of the applications are for partial disability.

Worth a lot of points on government job apps!

“Others have invisible wounds. More than 400,000 of these new veterans have been treated by the VA for a mental health problem, most commonly, post-traumatic stress disorder.”

In the course of denouncing Joseph Stalin at a public meeting one day, Nikita Khrushchev was interrupted by a voice from the audience: “You were one of Stalin’s colleagues,” the heckler declared. “Why didn’t you stop him?” “Who said that!?” Khrushchev roared. The room was quickly filled with an agonizing silence — finally broken by Khrushchev himself. “Now,” he remarked in a quiet voice, “you know why.”

And almost ALL of them volunteered. They knew the risks of singing on the dotted line

“Why didn’t you stop him?”

Wondering…did Nikita Khrushchev know how to dance?

Go ahead and make their heads explode when you explain public union pensions:

How they will make more in retirement than working
How they can get 2 or even 3 public union pensions
How they can spike their pensions
How they can “retire” on disability and make even more in the pension scam (and still run in marathons)
How they can earn a full pension in 20 years
How to get free medical care for life
How their pension payouts are “guaranteed” by the taxpayer - no matter how badly the market does or how little they put in

Just love those public servants…

Just love those public servants…

Please, let’s stop using that term and allowing government employees to use it. They don’t “serve” the Public. It should be obvious to everyone by now, they only serve themselves.

And all that “hero” talk of firemen, cops and servicemen has really been carried to extremes.
They are not all “heroes”, very few are, but the are ALL skimming their respective governments for money that they could get nowhere in the real world for the jobs they do.
Volunteer fireman and National guard troops never got these plush payouts for their “service”.
Call them what they are: Government Union workers. And calling them “workers” is probably wrong, too. Say Employees.

If they don’t like it they can go back to China and India. I’m sure they’ll be much happier there earning a small fraction of what they make in the Bay Area, since Chinese and Indian cops are paid a pittance in their home countries.

Will they do that? Heck no! They’ll stay here, get their green cards and buy overpriced Silly Valley real estate.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec12/taxes-topped12-12.html

Nice read Michael…Thanks…

“Not everyone with money is solely focused on keeping every penny of it, ”

old company got sold a few months back. the CEO and other senior executives are huge obama supporters. the CEO has a picture of obama in his office. the CEO stood to make around $ 80 million. the deal was to officially close first quarter of next year.

anyhoo…the board passed a measure allowing the senior executives to sell their stock before then (which is very close to the deal price).

they all did…so they can keep more pennies.

they all did…so they can keep more pennies ??

They all do….The board of Oracle just announced a 4 quarter advanced dividend be paid on December 22nd…Larry Elision said he did not vote on the proposal…Larry Elision owns over 1-bil shares of Oracle…His dividend pay-out is $198-mil +…Taxable at that nice 15% rate…

The board of Oracle just announced a 4 quarter advanced dividend be paid on December 22nd

So that’s why we didn’t get raises this year.

old company got sold a few months back. the CEO and other senior executives are huge obama supporters

Blah, blah, unverifiable anecdote, blah, blah…

+1%

According to that NYTimes calculator, the magic number is $384,000 per year income to make you part of the 1%.

“We are in the top 13%, but if we were a childless couple we’d have a ton more money than we do as a family of 4.”

We’re in a similar situation. Officially down to a family of 3 at home, but learning that a child in college can cost more than a child at home.

exactly…yet they use the millionaires/billionaires and corporate jet owner mantra to pass tax increases on the professional wage earning 250+ group.

i have brought this up before, but how many zeros between million and billion? What if you take that many zeros and compare million to that many zeros lower? It is ridiculous to lump them in the same category.

Dale, I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying.

To clarify what I’m saying, why should a couple making, say, $250k pay a higher % of income in taxes than someone making $1 MM, $10 MM, etc. I’m not talking billionaires necessarily. And, for what it’s worth, the consensus on Romney is that Mittens is worth a “paltry” 150-300 MM, not billions.

If our government was serious about raising revenue in some logical way, they would not take a higher % from lawyers & doctors than they take from the .1% .

All hail Mitt — let’s follow his job creating, boot strapping, true American philosophies.

“making people with $100 MM in assets pay…”

You want your assets taxed now too?

Should’ve said “people with 100 MM in assets earning income passively”

In other words, why tax the schlub making 250k at a higher effective rate than someone making several times that largely via investment income.

You want your assets taxed now too?

My primary asset is my 401(k) that’s primarily in “return of assets” rather than “return on assets” categories. Feels like I’m already having mine taxed with the low return and high inflation.

is that our government is not serious in its tax codes ??

Patience grasshopper….Its coming….Bet on it….I am…And, I think its better than 50/50 that it will be far more dramatic than most think…There is no way to politically pick & choose the winners & losers in the current code…They need to hit the re-set button and I believe they will…I Look for the talk to get serious this coming summer….

I hope Republicans will stop the games and allow some kind of fairness in the tax code.

However, if they don’t, we should all make the best of it by reclassifying and sheltering as much income as possible.

God Bless Mitt Romney’s love of country.

However, if they don’t, we should all make the best of it by reclassifying and sheltering as much income as possible.

There’s another option. We can join Buffet and other patriotic rich Americans and pay a little more.

There’s another option. We can join Buffet and other patriotic rich Americans and pay a little more.

Uhhhmmmm… Buffett _advocates_ for paying more, but he does not actually _choose_ to pay more than the code requires. He could. He doesn’t.

Not to mention that he effectively sets his own salary at an extremely low level relative to his job responsibilities, thereby choosing not to pay much in income taxes.

I don’t actually fault him for playing the game as the game is currently structured. But I do hate it when people mis-state what he is actually doing.

“There’s another option. We can join Buffett and other patriotic rich Americans and pay a little more.”

Here’s the problem with that one… if the 2% and 3%ers willingly pay more to be “patriotic”, it’s not enough without the 1% (esp the .1%) pitching in. Also, if only the 2 and 3% crowd chip in, we’ll actually be subsidizing the truly rich people to pay even less. We’ll just make the problem worse in the long run.

No thanks.

As I said before, when Congress decides to take this seriously, then maybe the 2-4% crowd will be on board. Until then… reclassify income and play the game the best ways you can figure out.

at least geithner is now saying the top 2% and wage earners.

Notice how it is creeping down. it was 250K earners, then 250K households. Pretty soon it will be where all the taxpayers are. It has to be.

Uhhhmmmm… Buffett _advocates_ for paying more, but he does not actually _choose_ to pay more than the code requires. He could. He doesn’t.

Link?

He says he doesn’t do anything special to tinker with his taxes- he doesn’t have to!- they’re already tilted so in favor of the rich.

He says he doesn’t do anything special to tinker with his taxes- he doesn’t have to!- they’re already tilted so in favor of the rich.

Ha! That’s a load of cr@p. When Buffett says that, he’s lying.

Exhibit A: His salary is $100K. He is the CEO of a large conglomerate, with revenue in 2011 of US$ 143.688 billion.

Does that make any sense at all, unless you are avoiding taxes? None of his peers earn anything remotely that low.

Sure, he doesn’t thinker with his taxes—he doesn’t have to!—instead he thinkers with his income. Just like all of the other mega-wealthy do.

instead he thinkers with his income. Just like all of the other mega-wealthy do.

He doesn’t tinker with it, he just sells the stock he owns. It would be tinkering to try to somehow turn it into income.

It is tinkering to take a near-zero (from his perspective) salary… He chooses to take all of his income as capital-gains.

Don’t forget that all the children are above average.

Yes they are! Everyone on HBB is above average. Let’s all give ourselves a pat on the back for having never made a bad financial decision in our lives. The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades!

I’ve been told I have a nice smile.

I’m in my own 1%. I don’t allow anyone else in.

“I’ve been told I have a nice smile.”

you sure got a perty mouth.

you sure got a perty mouth.

LOL!

???

I thought babies were wonderful little tax-exemptions!

“…wonderful little tax-exemptions!”

Just wait until they grow up to trash your car, wreck it, drive it to the Mexican border without permission, and have it towed. Not such a great deduction anymore at that point!

Who are the customers?

Are they all trust fund kids patronizing each others yoga studios, dog grooming salons, pirate and candle shops, or do the businesses they are opening create any real value?

Most of them seem to be software developers, with a smattering of bakers and chefs. There is not much of a market for dog groomers and candle shops in Detroit. How do candle shops stay in business anywhere? As for dog groomers, the new shop that opened in my neighborhood is doing a booming business.

“As for dog groomers, the new shop that opened in my neighborhood is doing a booming business.”

Same where I live. There are at least a handful of dog and cat grooming businesses thriving in my area. Not on back streets, but on somewhat pricey areas like Fells Point, O’Donnell Square, Boston Street along the water, etc.

Dog walkers seem to stay busy too. I think they generally charge about $40/wk for a half hour walk once a day on weekdays.

handful of dog and cat grooming businesses thriving in my area
O’Donnell Square ??

I like it…Drop the dog off and head over to Looney’s….

I think they generally charge about $40/wk for a half hour walk once a day on weekdays.

Dog walkers here charge $15- 20 PER WALK.

Now that we own our house we are also boarding dogs. $50.00 per night. Great side business.

Yes, we pulled up all the white carpet they put in to show the house and installed engineered hardwood floors (”handscraped” so the kid’s and dog’s scratches blend in), but we would have done that anyway cuz I hate wall to wall carpeting.

In addition to training, I may find someone to teach me how to groom.

Thar’s money is them thar dogs. Good thing I like dogs a lot.

@ scdave — there are a couple groomers within blocks of Looney’s. I think one might be on the same block, but not 100% sure.

Middle daughter works at Petsmart as a dog groomer.

Worked there about 6 months, then they sent her to a four week dog-grooming school (paid her to go, and paid for the school, just like the good old days)

Was supposed to be a “probationary” groomer for 6-12 months, but a shortage of groomers at her store led them to pull her “probationary” status after 30-45 days, and go on commission.

She has already got a list of “regulars”.Seems a lot of people don’t mind spending some money on their “fur babies/kids”.

More single households = Fewer real kids, more “fur kids” Everything I’m seeing leads me to believe that this trend will continue for a while.

Maybe not a job you would want to do for 40 years, but she’s doing okay, considering that she has ZERO school loans/debt. Or she could start accumulating money and equipment, and open a grooming salon/pet hotel at some point. People want someone they can trust to watch animals when on vacation/business/road trips, and they can’t take the animals with them

People want someone they can trust to watch animals when on vacation/business/road trips, and they can’t take the animals with them

There’s good money in that, and it can be all cash, too. We do it as a side business, anywhere from a couple hundred to a thousand extra per month.

Of course, if you are a renter, good luck with your LL allowing you to train, groom, and board dogs at your house.

There’s good money in that, and it can be all cash, too.

Stated like a true tax cheat. I used to think it was only the dj who was a tax cheat—he kept repeating over and over how nice it was to have an “all cash” business.

I pay my taxes. All of them. Why don’t you people?

Does anyone else see the irony in fact that it seems to be the same people supporting taxing the higher-wage-earners more who don’t even pay their own middle-of-the-road bracket in full?

(Full disclosure: I’d like to see the truly-rich pay at least as much as my marginal rate on their much-higher-than-mine income that is mostly dividends & cap-gains.)

“Full disclosure: I’d like to see the truly-rich pay at least as much as my marginal rate on their much-higher-than-mine income that is mostly dividends & cap-gains.)”

Compliance could be a lot higher if Congress was serious about it. Why don’t they take this seriously? Because the biggest envelope-pushers are the truly rich. If Congress cracked down on the middle & upper middle class, there would be far more interest in seeing rich people actually pay the same effective rates as working schlubs.

sfhomowner

BTW, sfhomowner, if I misinterpreted your “all cash” comment, I apologize.

I’ve just been holding back that “all cash” rant for years, and something snapped today.

Prime I think you have it BACKWARDS….Nobody wants to pay you on the books anymore….so whats left? Bankruptcy or cash?

Stated like a true tax cheat. I used to think it was only the dj who was a tax cheat—he kept repeating over and over how nice it was to have an “all cash” business

dj, there is nothing that prevents you from reporting income from your business, even if the payment is in cash. Think about that.

I do apologize for getting personal in the above comment; that’s not my usual M.O. All I can say is that I was sick, feeling cr@ppy, and had a bit of a hair-trigger I guess.

But it has always bothered me when people talk about the benefits of a cash business, with the implied statement that it’s perfectly ok to cheat on you taxes. It’s not. Cheating on your taxes is pure-and-simple stealing from your fellow citizens.

IMHO, an honest and needed BK is far more honorable than cheating on your taxes.

Prime

I’m not mad at you its just the reality of the New America, companies will not pay you on the books, they totally abuse the intern program, put everyone on a 1099 or just pay cash, I dont like it anymore then you do.

This place is at the epicenter of it, it’s got a map:

http://alsbarlexington.com/?page_id=41

They’ve got really good local-beef burgers. There’s a hippie donut shop across the street that’s supposed to be great, but being hippies, they aren’t open yet when I drive by at 7:30 in the morning! (I’m really not sure when they are open). There’s a gallery and press across the street, and a bistro style place a little down the road, that I’m told is good.

Be warned, this can be a pretty rough area. Don’t park far away at night. If you cab it, it’s sometimes hard to get a cab to come pick you up there late at night, ask the cabbie that drops you off for a name and number, or ask the staff- they can probably get you one.

a road trip to Cincy

I assume you’re familiar with Over-the Rhine?

I’ve heard of over-the-rhine and it’s one of the reasons I want to visit Cincinnati.

Thanks for the travel advice. I am not at all scared of sketchy neighborhoods, I would be driving and would arrive during the day. Locaville is the next large collection of mud huts on the north south trade route. We too have a location where the youth of our extended tribe come together for mating rituals after they have been kicked out of their huts by the elders.

From what?

Kwanzaa?

“Im this close, this close,

to converting to Islam.”

If you do could you try to get someone to maybe add a little color to the Burqas?

For political or divine reasons?

It is possible to avoid debt without an expensive authority structure making you do it.

Relax, Im just kidding.

Everybody knows black guys don’t convert to Islam until they go to prison.

So what have you done? Are the cops outside?

I haven’t done anything,

yet

Sfhomowner: do you lie or just misrepresent. C’mon, fess up.

Dust grinding pimp: why do you keep lying?

You own 2 houses and yet insist that everyone EXCEPT you should rent. What’s up with that?

Sfhomowner: why do you keep lying?

You made a tragic financial error from which you’ll never recover.

Whats up with that?

Dustup, your shtick has gotten really stale. Time to come up with a new routine.

And in walks the gossip queen.

I am still seriously wondering if there is a diagnosis in here somewhere. These comments seem to pop up at right around this time of day.

You and your pom-pom squad can cheerlead yourself right to the poor house.

Oxide, maybe when his medication level gets low?

Here’s what I’m wondering: If he answered that question yet again, would the question be the same tomorrow?

You own 2 houses and yet insist that everyone EXCEPT you should rent.

Maybe if/when he said that he owned two houses, he meant that he has owned two houses in the past.

Take me, for example: I’ve owned two houses.* I sold both. I now own none.

Does anyone have a pointer to RAL’s supposed admission of owning two houses that several posters keep bringing up?

* Both were owned at the same time, but only for a very short period of overlap.

If he answered that question yet again, would the question be the same tomorrow?

You’re right, Blue Skye: asked, and answered. Even I have seen the answer more than once, and I haven’t been able to follow all of the threads the past six months or so due to the time-demands of a new gig.

Why are you folks asking the same question that has been answered more than once?

Dustup, your shtick has gotten really stale. Time to come up with a new routine.

He gets an A+ for tenacity.

An F for honesty, tho.

Everyone here is either a renter or a home owner. Ok, maybe there are a few other options: homeless, a freeloader (your parent’s basement or mooching off a friend or gf/bf), college dorm (basically renting), or living in an RV. Maybe you can add “landlord” to that list.

Defending a position on renting vs. owning with such vociferousness without revealing your personal situation and choices is just cheap noise.

without revealing your personal situation and choices

I saw RAL say very clearly on more than one occasion that he does not own any houses.

Why won’t you take that at face value?

I saw RAL say very clearly on more than one occasion that he does not own any houses.

If I am wrong, then mea culpa, but my recollection is that he said he owned 2 houses.

RAL doesn’t defend renting vs. owning. He throws out nasty personal insults and name-calling, and not much else.

Nothing has changed.

You’re still dead in the water…. and sinking.

Suckers

Comment by Pimp Watch
2012-11-20 15:14:23

I don’t own any houses.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2012-10-31 19:58:53

I don’t own any houses.

Two recent references just provided (took only a few seconds with google)…

Can you point me to where he said he owned two houses? I don’t recall that, though it is possible that I missed it.

RAL doesn’t defend renting vs. owning. He throws out nasty personal insults and name-calling, and not much else.

I’m not defending RAL’s name-calling; I’ve called him on that myself, and asked him to refrain, more than once.

But the “two houses” repetition is getting old, considering that he has flat-out stated multiple times that he doesn’t own any houses… Why keep baiting him like that?

“I don’t own any houses.”

This isn’t much of a riddle for any reader. I expect if he soothed the soul of the debtor and the bubble buyer, no one would ask for his personal details. When one offends us by pointing out our errors, we really only engage them with questions so as to mock.

It doesn’t change that you paid too much, that you are going to get the short end and that you are in denial. The HBB isn’t required to be a warm fuzzy place for you.

RAL saying he doesn’t own two houses is a lie. Or he was lying when he said he owned two. And it wasn’t past tense, it was present. I read it, others did too. We had a round of jokes about it.

Google it? He uses different names every day. Ever wonder why?

But this is from just yesterday:

Comment by The Dust Grinder
2012-12-04 09:25:51

On another note, I know of 3 houses that have been empty since 2009 that I would buy in a second if they were for sale.

He’s just anther house-hunter, jealous of other’s success.

My impression is the Fed and fedgov are doing their best to shift the short end from homeowners to everyone else…

Poor Alpo Slop….. can’t keep her stories straight.

Doomed city. Berry Gordy flipped the bird at Detroit, in favor of LA.

Detroit belongs to the Democrats, and since almost all the whites are gone, the blacks own the city. It should be a beacon of successful businesses, being stripped of any income to support all the “programs” to support the poor, the Democrat government/business relationship. How could that fail??

In other words, they are Americans.

That’s Racist®.

“That’s Racist®.”

Damn!

Is that because the original post made mention of Fat women, or Black women, or both.
Or is it just related to the woman part.
It’s really racist, and sexist, and being a Fat Hata. You Hata. (That’s ghetto for Hater).

Spelling and vocabulary and speech correctness contribute to the problem. It makes communication difficult.

We’re not surprise you’re a welfare case.

+1, Bad Andy.

Simple is good. And simple also has less of a distorting effect on the economy.

+1000

Took the words right out of my mouth, Carl…

+infinity.

…and have been for several recessions now.

@scdave, I think you’re misunderstanding my post from earlier. When I said to reclassify or restructure income, I didn’t mean actually making less. I mean like starting a side business which will purposely lose money (on paper) and allow for depreciation or buying cash-flowing assets.

Excellent. Someone who needs the money more can provide whatever services he was previously providing.

Someone who needs the money more can provide whatever services he was previously providing ??

Yep…I guess you maybe right…So they can take all the risk and pay 50% + taxes IF they win…My buddy would say….Go-for-it….

The realization that we are sinking into a deflationary depression might have such a result.

The Fed is lending us our deficit, not printing it for us to spend like it was our own currency. Even so, Government borrowing is facing a headwind even though it is not compensating for the collapsing of credit elsewhere.

The realization that we are sinking into a deflationary depression might have such a result.

Call me when food, energy, healthcare and education prices drop significantly.

By that time in the cycle you will already have gotten the memo.

The Fed is lending us our deficit, not printing it for us to spend like it was our own currency.

Is that distinction actually significant, Blue? If so, how?

Call me when food, energy, healthcare and education prices drop significantly.

It is deflationary only in the things that you want, not in the things that you need…

“significant, Blue?…”

I am not sure. I think so. I’m still thinking about it. I do expect that the stuff on the surface, that everyone talks about, is rarely the important stuff.

It just seems a very odd arrangement. We bail them out and they lend us money they create at interest. I think Congress likes deficits because it sends streams of money to their sponsors at the bank. Nationalizing the Fed would be an interesting situation. But hey, I’m just an old river rat with some dollars stashed in the bilge, wondering where this thing will go.

I am not sure. I think so. I’m still thinking about it.

It certainly is an interesting detail.

But at a high level, it looks identical to me: they are printing up the money, and the government is spending it. There’s no real, fundamental difference when looked at from afar.

The big difference is really just one of accounting: the debt purchased from the government balloons the Fed’s balance sheet, and they end up receiving all of the resulting interest. But how significant is that interest to an entity that can print up money at will?

The balance sheet just looks like ink on paper to me, signifying nothing; they can paint it any way they want to.

It only takes one Lucky Ducky sperm to fertilize an egg.

Forgot to include the visual…

Unfortunately, the sperm count worldwide for men has been declining for decades. The last generation of real men was my generation.
Seriously, instead of science chasing non-existent AGW, we should be finding out what we are putting into the environment to cause this result. I do think this is man-made and it is scary that we are not actively looking for the cause.

All the hormones in meat and dairy?
BPA from plastic containers?

Note the USA’s “uniquely American” position regarding GMO foods as compared to those cheese-eating surrender monkey socialist Euro-weenies.

I do think this is man-made and it is scary that we are not actively looking for the cause.

Yeah, why isn’t the free market all over that?

we should be finding out what we are putting into the environment to cause this result

Come on! We all know that pollution is something that’s just part of life. Rules to keep the environment clean are “business unfriendly” and by extension are unAmerican!

And besides, our air is “unnaturally clean”, at least according to a Chinese colleague from Beijing.

Goon, I think the two items you identified are the most likely culprits. I have always leaned to the plastics on the sperm count but the genetically modified food scares me for other reasons. Look, I believe government is a necessary evil and enforcing reasonable environmental rules is a legitimate function of it.
What I object to is government looking to micro manage what the market can do such as setting the cost of money but then failing to do its job, securing borders etc. We lost much of the free market when the Fed reserve was created. If there was a job for the free market it is to set the price of money, i.e. determine the proper cost of money and thus the proper allocation. We suffered as a country because too much money was allocated to housing and China suffers too because their is over investment due to the government setting the cost of money.

Unfortunately, the sperm count worldwide for men has been declining for decades.

If that were the only side effect of petrochemicals and hormones in our water system then we would be lucky (#overpopulation), but unfortunately cancer and other diseases are also resulting.

All the hormones in meat and dairy? BPA from plastic containers?

Don’t forget one of my favorites: the teflon that _used_ to be on your old non-stick pans. Where do you think that it went?

I try to avoid the plastics and the non-stick stuff, though the hormones in the food are almost impossible to avoid… Do organic meats manage that?

teflon

Another possibility: have you looked at your shampoo/face-wash/body-wash/dish-soap/laundry-detergent/shampoo ingredients recently?

Many of the above contain Sodium Lauryl Sulphate, which has some question marks surrounding it—esp in the 1,4-dioxane that is known to be in some of it.

And many manufacturers of personal-care products won’t even tell you what the ingredients are.

“It’s about the voters and the issues they care about.”

It should be but it’s not.

Meanwhile, I’ll throw some more money at a monthly health insurance premium that covers nothing as my wallet gets hijacked whenever I walk into a medical facility.

The Country Club Crony Capitalist republicans don’t like him.
The Evangelists don’t trust him.
The neo-cons detest him. They would rather have Obama.

Any republican group likes Ron Paul? I doubt it.

‘Any republican group likes Ron Paul’

The ones that put him in congress all these years.

Or would he have lost just as many or more religious folks by not having Ryan?

You really think those religious-voters would have voted for the Muslim instead???

LOL…

One of the rare occasions when I agree with you.

‘I rarely see Hummers these days.’

TMI

p.s. Another point against hybrids: it’s cheap to buy a 12V battery-minder, but I have never seen a 201V or 273V model for sale.

Don’t be such a buzzkill. Everyone on the HBB is rich!

“Don’t be such a buzzkill. Everyone on the HBB is rich!”

Our blog spendthrifts and debt junkies only appear to be rich.

Well, I guess that is an excuse for the obama $1+ Trillion yearly deficits.

No, it’s not an excuse. But your role model is even worse. He inherited a balanced budget and wrecked it with two pointless wars and tax cuts for the rich.

Uh, that’s why we came up with the concept of retirement, sfh. You’re not supposed to work until you die.

The people I know who are having physical breakdowns due to labor, are either self-destructive (drugs, alcohol, obesity, sugar diets) or are in jobs that OSHA seems blind to. Neither welding, plumbing nor carpentry fall into the latter category.