February 11, 2013

Bits Bucket for February 11, 2013

Post off-topic ideas, links, and Craigslist finds here.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 01:19:34

Comment by X-GSfixr
2013-02-10 10:44:03
So, if a bankster retains his citizenship, but moves to the Middle East to continue “economic terrorism”, the boyz flying the Predators can still zap them.

You guys are looking at this policy as a bad thing……


I’m pretty certain the Gulfster is being snide here, but now that the LAPD has admitted it’s using drones to search for Christopher Dornan (an American citizen presumably still on domestic soil), it will be interesting to see what the chattering classes have to say about the ethics of the larger scenario.

There are the libertarian gun nurtz who are cheering him on despite his strong support of gun regulation. And the sympathetic libs who struggle to overlook the fact that he allegedly killed two non-combatants solely for tactical advantage. And teaparty conservatives who hate the yoke of corrupt authority almost as much as they hate uppity Obama-loving Negroes. And story-hungry investigative reporters who still must toe the ideological line of their corporate owners. And the people in places like Compton and Big Bear who would more inclined to buy the guy a beer than turn him in to 911 — only now there’s a million dollar bounty on him and they could sure use the money.

The ethical dissonance here takes the Martin/Zimmerman controversy to a whole new level, and the PTB is well aware of the fact that this sort of popular NON-IDEOLOGICAL support for one-man-in-defiance-of-corrupt-authority is precisely what ignited the Arab Spring.

As Ben pointed out, Americans are armed. If one angry man can tie up ten thousand police officers and the full attention of the national security apparatus, imagine what 10 million of them could do. And poor Karl Rove thought he had a problem on his hands with Occupy Wall Street threatening to join forces with the Tea Party….

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-02-11 04:38:29

You seem to be a big fan of the police state. Like I have said many times before, I would like to be there to see the look on your face when the storm troopers come looking for you.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 08:19:24

I don’t read Alenna’s post this way at all. I read her as thinking domestic drone use is largely a bad idea. (Ahanson, correct me if I am wrong.)

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 11:24:08

Mr. Nuance here gives apt demonstration of why a well-regulated internet should be restricted to those who can demonstrate proficiency in reading comprehension.

Support laptop safes and keyboard locks to protect our children!

And for the record, I HAVE been dragged from my home in the middle of the night by jack-booted thugs. It wasn’t pretty, but two of them are dead now. True.

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Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 08:51:28

I would like to be there to see the look on your face when the storm troopers come looking for you ??

Survivor….Nicky against Ahansen….I would pay to watch that…

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 12:49:55

The GOP loves to scare you. What are these troops going to do with you? who is going to pay them? with what? who will join the troops?

think…dont just be scared

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 13:38:47

More to the point, this Dorner fiasco shows the American public that the vaunted “domestic spy network” everyone’s so freaked out about, is basically a sham. Cameras on every corner, internet nannies monitoring our posts, drones in the air, 20,000 feet on the ground, amberalert signs aflashing, and after four days no one knows if this dude is dead, alive, or even in country.


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Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-02-11 14:46:14

There is a difference between looking for a progressive nut hiding in the woods and routine surveillance of an unsuspecting populous. I guess we need well-regulated internet restricted to those who do not post coded messages intended to deflect criticism from an authoritarian president bent on “Fundamentally changing the United States of America”.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 15:48:51

Cognitive dissonance much, nicky?

Which side are you on anyway; the anti-Statists or the law and order authoritarians?

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 15:51:00

nickpapageorgio: what ulcer medication do you take?


Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-02-11 16:49:50

Keep changing the subject and using personal attacks. Your president wants to “Fundamentally change the United States of America”, you agree with him in that regard, therefore you consistently attempt cover for him using your pseudo-intellectual riddles.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 21:33:23

no he does not, you are delusional.

Obama is more of a good capitalist and fiscal conservative then your gods: reagan and bush.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:04:34

I presume the news story didn’t say “…to search for and zap Christopher Dornan on domestic terrorism charges…”

Comment by goon squad
Comment by Ryan
2013-02-11 07:35:44

Suppose Dorner makes it on a kill list for domestic terrorism. Could we see the first armed drone in the U.S. skies? Will we see Dorner captured and held without due process?

Our Government has all the pieces in place now.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 09:22:38

“Our Government has all the pieces in place now.”

Our Government is all in pieces now.

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Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 09:38:16

Only if Dorner is a confirmed member of A-Q. The drone memo relies heavily on the AUMF that Congress passed, which specifically cites A-Q only. So, the memo does not apply to

The memo also limits drone zaps to where the suspect cannot be accessed any other way except by air. Even the most war-hawky would have trouble arguing that the US couldn’t access someone on the ground in the US.

But I agree that this is pretty subjective, and a slippery slope with no firm stopping point.

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Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-02-11 10:42:37

I’m sure they could give him an honorary membership… but that would make him even more scary. They’d be shooting up the wrong trucks from an even greater distance.

Comment by Resistor
2013-02-11 11:45:49

Wow, Dorner… Drone.

One letter away from topping Madam Curie.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 11:55:00

Nice, mugz.

Comment by Resistor
2013-02-11 12:35:22

Thanks, I had a full-blown 9/11 flashback/meltdown recently, the result of which is a complicated screenplay (think Adaptation).

We will be in touch when the time is right. Please do not wrestle with any wildlife before I get this thing finished.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 22:30:59


Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 09:43:49

Will we see Dorner captured and held without due process?
If Dorner is captured, he won’t be captured alive. Review history of what has happened to similar cop-killers over the last 30 years or so.
Exception might be if live TV cameras are around.

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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 10:31:46

I guess if they kill him, that will take care of possible issues with airing his LAPD grievances in the MSM?

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-02-11 14:49:26

I guess since this guy is a “right thinking” progressive wing nut, we must look into the legitimacy of his grievances.

Comment by Spook
2013-02-11 11:29:13

I suspect after they kill Dorner they will treat him like Bin Laden and flush him into the ocean like some cocaine…

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Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 12:52:21

Gosh, I wish Texas would secede, but they have to financially support 3 other red states as part of the deal.

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Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:03:14

I’ve alway thought if the could divide the Govornors office into 3 separates states, then the average IQ of Texas would go up.

Comment by Northeastener
2013-02-11 09:24:03

to search for and zap Christopher Dornan on domestic terrorism charges…

Considering the LAPD have already shot 2 newspaper delivery people and a surfer in cases of mistaken identity with the ex-cop (or more accurately his truck), I’d say armed drones would be a bad idea…

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 11:48:51

The LAPD already has a PR disaster of epic proportion on its hands; drone-zapping Dorner from above would pretty much ensure every cop across the country becomes a target. (Besides, this being the LAPD, they’d probably blow up a day care by mistake.)

So far, domestic drone use has been restricted to surveillance, AFAIK.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 12:54:05

Are you for or against military cuts? Seems like the anti-drone crowd is also pro-$-for the military.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 14:01:37

Personally, I’d like the see the US announce that it’s eliminating its imperial military entirely in favor of a trained citizen National Guard and a few “elite” divisions to handle international policing matters. Tell the corporate expansionists and their oiligarchy that they’re on their own now, and under the jurisdiction of the UN.

A permanent cut of 90% sounds about right to me. If the Swiss and Singaporians can do it and still remain financial powerhouses, so can we.

The resources spent on perpetuating the MIC (domestic and international — they’re all the same players) could be far better spent on research and development of trans-dimensional matter and energy generation, biogenetic research, a vastly improved infrastructure, and much-needed societal remediation and restructuring.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 14:27:52

ahansen for President!!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-02-11 14:32:43

ahansen for President!!


Comment by rms
2013-02-11 14:33:20

How about Israel?

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 15:29:36

Move it to Baja and open the borders. It’s already running the US anyway….

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 15:54:00

I always thought the USA should buy Baja and put a huge, solar de-sal plant down there, clean it up and raise the tolls on the roads. Great beaches!

Comment by jane
2013-02-11 21:04:18

Respectfully, ahansen - another POV.

The military is - imho - a much needed jobz program. Not to put too fine a point on it, there is a loooonnnng tail for every front-line job, 20:1. Lots of useful skillz to be larned.

Plus the undeniable benefit of four years’ worth of living on a regular schedule, learning to work on a team, the benefit of physical fitness (for many, their first experience), and heeding authorities without punching ‘em out (regardless of inclination). Regular schedule, physical fitness and teamwork: those habitz ingrained over four years comprise the foundation of a productive life.

Those habitz are virtually impossible to acquire for those without parental support or other role models. You would be surprised how many there are in this generation, brought up as they were amidst the reckless self-indulgence of the bubble years.

ahansen, regrettably, most of us 99%’ers have not led examined lives. Our kids will suffer from it. The military serves as a proxy for the parenting that should have instilled these habits.

That is MHO, and I stand by it.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 21:28:12

Absolutely agree, Jane. But why not change the orientation to productive rather than destructive ends?

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-02-11 21:42:11

But shouldn’t that money be spend HERE, protecting our borders?

If you want to protect Lithuania..let them pay and sub contract our troops.

Just like if we let corporations bring all that money overseas back home tax free only if its spent on legal Americans in America bring all you call centers back home…all the money is tax free and will be recycled in what country?

Last time they bought back stock, paid exec bonuses, and screwed Americans.

The military is - imho - a much needed jobz program

Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 07:19:24

Ahansen…Any news on Hwy….??

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 11:30:18

Hwy popped up here about a month ago, left one cogent post, then disappeared despite our greetings and entreaties. One can only speculate….

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 13:25:36

left one cogent post

That was the most confusing part about it.

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Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 14:29:23

Well, considering the news that we got about Oly I will take that as good news…

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Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 09:46:12

the PTB is well aware of the fact that this sort of popular NON-IDEOLOGICAL support for one-man-in-defiance-of-corrupt-authority is precisely what ignited the Arab Spring.
— What ignited the Arab Spring was high food prices and unemployment. Bernanke had more to do with that than Mubarak.
— “one-man-in-defiance-of-corrupt-authority” is a popular meme for the MSM to harp on.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 09:55:02

The powers that be have already crossed the Rubicon. There’s no political opposition to total state power over the individual. Now it’s just a matter of how it will all play out. Alea iacta est.

‘The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

― Frank Zappa

Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 10:19:46

There’s no political opposition to total state power over the individual.
You forget the 0.1%. They are beyond the reach of state power. Maybe they ARE the state.

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Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:04:32

Tell that to General Petrause.

Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 14:22:58

Tell that to General Petrause.
He was a servant, not a master.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 22:44:05

“…There’s no political opposition to total state power over the individual….”

OWS, the Paulians, and the TeaParty would likely disagree with you on this.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 22:49:33

‘OWS, the Paulians, and the TeaParty’

All easily derailed or co-opted by the establishment with no damage to the system.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 13:26:40

What ignited the Arab Spring was high food prices and unemployment

Well luckily those factors aren’t in place here :-).

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 14:04:35

Wiki up Mohamed Bouazizi.

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Comment by Albuquerquedan
Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 08:06:09

“Iverson’s personal finances have long been a matter of inquiry — since his last NBA stint with the 76ers ended in February 2010, there have been reports that, despite earning more than $154 million in salary over the course of his 14-year NBA career, plus plenty more in endorsements , the 2000-01 NBA Most Valuable Player is broke.”

Comment by michael
2013-02-11 08:19:36

what’s that saying….take all the money and divide it evenly and in just few years it will settle into the hands of those that had it all before?

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 08:38:37

It will end up back in the hands of those who had it before, but it doesn’t “settle” as if by benign natural occurance or divine right.

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Comment by michael
2013-02-11 09:09:09

i know…it’s by devine stupidity.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:37:56

That’s only part of it. There is also the lying, cheating and stealing part.

“Merit” is the LAST thing on the list of causes.

Comment by frankie
2013-02-11 09:18:55

Does he go bah and answer to the name of fluffy?

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 12:03:20

Iverson made at least 200 Mil in his career (once you include endorsements). Even after taxes, something like 100MM.

Hopefully he had a nice agent who will let A.I. live in his pool house :-P

Isn’t his agent Arn Tellum? Or one of the other super agents? They should hook old A.I. up….

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 12:30:55

I was wrong, Iverson’s agent is Leon Rose… the same agent as Lebron James.

Yeah, that guy can easily afford to take care of A.I. for life if he chooses. Just give him $10k here and there for “pocket change”.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 12:56:49

Attorneys are thieves.

Comment by cactus
2013-02-11 14:06:15

quote from Monarch basketball acadamy in San Diego. I saw their 13U team in Hemet last weekend they were as tall as me. Didn’t get to see them play though they left early.

Hemet CA ( inland empire ) smelled like dairy. Remined me of Chandler AZ which also smells like diary cows.

“25% of the teams in the 2009 Division I Men’s Basketball Tournament had graduation rates of less than 40% and four teams had 0% of their black players graduate. We plan on working with students over the course of many years and having 90 – 100% graduate.
Currently, there are 342 players in the NBA from Division I schools. There are 344 colleges and universities with Division I basketball programs. With 4,433 potential scholarships offered each year, and the average length of experience of NBA team players at just less than 5 years, only 1.5% of Division I scholarship players during that period are playing in the NBA.
Over 60% of NBA players will be broke within 5 years of their retirement.
Currently, even for the most talented athletes, and the ones who make it to the NBA you can bet on one outcome – almost all will be broke AND uneducated by the time they are 26. Bet on it. You won’t lose.

Comment by Housing Analyst
2013-02-11 05:38:55

“If you buy a house now at these massively inflated asking prices of resale housing, you’re going to lose a lot of money. A LOT of money.”

Comment by Mo Money
2013-02-11 17:10:48

Or like me you could be making a lot of money while the crackpots stay on the sidelines. Thanks, more money for me !

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2013-02-11 19:24:01

It is easy to lie about making money on the internet. Case in point: You.

Comment by Salinasron
2013-02-11 05:42:16

In the thirties many people cheered the gangsters, so what’s different now. Nothing like the media to spread fear, and nothing like the sheep willing to be led.

Comment by snowgirl
2013-02-11 06:05:16

The fact he’s a whistle blower does make one wonder if he’s being framed. With Julian Assange sitting in an Ecusadorian embassy because he didn’t use a condom during consensual sex, or what they threw at Aaron Swartz, one does have to take pause when they report the whistle blower is a criminal. The Aaron Swartz “suicide” had certain IT people declaring they were not depressed just in case they ended up in a similar end. BP whistle blowers have reportedly disappeared. NSA whistleblowers have claimed they were blackballed and threatened. With each one, authorities lose credibility.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 09:04:10

There are hundreds and hundreds of cases of whistle blowers having their lives destroyed.

It was only a matter of time before they picked the wrong person.

Comment by Robin
2013-02-11 18:36:08

Where is Ecusa? - :)

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 06:28:04

ED ZACHARY! Arab Spring indeed (meh).

Comment by hazard
2013-02-11 05:46:42

Well I guess they will have to change one of those 2 pictures I saw a couple of years ago that showed one family living in a car with the caption…. Unemployed renter and one family sitting down to a nice meal at the dinning room table with the caption…. Unemployed homeowner.

Report: Arkansas Law Imprisons Those Who Fail To Pay Rent

By David Ferguson
Posted: 02/09/2013 1:16 pm EST

Under a state law in Arkansas, renters can be imprisoned for failing to pay their rent. According to a report by Human Rights Watch, titled “Pay the Rent or Face Arrest: Abusive Impacts of Arkansas’s Criminal Evictions Law,” hundreds of tenants each year are taken to court, fined and jailed under the state’s “failure to vacate” law.

Read the whole story at Raw Story

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/09/report-arkansas-law-impri_n_2653196.html - 380k - Cached - Similar pages

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:23:37

Time to party like it’s 1899!

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:01:24

Great! Can I just pay his rent instead? Much cheaper than jail.

is anyone a fiscal conservative anymore? Seems like there is plenty of money to go around, if no one cheated.

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2013-02-11 06:33:27

The Vatican is hiring.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 08:00:25

LOL, I saw that. Too old and tired to continue. Well, at least he didn’t say he “wants to spend more time with his family”.

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2013-02-11 08:36:05

It might be my advanced age that is playing games with my head, but I seem to remember a blurb about the Pope a few days ago that indicated he was about to do something along these lines.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 09:37:03

You’re ol’ Barbara.

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Comment by michael
2013-02-11 08:21:00

(put on your tinfoil hat)

Peter the Roman?

Comment by vinceinwaukesha
2013-02-11 08:53:02

The real tinfoil hat stuff is why such a hurry right before Easter… my suspicion is something legal. Maybe the decades old molestation crisis might be rising to a boil from a low simmer, or the guy believe it or not is was old enough to be “involved” in the whole WWII thing so something discrediting might have been discovered.

From my study of the process, its quite possible we’ll end up with an Easter mass with no pope! This is a pretty big tourism deal in Italy, kind of like times square on new years eve in NYC.

Maybe “they” are hoping to dramatically announce the new pope on easter sunday or something, like the doors open that morning and “surprise”. But they’re really cutting it close, as per the numbers. Or it might be that the “fix is in” so this will be the fastest election ever.

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 09:13:52

I’ll give the Pope the benefit of the doubt. It doesn’t have to be legal to be imminent. Could be medical. Maybe he just doesn’t want the public to see his undignified physical decline, as we saw from JPII?*

I remember that Benedict had been a sort of favorite to succeed John Paul II even since JPII went into decline. Are there any standout Cardinals now? (I suppose we could ask if there’s a papal bookie in Vegas. Man, talk about undignified…)

*Although, ISTM that preaching right up to the last minute only increased the public’s adoration of JPII, indignities and all.

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:26:40

Benedict won’t be remembered like JP2, he was just a caretaker. As for a successor, it would be interesting if say a Chinese Cardinal was chosen.

Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 09:31:03

I used to like Arinze from Nigeria though I haven’t kept up with him lately. He’ll be in the running I think.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 10:38:09

It will be interesting to see if they go with a “non-traditional” candidate or if they will just pick some European dude.

Comment by frankie
2013-02-11 13:35:01

William Hill made Turkson — one of the highest-ranking African cardinals at the Vatican — its 3/1 favorite Monday, followed by Ouellet at 7/2 and Arinze at 4/1. Ladbrokes also had Turkson as favorite, followed by Arinze and Ouellet.

Ireland’s Paddy Power also offered short odds on the three, as well as long odds on unlikely candidates — including U2 singer Bono at 1,000/1. It also offered 1,000/1 odds on Father Dougal Maguire, the simpleminded fictional priest from 1990s U.K. sitcom “Father Ted.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/11/bookmakers-offer-odds-on-papal-contenders-including-african-cardinals-and-bono/#ixzz2KcmvVo42

Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 13:43:46

yes I guess Arinze’s gotten too old really.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-02-11 09:55:12

The real tinfoil hat stuff is why such a hurry right before Easter… my suspicion is something legal. Maybe the decades old molestation crisis might be rising to a boil from a low simmer, or the guy believe it or not is was old enough to be “involved” in the whole WWII thing so something discrediting might have been discovered.

I would tend to agree with the above. So, time to make popcorn and watch the movie…

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 10:36:22

The real tinfoil hat stuff is why such a hurry right before Easter… my suspicion is something legal.

Given that Vatican City is a sovereign state I fail to see the connection. The lawsuits are against local jurisdictions (diocese and archdiocese). I don’t see how changing Popes will affect that.

Maybe, just maybe, he’s taken a turn for the worse. Maybe Alzheimer’s or Dementia is beginning to impair him? He is 85 after all.

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Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 11:52:18

Bingo. The recent HBO investigative report, “Mea Maximus Culpa” pretty much put the lid on the Popester’s career, and derailed J2P2’s fast-track “sainthood”.

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Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:03:45

I too am very concerned about tourism around the Vatican. It is not like they have money to spare….oh…wait….

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 15:10:17

I think that it would be the Italian tourist biz that would be impacted. Last time I checked there were no hotels or restaurants in Vatican City.

Comment by michael
2013-02-11 12:30:54


not sure how you would draw the “Roman” connection…but his name is Peter.

Comment by WT Economist
2013-02-11 09:31:01

The Pope is 85.

At least he didn’t expect to retire decades earlier than younger generations will be allowed to.

BTW, the age of “mandatory” retirement for everyone else in the Church is 75. It doesn’t mean you stop working. It just means you aren’t expected to do non-religious work anymore — administration, etc.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 06:47:30

As college debt grows, students delay payment:

“Borrowers on the hook for more than half of all student loans are delaying principal and interest payments, contributing to rising balances for recent graduates who face a weak jobs market, according to a new study.

“With unemployment rates remaining high, the repayment of these loans remains a concern,” said Ezra Becker, vice president of research and consulting for Chicago-based TransUnion, which conducted the study. “Students can defer their loans for only a certain period, often up to three years, and after that these students can find themselves in a difficult position financially.”


What those kidz need are $350,000 starter homes!

Welcome to the recoveryless recovery.

The future belongs to Lucky Ducky :)

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 09:15:37

But, but, I thought the “producers” were creating jobs?

Could it be they are just “takers” after all. As in “taking student money and NOT giving them a job”.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 09:23:20

The producers have withdrawn to Galt Gulch. It is no longer their problem if some looser with a BA in Obama Studies can repay their loans. A seventy percent consumer doesn’t need consumers. It’s a totally new economic paradigm, just like Florida real estate circa 2005.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 09:25:06

seventy percent consumer *economy*

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Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:32:23

I saw an article yesterday that bemoaned the lack of used cars, which is driving up prices. The reason given was simple: people are increasingly driving their cars into the ground, as opposed to trading them in every few years for a shiny new car.

I guess you need consumers with good paying, steady jobs to sell expensive new cars.

Who would have thought of that?

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Comment by PeakHubris
2013-02-11 10:34:58

This doesn’t square with the huge new car sales numbers.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 10:53:21

Huge? They are still below the peak. That said, there has been a spike recently, but over the past 6-7 years new car sales have hovered in the 11-12M range.

And even though people might be buying more new cars, they are trading in much older cars, if they are trading in at all. The article that I read quoted a Denver area dealer complaining that the typical trade in has over 100K miles.

As for the new car spike last year, I think it might actually be driven by “pent up demand” as cars that people have been hanging onto are starting to become beaters. But I think that the old model of “buy, trade in after 3-4 years” is over. That said, leasing could counter that, but I think that many drivers are becoming wary of endless monthly payments.

One thing I wonder about the current new car sales boom is that I’m not seeing it in my neck of the woods. The ubiquitous temporary tags still seem rare. Might the government or other fleet buyers be the ones gobbling up new vehicle sales? I really don’t know.

Comment by Spook
2013-02-11 11:36:18

For the first time since 1994, Im doing a winter with no car.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 11:51:21

It would if those used cars were being given/sold to family/friends or sold curbside. The seller than takes that money and buys new.

But yes, used car prices are ridiculous these days, yet trade in value still sucks.

As for the huge sales, not really. Look at historical sales over the last 10 years. Sales are still down from even just 7 years ago.

Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 09:33:12

some looser with a BA in Obama Studies


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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2013-02-11 11:52:26

I too LOLd at “Obama Studies.”

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:05:08

haha! Just trust them, the banks r your friend!

Comment by WT Economist
2013-02-11 09:33:41

I graduated in unemployment was well, went to grad school, and also deferred my payments.

But back then there was no interest on deferred loans. The bank absolutely got killed, as this was the early 1980s when interest rates — and the cost of funding that loan — were sky high.

To add insult to injury, once I got a job I paid those loans off as fast as I could, wiping out years of interest.

Yet another example of how younger generations are screwed compared with those my age, who were screwed to a lesser extent compared with those somewhat older.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 09:36:35

What those kidz need are $350,000 starter homes!

+1 Make that $500k in coastal California cities.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:06:57

only $500k? you must mean a condo.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 13:36:38

“only $500k? you must mean a condo.”

Actually there are quite a few moldy 1950’s, 1100-sqft, 3/1 stucco ranchers that have been painted so many times it’s not worth counting. Of course these are in neighborhoods where two families per household is now typical, and no street parking. In fact you have to buy a city parking permit just to park on the street in front of your own house. And realize that while $500k may be at the low end of California housing it still is one heck of lot of money. We know a family who brought into this sort of dream for $540k in San Jose, CA a couple of years ago. When their annual Christmas card fails to show we already know why.

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Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:56:39

Sure, east of the 405 or 5.

I think of coastal as, be there in less than 15 mins.

Comment by SV guy
2013-02-11 17:23:05

$540K in SJ gets you into a not so nice neighborhood.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 20:18:01

“$540K in SJ gets you into a not so nice neighborhood.”

+1 Exactly right.

At home it’s freezing in the low 20’s, but in San Jose it’s patio weather. My friend’s neighbor has his lowered pickup truck parked on the front lawn, doors open, boom-box playing, waxing that thing in his t-shirt and trucks. I’m a civil engineer, and I can’t even afford a SJ barrio. It’s surreal.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 21:39:09

SJ is gross, just like inland Orange County. bad schools, traffic, gangs, road rage, chain restaurants, strip malls…. yuk!
and not patio weather for locals. 40 degrees after sundown.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 06:49:57

If you bought a house since 1998, you are sitting on a loss you will never recover from. Sell ASAP because your house will be worth less with the passing of each week. 65%, to be exact.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:00:16

We bought a house in 2000. Sold in 2005. Made a nice tidy little profit. Dumb luck, but awesome!

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 07:25:42

Most homedebtors would’ve refinanced in 2005 and thought themselves “smart”.

Kudos to you for your profit$. But I’m more concerned with spreading the learned message of RAL to the masses.

I bought a house in mid 2011. I don’t think it will ever directly make me money* but I carefully considered what I’d read on HBB and other places, consulted with my wife, and bought far less than we could “afford”.

*a primary residence is an expense, not an “investment”. This is the #1 lesson of the housing bubble. We can argue what #2, #3, etc. but the ball got rolling because of “the sheep” forgot rule #1.

Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 07:38:24

Does land depreciate?

In theory how long will a home built to code last in CA?

What part of this equation is doing all the appreciating?

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 07:54:34

I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I will venture some guesses to your questions. Please consult RAL for definitive answers.
Does land depreciate?

–> First off, do you mean in real price (inflation adjusted) or nominal terms? I’d actually say yes to both, but for different reasons. Here are some things to think about - What is happening on adjacent land? How is the land zoned, how is adjacent land zoned? Are there environmental considerations? How is the state/county doing and how will that affect property taxes?

In theory how long will a home built to code last in CA?

–> No idea, as I’m not a builder. Based on what I see in Maryland (fairly strict codes) it’s still easy for builders to do the cheapest job possible. Houses built here in the 00s and 10s seem pretty cheaply built compared to houses built in the 60s and 70s. It seems like most of the people working on the projects are Jose and Juan who probably work hard but aren’t that experienced. I believe when RAL says that new housing can be built for $50-60 sq ft. Obviously, land costs and environmental restrictions add to that. But when we’re talking about the actual structure of the house, I totally believe RAL on that.

What part of this equation is doing all the appreciating?

–>I’m not sure what this question means. Are you seriously asking “why have house prices increased?” and you really can’t figure it out? I would say that house price “increases” in the last 10-15 yrs are almost entirely based upon the 2000-2007 period of easy mortgages and “easy money” policy from the Fed, combined with government trying to create an “ownership society”. Which, ironically, is predicated on mortgage DEBT, which is antithetical to “owning” anything.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:41:32

My experience in SoCal is that houses aren’t built to last. The differences between our Colorado house and the one we had in SoCal are striking. Quality of fixtures, siding, paint jobs, trim, etc is all subpar.

For instance, the level of insulation in SoCal (the house was built in 1989) was a joke. Even though it’s much colder here and the house is twice as big (3x if you count the basement) it costs about the same to heat both houses. I think part of the reason for that it that SoCal houses are built on slabs, which are heat sinks in the winter.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 09:45:55

Also, re: does land depreciate?

Keep in mind, land values depend heavily on electric/gas/sewer/water availability. The days of utilities installing new service for cheap are over, I think.

There are also a lot of restrictions on wells and septic tanks in areas near water supplies. For example, Maryland has tough new laws because of the Chesapeake Bay watershed. I would assume that most states (even conservative ones) will prioritize their water supply as fresh water becomes more rare.

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 09:50:37

I imagine land in CA would depreciate fast if the Big One hits.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 10:18:34

I imagine land in CA would depreciate fast if the Big One hits.


Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 10:29:08

Here’s a link to a story about the new MD septic tank regs that went into effect last month. http://smnewsnet.com/archives/26577

The upshot of the new regs are that it’s now going to be much more expensive to build in sensitive waterfront areas. As it should be, because some cheap azz contractor and/or homeowner putting in a leaky, crappy system costs everyone a ton of money (w/r/t cleaning up pollution).

But of course to Eastern Shore Republicans (eastern shore of MD is a very “tea flavored” area) this is nothing short of communism/socialism. “Who are you to tell us we can’t just leak our pollution into the watershed???!”!

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 10:44:58

I think they passed it just to keep Rumsfeld’s and Cheney’s “pollution” out of the Bay.

Comment by AmazingRuss
2013-02-11 10:48:10

Republicans can sh*t in their own nest, because their sh*t don’t stink.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:45:13

“Most homedebtors would’ve refinanced in 2005 and thought themselves “smart”.

From about 2002 on we received phone calls from time to time trying to get us to re-finance at “market price”. Meaning, take out cash. We thought it was nutz. We were largely oblivious to the bubble, but then some friends of ours sold their home at what we thought was an outrageous price. So just out of curiosity, we got a market analysis. Jeebus! At that point, we couldn’t afford NOT to sell.

So we just placed a stupid little ad on a couple of niche websites. And sure enough, it brought a buyer. Even heading into closing we got an offer for $5,000 more than what we had contracted for. We didn’t bite, although spouse wanted to consider it. Good thing we didn’t. I drove through the old neighborhood a few weeks ago. It looks all rundown and god-awful. Overgrown, four large vehicles in the driveway and on what was once the lawn. Children’s toys strewn all over the place. Lady who looked like she was from south of the border lumbering out to the mailbox.

One of those formerly modest but pleasant little middle class pockets turning into a slum. Talk about dodging a bullet.

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Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 08:28:34

four large vehicles in the driveway and on what was once the lawn. Children’s toys strewn all over the place

If you don’t like living in a neighborhood like this, you are a Racist®

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 08:38:55

This sounds like the kind of thing that could be a zoning violation in a lot of places? If someone did that on my block, I’d be the a-hole who would call in the violation.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 08:55:14

could be a zoning violation

Once a neighborhood like that gets zoned Aztlan, it is no longer USA. Your tattle-tale phone call will accomplish jack sh*t.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 09:37:21

I’ve seen this cycle many times.

An unassuming middle class neighborhood of small houses slides into low income status and after 30-40 years, it is rediscovered as “quaint” and restorable and goes back to respectable middel class neighborhoods, but now with “character”.

Well, not always.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 09:45:19

“…and on what was once the lawn. Children’s toys strewn all over the place…”

Some homes around here are exactly like that except the bicycles and toys are buried under snow for the winter. Usually a large boat parked diagonally on the front lawn too.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 09:49:20

“could be a zoning violation

Once a neighborhood like that gets zoned Aztlan, it is no longer USA. Your tattle-tale phone call will accomplish jack sh*t.”
I’m not sure, our city gov’t is very aggressive about fines and towing. They *love* to do this. Washington D.C. and N.Y.C. love it even more.

Even if minorities are the majority (by population) the rules and enforcement are squarely protective of evil old white people with dinero.

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 10:04:52

An unassuming close-in middle class neighborhood of small not attached houses with yards slides into low income status as yuppies discover ego-stroking McMansions and after 30-40 years, it is rediscovered as “quaint” not-condos within commuting distance.

Fixed it for you.

There is talk of the nearby commercial area being redeveloped with “mixed-use.” Translation: they want to pave it over with sky-high shiny condo towers and force all the yuppies into f-ing floating boxes of air. By the time it’s all built, a 2-bed glass condo will probably cost more than my house did. Maybe when I’m 65, some of those young yuppies will pay a premium for a yard and a dedicated parking space.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 10:12:01

“By the time it’s all built, a 2-bed glass condo will probably cost more than my house did.”

By that time, they’ll be able to buy 4 condo’s for the same grossly inflated price you paid for your depreciating hut.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 11:53:35

Good job oxide. Got that right.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 12:22:32


Comment by polly
2013-02-11 13:27:21

I thought the redevelopment of White Flint was a done deal, wasn’t it? Maybe that is not the area you are talking about. I know that MoCo wants to concentrate development around the Metro stops, and they almost have to because of land use rules that require a certain part of the county be retained as farm land, but glass boxes in the sky way out in the suburbs don’t provide the space that the people who need to live here really want. Yeah, they can work for singles or DINKs, but those people are not likely to want to live that far away. It isn’t Dupont Circle if you can’t walk out the door and be in Dupont Cicle.

I’m back from NYC. City seemed to get about a foot. Niece’s birthday party went off without a hitch connected to the weather. The best part was going sledding in Central Park. We figured out that the inflatable sled went faster and farther with an adult on board, so each of us middle aged grown ups took a ride down with each kid. Keeping up with a 6 year old and a 3 year old is tough on the knees but good for the soul.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:09:09

timing is everything.
like today’s stock market, all time highs now, but what it March 1 happens? Big cuts in this economy, back to 10% unemployment.

Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 07:03:17

Have you heard about the next real estate bull market being orchestrated by flooding the system with notes? Everyone is talking about their homes again.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:08:09

“Have you heard about the next real estate bull market being orchestrated by flooding the system with notes?”

I haven’t been keeping up. Do tell.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:22:11

Thomas Sowell: Economic prophets anything but
February 10, 2013 10:18:00 PM

Now that the federal government is playing an ever larger role in the economy, a look at Washington’s track record seems to be long overdue.

The recent release of the Federal Reserve Board’s transcripts of its deliberations back in 2007 shows that their economic prophecies were way off. How much faith should we put in their prophecies today — or the policies based on those prophecies?

Even after the housing market began its collapse in 2006, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said in 2007, “The impact on the broader economy and financial markets of the problems in the subprime market seems likely to be contained.”

It turned out that financial disasters in the housing market were not “contained,” but spread out to affect the whole American economy and economies overseas. Then Chairman Bernanke said: “It is an interesting question why what looks like $100 billion or so of credit losses in the subprime market has been reflected in multiple trillions of dollars of losses in paper wealth.”

What is an even more interesting question is why we should put such faith and such power in the hands of a man and an institution that have been so wrong before.

This is not just a question of a bad guess by Ben Bernanke. The previous chairman of the Federal Reserve System, Alan Greenspan, likewise misjudged the consequences of the housing boom and bust. Nor was the Federal Reserve’s staff any more accurate in its prophecies. According to the New York Times, “The Fed’s own staff still forecast that the economy would avoid a recession.”

Today, the economy has not yet fully recovered from the recession that the Federal Reserve System’s staff and chairmen thought we would avoid.

We all make mistakes. But we don’t all have the enormous and growing power of the Federal Reserve System — or the seemingly boundless confidence that Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke still shows as he intervenes in the economy on a massive scale.

Not only does the Federal Reserve System control the money supply and regulate banks, the Fed’s willingness to keep buying hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of government bonds makes it easier for the Obama administration to keep engaging in massive deficit spending that runs up a record-breaking national debt.

The reason that the Federal Reserve can afford to continue buying huge amounts of government bonds is that the Fed is authorized to create its own money out of thin air. They use the fancy term “quantitative easing,” instead of saying in plain English that they are essentially just printing more money.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 07:58:00

Economics - great for observing, disecting, describing things. Not so great for predicting things.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 08:04:29

Horrible, actually. I remember taking econ 101 in college and the prof was in the middle of applying a formula to something or other and in the middle of the exercise, it failed. I’ll never forget the shamefaced look of surprise on his face as he squinted at the blackboard, backed away, and looked at the class. “Well, whaddya know? It doesn’t work!”

Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 08:16:47

I think the current system makes the assumption that prices will continue to go up in the future. The real problem is that a lot of peoples income are not following the same trend.

These costs are catching up to the middle wage earner:

Poor return of investment - zirp

If you dont have to incomes in the household you are screwed.

They keep saying there is no inflation but ask the typical worker that same question.

A lot of people are dropping out.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:46:04

These costs are catching up with above average wage earners too.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 09:47:27

I think the current system makes the assumption that prices will continue to go up in the future.”

Under voodoo, er, “supply side” economics, prices do rise in the future.

They may take dips, but those are usually temporary (by X amount of time) and eventaully, they do rise and stay higher than the historical avg.

While not true for everything, it is true for most things.

Again, this is just for voodoo, er (dang, will I ever learn?) “supply side” economics.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 10:09:34

“Now that the federal government is playing an ever larger role in the economy,…”

That first sentence is an understatement.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 10:33:23

“Not so great for predicting things.”

Does it help predictions to have at your disposal the tools of massive market-distorting intervention to help them come true?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:09:59


Time to buy Southern California real estate — if you can

By Muhammed El-Hasan, Kevin Smith and Gregory J. Wilcox, Staff Writers
Posted: 01/12/2013 04:27:46 PM PST
Updated: 01/13/2013 01:49:54 PM PST

Real estate agent Alan Castillo recently listed a client’s fixer-upper in Granada Hills for $278,250.

It was only 1,600 square feet — but it drew 128 offers, most of them in cash.

The final selling price, after all of 10 days on the market? $377,872.

“I was very surprised,” said Castillo, the owner of Financing Realty Center Inc. in Granada Hills, who has been in the business for 20 years.

“I didn’t think I’d get that many offers. This was overwhelming.”

While that particular transaction may be an extreme example, it reflects a Southern California housing market that is emerging from the late 2000s crash.

For 2013, real estate experts say it’s time to get ready for a new normal, or, perhaps more accurately, a new abnormal.

Interest rates are at historic lows, prices are moderate and demand is surging. But at the same time, banks are keeping a tight rein on credit, and homeowners — especially those who bought at higher prices a few years back — are still reluctant to sell. Plus investors are swooping into the market with all-cash offers that often pre-empt first-time homebuyers with moderate credit.

Those factors combine to make it a great time to buy — and a more complicated, difficult time to do so.

With rates so low and the housing bubble in the rearview mirror, home prices are starting to show some signs of recovery.

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 10:42:15

That’s over $40 million in cash chasing ONE house. So was this Chinese cash, Canadian cash, or Blackstone cash? I thought hedgies bought in cheap bulk, not expensive individual homes. Do Canadian equity locusts buy with cash or do they leverage the primary home a la Casey? Or maybe China’s collapse is so imminent that millions suddenly want safehouses?

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Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:26:31

and Home Depot is hiring 80,000 people this spring.

Looks like retirement will be in Vietnam on SS for a lot of people.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-02-11 16:55:42

“I thought hedgies bought in cheap bulk, not expensive individual homes.”

If they can, but they are really buying whatever they can, including one-off homes.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 07:12:20

The local paper says Yates County house sales in 2012 were the lowest in history.

Some see this as a lack of inventory.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 07:29:48

Have you considered setting up your harpsichord and tin cup on the street corner?

Comment by Pimp Watch
Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 08:37:09

You missed my point but at least you picked an interesting strawman.

My point was that there is value passed down when one understands the underpinnings of various civiliations. Classical music, European history, western languages, etc. are a good way to pass down the fundamental ideas about structure, technological progress, organization, etc.

Today, maybe 5% of children really have a proper introduction to Western Civilization. Many times that amount have an exposure to guns, violent messages, and ignorance. And before you accuse me of being a rainbow-flag-toting p*ssy, keep in mind that assertiveness and aggression are *hallmarks* of the elites. It has always been so and will always be so, just read Veblen if you need confirmation. The difference today is that your average uneducated l00ser equates power with handling a handgun or AR-15 (etc) whereas real power in our modern world comes from control. People who tote guns are, almost be definition, people with very little control.

This could change, but then we will all be worse off, so it’s hard to tell who to support. If gun-toting teabillies overthrow our gov’t, then *all* of our standards of living will fall dramatically. The teabillies will gain some control, but supply chains will be screwed up, the currency will be worthless, and lawlessness will abound. OTOH, if government continues to grow bigger and more powerful, it is conceivable that many more rights will be lost (privacy, for one).

If we had properly educated the last several generations of Americans, we would not be in this situation. And yes, that starts with Western Civ and classical music is one of its finest and enduring accomplishments.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 08:42:15
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Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 08:58:38

Western civilization is Racist®


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Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 09:52:33

If the oligarchy continues on its merry way, then *all* of our standards of living will fall dramatically, all but those of the oligarchy.
Let us choose wisely.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 10:07:31

People on HBB talk glibly of fighting assymetrical warfare against the U.S. gov’t.

And how the Taliban have done it for a decade now, so why couldn’t bootstrap-y teabillies?

I’m not saying it isn’t possible that it would be a drawn-out affair, I’m saying that I wouldn’t bet *any* money on teabillies accomplishing anything.

Well, for one, the rank and file Taliban guy has nothing to lose.

For two, the Taliban aren’t self-funding, they’re funded by outsiders.

For three, the Taliban aren’t fighting their *own* government as much as they’re fighting a foreign power (the U.S.). If Afghanistan had a decently functioning government that could control its own territory, none of us would be in this situation to begin with.

For four, the US military operates in Iraq and Afghanistan under conservative rules of engagement. On one hand, we love to make war. On the other, we don’t seem that interested in really defining concrete goals and winning. In a war of necessity (vs a war of choice) you would think the U.S. wouldn’t be as shy.

There are many other reasons I think teabillies attacking the U.S. government is stupid. But the biggest one is, all the things we take for granted here in the U.S. would all come into question. Fresh food, clean water, functioning computer networks, etc.

Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 10:11:46

all the things we take for granted here in the U.S. would all come into question
They should already be in question. A few guys with .50 rifles could cripple the national electrical grid for months, with just a few well-aimed shots. The high-voltage transformers that are key to the national grid are custom-made (none are in inventory), for the most part not made in the USA, and very hard to move due to their size and weight. A report on this vulnerability was declassified last December, except for a few pages.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 10:33:45

“If Afghanistan had a decently functioning government that could control its own territory, none of us would be in this situation to begin with.”

Israel felt Iran needed U.S. airbases along their eastern flank, and eventually Pakistan will require a nuclear gelding. The Taliban situation could have mopped-up years ago with a high bounty; we are there for tactical reasons.

Comment by Spook
2013-02-11 11:47:54

joe smith
2013-02-11 10:07:31
People on HBB talk glibly of fighting assymetrical warfare against the U.S. gov’t.

There are only two kinds of insurgents; white ones, and everybody else.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 12:03:33

“…we are there for tactical reasons.”

As I’ve been saying for years.

And strategic. (oil. nukes. minerals. China)

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:29:02

“A few guys with .50 rifles could cripple the national electrical grid for months”

Exactly why I wont live in AZ or ice covered places. I dont want to rely on the grid.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 13:56:29

I’m not saying it isn’t possible that it would be a drawn-out affair, I’m saying that I wouldn’t bet *any* money on teabillies accomplishing anything.

So don’t. I hope we never find out. But there are fates even worse than finding out.

Comment by eight pieces of chicken
2013-02-11 12:44:30

whereas real power in our modern world comes from control

How do the elites control? Laws? Laws are backed by guns, no?

If gun-toting teabillies overthrow our gov’t, then *all* of our standards of living will fall dramatically.

Even if teabillies don’t overthrow the government, prepare for the lower standards of living.

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Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 08:09:41

I have owned houses in three states Cali, Utah, Oregon. Got lucky; buying my first house after the last bust made me a believer that “housing only goes up” Boy was I wrong! It goes down too. I should have stopped playing sooner all in all.

Bought in 95 for 250k,sold in 04 for860k (UCSB students paid the mortgage downstairs; we lived upstairs in the granny flat for freeee). Sold because, while there, I found myself going from bachelor to guy with a family of 4(close quarters and all), 440 sq feet got too small. Rented out top and bottom for awhile at $3250/month. Mortgage was $1500. Sold because I listened to Jim Cramer who, amongst lots of nonsense, said one thing that made sense. Gains are meaningless unless you cash them in.

Bought in 05 for 150k sold in 06 for 287k
Bought in 05 for 208k sold in 06 for 350k
Bought in 09 for 117k sold in 13 for 125k (in escrow)
Gains: almost 900k

Bought in 07 for 385k; sold it to bank, lost 80k down and three years of payments(150k loss)
Bought in 07 for 385k; sold in 09 for 290k(100k loss)
Losses: around 250k
I have only had one mortgage; paid it off
Wife had a mortgage;gave it back to bank

Rental income over the 18 years of owning; don’t know exactly, but if we were not occupying it, it was rented. Only one really bad landlording experience when lady moved in 5 wolf cross dogs and changed the locks. Lost a month of rent trying to get her to leave. Oh there was also one month of vacancy spread among all those houses.

Thanks Craigslist. Never had to pay to find a tenant. We often rented out on weekly basis when we were camping in our TTrailer. Rental income alone easily covered our losses all told.

Win some lose some. I sold now because I believe RAL regarding prices and demand on the decline.

Being a landlord kept me at home with the kids so I am not complaining. Is speculative buying of housing any worse than employing people and getting rich off them when you know they will need handouts from the feds to survive?

“If you own a small business, and pay employees a true living wage(more than 65% of a living wage, I’ll bet); you are not doing it right” Joe’s dad’s playbook.
Quien es mas moral?

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 08:11:23

Good morning junkie.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 08:21:01

The plural form of anecdote is not “data”.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:05:14

Still, you have to give people credit for trying to do better than a single anecdote.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 10:24:10

three times zero still = zero

BTW, I don’t agree with the whole “don’t pay a living wage” thing. I have already said my dad was a McCain and Mittens (TM) supporter. And I have realized that so many Mittens-voters have no idea they’re getting a bad deal, so why should I go out of my way to care about them? It doesn’t mean I agree with it.

We have people like BananaBoy shrieking on HBB about how Obamaphones and union goons are the real reason America is struggling. LOL, if these people can’t look at the budget and interpret it, we’re never going to fix the big problems. They basically want us to save a few bucks here and there while defense contractors rob us blind and the top 1-2% rake in big tax breaks that distort the economy. In the end, these tax breaks make everyone worse off by destabilizing our infrastructure, families, and educational system. Everything turned into a business for private profit = lower quality of public goods = backbone of society is broken = eventually America no longer exists, except as a big shopping mall.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:32:15

If you know anyone who works for the gov/state/city/caltrans etc… you know how ripped of the tax payers get.

I heard from a probation officer it cost the state $20k per mo for one 15 yr old who is too young for jail. (in CA).

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-02-11 21:46:54

and what would it cost to force him into speaking English before he is released?

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 10:54:43

Check your math on the $900K in gains. I got $287K, which makes much more sense given your $250K losses and current state of being near broke.

Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 18:09:45

Bought at 250, sold at 860,
That be 610 in gains right right there
Darn that “new math”

Then 137 and 132 and 8 on the other homes I made $$ on.

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Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 18:16:22

Sorry forgot to include 610k in gains in CA. So 897k

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Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 18:19:43

Oh to relish in others misfortune
My son’s teacher tried to commit suicide; scored me a week’s worth of work out the dealio so its all good…

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Comment by rms
2013-02-11 20:19:45

“…tried to commit suicide…”

Failed at that too?

Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 21:29:54

hes back at work now with slashed up hands. Kids a bit freaked at that. Glad to have smaller problems.

Comment by cactus
2013-02-11 14:25:53

Bought in 05 for 150k sold in 06 for 287k
Bought in 05 for 208k sold in 06 for 350k
Bought in 09 for 117k sold in 13 for 125k (in escrow)
Gains: almost 900k

plus Bought in 95 for 250k,sold in 04 for860k

I think your big gain was Santa Barbra and the other gains Oregon ?

Not bad did you save any of it ?

Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 18:14:49

Lived on it and paid medical bills; have 100k saved. Enough for myself to pursue more education and stay licensed in teaching here in OR.

Yes the best gains were on the coast; but I could not continue my job driving thru Moorpark every Sunday to various markets in Montrose, Malibu, Pacific Palisades. Back did not like hucking veggies, loading trucks, surfing every day almost; so we decided we needed to leave CA. And knew we were not coming back.

Did have to pay some cap gains taxes though.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 18:23:41

You don’t mention that you didn’t create any wealth, just flipping houses. Somebody else paid for it, probably got foreclosed, taxpayers pick up the tab maybe. Multiply you by a few million and we can see why this country is in a hole. But you got yours, right?

Oh well, there’s a lot of sleazeballs associated with the housing bubble.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 18:54:34

Lying sleazeballs…. and they’re right here on this blog.

Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 19:34:01

Ban the sleazeballs like myself. Have yourself a rah rah we all agree conversation with your housing flunkies. It is your blog.

Did you not get the fact that I bought in 95 to live in the town I worked in, got hurt in 1998, and took advantage of appreciation and buying/selling houses to afford life and reeducate myself into a different field?. Plus I paid lots in cap gains tax, also paid for my own medical treatment and medications.

Start with the libelous RAL; who has no problem calling me a lying junkie in print.


Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 19:52:22

A little touchy, huh? I’ve told you this before, when you started bragging about all the money you’ve made flipping houses. Every penny came out of someones pocket. The CEO of Countrywide made a lot of money too. Did he create anything. or just got lucky? He’s probably sitting on a beach somewhere telling stories like yours. Bob Toll still has those Picaso’s on his wall. Should I sit around listening to him astound me with his good fortune? Or remind him of the people who lost millions on his crap-shacks?

I’ll say it again to you, because you apparently don’t remember. Every bit of the housing bubble money will have to come out of someone’s hide. And then when you add up all the related destruction to the economy, who can measure how many jobs and futures will be erased because of this thing? Don’t expect me to sit here and listen to you brag about what’s done so much damage to us all, without mentioning who really paid the price.

Comment by mikeinbend
2013-02-11 21:38:17

keep allowing Ral to post anecdotes without a single piece of data. Then Joe saying three pieces of anecdotal evidence does not data make; and that his dad got mega rich keeping his workers on welfare. 0 times 0 is also 0. Who has that helped besides Joe’s dad? Who hurt more lives? Cognitive dissonance alert! I am outie. For reals.

I paid lots of realtors and doctors wages; taxes too. That put food on someone’s table.

Life gave me lemons; didn’t want to get hurt and disfunctional. I sold those inflated lemons rather than holding on to the lemons while they rotted. Got into my first house to put a roof over my head. It appreciated. I am grateful for that. Is that OK??

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 22:23:41

‘ I sold those inflated lemons’

And walked away when one went south. Don’t try and pretend you’re some casual participant in this thing. ‘I paid lots of realtors and doctors wages; taxes too. That put food on someone’s table’ Yeah and Mozilo buys lot of limo service; think of the children!

‘Is that OK??’

What do you care what’s OK by me? You drift by here, whining about this or that, bitching about this blog and the people on it. Look in the mirror; you are the problem. And I don’t care if I ever see another post from you again.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 06:56:31

USA not number one:

“China surpassed the U.S. to become the world’s biggest trading nation last year as measured by the sum of exports and imports of goods, official figures from both countries show.

U.S. exports and imports of goods last year totaled $3.82 trillion, the U.S. Commerce Department said last week. China’s customs administration reported last month that the country’s trade in goods in 2012 amounted to $3.87 trillion.”


Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 09:50:25

So what happens to “the world’s factory” when it’s customers run out of cash and credit?

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:12:45

You do what every good car saleman does. You loan them monedy to buy your product!

Oh wait, they do that already.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:33:37

good point

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 06:57:55

On a serious note, I did our taxes yesterday and we clearly didn’t take on a big enough mortgage. We’re in year 2 of the mortgage but only paid $6000 in interest. Even in a high tax bracket, that isn’t helping much with the tax refund. :-(
(Note: I’m not complaining, we purposely bought cheaper than we could “afford” so that we could afford other things. I just think it’s perverse that we would’ve been subsidized by the U.S. taxpayers if we had taken on a 500-600k mortgage. Talk about bad tax policy…)

In other news, energy saving improvements are apparently capped at a $500 total tax credit across all tax years. Meaning, for most people this should NOT affect your home improvement spending at all. Spending thousands of dollars to get a $500 tax credit? Stupid. I got $470 tax credit last year when we replaced our furnace. Thus this year we only got a paltry $30 (!) when we replaced a door and a few windows. Of course, these were upgrades that were needed anyway and tax credits didn’t affect our decision at all.

What to take away from this tax policy? Instead of incentivizing rational people to make energy efficient improvements, all the credit really does is give marketing types a “selling tool”. And it enables people who can afford the upgrades to get $500 for upgrades they most likely would do anyway. Stupid policy. I wonder how many homedebtors get conned into doing unnecessary improvements because “you’ll be eligible for generous tax credit” that a) are capped and b) you might already have maxed out.

Sheep will get sheared.

Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:52:45

The most inefficient of all energy projects are not subject to this cap.

Solarpower improvements to your house…

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 08:27:11

“we purposely bought cheaper than we could “afford”….”

I believe you meant that you borrowed less than you could afford.

Sounds more oxymoronic that way.

Comment by Overtaxed
2013-02-11 09:20:08

“Talk about bad tax policy…”

Worst tax policy ever. Encourage huge debt to save on taxes; makes absolutely no sense at all. And this is coming from a huge beneficiary of this policy (close to 30K in deducible interest).

Comment by michael
2013-02-11 09:35:20

“Worst tax policy ever.”

tax policy?

more like the worst monetary policy ever. if it were not for the federal reserve the huge debt principal in order to maximize the benefit wouldn’t even be possible.

way to much focus on the MID IMHO but hey…the MSM is very successful at deflecting from the true problem.

Comment by Lip
2013-02-11 07:01:31

Wheels coming off, ObamaCare policies will cost more, cover far fewer than promised.

The central parts of ObamaCare don’t roll out until 2014, but the wheels are already falling off this clunker. The latest news from four federal agencies is that
1) insurance will be a lot less affordable than Americans were led to expect,
2) fewer people than promised will get insurance and
3) millions of people who have coverage through a job now will lose it, thanks to the president’s “reforms.”

Oh, and children are the biggest victims.


Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:54:13

Imagine if we could have read this bill before it was passed.

Actually had a rational debate on it?

Does not seem to be the way of the current “most transparent administration in history”

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 08:31:40

It wasn’t Obama’s bill at all. it was the insurance industry’s bill. He was simply paid to promote it.

Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:21:16

Been watching “House of Cards ” on Netflix. I think it’s dead on when it comes to big monied industries pushing around Congressmen.

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Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 08:09:02

I’m shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED!

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:17:26

Oh wait…


Carry on.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:41:05

yet, congress does nothing to improve health insurance reform. where are the ideas? the debates? the new bills?

what if Ford said, “here is a Mustang, OK you want to make it into a is a Pinto (congress), sorry we can make any changes.” You get that Pinto, complain about that Pinto all you want, but dont change anything, especially the location of the gas tank.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 07:05:27

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss:

“If President Obama tuned in to the past week’s bracing debate on Capitol Hill about terrorism, executive power, secrecy and due process, he might have recognized the arguments his critics were making: He once made some of them himself.

Four years into his tenure, the onetime critic of President George W. Bush finds himself cast as a present-day Mr. Bush, justifying the muscular application of force in the defense of the nation while detractors complain that he has sacrificed the country’s core values in the name of security.”


Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:18:52

WMDs: still don’t haz them.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:06:54

“Gramma, Grandpaw, what was it like living in the last days of the USA?”

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:11:52

“Well, son, first we had this ginormous housing bubble which only ordinary folks could see, as all the bigwig economists were completely blind to it.

Then only a few short years after a massive real estate crash in 2007, we had an echo bubble…”

Comment by goon squad
Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 07:15:07

I asked an old guy what it was like living in the Great Depression. His answer was that for him it was like any other time, he was a teenager.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:24:42

My grandfather, who was actually a civil engineer by trade, was hired by a bank (!!!) to co-ordinate relief efforts in the New York boroughs area. I guess because of his experience in logistics or something like that. My mother said they were one of the few families in their area who had telephone service at the time. The phone calls that used to come were from people begging blankets and food. She said it was gut-wrenching.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:39:02

If you didn’t see it already, you might enjoy the movie Cinderella Man, which was set in the NYC area during GD1.

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Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 07:47:25

Did see it, was awesome.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 08:13:19

I also thought “They Shoot Horses, Don’t They?” was another great GD-themed movie.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:37:24

My parents were both born on the eve of GD1 (’28, ‘29), out in the Midwestern countryside. A few tidbits were handed down to me over the years:

1) Their parents bought flour in burlap sacks, then saved the sacks to use as material for making undergarments (”flour sack drawers”).

2) Mom’s dad used his shotgun to bag ducks, squirrels and rabbits which ended up on the family dinner table, much to mom’s consternation.

3) Dad’s dad, a teacher in a one-room K-8 school, took a second job as a sales rep for a purveyor of tombstones.

4) Although they had no cash, life out in the countryside wasn’t bad, as they had food and close-knit community to carry them through hard times.

5) Dad’s mom clung to small seemingly worthless items, such as rubber bands or bits of string and cloth, “just in case” she ever would need them.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 07:44:33

“5) Dad’s mom clung to small seemingly worthless items, such as rubber bands or bits of string and cloth, “just in case” she ever would need them.”

My father in law does this. He’s from a very hardscrabble area of Greece where nothing was wasted, property was passed down for centuries, and things like fresh water, plumbing, electrity were not taken for granted (a couple km south of Sparta). He still can’t process that, in the 21st century, it doesn’t save him any money because it takes him hours to find anything he actually needs. And most of the things he has saved for 5-10 years can be purchased cheaper brand-new now.

On the flip side, while saving physical items doesn’t save him money, the mind-set that waste is evil is very helpful. Sometimes when I’ll propose a solution to a problem that I think is cost-efficient, he’ll undercut me by several orders of magnitude. And often he is right. So it’s a learning experience.

He reminds me of “the millionaire next door” if anyone has ever read that book. If you saw him around town you would think he was borderline homeless.

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Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 07:47:09

This so called depression we had was a cake walk in comparison imo. People were ashamed to get handouts in that era.

Nothing has really changed in this area. Still seeing commercial buildings vacant after 5 years. Seems like big lots bought up all the old circuit city lots. Still a lot of people out of work.

What really seemed to happen is that the wall street folks got levered up too much and those bets started to unwind. A lot of people realized they were holding some real dog sh@t on their books. The losses were so bad that in order to keep the system afloat they had to print a lot of money.

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Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 09:18:14

Still seeing commercial buildings vacant after 5 years ??

And likely will remain so….Amazon, UPS and the web have changed things permanently IMO…

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 09:34:40

But don’t expect the price to come down on any of that real estate.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:26:06

It’s not bad this time because of safety measures put into place because OF the GD.

All you have to do is look at the number to know it far, far worse than the GD1 and those safety measures are th only thing keeping the cities from burning.

But those measures are slowly but surely being whittled away and in fact, repeal of some of them was the very cause of our current mess.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:29:03

“look at the numbers” :roll:

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 14:35:02

That is why we humiliated all those big banks with handouts! We showed them!!! Next time, they make not ask for trillions!

Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 09:51:23

My mother’s came to Los Angeles from Shanghai on a tramp steamer in 1932. They thought things looked pretty good here.

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Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 09:55:25

…my mother’s *family* that is.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:31:09

Seen Shanghai lately?

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 11:07:59

5) Dad’s mom clung to small seemingly worthless items, such as rubber bands or bits of string and cloth, “just in case” she ever would need them.

My father, who lived through the depression, saved bent nails and the cardboard tubes from paper towels until the day he died; he was a millionaire too. Indelible experience.

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Comment by whirlyite
2013-02-11 13:04:39

My grandmother would wash and re-use aluminum foil.

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Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:23:39

Hehe…I reuse ziplock baggies.

Comment by polly
2013-02-11 14:05:37

I’m with you on that, Steve. If I use it to transport a sandwich to work, and the sandwich is wrapped in a paper towel, why would’t I reuse the bag?

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 14:36:40

“My grandmother would wash and re-use aluminum foil.”

So did mine, and she was chauffeured to school. (family was in alcohol biz)

Comment by aNYCdj
2013-02-11 21:51:46

I haven’t had a case of spaghetti wires in years since i put all my cables wires cords adapters in those ziplock bags…yeah i even labeled them too

Hehe…I reuse ziplock baggies.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:44:33

Just move to Cuba, snorkel, catch fish, sleep in hammock, dance, not much money needed at all. great music, beautiful women…. your choice… we all have the choice to leave.

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Comment by michael
2013-02-11 07:40:56

in the deep south…all my older relatives said they didn’t notice…things were just as bad then as they ever were.

“wall stree fail; we coudnt tell”.

Comment by HBB_Rocks
2013-02-11 08:55:31

My relatives noticed because the feds came through and shot and burned the majority of their livestock. Though I disagree, I understand why my grandfather hated both the feds and poor people.

Also, my other grandfather founded the local town bank, and my parents and older sisters and I were still small town outcasts because of grudges held about great depression property he foreclosed on - in the 1980s and 1990s.

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Comment by Rental Watch
2013-02-12 02:40:33

My partner has on his wall an old letter between one of his relatives and the Federal government about them having extra pigs on their property. The Feds were telling them to get rid of the extra hogs, they wanted to see if they could shift their allocation of hogs from one year to the next, etc.

Amazing. I don’t recall when the letters were written, but I seem to recall mid-century (if not earlier).

Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:55:20

We had freedom and we traded it away for government free cheese.

Now we have neither the cheese or our freedom.

“Gramma, Grandpaw, what was it like living in the last days of the USA?”

Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 09:19:57

+1.. 2-fruit

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 10:33:03

Several trillion to bail out Wall St. is a lot of cheese.

What? You didn’t get yours?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:25:07

Finding Nemo, before finding your portfolio drop.

While you were ‘Nemo’ watching, Goldman got a little bearish on equities
February 11, 2013, 7:07 AM

Investors and traders on the East Coast hit the road early last Friday to get out ahead of the storm. And while they were trudging home, Goldman Sachs was readying a stormish-call of its own.

In a note dated Feb. 8, which surfaced in some in-boxes on Monday, the investment bank cut its rating on global equities to neutral from overweight on a three-month horizon, citing some shakiness over the near-term view.

Essentially, Goldman says the equity market needs time to digest recent gains. Here is the long-winded version:

The potential for a strong rally from here is likely to be limited in the near term as U.S. equities are trading slightly above our estimates of current fair value given current economic conditions, and European equities only have upside to fair value if we assume that bond yields remain at the current very low levels.

The strategists say that over three months, the U.S. fiscal outlook and Europe sovereign situation remain downside risks. They are not looking for any sell-off to be “long-lived or particularly large,” but they are also not seeing much in the way of upside risks.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:26:22

Feb. 10, 2013, 7:45 a.m. EST
At the retail level, economy could stutter
Payroll tax hike might weigh on growth in January. Trouble ahead?
By Jeffry Bartash, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — We’re about to find out how consumers reacted to higher taxes and less take-home pay in January.

The U.S. government on Wednesday will release monthly retail sales. The result could tell us a lot about how the economy is likely to perform in early 2013.

Sales at U.S. retailers are forecast to edge up a scant 0.1%, seasonally adjusted, in the first month of the year, according to economists polled by MarketWatch. The retail report is by far the biggest economic indicator of the week.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 08:41:56

All of the money will continue to flow into the pockets of the 0.1%. The course of the channel in which it flows is irrelevant.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:27:35

Feb. 8, 2013, 7:58 p.m. EST
7 mutual funds to ride over the next fiscal cliff
By Jonathan Burton, MarketWatch

Just when you thought the U.S. was safely past the “fiscal cliff,” it turns out there’s another cliff the economy could tumble over.

The upcoming threat to economic growth is the “sequester,” a hefty bag of required government spending cuts slated to hit March 1 and continue in coming years. This latest bout of fiscal belt-tightening is sending ripples around the Beltway, as lawmakers look for ways to make more from less.

In the face of another all-out battle in Washington over the federal budget, MarketWatch used a screen from investment research firm Morningstar Inc. to find U.S. stock mutual-funds that could weather even the worst storms.

The search unearthed seven no-load funds that take less market risk than their peers, pay attention to taxes, and have earned the firm’s highest “gold” rating for overall quality. Said Adam Zoll, Morningstar’s assistant site editor: “These are highly rated, highly regarded funds that Morningstar analysts like a lot.”

Comment by oxide
2013-02-11 11:53:22

Can’t believe that this is a click-through slideshow. Dangit Marketwatch!

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 13:23:48

Click the print button to read MW articles single page.

Comment by Montana
2013-02-11 13:46:52


Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:28:35

Feb. 11, 2013, 9:22 a.m. EST
G-7 reportedly weighs issuing currency statement
By William L. Watts

FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — News reports on Monday said officials from the Group of Seven nations continue to weigh the possiblity of issuing a statement aimed at averting a so-called currency war. A pair of officials from the Group of 20 told Reuters that a G-7 statement could be released ahead of the meeting of G20 finance ministers and central bankers in Moscow on Friday and Saturday, Reuters reported. The Wall Street Journal on Saturday reported that officials from the G-7 nations — the U.S., Canada, Japan, U.K., Germany, France and Italy — had been in talks last week over a possible statement. Reuters said the G-20 officials said any statement would likely reaffirm a previous commitment to market-determined exchange rates.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 10:37:05

Apparently this open discussion of averting a currency war gives gold bugs a case of the heebie-jeebies.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:30:07

Good luck with this plan after the fly-by-night all-cash investors eventually race for the exit.

Will your house pay for your retirement?

February 7, 2013, 2:50 PM
By Matthew Heimer

You sell your home at a huge profit, then use the proceeds to upgrade your golden years from comfy to plush. That scenario, which might have seemed realistic when the housing boom was at a full-throated roar, seems a little starry-eyed today with home values still depressed. But according to a survey released this week by Ameriprise Financial, 47% of people aged 50 to 70 “expect to use their home equity to help fund their retirement.” The pollsters say that share appears to have risen significantly since before the recession, even though housing prices declined in the interim.

Comment by vinceinwaukesha
2013-02-11 08:39:54

My experience with elderly relations has been much more along the lines of “You sell your home at a huge profit, then give the proceeds to the nursing home, which has a long term budget relying on this income stream”. That and medical-related bills. By medical-related, I mean medicare will cover your direct doc bills, no it will not cover taxi service to the dr because you can’t drive anymore…

I do wonder about the boomers nursing home experience. First, socially, the transition from “The Lawrence Welk show” to Zepplin and the Doors is going to be pretty jarring for all sides. Secondly the homes depended on a continuous stream of real estate sales “windfall” income… what happens to the nursing homes when that income stream dries up completely?

Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 09:23:12

what happens to the nursing homes when that income stream dries up completely ??

Soylent Green ??

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 09:38:18

When we worked at Big Firm we prepared Medicaid and Medicare cost reports for bootstrapping, for-profit, invisible hand of free market skilled nursing facilities.

Our goal was to maximize the flow of taxpayer money to the 1% owners. The basic reimbursement calculation is based on “bed days” or the number of days per year a bed in the facility was occupied (note the facility also pays a “bed tax” for each bed on an annual basis, regardless of occupancy). Bed days are calculated against the RUGs (resource utilization group) scores of individuals within the resident population. Higher RUGs score means sicker and more dependant, and receives more government cheese.

At Big Firm, we had nurses and former nursing home directors on staff. If the RUGs scores were coming in too low, we’d send them out to re-diagnose the residents to get them re-scored higher.

The income stream will not be drying up. Not when so many of the 1%er producers rely on government cheese for their incomes.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 09:59:12

We’re defending 2 of these bootstrapping Medicare middle-men (management contractors) now. In qui tam claims, which means that employees (usually disgruntled former employees) bring info to the gov’t and try to get the gov’t to pursue an action for fraud.

The gov’t usually does *not* pursue the action for fraud. Leaving the relator (person who raise the original complaint) to pursue it for themselves. If they win, they get a cut of the money the gov’t recoups.

Usually the relator has very little chance of getting anything. The Big Boyz contractors go and hire a big azz law firm that can play serve-and-volley with tons of discovery (burying useful items in a mountain of innocuous ones). It can take years for these things to go away, costing everyone a ton of money. But the basic rule is, if you can convince the government (CMS usually) not to join the relator’s suit, you’ve won because you can just overpower to less-resourced law firm with brute volume.

Comment by tresho
2013-02-11 10:06:23

you’ve won because you can just overpower to less-resourced law firm with brute volume.
I think the term for that is “lawfare”.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 12:24:24

Rule of law?

Golden rule of law! :lol:

But I’ll bet less regulation will fix it!!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-02-11 09:58:10

My experience with elderly relations has been much more along the lines of “You sell your home at a huge profit, then give the proceeds to the nursing home, which has a long term budget relying on this income stream”.

Which is why Mom is clinging to the family manse with her life.

I’ve been of the mind that the place ought to be sold to a younger family, but guess what. Mom won’t be the one doing that. I will be.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 09:05:09

From the article:

“the fact that more are approaching retirement with mortgage debt.”

This is true. Why? Because tens of millions of people who don’t know the value of a dollar paid a grossly inflated price for a rapidly depreciating asset.

If you think $200k for a 2000sq ft ranch is a bargain, you don’t know the value of a dollar.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 07:31:23

Hope and Change

“There are many ways of striking it rich in Brazil, but one strategy may come as a particular surprise in today’s economic climate: securing a government job.

While civil servants in Europe and the United States have had their pay slashed or jobs eliminated altogether, some public employees in Brazil are pulling down salaries that put their counterparts in developed countries to shame.

As Brazil’s once-booming economy stalls, these “super salaries,” as they have become known here, are feeding newfound resentment over inequality in the nation’s unwieldy bureaucracies.”


Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:57:52

Civil servants in the United States had their pat SLASHED?

Where? When?

Comment by scdave
Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 10:09:51

ricky perry is coming to cali to get some business out to tx. The liberal machine hasnt hit tx yet.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 10:21:28

When SillyValley tech vacates, which it will, TX is as good as place as any others to locate to.

There’s gonna be some mighty long faces in SillyValley. :mrgreen:

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 11:00:15

My Silly Valley colleagues tell me that tech hiring is going like gangbusters there, with headhunters constantly trying to poach people, whereas in lower cost, low tax Colorado hiring is much tamer.

Predictions of the Valley’s demise might be premature.

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Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 11:18:30

All in good time.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 12:10:52

I think “In Colorado” is right. VC’s are not going to be moving to TX. Imagine someone like Tim Draper. And then try to imagine him in Texas. Not happening. I could go right down the list, guys like Marc Andreeson, etc.

Same thing for Fred Wilson–no way someone like that relocates from Manhattan to Texas.

These guys are the ones that can fund the “next big thing”. Network effects dictate that if you want to get funded like the next big thing, you better be really close to your money men.

Comment by Ben Jones
2013-02-11 12:20:59

‘VC’s are not going to be moving to TX’

When I worked for an Austin dotcom in the 90’s, I had meetings with some of these guys. Some were from California, others lived in Texas.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 12:21:32

They won’t have a choice.

The fact that it’s “impossible” makes it most likely to occur. I’d say it’s imminent.

Comment by eight pieces of chicken
2013-02-11 12:55:02

Today’s VC’s have offices all over the world and fund projects everywhere. But nope, they will not fund in Texas.

Who argues like that?

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 13:07:58

“Who argues like that?”

Liars, realtards, house pimps, debt junkies, etc.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 13:23:01

“Today’s VC’s have offices all over the world and fund projects everywhere. But nope, they will not fund in Texas. ”

No one said that there would be no funding in other states. But the fact remains, network effects are extremely powerful. Yes, property in Manhattan adn Sil Valley is overpriced. However, there are good reasons that the biggest deals for new tech will still involve NorCal and Manhattan.

It’s the same reason that the biggest law firms (by litigation volume or dela volume) are still in rather tight geographical windows. Could some of them move out into Virginia or across the Hudson to NJ (say, Hoboken)? Yes. Do they? No. Same thing in London or any other world city. The firms cluster around each other. At the highest levels of dealmaking, personal contact is still important. Yes, a lot of nameless/faceless work can easily be ported around the world, people can work from home, etc. But this is not how major business decisions are made.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 14:00:36

There’s more harpsichord music than reality and I think you know it.

As SillyValley firms mature(commoditize), they’ll go elsewhere.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 14:04:39

Business culture is also still important. TX is pretty big on PE. Not nearly so much on VC. Not saying they don’t have any at all, just that the legal and banking culture there is not as familiar with the ins and outs of VC. The legal frameworks of some states are also advantageous to certain types of deals. Even if it costs more to raise a round in one state versus another, many of the big players only want to operate where there are predictable outcomes if K terms ever require litigation or mediation. These guys are after outsized returns, they are not going to be detered by a few % one way or the other in terms of taxes. Moreover, fed taxes are the big issue anyway and these guys already know how to play the fed tax game. They use the same Mitten-y tactics that House GOP leaders ruthlessly defend (I’m looking at you, Paul Ryan).

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 23:10:57

As SillyValley firms mature(commoditize), they’ll go elsewhere.

That’s been happening for decades, and yet Silly Valley is still there and houses there are more expensive than ever.

Comment by Rental Watch
2013-02-12 02:57:28

My wife is an attorney that does a lot of VC work. One day, she noted how some employment agreement from a prior employer for some entrepreneur in a different state prohibited them from all sorts of activities–that were only marginally related to the business they wanted to start.

She said that there is no way in hell that would happen in CA–such employment agreements are not legal here. The laws here are very favorable toward people wanting to leave their jobs to start a business.

You’ve got a legal environment that is pro-entrepreneur, lots of money, lots of experience starting companies, a willingness to take risk on new ideas, very good colleges around (Berkeley and Stanford, among others), and the existing network of established, successful tech professionals.

Many places have tried to replicate Silicon Valley…none have yet succeeded to any substantial degree. That is why, at last count, 40% of all venture dollars invested in the US land in Silicon Valley. Next closest are New England at 12%, and NYC at 12%. LA/Orange County/San Diego are another 10% or so (taking CA to 50% of all venture dollars invested). Texas is at 3%.

PWC (in conjunction with the National VC Association) puts out a MoneyTree Report quarterly with all the data. The numbers above are from their Q4 2012 Investments by Region information.

Comment by nickpapageorgio
2013-02-11 20:47:02

“The liberal machine hasnt hit tx yet.”

They’re everywhere, they spread like locusts consuming everything their path.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 10:23:15

The only downside is that you have to live in Texas.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-02-11 10:45:47

Recall General Sherman’s words about the choice between living in hell and Texas. He said he’d prefer to live in hell and rent Texas.

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 11:01:44

I’ve lived in Texas and I understand the General’s sentiment. I have nothing but bad memories of the place.

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Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 10:50:48

Exactly Colorado….I don’t think the CEO’s in Portola Valley intend on moving to Texas any time soon…

Comment by eight pieces of chicken
2013-02-11 12:18:35

CEO’s don’t have to, but majority of company can still move.

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Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 14:57:40

When they no longer need the top talent, sure. When, as Pimp Watch says, they are commodities.

Of course, the VC’s can pretend to live in a low-tax state, much like Bill in LA. Or like Mittens, who has houses in 7 (?) states and keeps his money in the Jersey Island and Caymans.

VC’s are the big boyz. They’re not fighting over a few buckz here and there. To stay on top they need to be in NYC, DC, SF, etc. I’m not saying it’s “right”, but it is reality.

What’s your next idea, that Goldman Sachs and Watchell Lipton Rosen & Katz type firms will decamp to low-tax FL? They’d rather die and you’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Firms like those won’t even consider moving a few blocks to a lower-rent building, much less moving to a different state.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2013-02-11 20:13:27

Nice to be in the same sentence as “Mittens.”

Who is holding you back by gunpoint from doing the same thing?

Anyone can have several houses in different states. Do you expect the owner to pay 7 different state income taxes, which would most likely be higher than the federal tax rate? Golly gee.

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 13:01:59

Texas is very business friendly.

Not so employee friendly though.

Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:28:09

Why all the hate for Texas?

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:47:15

I blame Perry.

Comment by Avocado
2013-02-11 13:59:41

Is it hate, or just a matter of having standards and a brain?

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 15:16:33

Like I said, I lived there once and have nothing but bad memories of the place. It would be very hard to get me to move back there.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2013-02-11 20:53:31

Because everyone believes it’s a bible thumping state.

But it “ain’t” necessarily so.


Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 07:40:26


“It is no secret that young voters tilt left on social issues like immigration and gay rights. But these students, and dozens of other young people interviewed here last week, give voice to a trend that is surprising pollsters and jangling the nerves of Republicans. On a central philosophical question of the day — the size and scope of the federal government — a clear majority of young people embraces President Obama’s notion that it can be a constructive force, a point he intends to make in his State of the Union address on Tuesday.

Under-30 voters are “the only age group in which a majority said the government should do more to fix problems,” the nonpartisan Pew Research Center reported in November.


Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:59:48

And then they they get jobs and get married.

Any they slowly become rational again.

Especially when they figure out how little they get for giving up 50-60% of their money to the government (on all levels).

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 10:45:12

Lots of people in my generation are neither getting married nor having children. And many that are having children aren’t getting married. This is reality, whether you think it is good or bad.

Whether or not you realize it, that is a big problem for your hopes.

Your other problem is that people 55+ and 65+ were the only groups that turned out for your boy Mittens. A lot of these people will not be with or 4 or 8 yrs from now. Mittens dominated with them, they are the only reasons the election was moderately competitive (even though it wasn’t that close).

Comment by Spook
2013-02-11 12:01:16

joe smith

Lots of people in my generation are neither getting married nor having children. And many that are having children aren’t getting married. This is reality, whether you think it is good or bad.

Hitler chimes in on it:


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Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 15:20:57

Plus as mentioned before, the ones having the kids are the lucky duckies.

Better get ready to move offshore, cabanaboy. The future in the USA is looking less and less “red state” with each day that passes.

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Comment by Ryan
2013-02-11 08:13:28

Low information voters?

Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:29:38

Helicopter Parents strike again.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:43:04

It looks to me like Mr Market is trying to sell off today, despite the Marketwatch headline…but what do I know?

Feb. 11, 2013, 9:12 a.m. EST · CORRECTED
Stock futures edge up; Google in spotlight
Google chairman plans to halve stake in company
By William L. Watts, MarketWatch

An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated the amount Google shares were down in premarket action. The story has been corrected.

FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock futures edged higher Monday as investors awaited the battle over the budget sequester and found themselves forced to pay attention to Europe’s long-running debt crisis.

So far, the debate has done little to blunt the market’s rise. The S&P 500 Index SPX -0.22% rose 0.3% last week to end at 1,517.93. The Dow industrials DJIA -0.28% saw a 0.1% weekly loss to end at 13,992.97 after earlier this month breaching the 14,000 level for the first time since 2007.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:44:17

What has global stock market investors’ undies in bunches today?

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 07:45:30

Feb. 10, 2013, 11:27 p.m. EST
Credit-reporting agencies breaking law: report
By Michael Kitchen

LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) — The current dispute-resolution systems at the three main consumer-credit-rating agencies used in the U.S. are violating the law, CBS reported Sunday on its “60 Minutes” television program. The report cited what it said were widespread mistakes with individuals’ credit reports, focusing on the industry’s three main firms: Equifax Inc. EFX -1.39% , Irish-based Experian PLC UK:EXPN -1.19% and unlisted TransUnion Corp. The report included an interview with Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, who said the industry was violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act by failing to adequately address mistakes in people’s credit records. “I think they’re breaking the law. There is no doubt in my mind that they are breaking the law,” DeWine told CBS in an interview, according to a transcript. The “60 Minutes” report cited an industry lobbyist as saying 95% of customers of the credit-reporting agencies were satisfied with the dispute process used to address such mistakes.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 08:43:55

Credit score = I love debt stoopid score

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 13:31:38

You have a credit score whether you have debt or not.

But you know that, right? :lol:

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 13:30:10

Yet somehow their reports have a force of law when comes to jobs, shelter and medicine.

But, I’ll bet less regulation will fix it!

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-11 07:46:45

Got precious?

“When Vladimir Putin says the U.S. is endangering the global economy by abusing its dollar monopoly, he’s not just talking. He’s betting on it.

Not only has Putin made Russia the world’s largest oil producer, he’s also made it the biggest gold buyer. His central bank has added 570 metric tons of the metal in the past decade, a quarter more than runner-up China, according to IMF data compiled by Bloomberg.

“The more gold a country has, the more sovereignty it will have if there’s a cataclysm with the dollar, the euro, the pound or any other reserve currency,” Evgeny Fedorov, a lawmaker for Putin’s United Russia party in the lower house of parliament, said in a telephone interview in Moscow.


Comment by 2banana
2013-02-11 07:49:52

Imagine if there was an organization that you would be forced to join as a condition of employment,

Imagine if you had to pay dues to this organization without your consent and the money was already taken out of your paycheck before you even received it.

Now imagine this organization had near carte-blanch power to raise the property taxes on your house to any level they deemed appropriate to pay for their insane salaries, benefits and pensions.

Now imagine that this same organization could use violence to achieve the political goals and could not be sued or be subject to RICO laws by Supreme Court Decision.

Now imagine that personnel this same organization who conduct this violence get caught on video and, even then, are given barely a slap on the wrist.

Now imagine if this organization gave 100% of its money and support to republicans.

What then would the liberals/progressives call this organization?


Goon City: Philadelphia construction unions aren’t big on brotherly love.
National Review | FEBRUARY 11, 2013 | Jillian Kay Melchior

The engineer’s wife caught his brutal beating on camera.

Just seconds before, the couple had arrived at the open-shop construction site in downtown Philadelphia, walking past the cluster of union protesters who had congregated outside the fence.

As the engineer tried to enter the site through a tiny gap between a chain-link fence and a stone wall, the protesters rushed him, pressing the fence against his body and pinning him. The engineer shouted out, then howled, clutching the fence with both hands. His cries grew hysterical as he thrashed, first trying to escape, and then simply trying to shield himself. When the aggressors finally relented, he crumpled to the ground and passed out.

“It was terrifying,” the engineer tells me, asking to remain unnamed for fear of union retaliation. “I was concerned that if they pushed a little harder, my head would be crushed. Even after I was on the ground the Civil Affairs cop came up. Who knows what they would have done if he hadn’t been there?”

The engineer’s assault was caught on tape. But despite being charged with simple assault, reckless endangerment of another person, and conspiracy simple assault, two union members, Ryan P. Stewart and Philip J. Garraty, each got off with a $200.50 fine and 18 hours of community service.

Comment by scdave
2013-02-11 09:30:05

The engineer’s assault was caught on tape. But despite being charged with simple assault, reckless endangerment of another person, and conspiracy simple assault, two union members, Ryan P. Stewart and Philip J. Garraty, each got off with a $200.50 fine and 18 hours of community service ??

If that happened around here they both would have gotten a Felony assault conviction…

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 12:27:48

Is Lynn Abraham still the D.A. in Philadelphia?

If so, that would explain a lot.

Comment by joe smith
2013-02-11 15:00:38

I just checked. Apparently the reign of Lynn Abraham ended a few years ago. She was, however, the DA of Philadelphia for 20 years… wow, just wow. The Philly Dem party basically gave her a life appointment. I’m shocked she didn’t die in office.

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Comment by michael
2013-02-11 15:14:14


Comment by Steve J
2013-02-11 13:31:59

Gosh Bannana, I never realized unions were the Devil. Thanks for convincing me!

Comment by ecofeco
2013-02-11 13:32:48

“Imagine if there was an organization that you would be forced to join as a condition of employment,”

I don’t have to imagine. It’s called “the company”.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 13:56:59

“Imagine if there was an organization that you would be forced to join as a condition of employment,”

A friend’s wife had to become a member of the communist party just to attend University for her EE degree. This was back before the Berlin wall fell.

Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 07:52:27

About time to pay that $187 property tax bill again. For the YEAR…

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 07:55:27

That’s sweet. You typical homedebtor in the northeast? $10k…. year after year and it only goes up. Never down.

Comment by palmetto
2013-02-11 08:06:19

In Cali? Good on ya, cobber!

Comment by In Colorado
2013-02-11 10:21:04

IIRC, Carl lives in a trailer park in Boulder, CO

Comment by eight pieces of chicken
2013-02-11 12:15:34

I thought he lived in Sunnyvale Trailer Park.


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Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 14:15:31


Comment by Carl Morris
2013-02-11 14:17:28

Of course that’s only on the trailer. The tax for the land comes out of my $300/mo lot rent…

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 14:43:02

Mine is $94 once every three years. The taxes on my dock come out of my $1,000 a year.

Comment by CRATER!!!!
2013-02-11 09:28:49


That was the echo of cratering housing prices in random towns across the US.

Comment by Resistor
2013-02-11 13:35:15

The repo man was on the block today.

Comment by ahansen
2013-02-11 16:24:08

I don’t know why this always cracks me up so much, but it does. HBB’s own little Leroy Jenkins.


Comment by aNYCdj
Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 09:43:10

This notion of “retirement” is starting to get over-pimped once again.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2013-02-11 09:59:47

Aw, come on, be a sport. The financial industry needs us to invest, er, SAVE, for retirement.

And if the concept of retirement isn’t hyped to the sky, where is the retail investment money going to come from?

Comment by azdude
2013-02-11 10:12:02

I doubt I will ever retire. I’m certainly not banking on wall street to make that happen.

Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 10:14:57

“I doubt I will ever retire.”

At least some of us are realistic.

You might be able to meet your needs only if you didn’t pay massively inflated prices plus interest for depreciating assets, i.e., houses.

Comment by Blue Skye
2013-02-11 14:44:14

It helps to need little and owe nothing.

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Comment by hazard
2013-02-11 14:57:58

“It helps to need little and owe nothing.”

Saw a drawing of an old scruffy dude sitting in a chair with his elbow on the arm of the chair and his hand holding his chin up. The caption read…..

I don`t know nothin
I don`t owe nothin
I don`t own nothin
So I`m perfectly hasppy

Comment by hazard
2013-02-11 15:02:38

happy but now that I look at it haspy wouldn`t be a bad word. I looked it up and…..

Haspy birday - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_62aglSdwUs - 118k -

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 15:01:08

FWIW, Marketplace has recently updated their interactive map of underwater mortgages by state. Interesting browsing.


Comment by Pimp Watch
2013-02-11 15:52:57

Wow. CA beats Michagin in foreclosure rate. LMAO

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 17:54:15

Says the CA housing price index is 43.2 percent off peak and one in 43 homes are in foreclosure.

Sadly, there are no homes on the market, or we might consider taking advantage of that supposed 43.2 percent off-peak discount.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 18:04:04

Perhaps the correct statement is “one in 43 CA mortgages in foreclosure”?

With 6,784,724 mortgages, that comes out to 6,784,724/43 = 157,784 homes in foreclosure. With about 3m of 38m Californians in San Diego, a rough share of these foreclosures in San Diego, assuming uniform rates across the state, would be
157,784*(3/38) = 12,457, which seems like an interesting figure compared to the 182 MLS-listed foreclosure homes listed on Redfin’s site.

Maybe San Diego has a far lower foreclosure rate than the rest of the state? Or is it just that these homes don’t show up on the MLS?

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Comment by Rental Watch
2013-02-12 03:10:03

What does “1/43 in foreclosure” mean? The numbers always seem a little goofy to me. The data is supposedly from Realty Trac, and is the number of homes that receive a foreclosure filing during the month.

Is that the initial filing only? Or any filing?

These numbers don’t relate at all to how many homes are trapped in the process…Florida may have relatively few new filings, but a TON of homes that got a filing before and are trapped in the process…

In any event, your logic on the 12,457 makes sense to me…however, Foreclosure Radar notes less than 1,000 NOD’s filed in December in all of San Diego County…how do these two numbers reconcile?

My guess is that the less than 1,000 number is how many NOD’s are starting the process, and the 12,500 roughly are the total IN the process (that may have more than one filing as they go through the process).

This also tracks with Foreclosure Radar, that lists in SD County (rough numbers):
4,500 homes in preforeclosure
4,200 homes scheduled for sale
3,400 that are REO

Comment by hazard
2013-02-11 16:26:43

Protect and to Serve?

Posted: 10:00 a.m. Monday, Feb. 11, 2013

Woman found dead in jail dragged deputy with car, tried to bite him during DUI arrest, report says

By Alexandra Seltzer

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

A woman who would have turned 52 today died Sunday night while being held in the Palm Beach County Jail.

The suburban West Palm Beach woman’s name is being withheld by the Palm Beach Post because a sheriff’s spokeswoman said deputies had not reached the woman’s next of kin.

The woman was booked into the jail Saturday morning on charges of DUI, resisting an officer with violence and assault on an officer or firefighter.

When booked into the jail, she was taken to the infirmary because of medical problems. In her mugshot, her left eye is almost swollen shut and blood appears to be around and possibly in her left nostril.

Sunday night, while a nurse was making rounds, the woman was found unresponsive, said Palm Beach County Sheriff’s spokeswoman Teri Barbera.

After CPR attempts, the woman died around 8:30 last night.

A spokesman for the medical examiner’s office said Monday afternoon the cause of death could take weeks to determine as toxicology testing will be conducted by an outside lab.

The woman was driving a red Toyota around 4:30 a.m. Saturday when she was allegedly seen speeding near Lantana Road and South State Road 7.

A deputy parked his patrol car in the middle of the road to try to prevent other vehicles from entering South State Road 7 because of the speeding car. As the woman approached the intersection, the deputy stepped off the roadway out of the path of her vehicle, according to a sheriff’s probable cause affidavit.

After almost hitting another vehicle, the woman abruptly stopped her car. When the deputy approached her, she started cursing and screaming at him, then stepped on the gas. Reaching into the car in an attempt to stop it, the deputy was dragged before he was finally able to put it in park.

In the process, the woman allegedly tried biting the deputy’s right arm.

In response, “I delivered an elbow strike to the right side of her face,” the deputy wrote in the affidavit.

Two deputies had to cut the woman out of the seat belt while she screamed and cursed at them and EMS crews.

Another deputy came to the scene to conduct a DUI investigation. The woman — whom the deputy described as wearing a multi-colored flowered dress with flip flops and her hair in a “mess” — refused to give a blood test.

When the deputy tried examining her eyes, she closed them and didn’t let anyone check her, the affidavit says.

The woman told deputies that she doesn’t drink alcohol nor take drugs. She said she takes several different medications for bipolar disorder.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 16:31:46

ft dot com
Last updated: February 11, 2013 9:09 pm
Vice-chair of Fed urges focus on jobs
By Robin Harding in Washington

One of the US Federal Reserve’s most senior officials said it should concentrate on boosting jobs in a hint that monetary policy will stay loose.

With inflation low and unemployment high, “it is entirely appropriate for progress in attaining maximum employment to take centre stage in determining the [Federal Open Market] Committee’s policy stance,” said Janet Yellen, the Fed’s vice-chair, in a speech at a conference in Washington on Monday.

The speech by Ms Yellen, who is regarded as one of the most dovish policy makers on the rate-setting FOMC, gave no sign that she is backing away from continued asset purchases.

The FOMC is split on how long to maintain its third round of quantitative easing, known as QE3, under which it is buying $85bn a month of mortgage-backed securities and Treasury bonds in an effort to drive down long-term interest rates.

The Fed says it will keep buying assets until there is a substantial improvement in the labour market but it has not defined what that means, and some policy makers are concerned that there are costs and risks to buying more and more assets.

Ms Yellen argued that high unemployment in the US – today’s rate is 7.9 per cent, four years into the economic recovery – reflects weak demand rather than any structural problem. If unemployment is not structural then the Fed can ease monetary policy without pushing up inflation.

She argued that “a broad-based cyclical shortage of demand is the main cause of today’s elevated unemployment rate” and that any problems with labour market functioning “are likely to be substantially resolved as the broader economy improves and ­bolsters the demand for labour”.

Ms Yellen emphasised the damage done by a weak labour market.

“When you’re unemployed for six months or a year, it is hard to qualify for a lease, so even the option of relocating to find a job is often off the table,” she said. “The toll is simply terrible on the mental and physical health of workers, on their ­marriages, and on their children.”

She said that, despite big budget deficits, fiscal policy has not done much to support the US economy during this recovery.

“In the year following the end of the recession, discretionary fiscal policy at the federal, state and local levels boosted growth at roughly the same pace as in past recoveries,” she said.

“But instead of contributing to growth thereafter, discretionary fiscal policy this time has actually acted to restrain the recovery. State and local governments were cutting spending and, in some cases, raising taxes for much of this period to deal with revenue shortfalls.”

That reflects the scale of the recession and the difficulty in agreeing on further stimulus measures after 2009.

Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower©
2013-02-11 17:39:40

The Fed is all-in forever now.

Good thing they have absolute control over long-term rates.

Yellen Signals Fed Would Sustain Easing After Ending QE
By Craig Torres & Jeanna Smialek - Feb 11, 2013 2:57 PM PT

The Federal Reserve may keep interest rates near zero after its bond-buying ends, even after hitting its targets for unemployment or inflation, in order to maintain stimulus, Vice Chairman Janet Yellen signaled.

Yellen’s comments today coincide with a Federal Open Market Committee debate over when to bring its bond purchase program to an end, a shift that may prompt expectations of an interest-rate increase. The FOMC said in December it will hold the main interest rate in a range of zero to 0.25 percent so long as inflation isn’t forecast to rise to more than 2.5 percent in one to two years and unemployment exceeds 6.5 percent.

The speech by the Fed vice chairman “reminds people that if they are successful and if they get to their unemployment objective that doesn’t automatically mean they are going to slam on the brakes,” said Dominic Konstam, head of interest rate research at Deutsche Bank AG in New York. As “better data come out, they want to make sure the market doesn’t want to get carried away” and anticipate a boost in interest rates.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 21:01:46

The Navy SEAL who says he killed Osama bin Laden is unemployed and waiting for disability benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs.


Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2013-02-11 21:41:21

The 47 percent expect a deal to be struck!

Wall Street survey: Sequester likely, will take stock market toll
By Peter Schroeder - 02/11/13 02:17 PM ET

Most market professionals do not believe the White House and Congress will strike a deal to avoid automatic spending cuts, and the stock market will pay the price as a result.

A survey of money managers from the Potomac Research Group reveals split opinion among the investing world about the future of the nation’s fiscal policy. Fifty-three percent of respondents expect sequester cuts to take effect beginning March 1, while 47 percent believe a deal will be struck in time to avoid them.

The financial industry is also divided when it comes to the impact of those cuts if they occur, as 51 percent of the 55 respondents believe the Dow Jones Industrial Average would drop at least 5 percent if the sequester occurs. Another 42 percent believe the stock market would experience little to no change if those billions of dollars’ worth of cuts take effect.

The respondents are much more optimistic about avoiding a government shutdown, due to arrive when the government’s continuing resolution expires March 27. Just 15 percent of those surveyed are anticipating a government shutdown, as the overwhelming majority believes both parties can strike a funding compromise to keep the government’s doors open.

While many investment professionals see long odds in a government shutdown, they are united on the havoc it would wreak on the stock market. Eighty-two percent of those surveyed believe a government shutdown would drop the Dow by at least five percent.

Despite those looming threats to financial stability, those surveyed overall had a rosy perspective when it came to the financial markets going into 2013. Asked to rate their optimism on U.S. markets on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being extremely optimistic), 70 percent fell on the more optimistic side of the scale, and 13 percent were dead center at a rating of 5. However, no one surveyed said they were as optimistic as possible, while 2 percent said they did have the gloomiest view.

Comment by rms
2013-02-11 22:49:45

Well you have to admit that each month we are treated to another “Irwin Allen” cliff hanger only to be rescued by “a little known clause” or some accounting trick only used for crisis situations, so the 47% are probably correct. Eventually the bag of tricks will run empty, and all hell will be unleashed. Westernized teletubbies are not poised for the short, nasty and brutish fight that’s looming when this all goes wrong.

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-12 19:47:27

Obama is a marxist tyrant. The State of the USSA address confirms this. See above post about “the Gulag Archipelago” to see what you have to look forward to under this multiculti, coastal-elitist controlled, “our differences only make us stronger”.

If you are white, working class or middle class, living outside of the coasts, kill yourself now, and drown your kidz in the bathtub. The libtard bedwetter coastal elitists are bringing 50 million illiterate Latin American lumpenproles to your nabe soon. And if you are a black American, bend over and take it up the a$$ again after getting it for 400 years from Whitey, as the sonz of Aztlan outbreed you and beat and intimidate you out of your neighborhood.

If you don’t want your neighborhood to be a third-world sh*thole, you are a Racist. And if you are black, and don’t like the Mexcrement destroying your neighborhood, STFU and get in the back of the bus, cus the coastal elitists will decide what’s best for you, not you.

Cultural relativism is a mental disease (yes, borrowing Michael Savage’s phrase). Why is it Racist to oppose turning the USA into a third-world sh*thole?

Comment by goon squad
2013-02-12 19:53:27

SOTU: you will love your new neighbors living 20 people in a 3BR house with vehicles parked on the lawn. Learn it, love it, live it.

The race to the bottom = learn to live like the Mexcrement or drop dead.

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