The Housing Bubble

I’ve lost interest in snark unless it’s a real knee-slapper - cited article wasn’t. I’ve been reading the internet too long, I guess.
I am more interested in facts to back up statements like
the housing bubble in Iceland is alive and well (again,) and that (again,) it’s operating for the benefit of the international banking community

No. I wouldn’t.

Here’s one for you to answer, Joe:

Does paying for other people’s abortions prevent unwanted pregnancies?

The focus of the abortion debate hasd always been wrong, imo. Few people LIKE the idea of abortion (maybe 1-2 percent most), even if they support the right to choose.
The debate should start there.

Abortion is not a legal issue.

It is a moral issue.

The answer to this dilemma lies in morality, not legality. Much as most things do in life.

Legalities often result in the loss of liberty, which is what presumably ahansen rails against on this issue (rightly so).

Too many laws and too little ethics is the source of much of our dissatisfaction these days - regardless of where you stand on a given issue.

Think about it for a while, and you likely find it to be true.

A good friend of mine had to drill that into my head for a while. It took me a year or two to really internalize it.

Good friends that will kick you in the behind (and vice versa) are hard to find and impossible to replace. It wasn’t a law that expanded my view of the world.

We are a nation of laws, not morals.

If we allowed people to argue moral reasons against government policies, the government would be worse run than it already is.

“Does paying for other people’s abortions prevent unwanted pregnancies?”

Paying for their birth control does result in fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/05/study-free-birth-control-significantly-cuts-abortion-rates/

http://news.yahoo.com/free-birth-control-means-drastic-drops-unplanned-pregnancies-224643988.html

While I don’t argue your position (you are correct), it’d be therefore unwise for anything to think the problem will get solved.

Laws won’t solve what in reality is a moral issue.

The decades before 1973 proved it, as have the decades after.

Morals are based on social practicality.

Personally, I support mandatory birth control for people who rely on the public weal to feed their children, but find the Israeli government’s selective enforcement a mite hypocritical — to say the least.

“Personally, I support mandatory birth control for people who rely on the public weal to feed their children, but find the Israeli government’s selective enforcement a mite hypocritical — to say the least.”

I agree with both points. Since they already have children, such a policy would not prevent them from forming families. Those with a religious objection to birth control can rely on their church to support them.

I am not sure hypocritical is the word I would use to describe the Israeli policy. Reprehensible works for me.

“The decades before 1973 proved it, as have the decades after.”

I am not sure what you are saying. We were moral as a country before 1973? I find Jim Crow to be morally wrong.

“Paying for their birth control does result in fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions.”

I’d like to see some TV commercials featuring promiscuous “flat tummy” hotties buying off-the-shelf birth control, and later seen laying a yardstick across their hips checking for clearance. Bring birth control and out-of-wedlock sex out in the daylight, remove the stigma.

I think my point was the irony. And the blatant racism as the country sends its “settlers” to breed along the borderline.

There’s nothing wrong with “marginal” companies that produce or offer “marginal” product for “marginal” use.

If you think about it for a moment, there are companies that offer or produce “marginal” product in ALL industries and categories, not just retail.

A doc-in-the-box outfit an example of a medicore supplier in medicine.

HP and Dell are mediocre suppliers of computers and IT.

Mediocre product is offered by lots of companies. Oftentimes, this is as intended - and provides what is needed to the extend needed.

Oftentimes, “good enough” truly is good enough.

So why the never-ending derision directed solely at “good enough” retailers such as KMart, Wal-Mart and Sears?

HP and Dell are mediocre suppliers of computers and IT.

What’s that? I can’t hear you over the roar of my HP laptop fan. (Inaccessible! Just blow compressed air at it to not fix it.)

Because they are capitalizing on the quality of the past in order to hoodwink us into paying the same price for the medocrity of the present.*

Wal-Mart does not make good hammers. They never did and they never pretended that they did. Customers know that and therefore make their own choices. Sears Craftsman, however, made very good hammers. Made in the USA, with a warranty. If/when Sears goes down, Craftsman will be sold to a vulture and passed on to a factory in China somewhere. The hammers will be “good enough,” but they will charge a little more, and people who don’t follow the news will pay a little more thinking that it’s the quality of old Craftsman.

This is also known as “lying.” And should be derided.

————
*on a side note, this exact concept can be applied to mortgage backed securities. And to Hewlitt-Packard too.

If you need a hammer simply to hang pictures and do light work, WalMart hammers are just fine.

Again, a “marginal” product sold on the chreap for “marginal” use. Many shoppers do not need a better hammer.

If they did, Sears would do brisker business.

But people do not need Craftsman hammers. Few people put hammers to the task these days.

They’re too busy hitting buttons on PDAs and trying to figure out how to use poorly designed IT systems.

Perhaps a good, solid Craftsman hammer, employed by enough people, would solve endless IT problems at the workplace.

You’re confusing the issue, MacBeth, and doing a poor job of it. Any reader or lurker on HBB knows full well that not everybody needs a good hammer. But for those who DO, they should be able to buy a good hammer, not a mediocre hammer that is stamped with a brand name that used to make good hammers. It has nothing to do with what you need and everything to do with being bait-and-switched.

How would you feel if you bought a BMW for a BMW price and it drove like a Corolla? Well I guess you’re SOL. A Corolla is all you need to get from A to B.

TiBone or a Estwing are excellent framing hammers…For anything else, a walmart hammer should do just fine…

Anyone who needs a good hammer doesn’t buy a CrapsMan.

Seriously Oxy/Alpo…… you really do make shit up wherever and whenever you think you can get away with it.

TiBone or a Estwing are excellent framing hammers…For anything else, a walmart hammer should do just fine…

Another reason why I like the HBB. If you want to know what a good hammer really is, start talking about crummy hammers and where not to buy them.

I am not confusing the issue, oxide. You are.

As fewer people need good hammers, it’s only natural that there will be fewer manufactured.

I don’t understand how that is confusing.

Want a good hammer? Go to Sears. If there’s not a Sears near you, hop online.

Don’t want to wait? Too bad. High quality products often aren’t available at retail. Too costly to stock and warehouse. Just ask Sears.

The Internet is the place for specialty shopping. Before the internet, it was all about catalog/specialty ordering.

Back then, you might wait 6-8 weeks for what you ordered.

Now, you might wait 10-20 days for internet purchases.

Wal-Mart does not make good hammers. They never did and they never pretended that they did. Customers know that and therefore make their own choices. Sears Craftsman, however, made very good hammers. Made in the USA, with a warranty. If/when Sears goes down, Craftsman will be sold to a vulture and passed on to a factory in China somewhere. The hammers will be “good enough,” but they will charge a little more, and people who don’t follow the news will pay a little more thinking that it’s the quality of old Craftsman.

Years ago, I bought a Toshiba DVD player. It was very highly rated by Consumer Reports. I had various DVD types, +R, -R, etc that my humble DVD player could not play. Well, the Toshiba was even worse. I then looked on Amazon. Turns out they changed the internals mid-year, but kept the name the same. And the post-change player was utter garbage. It had all the fingerprints of a too-clever-by-half executive. Net result - higher profit for that quarter, lower profits overall, and people like me who now look at the Toshiba name as suspect.

Quality hammers were replaced by the affordable nail gun.

Yes - and all the more reason it is difficult to find a quality hammer.

Neuromance -

As I need to, I am looking to replace my home equipment with Brother products wherever possible.

Yeah, the old typewriter company. THAT Brother.

A few years ago, I bought a Brother printer from Fry’s - the machine is by far the best I’ve ever purchased. Costs more (maybe $50 tops), but boy, does that thing ever run like a dream.

And - get this - the printer is designed solely to print!

It doesn’t fax, it doesn’t print photos in hi-def color, it doesn’t scan, it doesn’t talk to you, it doesn’t receive text messages.

It doesn’t serve you sh*t on a shingle, either. No menu codes to jam-up or drive you nuts.

Thus, it’s a great piece of equipment. It does one thing, and does a fine job of it. It does take printing requests via wireless. That’s it though as far as accoutrements.

I’m looking to buy more Brother products. Hopefully, they’ll continue to survive and make a slew of one-function products that work admirably. I love that.

TiBone or a Estwing are excellent framing hammers

You can buy an Estwing hammer from walmart- online only.

How would you feel if you bought a BMW for a BMW price and it drove like a Corolla? Well I guess you’re SOL. A Corolla is all you need to get from A to B.

I might feel pretty good. Does this mean it wouldn’t be in the shop every few months for expensive repairs?

Quality hammers were replaced by the affordable nail gun ??

Yes but only is some phases of the framing…First, they are heavy and can be dangerous in that you are constantly dragging the hose with it…I have put a 16-penny through my finger before and nailed my shoe to the subfloor so these nailguns although very helpful is some of the production phases can’t help in many others such as rolling trusses…

Nail guns are made for all size jobs these days.

From framing to upholstery.

Nail guns are made for all size jobs these days ??

Yes they are but the Framing nail guns are quite heavy particularly when you add the dragging of the hose into the equation…An alternative is the Paslode cordless which uses compressed combustable gas as the energy… Outstanding tool and very helpful…Just can’t do production with it…It can’t stay up…

You guys think I use a hammer to drive nails??

How would you feel if you bought a BMW?”

You have to live somewhere.

I owned a BMW but, thankfully, never lived in it! -

“What’s that? I can’t hear you over the roar of my HP laptop fan.”

+1 LOL!

If you want a framing hammer buy a Vaughan or a Hart.

Or they continue to prop up failing companies for a bit, taking up taxpayer money to buy off lobbyists and unions, or using taxpayer money to start up new ventures that will never work ??

Obama play book…

Both Obama and Romney are wrong, scdave. Don’t be so one-minded in your viewspoints, please. Thanks.

Been going on for the last 30 years. (my god has it been that long?)

“Corporate raiders”.

“Raiders of the Last Fart” is what we used to call them.

Also “Vulture Capitalists”

(How could I forget than one?)

Obama play book…

Both Obama and Romney are wrong, scdave. Don’t be so one-minded in your viewspoints, please. Thanks ??

What the hell is that suppose to mean ?? I did not know that Obama was a venture capitalists that vultured corporations prior to becoming president and thats what the thread was discussing right ??

“Seems like they milk these companies for a bit and then take the cash and start up new ventures when the old dog dies”

So get off your condescending horse please…Thanks…

This really is the Romney playbook.

You can takeover a company and run it at a loss for a surprisingly long time. You can sell off brand names, physical assets, foreign affiliates, etc. You can also get restructuring concessions and keep the company in business longer.

Even if you’re losing money, it doesn’t mean you can’t pay out large sums of money to controlling parties.

Hi, joe. (btw, I’m glad that we’re one and the same).

Obama’s current behavior and Romney’s past behavior aren’t all that far removed.

Obama is taking over the government, which, like big corporations, also can run for a loss for a surprisingly long time.

The government is throwing good money after bad, disrupting markets at will. Disrupting people’s lives, outsourcing work (and money) to higher priced contractors, solar companies, etc. Government is actively siphioning money out of the economy that can be better used elsewhere.

Perhaps I should say “insourcing” work in ways that represent mal-investment.

To me it’s all the same.

Corporations outsource work overseas to profit.

Government deliberately insources work in ways that are costly and inefficient so as to profit (i.e. expand its power and influence). Government nearly always seeks to expand its share of “profit”.

I hope that better explains things. I don’t know how else to say it.

ahansen’s post of Brown’s statements a few days ago represents a breakthrough in thought to some extent (nothing new in his statements, but hasn’t been said in decades).

I like what he said, and I like that it was ahansen who posted it.

Even if you’re losing money, it doesn’t mean you can’t pay out large sums of money to controlling parties.
This is also happening in a MAJOR way to an entire country I know & love.
It’s not just a business phenomenon.

Hey, VA! Long time no post! Welcome back!

Thanks AZ! Been lurking from time to time, but been slack on posting!

None of that matters from an end-user standpoint.

It IS interesting, though, that the very industry responsible for encouraging and creating the just-in-time mess is the same one that is contributing mightily to screwing up the entire concept.

As I said, many IT companies need to go belly-up.

They suck.

So does IT management. Apparently, they are simply overpaid order-takers.

It’s interesting to me how so much money is spent in and on that industry to create software and systems that actually hamper work being done in the trenches- and in all industries.

So much “technology” is being forced down people’s throats.
Much of it needlessly complicated.

It’d be nice if said technology would actually help the user and not impede them (in other words, not make their day a pain-in-the-arse).

I know that if I were a CEO/CIO, all IT people I would hire or contract with would have to actually use their latest and greatest “technology” for a month at my place of business and in real-life end-use conditions before I’d pay them 100% of contracted amount.

MacBeth, your generalizations are just that..generalizations.

Many ‘IT companies’ use their own product internally.

At my current job, we use our own product extensively - for tracking our bugs in the product itself. For evaluating our own financial performance. Our CEO, VP of Marketing, Chief Development Officer all use our product extensively. And we, the employees, see that in every meeting.

At another employer several years ago, we used our product (a graphical programming environment/language), to build a derivative graphical programming environment for kids/a toy (think LEGO). I doubt my experiences are the only ones along these lines.

But he has the “being forced down out throats” part right.

I really, REALLY don’t need a coffee maker connected to the Internet. Nor any damn thing else besides my communication devices.

I really, REALLY don’t need the improved version of software that now has 5 steps for what used to take 2 steps. Seriously, WTF?

While backends have incredibly powerful and clever, user interfaces have become something designed by the mentally ill.

drummin’ J-

Sure, they are definite generalizations.

That said, using your own product in your own workplace is one thing. Using it at the customer workplace is quite another.

Has your CEO sat down with your product on the cubicle/factory floor for 2-4 weeks to see how it runs at the location in which it is planned to be used?

Can your CEO do the job expected of the customer’s employees by using your product? Really? I’d like to see your CEO prove it while I (their customer) watch. And I’d like to watch everyday, over a period of a few weeks.

For you to determine whether your product is sufficient for customer use, it should be used by you first at the customer location to conduct their business, not yours. PERIOD.

So, for every customer, the CEO should spend 2 weeks using our product at their location. Let’s see now, how could that possibly work?

It’s up to the customer to determine whether the product is sufficient for their use, not the producer. Certainly the producer, if they care to do well, should understand the work their targeted customers are doing and ensure the product solves their problem. I would argue this is accomplished by actually using the product for the task we expect the customers to do - which is what happens in our organization.

Your expectations are way out of line with reality. If the customer wants to be sure it actually works for them in their use case, then they should either work with their direct sales rep to prove it out, or test themselves as part of evaluation of the product.

None of that matters from an end-user standpoint.

I agree. But software vendors are always under pressure to upgrade their wares, even if that means breaking them.

I really, REALLY don’t need the improved version of software that now has 5 steps for what used to take 2 steps. Seriously, WTF?

The thing about software is that unlike other products, it doesn’t wear out. So the only way to get customers to upgrade is by forcing them. So you eventually stop supporting version X, which forces customers to upgrade. Of course, you add new features and change things so the customer doesn’t feel totally ripped off. Of course, these don’t always work so well.

But software complexity has grown and QE/QA hasn’t kept pace. In most cases, test suites, in order to be truly effective, need to dwarf in size the code they test. And no one wants to spend that kind of money, not when customers have been trained to expect endless patches for the software.

user interfaces have become something designed by the mentally ill.

Latest version of itunes. #$%@*&

Has your CEO sat down with your product on the cubicle/factory floor for 2-4 weeks to see how it runs at the location in which it is planned to be used?

Can your CEO do the job expected of the customer’s employees by using your product? Really? I’d like to see your CEO prove it while I (their customer) watch. And I’d like to watch everyday, over a period of a few weeks.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a customer willing to pay enough for the product to demand that level of testing. In the end, we do what we’re paid to do.

“It’s up to the customer to determine whether the product is sufficient for their use, not the producer”

Not in your line of business, it isn’t. As In Colorado said, end users are forced into upgrades that they do not need, want, or that disrupt their business by making conducting business a royal pain in the ass.

If that’s your approach, then I think you ought to be forced into buying new home appliances every three years, with each new appliance loaded with increasingly needless crap to ensure that it doesn’t work as well as its predecessor.

Then when it doesn’t work, YOU get to spend an extra two hours scrubbing your clothes clean in the sink.

“Your expectations are way out of line with reality.

No, they are not. Providing the PAYING customer with what they want is how business operates. The days are quickly coming to a close when any IT schmo can design/program any piece of crap software and get away with it.

If your CEO’s arrogance is typical of the IT business, then perhaps it’s best that IT jobs are outsourced overseas with increased frequency.

I’d much rather deal with an IT guy in Malawi who is willing to provide what I need than with some jerk in Austin or San Francisco.

If that’s your approach, then I think you ought to be forced into buying new home appliances every three years, with each new appliance loaded with increasingly needless crap to ensure that it doesn’t work as well as its predecessor.

———-
Sounds pretty much right when I’ve been looking at ovens, stoves, and dishwashers. God what horrible pieces of crap.

Textbook.

Office was bad at the beginning. Then they changed it and made it worse! Rather than improve it, they now force you to buy it.

The IT field is pretty slipshod overall. Relative to quality as an industry, I’d rank it at about a KMart or TJ Maxx.

The different between lower-end retail and the IT/computer field, though, is that the former doesn’t make you use their lousy products every day in the workplace.

IT and software in general could be a lot better. But development and test are expensive and illegal aliens in the Home Depot parking lot can’t do it no matter how much time you give them. How much do you want to spend?

Understood.

But why is it so expensive? It’s not as if there’s high overhead costs other than staff.

Cut their pay or move the jobs offshore to employees who might actually give a damn whether their products are effective for end users.

Costs may also be reduced if the goal wasn’t to introduce unnecessary “new and improved” products every 18-24 months.

Perhaps rather than wasting time on unnecessary R&D, the resources could be better spent on paying customers, who might pay IT folks more money (share of profit maybe?) if the products actually worked.

Maybe IT should go the “pay for performance” route. Your stuff works well and saves my company money? Great! Here’s a $20K bonus for all IT folks who worked on the project. (And thanks for kicking tail with a product that works so well.)

Your product doesn’t save me money? It causes me and my staff aggravation? Oh, well. No bonus for you.

But why is it so expensive? It’s not as if there’s high overhead costs other than staff.

It takes a LOT of man power. Say you have a project with 3 million lines of code. First, it needs to be unit tested. That could easily take another 10 million lines of unit test code. Then there is functional testing, which can be automated but also takes a lot of code. Then there is integration testing.

But where things really get hairy is when you get into maintenance. Changing code can be a lot more expensive than writing new code as it is a point where defects can be inadvertently introduced. It requires peer reviews, modifying test code, extensive regression testing, etc.

And then there is the schedule, which is often created without taking into account how lowng it actually takes to complete the project.

So what happens is that corners are cut: no peer reviews, test code is abandoned, etc.

Cut their pay or move the jobs offshore to employees who might actually give a damn whether their products are effective for end users.

Uh, what do you think has been happening for the past 10+ years? Everything is being offshored to places like India. And in most cases, quality has suffered.

If you were pouring hot tar and nailing shingles to a roof, or working on cars, you might find their clothes very beneficial.

Sears has become a niche supplier - not a bad thing at all, if management understands it.

Sears is not about fashion. It hasn’t been for years. It’s largely a supplier to industrial and industrial-lite consumers.

Sears has a definite, beneficial role to play in the marketplace.

And an increasingly unusual one.

If they aggressively promoted themselves as a sturdy, reliable supplier of “old time” equipment/suppliers of “old time” quality, they might be around for several more decades.

they might be around for several more decades ??

Believe it or not, the craftsman brand is not their biggest asset…The biggest asset is their real estate holdings…They own many of their locations…I do not know how to pull this stock market data but there was a time a while back that Sears stock was moving due to a hostile take over rumor because of the potential of liquidating their real estate holdings…

This I agree with. Sears would have done better by dumping the “softer side of Sears” like casual clothing and kitchen towels and concentrated on house-brand tools and applicances and lawn mowers (plus work coveralls and steel-toed boots). Sears stores should be half the size.

Craftsman=worst tools ever.

I have been slowly selling my Snap-On tools from my previous career. It kills me, because they are beautiful tools. Can’t justify storing stuff I never use, though.

I have been slowly selling my Snap-On tools from my previous career. It kills me, because they are beautiful tools. Can’t justify storing stuff I never use, though.

Calm down, Slim. Calm down. You know you want to buy those Snap-On tools, but calm down. Wait until you can afford them.

Darn that tool lust! When it comes over me, it’s hard to control it.

Mine are all the old stuff, too.

I haven’t bought a Craftsman tool in 15-20 years; I already own what I need.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Craftsman quality was in decline, however. Sad, but not surprising. There’s not enough demand at retail to support the quality. Better go online, oxide.

sc dave - yeah, I knew that, but forgot about it. Thanks. If I remember correctly, the real estate holdings played a key role in justifying the Sears/KMart deal.

I’m thinking out loud here, so I could very well be wrong…but in retrospect, with Sears land holdings, it would have been a much better move had Sears become a partner/in-store suppliers of quality tools with a Home Depot or a Lowes.

Construction was the market Sears should have went all-out for.

Sears could still do this - as a provider of suitable clothing and specialty hand tools via Home Depot.

How has Menards survived? Talk about a hodge-podge business. Anyone?

Lastly, Target and WalMart aren’t KMart competitors these days. Big Lots is. Ever been in a Big Lots? Much like the KMarts of old, but with a considerably smaller store footprint.

Doesn’t Big Lots sell mostly closeout items?

I’ve bought cargo shorts from Sears! You all are dissin’ my fashion!

Also, as someone who uses Craftsman tools for working on things like pinball machines, arcade machines, and building benchtop CNC machines I have never had issues. I’m not trying to break loose bolts on old crusty cars, but have done some routine maintenance on my 12 year old car without issue?

some routine maintenance on my 12 year old car without issue
ALL my routine maintenance involves breaking off rusty nuts & bolts, especially in anything that old.
I buy my cargo pants from Kmart. I used to wear cargo shorts to work around the house but now that I routinely use angle grinders to do my routine demolition maintenance chores, I always wear long pants, don’t like those red hot bits of molten metal on my bare legs.
I buy convertible cargo shorts / pants at REI, 100% nylon, these are much more expensive, but are extremely comfortable in all weather conditions and are very easy to wash. Unfortunately they don’t hold up well during activities involving wrenching, hammering, cutting and burning.

That is another sinking ship ??

The whole small retail industry is a sinking ship…Big-Box-Stores, Amazon, Ebay, UPS/FEDX and Regional Malls are going to control most of it…It has been said that 50% of the retail buildings in this country could be bulldozed and we would not even miss it..Based on what I see, even in my prosperous area I believe this to be true…Even more so in the smaller markets…

I bought two flash memory devices last week from my local Frys; a 64GB USB thumb drive for $30 and a 32GB micro-SDHC for $20. Unbelievable how those have dropped in price over the last year. At this point I just can’t see the price dropping much more. I loaded the USB with 43 of my all time favorite movies and plugged it into my Blu-ray player so now I have a complete film library ready for instant replay, everything from Forbidden Planet to The Matrix.
Frys rocks.

1TB thumb drives already exist. They’ll be $30 sooner than you think.

Carl, I have seen 128GB thumb drives at Frys but no 1TB yet. Is the classic disk drive going to disappear? Looking at my system I could run 100% of my programs from a 64GB high speed partition and everything else could be run from a solid state drive I guess. USB 3.0 max is 5GBit which is still slower than SATA-3 max of 6GBit but pretty darn fast.

When you say classic disk drive do you mean rotating media? If so, it seems to be going the way of tape. Which, not disappearing anytime soon, but specializing in big, cheap, and slow. SSDs including PCIe storage is coming on strong for high performance. USB3 is fast for USB, but not in comparison.

I think a lot of us would be best off with a small fast SSD for the OS and critical programs, and then a big cheap slow traditional drive for stuff like video.

Atlanta is my closest. I’ve asked Fry’s to come to Va but nothing so far. I’ve been to the one in Vegas as well as two of them in the San Jose area.

There is a place called Microcenter in DC that might be similar, I’m not sure.

MicroCenter in DC is a good place, but it’s not nearly as comprehensive or varied as Fry’s.

cmon bro

Its obvious you have to have buyers. But to get buyers you have to have the ability to get product cheap in the retail market these days. Walmart kicked their @SS on the distribution side.

It’s apparently not obvious to you.
You think that having the lowest price is always going to get you the Buyers. As I pointed out, that is not true.

If that were true, then 7-11, Kwik-mart, and ALL the other convenience stores would have been put out of business.
But go on believing that whatever you write is true.
It’s obvious, isn’t it.

nothing price cant fix dude.

Not to mention Nordstrom, Macy’s, Bloomingdales, and the other higher end stores.

It depends on the type of retail and even then different buyers will have different priorities.

I was looking for a book for my 3 year old nephew as a gift. I could have gone to B&N and gotten a discount. I could have messed around on Amazon and gotten a discount. What I did was go to the best toy store in the area that has a huge, well-edited book section that is divided up by topic and age range so I could specifically look just at the 15 or so picture books that were truck themed. Had my selection in 5 minutes, used the cell phone to check with his parents that he didn’t already have it and walked out with a full price book. I rewarded the store for making my shopping trip easy by giving it the full price on the book.

Now, if I were buying 10 or 15 books and other items, I would probably look for a discount. If I were completely broke and needed to pinch every penny, I would go to a yard sale. If knew exactly what I wanted ahead of time I would have looked for a discount and/or free shipping on-line. But I didn’t know what I wanted. I had to find it. I only wanted one and any discount was going to save me less than $5, so I went to the place that would help me find something good that I didn’t already know about. That is a particular kind of retail, but also a particular customer. You can’t create a multinational retail empire on those customers, but you can run a small local chain of toys/kids book store on that customer, especially in a wealthy county.

And the book is his new favorite.

ShopKo bailed out pf Colorado years ago. Which was too bad, as their stores were nice and clean, unlike KMart

Yeah, love it. Nice, clean, and quiet..

My ‘ten percent’ is relative to a full year’s pay. But cramming this into six months would make it feel like a twenty-percent hit in take-home pay. California state employees already went through this starting a few years back (at least those whose positions weren’t eliminated).

20 percent pay cut in the cards?
Monday - 1/28/2013, 2:00am EST
By Mike Causey

Hoping for a buyout this year? Would you gladly take early or regular retirement immediately if offered a before-deductions payment of $25,000. If the answer is “yes,” then good luck with that.

The odds of you being hit with a pay cut, of up to 20 percent, are greater than your chances of a buyout.

During the early years of the current recession, it was not unusual for private-sector workers to take temporary pay cuts (of a few months to a year) ranging from 5 to 20 percent. People continued to work their regular five-day shifts, but were paid less. Even unionized groups opted for the temporary pay cut rather than layoffs. Now, temporary pay cuts may be coming to the federal workforce.
…

The FedGov workers will complain, but they know it’s even harsher in the private sector, so they’ll grin and bear it. For one thing, in the private sector, temporary pay cuts tend to become permanent pay cuts.

…and pensions an almost mythical creature.

There is only one drawback: So far, none of the articles I have seen discuss any cutback in workload, only in work hours.

If this turns out as it did for CA State employees, then fedgov workers will get paid 20% less for six months to do the same work in 80% of the time as before. I guess you could argue it will make the government more efficient if they pull this off…

There is no way they will let people all pick Fridays or Mondays to take off. Days will be assigned depending on the needs of the department.

And to the extent that people can get stuff done in 80% of the time, it will happen. but it doesn’t always work that way. Expect back logs. That is why I warned people to renew passports and send in their tax returns (if a refund is expected) early. This could be a heck of a mess.

Three day weekends during spring and summer? Sounds like a blessing to me - if you can afford the pay cut

Denver is a toilet in the summertime.

While we don’t welcome the cuts, it will mean not driving to Telluride, Ouray, Silverton, Durango, but spending more time in Rocky Mountain National Park, Indian Peaks Wilderness, Lost Creek Wilderness, and other points closer to home.

In the time it takes a coastal elitist Beltway bedwetter to reach the Maryland state line, we are already on the chairlift or hiking above elevation 12,000 feet

What makes you think that the National Parks won’t be impacted by the sequester?

Do you know what its like to to get a first row parking space at a beach at noon on Tuesdays?…… I love it

There is no way they will let people all pick Fridays or Mondays to take off

Both you guys are using incomparable examples. K-mart lost market share to Walmart. The executives didn’t do a “RUN UP” the price on false reporting and imaginary sales volumes, fraudulent accounting and Ponzi schemes, while then liquidating their shares and moving out.

The executives needed to “re-make” the K-mart brand, just like JC Penney. Both have tried to compete in the new retail environment of “low prices”, and haven’t done well.

History is replete with failed businesses that did not necessarily involve the executives running a scam to run away with the money. Montgomery Wards. TG&Y. Neisner’s. Rexall Brands.
Western Auto. Tandy stores. Studebaker. Oldsmobile. Rambler. GrandWay. Maryland Fried Chicken. Biff-Burger.
What-a-Burger. I think Sonic is going down now, too.
It’s called Capitalism. Sometimes it’s just a changing marketplace. It’s not ALWAYS a criminal conspiracy.

The only Criminal Conspiracy is the FED.

Sonic’s burgers make Mickey D’s look good.

now thats a good laugh. Keep trusting the corporations and you are guaranteed to lose money.

Almost every example you just gave involved executive malfeaseance… at BEST.

Sonic has great commericals and good drinks. That’s a enough reason to keep them around.

“A dude with a face tattoo actually turned out to be dangerous.”

It’s too loud for American tastes.

Hard to imagine such a thing.

Orange works well enough for Home Depot. The brown, on the other hand…

Orange works well enough for Home Depot.

Ha ha.

“protestant”

It was on my (Lutheran) grandma’s kitchen placard, which is now in my sister’s possession. I always applied the interpretation you suggest above, especially given that my grandma was a fantastic multitasker who took good care of her property, including a large garden from which she fed her grandkids in exchange for a nominal amount labor from her son, my dad, and his kids. She definitely had no time available to sit around watching pots while waiting for them to boil.

But after more recently coming across the alternative version of the saying (”A closely-watched pot never boils over”), I became curious about the close similarity between these two expressions, and whether they may have evolved from a common ancestor, even though their meanings apparently differ.

This discussion is getting tiresome.

You’re wrong again Alpo/Oxy.

And worse yet, the population growth falls to new record lows with each passing year.

Nice try though.

This discussion is getting tiresome.

+1

The fact remains that the 20 year cohort following the 20 year baby boom cohort is 20% SMALLER. That’s alot of excess empty houses stacked ontop of the massive excess empty housing inventory we already have.

The fact remains that the 20 year cohort following the 20 year baby boom cohort is 20% SMALLER.

Yes, and they are known as Gen X. They are then followed by the “echo-boomers” aka Gen Y. Who alone outnumber the baby boomers, even before you add in Gen X and Z.

Ahhh… now we’re getting somewhere with your misrepresentations.

Your lies are dead in the water Alpo/Oxy.

So we’ve established that your earlier statement is a lie:

boomers do out number subsequent cohorts by huge margins.

Wrong again. Clearly you’re lying about the boomer demographic. Boomer demographic outn numbers all subsequent demographic cohorts.

YOU are misrepresenting it. You’re an established liar.

Sorry Pimp, but X and Y gen FAR outnumber the boomers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilylambert/2011/11/16/generation-x-time-to-reboot/2/

WRONG again.

And you’re combining cohorts 20 years apart. Now I’ve been fairly light handed with you but we can start your schooling too.

School?

School your own qutoe: “…all subsequent demographic cohorts.”

Gen X and Y far outnumber the boomers.

Period.

You combined cohorts.

You’re disigenuous.

Period.

Such irrationally intense hatreds are usually caused by something within the hater, not the hated.

Hence the enormous, continuing popularity of the Drudge Report

usually caused by something within the hater, not the hated ??

Exactly….

I have a coworker like that. In his case, he hates Boulder, CO, and with a real passion too.

I haven’t found that many who profess to hate Boulder who have actually spent much time there. Generally they hate what it represents…like it’s a local version of San Francisco or something. So that makes me figures SF is probably pretty nice, too :-).

Boulder is not gay enough to be a local San Francisco.

We love the Flatirons, Eldorado Canyon, the Boulder County Open Space park system, and the fact that it is one of (if not the) fittest places in the country.

Our objections to Boulder are its overpriced rents and real estate, and some of the attitudes of its residents, specifically the crunchy, COEXIST, hippie-dippie mindset.

So that makes me figures SF is probably pretty nice, too :-).

IIRC, San Francisco gets about 16 million visitors per year. Yeah, there are some gritty, urban neighborhoods, but overall this is one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever been to.

Venice, Italy and Paris are two other cities that come close, aesthetically.

overall this is one of the most beautiful cities and therefore would-be residents ought to pay any price, bear any burden, and never complain about it.

“Venice, Italy and Paris are two other cities that come close, aesthetically.”

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now this whopper belongs in the top delusions of all time.

nd therefore would-be residents ought to pay any price, bear any burden, and never complain about it.

They can always move to flyover.

We’re not questioning the aesthetics of living in San Francisco, just its unsustainable bubble economy. If the teachers there are nearly priced out now, where will the busboys and McDonalds workers live? Or will they just deal with 3 hour BART commutes to shuttle in to their McJobs?

“where will the busboys and McDonalds workers live?”

In their mother’s basement. (Why is it never their father’s basement?)

Sorry it still has not posted but you can find a story the famine in N. Korea on all the major sites.

Google is your friend for home plans. No matter what your needs are, chances are that there is a house plan already available to meet them.

Google? Yeah… Like you bidding and estimating expertise. Right from google.

The ability to bring a wheelchair into the bathroom and transfer to the toilet. Wheel in shower. Think about what you do in a bathroom. Now think about doing it if you can’t walk and/or need someone to help you do it. A standard bathroom with 3 feet (or less) of clearance between the toilet and/or sink and the wall isn’t going to do it.

Alpha, how did you remodel for mobility without knowing about the 5-foot clear circle for wheelchairs? That’s like Day 1 of Universal Design. A standard bath is 5×8, likely with a 28-inch door. A universal design bath size is something like 9×11 with a 36″ door. It’s a no-go unless you give up a bedroom.

As for “finding a house that is already like this,” good luck, at least in the inner burbs.

Exactly right oxide….Wider hallways also…

Alpha, how did you remodel for mobility without knowing

I didn’t, I bought a house from the (estate of) a wheelchair-bound woman. All she had done is put a ramp up to the front door, but there is a very large downstairs bathroom (~10×15) that was apparently added on to the house in the 70s. It’s got plenty of room for a helper, although with a traditional tub, it’s probably not truly wheelchair accessible. I will probably change the tub into a walk/roll-in shower stall if I need to.

As for “finding a house that is already like this,” good luck, at least in the inner burbs.

I guess I lucked out since it wasn’t a requirement when I bought the place, it just happened to be that way, here in the inner burbs. It doesn’t have 36′-wide doors, so it may not be truly up to ‘code’, but a woman lived here for decades in a wheelchair. I think she had help, at least towards the end.

So much for the meme that productive people are leaving California and only moochers are moving in.

Excuse me, I meant to say, filth rewards filth.

If I told you the “antics” of the illegal immigrant group in these parts, no one would believe it. Sex trafficking for the “migrant” workers is big biz. So what if some of the girls are mentall challenged.

The PTB want open borders and it does not matter what the people want. Anyone that objects to creating even more competition for jobs will be demonized as a racist etc.

Which administration gave out amnesty?
Which administration didn’t much care for open or closed borders as long as the mortage money was flowing?

And employment is first, not open borders. We know that from a few years ago. When construction jobs dried up, not only did workers not cross the border, they went back to the home country.

Administration? Oh I get it; you’re making this a partisan politics debate.

“you’re making this a partisan politics debate.”

Well, they’re trying. Sigh. Some people just can’t LET. IT. GO.

Every fiber of their being is so heavily invested in partisan politics, it’s driving them around the bend, lol. Because their old game is crumbling to bits around them and they haven’t found a new one to play. Cold Warriors.

I imagine this happened in Rome as well.

Gaius: Well, the aqueducts are out again.

Pontus: Yes, well, the Partricians wouldn’t vote the money for infrastructure, nyah, nyah, nyah.

How did the illegals get there to be employed?

This question sounded political — about open borders and employment policy and such — which is why I answered politically. Otherwise, I don’t know what you’re asking. Could you clarify?

It’s not about who caused the problem to begin with. It isn’t assigning blame. Both sides of the sh-tty, disgusting, slippery coin have a hand in how immigration got to the point it is at today.

It is about fixing the problem. Instead of doing this, the Government (again, as in both sides of the sh-tty, disgusting coin)came together to agree to do the opposite of fixing the problem.

Government Legitimacy = 0

But the meme is that business is perfectly able to police itself and that enforcement is not needed.

the meme is that business is perfectly able to police itself and that enforcement is not needed.
A vampire meme that refuses to die

Hey, I agree with you. You’re preaching to the choir here.

“(and stop talking about rape).”

You know, that’s kind of like telling someone not to think of the color red. In fact, they keep talking about the senators as the “Gang of 8″. I call it the “Gang Rape by 8″.

MacBeth, please stop making so much sense, you’ll confuse the voters vegetables.

We disagree with the coastal elitist, limosuine liberal, opinion makers who are responsible for 90% of the content in corporate media, and their Pavlovian viewers and readers.

As we disagree with the Earth is only 6,000 years old, legitimate rape, destroy the world to save Israel so we can hasten the Rapture, “family values” constituency.

But the above are the only two options on the ballot.

Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich, and Ron Paul are the only candidates we “believe” in that we’ve ever voted for. Why even bother voting anymore?

“Attack on family in Compton latest incident in wave of anti-black violence:”

Can’t access the link, but SSDD. There are a number of anti-illegal immigrantion “activists” who like to point out the anti-black crimes by illegal immigrants and other members of the Hispanic “community”. They pretend to get their panties all in a bunch about it, but most of the time it’s pretty much phony. All of a sudden you’ve got these folks caring what happens to blacks at the hands of Hispanics? Nah. It’s just weak a ploy to maybe rally blacks to the side of immigration restrictionism.

Not buying it. Nobody gave a shat about the drug cartels who supply the drugs and guns to heavily black urban areas. Nobody gave a shat about the Koreans, Muslims and Indians who operate the high priced convenience stores in those areas that take the residents for everything they’ve got.

And, if anything, there’s probably people who hope that maybe the Hispanics will be successful in their endeavors.

The Hispanics watched and learned from the “civil rights” movements and affirmative action and all the goodies that were granted to blacks in the US, adopting and refining the language, tactics, etc.

And don’t think that any black with half a brain cell to his name doesn’t understand this.

You are on a roll with the vocabulary lately. The post last week about pedophile priests “warming their wieners” was a real gem too

The Gangbanger 8 is about the sickest bunch of f*cks ever. Think I’m exaggerating their proclivities? Look at them, every last one of them. That is some seriously twisted stuff. Eh, well, it’s what happens when empires go into the crapper. The sh*t floats to the top.

LOL, each and every one of these turds envisions himself in faux paramilitary gear (like Shrub), with reflective aviator sunglasses, a cap with a gleaming black visor, standing on a balcony declaiming to the masses.

envisions himself in faux paramilitary gear
No one out-dressed Qadaffy. Legend has it that he once shot an Ottoman sofa and dressed up in its pelt.

“Legend has it that he once shot an Ottoman sofa and dressed up in its pelt.”

Oh, jeebus, tresho, you SO owe me a new keyboard, spat my drink all over it. R.O.T.F.L.M.A.O. Swear to jeebus, I laughed so hard I had to change my shorts. I dunno who y’are, but you made my day.

There are several major universities in the Bay Area. Stanford and UC Berkeley come to mind. It also has Silicon Valley, which contrary to the derision presented here, has companies that actually create real products beyond Facebook and Twitter.

What does San Francisco have other than its weather and hippie-dippie free love to pump up its bubble?

7 (miles) X 7 surrounded by ocean and bay and NIMBY’s who block the building of more housing.

For the past two decades, San Francisco has only averaged 1,500 to 2,000 new units of housing per year. Last year, only 269 new units went onto the market.

“What does San Francisco have other than its weather and hippie-dippie free love to pump up its bubble?”

Oakland.

One of the best harbors on the planet.

Give the “momentum”?

I hate to break it to you homey but population growth in the most recent census is the lowest in history.

Lower population growth still means there are more people each year. Population growth is not negative.

I’m sorry, but either you are a pathological liar, or you are really, really dense.

Not lower. LOWEST.

You’re lying to the readers here once again.

Lowest is still greater than 0 (ie. growing).

Lowest mean falling. (ie… it’s not growing)

“Lowest mean falling. (ie… it’s not growing)”

From my link above directly from the Census.

2000 population 281,425,000
2010 population 308,746,000

Last I checked, 308 million was greater than 281 million.

You are mistaking a decrease in the rate of growth with a decrease in population.

The rate of growth is slowing, the population is not shrinking.

MOST of them. Come to the northeast and everyone here retires at 52-55.

What does “selling their house” have to do with anything? Or do you mean to tell me they’re all immortal?

Not to mention that the biggest age cohort of boomers is currently 48-58. Relatively few people retire before they can get SS and Medicare.

Nonsense.

And cherry picking ages to get to a cohort that suits your misrepresentations is typical of you.

In 2010, the biggest 5-year age cohorts were reported as 45-49 and 50-54 by the US Census.

Let me correct my arithmetic adding three years…48-57 as the biggest 10-year cohort.

This is simply adding 3 years to what the census reported.

Of course you “added”. That’s what you do to distort the truth about housing.

Not to mention that the biggest age cohort of boomers is currently 48-58. Relatively few people retire before they can get SS and Medicare.

Represent!

I’m 55 and not about to retire. Reason #1: I’d be bored to tears, even if I had the funds for a life of leisure. Reason #2: Gotta keep on working to keep the funds coming in.

Boomer cohort is roughly ages 49-67, i.e. born between WWII and 1964.

“Of course you “added”. That’s what you do to distort the truth about housing.”

LOL

I added because the data was provided as of 2010. We are now in 2013.

Are you really asking me to do the math to show you how I got to 3 years?

People who were 45 in 2010 are 48 now in 2013…get it? People have birthdays and get older.

What % of the boomer cohort has actually retired? What % own their homes, what % rent, what % have a mortgage & what % are homeless?

And you cherry picked the years to make a cohort support your misrepresentations.

Do you really think we believe your constant stream of housing cheerleading?

Lots of questions, no time to do all the research right now.

One item that I have looked at though is homeownership rate…it seems to max out at approximately 80% as people get into their mid 70’s.

“And you cherry picked the years to make a cohort support your misrepresentations.”

LOL…again, I picked the LARGEST cohorts, and said so.

I picked the largest to make my point, that EVEN if you pick the two largest cohorts of the boomer generation, the excess of people over that decade is ONLY approximately 5MM people as compared to more typical decades.

If I wanted to cherry pick, I would have picked different cohorts, like those 55-64 (now 58-67), who, combined are SMALLER than current 10-year cohorts.

You really are dense.

“I’m 55 and not about to retire…I’d be bored to tears,”

Amen. I’m 47, same outlook. And every news report I’ve read about this suggests that people our age expect to delay retirement significantly out of necessity. I don’t know how this fits into RWatch and Pimp’s discussion, but retirement ages of the past should not be used as any kind of accepted number. Sure, many will be forced into retirement, but many more potential retirees will keep on keepin’ on. Might have a negative impact on job listings, but it also might ease the pressure on the SS fund for a bit.

I’m not sure the delayed retirement does much to impact my thinking on demographics on housing, as generally I see housing decisions as a stage of life thing. In other words, generally speaking, the older you get, the more likely you are to want to own. Also, the older you get, the MORE house you are likely to own (as your family grows), UNTIL you make a downsizing decision, either on purpose, or as the result of major life change (death of spouse, health decline).

I think the tendency to work longer is a long-term trend that shows up in the participation rates by age cohort…you see higher and higher percentage of people working in their 60’s, etc.

That said, there is still a big dropoff from participation rates when people are in their 50’s. SOME people are still retiring–

“The excess of people over that decade is ONLY approximately 5MM people as compared to more typical decades.”

You’re lying once again. The boomer cohort is 15 million LARGER than any other subsequent cohort.

Are you really that stupid to think we believe your distortions?

Forget the names that people give each generation, and simply look at the age cohorts…therein lies the reality of what we are dealing with…a couple of 5-year age cohorts that are 10% larger than the bulk of 5-year age cohorts that follow.

That’s it, the baby boom “problem” boiled down to the raw, mathematical reality.

Rental Watch,

Part of the reason that the 48 to 58 age group isn’t that much larger than the younger group is that they have already started dying of age related diseases like the early heart attacks and cancers. And the second half of the baby boom (the ones you are talking about) was smaller than the first half back when they were born, but, again, more of the older boomers have passed on, though at 58 to 68 they still have a ways to go before their peak dying years in their 70s and 80s.

Of course, if part of a group has already died, then their housing may have already been absorbed, but it is also possible (even likely) that the widows/widowers are still occupying the house that was previously occupied by a couple. Some may still have kids at home.

This stuff is way more complicated than just how many people who are of a certain age are still alive. Census should have stats about households as well as individuals since that is the way the data is collected.

Polly, look at the link, it shows what those age cohorts looked like 30 years ago as well:

The group that was 25-34 in 1980 was the 55-64 group in 2010…the “front edge of the baby boom”…it totaled 37,082 then, it totals 36,483 now. Some shrinkage, some immigration.

The group that was 15-24 in 1980 was the 45-54 group in 2010…the second wave…it totaled 42,487 then, it totals 45,007 now (plenty of immigration).

Where do you get the information that the front edge of the boom was larger than the part starting 10-years later?

You can see the pig moving right through the python in the link, and it clearly indicates that the pig is really later in the baby boom.

Peak births in the US happened in 1957: http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/04/us-births-per-year.html

And the decimal point division line will keep moving to the right until the blood flows, unfortunately. It seems they wouldn’t have it any other way.

Agreed. That is why I always talk about the .02%. If you are not invited to the Bildenberg conference, you are just cattle.

Bilderberg

Actually, Alpha there is a study out today from Norway cutting the projection of global warming even more and acknowledging that natural causes were underestimated. With every acknowledgment that they over estimated co2’s role in the warming between 1978-1998, they get closer to my estimate that only 1/7 of the warming during that period was caused by man. I did not raise that study today since I would rather just wait for the data than talk about predictions.

Nice parse, I’m impressed. Context is everything; I tend to take the long view….

So do I, 420,000 years of data and the fact that we are 1-3 C below the typical peak of interglacial periods. I hope we are that lucky before we go into a glacial period. I doubt the earth can support more than a billion people during such an event.

“Nice parse, I’m impressed. Context is everything; I tend to take the long view….”

Fair enough, but really, such unwarranted vituperation toward dan, my goodness.

Sarc off.

Well actually, palmy, I was talking to dan, who knows precisely what I’m referring to, but since you’ve chosen to enter the fray I’ll direct my response to you:

Dan has a long history of citing dubious sources with misleading headlines:

“300-Million-Year-Old Tooth Wheel Found In Russian Coal: Scientists”

In actuality “scientists” have said no such thing, nor have they verified the age of the sample or determined it’s a “tooth wheel”. Then he then proceeds to flog these articles as fact despite the glaring inconsistencies and obvious methodological flaws. This seemingly random post is no exception.

Now, the charitable among us might choose to think dan was just pointing out yet another sensationalist article in the popular press, employing the ambiguous modifier “weird” as a means of highlighting the silliness of human gullibility. But those of us who have actually read his links over the years have been conditioned to think he’s playing fast with with the facts again and presenting this as something foundational. (Else-wise, why bother? After all, he’s mentioned “ancient astronauts” on more than one previous occasion.)

So like Pimpster, who’s made it his mission to call out bs in the RE sector, I’ve settled my sites on dan’s venal manipulation of the pseudo science he peddles as fact. At best, he’s called “wolf” one time too many. At worst, he’s a liar. Hence what you call my “vituperation”, but which I prefer to refer to as scorn.

Cheers.

If TEOTWAWKI scenario actually happens, we’ll take 2-4-6 weeks of living in the Rocky Mountains playing “Red Dawn” before we starve or get shot rather than living in a post-Katrina Superdome. To each his own…

How about organizing a general strike? It’s the ONLY thing that could stop and reverse what has been happening. If you could get 20%-30% of all workers to strike for 4-5 days it would stop Obama and Congress in their tracks and break the strangle hold big money has on our government. Just look at that new immigration law they just whipped out. More money for secure boarders? We already spend more than $17.9 billion on immigration security and enforcement (up 1,500% since 9/11/2001). Look at the huge loop hole for farm labor, nothing but legalized slavery and the free pass for any immigrant willing to join the military. It’s Bullsh*t.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/enforcementpillars.pdf

Why do you think they’ve been so busy destroying unions? All things being equal I don’t like the idea of public unions but things aren’t equal the elite have total control of our media, political system and more and more so our judiciary. They control more and more of the wealth as the middle class becomes weaker and poorer.

BINGO

If I’m a CEO and looking to keep my paycheck for the next 10 years I want to borrow as much as possible at 0% and use that money A as a safety net so if the sht hits the fan in the short term I can ride it out with my paycheck in tact. I can also use the debt to pump up earnings and get a bonus. Who cares if the company goes BK in 10 years I’ve already got mine.

The individual has to look for the long term.

“Our conversation led me to believe that perhaps ordinary Americans are presently entering the anger phase of the housing bubble stages of grief.”

I remember this sort of thing when the draft lotto eventually selected “their” son, and the Vietnam war took on a whole different meaning.