Bits Bucket for December 25, 2012
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here. And check out Chomp, Chomp, Chomp by a regular poster!
I guess a lot of the folks who lost their homes are back in the housing market creating bidding wars again.
merry xmas to all!
xmas sukkks where is my rent rebates….i feel like a 3rd class citizen in my own country, for being a renter….Bah Humbug!
Happening in DC area at least. Many bidding wars with prices going up to insane levels again. A rundown TH in North Potomac is $400K and Bethesda etc would be doule that price. Same in NoVa.
Happy Yule dude.
And yet there is a house on my block which is “only” $15K or so overpriced, and it’s been on the market for almost a year. If there were bidding wars, then this should have sold by now. Maybe there’s a huge problem with it.
These bidding wars are only serving to firm up the 2010-2011 prices, 40-50% off 2006 peak, as the new normal floor. When current round of bidders run out money, the “crash” may only fall back to 2010 prices, which will be seen as a deal.
And when they fall back to the real floor at 1990s levels and continue sinking from there, your tales of woe will grow louder.
Merry Christmas, honeypot.
Don’t be harsh. Christmas is a day for dreamy fantasies, and sugar plums. Merry Christmas!
And a 2010 floor is a doozey!
The denial is hilarious too.
“And a 2010 floor is a doozey!”
Hmm… I installed my floor in 2010 and it is indeed a doozy. Click together hardwood - thus no nails - and I installed a heated pad under my desk area.
So I’m posting here with toasty toes wishing all of y’all a Merry Christmas!
One of my co-workers bought a 4 bedroom on half an acre in Bethesda for around $625K not all that long ago. And not “almost Silver Spring” Bethesda. He is in “almost Chevy Chase” Bethesda.
Congratulations on not throwing yourself under the train in 2012.
I’m curious what happens when some of these people inevitably lose their jobs.
Gov workers generally don’t lose their jobs. They spread the wealth with furloughs. But if I were a contractor I’d be nervous.
If I had recently bought in an area with lots of govt contractors, I’d be nervous.
My area of town isn’t generally known for masses of contractors, at least not the type that are easily cut: stuff like IT or office supplies, not F-35s. In Northern Virginia, where the defense contractors hang out, houses are already 1/3 higher than where I am. Even a sequester crash would only bring them down to MoCo prices. Meanwhile, each month I pack away a little bit of principal.
“If I had recently bought in an area with lots of govt contractors, I’d be nervous.”
Like Huntsville, AL?
“Meanwhile, each month I pack away a little bit of principal.”
And a big fat payment/loss to interest and depreciation.
How can you tell whether it’s the FHA-funded former foreclosure victims, hedge funds, or the all-cash Canadian or Chinese investors creating the bidding wars?
I suppose it is possible that all four of these groups, plus a few others, are involved in the bubble reflation effort.
The most dangerous is the Chinese investor.
Why?
Buckets of money and boxes of stupid.
“Buckets of money and boxes of stupid.”
Aren’t those exactly the traits you would like current real estate investors to possess in order to provide for future affordability improvements?
I am not interested in the Shanghai-style bubble, and subsequent collateral damage, which precedes such “affordability improvements.”
Aren’t those exactly the traits you would like current real estate investors to possess in order to provide for future affordability improvements?
Nope. Those traits certainly add liquidity (meaning transactions) to aid in price discovery. But at the same time, they also serve to prop up current nonsensical pricing.
Predictions:
1) Your child’s future boss will be a Chinese-American.
2) The first Chinese-American president will be elected over the course of the next century.
Chinese Capitalists Help Fuel Housing Rebound
The real estate market is booming again in Silicon Valley
By Suzanne Saunders Shaw | Thursday, Dec 20, 2012 | Updated 1:28 PM PST
The Silicon Valley is now leading the nation in its long-awaited housing recovery, according to veteran Bay Area real estate agents.
“We’re at that leading edge, ” said Suzanne Yost, president of the Silicon Valley Association of Realtors.
Many cities, in fact, are showing double-digit gains in year over year sales prices. In San Jose, the median cost of a single family home is now $582,000, up 22 percent over November of last year. And in Palo Alto, which boasts some of the region’s best performing schools, high demand has pushed the median sales price of a home to $1,684,000.
What surprises buyers, sellers, and even seasoned real estate agents in parts of the Bay Area is the number of homes receiving multiple offers that are non-contingent and all-cash.
Certainly, the initial public stock offerings of such Silicon Valley luminaries as LinkedIn, Facebook and Groupon have helped spur the region’s resurgence in housing. But there’s another increasingly significant group of buyers who are fueling the frenzy. Numerous agents reference the impact of Chinese investors, both foreign nationals and immigrants.
“Just in the last year, we’ve seen a doubling of buyers coming directly from China and they’re pretty much all-cash buyers, usually here for just one week,” said Ken DeLeon, broker and founder of Palo Alto’s DeLeon Realty.
Nationally, Canada remains the largest group of foreign investors in U.S. real estate. But there is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest that the Silicon Valley is bucking the national trend.
“Amazingly, within Palo Alto, with its great schools,” DeLeon postulated, “70 percent of the buyers are now Chinese, either American-born Chinese, or coming directly from China. It’s staggering.”
…
“The first Chinese-American president will be elected over the course of the next century.”
Prediction: “America” as the current entity will cease to exist sometime during the next century.
A better nation or nations will arise.
Hasn’t this been occurring on a continuous basis since 1776? At what discrete point in time will we realize your prediction came to pass?
I’m referring to the USA as a country, or governmental entity.
Which means there will never be a “Chinese-American” president of anything called “America” or the USA.
Save yo’ confederate money, boys, the South gonna rise again!
I just love the irony of the Chinese taking the money they’ve made from being a country with no real environmental regulation, worker safety laws, or social safety nets, etc, and then bringing it all back to us because we do have those things, and thus we’re a safer, more pleasant place to live and raise a family.
I was thinking the same thing. Foul the nest, move to another nest.
Next up: Foul another nest.
Lol, look at it this way: the Republicans will get their wish. No more welfare state.
Chinese = smart capitalists!
Why do they vote demmercrat, then?
“Why do they vote demmercrat, then?”
Makes no meaningful difference?
Sigh, yes, you’re right.
Because America never came to world prominence as a country with no real environmental regulation, worker safety laws, or social safety nets, etc., and no American oligarch would DREAM of offshoring the family fortune today
As PRC matures, so will the regulation of its internal welfare.
“As PRC matures, so will the regulation of its internal welfare.”
ROTFLMAO!
I agree with Allena; I think we’ve seen a few beginning sparks of this already in worker strikes. Eventually, the Chinese will demand better…
“I just love the irony of the Chinese taking the money they’ve made from being a country with no real environmental regulation, worker safety laws, or social safety nets, etc, and then bringing it all back to us because we do have those things, and thus we’re a safer, more pleasant place to live and raise a family.”
So why do you and your buddies want to bring statist communism to this country?
WHO sent our jobs to a communist country?
2) The first Chinese-American president will be elected over the course of the next century.
Hmmm … The USA will definitely be more ‘chocolate’ colored by then. The question is, will the Hispanic majority vote for a Chinese American in the year 2100?
“American-born Chinese”
Natural born Americans are called Americans.
“Natural born Americans are called Americans.”
+1 And real Americans are called native Indians.
Natural born Americans are called Americans.
When their mothers fly into the country on a tourist visa for a couple of months, stay at a place that caters to fly-in Chinese mothers seeking passports for their children, and don’t really see any of the country, don’t speak more than a few words of English, and then fly home, with a plan of sending the kids back 15-20yrs later, I can’t help but think there should be a distinction in naming them.
American-born Chinese is probably pretty accurate for some.
When their mothers fly into the country on a tourist visa for a couple of months, stay at a place that caters to fly-in Chinese mothers seeking passports for their children…
Yeah, but you gotta figure that skews towards the higher IQs. So it’s probably a good thing.
So it’s probably a good thing.
Only if they eventually contribute something to society here…
Only if they eventually contribute something to society here…
Why wouldn’t they?
Why wouldn’t they?
It sounded like they were planning ahead for attending college here (and probably also for paying in-state tuition).
But were they planning to actually live here beyond that? That wasn’t clear to me.
GLOBAL REAL ESTATE BUBBLE SCHEDULED TO CONTINUE INTO 2013
29 November 2012
U.S. identified as most attractive region for global real estate investment
The most desirable region for heightened global investment in real estate in the coming year will be the United States, followed by Asia and Western Europe, in particular London, Paris and several of the major cities in Germany; according to the results of the Global Investor Sentiment Survey published by Colliers International.
The survey respondents included major institutional and private investors representing a broad cross section of property investors globally, who were asked for their outlook at the global and regional level for the coming 12 months and beyond. With nearly 500 responses from the most active real estate investors from the US, Canada, Latin America, Asia Pacific, Europe and the Middle East; the results highlight a number of key indicators suggesting improved investor sentiment, such as ambitious expansion plans through 2013 and migration of funds for offshore investment opportunities. A lack of quality stock and availability of finance are the primary obstacles to expansion plans.
…
Madness. I guess the mass real estate speculation will never end.
If you look at the history of this country, it never ended.
What happens when all global real estate markets have become unaffordable for citizens, and they run out of greater fools? The fact that mankind has turned human shelter into an investment vehicle is sickening beyond words.
Merry Christmas HBB
Apple - iPad mini - TV Ads - I’ll Be Home - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWyZUszyJHg - 145k -
Alpine squad task force at Monarch Mountain yesterday:
http://www.picpaste.com/2012-12-24_10-09-32_516-GQhofsiO.jpg
http://www.picpaste.com/2012-12-24_10-20-38_750-1DZdSXsp.jpg
http://www.picpaste.com/2012-12-24_12-42-23_168-7FCrkEls.jpg
Nice! I worked yesterday. Very deserted from the start. By 4pm there were only three or four of us in our three story building.
I decided to stay home and hang out with family. I helped out our landlords by replacing a door lock set, barbecued some chicken to save my wife the trouble of preparing dinner, worked out, shopped, and did a little telecommuting to keep the ever-growing pile of work-related duties at bay.
“I worked yesterday. Very deserted from the start.”
Ditto. Bringing a new IBM file server on-line tomorrow following several days of copying terabytes of data. Also got some new Cisco Catalyst switches with throttling management so a user dragging a folder of GIS imagery from the server to the workstation won’t saturate the office network. Fingers crossed!
With housing demand fallen to1997 levels and sinking, it’s a very Merry Christmas.
If taxes go up then disposable income will go down unless more income is earned. But if more income is earned then more taxes will end up being paid - especially if the added income shoves one into a higher tax bracket.
So, what is one to do? One answer: Keep expenses down. If one’s expenses are kept down then he will not need to earn the added income. Not needing to earn the added income translates into not paying the added taxes.
A penny saved is three pennies earned. Merry Christmas!
For the ones who plan ahead, more income was earned in 2012 than in many years. Businesses sold for capital gains, long term capital gains realized on stocks, stock funds, bond funds, and other financial strategic moves made.
For me it was selling a $hitload of shares, converting the last of my traditional IRAs to Roths and one final move later this week to convert a good mutual fund into a better tax-managed mutual fund. It’s preparing for the future.
Other smart moves (finally) are not about taxes but merging assets into fewer financial firms. I said goodbye to Fidelity after being with them 18 years. I am getting out of a popular brokerage firm that has $10.99 trades and moving the proceeds into my other one that has $7 trades on amounts above $50,000. Next year at some point I’m going to move a Roth from an insurance company that for the third time ignored my request for rebalancing, and move into my better financial planning firm’s Roth where I can do my own rebalancing.
The other thing I did was take out my precious metals from bank safe deposit boxes. I have a gut feeling Obama is going to order confiscation of gold. I put my precious metals safely out of the government’s thieving paws.
I learned a lot from this blog on investing, particularly from Combotechie for his deflation theory which inspired me to build up more cash and t-bills (even though I’m also bullish on the alternative currency gold) and I thank Cantankerous for the article postings which gave me a lot of useful information. Above all, I thank Ben Jones for his posts and threads which get us all started.
Happy Holidays!
I’m making a small year-end investment tomorrow in an inflation hedge, namely an old German-made violin bow. Also providing a neighbor and fellow musician the holiday gift of cash. It’s a win-win!
nice move!
One colleague of mine is a wine collector and started at this in his early 20s (he came from a monied background, so he was educated about wines in the early 1980s). Some wines he bought for $30 a bottle, he’s been selling at $400. He has a few $1,000 ones. There are wine futures sites and brokers. He sells his through a broker. He ships his wines to them when he has a buyer. the broker verifies wine pedigree (or whatchamacallit) and the sale is made.
Other people do that with cars.
It’s a hobby for sure. But you have to have the patience to keep the wine for 20 years or more.
But you have to have the patience to keep the wine for 20 years or more.
Very hard to move from apartment to apartment.
You store the wine not in your apartment but in wine cellars that you rent at storage facilities. I have two colleagues who do exactly that. You do not have to stay in the same city where your wine is. The places are temperature-controlled. One where I was at last week has a wine tasting room, a classy decor, with a nice table and chair set for a group of friends to enjoy. This could be worth it to some people.
The wealthier colleague who does this hasn’t really calculated how much profit he’s made. He sells for a hobby. The price to rent is probably steep at the start, and if you keep adding wines to the space. But at the proper aging you start selling and you educate your kids on the aspects of wine. My colleague has a sixteen year old son and he’s going to do that.
” Some wines he bought for $30 a bottle, he’s been selling at $400.”
Wow - a wine bubble - who knew?
Me, I prefer to drink the bubbly wine. Cheers, y’all.
I share an office with the monied guy. I’m learning a few things. Meanwhile I mostly drink $2 chuck because of my frugality but I shop at Total wine once every 2 weeks and get 3 bottles of wine: Two of them Ariel dealcoholized Merlot - if available - and one a Bordeaux.
Chateau Gloria Saint Julien Domaines Martin 2010 was in my glass tonight, being a special night. It’s not really at its best for another ten years or so, I hear. But WTF? It tasted very good anyway. I do not have a wine storage unit.
Two of them Ariel dealcoholized
Bill, you’re robbing yourself of the health benefits of the alcohol… Do the research: there is growing benefits of health benefits from low levels of consumption, regardless of the type of alcohol consumed (wine,beer,mixed drinks).
1 to 2 drinks for a man, up to 1 drink for a woman. On nights I have $2 chuck it’s one drink of alcohol. On night I have Bordeaux, it’s 2. Then there are time I only want beer. One 12 oz.
BiLA, I’m not sure why you trust the gov’t to keep hands off of IRAs, 401ks, etc.
Maybe it’s because your time horizon is different than mine, but I do not trust the gov’t enough to lock up my money for the next 35-50 yrs. and put it where the gov’t can easily see what’s there.
I think if you’re going to hit 65 in the next 10 yrs maybe you are OK. But the way I see it is, IRAs, 401ks, college savings accounts, etc are for suckers. There are completely legal ways to move money around in such a way to get taxes under 20%, even for those of us in the top 1- 2% of earners. The people I know who really have money are not the law firm partners I work with, but rather people who spent a life time f***ing the system by acquiring assets that depreciate/lose money on paper or throw off a lot of cash. Sometimes a combination of all of those.
I don’t trust the government to keep hands off of Roth’s IRAs, or 401ks. No. But I diversify. Most of my net worth is outside tax deferred plans.
As for Roths, you can get your entire conversion back in five years with no 10% penalty and not taxed. The gains are a different story. In slightly under six years I will be 59 and a half. The question is if the congCrooks will vote to confiscate Roths in 2018? I doubt it.
CongCrooks are whimsical and can go either way, but some critics about Roths and IRAs forget about how much of a death grip people have on these retirement plans and how angry such people will be if the congCrooks diddle with them.
Diversification is key. Diversify among your tax avoidance strateegies.
“…congCrooks…”
Isn’t ‘ConCrooks’ the proper spelling?
@ Grizzly, I guess if 250k is barely 6 figures, so be it. We live as if we make 50k/yr, though. That’s what my wife was accustomed to when she was starting out in teaching and it’s about what I made while working after college (I went to law school in evenings, after the 1L year). Both of our parents also give us approx 10k/yr tax free as a gift and we’ll both be inhereting at whatever point. They have a lot, but I’m not sure how much. And I have 3 siblings so mine will be divided (wife is an only child).
It is possible to build cash flowing assets, you just have to start off living well below what you can afford. It was hard the first few years getting my wife (then girlfriend) to do this but in the past year she’s really caught on and even one-upped me in some respects.
There is no false sense of being a “Rockefeller”–it sets up a bulls*** false dichotomy to say that just because someone wants to build assets they’ve failed because they don’t literally have what Rockefeller or Mittens has.
The truth is, if you live on a small-ish % of your income, you should expect to be “well off” on your own terms. I’ve talked about my dad never making more than probably 250k in a year but amassing local businesses which flow pretty nicely. He still drives his cars at least 10 yrs, eats leftovers at his desk for lunch, and rarely buys anything for himself. It’s a mindset. When he does buy things, he buys for quality–not the typical American who lives to shop and is constantly buying tacky, low-quality crap. He’s also able to go to Greece with my mom and in laws for a couple months a year now that he’s older. He never really has to worry about money and that is one of the biggest virtues–not the fact you can consume like a “Rockefeller”.
When you think “small business”, you should instantly think “tax write offs”. Because if a small business doesn’t largely or primarily to take advantage of legal money laundering and the welfare state then I would argue they are doing it wrong.
Members of Congress Among Least Trusted Professionals, Poll Shows
By Anugrah Kumar , Christian Post Contributor
December 4, 2012|7:09 am
A new Gallup survey shows that only one in 10 Americans rates the honesty and ethical standards of members of Congress as “very high” or “high,” a slightly better rating than that of car salespeople who hit the bottom of the list of 22 professions.
Asked to rate the honesty and ethical standards of members of Congress, 54 percent of Americans said lawmakers on Capitol Hill have low or very low ethical standards, with only 10 percent saying the elected officials have high or very high standards, according to a new Gallup survey released Monday.
The lawmaking body is second lowest on a list of 22 professions measured – higher only than car salespeople who had 8 percent approval rating. What’s more, members of Congress have the dubious distinction of having the largest “very low” or “low” rating of any profession tested this year – 54 percent, though this is higher than car salespeople with 49 percent.
Members of Congress have had consistently low approval rating for more than three and a half decades, Gallup notes. The high point was in November 2001, after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, when one-fourth of Americans rated their honesty and ethical standards as very high or high. Last year’s 7 percent honesty rating for Congressmen and Congresswomen was the lowest on record.
The results from Gallup’s Nov. 26-29 update of the perceived honesty and ethical standards of professions come as Congress remains involved in protracted negotiations over the pending “fiscal cliff” that could disrupt the nation’s economy if not addressed by Jan. 1.
…
Wow, joesmith, you’re very defensive. My Rockefeller was in response to your comment here, and I was in agreement with you:
“…it’s pretty clear that that even 200k+ wage slaves are a class below the “boot strapping” “job creators” who own assets and thus can truly exploit the tax code.”
For young people like you, yes I recommend investing in stocks outside the tax deferred plans. Capital gain taxes will probably always be less than your ordinary income tax. But they are now, so that’s a good argument to invest in stocks mostly outside tax deferral. But in any case and no matter how close or far from retirement you should invest in a 401k just to get the matching contributions.
Bill, I’m not that interested in stocks/bonds because I’d still have to pay taxes on cap gains (probably a normal/non-preferred rate). In addition, I can’t use the paper assets nearly as much to guard against taxes. Our tax code is such a joke that an aggressive person can hide all their profits and it’s legal. In fact, it’s standard operating procedure for any “private” “We did build this” “invisible hand of the free market” “bootstrapping” enterprise out there. Even corporations that have billion dollar revenues can pay little or no corporate income tax. It’s especially funny when these businesses do this while largely servicing the government (e.g. General Dynamics, L-3, Lockheed, GE, Boeing, etc.).
I don’t think you were around the day I discussed my own view on earned income being for suckers. Over time I’ve noticed that everything my parents and my wife’s family have is a result of owning simple, local, hands-off cash-generating assets. The “thuggernment”, as you say, can’t stop a carry-out owner from taking in several thousand in cash a week yet paying almost no tax (except sales tax) because they can’t prove what the expenses were, what depreciation was, etc. Or, to say it better, the gov’t can’t easily disprove what your accountant and lawyer say. The key is to document everything so it is legal… save receipts, etc. The result is that “the business” is a great vehicle to avoid taxes.
I don’t think my father or father in law ever put more into 401ks than whatever the company will match. And they did it to get the match only, not with any expectation of 10% annual returns.
We (wife and I) still make our money as wage slaves. Even though it’s a good amount, whenever we go to events, it’s pretty clear that that even 200k+ wage slaves are a class below the “boot strapping” “job creators” who own assets and thus can truly exploit the tax code.
I always chuckle to myself when people making barely six figures act like they’re the second coming of Rockefeller. I know a few.
I guess I should admit that I also do use my 401k, but only up to my firm’s matching amount. However, beyond this I do not see the point of locking up money for 35 yrs or more. So much can happen in that time–the USD may not be the dominant currency, inflation, deflation, operation twist part 45, QE-97, etc.
Meanwhile, if housing ever does really crash (crater!!!), I’d like to have a pile sitting around to scoop up a retreat on the eastern shore of maryland or delaware for 80% off
E.g. of small business using the welfare state… my parents have a carry-out restaurant in Dundalk, MD. It brings in a couple thousand bucks on a good weekend day. They own the entire strip mall, so they don’t pay any rent on the place or on the parking lot. The ingredients are all very cheap and bought in bulk (they have a huge basement on site for storage). They pay no more than $10/hr. to any of the workers (so obviously all the workers all basically ALL on food stamps, Medicaid, etc). Yet, the workers are generally pretty lawyer because they pay $1-2/hr above McD’s and most of these people live in the neighborhood.
That one carry out brings in more than my dad made in his best yr as a nuc engineer. By far the most money they spend on anything is a) lawyer and b) accountant. Oh, and c) IT guy to install security equipment and a computer program to monitor inventory, register, etc. Each of those expenses have big pay offs–a couple thousand to the accountant for advice, he finds ways to save $10k+, etc.
The whole this is classic rent-seeking. My parents bought the strip mall when I was a wee lad. The guy who owned it just wanted out and sold for far cheaper than he should’ve (Baltimore County was booming in the 80s/90s and now has a higher pop than Baltimore City).
Since then they got a 7 day liquor license and became a lottery ticket seller… someone won a pretty large size jackpot in ‘11 and my parents got a cut for selling the ticket (thanks MD Lottery).
Right now they are hoping the Ravens make a long playoff run like last year–means a couple extra thousand. Proles love football.
If there are small businesses out there that aren’t using the welfare state and doing rent-seeking, then they are suckers.
you must like the walmart Waltons and their “keep their employees on welfare” while they get richer motto.
Seems to be the same game….
Someday not paying a living wage while building their own estate seems greedy if you are already rich..it takes a server to make the business work. But they must be in a different class of humans who don’t deserve financial independence; not being rich and not making enough to live on even though they work as much as they can.
Is he cutting everyone’s hours to avoid providing health benefits for his employees? That is what is happening around here. Les Schwab is a local tire producer here who just laid off all his production staff to use temps instead. Not what Les would have wanted but he is dead and the kids sure don’t want to provide Obamacare to their workers so they work around it. Same as all the other retailers cutting hours to avoid paying into health benefits. Makes the workers need multiple jobs plus govt bennies to scrape by.
They must sure appreciate slaving away eating foodstamp benefits and other entitlements they would rather not rely on(being employed but needing welfare takes a bit of pride swallowing) Could not your dad provide them a living wage and feel better about himself; or would that make him impoverished too?
Do you look down on the servers etc that are forced to take govt bennies in order to make your family richer?
Or are they just suckers who sacrifice their worthless lives watching football and consuming pre packaged carbs?
So the rich and the poor are both dependent on the welfare state. The rich for its wants and the poor for its needs.
It is good to know that your dad needs welfare to taste the real money in life just as much I need it to survive; being a lower class wage slave myself (substitute teacher plus my wife works two service jobs).
Makes the stigma slightly less knowing the rich don’t wish to eliminate the programs that feed us and provide health care to our kids. we still pay for our adult coverage for now. But with $7500 deductibles foisted upon us this year not for much longer, unless Obamacare magically saves the day for the underinsured/overcharged people paying for private policies but getting little out of them.
“My wife works in your dad’s mini-mall!”(actually we live in OR, but the jist is the same)
“…college savings accounts…”
It seems like a mistake to lump these in with IRAs and all the other investment vehicles you mentioned. Unless the rules change, IRAs, 401(K)s etc make sense for most who have the ability to save.
By contrast, college savings accounts have always been and remain to be for suckers.
By contrast, college savings accounts have always been and remain to be for suckers.
Why, PB? I haven’t looked closely at these accounts, as I have no kids yet. But I have friends who seem pretty savvy and I believe they are using the WA-state version.
What makes them a sucker’s bet?
“Why, PB?”
Why would you want to lock up your hard-earned money into an investment with so many strings attached to how the money is spent?
The other thing to think about: What kind of personal investment vehicles might count against your child’s financial aid eligibility?
Financial aid basics
Financial Aid and Your Savings
[Excerpted from Savingforcollege.com’s Family Guide to College Savings]
In order to determine the investment mix that offers the most favorable impact on your child’s federal financial aid eligibility, let’s first look at how the formula for computing EFC works. The formula counts the following financial resources as being available to pay college expenses:
* 20% of a student’s assets (money, investments, business interests, and real estate)
* 50% of a student’s income (after certain allowances)
* 2.6%- 5.6% of a parent’s assets (money, investments, certain business interests, and real estate, based on a sliding income scale and after certain allowances)
* 22%-47% of a parent’s income (based on a sliding income scale and after certain allowances)
Now let’s see how specific types of assets affect the aid formula:
* A good type of asset to own when applying for financial aid is a retirement account such as an IRA or 401(k). These qualified retirement accounts, whether owned by you or by your child, are not counted at all in determining EFC for purposes of federal financial aid. Be careful, however, about taking money out of your IRA (or any retirement account) to pay for college. Though the tax law now permits penalty-free withdrawals from a traditional or Roth IRA to pay for qualified college costs, doing so could jeopardize financial aid in the following year. The entire withdrawal, principal and earnings, counts as income on the following year’s aid application.
* The equity in your primary home, a family-owned business, insurance policies, and annuities are also excluded from your assets when determining EFC.
* Assets that belong to the student result in a greater reduction in financial aid. UGMA/UTMA accounts are counted as the student’s asset. In addition, they may increase the student’s included income to the extent that interest, dividends, or capital gains are reported on the student’s income tax return.
* Often the income tax benefit of setting aside investment assets in a child’s name is more or less offset by the reduction in the child’s financial aid package.
* 529 plans and Coverdell ESAs may be two of the better options to save for college without jeopardizing financial aid. Congress has bestowed these investments with special advantages for aid-eligibility purposes.
* If a parent owns the 529 account or ESA, up to 5.6% of the value is included in EFC as a parent asset. If grandparents own the account, none of the value is included.
* Starting with the 2009-10 school year, a 529 account or ESA owned by a dependent student, or by a custodian for the student, is to be reported on the FAFSA as a parental asset.
…
Suppose you considered these two options:
1) Max out your contributions to IRAs, 401(K)s or whatever other type of personal tax-deferred retirement plans to which you are allowed to contribute.
2) Split the same amount of contributions between the above retirement plans and a Section 529 college savings plan.
Which of these approaches would offer you the greatest amount of financial flexibility with how your savings are spent coupled with the least penalty against financial aid eligibility?
If you are sufficiently wealthy or austere to both max out on personal tax-deferred retirement plan contributions and fund a Section 529 plan, perhaps the logical choice is to do both, but I generally get cold feet over any investment program which so narrowly restricts or otherwise penalizes the disposition of savings.
Why would you want to lock up your hard-earned money into an investment with so many strings attached to how the money is spent?
FWIU, some of those plans lock in today’s prices on credit-hours that might be significantly more expensive in the future… That’s the reasoning that I’ve heard anyway.
But I agree on the multitude of strings attached; in general, I prefer to keep my funds in places with fewer strings and more flexibility (for example, don’t get me started on the stupidity of gift-cards as opposed to giving cash).
Cash is fungible; various savings plans, not so much.
Interesting info on the financial aid angle; thanks for the info. When I was young and poor, I managed to establish myself as financially independent for 2yrs (thanks in significant part to attending a state-funded residential high school for my last two years). That was a real boon when it came time to fill out the FAFSA… My parents truly were flat-broke, though, and I truly was funding college myself, so I had no qualms about accurately reporting the information. Having to list them would have adversely affected my financial aid, and they truly weren’t in a position to contribute.
Which of these approaches would offer you the greatest amount of financial flexibility [...]
For the record, I’d much rather have the funds in the IRA/401k. I believe they allow some amount of withdrawal for education expenses (though I’m vague on the specifics), and would allow for a lot more flexibility in general. Plus, if I could fund educational expenses out of other sources, I’d rather leave the retirement funds alone until later in life.
“FWIU, some of those plans lock in today’s prices on credit-hours that might be significantly more expensive in the future… That’s the reasoning that I’ve heard anyway.”
I guess this could be important, given that like real estate, college education costs always go up?
I guess this could be important, given that like real estate, college education costs always go up?
I recognize that we might well be in an education bubble—there certainly do appear to be signs of one. But I also find myself wondering whether it will be another one of those bubbles that the Fed will support to infinity and beyond, or not.
“But I also find myself wondering whether it will be another one of those bubbles that the Fed will support to infinity and beyond, or not.”
I can’t imagine the Fed explicitly supporting higher education costs, as they have housing prices. The difference is that a critical mass of U.S. households benefit from the flow of subsidies into home equity wealth gains which result from housing price stabilization measures. By contrast, who benefits from higher college costs, besides the relatively small membership of the HEIC*?
That said, college costs could get caught up in across the board price increases due to a general inflation.
* Higher Education Industrial Complex
by acquiring assets that depreciate/lose money on paper or throw off a lot of cash.
What kind of assets meet that description?
converting the last of my traditional IRAs to Roths
BiLA, I still think this is a remarkably-bad financial move. You’re choosing to pay high marginal rates during your top earnings years, when you could instead be paying the lower marginal rates on these income dollars during your lower-earnings retirement years.
Even if rates go up significantly, it strikes me as extremely unlikely that the bottom couple of brackets will be higher in the future than your current bracket is today.
Thanks but first note that approximately 39% of my tax deferred stuff is in Roths. {That excludes my Series I and EE savings bonds, which are in a third category of tax deferral. The principle is mine and not taxable. The income is tax free at the state level and tax free for education of a child. The income compounds and is deferred like a traditional 401k. Unlike a traditional 401k the investment is post tax.}
I especially like Roths for the potential that I can grab what i converted after 5 years of the conversion. That is a good thing in case conCrooks (thanks PB) changes the game eventually. Most of my Roths right now, I can grab back three years from this month.
Back to that 39%: It’s approximately 1/6 of my entire net worth, or 16.67% so we are talking about trivia here.
You also should not assume (in case conCrooks lays off my Roth for several decades) that I will tap into my Roth at 59 1/2. I’m not even thinking of retiring. I’m only thinking about changing my career at some point where I do not have to travel to a new city every year, but stay in one city. I will tap into my Roth after I deplete my 401k. and savings bonds.
My other investments are stocks and stock funds outside tax deferral. Ultra long term gains are taxed at 18% (held 5 years) with the January 2013 tax changes.
I also hold gold and silver as insurance against inflation.
In essence, very confortable with my asset allocation.
I agree that there are a couple of benefits to Roths; you mentioned one—the increased accessibility, in that you can withdraw after 5yrs—and hinted at another, the lack of a Required Minimum Distribution.
So I’m fine with contributing to a Roth, and may start to do so myself this year for the first time (my 401K allows for a Roth option, so I can contribute to it after maxing the tax-deferred option).
But if the funds for a Roth are going to come from Traditional IRA, then the only way I would consider converting myself would be if I were having a low-income year for some reason (job gap, sabbatical, layoff, retirement, etc).
Otherwise, I firmly believe that choosing to pay additional taxes in your top earnings years, at your top marginal rate, in order to avoid them in later years is an expensive choice—e.g. a financial mistake.
I paid the conversion tax with money outside my traditional IRA. I would not have done the conversion otherwise. Very important point.
In fact, I moved $100,000 from a traditional IRA earlier this year to my traditional 401k . It was a rollover IRA from another 401k. I did not want the amount included on my taxes for this year when I converted my non-deductible traditional IRA of $13,000. This is called a “backdoor Roth.” Google it. Converting to a Roth is not as easy as one thinks.
I did a Roth conversion back in the 1990s when I was in grad school and had very low income. This enabled me to do the conversion “tax free”…
This enabled me to do the conversion “tax free”…
Converting “tax free” due to a low-tax year (such as going back to school): brilliant, PB.
Bill, if you were converting only post-tax traditional IRA dollars, then I take back when I said; I was referring to the tax-effects of pre-tax conversions. The after-tax traditional IRA conversion wouldn’t result in much taxable income anyway (e.g. the backdoor Roth strategy that you mentioned). But that’s only because after-tax traditional IRAs never made sense for anyone after the introduction of Roth IRAs.
I’m in good hands. Over half of my assets is not taxable by current law. Over 58% of my assets is outside tax deferral. No worries from here.
I’m in good hands. Over half of my assets is not taxable by current law. Over 58% of my assets is outside tax deferral. No worries from here.
Assuming the current status quo stays as is. If we have the upheaval you’re always yammering about, then all bets are off, eh? What’s the ‘tax’ a border guard charges for you to leave a failing country with your gold? 50%? 75%? 95%? The tax for being an atheist in Iraq was death, if the wrong guys stopped you at their checkpoint.
You’re beholden to the status quo more than you like to believe, BiLA.
“No worries, here.” Assuming the adults stay in power.
You’re beholden to the status quo
And who isn’t?
“And who isn’t?”
By his own choices and actions, Paul Gauguin wasn’t.
“I have a gut feeling Obama is going to order confiscation of gold.”
You are stupider than I thought.
Nice to wake up to a newly renovated (90% finished) paid for home and feel blessed.
Unloading a lot of stuff and oversized furniture (big house stuff). Salvation Army will make $ off it.
Turned on our Conservatory Grand Player Piano this morning and enjoyed some Christmas tunes. Now, with the housing hunt behind us, I can resume lessons.
Merry Christmas and Happy Healthy New Year!
Now that you all have survived the Mayan calendar Armageddon, good luck at surviving your Christmas Day weather!
Snow, rain, tornadoes in Christmas Day forecast
Janet McConnaughey, Associated Press
10:27a.m. EST December 25, 2012
While snow is likely in parts of the U.S., forecasters warn some states could see tornadoes.
snow
(Photo: Abbey Oldham, AP)
Story Highlights
Twisters are possible in some Gulf Coast states
Severe weather could snarl holiday travel
A blizzard watch has been posted in Ind., Ky.
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Forecasts of blinding snow, sleet and freezing rain threatened to complicate Christmas Day travel around the nation’s midsection Tuesday as several Gulf Coast states braced for a chance of twisters, high winds and powerful thunderstorms.
A blizzard watch was posted for parts of Indiana and western Kentucky for storms expected to unfold Tuesday amid predictions of up to 4 to 7 inches of snow in coming hours. Much of Oklahoma and Arkansas braced under a winter storm warning of an early mix of rain and sleet forecast to eventually turn to snow.
Some mountainous areas of Arkansas’ Ozark Mountains could get up to 10 inches of snow amid warnings travel could become “very hazardous or impossible” in the northern tier of the state from near whiteout conditions, the National Weather Service said.
After dawn Tuesday, the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety said bridges, overpasses and highways in several counties were already becoming slick and hazardous. Also, Kathleen O’Shea with Oklahoma Gas and Electric said the utility was tracking the storm system to see where repair crews might be needed among nearly 800,000 customers in Oklahoma and western Arkansas.
Elsewhere, areas of east Texas and Louisiana braced for possible thunderstorms as forecasters eyed a developing storm front expected to spread across the Gulf Coast to the Florida Panhandle, raising the threat of any tornadoes.
Quarter-sized hail reported early Tuesday in western Louisiana was expected to be just the start of a severe weather threat on the Gulf Coast, said meteorologist Mike Efferson at the weather service office in Slidell, La. He told The Associated Press by phone on Tuesday that Lake Charles, La., was placed under a tornado warning and a tornado watch was in effect over a wider area of southeast and south-central Louisiana until 2 p.m. ET.
…
Are We Facing a Decade of Financial Repression?
Dec. 20 (Bloomberg) — In today’s “Single Best Chart,” Bloomberg’s Scarlet Fu displays how we may be in for a painless deleveraging process as bond yields are lagging U.S. debt-to-GDP. She speaks on Bloomberg Television’s “Bloomberg Surveillance.”
Near the end she says the suggestion is going into companies “with an inflation link,” emerging market currencies, emerging market companies as well.
mining companies, oil, consumer products, and so forth all have an inflation link. So does gold bullion.
Debt to GDP ratio going up means the debt is higher than normal versus the GDP.
All she’s saying is that inflation is on the way.
“All she’s saying is that inflation is on the way.”
Also something about her tone of voice suggested she was utterly clueless about the meaning of the words she was reading.
“…painless deleveraging process…”
In particular, she sounded as utterly clueless on reading those three words as I was on hearing them.
Here’s a little holiday reading for alpha-sloth and other Fed apologists who post on the HBB.
Welcome to the Era of ‘Ugly’ Inflation
Where everybody loses
by Charles Hugh Smith
Thursday, September 27, 2012, 7:33 PM
A year ago, in the wake of the then-announced additional monetary easing measures by the Federal Reserve (which since sent stock prices on a rocket ride for the next nine months), many of our readers feared a major decline in the dollar was imminent. To add some balance to our site content, we asked Peak Prosperity contributing editor Charles Hugh Smith to argue the case for a strengthening dollar. He graciously accepted, and in the year since writing Heresy and the US Dollar, America’s currency did indeed strengthen notably vs. its fiat counterparts. Now, after the Fed’s announcement of QE3 (plus), many of us are girding once again for dollar weakness. So we’ve invited Charles to once again play devil’s advocate.
The Siren Song of ‘Beautiful Deleveraging’
In a world of rising sovereign debts and an overleveraged, over-indebted private sector, history suggests there are only three possible ways out: gradual deleveraging, defaulting on the debt, or printing enough money to inflate away the debt.
Ray Dalio recently described the characteristics of a “beautiful deleveraging” in which equal doses of austerity, write-downs, and inflation gradually lighten the load of impaired debt. This might be called the Goldilocks Deleveraging, as the key feature of this “beautiful” solution is that each component is “not too hot, not too cold” – inflation is modest, write-downs of bad debt are gradual, and austerity is not too severe. Given enough time, the leverage and debt are worked off without requiring any structural change to the Status Quo.
Understandably, the Status Quo has embraced this solution for the appealing reason it doesn’t change the power structure at all. Everyone currently in charge remains in charge, and everyone who owns outsized wealth continues owning outsized wealth. Rather than falling onto the politically powerful “too big to fail” banking sector, the pain of deleveraging is spread over the entire economy. There is no such thing as painless deleveraging, so the “solution” is to distribute the pain over hundreds of millions of people. That’s what makes it “beautiful” to the Status Quo: It doesn’t cost them either their power or their wealth.
The Status Quo in Japan has pursued this strategy for 20 years, and the Status Quo in Europe and the U.S. have pursued it for the past four years, ever since the global financial system imploded in 2008.
Unsurprisingly, the conventional view is that it’s working “beautifully”. Housing has bottomed, stocks have doubled since their March 2009 lows, households are slowly deleveraging, inflation is modest, and growth is sluggish but steady. All we need to do, we’re told, is stay the course for a few more years, and the stage will be set for a return to the rapid growth of the bubble years.
Central Banks to the Rescue
The core mechanism of this “leave the Status Quo intact” solution is that central banks conjure money out of thin air (i.e., “print money”), which they use to then buy impaired bank debt (such as delinquent mortgages) and sovereign debt (such as the bonds of Spain, Italy and the U.S.)
This transfers impaired private-sector debt and sovereign debt to the central banks’ balance sheets, where they are safely sequestered from price discovery. The central banks keep these questionable assets on the books at full value, and the Status Quo is happy. The banks trade their risky impaired assets to the central bank for cash, which they can use to speculate or originate new loans, and governments can continue to run monumental deficits because the bonds they issue are purchased (i.e., “monetized”) by central banks.
Central bank balance sheets swell with phantom assets, but nobody cares, as the debt no longer burdens private banks and governments are free to borrow and spend.
It all seems too good to be true, and so skeptics ask: If this deleveraging is so ‘beautiful’, why are the developed economies sliding into recession? If this deleveraging has worked so well, why are governments still running unprecedented deficits even as hiring, production, and lending all weaken?
Skeptics of the official “happy story” see plentiful evidence that the beautiful deleveraging of central-bank monetization is simply papering over the structural rot at the heart of the financial/political Status Quo – the shadow banking system, the risk-laden derivatives trade, the “fraud-is-our-business-model” mortgage securitization industry, and so on.
Somebody Has to Pay the Price
Skeptics reviewing history find few examples of painless deleveraging and many examples where over-indebtedness and central bank money-printing lead to a stark choice: Either accept high inflation as a way of inflating debts away, or renounce sovereign debt and devalue the currency.
Neither “solution” is ideal nor beautiful. Inflating away debt by depreciating the currency (via money-printing) allows debtors to pay debt with “cheaper” money, but inflation savagely erodes financial wealth. If we earn $100,000 an hour, our $100,000 mortgage can be paid off with one hour’s labor, but our $100,000 in savings will only buy three gallons of gasoline – the same number of gallons an hour’s labor bought back when we earned $12 an hour. We can print money but not oil.
…
Dumb question of the day: Other than the stealth involved
and the regressive direction of this form of wealth redistribution, how does the Fed’s inflation-creation policy differ from the dreaded tax increases which Republican politicians are sworn to never accept?
how does the Fed’s inflation-creation policy differ from the dreaded tax increases which Republican politicians are sworn to never accept?
They haven’t sworn a pledge against inflation. Maybe Norquist should add that?
“Maybe Norquist should add that?”
Why would he? Unlike Joe6Pack, the 1% have many avenues to protect themselves against the inflation tax.
I frankly have no problem with continuing the policy that dates back to Ronald Reagan’s presidency and before, of letting the Fed’s inflation tax take care of what honest taxation does not, provided that (1) there is an open and accurate accounting for the inflation tax, and (2) its regressive wealth redistribution effects are fully and openly acknowledged.
Since the Fed has entered a New Era of Glasnost, perhaps they could do a little housekeeping to honestly account for their wealth redistribution activities?
Whatever, Chuck. When are we supposed to see 1987 prices in San Francisco again?
1987 prices have little to do with the fact that you overpaid by 200% for some dump in DC.
“…painless deleveraging process…”
Is the deleveraging process ever painless? Sounds like a contradiction in terms…
“Is the deleveraging process ever painless?”
Maybe that’s why the reporter sounded so flummoxed as she read those words?
“Is the deleveraging process ever painless?”
Just close your eyes and think of England.
Just close your eyes and think of England.
LOL…
“All she’s saying is that inflation is on the way.”
Inflation took a break? When did this happen?
I’m expecting great U.S. stock market investing opportunities in 2013, due to unresolved disagreement between Congress and the President on the federal budget. Happy New Year!
What will happen to stocks if we go over the cliff
By Stephen Gandel, senior editor
December 21, 2012: 1:58 PM ET
The market might have a good reason to be shrugging off the fiscal cliff.
FORTUNE — For months the predictions for what would happen if we go over the fiscal cliff have been bordering on horrific. The Congressional Budget Office says the chance of recession is 100%. Moody’s says it will be much harder for companies to issue debt. PIMCO’s CEO Mohamed El-Erian says our children are all but guaranteed to be worse off than us.
Based on that, it seems like going over the fiscal cliff would be an absolute disaster for stocks. Yet the market reaction has been mostly a shrug. Even Friday, with the news that Boehner and Obama look farther than ever from a deal with just days to go before the end of the year, the Dow Jones industrial average was down less than 200 points. Not great. But not really the type of market move you expect if we are headed for a recession. Even after that drop the S&P 500 (SPX) is still up 13% this year.
One interpretation is that investors still don’t think we will go over the cliff, or not completely. That’s been the predominant line of market strategists for a while now. Markets aren’t rational. We could still wake up one day, January 2 perhaps, and the market will be headed toward a 1,000 point fall. And I guess you can still believe that, but the number of days you can stick with that analysis are dwindling.
…
“investors still don’t think we will go over the cliff, or not completely.”
Fiscal dangle?
Fiscal denial.
You and I both expect the big drop. Even without the “fiscal cliff,” a 46-month runup of stock prices is a long time. Note from February 2003 to October 2007 it was 56 months. Then the market kept falling to a new low over the following 18 months.
I’m thinking a repeat of the 2003 low is going to happen. I have alerts set and I’m being very bearish on my buy prices. I am thinking of getting more bearish. My picks are for 60% of their 2012 peaks but I think I will adjust to 50%. I am very suspicious of Apple and Google valuations and insider selling reports.
There is a lot of insider selling on most stocks. I noticed massive insider buying on a few: VMWare for one, AT&T for another.
“I noticed massive: insider buying on a few: VMWare for one, AT&T for another.”
As for AT&T, look again:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=T+Insider+Transactions
Lots of this insider buying immediately becomes lots of insider selling as cheap options are exchanged for worthless fiats.
Indeed! I was looking at SecForm4.com for my info on T. Matthew Rose bought over $1.3 million worth of shares November 20. But then my site did not show the dispositions that your site shows.
Priceline (PCLN) looks primed for a massive haircut.
Yeah there have been a lot of insider sales of PCLN. About $10 million worth of shares sold the last two months alone.
Six Month + Delinquent Mortgages Amount To More Than Half Of Bank of America’s Market Cap
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/19/2012 08:02 -0500
For those curious why many people are scratching their heads how the market cap of Bank of America has nearly doubled in the past year, here it is: “Bank of America Corp. has amassed $64 billion of mortgages that are at least six months delinquent and have yet to enter foreclosure, more than twice the amount held by its four largest competitors combined.” $64 billion is more than half the market cap of Bank of America as of this moment.
In other words, by keeping tens of billions of mortgages off the market, Bank of America is hoping to limit the supply of houses in the market, creating an artificial shortage, in the process pushing up the prices of all other house higher, and only then to start dumping its pre-foreclosure inventory to a witless housing market.
And of course, this number excludes any of the tens of billions of mortgages that are in process of discharge and full write off, as well as the tens of billions in associated Reps and Warranties legal fees, which will go from accrued to paid out status as soon as Bank of America loses the MBIA litigation.
Also, recall “Foreclosure Stuffing” aka the most obvious housing subsidy in the past 4 years? There you have it. And there are those who wonder why we are experiencing merely the fourth dead cat bounce in the housing market.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-19/six-month-delinquent-mortgages-amount-more-half-bank-americas-market-cap - 113k -
“…by keeping tens of billions of mortgages off the market, Bank of America is hoping to limit the supply of houses in the market, creating an artificial shortage, in the process pushing up the prices of all other house higher, and only then to start dumping its pre-foreclosure inventory to a witless housing market.”
And this does not violate the price-fixing provisions of the Sherman Antitrust Act because…!?
Bank of America Delinquent Loans Mean Losses: Mortgages
By Prashant Gopal & Hugh Son - Dec 19, 2012 11:19 AM ET
Record Lateness
Mortgages on U.S. homes at the time the borrower lost the property averaged a record 728 days late in October, up from 661 days a year earlier, according to Lender Processing Services Inc. in Jacksonville, Florida. The U.S. average was 367 days in December 2008, before President Barack Obama took office and started programs to help struggling homeowners keep their residences.
While processing delays have given borrowers time to negotiate loan workouts, large lenders often lose documents and ask borrowers to resubmit them repeatedly, said Alan White, a professor who teaches consumer law at the City University of New York.
“With delinquent mortgages you want to triage them, work out ones that can be worked out and foreclose the ones that can’t,” he said. “But if the only outcome is no outcome, it’s not helping any of the parties affected, including the economy.”
“With delinquent mortgages you want to triage them,”
What is it nurse?
The patient has terminal Record Lateness.
Mortgage Defibrillator
CLEAR!!
He’s current again Doctor, but not for long.
Bear, which provision of the Sherman Anti-trust is BoA violating? This appears to be closer to hoarding than to collusion.
Price fixing.
P.S. I’m not too worried about it, as such schemes tend to fall apart of their own weight. A nice historical example was when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the market on silver. They eventually lost their shirts when there was nobody left to sell to at artificially inflated prices.
I won’t be the least bit surprised if we have a “Housing Thursday” at some point over the next few years. For instance, suppose that out of concern for U.S. households’ inability to afford to rent or purchase a home as a place to live in, our federal government decided to restrict or eliminate foreign investor purchases of U.S. residential properties? Wouldn’t a similar event to Silver Thursday be the logical outcome?
Silver Thursday
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Silver Thursday was an event that occurred in the silver commodity markets on Thursday, 27 March 1980. A steep fall in silver prices led to panic on commodity and futures exchanges.
Background
Nelson Bunker Hunt and William Herbert Hunt, the sons of Texas oil billionaire Haroldson Lafayette Hunt, Jr., had for some time been attempting to corner the market in silver. In 1979, the price for silver jumped from $6 per troy ounce ($0.193/g) to a record high of $48.70 per troy ounce ($1.566/g), which represents an increase of 712%. The brothers were estimated to hold one third of the entire world supply of silver (other than that held by governments). The situation for other prospective purchasers of silver was so dire that the jeweller Tiffany’s took out a full page ad in the New York Times, condemning the Hunt Brothers and stating “We think it is unconscionable for anyone to hoard several billion, yes billion, dollars worth of silver and thus drive the price up so high that others must pay artificially high prices for articles made of silver”.
But on January 7, 1980, in response to the Hunts’ accumulation, the exchange rules regarding leverage were changed, when COMEX adopted “Silver Rule 7″ placing heavy restrictions on the purchase of commodities on margin. The Hunt brothers had borrowed heavily to finance their purchases, and as the price began to fall again, dropping over 50% in just four days, they were unable to meet their obligations, causing panic in the markets.
…
Nope, not seeing it. Your link specifically references acts of collusion between competitors to fix the price of specific services, or to raise or lower prices in unison, or some other concrete method to set prices at some agreed level.
The housing case has more uncertainty: house prices are set by arm’s length open bid, for the most part. If the bank decides not to sell at that price, then people will find another house. Not too much different from an auction house holding a reserve price, I suppose. There’s enough price competition in the process that nailing BoA on Sherman looks pretty hard to prove.
The best way to solve this is by ditching mark-to–market. Then collusion won’t matter, as banks won’t be able to afford to hold their properties. Of course, that will never happen. If the price of houses fall, then the Fannie/Freddie balance sheets will fall too. F&F are too big to fail.
“Your link specifically references acts of collusion between competitors to fix the price of specific services, or to raise or lower prices in unison, or some other concrete method to set prices at some agreed level.”
So on your planet, an agreement by lenders to withhold housing inventory from the market in order to fix prices would not qualify as price fixing?
“…house prices are set by arm’s length open bid, for the most part.”
Your lack of an economics background is showing itself again.
“The housing case has more uncertainty: house prices are set by arm’s length open bid, for the most part.”
Where do you come up with this tripe? Do you make it up or is it part of the script you’ve been handed?
Housing prices are set by M+L+profit.
” an agreement by lenders to withhold housing inventory from the market in order to fix prices would not qualify as price fixing?”
There has to be an actual agreement. High level representatives from all the places that have control over sales who talk to each other and decide how many houses each one is allowed to sell out of their inventory over a particular period of time. Think OPEC when it works well. All of them deciding to sell only in dribs and drabs because they know that is the best move for everyone isn’t an agreement and isn’t collusion. It is just a bunch of people picking the right decision in a version of the prisoner’s dilemma.
But on January 7, 1980, in response to the Hunts’ accumulation, the exchange rules regarding leverage were changed, when COMEX adopted “Silver Rule 7″ placing heavy restrictions on the purchase of commodities on margin.
Wouldn’t free markets have solved the Hunt Brothers problem just as effectively (if perhaps not as swiftly)?
All of the silver miners would have increased production to the maximum extent possible—and also been selling future production on the futures market to lock in the high prices.
Problem solved.
The best way to solve this is by ditching mark-to–market.
You mean by ditching mark-to-fantasy, and REINSTATING mark-to-market.
You are correct that that would solve a large part of the problem, though banks could still carry them on the books at above-market prices—it just would be accounting fraud at that point, rather than just accounting.
“There has to be an actual agreement.”
And there may well be one. How could we know for sure without a bit of detective work?
“All of the silver miners would have increased production to the maximum extent possible—and also been selling future production on the futures market to lock in the high prices.
Problem solved.”
Something similar could happen to housing. I don’t know about where you guys live, but I see plenty of signs that new construction is set to swamp the market in our area with new inventory, even before all the foreclosures and other shadow inventory has worked its way through the supply channel.
“It is just a bunch of people picking the right decision in a version of the prisoner’s dilemma.”
Perhaps you forgot what caused the prisoners’ dilemma, which was their inability to collude on their story when they were held in separate jail cells.
Perhaps you forgot what caused the prisoners’ dilemma, which was their inability to collude on their story when they were held in separate jail cells.
+1 Rogers’ Rangers: Rule #5. “If you have the good fortune to take any prisoners, keep them separate, till they are examined, and in your return take a different route from that in which you went out, that you may the better discover any party in your rear, and have an opportunity, if their strength be superior to yours, to alter your course, or disperse, as circumstances may require.”
“Housing prices are set by M+L+profit.”
Who determines what the profit is?
How long until B of A goes down? They are nothing more than a zombie bank. Everybody should take their money out of B of A, and put this pig out of everybody’s misery.
Not soon enough.
BofA’s other dirty secret is being the first mover and prime leader of offshoring support jobs among banks.
We used to call them “Bank of India”.
Not soon enough.
Halloween decorations carry haunting message of forced labor
By Rachel Stark, The Oregonian The Oregonian
on December 23, 2012 at 9:00 AM
“If you occasionally buy this product, please kindly resend this letter to the World Human Right Organization. Thousands people here who are under the persicution of the Chinese Communist Party Government will thank and remember you forever.”
The graveyard kit, the letter read, was made in unit 8, department 2 of the Masanjia Labor Camp in Shenyang, China.
Chinese characters broke up choppy English sentences.
“People who work here have to work 15 hours a day without Saturday, Sunday break and any holidays. Otherwise, they will suffer torturement, beat and rude remark. Nearly no payment (10 yuan/1 month).”
Ten yuan is equivalent to $1.61.
“People who work here, suffer punishment 1-3 years averagely, but without Court Sentence (unlaw punishment). Many of them are Falun Gong practitioners, who are totally innocent people only because they have different believe to CCPG. They often suffer more punishment than others.”
The letter was not signed.
The anonymous letter evoked skepticism, too. Written largely in English scrawl, it was almost too bold of an act to seem plausible. Still, U.S. authorities on China took note.
“We’re in no position to confirm the veracity or origin of this,” said Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch. “I think it is fair to say the conditions described in the letter certainly conform to what we know about conditions in re-education through labor camps.”
China’s re-education through labor is a system of punishment that allows for detention without trial. Various reports allege followers of the banned spiritual group, Falun Gong, are sent to the reform camps – claims supported in the letter – but the facts are difficult to confirm.
Masanjia labor camp is located in the industrialized capital of the Liaoning Province in northeast China. A Google search of the camp yields pages of grim results.
“If this thing is the real deal, that’s somebody saying please help me, please know about me, please react,” Richardson said. “That’s our job.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/happy-valley/index.ssf/2012/12/halloween_decorations_carry_ha.html - 81k -
ahansen said:
“As PRC matures, so will the regulation of its internal welfare.”
It will and is. Google it. But much like here, resistance to worker rights is fierce.
But much like here, resistance to worker rights is fierce.
+1. I expect that in China, it will not only be “fierce”, but also bloody.
Thanks to BiLA for this late post yesterday:
Exodus: California Tax Revenue Plunges by 22%
by Chriss W. Street
13 Mar 2012
State Controller John Chaing continues to uphold the California Great Seal Motto of “Eureka”, i.e., ‘I have found it’. But what Chaing is finding as Controller is that California’s economy as measured by tax revenues is still tanking. Compared to last year, State tax collections for February shriveled by $1.2 billion or 22%. The deterioration is more than double the shocking $535 million reported decline for last month. The cumulative fiscal year decline is $6.1 billion or down 11% versus this period in 2011.
While California Governor Brown promises strong economic growth is just around the corner, Chaing proves that the best way for Sacramento politicians to hurt the economy and thereby generate lower tax revenue, is to have the highest tax rates in the nation.
California politicians seem delusional in their continued delusion that high taxes have not savaged the State’s economy. Each month’s disappointment is written off as due to some one-time event.
The State Controller’s office did acknowledge that higher than normal tax refunds for February might have reduced the collection of some personal income taxes. Given that 2012 has an extra day in February for leap year, there might have been one day more of tax refunds sent out. But the Controller’s report shows personal income tax collections fell by $325 million, or 16% versus last year. Furthermore, leap year would have added another day for retail sales and use tax collection, but those revenues also fell during February-by an even larger $813 million, 25% decline from 2011.
The more likely reason tax collections continue falling is that businesses and successful people are leaving California for the better tax rates available in more pro-business states.
Derisively referred to as “Taxifornia” by the independent Pacific Research Institute, California wins the booby prize for the highest personal income taxes in the nation and higher sales tax rates than all but four other states. Though Californians benefit from Proposition 13 restrictions on how much their property tax can increase in one year, the state still has the worst state tax burden in the U.S.
…
Thanks!
And note that article was back in March, before Prop 30. Time will tell if the exodus from California will turn into a flood. Meanwhile, Austin and San Antonio are attractive to Californians who are leery of more conservative (but larger) cities of Dallas/Ft. Worth and Houston. Arizona has quietly been incubating high tech in places such as Chandler, a suburb of Phoenix.
In California the income tax is fairly flat. Everyone with an AGI over $48,000 pays the 9.3% California income tax rate. That stays the same for those with adjusted gross incomes less than $250,000. However with federal tax credits expiring for middle class families, and with California sales taxes increasing, this will turn the wrench tighter and force more taxpaying Californians to flee. And I did not even begin to mention the companies that continue to flee the state.
And note that article was back in March, before Prop 30.
Any idea what the data has shown for the past 9mo?
I cannot guess. Personally my income tax in 2013 will be lower than my 2012 tax if I stay working in California through the end of 2013 - even though my current year long tax break goes away mid-February.
When I lived (briefly) in CA in the 1990s, I knew right away that my highest priority was to leave… forever.
But on the other hand, statements like “global warming is real,” whatever that means, are political, not scientific. And they help pave the way for more research funding into climate change, global warming, etc.
Whether you believe in human influenced climate change or (as a friend who doesn’t believe says) a “dynamic system that you wouldn’t want to stay static”, it seems to me that some of the answers about what to do are the same…
1) Prepare infrastructures for more extreme weather.
2) Reconsider allowing building in most likely to be impacted areas
3) Reconsider (govt sponsored) flood insurance - money for moving, not necessarily rebuilding.
4) Consider reducing emissions for the sake of your childrens lungs.
5) Developing sustainable energy / efficiency as PATRIOTIC duty, to reduce our need to depend on imports from places that don’t like us or are unstable/unreliable.
(One of the few things I remember from Algebra, was the teacher saying that if you don’t understand the whole problem, do the parts you do understand. At that point the solution to the whole problem can become clearer.)
That’s all fine. The part that bugs me is the (unscientific) causal inference constantly made in the MSM to link all the above issues and others to human-caused global warming.
California has always had extreme weather. The entire Central Valley was flooded in the 1800s, back when global warming was far less ‘real’ than it is now.
If you think California’s present existence on the brink of fiscal insolvency is something new, think again!
Great Flood of 1862
The Great Flood of 1862 or Noachian Deluge was the largest flood in the recorded history of Oregon, Nevada and California, occurring from December 1861 to January 1862. It was preceded by weeks of continuous rains (or snows in the high elevations) that began in Oregon in November 1861 and continued into January 1862. This was followed by a record amount of rain from January 9th-12th, and contributed to a flood which extended from the Columbia River southward in western Oregon and through California to San Diego, and extended as far inland as Idaho in Washington Territory, Nevada and Utah in Utah Territory and Arizona in western New Mexico Territory.
It was climaxed by a warmer, more intense storm with much more rain that was made more serious by the earlier large accumulation of snow, now melted by the rain in the lower elevations of the mountains. Throughout the affected area, all the streams and rivers rose to great heights, flooded the valleys, inundated or swept away towns, mills, dams, flumes, houses, fences, and domestic animals, and ruined fields. An early estimate of property damage was $10,000,000.[1] However, later it was estimated that approximately one-quarter of the taxable real estate in the state of California was destroyed in the flood. Dependent on property taxes, the State of California went bankrupt. The governor, state legislature, and state employees were not paid for a year and a half.
…
Flooding of the Central Valley
Like many other towns along the tributary rivers to the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers, at Knight’s Ferry, its homes, its mill and most of its businesses were ruined by the flood. Its bridge spanning the Stanislaus River withstood the flood waters but was destroyed when the debris of the bridge at Two-Mile Bar, only a short distance up river, torn from its foundation, crashed into the Knights Ferry Bridge, crushing the truss supports and knocking it from its rock foundation.[11] Some towns like Empire City and Mokelumne City were destroyed entirely.
The entire Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys were inundated for an extent of 300 miles (480 km), averaging 20 miles (32 km) in breadth.[12] John Carr wrote of his riverboat trip up the Sacramento River when it was at one of its highest stages of flood:
The city of Sacramento suffered the worst damage due to its levee, which lay in a wide and flat valley at the junction of the American and Sacramento Rivers. When the floodwaters entered from the higher ground on the East, the levee acted as a dam to keep the water in the city rather than let it flow out. Soon the water level was 10 feet higher inside than the level of the Sacramento River on the outside. Dozens of wood houses, some two stories high, were simply lifted up and carried off by the flood, as was “all the firewood, most of the fences and sheds, all the poultry, cats, rats and many of the cows and horses”. A chain gang was sent to break open the levee, which, when it finally broke, allowed the waters to rush out of the city center and lowered the level of the flooding by five to six feet. Eventually the waters fell to a level on a par with the lowest part of the city.
…
These days, Sacramento real estate is merely figuratively, not physically, underwater.
. The part that bugs me is the (unscientific) causal inference constantly made in the MSM to link all the above issues and others to human-caused global warming.
California has always had extreme weather. The entire Central Valley was flooded in the 1800s, back when global warming was far less ‘real’ than it is now.
Wow , the biggest flood in that area ‘in recorded history’. Which must stretch all the way back to…300 years ago?
That really disproves the 14,000 peer-reviewed published papers that have found evidence of human-caused global warming, in things like thousand-year-old ice and tree ring samples.
Thanks for keeping everything ’scientific’, which you are clearly an expert in.
Give your strawman attacks on stuff I never said a rest, already…
Give your strawman attacks on stuff I never said a rest, already…
Oh, wasn’t that your quote about how human-caused global warming might be bunk, because there was a big flood in Cali in the 1800s?
“Oh, wasn’t that your quote about how human-caused global warming might be bunk, because there was a big flood in Cali in the 1800s?”
That was your misinterpretation of my comment.
4) Consider reducing emissions for the sake of your childrens lungs.
CO2 emissions do NOT harm your children’s lungs. Particulates, yes; CO2, no.
Matt Taibbi
Glenn Hubbard, Leading Academic and Mitt Romney Advisor, Took $1200 an Hour to Be Countrywide’s Expert Witness
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/glenn-hubbard-leading-academic-and-mitt-romney-advisor-took-1200-an-hour-to-be-countrywides-expert-witness-20121220
Glenn Hubbard is a scumbag of the highest order.
Let’s give thanks that he will not be President Romney’s chief economist, and pray that he does not become Ben Bernanke’s successor.
Geithner To Replace Bernanke At Fed?
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timmothy Geithner is an odds-on favorite to replace Ben Bernanke as Fed Chairman, according to Washington insiders.
Bernanke’s second term as Chairman of the Federal Reserve ends on January 31, 2014. It is unlikely that President Obama will nominate the Bush appointee to a third run; instead, a new candidate who will be able to the president’s economic views beyond 2016 is a more probable scenario.
According to William Cohan at Bloomberg News, Timothy Geithner fits that description more than other possibilities being quietly bandied about.
Geithner also has experience in the Fed. He was president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for six years until being tapped by President Obama for Treasury Secretary in 2009.
Geithner’s close relationship with Wall Street enabled him to more easily work to secure the “too big to fail” bailouts of Bear Stearns Cos., Merrill Lynch, American International Group Inc. (AIG).
…
“U.S. Treasury Secretary Timmothy Geithner is an odds-on favorite to replace Ben Bernanke as Fed Chairman, according to Washington insiders.”
How would the markets react to a gentile chairman?
“How would the markets react to a gentile chairman?”
He wouldn’t be the first.
Utah State History
People Who Made a Difference:
Marriner S. Eccles
The Great Depression of the 1930s: It was a crisis, all right.
The economy had taken a nose-dive. People lost jobs, houses, and life savings.
A man from Utah did a lot to help those people: Marriner S. Eccles.
Eccles was a brilliant businessman/banker who thought that anyone could succeed through thrift and hard work.
At least, he thought this until the big crash of 1929.
As he worked with the Utah Committee for Relief, he saw hard-working, thrifty people who couldn’t find work, people who were hungry, homeless, and hopeless.
Clearly, thrift and hard work were not enough.
Eccles pondered the sorry state of the nation and came up with bold, innovative solutions. And he found a new life’s goal. Instead of just making as much money as possible, he wanted to put his energy into creating a stable national economy.
Eccles in a Nutshell
* Eccles was born into a wealthy, influential Mormon family in Logan, Utah. He himself became a millionaire at age 22.
* He formed what may have been the nation’s first multibank holding company: First Security Corporation.
* During the Great Depression he helped convince President Franklin Roosevelt to use government funds to put idle people, materials, and money to work.
* He was a key player in the creation of:
- The Works Progress Administration
- The Federal Housing Authority
- The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
- The Federal Reserve System in its current form
* He served as head of the Federal Reserve System. (Like Alan Greenspan and, currently, Ben Bernanke).
* He said, “I believe that inefficiency and waste should be eliminated…. I abhor politics and favoritism in any phase of government expenditures.”
* During Harry Truman’s administration, he fought for a balanced budget and tighter credit controls. The business community hated this—and they pressured Truman to fire him as head of the Federal Reserve System.
* Later, he spoke out against the Vietnam War when it was unpopular to oppose the war.
In short, Eccles was brilliant, unconventional, and influential. He did not let politics sway him, but stuck to principles.
Dean May wrote, “Although his views were often unpopular, time usually proved them to be correct.”
…
“Marriner S. Eccles”
I used to clean the windows of a San Francisco Telegraph Hill nine-story mansion owned by the Eccles family, but I’m not sure if it’s the same family.
Thanks for the post!
Yes.
OBITUARY — Sallie M. Eccles
Michael Taylor
Published 4:00 am, Tuesday, June 27, 1995
Philanthropist Sallie M. Eccles, who helped support public television station KQED and was the widow of Marriner Eccles, chairman of the Federal Reserve under Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, died Friday in her Telegraph Hill apartment. She was 87.
…
“Philanthropist Sallie M. Eccles. . .”
Wow, thanks for that!
Prominent Mormons have inhabited the north end of San Francisco dating back to when Sam Brannan settled there before California became a state.
Samuel Brannan
(1819-1889)
An early apostle of the power of publicity, Samuel Brannan enjoyed spectacular success in capitalizing on the California gold rush in what was to prove a dramatic and tumultuous life.
Born in Maine in 1819, at age fourteen he moved to Ohio with his family. He completed his printer’s apprenticeship in 1836, and spent the next five years moving from state to state as a journeyman printer. Brannan converted to Mormonism in 1842 and subsequently moved to New York City to help publish several Mormon newspapers.
In November of 1845 a large group of New York City Mormons decided to seek refuge in California, then formally a Mexican territory. Brannan led the expedition of over two hundred people, which travelled by boat around South America and to the Hawaiian Islands. Their 1846 arrival in San Francisco (then called Yerba Buena) immediately tripled the city’s tiny population.
After a brief period as publisher of a San Francisco newspaper, Brannan moved to John Sutter’s settlement on the Sacramento and American Rivers and soon established a general store. The Mormon church claimed that he had diverted tithe money to this commercial enterprise, and expelled Brannan when he refused to return it. (”I’ll give the Lord his money when I get a receipt signed by the Lord,” Brannan is alleged to have said.) When James Marshall discovered gold on Sutter’s land in 1848, Brannan seized the opportunity by widely publicizing the discovery and then selling his goods to the flood of men who came in search of gold.
Within several years, Brannan’s meteoric commercial success had made him California’s first millionaire. In 1849 he returned to San Francisco, where he continued his business activity, was elected to the City Council, and played a leading role in organizing the controversial Committee of Vigilance, which served as a citizen’s police force. Throughout the 1850’s his wealth and influence continued to grow; he became a major California landowner and helped to establish several banks and railroad and telegraph companies. Serious alcoholism and a volatile temperament, however, were his eventual undoing. He lost his fortune and health, as did many of those who first benefitted from the gold rush, and died an unnoticed death in rural San Diego county.
Clearly Eccles was a ’scumbag of the highest order’:
* He was a key player in the creation of:
- The Works Progress Administration
- The Federal Housing Authority
- The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
- The Federal Reserve System in its current form
“Clearly Eccles was a ’scumbag of the highest order’:”
Here’s to hoping for fewer encounters with alpha-sloth’s strawman brigade in 2013.
Let’s give thanks that the U.S. National Debt is only at $16,405,961,999,999
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ - 213k - Cached - Similar pages
US National Debt Clock : Real Time U.S. National Debt Clock.
Glenn Hubbard is a scumbag of the highest order.
+1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaXNqGgIc-g (2.5-min)
The Redefaulters are coming.
Zombie loans.
Mortgage Defibrillator
CLEAR!!
He’s current again Doctor, but not for long.
“The Redefaulters are coming.”
+1 Wall street and our phony economy is counting on ‘em!
Bummer, underwater and underwater.
Home underwater, plus water damage
Realty Q&AAugust 24, 2012|Lew Sichelman
QUESTION: Here’s a tough one for you. In late 2007, we bought a house in Manassas, Va., on Lake Jackson and financed $520,000. To get the loan approved, the gave us two loans—a $405,000 first mortgage, and a $115,000 second. A recent appraisal said the house was only worth $325,000. But he compared our lake house to simple tract homes. We still owe $500,000: $400,000 on the first lien and $100,000 on the second. I am retired Navy and we have great income and perfect credit—but we don’t have much in savings since it all went into the house when we bought it. We cannot refi with a VA-guaranteed loan because of the second mortgage and being so far underwater, but we may be eligible for an FHA 203(k) rehab loan, though I am not sure.
To complicate matters, we suffered damage in July’s wind storm and extended power outage. Tree limbs damaged the metal roof on our house and it is leaking and will probably need to be replaced, as metal roofs are not easily repaired. Also, the huge and unique wood paneled ceiling is warping and delaminating and will probably have to be replaced as well. And water leaking from the fridge during the power outage warped the kitchen floors, so the flooring will need to be replaced, as will the floor boards underneath
http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-08-24/finance/33344230_1_rehab-loan-metal-roof-power-outage - 45k -
Will 2013 be the year when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are finally wound down?
BofA CEO: Don’t Get Rid of Fannie and Freddie
Published December 14, 2012
Reuters
Brian Moynihan, Bank of America CEO, BofA CEO
REUTERS
Bank of America (BAC) Chief Executive Brian Moynihan on Friday said the taxpayer-supported mortgage giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, should not be eliminated as policymakers calibrate the right balance of government support for home buying.
Regulatory uncertainty is holding back the return of private capital to the mortgage market, Moynihan said. But he cautioned that Fannie and Freddie should not be eliminated without first building a housing finance system for the future.
Moynihan, in remarks before a panel at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said that a government withdrawal that goes too far would put homeownership out of reach for many borrowers. Some of the “the old assumptions” designed to support home buying should be revisited, and there are steps that can be taken to ease the government out of the market, he said.
“I don’t think changing Fannie and Freddie in some abrupt fashion is wise policy,” he said. “We need Fannie and Freddie. They are critical to the transition.”
…
Brian Moynihan to his DC toadies:
“I beg you please don’t f**k me and my yachting lifestyle. I got your sugar, sugar.”
HUD, FHA, Freddie and Fannie are nothing but insider back channels for these scumbags and it’s been that way for decades.
Fannie, Freddie Will Live Forever: Street Whispers
By Shanthi Bharatwaj - The Street Nov 27, 2012 3:05 pm
If you are waiting for a plan from Washington to wind down mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae (OTC:FNMA) and Freddie Mac (OTC:FMCC), don’t hold your breath. They aren’t going anywhere.
Far from ending their dominance, policymakers are drafting new rules governing the origination and securitization of mortgages that might only strengthen the stronghold of Fannie and Freddie, according to FBR Capital analyst Paul Miller.
“We foresee a continued dominance of the implied government guarantee. While Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may be ended ‘in name,’ Congress will keep the infrastructure in place to further its homeownership goals,” Miller wrote in a report titled the “Future of the Housing Market: Winners and Losers.”
…
They won’t live forever. I predict major decentralizing of governments within two generations in all developed nations.
I hope you are right. I find their zombie post-collapse existence very disheartening. You’d think lessons would have been learned from their spectacular Fall 2008 implosion, but instead, it appears there is an active effort underway to reconstitute them, pretending all along that they were never bailed out by taxpayers.
Merry Xmas to all of my HBB friends and family. We may be dysfunctional; we may argue a LOT; but in the end, there is something that keeps bringing us back together.
Happy holiday to you all!
Happy Holiday to you as well. And thanks for your many engaging, noninflammatory posts! My New Year’s resolution is to offer more insightful, less incendiary posts in 2013…
there is something that keeps bringing us back together
Yes there is. It’s called cash from NAR, MBA, NAHB, etc.
Yes. It’s true.
I only wish I were getting cash from the NAR, MBA, NAHB. I’d get that heavy-up sooner rather than later.
Nobody can be so obtusely stupid without being on the dole.
Nobody can be so obtusely stupid without being on the dole.
I thought you were a strip-mall builder.
Are smart people acutely aware if they the ones on the dole that the rich people are happy to keep them there?
People like jo’s daddy or the Walmart Waltons.
Do they want to pay out of their pockets so their employees can eat? Why pay a living wage(eating profits) when they can get their sales dollars anyway thru govt provided foodstamp bux used by their own employees at their establishments.
Sincerely,
Prole
Alpo/Oxy…. it’s all the same.
Do they want to pay out of their pockets so their employees can eat?
I hope all HBB’ers who sympathize with this view are backing it up with super-generous tips to the starving clerks and restaurant workers they most likely interact with frequently. Start with giving $100 tips on a regular basis. /hypocrisy
Is this guy a fairly typical NRA member?
Body found in burned home of killer of 2 firemen
George Walsh, Associated Press
3:38p.m. EST December 25, 2012
Two firefighters were shot dead and two others remain hospitalized. One of the weapons recovered was a .233-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber gun used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn.
Story Highlights
The gunman had served time for killing his grandmother in 1980
Two firefighters died responding to the blaze
Shooter William Spengler killed himself
WEBSTER, New York (AP) — Police have found human remains in the burned-out home of the New York state ex-convict who killed two firefighters and believe the victim is the gunman’s sister.
Police Chief Gerald Pickering said Tuesday the remains were found in the charred house that 62-year-old William Spengler shared with his 67-year-old sister, Cheryl. A medical examiner will need to determine the identity.
The ex-con who lured firefighters to their deaths in a blaze of gunfire left a typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighborhood and “do what I like doing best, killing people,” police said Tuesday.
Police Chief Gerald Pickering said Tuesday that 62-year-old William Spengler, who served 17 years in prison for the 1980 hammer slaying of his grandmother, armed himself with a revolver, a shotgun and a semiautomatic rifle before he set his house afire to lure first responders into a death trap before dawn on Christmas Eve.
Two firefighters were shot dead and two others are hospitalized. Spengler killed himself as seven houses burned around him Monday on a narrow spit of land along Lake Ontario.
One of the weapons recovered was a .233-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber gun used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn., Pickering said.
…
“Is this guy a fairly typical NRA member?”
I don`t actually know what a typical NRA member looks like but I have been to a few gun shows at the South Florida fair grounds where there were thousands of people and I never saw anyone who looked like the nut from Newtown, the nut from Aurora Colorado or the nut who killed his grandmother with a hammer.
How Many People are in the Nra?
The National Rifle Association, NRA reported to have just under 4 million members
So I would guess the typical NRA member doesn`t do this crazy sh#t.
How many gun deaths are in the US every year?
Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222
Throw in……
Each year approximately 16,000 are killed in alcohol related crashes
Useful Drunk Driving Facts
Drunk driving facts can be a useful tool for any parent or teacher who wants to alert young people to the dangers of drinking and driving. Here are some helpful drunk driving facts that may help scare them straight:
• One person is killed every half-hour due to drunk driving
• Each year approximately 16,000 are killed in alcohol related crashes
• Alcohol is a factor in almost half of all traffic fatalities
• Every other minute a person is seriously injured in an alcohol related crash
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/9591-the-facts-on-drunk-driving - 59k
And the answer is obvious
Take away everyone`s guns and cars so the crazy @ssholes among us can`t kill anyone?
“So I would guess the typical NRA member doesn`t do this crazy sh#t.”
Of course not. But wouldn’t it seem to be in the NRA’s interest to make sure this type of crazy person can’t get his hands on military-style weapons?
Instead of looking for constructive ways to restrict gun access to criminals and nut jobs, they propose to post armed guards at every grade school to keep the crazies out.
Scoot Blog: Does the NRA Know What It’s Saying?
by Scoot , posted Dec 25 2012 7:38PM
I never expected the NRA’s response to the shooting at the elementary school in Newtown, CT to suggest censorship and increasing the size of government!
In his press conference last Friday, one week after the tragic shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, NRA Executive VP Wayne LaPierre fended off the new calls for stricter gun control by railing against violent video games and “blood-soaked” movies. If these are indeed forces that have the power to inspire evil in young people, then the next thought would be to censor such forms of entertainment.
The other main issue at the NRA’s press conference was a demand that the government put an armed guard in every school in America. LaPierre said that Congress must appropriate whatever funds are necessary to make armed guards in schools a reality.
We can all agree that there should be no price tag placed on protecting our children, but let’s make sure we define the problem and then address it. It is our nature to seek a quick answer following a tragedy in hopes of finding an immediate solution. We like to put unpleasant things behind us and move on, but that human tendency does not always yield the right solution.
It’s worth examining the NRA’s response to the Connecticut shooting by examining what is really being suggested. Censorship, a government ban on entertainment, is not only the wrong solution, but it defies the conservative ideology that is the backbone of the NRA.
Furthermore, LaPierre’s demand that Congress appropriate money to put armed guards in every school is a direct implication of an increase in taxes and an increase in the size of government, which also are contrary to conservative ideology.
…
“Instead of looking for constructive ways to restrict gun access to criminals and nut jobs, they propose to post armed guards at every grade school to keep the crazies out.”
Maybe like a common sense law that a legal gun owner must keep their guns in a safe or in their sole possesion for starters. That alone would have prevented the Newtown shootings and I have not seen the NRA or any Law makers mention that.
Now having said that the school Obama`s kids go to have 11 armed guards and did before his kids went there. It is standard operating procedure for the school. But I guess the kids that go to that school won`t have the same health care as the rest of us either will they.
I think the death toll from both gun violence and drunk driving is too high in the US.
As for taking away guns and cars, I think the authorities do already tend to take away people’s licenses (at least for a while) when they drive drunk. Blood alcohol limits could be lower, penalties could be higher.
Like guns, cars can cause death when the wrong people are in control. It’s not such an apples-to-apples comparison though: unlike guns, cars have a primary function unrelated to killing. It’s pretty much impossible to go through daily life and keep a job in most parts of this country without one. Most people don’t need to regularly use guns in quite the same way.
“The ex-con who lured firefighters to their deaths in a blaze of gunfire left a typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighborhood and “do what I like doing best, killing people,” police said Tuesday.”
Wow, so incredibly bold.
Merry Christmas
Its fight night!
Lennox VS Dawkins heavy weight title fight (science VS religion)
For example, 3th round, Lennox starts finding the range at the 7 minute mark and begins landing the jab on the inside, Dawkins attempts to counter but Lennox lands a left hook that catches Dawkins off guard at the 7:26 mark when he says: (well who made it?) From that point on Dawkins is on the defense cause that rocked him hard. He even tried to create some breathing space for himself by accusing Lennox of “putting words in his mouth”.
But Lennox was having none of it, he smells blood in the water finally, at 8:46 in a brilliant chess move, Lennox uses Dawkin’s own best selling book to smash him with the rational for the existence of a Creator.
Now Dawkins is a fighter (he’s the Marvin Hagler of atheism), so he’s not gonna give up; but for the first time you see him forced backwards into his main sub routine of “things progress from the simple to the complex”, instead of refining that concept into a denser and more lethal collection of new words.
The entire fight is basically a draw but I give it to Lennox on points because Dawkins has this nasty habit of “getting nasty”.
It would be interesting to know if these guys really don’t like each other. Each probably has great contempt for the other given their respective disciplines; but as chosen representatives of their crafts, they can’t afford to act a fool. For one, Lennox probably knows that Dawkins, being an atheist, may get up and throw him off the stage if he really gets pissed; “what happened to yo God ni88a? Where is he now…”
And Dawkins probably knows that if Lennox stabbed him in the neck, maybe nobody would call an ambulance, because if were all just animals, why should we care if yo ass bleeds out?
If the origin of life was an event resulting from the random mixture of elements and the application of energy, should we be using scientists, logic and theory to try to repeat it?
Or should we lock a thousand monkeys in a thousand laboratories with a thousand wrenches?
*listen to my instructions and protect yourselves at all times.
Understood?
Understood?
Good, lets get it on*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxF73wIcrjw
I held my nose while buying it, but my Vanguard REIT has gone up 3.2% since I purchased it in midyear 2012.
I just can’t bring myself to dance with the devil.
When it gets down to financial survival, I don’t much care…
There you go. This is why I’m also into muncipal bonds, although my voluntaryist / austrian economics associates would scoff. Even though I also buy gold bullion and store it myself.
I can’t, in good conscience, bring myself to short anything. It goes against my grain. I would feel like I’m taking advantage of a bad situation.
Parents too moral?
Think of shorting assets as a way to improve market efficiency, and perhaps you can overcome your moral qualms.
I’d imagine you’d lose that feeling rather quickly when you find yourself in a short squeeze with unlimited loss potential, as the masters of the universe wipe their asses with you.
Investors fleeing the ghost of recession past
Article by: WHITNEY KISLING , Bloomberg News
Updated: December 24, 2012 - 9:09 PM
Americans stung by the last financial crisis cashed out of stocks, leaving $200 billion in potential gains behind as stocks recovered.
Americans have missed out on almost $200 billion of stock gains as they drained money from the market in the past four years, haunted by the financial crisis.
Assets in equity mutual, exchange-traded and closed-end funds increased about 85 percent to $5.6 trillion since the bull market began in March 2009, trailing the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index’s 94 percent advance, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and Morningstar Inc. The proportion of retirement funds in stocks fell about half of a percentage point, compared with an average rise of 8.2 percentage points in rallies since 1990.
The retreat shows that even the biggest gain since 1998 failed to heal investor confidence after the financial collapse, which wiped out $11 trillion in U.S. equity value. That collapse was followed by record price swings in equities, a market breakdown that briefly erased $862 billion in share value amid the slowest recovery from a recession since World War II. Individuals are withdrawing money as political leaders struggle to avert budget cuts that may throw the economy into a new slump.
“Our biggest liability in the stock market has been the total destruction to confidence,” said James Paulsen, chief investment strategist at Minneapolis-based Wells Capital Management, which oversees about $325 billion.
The S&P 500 climbed 1.2 percent to 1,430.15 last week, extending the 2012 gain to 14 percent, led by financial stocks and consumer companies. The benchmark index from American equity has risen from a low of 676.53 on March 9, 2009, though it is still 8.8 percent below its record high on Oct. 9, 2007.
Much of the damage to investors is self-inflicted as U.S. growth improves and companies whose earnings are most tied to economic expansion reap the biggest rewards. Of the 500 companies in the benchmark index, 481 are higher now than they were in March 2009 or when they entered the gauge.
Individuals are selling into the rally, cutting the proportion of assets in stocks to 72 percent from 72.5 percent in 2009, according to 401(k) and IRA mutual fund data from the Washington-based Investment Company Institute compiled by Bloomberg. Investors are lowering the proportion of stocks they own in retirement funds during a bull market for the first time in 20 years.
The percentage of households owning stock mutual funds has also fallen, dropping every year since 2008 to 46.4 percent in 2011, the second-lowest since 1997, according to the latest ICI annual mutual fund survey.
The technology bubble in the 1990s saw equity mutual funds expand twice as much as the S&P 500. Stocks’ representation in 401(k) and individual retirement account funds rose to about 90 percent in 2000 from 77 percent in 1992.
Money has gone to the relative safety of fixed-income investments. Managers who specialize in corporate bonds and Treasuries have received nearly $1 trillion in fresh cash since March 2009, ICI data show.
Outflows from stocks muted gains as reduced demand kept companies from going public or expanding through mergers and acquisitions, according to Paul Zemsky, head of asset allocation for ING Investment Management.
“Imagine where we could be if we had had positive inflows,” Zemsky said. “It would be very helpful to get those flows reversed and have that money come out of bonds and into stock funds.”
…
“Potential gains”
Oxymoron alert.
Deliquent Mortgages Amount To More Than Half of Bank of Americas Market Cap
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/bank-of-america-delinquent-loans-mean-losses-mortgages.html
See how these problems don’t go away? The delayed outcome becomes far worse than the medicine if were administered early.
If you bought a house in the last few years, you’re in deep deep trouble.
Why aren’t they bankrupt?
Didn’t they get a too-big-to-fail bailout?
Would now be a good time for dips to buy?
ft dot com
Last updated: December 24, 2012 6:26 pm
Stalled fiscal cliff talks weigh on Wall St
By Anora Mahmudova in New York
US equity markets inched lower in holiday-shortened trading on Monday, as hopes faded for a resolution to the fiscal cliff of automatic spending cuts and tax increases before the year end.
There was little sign of even a partial fix as both parties blamed one another for stalled negotiations. John Boehner, the Republican speaker of the House, suffered defeat last Friday when his proposed “Plan B” did not garner enough support within his party.
President Barack Obama’s concessions over tax increases were rejected by the Republicans last week. Both parties agreed to continue negotiations this week.
Analysts at PNC Financial Services were optimistic about the prospects of a budget deal, however.
“We still believe a deal will get done to avoid the majority of the fiscal drag, but it may not happen until early in the new year. Nevertheless, we continue to expect spates of financial market volatility through the negotiation process,” they wrote in a note.
…
Obama to Leave Hawaiian Vacation to Return to Work on Fiscal Deal
By JEREMY PETERS
Published: December 25, 2012
KAILUA, Hawaii — President Obama was planning to cut his Christmas vacation short and return to Washington to make a last-ditch push for a compromise on a tax and spending dispute with Congress that remains stubbornly unresolved.
A White House official said on Tuesday that the president could depart as early as Wednesday.
Meanwhile, both chambers of Congress will come back from their holiday hiatus on Thursday and return to work. While there are growing signs that some members of both parties are prepared to accept a deal that raises taxes on people at the highest income levels, there is considerable distance between Republicans and Democrats and no guarantee that an agreement could pass.
The president and Congress left Washington late last week after House Republicans rejected a plan that would have left tax rates in place for all but those with incomes above $1 million.
Mr. Obama has since called for a less ambitious approach to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff on Jan. 1, when a series of automatic budget cuts and tax increases will go into effect if Congress and the White House cannot come up with an alternative course of action.
The White House has been seeking a resolution through talks with Senate Democrats, who control the chamber and have gained the tacit support of some of their Republican colleagues.
But the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, has given no indication that his members would not seek to block a deal that includes tax increases.
The main obstacle remains the Republican-led House, where a bloc of conservatives has ruled out any tax increases whatsoever.
…
Look for the ‘fiscal cliff’ to turn out to be a mirage.
Jan. 1 Slowly Morphing From Fiscal Deadline Into Horizon
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Published: December 25, 2012
Quick action by President Obama and Congress could still help the economy escape the full impact of hundreds of billions in tax increases and automatic spending cuts set to take effect shortly after the last minutes of 2012 tick away next week. But if the deadlock in Washington persists much longer than a few weeks, the consequences will quickly mount, economists warn.
Until late last week, most observers had expected the president and Congressional Republicans to come up with at least a short-term compromise before the year-end deadline. But the failure of Speaker John A. Boehner to win support for tax increases on the wealthiest Americans from fellow House Republicans has forced many economic observers to reconsider what might happen if political leaders remain deadlocked into 2013.
Wall Street is still betting on a quick deal, but that confidence is misplaced, said Julia Coronado, chief North American economist at BNP Paribas. “Markets have been incredibly complacent about this,” she said. If a compromise cannot be found by Jan. 1, she said, “the markets will take that hard.”
Some hits — like a two percentage point increase in payroll taxes and the end of unemployment benefits for more than two million jobless Americans — would be felt right away. But other effects, like tens of billions in automatic spending cuts, to include both military and other programs, would be spread out between now and the end of the 2013 fiscal year in September. These could quickly be reversed if a compromise is found.
Similarly, the expiration of Bush-era tax cuts on Jan. 1 would not have a major impact on consumers if Congress quickly agreed to extend them for all but the wealthiest Americans in early 2013, as is widely expected.
Other probable changes, like a jump in taxes on capital gains and dividends, would most likely be felt over a broader period rather than as an immediate blow to the economy.
In the meantime, more observers are contemplating what the impact will be if Washington ignores the year-end deadline and waits until January or February to act.
“It’s still possible they will work something out by the end of the year, but the probability seems reasonably high that we may go into January with no agreement,” said Dean Maki, chief United States economist at Barclays Capital. “But the longer this goes on, the more nervous I get about first-quarter growth. If negotiations were to linger into March, then the first quarter could be much weaker.”
…
“Look for the ‘fiscal cliff’ to turn out to be a mirage.”
+1 Entertainment just like of Big Time Wrestling.
Yep. I can’t remember how many times I’ve seen this played out over the last 35 years.
“Look for the ‘fiscal cliff’ to turn out to be a mirage.”
I’m reminded of Hank Paulson and his fear-mongering..
I’m reminded of Ben Bernanke and his fear mongering, especially since he conjured up the ‘fiscal cliff’ hobgoblin.
I asked my wife whether she was worried about the ‘fiscal cliff.’ First she indicated she didn’t follow the news on the topic, after which she opined that “it’s stupid.”
I call B.S. on the “representative example” below, which assumes $15,000 in mortgage interest payments. At current rates circa 3.5%, this implicitly assumes a mortgage balance of $15,000/3.5% = $428,571, which clearly only applies to a small minority of wealthy homeowners.
Commentary: Mortgage interest deduction claims, facts
By Kathleen Pender
Published 11:53 am, Monday, December 24, 2012
Few tax breaks stir as much emotion — and hyperbole — as the deduction homeowners get for mortgage interest. Although this tax break is not one of dozens set to expire at year end if we go off the fiscal cliff, there is talk of reining it in as part of a broader effort to reduce the nation’s deficit and/or stick it to the rich.
This has supporters and foes of the deduction out in force. The housing lobby (Realtors, home builders and mortgage bankers) paint it as mom and apple pie. Critics call it a sop to the wealthy since it mainly benefits taxpayers with big mortgages in high tax brackets.
Here’s a look at some claims that have been made about the deduction, and the facts behind them.
Claim: The mortgage interest deduction was intended to promote homeownership.
Fact: When the federal tax code was introduced in 1913, all interest was deductible. At that time, relatively few Americans except farmers had home mortgages, says Martin Sullivan, a contributing editor with Tax Analysts, a publication for tax professionals. “I’m pretty sure nobody intended it as a subsidy for the great American dream.”
In 1986, when Congress overhauled the tax code, it eliminated the interest deduction for most consumer debt, including auto loans and credit cards, but kept it for mortgages used to buy, build or substantially improve a home. This exception was a result of “brilliant lobbying” by the housing industries, says University of Southern California real estate professor Richard Green.
In 1987, Congress limited the deduction to interest on up to $1 million in mortgage debt on a first and second home. But it also created the home-equity deduction that lets homeowners deduct interest on up to $100,000 in mortgage debt used for purposes other than buying, building or improving a home. This was a back-door way of letting homeowners (but not renters) once again deduct interest on consumer debt.
It’s hard to see how the home-equity deduction promotes homeownership since it subsidizes people who use their houses like piggy banks, thereby depleting their home equity. Even real estate lobbyists have a hard time defending it, other than to say now is not a good time to be messing with the oh-so-fragile housing market.
Claim: The mortgage interest deduction is wildly popular.
Fact: In many surveys, it enjoys strong support. In practice, only 25 percent of households that filed a federal tax return in 2010 claimed the deduction, even though the homeownership rate was about 67 percent.
To claim it, homeowners must itemize their deductions; but for many, their standard deduction is higher than their itemized deductions combined, meaning they get no benefit from the mortgage interest deduction.
So why is it so popular? Even if you are not claiming it now, you may have claimed it in the past, hope to claim it in the future or think the person who will buy your home can claim it, says Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist with the California Association of Realtors. The association surveyed 800 people who bought a home in 2012, and 79 percent said the mortgage interest and property tax deductions were “extremely important” in their home-buying decision.
However, some people who claim the deduction may be overestimating its value, says Dennis Ventry, a professor at the UC-Davis School of Law. Its true value, he says, is the amount by which your interest payments, when added to your other potential itemized deductions, push you beyond the standard deduction, multiplied by your marginal tax rate.
Suppose you are married and in the 25 percent marginal tax bracket. You pay $15,000 in mortgage interest, $4,000 in state income taxes and make $1,000 in charitable contributions. Without the mortgage interest, you would take the standard deduction — $12,000. With the interest, you claim $20,000 in itemized deductions.
The value of the mortgage interest deduction is $8,000 ($20,000 minus $12,000) multiplied by 0.25, or $2,000. If, instead, you were in the 33 percent tax bracket, the benefit would be $8,000 multiplied by 0.33, or $2,640.
Claim: The deduction makes homes more affordable.
Fact: Lenders do not take the deduction into account when they qualify borrowers for a loan. It does reduce the after-tax cost of a mortgage, but whether this makes homes more affordable is debatable.
…
Europe’s Debt Crisis
Britain feels strain as austerity bites
By Mark Thompson @CNNMoney December 24, 2012: 8:33 AM ET
British households are facing financial strain
LONDON (CNNMoney)
Millions of Britons are facing a bleak holiday season worried about falling incomes and how to repay debt, as economic reports raise questions about whether the country’s austerity measures can restore growth.
A survey released Monday showed 43% of households expect their finances to deteriorate in 2013, compared with only 24% who expect an improvement.
“The vast majority of households anticipate that their financial well-being will either worsen or stagnate next year,” said Tim Moore, senior economist at financial data provider Markit, which compiled the report.
“With three-quarters of all households not expecting any improvement in their finances, the latest survey suggests that domestic consumer demand will remain under pressure in the near term — especially since inflation perceptions remain elevated and job insecurities are prevalent across the U.K.”
…
Is another half-decade a reasonable guess of the remaining duration of the Eurozone crisis, or is that overly optimistic?
20 December 2012 Last updated at 21:54 ET
Gavin Hewitt, Europe editor
Eurozone crisis: Troubling year ahead
Nun passing by a beggar in Rome, 10 Dec 12 Beggar in Rome: Italy’s debt mountain remains a source of anxiety
Eurozone crisis
Europe’s leaders, at the start of the year, would have settled for how 2012 is ending.
The worst of the predictions did not come true. The eurozone has survived intact, but it is still a currency in intensive care.
Recently I asked the German Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schaeuble, how far we were through the crisis and he thought somewhere between 50 and 60%.
Positive signs
Firstly - for those who see the glass half-full.
Europe’s leaders demonstrated their absolute commitment to defend the euro and the markets have started to believe them.
The President of the European Central Bank (ECB), Mario Draghi, was the star of the year. By promising to do whatever it takes to defend the currency he brought down the borrowing costs of countries like Spain and Italy. His promise remains untested, but the markets are wary of betting against the bank.
To the often-asked question of what stands behind the euro - the answer is now the ECB.
One of the ratings agencies said “the future of the euro will be decided at the gates of Rome”. Under Prime Minister Mario Monti’s stewardship, Italy’s borrowing costs shrank and reforms are being pushed through.
Europe has committed itself to a banking union - and a European supervisor of the eurozone’s big banks. It will involve a large transfer of national authority to a European institution - the ECB. Considering the banks have been at the heart of the crisis, this is a hugely significant step.
Once the banking supervisor is in place, troubled banks will be able to apply for help directly from the permanent bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM). It should mark the end of banking problems ending up on government books and forcing up their debts.
Greece did not leave the euro - something many German MPs and officials had suggested as recently as July. The word “Grexit” is no longer heard in the land. Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras is judged “serious” and “reliable”.
Frau Europe - Angela Merkel - is almost certain to be re-elected as German chancellor in September, although it may make her even more cautious in the short term.
And now the bad news...
Secondly - for those who see the glass as half-empty.
If you look at the real economy, instead of the eurozone’s new architecture, the outlook for 2013 is bleak. More countries are heading into recession and unemployment is still rising.
The Greek problem has been rolled over. Almost no one believes that its debts are sustainable. Sooner or later some of its debt will have to be written off. The German taxpayers, at some stage, are likely to be told they will lose money in Greece.
Spain’s economy is caught in a cycle of decline. Almost no one expects it to emerge from recession in 2013. It has proved the critics wrong so far, but early next year the question will return - will Spain need a full bailout? That is a problem unresolved. Its social fabric is fraying. Every large-scale demonstration has become more violent.
Italy has entered a period of political instability. Silvio Berlusconi may prove to be less of a player than imagined just a few weeks ago, but there is still likely to be jockeying for power. Mario Monti, the market’s favourite, may yet be anointed as the next leader, but the reforms are far less impressive than heralded and Italy is stuck in recession.
Anti-austerity backlash
…
Eurozone crisis as it happened: Greek euro exit still a risk, warns finance minister
Graeme Wearden and Nick Fletcher
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 20 December 2012 04.53 EST
Yannis Stournaras, who has predicted a ‘make or break year’ for Greece in 2013 Yannis Stournaras, who has predicted a ‘make or break year’ for Greece in 2013. Photograph: Georges Gobet/AFP/Getty Images
8.18am GMT
Greek finance minister: bankruptcy is still a risk
Good morning, and welcome to another day of rolling coverage of the eurozone financial crisis, and other key events in the world economy.
Greece’s finance minister has slightly deflated the sense of optimism as we ease into the Christmas break, by warning that the country faces another difficult year.
Yannis Stournaras has cautioned against getting carried away by recent progress, pointing out that things could unravel next year “if the political system finds the situation too difficult to handle”.
He made the comments in an interview with the Financial Times, published just a day after Greece’s credit rating was upgraded.
…
POLITICS
December 25, 2012, 8:00 p.m. ET
Budget Talks Cloud Outlook
Hopes Dim for a Big Deal on Fiscal Cliff, Prolonging Uncertainty for Economy
By SUDEEP REDDY
Washington’s budget gridlock is unsettling consumers and businesses, raising the risks that economic growth would be hurt next year no matter what Congress does in the coming days.
Lawmakers returning to town this week will see whether they can agree on a plan to avoid the full brunt of the fiscal cliff, the combined $500 billion in tax increases and spending cuts set to begin next week. Little if any progress was made in the talks before Congress and President Barack Obama left town last Friday for Christmas.
Aides in both parties say they expect a potential solution to start taking shape by the end of the week. But with so little time, hopes are dimming for anything other than a partial agreement, which would prolong the uncertainty and leave in place some tax or spending measures that act as a serious drag on the weak recovery. This could even trigger another recession, exacerbating the global economic slowdown.
“We’re all sitting on the sidelines right now wondering what’s going to happen to us,” said John Odland, chief financial officer at MacMillan-Piper Inc., a freight-transport firm in Seattle. “A lot of my contemporaries are feeling the same way, saying, ‘Let’s just wait and see what these knuckleheads do.‘ ”
…
How Washington’s failure to reach a tax deal could spoil your 2013
Published December 25, 2012
FoxNews.com
Call it the not-so-happy new year.
Unless Congress wrangles a deal in the next few days, Americans will ring in 2013 with champagne, funny hats — and a knock-you-off-your-feet cocktail of tax hikes.
The Washington-imposed financial headache goes beyond higher taxes. Due to the inaction on Capitol Hill, certain industries could be hit particularly hard by budget cuts and millions of taxpayers could be held up in filing their 2012 returns.
Here is an overview of all the ways the failure of Washington to reach a compromise could impact you:
Tax hikes
Wondering why passions are so heated in Washington over the looming fiscal crisis? The answer: $536 billion in tax increases.
That’s what’s in store next year without legislation to avert or curb them. Together, they amount to the largest tax increase in American history.
The biggest hit comes from the roll-back of the Bush-era tax rates. Families making between $50,000 and $75,000 would see taxes jump roughly $2,400, according to one non-partisan study.
As part of that jolt, investment taxes would rise as well — the capital gains rate would rise from 15 to 20 percent for most. Dividends would be taxed like regular income, as opposed to a flat 15 percent rate. And the estate tax would expand to catch more and more families.
The financial pain doesn’t stop there. A short-term Social Security payroll tax cut seems likely to expire no matter what, with the rate rising on Jan. 1 from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent.
And the so-called alternative minimum tax — a provision originally meant to ensure the wealthy pay a minimum amount to the government, but which has over time affected middle-class families — would expand to 28 million more taxpayers without an agreement to avert it. The average increase? $3,700.
Spending cuts, threatened jobs
Congress last year drafted a $1.2 trillion set of spending cuts so devastating, so unbalanced that it was supposed to motivate lawmakers to come up with a more reasonable deficit-reduction plan. They never did. As a result, the first installment of $110 billion in cuts is poised to hit next year. Half of that hits defense, and half hits other federal departments.
For the Pentagon, that means a roughly 9 percent budget cut. At the very least, this threatens contracts for the thriving defense industry. Across the government, though, some federal workers could be furloughed or laid off to cope with the cuts.
The combination of steep cutbacks and steep tax hikes is expected to have a broader impact. The Congressional Budget Office predicts the country could lose up to 3.4 million jobs.
…
Sally Pipes, Contributor
I cover health policy as President of the Pacific Research Institute
Op/Ed
12/25/2012 @ 6:39PM |23,766 views
In 2013, Millions Of Americans Face Obamacare Tax Hikes
As part of the negotiations over the fiscal cliff, Congress and President Obama are battling over whether to raise marginal tax rates at the very top of the income ladder.
Regardless of how these talks turn out, millions of Americans are already facing tax hikes thanks to Obamacare.
Obamacare’s authors chose to offset about half of the trillion-dollar cost of the law through higher taxes. Since the Supreme Court upheld the law’s individual mandate and allowed states to opt out of its Medicaid expansion, though, the cost estimate has swelled to $1.76 trillion between 2012 and 2021.
In 2013, a number of Obamacare’s taxes will go into effect. Each will increase the cost of health care, yield job losses, and deprive our struggling economy of investment. These are the true costs of Obamacare.
Let’s look at some of these taxes individually.
…
Pacific Research Institute
= Heritage Foundation = Cato Institute = we’d be better off with unaffordable, unreliable health insurance for 1/2 the country, no health insurance for the other half = right wing 1% defenders in a different guise
I confess to having personally done little this year to alleviate weak holiday retail sales. After blowing lots of dough this year on high gasoline prices, we had little spare change at year-end to fund Christmas gift purchases.
US Holiday Retail Sales Growth Weakest Since 2008
By DANIEL WAGNER AP Business Writer
WASHINGTON December 26, 2012 (AP)
U.S. holiday retail sales this year grew at the weakest pace since 2008, when the nation was in a deep recession. In 2012, the shopping season was disrupted by bad weather and consumers’ rising uncertainty about the economy.
A report that tracks spending on popular holiday goods, the MasterCard Advisors SpendingPulse, said Tuesday that sales in the two months before Christmas increased 0.7 percent, compared with last year. Many analysts had expected holiday sales to grow 3 to 4 percent.
In 2008, sales declined by between 2 percent and 4 percent as the financial crisis that crested that fall dragged the economy into recession. Last year, by contrast, retail sales in November and December rose between 4 percent and 5 percent, according to ShopperTrak, a separate market research firm. A 4 percent increase is considered a healthy season.
Shoppers were buffeted this year by a string of events that made them less likely to spend: Superstorm Sandy and other bad weather, the distraction of the presidential election and grief about the massacre of schoolchildren in Newtown, Conn. The numbers also show how Washington’s current budget impasse is trickling down to Main Street and unsettling consumers. If Americans remain reluctant to spend, analysts say, economic growth could falter next year.
In the end, even steep last-minute discounts weren’t enough to get people into stores, said Marshal Cohen, chief research analyst at the market research firm NPD Inc.
“A lot of the Christmas spirit was left behind way back in Black Friday weekend,” Cohen said, referring to the traditional retail rush the day after Thanksgiving. “We had one reason after another for consumers to say, ‘I’m going to stick to my list and not go beyond it.’”
…
I think I found the HBB theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_8CMEAnkIo
Does he look like Ben????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smk6STESfaE
“Does he look like Ben????”
Only if all white guys look alike.
Massive holiday homecoming big problem for rural town in Ireland
RATHKEALE, Ireland — Christmas in Ireland turns this little town into the only place in Ireland where armed police officers patrol the streets 24 hours a day to deter internecine feuds and other disorderly conduct.
For about six weeks of the year, the town’s population swells to 4,500 from 1,500, and ostentatious displays of wealth are common. Expensive sport utility vehicles create gridlock in the narrow streets and alleyways, trailers and mobile homes clutter the sidewalks and young men speed through the surrounding country lanes in their sports cars.
A long history of violence between clans hangs like a cloud over the travelers. When they congregate at Christmas, brawls involving knives, cudgels, iron bars and screwdrivers have been known to erupt, and traffic violations multiply.
Over the past couple of decades, the travelers have bought or built houses in Rathkeale. The rows of extravagant, mock-Georgian mansions that have sprung up just off the main street are boarded up for most of the year but come alive around Christmas when their owners return, mainly from Britain but also from increasingly far-flung places.
But in recent years, a growing body of evidence has fueled suspicions that not all of the money flowing into Rathkeale comes from strictly legal transactions and that the property deals are a form of money laundering.
“People won’t say a bad word against them in public because they’re afraid of getting a bottle through the window — or something a lot worse,” said one Rathkeale resident, who did not want to be named. “Who really believes tarring driveways or fixing gutters gets you those massive houses or flashy cars?”
“You would get the impression it’s not safe to walk out your door, but it’s simply not the case,” the local butcher said. “The vast majority of travelers are very good people. There are a few bad apples, but that’s the same in every part of society.”
But he also said that he might as well close his shop earlier than usual because the sheer concentration of outsiders was enough to deter year-round residents from coming out.
“Locals from the surrounding areas prefer to shop in the mornings because they know the lads are still sleeping off the night before,” he said.
Oh. Travelers.
Says it all.
America’s Debt Challenge
World aghast at fiscal cliff mess
By Mark Thompson @CNNMoney December 21, 2012: 11:04 AM ET
Stocks fell around the world as prospects for a U.S. budget deal faded
LONDON (CNNMoney)
Fiscal cliff was one of Collins dictionary’s words of 2012, along with Gangnam Style and Eurogeddon. But those who hoped the phrase would be redundant next year might be disappointed.
Washington is winding down for the holidays without a plan to prevent New Year tax increases and spending cuts that could send the U.S. into recession.
Lawmakers will have a last chance this year to cut a deal on the fiscal cliff when they return on Dec 27.
With much of Europe, and Japan, already in recession and China yet to return to the double-digit expansion of recent years, failure would spell trouble for the world economy as it struggles to return to sustainable growth after the financial crisis.
World markets reacted accordingly on Friday. Stocks fell, the euro was weaker and oil prices were off as investors sought safe haven assets such as the dollar and gold and took some profits after recent gains fueled in part by hopes of a deal between President Obama and Congress.
But the failure of House Speaker John Boehner to muster enough support among his Republican members for a “Plan B”, including tax hikes for those earning over $1 million a year, was linked by financial market players to the doomsday Mayan prophesy that the world would end on Friday.
…
How will going off the ‘fiscal cliff’ affect the U.S.?
Even if no deal is reached, doomsday predictions are overblown, many say.
Associated Press
December 26, 2012
You’ve heard the predictions for what happens if the country goes over the “fiscal cliff”: The economy will shrink, nervous consumers will stop spending, and the stock market will plunge.
But those doomsday predictions are overblown, some professional investors say.
Even if Congress and the White House can’t reach a deal, the higher taxes and lower government spending that would follow would kick in only gradually. A recession is not guaranteed.
What’s much more important to the stock market, the experts say, are economic fundamentals.
“History has shown that the economy is going to do what the economy is going to do,” said Scott Carmack, co-portfolio manager at Leader Capital in Portland, Ore. “And politics don’t create some sort of disaster.”
Regardless of what happens, the “fiscal cliff” — sweeping tax increases and government spending cuts set to take effect Jan. 1 — is going to dominate the headlines and the market for the next week.
What’s going to happen in the stock market between now and the budget deadline of Dec. 31?
The market hates uncertainty. If there’s no deal, expect stocks to fall.
“We always knew we were going to get some volatility here,” Carmack said. “Depending on leaders in Washington to come to some kind of agreement is like pulling teeth.”
Besides, there are other incentives for people to pull money out of the market. Some professional investors are selling to lock in gains for the year. Others are selling because investments could be taxed at higher rates next year.
“It’s been a pretty good year in the market,” said Peter Tuz, co-manager of the Chase Growth and Chase Mid Cap Growth mutual funds in Charlottesville, Va. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index is up more than 13% in 2012.
“People might look at that uncertainty and say, ‘I’m happy with that, and now I’ll take some money aside, and sell,’” he said.
What about after Jan. 1?
Deal or no deal, many investors don’t expect the effects of the fiscal impasse to linger in the stock market for too long.
One big reason is that everyone has seen it coming for months.
“We’re not overly concerned,” said David Hefty, chief executive of Hefty Wealth Partners in Auburn, Ind. “The thing to keep in mind is that what hurts investors, what hurts the market, are things that are unexpected.”
He added: “Everybody has 2008 burned into their minds. They think the ‘fiscal cliff’ will be the next 2008 event. A 2008 event is when nobody sees it coming, and everyone is blindsided. Nobody’s going to be blindsided by this.”
Hefty said he’d watch whether the Federal Reserve continues its policy of pumping money into the economy, and fundamentals such as housing and unemployment, to decide how to invest in 2013.
“We’re looking at two key things that matter the most,” he said. “The ‘fiscal cliff’ isn’t one of them.”
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Fiscal cliff have you concerned?
Don’t worry: A closely-watched pot never boils.
Editorial: Where’s the urgency on fiscal cliff?
Published: 25 December 2012 09:12 PM
If your paycheck is a little thinner in January, don’t fault your boss. Blame rests squarely at the ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Congress, which returns to session tomorrow, and President Barack Obama have about five days to agree on a stopgap measure to avert massive tax hikes and spending cuts on New Year’s Day.
If they don’t act, most Americans will pay at least $2,000 more in federal taxes next year. Medicare providers would receive payment cuts, some of which could hit vulnerable senior citizens with higher out-of-pocket costs.
For business owners, today’s paralyzing uncertainty over spending and tax policies could balloon into full-fledged economy-stifling retrenchment in spending and hiring, which in turn could rekindle another recession. Likewise, the military would be smacked with a 10 percent across-the-board cut that would hurt military families and programs.
And the negative impacts of gridlock don’t stop there. Global financial markets had counted on the Senate, House and White House coming to their senses with a deal — or at least a framework — for a broader agreement on taxes and spending early next year. Even after a compromise failed last week, investors avoided a widespread, confidence-rattling sell-off. However, if the new year begins without at least the hope of a deal, we can all expect one more hit on our bottom lines, as 401(k) accounts tank.
These dire consequences are avoidable if Congress and the White House somehow could seize victory from the jaws of defeat. Early last week, the two sides seemingly had made progress on a deficit reduction plan that included new revenue, spending cuts and entitlement changes. But that all fell apart when Democrats screamed about changes to entitlements and Speaker John Boehner was unable to get his own “Plan B” proposal through the House.
Ironically, the actual dollar gap between their positions is narrower than the ideological chasm; Boehner and the president were moving toward a tax cut for most Americans, an increase for the wealthiest and roughly $1 trillion in spending cuts. It’s philosophical rigidity that is holding the nation hostage; ideologues in each party prefer to play chicken with economic disaster rather than give an inch. Never mind that some sharing of the pain will be necessary to solve both long- and short-term debt issues.
The sort of brinksmanship playing out in Washington is especially dangerous now that the fiscal cliff deadline is only a few clock ticks away. Inaction is not an option, nor is it leadership. This intransigence will hurt average Americans and send another signal that the nation’s lawmakers are better at talking big than governing well. Congress must end this nonsensical impasse now before it mires the nation in another economic crisis.
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Get set for homeowner bailouts unplugged in 2013. Renters, get ready to open your wallets in order to make underwater homeowners whole again.
POLITICS
Updated December 25, 2012, 9:44 p.m. ET
Refi Program Expansion Eyed
By NICK TIMIRAOS
The Obama administration is considering expanding its mortgage-refinancing programs to include borrowers whose mortgages aren’t backed by the government and who owe more than their homes are worth, according to people familiar with the discussions.
Such a move would benefit borrowers and provide a boost to the economy by unleashing cash that homeowners could spend elsewhere. But one proposal being considered would also transfer potentially riskier loans held by private investors into the taxpayer-supported mortgage giants Fannie Mae (FNMA -2.29%) and Freddie Mac (FMCC -2.37%).
About 22% of all homes with a mortgage, or around 10.8 million homes, were worth less than the outstanding balance at the end of June, according to CoreLogic. That number has fallen from 12.1 million at the end of last year as home prices have picked up, but around 10% of all homeowners with a mortgage are still deeply underwater.
Fannie and Freddie own or insure about half of all home loans, and most underwater borrowers with their backing can refinance to get a lower mortgage rate as long as they are current on their loans. That initiative has benefited holders of more than 330,000 underwater mortgages through October this year, up from around 60,000 in all of 2011. “It has been unbelievably successful,” said Scott Simon, who heads the mortgage-backed securities group at Pacific Investment Management Co., or Pimco, a unit of Allianz SE (ALV.XE -0.09%).
Officials at the Treasury Department and the White House now would like to include borrowers who have been locked out because their loans aren’t backed by the firms. Those loans are held by private lenders or investors, and some of them were issued by subprime lenders and bundled into securities by Wall Street firms.
Because such a move would transfer billions of dollars of these mortgages to the government-backed mortgage companies, it would require congressional authorization to temporarily change Fannie’s and Freddie’s charters. Under the proposal, Fannie and Freddie would be allowed to charge higher rates to borrowers in order to compensate for the risk of guaranteeing refinanced loans that are underwater and more likely to result in default. Some economists argue that those borrowers could be relatively good credit risks because they have been paying their mortgages through the financial crisis, and that Fannie and Freddie could turn a profit on such mortgages while helping the housing market.
But industry officials say such a program would work only if banks were given immunity from having to buy back any loans they refinance that subsequently default, and that such a shield would boost the risk for the taxpayer-backed companies.
Fannie and Freddie “have already proved that they really weren’t good at pricing higher-risk assets” during the housing bubble, said David Stevens, chief executive of the Mortgage Bankers Association. “What gives us the belief they can price it better today?” Allowing the firms to “reload up their balance sheets…will ultimately be a taxpayer expense,” he said.
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