December 7, 2012

Measuring The Wrong Things

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The housing market continues to cool off in the Lower Mainland, as the number of home sales dropped to 10-year lows in the Vancouver area and average sale prices dipped across the region. Those numbers represent a moderation of the formerly overheated housing market in Vancouver, but not a full-on correction to record-setting home prices in recent years, said Vancouver Real Estate Board president Eugen Klein. The days of $100,000 monthly price increases in Richmond or the west end or West Vancouver might be over, but ‘after all of that, where a $400,000 house became a $900,000 house, we’re seeing a price adjustment of just over six per cent. We’re not going back to the (original) level.’”

“Recently Deloitte, in its Australian Mortgage Report, tipped that investors, weary of poor equity returns, would start to return to the market next year. Eureka Financial Group managing director Greg Cook is cautious about rushing into the market. ‘If you talk to stockbrokers it’s always a good time to buy shares and if you talk to real estate agents it’s always a good time to buy property,’ Mr Cook said. ‘My observations are that there is a rosier outlook but I seem to meet some clients that think `the Gold Coast property market is 40 per cent off its peak, it’s got to be a good time to go in’. If a $1 million property has dropped to $600,000, my suspicion is that $600,000 is closer to the long-term value.’”

“An auctioneer was surprised recently to find that 35 Chinese people turned up to view a Dublin flat he was selling whereas only one Irish person was among the 40 viewers. Paul McGreal of Eddisons estate agents sold it at auction for €198,000 or €68,500 over its €129,500 guide price. Afterwards he said that the auction campaign helped to build up a considerable database of interested Chinese investors.”

“All in all 65pc of the 11 lots at the firm’s auction last month went to non-Irish purchasers, all of whom were buying with cash. ‘There was considerable interest from abroad with telephone bidders from China, Malaysia, London, Los Angeles, New York, Amsterdam, Leeds and Manchester on the day,’ he said.”

“According to the National Association of Realtors, non-American buyers accounted for $82 billion in home sales last year. More than $7 billion of that is by the Chinese, who are now the second largest foreign home purchasers after Canadians. ‘They’re probably the top 1 percent of the Mandarin speakers that are coming from China,’ said Brent Chang, a Coldwell Banker realtor in Southern California. ‘They’re really the people who have their own businesses or maybe were part of the government.’”

“The Chinese like the U.S. because their money goes further. In Shanghai, $2 million might only get you a two-bedroom condo. While some of the Chinese buyers live in the U.S. full or part-time, realtors estimate about 40 percent of the homes are for investments. Linda Chang, a realtor who works with her son, Brent, in the San Marino and Pasadena areas of California, says while many other real estate markets have suffered, her area has flourished thanks to Chinese and other foreign buyers. ‘It’s been fantastic for the U.S. housing market because we have not suffered as other communities have,’ said the elder Chang. ‘In fact, our property values have increased.’”

“With miles of freshly paved roads, little traffic and some seriously avant-garde architecture, the Chinese city of Ordos provides a driving environment most car enthusiasts can only dream of. Yet rich Chinese who have invested in the resource-rich city are now frantically rushing to sell off their new luxury toys. As the boom turns to bust, some luxury car owners are said to be asking for as little as 10 percent of the typical asking price.”

“Zhou Hai, the manager of an Ordos-based dealership called Haohai Used Car Company, told NBC News that while prices have plummeted, it is not to the extent that people had claimed. ‘The Internet is saying that my prices are 90 percent off, but in fact it’s only 50 percent,’ he said.”

“Ordos was supposed to be China’s Dubai, but the city built for 1 million people today has only 30,000 residents. Investors across China have snatched up real estate – often with no intention to move in or rent out – in remote places like Ordos as a safe place to keep and grow their money. Speaking to NBC News earlier this year, Gillem Tulloch, managing director of research firm Forensic Asia described the confluence of these economic events for ghost cities like Ordos as being: ‘Empty roads, empty buildings, empty neighborhoods, empty cities — all over China.’”

“Chris and Katy Gahlsdorf bought a house the year they got married. They thought, as young couples had for generations, that buying a home was the financially responsible thing to do and would provide security for their future. That was 2007. Within a year, home values in Oregon were in free-fall. It wasn’t long before the Gahlsdorfs were underwater on their mortgage. Today, they owe about $50,000 more than their house is worth. ‘We’ve delayed a lot of things. We’ve delayed having a family,’ Chris Gahlsdorf said. ‘We’re kind of in a holding pattern, just paying our bills and waiting.’”

“‘You did have this kind of asset, only now it’s a liability,’ said Chris Gahlsdorf. ‘There’s more equity in my paid-off car in the driveway.’”

“In the end, the most common road out of underwater territory will be to just wait. ‘It’s a ‘take a big breath’ issue,’ said Ethan Handelman, VP for policy and advocacy at the National Housing Conference. ‘The best thing you can do is keep paying your note and let the market catch up with you, because it will.’”

“Florida had nearly double the share of mortgaged homes in some stage of foreclosure in October as any other state. The mortgage struggles represent the lingering fallout from five years of historically high unemployment and inflated home values, which have left tens of thousands of boom-time borrowers in Southwest Florida underwater — trends that will likely feed new foreclosures into 2013, said Joseph Lehn, a Sarasota foreclosure attorney.”

“‘Florida is a low-income state, and with the predatory lending issues we had, every day it’s just getting worse,’ Lehn said. ‘People are broke. Retirees are going back to work. I have 75-year-olds with nowhere to go. They didn’t plan for this.’”

“First-home buyer demand has collapsed in major housing markets, with the nation in danger of changing to a generation of renters, according to Australia’s biggest mortgage broker. Last month, AFG arranged only 96 loans worth $31 million for first-home buyers in Queensland, compared with 265 mortgages worth $79m in October. This followed a similar trend in NSW, where it arranged less than half the 219 home loans worth $83m in September.”

“‘First-home buyers are the lifeblood of the property market - when activity stagnates at the entry level, it affects everyone up the property chain,’ AFG general manager of sales and operations Mark Hewitt told The Australian. ‘We could be seeing the transition to a generation of renters unless more is done to help people on to the property ladder.’”

“Leading realtors‘ body Confederation of Real Estate Developers’ Association of India (CREDAI) has asked its members to seriously consider selling off maximum inventories by reducing prices. ‘The developer community is willing to consider the suggestions made by the Finance Minister P Chidambaram to unlock the value of the unsold stock. We have asked our members across the country to seriously consider the proposal to sell (the unsold stock) in maximum numbers,’ Credai national president Lalit Kumar Jain said in a statement.”

“Earlier, the developers’ apex body had refused to offload the inventories at discounted rates saying that realtors would not be able to reduce the prices as they have invested heavily in the projects.”

“The economy is measured by people who measure things. They are not aware that real people exist and so they talk, instead, in terms of theory. It is not proper science because at the base of it all is human behaviour and these economists are not sociologists.”

“They are measuring the wrong things. If the people do not spend their money, and spend it often, that is measured as bad. If they do not spend their money because, afterall, a price has gone down, they are abnormal. If they do not stop buying when prices go up, they are abnormal.”

“If the country produces less of something per worker than another country, that is bad. If you can import something cheaper from abroad this is better. If you lose your job because of what was imported that is good. The more people you have, the richer you are and the more taxes you can collect to spend on making the country a ‘better’ place. This is why America and China are exactly what we would like to be, aren’t they? All this is called economics and has taken over common sense.”

“Who is losing the NZ plot? Who is in charge of this ‘economics’? Surely not our leaders who must love all NZ was, is and could be. Not leaders who could choose to do something unconventional to put it right. No, the only people who could allow this happen would have to be classic managers. Those people who ‘do the thing right’, according to the infallible economics book, listening to their branch heads rather than their own. Working on this year’s budget.”

“But then that means that the managers are running the leaders who are suppose to be ‘doing the right thing’ for the NZ future. Doesn’t it? Or are our leaders really only managers after all?”

“So here’s my two cents in fairly random ranting order. And please don’t give me the patronising ‘manager’s’ economic short-termist response: Stop selling housing, land and assets to non-New Zealand residents/companies. And retrieve what you can. Start appreciating our challenged youth. Ensure you have a manufacturing base that will provide them jobs. Think affordable housing. This is the human aspect missing from pure economics.”

“If kicking the can down the road and avoiding at all costs dealing with issues head on is an art form, then Prime Minister John Key is a master of the art. We have seen this on graphic display this past month or so over housing issues. Building affordable housing today is a very ho hum and formulaic business. There is nothing confusing about it – unless one is a politician or bureaucrat, it would appear.”

“The numbers speak for themselves. It is too dangerous to delay decisive action any longer – and indeed most unfortunate we didn’t start on this path following the 2008 election. It is important for the Government to send a clear message the ‘housing bubble days’ are over, that over a reasonable and realistic time frame, New Zealand housing returns to normal affordable levels. Indeed where they had been for previous generations of New Zealanders.”




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66 Comments »

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-12-07 07:09:08

“According to the National Association of Realtors, non-American buyers accounted for $82 billion in home sales last year.”

I hate to see figures like this one used out of context. Was that a fairly typical level of non-American home purchases?

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-12-07 07:15:25

“First-home buyer demand has collapsed in major housing markets, with the nation in danger of changing to a generation of renters, according to Australia’s biggest mortgage broker.”

Is it more likely Oz will now turn into a nation of renters, or that all adult children will just move into their mom’s basement, like in the U.S.?

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-12-07 07:31:59

THEY don’t have views or even running water but storage cages and parking spots are the latest hot property in Sydney.
More than 20 storage-style properties traded hands over the past year in the city’s inner west as buyers look to purchase a few square feet of space to call their own - for less than the price of a traditional home.Colliers International associate director Edward Princi agreed parking and storage could be a great investment, with rental yields about 7 per cent - higher than many residential properties.

“We’ve sold quite a few to mum and dad investors who want to enter the property market - there’s not much you can usually buy for under $300,000, whereas an industrial unit you can get for $91,000 which provides a good return,” he said.http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/realestate/investing/parking-storage-boom/story-fndbnn4m-1226524618541

Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 09:05:04

Interesting Ben….Although after reading the article I can understand the motivation I just can’t see that it would happen in any significant way…Who would finance any of these purchases…Answer is nobody other than the seller himself…Without financing, I don’t see how it can happen on any broad scale…I also would be thinking twice about buying one knowing that I need to pay cash for it and if I want out I will need to look for someone with cash to take me out…

 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-12-07 09:37:16

The banksters appear to have put the space squeeze on the Lilliputians…

 
Comment by Jojo
2012-12-08 06:01:49

And in Hong Kong. The HK government recently increased property sales tax and especially tax on flipping property - the highest rate is if you sell within 1 year of purchase. So now property speculators have switched to buying car parking spaces. Recently parking spaces have been selling for up to HK$ 2 million - that’s US$250,000.

Property developers have begun selling them in large numbers, and banks are providing mortgages.

“The proportion of parking space mortgages to all new mortgages has risen to 24 percent from a few percent previously,” mReferral’s Lau said. She expects the proportion to increase further, as home transactions have dropped, and year end is near.

“Although there are more buyers for parking spaces, the price tag is small. They may not need mortgage loans, or they may refinance their flats to buy the parking space,” Tsin said.

Since the end of October, developers have sold as many as 4,400 parking slots - some at record prices.

At One WanChai by Chinese Estates Holdings (0127), a car berth fetched a staggering HK$2.25 million.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=16&art_id=128985&sid=38405281&con_type=3&d_str=&fc=7

 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2012-12-07 07:41:42

“Yet rich Chinese who have invested in the resource-rich city are now frantically rushing to sell off their new luxury toys. As the boom turns to bust, some luxury car owners are said to be asking for as little as 10 percent of the typical asking price.”
____________________________/

Wonderful. Is there any way we can buy those cars?

Ben, I don’t know what your personal resources are like, but if you happen to come into some wealth, I suggest that your next HBB road trip be international. One itinerary could be Vancouver, the Australian Gold Coast, Shanghai, Ordos, and Dubai.

My opinion is that the era of foreign property ownership is going to come to an abrupt and possibly violent end, and soon. There is only a small class of people who benefit when non-resident foreign buyers drive up residential real estate prices. And again I must focus on the possibility that all-cash buyers, whatever their nationality, are seeking to launder funds whose origin is criminal activity. Does anyone care?

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-12-07 07:52:18

There’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t add up. How can this be:

‘In Shanghai, $2 million might only get you a two-bedroom condo.’

Then we read of a roomful of Chinese bidding on Irish flats, and paying way over asking price. Why aren’t they buying all these empty houses in China?

‘They’re really the people who have their own businesses or maybe were part of the government’

Comment by Young Deezy
2012-12-07 09:17:42

A lot of commenters on the internet have hypothesized that a lot of Chinese purchases of real estate abroad are an attempt to get wealth out of china and/or have an escape destination available when the balloon finally goes up in the Middle Kingdom.

if I had to guess that’s exactly what’s going on here.

Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-12-07 09:59:56

Yep. That’s my interpretation too.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-12-07 08:21:42

And again I must focus on the possibility that all-cash buyers, whatever their nationality, are seeking to launder funds whose origin is criminal activity.

@snake charmer: You’ve described my former neighbors to a tee. They came here from Vietnam, and what a bunch of sleazeballs.

Friends of mine, who live next door, saw them in their back yard with some pretty nasty looking armaments. He suspected that they were gun runners, and he tried to report them. But the authorities did nothing.

Comment by snake charmer
2012-12-07 09:02:08

It is not uncommon; below are a couple of examples from my state. But our ideology dictates that as long as prices go up, or are propped up, it’s all good. And as long as we have that ideology, this is going to happen.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/5-Busted-in–125576373.html

http://www.fbi.gov/miami/press-releases/2010/mm033110-1.htm

 
Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 09:17:02

I think laundering of money with cash deals in real estate happens a lot more than we all realize and not just residential but commercial/industrial & bare land…On the commercial & land side it throws up less red flags with the authorities because it is not uncommon to see cash deals….Also, with the big boys, they are two peas-in-a-pod…Got one criminal buying from another criminal…More likely to accommodate each-other in the deal…

Comment by polly
2012-12-07 10:39:33

Unless you literally mean a suitcase full of currency, then buying real estate is not a money laundering activity. The act of money laundering is the act of getting the money from illegal activities into a bank account (so it can be used to do stuff like buy real estate) under the cover of a legitimate activity. Traditionally these were businesses where cash transactions were common (like dry cleaner) and inventory (easily traced) was small. The business would book all sort of legit transactions that never took place and deposit money from an illegal activity like drug sales instead.

So, if you are talking about buying real estate with money that is in a bank or brokerage account, that isn’t money laundering. The money laundering has already happened.

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Comment by ahansen
2012-12-07 11:04:46

The game goes:

Your honored son marries an educated American girl. You give them a house in an American port city as a wedding present. Son goes through the onerous process of becoming US citizen ($30K+ in “fees”, MBA, said house, blood.) Each year you give them an anniversary gift of another property until they can afford to start buying their own, then have them apply to bring you to America as family members. (Being educated property-owners with job-creating capacity makes it a lot more likely.)

Your money is sheltered out of reach of PRC party officials, you work as “bookkeepers” for your son’s properties, retire near his family at the beach, and enjoy your honored grandbabies with Medicare for your dotage. The American Dream.

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:41:56

Your money is sheltered out of reach of PRC party officials, you work as “bookkeepers” for your son’s properties, retire near his family at the beach, and enjoy your honored grandbabies with Medicare for your dotage. The American Dream.
This appears to be the Oil City scenario for a mainland Chinese. It needs a catchy name, though.

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:43:10

Call it the 金山 scenario.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 11:41:56

So, if you are talking about buying real estate with money that is in a bank or brokerage account, that isn’t money laundering ??

Well Duh…..Wasn’t the conversation and my response regarding foreign buyers…

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Comment by polly
2012-12-07 13:53:35

No. Getting the money into the bank account requires laundering. Once it is in the bank account under the cover of a legitimate business or allowable transaction, it doesn’t need to be laundered. You can do whatever you like with it. That doesn’t mean you can’t buy real estate with it. Of course you can. But buying real estate isn’t how the money is legitimized.

 
Comment by Martin
2012-12-07 14:01:01

Polly,
There are people in foreign countries who have illegal money and the best place to park is RE. India for example. All properties sold there have 70% cash component and is black money. The real value registered is only 30% of the selling price. A big loss to Govt. for taxes bu tit helps all the corrupt leaders to park their stolen money in RE.

Now, this RE can be bought by someone in USA for the full amount and the money is laundered.

 
Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 14:26:32

Polly…What part of “Foreign Buyer” didn’t you get ?? The thread was about foreign buyers…They don’t need to park their money in our banks…Gee’s…

 
Comment by polly
2012-12-07 22:07:13

They do if they want to close a large real estate transaction without attracting a lot of attention. International transfers of millions of dollars don’t happen quickly or easily. You have to prove you have the money in a US dollar denominated account. Any transfer from outside the US to inside the US for more than $10K is a reportable event. Could you get away with it? Sure. Sometimes. Maybe even a lot of the time. Guaranteed? No way. How much risk you willing to take?

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2012-12-07 22:34:11

‘You have to prove you have the money in a US dollar denominated account. Any transfer from outside the US to inside the US for more than $10K is a reportable event. Could you get away with it?’

Get away with what? It isn’t a crime for elite people to take their cash out of China. The question is, why is it so easy to spend it here (and Ireland, NZ, Canada and Australia) without drawing any attention from law enforcement? And if it’s a ‘reportable event’, what the heck is the follow up?

‘How much risk you willing to take’

What’s the risk? Have you heard of any Asian money launderers being prosecuted in real estate purchases?

To me we are seeing a looting of a country and the wealth being secreted away overseas. Maybe you have read a few of my posts about hundreds of thousands of mass protests every year in China, most dealing with illegal land theft by the state representatives, who then personally profited. Isn’t that some sort of a crime, if the citizens live under a totalitarian system and can’t do anything about it?

If this money were coming out of Columbia, do you suppose it would be treated the same? We’re talking about hundreds of billions of dollars. Maybe trillions. Where the hell are the regulators?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-12-07 09:39:40

“There is only a small class of people who benefit when non-resident foreign buyers drive up residential real estate prices. And again I must focus on the possibility that all-cash buyers, whatever their nationality, are seeking to launder funds whose origin is criminal activity. Does anyone care?”

Why can’t Uncle Sam just shut the door on the influx of foreign equity locusts, before they turn more of America into slum lord fiefdoms?

Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 09:46:15

Why can’t Uncle Sam just shut the door on the influx of foreign equity locusts ??

The answer is they “can” but they “don’t”…

Comment by Ben Jones
2012-12-07 09:51:45

Yeah, it often says all cash purchases. Have you tried to buy a car with cash lately? You’ll get a ’suspicious activity report’ filed on you right away.

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Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-12-07 10:02:53

Really? Wow. It will be at least 4 years (I hope) before I want a new car but was planning to pay cash. IIRC from 8 years ago, the last car purchase required me to take out an auto loan which I paid off in one month. :roll:

 
Comment by ahansen
2012-12-07 11:16:05

Try buying an airline ticket with cash and see if you make the flight….

Brokerage houses won’t take cash. Many gun stores won’t take cash. Upscale jewelry houses won’t take cash. And of course, online sellers won’t take cash. It’s almost as though if you don’t run it through “their” bank it doesn’t count.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2012-12-07 11:19:17

I think that “cash” literally means cash, not a check.

 
Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-12-07 11:36:30

D’oh, of course.

 
Comment by polly
2012-12-07 13:57:14

Easier to say “currency” not cash. The term cash, meaning cash or cash equivalents (like a certified check) is too common. It gets confusing.

Trying to buy a car with $20,000 in currency would be one hot mess. The assumption is always going to be that it is counterfeit. The dealership doesn’t have the expertise to determine that, so they won’t take it.

 
Comment by Martin
2012-12-07 14:03:32

Paying $20k by check or cashiers check is okay. Paying it by hard currency in a suitcase is a big problem.

 
Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 15:04:51

Trying to buy a car with $20,000 in currency would be one hot mess ??

Probably not in Las Vegas or Macao…

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:32:11

I once bought a car with cash. My first one, for $150. From my brother.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-12-08 09:06:23

We once had a person ask if they could invest with us–hundreds of thousands of dollars…using cash ($20’s, $50’s, $100’s). The guy seemed to be in a legitimate business, but clearly he took payment from a lot of customers in cash (and likely didn’t declare any of it).

Needless to say, life is too short to get involved with something like that…we declined.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 10:43:22

Wire transfers Ben…Thats how I have suspected that its done…But thats trackable also…So if the transfer is coming from some foreign country who the heck knows how they got it…And it does not go through a clearing house like a bank…It goes directly to the title company although it does move through one of I think three federal clearing house…At least thats what I have been told in the past…Wire goes from bank, to some federal agency and then to the recipient…I think ours around here is in San Francisco…

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Comment by scdave
2012-12-07 10:48:24

Another way I have suspected that they launder the money is by having the seller carry the first note….Then in smaller pieces they pay down the loan over a short period of time…I suppose because the smaller payments are easier to hide…

 
Comment by polly
2012-12-07 14:00:05

You still have to get the money into a bank. And it is trivially easy to track all transactions no matter how small. But banks are required to report certain ones, including, anything involving $10K of cash.

I’ve posted it a few times, but you people should really google “FinCEN.”

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:33:15

But banks are required to report certain ones, including, anything involving $10K of cash.
Some of the really cautious banks will report transactions starting at $5,000. Happened to me a few years back.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2012-12-07 13:30:58

Why can’t Uncle Sam just shut the door on the influx of foreign equity locusts ??

The answer is they “can” but they “don’t”…

they encourage it the government needs the money

This trend will only get worse in the years ahead

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Comment by The Dust Grinder
2012-12-07 08:19:48

Today, they owe about $50,000 more than their house is worth. ‘We’ve delayed a lot of things. We’ve delayed having a family,’ Chris Gahlsdorf said. ‘We’re kind of in a holding pattern, just paying our bills and waiting.’”

“‘You did have this kind of asset, only now it’s a liability,’ said Chris Gahlsdorf. ‘There’s more equity in my paid-off car in the driveway.’”

And here(in bold) we have truth crushing the long held realtor gang falsehood that a house is somehow a sacred, money generating machine. This quote gives insight to the bagholders motive. To them, it was “an investment”, even though we know that a house is always a massive expense, even if you bought it before 1998. And if you bought post 1998, you’re really screwed.

Where did they get the the idea that housing is anything but a liability? Any ideas? Anyone?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-12-07 08:38:27

Where did they get the the idea that housing is anything but a liability? Any ideas? Anyone?

In my little ole accounting system, my mortgage payments are recorded under Liabilities. Matter of fact, I just did that fun little exercise this week.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-12-07 10:05:14

“Where did they get the the idea….”

Most people alive have seen nothing but credit expansion (with short setbacks) their whole lives. Any other reality is not possible to them. In credit expansion it is profitable to leverage. Debt makes you rich. Is the greatest credit expansion in history over yet? Unpossible.

 
Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-12-07 10:06:34

Oh, how about the mass media and the NAR?

Apart from that, putting your life on hold over a $50k “investment” loss doesn’t strike me as too bright either. Why can’t the young couple admit they were duped, keep calm and carry on as if nothing bad has happened? And decide to stay in their underwater house.

Comment by joesmith
2012-12-07 11:13:08

I know I’ll take flack for this, but a normal young or young-ish person should not care that much about being underwater by 50k. If you’re 30 today, you most likely have 35-40 yrs to work and 50 yrs to live. Crying over 50k is baby-ish and clearly a result of the peculiar psychology of home-buying in the U.S.

The boomers and Gen X didn’t view their (purchased) houses as homes for a lifetime. Moving 3 or 4 times in an adult lifetime was considered normal and expected. But stop and think of all the inefficiency involved with selling/buying/financing that many times. To say nothing of moving, renovating, and maintaining a new house each decade. I am a bit of an extremist, but I purposely bought a house that had been owned by the same people for 50 yrs and was well maintained. And even then, we still went to town replacing and upgrading things because we fully plan to get our 50 yrs out of the house so it was worth going in and doing things to a high standard the first time.

By contrast, when we were looking at houses (60-70 houses over the better part of a yr) so many of the sellers had given nary a thought to maintaining or modernizing the house and virtually all were “move up” buyers. No doubt their next house will be as beat up and substandard as their current houses. FWIW, most of the houses we looked at went on and then off the market several times over the past few yrs and many still have not sold.

Comment by Carl Morris
2012-12-07 11:34:50

But stop and think of all the inefficiency involved with selling/buying/financing that many times.

One man’s inefficiency is another man’s living.

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Comment by joesmith
2012-12-07 14:34:59

If people really find it fun to pay all those fees and spend all the money tearing apart each house, that’s sad. Why not rent if you plan to “trade up” every few years? A lot less convenient than not having a kitchen or bathroom for weeks at a time while they’re redone. Packing/unpacking, even if you have movers doing it, also has to be one of the biggest PITAs known to man.

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:35:08

Packing/unpacking, even if you have movers doing it, also has to be one of the biggest PITAs known to man.
Hear, hear!

 
 
 
 
Comment by goon squad
2012-12-07 10:45:11

LOOSERS!

 
Comment by ahansen
2012-12-07 11:34:20

Grinder,

The house isn’t the liability, the mortgage is.

Inheriting a well-built house is probably pretty cool. Building a house to your specifications for cash you don’t need is definitely very cool. Living in a house you love without having to worry about coming up with the money for a monthly payment is amazingly cool. (Especially as one’s job prospects get unlikelier.)

Sure, there will always be maintenance and taxes, (and maybe insurance if you’re the paranoid sort), but those can be minimized, and would still be a consideration if renting. For some of us, the stability and peace of mind provided by a paid-off place to live are priceless.

(Now, I’ll admit that come April thaws and November winds, the dust can get annoying, but I’m in the process of deteriorating too, and in another thirty years I won’t give a poo anyway.) :-)

Comment by Al
2012-12-07 13:37:11

“The house isn’t the liability, the mortgage is.”

From an accounting perspective, houses are assets. They can be sold (not necessarily for more than the mortgage) and they are uselful (shelter).

From an investment perspective, the NPV of a house could be less than 0, however.

 
Comment by tresho
2012-12-07 16:36:57

Living in a house you can put up with without having to worry about coming up with the money for a monthly payment is amazingly cool.

 
Comment by The Dust Grinder
2012-12-07 17:30:06

The house isn’t the liability, the mortgage is.
Not really.

The liability lies in the massive financing costs and never ending taxes, insurance and maintenance.

Inheriting a well-built house is probably pretty cool. Building a house to your specifications for cash you don’t need is definitely very cool.

Absolutely. Realistic? Not at all.

Living in a house you love without having to worry about coming up with the money for a monthly payment is amazingly cool.

You’re leaving out the fact that prices are massively inflated and falling(just consider the losses there). Not to mention… again….. taxes, insurance and maintenance.

Sure, there will always be maintenance and taxes, (and maybe insurance if you’re the paranoid sort), but those can be minimized

By all means, explain this one.

For some of us, the stability and peace of mind provided by a paid-off place to live are priceless.

“Priceless”. Meaning a lifetime of inflated payments on a depreciating asset?

Comment by ahansen
2012-12-07 21:46:23

One can design and build a house for cash (as in actual currency on the barrel-head every Friday afternoon) as general contractor and bypass the markups. Use retired master labor (with a lifetime’s collection of tools and equipment) for all but the rough framing and plumbing/electrical, and do the layout, set-up, procurement and delivery yourself. Figure your materials obsessively. Do your own clean up. Buy cheap land where the Infrastructure is already in. Don’t take out a mortgage, amass no credit debt, and build as you go along only as money is available. Wherever possible buy odd lots or close outs at hugely reduced prices and incorporate into your design. Don’t rush the project.

Taxes can be minimized by building small and smart (in an unincorporated area) where assessed value is based on sq footage rather than caliber of construction. Thoughtful planning, quality building and industrial materials can minimize maintenance. Intelligent site planning and utilization (and green construction) will minimize energy usage.

Don’t cut any corners, make friends with the building inspector and take his good advice; your final assessment will thank you. Taxes can be deferred against eventual sale or probate in some places. No insurance is required if there is no mortgage. Plant an orchard, grow specialty crops, graze stock, take in boarders, etc.

No payments, minimal maintenance, appreciation as property is developed and land utilized.

It can (and has been) done. Just not by everyone. ;-)

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Comment by The Dust Grinder
2012-12-07 22:38:07

Thanks for the tips Alena. lol.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Erik
2012-12-07 08:46:38

All those foreign buyers are going to learn the hard lesson that all those Japanese “Investors” learned when they bought up all kinds of American commercial properties back in the eighties…

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-12-07 09:41:07

I can’t wait…

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2012-12-07 09:49:36

Couldn’t happen to a nicer buncha people.

Comment by MiddleCoaster
2012-12-07 10:08:00

Hey Slim! Who would ever have suspected that we feel the same way?

 
 
Comment by AmazingRuss
2012-12-07 10:50:58

A worthy exchange for all the plastic crap the sold us to get that money.

 
 
Comment by Neuromance
2012-12-07 10:27:08

“The economy is measured by people who measure things. They are not aware that real people exist and so they talk, instead, in terms of theory. It is not proper science because at the base of it all is human behaviour and these economists are not sociologists.”

“They are measuring the wrong things. If the people do not spend their money, and spend it often, that is measured as bad. If they do not spend their money because, after all, a price has gone down, they are abnormal. If they do not stop buying when prices go up, they are abnormal.”

I recently saw a quote which underscored this:

“Economics is about maximizing welfare, not GDP.”

This is why I’m always astounded that increased debt is considered a good thing. While it may, through some twisted measure, increase GDP, it absolutely lowers welfare.

What is that Dickens quote, “Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.”

Comment by joesmith
2012-12-07 11:16:17

There’s a lot more truth in some good fictional works than in most college/grad level econ textbooks. I remember thinking, even in college, that a lot of what we learned as GAAP rules or in Corporate Finance just did not sound that robust (to borrow a word from Taleb).

On a similar note, I like Russ Roberts’ podcast because he focuses on using Economics as a way to test ideas out and account for observations in the real world, rather than to make predictions about the future or “measure” things. Often when concepts like inflation are discussed, he takes the time to dissect how those numbers are computed and why there might be biases and sampling errors, etc.

 
Comment by Al
2012-12-07 13:42:33

“If the people do not spend their money, and spend it often, that is measured as bad.”

I’ve studied economics a fair amount, and this is not part of it. Savings are studied for the potential effects, which are not good or bad. This type of definition is what greedy manipulators twist economics into for their own personal gain. About 90% of the time I see something credited to keynes’, it’s a severe bastardization of his theory.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2012-12-07 13:27:14

“The Chinese like the U.S. because their money goes further. In Shanghai, $2 million might only get you a two-bedroom condo. While some of the Chinese buyers live in the U.S. full or part-time, realtors estimate about 40 percent of the homes are for investments. Linda Chang, a realtor who works with her son, Brent, in the San Marino and Pasadena areas of California, says while many other real estate markets have suffered, her area has flourished thanks to Chinese and other foreign buyers. ‘It’s been fantastic for the U.S. housing market because we have not suffered as other communities have,’ said the elder Chang. ‘In fact, our property values have increased.’”

But Ben Bernake said a weak dollar won’t affect US inflation

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2012-12-07 16:58:09

Bernanke should be mocked and ridiculed for what he has said and done. Same goes for Greenspan. History will not treat them so kind- unless of course their sycophants are penning the pages.

 
 
Comment by Jojo
2012-12-07 20:22:09

Ben, i’d just like to say that it’s good to see the Friday desk clearing blog back. This is my favorite part of HBB, thanks for doing it.

 
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