Bits Bucket for December 10, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
Attempts at downsizing for retirement may backfire
The McMansion generation is in downsizing mode. It isn’t always simple, painless—or even all that beneficial financially. With the real-estate market still fragile, many baby boomers are getting a lot less than they expected for the old homestead. All too often, they have little cash left over after buying a new place, and their monthly expenses don’t fall as much as they thought—or may even rise instead.
— Marian Crapanzano and her husband, John, both 67, recently forfeited a deposit on a condominium in Rockland County, N.Y., because they couldn’t sell their three-bedroom home in nearby Stony Point. “We had our house on the market for eight or nine months, and we didn’t have any offers,” says Ms. Crapanzano, a paralegal. “People weren’t even coming to look at it.”
— Joanne Abrahamian, 60, downsized to a three-bedroom home on a golf course in Kanab, Utah, in 2008. A retired executive assistant for Verizon Communications Inc. from New Jersey, she had vacationed in Kanab and liked the area’s lower cost of living, but she didn’t appreciate just how remote the town of 4,000 is. “I have to drive an hour and a half to do my major shopping,” says Ms. Abrahamian, who says she also misses the “seasons and the ocean.”
Because of Kanab’s depressed real-estate market, however, she is stuck. Since 2008, the value of her new home has plunged to $195,000 from $295,000. As a result, Ms. Abrahamian’s mortgage now exceeds her home’s value by $34,000.
I visited Kanab in 2009. No home there is worth even $195,000. IMHO
Title should say:
Stupid attempts at downsizing for retirement may backfire
What is stupid isn’t the downsizing, but buying the McMansion in the first place. Only a portion of that building was housing. The rest was keeping up the the Jones. The buyers — younger generations — are under no illusion that they can keep up with the Joneses.
Meanwhile, here in NYC public policy makes downsizing a bad deal. The property tax system discriminates in favor of one to four family homeowners, and against people who live in apartments, whether buyers or renters.
This deal would probably inflate the price I would get for my house. As would the fact that only 1/3 of NYC housing units have 3 bedrooms or more. But if I were to move to a one- or two-bedroom condo with one-third the space of that house, right in or near my current neighborhood, my monthly housing cost would almost certainly rise substantially as a result of the higher taxes and maintenance fees.
Well, at least it isn’t the public union’s fault.
Bought a supersized McMansion in 1998, sold early in the bubble (knew we needed a one-story eventually for senior years. our timimg sucked), lived as renters for a long time, and finally found this wonderful home. No mortgage, no debt, happy as can be. 78M Baby Boomers, some are so hung up on sq ft and image. We cut our sq ft in half.
A lot of our friends would not be caught living in our simple little non-showy oasis. They are swimming in ego and stupidity.
“We cut our sq ft in half.”
Very wise! Too bad my in laws went the other direction (bought a supersized prestige home on the hill once they finally had all the kids out of their hair).
Now that they are getting closer to the point of slowing down, the decision looks increasingly questionable.
“A retired executive assistant ”
In other words; an unemployed old go-fer.
The number of employed Americans is at the same level as 2005, even though the working age population has grown by 18 million.
the same level as 2005
Cueing NAR-scum to pimp about “pent-up demand” for household formation.
Perhaps an Amy Hoak piece from MarketWatch…
Here ya go, from no less than Gollum Sux.
Never mind that they forgot to account for the 25 million homes in shadow inventory.
Agustino Fontevecchia, Forbes Staff
Bringing You The Bull And Bear Case From The Markets Desk
11/19/2012 @ 2:31PM
Housing No Longer A Drag On GDP As Recovery Solidifies, Goldman Says
Housing has turned the corner, according to Goldman Sachs’ economic research team, and has gone from being a drag on GDP to a tailwind. Rising prices, rebounding household formation, and the normalization of housing starts over the next four years should keep upward pressure on the housing market.
It’s difficult to deny that the U.S. economy is barely moving. Economic growth has been subpar and companies, fearing uncertainty and the fiscal cliff, have sat on their massive cash piles, refusing to hire or expand. One sector, though, has been on fire: homebuilding. The XHB homebuilders ETF, for example, is up nearly 50% year to date.
According to Goldman Sachs, average household formation during the 1990s and early 2000s averaged about 1.1 million units a year. As the housing bubble came to fruition, formation accelerated to 1.5 million between 2004 and 2006 annually; it then collapsed to about 600,000 a year between 2007 and 2011.
Why did household formation collapse? Goldman’s research team suggests the headship rate, or the percentage of people that are heads of a household, broke down as immigration flows to the U.S. slowed and young people either stayed with their parents for longer or “doubled up” with relatives and roommates.
As demand evaporated, excess housing supply piled up. The latest housing data from the National Association of Realtors, released Monday, indicated the current housing inventory stands at 2.14 million units, or a 5.4-month supply. While this is down dramatically from a year ago, according to Goldman’s estimates as much as 1.5 million of those are in excess of market needs.
Household formation is coming back, though. The headship rate, which is tied to labor market performance, is expected to recover, taking the current 1 million-rate of house formation up to 1.2 million in 2013, and then up to 1.3 million a year between 2014 and 2016. The current 1.5 million excess supply should be cleared out by the end of 2016, they estimate.
…
Goldman Sux….. yeah… Their street cred is that of NARscum.
This could slow down housing higher taxes
“Now our elected officials are going to tell us in the name of tax simplification they’re going to further reduce the value of our housing by 10% to 15% right as we’re about to retire?” Howard said. “When you make that kind of case to lawmakers, you should see their eyes widen.”
But a lot of that concern is based on the misconception that the deduction is a boon for average Americans, critics said.
“This is a sacred cow to the real estate industry, and it’s almost an entitlement to homeowners,” said Anthony Sanders, a real estate finance professor at George Mason University. “They could cut it in half and it would not harm a lot of middle-income households.”
An analysis by Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation found that 78% of the $83 billion in mortgage interest deductions in 2010 went to households with income of more than $100,000. Households with incomes of more than $200,000 got 35% of the benefit.
Wealthier people own more expensive houses and have more interest to deduct. And because their income is taxed at a higher rate, the benefit of the deduction is greater.
The average savings from the mortgage interest deduction was $2,454 in 2010. But for households making more than $200,000, it was $6,370.
In addition, people in high-cost areas benefit the most from the deduction. A 2001 study found that three metropolitan areas — Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York — combined to receive more than 75% of the deduction’s benefit.
“When you turn the light on and see what’s really under the bed, I don’t think there’s really much there,” said Glenn Kelman, chief executive of online real estate company Redfin, which is based in Seattle.
“When you turn the light on and see what’s really under the bed, I don’t think there’s really much there,” said Glenn Kelman, chief executive of online real estate company Redfin, which is based in Seattle.
Good thing I just cleaned the house on Thanksgiving. I’d hate to see what’s under the bed if I hadn’t.
She was only 60? I agree, that says “You old coot, you’re skewing our medical risk pool, you’re laid off.”
But seriously, how could she have “vacationed” in Utah, but didn’t know about the distance to shopping, to hospitals, and be so ignorant about the climate?
You’d be surprised at how many people now little about the very geography they live in.
She was a retired executive assistant for Verizon so what should one expect?
I’ve been to Kanab. Lovely high desert area, charming little town, and I knew immediately there was no way I could live there.
Lovely high desert area, charming little town, and I knew immediately there was no way I could live there.
YUP! My thoughts exactly.
“All too often, they have little cash left over after buying a new place, and their monthly expenses don’t fall as much as they thought—or may even rise instead.”
And thanks to the Fed’s ongoing efforts to keep interest rates pinned to the floor, that little bit of cash left over will generate very little by way of interest earnings if invested in low-risk interest-bearing investments, like CDs or money market funds.
No home there is worth even $195,000. IMHO
You can build alot of house for that kind of $$$.
So do you really believe your 50 year old shack is worth more?
People are calling bottom in all the desert states, assuming 100k for 5 acres of scrub is cheap. The land should be about 1k per acre.
“The land should be about 1k per acre.”
That’s a stretch considering 95% of the entire landmass goes undeveloped.
To me 1k/acre is too expensive for desert, unless it’s an easy drive to a good job.
So do you really believe your 50 year old shack is worth more?
My county seems to think my 50 year old shack is worth $105,000. To me that’s a gross exaggeration.
Marian Crapanzano and her husband, John, both 67, recently forfeited a deposit on a condominium in Rockland County, N.Y., because they couldn’t sell their three-bedroom home in nearby Stony Point. “We had our house on the market for eight or nine months, and we didn’t have any offers,” says Ms. Crapanzano, a paralegal. “People weren’t even coming to look at it.”
With a name like Marian Crapanzano, one has to laugh. Get a grip Mrs. Crap….. the northeast/mid atlantic is just entering the price decline phase.
“…Crapanzano, one has to laugh…”
Racist!
What a bunch of crap. Would you want the crappy life of a mortgage-debtor?
What a bunch of crapanzano!
I have to bookmark that one in my memory…
When the krill housing markets are killed, eventually the whale housing markets die too.
Moving from NJ to small town UT in old age — this is a major life change, it is ridiculous she didn’t think about what this would mean for mobility, accessibility, medical care, shopping, etc.
It seems like a much better life plan to arrange things so that you won’t have to greatly downsize… and that you definitely won’t have to move far across the country to chace some ridiculous and vaguely-envisioned “dream retirement”.
She definitely should have rented for a year. Everyone should, when moving to a new area that they don’t know well.
I still say if you need to make a drastic downsizing absent some serious medical issue, it means you drank the Realtor (TM) “housing is an investment” koolaid.
The other thing is that in many (most?) high tax states, there are big tax advantages to having lived in a house for many yrs. Homestead tax incentives, etc. I’m not saying these should exist, but they do. Oftentimes people living in a house for 20-30 yrs are paying a fraction of what they’d pay if the bought a new house.
Ain’t that the truth. As outrageous as I think my property taxes are on the little ranch house we have lived in for 23 years, the taxes on smaller and/or cheaper homes for sale in the area are invariably higher.
One of the things that may have motivated her is the dream that the area is going to boom due to water being piped from Lake Powell to that area and Saint George. The costs of that pipeline have been soaring it is quite doubtful it will ever be built. BTW, I have not stopped there in years but if you do I suggest the Rocking V to eat. I hope it is still open. Had a great buffalo (bison) steak and it has a decent wine list in a town where getting a drink can be a challenge.
BTW, if I was going to move to a small isolated town, it would be Ouray, Colorado. I think it is cool sharing the town with the bears, bighorn sheep and deer. One downside you have to keep your dogs on a leash in the town since even during the day,deer are everywhere and sheep can be seen occasionally on the road.
Silverton can be even more isolated. Some years ago we drove the Million Dollar Highway from Durango, through Silverton/ all the way to Ouray (and beyond). From what I read Silverton is one lonely place in the winter.
http://ourayicepark.com/ice-festival/
a-dan, she was too stupid to look up the nearest ocean, how would she anticipate future water rights. There has to be something we don’t know…. maybe some re-al-tor whispered in her ear?
That is a great road, but yes Silverton might be considered even more isolated despite the “train” service part of the year. The narrow gauge train is a great sight. Have you ever hiked over the mountains between Ouray and Telluride? I want to do that some day.
Have you ever hiked over the mountains between Ouray and Telluride? I want to do that some day.
Afraid not. I imagine it’s a great hike. Just the drive along the road was gorgeous, though we needed a brake job when we got home.
between Ouray and Telluride
We summited 14er Mt Sneffels in June:
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-sneffels/150272
And 13er Vermilion Peak this October:
http://www.summitpost.org/vermilion-peak/152743
The hike up to Ice Lakes basin near Silverton is highly recommended.
Heh, small world, we’re actually renting a house in Kanab for spring break next year. Lovely part of the country but even me (outdoorsy guy-stuck in Chicago) would last about 2 weeks living there. Of note, much cheaper to rent there than last year when we went to Moab (literally 1/2 price for same type house).
Goon, those peaks are gorgeous. I’ve done all my Colorado hiking in the Rocky Mountain Park area but it seems I have a lot more places to see and hike in this lifetime.
Riverside slide…ouray county….great song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW1CKRnsUF8
I drove the Ophir Pass road this past summer. Once I started I could not back out; scared the bejesus out of me! This area of Colorado is awesome.
Oxy - boyoboy. When you are on your game, you are REALLY on. That was sidesplitting-funny, thanks for the laugh.
I envision a new yorky type with a Joisey accent, demanding her rights and complaining loudly about home delivery soivice. In Kanab. Amongst the Mormons.
It must have been true love.
Rent? She could have spent 6 minutes on google satellite maps and wikipedia:
“I miss the ocean.” Nearest ocean is 800 miles west at LA.
“Didn’t anticipate how remote.” Smack among Bryce, Zion, and Grand Canyon. Not exactly famous for population density.
“I miss the seasons.” Awfully darn brown. Brown is not exactly famous for seasons.
“I have to drive 90 minutes to shop.” No immediate indiciations of any large structure such as a mall, Wal-Mart, or even a grocery store, or parking lot for same.
“$295K house.” Median income: $35K
“60″ (and probably single). Town has 2006 statement advocating Full Quiver, Natural Family Women as homemakers, etc.
She couldn’t have chosen a WORSE place to live.
She couldn’t have chosen a WORSE place to live.
Might make a good sit-com, though.
Median income: $35K
Town has 2006 statement advocating Full Quiver
I’m guessing that you see a LOT of SNAP cards at the local grocery stores.
a LOT of SNAP cards
Not true. Only black and brown people (who voted for Obama) get SNAP cards. We read that in a story linked from the Drudge Report
House prices detached from median incomes some time ago. Even in the hardest hit areas, prices are still out of line with what people can afford. Families bringing home $40k per year are expected to afford $150k houses. Speculators from afar think $150k houses are the cheapest thing ever, and they buy them by the dozen. Not sure when it will all work out, but I may be dead by that time. I’m in my early 40’s.
Out here in Arizona, we get more than a few people who come here to retire. Just think of it… Mountains! Sunsets! Golf!
Then these people come to the realization that their friends and family are far away. And, guess what, once they’ve moved West, they’re out of sight and out of mind. (Sorry, Facebook. You’re a poor substitute for F2F interaction.)
We have more than a few people who end up very lonely and depressed. You see them in various community groups. They’re the ones who exude desperation — they’re that hungry for companionship.
In many cases, they would have been better off back in Jersey.
Being a resident of the frosty north, I’ve heard suggestions to buy a vacation and eventual retirement pad in the southern US. Especially now while they’re cheap. Regardless of what’s going to happen with pricing, I have no intention of buying because I’d rather winter (and freeze) with friends and family here.
I never really got why people who claim to love their families so much would simultaneously dream of retiring a thousand miles away. And then beg the kids to come visit…I can see it if the family feelings are more ambivalent and one is a serious golfer or something.
Older people seem to hate snow. And there doesn’t seem to be anywhere warm and cheap with jobs. Older people don’t need jobs, but their extended family does.
“Cheap with jobs” is an oxymoron. It’s part of the whole “raise prices to what the market will bear” meme that I’ve been flogging. If there are jobs, then the market can bear price hikes, because… there are jobs.
I’ve got cheap with good job. But I had to buck social norms and put up with a few inconveniences to avoid spending every available dollar on shelter.
Old people + ice = broken hips.
Broke hips + high cost of living = poor medical care.
Poor medical care + old people = dead by December.
My mother-in-law broke her hip when she slipped and fell on a polished floor at a funeral home. In Florida. Old people can break a hip pretty much anywhere.
That’s true, but I know how often my grandma fell in Wisconsin and how often she’s fell in AZ, and the numbers dropped significantly and stopped clustering around winter time.
My mother broke her hip and wrist this past February. Crumbling walk in front of the house, which was fixed this fall. That walk was scary to me while I was back there in February/March. And, wouldn’t you know it, weather was too cold to fix it then.
Any-hoo, Mom made a fine recovery. And, for that, I am grateful.
Then these people come to the realization that their friends and family are far away.
If they get to feeling too sorry for themselves have them call me.
I’ll explain the word “far”.
We have more than a few people who end up very lonely and depressed.
That’s why the “go rent somewhere cheap” meme that pops up here on HBB doesn’t work for everyone. The value of the place you call “home” is more than simply financial.
Many histories of the Old West talk about people going crazy out here, because of the isolation. Lots of places in the country are almost as isolated as they were in the 1880s.
Get away from major cities, and/or 10 miles away from the
Interstates, and there is ZERO cellphone coverage, much less 3 or 4G.
“Get away from major cities, and/or 10 miles away from the
Interstates, and there is ZERO cellphone coverage, much less 3 or 4G.”
This is also true in parts of King County, Washington (Seattle environs). Due to terrain, reception is spotty.
I have friends who cannot get high speed internet at their homes and they live less than a half hour away from me.
I have to say it only took a couple of rainy nights and almost losing an unfamiliar road for me to realize that I am better off in a closer in neighborhood. And that doesn’t include being neighbors with large wild critters that might consider me to be food.
It is still a very Mormon town, someone from the East is going to have acute cultural shock within that area. It is in a very scenic area, almost as scenic as Sedona in my opinion but no way near as cool. Of course, housing prices are a fraction of Sedona prices.
My wife lived in Utah (Tooele) when she was a teen. She said it was kind of surreal. Being non LDS meant you were an outsider, big time.
Gotta be tougher for a non member to live in a small-town Utah LDS community like “Toowillow” than in SLC.
Lots of small towns out here on the Plains dominated by long time Catholic/Lutheran churches.
Good luck moving into them, unless you are related to someone. Even then, you’ll be under observation/scrutiny 24/7/365.
My brother had a solution. Moon them. To file a complaint, they would have to admit to spying on you.
You’ve got to be kidding. I live in Catholic & Lutheran Land, and I find it hard to believe any of them give a rip. Sounds like paranoia to me.
spying on you
The difference is, the Catholics are making sure you are drinking.
Lutherans drink too.
Lutherans drink too.
Yeah, but not enough.
I meant the difference with the LDS spies, though.
I just queried my wife (half-asleep on the couch) for the correct (local) pronunciation of Tooele.
It’s “toowilla” (not “toowillow,” as my failing mind thought earlier in the day)…
“Lots of small towns out here on the Plains dominated by long time Catholic/Lutheran churches.”
You are talking about my roots, brother. Both mom and dad grew up in small Lutheran towns (under 400 population) in flyover country.
The advantage was an incredibly tight-knit, mutually supportive, self-sustaining society. During GD1, they had no cash, and had to be extremely resourceful (e.g. “flour-sack drawers” = underwear made out of those large burlap bags in which flour is sold), but they had farmland and livestock, and they could throw a barn-raising party as needed to build a structure. Despite the lack of cash flow, they had pretty much everything they needed to survive within the confines of their small community.
The disadvantages?
1) If you weren’t a Lutheran, you were a highly-suspect, economically ostracized nobody. (Hence everyone in town was a Lutheran.)
2) Entertainment was rounding up the neighborhood gang for a game of baseball (not all bad here — for instance, my uncle managed to get himself a contract offer from the St Louis Browns at the age of 17).
3) There were three career paths (for men, only): Farming, teaching school or leading the church. And picking doors number two or three meant moving away, as there was only one school teacher (K-8) and one pastor for the town’s only church congregation. Women had only one career path: Running the household, which entailed multitasking over cooking, cleaning, tending the garden (if there was one), having babies and caring for children, getting together with the other ladies for quilting, canning or pickling fruits and vegetables for the cold months, etc etc etc.
4) Everyone had to instantly switch from German to English as their sole mode of communication during WWII, in order to avoid the fate of Japanese U.S. citizens (interment camps). Luckily for the Germans, they blended in perfectly well with other Midwest descendants of white European ancestors.
In light of all of the above, I am way impressed with my maternal grandmother, who somehow survived life in this milieu despite her early training as a concert pianist and her college degree in Latin from Washington University. I couldn’t have done it…
“Lutherans drink too.”
Bad Lutherans drive other Lutherans to drink.
True story: One of my uncles smuggled beer into his private preparatory school for entering the Lutheran ministry and got caught. He entered some kind of terrestrial purgatory as a punishment, but survived to enter the seminary and become a pastor.
P.S. Mormons drive Lutherans to drink, too. I know, because I live with a bunch of Mormons, and I am drinking and typing this very moment.
I knew “for sure” that Utah was in a bubble when they started to build luxury homes in Tooele.
Tooele has a “suburb” called Stansbury Park, which where my wife lived with her parents (her dad was a mining engineer). Stansbury became a near ghost town in the 1980’s. Even the streets were crumbling. We passed through in the late 1990’s. I didn’t recognize the place. All the empty lots were gone and were full of McMansions. The golf club was spruced up. I can only imagine how the bubble further changed the place.
“recently forfeited a deposit on a condominium in Rockland County, N.Y., because they couldn’t sell their three-bedroom home in nearby Stony Point.”
Putting down a non-refundable deposit before the current home is sold?
Geez.
Ever heard of a contingency?
“but she didn’t appreciate just how remote the town of 4,000 is.”
Wow. Just wow. wonder how much if any they looked around the area before making that move.
Reminds me of friends who bought a house in Peekskill NY.
The day I helped them move in the didn’t know precisely where the Metro North train station was in relation to their house. (I know I may be a bit OCD, but that is one of the first things I’d check out when home shopping.)
…they
couldn’tWOULDN’T sell their three-bedroom home….Precisely, Rio. Selling an asset makes use of basic transactional economics. Put it on the market at price $X. Wait. If you wait too long, drop the price. Wait again. Repeat. If you’re waiting too long in general, drop the price more steeply. For a house, the price won’t go to zero, so it’s not like you’re gonna give it away.
But 1/3rd of the population is mortgaged, and that profoundly alters this process. There’s a floor in the pricing process, and the seller tends to not go below that, regardless of market signals. Hence, foreclosures and short sales… which are fixing the problem, when they’re allowed to function. (That’s another problem.)
We downsized and are very happy.
Same city near friends and family.
lower costs all the way around, tiny mortgage will be paid off before we retire.
Walkable area close to transit, will help lower auto expenses later.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204005004578080561639348492.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_second
Sorry, don’t know how to minimize link.
(in Batman voice) Must…. keep… houses…. off… market…
The Daily Grind~
http://www.infowars.com/george-carlin-on-the-illusion-of-choice/
Watch this and then when the dimwits here attempt to detract from the truth, you’ll better understand who the dimwits are.
Do you believe in free will?
Good point, Ryan. While there are many things that happen and we have no say in it, I believe the majority of our “pain” is self imposed (in this country), due to the impulse of instant gratification.
I believe the majority of our “pain” is self imposed (in this country), due to the impulse of instant gratification.
America has the most intense and relentless instant gratification propaganda that I’ve ever seen in any country.
Combine this with America’s availability and pushing of cheap credit and we have a big mind-bending and cruel experiment in consumer brainwashing. And who benefits? What group?
Nope. As soon as you learn about pain and pleasure the die is cast.
It’s a big f….ing club, and you ain’t in it!
George Carlin
I read somewhere over the weekend that the NY FED admitted that the s&p 500 would be at 600 without FED intervention in the markets.
Can you imagine where home prices would be if they actually foreclosed on everyone not paying their mortgage?
WHAT? And have the “free hand of the market” go wild?
The free sh*t army would not stand for that. And they vote. 47% of the time.
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” — Barack Hussein Obama second inaugural address
I thought that was Adam Smith?
“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith
“As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce. ”
Adam Smith
Yes, well, we have people in this country who demand a rent just for existing.
Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Smith’s point is that the original purpose of governmentwas to protect those with property from those without. People like Jefferson agreed with this, and sought to establish a commonwealth of property owners, all of whom would have an interest in maintaining the state.
I often think of this when I hear people say we should be a nation of renters, ready to fly at moment’s notice to the next job site anywhere in the country.
who demand a rent just for existing
That’s what “to each according to his needs” means.
http://obamaphone.net/how-do-i-get-an-obama-phone
“…who demand a rent just for existing.”
They are the 47 percent!
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.”
Our boy Adam Smith again.
“…love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.”
Fawkin’ equity locusts…
those who have paid for property should be defended against those who would take it. most would not try to take it, but the few who would, must be defended against.
without that simple principle, a civil society would collapse into tribalism or worse.
nah - how do you think national socialists or obamas come to power?
It will all collapse eventually. It always does.
Now pay your fair share.
those who have paid for property should be defended against those who would take it
The key is to have enough fellow property owners to have numerical superiority over the those who do not own property. This will result in a society that naturally values private property rights, and force will rarely have to be used in their protection.
alpha, that is precisely what we have now. The defense is called HARP and HAMP and FHA 3.5% and all the rest. There are enough fellow property owners who want to keep house prices high that they can elect officials who promise to keep house prices high. That prevents those who would “take” the property at a lower price, from taking the property. Except for the odd eviction in the papers, there has been very little force.
I often think of this when I hear people say we should be a nation of renters, ready to fly at moment’s notice to the next job site anywhere in the country.
I think this is the plan. Whether is was from the start of the bubble is grist for the conspiracy theorists, but the top 1-5% buying up as much as possible in order to rent it out to everyone else is the plan now.
Whether it will pan out is another story.
Big Money Bets on a Housing Rebound
As the foreclosure crisis grinds on, knowledgeable, cash-rich investors are doing something that still gives many ordinary Americans pause: they are leaping headlong into the housing market. And not just into tricky mortgage investments, collateralized this or securitized that, but actual houses.
A flurry of private-equity giants and hedge funds have spent billions of dollars to buy thousands of foreclosed single-family homes. They are purchasing them on the cheap through bank auctions, multiple listing services, short sales and bulk purchases from local investors in need of cash, with plans to fix up the properties, rent them out and watch their values soar as the industry rebounds. They have raised as much as $8 billion to invest, according to Jade Rahmani, an analyst at Keefe Bruyette & Woods.
The Blackstone Group, the New York private-equity firm run by Stephen A. Schwarzman, has spent more than $1 billion to buy 6,500 single-family homes so far this year. The Colony Capital Group, headed by the Los Angeles billionaire Thomas J. Barrack Jr., has bought 4,000.
Perhaps no investment company is staking more on this strategy, and asking stock-market investors to do the same, than the one Mr. Miller is involved with, Silver Bay Realty Trust of Minnetonka, Minn. Silver Bay is the brainchild of Two Harbors Investment, a publicly traded mortgage real estate investment trust that invests in securities backed by home mortgages.
In January, Two Harbors branched out into buying actual homes and placed them in a unit called Silver Bay. It offered few details at the time, leaving analysts guessing about where it was headed.
“They were not very forthcoming,” says Merrill Ross, an analyst at Wunderlich Securities. As of Dec. 4, Two Harbors had acquired 2,200 houses. Ms. Ross says she couldn’t find out how much Two Harbors paid or the rents it was charging. Two Harbors shares, which recently traded at $11.66, are up about 25 percent in 2012.
Two Harbors now plans to spin off Silver Bay into a separately traded public REIT. The new company will combine Silver Bay’s portfolio with Provident Real Estate Advisors’ 880-property portfolio. Silver Bay will focus on homes in Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and Nevada, states where prices fell hard when the bottom dropped out.
The key is to have enough fellow property owners to have numerical superiority over the those who do not own property.
no, that’s just ‘might makes right’. the key is understanding that society has a responsibility to protect all people against theft.
This will result in a society that naturally values private property rights, and force will rarely have to be used in their protection.
no, it would result in a society that does whatever it thinks it can get away with. which is precisely the direction we’re moving in. in society we need honor and standard morality. moral relativism is killing us.
‘Two Harbors now plans to spin off Silver Bay into a separately traded public REIT’
These funds all plan to sell, either right away or in a few years. All of them; sound familiar?
I have been getting proposals to do contract work for and around these guys. They are at baby steps. They don’t even know exactly how to go about this and are cold calling people like me to do the various jobs. I can tell from their applications and such that they don’t really know what to expect. There’s no proven model, no economies of scale, and they all have the same exit plan.
Since we are going back into another housing bubble and the government is NEVER going to stop pumping housing up, up and up.
Maybe this is a way to make a buck off of it by investing in TWO (Two Harbors).
————————
In January, Two Harbors branched out into buying actual homes and placed them in a unit called Silver Bay. It offered few details at the time, leaving analysts guessing about where it was headed.
“They were not very forthcoming,” says Merrill Ross, an analyst at Wunderlich Securities. As of Dec. 4, Two Harbors had acquired 2,200 houses. Ms. Ross says she couldn’t find out how much Two Harbors paid or the rents it was charging. Two Harbors shares, which recently traded at $11.66, are up about 25 percent in 2012.
Two Harbors now plans to spin off Silver Bay into a separately traded public REIT. The new company will combine Silver Bay’s portfolio with Provident Real Estate Advisors’ 880-property portfolio. Silver Bay will focus on homes in Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and Nevada, states where prices fell hard when the bottom dropped out.
That’s definitely investing in #2.
“People like Jefferson agreed with this, and sought to establish a commonwealth of property owners, all of whom would have an interest in maintaining the state.”
That’s a great idea. Let’s through out the foreign equity locusts before they suck America dry of the last few pennies worth of wealth we collectively own.
Seriously, folks: How does America benefit by letting all these foreign equity locusts in to outbid us on residential real estate purchases?
And what’s to stop us from kicking them out and repossessing their properties? It would hardly be the first time America experienced a land grab…
“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.”
‘That prevents those who would “take” the property at a lower price, from taking the property.’
You changed the subject, because the posts before yours were talking about stealing land, while your post insinuates the government has some kind of mandate to intervene in the property market and prop up prices.
I don’t believe they have, unless you count Ronald Reagan’s unrepealed Executive Order 12631 as law.
“…they don’t really know what to expect. There’s no proven model, no economies of scale, and they all have the same exit plan.”
I know what to expect, and I can’t wait for it to happen!
How does America benefit by letting all these foreign equity locusts in to outbid us on residential real estate purchases?
And what’s to stop us from kicking them out and repossessing their properties?
Thank you for illustrating my point:
“The key is to have enough fellow property owners to have numerical superiority over the those who do not own property. This will result in a society that naturally values private property rights, and force will rarely have to be used in their protection.”
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” 2011, Mitt Romney explaining his tax plan to cut taxes on the rich and raise taxes on the middle-class. (Because the rich need it)
Speaking of the free sh*t army, here’s a story linked from Drudge about 2,000 Obama voters rioting for their free sh*t:
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/12/08/columbus-apartment-application-crowd-loses-control.html
Hope and Change
Was it required to have a burka on to riot for government subsidized housing?
Or is that how they do it on Somalia?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/03/Obama-administration-paves-the-way-for-sharia-law
2,000 Obama voters rioting for their free sh*t: ??
So how are they any different than these Romney voters other than the color of their skin ??
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+trash&hl=en&tbo=u&biw=1920&bih=992&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NAnGUKGFEMj7yAHizIGoCA&sqi=2&ved=0CFkQsAQ
A google image search for “white trash” is the best you’ve got?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfGLB8LO1aM
Point is that they come in “all” colors Goon…You seem to be laser focused on blacks…
That’s Racist®
One-fifth of South Carolinians want late-night comedian Stephen Colbert to replace Jim DeMint in the Senate, according to a poll released Monday.
This is an actual poll conducted by PPP last week. Colbert leads the pack with 20% while the Tea Party favorite trails at 15%. If Colbert were to fill the empty senator’s seat it would double the IQ of the states current roster of legislators instantly. Gov. Haley could use the help of a well-liked appointment. Forty-nine percent of voters disapprove of her job performance, and only 42 percent approve.
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/ppp-sc-voters-want-colbert-84849.html
That should put to rest the notion that all you have to do is quit your job and that the government checks will simply flow in.
Which is the line for the free Escalades?
Can you imagine where home prices would be if they actually foreclosed on everyone not paying their mortgage?
Yes. They’d be priced right about what they’re worth. (And that isn’t much…. used houses have never been worth that much.)
Without debt, we are nothing. More debt is the path to Recovery®
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-09/if-we-don-t-measure-leverage-we-risk-more-crises.html
“…the NY FED admitted that the s&p 500 would be at 600 without FED intervention in the markets.”
Link, pleaze…
On the assumption that you didn’t make this up, who knew the FED even intervened in the stock market? I knew they bought MBS and Treasurys, but certainly their charter doesn’t permit them gambling in the stock market!?
one bank’s balance sheet has a bunch of crap MBSes…fed comes in and buys the crap at face value. bank takes the money and gambles at the casino.
casino gets rich.
Nice explanation…
link, pleaze
Market Savior? Stocks Might Be 50% Lower Without Fed
CNBC
A report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York suggests that the bulk of equity returns for more than a decade are due to actions by the US central bank.
Theoretically, the S&P 500 would be more than 50 percent lower—at the 600 level—if the bullish price action preceding Fed announcements was excluded, the study showed.
Posted on the New York Fed’s web site Wednesday, the study sought out to explain why equities receive such a high premium over less risky assets such as bonds.
What they found was that the Federal Reservehas had an outsized impact on equities relative to other asset classes.
For example, the market has a tendency to rise in the 24-hour period before the release of the Fed’s statement on interest rates and the economy, presumably on expectations Chairman Ben Bernanke and his predecessor, Alan Greenspan, would discuss or implement a stimulus measure to lift asset prices.
Without the gains in anticipation of a positive Fed action, the S&P 500 would stand at just 600 today, rather than above 1300.
To be sure, one cannot look at these Fed actions in a vacuum and conclude the S&P 500 would plummet 50 percent if the Fed were to undue all of its supportive measures of the last two decades. But that doesn’t mean this exercise can’t be instructive.
For example, proponents of index funds will often argue their case by using data that shows a significant drop in S&P 500’s yearly returns if you took out the five best days of that particular year. The point: you need to always be fully invested so you don’t miss one of those days, which account for the majority of the market’s annual return.
The Fed’s next announcement is due August 1st and it would seem by this study, one would want to make sure they are invested in the market by 2pm on July 31st,
“It’s a QE world,” said Josh Brown, an investment advisor and popular author of The Reformed Broker blog. “We’re all just trading in it.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48165921/Market_Savior_Stocks_Might_Be_50_Lower_Without_Fed
“…if the bullish price action preceding Fed announcements was excluded, the study showed.”
Well see — it’s just bullish optimism by individual investors, not any kind of concerted central planning liquidity injections, which buoys the stock market…
Link to S&P story:
http://www.newsmax.com/StreetTalk/fed-stock-prices-lower/2012/07/13/id/445266
CIBT, praise google. The S&P 600 story is on n e w s m a x, so take it as you will.
“Stock prices would be about 50 percent lower than where they were over a period of more than a decade or so without Federal Reserve action, a Federal Reserve Bank of New York report finds.”
The link will post in a minute…I’ll also look for the referenced NY Fed report (newsmax didn’t have the link to it, which is kind of suspicious..)
Does the Fed’s charter actually authorize it to manipulate stock prices?
In the article that alpha posted, the Fed isn’t doing the manipulation. The stock market has been Pavlov-trained to manipulate itself on anticipation of Fed actions. It’s de facto.
I feel sorry for the actual OPM dogs. Lots of slobber, no food.
Does the Fed’s charter actually authorize it to manipulate stock prices?
All they have to do is print money and stock gets repriced accordingly.
50%? try 97%
Does the Fed’s charter actually authorize it to manipulate stock prices?
We’ve discussed this before, but the “President’s Working Group on Financial Markets”, otherwise known as the “Plunge Protection Team” includes the Chairman of the Federal Reserve…
“I knew they bought MBS and Treasurys, but certainly their charter doesn’t permit them gambling in the stock market!?”
http://www.economist.com/node/18178399
The stock market IS gambling.
My father was a stock broker and my first job was working in his office.
Traders and stock brokers are 90% gambling addicts.
True story: My father’s father was a bonds analyst on Wall Street. And, sad to say, he had more than a passing acquaintance with gambling.
“True story: My father’s father was a bonds analyst on Wall Street. And, sad to say, he had more than a passing acquaintance with gambling.”
Wall street is driven by two primal emotions, fear and greed.
The stock market IS gambling.
Seems more like organized crime to me.
az and how Us horrible disgusting renters might have lower rent too … housing would not be in short supply for years..
According to the National Association of Realtors, non-American buyers accounted for $82 billion in home sales last year. More than $7 billion of that is by the Chinese, who are now the second largest foreign home purchasers after Canadians. They’re buying high-end, multimillion-dollar homes from California to New York and paying cash.
The Chinese like the U.S. because their money goes further. In Shanghai, $2 million might only get you a two-bedroom condo.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/27/chinese-buyers-lead-foreign-investment-in-us-housing-market/#ixzz2EenKiM00
New York Times - U.S. Study Sees China as No. 1 Economy by 2030:
“A new intelligence assessment of global trends projects that China will outstrip the United States as the leading economic power before 2030, but that America will remain an indispensable world leader, bolstered in part by an era of energy independence.
The product of four years of intelligence gathering and analysis, the study, by the National Intelligence Council, presents grounds for optimism and pessimism in nearly equal measure.
One remarkable development it anticipates is a spreading affluence that leads to a larger global middle class that is better educated and has wider access to health care and new communications technologies like the internet and smart phones.
At the same time, it warns, half of the world’s population probably will be living in areas that suffer severe shortages of fresh water.
“There will not be any hegemonic power,” the 166 page report states. “Power will shift to networks and coalitions in a multipolar world.”
At the same time, it warns, half of the world’s population probably will be living in areas that suffer severe shortages of fresh water.
And the air in their cities will be toxic. But they’ll have smart phones, so it’s all good.
And with global wage arbitrage, median household incomes in USA (in real $ not according to lying liar Fed inflation and lying liar CPI) will be less than $30,000.
Welcome to the recoveryless recovery.
The future belongs to Lucky Ducky!
When the Chinese finish soiling their nest and polluting their water, they will look around and see similar situations to their south and west, an ocean to their east, and a whole lot of almost unpopulated, undeveloped, water and resource rich land to their north- Siberia.
That’s when things might start getting interesting.
I can already see the new cities, housing 10 million Foxconn workers, rising in the not for long pristine Russian steppes. The Chinese will have to build a lot of infrastructure though.
Without question; Russia and China are NOT allies for this very reason. Russia isn’t foolish, they know that the Eye of Sauron in Beijing will gaze upon Siberia sooner rather than later.
I thought the Japanese economy was sleighted to be No. 1 for the 21st century (at least it was before the twenty-year-long depression they entered around 1990…).
You wonder, while China has not quite caught up with us in national debt as a percentage of GDP, they are not very far behind, if you believe Roubini, the numbers from his blog last year:
Saturday, September 17, 2011
The real public debt of China is 80 percent of GDP
Nouriel Roubini : If you are looking at the Chinese banks they have a huge amount of exposure to state and local government to state owned enterprise and to these special purpose vehicles that have done the financing of the local investment , has been several trillion Yuans , now we estimate that about 30 percent of these loans are going to go into default and becoming non performing , so the aid is going to be certainly on the Chinese banks some of them are going to be back stopped by the local government if the local government cannot do the job it is going to be the central government , at the end of the day the banking crisis are going to be losses of some agents of the government either state owned banks or the provincial government or the central government and that’s why the official debt of China is 17% of he GDP at the central level but when you add the banks the state and local government and all the other liabilities we are already estimating that the public debt of China is already 80% of GDP , so you are going to have an MPL problem , you’ll have a public debt and deficit problem then you’ll going to have an investment boom going bust problem and that’s why we are going to have a hard landing in China by 2013 at the latest - in Bloomberg
If Nouriel Roubini is correct, could they even afford to become a world power when they are aging faster than we are and thus will have higher retirement costs than us in the near future?
More than $7 billion of that is by the Chinese ??
President of CB is actively recruiting them;
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercurynews.com%2Fbusiness%2Fci_22146741%2Fmercury-news-interview-rick-turley-coldwell-bankers-president&ei=hwvGUPfVF7ODyAHp_YGYBw&usg=AFQjCNFGhoc-NV0sLEEB2Lv1o_LBmKQkjQ
more krill needed
Q: We’ve heard lots about Asian investors buying Bay Area real estate. You’re about to fly to China to speak to groups of investors in Shanghai and Hangzhou. What are they interested in when it comes to investing in the Bay Area?
A: We’re actually working on a pilot program to help more affluent Chinese who are looking to invest in key U.S. cities and possibly emigrate. We’re partnering with an immigration company that is working with Chinese residents considering investing in the U.S., purchasing real estate and creating jobs here. Coldwell Banker is positioned in all the large metros that they’re interested in on both coasts and Chicago and Dallas. They are very attracted to schools, to quality higher learning.
Q: This sounds like the wave of the future.
A: Exactly. This has happened on kind of a single basis here and there, where maybe a single agent has flown over and done a trade show. But this is the first time a company has recognized that we could provide a service and a clear path. I’m going to talk about six major cities of interest, of which San Francisco-Silicon Valley is probably highest on their radar.
San Francisco, California has the highest per capita concentration of Chinese Americans of any major city in the United States, at an estimated 21.4% and contains the second-largest total number of Chinese Americans of any U.S. city.
When we were looking at houses, we figured out pretty quickly that if it was a Chinese seller with a Chinese American RE agent, we didn’t have a chance. For sale signs in Chinese - we didn’t even bother going to the open house.
“The Chinese like the US because the government protects oligarchs, instead of shooting some of them”
Fixed.
They have to do something with all those bribes they collect. And the funds they skim. Best to get it out of the country, as they might hope to follow and get out of China.
My wife was talking with one of the other moms at our daycare this past weekend. The other mom was talking about a daycare closer to their home which she used for awhile before she moved her son to the daycare where my son attends.
The other daycare was just about as expensive as the one we both currently used but each family had to sign a contract saying that not only would they pay the monthly fee but also “volunteer” a certain number hours each month to the daycare. The only example my wife gave me was that one family volunteered to prepare the monthly daycare newsletter which was reviewed by the daycare director.
Just a stupid ass business model or yet another sign of an inflationary environment?
This is in the DC metro area and the daycare is full.
Just another way to extract work without pay (or bennies). NYCdj is correct in this respect. Companies love interns and volunteers.
I know someone who volunteered to grade papers at a local school. A lot of retired people do it too. This person has prior teaching experience. I asked them: did you know that by volunteering, you’re robbing a young teacher or teacher aide of a job? How would you have felt about that when YOU were a young teacher aide?
I used to do all sorts of volunteer photography. No more.
Finally came to the realization that it just wasn’t leading to referrals to paying work. BTW, that is a big reason why so many photographers and other creative types volunteer. It’s because we’re told that the people who are getting our work for free will be so grateful that we’ll be word-of-mouthed to people who will pay us.
These days, it works like this: Unless I’m doing a personal project for my blog, my camera doesn’t leave home unless I’m getting paid.
And, speaking of which, I’ve had paying photo gigs for the past two weekends.
And high schools.
My kids had to do 40 hours of “volunteer” work to pass one of their mandatory classes.
When you add-up everything the “stay at home mom” option wins. Really!
In the early 2000’s I saw numerous woman-magazine articles about this: families making the calculation and a parent, usually mom, opting to stay home. I think the plan was to stay home until the kid were in school, then mom updates the skillz and go back to work. Those articles disappeared in about 2004. Maybe because they needed to incomes for the McMansion? Because although there were lots of blue-collar construction jobs, the real careers were being quietly outsourced? Because the cost of health insurance skyrocketed? Because it became uncertain whether mom could find a job after a hiatus, especially competing with younger healthier hungrier kids with mountains of student loans?
Saw a news report on TV once, where they calculated how much a mom was taking home from her job, after paying for a decent second car, work clothes, sitters, carry-out food, etc.
Her take home after expenses? $3/hour.
The ex- went back to school and got her R.N. after we had the second/third kids, lived 5 plus years on my salary alone.
Money was tight, but not as tight as you might think.
Better yet.
Get “divorced” on paper.
Single mom with kids.
Obama will then take care of you!
Obamaphones, SNAP, obamacare, etc. I think the government will even pay you to stay home to take care of the children (especially if you can get them all on SSI).
Might as well play the game.
Errr. Doesn’t the state open op an account in the Daddy’s name? This becomes a debt in the Fathers name, right?
Might as well play the game.
The laws force some of us into this position whether we want it or not. #gaymarriage
If we broke up, who would we fight with?
Secession petitions: Why Americans don’t really want to break up
BBCNews
Independence movements are on the march in many Western countries, but the secessionists who have been making news in the US since last month’s election are not, realistically, going anywhere. Americans are, in fact, unusually keen to stick together. Why is this?
The USA is a divided country, we’re often told, polarised in a cultural civil war between the blue and red bits on its map.
Unlike almost all of their Western counterparts, however, Americans appear remarkably happy to stay together despite their differences.
While separatist parties are thriving in Canada and Europe, recent bids to take individual states out of the union have only served to demonstrate just how little appetite there is for this kind of politics in the US.
A series of petitions has been posted on the White House website calling for each of the 50 states to be allowed to secede.
So far Texas, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, North Carolina, Alabama, Oklahoma and Ohio have all attracted more than 25,000 names apiece - entitling them an official response from the administration.
In the context of the US population of 312 million, however, the numbers involved are minuscule.
Some 700,000 people in total are estimated to have signed so far - around 0.2% of all Americans. Even Texas’s 118,000 signatures - the most of any state - represent less than 0.5% of its inhabitants.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20633042
Break up, to make up that’s all we do. kiss kiss.
Looks like we’re stuck with each other, Dusty.
Bro hug?
Until the government gravy train stops…
Trust fall……..
“Bro hug?”
That reminds me…I’ve been hearing Sodom and Gomorrah doom-and-gloom progostications from my wife on this story:
Same-Sex Issue Pushes Justices Into Overdrive
By ADAM LIPTAK
Published: December 9, 2012 256 Comments
WASHINGTON — Life moves fast these days, and so does the law.
In the civil rights era, the Supreme Court waited decades to weigh in on interracial marriage. On Friday, by contrast, the court did not hesitate to jump into the middle of one of the most important social controversies of the day, agreeing to hear two cases on same-sex marriage.
By taking both, the court gave itself the chance to issue a sweeping ruling that would cast aside bans on same-sex marriage nationwide. But the speed with which the court moved also raised the possibility of a split decision, one that would provide federal benefits to same-sex couples married in states that allow such unions but would permit other states to forbid gay and lesbian couples from marrying.
Gay rights advocates said they were optimistic that the time had come for marriage equality across the nation.
“We are at a major turning point in the arc of gay and lesbian rights,” said Suzanne B. Goldberg, a law professor at Columbia. “The cases are moving fast, and the country is as well.”
…
Gay marriage is Racist®
The most interesting part of the case is whether states that don’t let homosexual couples marry will have to recognize the marriages from other states. Loving vs. Virginia got rid of everything at once for the anti-miscegenation laws, but I could see this possibly going a little more piecemeal. States rights are on every side of this thing. One of the more interesting arguments is that banning gay marriage denies a woman the right to do something that a man could do (marry a woman) and denies a man the right to do something that a woman could do (marry a man). Then again, we don’t have an equal rights amendment based on gender.
Justice Kennedy is going to have a lot on his plate. Then again, he wrote Lawrence vs. Texas, so he has been in that position before.
It’s economics, plain and simple. Most long-time gay rights activists will confirm that gay marriage as an issue was the furthest thing from our minds when the movement got going.
Gay marriage and gays in the military as a rallying point?? Most of us were surprised. It was an agenda that picked us, not the other way around.
Victory for lesbian, years after her longtime partner’s death
It was a wonderful life.
That’s how Edith Windsor describes her partnership with Thea Clara Spyer. Theirs was not a fleeting romance — the women were together 42 years sharing ups and downs, laughs and tears. They also shared what they’d earned together, including from Windsor’s job as a programmer with IBM and Spyer’s work as a psychologist.
“We were mildly affluent and extremely happy,” Windsor said. “We were like most couples.”
But even after they married in 2007 in Toronto, some 40 years into their courtship, the two women were not “like most couples” in the eyes of the state of New York, where they lived, nor in the eyes of the U.S. government, which under the Defense of Marriage Act mandates that a spouse, as legally defined, must be a person of the opposite sex.
This fact hit Windsor hard in 2009, while in a hospital after suffering a heart attack a month after Spyer’s death. As she recovered and mourned, Windsor realized she faced a hefty bill for inheritance taxes — $363,053 more than was warranted, she later claimed in court — because Spyer was, in legal terms, little more than a friend.
DOMA would deny soldier’s wife benefits
“It was incredible indignation,” Windsor recalled feeling. “Just the numbers were so cruel.”
SF: Maybe if gay people looked at marriage as a JOBS bill, maybe people might get it.
How can any Repub be against creating JOBS?
Having played string quartets at gay marriages, I agree with you dj — legitimizing gay marriage would offer economic stimulus, at least in the few liberal-minded states that adopted it.
If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t marry a gay. How is there any confusion?
First you love me…. then you hate me…..That’s a game…. for fools
Suzanne researched this!
Washington Post piece on the recoveryless recovery
Is the economy creating a lost generation?
“This is not a good time to be starting out in life. Jobs are scarce, and those that exist often pay unexpectedly low wages. Beginning a family — always stressful and uncertain — is increasingly a stretch. The weak economy begets weak family formation.
The most startling evidence of the broken escalator is the collapse in marriages and births. Marriage has been declining for years. Now, in a new study, the Pew Research Center finds that in 2011 the U.S. birth rate fell to its lowest level since at least 1920, the earliest year of reliable statistics.
The bleak labor market has hurt all age groups, but none more than the young. Consider the 23.4 million Americans who, on average, were considered “underemployed” over the past year. This group consists of 12.7 million officially unemployed; 8.2 million working part-time but wanting full-time jobs; and 2.5 million desiring work but so discouraged they’d stopped looking. Of all these workers, 41 percent (9.5 million) were 30 or under, far in excess of their labor force share of 27 percent”
NAR-scum please remind us again about “pent-up demand” for household formation.
Welcome to the recoveryless recovery.
The future belongs to Lucky Ducky!
The Fourth Turning.
There’s pent up desire to form households. What is lacking is the ability (good paying jobs) to make it happen.
There’s pent up desire to form households. What is lacking is the ability (good paying jobs) to make it happen.
Went to a holiday party this weekend. It was a friend of my wife’s from high school. Everyone we met there was surprised that my wife and I had been together since college… we’re in our late 30’s. Most everyone we met had gotten together within the last five to seven years. Many were on their second marriage, or in the case of my wife’s friend and her boyfriend, recovering from a first marriage.
Fifty years ago, it didn’t matter how much money you had, you got married in your early to mid twenties and started a family. You also stuck it out in a marriage, “For better or worse, in sickness and in health”. Today, not so much…
I only know one couple from my graduating class (2003) that got married. There were a few couples I know who met in my law school graduating class, but still not many. Almost everyone I know met their partner/spouse after med school/law school/etc.
From what I’ve seen, the more educated and well-to-do parents tend to emphasize waiting to marry and have children. These days marrying young is associated with being a poors.
That’s what makes Mormons unusual. Even today the ones with money tend to marry as undergrads and start having kids right away, even while still in college. Usually means they’re living pretty poor through their 20s, but I think once they’re established they tend to have better lives than those you describe. Staying with the same spouse makes them financially better off, and they seem to enjoy having grandkids while still young enough to do things with them.
I’m in a ward that includes the local university grad students so I get to watch it in action.
Carl
We bought our fixer from a wonderful Morman gal. The ward in our area had a Christmas Music event last night (Dorothy is in the choir), but I started to get sick. I told her I would be there, but I am under the weather for sure.
When I think of Dorothy, I think of a radiant light of love. She practices her faith. Our buyers were Mormans as well.
it didn’t matter how much money you had, you got married in your early to mid twenties and started a family. You also stuck it out in a marriage, “For better or worse, in sickness and in health”. Today, not so much… ??
Spot on…Kinda….Much different environment that twenty somethings face in todays America compared to then…IMO, much, much harder to get ahead….Many fewer good opportunities…Much more expensive for everything…
Even today the ones with money tend to marry as undergrads and start having kids right away ??
Key word…..Money….
This does not sound right to me, re: people with money marrying early. I went to an HYP Ivy and out of our class of 1300, I’m unaware of anyone who married prior to graduation. Moreover, as said above, I only know 1 couple that married reasonably soon after graduation, which was while she was in grad school at Columbia. The vast majority waited quite a bit–as I said, usually after grad school. The most common trajectory was to date for several years (3, 4, 5…) before marrying.
I also see very few birth announcements in our monthly alumni email. One or two a month. And my classmates are 30-31 now (’03). I’ve gone to reunions nearly every year–the average person from my college class is in a relationship but childless, despite coming from money and making a lot of it as well. I’m not as active with my law school’s alumni network, but I doubt it’s much different. LS is also different people some people in my LS class took time off between college and LS and some were even in their 30s.
The quickest to marry and breed in the US these days are the poors. And that’s a fact.
If you’re replying to my post, the ones without money do it too. My use of the word “even” is because most people with money are the ones who avoid that path outside of the Mormons. Mormons are the only ones I know of that are consistently marrying and having kids early whether they are elites or laborers.
having kids early whether they are elites or laborers ??
I have come to know a few…Getting married & having a family is a natural extension of their faith…But it cannot happen in a vacuum…They must have money, support, a good job or all three….Mormons help each other…Even if not related…
“Mormons help each other…Even if not related…”
Commie talk!
“The quickest to marry and breed are the poors….”
Any why is that? Maybe they need to get out of dysfunctional households, and the only way to do so in an era of Lucky Ducks $8/hour jobs is to shack up with their boyfriends. Or, in several cases, kids have been kicked out of the house at 18, because “I supported myself when I was eighteen….”
(Yeah, that was then, back in the days when just about anyone could hire on at a factory job and make $10/$15 hour, plus decent benefits. And gas was a buck a gallon. And you could rent a decent place for a few hundred bucks/month. Things are a little different now.)
And for some reason, around here there is significant pressure from the parents/grandparents for them to start kicking out kids, so that they “can see their grandkids before they die” or to “pass on the family name”.
XGSfixr -
It seems like such a bad trade off to get married to get out of a dysfunctional family. Why not have a roommate or two?
I think the real reason has something to do with idleness and boredom. For women, it’s a much easier route to appear successful to be married and start popping out kids, compared to going out into the world and having some success and getting an education before settling down.
From what I can tell, the accepted wisdom today is to wait until your 30’s to marry and 40’s to have children. This seems to be because it is assumed that by then you will be financially stable and you want to give your child every advantage (which costs money).
The problem is the risk of birth defects increases dramatically as women approach 40 and over. And don’t get me started on the idea of being 40+ with a newborn, being 60+ with a high school age child.
joesmith, your post implys that there is some actual thinking, some actual planning involved in these people’s lives.
If only that were so…
“I’m not as active with my law school’s alumni network, but I doubt it’s much different. LS is also different people some people in my LS class took time off between college and LS and some were even in their 30s.”
This isn’t going to be popular, but it’s because of the group that you’re looking at. Law school grads are mostly high IQ. IQ and children have an increasingly steep inverse relationship, the higher your IQ, the fewer children you are statistically likely to have. I have a feeling if you looked at any self-selected high IQ group (MENSA, MIT engineering graduates, etc) you’d find a very similar number (small) of children among them.
Sad thing for people who want children, but, frankly, children are (have?) becoming the ultimate luxury item. Average cost for 18 years is going to run you 250K. College another few 100K. Not many people can take that kind of hit, even if they really want children.
becoming the ultimate luxury item
Posted this the other day:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/in-a-slow-economy-baby-is-a-luxury-item/article6063363/
Sad thing for people who want children, but, frankly, children are (have?) becoming the ultimate luxury item.
Yet somehow the poor afford them. Perhaps what you really mean is that having children that you can give everything to has become a luxury? Maybe what the country really needs is more good people who will have children and raise them right, knowing that they will not be able to send them to the schools that rich people send their kids to?
“Key word…..Money….”
Things were nasty in the early seventies, so it was off to the military for me. Looking back it was still the right move.
Perhaps what you really mean is that having children that you can give everything to has become a luxury?
What is the one thing dual career, upper middle class would be parents lack?
A: Free time.
Having kids can really get in the way when a smart couple is busy climbing the career ladder.
Of course, this is the same problem (lack of time) your “Joe and Jane 6 Pack” couples face as well. Plus they can’t afford daycare. And the lay off monster is always nipping at their heels.
These days the people I’m seeing cranking out kids are the military families.
But given that our birthrate is falling, and fast, I’m guessing that even the poor are having second thoughts. Reading about them rioting over a lack of section 8 vouchers, maybe they too are getting the message that it ain’t all that.
In the United States, almost half of all pregnancies are unintended. (according to the CDC).
Having two kids myself, and knowing how challenging it is to raise kids - even when you go into it fully prepared - it blows my mind that 50% of children have parents that were not ready for them.
“I have a feeling if you looked at any self-selected high IQ group (MENSA, MIT engineering graduates, etc) you’d find a very similar number (small) of children among them.”
But due to better survival odds and job prospects later in life, this select group may have a disproportionately large population footprint relative to their numbers. (I’m reminded of my fifty-year old stat professor and first-time father, himself the son of a famous mathematician who had his first child at age fifty…).
Key words are “birth control pill”.
The real difference people don’t get married in their early twenties like they did fifty years ago — they don’t HAVE to.
I’m betting that the 2 day realtor course defines demand as “people who would like a house, or a better house”, completely ignoring ability to pay.
More news about the Recovery®
“Participation in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or food stamps, reached another high in September, according to new data released by the U.S. Department of agriculture.
The most recent data on SNAP participation were released Friday, and showed that 47,710,324 people were enrolled in the program in September, an increase of 607,559 from the 47,102,765 enrolled in August.
The new numbers mean that an estimated one in 6.5 people in America were on food stamps in September.
In the 1970s, one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Since 2001, spending on the program has quadrupled and doubled in the last four years.
Hope and Change
Forward!
Last year the average monthly benefit was $133 per person. Just over $4 per day. That’s less than what I’m going to spend on lunch at the company cafeteria later today. And when we go off campus for lunch, that easily reaches $10+.
Yeah but the $133/month is in addition to the $300/month of free steak and lobster exclusively for Obama voters. It’s true, it was in an article linked from the Drudge Report
From “welfareinfo.org” website
However, a basic average guideline for the food stamp program will show that an average family of 4 can expect an amount up to $500 per month for food stamps. This figure will greatly vary based on the age of the family members and medical needs. A single person household will show an expected average of up to $200 per month. Again, these figures are averages and not state specific.
Cash allowance benefits for financial assistance will also be state regulated and allowances paid will also vary based on different criteria. However, an average expectation can be placed on a family of 4 receiving up to $900 for their TANF allowance. A single person household can expect an average of up to $300.
These allowance benefits would be separate from any additional welfare benefits received such as child care, medical or utility assistance.
That’s just food stamps. There is other welfare.
You can thank all the union goons for this…
Let them eat iPhone cases!
Seriously… made out of brown rice and salt:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/tech/mobile/edible-iphone-case/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5
The MSM REIC echo chamber is offering a ringing endorsement for the success of the Fed’s housing market reflation efforts. So long as housing prices are going up again, thanks to Fed-funded life support measures, the U.S. economy is saved!
Bloomberg News
Housing Gains Boost Fed’s QE as Rally Spurs Growth: Economy
By Jeff Kearns and Shobhana Chandra on December 04, 2012
A revival in the U.S. housing market is amplifying the impact of the Federal Reserve’s efforts to spur the world’s largest economy.
Home values boosted by record-low mortgage rates are helping improve the finances of both households and banks. That’s easing the flow of credit, providing a further boost to the housing market and the economy, say economists at Bank of America Corp. and Deutsche Bank AG.
“We’re in the very early stages of a reinforcing cycle,” said Michelle Meyer, a New York-based senior economist at Bank of America, the second-biggest U.S. lender by assets. “The Fed has been quite impactful.”
Meyer predicts monthly housing starts could exceed 1 million at an annual rate by the end of 2013, compared with 894,000 in October. Residential construction may add to economic growth this year for the first time since 2005, boosting gross domestic product by 0.3 percentage point, said Deutsche Bank’s Joseph LaVorgna. That contribution may double next year and reach 1 percentage point when related industries such as furnishings and remodeling are added, he said.
“The one thing missing from this economic recovery was a healthy contribution from housing, and we might finally be on the cusp of that,” said LaVorgna, chief U.S. economist for Deutsche Bank in New York, who predicts GDP may grow about 2.5 percent in 2013. “Housing is going to be integral to the economy. We’re assuming it continues to do some of the heavy lifting.”
Securities Purchases
The Fed in September announced it would buy $40 billion a month in mortgage-backed securities in its third round of so- called quantitative easing.
The central bank’s purchases of housing debt have helped drive borrowing costs to all-time lows. The average fixed rate on a 30-year mortgage was 3.32 percent last week, close to the prior’s week’s 3.31 percent that was the lowest on record, according to Freddie Mac.
U.S. home prices jumped 6.3 percent in October from a year earlier, the biggest increase since June 2006, data provider CoreLogic Inc. said today.
Combined sales of new and existing dwellings climbed to a 5.16 million annual pace in October, up 40 percent from July 2010, which was the lowest since comparable data began in 1999. The S&P/Case-Shiller index (S15HOME) of home prices in 20 cities climbed 3 percent in September from a year earlier, the biggest gain since July 2010.
‘An Accelerator’
“Monetary policy is working,” said Yelena Shulyatyeva, a U.S. economist at BNP Paribas SA in New York. “What we’ve seen is a very robust housing recovery this year, particularly in prices. It’s kind of an accelerator for other sectors of the economy, consumption in particular.”
…
“The MSM REIC echo chamber is offering a ringing endorsement for the success of the Fed’s housing market reflation efforts.”
Love the NAR. Their echo chamber endorsements are helping to draw money off of the sidelines and into the economy.
U.S. home prices jumped 6.3 percent in October from a year earlier
Yet prices resumed sinking in October.
Combined sales of new and existing dwellings climbed to a 5.16 million annual pace in October
Yet you have to go all the way back to 1997 when lending rates were 8% to see this low of a demand for housing.
No panic over Italy bond slump…just yet!
Italy Bonds Slump as Monti Says He’ll Resign; Greek Debt Gains
By Lukanyo Mnyanda - Dec 10, 2012 6:25 AM PT
Italian government bonds slumped, with the 10-year yield climbing by the most since August, after Prime Minister Mario Monti said he would resign as he has lost support in Parliament.
Two-year yields jumped to the highest since September as former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and his allies withdrew support for Monti’s government, threatening to derail passage of the 2013 budget. Italy is due to sell bonds and bills this week. Spanish debt also dropped while French, Belgian and Austrian 10- year yields fell to euro-era lows, Greek bonds gained as the country extended the deadline for a buyback of its debt.
“We are seeing a selloff but I wouldn’t call it a panic yet,” said Elwin de Groot, a senior economist at Rabobank Nederland in Utrecht, Netherlands. “The auction this week could be an interesting litmus test for investors. This has also created uncertainty for Europe-wide policy making.”
Italy’s 10-year yields rose 28 basis points, or 0.28 percentage point, to 4.81 percent at 2:23 p.m. London time. They climbed as much as 38 basis points, the most since Aug. 2. The 5.5 percent bond due November 2022 dropped 2.27, or 22.70 euros per 1,000-euro ($1,293) face amount, to 105.84. Two-year rates jumped 34 basis points to 2.32 percent, after rising to 2.47 percent, the highest since Sept. 27.
…
For how many more years should we expect the Sword of Damocles to hang on by a thread over the Eurozone?
Bloomberg News
Italy Vote Will Test EU Nobel Winners After Greek Buyback
By Andrew Frye on December 10, 2012
The imminent end of Prime Minister Mario Monti’s government fueled the largest increase in Italian borrowing costs in four months and threatened to open a new front in Europe’s crisis fight before a year-end summit.
Italian 10-year bond yields jumped 27 basis points to 4.79 percent at 3:45 p.m. in Rome, widening the difference between yields on German bunds of similar maturity by 26 basis points to 349 basis points. Italy’s benchmark FTSE MIB stock index fell 2.5 percent, while Germany’s DAX Index was little changed.
Italy’s government crisis, which pits Monti against billionaire former premier Silvio Berlusconi, is roiling investors and bringing tensions among European Union leaders to the fore. EU heads of state and government, gathering in Oslo today to collect the Nobel Peace Prize, are seeking to present a united front as the resurgent Berlusconi hits the campaign trail with his German-skeptic, anti-austerity message.
“The underlying cracks within the euro zone are actually widening,” Georg Grodzki, head of credit research at Legal & General Investment Management in London, which has about $290 billion of bond funds, said in an interview yesterday. “Investors will be reading Italian politicians’ lips very, very closely.”
…
For how many more years should we expect the Sword of Damocles to hang on by a thread over the Eurozone?
We’ve been having fun playing bass on that thread for years, but now the pitch is getting too high. Oh well…cello it is. Or perhaps we’ll get ahead of the curve and go straight to viola. It’s all fun…nothing to worry about, even though it must be played from below.
Oh please, no, not the viola sonority!
Italian politics is a lot more exciting than U.S. politics:
Europe backs Monti reforms as Italy crisis hits markets
The main entrance of Milan’s stock exchange is pictured in Milan December 10, 2012. REUTERS-Stefano Rellandini
Prime Minister of Italy Mario Monti (R) talks with German Chancellor Angela Merkel (L) and President of France Francois Hollande (2nd L) as Prime Minister of Belgium Elio Di Rupo looks on following the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony at City Hall in Oslo December 10, 2012. REUTERS-Suzanne Plunkett
By James Mackenzie
ROME | Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:37pm EST
(Reuters) - European partners urged the next Italian government on Monday to stick to Prime Minister Mario Monti’s reform agenda, after his decision to resign early and Silvio Berlusconi’s return to frontline politics rattled financial markets.
Monti’s surprise weekend announcement that he would quit because Berlusconi’s People of Freedom (PDL) party had withdrawn its support for his technocrat government pushed up Italy’s borrowing costs and prompted a stock market sell-off.
The campaign for an election expected in February is likely to be fought over Monti’s reform agenda which Berlusconi, his predecessor as prime minister, said had condemned Italy to recession and forced him reluctantly to run for a fifth term.
By contrast European politicians and officials warned that Monti’s policies must continue to prevent a return of the crisis which brought him to power a year ago, when he was charged with rescuing the euro zone’s third biggest economy from the threat of a Greek-style collapse.
“Monti was a great prime minister of Italy and I hope that the policies he put in place will continue after the elections,” European Council President Herman Van Rompuy said in Oslo, where he was part of a European Union delegation receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.
The comments echoed similar remarks in the past two days from policymakers ranging from French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius to the head of the European bailout fund Klaus Regling and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso.
With Rome’s European allies doing little to conceal dismay at the thought of Berlusconi’s return - on a day when his trial on sex charges was also back in the headlines - the billionaire former premier called the EU sniping at him an insult to Italy.
…
Posted: 8:00 a.m. Sunday, Dec. 9, 2012
Foreclosure cases moving like mud
$4 million infusion of cash produces net gain of only 435 cases cleared statewide.
By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Florida’s foreclosure courts have made almost no progress in clearing an overwhelming backlog of cases from their dockets despite a $4 million stipend awarded by lawmakers this year.
As of Oct. 31, there were 377,272 pending foreclosures in Florida’s 20 circuit courts, a net reduction of just 435 cases since the money became available in July, according to the state courts administrator.
Judges say new foreclosure filings have nearly outpaced the number of cases they’ve been able to close as banks work on clearing defaulted loans on hold since the robo-signing freezes and pending the National Mortgage settlement, which was finalized in March.
While the $4 million has helped courts statewide close 69,513 cases in four months, 69,078 new cases were added during the same time period.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/foreclosure-cases-moving-like-mud/nTQxq/ - -
Posted: 5:16 p.m. Monday, Nov. 19, 2012
Rise in Palm Beach County home sales cuts into inventory
By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
But West Palm Beach Realtor Shannon Brink likened the choices of homes available to a department store clearance rack a week after a sale. Inventory has dropped 55 percent from last year to a 4.7 months’ supply in October.
“There is nothing left but the items no one wants,” said Brink, adding that he’s had four buyers looking in the $100,000 range recently end their pursuit for a home. “Or they’ve decided to try and save up more money for a higher down payment because there is virtually nothing left that’s available that doesn’t need repairs or exists in less desirable areas.”
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/rise-in-home-sales-cuts-into-inventory/nS95r/ - 93k -
They need a law that allows speedy foreclosures for abandoned properties in FL (like new laws on their way in IL and NJ).
That would pull a lot of these homes out of the courts…FL has a double-digit vacancy rate and 20% of loans non-current…I’m willing to be A LOT of these homes are empty, abandoned, and stuck in the courts.
We need a ‘normal’ weather year in 2013 or you can whack off another 50-100 billion off the GDP next year.
Stubborn US Drought Could Be Costlier Than Hurricane Sandy
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100294265
On the bright side agricultural methane production (cow farts) will drop dramatically.
It’ll do wonders in the 3rd world. Even beans and rice will be out of reach for many.
Where as the fiscal cliff will only drain off a few billion a month in cuts and taxes this shut down of the Mississippi will be what climate scientist call a ‘negative feedback’. In this case reduced industrial output will lead to lower emissions and waste output. Every 1 inch of reduced barge draft = 61 semi-trailers and cost way more. A barge will move one ton of cargo over 600 miles on one gallon of fuel.
To listen to the ‘experts’ screaming CRISIS:
“This is an economic crisis bearing down on the heartland of the United States. Releasing just a little more water from the Missouri River reservoirs, the nation’s largest reservoir system and one of the largest in the world, over a short period of time will keep businesses open and Americans employed. We urge the White House to take immediate action to resolve this crisis,” said WCI President Mike Toohey.
AWO and WCI continue to emphasize the sheer volume of the commerce that moves on the Mississippi River and how consumers might eventually feel the impacts of further impairment or closure, stating that $7 billion in key products such as corn, grain, coal, petroleum, chemicals and other products remain at risk in December and January alone, including:
- Nearly 20,000 jobs and $130 million in wages in Mississippi River states;
- Over 7 million tons of agricultural products worth $2.3 billion;
- Over 1.7 million tons of chemical products worth $1.8 billion;
- 1.3 million tons of petroleum products worth over $1.3 billion;
- Over 700,000 tons of crude oil worth $534 million; and,
- 3.8 million tons of coal worth $192 million.
Farmers, manufacturers, and shippers are already suffering the consequences of low water, which will continue to grow worse:
- Barges bound for the region have already had their drafts reduced in anticipation of restrictions;
- Grain prices are down, fertilizer prices are up, steel, chemical, petroleum products and coal shipments are being reduced, and some cargoes have been cancelled;
- Employee layoffs and facility shutdowns are being contemplated.
“Rail and truck can only handle a finite amount of the vast amount of cargo that moves by barge, and what can move will be more expensive and the environmental advantages of using barge transportation will be lost. The ripple effects of the potential economic and logistical consequences are an urgent reality that must be addressed,”
http://www.dredgingtoday.com/2012/12/10/usa-clock-continues-to-tick-on-effective-shutdown-of-mississippi-river/
We need to start a list of all of these “crisis”
Nothing is ever a problem, or concern, or issue, or something to keep an eye on.
It’s always a “crisis” “disaster” or “tragedy”
It’s a contest:
The most urgent crisis gets the most money.
If the crisis can be kicked down the road a bit then down the road is where it will be kicked.
“So, what do you do for a living?”
“I’m into crisis management.”
“Crisis management? You mean you solve crisises?”
“No, I create them. That’s where the money is, in creating them. The money begins to flow to me when I create a crisis and the money stops flowing to me if the crisis ever gets solved. So I have to make sure, for job security reasons, that the crisis I create never gets solved. Coped with, perhaps, but never solved.”
Here is one reason I am happy Rmoney did not get elected. There is no way he and his Wall Street bankster crony economist, Glenn Hubbard, would have gone after the too-big-to-fail banks.
U.S., U.K. regulators take on ‘too big to fail’ banks
December 10, 2012, 10:32 AM
U.S. and U.K. regulators fired a shot at the problem of “too big to fail’ institutions Monday, publishing a joint paper on Monday that they described as the first concrete attempt at outlining a plan for winding up large, complex firms that run themselves aground.
Paul Tucker the Bank of England’s deputy governor for financial stability, and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairman Martin Gruenberg, in a joint op-ed in the Financial Times, lamented the way regulators were handcuffed in the midst of the financial crisis. The FDIC only had the power to put insured institutions into receivership; it had no authority to wind down failing bank holding companies or other non-bank financial firms whose activities presented a systemic risk. It was even more desperate in the U.K., were authorities had no bank resolution powers.
Now that both countries have enacted significant legislative reforms, including the Dodd-Frank Act in the U.S., they are ready to put in place orderly liquidation practices to deal with what are known in the business as “global systemically important financial institutions,” apparently also known by the lovely and not-at-all unwieldy acronym, G-SIFIs.
As outlined by Tucker and Gruenberg, unsecured debtholders can expect to see their claims written down to reflect any losses that shareholders can’t cover. Sound subsidiaries – foreign and domestic – would be kept open and operating in order to limit contagion and cross-border complications, they said.
…
It’s a dogs life in China; well it is, as long as you can avoid being eaten.
Tibetan mastiffs have become a go-to luxury good for the country’s moneyed elite, and Yang has been coasting on their popularity. He owns about 40 of the animals, which he breeds in a sprawling brick complex on the agrarian outskirts of Beijing. Last year he sold a puppy for £50,000. One from a rival breeder fetched £945,000 in 2011, making it the most expensive dog ever sold.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/dogs-life-china-pets-sold-meat
Not so good for some naked apes.
It’s around dinnertime on a Friday night and Yang Zailing stands at an intersection near Sanlitun, Chaoyang district, waiting for the traffic lights to turn red.
He wears a black hat, a wool mask covering his mouth and a long jacket. He has only a right arm and limps as he walks toward the queued cars in the unrelenting winter wind. A sign hangs around his neck with a rope, reading, “My children don’t have money to go to school.”
As the lights turns red, Yang holds up a feather duster with his hand and cleans the windshields of the cars that stopped there. Once in a while a window cracks open and a driver slips him a one-yuan bill ($0.16).
Come nightfall, Yang retires to a spot in a nearby underpass.
There are many homeless people in Beijing with stories like Yang’s. They came from all over China and survive by picking trash or begging. Though there are government-funded shelters, many choose to stay on the streets because they don’t want to be sent back to the cities they came from.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/749040.shtml
85 VPs?????????????????
When the government plays the “sugar daddy” in ANY industry - you get bloated and inefficiencies companies to the point of silliness.
But it is the obama way…
—————————–
Fannie and Freddie Employees Rake in the Big Bucks
Aaron Task - Daily Ticker - 12/10/2012
More than 2,000 non-executive senior managers at the two firms were paid over $200,000 in 2011, The Wall Street Journal reports, citing a new report from the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Among those senior managers, the median pay of vice presidents was $388,000 while 1,650 “directors” had a median income of $205,300.
Other findings in the report:
The top 90 executives at the two firms took home a combined $92 million last year.
The median pay for 23 executive vice presidents was $1.7 million.
The median pay for 62 senior vice presidents was $723,500.
On the one hand, taxpayers are still nearly $140 billion in the hole for the multiphase rescue of the two firms so reports of big salaries is sure to outrage many. On the other hand, the government has become increasingly reliant on the GSEs since the housing bubble burst: Fannie and Freddie guarantee $5 trillion in outstanding mortgages and fund about two-thirds of new mortgage loans, The WSJ reports.
“It is absolutely critical that our compensation is competitive in the market,” a Fannie spokeswoman tells The WSJ.
“Someone with a clue about profits would have purchased them and they arguably would have fired all these employees who are clearly overpaid,” he says. “This is why we have free markets so we can get rid of abuses like this — but then again, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac don’t exist in what anyone would remotely call a free market.”
But getting rid of Fannie and Freddie is even harder to contemplate today versus before the housing bubble burst. Just as the banks became “too big to fail” after 2008, the GSEs are more deeply entrenched in the housing market than ever before, as noted above. In addition, Fannie and Freddie have become profitable again, providing a disincentive to lawmakers to rein them in any serious way.
It’s Bush’s fault!
President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options.” (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07).
8/9/07………
Cows running loose. Must be time to shut the barn door.
“It is absolutely critical that out compensation is competitive in the market.”
Lol.
yeah - where have I heard THAT LINE BEFORE???
In TBTF banks that got just got HUGE bailouts
In mortgages companies, right at the top of the market, about one year before they went bankrupt.
“It is absolutely critical that out compensation is competitive in the market.”
That’s Bush’s fault too.
“It is absolutely critical that our compensation is competitive in the market,” a Fannie spokeswoman tells The WSJ.
Anyone who disagrees with the Fannie spokeswoman is obviously racist and a supporter of the war on women.
Just watched this Ted Talk last night - about businesses and compensation and motivation.
Fascinating. Worth watching.
Retaining good talent costs money!
Retaining bad talent eats money.
DryShips - A Good Example Of How The Dry Bulk Industry Is Suffering
November 15, 2012
DryShips (DRYS) reported its third quarter earnings yesterday. The operator of dry bulk carriers topped the revenue estimates but missed on the earnings estimates. I expected the company to miss on the bottom line estimates given the weak spot charter rates for both tankers and dry bulk vessels. DRYS seems to be challenged by both macro and firm-specific factors. On a macro level, the dry bulk industry profits remain plagued by the overcapacity problem (discussed below), weak global demand for dry bulk commodities and scarce opportunities for funding. On a firm-specific level, DRYS’ contract coverage for the next two years is very low. Alongside, the company has decided to reduce and prolong its capital expenditures in the near-term amid a financial crunch. In this situation, DRYS’ shareholding in Ocean Rig (ORIG), drilling rigs’ operator, is a source of hope for the shareholders.
Before the 3Q earnings of DRYS are discussed in detail, it is important to mention how the overall dry bulk industry is currently performing:
Baltic Index Update (BDIY)
The Baltic Dry Index (BDIY) is a good indicator of the dry bulk activity in the world. The index is formed of weighted averages of Baltic Capesize Index (BCI), Panamax Index (BPI), Handymax Index (BHI) and Supramax Index (BSI). Therefore, an upward movement in the index means that there has been a surge in at least any one of the four afore-mentioned indices.
BDIY has recently been showing a peculiar behavior. The index, after falling to 663 points on September 17th, started to rise and crossed the 1100 points mark on 23rd October. Many people started to believe that the global economy is finally turning around, especially the Chinese economy, which is responsible for most of the demand for dry bulk commodities like iron ore, coal and grains. However, I believe the surge was a temporary one, caused primarily by the $156 billion approval by Chinese government for infrastructural development. This is why after crossing the 1100 points mark, the index started falling again and reached 916 points on the 8th of this month.
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I love reading about DRYS; Entertaining as hell.
For a sample, read down some of the comments on the DRYS link until you get to the part where George (the CEO) “… did it to bail out his nephew”.
There is a lead for anyone who cares to pursue the story.
If President Obama gets his way, a lot of folks at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be paying higher taxes in 2013 — and not just the senior executives.
More than 2,000 non-executive senior managers at the two firms were paid over $200,000 in 2011, The Wall Street Journal reports, citing a new report from the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Among those senior managers, the median pay of vice presidents was $388,000 while 1,650 “directors” had a median income of $205,300.
Other findings in the report:
•The top 90 executives at the two firms took home a combined $92 million last year.
•The median pay for 23 executive vice presidents was $1.7 million.
•The median pay for 62 senior vice presidents was $723,500.
Always controversial, Fannie and Freddie have become lighting rods since being taken into conservatorship in 2008 and this report is (almost) guaranteed to generate a strong response.
On the one hand, taxpayers are still nearly $140 billion in the hole for the multiphase rescue of the two firms so reports of big salaries is sure to outrage many. On the other hand, the government has become increasingly reliant on the GSEs since the housing bubble burst: Fannie and Freddie guarantee $5 trillion in outstanding mortgages and fund about two-thirds of new mortgage loans, The WSJ reports.
Given their checkered past, working at Fannie and Freddie doesn’t have the same cache as it did during their “glory years” in the 1990s and early 2000s. But the firms have a critical, ongoing role in the housing market which means that the government (and taxpayers) have an incentive to ensure the firms are staffed with qualified employees.
“It is absolutely critical that our compensation is competitive in the market,” a Fannie spokeswoman tells The WSJ.
Setting aside whether industry compensation itself is out of whack, “the reality is Fannie and Freddie are non-competitive,” says John Tamny, editor of Real Clear Markets. “To say they need to keep these executives around is the problem with bailouts more broadly.”
Among others, Tamny thinks we’d all be better if the government had allowed Fannie and Freddie to fail.
“Someone with a clue about profits would have purchased them and they arguably would have fired all these employees who are clearly overpaid,” he says. “This is why we have free markets so we can get rid of abuses like this — but then again, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac don’t exist in what anyone would remotely call a free market.”
I don’t smoke weed, but a lot of good news these days for those that do.
That good news could lead to general good news if we decriminalize and tax it. Less prison costs, less enforcement costs, less profit for people running the borders from mexico…
I hoe it too crashes the price and ends the border violence. I miss those Baja trips. Just legalize it and tax it, make it as hard to buy as psudaphed.
“I don’t smoke weed, but a lot of good news these days for those that do.”
Two killed at alleged Washington pot house on first day of legal weed
By Andrew Khouri
December 8, 2012, 1:55 p.m.
Two suspected robbers believed to be targeting an alleged home-based marijuana growing operation were killed in a shootout on the first day of legal marijuana in Washington state, authorities said.
The 35-year-old homeowner told detectives he shot the masked intruders Thursday after they broke into his home near Puyallup, Pierce County Sheriff spokesman Ed Troyer said, according Komonews.com. Troyer told the news outlet that the masked men most likely sought to grab the pot and maybe cash.
The Associated Press reported the secluded, luxury home had a security system, a private driveway and that the homeowner had motorcycles, boats and nice cars. (he must have had a really good job to pay for all that and live in such a nice house at 35 IRS are you reading this story?)
The homeowner and his 9-year-old son were not hurt. The homeowner, whose name was not released, was detained, at least pertaining to an illegal growing operation, Troyer told the wire service. He has since been released.
The marijuana at the home was of large quantity, much more than one would need for medicinal use, Troyer said.
The shooting occurred on the first day of legal marijuana in the state. The law, which voters approved in November, allows those 21 and older to possess an ounce or less of pot.
Backers of the initiative hope the law puts an end to the black market marijuana industry, such as the alleged growing operation where the shooting took place.
At the moment, it is still illegal to buy, sell or grow marijuana. The state’s liquor control board is now tasked with drafting a framework for licensing growers, handlers and retailers.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-two-die-at-alleged-washington-pot-house-20121208,0,5128410.story - 205k -
Reefer doesn’t invade your house, robbers do…
Wait…
What?
God damn you corrupt lying realtors.
been shopping for home, realtor tells me inventory low here demand high, prices improving but…but, deal of the day http://www.redfin.com/IL/Burr-Ridge/2-Erin-Ln-60527/home/14050409
Chicago…. Home of NARscum.
The liars and cheats, some of whom reside here to misrepresent the truth about housing, would like you to believe that housing prices are rising as a result of optimism and motivation. Don’t believe them. Not for one second.
The truth?
The median has been skewed upwards due to fewer REO and short sales. But remember…. that inventory of REO and short sale property is building and growing to an unprecedented size.
Neil…. break out the popcorn.
But but but … my house in Santa Clara that I sold increased in price by $40,000 in just 6 months’ time
Mortgage fraud is on the rise and rampant in CA, AZ, FL, NV and OR.
http://www.corelogic.com/research/2012-mortgage-fraud-trends-report.pdf
The AZ mortgage company I used was later shut down. Reason: Fraud relating to a rent-to-own scheme. The AZ attorney general’s office’s lead witness was assassinated. And that a-word was used by one of the investigators in the case when we discussed it in early 2011.
How ironic, low natural gas prices could bring down one of the nation’s largest electric utilities companies.
Energy Futures Holding LLC (the evil spawn of KKR, TPG Capital and Goldman Sachs worth 43 billion) cost bond holders 450 million last week when the company put out a Oct. 30 regulatory filing that it may be liable for $23 billion of taxable income if it cuts ties to units that default.
For background, this deal was setup using extreme leverage by buying billions of Natural Gas futures contracts at $7 mcf (and higher) then using them as collateral to float billions of bonds giving the deal makers huge up front payoffs. Fast forward to today and Nat. Gas is trading for less than half that and TXU will be bankrupt in 12 months or less when the first round of bonds come due.
Let’s get this party started!
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-10/txu-bond-plunge-reaps-450-million-windfall-corporate-finance
A smell a bail out!
Wonder who the bond holders are?
Ca pension funds perhaps?
Here is a damn “big long” article that somehow never mentions all the subsidies the Fed and fedgov are handing over to the deep pocketed investors who can currently afford to step up and buy U.S. residential real estate at a point where U.S. households are still broke and sidelined in the aftermath of the Great Recession.
Heck of a job, Bernanke!
Dear Gawd,
Puhlease let these deep-pocketed real estate investors lose their shirts in the next leg down of the housing crash, in order to improve housing affordability for our children’s generation.
Sincerely,
Professor “Don’t Get Stucco” Bear
Property
The Big Long
A new generation of investors is betting on America’s housing market
Dec 1st 2012 | from the print edition
THOSE feeling nostalgic for the boom before 2007 will have been heartened this week by headlines about Lehman Brothers selling a portfolio of American apartments for $6.5 billion. Lehman Brothers? No, the investment bank felled by the mortgage miasma is not rising from the dead: its administrators are merely flogging its remaining assets to repay creditors. But the sale shows that American housing, once so toxic it made the global economy choke, is once again attractive to investors. Hedge funds and private-equity firms, so often the villains, may be helping a housing revival.
America’s residential sector was once the preserve of “mom-and-pop” investors or local developers. The role of hedge funds became apparent only when those who bet massively against the housing market—“The Big Short”, as it was later termed—made billions while their rivals floundered. By gambling that subprime mortgages, extended to borrowers with no plausible means of repaying them, would poison the financial system, John Paulson personally pocketed $3 billion after his hedge fund skyrocketed.
The Big Long is now slowly taking shape. House prices have stabilised since their 2009 trough, and have even made small but steady gains in recent months. Investors convinced that a full-blown housing recovery is under way—a big “if”—are looking for ways to profit from it.
The most predictable of these is to invest in mortgages, or the very same residential mortgage-backed securities that were so avidly shorted in the run-up to the crisis. It is a deep pool: the $10 trillion of home loans outstanding is second only to equities as an asset class. Over half of these mortgages are tacitly guaranteed by the government, turning them into something akin to Treasury bonds. But packaged in tax-efficient structures to which large dollops of debt are added, these can kick yields up to the 10% range: not bad in a low-interest environment.
The risk is that even a small rise in interest rates will wipe out all the value. “You really have to believe interest rates are going to stay low for the foreseeable future,” says Gregory Perdon of Arbuthnot Latham, a bank.
Mortgages not guaranteed by the government, known as “non-agency”, are far more volatile and thus more appealing to return-hungry investors. Their price is closely correlated to that of the houses which underpin their value. Repayments are also higher when house prices are buoyant: if the house is worth less than the mortgage, the owner may simply walk away. Picking up those mortgages at rock-bottom prices has delivered returns of 30% or more for savvy hedge funds this year.
The other, and more intriguing, way of betting on rising house prices is to buy the houses themselves. KKR, Colony Capital and Blackstone are among those amassing large portfolios of homes, mostly buying from banks’ foreclosure auctions. Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, an investment bank, estimates that around $6-8 billion is being lined up to invest in single-family homes, the most appealing part of the market.
In practice, this is a fiddly process that involves finding, buying and managing thousands of homes scattered around the country. This is not easily done from a skyscraper in Manhattan. A property-management company is helping Blackstone buy some 100 houses a day in selected markets. Such is the pace of its investing that its agents do not even step inside all the properties it buys. Auctions of foreclosed properties can run to several thousand homes per month for a large city, often selling at half their 2006 peak price.
The plan is to fix up the houses and rent them, generating yields of around 7%. Jonathan Gray, the head of real estate at Blackstone, says that part of the investment case is that house-price increases will create fat capital gains. This has already happened in Phoenix, Arizona, the best recent performer of the 20 cities tracked by the Case-Shiller index of house prices (see chart). This may spoil Blackstone’s appetite for more than the $1.5 billion of houses it has already gobbled up. Others have already scaled back, disappointed by the returns.
Still, fully 20% of all home sales in October were to purchasers classified as investors, according to the National Association of Realtors. Rents as a proportion of house prices are at their highest for a decade. Oliver Chang, a former Morgan Stanley housing analyst now looking to buy $1 billion in single-family homes, says residential prices do not even need to go up for the trade to be profitable, as long as the houses are selected properly and value-adding repairs are carried out.
There may be even simpler ways to bet on bricks and mortar. Warren Buffett, an investor, recently bought a chain of estate agents. (He already owns a brick company.) Shares in home builders and Home Depot, a do-it-yourself store, are up sharply. Mr Paulson himself is buying development land in hard-hit markets.
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Who is it again who is buying U.S. equities?
When the Plunge Protection Team is actively supporting stock prices, why are private investors even needed to keep the market stabilized?
You’d think the writer of the following Buttonwood column never heard of the “buyer of last resort” concept.
Buttonwood
Desperately seeking investors
If pension funds do not buy equities, who will?
Dec 1st 2012 | from the print edition
THERE is always sadness when a long-lasting marriage falls apart. The close relationship between pension funds and equities, formed in the late 1950s, is heading for the divorce courts.
Figures from the Pension Protection Fund, an industry insurance scheme, show that British defined-benefit (or final-salary) schemes had 43.2% of their portfolios in bonds and just 38.5% in equities. As recently as 2007, the funds had an equity weighting that was double the size of their bond holdings (see chart).
In part this is down to the disappointing performance of equities since the dotcom bubble burst in 2000. But regulators have also encouraged funds to buy bonds, because pensions are a debt-like liability. In accounting terms, future pension liabilities are discounted using a corporate bond yield so that a higher bond weighting reduces the volatility of a scheme’s funding ratio. In addition, as final-salary schemes have closed to new members, they have become more “mature”; their membership has increasingly been dominated by retirees rather than current workers. This too has encouraged a higher bond allocation.
So the high bond weighting is not really a gamble on future returns, unlike the 81% equity weighting held by pension funds in 1993. It reflects a changing attitude to risk management. A similar shift has occurred in the portfolios of insurance companies, where regulations have encouraged a larger bond holding. All this is highly convenient for governments, which have a lot of bonds to sell.
This portfolio shift has already had profound consequences. The great insight of George Ross Goobey, the Imperial Tobacco fund manager who advocated a switch into equities in the 1950s, was that equities were a natural fit for pension funds. Stockmarkets might be volatile in the short term but over the long term, they should offer a higher return than bonds because of the link to profits growth. With their long-term horizon, pension schemes could take advantage of the “risk premium” paid to equity investors. Insurance companies reasoned along the same lines.
As a result of this process, the corporate sector gained a stable shareholder base, one that could usually be relied on to support fund-raisings and acquisitions. Where companies ignored shareholders’ wishes, the institutions also used their power to lobby for change; chief executives did not usually want to offend the likes of Scottish Widows and Prudential.
But share registers are now dominated by mutual-fund managers, hedge funds and other investors with a shorter time horizon. Such investors are more interested in seeing cash returned in the form of buy-backs than they are in seeing long-term investment plans. The stockmarket is barely used these days as a vehicle for raising capital; instead, companies are taking advantage of low (and tax-subsidised) interest rates to raise funds in the bond market.
Once the dream of every small businessman was to have a stockmarket listing. But these days fast-growing small firms hope to be snapped up by a large company with lots of cash. Quoted firms are happy to swap their listing for the embrace of private-equity groups, where they can operate out of the public eye.
So who can replace the pension funds as a source of equity capital? Private investors have lost enthusiasm for equities after suffering two bear markets in the past 12 years.
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